00:01:45.480what i'm going to describe as putting in the category of the mask slipping which is always
00:01:52.720It's the type of news article that I find particularly helpful in forming the correct narrative.
00:02:00.480And this is the leader of the UK Conservative Party, the British Conservatives, colloquially referred to, I think truthfully, as the oldest political party in the world.
00:02:42.600mainstream media it is both growing very well read um and right-leaning so in this interview
00:02:51.260the the the the future hopeful Tory the next Tory Prime Minister not um basically said
00:03:02.900that Orban's defeat gave her hope for the centre-right and that's why I say this is the mask
00:03:10.340slipping um because of course anyone who studied victor orban's agenda will realize it was pretty
00:03:18.800center-right uh in most respects i think um apart from the perhaps the immigration issue
00:03:29.200uh which i i always insist is traditionally a left-wing issue rather than than a far-right
00:03:35.320issue um but with the the wholesale abandonment of the traditional left by the traditional left
00:03:41.640it's been the realignment of of politics has left it for the the far right to take on the
00:03:48.120immigration issue victor albert was also pretty strong on the traditional family values on the
00:03:53.160lgbt front and put apart from that if you look at the things that his financing of conservative
00:03:59.040movements around the world via the mcc and what have you these weren't they weren't bringing in
00:04:06.000people who were commonly known as far writers they were sort of broadly conservative intellectuals
00:04:12.000and so so for for kemi to come here and say that she thinks his defeat um gives her hope for the
00:04:21.600center right and you want to explain exactly what she said and what she said i i think is an
00:04:26.440indication that the toy party has nothing sent to write about it is really just a globalist
00:04:32.420chapter a chapter of the global the international globalist elite and there's no real pretense of it
00:04:38.840being anything other than that anymore um tell tell me peter what did she say and what was she
00:04:45.860trying to pitch to axel springer well this is perplexing and ben i think you've got it buying
00:04:53.940on the money the mask is slipping and she i mean victor orban i'm sure he wouldn't have been able
00:04:59.640to stand as a conservative party candidate in the uk he would have been far too extreme far too
00:05:03.820conservative and for a liberal so-called conservative party in the uk i give kind of
00:05:10.020give kemi a little bit of leeway simply because she didn't wasn't there right at the beginning0.99
00:05:15.320of cameron's time in 2010 she came in what 2017 2018 me in 2019 and she was dropped into a safe
00:05:22.980And I used to watch her in City Hall whenever I was a senior researcher with the United Kingdom Independence Party back 2017, 2018.
00:05:31.780And she, I thought, was doing fairly well there, standoff conservative values.
00:05:37.340But she now is leader of the Conservative Party in the UK.
00:05:42.500And it is quite shocking that she would take a sideswipe at Orban.
00:05:46.700Maybe it's just she wants to get in with the new leader in Hungary.
00:05:51.380Obviously, Peter Meiger, I can never pronounce his surname, but he has got a two thirds majority and there is absolute control, can change the constitution.
00:06:01.640He has all the levers of power at his disposal, yet he was criticising Orban for having in a powerful position.
00:06:10.240And you simply go where the voters bring you.
00:06:13.360But she is criticising and says that right wing populism won't dominate long term.
00:06:19.860And this offers fresh hope for traditional Conservatives in Europe and the UK.
00:06:25.620What does she mean by traditional Conservatives?
00:06:28.460This is something that Nigel Frage's party, Reform,
00:06:33.140I used to look early in the day at their pamphlets they used to put out.
00:06:39.720And they were maybe 80% on the financial Conservative side
00:07:44.120and is a bulwark against the European Union.
00:07:47.100But, of course, the new leader who has been voted in
00:07:50.760with that huge majority is certainly much more pro the European Union.
00:07:57.700And the whole issue of Russia also into the mix
00:08:03.760because, remember, Hungary traditionally got 80%, 90% of their energy from Russia.
00:08:09.660You don't really attack a country that is going to keep you afloat.
00:08:14.120And Viktor Orban realized that, and he was very pragmatic, where you've got this new leader in power, very much aligned with European Union, very much aligned with this anti-Putin idea.
00:08:29.240And that is going to be very destructive for Hungary.
00:08:32.900So I really, I scratch my head and look at this interview and think, what on earth is Kemi thinking, unless it's pure pragmatism and just jumping on the bandwagon of the new leader?
00:08:44.860Because I can't see anything you would criticize against Orban, unless you believe the lies the European Union put out.
00:08:51.620um i'll say one thing it struck me uh that peter magyar thought the two years just over two years
00:09:02.500because i think up until february 2024 he wasn't still a member of fidesz right quite very recent
00:09:09.020then um in real terms to leave um a political party set up your own um and and then win with
00:09:17.440this huge majority um first things i think he has established a different brand even though i think
00:09:26.960he tried hard to to be the orban not orban candidate orban without the orban if you will
00:09:36.200um and that's most noticeable i think with his relationship with regards to between hungary and
00:09:44.060the european union specifically i think they want to get the hungary wants to get this 35 billion
00:09:49.540euros of its own donations of its own taxpayer contributions to brussels to have back which i
00:09:56.080which have been totally illegally blocked uh via the eu to destabilize the the orban government
00:10:03.500i think he wants to get his hands on that money um and so there are certainly in terms of mood
00:10:09.040There's a different tone, and it has been for two years, with regards to what he will say, what would be Hungary's relationship with the European Union.
00:10:18.840You mentioned Russia, and I have to say the most recent remarks that he's come out with actually seemed very moderate with regards to Putin and indicated to me an intention at least not to be pulled automatically into the gravitational vortex of Brussels with regards to Ukraine.
00:10:40.880But specifically with regards to Russia, for the reasons that you mentioned, there were reasons of Hungary's national interest to keeping a bridge open to Moscow.
00:10:56.560And I think I'm going to wait to see what Magyar does on that one.
00:11:00.320What is Kemi doing here is the question that you asked, the rhetorical question.0.50
00:11:05.540And I will suggest, and you mentioned it in the first part of your answer, really the answer to this is I think she's narrative framing.
00:11:13.680And of course, she's on the back foot hugely.
00:11:17.460They had the worst ever result in a century in 2020, 2014, just before she was elected leader.
00:11:25.600And the reason for that is, of course, Nigel Farage and Reform UK.
00:11:30.140And when she takes a swing, when she says explicitly that conservatism is being challenged more by the right now, the economic nationalists, the populists, but I don't think that's going to be long lasting.
00:11:42.140She's obviously, I would suggest, engaged in narrative framing, trying to suggest that Victor Orban ran out of steam, pushing that agenda.
00:11:53.200And even though Nigel Farage is pushing the same sort of agenda in a UK context in the UK, that project for his will also run out of steam.
00:12:02.560I think it's narrative framing, but I think it's completely missed the reality of what's taking place.
00:12:07.360lest we forget and that's why um when i was on the show with steve on on monday i think the day after
00:12:13.740the results had started to come in from budapest i really have an analysis on this that i haven't
00:12:19.660seen picked anywhere else and that is it was always going to be very difficult to be honest
00:12:25.480very difficult for victor orban to win after 16 straight years 16 continuous years um in in in
00:12:35.100government in in in governance as the head of the government he did four years i think before that
00:12:40.720back in the 90s but from 2010 to 2016 that's a heck of a long time uh and i sort of think he
00:12:48.140was challenging the laws of electoral gravity going for another mandate i think with hindsight
00:12:54.460well i mean i was sort of saying this before but um i'll be gracious and say with hindsight
00:12:59.700Right. Perhaps the last mandate, he should have been sort of choosing a successor, an anointed assessor, rather than letting the natural democratic process do that for him.
00:13:11.920But that's what I think she's up to. If you have any closing remarks on this, Peter, I'll give away to you now and then we'll move on to the next article that we're going to talk about.
00:13:21.300No, I think it's just her trying to distance herself
00:13:23.380from someone who was linked to President Trump
00:13:26.240and someone who was linked incorrectly, I think, to Putin.
00:19:37.240Well, this is a good news story from the confusion of the Conservatives in Britain.
00:19:41.880And I wait to hear Kemi Bednock coming out and attacking the AFD because they are very much in the mould of Viktor Orban wanting to look at those traditional values.
00:19:53.820And it's fascinating because I think it was earlier, I think it was earlier this, earlier last month, I think it was March, there were two elections in the west of Germany and the AFD doubled their share.
00:20:08.820And Germany is basically still split west and east.
00:20:12.460And the AFD are polling top in really everywhere in East Germany and traditionally have not performed, traditionally they're a new party really, but traditionally have not performed as well in the West, which is more liberal.
00:20:25.180But that is also changing because the two elections they had in two of the regions last month, AFD doubled their share and won.
00:20:38.000And that shows that actually this understanding, this feeling of actually what is the culture of Germans, what traditionally does that mean?
00:20:49.600And Germany don't want to be just taken over by the European Union.
00:20:55.520They want their own identity, as traditionally most countries do want.
00:21:19.100And this is going to be interesting to watch how the elite respond to this.
00:21:23.600We saw how the elite responded to Marine Le Pen in France when they made sure that the vote was not split on the other side.
00:21:32.580And they did that to make sure that she would not win an absolute majority and held her out of those conversations on setting up a government.
00:21:42.060Same thing has happened in Austria with the Freedom Party.
00:21:45.240They won the election and yet they, for the first time since the Second World War, the leading party was not allowed, not invited to actually form a government.
00:21:55.660My concern is that Germany is too important.
00:22:05.160And my worry is that despite, and I'm hoping and praying, that we see each election bringing forward a landslide in two years.
00:22:17.160But of course, Germany, as many countries in Europe are coalitions, and whether or not the AFD will have enough to actually win.
00:22:27.220But you saw obviously with Gerd Fielders in the PVV party in the Netherlands having to rely on many other parties to come together in a coalition.
00:22:36.300And that provides chaos and in Germany has provided this confusion and the refusal to accept the AFD in any of those political conversations.
00:22:48.600This firewall that the article refers to, that no matter how well the AFD do, the other parties refuse to engage.
00:22:57.420At some point, that firewall has to break.
00:23:00.340And at some point, the government has to deal with the parties that are being elected by the people.
00:23:07.520So it'll be fascinating watching those election after election to see at what point does it happen
00:23:13.200that the governing party are forced to actually discuss with the AFD
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00:32:09.720sign up for free and be part of the movement welcome back well president trump has been
00:32:16.820putting huge pressure on the european members of nato america's great reliable allies to
00:32:27.840wake up their defense spending from the uh the agreed i think it's two percent of nato uh defense
00:32:37.380spending up to five percent um and of course this is having knock-on consequences across europe
00:32:45.700because the money doesn't exist i uh the financial times article but you can see it on your screen
00:32:55.500i think peter mcluverner really does do a disservice to the reality here uh and i'll just
00:33:03.900read the beginning sentence of this it says the eu and nato are at odds in what officials describe
00:33:10.600as a turf war over how to manage an extra one trillion dollars a year rearmament drive prompted
00:33:17.720by donald trump's threats to european security that's a complete misdirection play isn't it
00:33:25.320because that's not what the issue is here um i get why the ft is spinning it like that but really
00:33:32.300the issue is is that that one trillion dollars becomes from extra it comes from from the increase
00:33:39.140in the charter uh of agreed spending to to what america the trump administration has been pushing
00:33:45.660for the the five percent that's where that one trillion extra is coming from and the ft is
00:33:51.420trying to suggest i mean there's some truth that the that the war uh the the us israel war in the
00:33:58.920Middle East has created a lot of instability in continental Europe and continental Europe. It's
00:34:05.840working out how much pressure, how much of that load is going to shoulder for itself. That is
00:34:10.940absolutely true. That is part of the conversation. But fundamentally, they've got to cough up this
00:34:16.000money because Donald Trump is trying to get a better deal for American taxpayers. And they're
00:34:21.680trying to spin it as threats to European security. I have to flag that up because that is an
00:34:28.100indication of how fundamentally dishonest the mainstream media is but you have to be hawk-eyed
00:34:33.000about this to see this um but what's the uh what's going on between what the ft quotes someone here
00:34:41.220as a as us calling a war between nato and the eu right now well this i mean they they are correct
00:34:51.680Whenever you ramp up the spending, there will be a heated conversation in Europe that, I mean, it's traditionally been, what, Britain and France, really, who have had the military capability of building their own equipment and most other countries haven't.
00:35:11.780You've had coalitions of countries building most things, certainly aircraft for decades going back.
00:35:21.940So the major problem is that Europe cannot be relied upon to actually have a military.
00:35:29.780One, anything we ever had, we've sent to Ukraine.
00:35:36.380I think it was like nine months ago, the head of the British Army said that the UK had, I think, three days of armament or something, like ludicrous, that if we went into war, we could fight for three days and they would have to stop.
00:35:50.000Compare that to the US and the position of the US in the war with Iran, and it's nonstop.
00:38:51.020But I think that will have to change if we're going to ramp up the spending across Europe for the European Union to be a military superpower.
00:38:59.460But then the concern is, do the European Union demand central control away from individual countries, individual governments?
00:39:07.860That is also a debate that has been had in the past and I think will be had now.
00:39:13.340Whenever this money begins to flow, whenever armaments are discussed, suddenly the European Union will want a share of that.
00:39:20.580And they will say, why don't we set up a European Union army?
00:39:25.440So there are many aspects to this, Ben.
00:39:27.700The FT touched on that small side of the monies involved and the debate of who actually benefits from this.
00:39:35.180but there's so many other facets to this conversation um let me start off with my
00:39:43.220response to your magisterial synthesis there by putting out this responding to the 2035
00:39:51.460deadline which is when the europeans are pretending they're going to have their defense spending at
00:39:56.640five percent um why why 10 years why why well it's because president trump will be a long long
00:40:03.280long way from power by the time uh 2035 rolls around they're just i think they're just playing
00:40:10.600him out they're just saying yeah yes yes mr president we're absolutely it's uh yes we agree
00:40:15.920with you we'll do it 10 years time we'll be there at five percent don't you worry about it um they
00:40:22.220and of course fulfilling the knowledge that he'll be long gone um so that call me call me cynical
00:40:27.380on that one but i think that's why we have the 2035 um deadline long time time in the future
00:40:33.360uh i can't not mention here with regards it's my favorite illustration of just how performative
00:40:42.700the european countries are and saying oh we're now getting close to five percent uh we're increasing
00:40:50.200our defence expenditure by citing what is taking place here in Italy.
00:40:57.960Phony Maloney has said, I think she said, oh, we're now about 4%.
00:41:05.500But what they're doing, and this is the problem, right?
00:41:09.120This is the problem that I think the US administration
00:41:12.200should be spending a little more manpower on scrutinising these things.
00:41:20.200the reason they've got up to four percent is because this being italy they've gone in for
00:41:25.080dodgy accounting and what they're doing is they're counting things that were never defense
00:41:29.980expenditure for but they were spending when you're in any way because you know the italian
00:41:33.680government is the italian state is very top heavy um so they're they're just just imaginative
00:41:40.920accounting saying well this is not defense so you're gonna say okay hon roll that's like a
00:41:44.800That's a bold claim. Can you back that up?
00:41:47.080Well, firstly, they've put out, I think, however many billions it is to build this huge bridge between Sicily and the mainland of the peninsula.
00:41:57.340It's a bridge to nowhere. Huge, a huge boondoggle, I think the Americans term.
00:42:06.300And God knows who's actually behind that and who's going to get the swiping money off there.
00:42:11.860but i'll just mention again it's between sicily and and um and uh the the the the peninsula
00:42:18.660as you can draw your own conclusions over who's pushing that um and she's saying oh this is
00:42:25.820defense expenditure because we will we you know there's a nato based in sicily and we're going
00:42:31.680to need to be able to get to it in the case of war so it's basically an infrastructure travel
00:42:38.120It's effectively a transport infrastructure boondoggle that they're now offsetting against defence.
00:42:46.280They're including pensions, Department of Defence pensions now as defence expenditure.
00:42:52.980They're including the coast guards, the Italian coast guards on our defence expenditure,
00:42:59.460which is laughable seeing as the coast guards haven't done anything to stop the actual invasion taking place in Italy right now.
00:43:06.860So you have these press releases that are put out,
00:43:10.280and you have the get-togethers, the heads of government,
00:43:14.400heads of state get-togethers, and all these countries
00:43:17.020sort of preen themselves and push themselves to the front of the queue
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00:45:08.240forward slash Bannon or call 972 Patriot and make the switch today. So Peter McElvenna, I think it's
00:45:19.880pretty much unprecedented that a Supreme Court justice needs to publicly apologize to a colleague on the bench.
00:45:28.480And yet that's exactly what has happened.
00:46:32.400and probably doesn't know any person who works by the hour.
00:46:36.520And this is to do with the ICE raids and deportations.
00:46:42.940And so what if he's got a privileged background?
00:46:46.900So what if he's got a non-privileged background?
00:46:49.880Every one of the privileged background does not get to the high levels of the Supreme Court.
00:46:55.600Those are nine individuals who are regarded as the highest legal minds in the US.
00:47:01.980So he wasn't granted that just because his parents were well off or he had a privileged background.
00:47:10.300But it is quite shocking for her to use that as a critique that actually just because you've got a privileged background means that you want to deport people who are there illegally.
00:47:22.640Surely, if they're legally or illegally, you're breaking the law.
00:47:27.500That should be an issue that concerns any law-abiding citizen.
00:47:33.240Maybe she's less of a law-abiding citizen.
00:48:17.480I don't think Kavanaugh has actually responded, which I thought was very monogamous of him and shows that he can rise above and take the high road.
00:48:33.700I'm sure the posse can correct us in the chat, but I think he stayed silent on this, which I think is a mark of a man that he doesn't engage in this.
00:48:44.380He is just focused on his job as a Supreme Court justice, making sure that Americans get justice delivered at the highest score of the land.
00:48:56.500So, yeah. So, again, this is very different from the UK because obviously we have, what, five very liberal judges in the Supreme Court in the UK.
00:49:35.860But actually, she hasn't apologised for calling someone out because they have a more privileged background than someone else.
00:49:43.700Would she attack someone who had a less privileged background for what they say?
00:49:48.460Would she say if someone didn't have a good education, then they're wrong in thinking something?
00:49:55.000Surely all those Supreme Court judges are very intelligent people, whatever their background is from.
00:50:00.300And they come to all those rulings very carefully.
00:50:04.520They don't rush into any rulings. They come to them very carefully and they weigh up everything in those decisions.
00:50:12.360And I've been certainly impressed, well, maybe more impressed by some of them, by Clarence Thomas, who, of course, is a judicial hero.
00:50:23.140If only he had nine of Clarence Thomas, but Samuel Alta as well, I've been really impressed by him and impressed by Kavanaugh whenever he was opposed by the media getting into that position and actually holding the line and getting in.
00:50:41.260Some of the others less impressed, but I don't know what the US media have made of this.
00:50:47.540I really have no idea because I haven't followed it closely.
00:50:51.340I've just glanced at this story and read it at face value.
00:50:54.740But I don't know if the US media have attacked her for her comments, for her attack on his background or have backed Kavanaugh for his silence.
00:51:05.860Or is this attack on a class system you'd maybe expect in the UK, but maybe less so in the US.
00:51:12.720Peter, just give me your quick take in 30 seconds on this.
00:51:17.180do you think justice sotomayor was compelled to offer this apology by john roberts behind the
00:51:26.980scenes oh i'm sure she was i'm sure she wouldn't have given it just open-heartedly i'm sure she
00:51:33.540was forced to to give an apology she didn't back down but she apologized for the offense which is
00:51:39.120often what happens from the left so i'm sure she was forced to to say this apology yes and that's
00:51:46.320really an indication therefore i think of the unprofessional ability of president obama's
00:51:51.440original appointment right oh 100 100 100 peter that was absolutely superb many thanks for joining
00:52:01.000us this evening on the war room i'll invite the war room posse to check out your hearts of oak
00:52:07.000uk podcast on x at hearts of oak uk i've been on it myself a number of times as a guest absolutely
00:52:14.420superb very well worth tuning in and following that's it steve will be back at 10 a.m tomorrow
00:52:20.780morning i'll be back next week and i want to thank kyle the real america's voice for helping
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