Based Camp - An Anthropology of American Hillbillies： The Horror Stories Might Have a Point

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. Today's conversation is one I have been excitedly digging into.

00:00:06.260 We are going to discuss the history of the greater Appalachian cultural tradition or the

00:00:12.520 backwoods cultural tradition in the United States. This is the tradition that you and I hail from

00:00:18.480 predominantly. Obviously, everyone's a mix of a number of traditions. They're also heavily from

00:00:22.060 the Puritan tradition, and you're partially Jewish as well, but the main one is the greater

00:00:26.260 Appalachian tradition. The reason why it's important to understand this tradition is because this is

00:00:31.420 the tradition that makes up the core of the MAGA movement and Trump's voter base. American sentiment

00:00:38.000 shifting from the cavalier cultural tradition of the Deep South to the greater Appalachian cultural

00:00:42.520 tradition, shifting from an aristocratic to an anti-aristocratic, anti-elitist tradition

00:00:47.220 represents a big change in American conservative politics. There's a reason to understand it,

00:00:51.460 but I'm going to be exploring it with the lens of it's stereotype in 80s horror of like inbred

00:00:59.860 backwoods murderers who are going to like hunt down people and and murder them. She's just human.

00:01:06.660 Why don't you go over there and talk to her? Whatever you say, just smile and laugh. It shows confidence.

00:01:12.960 You guys, uh, going camping?

00:01:29.360 Because as you will see, when we go into more about this tradition from their, from their own stories,

00:01:37.280 yeah, that may not have just been a negative stereotype. Oh boy. That's reminds me where this

00:01:46.680 first came up for me is I was having a laugh at the Mormons because, you know, in Utah, they had the 1.00

00:01:52.240 highest rates of searches for polyamory on Google Trends. And then after having a laugh at them, I was

00:01:56.620 like, well, I should at least check my own cultural group's negative stereotypes. You know, that, that,

00:02:01.800 that's certainly not going to be a closet full of skeletons. And it's like for an S and M. 1.00

00:02:09.360 Sorry. I can't forget incest as well. And, and, and all of the other like horror. Yeah. Like it makes

00:02:15.760 I mean, polyamory, if anything, is just about social complication, hierarchy, bureaucracy, contract.

00:02:21.620 Then they have like your culture, our culture, which is just savagery. Yeah. Okay. So first I want to go

00:02:30.860 into Jack stories as a sort of cultural explanation. So this culture passes its traditions down through

00:02:38.340 oral stories with the most common type of these stories being the Jack stories. Although after

00:02:44.180 this, we're going to explore their horror stories as a way to understand them as well. You might be

00:02:50.060 familiar with one Jack story, which is Jack and the Beanstalk, but it comes from like a wider tradition

00:02:54.380 of stories. In Jack stories, there is generally a chain of events, a, a, a poor and lazy, but otherwise

00:03:03.860 quick witted boy stumbles upon either a giant or somebody with institutional power, like a rich man,

00:03:13.420 or somebody who represents like government, like a sheriff. He then tricks or otherwise torments

00:03:21.080 that person and has great glee at doing this. He then tricks and murders that person. He then 0.90

00:03:29.340 takes all their stuff. You know, you're, you're very aspirational, Malcolm. I mean, this is

00:03:36.780 fundamentally what happens in Jack and the Giant Beanstalk. It is. Yeah. It always kind of stat

00:03:42.320 weirdly with me. It's, it's one of those stories though. I think there's a lot of stories that you

00:03:45.800 get told as a kid where you don't really get the impression that there is a good guy or a bad guy.

00:03:51.020 And I think this concept of good guys and bad guys needing to be pervasive in stories is,

00:03:55.980 you know, unnecessary. You're clearly misunderstanding the cultural context.

00:04:00.580 Oh, because he's the good guy. He's the clear guy. He is unmitigatedly the hero.

00:04:04.000 And he's not just the hero. These stories are told to teach children values, to teach children how

00:04:13.180 they are supposed to interact with the world. You even commented on how the values of these stories,

00:04:18.840 you have heard me say to our kids in passing. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, one of Malcolm's

00:04:24.100 constant rules was it's okay to punch anyone larger than you. You can never punch anyone who's

00:04:30.520 weaker or smaller than you. Yeah. And I told this to our kids, you know, like she knows this because

00:04:34.860 like the kids are always allowed to punch their older siblings and me, but they are not allowed to

00:04:39.000 aggressively punch younger siblings. And this is just part of this cultural tradition, right?

00:04:43.720 Jack is always up against a giant or a very wealthy person or a sheriff. He represents small

00:04:50.900 diminutive underdogness. If I'm going to go over some, so, so like I mentioned Jack of the Giant

00:04:55.840 Beanstalk. If you're not familiar with that story, he goes out, he goes to a market and buys beans.

00:05:02.540 What are magic beans was, was the cow that he's supposed to sell instead of doing something

00:05:07.560 diligent with it. So he's very intentionally not a diligent person. I think he was supposed

00:05:12.060 to just sell the cow for money so the family could buy food. And what does he do? He buys

00:05:15.660 magic beans. And the, and the mom gets mad and throws the beans in the yard and they draw a giant 0.70

00:05:20.960 beanstalk. And then Jack climbs up the beanstalk and he finds a giant. Generally in the original

00:05:26.420 stories, the giant has done nothing wrong. Minding his own business, just living up in the sky.

00:05:31.240 Jack then murders the giant by tricking him. He takes the giant's, you know,

00:05:35.700 hand that can lay golden eggs and a few other items. And they live like wealthy people for the

00:05:40.340 rest of their life. You know, the, the value here is goof off, trick people more powerful than you

00:05:45.960 outsiders. Don't follow instructions. Disregard your mother's orders. 1.00

00:05:50.480 If you go to Jack and the Giant's new ground, Jack from a poor mound family seeks out to seek his 1.00

00:05:56.160 fortune. He stumbled upon a giant's new ground, cleared land and is captured. So essentially he finds

00:06:01.480 a giant's farm plan and is captured. The giant plans to eat him, but Jack tricks him pretending

00:06:06.360 to be stronger, squeezing water from a rock, actually a wet sponge. Impressed, the giant spares

00:06:11.660 Jack and gives him tasks. Jack outsmarts the giant in each, eventually stealing his treasure and killing

00:06:17.000 him by luring him into a trap, e.g. a pit or collapsing brick. Jack real home rich. But the point I'm making

00:06:23.920 if you study these Jack tales from the perspective of the villains in this Appalachian horror arc,

00:06:31.360 Jack is behaving in a way that aligns with these villains, right? He is, I remember I, I talked to an

00:06:40.860 AI about this and it was like, well, you know, in, in Jack's not doing it maliciously. And I'm like,

00:06:47.560 he's doing it maliciously, but from the giant's perspective, it's pretty effing malicious.

00:06:52.980 It's pretty sure that trespassing and theft and murder are in the, yeah. In the one where he

00:06:59.620 gets back at his stepmom, you know, he gives her things that like make her fart uncontrollably and

00:07:04.220 he laughs at her. So it's often like tormenting people and laughing at them, which is what you

00:07:08.940 see in these scary horror arcs is the people from the woods are like, oh, there is these out-of-towners

00:07:14.160 that would, from their perspective, have institutional power over them. Therefore justifying often,

00:07:19.840 if you, if you watch an arc like Deliverance or something, like they believe that they were

00:07:24.120 slighted, that the out-of-towners thought they were better than them. And so then they use this

00:07:28.340 as an excuse to say, well, now we can kill them and take their stuff. I mean, that's what always 0.98

00:07:34.260 happens in the stories, right? You know, and, and torment them while doing it. And this form of,

00:07:39.620 of, of, of sort of tormenting, like to get an idea of how violent this culture was historically,

00:07:43.680 we've talked before, a common practice in it was to file your nails down for a style of combat

00:07:49.600 called rough and tumble, where the goal was to maximally disfigure your opponent, ideally gouging

00:07:54.220 out their eyeballs. And this is like well-documented that this was something that happened frequently

00:07:59.400 to accounts of bar floors covered in eyeballs after one particularly big fight, you know,

00:08:06.380 very, very violent. If you look at our president that came from this, you know, you're looking at

00:08:10.740 like Andrew Jackson, who famously would just threaten anyone to duels, like over,

00:08:17.100 over fairly trivial things. Did he do that as president ever? I think he did that to the,

00:08:22.740 I think the Dickinson guy, he did that to while president, but. Charles Dickinson.

00:08:26.800 Not to be with Charles Dickinson, by the way. In his defense, in his defense, the other guy

00:08:32.720 had called his wife a bigamist, which she technically was, but she didn't know.

00:08:37.720 No. Her other husband had not gotten their marriage properly annulled before her marriage

00:08:42.880 to Jackson. And so he just brought him to a jewel and shot him. But the point being is it's with a

00:08:47.740 very violent cultural group to begin with. And I think that jack tales are particularly 1.00

00:08:53.600 interesting to study because they always start, you know, with the, the hero being this kid in

00:09:04.160 poverty, who is otherwise lazy and wins through trickery and murder. And you don't see this. You 0.65

00:09:11.800 see this in some other cultural traditions, but you're not going to have like a chain of

00:09:14.780 Jewish stories about like how to be a good Jew. And the stories involve the Jew tricking and 1.00

00:09:21.080 murdering somebody, right? Like, you know, you don't see like a chain of, you know, I just had,

00:09:26.220 I haven't heard of like a train of like Italian stories with similar themes or something like that.

00:09:30.620 This is pretty unique to this cultural region, but the stories have to be pretty heavily sanitized

00:09:36.620 to be retold in, in the modern context.

00:09:40.600 If you were hearing this and you were wondering how is the Jack archetype different from a trickster

00:09:46.140 God from other religions, because this is a common art within cultures. It's a concept of a trickster 0.97

00:09:51.100 deity or God or something like that. He is different in many, many ways from any other trickster

00:09:56.620 entity that exists. The most glaring is that he is always unmitigatedly the hero of the story and

00:10:05.720 also cruel. If you look at other trickster entities like a Loki or something like that, or a coyote,

00:10:13.800 they are morally ambiguous characters. They are not very obviously the hero and the core hero of every

00:10:22.200 narrative that they're in. Later, we're going to point out that Bugs Bunny was likely inspired by

00:10:28.000 the Jack archetype given where Tex Ava grew up. And this gives you an example, like Bugs Bunny is

00:10:33.680 cruel and capricious, but also always unmitigatedly the hero. The other thing that is, when you contrast

00:10:42.160 it with other archetypes, even Loki, who is a bad guy within his own framing, is rarely as

00:10:51.160 mean-spirited as the Jack archetype, where you have like, Bugs Bunny is another good example of this.

00:10:59.000 Loki is almost never as actually malicious as Bugs Bunny is within his own stories. The other thing

00:11:07.160 about the Jack archetype is he has no supernatural powers, which is uncommon for the trickster

00:11:14.880 archetype. He always is just purely operating off of what the subgenius would call slack.

00:11:22.520 For people of different cultural backgrounds, I actually think Bugs Bunny is a very easy way to

00:11:26.340 understand Jack stories. If you're like, how could a character both be unmitigatedly the hero of a

00:11:32.740 story, but also incredibly cruel, predominantly being cruel to others because he thinks it's

00:11:41.180 hilarious, Bugs Bunny will explain that to you. Bugs Bunny is just a one-for-one Jack archetype.

00:11:47.420 But it gets more interesting than that because you also find a really interesting nature to the

00:11:54.140 horror stories that come from this region. Any thoughts before I go further?

00:11:57.680 I just feel so ambivalent about it. Because it's not exactly pro-social behavior.

00:12:04.800 You wouldn't really, I don't know, like, will this incredibly vital societies to flourish

00:12:09.680 when, you know, there's just this, like, free, it's free range on, or sorry, what is it? Open,

00:12:17.820 sorry, when it's open season on people who are seen as being more successful or resourced than you?

00:12:24.060 Yeah, these regions never did become very wealthy, historically speaking.

00:12:29.800 I mean, there was a reason for that, you know, a cultural reason, but they've been

00:12:36.360 incredibly resistant to the urban monoculture, which is one reason why it's so important to

00:12:41.160 study them. And with the modern times, I mean, yes, they have a much higher murder rate than

00:12:45.560 surrounding regions when you control for the presence of cities. But, you know, things are

00:12:49.680 basically, you know, copacetic enough that you don't see this kind of, you know, regular

00:12:55.080 murdering happen anymore. The more aggressive practices, they don't rip out eyeballs anymore. 0.98

00:13:01.080 I'd never done that personally. I was going over, like, wedding practices, and one of the wedding

00:13:05.060 practices that they had is the women would take a cat and put it in the middle of, like, a quilt, 1.00

00:13:10.100 and they all yank on the corner of the kilt to launch the cat up in the air. And then whoever the

00:13:15.380 cat ran by when trying to escape is who was going to get married, Dex.

00:13:18.360 Oh, at least they didn't have to try to catch the cat.

00:13:22.940 Yeah.

00:13:23.600 And so badly.

00:13:25.200 You don't do that anymore, but they do still, I mentioned in the episode on dating culture

00:13:29.900 within this region, but value mates based on martial prowess and ability to project property.

00:13:36.240 You know, if you go back to, like, David Bowie, there was, sorry, what am I thinking of?

00:13:40.780 He was the congressman, right? Daniel Boone, and he was talking about his wife, you know,

00:13:46.320 about, you know, somebody was commenting on, like, how good she was, and they're like, oh,

00:13:50.180 she could protect the whole property with a rifle, you know? She said, Scott, and this has been a

00:13:56.100 historic thing. It's not just in modern times, like, girls with guns is, like, a thing for this

00:14:00.180 culture, or girls fighting is a thing for this culture. You know, you have the modern mud wrestling 1.00

00:14:04.920 of this culture, but people, even going back to Albion Seed, said that the women were uniquely 1.00

00:14:09.900 valued for how rough and tumble they were and their level of fortitude. So this is a big historic

00:14:18.040 part of this culture, as well as gender egalitarian relationships, which is funny. A reporter was like, 0.92

00:14:23.500 well, your relationship's uniquely gender egalitarian. Like, is that, like, not traditional? And I go,

00:14:28.600 well, it's traditional for people where I'm from, you know, because if you're not, if you treat your 0.64

00:14:33.120 wife too poorly, she'll just murder you. You know, that's not something you do. But I want to

00:14:37.320 hear, go into horror stories from this region, because I think they also show...

00:14:41.600 So the hero stories sound like horror stories. What is the difference?

00:14:46.660 Well, the difference is Jack's the good guy.

00:14:49.360 Oh, okay. So it's a horror story if our protagonist loses.

00:14:56.780 You'll get why the horror stories are horror stories. We'll go into horror stories, and you'll be

00:15:01.280 like, oh, those are horror stories, you know. So to go to the horror stories, we'll start with the

00:15:07.500 Witch of Booger Hole. In Clay County, West Virginia, a young bride, Ira, moves to Booger Hole, a dense

00:15:13.760 forest. Locals warn of Grandma Thorn, a witch blamed for missing animals. Ira's skeptic husband

00:15:19.680 dismisses it, but animals vanish, and Ira hears scratching in the night. Her dog is found dead,

00:15:25.020 throat torn. Confronting the witch, Ira sees a crackling figure vanish. Some say,

00:15:31.280 Ira's husband dies, and she flees. Other is just, she's murdered. The next is the bell witch. 0.99

00:15:39.780 I just have to note that, like, what was it, Booger Creek, that this was something that they

00:15:43.620 pointed out in Albion Seed about backwards naming conventions of areas, that they would be named

00:15:48.840 things like... That were gross and, like, local. Yeah, like, like, shit valley and, like, you know, 0.98

00:15:54.640 under the, like, all sorts of very lewd names for things. 0.93

00:15:58.040 Well, and these people see this, but talked about how they see vulgarity as authenticating

00:16:02.620 honesty, and sort of, like, that you're not attempting to fit in with the elite, 0.99

00:16:06.980 which is why they don't care about, like, the grab-em-in-the-pussy thing, or, like, the other 0.98

00:16:10.160 vulgar things that Trump does, because that's very much in their culture how you signal, 0.99

00:16:14.000 you know, I'm within the in-group. Like, like, hey, let's hang out. I'm not, I don't think I'm

00:16:18.140 better than you. That is, like, the number one most important thing to this culture, and it's why Trump

00:16:22.140 has done really well with him, and it's why old Republicans didn't do as well with him,

00:16:26.100 because they acted like they thought they were better than them and were, like, trying to enforce

00:16:29.820 cultural norms on them, and this group is very much, don't tell me what to do or how to live my

00:16:34.860 life, you know, above all else. They do have cultural pride, and they do have a degree of

00:16:40.660 cultural norm, but that norm is not pushed through shame or, like, this is vulgar, don't do it, etc.

00:16:46.760 So, in Robertson County, Tennessee, the Bell family is fermented by a witch, possibly cat 0.93

00:16:52.480 Balls, wrung by John Ball. Starting with noises and animal disguises, it escalates into slapping,

00:16:58.240 pinching, and poisoning. John, who dies, it taunts his daughter, Betsy, forcing her to break her

00:17:04.360 engagement. The witch's cave remains haunted. The witch of Polygenti, on Hawks Nest Mountain,

00:17:10.480 West Virginia, Polygenti is a rumored witch, lives with a demonic black cat blamed for crop 1.00

00:17:15.640 failures, missing children. She's confronted by men who find her cabin empty, the cat screeching,

00:17:20.480 fleeing. They hear her laughter and see her shadow. And then there's Talipo, which is actually one I

00:17:24.760 remember from my own childhood, and I've read to our kids because I got the book because I remembered

00:17:28.520 and I wanted to get it back, and I remember reading the book. I was like, whoa, so the guy just

00:17:31.520 dies in the end? So, a hunter shoots the tail off a strange creature and eats it. At night, it scratches

00:17:37.320 his cabin, chanting, Talipo, Talipo, I want my Talipo. It returns to Nightly. First, it eats his dogs,

00:17:42.360 by the way. Nightly, finally breaking in to rip him apart. Then you have Rawhead and Bloody Bones. 0.99

00:17:48.760 This is in Tennessee and North Carolina. Rawhead is a skinless, bloody creature with a skull-like

00:17:53.100 head hiding in dark places. A hunter in Forbidden Hollows hears Rawhead and Bloody Bones is coming and

00:17:58.060 is chased, his dog torn apart. This is a link to a witch's courage. This is a Cherokee one, so we won't 1.00

00:18:04.620 go to that one. The point being, with all of these traditions, is that you might notice something

00:18:11.520 really interesting about them for local horror stories. Okay. Which is, in none of them, is the

00:18:18.620 witch ever killed or faces any repercussions for her action. Right. The malevolent thing remains at large.

00:18:27.300 The malevolent thing wins. In many ways, the victim of the story is made out to be the bad guy because

00:18:34.780 they did something they were warned against. Like, don't hef with that old woman. Don't, you know, 1.00

00:18:39.920 show her a lack of respect. Don't, whatever. But they do, and then they are mercilessly, like,

00:18:45.940 their kids are tortured, they're tortured, their animals are killed. Like, it is bad, okay?

00:18:53.500 The second, which makes it really different if you do a cross-cultural analysis of these with

00:18:59.880 other cultures, is the villain feels much more Lovecraftian in the way that there just is no

00:19:08.700 escape from the quote-unquote witch or talipo or anything like that. Like, the moment you are there,

00:19:17.080 it is over. And there is no limitations on their powers. They are, in many ways, all powerful and

00:19:24.600 totally evil. So if you contrast this with other traditions, in European stories, the witch one

00:19:31.020 often dies at the end, consider, like, Hansel and Gretel or something like that. Or is it least

00:19:35.480 trickable? Like, Baba Yaga is powerful, but Baba Yaga is trickable as well. She is operating on rules.

00:19:42.640 If you go to, like, East Asian witches and stuff, they may win, but they have some restrictions. Like, 0.72

00:19:48.300 they have to hop or they're only interested in, like, one particular thing. Like,

00:19:52.900 they don't have a broad interest in just tormenting you, your animals, and your children to death.

00:19:58.660 They're more, like, specifically interested in some domain or with some sort of violation.

00:20:04.140 You look at African culture and there's usually, like, a hex or something you could do to get out 1.00

00:20:10.180 of it. An example of, like, a counter to this is the death omen and token tradition. So in West

00:20:15.600 Virginia and Kentucky, omens like three knots, white owls, or banshee-like walls predict death.

00:20:22.120 A Harlan County woman hears a whale and sees a shadow. Her husband dies in a mine collapse.

00:20:27.540 Rituals fail to stop the omens. So there's, like, within these traditions, the moment you've seen the

00:20:34.020 bad thing or you've done the bad thing, your fate is completely sealed. And blame is often shifted to

00:20:40.580 the individual who's dying. Much like, well, you just should have known not to mess with this person.

00:20:45.760 Which is really fascinating to me when I contrast this with other traditions.

00:20:51.540 I think one thing you also see with jack tales and these traditions is you can see how many tropes

00:20:56.740 that arose in American media were influenced by these traditions more than, like, European traditions

00:21:03.900 and stuff like that.

00:21:05.240 Do you think so?

00:21:05.840 Yeah, so if you think about the classic Looney Tunes-like cartoon character, your Bugs Bunny

00:21:12.880 and stuff like that, Bugs Bunny is clearly modeled after Jack, for example.

00:21:18.120 You're right. Yeah, no. Yeah, he's very irreverent, very... He's got a lot of slack,

00:21:24.480 if we were to use the Church of the Subgenius to describe him.

00:21:27.620 And these were written by Tex Avery. Where did Tex Avery grow up? But Dallas, Texas, which is part

00:21:32.700 of, if you look at math to the regions where I grew up as well, part of the greater Appalachian

00:21:35.580 cultural region. Even though it's not in the Appalachians, it was this culture that was,

00:21:38.900 it was the dominant culture there. So he would have grown up on these stories and then adopted

00:21:43.060 a character like, you know, Jack into a character like Bugs Bunny, who is lazy, but cunning and

00:21:52.420 constantly tormenting people who he would see as coming after him, like hunters and stuff like

00:21:57.600 that, right? Like people who enter his territory. If you grew up with the character of Bugs Bunny,

00:22:02.200 I think the character of Jack and the parts of him where I'm like, well, yes, the people who he

00:22:07.860 murders often did something to warrant it, but he wouldn't care if they did something to warrant it.

00:22:15.580 You would understand this attitude if you grew up watching Bugs Bunny. Bugs Bunny often torments

00:22:21.020 people who are hunting him or something, but that isn't why he's tormenting them. It's just because

00:22:26.320 they're in his territory or around him. He would think nothing about tormenting somebody who had

00:22:32.260 done nothing to him. Often doing things to them that would kill them in any other circumstance.

00:22:39.040 And also note the sort of environment of Bugs Bunny, how it mirrors the environment that these

00:22:43.700 people would have had, you know, hunters, woods, rabbits, ducks, everything.

00:22:48.860 Oh, the scenarios. I don't know. I mean, there are also opera houses, but I generally see you here.

00:22:54.480 And I mean, my theory is that this has to be a result of clan-based culture and trying to teach

00:23:00.360 people that like, no, actually, if you go to those people who we say are going to hurt you,

00:23:03.760 you will die. 0.98

00:23:04.840 You will. 0.99

00:23:05.460 There's no going to die.

00:23:06.660 It will be your fault.

00:23:08.160 Right.

00:23:08.220 And this is also important with clan-based culture when you have things like blood feuds that can

00:23:12.600 start, you know, you, you need some way. And it's like, well, you shouldn't have talked with

00:23:15.920 them. We told you they'd kill you. 0.99

00:23:17.460 Yeah. 0.99

00:23:17.660 You know, because they, they really will.

00:23:19.700 They hold grudges.

00:23:21.480 Yes. Which, which I think is, you know, you can see, and we make up stories even organically for

00:23:26.440 our kids all the time that are teach them things, you know, like, oh, you know, they believe that

00:23:30.680 we have witches that live, you know, at the swamp by our house. And I'm like, oh, that's why

00:23:34.820 witches live in swamps. I don't want my kids going in the swamp. Right. Yeah. 0.96

00:23:39.080 You know, I mean, I think a lot of that kind of a relapse of Grimm's fairy tales where, you know,

00:23:43.240 they were told in regions where if your kids go out at night that they might actually be eaten by

00:23:47.420 wolves. You know, it made sense to warn them of monsters in the forest and stuff, because

00:23:51.360 there was stuff out there that would legit kill you. So we still do that with our own kids. We're

00:23:57.940 like, yeah, there's monsters outside at night.

00:23:59.960 If you look at 80s horror movies or older horror genres in the United States, and you look at the

00:24:04.580 ways that they are structured. The other interesting thing that comes from this cultural

00:24:08.340 tradition is the villain that there is absolutely no way to escape, that you will eventually die,

00:24:15.660 which is not seen in many other traditions. If we were basing these off of like European witches

00:24:22.520 and stuff like that, you'd have much more of a, well, they're scary, but you can trick them. Like,

00:24:28.420 here's what you do. And we do have some horror movies that are structured that way. But the horror

00:24:33.320 movies that are influenced by this tradition are the ones where, no, you really, like, don't mess

00:24:38.340 with it. Don't begin to mess with it. If you do, it's over for you. Right. Which is, it's pretty

00:24:43.800 interesting to see that influence our culture. So I thought that was pretty cool. The other thing I

00:24:49.580 note about these stories is they are much, like, more existentially scary than even the raw, unedited

00:24:57.120 for kids versions of the European stories where it was like Baba Yaga. You'll have, like, a house with

00:25:02.520 chicken legs and, like, a woman who conceptually is, like, cannibalistic or something, but otherwise 1.00

00:25:08.740 it's an old woman. Whereas with, like, bloody bones, you have a person without skin coming 1.00

00:25:14.920 to get you. That's just way more horrific.

00:25:19.680 No, if you look at, I was looking at other traditions, like Hansel and Gretel, comparing

00:25:24.600 it to that, Baba Yaga, where, you know, you can trick them. Even the witch in Snow White,

00:25:29.700 you know, defeatable, right? Like, not like these characters.

00:25:33.480 I feel like that in Snow White, it gets so muddled that, yeah, there's a lot of the classic

00:25:40.000 stories kind of end with this deus ex machina of some hero doing the thing, which, I don't

00:25:46.240 know, those are uninspired. And these are more interesting in that the villains are just

00:25:51.240 dangerous things that exist in the world and you should know about them. I kind of like

00:25:54.500 it more.

00:25:55.520 Well, no, I remember the Tally Post story sequels me so much as a kid because it felt so different

00:26:00.780 from other stories I had heard as a kid. You know, it starts with the guy's dogs being

00:26:04.680 killed, which I don't remember seeing in any other illustrated children's book that had

00:26:08.120 ever been read to me. Like, that as a kid, I remember, was quite shocking. I was like,

00:26:12.440 wait, his dog dies? And then, I hadn't even remembered this until I read it as an adult,

00:26:16.440 and I was like, oh, and he dies? It's very much framed as a, the world is closing in on

00:26:21.760 this guy. The moment he makes a mistake, everything's over from that point on. And that was really

00:26:29.220 shocking to me as a children's story. But I think it's an important value, and I can see

00:26:34.320 why a culture like this would teach it.

00:26:36.340 Now, we're going to talk about some other fun traditions from this region. One was

00:26:40.180 wedding spoons, where the guys couldn't afford rings. They would carve these really beautiful

00:26:46.420 spoons to show off their carpentry skills.

00:26:49.680 This reminds me of the human version of what emperor penguins do. It's emperor penguins,

00:26:53.600 right, where they find a really, really pretty rock, and they work really hard to get it,

00:26:57.080 and then they give it to their chosen mate. And this idea of, like, working really hard to make

00:27:01.320 a nice spoon is so romantic. And I looked up the spoons, and they're very impressive. I would be

00:27:06.960 impressed.

00:27:08.200 You're like, dang, that's a nice spoon.

00:27:10.220 Yeah, I don't know how I would go about whittling that. That would take, and they're

00:27:13.460 nice and polished, beautiful, intricate shapes, personalized to, in many cases, I imagine the

00:27:19.000 aesthetics and interests and values of the recipient. Just beautiful. Really nice. I wonder if,

00:27:23.340 they were probably never used, but it'd be so cute if women, you know, at a fancy dinner, 1.00

00:27:28.160 would just pull it out and, you know, my spoon. I don't know if this was still in the age when

00:27:33.520 you had to bring your own utensils to everything. I think it was. This would have been, I mean,

00:27:37.900 you know, these people didn't have much. A spoon was, like, a major thing to have in this period.

00:27:42.920 Yeah, I mean, I wonder why they didn't do knives instead, because I feel like that would be,

00:27:46.360 the spoons do look a little bit delicate and precious, and a good knife would, you know,

00:27:51.200 probably last longer, but whatever. Yes, I mean, as an understanding of, like,

00:27:58.160 being from this tradition, when I met Simone, one of the first things she did, like, when courting me,

00:28:04.980 was showing me her knife collection. You know, that is, from another culture that would be seen

00:28:09.100 as incredibly dense for a woman to do, trying to get a guy to like her. Dense? 1.00

00:28:14.440 Look at what types I have. Well, you know, these are not, not like cooking knives. They're, like,

00:28:20.120 big collection of, like, pink and stuff like that, hunting knife. Like, you were clearly, like,

00:28:25.400 these are girly, but what's conveyed by that? They're all pink. But I'm in a martial tradition,

00:28:31.040 right? Like, I, I am from a, and you told me, you remember, like, growing up, your, your family

00:28:35.860 would always say, well, smiths do this, and smiths do that. Yeah, smiths have guns, smiths have

00:28:40.360 knives. Like, that was what we, that's what, that is what distinguished us. It wasn't some code of

00:28:44.980 honor or anything. It was. But I also remember, like, family talking about this a lot growing up,

00:28:49.400 is they'd always say, well, Collinses do this, and Collinses do that. I mean, I think this is a

00:28:53.720 normal thing for clan-based cultures. I think if you're from a non-clan-based culture, what you

00:28:58.460 would say is, Jews do this, or Jews do that, or Mormons do this, or Mormons do that. But the

00:29:03.260 central unit of identity is seen as the extended family network, which is why your cultural values

00:29:09.360 are framed to you along the lines of, well, you're a Collins, so you do X, or you're a smith, so you do

00:29:13.680 X. Like, that's. I think it's more powerful because it creates a greater sense of personal

00:29:17.560 responsibility. If I, as a Mormon, were to behave irresponsibly, I mean, I know that Mormons who 1.00

00:29:23.660 do so feel immense amounts of shame if they're really devout, but I still feel like, you know,

00:29:27.980 maybe no one will notice. You know, I'm just a drop in the giant Mormon bucket, whereas, you know, 0.99

00:29:32.700 if you are letting your family down, the foundations will crack, and you know it.

00:29:38.000 It can't do without your help.

00:29:40.100 In another episode, we used to actually, like our parents, you should check it out. It's a great

00:29:43.120 episode because I go over my great-great-great-grandfather's, like, memoirs and everything,

00:29:46.740 and the end of it, he lists everyone he knows who's descended from our family and then points

00:29:52.960 out that there is not a degree of criminality among them. But, you know, they're very excited

00:29:57.480 that they're not criminals. They're honest, hard-working men, which is funny because you

00:30:02.580 see a divergence from this type of culture. But if you look even, like, the generation before him,

00:30:11.120 when they were doing the anti-Confederates, because they organized a bunch of anti-Confederate

00:30:14.480 factions called the Jayhawks in Texas. And if you even look at the story of how he saved

00:30:20.440 the other Jayhawks who were in the Confederate prison, is that he went to the prison and he

00:30:25.960 gave them all, the guards, all liquor, and, like, got them dancing and partying. And he did a jig

00:30:31.360 that was so transfixing, that it was seen as, like, a Scottish jig, that they didn't notice while all

00:30:36.200 the prisoners were being freed.

00:30:38.160 Very jack-tails. That's an extremely jack-tails kind of scenario.

00:30:41.880 Yes. Like, I feel like someone who grew up reading the jack-tails would think that's a 1.00

00:30:46.340 viable solution. I'll get them drunk and do a jig. 1.00

00:30:49.760 I'll get them drunk and do a jig and then we'll free everyone.

00:30:52.600 I don't think he would have come up with that had he not been raised in that tradition.

00:30:56.340 No, very few other people would have thought, okay, I see the camp where all my friends are

00:31:02.880 being held. What do I do? Do I go at night or do I, the Pirates of the Caribbean style,

00:31:08.780 walk out with, like, booze in my hands? They'd be like, 11.

00:31:12.600 Oh, my goodness.

00:31:13.500 I mean, that's very much, like, what Bug Bunny would do, right? Like, it's very much like,

00:31:17.520 I'm going to be mad. It's very much what you or I would do. You know, we've been talking recently

00:31:21.660 where we applied for the Survival and Flourishing Fund for another grant from them.

00:31:25.200 And we're going to try to fix AI meme layer threads by building sort of one to supersede

00:31:33.400 them within the AI meme layer. Like, I argued, we'll build our own SAWGOS to fight their SAWGOS.

00:31:39.600 And of course, a normal AI safety person is going to be like, wait, you can't just

00:31:42.400 build the big evil AI to protect us from the big evil AI. That's an insanely bold thing to do.

00:31:49.280 Like, you should try, let's just try to limit the other AIs. It's like, no, you can't do that.

00:31:53.440 You can't chain, you know, Chargothicon, because Chargothicon is always going to win 1.00

00:32:00.040 at the end of the day. Humans aren't meant to beat him.

00:32:02.480 Yes, you're like, let's just create one first and hope that we can make it more aligned.

00:32:06.220 And probably if they do give you any funding, it will be because they know that if you don't

00:32:11.700 get funding, you won't do any safety protocols. Because it's true, you won't do any safety

00:32:16.180 protocols if you don't get funding.

00:32:17.120 I don't see the point. We're working a short timeline here, people.

00:32:20.180 But then the other, I don't mean this as a threat. It's just like what I see

00:32:23.420 is practical and what I have the money.

00:32:24.620 Well, and also, yeah, like we literally don't have the money for it. So we can't do it.

00:32:28.240 But we're going to do it anyway.

00:32:30.020 I mean, if you look at even the way that I have approached pro-natalism in media and stuff like

00:32:35.240 this, it has been very Jack Talesy. It has been very, you know, sort of the giant, all the media

00:32:41.460 establishment, just baiting them into like making a fool of themselves and helping further spread the

00:32:47.700 message and further grow the movement. And they fall on their faces and they get back up and they 0.70

00:32:52.300 get angrier and they run again and they're tricked again. And I'm just here having a laugh at the

00:32:57.240 whole situation. The entire way that we have worked on this has been very much like you would

00:33:03.940 see in one of these stories, which I think it's interesting. It shows, you know, how tied to your

00:33:09.420 cultural heritage you are. But also I think where people may underestimate people from sort of these

00:33:18.340 cultural groups because they otherwise look nerdy. They don't see that this is a cultural group that

00:33:24.380 is one bred for an extremely high amount of aggression and two may feel that like me, for

00:33:31.880 example, personally, I got in fistfights constantly as a kid. Coming from this cultural background, I would

00:33:37.040 go so far as to say it feels weird to me when I meet adult males who have never gotten into a

00:33:43.140 fistfight. That seems weirder to me than never having had sex. And if you look at other people

00:33:49.400 from clan based cultures, a great example here that people would look at and say, oh, Elon is a nerdy

00:33:54.000 looking guy. Like, look, people make fun of Elon Musk for like jumping up and down on the stage in

00:33:59.300 Butler, Pennsylvania during the Trump campaign, whereas like there there were instances earlier in his

00:34:04.620 career where he would literally duke it out with his brother in like, you know, a nondescript

00:34:10.640 Silicon Valley office to the point where his brother would be hospitalized just over like

00:34:14.260 technical development disagreements, you know, not not huge grievances, just like, hey, this is how

00:34:19.320 they hash it out. And well, that's yeah. Online are very bad at determining performative like aggressive

00:34:28.120 cultures versus like actually aggressive cultures. Well, and I think they're also like mistaking that

00:34:33.260 the Andrew Tate in the Chattails is the giant. He's the one who gets killed.

00:34:40.280 He will know that that's also true. By making yourself look overly threatening within these

00:34:45.040 regions, you are planting a target on your back. Yeah, it would have been a reason to look nerdy

00:34:51.520 and unassuming within these regions, which is why a lot of the famous people that people know from

00:34:57.180 these regions, whether it is myself or it is somebody like J.D. Vance look really like what

00:35:04.380 people would clock as nerdy instead of what people would clock as aggressive. And it reminds me of

00:35:10.400 like that song I showed Simone recently where I was like, oh, my God, this character looks like they

00:35:15.940 were drawn to look exactly like the way I used to dress with the round glasses and the red vest and

00:35:23.440 the tie and the black slacks. And he is just as murdery and crazy as I was. But I because I'm an 0.98

00:35:32.280 adult, you know, I'm able to suppress my impulses now. Like I don't get in random fights with people

00:35:38.020 anymore or anything like that. And I think that that's what we're is expected of us as adults,

00:35:42.140 whereas I think people that were born without these instincts. And you see, this was like Andrew

00:35:46.340 Tate, where I pointed out, like he clearly is from a very low testosterone, like birth environment.

00:35:50.900 If you look at his facial structure, whereas my facial structure would be seen as like an

00:35:54.720 exaggerated testosterone, like developmental environment. I should clarify here that I

00:35:58.680 actually think from my perspective, this makes what Andrew Tate has accomplished kind of cooler

00:36:03.820 rather than less cool. It's kind of like Lewis from Beastars, you know, being born a prey species,

00:36:09.940 but attempting to turn yourself into something that looks and acts and lives more like a predator

00:36:16.360 species. The fact that he was born and developed in such an extreme because he doesn't just look

00:36:24.920 like low testosterone, he looks like an exaggerated example of low testosterone environment and yet

00:36:31.080 become what he has become. I actually see as one of the cooler aspects about him.

00:36:36.300 I mean, people don't know to cue for that. They're like, oh, that's also going to affect

00:36:39.760 like their brain and the way that they approach problems. But it's not just the biological

00:36:45.680 differences that give you a different mental framing of reality. It's also the cultural

00:36:51.400 differences. And this is why I think, you know, you need a degree of cultural diversity because

00:36:56.180 the ideas that I'm able to come up with for resolving ideas like AI safety are going to be

00:37:01.680 very different than the ideas somebody who is acculturated within like a Jewish or Catholic

00:37:06.380 cultural context is going to come to. Well, and I also think it highlights this misunderstanding of

00:37:11.560 what traditional masculinity is looking at masculinity by only a few traditional respects,

00:37:16.700 like this concept of soy face that emerged in like 2017, 2018, like soy boys, like which is really

00:37:24.740 just associated with like looking more expressive or not showing classical masculinity. It's like normally

00:37:33.520 when I see people refer to someone having soy faces because they're expressive or they're laughing

00:37:37.300 or they're smiling and they're looking like they have a sort of ironic joke face. And you don't,

00:37:44.100 you're not accused of having a soy face or being a soy boy if like you look angry and serious.

00:37:49.020 Well, this is actually from me using AI because people have said, oh, Malcolm, you look so soy.

00:37:55.120 And I've been very confused by this because like, like by science, I look like somebody who was

00:38:01.980 overexposed to testosterone. Like that's my facial structure. So I was like, okay,

00:38:06.240 what could they be thinking looks soy about me? And so I actually went to AIs to see if AIs could

00:38:11.360 figure out what would make them think that Malcolm looks soy. Oh, really? Because, you know,

00:38:16.900 glasses aren't soy. Like there's a lot of people with glasses, a simple like buttoned down shirt isn't

00:38:22.160 particularly soy. It's a very nondescript item. And so I kept getting AI trying to analyze and what it

00:38:28.500 eventually came to is I think it's right. It is that I'm not like, like displaying.

00:38:32.800 Yeah, you either have to look expressionless or angry and then you count as masculine. Whereas like

00:38:38.980 most of the most, I would say, masculinely acting people, at least until they get self-conscious,

00:38:47.260 laugh a lot and are very expressive. The point being here is people are confusing

00:38:52.660 the fact that I am excited for life and happy and laugh a ton with a lack of masculinity because

00:39:01.000 within the cultures that they are from, that is genuinely seen as a lack of masculinity. But what's

00:39:07.180 interesting is within this culture that, you know, has the jack tails, it's like their core structure of

00:39:13.920 what masculinity is. That is not a lack of masculinity. That is actually the very height of what you are

00:39:21.400 supposed to be as a man, which is irreverent and not letting things get to you.

00:39:25.820 Well, and that's, that's what really gets me about things like testosterone replacement therapy,

00:39:30.060 which you see like people like figures like Jeff Bezos go through where he has this transformation

00:39:34.640 where suddenly he's like super jacked and he never smiles anymore is, is that a lot of men are turning

00:39:40.560 to testosterone replacement therapy. Like it went forex among men who are between 18 and 45 from 2003 to

00:39:47.080 2013. And then there was another 50% increase from 2013 to 2023. And this comes from a place of

00:39:54.600 insecurity, which is inherently feminine. Like if you are on testosterone replacement therapy, you are a 1.00

00:40:01.580 preening woman. I mean, now there obviously are like some health conditions where it's like, oh, this is,

00:40:05.820 this is really a problem.

00:40:07.500 But I, I, I've talked about, you know, this in the past, but it is worth noting that, that this strategy,

00:40:12.920 you could be like, well, that's a niche cultural marriage strategy. Certainly it doesn't work on like 0.99

00:40:17.420 the average woman or, or young woman. And I'm like, bro, like young women are not thirsting after like

00:40:25.120 Russell Crowe. They're, they're thirsty after people like, like Benedict Cumberbatch. What the guy who plays

00:40:31.300 Loki, the guy who plays the, the Pirates of the Caribbean guy, what's his name?

00:40:35.960 Yeah. The, the, the, the wrestler, the whistler that what's the, the whistler? No, the, the thing.

00:40:41.780 The whistler. You're like, oh, some more sexy boys. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Lanky panel

00:40:46.920 expressive. It was actually a very common, like ideal profile for a lot of women. Uh, but I think men

00:40:54.640 don't recognize it because they've keyed to cultural cues on the internet and they don't realize that what

00:41:01.260 the ideal man is, is diversely expressed across cultures. Yeah. And they may not be understanding

00:41:08.920 that even within their own culture, because a lot of people have lost touch with like American

00:41:11.900 cultural roots and they don't know their Jack stories. You know, they don't know this stuff. So

00:41:16.420 they, they think, oh, you know, you know, masculine isn't the guy who subverts and tricks the more

00:41:24.900 powerful person and then takes their stuff and murders it. You can take out the murder part, but,

00:41:29.440 but you know, subverts and tricks a more powerful player while having a good time masculine. It's

00:41:34.380 the guy who's like a gruff the whole time. Right. You know, but another fun tradition I found while

00:41:38.700 doing this research, it's called the shop chavary. Um, and so when couples get married to prevent them 0.99

00:41:44.480 from like just to mess with them, like trolling, trolling is obviously big within this culture.

00:41:48.680 Yeah. The wedding guests would all go around their house where like their wedding bed would be

00:41:53.200 and, and make a lot of loud noises and, and like shoot guns in the air and like sing and dance

00:41:59.280 to make it really hard for them to have sex without, you know, like, like yelling stuff at 0.96

00:42:04.640 them. And I, I think that that's like exactly the trolling you'd expect from them. I wonder if 0.93

00:42:07.960 this has produced like a, a slight tendency of people who are not turned off by loud noises

00:42:13.660 to be among like Appalachian subgroups, the ones who play really loud music when having sex 1.00

00:42:19.380 because they, they couldn't produce offspring. No, they're like, whatever. I don't care.

00:42:25.060 Yeah. But very interesting to study because if you're from a different cultural group,

00:42:30.740 this will be weird to you. Like, yeah, you'll think it's so, yeah. And yeah, I mean, you,

00:42:35.620 you get comments like this all the time. People being like, Oh, Malcolm's this or that. And like,

00:42:40.180 one, I mean, obviously it doesn't get to you because you've changed nothing,

00:42:42.760 which also I think it points to your complete lack of insecurity about this. You know, that they're

00:42:47.660 wrong and that you're right for you at least, and maybe they're right for them, but it's just,

00:42:52.340 this is clearly a point of extreme confusion for a non-trivial portion of your viewers. And so I'm

00:42:57.280 glad that you're bringing it to life. Yes. There's just a cultural difference in masculine ideals

00:43:03.400 and me leaning into my own cultural heritage is I suggest other people to adopt a culture to lean

00:43:09.220 into, or, you know, learn more about your culture and lean into what makes them different because it

00:43:15.760 likely co-evolved with your biology. Like when I hear about all this ultra aggression stuff within this,

00:43:22.100 this, this region, I'm like, Oh yeah, like that definitely co-evolved was like my background.

00:43:28.080 And it's something that as I grew up, I learned to suppress, but I may not need that. I might not

00:43:34.920 need this like irreverent figure. There may be a reason that this culture also did not lean into

00:43:41.560 stereotypes of aggression for aggression sake, because the people who did all died. I mean,

00:43:46.600 if you're in a culture where, you know, honor killings are really normalized for, for slights,

00:43:51.540 if you're in a culture where, you know, people sharpen their fingernails so they can gouge out your

00:43:55.660 eyes and where duels happen at the drop of a hat, you know, maybe don't be growly and angry for angry

00:44:01.280 sake, or you're not going to have a high chance of, of, of surviving, but do be in like, do have that

00:44:07.820 within you, but have it within you in a way that they are not going to see or recognize like right

00:44:14.340 off the bat. Right. Like it, it, it shouldn't, what was the word I'm looking for here? You know,

00:44:20.240 be seen as like an offense to them or like, you think you're better than them. I mean, this is

00:44:23.900 actually very key to the way I interact with people as well. This like really like happy, I mean,

00:44:28.620 like, Hey, how are you getting? Great to meet you, you know, et cetera, which is a way of meeting

00:44:32.780 people and engaging with people, which above all else is based around ensuring that they know that

00:44:39.000 I don't think I'm better than them because that's like the core thing that you need to stay alive

00:44:43.900 or appeal to politically, this cultural region. Yeah. Survival mechanism. Well, and it's why the

00:44:49.800 Democrats can't because they do think they're better than them. They're like, well, we're educated and

00:44:54.100 you're a bunch of, you know, racist hillbillies that we just need to learn to code or something like 0.98

00:44:59.380 that, you know? Yeah. And what they're really just doing is painting a giant target on their back. 0.99

00:45:02.580 Oh, so you're elite and you think you're better than me. Okay. Open season. Thanks for letting me

00:45:07.700 know. Wonderful. Yeah. Wonderful. This is, this is so great. Yeah. I love you to get Simone. Always

00:45:13.820 fun to talk culture. You haven't watched it enough time. It's because you are. I hate that movie.

00:45:19.960 Insufficiently. It's come on, man. The Jean-Paul Gaultier. Oh my God. The science, the clothing.

00:45:27.140 It's triple straight. Hard sci-fi is great. Not all sci-fi has to be hard sci-fi. You know,

00:45:32.360 like give it a rest, Melky. Don't be retarded sci-fi. Okay. Don't be retarded sci-fi. It's the 1.00

00:45:38.480 best depiction of what consumer spaceships as cruise ships are going to be like, because

00:45:46.080 it's the only depiction. And it's, I mean, you know, introduces so many concepts that

00:45:51.480 I think we really need, like sedation travel. It's, it's unfair that you don't like that

00:45:57.100 movie. It's like, oh, costumes, costumes. Costumes. You have terrible taste.

00:46:06.840 You have terrible taste, but I'm happy that you're going to learn to make sushi. Like I

00:46:11.220 have been drooling over that concept all day. Just what? Tuna? Sushi? Well, no. So what

00:46:19.700 we're going to get is some tuna and we're going to need imitation crab. Oh yeah. Cause real

00:46:24.220 crab. Well, no, imitation crab is what's used in most sushi. Um, and you know, if you, if

00:46:30.080 you're doing like typical, like rolls, right. You know, imitation crab made out of, is it

00:46:35.920 a fish product or is it fish product? Actually, I should write a list of all the things I'm

00:46:40.680 going to need. We're going to need wasabi. We're going to need ginger. We're going to

00:46:44.520 need eel sauce. It'd be cool if we could do some eel ones. If you don't want to work with

00:46:48.920 eel, we can just do tuna. No, I mean, I, you know, I've eaten a lot of unagi. I just,

00:46:53.540 I don't know how good I would be at preparing it. Probably just follow the instructions.

00:47:00.400 So far you've been great at everything, Simona. Too hard. Just follow the instructions.

00:47:05.000 Say, do what perplexity tells you to, and it's fine. It's so good for recipes. Love

00:47:11.540 perplexity for recipes. Changed everything.

00:47:19.880 That's right.

00:47:27.600 Yeah. Keep going friends. Keep going. This is our adventure.

00:47:31.460 Bears. Well, we better be very careful then, right, Octavian? 1.00

00:47:39.660 So, look, let's just release this cake.

00:47:41.760 So, let's break it down until we get into this.

00:47:44.240 Okay, so we're working.

00:47:44.700 Pretty good for you guys.

00:47:57.540 The門 is just for you guys to see coming here before we break the paper.

00:47:58.780 And you know, the key just deixar off here for us.

00:48:00.440 Now, here's our plan.

00:48:01.200 So, let's see.

00:48:01.520 It's just how we can.

00:48:02.420 So, we're going to do your plan.

00:48:03.580 We really need to play a little bit.

00:48:06.760 Let's see.

Based Camp - June 06, 2025

An Anthropology of American Hillbillies： The Horror Stories Might Have a Point

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