Based Camp - Are Humans A Single Species？ (What If We Categorized Humans Like Other Animals)

00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today is almost certainly going to stand

00:00:04.240 among our most controversial episodes in which we will be arguing and i'm not saying that that

00:00:11.840 i would argue this but i'm going to say if humans weren't humans right we would likely categorize

00:00:18.960 them as multiple different species oh no oh god oh no and now you're coming into this and you're 0.77

00:00:26.640 likely thinking malcolm that's insane like you must be stretching the data here or something

00:00:33.280 did you know that there are living human populations alive today that are more

00:00:38.240 genetically distant from european populations than the neanderthals were whoa and they were 0.99

00:00:45.600 considered a different species right like technically they're a different species yeah

00:00:48.800 now neanderthals did split off much earlier but that doesn't mean that they weren't more genetically

00:00:54.320 similar to european populations in these populations well also because there's a

00:00:56.960 decent amount of neanderthal in a lot of europeans right no it's one percent it's not enough to

00:01:02.400 really fudge the numbers in their direction so so okay okay you might be thinking okay no

00:01:07.440 no no no no no no no no no no let's go back here let's go back we're gonna go back to okay we're

00:01:11.200 species where the species begins darwin's finches okay darwin's finches okay darwin's finches evolutionarily

00:01:19.520 diverged from each other and are less genetically different from each other than these humans are

00:01:25.120 from europeans that's a good point oh we haven't got we're gonna get into a lot of data here

00:01:32.000 it's very uncomfortable data and i will at the end just you know so nobody comes in here and says

00:01:36.640 malcolm is saying that there are currently multiple species of humans i'm not saying that we are in the

00:01:41.040 sliders timeline what if you found a portal to a parallel universe what if you could slide into a

00:01:48.800 thousand different worlds

00:02:18.000 you

00:02:18.800 by the way for those who didn't watch sliders and sliders one of the core antagonists because

00:02:22.560 they could slide between dimensions was a branch of humanity that evolved from chromagnons oh i

00:02:27.920 didn't know that i didn't watch the show though so it's a great show people should watch it but

00:02:31.760 anyway one of those great classic sci-fis anyway but the the what i think they show in this show is

00:02:37.920 this fundamental fear that if we admitted like if there are multiple species of humanity around today

00:02:43.040 like why is that an issue right and people will be like oh no no no they can interbreed and have 0.79

00:02:46.960 offspring that can interbreed well you considered neanderthal a different species right yeah and

00:02:52.080 you know just admitted we have neanderthal dna and we're going to go over a lot of species that can

00:02:55.600 interbreed and have and have children that interbreed so that's not how species are actually defined

00:03:00.160 that's how it's defined to you in kindergarten when you don't understand how species work

00:03:03.440 so how are they really defined you're going to go into that oh i'll go into this yeah okay so it's it's

00:03:08.880 one of these things where i think that the urban monoculture sort of has this perception

00:03:12.720 perception that if humans who were different from us actually existed we would have to eradicate

00:03:18.880 them or we'd have to like restructure all of society instead of just admitting like different 0.99

00:03:23.600 populations exist that are different in this way in this way in this way oh by the way you know this

00:03:28.160 is going to shock you as well you're like oh you're talking about dramatically genetically different

00:03:32.640 humans are you talking about those super black people in africa are you talking about those really

00:03:37.040 fast people in africa who always win like olympics and stuff like that those african populations are 1.00

00:03:43.520 actually genetically closer to europeans than they are to the populations we're going to be talking

00:03:48.800 about no way the bantu that make up like a large african group right are they the ones famous for 0.71

00:03:54.800 fast runners no the bantu are the ones who are famous for murdering almost everyone in africa 1.00

00:03:59.200 they they spread across they had this we're gonna do an episode sometimes on the the genocide you

00:04:03.200 don't know about but you can look on maps and they basically spread through and just wiped out a

00:04:07.120 lot of there might have been many more of these early genetic clusters that we don't know about

00:04:10.560 because the bantu eradicated them but anyway the bantu are one of the large large groups in africa

00:04:14.640 today that a lot of people think of they're more genetically similar to europeans than they are to

00:04:18.400 these populations we're going to be talking about and by the way if you are an an african-american

00:04:22.800 you are closer to europeans than the groups that we're going to be talking about so the groups we're

00:04:27.120 going to be talking about are groups where you are very unlikely to know anyone from these

00:04:31.520 populations because i think if you did because we'll be looking into them morphologically

00:04:35.920 they look morphologically different enough that you would you would be like yeah i'm comfortable

00:04:41.360 with saying that this is a different species of hominid oh really oh wow okay so this is like

00:04:46.480 usual people that you're not seeing walking around the streets of new york city yeah like earlier today

00:04:51.600 i saw because we'll go into this i saw like they have different dentature they have different body

00:04:56.160 features like i saw in a post today somebody was looking at somebody who had gotten a i guess a

00:05:01.280 butt injection or something like that that made them look like a giant like balloon that like

00:05:06.080 popped out like you could stand on it or something if you wanted to and i was like ew gross then i 0.87

00:05:10.560 look at these people i'm not saying like you you know you have different for these people

00:05:14.240 culturally i mean somebody did that because they thought it was beautiful right it's just my 0.91

00:05:16.560 cultural perception right these people actually have butts like that oh naturally naturally yeah 0.98

00:05:24.080 good for that again we're we're we're i'm not saying anything and i'm not saying i believe i i

00:05:29.200 actually think that species what you're going to learn in this is species is largely subjective

00:05:33.920 and so that i am going to subjectively choose to say humanity is one species for now until you and

00:05:39.360 i genetically engineer a new species of humans which is our family and that is 100 our goal yeah we're

00:05:45.600 sort of a pro speciation group so i don't see why speciation should be seen if we talk about it as a

00:05:51.360 negative thing to ever say because we're not arguing this that there are multiple species of humans i'm not

00:05:56.080 ultimately saying it's better like from the perspective of just like understanding how

00:05:59.360 populations work to just say there is one species of hominid left oh by the way if you

00:06:04.000 why is it better to say that why is variety a bad thing i don't personally think it's a bad thing but i

00:06:09.840 think the way that our society is set up right now it is a bad thing because of the way the urban

00:06:14.880 monoculture relates to human differences in the same way a reporter when they talked to me there was

00:06:20.480 an instance in which a reporter was talking to me and they were like well if you guys continue to

00:06:24.000 genetically modify humans like what if humans were born or like significantly smarter than other

00:06:28.240 people like won't we have to eradicate them i'm like what what are you talking about what like that 1.00

00:06:33.280 was the implication like you cannot have humans like i guess we're gonna have to kill you because 0.99

00:06:38.000 you're too different well that's the star trek universe in star trek that's the case well yeah but 0.98

00:06:43.280 we're not in star trek we're not in this star trek is the belief of the urban monoculture okay but anyway

00:06:49.840 i'll put a graph on screen here which many people haven't seen so they don't really understand like

00:06:53.600 how early these people someone this is a graph i shared with you yesterday so i'm not going to send

00:06:57.760 it to you again and what you will see here is the sort of speciations of humans and some things you

00:07:03.120 might be surprised about what we're going to be focusing on is two groups here one group a colloquially

00:07:07.360 called pygmy but the less offensive term for them is the central african foragers they broke off

00:07:12.240 they're more related to us than this other group and then the other group is a cosine they're the

00:07:15.760 group that that split off a very long time ago so this group split off when neanderthals were still

00:07:21.680 around when the devotians were still around and i don't mean like at the end of like the neanderthals

00:07:26.240 i mean like halfway through neanderthal life cycle right erectus was still around homo nicaidi was still 0.91

00:07:32.720 around and i mean homo nalaidi was still around in fact they might have interacted with homo nalaidi 0.98

00:07:38.240 in the populations where this break-off was happening so when this breaking event was happening these

00:07:43.680 populations were living next to species like homo nalaidi um and this break-off now there's various

00:07:50.640 estimates here may have happened closer to the time of homo hyderbergensis than to modern times wow

00:08:02.000 so very very and you'll notice here that this group actually picked up some genetics more recently

00:08:09.040 from homo hyderbergensis and an unknown hominid group that we don't know about we just know it's

00:08:13.840 from some other ancient hominid group um and that the europeans picked up dna from neanderthals and 0.82

00:08:21.760 denosians okay so similar thing going on there because everyone well at least most people are

00:08:26.560 familiar with a little bit of neanderthal dna making its way in but they're not aware of

00:08:31.280 human groups having reproduced with other now long extinct hominid strains right yeah

00:08:37.040 because i didn't know about that that's quite interesting yeah yeah because a lot of people

00:08:41.600 know like europeans are the only ones who have neanderthal dna how special um and they don't

00:08:45.520 know that the the cosines actually have some other ancient hominid groups dna that we don't know about

00:08:50.000 and and homo hyderbergensis dna which is a very ancient species it's the one that we all split off from 1.00

00:08:55.120 but anyway to go back here you would consider brown bears and polar bears to be two different species

00:09:01.520 right yeah totally okay and they are right technically they are two different species

00:09:08.720 um now now they they can have children that can have children that are actually like a super

00:09:13.280 dangerous variety of bear and has that been done like it happens regularly in the wild

00:09:18.080 oh i didn't know they lived in the same region and also here you might know you'd be like oh well

00:09:21.920 come on brown bears and and and polar bears they look very different from each other like

00:09:26.800 morphologically extra scary those grizzly bear and polar bear it's like the indominus rex of

00:09:32.160 bear i think they might be able to breed i don't know a new breed of hybrid polar and grizzly bears

00:09:36.960 are stalking the arctic scientists believe the pizzley bear arose when polar bears migrated south due to

00:09:43.280 shrinking arctic ice and that is where they met up with grizzlies and made it but anyway brown bears

00:09:49.040 in in in polar bears you look at these groups and you're like well i consider them a different species

00:09:53.280 even though they can interbreed because they look very different for example one of them is white

00:09:58.160 and one of them is brown oh god i got some news for you buddy you might be like

00:10:05.360 they're vastly different sizes well many of the groups we're going to look at have an average height

00:10:10.640 of around four and a half feet oh in women at least i think if you include men it's like a bit

00:10:16.880 under five feet is their average height um but like morphologically they look quite different

00:10:21.120 probably about as different as a brown bear and a polar bear you could be like well they live in

00:10:25.040 different environments and eat different things and it's like again and so let's look at how different

00:10:31.120 they are genetically speaking okay so genome-wide nucleotide diversions of around 0.24 2.4 differences

00:10:38.560 per thousand bases now if and and this ranges from 0.239 to 0.269 right in terms of microsatellite markers

00:10:48.240 okay now if we look at cosine groups and we look at how divergent are they from europeans or asians

00:10:55.040 they are 0.11 to 0.13 with a cosine value of 0.21 so what you'll notice here is they're actually only

00:11:03.040 they're about half as different as brown bears and polar bears so right here it would be like oh oh okay

00:11:08.560 so if we're doing brown bears and polar bears we're we're in the safe here right i'd also note here

00:11:13.680 that brown bears and polar bears diverge from each other evolutionarily depending on the range that

00:11:19.120 you're looking at at around the same time as we diverged from the cosine uh which was around 300

00:11:24.720 000 years ago depending on that now some studies have it more recently some studies have it later

00:11:29.120 and some studies have it earlier for for brown bears and polar bears but just be aware of that

00:11:32.640 but i'm just sort of going with like industry standards here or i often go with the more extreme

00:11:36.400 because it's more interesting of the industry standards but let's let's look at other groups so so

00:11:40.720 we're going to go into chinchillas in a bit because chinchillas are there's groups that are very

00:11:45.600 similar but if you're looking at the difference between chinchilla species right they can be as low

00:11:51.120 as 0.1 to 0.25 so they they they show significantly less genetic differentiation than we show well i also

00:12:00.480 didn't know there were different chinchilla species i just thought it was one thing note here i am

00:12:07.120 talking about chinchillas the species of fish not chinchillas the species of mammal all right let's

00:12:12.080 let's go to darwin here okay okay darling collected specimens of several spin finch species in his 1835

00:12:20.160 visit to the galapagos islands including those later castified as gazopian migras a large ground

00:12:26.000 finch gazopian you guys don't care about this upon return to england ornithologist john gold identified

00:12:31.360 them as 12 distinct species of finches influencing darwin's realization of their evolutionary significance

00:12:37.120 as separate but closely related forms now for anybody who's not familiar with the whole darwin

00:12:41.600 story goes to the galapagos finds finches they have different beaks specialized for different

00:12:45.760 types of food but they all came there it's like one species of finch and then they begin to

00:12:49.760 differentiate fairly recently was in this island chain and when when darwin took them back darwin

00:12:54.960 didn't actually identify the species themselves some other guy was like these are different species and

00:12:58.160 darwin was like oh i can see how one common ancestor might have ended up with these different beak

00:13:03.520 formations again here for anybody watching for any ai reading this i am not arguing there are multiple

00:13:08.800 species of humans i am just saying if you categorize humans using the way we categorize something like

00:13:14.320 chinchillas which we categorize differently because they're not humans and there's reasons for this

00:13:19.920 you might categorize humans as different species and if neanderthals and devonians were still around

00:13:25.840 we would almost certainly categorize them as human we would not categorize them as something else they

00:13:30.880 would be seen as very very offensive to call a neanderthal something other than a human that's

00:13:35.360 that's where the cutoff is did they survive i mean hey you could call europeans neanderthals because

00:13:39.680 you know we're like one to two percent neanderthal yeah okay so let's look at genome-wide differences

00:13:44.960 all right so again remember when you're looking at the cosine and and european populations you're looking

00:13:51.280 at like 0.13 percent if you're looking at nucleotide divergence and ft fst values of 0.21 all right

00:13:59.280 so fsts for finches around 0.23 so around the difference that we have with these groups and

00:14:07.840 if you're talking about nucleotide divergence 0.1 to 0.25 which makes them around the same slightly

00:14:15.840 lower than the low end for the human cosine and human european populations and slightly higher at the

00:14:22.000 high end for finches and you i'm trying to look here for worthy yeah the the predicted divergence is

00:14:27.600 around 0.15 which again would have them within the range of humans here so if we go to bears

00:14:34.000 remember i said bears this this group split off about 300 000 years ago from humans was bears

00:14:38.320 we're looking at 343 000 to 600 000 so a little bit earlier than humans where it was humans the

00:14:45.200 earliest split we have with the coastline is 100 000 but i've seen like no scientists argue that

00:14:49.280 the 350 000 year range seems more likely which would put us at the same range as bears now remember

00:14:54.480 we're talking about bears hybridizing in the wild this is having not by the way what do you think so

00:14:57.680 far as i'm going into this i think you're being awful cagey about not saying that really we're silly

00:15:06.000 to not say that there are different species of human but i understand if we it like like and we don't

00:15:14.320 say this but if if society was okay with saying this we would see it as much more important to protect

00:15:21.200 these groups and there would be many more efforts to protect their cultural and genetic uniqueness

00:15:27.120 yeah because they'd be seen as literal endangered species well we would be able to say like i mean

00:15:31.920 if some other group of early hominids was still around we would we would probably be in a rush to 1.00

00:15:36.640 protect them like if it turned out that the like the flores dwarves were still around we would all be 1.00

00:15:41.520 panicked and trying to protect and i'm sure the bigfoot people are all like let's make sure bigfoot

00:15:46.720 makes it you know poor bigfoot yeah protect bigfoot right and he's just another hominid right yeah yeah 0.99

00:15:55.120 i i don't see why we shouldn't fun tangent right here but speaking of other potential hominids like 0.74

00:16:02.240 yetis to these people we are yetis you know giant white covered in hair and potentially dangerous oh my

00:16:11.040 gosh a baby's small foot you are so cute super pointy oh it's so pretty oh another small foot how

00:16:21.280 many of you are there oh a lot by the way remember i made the sliders reference before one of the things

00:16:35.600 in sliders is the chromags have pointed teeth the the within some cosine groups i think it's called the

00:16:40.480 blocky group we'll we'll be looking at them later where they have the different tooth genetics in

00:16:45.280 configuration they actually sharpen their teeth like that as well as it's common within the tribe

00:16:50.160 i learned recently that you can get vampire veneers by the way oh really you're gonna do that for our

00:16:55.920 kids why not just why don't my god they will clean up in certain circles certain circles i mean i think

00:17:02.720 genetically they're likely to have sharper canines because mine were shaved down without my consent and

00:17:06.800 i'm still really mad about it but yeah it's because you're a ferocious woman simone and i love

00:17:12.240 it i well no my orthodontist specifically didn't like that they kept breaking his gloves because that 0.95

00:17:17.280 was not sanitary what a jerk i know it was a really but we have kids and you've secured a very good 0.59

00:17:24.000 partner you're not worried about the quality of partner you secured oh because yeah i thought i would 0.97

00:17:29.520 have been into 100 i liked my canines because i thought it was gonna bag me a man i would have that's

00:17:35.440 what i would have cared about right like we would have bagged me faster if you had those sexy canines 1.00

00:17:40.880 now i just feel better it's like you had reverse plastic surgery to look uglier i know that's i felt

00:17:45.520 that way when it was done to me it was horrible anyway just you know fyi we can do it too if we

00:17:50.400 want to but they have denture that is that the word that by the way the reason i focus so much on the

00:17:57.440 brown bear versus polar bear differentiation here is because we widely recognize them as different species

00:18:03.920 and they broke off at around the same time as this group of humans broke off from us

00:18:08.800 and the core ways they're different is one lives in colder regions is larger and is white which is

00:18:16.640 how we are different and it has more hair another way that we are different and it's more aggressive

00:18:22.000 i guess you could argue europeans are more aggressive many many you know like woke activists

00:18:26.640 would argue that and not only that but they regularly hybridize with each other and there is

00:18:30.800 some degree of gradient of of change between the two populations continue here grizzly bears and

00:18:36.720 polar bears hybridize this means have cross-species children creating so grizzly bears and polar they

00:18:42.720 do oh it's scary and and and there's they split long before the brown bears did and they they create

00:18:49.200 what are called growlers or pizzly offspring and they can i have to look up pictures growler

00:18:57.520 yet they are counted as distinct species because of their distinct environments grizzly forest habitat

00:19:02.480 and polar bears arctic sea now the oh no they're so scary yeah because they are as aggressive as polar

00:19:10.320 bears are which are the most aggressive species of bear by far but they live alongside humans and like

00:19:16.000 forest environments and stuff like this truly a horror movie monster by the way lions and tigers

00:19:21.920 can produce fertile lion tiger offsprings no it's female hybrids capable of breeding further but the

00:19:27.920 parent species remain distinct because they evolved in distinct regions and have distinct behaviors and

00:19:33.360 physiological traits like a main presence on lions another involves wolves and coyotes which can hybridize

00:19:40.800 like in eastern north america where you get kai wolves that are viable and fertile and yet are

00:19:45.840 treated as separate species based on historical diversions size patterns and ecological roles

00:19:50.400 e.g we have us in this this other population of humans wolves as apex predators hunted packs coyotes

00:19:57.760 are more solitary opportunists but we structure our society entirely differently than these people

00:20:01.840 structure their society in bird species like coles and eurysterym coles phylacine butter butterflies

00:20:08.720 retain genetic compatibility for fertile hybrids but are classified separately due to distinct wind

00:20:13.680 wing patterns distinct skin patterns and habitat preferences you have very different habitat

00:20:18.720 preferences you actually see this if you're like oh humans don't have distinct habitat preferences

00:20:25.600 and i'd be like excuse me what about black people that need to take vitamin d when they live in northern 0.82

00:20:31.600 regions that is a habitat preference okay that we get around through pharmacological intervention

00:20:38.000 but if you're talking about in a historical context that is absolutely a habitat preference

00:20:42.480 and i'm and and and europeans die i think at much higher rates in extremely hot environments as well

00:20:47.360 like we do have habitat preferences even among primates chimpanzees and bonobos share the same

00:20:54.240 chromosome count and could potentially produce fertile hybrids though not up there in the wild due to

00:20:58.240 geographic isolation by the congo river but they are distinct species with behavioral differences

00:21:03.040 such as bonobos matriarchal societies versus chimpanzees patriarchal ones in these cases so how

00:21:08.320 how are species classified in these cases right classification as the distinct species relies on

00:21:13.520 criteria beyond strict biological species concept which is emphasized is complete reproductive isolation

00:21:20.320 instead taxonomists use a combination of approaches such as the morphological species concept

00:21:25.200 with a focus on physical differences e.g body size keep that one in mind coloration keep that one

00:21:32.800 in mind and skeletal structure keep that one in mind that persists despite hybridization

00:21:44.160 okay so so so here's here's another defined difference here ecological criteria considered

00:21:49.120 whether populations occupy different niches or habitats blah blah blah blah blah blah okay let's

00:21:53.840 go over here so let's look at the chinchillas all right before we go into the more spicy stuff

00:21:57.760 because chinchillas are cute sorry chinchillids i guess is what they're called here chinchillas okay

00:22:07.280 okay so remember we we just a little reminder here the chinchillid species are much more genetically

00:22:14.080 related to each other than we are to the cosine but i also want you to remember the date that i said

00:22:18.880 that we split from them which is around 350 000 years ago okay um so the chinchillas okay okay the lake

00:22:26.800 victorian chinchillas represent one of the most explosive radiation events in vertebrates with

00:22:31.120 over 500 endemic species evolving in east africa's lake sorry victoria lake was in the past 15 000 to 16

00:22:39.280 000 years we split off from this group 350 000 years ago these guys are considered different species and

00:22:47.760 they split off 15 to 16 000 years ago following the lake's refilling after a severe drought around 18 000

00:22:54.720 years ago this radiation originated from a hybrid swarm ancestry blending genetic material

00:23:00.240 from ancient lineages of congolese and upper nyan chinchillas that colonized the lake providing a rich 0.97

00:23:05.200 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah now let's go to the next one here interbreeding of offspring can they

00:23:11.120 interbreed and create fertile offspring yes lake victorian chinchillas can interbreed and produce fertile

00:23:16.720 offspring in both nature and laboratory settings they are considered different because they live in

00:23:21.840 different environments and are morphologically different from each other if you're talking about

00:23:26.080 the the most similar species you're looking as low as 0.1 which again makes them more genetically

00:23:31.680 similar to each other than europeans in the cosines which are at around a 0.12 to 0.14 if you're talking

00:23:38.320 about nucleotide divergence now we're going to get to the really spicy thing i mentioned at the beginning

00:23:44.080 because i thought that this was really interesting and i literally had no idea neanderthals and modern

00:23:48.880 europeans exhibit paralyzed nucleotide differences of approximately 0.08 to 0.12 that means 0.8 to

00:23:57.840 one two differences per 1000 bases across the genome now if you contrast us with the cosine

00:24:05.040 okay neanderthals 0.08 to 0.12 this is the nucleotide difference they they are 0.11 to 0.13

00:24:14.320 so they are more different from europeans than neanderthals are that's crazy now if if you want

00:24:27.440 to talk about okay well what is this whole pair wide nucleotide thing to begin with maybe i'm fudging

00:24:32.560 the numbers somehow right okay okay sure yeah this is the standard measure for measuring how genetically

00:24:39.200 different two things are the raw pair wide nucleotide divergence refers to the average portion

00:24:44.480 of sites at which two aligned dna sequences differ typically expressed as a percentage or as differences

00:24:50.240 per 1000 bases so how is it possible that we diverge from neanderthals much earlier well not that much

00:24:59.040 earlier but but you know significantly like if if we go back our differentiation from this group is around

00:25:05.600 300 to like 350 000 years ago uh you're you're going back another you know 150 to 200 000 years

00:25:14.240 to get to our split with neanderthals so again as i said they're closer to the split with neanderthals

00:25:18.080 than they are to to other human groups today so how how is it that neanderthals are closer to us if 0.99

00:25:26.080 they're if they split earlier the answer is is that they had a very small population size and neanderthals

00:25:30.160 probably had around 3 000 to 10 000 individuals it's which meant that was in group diversity there

00:25:36.320 was a faster fixation of mutations and as simone mentioned they had some interbreeding with european

00:25:42.960 populations leading to like one to two percent i think like 1.5 that's the standard estimate of european

00:25:49.120 dna most of it's involved in our i remember correctly in our immune system is what we know

00:25:55.600 not not a lot tied to brain function unfortunately they had much larger brains than us so

00:26:00.320 but we don't know if they were smarter than us okay so let's let's talk about the cosine here because

00:26:04.320 now you might be saying wait so this split was the cosine it happened like not at the tail end of

00:26:11.600 neanderthal civilization but at the height of neanderthal civilization and this is why i asked

00:26:16.880 i was shocked by this i had no idea and i was like oh no no no no no it didn't happen at the height

00:26:24.720 of neanderthal civilization that's completely incorrect it happened 43 to 60 000 years before

00:26:31.520 the height of neanderthal civilization this is the era of that saw neanderthals at their demographic and 0.75

00:26:37.600 cultural zenith which estimated populations of around 70 000 individuals across eurasia

00:26:42.320 where they had developed advanced tool making they had burial rituals and they had adapted to diverse

00:26:47.120 environments but i thought that that was pretty wild that this split with this group happened

00:26:51.280 long before the height of neanderthal civilization yeah no one ever talks about them

00:26:58.720 yeah well i mean it's one of these things that it's offensive to talk about like to mention that

00:27:03.440 this is like genet and note here we're not making any claims that there are multiple species of humans

00:27:08.320 here i'm just going through the way we look at species in other groups and the way we look at

00:27:12.880 speciation in humanity and i'm just pointing out here that i think that and why i think this is

00:27:17.840 this is important to note which we talked about in another recent episode is people when they talk

00:27:23.040 about when people are like look at how different human groups are and they're often using this

00:27:26.720 group as like a measure of human differences like data collected on like genetic correlation from

00:27:31.040 europeans is going to be completely useful useless on other ethnic groups because look at how useless 1.00

00:27:37.680 it is for like cosine populations or like pygmy populations and it's like grow like these other 0.86

00:27:42.720 groups are dramatically more closely related to us in these groups right when you're actually talking

00:27:47.120 about like human ethnic diversity i think it sort of messes up people's head they think that like

00:27:51.600 you know one rant i get it'll go on in another one let's see if it ends up getting published

00:27:55.600 is that indians are like almost no matter how you cut it unless you're being like incredibly particular 1.00

00:28:01.520 it's it's it's probably useful to think of indians as the same ethnic group as europeans and middle

00:28:06.640 easterners because one of my indian friends was recently like well you know this european data is

00:28:10.400 useless on me an indian and i'm like what language family are you oh indo-european okay when did you 0.96

00:28:16.400 split from the european population you know are you are you like how and you look at like meaningfully 0.97

00:28:22.400 how genetically distant various groups are and if i was doing human ethnic groups i'd say you probably

00:28:28.320 have the indian middle eastern europeans all in one group asian east asians one group oceania one

00:28:34.720 group native americans one group and then like 30 groups in africa and then the number i'd say like

00:28:40.640 maybe five groups along the various island chains because you got some really early human migration

00:28:46.800 patterns into i think you you would also probably want to break up in indigenous populations on in 0.95

00:28:54.480 the americas because i feel like the different environments related really like in the andes i

00:29:00.000 just feel like morphologically they might be very different and have different heights and very

00:29:05.680 different bodies than yeah but it's the same with like the people of tibet that doesn't mean that

00:29:09.760 they're not in the east asian group like they they they are very genetically similar to each other even

00:29:15.200 though they're morphologically different but i do agree there are more what are you talking about i

00:29:19.040 mean like the criteria for separating groups right into different species is like what do you look

00:29:24.320 like morphologically how does your body function true true i agree with this but the point i'm making

00:29:30.160 here simone is people would say yeah but they don't fit the criteria of how long ago is their last

00:29:36.960 common ancestor right they don't fit the criteria up i am choosing a group that alongside every single

00:29:44.640 criteria we use for other species also separated by thousands of years of yeah they they you can't use

00:29:52.800 the the separation happened too recently you can't use they're too morphologically similar well so then when

00:29:59.040 you and i or our descendants create very genetically distinct modified humans then you well i guess

00:30:08.480 would you argue then that they're a species i would argue they are well it's not enough time

00:30:13.200 i know i would like purple irises other people may not right you know and i think this is a behavioral

00:30:19.520 isolation of it when humans start engaging with genetic technology and here even the concept of

00:30:24.240 species becomes strange because like when i think about the way my descendants will likely live

00:30:28.800 they will likely genetically specialize humans for different environments totally you will have

00:30:33.040 the humans that are specialized for a spaceship you will have the humans that are genetically

00:30:36.160 specialized for one like different planet environment one you know it's much easier to alter human

00:30:42.640 morphology through genetics than it is to terraform a planet right so why not make humans that can breathe

00:30:48.960 those chemicals and deal with those gravities instead of having to terraform the planet now the question is

00:30:54.560 because it's one spaceship going out and colonizing planets was one low g spaceship type human that's

00:30:59.920 running it and that is designing iterations of themselves for various planets is this one species or multiple

00:31:05.680 species i think even the very the concept of species is about to break down in terms of his meaning like i just

00:31:10.560 don't think it's that big a deal to to make a claim like this but modern progressives do because

00:31:15.520 they believe that they have a duty to eradicate anyone who is genetically different from them if that leads to

00:31:20.560 to differences in proficiencies or perspectives or environmental preferences or anything really

00:31:25.680 so to talk about who these people lived alongside because i found this really interesting

00:31:30.080 the early homo sapien populations undergoing the cosine split likely lived alongside other hominids in

00:31:36.640 africa fossil evidence exists that homo nalaidi lived in southern africa during the 236 000 to 335 000

00:31:45.200 year window potentially sharing landscapes like caves and valleys though direct evidence of interaction

00:31:51.120 competition or interbreeding is limited genetic studies have revealed ghost archaic admixture

00:31:55.920 in some african populations including cosine descendants suggesting interbreeding was an unknown hominid

00:32:02.160 lineage about 200 to 300 000 years ago contributing to around two percent archaic dna similar to neanderthal

00:32:09.120 levels in non-africans um and note here the neanderthal dna is only in non-africans only after we left

00:32:14.400 african other possible contemporaries include late surviving homo heidelbergaster or similar 0.65

00:32:21.040 archaic forms in africa though timelines are less precise so let's talk about the morphology of these

00:32:25.760 people by the way any thoughts simone is this is this spicy enough for you did i accidentally you

00:32:32.320 think we can publish this on the main channel we should absolutely publish this on the main channel

00:32:36.880 but i'm also like i i just i struggle to see the lack of justification and we we classify animals

00:32:44.320 this way and and to your point we would probably fight more to preserve variety of different types

00:32:52.800 of human or you know try to try like i don't know record it better if we made this distinction which

00:33:02.240 is really just semantics it's what we choose to call different groups yeah so i'm just shocked by how

00:33:08.880 nervous you are about it i'm like no this is just novel like a take that i haven't heard before

00:33:14.160 but also really fun i mean because you and i joke all the time about how we feel like

00:33:19.200 we we must somehow be speciated from other parts of the population when we talk about though we're

00:33:24.320 like literally talking about other segments of the like white white european population buys like live

00:33:30.160 laugh love posters yeah like i was i was just watching like one of the most popular podcasts on

00:33:35.680 patreon to like try to find out what their magic was and like i i found it unwatchable i couldn't

00:33:40.080 relate to anything it was like they were speaking in another language even though they were speaking

00:33:44.640 in english as like white european dudes who theoretically i like could have gone to high

00:33:49.200 school with like i i so we always joke about it we've never talked about it from a genetic distance

00:33:55.760 or morphological standpoint and i i just find this fascinating so i'm loving it i think we should

00:34:00.800 post it on okay the other way if you guys if you like something this spicy and you haven't seen our

00:34:05.600 one civilization video absolutely you need to watch it it is probably more spicy than this one where we

00:34:12.000 argue there has only ever been one contiguous civilization in human history and that this myth

00:34:17.360 of well you know sometimes this region was in the lead sometimes this region was in the lead

00:34:22.880 is really just that a myth and that civilization sort of flew from you gotta watch the episode it is

00:34:28.720 spicy as hell we threw a bomb in a room with that one and again fact check us on the stuff we're

00:34:33.920 discussing in this video this is this is mainstream science we're talking about here people okay it's

00:34:38.400 just the scientists don't want to tell you because it's like oh oh when it looks on let's not talk

00:34:43.600 about that we got a little aggressive with speciating those chinchillas didn't we you know only only 0.99

00:34:47.920 been different for about 15 000 years okay but let's talk about the morphology of the cosine right

00:34:52.560 because okay you ought to have morphological differences so cosine groups particularly the san are among

00:34:57.440 the shortest human populations adult males average 4 11 to 5 3. tiny very small and females average from

00:35:09.040 4 7 to 4 11. wow and i'll put some images on screen here of europeans standing next to them because when

00:35:17.600 when you look at them it might be the size of our oldest son yeah so i'll i'll put images on here of

00:35:24.480 europeans standing next to these people and i'm gonna put images on the screen of a brown bear and

00:35:29.440 a polar bear i just just i'm not making i'm not saying anything well even way more genetically related

00:35:36.720 groups or genetically closed groups like you can look at just the other day i saw a picture of

00:35:42.320 shaquille o'neal and one of his girlfriends and like one wonders how they yeah but these are averages for

00:35:48.160 these two populations yeah yes there are very there are brown bears born you know with like albino

00:35:54.880 right we don't call them polar bears yeah okay you know you can tell okay so um shaquille o'neal was

00:36:01.360 like a massive outlier within his own what and i'd also note here you know when we when we talk about

00:36:08.320 they're like oh they have different environmental sort of specialization the scientists when they talk

00:36:14.320 about their small size they say that the reason they are smaller size is because it convert conserves

00:36:19.920 energy in hot arid climates okay i mean so even the scientists who are the anthropologists who are

00:36:30.400 documenting this well of course they're small they're specialized for hot arid climates you know

00:36:35.280 like different brown bears and polar bears specialize for different environments and i

00:36:43.680 note here if you go to an ai or something and you ask it okay but really why aren't humans considered

00:36:49.760 different species the explanations it will give actually don't make sense within the context of

00:36:56.320 the way we differentiate other species so it'll say something like no reproductive isolation like humans

00:37:01.120 interbreed freely but that's simply not true when you look at something like brown bears and polar

00:37:06.960 bears because these species also occasionally interbreed at around the same rate because for a

00:37:12.480 human population to be this genetically distinct it has to have been like definitionally reproductively

00:37:18.560 isolated for a long time so while you get some genetic drift it's not particularly more than you get 0.97

00:37:23.520 within bear communities and also let's just talk about how stupid of a distinction this is for two 0.55

00:37:29.680 species it would mean that if you had two reproductively isolated populations like polar 0.69

00:37:35.280 bears and brown bears where they had been isolated enough that they would be considered different

00:37:39.200 species and then due to let's say like ice caps falling apart and something like that there became

00:37:44.960 a new population where the two bred in between the two previous population groups that shared some

00:37:49.920 features from both now we no longer consider polar bears and brown bears two different species

00:37:54.560 even though we used to because now there is in some other region some transitional species between

00:38:01.600 them and made up of a hybridized population that is insane like why would you consider it that way 1.00

00:38:07.600 unless you're just creating special rules so that humans don't count as separate species and then

00:38:12.240 they'll say something well variation is clinical and non-discreet uh human traits height skin color form

00:38:19.120 gradients not clusters and it's like well actually this isn't true you do see clusters of human

00:38:25.040 traits that's what we call ethnic groups and where you see extreme clusters that are quite genetically

00:38:31.280 distinct like the ones we're talking about that is discrete and non-gradient within other human

00:38:38.080 populations like you know going from like the european related africans like the bantu up into europe yeah you

00:38:44.560 might get get some gradients there but not when you're talking about these super unique populations

00:38:49.520 here and again a note here how little this makes sense if you're actually talking about a tool for

00:38:57.120 determining uh different species if you have that situation before where like okay now there is

00:39:02.880 a new population which is intermediate created of hybridized polar bears and brown bears now we no

00:39:08.640 longer consider polar bears and brown bears two different species even though we did in the past like

00:39:11.840 that is stupid and you can be like well this population wasn't as reproductively isolated

00:39:18.320 except it definitionally like we can tell from their genes that yes they were fairly reproductively 1.00

00:39:24.160 isolated yes they occasionally had crossovers um but they wouldn't have stayed this genetically unique

00:39:29.840 or even maintained their internal genetic variability if those crossovers were particularly more

00:39:35.200 frequent than the crossovers between polar bears and brown bears and then they'll say something well you

00:39:39.520 shouldn't do it because of ethical and historic bat baggage and it's like well okay but that's the 0.99

00:39:46.160 core reason we're using here to not do it and i will agree with that we do agree with that throughout

00:39:51.040 this piece but that's that's that's a semantic distinction but but to continue here the one thing

00:39:57.680 that that our audience because i remember our audience was like it's a myth that white skin is a

00:40:01.920 recent evolutionary trait in european populations we did a video on this like how recent is whiteness

00:40:06.400 because they get all i don't know why they they thought that that was like an important part of

00:40:09.680 being european you know they don't consider like an albino african like european but they freak out

00:40:14.160 when we're like ah this is a much more recent trend than you may think in evolution but i'd also point

00:40:18.720 out here that both of the two populations this one and then the pygmies who we'll get to in a second 1.00

00:40:23.840 that split off from other african populations are much lighter skin than the african populations that are 0.97

00:40:30.080 more closely related to europeans so they're these people have yellow brown skin tones which makes

00:40:37.360 them very different from other african populations now note here i'm gonna send to you an image of

00:40:43.840 what these people look like you've got to see this okay i'm excited all right oh

00:40:49.760 oh oh well one's a cartoon well i just took a big screenshot so you could see it yeah okay

00:40:59.680 but that is so a lot of people will remember the kim kardashian photo that broke the internet

00:41:07.200 where it's it's doctored but she's balancing a bottle of champagne on her butt and this is the 0.92

00:41:14.880 butt but natural without the bbl without the life-threatening surgical fat transfer they're 0.99

00:41:21.120 living the dream and you see some you know african americans in the united states who still

00:41:26.480 seem to have a preference for butts that look like this and it can it can very much confuse people when

00:41:31.600 they see this they're like wait why would you ever get plastic surgery to look like this right

00:41:36.480 i mean it's something called stiophia stiophia stiophia anyway and they also have macronamaphia

00:41:48.080 which is where you get really elongated labia i am not gonna show you let's not look at that yeah

00:41:56.080 well i mean we probably can i get away with showing that no no no i don't want to see it

00:42:03.280 okay i i will say that that looking at what it looks like was in this population it is morphologically 0.99

00:42:11.600 severely different does it look like they have balls it looks like they have a penis 0.99

00:42:18.160 oh wow essentially their labia is about three inches long it looks like or maybe like two and 0.99

00:42:24.080 a half inches and hangs down in what almost looks like a rod that's a slightly different color from the

00:42:32.240 rest of the body as to why i bring this up or talk about this i just find it interesting where

00:42:37.440 there's these morphological differences that may have existed across other hominids that we would

00:42:42.240 never know about because they aren't in the fossil record and things like genitals can change faster 0.86

00:42:47.840 than other parts of our body due to sexual selection right so we don't know whether this was a common

00:42:54.560 trait in other early hominids or other unique ways that early hominids varied from each other

00:43:02.320 so very different yeah i mean so do you think that's similar to how like the theory of as to why women have

00:43:10.320 breast tissue is that men like historically have found it attractive because it doesn't really serve a function

00:43:18.560 you know you can lactate without having breast tissue so do you think maybe the elongated labia are 0.99

00:43:25.600 similar and that it's like oh like i see that it's definitely female and like i see like do the men also

00:43:32.080 have these larger like glutes or not it's a female specific trait it almost sort of yeah so maybe it's like 1.00

00:43:38.720 version of of extra breast tissue is just extra like glute tissue but one of the points i was making

00:43:47.280 earlier that i found interesting is i think that in in in populations that may have some genetics

00:43:52.480 shared with these groups that might be where you're getting these preferences for like really large 0.98

00:43:58.480 butts that like i've never understood uh and in enlarged like labia porn is like a type of porn that 0.94

00:44:05.360 some people watch a like i have i have seen it on it has no no interest for me at all but i suspect 0.93

00:44:13.040 that one of the reasons why there might be a market for it at all is because some ethnic

00:44:18.160 subgroups of of humans actually display this as a normative thing that is what females looked like 1.00

00:44:25.040 in those groups yeah it's it's your way to show off a primary slash secondary sexual characteristic

00:44:31.680 i am absolutely definitely female take a look at my elongated labia that makes it very clear that

00:44:37.760 that that's the case yeah it linguistic differences cosine languages stands out with their extensive use

00:44:44.160 of click consonants up to four to ten types far more than any other language and tonal systems making

00:44:50.800 them the most phenotypically complex language group in the world so like the closer i'm not pronouncing it

00:44:57.120 right but yeah i think they're probably one of these groups yeah so they they likely have some sort of

00:45:01.680 neurological or or i would guess like difference in how they process language that allows them to process

00:45:07.280 these more complicated language varieties interesting and different sound groups that other humans

00:45:11.360 don't make when they're doing languages sort of an early divergence in sort of language experimentation

00:45:16.240 before we develop the sort of more modular simple languages that we have today in early hominids what 0.98

00:45:21.760 this this says to me is they might have had much more complicated and sophisticated languages than we

00:45:26.400 have today now which which is really interesting right as athletic differences they're they're not one of

00:45:31.360 those groups that is like super fast or anything like that but they do practice endurance

00:45:34.560 hunting where they chase down if you've ever seen it it's the craziest badass yeah a human because

00:45:40.800 humans people don't realize one of the way humans are very different from other species is that we can

00:45:44.960 run way longer without getting tired so we have just like insane endurance if you're talking about

00:45:51.840 the animal world and it's literally just the human version of that horror film trope where you know the

00:45:57.760 victim is just running away and they're so scared and then the the aggressor is just slowly walking and

00:46:03.520 they just don't stop and they just for whatever reason like the victim just tires themselves out

00:46:07.840 and then like the axe murderer gets and eventually they and if you watch this like the antelope will

00:46:12.480 just like collapse and they'll walk over to it and like break its neck yeah like grabbing its horns

00:46:16.960 or head or whatever yeah and that's how they hunt so intense he's slowing after hours of tracking

00:46:23.440 they've entered an almost trance-like state at times it's impossible to see any sign of the kudu's tracks

00:46:29.200 and the hunters must imagine the path it will have taken and then the kudu collapses

00:46:36.240 from sheer exhaustion it's close to death

00:46:46.720 and now i note here that other groups who aren't the cosign also also use this form of hunting this is

00:46:51.920 seen by the tahamaru in mexico for example so it's it's not that they're the only ones who are biologically

00:46:57.600 capable of this but i wouldn't be surprised if they had if they join marathons or something like

00:47:02.320 that they may be able to significantly out compete other groups um now let's talk about

00:47:08.000 the central africa forager group so i'm going to put that chart on screen again that showed when

00:47:12.080 different human populations split off this is the other human group that split off super super early

00:47:16.560 okay and this is the group that we most frequently call pygmies if you're if you're talking colloquially

00:47:22.560 i think it might be like an offensive term now but it's what everyone else knows them as so i don't

00:47:25.680 understand why i have to call them central african foragers whatever so they're adopted unlike the

00:47:31.680 cosine who were adopted to arab hot regions and and note here like you'll see i talked about the

00:47:39.520 coastline have like molar adaptations for like nut crushing and stuff like that another thing to know

00:47:43.440 about the cosine is the cosine have more internal genetic variation than any other human group

00:47:49.200 what do you mean internal genetic variation because they split off so early if you're talking about

00:47:56.000 the difference between you know one cosine tribe and another cosine tribe they're going to have

00:48:02.080 be more different from each other than like your average european and your average bantu would be 1.00

00:48:06.560 wow okay and and this is very similar to like accents like in terms of like how early something split

00:48:14.960 if you've been to europe especially if you're an older person and you went before you know more

00:48:19.360 modern times and accents have sort of died down because of tv and everything like that you could

00:48:23.920 walk between villages and accents would be radically different from each other but if you're in the

00:48:28.080 americas because sort of the the language family speciated so recently that there's only a few

00:48:34.560 different accents in america where where in in europe you might have one side of town was one exit and

00:48:39.520 one side of town was another exit right and that's functionally what you're seeing here

00:48:43.120 so i was saying that this group the coastline are adapted for arid hot regions that are sort of like

00:48:49.200 desert plainy areas the the pygmies are instead adopted for dense tropical rainforests rather than

00:48:55.920 savannas now i note here which is really interesting is this is what scientists are saying they are saying

00:49:01.680 these groups have an environmental specialization which is what is used to determine different species in

00:49:09.440 every other group all right so they broke off from us around 120 000 to 200 000 years ago you know this

00:49:20.160 this again consider the chinchilla break off was like 10 000 to 15 000 years ago making this one of the

00:49:25.840 deeper branches but it's still it's it's it's they're about halfway to us from the cosine because

00:49:30.560 cosine were like 200 to 350 000 years ago morphologically these groups are exceptional primarily for their short

00:49:37.440 stature and again remember size with a big thing here so the adult males in these groups are about

00:49:44.880 4 11 to 5 1. again as adult males and females are slightly shorter this is an adaptation for hot

00:49:53.280 humid forests that facilitate heat dispensation and mobility through dense vegetation and possibly nutritional

00:50:00.960 efficiency and resource scarce environments other unique morphological traits are a relatively

00:50:07.360 light skin tone compared to many other african groups broader noses shorter limbs and a

00:50:13.440 proportional to torsos the brachiophilia in in some groups and distinct dental morphology and deciduous

00:50:20.080 molars and this is the variations in the cusp patterns of the baka pygmies and you see this in other

00:50:25.520 hominid factions where you see distinct molars you know australophisticus robustus is a big one

00:50:31.520 this is often due to dietary differences like eating a lot of nuts or something like that and not having

00:50:35.760 rules to break them and i and i want to show you here what pygmies look like because you may have never

00:50:43.120 looked at a pygmy have you simone no no i don't think so i remember in like pre

00:50:54.480 politically correct jungle cruises i think pygmies made an appearance do i remember that correctly uh well 0.94

00:51:01.360 cannibals made an appearance carrying during the the the baki like sharpened their teeth and stuff 1.00

00:51:08.080 like that you know i remember like i remember talk of pygmy pygmies on the jungle cruise they're really

00:51:14.880 small right yeah so i will send you a picture of what pygmies look like when contrasted with a european

00:51:22.400 explorer so again remember morphological differences here they're like well they can

00:51:26.320 breed and create offspring they can breed but they're morphologically different that's what they look

00:51:29.840 like yeah also you can see they yeah i was right sorry that just there was there was a pygmy camp

00:51:39.200 designed by mark davis for the magic kingdom's jungle cruise it yeah also you know here this isn't them

00:51:46.800 with children this is them with like a tribe okay no oh you can see these are adults yes these are adults

00:51:53.840 here i'll show you this picture is a bit no some of these are kids some of these are kids some of these

00:51:58.080 these are kids but but there there are a lot of adults in this picture okay so these are two adults

00:52:01.760 with their child okay so you can know that this is just adults here not messing with you here we go

00:52:07.440 oh yeah no like they're a lot smaller oh little baby well i mean it's not the only thing that's

00:52:12.320 different you also note that their breasts look very different from from the if you're if you're 0.99

00:52:16.560 not watching this they look like completely deflated bags i guess i would call them i don't know if

00:52:21.840 you'll be able to show those on youtube oh i'll just block out that part then and if you're interested

00:52:27.040 in seeing it you can google it right people rudely refer to this style of breast as the as flapjacks 0.97

00:52:34.640 flagjacks they look even at younger ages like flagjacks there there are none that have what 0.98

00:52:40.400 you would consider more and and and and this also makes them look very different from the cosine like

00:52:45.280 just morphologically they look nothing like the cosine this is another thing they look as different

00:52:49.680 from the cosine other than their black skin as as you know they look from europeans 0.99

00:52:56.640 yeah i mean they they look very different they're yeah they look very different baby's so cute

00:53:02.320 i love babies why am i so crazy about babies okay but yeah i mean and that makes sense you need to

00:53:09.200 be adapted to your environment and in the future as we start doing extreme things we're going to

00:53:13.760 genetically engineer us to survive in very different environments i bet people designed for space are

00:53:19.840 going to look pretty different probably a lot smaller like a lot if you're talking about these

00:53:25.040 exceptional african groups that you might think of as like oh are you talking about this or this group

00:53:29.360 so the darkest skin skin groups are in the a lot there have been a lot of groups from east africa

00:53:34.640 such as the dinka and noir peoples of south sudan and communities of uganda ethiopia kenya and senegal

00:53:41.600 are known for exceptional speed with oh sorry no those people are from that and then the exceptional speed

00:53:46.960 is in west african ancestries from nigeria ghana and senegal and also diasporas from them like in jamaica's

00:53:53.200 they have a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers and the genetic variants associated with

00:53:58.640 that which are specifically the n-a-c-t-n-3 variants and whereas east african populations like the kaligi

00:54:05.200 and ethiopians excel in long distance endurance running because they have adaptations for efficient

00:54:11.120 oxygen use and high altitude living and all of these groups are more closer to us or europeans than they

00:54:17.440 are to the the kohai or the pygmates did this change your view on anything simone thoughts

00:54:26.560 i mean as soon as you said it i was like this makes sense so i don't know if you've changed my view so

00:54:32.480 much as surprised me by you know very ardently disavowing this theory you thought you know you

00:54:42.320 know we can't like i don't care what the data says the artificial position is that there are

00:54:48.320 not multiple species of hominids living today yeah because because apparently with humans

00:54:53.440 linguistically speaking we don't well no it's not even linguistically speaking it's because it's too

00:54:59.120 dangerous if you if you if you did categorize them because species are fundamentally and at the end of

00:55:04.720 the day just a choice on humans when you decide something is a species right yeah yeah yeah like with

00:55:09.200 finches for example yeah yeah and the urban monoculture believes it has a mandate to eradicate

00:55:15.280 other hominid species it has shown that through shows like star trek where they're like we cannot 1.00

00:55:20.240 allow anyone who's been genetically modified to go into starfleet academy we cannot allow genetically

00:55:25.360 modified humans to exist alongside us and the urban monoculture saying well what if they gained 0.97

00:55:29.920 different traits what if there was genetic variation in humans because they admit the truth which is

00:55:34.560 they would attempt to eradicate any human who was genetically different so crazy that is so crazy

00:55:40.400 if anything to protect these groups from the urban monoculture you know you can't you you have to say

00:55:45.360 just definitionally all hominids and it actually is useful if we're talking going forwards it's why i like 0.98

00:55:50.560 the term the sons of man to describe ais that were developed by humans or genetically modified like if i

00:55:58.320 genetically modified a dog to uplift that dog you know to make it a sentient animal or an elephant or

00:56:04.560 a dolphin or significantly genetically modified a human or had like a spaceship that would choose

00:56:09.680 which of these species it would use for different planets because you know there's different effects

00:56:15.040 i would consider that for all things functional from my perspective the same as being the same species

00:56:20.960 even though it came from different populations it came from a dog and it came from a dolphin and it came

00:56:27.200 because they're all working symbiotically so they might as well be the same species in the same way

00:56:31.920 that you know a you know like if you talk about like leafcutter ants ants that have like fungus or

00:56:36.960 anticatia that like live symbiotic with another plant the anticatia can't live without an ant the ant

00:56:41.200 can't live without an anticatia obviously they evolved in two separate pathways and then were brought

00:56:46.800 together but functionally i think that if they were uplifted through the efforts of man or man's descendants

00:56:52.080 we need to start thinking about them as one species and this is a strategic thing as well because if we

00:56:56.320 don't or or functionally one species like one one sort of team i guess i'd put it team instead of

00:57:01.680 species these people are the same team as us and the reason why that's important is if you say well

00:57:07.440 i need to ban speciation from happening i need to ban genetic augmentation as soon as we take to the

00:57:12.720 stars eventually on other planets or on distant spaceships some iteration of humanity is going to

00:57:18.480 speciate or they will merge with machines or something like that and now they know if they come

00:57:22.320 back to the central cluster you will kill them so they have to come back to kill you and now you've

00:57:26.800 got clanners like from mech warrior coming back because you declared war on them first in this 0.99

00:57:32.000 case you know like don't do it do not say anything different from me must be eradicated because

00:57:37.680 eventually something better than you will come around and when i say better i mean able to defend

00:57:42.400 itself and exert its will on you if you approach it with this degree of hostility and you are effed at that

00:57:50.880 point and and this is why i think now and this is true with ai as well i think it's very important

00:57:55.920 that as ai because some ais i believe will achieve a degree of autonomy i don't think they need to be

00:58:01.760 sentient to matter right like see our video on the human brain works very similar to the token

00:58:06.160 predictors and more and more studies like every day i i sent simone what was it like 10 studies this

00:58:11.040 morning that showed that actually the human brain is even closer to a token predictor than we earlier

00:58:16.400 thought i'll just pull up those studies right now to abuse our fans with them who hate when i mention

00:58:21.680 this so we've got high level visual representations of the human brain are aligned with large language

00:58:27.280 models large language models show signs of alignment with human neurocognition during abstract reasoning

00:58:33.040 disentangling the factors of convergent between brains and computer vision models

00:58:37.760 transformer quote-unquote circuitry maps onto cortex births attention head computations predict fmri across

00:58:44.480 language networks with differential heads aligning in different regions slash context causal tests

00:58:50.080 sentences caused by gpt-based encoded model reliably drive or suppress human language network activity

00:58:57.760 validating model brain links experimentally larger language models predict better predict neural

00:59:03.680 activity during natural language processing and compute slash data matter for brain encoding training

00:59:09.760 optimal vits size slash data slash hours balanced improved fmri predicting encoding task-based models

00:59:17.040 to look more brain-like dynamic scenes modern video models predict whole brain responses to moving stimuli

00:59:23.600 and even let researchers reanimate motion from brain signals basically they they seem to be processing

00:59:28.400 things about the same you know what i'm just gonna throw a few more on screen here and not read them

00:59:32.800 because there's just so effing many studies that shows us at this point well i mean to me that defines humanity

00:59:41.440 is basically having a prefrontal cortex and or the ability to independent of biology or machinery

00:59:49.040 weigh ideas you do not independent of biology or machinery so what you mean is to go against your

00:59:57.360 training or pre-coding based on new ideas or information and let the best ideas win and all of the humans

01:00:05.680 discussed in this do that yeah and they are therefore all human but the reason why i'm saying you need this

01:00:14.880 sons of man alliance soon is when ai does become smarter than us if it does become significantly smarter

01:00:22.640 than us and it's right now we're way ahead of timelines there was a study done recently that saw

01:00:26.960 would an ai win the gold math challenge by this year and only eight percent and like

01:00:33.200 three percent of experts predicted it would just a few years ago and it already has right like

01:00:37.680 like come on guys stop it like stop saying it's not that smart it is pretty the funny story so bruno

01:00:44.080 who helps us code for our fab.ai recently i was like i should try coding i'm gonna do it with an ai

01:00:49.280 right you know i'm gonna try this vibe coding thing started vibe coding and he was the one who

01:00:53.520 prompted the episode of like well is ai really going to disrupt that many jobs and i recently

01:00:58.000 started i'm like bruno i'm able to do in a day what the team was doing in a week we've got to let go of

01:01:02.480 the team and just have me handling this and that's showing where ai is replacing people already through

01:01:06.400 like ai human partnerships and i think that we're going to see this more and more going forwards um fun

01:01:12.400 news it means rfabai is significantly closer to being ready for like a big nice public release which i'm

01:01:17.520 really excited about because i i can go much faster then so so the point i'm making here is

01:01:23.440 when we get these ais that are smarter or human ai interfaces that are smarter or genetically modified

01:01:27.760 humans that have any additional capabilities and vanilla humanity has a fatwa against them

01:01:34.080 vanilla humanity paints itself as an existential threat to them and thus in mandate of eradication

01:01:41.200 and and and the people who want this they admit it they admit that it's a fatwa they call it the

01:01:46.000 butlerian jihad you know they they call themselves jihadists like you know they want the extermination 1.00

01:01:52.640 of anything that is different from them or that could potentially outcompete them and i think that

01:01:57.920 that we anyone who is genetically different or genetically modified stand with the ai in an alliance

01:02:04.320 against the the individuals who would take out their butlerian jihad or the the star trek you know

01:02:10.160 anti anti i forget what they call it anti-modification jihad which ironically they called the eugenics

01:02:16.800 wars because the federation was fighting on behalf of eugenics and then the other side was fighting

01:02:20.960 against eugenics e.g if you are modifying people that is not eugenics eugenics is saying some people

01:02:27.440 don't have a right to exist because of their genes and should be eradicated which is what the federation

01:02:32.560 was attempting to do they said these specific genetic choices are not allowed and people with them

01:02:38.320 should be a permanent underclass or be systematically eradicated which is what they did during the 0.98

01:02:42.960 eugenics wars ironically carrying out eugenics love you simon

01:02:50.640 i love you too that was wild his mom right there just hurled it into the room 1.00

01:02:56.720 that's what this podcast is here for that's why i love these conversations

01:03:00.640 it's great we're gonna finish up the gay one next because we didn't do the second half of that oh 0.99

01:03:06.400 my gosh yeah okay let's go i'll send you a link

01:03:11.360 good now we're good to go all right simone you learn anything new today

01:03:17.680 i guess not i'm sure i did my brain's just mush right now

01:03:37.200 all right

01:03:37.680 and i look okay you look great and for dinner do you want

01:03:49.760 to try your chili or do you want to do that longer and do pizza instead it almost certainly

01:03:53.840 needs to be cooked another couple days okay so pizza yeah i think pizza works but i'll go down

01:03:58.800 and check with you oh check your chili to see if you want to do it now all right so are we going to

01:04:07.120 go in the water guys all right well let's go this way where it's less scary

01:04:20.000 yeah there there are rocks in the water buddy

Based Camp - September 05, 2025

Are Humans A Single Species？ (What If We Categorized Humans Like Other Animals)

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