Based Camp - Based Camp： Why Do So Many Self-Help Gurus Have Terrible Lives？

00:00:00.000 hello malcolm collins hello simone collins are we gonna try to use our names even though we're

00:00:06.100 married yes mr malcolm collins i don't know branding i don't like it maybe we'll just do

00:00:12.540 malcolm and simone going forwards but there are a lot of people out there on the internet who are

00:00:18.320 like life advice gurus and we definitely do not style ourselves as life advice gurus

00:00:27.040 that said a lot of these people seem to be giving very bad advice and as people who aren't life

00:00:37.380 advice gurus but who seem to have their lives together more than a lot of society these days

00:00:44.760 this is what always gets me about the life guru space but i also see this within the dating guru

00:00:50.300 space is that many of these people don't have successful relationships or they don't seem to

00:00:57.420 really have their lives together and i actually was talking to i remember a long time ago somebody in

00:01:02.820 the dating guru space and i was like why are you giving people like why is your job this was her

00:01:07.780 job giving people dating advice and i was like when you don't have a good relationship or even have a

00:01:14.360 partner right now and she goes i date more than any other dating coach i know and i'm like that does

00:01:19.780 seem true that does seem true but i don't know i i think and this could be a cultural perspective as

00:01:25.960 well that some cultures when they're trying to decide who to trust as a source of information

00:01:32.560 what they'll do is they'll look towards the crowd right they'll say who is the crowd looking to as a

00:01:41.220 source of information or they'll look to some sort of external certifying agency right so yeah this

00:01:49.480 people might have had 10 terrible marriages but they do have their phd in relationship counseling

00:01:55.500 whereas i think our cultural perspective places a huge amount of weight on what the individual

00:02:04.520 has been able to achieve within their own life and the belief that you can't really make it past that

00:02:10.480 point yeah so if you are getting advice from someone keep in mind that it will get you to exactly where

00:02:17.600 they are now so if you really like where someone is getting life advice for them is is pretty good but

00:02:23.520 just doing it because they are famous or they're telling you things that sound or feel good probably

00:02:28.900 not the best course of action to take and this can be a problem with it was in what we call the

00:02:34.340 the viral life coach sort of meme when we talk about memetic clusters it began to grow accidentally

00:02:40.740 i remember in the bay area i was adjacent to this community where it started was one life coach and

00:02:48.200 then everyone they were coaching ended up becoming life coaches no which makes perfect sense because what

00:02:53.700 like what is the life coach have figured out and how to do they figured out how to be a good life coach

00:02:58.400 so they're probably going to lead people in that general direction but if i don't think that's

00:03:03.740 what they went if you had been able to take them aside at the beginning and said is your goal was

00:03:08.440 this to become a life coach they might have said no this is the thing not all life coaches are like

00:03:13.080 this some life coaches are like specifically very good at preventing this and i think that there's a

00:03:17.780 way that you can sort for this look at their other clients who have worked with them for a while

00:03:21.920 did they end up becoming more successful or did they end up becoming less successful

00:03:25.860 there's something that's really interesting about this actually this might be too much of a tangent

00:03:29.140 but we were introduced at one point to a company that would take law firms and lawyers and actually

00:03:35.480 show you their outcomes vis-a-vis specific judges for example and in certain courts and what you

00:03:42.500 realize after looking at this data is that there's this profound disconnect in the legal industry at least

00:03:48.940 in the united states between like expensive law firms prestigious law firms famous lawyers and actually

00:03:55.720 good court records and you could see on the graphs like the track record of different lawyers against

00:04:01.780 certain judges in certain districts so if your case is likely to end up in front of this particular judge

00:04:07.340 often what you're doing is someone's oh yeah like this lawyer sees this judge like all the time they know

00:04:13.040 them really well like you're going to be in really good hands and then you look and you see there's all

00:04:16.760 these judges that like or sorry lawyers there are all these lawyers who see certain judges a ton but they're like

00:04:22.880 always lose they always lose and no one knows that going into it because unfortunately the system

00:04:28.160 isn't set up in a way where people are looking at outcomes instead they're looking at prestige they're

00:04:33.100 looking at signaling they're looking at how people choose to market themselves and i think this is not

00:04:37.020 just something that's a problem in the legal industry it's a problem around the i mean also look at

00:04:41.800 teaching like where are teachers going to get you they're going to get you where they are and that's why many

00:04:45.840 people when they're young want to be a teacher when they grow up of course

00:04:49.100 and i think that it's critical something to note was the lawyer example is this was a company i don't

00:04:54.860 even know if the company is still around but like this data was out there in public and not that many

00:05:00.200 people were using it the vast majority of people when choosing a lawyer were not looking at this data

00:05:06.780 that's out there about how frequently they won cases like theirs but we're looking at the prestige of

00:05:12.360 their firm or like marketing materials and what blew our minds too is that there seemed to be zero

00:05:16.900 correlation between what you paid for and what you got in terms of outcomes oh my god

00:05:22.660 but this is just a lawyer right this is just hundreds of thousands of dollars

00:05:26.660 there's young people who go out there and take advice from gurus just because they're like

00:05:32.340 famous within their ideological circles and they're like this guy is ideologically approved or

00:05:38.860 this girl is ideologically approved therefore their advice must be efficacious and it's important

00:05:45.000 to remember that just because someone is smart it doesn't mean that they have great so when a person

00:05:50.760 rises to fame within sort of life advice circles there's typically three reasons that's going to

00:05:57.000 happen okay one that person is telling people what one specific ideological group wants to hear

00:06:03.980 but they're telling it to them in a way that like sounds smarter or more sophisticated than they're used

00:06:08.620 to hearing it or edgier than they're used to hearing it or something it's what they all right

00:06:13.320 want to hear but with some sort of spin put on it some sort of flavor agent added the next is uh

00:06:20.760 people telling people that none of their problems are actually their fault and that they're all

00:06:26.180 actually everyone else's fault and they're actually should be totally happy doing nothing

00:06:30.760 basically this group is just trying to convince you to be happier with whatever you're doing right

00:06:34.600 now the first group typically is more oh your traditions are actually all right all of your

00:06:40.360 instincts on how to handle this are right and then another deviation of this second group are people

00:06:46.800 who will tell you okay actually you do have problems but you can solve it with wishy thinking

00:06:54.740 wishy thinking coaches are really big wishy thinking we i named this after they're the great skit on this

00:07:00.260 from the it crowd but it's basically it's actually a psychological trick which is really fascinating and

00:07:06.520 it's prevalent throughout history as like a scam the best modern example is the secret but there's

00:07:14.400 been lots of examples it basically pops back up every 20 years or so the secret was from my generation

00:07:19.140 there's been probably some new generation like as soon as i describe it you'll be like oh i know what

00:07:22.680 you're talking about so the way it works is this is the guru will tell you if you really wish for

00:07:29.860 something it will become more likely to become true and then they'll add there's some ways that

00:07:37.020 the formula is typically altered as well to make it work a bit better they'll say it works better if

00:07:44.380 you forgot that you were wishing for that thing so they'll say like first really wish for something

00:07:49.780 write it down then throw that thing away and forget that you wish for it as hard as you can or they'll do

00:07:57.480 some other things like like wish for thing and then perform some ritual around that like maybe

00:08:02.260 masturbation or something like that something they see as these gathering spirits or something but what

00:08:06.580 they're really doing here is they're building something for which you can build confirmation

00:08:09.960 bias around which is to say if things move a bit in the direction of that thing you'll be like ah yes

00:08:15.840 this was all correct the reason some iterations have evolved culturally this tendency of saying oh you need

00:08:22.160 to forget about it is because through forgetting about the thing it's harder to remember it if it

00:08:28.160 doesn't end up becoming true so you don't remember that it didn't work but then if it does end up

00:08:32.640 becoming true you will almost certainly remember that you tried to forget about it in this whole

00:08:36.160 ceremony that you pulled and so you're like oh something definitely happened there and so it's yeah

00:08:41.620 it's just a confirmation bias like more specifically it allows the guru to say oh you remembered it that's

00:08:47.660 that's why it didn't work but then if it works and you remembered it they say well you remembered it

00:08:53.580 because it worked and so there's always an excuse which is actually really clever do you have any

00:08:59.100 thoughts on was she thinking simone it is also known what as manifesting vision boards postulating

00:09:06.800 it's shown up in both like really woo woo circles but also i would say like more hard line like

00:09:13.020 preying on it too preying for something i think it shows up there so don't think that your cultural

00:09:20.140 group is immune to it somehow it is because the vast majority of public intellectuals who are

00:09:26.540 sort of gurus around life advice rise to fame for the three above reasons either they're promoting

00:09:32.340 wishy thinking they are telling people something that the person already wants to believe because it

00:09:37.340 aligns with their cultural predilections around how the world works or should work but they put some

00:09:41.720 sort of new flavor on it or they are telling people that their problems aren't their fault

00:09:46.240 is actually why disproportionately you see these public gurus living these terrible lives and and so

00:09:55.360 unable to make things work for themselves life advice that leads to fame and that sells is specifically

00:10:02.660 adversarial often to life advice which is beneficial to the individual uh it's just fascinating to us that

00:10:08.800 this doesn't disconfirm their expertise to most of the general public yeah and then the final group

00:10:14.140 is unfortunately usually only accessible to rich people and these are people who actually help

00:10:19.540 people and people who generally have their own lives together uh and the reason they're typically

00:10:24.180 only available to rich people so like consider financial advisors right if someone if a financial

00:10:29.780 advisor guru they wouldn't need to do that if they were actually really good at investing right most of

00:10:35.240 them and so it's much rarer for them to go into financial advising unless they're just like

00:10:39.740 actually altruistically motivated that's why when i'm taking crypto investing advice i look for the

00:10:45.180 most autistic people out there because i know they're doing it because they're like just obsessed 1.00

00:10:50.380 with the numbers and that's why they continue to broadcast even though they have enough money they

00:10:54.620 don't need to do it anymore but that's a good thing but it's also true with like relationships or other

00:10:58.340 aspects of your life generally if somebody has some like base level of competence they've got some

00:11:03.200 other career path laid out for them and if they've been able to succeed with the masses they likely

00:11:08.520 like efficacious advice actually does very poorly with the masses um obvious reasons it's not palatable

00:11:15.800 like it doesn't tell them what they already want to believe it doesn't tell them that everything's not

00:11:19.580 their fault and it takes a while before it's realized and even though it takes a while before it's

00:11:24.620 realized once it is realized then the person's likely too successful or is stuff going on in their life so

00:11:30.840 they're not out there proselytizing to whatever the next group is whereas people who undergo this

00:11:36.380 sort of sunk cost fallacy they end up proselytizing these other systems especially systems that build

00:11:41.420 dependency and that's where you really need to be careful so let's dive into signs that we think so

00:11:45.920 when i does give legitimate advice that we listen to aside from the fact that they're like living the

00:11:50.760 life that we want to live tell me if you hold this intuitively as well or if i am completely off base

00:11:56.540 with this but i often give extra points to someone if they they have something i value or i'm trying to

00:12:04.200 get right so i can trust that sort of their heuristics will get me there but they're also not obsessed with

00:12:09.880 that thing so for example if they're not obsessed with finding a spouse that they love but they just

00:12:14.960 happen to be in a really loving relationship and they did so intentionally and it wasn't just luck

00:12:20.580 then i i trust that more or if they are not obsessed with wealth but they are wealthy and they didn't

00:12:27.200 get that through luck or chance obviously which a lot of people have right they inherited their wealth

00:12:31.420 or they were in the right place at the right time etc then i listen to them extra because i do think

00:12:35.800 that there is also a dangerous signaling effect where if someone for example like really has to see

00:12:41.080 themselves as being in an amazing relationship they might falsely signal how good their relationship is

00:12:47.080 yes i think what you're saying here which is really true is if it's an aspect of their self-identity

00:12:52.420 if their identity is i am good at relationships i am good at being happy i am good at finance they're

00:13:02.940 much more likely to falsely signal in a way that could lead you to over trusting their advice that's a

00:13:08.700 really good signal that i hadn't considered but now also it dovetails with our philosophy on like how to

00:13:15.200 actually get happiness even if you really care about happiness but we don't which is i don't know

00:13:20.840 you give the pitch malcolm what do you think our secret to happiness is well i mean happiness is a

00:13:26.960 reward for a life of efficaciously lived if you set goals for yourself and those are goals that you

00:13:35.360 believe to some extent have real value are actually moving you towards some sort of intrinsic truth

00:13:42.520 as you achieve those goals your body rewards you with happiness meaningful happiness not

00:13:48.820 the cheap kind of happiness which ends up hurting you in the long run i think that the worst thing

00:13:53.200 you can do in regards to any sort of positive emotional state is to chase the emotional state

00:13:58.540 for its own sake more broadly i'd say the actual big question when somebody's okay how do i live a good

00:14:05.420 life or something like this and this is why we wrote the pragmatist guide to life the goal of that book

00:14:09.040 was to try to help people come to their own answers just why do i exist without biasing them towards

00:14:15.220 any answer because i think that once you've answered that question once this is why i think i exist this

00:14:20.280 is like my purpose in the universe or this is what i think is like an intrinsically good action in the

00:14:26.360 universe that action will give me a sort of list of things that i know when i've accomplished them i've

00:14:32.040 done something meaningful and then when i go out and accomplish those things our biology is such

00:14:38.500 that it rewards us with a very meaningful long lasting and in no way bittersweet reward whereas i think

00:14:47.780 most forms of pleasure if they're gotten through almost any other mechanism it typically cause more

00:14:54.120 damage in the long run well and i would add to that so i think that there are other underlying

00:14:58.900 mechanisms to this that really matter like if you let's say that you really want to be happy and you

00:15:04.540 don't pursue this path and instead you pursue whatever is going to make you happiest i think

00:15:09.740 there's a genuine risk of the hedonic treadmill with pretty much anything that you can find that

00:15:15.100 can give you happiness at first you're going to adjust to it it is going to lose its luster and then

00:15:21.760 you're going to find yourself back to where you were when you started and i also think that we've seen

00:15:26.920 across i can't point to one peer-reviewed study on this unfortunately but across many different

00:15:32.160 domains both anecdotally historically when we're looking at populations but then also in terms of

00:15:37.960 studies that like there's this sort of ennui that comes from being comfortable from having all your

00:15:45.780 problems solved maybe from being really wealthy maybe just from being comfortable and bored and

00:15:51.320 surrounded by comfort and surrounded by pleasure that actually leads to a sort of deep emptiness and

00:15:56.300 depression where it's not necessarily a hedonic treadmill problem it is a nothing really matters

00:16:02.620 because nothing's really hard problem and i think that's that could be one of the most depressing

00:16:07.380 states to ever be in and i think it's one reason why many people do suffer from depression because

00:16:12.760 while many people have tons and tons of problems in life in the end a lot of those problems are

00:16:18.260 self-inflicted it's like anxiety they're not existential problems yeah they're not yeah they're not

00:16:22.420 starving to death and where they are worried about like potential death it's from like overeating or

00:16:27.420 something like that yeah self-inflicted to a large extent but more than that they're not even really

00:16:33.000 worried about death if you don't have people depending on you in a big way you're not really

00:16:37.800 worried about death you're worried about what you might lose like throwing something away that you like

00:16:44.100 but there's not the same genuine fear in the same way that there isn't genuine hardship often in the

00:16:51.120 lifestyle of developed country um and i think you're right that does cause a level of ennui but i think

00:16:56.660 another thing that really causes that is that these people aren't taught to look for what genuinely

00:17:02.180 matters in life they are told by society this is what's good this is what's bad and they incorrectly

00:17:09.800 like most people in history have incorrectly assumed that they were at the moral nexus of history

00:17:13.860 which is to say whatever society thinks is moral is what's moral and we are definitely not at the

00:17:19.480 moral nexus of history everyone has always thought that okay our society now has finally figured

00:17:25.020 things out and sometimes you'll talk to progressives and they're like but society becomes more moral as

00:17:31.040 it moves into the future and i was like what are you talking about like you as a progressive

00:17:34.780 obviously believe that lgbt rights are a moral thing we have those multiple times throughout history

00:17:40.980 and then had them stripped away and then they became even a sign of immorality to future generations

00:17:45.820 that the zeitgeist says something is moral does not mean it is and i think that they know this and

00:17:51.180 this is where the ennui comes from they don't believe what the zeitgeist is telling them is moral

00:17:55.980 but they do see it as a sign for status signaling and almost nothing will sap your personal vitality like

00:18:04.660 we're not the types who believe in souls but i do believe that humans have a vitality to their

00:18:10.000 sentience that can be feasted upon and drained from them and one of the things that just drains

00:18:18.100 it faster is a life dedicated to status signaling and there are many ways an individual can do this

00:18:25.400 you'll see pictures of somebody at a beach being like haha not wasting my time buying fancy cars

00:18:31.960 hashtag whatever or it's like what that's just a different form of status signaling you're signaling

00:18:36.980 the free time you have your signaling the things you can do or and where we see this now and where

00:18:41.880 i would really encourage people to not focus on this is a new form of status signaling i've seen in

00:18:46.980 both the far right and the far left is body status signaling so people have convinced themselves

00:18:53.300 that their physical presentation is their identity oh i see the most important part of their identity

00:19:00.240 and where this plays out in the left i think is very obvious but that's not to say that we don't

00:19:05.620 have the same problems on the far right in terms of body dysmorphia i see these young people who are

00:19:12.140 doing surgeries to themselves who are trying to look like the perfect male or trying to look like i guess

00:19:19.260 what they think the perfect female looks like and why like how could that be a thing of intrinsic value 0.98

00:19:25.520 how could what you physically look like matter other than in how it makes your significant other feel

00:19:34.140 i i just and once you have a significant other who cares for you i can guarantee whether they're male

00:19:40.320 or female they might be like oh you could edit this or this but they're definitely not min-maxing your 0.97

00:19:46.080 body unless they're min-maxing you for a status signal themselves and then that's probably a problem

00:19:51.200 am i that what's a trophy wife right you look at these trophy wives i've been in communities where 1.00

00:19:55.940 some people had trophy wives it's a wife that's not chosen because the individual thinks that 0.98

00:20:01.300 they're maximally attracted because i know these people they cheat on their wives i see who they're 1.00

00:20:04.280 cheating on their wives with they're not like supermodels it's a woman who you have modified in a 1.00

00:20:10.800 way that you think positively augments your own status when you go to a party or online or in social

00:20:16.760 media broadly this is the most basic of takes yet it is something that i think so many people

00:20:23.540 they see other people's status signaling and they don't see status signaling in themselves

00:20:29.900 and they don't see that they have optimized their lives around a form of status signaling and that is

00:20:35.020 hurting the same way forms of status signaling that they see as vapid are hurting other people

00:20:40.620 here's a question though because to repeat what we think will make you really happy

00:20:46.400 is successful pursuit of your values and i actually think that someone can live an extremely happy

00:20:53.940 life in successful pursuit of optimizing around a certain character i genuinely think that and i want

00:21:00.020 you to try to refute this let's say that like my whole life is around being this like quirky artist

00:21:06.920 who like hosts my little salons and like creates really cool art and has cats that i paint to be like

00:21:15.600 zoo animals oh weird stuff but i'm really good at doing it it's what i care about so you've set an

00:21:21.920 easy goal and you've accomplished simple things related to that goal keep in mind that the level

00:21:26.180 of deep satisfaction you're going to get from accomplishing any goal is directly proportional

00:21:30.040 to how challenging you believe that goal was now if you believe these goals were actually very

00:21:34.760 challenging you'll get a lot of reward from it or let me push back because i think if your views

00:21:39.940 around maximizing a certain self-image of yourself there is no ceiling to how well you can maximize

00:21:46.200 it and you can spend your entire life in pursuit of that and really struggle because obviously like

00:21:50.840 the ultimate version of whatever it is you're world famous for being that person right you get just

00:21:56.060 more famous and there's a reality tv show about you or you just become even more entrenched in this

00:22:02.040 community even higher in a dominance hierarchy i actually think that someone could spend an entire life

00:22:06.420 investing in this and really feel like there's still a lot more they could do i agree with that

00:22:11.240 if you move high with it yes you could get good emotional reward but then i think the second thing

00:22:15.720 to remember is there's a part of your brain that i think recognizes whether or not what you are doing

00:22:21.080 is something you genuinely believe has value and some of these people might believe that living this

00:22:27.120 archetype does have value okay if you can convince yourself of that and if the only thing that matters is

00:22:32.660 feeling good in life you'll do okay however i think that's a really weird way to structure your life

00:22:38.640 and i can't imagine recommending somebody to do that i'd be like if you are just absolutely convinced

00:22:44.160 that nothing matters in the world and only your happiness matters then you might be able to structure

00:22:50.000 your life in the way that this model would suggest i'm not saying that you can't find meaningful

00:22:56.360 happiness through other avenues i just can't imagine why you would chase them when instead

00:23:02.680 you could do some deep philosophical inquiry into what you think has genuine meaning in the world and

00:23:07.960 what you think an actual life well lived looks like yeah but i think some people don't believe there's

00:23:15.720 genuine meaning in the world and they really want to maximize how happy they feel and they think that

00:23:21.660 what they can be best at is being a character no and that's true and i'm not saying fine do that i

00:23:27.560 think the type of person you're talking about is an incredibly small portion of the population

00:23:31.300 so much so that it's a trivial portion of the population maybe i think i think you are overestimating

00:23:38.120 how willing people are to like really think through deep philosophical subjects and then commit to them

00:23:45.400 and i think people spend a lot of time thinking about what character am i and what is my persona

00:23:51.620 and how do i get people to see me that way and that society spends a lot more time elevating and

00:23:58.280 valorizing people who are amazing colorful characters that everyone knows about than they do people who are

00:24:04.440 extremely thoughtful in their philosophical underpinnings and dedicated to their faith come on

00:24:08.960 no i'm not saying that people aren't bombarded by this stuff i'm just saying it won't it may fulfill

00:24:15.860 this happiness quota but i don't think it'll leave them feeling fulfilled in the same way that you

00:24:20.820 are selling it i think it may for a sliver of the population and i think that you're underestimating the

00:24:26.320 average person i think that the only reason why genuine philosophical inquiry isn't that common in our

00:24:31.680 society today like what's actually right and wrong is our school system has been terrified of teaching

00:24:38.840 people to ask those questions first because they were afraid of pissing off religious people

00:24:43.380 and then because they were afraid of pissing off progressives but both sides like whoever the

00:24:49.120 dominant group in in society at the moment or whoever the dominant group is within any local community

00:24:54.220 they have a vested interest in making sure kids never learn how to ask like what is good and what is

00:24:59.420 evil how do i determine this for myself because if a person doesn't know how to do that then they're

00:25:04.340 going to believe what the people around them say which generally benefits whatever the

00:25:08.540 socially dominant group is at the moment maybe i i think had i not met you i again i think you

00:25:13.920 underestimate just how hard it is to find people who are willing to broach these conversations and

00:25:17.880 push people into making these tough decisions and i think had i not met you i would have totally

00:25:25.240 chosen some kind of shallow pursuit and totally loved it really yeah i actually i'm gonna push back

00:25:31.380 hard here i think you would have hit 30 40 you would have started wanting kids you didn't expect

00:25:37.240 i'm way too hormonally imbalanced to go through that oh okay okay okay delta you change your mind you

00:25:44.840 specifically the one person who didn't get a chance to fully hormonally normalize you wouldn't feel this

00:25:53.720 you'd be totally happy living in your house with your 30 cats and being i wouldn't have 30 cats gross

00:26:00.100 no knocking on people who do but that's not my thing it's unsanitary but no malcolm i really i don't

00:26:07.060 think that suddenly wanting kids is something that makes people get philosophical either i think it

00:26:12.360 just no i'm not saying suddenly wanting kids i want to be clear about this people go through different

00:26:17.120 life stages where different things fulfill basic there's a like we're talking about like deep

00:26:22.500 fulfillment here in terms of what this conversation is about but i think there's a lower level pond of

00:26:27.680 fulfillment which is like basic fulfillment to not feel like everything's falling apart in your life

00:26:32.660 is a wreck okay that basic fulfillment pool changes as you age your biology changes and it

00:26:38.920 changes what it tells you you need when you are a toddler your desires are going to be different from

00:26:43.980 when you're in middle school and when you're in high school and when you're an adult of childbearing

00:26:48.400 ages because your ancestors who survived were doing different things during their different age ranges i think

00:26:55.720 what you're missing is when you are either not a parent or not taking on certain roles in your

00:27:00.960 community um at a certain age and i'm not saying you necessarily having kids or not having kids

00:27:06.480 you are going to feel a type of unfulfillment that you may not be able to point out that you may not be

00:27:12.420 able to articulate but every single person you are a descendant of or who is one of your ancestors

00:27:22.300 hadn't raised kids except for a few rare cases where somebody was adopted or something like that

00:27:29.520 that you don't think that would imprint itself onto how you relate to the world i think is just

00:27:34.960 unrealistic even outside of your weird hormonal profile

00:27:38.640 i don't know people in the comments can i don't know chime in on i guess probably our viewers are

00:27:46.480 more thoughtful philosophically than the average person by a long shot but still i question i question

00:27:53.920 and because even people that we encounter who are very philosophically deep we ask them like okay then

00:27:58.680 what is your objective function what are you maximizing for and they're like oh i just want

00:28:02.400 to learn a lot or i want to be happy and i respect that and they're logically consistent in that

00:28:06.360 conclusion again i think if that's what you're and we know people in our lives whose objective

00:28:11.060 functions more or less optimize around looking a certain way or wanting to be an interesting character

00:28:18.760 what matters to them is like how interesting their narrative they're looking at themselves like a

00:28:23.480 character in a book and they want to look cool i just i think this is way more pervasive than you

00:28:28.380 want to let out my my takeaway would be for people when you're looking at people who you're getting advice

00:28:35.160 from okay the advice they give you no matter how famous they are no matter how recommended they come

00:28:42.380 will only get to you to where they are in life don't expect it to take you further than that

00:28:48.480 so do invest a little bit of time into finding out the actual life circumstances of the people

00:28:55.200 who you are using to shape your world perspective the other thing i would suggest

00:29:00.480 is that our listeners ask themselves why do you exist and if you don't have a good answer to that

00:29:09.720 question then that's literally the most important thing for you to do every day like more important

00:29:16.260 than feeding yourself because if you don't know why you exist if you don't know why you want to exist

00:29:21.120 then you don't know what the function is you're optimizing your life around you can say i just go

00:29:27.220 with the flow but at that point then you're optimizing around going with the flow and the question is why are

00:29:35.760 you optimizing around that if you don't have any logic with that then it's just to survive and i understand

00:29:40.600 a lot of people are just interested in surviving but i don't know and it's like and it's okay to

00:29:46.980 have your vices look in this video i am drinking beer this does not move me towards any of my goals

00:29:52.340 doing things that don't lead you toward the things that you think have long-term value in the world

00:29:58.900 doesn't make you an evil person or it makes you a person and as evil as any human is and that we are

00:30:05.460 all wretched and fallen except i think it's important that people learn to accept that are

00:30:10.180 out themselves and not try to be perfect but try to be the best they can at doing the things they

00:30:17.720 matter in the world or doing the things they think matter in the world so there's one final hitch in

00:30:22.640 this that i think is really important and that i think there's a gradient of sensitivity people have

00:30:27.620 i think probably being on the spectrum i'm way more sensitive to stuff like this where i could be

00:30:32.680 in successful pursuit of my goals but want to die because various proclivities i have are not being

00:30:39.480 met and by that like there are some environments in which like based on the schedule or the amount

00:30:44.880 of control i have over my day or the setting i'm in it doesn't matter if i'm living in alignment with

00:30:50.920 my goals i am miserable and i think that is something that maybe dovetails with maslow's hierarchy of

00:30:57.500 needs and maybe doesn't but there are some things essentially that you need to have in order

00:31:02.100 if you are to function properly not just be happy or unhappy but like basically be able to function

00:31:08.320 and that can differ pretty significantly from one person to another so i think lasso's hierarchy of

00:31:14.580 needs is pointless it just points out what simone is saying sometimes for some people you need one

00:31:21.400 thing before you can clearly focus on something else and that is true and that changes between

00:31:26.640 individuals what those things are however it's also very important that you don't become indulgent

00:31:31.780 in what those things are because at the end of the day the only person you have to be responsible to

00:31:36.240 is yourself and so it's very easy to use these things to create justifications to the people

00:31:41.120 around you around why you're not living the life you should be living um so i almost worry if that

00:31:47.340 knowledge is dangerous but i think you're right because it helps people understand that they are going to

00:31:52.160 fail to be perfectly efficacious in many ways and that's the natural part of being human

00:31:58.140 yeah i think the key is to know what your minimum needs are but also like to orient around those

00:32:06.820 because i think there's a lot of people who are like oh first i have to get to like these levels

00:32:10.520 and maslow's hierarchy of needs or like first i have to create my retirement fund and do all these

00:32:15.160 other things and then i can focus on the meaning of life and if you get caught up trying to go with

00:32:19.840 like societal default or cultural default foundations before you start focusing on whatever

00:32:25.780 it is that gives you meaning and true happiness you are really screwing yourself over because first

00:32:31.700 there's a lot of these things that are fundamental for either like societal defaults or maslow's

00:32:37.020 hierarchy of need defaults or even like your friend and family's defaults that really don't matter to

00:32:41.220 you for example there are some people who are like listen i have to have a certain level of income

00:32:45.640 and wealth to feel comfortable there are other people who like honestly just really don't need

00:32:50.220 it and really don't care some people need to have their house like really clean and really nice other

00:32:54.120 people like don't like oh for example you and me malcolm like when we each live independently

00:32:58.460 we live in so different environments like you just need like a mattress on the ground and like a small

00:33:05.180 like the smallest possible place doesn't matter if there's any natural light if there is

00:33:09.420 wi-fi and like a little bit of privacy right like you're good if i have something soft to sleep on

00:33:16.360 and it's got wi-fi that's all i care about yeah whereas i'm like is it pretty is it clean is it a

00:33:22.980 neighborhood that makes me feel nice what's the natural light situation like so i think really

00:33:27.240 understanding that is important because it but many of those are indulgences you were quite efficient

00:33:32.800 and you knew why you existed even in environments where you didn't have those things

00:33:36.660 i think the question as to why you exist is not a question that has precursors unless you're

00:33:42.800 literally burning to death in a fire right now because it determines everything else that you 0.53

00:33:48.160 are prioritizing and it is not a question you put off yes although there were periods in my life

00:33:54.400 where i was deeply depressed and verging on suicidal and mostly as soon as i changed my setting

00:34:02.160 away from these things that really bothered me it was not a problem gone like

00:34:06.340 i don't know maybe this is an autistic person experience i think that might be because you're

00:34:11.400 autistic in very unique circumstances and you might feel really it could be but but that may be a

00:34:17.440 situation that someone's in and if they haven't tried changing their situation that is something

00:34:21.880 that they can try if they're feeling that way i just don't know if that's yeah i just think that

00:34:27.800 there are two really important parts to the equation right like one important part is do you have the

00:34:32.960 basic things you need to not be artificially depressed in your life and then aside from

00:34:37.480 that it's about successful pursuit of whatever you think intentionally has value oh and the final

00:34:42.900 thing that i'd note here to not forget this is that maintaining the aesthetics of a specific lifestyle

00:34:50.340 once you're at a level where you have everything else handled so don't aspire to the aesthetics of a

00:34:57.620 lifestyle until you have everything else handled but doing that can add a layer on top of everything

00:35:05.520 else you're totally right about right here is how to get your daily sugar this is uh how do you add

00:35:11.460 flavoring agents to it and aesthetics of a lifestyle can be a very planned thing like i am going to do x or y

00:35:19.680 because it fits this aesthetic goal that i have for myself but i think that's very different than

00:35:25.620 aesthetics as an end goal or aesthetics as a status signaling yeah and let me just add to this to

00:35:33.000 illustrate what you mean which is sometimes we will do things that we won't enjoy in the moment because

00:35:39.140 we know it creates happy narratives and memories and images that tell us all something about our lives

00:35:46.160 about us enjoying the moment and whatnot so it might be like a really hot summer day and none of us really

00:35:51.180 wants to go out and take a walk somewhere beautiful but we do it anyway and we take photos of it and we

00:35:56.220 act happy and we just do it and then in the end we're really happy that it happened and we're probably

00:36:01.080 on average a little bit more happy because we are playing out that narrative so there is and it's funny

00:36:08.900 because when you flip that away like and when you make that happen independent of someone having values

00:36:14.120 and you make that just like the person who's taking the instagram vacation and it's miserable and they're just

00:36:19.360 there and they're snapping photos and they're not enjoying anything it's terrible it's dystopian it is

00:36:24.220 like exactly the opposite of any advice that you'd give to people and yet somehow on the flip side of

00:36:30.440 this like when you add it like you say is like the cherry on top it really does add this sparkle and

00:36:36.240 luster that genuinely makes us but it needs to be time efficient it needs to be the type of thing you're

00:36:40.800 not doing a whole vacation to 100 yeah which reminds me simone we still have some blackberries we

00:36:45.580 haven't picked in the yard time to do that and the chickens we just got little baby chicks for the 0.91

00:36:51.280 kids i need to go pick up the kids to introduce them to them oh my gosh they're gonna be so excited

00:36:55.260 all right let's do this i'm so stoked chicken time love you malcolm

00:36:59.660 you

00:37:05.340 you

00:37:07.340 you

00:37:09.340 you

00:37:11.340 you

00:37:13.340 you

Based Camp - August 04, 2023

Based Camp： Why Do So Many Self-Help Gurus Have Terrible Lives？

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