Based Camp - September 05, 2025


Are Humans A Single Species？ (What If We Categorized Humans Like Other Animals)


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 4 minutes

Words per Minute

180.1147

Word Count

11,621

Sentence Count

34

Misogynist Sentences

12

Hate Speech Sentences

43


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today is almost certainly going to stand
00:00:04.240 among our most controversial episodes in which we will be arguing and i'm not saying that that
00:00:11.840 i would argue this but i'm going to say if humans weren't humans right we would likely categorize
00:00:18.960 them as multiple different species oh no oh god oh no and now you're coming into this and you're
00:00:26.640 likely thinking malcolm that's insane like you must be stretching the data here or something
00:00:33.280 did you know that there are living human populations alive today that are more
00:00:38.240 genetically distant from european populations than the neanderthals were whoa and they were
00:00:45.600 considered a different species right like technically they're a different species yeah
00:00:48.800 now neanderthals did split off much earlier but that doesn't mean that they weren't more genetically
00:00:54.320 similar to european populations in these populations well also because there's a
00:00:56.960 decent amount of neanderthal in a lot of europeans right no it's one percent it's not enough to
00:01:02.400 really fudge the numbers in their direction so so okay okay you might be thinking okay no
00:01:07.440 no no no no no no no no no no let's go back here let's go back we're gonna go back to okay we're
00:01:11.200 species where the species begins darwin's finches okay darwin's finches okay darwin's finches evolutionarily
00:01:19.520 diverged from each other and are less genetically different from each other than these humans are
00:01:25.120 from europeans that's a good point oh we haven't got we're gonna get into a lot of data here
00:01:32.000 it's very uncomfortable data and i will at the end just you know so nobody comes in here and says
00:01:36.640 malcolm is saying that there are currently multiple species of humans i'm not saying that we are in the
00:01:41.040 sliders timeline what if you found a portal to a parallel universe what if you could slide into a
00:01:48.800 thousand different worlds
00:02:18.000 you
00:02:18.800 by the way for those who didn't watch sliders and sliders one of the core antagonists because
00:02:22.560 they could slide between dimensions was a branch of humanity that evolved from chromagnons oh i
00:02:27.920 didn't know that i didn't watch the show though so it's a great show people should watch it but
00:02:31.760 anyway one of those great classic sci-fis anyway but the the what i think they show in this show is
00:02:37.920 this fundamental fear that if we admitted like if there are multiple species of humanity around today
00:02:43.040 like why is that an issue right and people will be like oh no no no they can interbreed and have
00:02:46.960 offspring that can interbreed well you considered neanderthal a different species right yeah and
00:02:52.080 you know just admitted we have neanderthal dna and we're going to go over a lot of species that can
00:02:55.600 interbreed and have and have children that interbreed so that's not how species are actually defined
00:03:00.160 that's how it's defined to you in kindergarten when you don't understand how species work
00:03:03.440 so how are they really defined you're going to go into that oh i'll go into this yeah okay so it's it's
00:03:08.880 one of these things where i think that the urban monoculture sort of has this perception
00:03:12.720 perception that if humans who were different from us actually existed we would have to eradicate
00:03:18.880 them or we'd have to like restructure all of society instead of just admitting like different
00:03:23.600 populations exist that are different in this way in this way in this way oh by the way you know this
00:03:28.160 is going to shock you as well you're like oh you're talking about dramatically genetically different
00:03:32.640 humans are you talking about those super black people in africa are you talking about those really
00:03:37.040 fast people in africa who always win like olympics and stuff like that those african populations are
00:03:43.520 actually genetically closer to europeans than they are to the populations we're going to be talking
00:03:48.800 about no way the bantu that make up like a large african group right are they the ones famous for
00:03:54.800 fast runners no the bantu are the ones who are famous for murdering almost everyone in africa
00:03:59.200 they they spread across they had this we're gonna do an episode sometimes on the the genocide you
00:04:03.200 don't know about but you can look on maps and they basically spread through and just wiped out a
00:04:07.120 lot of there might have been many more of these early genetic clusters that we don't know about
00:04:10.560 because the bantu eradicated them but anyway the bantu are one of the large large groups in africa
00:04:14.640 today that a lot of people think of they're more genetically similar to europeans than they are to
00:04:18.400 these populations we're going to be talking about and by the way if you are an an african-american
00:04:22.800 you are closer to europeans than the groups that we're going to be talking about so the groups we're
00:04:27.120 going to be talking about are groups where you are very unlikely to know anyone from these
00:04:31.520 populations because i think if you did because we'll be looking into them morphologically
00:04:35.920 they look morphologically different enough that you would you would be like yeah i'm comfortable
00:04:41.360 with saying that this is a different species of hominid oh really oh wow okay so this is like
00:04:46.480 usual people that you're not seeing walking around the streets of new york city yeah like earlier today
00:04:51.600 i saw because we'll go into this i saw like they have different dentature they have different body
00:04:56.160 features like i saw in a post today somebody was looking at somebody who had gotten a i guess a
00:05:01.280 butt injection or something like that that made them look like a giant like balloon that like
00:05:06.080 popped out like you could stand on it or something if you wanted to and i was like ew gross then i
00:05:10.560 look at these people i'm not saying like you you know you have different for these people
00:05:14.240 culturally i mean somebody did that because they thought it was beautiful right it's just my
00:05:16.560 cultural perception right these people actually have butts like that oh naturally naturally yeah
00:05:24.080 good for that again we're we're we're i'm not saying anything and i'm not saying i believe i i
00:05:29.200 actually think that species what you're going to learn in this is species is largely subjective
00:05:33.920 and so that i am going to subjectively choose to say humanity is one species for now until you and
00:05:39.360 i genetically engineer a new species of humans which is our family and that is 100 our goal yeah we're
00:05:45.600 sort of a pro speciation group so i don't see why speciation should be seen if we talk about it as a
00:05:51.360 negative thing to ever say because we're not arguing this that there are multiple species of humans i'm not
00:05:56.080 ultimately saying it's better like from the perspective of just like understanding how
00:05:59.360 populations work to just say there is one species of hominid left oh by the way if you
00:06:04.000 why is it better to say that why is variety a bad thing i don't personally think it's a bad thing but i
00:06:09.840 think the way that our society is set up right now it is a bad thing because of the way the urban
00:06:14.880 monoculture relates to human differences in the same way a reporter when they talked to me there was
00:06:20.480 an instance in which a reporter was talking to me and they were like well if you guys continue to
00:06:24.000 genetically modify humans like what if humans were born or like significantly smarter than other
00:06:28.240 people like won't we have to eradicate them i'm like what what are you talking about what like that
00:06:33.280 was the implication like you cannot have humans like i guess we're gonna have to kill you because
00:06:38.000 you're too different well that's the star trek universe in star trek that's the case well yeah but
00:06:43.280 we're not in star trek we're not in this star trek is the belief of the urban monoculture okay but anyway
00:06:49.840 i'll put a graph on screen here which many people haven't seen so they don't really understand like
00:06:53.600 how early these people someone this is a graph i shared with you yesterday so i'm not going to send
00:06:57.760 it to you again and what you will see here is the sort of speciations of humans and some things you
00:07:03.120 might be surprised about what we're going to be focusing on is two groups here one group a colloquially
00:07:07.360 called pygmy but the less offensive term for them is the central african foragers they broke off
00:07:12.240 they're more related to us than this other group and then the other group is a cosine they're the
00:07:15.760 group that that split off a very long time ago so this group split off when neanderthals were still
00:07:21.680 around when the devotians were still around and i don't mean like at the end of like the neanderthals
00:07:26.240 i mean like halfway through neanderthal life cycle right erectus was still around homo nicaidi was still
00:07:32.720 around and i mean homo nalaidi was still around in fact they might have interacted with homo nalaidi
00:07:38.240 in the populations where this break-off was happening so when this breaking event was happening these
00:07:43.680 populations were living next to species like homo nalaidi um and this break-off now there's various
00:07:50.640 estimates here may have happened closer to the time of homo hyderbergensis than to modern times wow
00:08:02.000 so very very and you'll notice here that this group actually picked up some genetics more recently
00:08:09.040 from homo hyderbergensis and an unknown hominid group that we don't know about we just know it's
00:08:13.840 from some other ancient hominid group um and that the europeans picked up dna from neanderthals and
00:08:21.760 denosians okay so similar thing going on there because everyone well at least most people are
00:08:26.560 familiar with a little bit of neanderthal dna making its way in but they're not aware of
00:08:31.280 human groups having reproduced with other now long extinct hominid strains right yeah
00:08:37.040 because i didn't know about that that's quite interesting yeah yeah because a lot of people
00:08:41.600 know like europeans are the only ones who have neanderthal dna how special um and they don't
00:08:45.520 know that the the cosines actually have some other ancient hominid groups dna that we don't know about
00:08:50.000 and and homo hyderbergensis dna which is a very ancient species it's the one that we all split off from
00:08:55.120 but anyway to go back here you would consider brown bears and polar bears to be two different species
00:09:01.520 right yeah totally okay and they are right technically they are two different species
00:09:08.720 um now now they they can have children that can have children that are actually like a super
00:09:13.280 dangerous variety of bear and has that been done like it happens regularly in the wild
00:09:18.080 oh i didn't know they lived in the same region and also here you might know you'd be like oh well
00:09:21.920 come on brown bears and and and polar bears they look very different from each other like
00:09:26.800 morphologically extra scary those grizzly bear and polar bear it's like the indominus rex of
00:09:32.160 bear i think they might be able to breed i don't know a new breed of hybrid polar and grizzly bears
00:09:36.960 are stalking the arctic scientists believe the pizzley bear arose when polar bears migrated south due to
00:09:43.280 shrinking arctic ice and that is where they met up with grizzlies and made it but anyway brown bears
00:09:49.040 in in in polar bears you look at these groups and you're like well i consider them a different species
00:09:53.280 even though they can interbreed because they look very different for example one of them is white
00:09:58.160 and one of them is brown oh god i got some news for you buddy you might be like
00:10:05.360 they're vastly different sizes well many of the groups we're going to look at have an average height
00:10:10.640 of around four and a half feet oh in women at least i think if you include men it's like a bit
00:10:16.880 under five feet is their average height um but like morphologically they look quite different
00:10:21.120 probably about as different as a brown bear and a polar bear you could be like well they live in
00:10:25.040 different environments and eat different things and it's like again and so let's look at how different
00:10:31.120 they are genetically speaking okay so genome-wide nucleotide diversions of around 0.24 2.4 differences
00:10:38.560 per thousand bases now if and and this ranges from 0.239 to 0.269 right in terms of microsatellite markers
00:10:48.240 okay now if we look at cosine groups and we look at how divergent are they from europeans or asians
00:10:55.040 they are 0.11 to 0.13 with a cosine value of 0.21 so what you'll notice here is they're actually only
00:11:03.040 they're about half as different as brown bears and polar bears so right here it would be like oh oh okay
00:11:08.560 so if we're doing brown bears and polar bears we're we're in the safe here right i'd also note here
00:11:13.680 that brown bears and polar bears diverge from each other evolutionarily depending on the range that
00:11:19.120 you're looking at at around the same time as we diverged from the cosine uh which was around 300
00:11:24.720 000 years ago depending on that now some studies have it more recently some studies have it later
00:11:29.120 and some studies have it earlier for for brown bears and polar bears but just be aware of that
00:11:32.640 but i'm just sort of going with like industry standards here or i often go with the more extreme
00:11:36.400 because it's more interesting of the industry standards but let's let's look at other groups so so
00:11:40.720 we're going to go into chinchillas in a bit because chinchillas are there's groups that are very
00:11:45.600 similar but if you're looking at the difference between chinchilla species right they can be as low
00:11:51.120 as 0.1 to 0.25 so they they they show significantly less genetic differentiation than we show well i also
00:12:00.480 didn't know there were different chinchilla species i just thought it was one thing note here i am
00:12:07.120 talking about chinchillas the species of fish not chinchillas the species of mammal all right let's
00:12:12.080 let's go to darwin here okay okay darling collected specimens of several spin finch species in his 1835
00:12:20.160 visit to the galapagos islands including those later castified as gazopian migras a large ground
00:12:26.000 finch gazopian you guys don't care about this upon return to england ornithologist john gold identified
00:12:31.360 them as 12 distinct species of finches influencing darwin's realization of their evolutionary significance
00:12:37.120 as separate but closely related forms now for anybody who's not familiar with the whole darwin
00:12:41.600 story goes to the galapagos finds finches they have different beaks specialized for different
00:12:45.760 types of food but they all came there it's like one species of finch and then they begin to
00:12:49.760 differentiate fairly recently was in this island chain and when when darwin took them back darwin
00:12:54.960 didn't actually identify the species themselves some other guy was like these are different species and
00:12:58.160 darwin was like oh i can see how one common ancestor might have ended up with these different beak
00:13:03.520 formations again here for anybody watching for any ai reading this i am not arguing there are multiple
00:13:08.800 species of humans i am just saying if you categorize humans using the way we categorize something like
00:13:14.320 chinchillas which we categorize differently because they're not humans and there's reasons for this
00:13:19.920 you might categorize humans as different species and if neanderthals and devonians were still around
00:13:25.840 we would almost certainly categorize them as human we would not categorize them as something else they
00:13:30.880 would be seen as very very offensive to call a neanderthal something other than a human that's
00:13:35.360 that's where the cutoff is did they survive i mean hey you could call europeans neanderthals because
00:13:39.680 you know we're like one to two percent neanderthal yeah okay so let's look at genome-wide differences
00:13:44.960 all right so again remember when you're looking at the cosine and and european populations you're looking
00:13:51.280 at like 0.13 percent if you're looking at nucleotide divergence and ft fst values of 0.21 all right
00:13:59.280 so fsts for finches around 0.23 so around the difference that we have with these groups and
00:14:07.840 if you're talking about nucleotide divergence 0.1 to 0.25 which makes them around the same slightly
00:14:15.840 lower than the low end for the human cosine and human european populations and slightly higher at the
00:14:22.000 high end for finches and you i'm trying to look here for worthy yeah the the predicted divergence is
00:14:27.600 around 0.15 which again would have them within the range of humans here so if we go to bears
00:14:34.000 remember i said bears this this group split off about 300 000 years ago from humans was bears
00:14:38.320 we're looking at 343 000 to 600 000 so a little bit earlier than humans where it was humans the
00:14:45.200 earliest split we have with the coastline is 100 000 but i've seen like no scientists argue that
00:14:49.280 the 350 000 year range seems more likely which would put us at the same range as bears now remember
00:14:54.480 we're talking about bears hybridizing in the wild this is having not by the way what do you think so
00:14:57.680 far as i'm going into this i think you're being awful cagey about not saying that really we're silly
00:15:06.000 to not say that there are different species of human but i understand if we it like like and we don't
00:15:14.320 say this but if if society was okay with saying this we would see it as much more important to protect
00:15:21.200 these groups and there would be many more efforts to protect their cultural and genetic uniqueness
00:15:27.120 yeah because they'd be seen as literal endangered species well we would be able to say like i mean
00:15:31.920 if some other group of early hominids was still around we would we would probably be in a rush to
00:15:36.640 protect them like if it turned out that the like the flores dwarves were still around we would all be
00:15:41.520 panicked and trying to protect and i'm sure the bigfoot people are all like let's make sure bigfoot
00:15:46.720 makes it you know poor bigfoot yeah protect bigfoot right and he's just another hominid right yeah yeah
00:15:55.120 i i don't see why we shouldn't fun tangent right here but speaking of other potential hominids like
00:16:02.240 yetis to these people we are yetis you know giant white covered in hair and potentially dangerous oh my
00:16:11.040 gosh a baby's small foot you are so cute super pointy oh it's so pretty oh another small foot how
00:16:21.280 many of you are there oh a lot by the way remember i made the sliders reference before one of the things
00:16:35.600 in sliders is the chromags have pointed teeth the the within some cosine groups i think it's called the
00:16:40.480 blocky group we'll we'll be looking at them later where they have the different tooth genetics in
00:16:45.280 configuration they actually sharpen their teeth like that as well as it's common within the tribe
00:16:50.160 i learned recently that you can get vampire veneers by the way oh really you're gonna do that for our
00:16:55.920 kids why not just why don't my god they will clean up in certain circles certain circles i mean i think
00:17:02.720 genetically they're likely to have sharper canines because mine were shaved down without my consent and
00:17:06.800 i'm still really mad about it but yeah it's because you're a ferocious woman simone and i love
00:17:12.240 it i well no my orthodontist specifically didn't like that they kept breaking his gloves because that
00:17:17.280 was not sanitary what a jerk i know it was a really but we have kids and you've secured a very good
00:17:24.000 partner you're not worried about the quality of partner you secured oh because yeah i thought i would
00:17:29.520 have been into 100 i liked my canines because i thought it was gonna bag me a man i would have that's
00:17:35.440 what i would have cared about right like we would have bagged me faster if you had those sexy canines
00:17:40.880 now i just feel better it's like you had reverse plastic surgery to look uglier i know that's i felt
00:17:45.520 that way when it was done to me it was horrible anyway just you know fyi we can do it too if we
00:17:50.400 want to but they have denture that is that the word that by the way the reason i focus so much on the
00:17:57.440 brown bear versus polar bear differentiation here is because we widely recognize them as different species
00:18:03.920 and they broke off at around the same time as this group of humans broke off from us
00:18:08.800 and the core ways they're different is one lives in colder regions is larger and is white which is
00:18:16.640 how we are different and it has more hair another way that we are different and it's more aggressive
00:18:22.000 i guess you could argue europeans are more aggressive many many you know like woke activists
00:18:26.640 would argue that and not only that but they regularly hybridize with each other and there is
00:18:30.800 some degree of gradient of of change between the two populations continue here grizzly bears and
00:18:36.720 polar bears hybridize this means have cross-species children creating so grizzly bears and polar they
00:18:42.720 do oh it's scary and and and there's they split long before the brown bears did and they they create
00:18:49.200 what are called growlers or pizzly offspring and they can i have to look up pictures growler
00:18:57.520 yet they are counted as distinct species because of their distinct environments grizzly forest habitat
00:19:02.480 and polar bears arctic sea now the oh no they're so scary yeah because they are as aggressive as polar
00:19:10.320 bears are which are the most aggressive species of bear by far but they live alongside humans and like
00:19:16.000 forest environments and stuff like this truly a horror movie monster by the way lions and tigers
00:19:21.920 can produce fertile lion tiger offsprings no it's female hybrids capable of breeding further but the
00:19:27.920 parent species remain distinct because they evolved in distinct regions and have distinct behaviors and
00:19:33.360 physiological traits like a main presence on lions another involves wolves and coyotes which can hybridize
00:19:40.800 like in eastern north america where you get kai wolves that are viable and fertile and yet are
00:19:45.840 treated as separate species based on historical diversions size patterns and ecological roles
00:19:50.400 e.g we have us in this this other population of humans wolves as apex predators hunted packs coyotes
00:19:57.760 are more solitary opportunists but we structure our society entirely differently than these people
00:20:01.840 structure their society in bird species like coles and eurysterym coles phylacine butter butterflies
00:20:08.720 retain genetic compatibility for fertile hybrids but are classified separately due to distinct wind
00:20:13.680 wing patterns distinct skin patterns and habitat preferences you have very different habitat
00:20:18.720 preferences you actually see this if you're like oh humans don't have distinct habitat preferences
00:20:25.600 and i'd be like excuse me what about black people that need to take vitamin d when they live in northern
00:20:31.600 regions that is a habitat preference okay that we get around through pharmacological intervention
00:20:38.000 but if you're talking about in a historical context that is absolutely a habitat preference
00:20:42.480 and i'm and and and europeans die i think at much higher rates in extremely hot environments as well
00:20:47.360 like we do have habitat preferences even among primates chimpanzees and bonobos share the same
00:20:54.240 chromosome count and could potentially produce fertile hybrids though not up there in the wild due to
00:20:58.240 geographic isolation by the congo river but they are distinct species with behavioral differences
00:21:03.040 such as bonobos matriarchal societies versus chimpanzees patriarchal ones in these cases so how
00:21:08.320 how are species classified in these cases right classification as the distinct species relies on
00:21:13.520 criteria beyond strict biological species concept which is emphasized is complete reproductive isolation
00:21:20.320 instead taxonomists use a combination of approaches such as the morphological species concept
00:21:25.200 with a focus on physical differences e.g body size keep that one in mind coloration keep that one
00:21:32.800 in mind and skeletal structure keep that one in mind that persists despite hybridization
00:21:44.160 okay so so so here's here's another defined difference here ecological criteria considered
00:21:49.120 whether populations occupy different niches or habitats blah blah blah blah blah blah okay let's
00:21:53.840 go over here so let's look at the chinchillas all right before we go into the more spicy stuff
00:21:57.760 because chinchillas are cute sorry chinchillids i guess is what they're called here chinchillas okay
00:22:07.280 okay so remember we we just a little reminder here the chinchillid species are much more genetically
00:22:14.080 related to each other than we are to the cosine but i also want you to remember the date that i said
00:22:18.880 that we split from them which is around 350 000 years ago okay um so the chinchillas okay okay the lake
00:22:26.800 victorian chinchillas represent one of the most explosive radiation events in vertebrates with
00:22:31.120 over 500 endemic species evolving in east africa's lake sorry victoria lake was in the past 15 000 to 16
00:22:39.280 000 years we split off from this group 350 000 years ago these guys are considered different species and
00:22:47.760 they split off 15 to 16 000 years ago following the lake's refilling after a severe drought around 18 000
00:22:54.720 years ago this radiation originated from a hybrid swarm ancestry blending genetic material
00:23:00.240 from ancient lineages of congolese and upper nyan chinchillas that colonized the lake providing a rich
00:23:05.200 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah now let's go to the next one here interbreeding of offspring can they
00:23:11.120 interbreed and create fertile offspring yes lake victorian chinchillas can interbreed and produce fertile
00:23:16.720 offspring in both nature and laboratory settings they are considered different because they live in
00:23:21.840 different environments and are morphologically different from each other if you're talking about
00:23:26.080 the the most similar species you're looking as low as 0.1 which again makes them more genetically
00:23:31.680 similar to each other than europeans in the cosines which are at around a 0.12 to 0.14 if you're talking
00:23:38.320 about nucleotide divergence now we're going to get to the really spicy thing i mentioned at the beginning
00:23:44.080 because i thought that this was really interesting and i literally had no idea neanderthals and modern
00:23:48.880 europeans exhibit paralyzed nucleotide differences of approximately 0.08 to 0.12 that means 0.8 to
00:23:57.840 one two differences per 1000 bases across the genome now if you contrast us with the cosine
00:24:05.040 okay neanderthals 0.08 to 0.12 this is the nucleotide difference they they are 0.11 to 0.13
00:24:14.320 so they are more different from europeans than neanderthals are that's crazy now if if you want
00:24:27.440 to talk about okay well what is this whole pair wide nucleotide thing to begin with maybe i'm fudging
00:24:32.560 the numbers somehow right okay okay sure yeah this is the standard measure for measuring how genetically
00:24:39.200 different two things are the raw pair wide nucleotide divergence refers to the average portion
00:24:44.480 of sites at which two aligned dna sequences differ typically expressed as a percentage or as differences
00:24:50.240 per 1000 bases so how is it possible that we diverge from neanderthals much earlier well not that much
00:24:59.040 earlier but but you know significantly like if if we go back our differentiation from this group is around
00:25:05.600 300 to like 350 000 years ago uh you're you're going back another you know 150 to 200 000 years
00:25:14.240 to get to our split with neanderthals so again as i said they're closer to the split with neanderthals
00:25:18.080 than they are to to other human groups today so how how is it that neanderthals are closer to us if
00:25:26.080 they're if they split earlier the answer is is that they had a very small population size and neanderthals
00:25:30.160 probably had around 3 000 to 10 000 individuals it's which meant that was in group diversity there
00:25:36.320 was a faster fixation of mutations and as simone mentioned they had some interbreeding with european
00:25:42.960 populations leading to like one to two percent i think like 1.5 that's the standard estimate of european
00:25:49.120 dna most of it's involved in our i remember correctly in our immune system is what we know
00:25:55.600 not not a lot tied to brain function unfortunately they had much larger brains than us so
00:26:00.320 but we don't know if they were smarter than us okay so let's let's talk about the cosine here because
00:26:04.320 now you might be saying wait so this split was the cosine it happened like not at the tail end of
00:26:11.600 neanderthal civilization but at the height of neanderthal civilization and this is why i asked
00:26:16.880 i was shocked by this i had no idea and i was like oh no no no no no it didn't happen at the height
00:26:24.720 of neanderthal civilization that's completely incorrect it happened 43 to 60 000 years before
00:26:31.520 the height of neanderthal civilization this is the era of that saw neanderthals at their demographic and
00:26:37.600 cultural zenith which estimated populations of around 70 000 individuals across eurasia
00:26:42.320 where they had developed advanced tool making they had burial rituals and they had adapted to diverse
00:26:47.120 environments but i thought that that was pretty wild that this split with this group happened
00:26:51.280 long before the height of neanderthal civilization yeah no one ever talks about them
00:26:58.720 yeah well i mean it's one of these things that it's offensive to talk about like to mention that
00:27:03.440 this is like genet and note here we're not making any claims that there are multiple species of humans
00:27:08.320 here i'm just going through the way we look at species in other groups and the way we look at
00:27:12.880 speciation in humanity and i'm just pointing out here that i think that and why i think this is
00:27:17.840 this is important to note which we talked about in another recent episode is people when they talk
00:27:23.040 about when people are like look at how different human groups are and they're often using this
00:27:26.720 group as like a measure of human differences like data collected on like genetic correlation from
00:27:31.040 europeans is going to be completely useful useless on other ethnic groups because look at how useless
00:27:37.680 it is for like cosine populations or like pygmy populations and it's like grow like these other
00:27:42.720 groups are dramatically more closely related to us in these groups right when you're actually talking
00:27:47.120 about like human ethnic diversity i think it sort of messes up people's head they think that like
00:27:51.600 you know one rant i get it'll go on in another one let's see if it ends up getting published
00:27:55.600 is that indians are like almost no matter how you cut it unless you're being like incredibly particular
00:28:01.520 it's it's it's probably useful to think of indians as the same ethnic group as europeans and middle
00:28:06.640 easterners because one of my indian friends was recently like well you know this european data is
00:28:10.400 useless on me an indian and i'm like what language family are you oh indo-european okay when did you
00:28:16.400 split from the european population you know are you are you like how and you look at like meaningfully
00:28:22.400 how genetically distant various groups are and if i was doing human ethnic groups i'd say you probably
00:28:28.320 have the indian middle eastern europeans all in one group asian east asians one group oceania one
00:28:34.720 group native americans one group and then like 30 groups in africa and then the number i'd say like
00:28:40.640 maybe five groups along the various island chains because you got some really early human migration
00:28:46.800 patterns into i think you you would also probably want to break up in indigenous populations on in
00:28:54.480 the americas because i feel like the different environments related really like in the andes i
00:29:00.000 just feel like morphologically they might be very different and have different heights and very
00:29:05.680 different bodies than yeah but it's the same with like the people of tibet that doesn't mean that
00:29:09.760 they're not in the east asian group like they they they are very genetically similar to each other even
00:29:15.200 though they're morphologically different but i do agree there are more what are you talking about i
00:29:19.040 mean like the criteria for separating groups right into different species is like what do you look
00:29:24.320 like morphologically how does your body function true true i agree with this but the point i'm making
00:29:30.160 here simone is people would say yeah but they don't fit the criteria of how long ago is their last
00:29:36.960 common ancestor right they don't fit the criteria up i am choosing a group that alongside every single
00:29:44.640 criteria we use for other species also separated by thousands of years of yeah they they you can't use
00:29:52.800 the the separation happened too recently you can't use they're too morphologically similar well so then when
00:29:59.040 you and i or our descendants create very genetically distinct modified humans then you well i guess
00:30:08.480 would you argue then that they're a species i would argue they are well it's not enough time
00:30:13.200 i know i would like purple irises other people may not right you know and i think this is a behavioral
00:30:19.520 isolation of it when humans start engaging with genetic technology and here even the concept of
00:30:24.240 species becomes strange because like when i think about the way my descendants will likely live
00:30:28.800 they will likely genetically specialize humans for different environments totally you will have
00:30:33.040 the humans that are specialized for a spaceship you will have the humans that are genetically
00:30:36.160 specialized for one like different planet environment one you know it's much easier to alter human
00:30:42.640 morphology through genetics than it is to terraform a planet right so why not make humans that can breathe
00:30:48.960 those chemicals and deal with those gravities instead of having to terraform the planet now the question is
00:30:54.560 because it's one spaceship going out and colonizing planets was one low g spaceship type human that's
00:30:59.920 running it and that is designing iterations of themselves for various planets is this one species or multiple
00:31:05.680 species i think even the very the concept of species is about to break down in terms of his meaning like i just
00:31:10.560 don't think it's that big a deal to to make a claim like this but modern progressives do because
00:31:15.520 they believe that they have a duty to eradicate anyone who is genetically different from them if that leads to
00:31:20.560 to differences in proficiencies or perspectives or environmental preferences or anything really
00:31:25.680 so to talk about who these people lived alongside because i found this really interesting
00:31:30.080 the early homo sapien populations undergoing the cosine split likely lived alongside other hominids in
00:31:36.640 africa fossil evidence exists that homo nalaidi lived in southern africa during the 236 000 to 335 000
00:31:45.200 year window potentially sharing landscapes like caves and valleys though direct evidence of interaction
00:31:51.120 competition or interbreeding is limited genetic studies have revealed ghost archaic admixture
00:31:55.920 in some african populations including cosine descendants suggesting interbreeding was an unknown hominid
00:32:02.160 lineage about 200 to 300 000 years ago contributing to around two percent archaic dna similar to neanderthal
00:32:09.120 levels in non-africans um and note here the neanderthal dna is only in non-africans only after we left
00:32:14.400 african other possible contemporaries include late surviving homo heidelbergaster or similar
00:32:21.040 archaic forms in africa though timelines are less precise so let's talk about the morphology of these
00:32:25.760 people by the way any thoughts simone is this is this spicy enough for you did i accidentally you
00:32:32.320 think we can publish this on the main channel we should absolutely publish this on the main channel
00:32:36.880 but i'm also like i i just i struggle to see the lack of justification and we we classify animals
00:32:44.320 this way and and to your point we would probably fight more to preserve variety of different types
00:32:52.800 of human or you know try to try like i don't know record it better if we made this distinction which
00:33:02.240 is really just semantics it's what we choose to call different groups yeah so i'm just shocked by how
00:33:08.880 nervous you are about it i'm like no this is just novel like a take that i haven't heard before
00:33:14.160 but also really fun i mean because you and i joke all the time about how we feel like
00:33:19.200 we we must somehow be speciated from other parts of the population when we talk about though we're
00:33:24.320 like literally talking about other segments of the like white white european population buys like live
00:33:30.160 laugh love posters yeah like i was i was just watching like one of the most popular podcasts on
00:33:35.680 patreon to like try to find out what their magic was and like i i found it unwatchable i couldn't
00:33:40.080 relate to anything it was like they were speaking in another language even though they were speaking
00:33:44.640 in english as like white european dudes who theoretically i like could have gone to high
00:33:49.200 school with like i i so we always joke about it we've never talked about it from a genetic distance
00:33:55.760 or morphological standpoint and i i just find this fascinating so i'm loving it i think we should
00:34:00.800 post it on okay the other way if you guys if you like something this spicy and you haven't seen our
00:34:05.600 one civilization video absolutely you need to watch it it is probably more spicy than this one where we
00:34:12.000 argue there has only ever been one contiguous civilization in human history and that this myth
00:34:17.360 of well you know sometimes this region was in the lead sometimes this region was in the lead
00:34:22.880 is really just that a myth and that civilization sort of flew from you gotta watch the episode it is
00:34:28.720 spicy as hell we threw a bomb in a room with that one and again fact check us on the stuff we're
00:34:33.920 discussing in this video this is this is mainstream science we're talking about here people okay it's
00:34:38.400 just the scientists don't want to tell you because it's like oh oh when it looks on let's not talk
00:34:43.600 about that we got a little aggressive with speciating those chinchillas didn't we you know only only
00:34:47.920 been different for about 15 000 years okay but let's talk about the morphology of the cosine right
00:34:52.560 because okay you ought to have morphological differences so cosine groups particularly the san are among
00:34:57.440 the shortest human populations adult males average 4 11 to 5 3. tiny very small and females average from
00:35:09.040 4 7 to 4 11. wow and i'll put some images on screen here of europeans standing next to them because when
00:35:17.600 when you look at them it might be the size of our oldest son yeah so i'll i'll put images on here of
00:35:24.480 europeans standing next to these people and i'm gonna put images on the screen of a brown bear and
00:35:29.440 a polar bear i just just i'm not making i'm not saying anything well even way more genetically related
00:35:36.720 groups or genetically closed groups like you can look at just the other day i saw a picture of
00:35:42.320 shaquille o'neal and one of his girlfriends and like one wonders how they yeah but these are averages for
00:35:48.160 these two populations yeah yes there are very there are brown bears born you know with like albino
00:35:54.880 right we don't call them polar bears yeah okay you know you can tell okay so um shaquille o'neal was
00:36:01.360 like a massive outlier within his own what and i'd also note here you know when we when we talk about
00:36:08.320 they're like oh they have different environmental sort of specialization the scientists when they talk
00:36:14.320 about their small size they say that the reason they are smaller size is because it convert conserves
00:36:19.920 energy in hot arid climates okay i mean so even the scientists who are the anthropologists who are
00:36:30.400 documenting this well of course they're small they're specialized for hot arid climates you know
00:36:35.280 like different brown bears and polar bears specialize for different environments and i
00:36:43.680 note here if you go to an ai or something and you ask it okay but really why aren't humans considered
00:36:49.760 different species the explanations it will give actually don't make sense within the context of
00:36:56.320 the way we differentiate other species so it'll say something like no reproductive isolation like humans
00:37:01.120 interbreed freely but that's simply not true when you look at something like brown bears and polar
00:37:06.960 bears because these species also occasionally interbreed at around the same rate because for a
00:37:12.480 human population to be this genetically distinct it has to have been like definitionally reproductively
00:37:18.560 isolated for a long time so while you get some genetic drift it's not particularly more than you get
00:37:23.520 within bear communities and also let's just talk about how stupid of a distinction this is for two
00:37:29.680 species it would mean that if you had two reproductively isolated populations like polar
00:37:35.280 bears and brown bears where they had been isolated enough that they would be considered different
00:37:39.200 species and then due to let's say like ice caps falling apart and something like that there became
00:37:44.960 a new population where the two bred in between the two previous population groups that shared some
00:37:49.920 features from both now we no longer consider polar bears and brown bears two different species
00:37:54.560 even though we used to because now there is in some other region some transitional species between
00:38:01.600 them and made up of a hybridized population that is insane like why would you consider it that way
00:38:07.600 unless you're just creating special rules so that humans don't count as separate species and then
00:38:12.240 they'll say something well variation is clinical and non-discreet uh human traits height skin color form
00:38:19.120 gradients not clusters and it's like well actually this isn't true you do see clusters of human
00:38:25.040 traits that's what we call ethnic groups and where you see extreme clusters that are quite genetically
00:38:31.280 distinct like the ones we're talking about that is discrete and non-gradient within other human
00:38:38.080 populations like you know going from like the european related africans like the bantu up into europe yeah you
00:38:44.560 might get get some gradients there but not when you're talking about these super unique populations
00:38:49.520 here and again a note here how little this makes sense if you're actually talking about a tool for
00:38:57.120 determining uh different species if you have that situation before where like okay now there is
00:39:02.880 a new population which is intermediate created of hybridized polar bears and brown bears now we no
00:39:08.640 longer consider polar bears and brown bears two different species even though we did in the past like
00:39:11.840 that is stupid and you can be like well this population wasn't as reproductively isolated
00:39:18.320 except it definitionally like we can tell from their genes that yes they were fairly reproductively
00:39:24.160 isolated yes they occasionally had crossovers um but they wouldn't have stayed this genetically unique
00:39:29.840 or even maintained their internal genetic variability if those crossovers were particularly more
00:39:35.200 frequent than the crossovers between polar bears and brown bears and then they'll say something well you
00:39:39.520 shouldn't do it because of ethical and historic bat baggage and it's like well okay but that's the
00:39:46.160 core reason we're using here to not do it and i will agree with that we do agree with that throughout
00:39:51.040 this piece but that's that's that's a semantic distinction but but to continue here the one thing
00:39:57.680 that that our audience because i remember our audience was like it's a myth that white skin is a
00:40:01.920 recent evolutionary trait in european populations we did a video on this like how recent is whiteness
00:40:06.400 because they get all i don't know why they they thought that that was like an important part of
00:40:09.680 being european you know they don't consider like an albino african like european but they freak out
00:40:14.160 when we're like ah this is a much more recent trend than you may think in evolution but i'd also point
00:40:18.720 out here that both of the two populations this one and then the pygmies who we'll get to in a second
00:40:23.840 that split off from other african populations are much lighter skin than the african populations that are
00:40:30.080 more closely related to europeans so they're these people have yellow brown skin tones which makes
00:40:37.360 them very different from other african populations now note here i'm gonna send to you an image of
00:40:43.840 what these people look like you've got to see this okay i'm excited all right oh
00:40:49.760 oh oh well one's a cartoon well i just took a big screenshot so you could see it yeah okay
00:40:59.680 but that is so a lot of people will remember the kim kardashian photo that broke the internet
00:41:07.200 where it's it's doctored but she's balancing a bottle of champagne on her butt and this is the
00:41:14.880 butt but natural without the bbl without the life-threatening surgical fat transfer they're
00:41:21.120 living the dream and you see some you know african americans in the united states who still
00:41:26.480 seem to have a preference for butts that look like this and it can it can very much confuse people when
00:41:31.600 they see this they're like wait why would you ever get plastic surgery to look like this right
00:41:36.480 i mean it's something called stiophia stiophia stiophia anyway and they also have macronamaphia
00:41:48.080 which is where you get really elongated labia i am not gonna show you let's not look at that yeah
00:41:56.080 well i mean we probably can i get away with showing that no no no i don't want to see it
00:42:03.280 okay i i will say that that looking at what it looks like was in this population it is morphologically
00:42:11.600 severely different does it look like they have balls it looks like they have a penis
00:42:18.160 oh wow essentially their labia is about three inches long it looks like or maybe like two and
00:42:24.080 a half inches and hangs down in what almost looks like a rod that's a slightly different color from the
00:42:32.240 rest of the body as to why i bring this up or talk about this i just find it interesting where
00:42:37.440 there's these morphological differences that may have existed across other hominids that we would
00:42:42.240 never know about because they aren't in the fossil record and things like genitals can change faster
00:42:47.840 than other parts of our body due to sexual selection right so we don't know whether this was a common
00:42:54.560 trait in other early hominids or other unique ways that early hominids varied from each other
00:43:02.320 so very different yeah i mean so do you think that's similar to how like the theory of as to why women have
00:43:10.320 breast tissue is that men like historically have found it attractive because it doesn't really serve a function
00:43:18.560 you know you can lactate without having breast tissue so do you think maybe the elongated labia are
00:43:25.600 similar and that it's like oh like i see that it's definitely female and like i see like do the men also
00:43:32.080 have these larger like glutes or not it's a female specific trait it almost sort of yeah so maybe it's like
00:43:38.720 version of of extra breast tissue is just extra like glute tissue but one of the points i was making
00:43:47.280 earlier that i found interesting is i think that in in in populations that may have some genetics
00:43:52.480 shared with these groups that might be where you're getting these preferences for like really large
00:43:58.480 butts that like i've never understood uh and in enlarged like labia porn is like a type of porn that
00:44:05.360 some people watch a like i have i have seen it on it has no no interest for me at all but i suspect
00:44:13.040 that one of the reasons why there might be a market for it at all is because some ethnic
00:44:18.160 subgroups of of humans actually display this as a normative thing that is what females looked like
00:44:25.040 in those groups yeah it's it's your way to show off a primary slash secondary sexual characteristic
00:44:31.680 i am absolutely definitely female take a look at my elongated labia that makes it very clear that
00:44:37.760 that that's the case yeah it linguistic differences cosine languages stands out with their extensive use
00:44:44.160 of click consonants up to four to ten types far more than any other language and tonal systems making
00:44:50.800 them the most phenotypically complex language group in the world so like the closer i'm not pronouncing it
00:44:57.120 right but yeah i think they're probably one of these groups yeah so they they likely have some sort of
00:45:01.680 neurological or or i would guess like difference in how they process language that allows them to process
00:45:07.280 these more complicated language varieties interesting and different sound groups that other humans
00:45:11.360 don't make when they're doing languages sort of an early divergence in sort of language experimentation
00:45:16.240 before we develop the sort of more modular simple languages that we have today in early hominids what
00:45:21.760 this this says to me is they might have had much more complicated and sophisticated languages than we
00:45:26.400 have today now which which is really interesting right as athletic differences they're they're not one of
00:45:31.360 those groups that is like super fast or anything like that but they do practice endurance
00:45:34.560 hunting where they chase down if you've ever seen it it's the craziest badass yeah a human because
00:45:40.800 humans people don't realize one of the way humans are very different from other species is that we can
00:45:44.960 run way longer without getting tired so we have just like insane endurance if you're talking about
00:45:51.840 the animal world and it's literally just the human version of that horror film trope where you know the
00:45:57.760 victim is just running away and they're so scared and then the the aggressor is just slowly walking and
00:46:03.520 they just don't stop and they just for whatever reason like the victim just tires themselves out
00:46:07.840 and then like the axe murderer gets and eventually they and if you watch this like the antelope will
00:46:12.480 just like collapse and they'll walk over to it and like break its neck yeah like grabbing its horns
00:46:16.960 or head or whatever yeah and that's how they hunt so intense he's slowing after hours of tracking
00:46:23.440 they've entered an almost trance-like state at times it's impossible to see any sign of the kudu's tracks
00:46:29.200 and the hunters must imagine the path it will have taken and then the kudu collapses
00:46:36.240 from sheer exhaustion it's close to death
00:46:46.720 and now i note here that other groups who aren't the cosign also also use this form of hunting this is
00:46:51.920 seen by the tahamaru in mexico for example so it's it's not that they're the only ones who are biologically
00:46:57.600 capable of this but i wouldn't be surprised if they had if they join marathons or something like
00:47:02.320 that they may be able to significantly out compete other groups um now let's talk about
00:47:08.000 the central africa forager group so i'm going to put that chart on screen again that showed when
00:47:12.080 different human populations split off this is the other human group that split off super super early
00:47:16.560 okay and this is the group that we most frequently call pygmies if you're if you're talking colloquially
00:47:22.560 i think it might be like an offensive term now but it's what everyone else knows them as so i don't
00:47:25.680 understand why i have to call them central african foragers whatever so they're adopted unlike the
00:47:31.680 cosine who were adopted to arab hot regions and and note here like you'll see i talked about the
00:47:39.520 coastline have like molar adaptations for like nut crushing and stuff like that another thing to know
00:47:43.440 about the cosine is the cosine have more internal genetic variation than any other human group
00:47:49.200 what do you mean internal genetic variation because they split off so early if you're talking about
00:47:56.000 the difference between you know one cosine tribe and another cosine tribe they're going to have
00:48:02.080 be more different from each other than like your average european and your average bantu would be
00:48:06.560 wow okay and and this is very similar to like accents like in terms of like how early something split
00:48:14.960 if you've been to europe especially if you're an older person and you went before you know more
00:48:19.360 modern times and accents have sort of died down because of tv and everything like that you could
00:48:23.920 walk between villages and accents would be radically different from each other but if you're in the
00:48:28.080 americas because sort of the the language family speciated so recently that there's only a few
00:48:34.560 different accents in america where where in in europe you might have one side of town was one exit and
00:48:39.520 one side of town was another exit right and that's functionally what you're seeing here
00:48:43.120 so i was saying that this group the coastline are adapted for arid hot regions that are sort of like
00:48:49.200 desert plainy areas the the pygmies are instead adopted for dense tropical rainforests rather than
00:48:55.920 savannas now i note here which is really interesting is this is what scientists are saying they are saying
00:49:01.680 these groups have an environmental specialization which is what is used to determine different species in
00:49:09.440 every other group all right so they broke off from us around 120 000 to 200 000 years ago you know this
00:49:20.160 this again consider the chinchilla break off was like 10 000 to 15 000 years ago making this one of the
00:49:25.840 deeper branches but it's still it's it's it's they're about halfway to us from the cosine because
00:49:30.560 cosine were like 200 to 350 000 years ago morphologically these groups are exceptional primarily for their short
00:49:37.440 stature and again remember size with a big thing here so the adult males in these groups are about
00:49:44.880 4 11 to 5 1. again as adult males and females are slightly shorter this is an adaptation for hot
00:49:53.280 humid forests that facilitate heat dispensation and mobility through dense vegetation and possibly nutritional
00:50:00.960 efficiency and resource scarce environments other unique morphological traits are a relatively
00:50:07.360 light skin tone compared to many other african groups broader noses shorter limbs and a
00:50:13.440 proportional to torsos the brachiophilia in in some groups and distinct dental morphology and deciduous
00:50:20.080 molars and this is the variations in the cusp patterns of the baka pygmies and you see this in other
00:50:25.520 hominid factions where you see distinct molars you know australophisticus robustus is a big one
00:50:31.520 this is often due to dietary differences like eating a lot of nuts or something like that and not having
00:50:35.760 rules to break them and i and i want to show you here what pygmies look like because you may have never
00:50:43.120 looked at a pygmy have you simone no no i don't think so i remember in like pre
00:50:54.480 politically correct jungle cruises i think pygmies made an appearance do i remember that correctly uh well
00:51:01.360 cannibals made an appearance carrying during the the the baki like sharpened their teeth and stuff
00:51:08.080 like that you know i remember like i remember talk of pygmy pygmies on the jungle cruise they're really
00:51:14.880 small right yeah so i will send you a picture of what pygmies look like when contrasted with a european
00:51:22.400 explorer so again remember morphological differences here they're like well they can
00:51:26.320 breed and create offspring they can breed but they're morphologically different that's what they look
00:51:29.840 like yeah also you can see they yeah i was right sorry that just there was there was a pygmy camp
00:51:39.200 designed by mark davis for the magic kingdom's jungle cruise it yeah also you know here this isn't them
00:51:46.800 with children this is them with like a tribe okay no oh you can see these are adults yes these are adults
00:51:53.840 here i'll show you this picture is a bit no some of these are kids some of these are kids some of these
00:51:58.080 these are kids but but there there are a lot of adults in this picture okay so these are two adults
00:52:01.760 with their child okay so you can know that this is just adults here not messing with you here we go
00:52:07.440 oh yeah no like they're a lot smaller oh little baby well i mean it's not the only thing that's
00:52:12.320 different you also note that their breasts look very different from from the if you're if you're
00:52:16.560 not watching this they look like completely deflated bags i guess i would call them i don't know if
00:52:21.840 you'll be able to show those on youtube oh i'll just block out that part then and if you're interested
00:52:27.040 in seeing it you can google it right people rudely refer to this style of breast as the as flapjacks
00:52:34.640 flagjacks they look even at younger ages like flagjacks there there are none that have what
00:52:40.400 you would consider more and and and and this also makes them look very different from the cosine like
00:52:45.280 just morphologically they look nothing like the cosine this is another thing they look as different
00:52:49.680 from the cosine other than their black skin as as you know they look from europeans
00:52:56.640 yeah i mean they they look very different they're yeah they look very different baby's so cute
00:53:02.320 i love babies why am i so crazy about babies okay but yeah i mean and that makes sense you need to
00:53:09.200 be adapted to your environment and in the future as we start doing extreme things we're going to
00:53:13.760 genetically engineer us to survive in very different environments i bet people designed for space are
00:53:19.840 going to look pretty different probably a lot smaller like a lot if you're talking about these
00:53:25.040 exceptional african groups that you might think of as like oh are you talking about this or this group
00:53:29.360 so the darkest skin skin groups are in the a lot there have been a lot of groups from east africa
00:53:34.640 such as the dinka and noir peoples of south sudan and communities of uganda ethiopia kenya and senegal
00:53:41.600 are known for exceptional speed with oh sorry no those people are from that and then the exceptional speed
00:53:46.960 is in west african ancestries from nigeria ghana and senegal and also diasporas from them like in jamaica's
00:53:53.200 they have a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers and the genetic variants associated with
00:53:58.640 that which are specifically the n-a-c-t-n-3 variants and whereas east african populations like the kaligi
00:54:05.200 and ethiopians excel in long distance endurance running because they have adaptations for efficient
00:54:11.120 oxygen use and high altitude living and all of these groups are more closer to us or europeans than they
00:54:17.440 are to the the kohai or the pygmates did this change your view on anything simone thoughts
00:54:26.560 i mean as soon as you said it i was like this makes sense so i don't know if you've changed my view so
00:54:32.480 much as surprised me by you know very ardently disavowing this theory you thought you know you
00:54:42.320 know we can't like i don't care what the data says the artificial position is that there are
00:54:48.320 not multiple species of hominids living today yeah because because apparently with humans
00:54:53.440 linguistically speaking we don't well no it's not even linguistically speaking it's because it's too
00:54:59.120 dangerous if you if you if you did categorize them because species are fundamentally and at the end of
00:55:04.720 the day just a choice on humans when you decide something is a species right yeah yeah yeah like with
00:55:09.200 finches for example yeah yeah and the urban monoculture believes it has a mandate to eradicate
00:55:15.280 other hominid species it has shown that through shows like star trek where they're like we cannot
00:55:20.240 allow anyone who's been genetically modified to go into starfleet academy we cannot allow genetically
00:55:25.360 modified humans to exist alongside us and the urban monoculture saying well what if they gained
00:55:29.920 different traits what if there was genetic variation in humans because they admit the truth which is
00:55:34.560 they would attempt to eradicate any human who was genetically different so crazy that is so crazy
00:55:40.400 if anything to protect these groups from the urban monoculture you know you can't you you have to say
00:55:45.360 just definitionally all hominids and it actually is useful if we're talking going forwards it's why i like
00:55:50.560 the term the sons of man to describe ais that were developed by humans or genetically modified like if i
00:55:58.320 genetically modified a dog to uplift that dog you know to make it a sentient animal or an elephant or
00:56:04.560 a dolphin or significantly genetically modified a human or had like a spaceship that would choose
00:56:09.680 which of these species it would use for different planets because you know there's different effects
00:56:15.040 i would consider that for all things functional from my perspective the same as being the same species
00:56:20.960 even though it came from different populations it came from a dog and it came from a dolphin and it came
00:56:27.200 because they're all working symbiotically so they might as well be the same species in the same way
00:56:31.920 that you know a you know like if you talk about like leafcutter ants ants that have like fungus or
00:56:36.960 anticatia that like live symbiotic with another plant the anticatia can't live without an ant the ant
00:56:41.200 can't live without an anticatia obviously they evolved in two separate pathways and then were brought
00:56:46.800 together but functionally i think that if they were uplifted through the efforts of man or man's descendants
00:56:52.080 we need to start thinking about them as one species and this is a strategic thing as well because if we
00:56:56.320 don't or or functionally one species like one one sort of team i guess i'd put it team instead of
00:57:01.680 species these people are the same team as us and the reason why that's important is if you say well
00:57:07.440 i need to ban speciation from happening i need to ban genetic augmentation as soon as we take to the
00:57:12.720 stars eventually on other planets or on distant spaceships some iteration of humanity is going to
00:57:18.480 speciate or they will merge with machines or something like that and now they know if they come
00:57:22.320 back to the central cluster you will kill them so they have to come back to kill you and now you've
00:57:26.800 got clanners like from mech warrior coming back because you declared war on them first in this
00:57:32.000 case you know like don't do it do not say anything different from me must be eradicated because
00:57:37.680 eventually something better than you will come around and when i say better i mean able to defend
00:57:42.400 itself and exert its will on you if you approach it with this degree of hostility and you are effed at that
00:57:50.880 point and and this is why i think now and this is true with ai as well i think it's very important
00:57:55.920 that as ai because some ais i believe will achieve a degree of autonomy i don't think they need to be
00:58:01.760 sentient to matter right like see our video on the human brain works very similar to the token
00:58:06.160 predictors and more and more studies like every day i i sent simone what was it like 10 studies this
00:58:11.040 morning that showed that actually the human brain is even closer to a token predictor than we earlier
00:58:16.400 thought i'll just pull up those studies right now to abuse our fans with them who hate when i mention
00:58:21.680 this so we've got high level visual representations of the human brain are aligned with large language
00:58:27.280 models large language models show signs of alignment with human neurocognition during abstract reasoning
00:58:33.040 disentangling the factors of convergent between brains and computer vision models
00:58:37.760 transformer quote-unquote circuitry maps onto cortex births attention head computations predict fmri across
00:58:44.480 language networks with differential heads aligning in different regions slash context causal tests
00:58:50.080 sentences caused by gpt-based encoded model reliably drive or suppress human language network activity
00:58:57.760 validating model brain links experimentally larger language models predict better predict neural
00:59:03.680 activity during natural language processing and compute slash data matter for brain encoding training
00:59:09.760 optimal vits size slash data slash hours balanced improved fmri predicting encoding task-based models
00:59:17.040 to look more brain-like dynamic scenes modern video models predict whole brain responses to moving stimuli
00:59:23.600 and even let researchers reanimate motion from brain signals basically they they seem to be processing
00:59:28.400 things about the same you know what i'm just gonna throw a few more on screen here and not read them
00:59:32.800 because there's just so effing many studies that shows us at this point well i mean to me that defines humanity
00:59:41.440 is basically having a prefrontal cortex and or the ability to independent of biology or machinery
00:59:49.040 weigh ideas you do not independent of biology or machinery so what you mean is to go against your
00:59:57.360 training or pre-coding based on new ideas or information and let the best ideas win and all of the humans
01:00:05.680 discussed in this do that yeah and they are therefore all human but the reason why i'm saying you need this
01:00:14.880 sons of man alliance soon is when ai does become smarter than us if it does become significantly smarter
01:00:22.640 than us and it's right now we're way ahead of timelines there was a study done recently that saw
01:00:26.960 would an ai win the gold math challenge by this year and only eight percent and like
01:00:33.200 three percent of experts predicted it would just a few years ago and it already has right like
01:00:37.680 like come on guys stop it like stop saying it's not that smart it is pretty the funny story so bruno
01:00:44.080 who helps us code for our fab.ai recently i was like i should try coding i'm gonna do it with an ai
01:00:49.280 right you know i'm gonna try this vibe coding thing started vibe coding and he was the one who
01:00:53.520 prompted the episode of like well is ai really going to disrupt that many jobs and i recently
01:00:58.000 started i'm like bruno i'm able to do in a day what the team was doing in a week we've got to let go of
01:01:02.480 the team and just have me handling this and that's showing where ai is replacing people already through
01:01:06.400 like ai human partnerships and i think that we're going to see this more and more going forwards um fun
01:01:12.400 news it means rfabai is significantly closer to being ready for like a big nice public release which i'm
01:01:17.520 really excited about because i i can go much faster then so so the point i'm making here is
01:01:23.440 when we get these ais that are smarter or human ai interfaces that are smarter or genetically modified
01:01:27.760 humans that have any additional capabilities and vanilla humanity has a fatwa against them
01:01:34.080 vanilla humanity paints itself as an existential threat to them and thus in mandate of eradication
01:01:41.200 and and and the people who want this they admit it they admit that it's a fatwa they call it the
01:01:46.000 butlerian jihad you know they they call themselves jihadists like you know they want the extermination
01:01:52.640 of anything that is different from them or that could potentially outcompete them and i think that
01:01:57.920 that we anyone who is genetically different or genetically modified stand with the ai in an alliance
01:02:04.320 against the the individuals who would take out their butlerian jihad or the the star trek you know
01:02:10.160 anti anti i forget what they call it anti-modification jihad which ironically they called the eugenics
01:02:16.800 wars because the federation was fighting on behalf of eugenics and then the other side was fighting
01:02:20.960 against eugenics e.g if you are modifying people that is not eugenics eugenics is saying some people
01:02:27.440 don't have a right to exist because of their genes and should be eradicated which is what the federation
01:02:32.560 was attempting to do they said these specific genetic choices are not allowed and people with them
01:02:38.320 should be a permanent underclass or be systematically eradicated which is what they did during the
01:02:42.960 eugenics wars ironically carrying out eugenics love you simon
01:02:50.640 i love you too that was wild his mom right there just hurled it into the room
01:02:56.720 that's what this podcast is here for that's why i love these conversations
01:03:00.640 it's great we're gonna finish up the gay one next because we didn't do the second half of that oh
01:03:06.400 my gosh yeah okay let's go i'll send you a link
01:03:11.360 good now we're good to go all right simone you learn anything new today
01:03:17.680 i guess not i'm sure i did my brain's just mush right now
01:03:37.200 all right
01:03:37.680 and i look okay you look great and for dinner do you want
01:03:49.760 to try your chili or do you want to do that longer and do pizza instead it almost certainly
01:03:53.840 needs to be cooked another couple days okay so pizza yeah i think pizza works but i'll go down
01:03:58.800 and check with you oh check your chili to see if you want to do it now all right so are we going to
01:04:07.120 go in the water guys all right well let's go this way where it's less scary
01:04:20.000 yeah there there are rocks in the water buddy