Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 'ARE TECHNO-OPTIMISM AND POPULISM INCOMPATIBLE？'

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.620 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.860 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.140 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.080 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.500 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.220 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.160 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.420 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.820 Mega Media.

00:00:28.740 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.620 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.360 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.760 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:00:53.600 It's Friday, 11 April in the year of our Lord, 2025.

00:00:56.960 Welcome for the second hour of our late afternoon, early edition of the War Room.

00:01:03.340 Remember, one of the big fights around has been as President Trump and the tech bros.

00:01:08.660 Remember, you had the tech bros and the oligarchs versus the economic nationalists and the populist,

00:01:15.560 the populist nationalist movement.

00:01:16.880 I think a lot of that got answered this week with President Trump's complete throwdown on Liberation Day,

00:01:26.260 the following from Liberation Day, but particularly really engaging for the first time against the Chinese Communist Party and head on.

00:01:32.800 President Trump had confronted them back in 2019.

00:01:36.020 He actually, as you remember, offered them a deal that would integrate them into the world economy.

00:01:40.680 They essentially spit in his face.

00:01:42.580 This was in May of 19.

00:01:43.900 And then next thing you know, you've got the pandemic and you have and you have Wuhan.

00:01:48.360 President Trump, this question has been, was he going too much for the tech bros?

00:01:53.240 We know by having his FTC, his FCC, the antitrust people, they have this incredible group of folks they have over at the Justice Department.

00:02:04.140 The President Trump has got the greatest set of kind of antitrust, break up the oligarchs that ever had.

00:02:09.340 And you saw this past week with Josh Hawley, he's got support in the United States Senate.

00:02:14.640 Look, there was a conference held in the last couple of days.

00:02:18.980 Two things happened.

00:02:19.760 One, I went to a conference of kind of tech elites, but these are more on the entrepreneur side.

00:02:24.460 Also, I went over to the Justice Department.

00:02:26.180 We're going to break down all of this over the next couple of days so you can see it.

00:02:29.980 This conference was called Y Combinator for Little Tech Competition.

00:02:34.360 This panel was techno-optimism and populism.

00:02:37.940 Are they incompatible?

00:02:40.080 And I make the case that they could be – they can actually be very compatible if you have the right type of regulatory apparatus.

00:02:47.320 Josh Green, the great reporter from Bloomberg over there who wrote Devil's Bargain, kind of the rise of President Trump and populist nationalism, which I take a prominent role in that book.

00:02:59.320 It was a big bestseller.

00:03:01.520 Rohit Chopra is someone from the Biden administration.

00:03:05.740 He's actually one of the colleagues of Elizabeth Warren, and he ran the bureau that President Trump is in the process of shutting down.

00:03:17.040 So he's the guy on the left, but he shares a lot of what we think about this thing, about these companies being too big, these oligarchs being too big.

00:03:24.020 So here's what we're going to do.

00:03:24.960 We're going to play a chunk of this conference with me, giving as good as I get.

00:03:29.940 And then I'm going to come back in in this first half-hour block and kind of summarize.

00:03:35.300 So let's go ahead and cut right now to the tape itself.

00:03:43.000 Thank you all for being here.

00:03:44.520 You ready to get going?

00:03:48.420 I'm coming right after you.

00:03:50.460 No, Josh.

00:03:51.320 Let's slow down.

00:03:52.220 Yeah.

00:03:52.600 All right.

00:03:52.920 This is too fast.

00:03:54.960 As we look ahead.

00:03:56.520 I thought Bloomberg was supposed to move fast.

00:03:59.960 We're moving fast.

00:04:01.860 You've already written articles in the last month quoting Rohit and Steve, so I feel like I'm up to speed, and I want to get you guys up to speed, too.

00:04:09.280 Looking ahead to this new Trump era, I wanted to start off by asking you both about an idea that was written up in the Atlantic yesterday that I think has big implications for what tech and antitrust policy might look like in the years ahead.

00:04:22.920 The article suggested there's been a fusion on the right between MAGA nationalists like Steve and big tech barons like Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and Mark Andreessen, all in opposition to this specter of wokeness that people on the right are so worked up about.

00:04:41.540 But the article goes on to suggest that big tech is actually the one in the driver's seat and that folks like Steve are, and I'm quoting the article here, political sucker fish riding a whale.

00:04:54.260 My question for you, Steve, is this true?

00:04:56.760 Are you in the MAGA crowd beholden to big tech, or does Elon Musk's humiliation in Wisconsin last night begin to weaken his political standing and his influence on policy in the Trump presidency?

00:05:10.640 Are you assuming that someone spends $20 million and goes with a cheese head on a stage and bounces around and is humiliated?

00:05:18.060 Okay.

00:05:19.060 Okay. 0.85

00:05:20.060 The fusion, the whole fusion crap is pushed by the tech oligarchs. 0.76

00:05:28.060 You know why? 0.85

00:05:29.060 Why?

00:05:30.060 They fear populism.

00:05:31.060 They fear economic nationalism.

00:05:32.060 If we have, we admit, we're in a coalition, it is a coalition.

00:05:37.540 But there's a much higher probability that we will have fusion with certain of the ideas of Rohit and particularly Lina Khan and others that have fought monopolies, have fought oligarchs for years.

00:05:53.160 And I think that's where the fusion is going to come.

00:05:55.160 One of the biggest scourges in our country are these oligarchs, the lords of easy money on Wall Street, the corporatists, and particularly the apartheid state of Silicon Valley.

00:06:07.160 And it's a huge problem.

00:06:08.160 And yes, we're in a very uneasy coalition, but it is a coalition.

00:06:14.160 They were, some of them, quite central to our victory in November.

00:06:18.160 And they were also central to our, let's say there was a huge defeat last night in the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin.

00:06:26.160 So my question then is if, is that you agree with that?

00:06:29.160 Yeah, I think so.

00:06:30.160 I think if you look at the first Trump term, you know, at the, at the Federal Trade Commission, for example, every single time you really saw the Republicans on the FTC speaking from a different hymn book than Trump.

00:06:49.160 They were pro Chinese manufacturing, they were pro big tech, they were pro big pharma.

00:06:56.160 And then you saw others who were really trying to fight against a lot of that money.

00:07:01.160 And now we think Silicon Valley used to be lots and lots of little tech.

00:07:06.160 And is it going to stay that way?

00:07:08.160 Or is it just going to be owned by these six dudes?

00:07:12.160 And Zuckerberg can, you know, wear whatever chains he want.

00:07:17.160 But I think at the end of the day, if they control this whole system, there's big trouble for our country.

00:07:24.160 You're not going to burrow out.

00:07:25.160 You're not going to start going to UFC fights.

00:07:27.160 And no, the fusion, no, the fusionism is pushed by, we're in a coalition.

00:07:32.160 The fusionism, they want us to be subservient to their interest in techno feudalism.

00:07:37.160 And we're not going to do that.

00:07:39.160 The power we still have here and the difference in the first term, we've now evolved this party to be truly a working class and middle class party.

00:07:48.160 And the Democrats have kind of lost that or lost focus on it.

00:07:50.160 They become the credential class.

00:07:52.160 And we need to drive this point home.

00:07:54.160 That's why we're building a bigger coalition.

00:07:56.160 And I think if we do our job and somehow we can keep them together in an uneasy coalition, although I don't know if that's possible, we can build a, we can redefine politics like in 1932.

00:08:07.160 We're at that inflection point that is upon us to do it.

00:08:10.160 And things like last night obviously are a big setback.

00:08:14.160 Looking ahead at the policy landscape though, if Elon and the six bros are representing big tech, who, if anyone, is standing up for little tech in the Trump administration?

00:08:23.160 I think you've got a lot of people.

00:08:24.160 I mean, I think you've got, we've got our new, one of our new FTC commissioners are here.

00:08:29.160 Mark's here.

00:08:30.160 You've got our vice, where's Mike Davis?

00:08:33.160 The fire breather Mike Davis is a fire breather for the unpopular side.

00:08:37.160 If you look in the justice department right tomorrow, I'm going to be over there at justice with Omid and others, Gail Slater.

00:08:44.160 I mean, we have, look, I think Lena Kahn is one of the most important political figures in this country.

00:08:51.160 And I think if she had been listened to more by Democrats, they would actually have been more competitive against us in November of 2024.

00:08:58.160 But I think you have a lot of people that I would call Neo Brandeisians that actually see the danger of concentration of massive concentration of personal wealth and power to government power.

00:09:13.160 And look, let's be blunt.

00:09:16.160 That was all caused by the Democrat and most progressive elements of the Democratic Party.

00:09:20.160 The bailouts on Wall Street in 2008, which were unacceptable.

00:09:24.160 And the kind of Faustian bargain given to the big six dudes to essentially say, you're going to have monopolistic power, but we'll make a deal with you.

00:09:34.160 You have to be at the cutting edge of that because we're a hegemon.

00:09:37.160 You have to have the commanding heights of technology.

00:09:39.160 TikTok shows you they've blown it on social media.

00:09:42.160 And quite frankly, Deep Seek, whether it's a Chinese PSYOP or if it's real, shows you that their method, right, 0.99

00:09:49.160 which they do climate change overboard, all that overboard for this mass power of AI is wrong.

00:09:55.160 And now what do they want?

00:09:57.160 They want a bailout.

00:09:58.160 They want a $500 billion mercury program or Marshall Plan, however they call it.

00:10:03.160 And they want us to turn the national labs over to them.

00:10:05.160 Absolutely.

00:10:06.160 Right?

00:10:07.160 So, these guys, they have an insatiable appetite for money and power.

00:10:11.160 And it's got to be stopped.

00:10:13.160 And they want to hand over a playbook that is really Europe's playbook from the 40's about trying to have a click of corporate royalty

00:10:24.160 that we're supposed to help the entire time.

00:10:27.160 And I thought America built all of this because we made sure there was little companies challenging these big guys

00:10:34.160 and running them out of business when they're doing something better.

00:10:38.160 So, I think this is the jump ball right now.

00:10:41.160 We see it in a few different places.

00:10:43.160 But if they hollow out and defund some of these enforcers, they're not going to be able to go up against.

00:10:51.160 Hold on.

00:10:52.160 Let me ask you about that.

00:10:53.160 Are we taking this over?

00:10:54.160 Are you going to get some water into this?

00:10:56.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:57.160 I want to spice this up a little bit because you sound like you're half asleep.

00:11:01.160 Ruin, you were recently on the receiving end of the Trump-Musk policy approach.

00:11:07.160 And so, I'm imagining your view of Trump's approach is a little less rosy when it comes to big tech than maybe Steve's is.

00:11:13.160 You told me at the time for a Bloomberg post I wrote, quote, defunding the police that watch over Wall Street and big tech will cost consumers billions of dollars.

00:11:21.160 What's the case you'd make to folks like Steve and Republicans on the right for why a robust enforcement regime is necessary?

00:11:29.160 Well, look, Steve mentioned the bailouts.

00:11:33.160 I think this a lot of what our discourse is today, whether we know it or not, comes from the financial crisis and the big giveaways to those who are already powerful.

00:11:45.160 In what planet can you mismanage your business so badly and go on the other side and become bigger and more powerful?

00:11:54.160 That's exactly what happened in 2008.

00:11:58.160 So, I really think, look, it is a jump ball in so many places.

00:12:04.160 When Musk and whoever took over the CFPB, one of the first people they fired were the tech people, the ones who were doing the investigations of big tech companies creating currency.

00:12:19.160 They were the ones who were trying to make sure there was open tech so that small companies could challenge big banks.

00:12:26.160 So, we're going to see a fight on both sides, I think, but I don't know how it's going to turn out if they keep getting rid of the watchdogs and just expect these agencies to be lapdogs.

00:12:39.160 OK, so I want to dig in a little bit more on this idea of a struggle between big tech and little tech, how it might play out in the Trump years.

00:12:48.160 And I want to provoke you both a bit by offering some historical context.

00:12:53.160 Richard Nixon famously wanted his Justice Department to threaten investigations of the major TV networks in order to obtain friendlier coverage, perhaps a precursor to Trump's later threats against big tech.

00:13:07.160 On the Nixon tapes, we hear him saying a DOJ investigation, quote, gives us one hell of a club, a sort of Damocles, Nixon called it, to coerce favorable coverage.

00:13:19.160 Steve, is that Trump's real aim here, just a friendlier Facebook and a defang Washington Post?

00:13:25.160 Or are there real populist instincts that might lean against the power of some of the big tech companies?

00:13:31.160 I think, look, it's obviously, you know, something that's being worked out through the Trump administration.

00:13:36.160 Like I said, we're a coalition. There's definitely voices on big tech.

00:13:40.160 They have every lobbyist in this town, every law firm in this town. Let's say it's a rigged system.

00:13:45.160 The system's totally rigged. If you want to go up against big tech now, I'm going to tell you how tough this is.

00:13:49.160 But you talked to him personally about this.

00:13:51.160 Here's what I think is, here's one of the things I think is important, is our going after the big law firms.

00:13:57.160 We're trying to go after the machinery that has this system set up, to go after the big law firms.

00:14:03.160 I think we have to go after the big investment banks, the big hedge funds, the money center banks.

00:14:07.160 You have to go after all of them. And basically, you know, play smash mouth, because they play smash mouth with you.

00:14:15.160 This system is run by money and power. It's run by oligarchic centers in both Wall Street, the corporatists, and Silicon Valley.

00:14:24.160 And we're just not going to change it overnight. And there is a struggle.

00:14:26.160 I mean, you have, I would submit to you that, and if you read the front two pages of the remedy section in the Google case

00:14:35.160 and see where our Justice Department's coming at, it kind of stuns me of how antitrust the people we've put in.

00:14:43.160 I mean, people know, I'm a big admirer, Alina Khan. I don't think we've made that big a shift. I would love to have her back.

00:14:49.160 I think she'd be terrific. But we're just a difference in degree, not so much in kind, of what we put in place today.

00:14:55.160 And I think you're going to see tough antitrust action taking place. That's why I think Wall Street's not enamored.

00:15:01.160 They didn't see the big wave of M&A and M&A fees coming. So, this is all, but it's always going to be a struggle.

00:15:07.160 It's who's going to be able to have muscle politically. In Florida 6, we were down three points, I think up to two weeks ago.

00:15:17.160 When our show got involved, Breitbart got involved, we got our grassroots volunteers out.

00:15:22.160 You know, Scott Jennings on CNN makes a very important point about, as we've reshaped this party to be more working class

00:15:28.160 and middle class, we also are dependent upon low propensity voters. Low propensity, low information.

00:15:36.160 And it's not, they're not degreed or not dumb by low information. They're just not interested in politics, right?

00:15:41.160 These people basically come up for Trump. We have to have a massive grassroots effort every time to get them out.

00:15:47.160 Scott's absolutely correct. And this is one of the reasons we won in Florida 6, has got it out.

00:15:51.160 So, the power we have to, what do they call them, sucker fish?

00:15:55.160 Yeah. We have to deliver, you know, mass amounts of grassroots, right, who are basically entrepreneurs, right?

00:16:02.160 The little guy, the little shopkeepers, the workers. We have to deliver that, and we have to deliver it consistently.

00:16:08.160 But I think you're starting to see that we did win, shouldn't be lost, we did win overwhelmingly the voter ID in Wisconsin last night.

00:16:17.160 Although we lost, we lost, I think, we got blown out.

00:16:21.160 I mean, since I've known you, you've been really outspoken.

00:16:23.160 You just mentioned it now about the power of money in politics.

00:16:26.160 And I'm interested in how that applies to tech and antitrust policy.

00:16:29.160 What, is there evidence you can point me to that Trump is serious about pursuing a crackdown he's talked about in the past?

00:16:36.160 Yes, I agree.

00:16:37.160 And it won't be bought off by inauguration checks from Zuckerberg and Bagos.

00:16:40.160 Look at the FTC.

00:16:41.160 Well, hold it.

00:16:42.160 It's all, listen.

00:16:43.160 A Melania documentary on Amazon.

00:16:44.160 We're in an imperial capital that the populist nationalist movement did not create.

00:16:49.160 Okay?

00:16:50.160 This is an empire.

00:16:51.160 Exactly what the revolutionary generation and the framers and the founders of our nation warned us against, we evolved into.

00:16:57.160 If the revolutionary generation of framers came back to say they'd spit on the floor with how we've allowed this country to evolve.

00:17:05.160 And so, our movement is relatively young and having political power.

00:17:10.160 But look at our Justice Department.

00:17:13.160 Look at some of the commissioners we're putting on there.

00:17:16.160 These people are almost as big of fire breathers as Rahit and Lina Khan.

00:17:20.160 That's what I think is so shocking.

00:17:22.160 Is the personnel the real focus that you see?

00:17:24.160 Personnel's policy in this town, right?

00:17:27.160 Particularly working.

00:17:28.160 Go back and read.

00:17:29.160 Look at what we're doing at Google.

00:17:30.160 Both in the courts in Northern Virginia and in D.C.

00:17:32.160 Read.

00:17:33.160 You should definitely want to read the summary that the folks wrote.

00:17:38.160 It's quite powerful.

00:17:39.160 And I think it shows you the beginning of a framework of what I would call a populist nationalist idea about antitrust and about taking on these oligarchs.

00:17:51.160 Let me ask you, like, people don't think of you as this necessarily, but you were actually, in a manner of speaking, a two-time Trump official.

00:17:58.160 Because you served in the Trump FTC.

00:18:01.160 And you had a long and glorious, what was it, like, seven-day run as director of CFC?

00:18:07.160 Thirteen.

00:18:08.160 Thirteen.

00:18:09.160 That's more than a Scaramucci.

00:18:10.160 So you look, but you, in all seriousness, you've had, it seems to me, a variety of experiences with Trump and his policy impulses when it comes to antitrust and other things.

00:18:22.160 I remember you were at FTC when they first went after Facebook.

00:18:26.160 You did some cracking down on companies that had abused the Made in America label, I remember, that Republicans were against.

00:18:33.160 But I believe Trump spoke out in favor of that.

00:18:36.160 So you've seen all sides of the man.

00:18:38.160 I mean, how serious do you think he is about pursuing an agenda that would really police big tech and stand up for little tech companies, a lot of whom don't think they really have a voice?

00:18:50.160 Well, I'm not his therapist or psychoanalyst, but I guess I'd say this.

00:18:55.160 When you actually look at the people, the people that were put on the Federal Trade Commission in 2018, most of them were voting with big pharma, big tech, those guys.

00:19:12.160 Over time, you saw some shifts.

00:19:15.160 We ended up voting out the Facebook complaint, two Democrats, one Republican, against two very pro-monopoly Republicans.

00:19:25.160 So we'll see how it plays out.

00:19:27.160 There are some warning signs.

00:19:29.160 I have no idea why they would fire the two Federal Trade Commissioners.

00:19:34.160 Is that a positive moment when you fire the Democrats?

00:19:37.160 Well, it's also like, why fire them?

00:19:39.160 They're the ones who are also on board with going after some of this concentrated power,

00:19:44.160 standing up for little companies, for little pharmacists, for little grocers, and the list goes on and on.

00:19:51.160 I don't know what that was about.

00:19:53.160 But I think this is now the question.

00:19:55.160 Are we going to see a repeat of 2018 or is Steve going to be right that there's going to be some big change?

00:20:03.160 See, I think that's an evolution of our party.

00:20:05.160 I think we're getting more populists and more nationalists.

00:20:07.160 Look, in 2016 we came out of nowhere to win.

00:20:10.160 We've had it in those four years at Interregnum, President Trump, and you see the relationships he built and who he's put in.

00:20:16.160 People should understand.

00:20:17.160 I am banned on every platform.

00:20:20.160 I'm banned in perpetuity of Facebook, on YouTube.

00:20:22.160 Still?

00:20:23.160 Yeah.

00:20:24.160 Twitter.

00:20:25.160 Oh.

00:20:26.160 Spotify.

00:20:27.160 I can go through.

00:20:28.160 I'm banned.

00:20:29.160 The show is the number one or number two podcast in the country, essentially.

00:20:33.160 If you look at Pod Save America, we're generally in the back of them.

00:20:36.160 I'm banned everywhere.

00:20:38.160 I was debanked after January, after President Trump went back to Mar-a-Lago.

00:20:43.160 All my banks fired me.

00:20:45.160 All my law firms fired me.

00:20:47.160 I had big name law firms.

00:20:48.160 All fired me.

00:20:49.160 All my credit cards were canceled.

00:20:51.160 I went to federal prison.

00:20:53.160 Right?

00:20:54.160 I've seen the power of the state.

00:20:56.160 And you know what I say to them? 1.00

00:20:57.160 Go fuck yourself. 1.00

00:20:58.160 Right? 1.00

00:20:59.160 We're going to, because you have to.

00:21:01.160 Otherwise they're out to crush you.

00:21:02.160 Don't think I'm any different than any of you guys.

00:21:05.160 You raise your head up against the apparatus and they're going to do the exact same thing to you.

00:21:09.160 This is why I think there's much more commonality.

00:21:12.160 The potential fusion I think we do have is much deeper behind the scenes and much deeper

00:21:19.160 as we get back to actually what is populist?

00:21:22.160 What is economic nationalism?

00:21:23.160 How do you defend the little guy?

00:21:25.160 How do you defend the entrepreneur?

00:21:27.160 How do we get back to our entrepreneurial roots as a country?

00:21:30.160 Right?

00:21:31.160 And it's a struggle and we're not going to agree on everything culturally.

00:21:33.160 We're not going to agree on everything politically.

00:21:34.160 But when I look at the battlefield I feel pretty good.

00:21:37.160 I feel that there's a natural reaction to the Facebooks.

00:21:41.160 Into the Silicon Valley crowd.

00:21:43.160 Into the Wall Street crowd.

00:21:45.160 With what's happening in artificial intelligence.

00:21:48.160 What's happening with this conflict.

00:21:50.160 This economic war against the Chinese Communist Party.

00:21:53.160 All of it.

00:21:54.160 Obviously technology plays a huge role in these oligarchs of the big five or six combined companies.

00:22:02.160 And this is one of the reasons about this whole Zuckerberg trial on Facebook that is so important.

00:22:09.160 And President Trump I think is taking a very firm stand and having my back.

00:22:13.160 I love that conference.

00:22:14.160 I really appreciate the folks.

00:22:16.160 The folks inviting me.

00:22:18.160 Which I thought was pretty extraordinary.

00:22:20.160 Very controversial in them.

00:22:21.160 But we had a terrific time.

00:22:23.160 The second part of that.

00:22:25.160 And I think you'll see some of the audience response supporting our positions.

00:22:29.160 We're going to play right as we get into the next hour.

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00:23:16.160 In the era of Trump.

00:23:17.160 This is actually an introductory.

00:23:19.160 Totally free.

00:23:20.160 You get up to speed.

00:23:21.160 Also you can get totally free.

00:23:23.160 The end of the dollar empire.

00:23:24.160 Remember the Chinese Communist Party is running around.

00:23:26.160 Trying to de-dollarize the world's economic system.

00:23:29.160 This is one of the ways they think they can really strike at us.

00:23:32.160 To take the gold off being the prime reserve currency.

00:23:35.160 Now we make the argument in this series.

00:23:37.160 Which is totally free.

00:23:38.160 That hey.

00:23:39.160 Maybe we don't want to be the prime reserve currency.

00:23:41.160 Because it comes with a whole lot of global responsibilities.

00:23:44.160 But.

00:23:45.160 That has to be a national debate.

00:23:47.160 And that's something that would take years for us to kind of unwind.

00:23:50.160 The Chinese Communist Party wants it to happen overnight.

00:23:53.160 As a blow.

00:23:54.160 A strike against the United States of America.

00:23:56.160 And her citizens.

00:23:57.160 The end of the dollar empire.

00:23:59.160 The six free.

00:24:00.160 Go to.

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00:24:12.160 This will get you up to speed.

00:24:13.160 Quite frankly.

00:24:14.160 Even for the debates.

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00:24:19.160 So.

00:24:20.160 Make sure you get it.

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00:24:26.160 One more thing.

00:24:27.160 The.

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00:24:36.160 Getting their attentions.

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00:24:39.160 We don't need you tied up.

00:24:41.160 Particularly if somebody gets into your.

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00:25:34.160 Okay.

00:25:35.160 We take a short commercial break.

00:25:36.160 We'll come back.

00:25:37.160 I'm going to set it up.

00:25:38.160 I want to get you into more of this.

00:25:39.160 Of this.

00:25:40.160 Conference that I spoke at.

00:25:41.160 I really want to thank the people over at.

00:25:43.160 White Combinator.

00:25:44.160 It was done over at the Gallup headquarters.

00:25:46.160 Quite beautiful.

00:25:47.160 The old Masonic Hall.

00:25:48.160 That is very famous in Washington, D.C.

00:25:50.160 President Grant used to.

00:25:52.160 Used to frequent it a lot.

00:25:54.160 A lot of the reconstruction.

00:25:55.160 They said of the United States.

00:25:57.160 The Civil War is done there.

00:25:58.160 So we're going to leave you with Modern Day Holy War.

00:26:00.160 I'm going to be back in just a moment.

00:26:02.160 We're going to be changing.

00:26:03.160 As if all the founding fathers seem to get it wrong.

00:26:14.160 But I say.

00:26:17.160 I still believe in.

00:26:21.160 The greatest innovator.

00:26:23.160 Liberator.

00:26:24.160 Cultivator.

00:26:25.160 Freedom knows.

00:26:26.160 So I suggest you take a look inside.

00:26:38.160 Cause I think you've changed already.

00:26:42.160 You went and lost your pride.

00:26:46.160 But I'm American made.

00:26:48.160 I got American power.

00:26:53.160 I got American faith.

00:26:58.160 In America's heart.

00:27:00.160 The April 15th tax deadline is coming.

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00:27:20.160 You need to get ahead of this.

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00:31:26.160 War Room.

00:31:27.160 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.

00:31:33.160 Okay, that was obviously American Heart, not Modern Day Holy War.

00:31:38.160 American Heart from the great John Kahn.

00:31:41.160 Of course, Modern Day Holy War, some of our other album music, is from the incredible Lady No Grady.

00:31:47.160 Nicole No Grady.

00:31:48.160 I love that song.

00:31:49.160 I love John Kahn's song.

00:31:50.160 We always go out or try to go out with the right stuff.

00:31:52.160 Sometimes we do Billy Joe Shaver on those kind of days with Get Behind Me, Satan.

00:31:59.160 Get thee behind me, Satan, which is always a good one on certain days.

00:32:02.160 Welcome back.

00:32:03.160 We're going to do a little more of the conference, then I'm going to come back and give you some of my closing thoughts.

00:32:08.160 One thing here is that President Trump, and this is what he's going after, Charlie Gasparino's story that we talked about this morning with Dave Bratt, that he's now going to go after the money center banks.

00:32:20.160 Everything President Trump's trying to do, if you look at it, is to support the forgotten man and woman.

00:32:25.160 This is why this was a conference of entrepreneurs, of kind of people getting, you know, friends and family round, angel rounds, initial venture capital, and what they wanted, what they're trying to promote.

00:32:36.160 And that's why they're in Washington, D.C., is a sense of competition and how important it is to have the entrepreneurial spirit.

00:32:41.160 Well, listen, nothing has the entrepreneurial spirit more than, one, Donald Trump.

00:32:46.160 He is the ultimate entrepreneur of what he's done in the real estate area, media, all of his endeavors.

00:32:52.160 But also, he supports entrepreneurs.

00:32:54.160 One of the most powerful driving focuses we have in the MAGA movement, in the Make America Healthy Again movement, if you think about it, you're against big tech.

00:33:03.160 You're against big pharma.

00:33:05.160 You're against these big, faceless, kind of heartless corporations that are just looking to do everything grinded out to the bottom line.

00:33:12.160 There can be nothing that MAGA is more opposed to.

00:33:16.160 And that's why I was very proud to speak at this conference.

00:33:19.160 I will tell you, in this conference, and I'm not saying it was a hostile environment, but it's an environment of folks that don't listen to War Room and really haven't had access to what we've been trying to promote over the last couple of years.

00:33:30.160 It was a very warm reception at the end.

00:33:33.160 They agree with a lot that we had to say.

00:33:35.160 And because it really is put forward President Trump's message that he's trying to stand up for the little guy.

00:33:40.160 He's trying to stand up for the forgotten man and woman.

00:33:43.160 And this is if you see everything that he's working on, every one of the verticals, whether it's national security, of which he wants to stop the forever wars so that young men and women's lives are just not thrown away on these foreign battlefields, to everything to his national, his economic nationalism, which is really focused on the American citizen and making sure they have a better deal or the best deal.

00:34:06.160 And that their tax dollars are not thrown out and just come back to hurt them and to hurt their economic well-being.

00:34:14.160 Everything President Trump does is really in defense of the little guy, the forgotten man and woman.

00:34:19.160 That's why it was in his first inaugural address, the American Carnage address that had a little bit to do with.

00:34:25.160 And I'm very proud that President Trump allowed me to do that because you see his direction was standing up for the little guy.

00:34:31.160 OK, we've got a little more, a few more clips of this to play from this conference.

00:34:35.160 Rohit Chopra is the other executive.

00:34:38.160 And Josh Green is the is the moderator from Bloomberg News, one of the biggest reporters over there on, like I told you, the terminal in Bloomberg News, Bloomberg Businessweek.

00:34:49.160 Very, very, very powerful in the financial community. Let's go ahead and play the tape and I'll come back with some closing observations and commentary in a couple of minutes.

00:35:00.160 So I think there's I think there's I think there's a great future for populism, how we define it in economic nationalism.

00:35:07.160 Let's let's broaden the aperture a little bit beyond the U.S.

00:35:10.160 Steve, you've been quite active in supporting populist right wing causes, not just here, but across the globe and in Europe.

00:35:16.160 Trump has two supporting populist politicians in December when he nominated Gail Slater.

00:35:22.160 He said, quote, big tech has run wild for years, stifling competition in our most innovative sector.

00:35:28.160 I think he posted that on True Social. Given that Europe is grappling with many of the same policy issues in regard to big tech.

00:35:35.160 Do you support and should Trump support the EU's efforts to crack down on big players like Apple and Google in an effort to open up markets overseas?

00:35:45.160 I do agree with trying to try to stop these people anywhere we can because I think they've gotten too much power.

00:35:52.160 I would like to see instead of, you know, you have seventy five electric vehicle companies, but you have one search company.

00:35:57.160 Right. We should have 100 search companies. We should have, you know, Facebook.

00:36:01.160 We should have 100 alternatives.

00:36:03.160 The only thing that holds me back about the Europeans is that there's no more corrupt system than the EU and what they do.

00:36:10.160 Right. These are still the it's still the monarchists.

00:36:13.160 It's still the aristocracy. Right.

00:36:15.160 That most of our families, you know, many generations ago came away from.

00:36:19.160 This is why I so detest the established order in Europe.

00:36:22.160 And I'm a big supporter of kind of these right-wing populist nationalists, which each one's different.

00:36:27.160 Right. And each one's got its own characteristics as it should in these countries.

00:36:31.160 But we have a long fight over there. Look, it shouldn't be lost to anybody.

00:36:34.160 They tried to put Trump in prison for 300 years.

00:36:37.160 Bolsonaro's on trial for his life.

00:36:39.160 They're going to find him guilty in the show trial.

00:36:41.160 They're putting him in a prison. He's going to be assassinated or they're going to attempt to assassinate him. 0.91

00:36:45.160 And Le Pen, he's up by 20 points in the poll.

00:36:48.160 And they're putting Le Pen now has a four year prison sentence and can't run for reelection.

00:36:54.160 That may all be worked out.

00:36:55.160 But that is what this kind of judicial, what I call insurrection, is coming against the populist right.

00:37:01.160 And we have to just power through it.

00:37:03.160 I don't think we should outsource anything to Europe.

00:37:07.160 But I will say this when they've been doing all their committees after their laws, the people who are actually going and using that process to challenge big gatekeepers from squelching them out are a lot of a little American companies because they want access to that market, too.

00:37:27.160 So I don't know. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our own work here.

00:37:33.160 We should not allow, you know, Facebook's Libra currency scheme to come back again.

00:37:40.160 We should not have these new types of dollars that big tech companies control and can wall everyone out of.

00:37:49.160 We should be passing laws and doing work here in Washington in every single state.

00:37:56.160 And there are so many issues where I think there's a lot of agreement, child and teen privacy and exploitation of them, counterfeit goods and labeling.

00:38:08.160 I mean, the list goes on and on.

00:38:10.160 And the big tech companies have fought every single step of the way.

00:38:14.160 And we should fight against that.

00:38:16.160 All right. It's Liberation Day. I'm sure you all have heard.

00:38:20.160 I'd love to get a preview from Steve.

00:38:23.160 But what I really want to ask you about is can the U.S. and Europe effectively regulate tech companies at the same time that they're waging a trade war?

00:38:33.160 Or will Trump wind up inadvertently helping big tech in an effort to jam the EU?

00:38:40.160 I think they're kind of two separate things.

00:38:44.160 I think today, and I think in the Rose Garden at 4 o'clock we're going to find out, I'm not so sure a decision's been made.

00:38:50.160 I mean, I'm for reciprocity.

00:38:51.160 And I realize there's some legal issues with that because I want to expose to the world how we've been taken advantage of by the political class in the United States,

00:38:59.160 the globalists on Wall Street with these trade relationships with people that we pay for their defense that have hosed us for decade after decade after decade.

00:39:09.160 And that all rolls down to the little guy. So I'm for reciprocity and tough reciprocity.

00:39:14.160 I don't think that may happen.

00:39:16.160 I think there may be some tiered of 20 percent or some tiered system, which will be fine.

00:39:21.160 And they'll use the emergency measures to implement that.

00:39:23.160 But I think we have to think about and focus on bringing high value added manufacturing jobs back here to the United States and not assembly jobs.

00:39:34.160 You know, the guys at Ford bitch and moan all the time, well we manufacture all this and we're going to lose a billion dollars.

00:39:39.160 No, you don't. You assemble.

00:39:41.160 We need to bring high value added manufacturing jobs back here to the United States of America.

00:39:45.160 People say we're manufacturing more than ever and there's 400,000 unpaid jobs.

00:39:50.160 No. We assemble. We need to manufacture here.

00:39:53.160 We need to rebuild the greatness of our industrial base and we can do it.

00:39:57.160 At the same time we have to break up tech and give more access to capital entrepreneurs.

00:40:02.160 We can do all that. None of this, the Republicans when I first got into the politics here with Andrew Breitbart 12, 14 years ago,

00:40:09.160 this kind of Austrian School of Economics and all this, it was like they thought it was a natural property.

00:40:15.160 They thought this was like the second law of thermodynamics. It's not. It's all human agency.

00:40:21.160 We've proven this in this populist movement and getting people engaged and involved, the little guy who's engaged and involved now in politics.

00:40:27.160 So, we can do this and we can build a system that's closer to the American plan that Alexander Hamilton and the great founders of our country set up in the 19th century that we can recreate here and become an economic superpower.

00:40:41.160 A true economic superpower based upon people, not that what in the last six months the top 1% have accreted another $4.5 trillion of wealth to themselves, more than gone to the bottom 50%.

00:40:55.160 We have a capitalist system or a quote unquote capitalist system with no capitalist and that's what we have to change.

00:41:01.160 And we can change. All of this can be done. Don't think we have to take down the system and to do that you have to be relentless, you have to be prepared to be banned, to be debanked, to be shut out and to go to prison.

00:41:14.160 If you're not prepared to do that, you're not prepared to take on the system and win.

00:41:18.160 But getting back to the question of Europe, is Trump willing to let the EU crack down on American companies like Google, like Apple, or will he dig in his heels and want to retaliate?

00:41:29.160 I don't think it's going to be retaliation against that. I think it's going to be retaliation against manufacturing and the German car companies and all that.

00:41:37.160 So you don't think that bleeds over into tech policy to a degree, but I don't think it would be the driver.

00:41:43.160 We'll see also the big ticket item is on China. So right now you have a lot of the largest tech giants saying, you need to listen to us and favor us to compete with China.

00:41:58.160 I think if anyone gets distracted by that argument, we are in trouble.

00:42:03.160 But here's the horrible thing of that argument. Their failure in being given the Faustian pact of allowing them to become oligarchs, they failed in social media, clearly they're not as good, and they failed in AI.

00:42:18.160 They won a bailout, at least $500 billion, and the national ads will be turned over to them.

00:42:23.160 They also put the gun to your head and say, hey, you can't regulate us now because you need national champions because the Chinese Communist Party has a fleet around Taiwan.

00:42:33.160 That's a struggle we're going to have to go through, and we cannot agree to that. We can't agree to a bailout, we can't agree to turning the national labs over to them, the weapons labs for AI.

00:42:42.160 We certainly can't genuflect, as you're so rightly pointing out, about the issue with the Chinese Communist Party.

00:42:49.160 Roe, Democrats have been spondent by the results of the November election.

00:42:55.160 With the exception of last night's victory in Wisconsin, it's been a pretty rough ride.

00:43:02.160 A number of folks I talked to do see glimmers of hope on the antitrust front with the nomination of Gail Slater, other folks we've talked about.

00:43:10.160 What are your thoughts? I see you've talked a lot about this idea of a populist cross-party alliance.

00:43:16.160 What are your thoughts on that? How realistic do you think it is as you look ahead at the landscape over the next couple of years?

00:43:23.160 And as somebody who's worked under Trump, who's clashed with Elon, who thinks a lot about the policy issues at the heart of all this, are you hopeful?

00:43:33.160 Are you despondent? How should people think about that?

00:43:37.160 I mean, look, I'm happy that some of them are using the policy ideas developed by Lina Khan and others who really came and started and lit a match on all of this.

00:43:51.160 And if that is leading others to change good, I just want to go back to I still think it comes down to you saw anger across the board after the Wall Street bailouts.

00:44:02.160 Occupy Wall Street, Tea Party, the whole thing. Most people yesterday in Congress, every single Republican except nine of them voted to like raise overdraft fees for people.

00:44:15.160 There is maybe going to be agreement on certain places. But right now, those big oligarchs and big corporate royalty are still calling the shots in Washington. 0.91

00:44:29.160 Do you disagree with that? No, they own this city. If you try to go for them legally, you can't get a law firm because they hire the law firms, they have all the lobbyists, they have tremendous power in Capitol Hill.

00:44:39.160 That's why our movement is in this very early stages. And with President Trump at the top of the ticket, we can win national elections.

00:44:46.160 As it proved last night since we have low propensity voters, we built those low propensity voters.

00:44:50.160 I'm the first to admit we have a tough time otherwise and we have to build an apparatus that can do that.

00:44:55.160 But it's going to come from, I think it was only one in the Senate, Josh Hawley, I think is the only person that voted, only Republican.

00:45:01.160 So, we have a ton of work to do. I'm not sure so many of the elected officials in the House or the Senate are populist economic nationalists.

00:45:10.160 We're still run in a neoliberal, neocon mentality. But I think, I believe, and if you look at Stoller, you look at yourself, Neocon,

00:45:20.160 I believe since I would posit the Democratic Party and the official apparatus of it abandoned you guys who had some great ideas,

00:45:29.160 great ideas that we as populist nationalists are getting a whole team to hopefully implement at least some of them, that there's much more.

00:45:37.160 That fusion, to me, is more important than the fusion with the big tech bros.

00:45:42.160 But we have to deal with political reality as we have it right now.

00:45:45.160 But our party is only going to become more working class and more middle class. And I think that will tend to the fusion.

00:45:51.160 Our time is ticking down. But Trump also got rid of populists like Rohit.

00:45:57.160 So Rohit, you know, Steve's talked a lot about the positive idea of an alliance.

00:46:00.160 But just as a last question, what's the worst case scenario for you?

00:46:04.160 What do you what do you stay up at night worrying about?

00:46:06.160 True.

00:46:08.160 Note that we only have 90 seconds.

00:46:10.160 Well, to me, I'm actually I'm not crying and despondent.

00:46:15.160 All of us are working on how we figure out how to reclaim power and to actually make sure that this economy is working.

00:46:25.160 And I think that we'll see if anyone in this administration will do it.

00:46:32.160 I'm going to be watching on big mergers like Capital One Discover.

00:46:37.160 I'm going to be watching, like Steve is saying, the Google case, Facebook case.

00:46:42.160 There are some places where I'm going to be watching really closely to see.

00:46:46.160 But I really hope that this is the status quo is so broken and just we need to move and turn the page.

00:46:54.160 You know, Jake Sherman said yesterday, because I've been a huge proponent of this tax extension of the taxes,

00:47:01.160 that given where we are with cuts that have to be made are just not going to be made,

00:47:06.160 given the financial situation of having to refinance all this debt

00:47:10.160 and what the burden is putting on working class and middle class people,

00:47:13.160 that I don't see any scenario that we can extend the tax cuts for the upper bracket.

00:47:18.160 It can't happen.

00:47:19.160 And Jake Sherman went around yesterday, and I love Jake Sherman.

00:47:22.160 I think he's fantastic.

00:47:23.160 He said he couldn't find one representative in the Republican side.

00:47:26.160 Well, no, no.

00:47:27.160 They laughed at the idea.

00:47:28.160 They laughed at the idea.

00:47:29.160 Chip Roy came on War Room this morning and absolutely agreed with me,

00:47:33.160 and says behind the scenes there are a lot of people.

00:47:35.160 The litmus test for me, early on, besides all the great work the guys in the Justice Department are doing on Google

00:47:41.160 and other things like that, and the FTC, is this tax situation.

00:47:46.160 If the wealthy are not prepared to help us get control of spending, particularly defense spending,

00:47:52.160 and actually align defense spending with our hemispheric defense that President Trump has laid out,

00:47:57.160 the defense budget has to be cut, and I say this as a guy that spent eight years as a naval officer.

00:48:02.160 My daughter went to West Point.

00:48:03.160 I'm not a dove.

00:48:04.160 The defense budget's out of control.

00:48:06.160 It has to be cut right before you touch anything else, and we have to raise taxes.

00:48:12.160 We cannot extend the tax cuts for the wealthy.

00:48:15.160 Their taxes have to increase.

00:48:17.160 I'll bet you that room was 80% combination of Democrat and Libertarian,

00:48:23.160 people that normally wouldn't agree with a lot of stuff we talk about on a lot of the ideas we talk about on the show,

00:48:28.160 but there was a lot of support at the end of this, I would say overwhelmingly, in the room.

00:48:32.160 And that means people just need exposure to these ideas.

00:48:35.160 They need the exposure unfiltered, disintermediated from the mainstream media.

00:48:40.160 And that's what we hope to do.

00:48:41.160 That's why I'm doing more of these conferences to go into more on this type of media.

00:48:47.160 We're going to have a killer show tomorrow and get to a lot of the finances of what's happening this week,

00:48:52.160 particularly the talk about the capital markets revolt against President Trump.

00:48:55.160 I don't think anything can be farther from the truth, although we will get into it.

00:49:00.160 This reconciliation bill, I believe, needs to be broken down for people, and the war room posse is going to break it down.

00:49:06.160 We're going to break it down together because you're going to be at the ramparts on the fight of this

00:49:11.160 because nothing could be absolutely bigger.

00:49:13.160 Remember, the 25 to 30 folks minimum that wanted to vote against it basically said,

00:49:19.160 OK, we'll start the process.

00:49:21.160 We trust in the president.

00:49:22.160 We actually trust in leadership that they're not going to try to screw us.

00:49:25.160 So we're going to have to see.

00:49:26.160 We're going to check all of that.

00:49:27.160 10 a.m.

00:49:28.160 Eastern Daylight Time tomorrow.

00:49:30.160 We will be live, and I'll be here with a number of guests that will make it this Saturday show,

00:49:35.160 the great show that we always have, and my favorite show of the week.

00:49:38.160 It reminds me I was delivering papers and cutting grasses when I was a small kid.

00:49:42.160 Saturday was the workday with my dad and then getting the job done with my own little entrepreneurial side hustles.

00:49:49.160 OK, Birch Gold.

00:49:52.160 Make sure I want everybody over the weekend to study weekend to get up the learning curve.

00:49:57.160 Gold's been on fire setting all-time records every couple of days blowing through the greatest one-day move

00:50:02.160 in at least the modern history of gold was 100 bucks since people are monitoring this.

00:50:07.160 I mean, gold's not supposed to do that.

00:50:08.160 Gold is a hedge.

00:50:09.160 Gold's a store of value.

00:50:10.160 Why is it moving like this?

00:50:12.160 This is what you need to talk to Philip Patrick and the team over at Birch Gold.

00:50:16.160 So just take your phone out, go Bannon, B-A-N-N-O-N at 989898.

00:50:21.160 You get the free ultimate guide on investing gold.

00:50:25.160 More importantly, you get a relationship with Philip Patrick's team, and that's what you need.

00:50:30.160 Go there today and just remember, just get physical gold.

00:50:32.160 OK, we're going to leave you with the right stuff.

00:50:36.160 I love ending with the song because it gets you jacked up.

00:50:39.160 So beautiful.

00:50:40.160 Off a classic book by Tom Wolf, an incredible movie by Philip Kaufman.

00:50:45.160 I think it's a classic.

00:50:47.160 Didn't get appreciated at the time, although got nominated for seven Academy Awards.

00:50:50.160 The one they came away with, I think it came with a couple, but best score, best music.

00:50:54.160 And that was by Bill Conti.

00:50:56.160 That's what you're going out.

00:50:57.160 The right stuff.

00:50:58.160 We leave you with the right stuff.

00:51:00.160 We will see you back in the War Room tomorrow morning, Saturday at 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

00:51:06.160 See you then.

00:51:07.160 Bye.

00:51:08.160 Bye.

00:51:37.160 Bye.

00:51:38.160 Bye.

00:52:07.160 Health isn't just a personal issue.

00:52:28.160 It's a family issue, a community issue.

00:52:30.160 We're living in unpredictable times.

00:52:32.160 Supply chains can break down.

00:52:34.160 Hospitals can get overwhelmed.

00:52:35.160 And let's not even start on the natural disasters.

00:52:38.160 These aren't hypotheticals.

00:52:39.160 They're happening.

00:52:40.160 You see it here in the War Room and we all know it.

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Bannon's War Room - April 12, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 'ARE TECHNO-OPTIMISM AND POPULISM INCOMPATIBLE？'

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