Based Camp - BDSM + Catholicism： It Almost Happened

00:00:00.000 yeah so when i say a coup this is this really happened yeah if you're like how far will they

00:00:08.780 go look at these 90 votes we're seeing here and the reason we're talking about this right after

00:00:15.600 the sspxing as i want to show the way the vatican reacts when progressives do something

00:00:21.640 demonstrably worse but in the same same directionality as what sspx is doing when i

00:00:28.360 say we i see the catholics who do not want this as our genuine allies in this journey right would

00:00:36.420 you like to know more simona i'm excited to be here with you today i had a shocking event so

00:00:42.300 we did an episode on the catholic church expelling some of its most devoted bishops well they were

00:00:51.860 ordained bishops for being sspx and you know we were like this is fairly mainstream conservatism

00:00:58.940 within the catholic church they don't really hold that many radical beliefs and then somebody was

00:01:03.760 like oh you don't know anything about catholic history you need to read more about recent 0.98

00:01:07.880 catholic history to really have a perspective on this and i think that that was the dumbest 0.97

00:01:13.520 thing you could have called me to do oh no yeah what were you literally every time i look at 0.94

00:01:18.600 catholic history it's like when you put a cucumber next to a cat and it like turns and looks at it

00:01:27.900 and flies in the air like oh my god but today we're going to talk about the craziest event 0.98

00:01:37.480 that i've ever heard of where they basically tried to create a break-off gay catholic church 0.71

00:01:46.040 that had sort of a different governing system than the main catholic church different beliefs

00:01:52.580 and different rules in the main catholic church hold on this sounds really fun and it all started

00:01:57.780 in the craziest way possible too so they had all these sex scandals okay yeah and so in response

00:02:06.240 to the sex scandals and this was the second biggest convention in response to the sex

00:02:09.840 scandal this was not like some small whatever thing this was for the entire national priesthood

00:02:16.920 in in germany uh so they they put on this giant germany wide like for what catholics believe in

00:02:25.040 germany event about what to do about all of the you know child situation wasn't this a south park

00:02:31.920 episode the south park basically had a thing on this now the biggest thing they did in response

00:02:37.100 this was the thing they did at the vatican but this was the second biggest okay and so what they

00:02:41.160 decided to do and what this conference turned into and i kid you not we're going to go into

00:02:46.000 the details if you're catholic and you already know you're like oh no they immediately started

00:02:52.880 and i and i like catholics i'm pro-catholic i like gays okay but i think that if you were

00:03:01.340 looking at these events so they got them all together to solve this issue and the things

00:03:07.400 that they started drafting were things like we should change trans people's genders when they

00:03:13.880 get in their like confirmation files we should start blessing same-sex unions we should start

00:03:22.160 normalizing priests having sex even recreational sex wait but within marriage or not within marriage

00:03:29.220 just sex they they weren't interested in in priests getting married they were interested 0.99

00:03:34.260 in removing the celibacy stuff we should start isn't it sinful perfect catholicism to have sex

00:03:40.100 outside marriage no no no that was another thing that they wanted to address to remind people very

00:03:46.140 clearly that it is not a sin to have sex outside of marriage remind they well they believed that

00:03:52.300 this was the correct teaching and they wanted to start a separate and i should note here if you're

00:03:58.180 like oh this was like some fringe loonies or whatever there there were two cardinals involved

00:04:03.700 one cardinal basically ran this there were hundreds of bishops involved and despite all of

00:04:10.160 this sspx says we want latin mask and think that you're being a little too ecumenical they get

00:04:17.240 excommunicated okay this event they ran this multiple years and i want to point out that the

00:04:24.160 vatican told them at one point like hey you guys are saying the quiet part out loud a little too

00:04:30.000 much because at this event many of these crazy things i'm talking about had over a 90 vote from

00:04:35.280 the bishops oh wow but the vatican said you cannot keep doing this this is a threat to the same thing

00:04:42.000 they said that sspx was a threat to the church's unity this is a threat to the church's unity and

00:04:46.960 they just ignored the vatican and kept doing it no excommunications okay so was it what did

00:04:55.800 did you see anything about their justification where they like look whatever it takes we're

00:05:00.740 hemorrhaging numbers yeah yeah we're gonna go over quotes of their justification okay we're gonna go

00:05:05.140 over like why they thought they were doing this where they thought they were getting the backing

00:05:09.120 for this stuff like why they thought this was an okay thing to do at all how close they came to

00:05:15.020 creating a counter catholic government to specifically oppose the norm set up by the

00:05:20.660 vatican and we'll also look at with current voting numbers in terms of because i think catholics

00:05:26.580 sometimes forget how far left the bishop class of the church actually is what would happen if they

00:05:33.220 actually tried to do a vatican three because a lot of people think it would push back we'll go

00:05:37.280 into the numbers and see if it actually would and i want to go into all of this by pointing out

00:05:41.420 we as people are fairly pro-gay for conservatives right like i'm like i don't think that it should

00:05:46.560 be outlawed do what you want to do whatever that that said while i think that that's from my

00:05:53.280 reading of the bible that's not a traditional catholic interpretation right like and to say

00:05:59.280 that this should be normalized within a traditional catholic context is quite different than me being

00:06:04.760 like look i like gays i like catholics do i think that this should be pushed to be normalized in the 0.97

00:06:13.780 church especially the trans stuff when we now know how harmful this is to see any of our other

00:06:17.960 episodes on that that's where i'm like wow this is crazy and if you want to get an idea of how 0.79

00:06:23.040 crazy all of this is in germany i will read to you a article that came out i think just like two

00:06:29.880 days ago major catholic event in germany features bdsm and lesbian groups wait like an action not

00:06:38.820 that like the catholic church also appeared at an event where there was no a number of catholic

00:06:44.520 bishops including bishop franz wong wonsberg co-host an event so a major catholic event in

00:06:50.920 germany will feature bdsm and lesbian catholic groups the german castle tag or catholics day

00:06:56.420 will take place from literally called catholics day may 14th to may 16th in wesenberg and will

00:07:03.740 prominently feature several heterodox groups now again i'm okay with bdsm right like i'm well and

00:07:09.680 if there's a religion that wants to pull off the aesthetics of bdsm i mean you do have a point

00:07:14.960 there with mortification and everything have the mortification tent and the bdsm tent right next

00:07:20.140 each other it's perfect come on they're selling the same good it's perfect you can see who's

00:07:26.920 adding a margin on the traditional no for people who are unfamiliar with mortification some

00:07:31.000 traditional more extremist catholic groups do forms of like self-flagellation or the more

00:07:35.840 common stuff today is like tight things you like put around your ankles and stuff like this that

00:07:39.840 hurt you a bit yeah just to like remind you to be i actually think it's a great thing i'm i'm fairly

00:07:44.840 pro-mortification but they use some of these instruments that have been borrowed by or

00:07:50.460 convergently evolved by the bdsm community and often people within the bdsm community kind of

00:07:55.540 use a lot of these methods for the same thing i mean they're like well it reminds me of my master

00:08:00.340 but my master makes me a better person blah blah but like master god like it's all yeah i mean

00:08:05.920 yeah there's a there's a horse shoe that really gets close at the ends there

00:08:10.760 but i can i can like me as somebody who's like okay with all of these things individually

00:08:18.620 is saying just to understand like how outside of what should be happening this is i'm like

00:08:26.000 this is shocking to me you should not be mixing the fulsome street fair and a celebration called

00:08:31.560 catholics day i mean at the same time though as a as an outsider who didn't grow up in the catholic

00:08:39.280 church it just seems to work it seems so right catholic school girl outfit all that yeah like

00:08:45.900 actually think about it i mean and that's but i that the idea would come from within the church

00:08:51.260 though is shocking that doesn't check out that's very strange yeah oh gosh you want to hear one of

00:08:59.260 the the groups that's participating yes ecumenical work groups on bdsm and christianity

00:09:05.500 actually though that's just what i was talking about it's gonna have its own tent at the church

00:09:12.980 mile but no you saying actually i know you say this as a joke simone but no i also mean it very

00:09:19.900 earnestly the reality is is that you joking about this or acting like it's not a big deal that this

00:09:26.240 is happening is why the rot has been able to get so far within catholicism and why the religion

00:09:32.360 is dying because you're treating things that should not be considered a joke a joke right

00:09:38.780 like this is their religious and cultural identity and it is being both really deviantly

00:09:45.980 subverted right like in a way that is i think quite alarming i'm okay counterpoint counterpoint

00:09:53.340 the catholic church has a long and storied history of attempting to grow by i guess it's it's

00:10:00.680 religious version of colonization involves saying oh you worship these local folk gods no that's 0.93

00:10:06.560 just the virgin mary it just kind of what happened as a result of that now now catholics are a bunch

00:10:12.800 of idolaters who worship statues and shrines i know i'm just saying this stems back farther than

00:10:18.000 you think right they're just doing the same thing they did i'm saying the point i'm making is i think

00:10:24.060 even most catholics like not all catholics are idolaters but they're if you're a catholic you

00:10:29.300 fully realize there is a faction or subsects of catholicism they absolutely took these local

00:10:36.280 gods and now essentially well you know on the surface christian are essentially pagans so in

00:10:44.620 other words it was it was a mistake for for the catholic church to think oh that you can just be

00:10:50.160 like no no no like we we do believe the same thing and and because they don't they don't

00:10:55.520 they're idolatrous they don't they shouldn't come in and been like you're super super wrong

00:10:59.940 here's why here's a better way and they didn't do that they took they didn't do that being like no

00:11:06.180 we all really agree and that's not true i mean right now the church is fighting really hard in

00:11:11.920 mexico the church of saint muerte right and yeah or the cult of saint muerte i guess you'd call

00:11:17.240 them because they believe they're catholics and these are people who believe that they are

00:11:23.320 catholics who worship alongside a saint that is made of human bones a human skeleton dressed in

00:11:32.800 red that you pray for things too that you would be embarrassed to ask christ for like wanting 0.98

00:11:40.760 somebody dead or wanting someone to force to have sex with you or fall in love with you right like

00:11:46.380 anyone can look at this on the outside and be like, ah, I know what that is. The human bone

00:11:53.740 thing that addressed in red and you pray for other people's death too, right? Like that is

00:12:00.920 recognizable, but they didn't see that as recognizable because someone like you at some

00:12:05.680 point along the chain said, Hey, let's try to combine BDSM was mortification. And then it got

00:12:12.100 incepted into the movement and now they have to stamp it out but they can't because parts of these

00:12:17.760 groups have made it all the way to the top yeah that's so funny because when i was a kid in school

00:12:23.840 the lesson was definitely oh they did this thing where they just told everyone around the world

00:12:30.760 no no we believe the same thing and they just changed names and that it worked they said that

00:12:36.620 was very effective if you go to the catholic groups across africa right now they all like

00:12:41.460 believe in witches and stuff right like if you look at the relative ability probably not they

00:12:47.420 all i bet there are some very devout we'll say to the okay i'm talking on average right now this

00:12:53.620 isn't to say that in protestant parts of africa they do not also still have some of those beliefs

00:12:58.100 but generally speaking this belief that this tactic that yes the catholic church did historically

00:13:04.880 demonstrably use they'd be like oh so what's the locals say it's a little different name for this

00:13:09.360 or whatever right one doesn't seem to have actually helped them with conversions and regions

00:13:13.560 when we look at the regions that the protestants settled they generally seem to have converted at

00:13:20.720 the same rate as the regions that castles settled but well i will note that there is

00:13:28.080 one minor difference in the two regions which is typically the regions that the protestants settled

00:13:34.560 today and we don't know how this happened big mystery but they're mostly predominantly northern

00:13:41.860 european today like the united states and canada and australia and new zealand whereas the catholic

00:13:52.300 regions are more mixed today not not not saying anything bad happened there i'm just saying it's

00:13:56.980 a weird pattern but it there's actually a lot of like we could go into like what we have another

00:14:03.480 episode actually the is slavery moral episode where we talk about essentially why this happened

00:14:08.600 the cursed lore there as well but where was i where was i going with this it doesn't actually

00:14:16.080 seem to have helped them convert local populations but it has had major negative effects on the

00:14:23.520 populations that they converted in terms of the way that they practice their religion so if we

00:14:28.140 To put this in VC terms, they basically were a startup like Uber that was able to get tons of

00:14:35.980 customers when they're like, oh, just use our car share app or car writing app. It costs basically

00:14:41.720 nothing. It's less expensive than a taxi. And then the VC dollars drive up, but they're like,

00:14:46.120 oh, we have this many users. They all pay because they pay like a little bit. But then ultimately,

00:14:50.180 these aren't people who would actually pay a sustainable profit generating rate to Uber.

00:14:56.320 they were not real customers they were fake customers and that what happened with all these

00:15:01.300 missionaries was they were just doing the easy fake thing and not actually converting them oh

00:15:07.880 and of course there's like a version of this in in the book mormon the broadway play by matt stone

00:15:12.680 and tree parker where one missionary goes to africa and tries to convert people he makes up all these

00:15:17.500 stories because it's just like more convenient and they all end up believing this completely

00:15:21.900 weird version of Mormonism that isn't true at all. And I'm sure that that happens a lot when

00:15:27.140 you're trying to convert someone and you don't have enough faith yourself in your religion to

00:15:34.080 really sell someone on it or explain the hard parts. Yeah, I think that you're going to take

00:15:40.580 the cheap shot because you just want to look good and get your whatever rewards, your conversion

00:15:45.120 points. Yeah. So the key pushback I have on you is no, we shouldn't be normalizing this stuff.

00:15:50.200 you know that's fair that's fair religions have rules and beliefs and they have them for a reason

00:15:56.560 and if you just update it to whatever mainstream urban monoculture academic elites think should

00:16:03.460 be the normative this isn't to say that religions and belief systems shouldn't evolve over time

00:16:08.500 but if that evolution isn't driven by what drives thriving within the population which these are not

00:16:15.640 Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I'm not trying to say this is a good thing for the religion. What I'm saying is there's something that narratively just makes so much sense that's in a very satisfying way. But when we're talking about religion, only hard religions impart fitness, only the religions that obligate people to do the hard thing and be disciplined and do the right hard thing, even when it's difficult and costly and painful, are going to be the ones that survive.

00:16:43.700 because a religion that's just like oh don't worry about it like it's okay it's fine that's

00:16:48.260 not going to create people who step up to challenges as challenges arise and over time

00:16:53.020 they will go extinct you're absolutely 100 right and ultimately bdsm is a movement that is built

00:16:58.680 around wasting time and pleasure but primarily wasting time you got to get the gear you got to

00:17:04.800 go over the rule book it is ridiculous do we have all the gear do you think yeah let's get the gear

00:17:11.340 all right dave hike yeah that's great what if it rains you're right let's get the rain here

00:17:18.440 you know there are so many more efficient yeah but like within techno puritanism i am totally okay

00:17:23.140 with using sexuality to draw people in to look cooler to look more fun with sure you know hot

00:17:29.340 ai anime girls or whatever i am not into giant wastes of time or beginning to identify with

00:17:35.940 particular sexual lifestyles which is what bdsm is that's identifying a section of your lifestyle

00:17:42.340 with whatever happens to turn you on and that leads to negative externalities but let's get

00:17:46.780 into the actual event here because it's going to like blow your mind that this happened

00:17:49.780 okay so the synod was 230 members including the majority of bishops in germany at the time

00:17:59.880 in terms of there were some conservatives who were involved at the beginning but they mostly

00:18:06.100 opted out oh so this is how we got that 90 well it was still only like three or four conservative

00:18:12.660 bishops opted out it was it was trivial so a lot of them stayed in and it just yeah so let's go

00:18:18.020 over the various proposals that they came up with of how they were going to not be as interested

00:18:24.000 in graping children anymore okay so proposal number one were blessings for same-sex couple

00:18:30.980 couples these were official blessing ceremonies so not full marriages for both same-sex couples

00:18:36.900 remarried divorced people and others in relationships matching non-sacramental marriages

00:18:41.600 you can't participate in that what does that have to do with kids

00:18:44.920 what do you that's the entire point this stuff basically it was just a grab bag of what ultra

00:18:52.380 progressives wanted and and and dj like dj's wanted and nothing to do is what can like what

00:18:58.500 actually address the problem it was like somebody they were like come into the room and people were

00:19:03.660 just like oh what's all of the stuff i can change about the church the moment they had some big

00:19:08.440 crisis uh this one got 90 to 95 approval in terms of voters the next one was a re-evaluation of the

00:19:16.660 church teaching on gay lifestyles. They wanted a quote-unquote magisterial reassessment of

00:19:24.220 gay lifestyles, called for revising and updating cataclysm passages, e.g. 2357 and 2359, 0.58

00:19:34.320 and integrating quote-unquote modern science slash theology for greater acceptance. This got an 80 to

00:19:40.620 90 percent vote. Now keep in mind when I'm talking about these huge votes here that these

00:19:46.200 things we're getting this happened recently within the last half decade and when people are like oh

00:19:50.980 we just need to have like a vatican three to fix all of this i'm like these people would be at

00:19:55.080 vatican three okay so so be aware now there is a hope and the hope well just give it away is that

00:20:01.640 the the membership and a bishops and cardinals that come out of africa have significantly grown

00:20:07.300 since vatican two and they are very conservative okay and that's that's where you know we try i

00:20:14.420 mean the conservative faction tried to incept the catholics to elect a black guy and we all wanted

00:20:19.760 what's his name sarah to be elected oh yeah yes it was yeah it was a woman's sounding name but yes

00:20:27.300 next one they wanted woman's ordination this is the next thing they thought would fix this

00:20:32.020 ah okay well i mean women are far less commonly known for having problems with children

00:20:41.820 of that sort they're not it's not that unknown and i'd point out that statistically

00:20:50.160 gay nuns were such a phenomenon that i think we've done an episode on this where we point out

00:20:57.140 that when post vatican ii they moved the nunneries closer to the cities nuns began to play a major

00:21:03.120 part in gay female culture to the extent that the same role that biker gangs played for early

00:21:10.040 the development of gay male culture catholic nuns played for the development of lesbian culture

00:21:15.540 which is why you have so many nun like aesthetics and sort of fetish related things within the

00:21:20.400 lesbian community today a uk home office study in the late 90s found that fewer less than five

00:21:25.480 percent of child you know what offenses were committed by women an analysis of catholic

00:21:32.300 institutional abuse in australia found that 95 percent of alleged offenders were men

00:21:38.660 five okay well maybe this would have genuinely addressed it yeah man i'm hearing solutions now

00:21:44.260 don't don't um but this would be horrible for the like when i when we look at the anglicans

00:21:49.120 electing a lady pope right right yeah that's causing peace out a huge like that would be like

00:21:55.220 auto schism for i think a a huge portion of conservative catholics like the the catholics

00:22:03.440 were like i would never schism would you schism as a lady pope like this is my question well

00:22:08.480 whoa whoa it's gonna it would take a very long time we still haven't had a female president in

00:22:13.440 the u.s and female suffrage started in what 1918 hold it simone yeah hold it it should have taken

00:22:19.940 a very long time with the anglicans as well right like and note here anglicans only let women first

00:22:26.880 join the clergy in 1944 you don't need a plurality of women in a voting body to elect a woman to

00:22:34.380 signal that now you're an understanding organization when you have people who vote

00:22:40.240 like this and what percent of people wanted to open this 92 percent with 82 percent of bishops

00:22:46.860 in favor wow okay i keep in mind of the of the people key people like attending this and stuff

00:22:53.940 like this there were people with xeno pronouns there were people with like really yeah the guy

00:23:00.840 who wrote the documentation for this for accepting the trans people had xeno pronouns

00:23:08.060 wow who wrote it keep in mind guys sspx was excommunicated

00:23:18.640 for latin math yep yep yep yep and you could say and disobeying the pope but the pope also

00:23:27.720 told them not to hold this no excommunications okay well at least after the first one specifically

00:23:34.080 they wanted to open the diaconate and by extension discuss priesthood to women challenge

00:23:41.580 ordeosarcadialists or something and called for universal church re-examination they wanted to

00:23:48.720 re-examine their transgender policies specifically they wanted concrete improvements for for

00:23:55.200 transgender people including updating baptismal records to match self-identifying gender and

00:24:01.080 mandatory education for clergy and removing gender identity barriers to ministries i just love the

00:24:06.980 statement mandatory education for clergy because apparently they need additional education in

00:24:14.580 regards to how they deal with gender so that you could be a priest even if you identify basically

00:24:20.600 they wanted to open the priesthood to xenogender types and transgender types it's self-id catholic

00:24:26.220 church edition yeah this had a 96 vote in favor if you want to go over how the bishops voted

00:24:33.240 keep in mind this was open to all the bishops in germany 38 voted yes was only seven voting no

00:24:41.300 13 voted in absentia okay well 38 to yes to only seven voting no

00:24:49.660 and then the craziest part was the permanent synod council which we'll get to in a second

00:24:55.900 and this had a 93 percent vote for remind me again what what year did this happen

00:25:03.820 it's 2000 something i want to say around 2010 sort of over like a 10 or eight year period they

00:25:09.560 One thing that occurs to me, now that you're mentioning that people have things like xenopronouns and stuff, is that the one family friend who was in an order, a Carmelite nun when we knew her, when I knew her as a kid, but now she's a mother, had mentioned that as she grew up in the ranks of her convent, an issue they had with novices, women who wanted to enter the convent and become Carmelite nuns,

00:25:35.860 is that many of them just had mental disorders and they just wanted to opt out of mainstream life

00:25:44.540 and they didn't actually care about Catholicism. And I wonder if one of the issues that the

00:25:51.820 Catholic Church is fighting, trying to fight unsuccessfully perhaps, is that a lot of now

00:25:58.200 just mentally ill people are turning to career paths. I think it's not just mentally ill people. 0.93

00:26:04.860 I think consider what the priesthood offers you. You, you don't have to worry about money anymore.

00:26:09.980 You don't have to worry about, you know, it's just like, you don't have to worry about a job

00:26:13.300 anymore. You just do what somebody else tells you to, and everything works out for you, right?

00:26:17.240 Yeah. It's like a different version of entering academia with way more job security.

00:26:21.700 And you can see why it attracts so many socialists, right? You know, and I want to

00:26:25.240 point out here that when I go over these things, some of these, I think actually could be good

00:26:30.580 things i think opening the priesthood to marriage is biblical you know intimacy we see that to have

00:26:37.180 leadership in the church you're supposed to have it can be read multiple ways the way that i think

00:26:43.900 is like a fair and honest reading of it is you need to be married the way that catholics read

00:26:48.720 it is they say that you shouldn't have a more than one wife which would imply that polyamory

00:26:53.720 is normal within christianity and even so why would you need to apply that if you were going

00:26:59.700 to have an entire priesthood and god knew he was going to do this where nobody was married

00:27:03.360 right like i think a lot of the natalist problems and problems of capture that catholics have come

00:27:09.400 from the celibate priesthood so i'm actually for that right i think they should start getting

00:27:14.560 married and having large families like i i point out like in every other religion the most devout

00:27:18.500 person what do they do they end up having the most kids the most about orthodox jew has the

00:27:21.260 most kids the most about baptist has the most kid the most catholic has no kids but i think a lot

00:27:25.700 of them are sometimes just people who wanted to live the lifestyle of a priest or not like not

00:27:30.660 worry about the outside world which can draw on the socialist which can draw on the activist type

00:27:35.440 which is why but if you want to get into what they were saying about all of this let's go to

00:27:39.280 bishop george batsing okay um this is somebody mind you not excommunicated sspx was excommunicated

00:27:46.960 he said i will not deny god's blessing for those in committed relationships who are seeking it

00:27:53.060 this is him talking about wanting to bless gay unions which is rich because he's also the guy

00:27:59.060 who said saying sex outside of marriage is not a sin but then later he said it's okay if it's done

00:28:07.280 with fidelity and responsibility and okay what i find interesting and i think that people can look

00:28:14.200 at like our techno puritanism and see where we're strict on things see where we're not strict on

00:28:20.160 things and see that we might be significantly stricter on a lot of christian principles

00:28:27.940 than your average catholic bishop wow i think you're right which probably rocks people right

00:28:40.420 they're like wow their weird religion is and we're pretty we're pretty like laid out like what's that

00:28:46.360 you know x is a sin y is a sin the reason why we're less strict than a lot of groups on something 0.83

00:28:50.460 like let's say gay right is we believe that while gayness is a sin it's not as bad a sin as many 0.97

00:28:57.760 other sins specifically as to why it's a sin it's because it's just not the most efficient way to 0.93

00:29:04.000 live your life and when i say gayness i do not mean being same-sex attracted i mean choosing

00:29:09.460 to base your life around same-sex attraction choosing to choose your primary partner based

00:29:15.660 around same-sex attraction that this dramatically impacts your ability to have kids live on to the

00:29:23.500 next generation and i will say i've known so many good and diligent gay people who said well i can

00:29:30.100 still make it work and i will tell you out of every single one of them i have met i haven't met a

00:29:34.640 single one of them who has a lot of kids who's actually contributing to the next generation

00:29:38.900 they tried it just doesn't seem to work like the bible's advice on this actually appears pretty

00:29:45.860 sound and i'm not going to say like i wish that was in the case it's just i know a lot of really

00:29:50.860 dedicated same-sex attracted individuals who tried to make it work and it didn't work for them

00:29:55.840 a lot and it i think making it work is more of a larp than we or society admits and therefore 0.61

00:30:04.360 Or you can still like net be a good person and be right with God while being gay so long

00:30:12.080 as you accept the negative externalities that may have on your life and in society and not 0.71

00:30:17.220 predominantly identify with a sinful behavioral pattern in the same context as somebody that

00:30:23.060 they primarily identify as a gamer or they primarily identify as into BDSM.

00:30:27.100 And that's like their lifestyle.

00:30:28.160 Well, you're certainly not living a productive and virtuous lifestyle if you're dedicating

00:30:31.920 your entire life to that.

00:30:33.040 But so like we say this with caveats, but we're still broadly like it's not as bad as something like if I was going to rank it on a stream of things, stealing, white collar crime, regularly lying to people. 0.55

00:30:52.940 like like those sorts of things are significantly worse or being a straight

00:30:59.740 gooner 24 7 right like that that would be a worse kind of especially if that has an effect on your

00:31:05.520 life where you're not going on you're not being productive but i'm i'm saying all of this was

00:31:09.440 but that's not the catholic position right and even an updated catholic position that was designed

00:31:16.460 to make the church stronger i don't think would look like that i don't think that that would make

00:31:21.420 the church healthier to continue here what did cardinal reinhardt marx who was a supporter of

00:31:26.540 this he said he he said i desire an inclusive church a church that includes all who want to

00:31:33.560 walk the way of jesus he he celebrated quote 20 years of queer worship and pastoral care

00:31:41.460 and keep in mind you can be like this sounds weird to me like how are these for example gay

00:31:46.700 rights activists in the catholic church and we pointed out that one of the core documents

00:31:49.500 in our episode the gay jew who wrote core catholic doctrine watch that episode if you 0.92

00:31:54.280 hadn't it's the craziest thing i ever learned were written by priests who we now know during 0.98

00:32:00.580 the period of writing them were actively having gay sex and that that were not just that but very 0.93

00:32:06.740 publicly did more lgbt rights activism than catholic activism while the church was supporting 0.52

00:32:14.600 their lifestyle paying for them and everything like that and they were writing core parts of

00:32:17.700 medican too and so when you see that it makes a lot of sense that you're hearing stuff like this 0.50

00:32:22.360 this is normal and this is again where i think your average catholic especially your average

00:32:28.060 like strict catholic doesn't fully grok how extremely socialist and progressive

00:32:35.460 the bishop class of catholicism is especially in europe in the united states we've got people on

00:32:42.700 both sides of the spectrum but in europe it is extremely captured and europe controls because

00:32:48.640 they're closer to the vatican a lot of the politics of what's going on there and what's

00:32:53.600 coming out of there the next one to go from another bishop here on women's ordination he

00:33:02.480 said the question of adding the word women's ordination exists and it has to be elaborated

00:33:07.500 on and discussed. Popes have tried to say the question is closed, but the fact is that the

00:33:13.240 question exists. Many young women say a church that refuses all of this cannot be my church in

00:33:19.420 the long run. And I hope I will still experience a woman becoming a deacon. The path to women

00:33:26.020 priests is still long. I wish for it. So, you know, the goal isn't just women in lower positions. 1.00

00:33:33.260 it's moving them up for these people okay keep in mind this got an over 90 vote from the people

00:33:39.640 who were present at this and then the co-leader well we'll go to the next one here now the overall

00:33:45.200 governance changes the one of the leaders of this thomas stromberg said the process was not in exact

00:33:51.660 words was designed to create quote-unquote pressure for change quote only through pressure

00:33:56.780 does real change come about end quote and he admitted that it was explicitly structured to

00:34:02.200 avoid easy vatican prohibition now i'll be reading here from a catholic newspaper that did a piece

00:34:10.220 on this about what they were pushing for governmentally so they were pushing for a

00:34:15.940 permanent synod council a new national body of bishops plus laity with ongoing decision-making

00:34:22.480 authority over the church in germany seen by the vatican as undermining bishops authority and

00:34:28.620 risking a national church parallel structure repeatedly attempted to block and restrict this

00:34:35.680 see this is so much worse than what sspx was doing nobody got excommunicated over this synod way which

00:34:43.320 was the name of this whole debacle votes to establish a permanent synod council to oversee

00:34:48.120 church and diocese in germany in a move aimed at achieving what critics compared to a communist

00:34:54.040 council in the soviet union participants of the german synod way on saturday voted to create a

00:35:00.140 synod council that would permanently oversee the church in germany at the freight permanently

00:35:05.660 oversee the church in germany is that kind of like how the orthodox church works how there's the

00:35:10.780 the patriarchy in like moscow and then there's one in greece yeah basically they wanted the

00:35:17.240 german church to be sovereign yeah to have a separate set of government governance body

00:35:24.000 that controlled both the church's funds in germany and controlled the church's beliefs

00:35:29.380 and norms in germany wow yeah so when i say a coup this is this really happened or like separatist

00:35:39.280 movement it yeah which is wild that they think with all of the control they have over the vatican

00:35:46.360 right now that their faction has that's not enough if you're like how far will they go

00:35:51.340 look at these 90 votes we're seeing here at the frankfurt meeting on september 10th the

00:35:57.960 controversial suggestion won almost 93 of the votes only five bishops rejected the document

00:36:03.840 cna deutsch cna's german language partner agency reported the permanent senate council would

00:36:09.780 function as a consultative and decision-making body on the essential developments of the church

00:36:14.740 society, the German proposed states. More importantly, it would, quote, make fundamental

00:36:20.960 decisions of separate diocena significance on plastoral planning, questions of the future of

00:36:26.900 budgetary matters of the church that are not decided at the diocene level, end quote. In order

00:36:32.560 to make the council work, it should be supported by a permanent secretary, adequately staffed and

00:36:37.780 financed. And it wanted to have a private vote. So keep in mind, if we're seeing these public votes,

00:36:44.200 be this far lefty.

00:36:45.840 You can only imagine what a private vote would look like.

00:36:48.720 In terms of the cardinals who were involved with this,

00:36:51.060 you had Cardinal Reinhard Marx.

00:36:52.900 He was involved throughout the entire thing

00:36:55.140 and served as the chairman.

00:36:56.360 Keep in mind, this guy votes on who becomes Pope, okay?

00:36:59.260 He strongly defended the process throughout.

00:37:01.240 And then the other cardinal you had involved

00:37:02.540 was Cardinal Reinhard Maria Wolke.

00:37:05.280 And she later became a strong opponent

00:37:07.400 after the Vatican turned against it.

00:37:10.720 Huh.

00:37:13.200 Yeah.

00:37:14.200 and oh i loved this quote from the the thing that was writing on it about what they had to say about

00:37:19.860 the people who opposed the conference skull sir herself had taken a public stance against the

00:37:24.400 document however organizers this is the the pro gay stuff document earlier dismissed concerns

00:37:30.940 and pressures on bishops rejecting the pro lgbt document with president stedic carp labeling the

00:37:36.240 bishops attacking it as quote-unquote whiny following the fallout on saturday hannah barbara

00:37:42.340 ger faults a noted philosopher also announced she would leave early because of how the synod way was

00:37:47.820 being handled dorcia schmidt one of the few participants who regularly expressed clear

00:37:52.700 criticism of the text under discussion supported the two women's decision in an interview with

00:37:57.780 edtn she accused the leadership of the synod way of not tolerating minority opinions and simply

00:38:04.800 pushing their own line this was a quote from her in the pursuit of goals that had been quote fixed

00:38:10.260 at the outset end quote i find this all so confounding they seem to really think this

00:38:20.260 was going to be accepted by the vatican well the vatican didn't excommunicate them and they just

00:38:25.740 kept doing it i think simone really hits on something here which is that they did this and

00:38:31.380 didn't think that the vatican would push back on them and were right that the vatican wouldn't

00:38:36.420 successfully push back on them for this shows that they understood within their circles within

00:38:42.260 the clergy circles that there was a underlying acceptance of these police to the extent i mean

00:38:49.780 keep in mind over 90 voted on them that they would just be passed through that everybody

00:38:54.840 secretly within the priest caste within the bishop caste within the cardinal caste secretly

00:39:00.280 agreed on all of this and to get under oh this is the 2020 statement by the vatican which was

00:39:04.940 their strongest rebuke of this. They said, and this was more recent than I thought, so 2020s.

00:39:10.720 Oh, whoa, really recent. Okay. Yeah. The synod way does not have the power to compel bishops

00:39:17.420 and the faithful to adopt new forms of governments and new orientations of doctrine and morals.

00:39:22.300 And they called it, quote, a wound to the ecclesiastical communion and a threat to the

00:39:27.160 unity of the church. And the reason we're talking about this right after the SSPXing,

00:39:32.540 as i want to show the way the vatican reacts when progressives do something that i would see as

00:39:38.600 demonstrably worse but in the same same directionality as what sspx is doing

00:39:44.700 what they said of sspx is not just that they're going to excommunicate these people who have

00:39:50.020 dedicated their entire lives faithfully to the church over fairly minor differences

00:39:54.080 but that anyone who is like really sincerely we go over the wording that they use in it it's all

00:40:01.680 very bureaucratic because that's the way catholic doctrine works they are also excommunicated from

00:40:07.320 the church like that their sacraments do not count in terms of why they continued even with

00:40:14.440 a catholic rebuke because you were saying why they said that they were listening to the holy spirit

00:40:19.120 through the people of god in germany basically saying that people in germany like this stuff

00:40:24.960 like the average person in in media the elite i mean i'm sure like the devout catholics in germany

00:40:30.940 weren't about this actually i read many reports that they were horrid horribly mortified that

00:40:35.700 this was happening but the priest caste is an elite caste and so they hang out with the elites

00:40:42.180 of the urban monoculture they want to impress the elites of the urban monoculture they do not care

00:40:46.860 because they have been separated from the laity about the laity which is really sad but this is

00:40:52.340 the way i mean it's been forever in catholicism if you go back and you look at like the medieval

00:40:58.020 catholic cardinals they were all these like super rich people who just partied with kings all the

00:41:03.000 time right like they always wanted to be in the culture of the elite and didn't really on average

00:41:09.380 certainly there was the here and there cardinal that actually cared about his parishioners

00:41:15.960 you know i'm so much purer than the common vulgar weak licentious crowd but if you're like a big

00:41:26.380 history like i'm a big people might say i don't know a lot about history i mean a lot of my view

00:41:30.540 of catholicism is shaped by being a big history nerd and whenever a catholic cardinal comes on

00:41:36.460 the scene you're usually about to see somebody get tortured or some horrible case of corruption

00:41:43.820 or something where the lady was having all being completely fleeced or you know

00:41:50.060 know the Vatican being like hey come in I know you've called out corruption come in we'll have

00:41:56.820 a conversation about this the person gets to the Vatican ha ha we lied we're gonna torture you to 0.97

00:42:02.880 death so we're just gonna kill you that's that's what we do and that's what has informed my biased 0.97

00:42:09.220 perception and I'm trying to understand because a lot of Catholics in the comments on the last 0.97

00:42:16.120 they were like well you know catholics are taught that the church is going to become

00:42:19.360 like really corrupt and evil leading up to the end times right and that that's when god's going

00:42:27.980 to come down like that's when we're you know going to have the messianic period and here i am like

00:42:32.580 wait do you think that this is the worst the church has ever been because my gosh i almost

00:42:40.660 and people can tell me if they want to go through this like studying the actual history of the

00:42:47.260 catholic church because it is pretty mortifying like i think that there's this perception that

00:42:53.720 there were like maybe like 150 good years that maybe you go to like the 1950s but by the 1960s

00:43:02.860 the bishopric was so captured that you get 90 votes on the the the vatican ii creepy documents

00:43:11.160 so like i don't think 19 i think you got to go further than 1950s i think you got to go 1920s

00:43:15.860 okay so you go back to the 1920s and then you can maybe say to the 1820s like there was this maybe

00:43:23.340 like 100 year period maybe even a 200 year period where like the church was fine but let's hear a

00:43:32.480 pro-catholic person's perception of catholic history because now that he was excommunicated

00:43:38.640 because he's angry at the modern church but like let's what does he think what he thinks about like

00:43:42.680 catholic history right because i wanted to hear that right like i'm like what do they mean when

00:43:47.640 they say they want to go back to like the old way of doing things yeah thinking of like this short

00:43:52.220 window that i as somebody was like you know i've listened to a lot of like early catholic history

00:43:59.240 all the early, you know, popes who always had their mistresses and were giving out corrupt 0.70

00:44:03.900 favor to the kids they'd had with prostitutes. And like, I'm like, what was he thinking of? 0.66

00:44:09.100 So let's go over this. And this is Archbishop Carla Maria Vago. So he was a very big deal.

00:44:16.240 So he served as the Secretary General of Vatican City. He served as the Apostolic Numio. This is

00:44:22.060 the pope's diplomatic ambassador he was a very big deal in catholicism right so yes he's turned

00:44:29.760 against but he's one of these guys who's like we need to go back to the way we used to do things

00:44:36.520 all right so he said and i think this is in relation to the sspx people being condemned

00:44:45.260 He said, from the early 9th century, the popes preached, organized, and sometimes personally led military excursions to repel the Islamic invasions of Christendom.

00:44:56.480 From the 11th century, for two and a half centuries, all of the popes created, organized, and levied, and above all, lived the spirit of the crusade. 0.99

00:45:06.480 That is the reconquest of holy lands from infidels from the second half of the 14th century. 0.92

00:45:12.480 Almost all of the popes continued in an ever more tragically operational manner to do everything and more often against the Christian monarchies themselves to thwart the invasion of Christendom. 0.94

00:45:22.300 Oh, sorry. He's saying, oh, he's still saying it's good here. 0.95

00:45:24.640 Just the invasion of Christendom by Ottoman Islam, which nevertheless reached Buddha and threatened Vienna no fewer than two times. 0.95

00:45:32.420 One can say that the crusading activity was the primary political activity of popes in the late medieval and modern centuries up to the first half of the 18th century. 0.68

00:45:41.820 It suffices to name above all the Blessed Urban II and the Counts of Cotillian, Innocent III of the Counts of Singal, Cotillius III, Borgia, Pius II, Piccolomini, Leo X de' Medici, St. Pius V, Griselli, the Blessed Innocent XI, Odici, Pope's Blessed and Crusaded Saints.

00:46:05.320 Just in case you are wondering, oh, this list, does this include the type of people that Malcolm is talking about?

00:46:11.820 We've got Calais, nephew of an early Abersia, heavily got into this position through corruption and nepotism.

00:46:20.340 We've got Pius II, who did have illegitimate children and also wrote erotic literature. 0.95

00:46:27.060 The 10th, by the way, this guy, oh, I love my erotic literature pope.

00:46:31.540 We have a problem with erotic literature, right? 0.91

00:46:33.560 But, like, to act like these people were these great, magnificent totem pole of Catholicism shows that Catholics somehow are able to completely overlook evil and corruption. 0.89

00:46:48.560 Leo X, who is the son of Leonzo the Magnificent, famously worldly and extravagant, he reportedly said,

00:46:55.620 God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it.

00:46:59.120 And he was well known for bribery and all that nonsense.

00:47:02.480 but the point being is even when they point out the best of what they think the papacy is

00:47:10.160 anyone else in history looking at this would have been like this is horrifyingly corrupt also as a

00:47:16.760 side note one of the things that's disappointed me the most in some of the catholic response to 0.88

00:47:20.980 our episode on sspx being excommunicated are the catholics who have reached out to us and said 0.52

00:47:27.360 well actually sspx is an evil cult that has all these evil beliefs and they're not i'm like no

00:47:34.140 i know i know sspx sorry no no no no no no no no no no no no that doesn't make me think 0.80

00:47:42.500 oh actually catholicism is still good that reminds me that catholics will turn their back on

00:47:49.320 faithful people trying to do their best to serve god under catholic teaching and will burn them at

00:47:56.460 the stake the moment the moment the pope can in his corrupt whatever is going on right now

00:48:04.100 think that they can get some sort of advantage after that and that the average catholic lay

00:48:07.980 person will be like oh yeah spspx now because the pope told me to and i don't think for myself

00:48:14.640 i don't look into things myself and this is me defending to you a catholic an organization

00:48:22.120 that would be much more likely

00:48:24.040 because the main Catholic church has become so ecumenical

00:48:27.100 that they can't even really throw people out anymore

00:48:29.760 because everyone's technically under God now, right?

00:48:32.560 Everyone's technically, even the techno-Puritans. 0.84

00:48:35.340 I want a version of Catholicism that can tell me,

00:48:38.580 no, Malcolm, you're wrong, okay? 0.51

00:48:41.600 I am okay with that. 1.00

00:48:42.900 And I think that's one reason Catholics started to listen to this show 0.71

00:48:45.820 is because everybody wants somebody who actually believes something. 0.87

00:48:50.120 Who's not just going to go out there and say,

00:48:52.120 whatever like i prefer a person i can disagree with to their face and who's not going to tell me

00:48:59.200 oh well everyone's secretly right everyone's secretly whatever and to throw out sspx this

00:49:05.140 group that would condemn me would say that i'm like a demon worshiper it's just rich to me by

00:49:10.760 the way for this period of your like how bad were the popes really during this middle medieval

00:49:14.940 period we got alexander the sixth robrigo bergia who fathered multiple illegitimate children with

00:49:21.740 mistresses have innocent the eight again illegitimate children that was 1485 julius

00:49:29.780 the second 1500s again illegitimate children paul the third illegitimate children and then if you

00:49:36.540 go before that the popes just become like comically evil like you have the cadaver synod

00:49:42.520 which we've gone over in other things but yeah even in the 1917 the office of the crusade still

00:49:49.080 existed in the vatican they had an office of the crusade up until 1917 that's wild i wonder what

00:49:55.400 they were up to since the crusades ended for all those all those years today we have a pope who

00:50:03.280 goes to endorse the invasion of our lands our property our customs often our lives shattered 0.73

00:50:08.900 by the bestial violence of these unpunished invaders who know they can do anything because 0.75

00:50:14.280 they are protected by those who should condemn and repel them from john paul ii onwards and here 0.79

00:50:19.940 i'll do a video of the pope you know blessing migrants

00:50:22.640 they've done multiple things and you need to accept as many migrants as possible now the bible

00:50:33.740 says you should accept people traveling through your lands not settling in your lands okay um from

00:50:40.100 pope paul ii onwards was perhaps a partial exemption for benedict the 16th the popes

00:50:46.560 have preached with all their might was a unique insistence in their kind with an exceptional

00:50:51.300 crescendo and was guaranteed operational management through ngos the islamic invasion 0.92

00:50:56.160 of once christian europe and you could be like look it's not a straight-up invasion they want 0.65

00:51:02.340 in some areas in the majority for sharia law to eventually be the law of the land that is an

00:51:08.720 islamic law they are having kids at a higher rate than the native population now it may not be as 0.66

00:51:14.600 high as many people think but it's still higher than the native population which means eventually 0.96

00:51:18.760 in these democratic states they will be islamic republics at least under sharia law if they can 0.54

00:51:24.880 vote the way that they want right you can say oh i don't know if this is invasion i don't know 0.98

00:51:30.460 it's it's still something like worth being mad about if you are the central catholic institution

00:51:37.800 and want to maintain a Catholic way of life

00:51:39.900 within these historically Catholic countries.

00:51:41.960 To have no pushback on this,

00:51:44.700 but instead have commandments against pushback

00:51:48.020 by your followers,

00:51:49.420 you have to say,

00:51:50.320 what's this level of institutional capture

00:51:52.640 when you consider the actual history of the papistry

00:51:55.680 in this lens here?

00:51:57.800 And these popes did participate in these crusades.

00:51:59.600 I did just look up, by the way,

00:52:01.420 what happened to the office of the crusade

00:52:04.020 and what they were up to after the crusades.

00:52:05.840 but basically they they existed because people like kings would give money for the crusades and

00:52:11.240 they existed the office of the crusade existed to make sure the crusade money went to the crusade

00:52:16.380 efforts and then later it hung around because they also started making sure that indulgences money

00:52:22.240 went toward the prayers to get people out of purgatory right like you want to make sure

00:52:26.840 that when you buy the you know it's not like our social security system where you're we're just

00:52:33.080 paying boomers like this was like peru's social security system where you deposit the money into

00:52:37.700 an account and you can see it because it goes to you and so in this case when you're praying for 0.66

00:52:41.960 your dead grandma to get through purgatory faster or like paying indulgences for someone else to

00:52:47.020 pray for it it was actually going to her because the office of the crusade existed which is actually

00:52:51.740 kind of nice i appreciate that and later it was it was it was there just to make sure taxes went

00:52:55.800 where they were supposed to go but then they were like you know what we don't need this anymore

00:52:59.700 what how bad a would it be if we had a crusader pope come in i think a lot of probably they would

00:53:06.260 have to reopen the office of the crusade to make sure all the money went to the right i think i

00:53:10.760 think a lot of people would convert into a lot of very high fertility people would

00:53:15.220 i mean militant catholicism yeah that would i don't know people seem to really not want to fight

00:53:22.540 anymore so probably not also the crusades even sucked during the crusades i was just listening

00:53:31.100 to a podcast slash youtube video about the experience of crusaders and how many of them

00:53:40.060 came back with i mean they didn't have ptsd but came back with ptsd symptoms how many of them

00:53:44.960 died of like gangrene and dysentery well before they could actually get somewhere to even fight

00:53:48.940 for something meaningful and how it was just it was it wasn't great for everyone i think it's a

00:53:54.860 little romanticized he goes on to say who are the true schismatics as i have said other times

00:54:01.600 these are the days of the definitive choice between the master and the unfaithful servant

00:54:05.960 this is the only true criterion of schism everyone chooses whether they want to or not

00:54:11.140 whether to stand with god who never changes or with the dogmatic spiritual and liturgical

00:54:16.580 relativism of a conciliar liberalism and socialism of the last 65 years i do not reconcile i remain

00:54:24.700 faithful to the popes who saved our christian europe and faith and civilization for 10 centuries

00:54:30.940 as i remain faithful in all things to the church in its first 19th century i do not reconcile

00:54:38.700 and catholics have we may do another episode if people want to see because this could also be an

00:54:43.740 interesting episode how could you legitimately because the pope chooses the cardinals and the

00:54:48.300 cardinals choose the pope we're sort of at a point in the cycle where it's very hard to break out

00:54:54.420 unless we can trick the socialist to elect a black pope but we just tried that in the last election

00:55:02.580 and it didn't really work because that could have gotten us out of this and if we're not seeing that

00:55:08.280 basically no matter what we do in terms of birth rates can we recapture a form of catholicism when

00:55:13.000 i say we i see the catholics who do not want this as our genuine allies in this journey right like

00:55:21.100 they are a hundred percent without reservation whatever reservations i have about the vatican

00:55:25.120 i do not have about them okay yeah i i see them as holistically i want to fight for them i want

00:55:32.320 to fight for whatever they want for the future of the church how do you realistically make this

00:55:36.700 happen right and it might be my protestant mind that i'm not like we'll just wait it out eventually

00:55:42.380 because the church has almost never not been corrupt it's it's it's that's the thing about

00:55:47.400 like the history of the church it's almost always been horrifyingly corrupt except for a few

00:55:54.180 centuries with that being the case how do we fix that right how do we create a and i believe the

00:56:02.700 strain of catholicism that is very conservative today if they recreated the church bureaucracy

00:56:10.020 they could create a non-corrupt devout version of catholicism i believe that that is protestant

00:56:17.580 a true that is not just a warrior version of catholicism but a pure version of catholicism

00:56:24.080 and maintain it with fidelity but to do that now there's been periods throughout history where

00:56:28.800 we've had multiple popes but by the way how that period ended they created a council in the vatican

00:56:34.900 to annul the two other popes and then to make another guy pope right and then the other guy

00:56:41.040 who they made popes they immediately came and said nope popes can overrule councils and they're

00:56:46.480 like but we just gave you this power and he's like i'm sorry i make all the rules now so like

00:56:51.340 immediately even in that moment you've got you've got this creepy like corruption going on and then

00:56:55.440 this this lack of i i think it was it was it was really slimy everything that happened during that

00:57:01.280 period but like you can do it but you've got to do it find some way to do it by the book so like

00:57:06.980 let's go into the book how could you you basically just need to get a number of cardinals on your

00:57:13.200 side i think is really what you need you need to get a number of cardinals on your side and

00:57:16.680 historically basically need to capture the vatican so if you can capture the vatican

00:57:20.720 like literally bar the progressives from entering and annul them with some group of cardinals i

00:57:26.520 think you could legally get away with this with maintaining i don't know some group of catholics

00:57:32.540 has to figure this out because if they are excommunicating people as mild as sspx yet

00:57:38.220 allowing this to continue to grow and metastasize as recent as like the 2020s

00:57:44.580 i don't i don't know how you're going to recapture things i don't know like how that's realistic at

00:57:51.320 this point? I don't know if there's going to be any recapturing. The church, as it is centrally

00:57:57.840 managed now, benefits from attrition among members because it gets money every time a convent or

00:58:03.580 school is sold, for example. And it's quite entrenched, as you pointed out. Just from a

00:58:08.860 governance structure perspective, there is, as you say, no really breaking through it. My hope is

00:58:13.780 that with SSPX, which, look, after this excommunication, people have shown videos,

00:58:19.640 posted videos online of just mass after mass filling on Sundays with different SSPX churches

00:58:26.340 and parishes. They're doing fine. They're doing really well. And I think there's been even an

00:58:32.260 out swelling of support, up swelling of report. How do we swell? Whatever. There's been a rise.

00:58:37.720 As there should be. Yes, as there 100% should be. So what I could see happening over time is

00:58:43.660 this offshoot, increasing so, offshoot of the church kind of just starting to build its own

00:58:51.580 centrally managed governance that eventually becomes a new papacy. It's okay, look,

00:58:57.060 they had to do what they had to do. And then, you know, with time, though, it's going to take a lot

00:59:02.700 of time, so no one should hold their breath. The old one will fall, but it's going to destroy

00:59:07.480 everything as it goes, as it should, because as you pointed out, you kind of have to start fresh

00:59:12.320 anyway that there's been too much baggage entrenchment rot cancerous growth whatever

00:59:18.480 you want to say within the old institution so why bother yeah i mean you would basically

00:59:25.220 actually i i can see how you do this if you have a revolution in italy that takes control of the

00:59:30.480 government and you can use that to take control of the vatican and control who can enter and leave

00:59:33.880 there's not going to be a revolution in italy they're too hot and tired they're so true well

00:59:39.420 and they're you know italians and i'm gonna be i have somebody who lived in italy for a year 0.84

00:59:43.920 they're incredibly lazy people they don't expect a revolution anytime soon i mean france could have

00:59:50.520 a revolution and then i don't know conquer italy or something that's that's probably more likely

00:59:54.360 they love revolutioning in france but it usually doesn't go well so you know that's the other

00:59:58.820 problem with with you know it's not as as directed and i do want to make my position on

01:00:04.160 consulatism like clear i'm mortified by what the vatican has come to represent i am mortified by

01:00:11.220 the vast majority of catholic history and i'm going to be honest but that doesn't mean that

01:00:15.380 i don't think the catholics i know today could create a really pure and great institution i know

01:00:23.900 a great number of really devout moral catholics today who would not repeat the grossnesses of

01:00:34.000 indulgences and like like even when you were talking about like paying for other people to

01:00:37.780 pray for you i was like oh that is so gross that that was ever in the theology why would you

01:00:45.220 so gross wasn't the best i mean i could see how it could happen and come from a

01:00:55.920 good place right like people start really thinking purgatory is a thing even though i

01:01:02.960 don't remember seeing any biblical basis for it but look it's just everyone starts thinking and

01:01:07.280 it's like this mass delusion and everyone starts getting really worried about it and they're like

01:01:10.720 how do i get over this they're like well you just got to pray for pray for hours and hours and people

01:01:15.200 admittedly have jobs and things they have to do and they can't and they're not experts so they

01:01:19.300 want to they want to throw money at the problem and so someone shows up and they're like well you

01:01:24.980 can throw money at me like and then somebody says you guys should stop this it's a little corrupt 0.79

01:01:29.400 the way you're doing it and then they torture and kill them which is the way it often went

01:01:33.980 for hundreds of years which is hard to read about when you're reading history and you remember that

01:01:39.200 these are real people who are devout catholics who wanted the church to be better right you know

01:01:44.580 yeah it's hard it's hard but i think that something good can be made and i i just like

01:01:52.580 seriously catholics in in the discord or in the comments how do you actually fix this if

01:01:57.980 the pope controls the cardinals and the cardinals control the pope and they've had control of this

01:02:03.100 system for about a century at this point at least half a century

01:02:07.520 well here's what i'm hearing from people on the ground though

01:02:14.520 at the parish level they have thriving communities they have fantastic

01:02:19.160 they do there's there's lots of local yeah they're like look this doesn't affect me i don't care

01:02:25.820 like it's the the people who are actually doing catholicism who aren't the ones in their ivory

01:02:32.480 towers are doing catholicism and in the end they're sometimes people look the other way i

01:02:38.540 mean sspx is different i think in that they're being very explicit about their choice to not

01:02:45.620 adopt all elements of vatican ii for example i think that maybe in practice there are a lot of

01:02:51.700 this is why catholics have such a high deconversion rate um and and such a low birth rate

01:02:57.640 is it's this innate trust in institutions that they know are corrupted so they send their kids

01:03:04.540 to catholic school and then the catholic school ends up upstream of that being totally woke which

01:03:11.600 we've seen a lot of catholic schools becoming they tell their kids oh well you can trust the

01:03:17.260 you know local catholic priest or whatever when you move to a no city and then this priest has

01:03:22.540 some goal or worse because we have seen this happen among our fans who are in catholic communities

01:03:28.620 is some based local priest becomes super popular and then the vatican switches them out because

01:03:34.760 they were becoming too popular and they were like oh this isn't exactly what we want being taught

01:03:38.640 here so you can't even like trust your local church really and then when you outsource that

01:03:44.040 to your children's moral framework that they're building as they develop as an individual it's

01:03:50.300 really dangerous i mean yes you can jury rig a system together to make it work but i think it's

01:03:56.360 a bit like the people when it came to like public schools they're like all this woke stuff doesn't

01:04:00.880 really bother me and then 10 years later it's like oh my god i can't believe this was in my

01:04:05.100 local school when you have over 90 support of trans within this catholic council when you have

01:04:11.340 the bdsm stuff on catholic day i think you're seeing a level of well no this is like oh my 0.92

01:04:17.280 kids will go to catholic day and it'll be fine it'll be cool it won't be a place where they

01:04:22.120 will be incepted into these other communities and it's like no now catholic day is the route

01:04:28.900 to that for the next generation and i think that it is this being okay with the institutions being

01:04:36.140 this captured and just being like it won't affect me it's really like the i see this in protestant

01:04:41.520 communities sometimes as well where i see the very protestant parent and they're like i'll just raise

01:04:45.620 my kids the way i was raised and i stayed a christian and i was like was it lit did you when

01:04:50.440 was the first time you met somebody who wasn't a christian you know like they're going into a

01:04:54.900 school system that is designed from the ground up to deconvert them right like you can't just do it 0.93

01:05:00.180 the way you did it a generation ago and i think that that's why we're seeing these high rates of 0.99

01:05:04.360 deconversion among sort of and a lot of catholics are smart they know like they can't do these 0.99

01:05:09.420 systems but it just raises the cost for them so much to live that lifestyle when if you go to the 0.99

01:05:17.060 mormon communities they got even though their institutions are slightly captured they're going

01:05:21.760 to have some level of protection at their at the the from the ground up in these communities and 0.51

01:05:27.780 the castle just don't have this anymore and i think it's because they just immediately were

01:05:31.920 like i don't even need to win these battles these battles aren't important they're existential

01:05:36.620 these battles are existential and i mean i think the reality of this Catholicism is probably just

01:05:42.760 going to either going to have to grow from these movements that are that you know the Vatican's

01:05:47.900 going to get panicked they'll start excommunicating more people and groups like SPSX because i see

01:05:52.020 what the Catholics do they go oh well this other bishop who i followed said the SSPX

01:05:57.340 excommunication didn't count because they didn't use the proper procedures a very catholic thing

01:06:02.600 and so we don't we we can pretend like they didn't happen and i think that that's sort of

01:06:08.400 what's happening they're just going along and be like well we're pretending that the institutions

01:06:12.300 aren't this captured no no no no no as a protestant as a catholic you can actually do that

01:06:18.980 they've been doing this for centuries that's how they're gonna wipe vatican ii off they're gonna

01:06:22.580 to be like oh they forgot to do this procedural thing or it wasn't done in this way when it was

01:06:27.620 done this way at the first council because they didn't go in this order or they weren't sitting

01:06:31.780 on this chair and look if that's what it takes though i'm happy for that to be what it is if

01:06:38.820 that's look it we just need it gone i don't care how and if it just people are like oh never mind

01:06:46.420 like take backsies yeah i would be happy let's do that i just don't see that happening anytime soon

01:06:55.040 yeah well i i love this guy's vision let's get a warrior let's get a crusader pope back

01:07:00.420 i'd have to i'd have to be like like we want to become like like the that would be so cool to

01:07:08.960 to have within the alliance and a catholic group recreated around crusader aesthetics and lifestyle

01:07:16.840 would also be pretty cool yeah i could see that being but i i feel like there was something that

01:07:24.940 happened with islam where there was this short period where they were like everyone you should

01:07:30.100 be on your own personal jihad but they just took the things out of it like oh man i'm on a weight 0.98

01:07:35.540 loss jihad i'm on a study jihad no no this was the thing where they lied to white people because 1.00

01:07:40.900 white women were stupid and they kept saying when we say jihad we don't mean kill you all we mean 1.00

01:07:47.060 it's like a weight loss thing it's like a no the vast majority of muslims understand what that 1.00

01:07:52.280 means it's like when they started to tell people well technically there's a way that like isha 0.99

01:07:56.900 wasn't six and then nine at consummation six at marriage nine at consummation because if you look

01:08:02.360 at it here here and here and then i i learned that all conservative muslims believe that this 0.57

01:08:07.440 is just like a few weird progressive european muslims who don't believe this but if you're

01:08:11.120 talking about like your average conservative council in like pakistan they believe that 0.97

01:08:14.000 it's you don't don't get fooled by that and that what we can fool them by that we when we say

01:08:18.820 crusade we don't mean crusade we mean like your personal weight loss journey it's a it's a it's

01:08:27.140 the same way that simone and i dress like like puritan like settlers and stuff like that this

01:08:32.100 group could dress like old crusader stuff you know yeah as if the catholic church needed better

01:08:37.600 aesthetics though i'm so into all of it it's it's all good yeah still though i yeah i don't know

01:08:43.140 yeah i've never seen such a divide between my faith in humans individual catholic yeah the lay

01:08:51.580 people yeah versus my my lack of faith and not in like the priest level or the nun level every

01:08:58.680 priest and nun i've met incredible person actually every deacon i've met really awesome too it's i

01:09:06.120 it's just i'm gonna push something's happening somewhere every priest i have met in in catholicism

01:09:11.860 has been an incredible person but they have all also been very coded urban monoculture like

01:09:19.280 behind the things that they're saying it's a clear but i want to be accepted and thought of

01:09:25.520 as the cultural elite there is no edginess there is no that i need to like know that i can trust

01:09:32.200 somebody right like that this is like culturally for me i need to see a little bit of that edge

01:09:36.480 i need to see a little bit of that dark mimi i need to see a little bit like hey look i don't

01:09:41.760 crusade our whole performative vice thing is that i think is a techno puritan thing and and something

01:09:47.480 i don't think it is like this guy who was kicked out of the catholic church and was like a thing

01:09:51.040 for the he's got this energy he's talking about crusader popes if i but i've never seen any of

01:09:56.760 the catholic priests that i've talked to have that they always have that very like buttoned up

01:10:01.440 sort of posh mckenzie middle management vibe mckenzie middle ouch you know what i'm talking

01:10:07.440 about i do but ouch yeah uh i i don't know anyway i wish them all the best management vibe is to me

01:10:18.380 like like my my vibes like the cucumber to a cat again like i see that i'm like

01:10:22.820 what are you doing here well it's just a cool opportunity you have the same response to

01:10:31.400 the mormon pod person phenomenon as you put it so stand take the drug man prove it to us okay

01:10:38.100 open the door it is so much better there's no fear or pain it's beautiful and you

01:10:50.720 will be beautiful no problems or worries we want you 0.99

01:10:57.620 no pain stan we're gonna come in here and i'll show you some fucking pain 0.98

01:11:04.620 no i don't i i find it scary okay i'm like malcolm no you have a strong visceral reaction to it 0.98

01:11:15.200 don't it's a little yeah okay i do have a visceral reaction yes you do but i don't get that from all

01:11:20.360 more i don't get that from kevin dolan well no definitely not but i do get it from a lot of the

01:11:25.560 high level church people in the mormon community i don't know and mormon influencers well mormon

01:11:33.300 influencer look an influencer is its own type of pod person they have their own pod person vibe

01:11:38.900 which is a little different but and you and you you also have a cat meets cucumber reaction to 0.73

01:11:46.240 to many things that orthodox jews do and the reforms choose look you just you 0.59

01:11:51.540 though yeah they're mysticism stuff

01:11:54.380 yes so again you know i just i'm saying this for the people who are always like oh you always

01:12:16.460 single out catholics oh my yeah you can't stop thinking about catholics look people know like

01:12:23.220 my thoughts on kabbalism are at probably more severe than my thoughts on catholicism oh yeah

01:12:29.020 i just yeah they're definitely more severe it's just that if you're not an orthodox jew

01:12:34.220 you don't understand why what i'm saying about kabbalism is so offensive oh dear and if you're 0.96

01:12:40.700 you know but mormons i think they largely know about the whole pod person thing

01:12:44.620 mormons are aware of that are they i think so yeah yes yes actually i know so i mean they know

01:12:52.660 that for the same reason that they know that mlms are an issue in the community and all these but i

01:12:56.780 mean i say what i mean and as i said with simone we know so many catholics that are awesome and

01:13:02.920 would be such great members of like this wider community and they're just like well don't care

01:13:10.160 about what the people at the top say and it's like but that ends up affecting your children

01:13:15.760 and our ability because if you ever become super effective like spsx has sspx has it sounds like a

01:13:23.260 skateboarding company by the way like sspx has which is cool it's rad okay if you ever become

01:13:28.840 super effective like your portion of the catholic movement you could just get excommunicated right

01:13:33.760 like that's messed up and i guess what we're going to see going forward is does that matter

01:13:37.760 and so far it appears it doesn't and when we see an excommunication from the pope no longer

01:13:44.040 mattering and everyone just being like uh to the pope i think that is where the the beginnings of

01:13:53.660 a real revolution come from and where we might see a positive catholic movement and i think that the

01:13:59.700 people who are now going to sspx meetings who are going to their churches who are going to their

01:14:05.480 masses in response to what the pope did you know it's so great to see yeah that forces the popes

01:14:12.060 that that is how you actually create change that's how you force the pope to the negotiation table

01:14:17.880 right that is probably the only real because you show that what the pope says no longer matters to

01:14:25.880 average catholics when he is excommunicating people for their devoutness while leaving the

01:14:33.740 rest of this stuff on the table yeah if it was excommunications on both sides i'd be fine but

01:14:39.220 it's not which shows who's secretly in control of everything he's basically just like don't say this

01:14:47.500 too loudly well there you have it i'm sure we will find more things to cover going forward

01:14:57.460 no i mean i think that these two topics are needed back to back because they are a mirror of each

01:15:03.900 other oh right right so on the one hand you have these very devout people who are getting

01:15:09.120 excommunicated on the other hand you have the branches that have not even been been admonished

01:15:17.340 for trying to introduce a series of policies it seems incredibly antithetical to even the current

01:15:24.800 stance of the church though the fact that these were i mean it almost feels like a lot of this

01:15:31.120 was denied merely because they wanted to administer the church like via this extra layer of governance

01:15:37.040 and cover and control the finances and stuff i feel like that seems to be a bigger driver of

01:15:41.800 the vatican saying no you can't do this and all the other stuff which is very interesting yeah and

01:15:46.880 i will note here that like i may have been brainwashed as well like on my thoughts about

01:15:51.540 medieval catholics if you go to st andrews i went to st andrews for my university every day walking

01:15:55.640 to my philosophy class you have to walk around a spot on the ground because there's a a thing

01:16:00.700 there because the catholic church burnt a very devout christian man alive very pious man alive

01:16:07.740 a teenager actually i think because he called for reforms right three he called them to be less

01:16:14.480 corrupt and so that's very like in my head the thought of a teenager burning alive because of

01:16:20.800 the corrupt church and i decided to go to ai just to double check i was getting this right and yep 1.00

01:16:26.080 burned a kid alive because he was upset about indulgences fuck it i don't gosh man maybe you 0.99

01:16:36.420 guys are okay with i'm not okay with this i'm not okay with i'm not like am i not allowed to be like 0.99

01:16:41.600 this is evil and and it's something that is hard for me to not think about and it's not that

01:16:48.200 protestants didn't do like corrupt things but the iterations of protestantism that were corrupt and

01:16:54.120 evil modern protestants denounce right whereas the iterations of the church it's that had the

01:17:02.560 blessing of god because it's a it's a contiguous line which makes it harder for me to just be like

01:17:08.160 but like i can say what they did was bad and i'm not part of that denomination of protestantism

01:17:14.740 because i think that denomination was bad and corrupt and that's not good and so we had to

01:17:19.540 reform that, where this reform never really happened in the church. Yeah. Anyway, love you,

01:17:25.380 Simone. I love you too. This is going to focus on the situation that happened in Germany. Are you

01:17:36.280 going to talk about the alcoholics rehab center turned pedo bear rehab center? I literally know

01:17:46.940 nothing about that the island okay maybe i'll bring that up later because it's amazing truly

01:17:53.460 well tell me a bit about it so i know whether or not i need to mention it in the intro

01:17:57.160 oh okay there was this man called father gerald fitzgerald which great name founded what was

01:18:05.180 called the servants of the paraclete to help problem priests and you know this is a reasonable

01:18:12.580 man. He knows that some priests are alcoholics. So he basically tried to create an alcoholic

01:18:18.140 rehab center for Catholic priests who really struggled. And then he started getting set

01:18:25.580 priests that had other problems, problems involving their interests in children. Okay,

01:18:32.400 continue. The youthful. And yeah, so as much as he had actually a decent amount of success

01:18:37.460 with the alcoholics he he did not have so much success dealing with different types of disorders

01:18:45.040 points Simone he basically gave up on ever trying to rehab the the priests that came to him that

01:18:50.800 weren't suffering from alcoholism and was like you know what we should do we should send them

01:18:54.840 to an island and just just keep them there just let them stay there and they can just live there

01:19:02.380 for the rest of their lives no one's going to hurt them he proposed it was an island in the

01:19:06.780 caribbean this was in 1965 he he said it's going to cost about 50 000 he purchased it even for that

01:19:14.460 amount and he wanted to use it to isolate priests who got accused of sexual that sounds like a

01:19:20.060 really good idea actually you know there's an island that's kind of known for sheltering

01:19:25.840 yes but if you just put them on an island without children i know that was a a dramatically more

01:19:32.800 ethical solution than what the church chose i'm just saying there is a there's for my knowledge

01:19:37.880 an unoccupied island in the caribbean do you want to do the jeffrey epstein island for well how

01:19:43.980 perfect would that be i'm just saying it would be it would be perfect unfortunately no priests were

01:19:48.820 actually sent to the island that was purchased purchased by father christ gerald it just didn't

01:19:53.780 happen and church authorities sort of forced him to sell it so the the island doesn't even belong

01:20:01.880 that's really messed up that they had a place where they could have sent them yeah they could

01:20:07.740 have a nice island in the caribbean like this not even bad just like no whatever happens we have to

01:20:13.560 keep grieving children that is the one thing that our religion cannot live without well that he went

01:20:19.660 so far like this was an experienced person they tried everything else first like we're going to

01:20:22.960 try to rehab them he and he this was a man who had a track record of bringing people back from

01:20:27.700 pretty serious alcoholism but he he literally his quote in describing them was quote irredeemable

01:20:34.280 completely incorrigible they just you couldn't you couldn't fix them he just threw up his hands

01:20:41.220 i just love that like there was a priest he tried to fix them and he's like no send them to the

01:20:47.240 island put them on the box yeah anyway i didn't realize you weren't going to cover that i just

01:20:52.420 figured that that was like connected to all this but i guess this is just so much bigger than did

01:20:56.540 you do some research and see how big it is no no i just i just looked up that because i thought that

01:21:02.540 that like okay i'll get started yeah hello whoa what is happening titan

01:21:10.980 yeah yeah

01:21:16.080 Yeah, to watch the movie, I'll tell you it's a man.

01:21:19.140 Oh, yeah?

01:21:20.640 Yeah.

01:21:23.700 Titan, are you watching the movie?

01:21:25.860 No, Daddy.

01:21:28.340 No, do not break that.

01:21:30.520 Yeah.

01:21:33.040 Whoa.

01:21:33.720 Whoa.

01:21:35.120 And he made those while he was making the wars.

01:21:46.080 Hey Toasty, did you build this? 0.56

01:21:54.260 Did you build this?

01:21:55.440 I didn't build it planned.

01:21:57.820 No!

Based Camp - July 07, 2026

BDSM + Catholicism： It Almost Happened

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