Based Camp - Based Camp： The Logistics of Consensual Non-Consent Orgies

00:00:00.000 we are so excited for our guest today ayla because we have such a beast with the existing

00:00:09.100 academic and research system and for us you are this shining light of a genuine alternative

00:00:16.720 to the system another thing we've talked about on the podcast is how we rate genuine intelligence

00:00:22.340 from our cultural perspective and the idea that you are out there doing research not for

00:00:29.040 remuneration you didn't get into it for anything like that you just did it because you loved it

00:00:33.660 and it was really cool to see but for people who don't know ayla she is probably the most advanced

00:00:40.220 sexuality researcher in the world as people who wrote a best-selling book on sexuality i'm saying

00:00:44.480 that and she is somebody who really does a lot of pretty groundbreaking research into the way humans

00:00:51.360 think the first question for this one is so there's this perception of society of these secretive groups

00:00:58.540 of like elite people who host sex parties where nefarious things happen yeah i'll set the scene

00:01:06.480 because it always shows up in my gossipy girly shows where one of the protagonists ends up at

00:01:12.000 this mansion where everyone is wearing masks and black and you know they they walk in and there's

00:01:18.280 candles everywhere and it seems super evil and they're handed a glass of champagne and then just

00:01:22.180 like people are like they're just gonna start it's just suggested that like a bunch of people

00:01:26.160 are gonna either start having sex or are having sex or end up getting murdered or something yeah

00:01:32.100 and there's this famous twitter thread if you about a consensual non-consent party you're having

00:01:36.240 the words like had a torture buffet and if anyone in the world understands the logistics of actually

00:01:43.300 putting one of these together what that's like what you're thinking about when you're doing it what

00:01:47.940 you have to make sure doesn't go wrong i am just so fascinated to hear about this

00:01:53.220 would you like to know more thanks guys all were great great to be here i'm so happy to be on your

00:02:01.160 podcast but yeah to be clear the torture parties are a separate thing from the non-con parties yes

00:02:07.960 cnc i'm gonna call it cnc perfect i do have them there's no sex going on at the torture parties

00:02:14.040 it's just like another logistical thing to throw into the mix and oh yeah the cnc parties are

00:02:19.700 basically you come in and you wear like wristbands that indicate what you're open to having happen

00:02:24.320 and then you offer them certain like bounds of accepted norms so there's like a list of things that

00:02:29.720 you can do to somebody if they have the wristband on and then if the person wants to make exceptions

00:02:33.640 they wear like a badge and you have to read that badge before you engage with them stuff like that

00:02:37.960 so wait wait wait hold on this is sounding very similar to me to whitewater rafting like in my in

00:02:45.140 my teenage years i did a lot of whitewater rafting my dad and my sister were river guides and before

00:02:50.120 going rafting you had to like stop everyone and have a safety talk about how the life jackets worked

00:02:55.940 what would happen if your boat wrapped wrapped around a rock how to paddle correctly like do you have

00:03:02.120 a safety talk before these begin yeah we have we have to arrive mandatorily on time before

00:03:07.820 the door is closed because it's required that everybody is there for the opening circle

00:03:11.400 and the opening circle we go over the rules again in your invite when you come to the event you have

00:03:16.860 to read the rules and then when you enter the door you sign a waiver that explains again what you're

00:03:22.320 getting into and that you understand and are agreeing to this and then we sit you down and we explain it

00:03:26.920 all again just to make really sure that you understand what's happening and then we go through the list of

00:03:33.080 things you can do can't do like the the orientations to the space we explain like how to use some of

00:03:38.380 like the toys and the tools the norms again we do exercises where you have to and it's like it's like

00:03:44.120 dumb i hate exercises at the beginning of things but like i think it's good still and we just want to be

00:03:49.600 really over the top so we have people pair off and the name of the party is red means no so basically

00:03:55.820 the thing is you get to say no and have people ignore that but we replace the word no with the word red

00:04:00.680 so so you just practice saying no and having that ignored and being able to ignore another people

00:04:06.940 and then you practice saying the word red and having people instantly respect that i just basically

00:04:11.480 like retrain intuitively what that's like so you like you touch somebody and then you say don't do

00:04:15.860 that no you could like experiment different ways like no and then you say red and they have to

00:04:19.140 immediately respect it so you don't do like actual like structured practice make sure that everybody

00:04:23.480 like understands what they're getting into what i love about this is it is so different

00:04:30.580 than what is pictured in like as to what these parties are it's like a bunch of safety seminars

00:04:37.600 now we've got to act it out to make sure we don't go too far but it makes a lot of sense how do you

00:04:44.080 think about when you're thinking who to invite to these how do you vet them because you know if

00:04:48.620 you're if you're bringing so i guess you have to ask for recommendations or yeah we've it's it's

00:04:54.180 still like relatively new we're throwing in maybe like one or two a year so far so pretty slow but we

00:04:58.900 started out with like networking referrals because like a really big thing is i don't want to

00:05:02.320 accidentally introduce bad incentives into this this game design right so you don't want people

00:05:07.560 who are like suppressing the thing that they actually want in order to try to be liked or

00:05:11.400 accepted or to participate like it's a big thing at the beginning we say we you came here because you

00:05:16.640 wanted this but if you decide to hear that this is not what you want to do we want you to just not

00:05:21.640 do it like it's okay to just sit and watch like we please do not pressure yourself to do it

00:05:26.840 but there's still like a lot of social pressure sometimes even if you're trying really hard to

00:05:30.680 make sure this doesn't happen like say you go this is your first time and you're really excited then

00:05:35.260 you get there and you realize wait a second i don't actually want to do this but you don't want to

00:05:38.020 disappoint the host because you know the host thinks you're really cool and so you like kind of like

00:05:42.300 force yourself to deal with something that you didn't want to actually so in attempting to avoid this

00:05:47.760 we mostly try to invite people who have independently expressed interest in like cnc without trying to get to

00:05:55.240 this party so we so we ask for referrals for people who know somebody who has established

00:06:00.420 already experience or or like clear this is what i wanted beforehand so we try to separate those

00:06:06.280 incentives a little bit as much as possible once we talk a lot of a lot on our podcast is sort of

00:06:11.180 status hierarchies and how they can emergently form do you notice any sort of like emergent status

00:06:16.640 hierarchy forming within these is it based on like how dominant someone is sexually or is it based on

00:06:21.380 something else so okay so so this is a little bit interesting because in a typical orgy you have

00:06:29.000 like women who are doing refusals but in this kind of orgy in general you mostly don't have women

00:06:34.060 doing refusals oh because it's just it's just a free-for-all right like and so what's interesting

00:06:40.940 is that like if you remove like female choice from a sexual dynamic like what happens and so you

00:06:47.480 have like it's a little bit i hadn't thought about it because like if you're not getting

00:06:52.780 fucked by anybody it's because all like they're all busy fucking the other women yes so it's an

00:06:59.300 interesting like distribution thing and it's like it can be a little bit difficult so what's i want to

00:07:06.100 know so at an orgy versus a cnc party is there a different male to female ratio that is ideal

00:07:12.000 right at a typical orgy you want two women per one man okay generally speaking because of the

00:07:18.160 higher rate of refusals yeah and like women are more likely to be bisexual and like oh sort of you

00:07:25.520 you want like enough women to like pad out that like at least one woman is going to be down yeah

00:07:29.700 but it's the reverse for cnc orgies you want two men to one woman wow oh that is fascinating okay

00:07:36.280 so here's the question the the people who the men are choosing in these totally unrestricted

00:07:41.340 environments because they're choosing whoever they want is it different than who people might

00:07:45.760 expect like does it change within the different environments who the men are targeting is it the

00:07:50.800 most generally attractive people is it the highest status people in society is it people who they knew

00:07:55.740 like what's often determining this it's it's hard again it's a kind of slow sample and it's hard to

00:08:02.600 tell because there's other factors at play but my general sense is yeah corresponds to like how

00:08:06.840 generally attractive people are like there's one girl who comes to these who i think is i've heard

00:08:13.120 from men as like oh this is like the hottest girl and she just gets like slaughtered each time it's

00:08:18.060 like a lie like way more men want to have sex with her than with me and i'm like okay

00:08:23.640 okay noted noted yeah so you definitely kind of like become really face to face with like your

00:08:31.220 ranking in a sense which is nice to have lots of men because if you just have a surplus of men

00:08:35.320 fucking you all the time then you don't have to do the thing where you're sitting on the sidelines

00:08:39.140 kind of feeling disliked or something yeah i feel like this is kind of like the worst nightmare of

00:08:44.820 being picked last for softball or something like challenge of like nobody wants to be raped

00:08:51.400 that is just not as interesting well actually this is this because i'm thinking like what are you

00:09:00.580 trying to simulate here like like historically like what would have and it would have been like

00:09:05.440 a village raid or something like that and now i'm actually thinking about the psychological distress

00:09:10.360 of the one woman in the village who wasn't raped during the raid

00:09:13.240 oh my god yeah and to be fair there are other factors right like some people have things on

00:09:24.160 their badges like some people have a certain preferences so it's not a perfect one-on-one

00:09:29.640 like definitely like the first time i think i'm like not that ugly but like the first orgy

00:09:34.660 basically nobody fucked me and i was like but isn't it could it be because of your status they're

00:09:40.860 like well i don't want to embarrass myself in front of senpai yeah like it would be i'd be so nervous

00:09:46.120 you know like how did you adapt to that i mean it's okay like i think i think two people had sex

00:09:52.160 with me something like that and i was a little disappointed but this is also a problem of it's

00:09:57.080 it's not just that like men are going for the hottest women first or whatever there's like a thing

00:10:01.740 or make it really tired like if you're doing what if you're role-playing some sort of struggle

00:10:06.340 scenario which is really fun yeah and if you're a guy just like to do this like a bunch of women

00:10:11.560 is it's a lot nicer in fantasy than it is in reality you should like only have it during like

00:10:16.540 the summer season or something so you get like your beach body but also your cnc party body you

00:10:20.380 gotta like train for it you know there's also people are weirdly bad at bondage so like the first

00:10:28.060 orgy we prefer like oh we'll give some ropes or whatever because you know you want to make it

00:10:31.880 easier yeah people if you're simulating like if you're doing the role play where like you actually

00:10:36.360 are trying not to be fucked it's just exhausting to try to actually like get somebody down and you

00:10:41.660 need to like coordination from other men but like for example our first orgy we didn't have that many

00:10:45.640 men because we were trying to go by normal orgy rules yeah so like it was just like guys were

00:10:50.380 getting tired out left and right nobody could tie anybody up uh i'm just picturing like all these

00:10:56.160 people just looking winded like sitting around in this like very sexy looking scenario but everyone's

00:11:00.500 just like just just all these exhausted men just like used up by the succubuses but i mean actually

00:11:07.340 this is really interesting because you never really think about when you need to learn how to like

00:11:10.660 quickly hogtie someone no one's practicing this and now i'm like if this catches on that there are

00:11:16.080 going to be some bay area like seminars for like okay really quickly how to handle this well we did

00:11:21.800 update so the next orgy we switched to like velcro handcuffs for example which we like then pre-latched

00:11:27.680 onto various points in the room and then then it became much easier because it's also safer like

00:11:33.120 like bondage is good you have to be careful to make sure you're doing the correct ties to not

00:11:36.540 access and restrict blood flow right so it's better in like a frantic chaotic orgy environment

00:11:41.120 just like have we'll just velcro and we have like uh stocks like uh we got like mobile devices

00:11:47.480 you can like clamp around somebody's anyway it's easier now clamp around things skill at these

00:11:54.440 various tasks determine their position was any sort of local hierarchy was in this group or is it

00:11:59.800 largely irrelevant it's been hard for me to determine hierarchy among males because i'm usually pretty

00:12:05.960 distracted but like talking to men about it i get the impression that there's a lot more camaraderie

00:12:13.640 um because there's no mate guarding i think if we which is one thing i'm really curious about one

00:12:18.900 orgy i'm really interested in throwing is one that like tries to actually simulate mate guarding more

00:12:23.600 where it's like you gain a point for every woman you fuck and then you lose a point if a man fucks a

00:12:28.420 woman that you have fucked before just to see like if that actually creates a male dominance hierarchy

00:12:33.460 based on the males that are like more efficiently able to control females just to see if we can

00:12:38.500 replicate a primal environment you know i like that but that's even more exhausting for the guys no

00:12:43.460 i'm just like thinking about this and i'm like if i were a guy i'm not excited this is too much

00:12:47.880 genuinely about going to one like if i was going to go to one of these my core thing would be like

00:12:52.720 how do i not look like a fool and when you're asking how do you not look like a fool what you're

00:12:57.180 really asking yourself is how do i ensure i don't look like i'm at the bottom of the local dominance

00:13:01.420 hierarchy and so i think guys at these events are probably actually really sensitive to how their

00:13:07.160 actions are perceived by the group writ large and i think a lot of male sexual activity

00:13:12.440 is as driven as much by how it reflects on their self-image as it is by any sort of primal desire

00:13:19.200 which probably really you talk about the level of work that's going into this i find that just

00:13:23.800 really fascinating well but i think what's more interesting ayla is what you're talking about

00:13:26.860 with male camaraderie like i'm always like i'm thinking back to like the raid scenario in which

00:13:31.120 like oh is this kind of how like guys like bonded in the past like guys night out like we're gonna rape

00:13:36.260 pillage a village and this is like oh we feel so much closer now i don't know like did you do you

00:13:42.520 feel more of a sense of bonding or competition or is it both like they're in oh yeah yeah and the women

00:13:48.340 in the group do you notice competition or like you feel like less camaraderie i haven't noticed any

00:13:53.140 competition with the women generally because there's not really much opportunity to interact at all as

00:13:57.880 some of the women we do have a few lady doms but i haven't but that's like not enough to really

00:14:03.060 notice trends but generally generally you're just like you know my experience has been i don't know

00:14:09.340 what the fuck is going on there's just like penises everywhere which is really nice i really like that

00:14:13.120 but with with the men there's a lot of camaraderie so like we have so there's rules about like

00:14:17.320 engagement right so for example if you're a man and you're like having sex with a woman like

00:14:22.320 how should it work what should the norms be if another man wants to come on and like stick his penis

00:14:26.920 into the woman's face right like like what if the guy who's like doing the fucking like really isn't

00:14:32.380 interested in a threesome like that's like a boundary for him he just doesn't want like another

00:14:36.100 man in his sexual space right so you have to think about norms for this and right now our norm is like

00:14:40.800 you ask like hey do you need a hand and if you're i like that like banging someone or like trying to

00:14:45.760 wrestle a woman down then you can say yeah i do need a hand and then now you've got both guys

00:14:49.780 you know taking that lady together it's very nice very sweet that's that does feel like camaraderie

00:14:54.740 yeah um what what do the various wrist like so the physical things that people are wearing like

00:15:01.440 wristbands what will they aside from like i'm in i'm okay with dudes i'm okay with women like what

00:15:06.520 else do they signify so far we're keeping it really simple because we're trying to do something where

00:15:11.940 you don't have to like stop we don't we want to reduce room for mistakes we want to make it so that

00:15:15.540 if you're in the pit of bodies you don't like forget that one color means one thing so historically

00:15:21.380 we're just like what gender are you open to although this next round we're going to be

00:15:25.920 trying so i want to see if we can expand this orgy into sort of a free use thing because some people

00:15:31.240 aren't super interested in a resisting experience they want to just like be taken and then just have

00:15:36.980 normal sex with whoever just initiates so i want to see if we can expand it to include both so we're

00:15:42.480 going to have wristbands that indicate like do you expect to give resistance or not that way like men

00:15:46.760 can pick if they want to go for somebody where there's going to be a struggle or just somebody who

00:15:50.780 anticipates of course it's not required like you might change your mind in the middle of it

00:15:54.920 that's really i think that's that's a good thing to do because if i went to one of these parties and

00:15:59.340 somebody didn't resist i'd be very disappointed so more easily sort for for right yeah i guess

00:16:06.100 maybe you're exhausted at the end of the night maybe you're not yeah and then our glow sticks

00:16:11.400 this is another problem so we had colored wristbands but it turns out like the lights are low for mood

00:16:17.480 lighting we have like colored lights and it made it actually and they were they're like paper like

00:16:21.900 standard wristbands that you get and they're kind of like getting like crushed and turned over and it

00:16:26.120 was a little dark so it wasn't easy to tell immediately and so we were going to switch to

00:16:30.880 a glow stick system where we could get so it's really obvious i like that i also love the idea that

00:16:38.280 women you know if you do this like the i'm going to resist i'm going to not resist the value of each

00:16:43.880 category of woman changes dynamically throughout the night with the non-resisting women becoming

00:16:49.420 higher value the longer the night goes on and the more exhausted the men become and i think that you'll

00:16:55.520 see the women who are being left out change throughout the course of that is interesting okay wait so

00:17:00.560 optimal temperature what is pretty cool you want a little bit we have a lot of blankets set out and

00:17:06.720 pillows and then you want a little bit cold just because it gets sweaty music or no music

00:17:12.140 we historically have had music in the background which is a funny choice because you're like which

00:17:17.020 music should i yeah why should i set yeah what's what's the playlist for that instrumental or vocal

00:17:23.680 instrumental i'm assuming we usually do kind of like jivey background stuff okay do people start

00:17:30.180 out clothed or not start out clothed oh yeah because that's kind of part of the fun not show up in

00:17:36.740 things that you don't want to get destroyed you know in the movies when people are going to these they

00:17:41.220 always have like black robes and are like inconspicuous in reality is it like normal

00:17:46.080 street wear or is it do you dress up we do the last one we try to theme a little bit like you can

00:17:52.680 show up in like in a costume like elude and the theme was funnily like a dark ritual theme so like

00:17:57.780 oh fun okay so we're getting a little bit of the stereotype is true i think a lot of people

00:18:01.880 oh thank god the next one is mad science so it's like mad science yeah oh my god lab coat and nothing

00:18:09.780 beneath hello this is gonna be so oh my god so here's so so i want to go into the torture parties

00:18:16.120 now yeah we can't we can't touch it yeah torture buffet yeah what's going on yeah torture buffet is

00:18:22.480 super fun it historically had great party ratings it's it's not sexual it's not as scandalous as it

00:18:28.480 sounds basically it's a party and when you come you have to bring torture to share and it's basically

00:18:33.240 any sort of uncomfortable experience it can be like something that smells really bad or like maybe

00:18:37.860 you know like hand claws or like some people do electrocution one person did like you kneel on

00:18:42.600 grits because it's really painful i offer to slap people um one person's like one torture uh was

00:18:50.500 somebody who like put clips on you as they whisper into your ear accounts of uh incentive alignment

00:18:56.620 that went poorly like in economics oh like where like historically governments have been like

00:19:02.200 policies that backfired that's good is there a drinking at these parties that one yeah the torture

00:19:10.720 i mean it's not like a lot of drinking it's just like you get cocktails or whatever yeah and that

00:19:14.740 was nice because you get to experience like a smorgasbord of interesting unpleasant sensations and

00:19:19.020 it's really bonding for the people you're doing it with because like you're both together like all

00:19:22.500 right we're gonna try and experience like being uncomfortable for a second and like one person

00:19:26.660 guides the other person through the experience it's really delightful one of my favorite ayla moments

00:19:32.040 was when you were on twitter asking people how to properly waterboard someone safe you're like

00:19:38.460 does anyone have experience with this i'd really like to bring this to the next torture buffet

00:19:42.280 what's an interesting dynamic you don't think about that you actually have to go out you know if

00:19:49.800 you're trying a torture you have to know how to do it safely so you have to go out there and read

00:19:54.860 torture literature yeah yeah we haven't actually had too many dangerous tortures recently but like

00:20:03.540 for example electrocution you want to make sure you only electrocute like the waster downwards just

00:20:07.640 you know stuff basic stuff like that oh but in general the tortures are pretty like mild or fun

00:20:12.840 like somebody brought little legos to walk on you know like oh that's good that's good

00:20:18.660 classic parent torture oh my gosh another what thing that i've been thinking about from this

00:20:24.680 conversation is the types of sex parties that i hear about from older movies from like our parents

00:20:31.600 generation oh i wonder if they were moral panics or if they ever actually happened like key parties

00:20:38.400 right where like you would go to a party and everyone would put their keys in a bowl and you'd pick

00:20:42.120 out a key and then you'd be sleeping with whoever's key you randomly picked out or something

00:20:46.920 or or lock parties any of these weirder party designs have you heard of these really happening

00:20:52.940 or are they just fantasies i wouldn't be surprised if they do actually happen so one gay communities

00:20:58.240 a lot more stuff happens there they are way more experimental i can easily see it happening in a gay

00:21:02.600 community and then like legends percolate but two like i think like for example this is an example

00:21:07.480 that i am throwing these weird parties this would probably consider similar degree to a key party where

00:21:12.380 you're like having sex with someone you didn't choose but even before i did this when i was doing

00:21:16.600 this i'm like trying really hard is anybody else doing this at all i was really searching nobody else

00:21:22.300 was but there used to be one that was thrown in the bay area called hostage parties and they had it was

00:21:27.380 like a slightly different setup but they had basically like they're hostages and you have to go and like

00:21:31.760 get information from the people who are tied up and it's like a game like who's gonna break first who

00:21:37.540 truly has the information who doesn't and those seem really fun but they i guess the guy who ran

00:21:42.140 it died of covid and so it just stopped like during covid basically oh my gosh i can think of a weird

00:21:48.220 interesting party that happened at my college which was along the lines it was called the anything for

00:21:51.960 money party it was held by the business society started with a certain amount of tokens which counted

00:21:57.620 as money and you would try to end up with the most tokens at the end of the night through a

00:22:02.560 negotiation or you know trading things that you had and the people who won got like a car

00:22:07.860 and like a large screen tv back when a large screen tv was worth a lot of money and so of course it just

00:22:13.300 turned into exchanging tokens for sex party the fastest way to try to get the car you know

00:22:20.680 that's great yeah so like what like the hottest people like they're the most entrepreneurial like

00:22:26.920 that would actually be very interesting for one of your parties as well a token exchange party

00:22:31.360 where but i don't know like it just seems like a lot of work i don't i don't know all these all

00:22:38.140 these seem like a lot of work like if you can't exchange the tokens for a thing at the end like

00:22:43.840 would it technically run afoul of prostitution law oh yeah that's a good point or there's other

00:22:50.880 interesting things you could do which is have the prizes still be determinate on chance but your

00:22:57.220 your odds increase the more tokens you have at the end of the night so it's like a sortition system

00:23:03.340 where each of the tokens counts as an individual like slip of paper with your name on it so if you

00:23:08.060 had six tokens six slips of paper with your name on it go into the bowl um and then at the end of

00:23:11.860 the night somebody takes one slip of paper from the bowl and so it still allows anyone to potentially

00:23:16.160 win so you never feel like you're counted out because i think if you did it without this system

00:23:20.260 people would feel like okay i'm definitely not going to have any chance of winning this so i'm just not

00:23:24.560 really going to play for that type of game but this way everyone would still always be

00:23:28.920 incrementally motivated what i'm taking away from this is basically some of the fantasy is real which

00:23:35.000 i think is wonderful and that like there are sometimes dark robes and like people dressing up

00:23:39.760 a little bit but what everyone's missing is the planning the consideration the careful invites the

00:23:46.660 vetting the safety talk the you know like the wrist yeah and i just i also just love that like

00:23:53.120 the name of the the most recent cnc party you threw was red means no it's like throwing a skydiving

00:23:59.260 party which is like pull pull cord for parachute party the one thing you really need to not forget

00:24:06.380 we're calling it that it's great but i i also like and i hope that this you know seo wise serves as

00:24:12.860 this that this is the person people need to come to when they are writing shows where a sex party

00:24:19.520 takes place because i think that these need to be much more accurate in my team dramas and

00:24:24.720 it's true a great consultant normal sex party is a lot easier there's a way more logistics that go

00:24:29.800 into a cnc event uh it's like taking drugs like i don't know if you if how how the audience is

00:24:36.740 familiar but like if you're doing psychedelics you just want to set everything up beforehand

00:24:39.720 because you there's like choices revoked during the trip right your judgment is off you can't like

00:24:45.000 if somebody comes to the door you can't like make a decision then you have to make sort of everything

00:24:48.880 for you where the rest of it just falls through it's very much like that whereas normally normal

00:24:54.380 sex parties you can like reevaluate what's going on in the middle of it you don't have to accept

00:24:59.060 the norms for the entire party you're operating here at pro level i think you may be forgetting just

00:25:03.780 how even for a normal sex party how much you're also doing insane levels of vetting and planning i mean

00:25:09.460 because you still have to consider are people coming in with good faith are they going to respect

00:25:12.960 boundaries like are they are they even mentally really ready to be in in a group sex environment

00:25:20.860 even if they may act like they want to i think you're already super considerate about that now

00:25:25.820 you can take it to the level of cnc but like if other people were doing this she would know and she

00:25:31.200 said you know you did the research you did the homework you had a hard time finding anyone doing

00:25:35.580 else anything like interesting like this because it takes so much work it's a ton of work

00:25:40.400 well i also think it's like really controversial for the current environment like even i i caught

00:25:46.180 wind a little bit of like some of the kink communities were talking negatively about the party we're

00:25:50.980 throwing now like the impression i've gotten is that like the kink parties have like a hierarchy

00:25:54.800 of like kink experience like you have to be established in the kink community to be able to

00:25:59.380 be like granted the social authority to be able to throw any sort of like high risk party at all

00:26:04.800 and so the fact that i'm a complete outsider when it comes to like i'm not involved in kink scene

00:26:08.940 whatsoever i'm just not really interested and so so i think i'm like subject to a higher level of

00:26:13.800 criticism it makes a lot of sense whenever i've engaged with the kink scene my my perception of

00:26:18.060 it has been that it is just like it i just associate it with bureaucracy whenever i'm around

00:26:23.400 it i'm like oh it's it's bureaucracy day no it reminds me a lot of six sigma corporate people

00:26:28.280 who are like i'm level like this they're like what courses have you taken i've just spent a lot

00:26:32.840 of time building this special rig like it's a lot about gear and it's a lot about rules and it more

00:26:37.100 reminds me of like gotta get the gear from fortlandia or like dnd teams spending like five

00:26:43.200 hours like making out their character sheets instead of necessarily engaging in the pursuit

00:26:49.160 that is the subject but what i i think is really indicative here is that culturally the way that

00:26:55.200 you're putting this together i bet is a very different experience than if it was put together by the

00:26:59.100 traditional kink community yes this is this is my guess my guess is that there's like a greater

00:27:05.760 social fear or something of doing cnc stuff because cnc stuff is like increasingly taboo

00:27:12.680 um because like consent is such a big people harp on consent which to be clear i'm also big on consent

00:27:19.180 like we also harp on this like it's because the consent rules are not changed whatsoever it's just

00:27:24.160 the word changes that's it and you get to like role play it uh there's no actual assault going

00:27:29.660 on yeah it's a cnc party not an nc party period yeah it's very much conceptual but i think that like

00:27:35.480 even the fact i think like even role playing is a little bit too taboo for a lot of these people

00:27:39.920 um maybe like just really they're afraid of like normalizing it you know like oh like we can't like

00:27:45.300 talk about it positively without a lot of judgment and i don't think this is everybody obviously but

00:27:49.120 my guess is it's like some sort of cultural flavor here is like infiltrating the general vibes that's

00:27:55.300 really rough considering the number of women especially who are like actively aroused by

00:28:02.040 non-consent period like and also like real non-consent because we looked at that in our

00:28:07.960 survey real high like i should clarify for the audience this is not like a like a weird fetish thing

00:28:13.640 this is like 30 40 percent of the population or something like i can't remember from our data but

00:28:17.720 it's not like a oh oh you're a weirdo it's it's probably yeah yeah for our book the pragmatist

00:28:24.200 guide to sexuality when malcolm did his survey on positively he he had a question of like how much

00:28:30.280 does the concept of rape play arouse you but then right below how does the concept of actual rape

00:28:35.920 arouse you to like make no ambiguity like this is really obvious we're talking about the real thing

00:28:40.340 and a huge number of people were like yeah yeah actual actual rape like super hot yeah

00:28:44.380 aila thank you very much for satisfying my immense curiosity on this because i watch so many smutty

00:28:50.180 girly shows where this is depicted i just want to know the real story where should people follow you

00:28:55.620 go if they would like to learn more about your research and your work yeah my twitter is aila

00:29:00.960 underscore girl a-e-l-l-a underscore girl and my general website which has links to all the things

00:29:06.160 is knowingless.com it's like k-n-o-w knowingless.com i also have a blog post on where i explain the

00:29:13.140 logistics of the cnc parties and at the end there is an application so we will link to that in the show

00:29:19.120 notes because that is a really good read i've read it i love it and i love talking about this too thank

00:29:24.680 thank you so much aila yeah my pleasure thank you

Based Camp - July 17, 2023

Based Camp： The Logistics of Consensual Non-Consent Orgies

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