Based Camp - Based Camp： Population Collapse and The Pronatalist Foundations Real Goals

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. So the thing that we are most known for publicly is our stuff on demographic

00:00:07.460 collapse, collapsing populations, and the effects it'll have on society. Now, this is not something

00:00:12.040 that we have talked about on our podcast. As to why we haven't talked about this on our podcast

00:00:16.760 yet, it is because we've talked about it in a million other interviews in a million other

00:00:20.800 places. Everywhere, everywhere. Yeah, and I figured people coming to our podcast, they don't

00:00:25.600 want to see it. They've already heard this talk before. But now I am realizing from some

00:00:30.560 of the comments that some of the people don't know it and haven't seen it. And so instead

00:00:35.580 of giving our standard stump speech on this, I want to engage with this topic more conversationally

00:00:41.480 the way that we typically do this podcast. Because when I've sat down and tried to do

00:00:45.200 this iteration of the podcast before, I just end up narrating my stump speech. And then

00:00:50.500 Simone's sitting there not talking or Simone's doing her stump speech. And so let's see if

00:00:55.260 we can turn this into a conversation. Would you like to know more?

00:00:59.260 All right, Malcolm. So what happened aside from you and ending up living in a brothel

00:01:04.140 when you went to South Korea?

00:01:06.660 Well, where I always start with, and this was really where I started to panic about this.

00:01:11.240 It's actually kind of telling that you were living in a brothel and not like in a maternity 1.00

00:01:15.020 ward of a hospital.

00:01:16.500 Yeah, let's talk about living in a brothel because this is part of the story that people 1.00

00:01:19.200 don't know. I had gone to Korea after I graduated from Stanford Business School.

00:01:24.220 And I had sent my wife, we had just done a startup together, which we had invested a lot of our

00:01:30.020 money into. Google had then hired me and then waited six months to employ me. And during that

00:01:36.560 time, the little money we had left after the startup had slowly dwindled to nothing. And then

00:01:41.920 you got into Cambridge for your graduate degree.

00:01:44.160 Yeah. And I was also, in contrast, put in a, because at Cambridge, you belong to the university,

00:01:50.240 but then also you belong to a college. And I'm living in the Catholic dorm, the Catholic

00:01:56.840 college, St. Edmunds. And here you are.

00:01:59.420 Well, and it's this beautiful dorm.

00:02:01.720 Gorgeous.

00:02:01.960 Gorgeous.

00:02:02.680 Yeah.

00:02:02.940 So, I mean, I had to find a way to pay for you to go there, right? And so I ended up having to drop

00:02:08.040 the contract with Google because they couldn't find, I don't know what happened. Like they had

00:02:11.600 this system where they used to be able to hire people, but they wouldn't have a position for you.

00:02:15.900 So I left them and I ended up going to Korea, but I had to live as inexpensively as possible

00:02:22.360 to support my wife. So I was actually the director of strategy at the number one early stage

00:02:26.360 firm in the country. And this was by a government survey at the time. Like they asked all the

00:02:29.900 entrepreneurs where they most want money. Think of it like Y Combinator for Korea. And that story

00:02:34.640 actually gets really crazy and interesting. But anyway, so I chose to stay at a place that was

00:02:40.200 smaller than the room I'm in now. My entire room was really small. It was a twin and then half of

00:02:46.100 the space that a twin would be as a little walking corridor. And then they had a glass cabinet, which

00:02:51.640 was just where the toilet was. And then there was a little shower on top of you because they didn't

00:02:55.080 have a different space for the shower and the toilet. And one day I remember I was walking back to

00:02:59.320 where I was and somebody at my firm, they go, no, no, no, you've got to stop, stop walking

00:03:03.920 down into that neighborhood. It's a really dangerous neighborhood. And I was like, what

00:03:08.740 are you talking about? They're like, look, if you need to get to the subway, here's the

00:03:11.660 way you could go. And I'm like, I, this is the only way I know to get to where I live.

00:03:16.400 So I kept walking and then they're like, okay, well, you just can't walk. You cannot walk

00:03:21.140 down that particular street. And I was like, look, I know no other way. And they're like, okay,

00:03:25.800 at least I'll accompany you. And then I turned to go down this alley when they're like, actually,

00:03:30.920 like, seriously, there's got to be another way to get to where you live. I even can't

00:03:34.720 follow you down this alley. And this alley is where my apartment was. And what I realized

00:03:39.920 is in Korea, anyone who's been there, like it's such a nice, clean place that apparently

00:03:44.740 like even this like really ghetto area where I was living to me as, as a, somebody from the

00:03:50.420 U S felt like really clean and nice. I mean, I guess I should have known given how cheap the

00:03:54.640 apartments were there, but the reason specifically they said is they go, this is where all the

00:03:58.360 brothels are. This is the brothel street. And I was like, Oh, that maybe that's why everyone's 0.84

00:04:03.380 so nice to me.

00:04:06.960 And yet, and then, but what did you learn? I mean, I mean, it's, it's, again, it's telling

00:04:11.260 that you are surrounded by people who are maybe interested in sex, but not families. You weren't

00:04:17.900 enough families. You weren't in like a tenement full of crying babies. You were in just, but

00:04:22.600 anyway, so to get to the part of the story that people normally hear is I was working at

00:04:27.140 this firm and there was this one day where I've got a plan where the country is going

00:04:29.940 to be in 50 to a hundred years. So I'm, I'm, I'm making this plan and I'm looking at the

00:04:36.800 numbers and I'm like, well, shit, there's not going to be a country in a hundred years. 0.96

00:04:41.220 If you look at their current fertility rate, which is like 0.79, 0.8, depending on what you're 0.99

00:04:45.860 looking at, that means for every hundred Koreans in life today, there will be 6.4 to like 5.9

00:04:52.320 great grandchildren. And this number is decreasing almost every year. So it's almost certainly

00:04:56.540 going to be less than that. And you can't survive in the country. If you're looking at

00:05:01.740 like a 93% population collapse over the next century, your economic systems fundamentally

00:05:07.160 cease to work. And I went to the other partners in my firm and I was like, Hey, this is a problem.

00:05:14.760 Like I don't understand how there is a future to the Korean economy. And they're like, Oh yeah, 1.00

00:05:21.980 we all know this. Like everyone in the country, like in the financial class knows this. We just

00:05:26.720 pretend like it's not true because the entire economy stops working the moment we recognize

00:05:31.220 this. And this is something people often don't understand. I mean, what do you mean the entire

00:05:34.600 economy starts working? So here I need to explain how debt works because it's this miraculous

00:05:38.840 thing when things are growing. If I'm making a $10 investment and $8 of that investment is

00:05:44.700 debt and $2 of that investment is equity and it grows by just 10%, my equity investment

00:05:50.800 has actually grown by 50%. If it shrinks by just 10%, my equity investment has decreased

00:05:57.120 by 50%. We have leveraged our land, our businesses, our houses, our families, our students, our cities,

00:06:05.560 our states, our nation states. Literally, it's not like we've taken out leverage on one thing

00:06:12.160 in the economy. We have taken out leverage on literally every layer of the economy, which

00:06:18.520 was beautiful in terms of the prosperity it provided while everything was growing. But

00:06:22.080 the problem is, is everything was only growing in the developed world because the number of

00:06:27.560 workers and consumers was growing exponentially, but the productivity per worker was growing linearly.

00:06:33.880 When I came back to the US, it was like traveling back in time 20, 30 years, because we in the US at our

00:06:44.060 current rate of fertility collapse are about where Korea was in the mid nineties. When I'm talking about

00:06:50.440 the rate of fertility collapse in Korea, I can use fixed numbers, the current fertility rate to talk

00:06:55.580 about how scary things get. But if I'm going to talk about it in the US, because we're still early in

00:07:00.000 the collapse process, I need to project forwards what the fertility rate is going to be. So if the 0.94

00:07:05.680 US fertility rate continues to decline at the same rate it has over the past 10 years going forwards,

00:07:13.040 and we have one generation every 30 years, that means for every 100 Americans alive today, there will

00:07:19.540 be 4.3 great grandchildren. So we are looking at an absolutely catastrophic collapse in the US if we

00:07:26.380 can't get things under control. So I think we need to ask ourselves, who has this under control? Which

00:07:31.400 groups are persistently resistant to this? And it's the groups that deviate most from the mainstream

00:07:36.900 society, but also the groups with the most hope for the future. So if you look around the world, yes,

00:07:43.560 generally the wealthier a country is, the lower its fertility rate is going to be, but you will see

00:07:48.480 some noticeable differentiations from that. For example, you have the US and Israel, which have unusually

00:07:53.760 high fertility rates. And then you have countries like the block countries in China, which have

00:07:58.120 unusually low demographic rates for their economic situation. What appears to be the case here is the

00:08:04.280 less hope a country has, and the more people feel like they are only having kids to service an economic

00:08:10.100 elite, the fewer kids they're going to have. Where you can really see this play out is the one real

00:08:16.600 counter to this rule of no country ever gets its demographics back up again, happened in Georgia,

00:08:23.320 which began to happen in 2013, after they kicked out the last of the communist former rulers and

00:08:30.920 moved to total self-management. And then you get this rapid reversal in fertility rates, because people

00:08:35.900 began to feel like they had hope again, and that they weren't just having kids to be like a grist for 0.84

00:08:40.240 some machine that didn't care about them. But I want to hear how you began to engage with some of

00:08:46.040 these ideas, Simone. What really blew my mind was when you thought to ask Spencer Greenberg to borrow

00:08:53.760 some survey data that he had to find what traits correlated with families that were having a lot of

00:09:00.000 kids. Because the big question we had was, all right, well, if a lot of cultures are just going to be

00:09:05.460 extinguishing themselves, like in South Korea, like which cultures on the flip side of that are

00:09:10.160 going to be inheriting the future? Yes, because we don't believe that just a collapsing world economy

00:09:16.060 is a reason to bring kids into the world. We also will, we also believe it's expected that there

00:09:21.180 will be a collapsing world economy. It's going to happen. So the bigger question is, okay, so that's

00:09:24.640 going to happen. I mean, ideally, nations will plan for a little bit better. We're trying to make that

00:09:29.420 a possibility. By advocating, that's a big purpose of our foundation. Yes. A lot of people

00:09:35.260 see us as, like, we're more like a climate change organization that's like, climate change is going

00:09:39.800 to happen no matter what we do. We should start planning around it at this point. Yeah. But then

00:09:44.640 on the flip side, it's also really important to just look beyond that, to look to the distant future

00:09:48.980 of what will the future of humanity look like in the face of this if there is an intervention,

00:09:53.960 if there isn't an intervention. If there isn't an intervention, what we can expect is a cultural mass

00:10:00.240 extinction. And then the question is, okay, well, if there's a cultural mass extinction,

00:10:03.680 will it lead to, like, a smaller but maybe super diverse ecosystem that then grows from there,

00:10:10.240 which is kind of what we'd be cool with? Or is it going to end up with a monoculture?

00:10:14.500 Anyway, we... Well, explain what you mean. So, I mean, first I'm going to say our naive assumption

00:10:18.460 going into this is that most cultural groups that weren't religious would die off, and most cultural

00:10:25.200 groups that were religious would stay. Yeah. And individual religiosity would be reinforced,

00:10:30.920 because the amount, not a person's religion, but their amount of religiosity is highly heritable

00:10:35.920 when you look at twin studies. So these are... So there's different ways of doing this. You can do

00:10:39.860 this using polygenic risk scores, but you can also do it using twins who are separated at birth,

00:10:45.400 identical twins. And then contrasting with fraternal twins who were separated at birth and raised by

00:10:49.000 different families. So they're the same ethnicity. They're in other ways very similar to each other.

00:10:53.380 What's... The only thing that would really cause this difference is if it was in some way associated with

00:10:57.780 genes. This is how you can get an idea of how much of a person's sociological profile within a specific

00:11:01.880 metric is genetic. Anyway, so I was like, okay, so what this is probably going to do is select for

00:11:06.860 religiosity, both culturally and likely genetically. And that's not what we found. And so up until that

00:11:13.480 point, we hadn't really been freaked out, because I like religiosity. People might... I'm fairly pro-religiosity.

00:11:20.120 I think our family, while we are technically secular, we are religious extremists, and we live 0.98

00:11:26.040 kind of like religious extremists, and we practice our life kind of like religious extremists,

00:11:29.600 and almost all of our friends are religious extremists. So... And we should be clear.

00:11:33.840 Religiosity doesn't mean necessarily that someone believes in God or adheres to a specific religion.

00:11:39.520 Religiosity is fervency of faith in something. So some of the most religious people are actually 0.88

00:11:44.400 atheists. You'll know, because they'll tell you. This is why I should have known this wasn't true. 1.00

00:11:49.080 If you hung out with skeptic communities or in online spheres, what you'll know is that many of the

00:11:54.060 the people in these communities used to be some of the biggest firebrands before deconverting.

00:11:58.860 And when I think about my daily life, when I think about like the sociological profile of

00:12:02.440 religiosity, I haven't been preached to by a Christian in like 10 years. I get accosted on

00:12:08.000 the streets by progressive extremists with their preaching every other week. So it's clear that this

00:12:14.780 mind virus in our society is uniquely good at peeling out people from these cultures with a high level of 1.00

00:12:21.940 sociological religiosity. But I'd love you to go into the data and what we found, Simone.

00:12:27.900 So what we did find correlated highly with high birth rates is outgroup hatred or dislike. So this

00:12:35.940 is people responding to questions asking if they'd be cool if like one of their kids dated someone of a

00:12:40.800 different race or cultural group. And also very keen comfort with hierarchy and like high power

00:12:47.820 distance. So really what you're looking at is xenophobic authoritarians, right? I mean, that's

00:12:53.880 kind of like the...

00:12:54.800 So if you look at it, it's something called right wing authoritarian personality. You can look it up

00:12:58.660 on Wikipedia. There's a topic of this. And it's actually highly heredible as well, which is done using

00:13:04.340 polygenic data, like all these other things. So it is something that can be condensed within a population.

00:13:09.760 If it is really genetically successful, which is showing itself to be right now.

00:13:15.220 And it makes sense. Like, I mean, in the end we were like, oh, duh, like, of course it's not

00:13:18.920 religiosity because religiosity isn't going to maintain cultural fidelity. What will maintain

00:13:24.020 cultural fidelity is not allowing your people to consider outside ideas. Like that is a kind of a

00:13:30.040 big thing. More authoritarian cultures are going to keep people in, have strict rules. A degradation or

00:13:36.000 erosion of rules and discipline is one of the things that causes a hard culture to become a

00:13:41.200 soft culture. And soft cultures are those that are most likely to see their fertility rates degrade

00:13:45.860 over time because there's basically less motivation to do anything difficult.

00:13:49.280 So the right wing authoritarian personality is not actually a right wing thing. It's seen equally

00:13:54.020 in both extremists on the right and extremists on the left. This is what, if you're a left wing

00:13:59.420 person, makes you Antifa, for example. Just an extreme hatred about groups, unwillingness to listen to

00:14:04.840 anyone else. And a preference for internal hierarchical structures and the dehumanization

00:14:09.360 of people who aren't like everything that I think anyone really who is honest about what Antifa really

00:14:15.080 stands for. I mean, it's a fascist organization that just labels itself anti-fascist. It's like

00:14:19.480 the Patriot Act, blaming itself as patriotic when it is anything but patriotic. But anyway, so you have

00:14:26.040 these Antifa goon type personality clusters, which is going to increase. So why is it called the right

00:14:30.920 wing authoritarian population cluster? It's called that because it was named by professors at

00:14:35.780 universities who saw all these traits as negative and like were unable to see them in their own

00:14:40.640 ideological faction. But since then, other professors have gone, looked at this and found that it actually

00:14:47.040 is present in leftist extremists as well. So essentially what you're getting is this personality

00:14:52.120 cluster that creates dangerous ideological extremists, is what's being culturally and genetically selected

00:14:59.240 for in our society right now, not religiosity. And again, this makes sense, right?

00:15:04.900 What's really cool is you can see this phenomenon happening in real time. If you look at the period

00:15:10.800 where fertility rates started collapsing in the US, and then you lay that over voting patterns,

00:15:16.100 you can begin to see the two parties shift further and further apart due to this new pressure in both

00:15:22.840 the cultures and sociological profiles that are being selected for, which I think can give us some idea of

00:15:28.740 how quickly changes selective pressures like this can be represented in major real world events.

00:15:37.280 And this is not an older phenomenon either. It's continuing to happen, as can be seen in this

00:15:42.480 other graph here. Is it likely that selective pressures like this is solely to explain this phenomenon?

00:15:49.020 No, very unlikely. There's likely a number of other pressures that are causing this cultural drift

00:15:53.600 we're seeing here. However, it is very interesting that the phenomenon would predict that we would

00:15:59.420 see this in the data. And it's also something we see in the data at exactly the time we would predict

00:16:04.440 it. Right. So it makes a lot of sense that these cultures would be like this because cultures that are

00:16:11.080 more porous, more capable of losing people are going to lose them and degrade into other cultures or lose 0.99

00:16:18.580 their culture or lose their populations. Those cultures that kind of have these, these high walls

00:16:23.220 around them, these, these barriers are going to be.

00:16:26.300 Well, also personality wise. So you are somebody who has this religiosity thing. This seems to correlate

00:16:33.260 most with like how much you study your culture, how much you study your religion, which isn't actually

00:16:40.100 that protective of staying within a culture. Whereas not listening to outsiders and not engaging with

00:16:45.380 outside ideas, that's going to be very protective of staying within a birth culture.

00:16:50.380 Yeah. Yeah. Like I can actually think so. A lot of the most religious people I know have actually

00:16:54.340 switched across many religions over time. Like they've gone from joining the Rajneesh and wearing 0.98

00:16:59.280 orange and having really wild names to going to conservative Christian. And so that shows that the

00:17:04.220 religiosity always has been high, but they did move from one culture to another. Whereas people who are 0.95

00:17:09.900 much more closed minded or unwilling to look at outside ideas wouldn't do that kind of switching.

00:17:14.080 Right. But, but so religiosity, high religiosity of people who stay within these, these harder

00:17:18.260 cultures. So what are these hard cultures that you're talking about and why are they useful to

00:17:22.800 fertility rates? Humanity can be thought of as our sociological tendencies, the aspects of our

00:17:29.500 personality that are predilected one way due to our biology and our genes. This can be thought of as

00:17:35.420 sort of like our firmware or our hardware. Then sitting on top of that are memetic clusters. Today,

00:17:41.720 when we talk about memes, we often talk about memes as infecting an individual and then using that

00:17:46.200 individual to replicate themselves through converting other individuals. But historically,

00:17:49.640 memetic clusters function very differently than that. So what we today call religions and cultures,

00:17:54.440 which in the book, The Pragmatist Guided Craft and Religion, we call cultivars,

00:17:58.000 can be thought of as these sort of memetic clusters that sat on top of our firmware, but was also subject

00:18:04.340 to the same pressures that determined individual fitness. Because mass conversions during early human

00:18:11.020 history were actually fairly rare and occurred only during very specific periods of time. And even when

00:18:17.920 they did occur, often the culture would shift dramatically. Anyway, to get to the main point

00:18:22.360 here, the level to which a person's culture carried with their family over time was really,

00:18:28.880 really high in a historic context. And what that means is that the evolutionary processes could

00:18:35.180 apply to cultures and cultural practices, which increased individual biological fitness could

00:18:42.340 outcompete cultural practices, which did not increase individual biological fitness. This is how you find

00:18:48.580 things like Judaism and Islam figuring out handwashing literally hundreds of years before the secular

00:18:55.720 world figured out handwashing because there were selective pressures on the groups that practice

00:18:59.460 handwashing rituals that you didn't see in the groups that didn't. And this also has a play in many

00:19:03.740 psychological tendencies that individuals have, right? So by that, what I mean is wherever you look in

00:19:10.500 the world, whether it's Ramadan or Feast of the Firstborn or Lent, you have these arbitrary self-denial

00:19:15.460 rituals, which we now know strengthen the inhibitory pathways in your prefrontal cortex and make it easier to

00:19:21.480 shut down in truth of thoughts. And now the secular world is beginning to figure this out, whether it's

00:19:26.120 juice cleanses or like arbitrary fasting rituals. So these older cultural groups actually did a lot

00:19:34.540 to both increase a person's mental health while also increasing their fertility. This is why out of

00:19:40.900 pretty much all of these widely successful cultural groups in the world, almost all of them have some

00:19:45.640 level of underlying homophobia in them. It increases biological fitness, even though it decreases

00:19:51.360 individual quality of life. So we're not saying that all of these are good things, but you will see

00:19:56.720 these patterns begin to exist across cultural groups that systemically find themselves out-competing

00:20:01.740 cultural groups. So the tendency to stay within one of these cultural groups that has all of these

00:20:08.180 software patches that co-evolved with our biology over time leaves individuals to often be

00:20:15.340 psychologically healthier. That's why you see religious individuals almost always being

00:20:18.140 psychologically healthier in sort of big studies done on this, unless they're like born same-sex 1.00

00:20:22.760 attracted or something like that. And then you get negative outcomes, but same-sex attracted

00:20:26.920 individuals born into religious communities have higher fertility rates even today. So it's still 1.00

00:20:33.800 optimizing for like technically what was being selected for when some cultures were out-competing other

00:20:39.020 cultures. So this tendency to not listen to outsiders and to think less of outsiders is of course

00:20:45.220 going to be protective of people in iterations of these traditional cultural groups. So the

00:20:51.180 iterations of Christianity that were more open to outsiders, more open to outside ideas, these were

00:20:56.980 the most porous to the virus and the first to die. They got infected and then the virus started using them

00:21:03.520 to just replicate the virus itself. So let's talk about this concept of the virus. If we think of

00:21:09.800 cultural groups as these sort of evolving entities, well, there's one strategy for an evolving entity that

00:21:17.400 something could optimize itself around. It could say, I actually don't care about increasing an individual's

00:21:22.880 biological fitness. What I'm going to do is I am going to convert individuals to this new cultural

00:21:27.900 practice. Then I am going to use them to just convert other individuals to this cultural practice. And in fact,

00:21:34.580 having kids is a bad thing because it lowers the amount of time they have to go out and just constantly

00:21:39.560 try to convert other people. We'll do another video on the virus and how it works and why it's best

00:21:44.960 thought of as a virus. And yeah, we'll do that some other time. But anyway, so it began to infect

00:21:50.660 these cultural groups that were more open, more pro-social, more open to outside ideas. And they began

00:21:55.960 to be mimetically sterilized. That is what caused the tendency of this strictly hierarchical,

00:22:02.900 I don't like outsiders view to be the most evolutionarily successful view within current

00:22:08.140 human context. When we found that out, that's when we began to panic. That's when we began to be like,

00:22:14.760 oh, it's not just religious people. Like we like religious people. It's a very specific sliver

00:22:20.500 of religious communities that the ISISification of the world is what we say. It's the ISIS-like 1.00

00:22:26.820 communities, not Muslim, Christians, Jews. We all have ISISs that are going to out-compete the other 1.00

00:22:34.180 groups. And that's where I began to really get worried about the future and began to say, well,

00:22:39.940 is it even possible to create an alliance of deviant cultures? So this is cultures that are 0.86

00:22:46.960 resistant to the virus, but that are also pluralistic and open to creating an intercultural

00:22:53.060 alliance to protect themselves, both from the virus, but then eventually from these other cultural 1.00

00:23:00.720 groups that once the virus is self-exterminated, because it is a self-exterminating thing, it's

00:23:05.540 culturally castigating people, can exist into the future. Yeah. So the big question is, will the future

00:23:11.560 be a coercionist caliphate of some sort, or will a future be a pluralistic, diverse ecosystem?

00:23:24.720 And we are hoping for and fighting for the latter, but we think that without intervention,

00:23:30.460 the former will form. Some of our progressive watchers, they may be listening to this, are like,

00:23:34.220 yeah, but what about a future that's like progressive and humanist? And it's like, you guys have

00:23:37.280 lost. You are so dead as a cultural group. You're like somebody who's experienced a lethal dose of

00:23:42.880 radiation and doesn't know that all their DNA has been scrambled already. Your fertility rates are so 0.86

00:23:48.400 catastrophically low. Your entire social structure, this is why the economic thing matters. Because

00:23:55.720 what it means, and this is what I really realized in Korea, is this dominant cultural group that exists

00:24:01.680 around the world today. The New York, Seoul, like these cultures differentiate a bit, or London or Paris.

00:24:07.280 It's the rural cultures that really differentiate. It's these weird, or the weird religious cultures, 1.00

00:24:11.400 like in New York, like who's really different in New York. It's the Hasidic Jews, right? Like 1.00

00:24:15.220 they're, they're from different cultural groups, but this dominant cultural group in Korea, I was able

00:24:20.500 to see how it reacted to demographic collapse. Like, does it have a state at which it realizes how bad the

00:24:27.200 situation has gotten? And what I learned is it doesn't, it does not have the capacity to react to this.

00:24:32.200 In fact, it just begins to double down on all of its positions more and more and more. Like in Korea, 0.91

00:24:37.960 what is it with women, the four nose movement. So you can see how Korea, so let's talk about how 1.00

00:24:42.220 screwed Korea is already. So not only are they in this horrible demographic situation right now, 1.00

00:24:47.780 but in addition to being in a horrible demographic situation, they're already at a point where 60% of

00:24:52.940 their population is above the age of 40. There's basically no way they could solve this. They would 1.00

00:24:56.640 need like a massive cultural push. They have spent $20 billion in like the past, how many years? And

00:25:02.240 it's, it's done almost nothing. And meanwhile, their society, if you look at the people who are

00:25:07.140 most infected with this, this sort of progressive mind virus that exists around the world, well,

00:25:12.020 now you've got the, the four nose movement, right? Which is women being like, no men, no sex, 1.00

00:25:16.980 no engagement. Like that's going to make the problem for that cultural group even worse.

00:25:21.200 And so what that showed me is, is that there is no like adaptive ability within this progressive

00:25:27.220 group. They're just going to go extinct. So when we think about the future, what we think about is

00:25:31.800 that the cultural groups that are conservative, that are fighting this mind virus, but want a

00:25:36.840 genuinely pluralistic future. And then the cultural groups that are just like progressives in disguise

00:25:41.300 and are just waiting for their turn to exercise their culture over other people and to try

00:25:47.180 their own shot. I mean, now that the progressives are done trying to erase everyone's

00:25:50.780 individual culture. They get a shot in the sun at doing it themselves. And, and they still make

00:25:55.840 good allies for now, but they're, they're clearly not long-term values aligned with us.

00:26:01.060 However, we also want to be clear that we don't see them. We don't think any cultural group other 0.75

00:26:05.280 than our own, because obviously it's our own cultural group. So obviously we're going to see

00:26:08.960 the better, but it's like a weird cultural group. It's just our family. So it's not like

00:26:12.220 anyone else, but we don't see any cultural group as being intrinsically better than any other

00:26:16.180 cultural group. Yeah. Like once someone in an interview asked me like, well, do you think there

00:26:19.880 are any groups that shouldn't be breeding? And I'm like, no, like I want everyone to be represented

00:26:24.640 in the future. I want more than everyone to be represented. I want new groups to form.

00:26:28.500 But this is, but this is really important. We do not have, if a group doesn't believe in gender

00:26:33.500 equality, we don't see that as a negative thing. And we don't see that group is needing to be

00:26:38.040 stamped out. Yeah. You do you. However, then people will be like, well, what are you talking

00:26:42.260 about? Like this idea of like xenophobic, like hierarchical groups. Why are you worried about

00:26:47.620 them? Right. We're worried about them, not because we see them as worse than other groups,

00:26:53.020 but we do have a vested interest in our own cultural group surviving for a long time.

00:26:57.760 And these groups will try to erase us. Yeah. Like it is naive to think that I could live in like ISIS

00:27:04.720 controlled territory and maintain broadly the lifestyle I maintain today. I and my kids would

00:27:10.120 be killed. I can even see this within the fact that our family uses things like IVF and genetic

00:27:16.060 selection. Like we do a lot of weird stuff that there are cultural groups in the U S where if

00:27:20.640 they had dominant power right now, they would try to erase us as a cultural group. And that's why we

00:27:26.840 are interested in this alliance because we understand that we need to create an alliance with the other

00:27:31.480 cultural groups that either don't exist parasitically. Like they don't just exist to take people from

00:27:37.040 healthy cultural groups that are able to motivate fertility in their populations.

00:27:39.860 But that also that we will eventually need an alliance to protect all of these cultural groups

00:27:46.960 from the next threat after the progressives have self-extinguished themselves. Yeah.

00:27:51.440 This is sort of next rise of the Nazis, basically. It's going to be bad. And it's where the future is 0.93

00:27:58.340 inevitably going because it's such a successful strategy in the world today.

00:28:01.600 But that's our, that's our tomorrow problem.

00:28:03.780 But anyway, now back to demographic graphs more broadly. So the problem that we have as a world

00:28:09.780 is we are going to see population begin to collapse within the developed world. Now people often say,

00:28:17.800 oh, well, can't you use immigrants to fix this? Right. And it's like, well, you do know that, 0.99

00:28:22.340 that as of 2019 by the UN that famously inflates these numbers, that even by the UN's own statistic

00:28:28.200 as of 2019, all of Latin America, so Central America, South America, and the Caribbean collectively

00:28:32.920 fell below repopulation rate. We're like a farmer who is taking water from his neighbor's pond to

00:28:40.180 irrigate his crops because he has unsustainable water management practices himself. And you point

00:28:44.600 out that this neighbor's pond is also evaporating. And the farmer's like, oh, I don't care. It doesn't

00:28:50.640 affect me. It'll affect future generations or something. It's insane. And then they're like, well,

00:28:54.880 yeah, but Africa still has high fertility rates. Right now in the world, countries, nations that are

00:29:00.280 above repopulation rate typically have a per capita income. So that is per person on average of below

00:29:05.780 $5,000 a year. So this is an extremely low level of earning. And basically as soon as people in a

00:29:12.580 nation start opting in to the economy, once they start getting jobs, they stop having kids. And so

00:29:19.620 that means that basically as soon as people in Africa who are in nations that are below this number

00:29:25.120 start to get access to a little more wealth, which presumably we really, really want,

00:29:31.400 because it also means better health care, better education, better gender equality,

00:29:35.360 they will stop being able to fuel the rest of the world in terms of supplying a labor force.

00:29:42.040 So it's, it's, I mean, the, the incentive that is created by someone who says, oh, we'll just rely

00:29:48.300 on immigration is basically, oh, well, okay, well, we're also kind of incentivized to keep these

00:29:53.560 impoverished nations really impoverished. Cause if we don't.

00:29:56.700 Yeah. And even if it's not what they mean to create, you're creating an environment where

00:30:00.720 the developed world's economy becomes completely reliant on preventing Africa from developing. 0.99

00:30:06.180 Yeah, exactly.

00:30:06.820 And we're using Africa, like a human, like, like a, a farm, like a human farm. Like it's 1.00

00:30:12.780 really sick when you think about it.

00:30:14.840 Not a good look. Thought we learned that lesson.

00:30:17.380 Well, it's a bad look what they're saying. Yeah. I mean, think about what you're saying in the U.S.

00:30:20.900 The progressive solution to the social security problem is because they didn't put in the effort

00:30:25.240 themselves to have kids. They're going to import predominantly black people from Africa to support 1.00

00:30:30.880 a bunch of non-working predominantly white people who didn't put in the effort to prepare for the 0.95

00:30:35.620 future themselves. Like that's not a good look. That's not the not racist plan. That's a really

00:30:42.560 bad plan. What we want is a world where somehow we can find a way to make prosperity and broad

00:30:52.720 access to education compatible with a stable fertility rate. The problem is for the progressive

00:31:01.160 mindset is this social virus that has so contaminated their thought that has so homogenized their

00:31:08.860 population. It is not compatible with that thriving, which means some other cultural group needs 1.00

00:31:15.580 to be invented and needs to work for that to happen. Or one of the conservative cultural groups

00:31:20.940 that exists right now needs to rise to dominance for that to happen. And so what you're saying

00:31:25.240 is, yes, we can win. We can have prosperity, white access to education, hopefully even gender

00:31:32.620 equality, but we can't have that. And this urban monoculture still existing. And, and obviously

00:31:40.780 that's an existentially threatening idea to the people who are benefiting from this urban monoculture

00:31:46.340 to this culture's priest cast, to the people who determine truth for this urban monoculture. And who is

00:31:52.260 that? That's the, the academics. That's the journalists that it was true. Right. And you could say,

00:31:57.600 oh, but academia, academia is getting worse and worse after academia was infected. It got worse

00:32:02.360 at determining truth. It's the replication crisis has gone up. The amount of money needed

00:32:05.880 to get individual things. It is not academia for the past 20 years is not pre eighties academia. That

00:32:12.280 was a completely different organizational structure. Heck, we have friends who've decided

00:32:16.740 to discount all medical research post 1950. So I think there's also this logarithmic increase

00:32:22.760 in, in bureaucratic bankruptcy in the academic world. Yeah. And, and I think that the scientific

00:32:28.180 method in and of itself is the correct way to approach truth. However, I think that people are

00:32:33.980 really naive and they think that's the way that academia determines truth. Academia is this weird

00:32:39.240 organic system of citations, which are used to determine your position within a status hierarchy.

00:32:43.960 And then eddies that form. So this is something we often talk about, which is academic eddies,

00:32:50.960 which is to say, if there's a concept in academia that a lot of people are writing on,

00:32:57.560 there is more incentive for more people to write on it because, well, it's what your advisor is going

00:33:01.860 to do. So you basically always do your first few research papers on what your advisor does.

00:33:06.680 Those are the conferences you attend. Those are the conferences that exist. And so there is a huge

00:33:11.660 disincentive to study anything outside of the zeitgeist. There's entire departments in universities,

00:33:17.460 like the women's studies department that are basically dedicated to getting you fired. 1.00

00:33:22.240 If you do something that goes outside of the ideological police. So why would you do that? Like,

00:33:27.860 what's the incentive to you as an academic? It can be really hard to get a job. If you publish

00:33:32.480 something like we have academic friends who have published just the data and gotten fired for this

00:33:37.260 because there is entire departments now dedicated to going over everything that's being published by

00:33:44.320 the formerly productive parts of academia and then just getting people fired. So this idea that I am

00:33:49.620 pro-scientific method. I am anti this weird, broadly new system that we use in academia. And I think what

00:33:56.440 we need is an academic reformation. This situation is what the reformation was. There was a group that said

00:34:02.520 truth should best be determined by people who spent their entire life studying it and then have been

00:34:05.960 certified by a central bureaucracy. And then another group that said that central bureaucracy is prone

00:34:09.720 to corruption. And then there was the reformation. And then I think post the reformation, the bureaucracy

00:34:15.760 cleaned itself up pretty significantly. I suspect that after the academic reformation, the academic

00:34:20.740 system might be able to fix itself. And then hopefully then we have two competing parallel knowledge.

00:34:25.260 All the better. Yeah. Because competition breeds strength. It's good.

00:34:30.100 But I want to know your broad thoughts on what this means for the future of our species.

00:34:35.280 What I think people discount, because a lot of people kind of don't care. They may not be long-term

00:34:40.760 oriented and that's not logically inconsistent. I mean, maybe you just don't really care that much

00:34:44.300 of the future or you just are more oriented around problems right now. But I think the important thing

00:34:50.040 to remember is a lot of the problems that you may care about right now, be it feminism or animal rights

00:34:55.320 or the environment or overall suffering will also be problems in the future. And if you do not ensure

00:35:02.020 that your culture is somehow represented in the future, those problems won't be solved after

00:35:07.500 you die. And so there's a lot of environmentalists to say, I'm not going to have kids or I'm not going

00:35:12.280 to have more than one kid or two kids because that's going to hurt the environment. But if they end up

00:35:16.940 not just having few kids, but also raising kids to believe that the world is falling apart,

00:35:23.000 to give them a sense of hopelessness that almost ensures that they won't have kids or at least have

00:35:27.360 very few kids, you're basically doing what you, Malcolm, have been describing this whole time,

00:35:33.980 which is you're creating a sterilizing culture, a culture that will self-extinguish. And those

00:35:38.700 values just won't be represented. So we often, for example, get accused of trying to broker in some

00:35:44.360 kind of a handmaid's tale future or coerce women into having kids, which is totally not true.

00:35:49.240 We really care about reproductive rights and freedom. But what we want to turn around and say is,

00:35:55.380 listen, the future that we'll get if people like you who hold views around reproductive rights,

00:36:01.020 who hold views around women's rights, don't choose to have kids, don't choose to pass your culture on

00:36:06.000 in a sustainable way, that's what we're getting. Which is, it's really, it's very frustrating because

00:36:11.900 the very people who care about these things are, to a great extent, the very people who truly are going

00:36:18.520 to be responsible for this future. It's on them. And of course, like we feel it's on us because we also

00:36:23.900 want to, we want to protect this. Well, I can keep taking kids from conservative groups.

00:36:28.920 I can keep poaching kids. My culture can survive entirely parasitically off of nearby healthy 0.61

00:36:36.020 cultures. What is your response to that? What that's going to do is ultimately breed cultures

00:36:43.900 that are more resistant to outside incursions, to people taking away or picking off their young,

00:36:52.300 essentially. So imagine that there's a herd of rhinos and poachers come out. And if they can

00:36:57.580 sneak up to a rhino and grab it and take it away and sell it or whatever, eventually all of the

00:37:03.020 friendly, docile rhinos are going to be removed from the gene pool. And you're going to end up with 0.99

00:37:07.260 super aggressive, super paranoid rhinos that charge at everything that moves. And that's what we're 0.98

00:37:12.880 creating. Yeah.

00:37:14.240 Yeah. Like where you have these deer that will like, just come up and eat out of people's hands.

00:37:17.240 That's because in Japan, they didn't kill the deer that went up and ate out of people's hands.

00:37:21.640 Whereas in Europe, they did. So our deer are... You can do this to a human population and you can

00:37:27.300 actually see this in Amish populations. There's been some interesting studies where they show

00:37:30.300 that the longer an Amish family has been within their culture, and you see this intergenerationally,

00:37:36.060 fewer and fewer of their kids leave the culture.

00:37:38.320 Ah, so there you go. That's our tomorrow problem. We have a today problem.

00:37:43.120 But no, we live in the last prosperous age for a while. Humanity goes through cycles.

00:37:49.260 Like people are like, why can you so confidently predict a downfall scenario? It's like, you know

00:37:52.900 that this happened before. Like you look at Athens. We entered this period where LGBT began 0.98

00:37:58.940 to become accepted more. Women would get more equality. You look at the height of the Roman

00:38:03.080 empire. Hedonism would begin to become more common. And then you'd have this collapse.

00:38:07.120 We keep seeing this in history. You see the end of the Renaissance. We are heading towards 0.61

00:38:13.660 another collapse and we're seeing all the signs of it. And a lot of conservatives, I think

00:38:18.000 they take this and they say, well, that means that like acceptance of LGBT groups is what

00:38:22.780 causes the collapse. And I'm like, no, a collapse is definitionally a decline from a cultural

00:38:26.940 height. Okay. That doesn't mean that those things are causing the collapse, but it would

00:38:31.600 be nice. I do think the rise in hedonism, I do think the rise in a lack of self-control

00:38:37.080 does lead to classes.

00:38:39.380 Well, I mean, isn't it just the suggestion that like when people are given an excuse to

00:38:44.520 go soft and they're given the technology and the amenities by a city or a civilization to

00:38:50.160 go soft, then they go soft. And then when you no longer have humans essentially holding

00:38:55.900 up that civilization, then that civilization crumbles.

00:39:00.180 Yeah. No, I mean, I think, I think you're right. And so what we're trying to do is, is

00:39:05.060 we know that like we are in one of the last prosperous eras, which means we need to accumulate

00:39:09.520 resources for our kids, but also use things like the technology we have that can access

00:39:14.720 large populations to begin to build this cultural alliance network that can ensure, because my

00:39:19.800 kids, they're like, you know, in a supposed future, a free internet doesn't really exist

00:39:23.240 anymore because either the virus has taken it over or some fascist group has taken it

00:39:26.600 over. Well, then they'd say, why would you, when you still had the free internet, did

00:39:30.360 you not use it to broadcast this signal? Did you not use it to begin to collect people

00:39:33.820 together? What we're trying to do is create parallel networks, parallel communication

00:39:38.660 channels that can begin to function after things do begin this, this process of decline

00:39:44.000 so that the next time we have a civilization, so that the next time we have one of these

00:39:50.260 periods of Renaissance, it can be perpetual. Yeah. The iteration that our culture creates

00:39:55.020 and, and one of the things that we're very fortunate about, and this is always one of

00:39:59.720 our biggest quotes is thank God the forces that are arrayed against us are not as competent

00:40:06.980 as they are malevolent because the progressives are self extinguishing. Like we basically need

00:40:11.660 to do nothing other than protect our kids from them. The fascist groups are dangerous. Like

00:40:17.340 they do want to see people like us extinguished eventually. They do want to take our kids often

00:40:22.700 just as much as the progressives do, but they're often technophobic as well. They're often very

00:40:28.560 conservative in how they relate to technology, which makes them outcompetable by technophilic

00:40:34.240 populations. Well, yeah. I mean, I, I think one of the futures is a future in which kind of like with

00:40:40.800 Jews, they need us because of certain like economies or businesses that like we do. And that they,

00:40:46.640 for some moral or cultural reason cannot do, if that makes sense by that.

00:40:52.000 Well, so like, like many Jewish groups became powerful because they, for example, were capable

00:40:58.000 morally, religiously of, of being bankers in, in civilizations where the mainstream culture could

00:41:05.260 morally not earn interest on lent money, for example. I mean, obviously cities benefit when they

00:41:12.380 grow at least from, from debt and leverage. So we hope to be, to find a way with these little

00:41:18.560 niche cultures that will not be part of the dominating culture of that, that inherits the 1.00

00:41:24.120 future that will have some kind of technology that is, that is maybe, maybe morally repugnant

00:41:29.820 to the future dominating civilization, but still necessary to it. So they, they need to keep us

00:41:34.220 around for something. They may hate us. They may pogrom us, but they will keep us around.

00:41:37.980 Well, I think what you're missing here, and it's really important to clarify this is every

00:41:42.820 cultural branch. Like if you're looking at a cultural evolutionary tree has one of these

00:41:48.260 fascist factions within it. We call it the ISIS because ISIS is like a, an evoked, like it has

00:41:54.580 a lot of emotions evoked where that people can imagine what we mean by that.

00:41:56.840 It's an easy shorthand for a religious state that scares people.

00:42:01.240 Right, right. But what I'm, what I'm saying is, well, specific type of religious state that scares 0.98

00:42:06.800 people, which is the type of religious state that is out competing others right now. Right.

00:42:10.940 Yeah.

00:42:11.400 So the point that I'm making is it's unlikely that any one of these is going to dominate the

00:42:15.400 future. It's likely you're going to have a number of them fighting amongst each other.

00:42:18.920 And that was also true historically. If one of them ever conquered the entire world, they,

00:42:24.260 they don't have to worry about the inefficiencies of not allowing bankers, right?

00:42:28.820 Yeah.

00:42:28.980 Because they control the world at that point. The reason why, for example, all of the European 1.00

00:42:33.620 powers still needed the banking class was because they were competing against other cultural

00:42:39.060 groups at the time. And so it mattered much more to them that their group won than the

00:42:44.500 cultural purity of their group. And this is why you had this thing where you'd have a

00:42:48.140 pogrom, they'd kick out the Jews and then they'd bring back the Jews when they needed money 1.00

00:42:51.420 or something like that. But, but so like, we'd love our cultural specialty to be, for example,

00:42:55.560 genetic technology, repro tech, artificial wombs, stuff like that.

00:42:58.820 Yeah. Because as society becomes more and more infertile, all cultural groups will need 1.00

00:43:04.660 that more and more.

00:43:05.860 They'll secretly slink over to us when they have their Henry VIII moment.

00:43:11.800 But yeah, I mean, what other thoughts would you have on this right here that you'd want to

00:43:16.580 make sure people understand about our organization?

00:43:18.680 Basically that, that one day you stumbled into a brothel and that led you to understand that

00:43:27.320 the future of the human race, that the future of anything you value depends on your ability

00:43:32.480 to love.

00:43:35.220 Well, so what she means by that, and this is also something we can talk about was in our

00:43:39.640 broader framework, which I think is really important to understand how we see the world.

00:43:44.780 When I was in Korea, something that kept shocking me is I'm like, this population will be 6% of

00:43:50.160 what it is today in a hundred years. Like, how are they going to deal with all of the empty

00:43:53.420 buildings? How are they going to deal with all of that? Are they going to import people? Are 1.00

00:43:56.060 they going to, it's like, well, they can't import people from Japan because they're also collapsing.

00:43:59.260 They can't import people from China because they're also collapsing. And less than a hundred

00:44:03.140 years ago, Japan went in, killed millions of people to try to push their culture because 1.00

00:44:08.900 historically that was the way you pushed your culture.

00:44:11.440 Through war, through conquest, et cetera.

00:44:13.040 Through conquest. And you can see Russia attempting something like this. Now, this isn't the only 0.78

00:44:17.280 reason that they're in this war right now, but the last time that they controlled Ukraine,

00:44:21.840 they did make everyone speak Russian. That is what they taught in the school system. They did

00:44:25.160 teach that you are actually Russians. Like Ukraine is a fictional concept. This is something Putin has

00:44:29.880 said, which is basically saying, I want to push our Russian culture on this actually very closely

00:44:35.920 aligned cultural group, which is an insane way to try to spread your culture when both Russia and 0.87

00:44:41.060 Ukraine have desperately low fertility rates. The groups that are going to win in the future are 1.00

00:44:45.940 not the groups that are best at war, which historically was a successful strategy. Actually,

00:44:52.540 many of the most successful groups right now are staunchly pacifist. Look at the Amish,

00:44:58.360 look at the Haridi, in Israel at least. Most pacifist groups, most very high fertility rates. 0.64

00:45:04.240 But to an extent, those groups only survive because they have pro war groups around them

00:45:10.240 to protect them. Yep, exactly.

00:45:12.300 And so that's not going to be a long-term successful strategy. But the point being that in this future

00:45:17.800 that we're going into, you really need to completely change the way you think about

00:45:21.840 geopolitics, the way you think about immigration. Even if you're thinking about your own independent

00:45:26.920 cultural group, you are typically better off for anything that increases the economy of whatever

00:45:33.780 countries you are most present in, and anything that decreases the amount of government control

00:45:40.420 those countries try to exercise over your country. Things like cultural projection through war and stuff

00:45:47.040 like that, they're really largely irrelevant now in terms of an intergenerational cultural victory.

00:45:53.160 And the groups that are still thinking in those mindsets, they're going to go extinct.

00:45:57.460 This reminds me, because a lot of people, when you talk about accelerationist versus non-accelerationist

00:46:01.660 cultures, cultures that try to move forwards, I mean, we saw this was the collapse of the Western

00:46:05.740 Roman Empire, right? Which was, as Rome collapsed, some people said, we want to go back to the old

00:46:14.040 ways of doing things. And some people said, well, we shouldn't be hedonistic. Like, obviously,

00:46:19.440 this sort of broad hedonistic culture that's dominating our urban centers is stupid. 1.00

00:46:23.160 But we do need to culturally innovate. That was the Christians. This was this new religion, 1.00

00:46:28.860 this new cultural group that was innovating in all these sorts of cool ways, that was defining

00:46:33.200 themselves, that was defining what they were, that was having councils, that were thinking about

00:46:38.200 cultural innovation. And then the mystery cults really exploded during this period. And these were

00:46:43.940 individuals who were going back to the more pagan ways of doing things. And actually, both the

00:46:49.860 Christian groups and these mystery cults were growing in the same communities, they were growing 0.99

00:46:53.600 among military organizations. And so they were both actually working with the same populations. But

00:46:58.480 the groups that said, we need to go back to the old ways of doing things, they died, because the

00:47:04.160 technological and cultural context that they were in had shifted. And I think that that's what we're

00:47:09.680 going to see in the future, is I think that the groups that are most interested in innovating

00:47:13.740 themselves to deal with this new cultural context that we're dealing with, are going to be the groups

00:47:18.400 that are ultimately victorious. And what we hope is that there's as much pluralism within those

00:47:23.600 communities as possible, and some sort of pluralistic alliance can form within those

00:47:27.260 communities. Yeah. And I think it's possible. I think today we have technology resources,

00:47:32.640 the ability to spark something that didn't exist in the past. So odds are looking good. There's lots

00:47:37.740 of hope. Yeah. And I can say that the one thing that our organization, we were like, oh, the

00:47:41.720 pro natalist, he wants to move out, getting fertility rates up. We're like, that is so done.

00:47:44.760 It's not going to happen. No one's getting broad fertility rates up. And the problem isn't solved 0.54

00:47:49.900 by doing that. I solve nothing by convincing somebody from an iteration of progressive culture

00:47:56.480 that doesn't want to have kids to have kids. I have solved nothing. Where I have solved something 0.73

00:48:00.840 is if there's some weird iteration of progressive culture that for whatever reason is resistant to

00:48:05.640 most of the viral forces and does believe in having kids and does believe in self-denial rituals and

00:48:10.560 does believe in sort of many things that would lead themselves to be natural cultural allies with us,

00:48:15.820 they would make a useful ally. But the people who are just completely brainwashed, they're

00:48:19.680 completely useless to me. But I think that that's a message that people aren't used to hearing is 0.94

00:48:23.340 to say, you just don't matter to us. They're like, well, don't you? How do you convince this

00:48:28.140 progressive woman to have a lot of, I don't care. If she's already from this cultural group that 1.00

00:48:34.180 sees their entire reason detra as surviving through parasitizing nearby healthy cultural groups, 0.57

00:48:40.560 I, again, we're not like judging them. Like we're not judging them in the context of

00:48:45.840 that's a worse way of doing things, but it's an unsustainable way of doing things that makes all

00:48:51.600 of the cultural groups around them worse intergenerational. Yeah. Yeah. You're actually

00:48:56.560 quite right in that they really do kind of poison the other groups around them in a way that's really

00:49:00.880 messed up. When I say worse, I don't mean like worse in an objective sense. I mean more dangerous to

00:49:06.540 my group and more dangerous to a pluralistic mindset because they teach all of the cultural

00:49:11.660 groups around them that pluralism is threatening essentially, that accepting of outsiders is

00:49:17.060 threatening. And that's why they are like the ultimate dangerous force from our world perspective.

00:49:23.500 But it's also why we don't have really any animosity towards any cultural group, even if they're very

00:49:30.040 different from us, even if they're like, well, we don't like LGBT populations. We don't like women. 1.00

00:49:34.500 Those are things we believe in, but even groups that don't feel that way, we're like, do what works

00:49:39.880 for you so long as your culture is thriving and you are not using force to force people into your

00:49:46.560 culture, because that's where it gets really dangerous. And that's something we're really

00:49:48.680 against or using force to keep people in your culture. That's another thing that we're quite

00:49:52.900 against. So if we could live in a society where everybody's just completing on an equal playing field,

00:49:57.780 the government isn't trying to use its powers to take money from one cultural group and then use that

00:50:02.600 money to convert people to this sort of dominant monoculture, but also nobody is with guns forcing

00:50:07.280 people to convert or threatening people to convert or threatening to stay in their culture. I think

00:50:11.220 that's the ideal cultural ecosystem that we're trying to create because we believe that our culture can

00:50:16.820 survive within that ecosystem and thrive within that ecosystem. And we would encourage every culture

00:50:22.160 that thinks that they can thrive within an equal playing field, that they should want to join this

00:50:26.480 movement. I'd be delighted if they did. So we'll see. We'll see how well we're able to evangelize

00:50:33.200 all this, get other people on board, get some good competition going. But it's an interesting

00:50:38.520 philosophy. We'll see. And I do think one person was like, oh, you don't believe in state services.

00:50:43.420 I think that we should rely on our cultural groups to provide much of our services, right?

00:50:47.360 So the reason why progressive groups so ardently advocate for state services is because if you want to

00:50:53.200 convince somebody to leave one of these harder older cultures, most of these cultures offer a lot of

00:50:58.020 what are state services. They offer social safety nets when you end on hard times. They offer services

00:51:03.760 that help care for elderly individuals. They offer all sorts of services. And so if you want somebody

00:51:09.760 to leave one of those cultural groups, but your group is parasitic and it's not willing to supply any of 0.88

00:51:14.200 these services itself, well, I mean, obviously you need the state to supply those services. So what you do is

00:51:20.840 you take money from all cultural groups so that you can more easily deconvert people from the 0.68

00:51:24.880 cultural groups that are supplying these services to people, which is just really predatory and 0.96

00:51:30.200 twisted. And so I think that, I guess my view of state services would be, it should be an opt-in thing.

00:51:35.440 You should be able to opt into the state service system, or you should be able to like the Amish do 1.00

00:51:39.780 with social security. Amish don't pay social security because the state understands that their culture is 0.91

00:51:45.780 actually very effective at supplying social security to Amish individuals.

00:51:48.800 I'd love to be able to opt into that. And then people are like, yeah, but then all of these

00:51:53.220 systems wouldn't work. And it's like, have you noticed something there? Is it that the cultural

00:51:59.860 groups of this sort of degraded cultural group that you've created that doesn't actually care for its

00:52:05.320 own members? Is that a problem? Nobody would want to join it. If they had to, everyone would start

00:52:10.500 going back to these older cultural groups that do provide all these services. If you took them away from

00:52:15.340 the state, it's like, ah, maybe light bulb there. You've realized what it means to be parasitic.

00:52:21.280 But anyway, we are so excited that you guys joined us. Hopefully we got crazy here,

00:52:26.620 but it's something we really did need to talk about at some point.

00:52:30.480 Yeah. Here's hoping it turns out well. Save a copy of this video. Wait, 200 years and have you're

00:52:37.520 either totally non-existent because you failed or existent great grandchildren. Check it out and

00:52:44.800 tell us if we were right or not. I mean, I think it's an existential quest to create a pluralistic

00:52:51.560 alliance of conservative cultures that can fight both this sterilizing mind virus, but also fight the

00:52:59.560 cultures that are just progressives waiting in the wings to erase every culture they come across the

00:53:04.320 moment they gain power. And I do think that now we're in this position, very Emperor of Dune,

00:53:11.220 where all of the conservative cultures finally have a reason to band together. So the plot of

00:53:16.440 Emperor of Dune is this guy basically says, how do I get these groups that have always been at each

00:53:21.240 other's throats? Well, I need to create an authoritarian force so evil that they'll finally 0.87

00:53:26.160 have a reason to build structures to work together. And they'll remember how bad it is to have one

00:53:31.120 culture sort of ruling all other cultures dictatorially. I hope that this progressive

00:53:35.940 mind virus has created that so that iterations of all of the conservative traditions can understand

00:53:42.240 why they're better off in pluralistic ecosystems and why they're better off building cultural

00:53:46.840 infrastructure that helps defend those pluralistic ecosystems. Because right now, if we don't band

00:53:52.920 together, we all lose. Big stakes. Good luck. I love you, Malcolm. Hopefully we all have a lot

00:53:59.700 of successful grandkids and they with a bunch of other families save the world. Hey, we need people

00:54:07.060 for our kids to marry, right? That's what we got to bring this group together. Yeah, that's the real

00:54:11.520 long con here. So guys, hurry up because our kids need to not be single forever. All right. Thanks.

00:54:16.980 Okay. Thanks. Bye. Yeah. Cool. Love you, Malcolm. Speaking of which, daycare pickup time. You're

00:54:22.660 doing leftovers, right? I'm stir-frying. Yeah, you made great. She did tacos yesterday. They were

00:54:27.380 fantastic. She did it for a guest. She was telling me today that she was diluting the meat with onions 1.00

00:54:32.660 to make it last a bit longer. Gotta stretch it. Yeah, I gotta stretch it. I'm making taco leftovers,

00:54:38.700 getting a little glimpse into our life here. Yum. Okay. Mix it with some curry spices, create something

00:54:43.540 really special with it. Then eat it with chips. It'll be quite good. Cool. I'll get it ready

00:54:47.520 for you while you pick up the kids. Will do. Have a good one. You too, Malcolm.

Based Camp - July 15, 2023

Based Camp： Population Collapse and The Pronatalist Foundations Real Goals

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