Based Camp - Are “Woke” Ideas Secretly Eugenic？ with Ed Dutton

00:00:00.000 if you are able to think for yourself and you look at the data and you just say what that data says

00:00:05.220 you will be isolated from mainstream society and then people like us find each other because and

00:00:12.560 so in that way they are hopefully sowing the seeds of their own downfall so long as they're not

00:00:18.140 rounding up like Machiavelli would everyone who dissents and who says the true thing in the room

00:00:23.420 of liars so that they can then have them i think i think i think it may come to that point but i

00:00:27.980 think we will have we will have escaped to our various neo-byzantiums by the time they simply

00:00:32.080 go through the streets with a machine gun kill people that express any logical reasonable ideas

00:00:36.560 but would you like to know more hello everyone today we are joined again we're very excited

00:00:42.620 by the jolly heretic aka edward dutton aka professor dutton you can find his podcast or youtube channel

00:00:49.680 the jolly heretic he also authored the native classroom a sort of the mathematician's lament

00:00:55.040 of science education which is available on amazon but today we're going to talk about something a

00:00:59.880 little different some research that he recently did as well as an ancient theory he has so let's

00:01:06.680 start with the research that i want to start with is the rome study talk a bit about what was found in

00:01:11.280 this study because i think it was really cool and that it seemed to confirm a theory that a lot of us

00:01:15.740 have been throwing around and sort of confirm it yeah so basically basically the i the i the theory is

00:01:21.700 that what causes the rise and fall of civilizations and the theory that i've been working on for a

00:01:26.680 long time well loads of people have worked on it but i've quite associated with it in a book

00:01:29.880 called adult wit's end why we're becoming less intelligent and what it means for the future of

00:01:33.020 michael woodley venee is its intelligence intelligence is the central thing if you're under

00:01:36.940 harsh darwinian conditions and the intelligence is not particularly high there is strong selection

00:01:42.620 pressure for intelligence because intelligence gives you the competitive edge and allows you to

00:01:45.840 survive and we showed that across time based on proxy measures such as skull size such as capital

00:01:52.140 major innovation such as literacy even though sounds of living didn't change much such as numeracy such

00:01:57.860 as interest rates which are a marker of time preference and a number of other measures that

00:02:02.200 intelligence seemed to be going up and indeed the richer 50 percent of the population in england

00:02:07.900 had based on parish records double the complete fertility of the poor 50 percent of the population

00:02:11.680 and the intelligence is associated robustly with wealth and so this indicates intelligence is going

00:02:17.400 up and then you get the breakthroughs of the industrial revolution of course and then you start to get a

00:02:22.880 situation where this direct inspection pressure is reduced so whereas what's been happening is every

00:02:28.400 generation the bottom of society have been dying out and the top of the society have been increasing

00:02:33.720 in size and and moving down to fill the the places vacated by those at the bottom who have died

00:02:38.860 off then that process kind of stops because with the innovations of medicine and better housing and

00:02:45.840 all a Dutch revolution Darwinian selection pressure is weakened and then you find this process where it's

00:02:51.740 for some reason we don't quite know why but I've speculated on why in my book it goes into reverse you

00:02:57.320 start to see a negative correlation between intelligence and how many children you have and we showed we show

00:03:04.000 evidence of this based on capital major innovation based on IQ scores based on reaction times getting

00:03:10.720 longer based on color discrimination getting worse based on new and based on simply genes that are

00:03:16.040 associated alleles that are essentially associated with high intelligence beginning becoming less and

00:03:21.340 less and less within the population so and what that eventually leads to of course is the society

00:03:25.880 becomes stupider and stupider and stupider and it can't sustain things it used to be able to sustain

00:03:31.060 but also it degenerates into war it splits up it becomes impulsive and whatever and essentially the

00:03:36.780 civilization collapses at worst or at best it retreats you get a kind of Byzantium effect where

00:03:42.680 clever people that are still there kind of club together and keep it going in some smaller form as it as

00:03:47.680 it reduces in size and so on so intelligence becomes the motor of the rise and fall of civilization

00:03:52.200 so what we the theory is that that could be the case with Rome and there was some evidence for that

00:03:58.820 because uh they talk about in the time of Augustus they noticed that the upper class men are not

00:04:04.100 having many children they talk about it and they note the population is going down and they know that

00:04:08.640 Augustus brings in a tax on childlessness from the upper class men and they pay the tax and all this

00:04:13.780 sort of thing is going on and so we thought we can test it with ancient genomes so what you have is

00:04:19.680 these samples it's true that they are small samples but the statistical significance was maintained and all

00:04:25.160 all that they were representative and are you sure are we find that at the beginning of the period of Rome

00:04:30.800 you know the the prevalence of these alleles is not that high it goes up it reaches a peak in in the

00:04:36.720 republican period and so this is a highly intelligent period and then Rome starts to generate into chaos

00:04:41.540 Rome of course it has doesn't have an industrial revolution but it does become very rich it has the grain

00:04:46.360 laws the dole or whatever it reduces it creates its own zoo like we do reduces selection pressure what do you

00:04:52.480 see the prevalence of the alleles associated with talent starts to go down and and this goes down

00:04:58.320 in parallel basically with the collapse of Rome so it it does fit the data now the theory the counter

00:05:07.980 argument sorry is that there is a change in the composition of the people living in Rome so that

00:05:15.160 you have more genes more bodies that are from outside Rome itself that are from other parts of Italy or

00:05:21.920 other than that it's a radium so that's a compound but but otherwise it does kind of it is what we would

00:05:27.440 predict yeah and you can tell me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember in this study as a point of

00:05:31.200 clarification they're not looking at IQ they're looking at the polygenic risk scores that today would be

00:05:35.500 associated with educational attainment so with high polygenic risk scores so through high very high

00:05:40.620 educational attainment which is a very good proxy for IQ yeah no no it's a good proxy but I think a lot

00:05:45.280 of people might be like well IQ whatever it's like look they're not even looking at that they're

00:05:48.780 looking at like functionally like the types of people who in our society would get PhDs just

00:05:53.880 started to disappear from the society and and this is fascinating because this theory existed prior to

00:05:59.860 to you know looking at these historic bodies and it aligns with something that we've noted in some of

00:06:04.720 our work that if you look at renaissances in a region they typically last for no longer than three

00:06:11.660 generations and they almost never bloom twice within the same population so if you whether it's

00:06:18.580 the you know the scottish enlightenment or the renaissance in italy or you know the american

00:06:22.620 renaissance in the original 13 colonies or you you rarely will see a renaissance lasting longer than

00:06:28.880 three generations are happening twice because renaissances seem to be genetically exhaustive of

00:06:35.080 whatever is their precursor and this also aligns with some of the theories I've seen of why you saw

00:06:41.700 civilization bloom in places that previously were more barbarian where when a place was particularly

00:06:48.080 barbarian during a previous phase of large large civilization that they were likely to become the

00:06:54.300 nexus of the next civilization and yeah sorry I mean I think that's a very good point so you've got a

00:06:59.740 situation where civilization will move because it will start in a place where there is an optimum

00:07:04.820 relationship between the genetics and the environment and it will which will which will allow

00:07:10.300 the the the the civilization to spread and and whatever and grow and it will perhaps then move let's say

00:07:17.020 further north to a place where the environmental selection pressures are harsher which means that in

00:07:22.240 in sort of theory there's let's say harsher more selection for something like intelligence or there could be

00:07:27.480 there could be if let's say something like farming went there yeah so in the absence of farming that

00:07:32.760 the farming is a selection event farming selections for intelligence and so if you if you if you take

00:07:37.920 farming from the mediterranean uh or whatever so from the nile up to where to the north then the

00:07:44.060 selection pressures are very it will become very harsh for them a lot of them will be wiped out and

00:07:48.500 so then you'd expect the center of civilization to move north because the suddenly is harsher selections

00:07:52.720 for intelligence further north and it would carry on like yeah well i'm arguing more that like barbarism

00:07:57.460 is is the precursor of of civilization or intelligence because keep in mind that rome

00:08:02.520 wasn't replaced by you know northern european civilization it was replaced by islamic civilization

00:08:08.120 and and that came out of a region of extreme barbarism and then if you look at the roman empire

00:08:13.420 the the next places of large civilization were like the german territories and the english territories

00:08:19.540 which were two of the most that like the least tamed during the roman empire well hold on so you don't

00:08:24.320 really mean barbarism which is really just being foreign or different you mean like harsh living

00:08:28.600 right harsh living it would it that's an interesting possibility it would it would make it would make

00:08:34.400 sense that they're under they're under harsher conditions and because they're under harsher conditions

00:08:41.600 they're sort of more up against it so there's less possibility to experiment there's less excess

00:08:47.100 and so they can't innovate these kinds of things themselves but once they get hold of the rubric

00:08:53.320 of the innovation then because their harsh conditions are more selective for intelligence

00:08:57.960 let's say then they can take it and they can run with it and they can do fantastically well

00:09:02.940 so the kind of now the the the possible problem with that and my colleague on that paper the rome paper

00:09:10.200 is looking at this at the moment is that there's some evidence that the really really important thing

00:09:15.500 is farming that's that's really it's crucial and and and once you get farming it massively elevates

00:09:22.960 iq and because it creates this competition where anyone that doesn't take up farming is wiped out

00:09:28.820 and it's much more cognitively demanding to pursue farming than to pursue hunter gathering or so is it

00:09:34.400 farming or is it technology adoption because farming is a he's arguing well if that it's arguing that form

00:09:40.200 of technology now i don't know if he's right but that's what he's suggesting so he's arguing that

00:09:44.940 that possibly based on apologetic scores people the reason why agriculture was developed in iraq was

00:09:51.440 because at that time they were just the most intelligent people and and and and so it might

00:09:56.580 it might not that i fat theory is the one i used to hold it might not be right we'll see

00:10:00.720 interesting yeah it'd be interesting to see yeah i was just thinking in my head okay so the the times

00:10:04.740 when i'm thinking when a big civilization is like when i was like okay civilization died civilization

00:10:07.880 rose you had a greek civilization which rose after the bronze age as a result of egyptian civilization

00:10:15.040 and and the bronze age civilizations leaving the scene and we know that that region has recently

00:10:19.960 undergone a near total ethnic replacement that's always like the erasure of so there was really heavy

00:10:26.060 conflict in that region we know that islamic civilization came out of a really really high

00:10:31.200 conflict region rome pre-roman history was really high conflict but did have farming none of the

00:10:37.060 other ones i knew had a lot of farming i did ancient athens i'm thinking pre pre like bronze age

00:10:42.920 collapse see people time they might have had agriculture small scale at the very least scale

00:10:48.100 i mean i think i think that your theory that you're propounding is what i myself propounded in various

00:10:53.840 things i've written it may well be right but i'm just i'm just wondering at the moment i will wait to

00:10:58.260 see my colleagues research on this let's hear your other theory no i also want to hold on there's one

00:11:03.700 question i want to ask and this is to both of you and this is just because my understanding of this

00:11:07.520 period of history especially when it comes to falling birth rates is imperfect obviously what

00:11:12.440 people give as excuses for not having kids is different from why they're not actually having kids

00:11:16.520 but was there some taxation or inheritance policy or thing other than just hedonism which is always the

00:11:22.980 answer people give when society stopped you know producing as many kids that would explain why

00:11:28.080 especially upper class men were not having as many kids at that time the opposite i mean they were

00:11:36.040 they were trying to encourage upper class men to have more kids right but why weren't why weren't they

00:11:40.900 despite encouragement i we don't really know my theory which i've expounded in various places is that

00:11:47.920 is that basically well the evidence is that mortality salium and threat of mortality and death that's what

00:11:55.600 makes you want to have kids that's our evolutionary match so if you take that away then it becomes a

00:12:01.640 selection event for the just the genetics of pronatalism and and and that is what is taken away to some

00:12:08.900 extent anyway okay there was high mortality in rome compared to now but that is what is particularly

00:12:13.760 among the upper class that is what is taken away and so they just stop having they don't the the instinct

00:12:20.000 doesn't hit in and i think that's what we're seeing now people that are more intelligent are

00:12:24.920 more environmentally sensitive there's a number of lines of evidence for that and so the more

00:12:30.740 sensitive environment if they're in an evolutionary mismatch they're just less instinctive and so they

00:12:35.360 just don't have kids well and we also need to think about what what does hedonism mean like what

00:12:40.180 does a society have to look like for it to estole hedonism as a virtue and to not severely punish

00:12:46.080 members from engaging in hedonism cultural groups that didn't punish hedonism historically are typically

00:12:51.480 out competed really quickly because it's really bad for the elites in your society to be overly

00:12:56.900 hedonistic unless you massively are out competing your neighbors and this is why if you look at the

00:13:02.100 periods right before various civilizational collapses whether it's the athenian civilization the roman

00:13:07.540 civilization or the muslim civilization all of them had extreme hedonism particularly sexual hedonism

00:13:13.780 right before their collapse started and you can read a lot about this i think people would be

00:13:19.020 surprised and the reason why i always include the muslim civilization one because i think a lot of

00:13:22.140 people ignore that in their data sets but it gives you an additional data set in an area where we

00:13:26.780 already don't have that many data sets yeah and passion passion glove in his book the fate of empires

00:13:31.300 looked into the into the islamic situation of course he was amazed by the parallels between

00:13:35.120 8th century islam let's say and what was going on in rome 800 years earlier yeah it was very aligned

00:13:41.680 um yeah and i something i also want to compliment ed dutton on saying here because this is not the way

00:13:49.080 the opponents of our think is he had a theory he was committed to the theory he had written on the

00:13:54.740 theory he had somebody else agree with a theory and he said well i'm actually aware of some counter

00:13:59.880 evidence that's currently being developed and so i want to see if it disconfirmed my presumptions

00:14:05.820 yeah this is a really important in the way that people should think and engage with ideas and is

00:14:12.340 not often seen in our society right now and i think it needs to be specifically called out it's a good

00:14:17.760 thing to say when somebody says i might be disproven here's somebody who's working on this

00:14:24.120 but let's now go to your next theory the new one you're working on now yes very fun so i'm known for

00:14:29.980 a theory of spiteful mutants which was can you talk a bit about spiteful mutants first if there is a

00:14:38.020 collapse in harsh darwinian selection pressure then you get a build-up of mutation the mutation will

00:14:43.940 relate of course to the body it will make people physically less healthy but it will also make people

00:14:47.780 mentally less healthy and people that are mental and those things are play atripically related

00:14:51.940 and so if people are mentally less healthy then they will tend to have adaptation they will tend to

00:14:57.300 have basically ways of thinking for genetic reasons that are unhealthy uh that are maladaptive as opposed

00:15:02.740 to adaptive so what have we been selecting for across time we've been selecting for intelligence

00:15:07.460 we've been selecting for uh pro-social personality we've been selecting for uh obviously wanting to

00:15:13.280 have children natalism's basic thing uh we've got religiosity because religiosity seems to take that

00:15:18.480 which is adaptive and make it the will of god we've been groups which we've been selecting for

00:15:22.160 ethnocentrism positive negative ethnocentrism obedience to authority all these kinds of group oriented

00:15:26.520 things we've been selecting for all this whole bundle of stuff that is all bundled together and

00:15:30.300 tends to manifest in certain kinds of religious group and so you would expect a deviation from

00:15:35.180 that and that deviation would be associated with mutational load and you would get these these

00:15:39.840 mutants they'd be identifiable by sites to some extent because of the relationship between what you

00:15:44.320 look like and mutational load who would just have maladaptive ideas because we're a highly pro-social

00:15:49.360 species and we're meant to be surrounded by genetically healthy people we would be influenced by them

00:15:53.900 and so therefore they would spread maladaptive ideas around the society these would be ideas

00:15:58.480 like andrea dawkin or whatever you know all sex obvious spiteful mutants ugly disgusting woman

00:16:04.020 um all all sex is rape and and and you know that basically we should just allow humanity to die out

00:16:11.000 so that was the idea you have these these spiteful mutants and if they are reasonably intelligent and

00:16:15.180 they reach the middle class then they will be able to push society in a maladaptive direction

00:16:20.680 and and just destroy it basically and you know lead lead to its end so they're spiteful they're bad for

00:16:27.320 society and then more recently myself and a colleague have been think have been revising this idea and

00:16:33.320 thinking actually no like what what what actually perhaps they're altruistic i mean what are they doing

00:16:41.520 they are going to bring about a people who are basically very religious very conservative

00:16:49.360 very pro-natalist very genetically healthy very able to if like some kind of massive natural disaster

00:16:55.940 happens like happened with the late bronze age collapse very able to survive that like if they

00:17:00.740 weren't there potentially we'd just get unhealthier and unhealthier and unhealthier and when inevitably

00:17:06.500 there's a big natural disaster then just everybody would die out

00:17:09.540 are you saying they're like a mouse trap like catching so it's it's very interesting i i'll

00:17:16.040 give my thoughts on this because i just summarize what i'm so so the idea what they are doing what

00:17:20.420 they are doing what woke is doing is it is it has taken over the culture of society and it is pushing

00:17:26.300 society in a matter it is whereas you are used to being pushed along the adaptive roadmap of life which

00:17:32.180 says you think life has meaning which says that you should believe in god which says that you should have

00:17:35.920 children which says that you should eventually be men and women should be women whatever all of all of

00:17:40.480 the which says that you should live in relatively monocultural society everything all of this is

00:17:44.840 utterly subverted all of this is turned on its head instead you are pushed along a maladaptive roadmap

00:17:50.420 of life where you are told you shouldn't have children you should mutilate your body you should be gay

00:17:55.560 you you should you should welcome the destruction of your society you should everything bad so who

00:18:00.940 therefore people don't have children who is resistant to this onslaught which says don't

00:18:05.480 have children or which pushes you towards not having children which you know feminism or whatever which

00:18:10.120 pushes you towards not having children it makes it more difficult or fat acceptance pushes you who is

00:18:15.380 resistant to this it's going to be people that for genetic reasons are going to be highly

00:18:19.900 ethnocentric conservative religious and those all correlate with being healthy so basically it's a selection

00:18:25.540 event and the woke people are altruistic they are bringing they are they are eugenicists they are

00:18:32.400 bringing about the removal of all but the most genetically healthy and the most basically conservative and

00:18:40.060 right-wing that's what they're that's what they're bringing about and so from the perspective of those

00:18:45.080 that are right-wing one could kind of argue that they're altruistic aren't they i mean they're a good

00:18:51.040 thing they're a group level adaptation and the group that doesn't have it could be in trouble and

00:18:57.120 could and could die out what they're also doing is they're bringing down civilization and if they're

00:19:02.100 bringing down civilization back to harsher darwinian conditions then of course we need to be able to

00:19:06.580 survive these harsher darwinian conditions but they're also ensuring that there are going to be

00:19:10.320 people that will survive these conditions because they're discouraging those that wouldn't survive it

00:19:15.180 from breeding so and then you get group selection and their group is the strong group so they're

00:19:20.340 purging their own group of the unhealthy that's what wokeness could be argued we do well i so i want

00:19:26.520 to dig into this because this is really cool and it goes on some of the things that we've talked about

00:19:29.960 where uh wokus you know through any avenue that they preach their you know memetic sterilization

00:19:37.460 they are primarily sterilizing people who are genetically susceptible and open to these progressive ideas

00:19:45.300 now i i actually think that it is potentially scary how good they are at this from a genetic level

00:19:51.720 like they're doing a very good job of removing pro-sociality from the human species which which

00:19:57.100 you know it isn't all good but it is definitely a real phenomenon that we are really seeing

00:20:02.840 yeah i'm hearing like drawing out mental illness like a sponge okay drawing out a bunch of other

00:20:08.300 problems but then also like drawing out openness to outside ideas i mean we like who's being killed

00:20:13.620 who do fat activists kill you know they kill you know people who are susceptible to these ideas

00:20:17.980 who do uh pro-abortion advocates kill they they are aborting progressive fetuses who are you know who

00:20:25.560 when when people are open to sexual practices that lead to lower fertility rates you know who is being

00:20:32.280 attracted by this it is typically people who are more susceptible to these ideas the downside is of all

00:20:38.940 of this so of the first series i don't know if the mutants would know that they were mutants or know to be

00:20:43.500 spiteful like there would be no genetic um real reward for them to do this i i think the second

00:20:50.580 theory is closer to the truth and that it definitely is having this effect on populations

00:20:53.960 unfortunately they suppress fertility particularly in the midwit population that is susceptible to their

00:21:01.880 ideas they don't do a good job of suppressing fertility in the idiots or in the severe upper class

00:21:08.060 and i think that this could lead to speciation yeah yeah yeah indeed so i well i think what it no

00:21:14.360 what i know i just let's put it a different way i'm not sure about that because i think that what

00:21:17.780 you what you have with the the the low intelligent people what what the woke are doing as well as

00:21:22.920 bringing down civilization and those those that have you know it's the south africacization of the west

00:21:29.560 basically and those those that have low iq who yeah you're right in on a certain level they're not

00:21:34.340 suppressing their fertility but those people are genetically very unhealthy and are increasingly

00:21:39.460 completely reliant on complex systems the national health service or whatever in in order to survive

00:21:44.780 those people are more morbid so so when when civilization starts to decline and there's there's

00:21:50.920 no bringing about remember they're bringing that about by massive furballed immigration by by by encouraging

00:21:56.400 the midwits not to breed by by whatever they're bringing that about then these people that have low

00:22:01.260 they're just going to die off so so you're you're the the the midwits the midwits the midwits

00:22:06.880 which aren't resigned from the gene pool the low iq people are unable to survive and also remember

00:22:11.440 that one of the things they're bringing about is uh in in bringing about in selecting for people that

00:22:16.980 are more religious and conservative is a much higher level of disgust and this this this has an

00:22:21.800 interesting effect because it has the kind of effect that you have in victorian england where they

00:22:24.940 talked with a massive uh problem with disease and whatever which is why they were so conservative

00:22:29.380 which is that they saw the working classes like vectors of disease that were dangerous and you

00:22:33.160 had to keep away from them and i think you're going to get the spread of these kinds of ideas

00:22:37.040 increasingly that they're almost another people but we just don't you don't go near them that's just

00:22:41.560 no well and and where we would have the biggest disagreement on this is is i would actually argue

00:22:46.400 that they are holding off the collapse of our society through immigration policies that bring in

00:22:53.600 a large portion of of people who are still genetically healthy and haven't been ravaged as much

00:22:58.180 in as as centers of of of long-term urban wealth i think that whenever a place enters like stagnant

00:23:06.440 long-term urban wealth you begin to see a pretty big dysgenic effects and that they are keeping

00:23:11.220 society like broadly alive this is in america more than europe on the other hand on the other hand

00:23:17.660 couldn't you argue that what they're what they're doing is they do this increasingly increasingly is

00:23:21.780 creating a growing sense of sort of almost like native a subculture of native identity

00:23:27.880 almost whereby whereby with their woke policies if basically if you dissent from their ideas then

00:23:33.860 you know you are evil which which inclines people who do dissent from their ideas to increasingly come

00:23:40.600 together into into a subgroup and breed with and breed with each other in a way they wouldn't

00:23:45.600 previously probably have done or needed to do which therefore increases a sense of separation

00:23:50.500 between the the surviving native conservative population and and everybody else so that so

00:23:57.480 so they're they're bringing they're bringing about this genetic similarity process but via exclusion

00:24:03.160 via excluding us from their party by excluding us from their social networks that's what that's what

00:24:08.680 they're that's what they're doing that's how you us three best you know so so i think that on that on

00:24:13.980 that level they're helping to create that i mean it's true that the the the i think it's unsustainable

00:24:19.160 ultimately it gets to a point where there is a there is a growing reaction i think against this this

00:24:23.580 this high immigration but when but when that happens if you don't have the high immigration

00:24:27.880 and you don't improve the birth rate then what you ultimately will have is economic collapse

00:24:32.500 so yeah and i should also point out that there's very different types of immigration within different

00:24:37.460 countries and and for different communities when you have what i would call high barrier immigration

00:24:42.460 you're typically going to actually get the best and the brightest from a country

00:24:46.200 and and when you have low barrier immigration or you're getting the the final squeeze like

00:24:50.840 venezuela is a good example here the early venezuelan immigrants would that notice things

00:24:55.260 happening and came when it was you know it's still difficult to come but now you're sort of getting

00:24:59.540 the final squeeze of the the vine of the country and so you're getting lower quality immigrants than

00:25:04.680 you would in the first few waves of immigration but this has as as bad as the effects are within the

00:25:10.100 united states you need to consider what effects we're having on these developing countries

00:25:13.640 when we do siphon off their best and the brightest i mean look at a place like africa and and

00:25:19.500 generations and generations of siphoning off their best and brightest is definitely going to have an

00:25:23.960 effect on these countries if we continue to maintain this as a policy like genetics exist and genetics are

00:25:30.200 real and so we will destroy not just our own country but their country you know you bring them over

00:25:34.920 then you mimetically sterilize them and then you have to bring the next over and and iterationally this is

00:25:41.800 going to have huge genetic effects around the world and people are underestimating how quickly

00:25:47.780 really strong selective pressures like this can have an effect on things like baseline iq in a population

00:25:53.380 they do because they don't understand that the it's not just it's something like schooling it's it's not

00:25:58.120 just okay the iq the population is going down so the the iq of school kids goes down no it what's the

00:26:03.740 iq of the teachers that has environmental effect on the iq of the children what's what what's the what's

00:26:09.720 the iq of the environment that these teachers can create and so similarly you've got to think about the

00:26:14.880 effect that it has at the right tail what if you halve the force of the population that have an iq above 145

00:26:22.220 it doesn't take much to do that then you are you are you are halving the force of the population that are

00:26:27.520 creating an environment that is bringing the rest of the population environmentally to its phenotypic

00:26:32.680 maximum intelligence and and and so they're becoming they can become rapidly stupider and i think we

00:26:38.420 we see that that's what it's the cultural effect that's very important if you think about if you just

00:26:43.500 watch on youtube the quality of programs that were put out documentaries that were put in the 80s

00:26:48.400 the assumption of the intelligence level of the population compared to the nonsense that is that is

00:26:54.200 that is put out now then then that that is a case in point so yeah it's what's it's what's done in

00:27:00.020 the smart fraction that is i think as important as what's going on in the population and i would

00:27:04.320 encourage if people haven't done this because we had to do this when we were doing channel research

00:27:07.420 is so on youtube by most views for different types of search terms or just for channels and you will

00:27:14.360 see that the most views by far are videos that seem to appeal to almost a toddler like intelligence

00:27:20.920 yeah this is i i think a lot of people and this is a big problem with like the effect of altruist

00:27:25.900 community and stuff like that and a lot of people who live like in upper class or middle upper class

00:27:30.800 communities or creative communities and urban centers they just don't interact with average

00:27:35.860 people so they don't know how bad it's gotten and how far down the slippery slope we are already

00:27:42.520 yeah it's like slapstick like imagine like a family of people of different sizes jumping over a tire

00:27:48.320 that's rolling toward them like down a back alleyway like that's what charles murray said that we get this

00:27:54.140 cognitive stratification and you you don't you don't interact i i particularly don't because i

00:27:59.160 spend my time in finland and i and i speak in finnish and i or i speak in english and you think well

00:28:04.360 the fact they can speak english means that's a bit intelligent or i'm speaking in finnish and so

00:28:08.480 you're not getting the nuances of of how low iq some people might be when i go back to england as i

00:28:15.200 have increasingly am as part of my youtube show and whatever i am shocked like i was i was at

00:28:20.240 heathrow airport of terminal three and the guy that was in charge in charge of the security baggage

00:28:26.680 thing right and i was i complained about the surliness of one particular one particular baggage

00:28:32.880 checker and and and the guy said he said what was the word he used he completely mixed up the

00:28:38.160 the meaning of two words he he he mixed up something being he said well he's not entitled he's not

00:28:44.560 entitled to push a bagel on the carousel but he's not entitled to no he's not he's not entitled to

00:28:49.940 push a bagel on the carousel i said what do you mean he's not allowed to no no he's not entitled to

00:28:54.620 i said do you mean he's not obliged to and he's like yeah yeah he's not obliged to he's like right

00:29:01.080 he's mixed up obliged and entitled they're quite different things and that implies that that's a

00:29:06.740 level of stupidity he's learned this this high order word somewhere entitled or obliged he doesn't

00:29:13.100 know what it means but he's trying to sound clever to the customer that's complaining and so he

00:29:17.460 misuses it i was like how can you not know the meaning of the word entitled i think you're still

00:29:22.520 profoundly on oh sorry overestimating intelligence if that's what your complaint is

00:29:29.080 like do what your quote earlier that i thought was better of what number of politicians can't judge

00:29:34.900 like if a coin flips twice what's the probability complained people on twitter have complained to me

00:29:40.520 about this and they've said it is unreasonable they've said oh i didn't get it and i'm and i'm

00:29:45.460 perfectly intelligent no you're not it's it's it's how can you think well if you flip it forever

00:29:51.840 for eternity it's just going to be one in two if you flip it a hundred times it's one in two

00:29:58.940 how can you think if it's once it's one in two that if it's twice in one in two if it's three times

00:30:03.280 it's one in two four times it's one it's mad it's just well that's i mean i i with that particular

00:30:11.480 issue i think a lot of that comes back to your book the naked classroom where we have not we've

00:30:18.340 not been taught how to engage with logic on our own we've been taught to memorize things and i would

00:30:25.080 even argue that the majority of the people who have the right answer for that have the right answer

00:30:30.420 because someone in a classroom told them to go through this exercise and they were wrong and

00:30:35.700 then they were proven wrong and they felt dumb about it and now they'll never forget it again

00:30:39.380 but i think that when it comes to actually like the proportion of the population that has gone

00:30:44.220 through industrial schooling that would answer correctly that question is incredibly low because

00:30:50.060 of the way that we've been taught math because of the way it was 25 it was half among mps and i think

00:30:56.380 i'm right in saying it was 25 that doesn't surprise me at all though because look at how we're taught

00:30:59.960 we're not taught to reason for ourselves to actually think through it we're taught to memorize

00:31:04.460 basic things yeah well and i think that this is really interesting this point here and it comes to

00:31:09.440 something he was saying earlier is is we are to some extent blessed that the woke mobs because if

00:31:15.080 you are able to think for yourself and you look at the data and you just say what that data says

00:31:20.160 you will be isolated from mainstream society from the portions of society that the woke mob controls

00:31:26.980 and then people like us find each other because you know just saying truth removes you sorry removes

00:31:35.520 you from positions of power in our society today and so in that way they are hopefully sowing the

00:31:42.180 seeds of their own downfall so long as they're not rounding up like machiavelli would everyone who

00:31:47.080 dissents and who says the true thing in the room of liars so that they can then have them i think i think

00:31:52.460 i think it may come to that point but i think we will have we will have escaped to our various

00:31:56.420 neo-byzantiums by the time they simply go through the streets with a machine gun kill people that

00:32:00.640 express any logical reasonable ideas but i do want to argue that there's there's a difference between

00:32:05.320 people who've been ruined by the industrial education system and people who are just inherently

00:32:11.180 kind of speciating and like what they are like the way that they engage with the world the things that

00:32:17.540 entertain them the things that they like the fundamental way that they think

00:32:21.620 yeah okay i mean i just i want to argue that like there are more redeemable from a perspective of

00:32:31.400 like oh these people can like get us off planet these people can build great things people out there

00:32:36.120 then we might otherwise argue that no there's not a lot of people this is always you think that

00:32:41.500 there's a lot of smart people in the world i think that there's a handful i think there's like

00:32:44.680 maybe 50 000 maybe 100 000 i wonder if what simone is arguing is that there are people out

00:32:51.580 there that even if they're not that smart are in the right circumstances useful to building up a

00:32:56.100 society maybe i mean at least i'm arguing that a huge proportion of the people that right now

00:33:00.720 are not going to be able to build anything meaningful make any difference in society that

00:33:06.180 we personally would value in terms of like advancing civilization could have had they gone through

00:33:12.280 had they existed in a different type of society and gone through a different form of education

00:33:16.740 so they've been robbed of that you might be you might be able to create more independent thinking

00:33:22.400 like real people yes they were educated differently not might be you almost certainly would yeah because

00:33:28.200 there's a portion of people and this is particularly true among women where if no matter how smart they

00:33:32.960 are if they see something ashamed by society or they're like this is what's normative in my society

00:33:37.860 that's what they're going to do yeah i mean the basic argument against the lab leak theory is that

00:33:43.680 the wrong kind of people believe it yes yes that's it that's the argument yeah it is funny when you

00:33:49.380 mentioned you know people walking around and like like shooting people in the streets i'm like well we

00:33:53.900 didn't come far from that recently was the whole vaccine thing like they have shown that they're willing

00:33:59.780 to do this kind of stuff they've shown was like the trucker protest in canada when they would go

00:34:04.580 through and like cancel these people's bank accounts that they're willing to go to really i think much

00:34:10.360 more extreme levels than we were aware that they were willing to go yeah they're too cowardly to open

00:34:17.580 fire it's it's it's uh it's it's a more it's a more it's more it's more it's more caputalanimous way

00:34:22.540 of doing things counseling bank accounts making people's lives very difficult at least in at least

00:34:27.000 a hundred years ago you knew where you were a dictatorship just open fire you risk your life that's it

00:34:32.020 no no no you risk social ostracism and social difficulties like like being excluded from a

00:34:37.800 gang of girls and economic ostracism which is the more damaging thing you know we've met guys

00:34:42.680 one guy very like mainstream sort of guy just sort of called out efficacy around vaccine stuff

00:34:49.180 and he's been debanked debanked like like you can't use mainstream banks anymore he's not like going

00:34:56.640 out there spouting racist stuff he's not like going out there just said hey this this covid

00:35:01.700 narrative seems off to me and that's wild to me when they felt that they had power how far they

00:35:09.840 ran with it well it doesn't it doesn't seem surprising to me the covid they they had to

00:35:14.420 give the impression from a machiavellian perspective of just being in control being in control and the

00:35:19.920 covid thing illustrated very clearly the total lack of control they had no idea what they were doing

00:35:24.940 and so much was much worse to to question what they were doing in terms of covid than racism or

00:35:30.580 transphobia or whatever way worse because it was fundamentally this was this this could be

00:35:34.900 revolution i mean this is the government showing they don't know what they're doing yeah yeah i

00:35:41.160 mean just to what you were saying earlier in case any of our audience don't know this yet or they

00:35:44.900 haven't stayed up with the research like the lab leak theory thing the amount of evidence there is

00:35:50.440 for the lab leak theory being accurate is overwhelming it was definitely a lab leak like

00:35:56.780 this is to say it wasn't a lab leak is is is literally uh you know almost equivalent to like

00:36:03.920 the the moon landing was a hoax level like just grasping at straws and yet people were getting

00:36:11.960 deplatformed for saying that in the early days well now i mean people were being deplatformed for

00:36:18.540 anything that the mainstream like government or media establishment was not advocating for including

00:36:24.380 the efficacy of masks right you would get in huge trouble if you questioned that and of course even

00:36:30.040 in the beginning of the pandemic people were saying no no no don't wear masks because one they're not

00:36:33.680 effective and two like the good ones we need for actual health care we are so blessed that we were

00:36:39.820 not public figures when covid was happening oh we would have been so screwed that's right yeah

00:36:44.680 i was but i just felt it best to shut up about it smart very smart very smart i could see that this

00:36:53.200 this was the one thing that just no the third rail oh my goodness what i like about your theory though

00:36:59.980 in in general is that it is broadly optimistic you're you're taking a theory that was quite

00:37:05.300 pessimistic originally and now you're like oh no everything is going to be okay things are working

00:37:10.500 out the way that they're supposed to i mean it'll be okay in the end we'll have to we'll have to go

00:37:15.380 through hell first i was at churchill said if you're going through hell keep on going yeah and

00:37:21.080 there'll be there'll be a lot of unpleasantness first but yeah it seems to be that what i

00:37:25.300 originally thought was that it's just the collapse of society and there'll be a very very long dark

00:37:28.940 age and maybe with uh yeah the the uh uh maybe that will just collapse and that will be a very long

00:37:35.800 dark age but the more i've looked into it the more i'm thinking no we first of all there was a

00:37:40.960 byzantium last time that held out and so there should be this time secondly we have higher much more

00:37:46.600 technology this time so that if we can if we can create these separate states that are useful

00:37:51.780 using this technology then we can start at a higher level and so the renaissance you know and

00:37:56.660 so therefore we could potentially go further and thirdly i can't even begin to predict what effect

00:38:00.700 ai would have on this because it's a new thing in terms of good or bad things i mean the bad thing is

00:38:06.460 that it would just keep society on on sort of life support as it farms out all work to machines and

00:38:12.340 humans are just these sort of sort of farm animals really that are sort of milked by by a by a great

00:38:17.960 big machine and and and go into greater and greater dysgenics and i i don't know that could be terrible

00:38:23.300 actually this this is where the wokes are doing us enormous favor is because of ai if they weren't

00:38:28.520 pushing such strong pressure on us to all conglomerate together we likely wouldn't because of ai because

00:38:35.760 ai doesn't force civilization to collapse in the same way it has in the past if they weren't doing this

00:38:40.840 themselves we wouldn't be building these parallel economies well and isn't there an argument to be

00:38:45.820 made that because of ai there may not even be a dark age because one it will accelerate the

00:38:51.340 extermination of any group that will basically fall into like a hedonic pleasure box because ai will

00:38:57.160 facilitate that those people won't have kids and then those people won't be in the future at all

00:39:01.700 leaving only like really industrious hard-working non-hedonically motivated people left and ai to

00:39:08.360 empower them imagine if it can if it could if it can make i mean the pornography is a problem even

00:39:13.620 now so if you've got pornography that is utterly sating and not but an ersatz relationship which

00:39:20.020 seems real right then then you could see how it's going to be a it's a selection event even more so than

00:39:28.360 than i had previously said and so it it selects out all these men all but the most high quality men

00:39:34.000 all but the most high quality women out and and and you just have this this this group of

00:39:40.540 golden sonic golden people who well so then is this maybe as bad as it gets perhaps we are at the

00:39:47.520 lowest point no no no you you definitely will have an economic collapse after this oh well i think we

00:39:53.020 will we're so we're so if you look at sort of strauss howell whatever all the various theories on this

00:39:58.880 we're so due it i mean we really we're so due economic collapse and war where it's it's we

00:40:06.020 is it happening and i don't notice it or what i don't know but was it that we're just so rich

00:40:10.380 that we're not noticing it but we are absolutely in terms of this cycle i told you about this finished

00:40:14.700 guy this idea of cycles of hormones and whatever we are so we are so due something anytime now that

00:40:21.740 would be this conversation has been fantastic we're really glad we had you on again and i hope

00:40:28.080 that you have a spectacular day and guys do check out his book the the education book on amazon and

00:40:35.720 the naked classroom podcast what the naked classroom and the jolly heretic and my book on this subject we

00:40:43.120 were just discussing is called the past as a future country the coming conservative demographic

00:40:46.640 revolution and i've got another one called breeding the human herd eugenics isgenics and the future of

00:40:51.580 the species and i'm working on while on the outer distribution so it's a new new thing i'm working on

00:40:56.680 oh very fun and well and i love it i i love it because it's such a great thing to throw in our

00:41:02.660 opponents faces one of my favorite tweets was something like feminists and anti-natalists are

00:41:07.980 the only cultural groups that think that they can out-compete their rivals by having fewer kids

00:41:12.780 you know and it's just so silly on its face when you think about it but have a spectacular day

00:41:19.840 yes thank you so much for coming on great great talk to you both okay well i hope you had a great

00:41:24.540 christmas everybody and happy new year and all that

Based Camp - February 22, 2024

Are “Woke” Ideas Secretly Eugenic？ with Ed Dutton

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