Based Camp - Are Furries More Trad Than Trad Wives？

00:00:00.000 But yes, I do think if you if you if you woke up one day and you had cute fox or dog ears.

00:00:10.420 It would probably make you which I don't know how this is possible because you become more attractive every day, but it would make you even a little bit more attractive.

00:00:20.580 Oh, my gosh.

00:00:21.700 I don't see how this is spicy.

00:00:24.700 I feel like if listen, if like Joe Biden suddenly had like white fox ears, you know, like I think that he like he would go up in the polls.

00:00:33.240 I think that Joe Biden shows his fetish very loudly.

00:00:38.220 Oh, he like sniffs people's hair.

00:00:40.280 He sniffs people's hair. He seems really into it.

00:00:42.420 If they had grown up within our generation, they'd accept it.

00:00:44.440 They know don't sniff women's hair publicly. 0.69

00:00:47.100 That's a bad thing to go around sniffing people's hair and something you can go to a special hair sniffing club for. 0.89

00:00:54.700 A hair sniffing orgy.

00:00:56.840 Y'all have a desire to be known and he's constantly sniffing hair in public. 0.73

00:01:00.960 It's not some big secret.

00:01:02.260 But we were saying what's also really funny about like what people think is trad and what people don't think is trad.

00:01:08.700 Furries are super trad.

00:01:11.780 Yeah.

00:01:12.280 Like they are more trad than the nuclear family.

00:01:15.560 What does trad even mean?

00:01:17.340 Like if you're trying to be trad, but you say furries aren't trad or not the type of trad you want to be, what's causing this differentiation?

00:01:26.340 Like what is trad actually if not furries?

00:01:29.900 Because I don't think that that's what people mean.

00:01:31.480 Like the way people use trad today, let's be honest.

00:01:34.100 Is not actually traditional.

00:01:36.140 Take the word trad, disassociate it from the concept of traditional or history or historical accuracy and just make it a genre.

00:01:42.940 Like anime or like DC comics, right?

00:01:46.040 I actually think trying to cosplay like a 1950s wholesome family is one of the few cultural contexts we have for what it looks like to be in a happy relationship with happy kids.

00:01:58.360 And so if you're trying to figure out or trying to search for how do I build that for myself?

00:02:03.860 Cosplaying that and cosplaying creates the thing you're cosplaying.

00:02:09.480 Would you like to know more?

00:02:10.660 I'm here.

00:02:11.720 You don't want to be a pilot?

00:02:14.020 What?

00:02:14.580 Oh yeah.

00:02:14.960 We had U.S. Air Force recruiting call me.

00:02:17.180 You know, when I took a job test, you know, there's like job tests you fill out.

00:02:21.500 There were, there were two jobs.

00:02:22.460 It was like, it's, this is very clear.

00:02:23.920 You just need to take one of these or else you'll be miserable in life.

00:02:26.420 Either join the military or become a librarian.

00:02:30.140 That is like, you just like, you can only live with extreme structure.

00:02:33.640 I'm sorry.

00:02:34.540 And of course I do the complete opposite, but, but also because I think what they miss and what these, these career tests miss, especially with autists is autists don't necessarily want somebody else's structure.

00:02:46.240 They want their own structure.

00:02:47.820 So it's better to be an entrepreneur, even if like everything is completely like Calvin ball, make up your own rules.

00:02:53.880 Nothing is certain.

00:02:54.780 At least you get to dictate everything yourself.

00:02:57.440 I always, I die in systems where I have to live by other people's rules.

00:03:00.920 I agree with that.

00:03:01.860 But what I want to ask you, mister, is if you were a furry, what would your fursona look like?

00:03:11.860 I actually think that this is a better question for somebody else to answer about me.

00:03:15.620 You, you, what would you want my fursona to be? 0.85

00:03:18.980 I feel like you'd probably be a fox because you're very fiery and clever.

00:03:29.120 And like, you're very loyal and caring.

00:03:35.820 So you're kind of dog-like, but you're not obedient.

00:03:38.200 So I couldn't classify you as dog.

00:03:40.620 You know what I mean?

00:03:41.740 What about a raccoon? 0.97

00:03:44.360 Yeah, you're totally a raccoon. 0.98

00:03:46.200 Oh my God. 0.98

00:03:46.960 And like, you also do this thing that I call raccooning.

00:03:49.540 So Malcolm, just for your edification, he like, his brain turns off when he has things in

00:03:55.100 his hands or even like, like a wedding ring on his hand.

00:03:58.100 And like, when he just gets in certain modes, like he's eating or he gets into a car or he

00:04:03.340 gets home, like he starts, his brain turns off and he starts raccooning or just like stuff

00:04:08.960 just gets shoved in places.

00:04:10.260 And like, you never know where it's going to go.

00:04:11.980 If he's at a restaurant, it's like somehow under a plate.

00:04:14.320 And then we've lost so many of his wedding rings because of this.

00:04:17.640 He just, he has to, he can't have it on his hand.

00:04:19.460 You know, I just have this generic, like $5 wedding ring.

00:04:22.260 $11, $11.

00:04:23.560 Come on, we're not screwing here.

00:04:24.980 It's your wedding ring.

00:04:26.400 But yeah, we have like basically all over the house.

00:04:28.740 Like I've hanging on little hooks.

00:04:30.260 I have in my purse.

00:04:31.100 I have in my makeup bag.

00:04:32.200 I have in my like.

00:04:33.280 I love your thing about like, I'm like Sonic.

00:04:35.340 Whenever I hit something, just rings explode everywhere.

00:04:39.600 But yeah, you're totally raccoon. 0.96

00:04:40.920 That is, that is your fursona. 0.96

00:04:42.380 What about you?

00:04:45.360 A squirrel?

00:04:47.300 Yeah, probably a squirrel.

00:04:49.320 No, you're more deliberate than that.

00:04:51.360 Squirrels are very deliberate.

00:04:52.480 They're always like, no, ew.

00:04:54.820 No, I'm definitely, because squirrels like to squirrel things away and like hide things

00:04:59.020 and they act like they're really busy, but they're really just shuffling stuff around.

00:05:02.980 But you also like shiny things.

00:05:04.680 I think another raccoon here.

00:05:06.780 Maybe, yeah, maybe we're a bunch of raccoons.

00:05:08.300 A little raccoon family, a little dirt pandas, trash pandas that hang out in.

00:05:13.620 But hold on.

00:05:13.980 And you like breaking rules.

00:05:15.340 And I like, well, you know what the raccoons would do when they would break into my childhood

00:05:18.200 house?

00:05:19.040 Is they would, they would take our cat's food and then they would wash it before eating

00:05:23.660 it.

00:05:24.240 Like they dip it in water and then they'd eat it.

00:05:26.960 And then one, they're so smart and they're so big on collecting.

00:05:30.120 So I guess this would be me.

00:05:31.380 Yeah, big on hygiene too.

00:05:32.700 They like washing things.

00:05:33.620 Yeah, they're big on hygiene. 1.00

00:05:34.680 So that would be me.

00:05:35.660 And then what we found one day when we like came up in the middle of the night and we could

00:05:39.080 hear them, like they'd bust into our house through the cat door, which was one of those

00:05:42.420 magnetic key cat doors.

00:05:43.740 So like it should not have, but they, they picked the lock.

00:05:45.920 They're just very smart.

00:05:46.920 Is they had not just eaten all the cat food.

00:05:49.100 They'd found the cat food bag.

00:05:50.460 And we found one raccoon on the outside of the cat door pulling the bag.

00:05:55.200 And we found the other raccoon on the inside, pushing the bag, trying to get it out.

00:05:58.900 And of course that was some dangerous situation because then in that case we had a raccoon

00:06:01.800 trapped in our house on the other side of the cat food bag, but these are, yeah.

00:06:05.600 Okay.

00:06:05.860 Our fursonas are raccoons. 1.00

00:06:07.240 Before we go further on this, I need to, I was recently watching because I was like,

00:06:10.520 I got to recommend this anime and I have forgotten to recommend this anime before.

00:06:14.040 Okay.

00:06:15.360 Spice and Wolf.

00:06:16.920 But that's not about furries.

00:06:18.200 It's about a fox girl.

00:06:19.100 Oh, no, no, no.

00:06:19.640 But I was thinking, cause you were asking me and I was asking you, what fursona would

00:06:22.560 you be?

00:06:23.160 My last girlfriend, well, not my last, but my other really serious girlfriend who, you

00:06:27.420 know, she was in our wedding party.

00:06:28.460 I don't want to name names here.

00:06:29.440 The beautiful one.

00:06:30.200 Yes.

00:06:30.500 Well, they were all beautiful, but the extra, the most beautiful one.

00:06:33.100 She looked and acted exactly like the female protagonist from this anime.

00:06:38.840 Oh, really?

00:06:39.340 Very much wolf energy, I guess you would say.

00:06:43.020 So yeah.

00:06:44.080 Just so you know, the anime, if you do want to watch it, it's about economic games.

00:06:48.200 So like when people, when there's conflict in the show, it's over something like some

00:06:53.900 sort of economic battle, you know, like in Naruto, they would have like actual, but if

00:06:59.140 it takes place in medieval Europe, basically.

00:07:01.080 So medieval Europe, economic battles with a spicy wolf girl. 0.99

00:07:05.840 If you're interested in that spice and wolf, check it out.

00:07:09.260 Very, very top tier anime.

00:07:11.300 Very educational too.

00:07:12.620 So, you know, what's the topic of this video, right?

00:07:15.700 Because recently, you know, we've done some things where we point out that what people

00:07:19.500 can, and we have a video on this, what people think of as a trad wife is a progressive conspiracy 1.00

00:07:25.560 in that it was really something created by Hollywood in the 1950s that was never really

00:07:31.600 lived by that many people.

00:07:32.960 A lifestyle lived by that many people.

00:07:34.880 Right.

00:07:35.040 And among the people who were living it, it was a fairly new lifestyle that had really

00:07:39.680 only begun to be experimented with in the 1910s to 1920s.

00:07:43.320 Yeah.

00:07:43.600 And right now it's almost a completely dead lifestyle.

00:07:46.480 Well, people pretend it isn't, but it's, it is not sustainable even when they pretend.

00:07:51.900 Well, no, it's economically unfeasible for 90% of the population.

00:07:55.080 Yeah.

00:07:55.240 Unless you're super rich, then you can cosplay it all you want.

00:07:58.080 Yeah.

00:07:58.480 You can cosplay whatever.

00:07:59.440 But what I'm saying is it doesn't work.

00:08:00.440 It's like a large scale.

00:08:01.100 But we were saying what's also really funny about like what people think is trad and what

00:08:05.140 people don't think is trad.

00:08:07.820 Furries are super trad.

00:08:11.000 Yeah.

00:08:11.480 Like they are more trad than the nuclear family, far more trad than the nuclear family. 0.91

00:08:16.840 They are far furries are more trad than Christianity. 1.00

00:08:22.740 Furries.

00:08:23.280 Oh my gosh.

00:08:23.740 You're right.

00:08:24.280 Trad than even traditional ultra orthodox, like as much as you can go back Judaism.

00:08:32.740 Yeah.

00:08:33.780 Furries are probably.

00:08:37.160 So let's, let's describe what we mean by this.

00:08:39.460 So if you look at what furries are, these are people who identify with an animal persona

00:08:47.060 and they will wear costumes that allow them to take on this persona and they will go to

00:08:53.940 specific parties that involve a number of people, but not necessarily all the people

00:08:58.880 at that party taking on different personas associated with these animals.

00:09:03.820 And these animals can exist at different levels of full animalness.

00:09:08.120 Like there's extreme and lesser versions.

00:09:10.400 And sometimes all it involves is just a few animal accoutrements.

00:09:13.800 You know, you're wearing a tail or you're wearing some furs or some ears, but like people

00:09:19.140 have been doing that for a long time.

00:09:20.480 There's more to the furry community than that.

00:09:22.360 They also will engage with texts that anthropomorphize animals where these animals are not

00:09:30.340 representative of anyone exactly in the community, but act as inter-community cultural nexuses

00:09:36.060 or nodes that everyone in the community would know about and relate to each other with.

00:09:39.900 This is not just what furries do.

00:09:45.580 This is what ancient Egyptians did.

00:09:47.240 This is what ancient Africans did. 1.00

00:09:49.200 This is what ancient Native Americans did.

00:09:51.320 This is what ancient Chinese did. 0.99

00:09:53.240 But a really interesting thing, sorry, a little side note before we go further.

00:09:56.040 Remember I was talking about like a cultural touch point here.

00:09:58.600 So a lot of people, you know, they might see our show and they'll be like, why do you always

00:10:04.780 have like these low culture, like these pop things like appear in the show?

00:10:09.080 And like, why, why, why do you communicate that way?

00:10:12.980 Darmok and Jalad at Tanaga.

00:10:16.820 Shocker.

00:10:18.900 When the walls.

00:10:20.020 The clip I just played is of this traditional Star Trek episode where they meet a species

00:10:24.340 that communicates entirely in cultural references.

00:10:28.740 And I think when you see this species all talking to each other, Simone, is that a bit 0.89

00:10:33.460 like you when you go to a family meeting between me and my brother?

00:10:36.060 Yes.

00:10:37.320 Because we both, he just like me, just constantly quotes shows as a way of relating or describing

00:10:43.800 what's going on.

00:10:44.920 It appears they're trying their best, as are we, for what it's worth.

00:10:49.860 Shocker.

00:10:50.800 When the walls fell.

00:10:56.320 Darmok.

00:10:57.700 Darmok.

00:10:59.280 Bri and Jiri at Lunga.

00:11:01.560 Shocker.

00:11:02.460 When the walls fell.

00:11:04.020 Xena at Anzo.

00:11:05.620 Xena and Bacar.

00:11:06.860 Darmok at Tanagra.

00:11:09.140 Shocker.

00:11:10.020 Mirab.

00:11:10.600 His sails unfurled.

00:11:12.200 Darmok.

00:11:13.120 Mirab.

00:11:13.900 Temok.

00:11:14.920 The river.

00:11:22.020 Temok.

00:11:22.560 Oh, and he'll test you.

00:11:23.300 He'll be like, do you know what that's from?

00:11:24.500 If you don't know it, like, he will judge you.

00:11:27.100 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:28.500 Oh, and it's low stuff as well.

00:11:30.740 Like, oh, you don't know this random anime quote that you should know?

00:11:34.340 You don't know this?

00:11:35.800 Within our family culture, it would be considered very arrogant to quote or reference really

00:11:41.460 cultured things, like a form of extravagance or finery or vanity that shows you to be lesser

00:11:50.580 and insecure.

00:11:51.480 So you almost end up competing on how low cultured things you're quoting are, because to show

00:11:58.980 yourself as high status, you need to have achieved a lot, but not be embarrassed about how you

00:12:05.660 present yourself or the things that you show that you engage with.

00:12:08.760 And so you almost sort of flex how not embarrassed you are.

00:12:12.560 That's this episode on furries.

00:12:14.960 Anyway, back to it.

00:12:16.160 But yeah, furries are something that humans have traditionally been doing throughout our

00:12:20.500 entire history and are probably one of the most common cross-cultural references you see when

00:12:27.940 you look at early human cultures.

00:12:30.540 Yeah, they're universal.

00:12:31.480 It's not just the early days.

00:12:34.260 And I think that this is the thing.

00:12:35.260 So when I talk about, like, within the furry community, they have some, like, animals that

00:12:40.040 they anthropomorphize that are part of their stories.

00:12:42.020 Well, this is what you see in early Native American religions, early Egyptian religions,

00:12:45.040 early African religions, or even current ones in these communities, where you will see

00:12:49.580 them anthropomorphizing animals that are, you know, that we'd see them as gods or something

00:12:53.540 because they're part of this early religious framework.

00:12:55.220 But they're not exactly gods often.

00:12:57.460 They don't really interact with people's lives.

00:12:59.620 They're more like shared cultural narrative touch points.

00:13:03.220 You also have this in early Europe.

00:13:04.500 So don't anyone say that, like, this is not a European thing.

00:13:07.260 Europeans have definitely had these if you look at early European history.

00:13:11.460 So even that's the same.

00:13:13.780 The idea of dressing up as animals you'll see in these cultures, the idea of dancing or going 0.95

00:13:17.300 to parties where you dress up as these animals, the idea of partially identifying.

00:13:20.440 Like, they have different ways of relating to this.

00:13:22.540 Like, maybe an animal spirit partially overtakes you and you partially become this animal,

00:13:27.540 right?

00:13:27.860 But this is what you see within furry communities.

00:13:31.200 It is fascinating to me that it is just this ancient ritual that people are performing.

00:13:36.900 But it gets more interesting than that.

00:13:38.760 So if you look at masquerade parties, so the original masquerade parties.

00:13:42.940 So a lot of people, when they hear masquerade parties today, they think of people walking

00:13:45.660 around in this little, like...

00:13:46.920 Those half-assed masks.

00:13:48.580 The original masquerade parties, you would take on an alternate persona.

00:13:52.060 And many of these personas were, I mean, there was a diversity of ways that you would do it,

00:13:56.100 but they were clearly, like, medieval iterations of these early furry parties.

00:14:01.000 Furcon.

00:14:02.040 What?

00:14:03.100 Furcon, medieval edition.

00:14:04.960 Well, I mean, you could say that people are doing this when they, you know, the idea of dressing

00:14:09.380 up as shared cultural touchpoints, like you would have at an anime convention or something

00:14:12.320 like that.

00:14:12.720 It's also a very ancient thing to do.

00:14:14.860 No, totally.

00:14:15.660 Totally.

00:14:15.800 And go to conventions where everyone does this and, like, you're channeling these entities.

00:14:19.300 Like, maybe the 14th, like, you know, you know, cosplaying as different mythical creatures.

00:14:25.740 Or Rome.

00:14:26.680 They did it.

00:14:27.360 No, totally, yeah.

00:14:28.280 People cosplay as their favorite characters throughout history when they can afford to.

00:14:32.020 Well, yeah.

00:14:32.500 Well, Roman emperors would often do this, or they'd be like, I'm this mythological deity.

00:14:36.360 You are this mythological deity.

00:14:38.000 Yes. 1.00

00:14:38.360 Let's also have sex with these mythological deities. 1.00

00:14:40.420 Well, then they're practically, then you're almost otherkinning it. 0.99

00:14:42.800 But anyway, we'll not go there.

00:14:44.120 No, no, but let's go there.

00:14:45.460 Otherkin.

00:14:45.800 Otherkin are people who believe that they have some sort of spiritual connection to what

00:14:51.540 we would think of as fictional identities, like a character from Harry Potter or an anime

00:14:55.680 character.

00:14:56.460 Right.

00:14:56.660 And they think that that is part of their personality.

00:14:58.320 You know, I was talking to anotherkin recently, and they were like, it's really interesting

00:15:00.840 how much the otherkin social networks have changed recently.

00:15:05.460 So it used to be that if you ran into somebody who had the same identity as you, that was seen

00:15:08.480 as, like, a bad thing, and you wouldn't want to overlap identities within social networks.

00:15:11.840 But now people disproportionately and intentionally seek out people who have these different identities.

00:15:17.900 Yeah.

00:15:18.180 And they were talking about why people do this, like female puberty. 0.75

00:15:21.320 Yeah.

00:15:21.900 Yeah.

00:15:22.260 So, I mean, I get it now because I get that there is this extreme desire to belong to a 0.82

00:15:29.200 group.

00:15:29.500 And also, like, you have a crisis of identity when you hit puberty.

00:15:32.540 You're like, my body is changing.

00:15:34.120 My feelings are changing.

00:15:35.220 Like, who am I?

00:15:36.640 And you don't really know who you are yet.

00:15:37.980 You also don't have the means or independence to figure out who you are, but, like, if your

00:15:42.340 friends start tagging you as, like, this character, and this character is fully fledged, out of

00:15:46.980 the box, pre-assembled, they have their lives figured out, it's, like, incredibly comforting

00:15:51.280 and you just be like, yeah, I'm that person or I'm that character.

00:15:54.160 And so that would be really comforting.

00:15:56.160 And these days also, because I think we are experiencing, like, maximum atomization and

00:16:01.100 isolation in society, I could see why also otherkin of a particular character who may have,

00:16:07.440 in another time, not been so, so thrilled to see another one of their same character are

00:16:12.420 now thrilled to see it because just, like, now I'm not alone.

00:16:14.760 Now there are other people like me and, like, I feel less alone in this moment.

00:16:18.840 So, yeah, that also makes sense to me.

00:16:20.480 But other people are different.

00:16:23.440 Yeah.

00:16:23.840 Yeah.

00:16:24.080 Shared goals, shared values.

00:16:25.880 You know, that's, and that's comforting because we, in, in progressive secular culture,

00:16:31.540 there, there's not a whole lot of shared goals and values.

00:16:34.400 So, like, if you can just find the same character as you, I guess that's the closest you're going

00:16:38.300 to get to that amazing feeling, which is really depressing.

00:16:42.020 But there you go.

00:16:45.860 So, this brings me to an interesting question.

00:16:48.460 Yes.

00:16:49.540 So, people will see this and they're like, okay, this is obviously true.

00:16:53.000 Like, furries have been around for a long, long time.

00:16:56.280 Well, but then why, why are people so weird about furries?

00:16:59.040 Because people love hating on furries.

00:17:00.800 We'll talk about that in a second, but I want to talk about, well, we can talk about

00:17:04.780 that now.

00:17:05.600 What does trad even mean?

00:17:07.480 Like, if you're trying to be trad, but you say furries aren't trad, or not the type of

00:17:11.900 trad you want to be, what's causing this differentiation?

00:17:16.320 Like, what is trad actually, if not furries?

00:17:19.940 Because I don't think that that's what people mean.

00:17:21.460 Like, the way people use trad today, let's be honest.

00:17:24.060 Is not actually traditional.

00:17:26.080 It's not actually traditional.

00:17:27.140 And they don't actually mean they want to go back to traditional ways of doing things.

00:17:30.080 Yeah, what does trad mean then?

00:17:32.780 Right.

00:17:33.220 So, very interesting.

00:17:34.060 So, first, so, actually, I think it's a cultural aesthetic that is based around a fantasy that

00:17:42.500 never existed just as much as furries or people who go to conferences.

00:17:48.780 Or, you know, they are cosplaying as something that never existed.

00:17:55.280 So, trad is a genre that, and it's completely, so take the word trad, disassociate it from

00:18:01.780 the concept of traditional or history or historical accuracy, and just make it a genre, like anime

00:18:07.720 or like DC Comics, right?

00:18:09.720 And then that's a thing, right?

00:18:11.420 Yeah.

00:18:12.260 But I think it works.

00:18:13.280 Now, let me be clear.

00:18:14.080 I am not denigrating this trad concept.

00:18:16.640 I actually think trying to cosplay like a 1950s wholesome family is one of the few cultural

00:18:23.700 contexts we have for what it looks like to be in a happy relationship with happy kids.

00:18:29.140 And so, if you're trying to figure out or trying to search for how do I build that for

00:18:34.060 myself, cosplaying that, and cosplaying creates the thing you're cosplaying really frequently.

00:18:41.200 So, if you cosplay a religion, you will often become that religion.

00:18:46.260 And this is the point of, you know, when we talk about, we do not mean ever to denigrate

00:18:50.440 like Catholic rituals, even though we have a cultural aversion to them.

00:18:54.100 Somebody was pointing out, it is the cosplaying of those rituals which makes somebody become

00:18:58.820 a devout Catholic.

00:19:00.160 Right.

00:19:00.500 It reinforces their faith.

00:19:02.060 It is through cosplaying this trad concept of a family, one of the only concepts of a

00:19:07.540 family we have in society, of what does an actual wholesome family look like, that leads

00:19:12.860 to individuals, you know, being this happy, wholesome family, right?

00:19:20.200 I mean, what do we look like now, right now, you and me right here?

00:19:23.020 But you shouldn't overemphasize in the cosplay to a level of economic unrealism.

00:19:30.180 Right.

00:19:30.940 Yeah, don't take it too far.

00:19:32.320 A family with like seven kids living off of one income is, I'm going to be honest, unrealistic.

00:19:39.260 Well, no, no, some people actually make it work.

00:19:41.960 They do, but it's difficult.

00:19:43.320 Some people, and I think that's the big emphasis, and you have to really know that you can pull

00:19:47.060 it off.

00:19:47.560 And I think a lot of people do it before they realize they can make it work.

00:19:50.600 Yeah, or they commit to it as the only way they're going to have kids.

00:19:54.280 And this is why, you know, we did an episode which showed that conservative countries, while

00:19:58.980 conservative individuals have more kids within a country, conservative countries have fewer

00:20:01.500 kids than progressive countries when you control for income.

00:20:03.700 And I'll put up the graph here, which says this is not a big difference, but it's like

00:20:07.840 you don't expect any difference here.

00:20:09.440 You expect it to be a sharp curve in the other direction.

00:20:12.700 And this is likely why.

00:20:14.080 It's because they say, well, I'm going to wait to like, and like raise a bunch of kids off

00:20:17.700 of one person's income.

00:20:18.800 And like, that is unrealistic for everyone, for most people, not like the top two, three

00:20:26.380 percent of our society, but for most people.

00:20:28.480 Now, why are furries denigrated, right?

00:20:30.900 That's an interesting question.

00:20:33.160 Well, because, and I think that there's a false answer that everyone's going to immediately

00:20:36.700 go to that's wrong.

00:20:38.720 And I think that false answer is because there's, there's sex stuff, which is, it's weird because

00:20:45.240 there's also like, okay, but in trad marriages, there's sex stuff. 1.00

00:20:48.840 Like, I'm sorry.

00:20:50.080 Do you like BDSM, there's sex stuff.

00:20:52.380 And that community isn't as denigrated.

00:20:53.900 It's a, yeah.

00:20:54.680 So it's not the sex stuff.

00:20:56.480 Although I guess like we, at least within BDSM and with trad, the sex stuff is not sometimes

00:21:03.700 correlated to zoophilia.

00:21:05.760 Whereas there, there is a bit of a like zoophilia slight, I would say weak correlation with the

00:21:10.280 furry community.

00:21:10.800 Like it's not intense, but it's, there are some furries that are into that.

00:21:15.100 Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:16.240 But I wouldn't say that the community is like disproportionately zoophilic.

00:21:22.160 Yeah, not at all.

00:21:22.900 No, no.

00:21:23.340 Okay.

00:21:23.700 I will say the community is disproportionately zoophilic when contrasted with the general

00:21:28.080 population.

00:21:28.340 What are you going to do with animals?

00:21:29.640 I mean.

00:21:30.060 But it's not, your average furry isn't zoophilic.

00:21:32.880 I'd say that.

00:21:33.500 Right.

00:21:34.080 You know, maybe three to, to one percent of the community is.

00:21:38.420 Yeah, that's fair.

00:21:39.180 So I was thinking back to the stats from our sexuality book, The Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality,

00:21:44.080 and I realized that the number of furries who are actually zoophilic is almost certainly

00:21:48.560 much higher than I just cited.

00:21:50.620 If you look at Kinsey's study back in 1948, he found around eight percent of all men and

00:21:57.660 three percent of all women had had sex with an animal.

00:22:01.200 What's really interesting about these numbers is that they are about the only kink that we 0.99

00:22:05.580 could find that has dropped significantly over time.

00:22:08.800 More recent studies have shown that this number is only around five percent of men and two

00:22:13.420 percent of women. 0.96

00:22:14.540 What's interesting is that our study, when we were looking at how many are attracted or

00:22:18.740 find the idea arousing to sleeping with animals, that's around six percent of males and two

00:22:24.360 percent of females.

00:22:25.100 And if our data is accurate and the other study is accurate, that's insane because that

00:22:29.920 means around 87 percent of people who are aroused by the idea of having sex with an animal have

00:22:37.520 tried it.

00:22:38.320 Also, those numbers are shockingly high, like much higher than I would have anticipated.

00:22:43.180 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:47.040 I just had a terrible thought.

00:22:49.200 So if I have slept with around 150 women and two percent of women have slept with an animal,

00:22:55.820 that means there's around a 95 percent chance that one of the women I have slept with has 0.99

00:23:00.860 slept with an animal.

00:23:02.620 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:23:07.580 So that's my read.

00:23:09.280 So with that being the case, why, why do people hate this community so much?

00:23:14.420 Well, huh, I guess it's actually has to do with one thing, deviation from society's mainstream

00:23:23.740 value systems.

00:23:25.140 So if you look at the dominant cultural groups in our society, whether they're the Christian

00:23:28.460 cultural groups or the dominant urban monoculture today, furries are loudly and visibly different

00:23:36.320 from either of those cultural groups.

00:23:38.040 Wait, in what way, though, that like steampunk fans or anime fans or like Trekkies are not?

00:23:46.180 I just think it's louder.

00:23:47.940 Just louder.

00:23:48.980 Do you think they're more irreverent?

00:23:50.180 Maybe I feel like there is more irreverence.

00:23:51.980 Like you don't hear like there's that famous fur con that like just they trashed the hotel. 0.98

00:23:57.580 Rainforest.

00:23:57.900 Yeah.

00:23:58.740 Look it up, by the way.

00:23:59.600 Rainforest.

00:24:00.020 I think Internet Historian does a thing on them.

00:24:02.160 Yeah.

00:24:02.400 Yeah.

00:24:02.740 I think an Internet Historian is just the most brilliant person ever.

00:24:06.060 I love him.

00:24:06.680 By the way, if he ever listens to any of these, we would love to talk to you or know you.

00:24:10.420 You are hilarious.

00:24:12.600 Yeah, seriously.

00:24:13.740 Unless he's like literally a brother and he could be based on the humor.

00:24:17.160 Actually, he really could be my brother.

00:24:19.020 I have these moments where I watch his videos and I'm like, but really?

00:24:23.740 Oh, yeah.

00:24:24.100 So if people are wondering what my brother is like, just Internet Historian.

00:24:27.820 That's my brother.

00:24:28.220 That is Malcolm's brother.

00:24:29.760 Yeah.

00:24:29.920 So either Internet Historian, you have like a twin out there and it's Malcolm's brother or you are him.

00:24:37.360 We know.

00:24:38.460 I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's one of our family members.

00:24:43.320 No, because it's too close to specifically your brother.

00:24:45.900 But anyway, we digress.

00:24:47.360 Yeah, so maybe it's the level of irreverence, the level of like craziness.

00:24:53.320 So like if you were to combine soccer hooligans in Europe with anime nerds, you know, you've got both the cultural difference and weirdness combined with the unruliness.

00:25:09.880 Maybe there's also something about like people associate mascots and like people wearing costumes with childhood.

00:25:19.040 So it's kind of like someone dressing up like Barney and like maybe for some people that violates some like weird.

00:25:25.800 Let's talk about why cultures hate people who are different from them. 0.63

00:25:29.200 Right.

00:25:29.440 This is important to know.

00:25:30.920 Right.

00:25:31.100 Like why would cultures just shame and isolate people who are different from them?

00:25:34.900 Okay.

00:25:35.220 Because the cultures that didn't ended up disappearing.

00:25:37.120 When a culture doesn't shame difference, it disappears.

00:25:41.940 It's just basic cultural evolution because then difference ends up replacing it.

00:25:46.520 And the differences that did shame people who are different from them do end up disappearing.

00:25:52.240 Touche.

00:25:52.640 Or do end up replacing it or whatever.

00:25:55.040 But anyway, the point being is that if our culture did not shame freedom or didn't shame people who are different from it, it would end up being replaced.

00:26:02.980 And so most cultures shame things that are different from it.

00:26:05.960 So then the question is, why do most modern cultures, like modern successful cultures, when we can see that furries were so common throughout history, this impulse, this cultural display, why do very few of the successful cultures, whether it's the urban monoculture or conservative Christian cultures, why did they not do this?

00:26:24.260 That is interesting.

00:26:26.260 And I think the answer is that it just serves no utility.

00:26:30.040 It's completely vestigial.

00:26:31.780 I think it's probably part of early human evolution that had to do with group bonding rituals or maybe the evolution of our understanding of cognition or like the way cognition works and the theory of mind works and then accidentally getting it applied to animals.

00:26:46.440 I don't know.

00:26:48.440 And then that ended up creating a loop.

00:26:51.580 I forget the words for this.

00:26:52.740 There's an effect for this in biology.

00:26:56.140 So that could be what you see there.

00:26:57.740 We talk about it in our episode of should music be a sin.

00:27:00.440 If you look at that.

00:27:02.220 What I would add, though.

00:27:03.660 So, yeah, I mean, I agree with you.

00:27:04.900 And yes, so culture has to denigrate in other of these people.

00:27:08.440 And because furries are extra other and also unruly, like maybe that's just giant target on their foreheads.

00:27:14.600 But what's also uniquely interesting is that it's I think what culture also likes to do is like kick out the useless, you know, like denigrate the the nonproductive.

00:27:25.620 But furries are not that.

00:27:27.640 And that's what something blew my mind about this.

00:27:29.620 And this happened in an unconference session we were at at an event that was so off the record that for the first time ever, we've been forced to put our phones in Faraday bags for long periods of time.

00:27:40.240 It was completely inhumane.

00:27:42.120 But one inhumane.

00:27:43.380 I love it.

00:27:43.840 It was.

00:27:44.740 One fairly famous guy on Twitter was in one of these unconference sessions and and furries came up and it came up in the context.

00:27:55.960 I'm not going to name him, but it came up in the context of like, you know, where are there overlooked, but very productive and smart people in society?

00:28:04.700 And he's like, actually, furries like have I met I've met a bunch of furries.

00:28:09.520 Like, apparently, there was a fur con right before some conservative conference that he was attending.

00:28:13.200 It was like pretty high profile.

00:28:15.080 And like he spoke with a bunch and asked, like, hey, you know, how much is your costume?

00:28:19.220 Because they have these, you know, super elaborate costumes and, you know, they're like fifteen, twenty five thousand dollars.

00:28:26.160 You know, these are these are people and only five or six.

00:28:30.440 Yeah.

00:28:31.200 And it's these are these are extremely expensive costumes.

00:28:34.560 These are like people with careers and lives who are very smart.

00:28:38.460 Some of my like like some of the coolest, smartest people that, you know, I've encountered online who like do really amazing work are also furries and like made fun of for that.

00:28:47.580 It's it's just so weird because this is also a group that is disproportionately of very high intellectual firepower.

00:28:58.360 I don't I don't know what to make of it, but.

00:29:01.580 OK, so I'll ask you a question.

00:29:03.620 OK, you want to get you want to get spicy here.

00:29:06.160 Always.

00:29:06.960 Do you think that people with some animal features, you know, like anime characters and stuff like that are attractive?

00:29:15.140 Well, I think it's kind of universally understood that cat ears and fox ears on both men and women.

00:29:22.140 So this is not it's not just cat girls.

00:29:23.760 And I think people have a big misunderstanding here.

00:29:25.960 I just actually was hearing the other day.

00:29:27.740 I can't remember where I heard this, but like a major hacking group that I guess is kind of like we'll say 4chan and Jason has like recently taken stuff by ransom.

00:29:35.920 And they're like, we will not return it until you find some biological way to engineer cat girls or like you like that's how they troll them, which is amazing.

00:29:42.320 I just have to say that like I'm glad they're doing God's work, these people, but.

00:29:46.140 Maybe gross in real life, though.

00:29:49.520 It depends, Malcolm.

00:29:51.180 Yeah, probably, because I mean, have you actually looked inside cat ears?

00:29:53.780 They're really weird.

00:29:55.040 Yeah, actually, you're not wrong.

00:29:56.460 Maybe dog ears, but I will say so.

00:29:58.420 It's not just cat girls.

00:29:59.260 Think about Inuyasha, like a lot of girls. 1.00

00:30:01.220 No, I'm thinking there was this this anime where like people would have like eggs.

00:30:05.160 The anime is called Shuguchara.

00:30:06.680 I'll find it out that like represented their like powers and then things would hatch out of them.

00:30:11.080 And would they lay the eggs? 0.72

00:30:13.000 It had like 17 seasons.

00:30:15.120 It was like a really popular.

00:30:16.240 Would they like crouch and lay an egg?

00:30:19.400 No, no, no, no.

00:30:20.000 Like they came out of their soul.

00:30:21.260 Like they represented their soul and then like little chibi characters would hatch out of it.

00:30:25.000 Okay.

00:30:25.320 But anyway, the major love interest, like the tuxedo mask in this with a guy who had cat ears and his little thing was like a black cat.

00:30:33.440 And so often in these animes, so at first you said girls really like this as well on guys.

00:30:38.400 And I was like, that's not true.

00:30:39.520 And then I think of the number of like anime male characters I know that are predominant love interests that are like a black cat and like.

00:30:47.200 Yeah, but here's here's the counterfactual for that and where I kind of agree with you with the gross in real life thing is when I look when you look at the and maybe it's it's it's a rat tail versus squirrel tail issue.

00:31:02.380 But when you watch the Wizard of Oz live action, which you've never seen, I know you're so strange, but it's not that good.

00:31:09.380 So don't worry about it.

00:31:10.380 There are there are flying monkeys, but it's really clear that it's just like men in monkey costumes and they have these long tails and just looks wrong on like a human.

00:31:17.860 But I feel like if humans had squirrel tails that are fluffy and bushy, it would be a different story.

00:31:23.060 I admit, I think squirrel girls look cute. 1.00

00:31:25.600 It's just like the ears and the big bushy tail.

00:31:27.540 The big bushy tail.

00:31:28.040 Yeah.

00:31:28.320 See, I think it's the nature of the ears.

00:31:29.840 It's the nature of the tail.

00:31:30.740 So like dog ears, not cat ears and squirrel tails, not rat tails or monkey tails, you know, and then we're good.

00:31:38.580 But yes, I do think if you if you if you woke up one day and you had cute fox or dog ears.

00:31:49.320 It would probably make you which I don't know how this is possible because you become more attractive every day, but it would make you even a little bit more attractive.

00:31:58.440 Oh, my gosh.

00:32:00.440 Especially if you have like expressive ears.

00:32:02.160 I don't see how this is spicy.

00:32:03.960 I feel like if listen, if like Joe Biden suddenly had like white fox ears, you know, like I think that he like he would go up in the polls.

00:32:12.000 I think that Joe Biden shows his fetish very loudly.

00:32:16.760 I would not be surprised if I go to his office and there is just random people's hair clippings in his desk.

00:32:23.220 Hair.

00:32:23.500 There was that.

00:32:24.180 He like snips people's hair.

00:32:25.620 He snips people's hair.

00:32:26.600 I was waiting for Joe and just staring at his desk when I decided I'd have a little look-see inside the drawers.

00:32:32.820 Uh-oh.

00:32:34.080 I think I might know where this is going.

00:32:36.520 I opened one.

00:32:37.980 Then another.

00:32:39.500 Then another.

00:32:40.940 And inside every drawer, every single one, piles of human hair.

00:32:46.400 For the first time in my life, I felt like I understood a president.

00:32:49.900 As I was sorting through the hair, admiring the collection, in walked the man himself.

00:32:55.000 There was no hiding what I had done, so I just put the hair back, shut the drawers, nodded my head, and said,

00:33:00.400 Mr. President, hey, if he didn't want someone finding his hair collection, he should have locked his drawers.

00:33:06.540 We all have a desire to be known, and he's constantly sniffing hair in public.

00:33:10.780 It's not some big secret.

00:33:12.620 He seems really into it.

00:33:14.140 Like, he is really into, like, smelling hair.

00:33:15.040 But isn't that a smell fetish and not a, it's a smell fetish, it's a hair fetish.

00:33:20.620 It could be a smell fetish, it could be a hair fetish.

00:33:22.780 It's something, but, like, he does it publicly.

00:33:24.620 He is not ashamed.

00:33:25.880 Well, that's sweet.

00:33:26.600 He's sex positive. 0.87

00:33:28.680 Proud kinkster. 1.00

00:33:29.480 And I also think, and I know conservatives would hate this, Trump, I think, is a little out there about being,

00:33:39.080 what's the word I'm looking for?

00:33:40.820 There are a little too many images and too many video clips and audio clips where he does seem to have something about his daughters.

00:33:51.400 Ivanka.

00:33:52.860 Ivanka's hot.

00:33:53.900 I'll say that.

00:33:54.580 She's hot. 1.00

00:33:55.480 She's hot. 1.00

00:33:56.420 Yes.

00:33:57.120 No.

00:33:57.480 I mean, he's not wrong.

00:33:59.480 He's not wrong. 0.53

00:34:00.800 He's not wrong. 0.53

00:34:01.480 There's definitely going to be an age where, like, if my daughters end up super hot, and for some reason my brain thinks they're hot. 1.00

00:34:08.080 Like, I don't know.

00:34:08.800 Like, the Western Mark effect is what prevents you generally from seeing you.

00:34:11.860 You should.

00:34:12.260 Yeah.

00:34:12.600 It didn't kick in.

00:34:13.600 Yeah.

00:34:14.120 Like, I would find hugging them, like, if I thought my daughters were hot, I'd probably find hugging them a little repellent. 1.00

00:34:19.720 Yeah.

00:34:19.980 So, like, you wouldn't do it, right?

00:34:21.300 You wouldn't, you'd keep your distance.

00:34:24.940 Yeah, you'd shake their hand or something.

00:34:26.520 We should just count our blessings that Ben Shapiro doesn't happen to be Trump's son.

00:34:31.220 Dad, why is my sister so hot? 1.00

00:34:33.340 I have no idea.

00:34:35.680 I mean, I'm not crazy, right?

00:34:37.420 Like, she's hot. 1.00

00:34:38.720 It's insane how hot she is. 1.00

00:34:41.260 Was mom ever that hot? 1.00

00:34:42.380 God, no. 0.93

00:34:42.980 I feel bad, like I'm f***ed up for being attracted to my sister.

00:34:47.240 Oh, I think I'm in a little worse of a position. 0.87

00:34:50.620 I am so ashamed.

00:34:54.000 It's a girl.

00:34:56.100 It's a girl.

00:34:59.460 It's a girl.

00:35:01.940 You know what?

00:35:03.420 I don't think I should be a father.

00:35:05.820 Yeah, I'm out of here.

00:35:07.340 Harold?

00:35:07.980 No, it's for the best.

00:35:10.420 Everyone should have their own thing.

00:35:11.780 As long as it's not hurting the people around him.

00:35:13.480 And he seems to have a really good relationship with his kids.

00:35:16.360 Yeah, I mean, yeah.

00:35:18.780 So, it's fine.

00:35:21.220 No, I mean, that is fine.

00:35:22.840 That is fine.

00:35:23.780 Is this like a, is this another podcast we should do?

00:35:26.180 Like, just what do we guess the kinks are of these famous people? 0.93

00:35:31.200 I love that, right?

00:35:32.460 Wait, what blew my mind, though, is that Trump and Biden are older than Bill Clinton?

00:35:40.560 Are they?

00:35:41.780 Let's just double. 0.84

00:35:43.540 Age of Bill Clinton.

00:35:44.640 Seven years.

00:35:46.240 Age of Trump?

00:35:48.760 77.

00:35:49.520 So, and Joe Biden is 81.

00:35:52.020 So, if, okay, Trump was born June and Bill Clinton was born August.

00:35:59.320 Trump is older than Bill Clinton, as is Joe Biden.

00:36:01.680 That is wild.

00:36:02.920 That is wild.

00:36:03.920 I know, right?

00:36:05.060 Yeah.

00:36:05.620 Like, we have a problem when, because we all thought, like, Bill Clinton's really old.

00:36:11.680 But, no, man.

00:36:12.940 Oh, well, also, I think their generation is too old to really have kinks they participated in in private.

00:36:18.200 Like, if they had grown up within our generation, they'd accept it.

00:36:20.300 They'd know, don't sniff women's hair publicly. 1.00

00:36:23.200 That's a bad thing to go around sniffing people's hair.

00:36:25.940 And probably something you can go to a special hair-sniffing club for. 0.94

00:36:29.720 A hair-sniffing orgy. 0.74

00:36:34.140 Not my thing, but I don't shame. 0.88

00:36:37.160 I, if anything, I am encouraged by the fact he's so public about it.

00:36:43.340 Yeah.

00:36:43.560 But I do think that maybe he should try to gain consent from the women he uses for this level of satisfaction and not do it with little girls either.

00:36:52.340 That's a little.

00:36:52.800 If someone asked you, though, if they could sniff your hair, I don't think that you would say yes.

00:36:59.580 You'd say yes?

00:37:00.000 Whatever.

00:37:00.560 It makes them happy.

00:37:02.020 Oh, that's sweet, Malcolm.

00:37:04.400 It doesn't hurt me.

00:37:06.800 Yeah.

00:37:07.760 Yeah.

00:37:09.040 Yeah.

00:37:09.980 Does it increase the chance that I'm murdered?

00:37:12.020 Maybe.

00:37:12.880 I mean, no.

00:37:15.420 I don't think so.

00:37:16.480 It's fine.

00:37:17.040 That was a wild tangent at the end of this episode.

00:37:23.840 I love you, Simone.

00:37:25.720 You are amazing, Simone.

00:37:28.340 I love you so much, Malcolm.

00:37:29.740 You are perfect, Simone.

00:37:31.220 And I.

00:37:31.640 Would I be.

00:37:32.460 Hey, no.

00:37:32.960 Question has to go back to you.

00:37:34.100 Would I be more perfect with.

00:37:36.100 I do not think you would be better.

00:37:38.720 With like a squirrel tail or something.

00:37:40.560 Okay.

00:37:40.900 A squirrel tail would be pretty cute.

00:37:42.600 Yeah.

00:37:43.800 And little cat ears.

00:37:45.200 Yeah.

00:37:45.720 Yeah.

00:37:45.800 Yeah.

00:37:47.040 And yeah.

00:37:48.620 And yeah.

00:37:51.520 All right.

00:37:53.560 All right.

00:37:53.980 All right.

00:37:54.420 All right.

00:37:54.700 All right.

00:37:55.660 Love you.

00:37:57.580 Our kids are going to see this someday.

00:38:01.500 Yeah.

00:38:02.060 But I feel like one of our kids is going to end up being a furry.

00:38:05.140 So they'll be like, well, at least mom and dad love me still.

00:38:08.320 I could definitely see that.

00:38:10.600 It's so common these days.

00:38:12.460 Anyway, you're the best, Simone.

00:38:14.280 I love you, Malcolm.

00:38:15.860 Love you, too.

00:38:16.400 All right.

00:38:18.040 All right.

00:38:23.120 All right.

00:38:23.240 All right.

00:38:24.620 All right.

00:38:25.180 All right.

00:38:25.460 All right.

00:38:25.880 All right.

00:38:25.940 All right.

Based Camp - December 12, 2023

Are Furries More Trad Than Trad Wives？

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