Based Camp - Cottagecore Feminist to Tradwife Pipeline

00:00:00.000 Well, today we're talking about the difference between, because there's something I've been

00:00:05.020 reflecting on a lot. Your classic, like San Francisco, Manhattan feminist, and your classic

00:00:11.360 trad wife is really not that far. And a lot of people have been saying, oh, I want to, you know,

00:00:17.720 convert this woman to become a, like a good trad wife or whatever. And yet what you'll see 0.96

00:00:25.440 is that many, quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wives. 1.00

00:00:31.400 I feel unbelievably betrayed by feminism. I was constantly fed this idea that women can do 0.99

00:00:39.460 everything. We don't really need men. I kind of want to go back to some of those, some of those

00:00:46.220 teachers and coaches and say, what hell did you mean by that? Because women can't do it all. We can't. 1.00

00:00:55.440 I sacrificed my life for my career and regret every minute of it. One woman's raw confession

00:01:03.120 after finding herself childless and lost at 40. What happened? He lied about going to the airport.

00:01:12.080 And? And I said, I hope he dies in a car explosion. Lemon life is about minimizing regrets. What I'm 1.00

00:01:19.340 trying to say is you're young and you still haven't blown it completely. You're choosing

00:01:26.680 to say what you're a good guy. That is less cliched. I can do it. I can have an all.

00:01:34.700 Many, quote unquote, like Manhattan feminists want to be trad wives, even the progressive ones. 1.00

00:01:41.640 And the things that they do in their spare time, the things that they associate with

00:01:47.240 aesthetically, the things that they even think about aspirationally are really, really in line

00:01:54.500 with trad wife values. And that getting them onto a trad wife tract is about reframing those things 1.00

00:02:03.480 and getting them to overcome a few key barriers that are difficult for them in terms of self,

00:02:10.360 like internalization, but internalization about the world and not about changing their actual desires.

00:02:17.400 And so an example I would use of this, you know, is for example, somebody's like, oh, come on,

00:02:22.540 trad wives are nothing like San Francisco wives. You know, they like making bread. And I was like, 0.99

00:02:27.160 have you heard about like the sourdough fad in San Francisco? Like all of the women, Simone, 1.00

00:02:31.220 for example, you were like a hardcore SF feminist, right? Would you say? 1.00

00:02:36.060 I don't know if I ever identified as a feminist, but yeah, I mean, like I grew up

00:02:39.740 in the area. You wanted to keep your last name after that.

00:02:43.000 Yeah, I was hyper progressive. So whatever that means.

00:02:47.220 Okay. But you made your own bread in your spare time.

00:02:51.620 I did.

00:02:52.520 You would make pastries for events. What was it like? Cupcakes and stuff like that.

00:02:58.860 I did. Yeah.

00:02:59.800 Okay. You would, you had friends at least who crocheted and created other sorts of.

00:03:05.220 Oh yeah. And all my friends that I, many of my friends also, I, I enjoyed wearing

00:03:09.920 vintage 1950s dresses with petticoats as my friends. Yeah.

00:03:16.140 Or historic cosplay, which is what, what would you call trad wife outfits or what you're wearing now? 0.98

00:03:21.640 I mean, yeah, that is interesting. The, I mean, there was this period where you, and I, I dressed

00:03:30.900 very professionally when I was shortly after I met you. And that was because we were both trying to

00:03:35.260 build our careers and that was the right thing to do. But when you met me, I dressed more like a trad

00:03:41.100 wife. Sometimes, sometimes I also dress like a...

00:03:44.480 Yeah, but you, you, you, people would have thought it was quirky. It was like a bows in your hair

00:03:48.220 and like, like sundresses and like, it was San Francisco. But when I recontextualized, like,

00:03:55.800 yeah, but it was also very trad wife. When I say bows, I mean, large bows, like foot long bows in her 1.00

00:04:03.280 hair.

00:04:03.600 Hyper, hyper feminine. Yeah. And yeah, now, now I'm back to dressing like I dressed before I met you in 0.98

00:04:14.280 terms of like cost, like cottage core costumes every day. So that's interesting.

00:04:19.360 Even things like chickens. Okay. So do you remember the, the thing at that party where like

00:04:24.840 the women were talking about this new fad were like, you would have to kill your own chicken 1.00

00:04:29.640 before eating it to learn what it was like to have to kill an animal that you had eaten?

00:04:34.080 Um, and so they would like buy and raise chickens and like, obviously some like very high status

00:04:39.100 but you could even eat the chickens. Oh my God. And you had to kill them and be okay with that.

00:04:46.420 Yeah. Even the hunting was a weird thing. It was like, well, you know, if I'm going to eat meat, 0.97

00:04:51.860 I need to be conscientious about killing it. So like I go out and I go on hunting trips every

00:04:56.120 other week or something. It's like, what? And I think that there is this, I don't want to say like

00:05:00.880 on both sides of the dehumanization of the other to the extent that they can't see how close they are.

00:05:07.780 How similar they are. You know, it reminds me, even when it comes to things like sort of mental

00:05:12.400 health and peace of mind, that one episode in which Ron Swanson has, has been roped into a

00:05:19.180 meditation class. Yeah. And everyone else is like sitting there, like struggling to, you know,

00:05:24.840 concentrate. And he's like, I don't know what they were. All told we were in there about six hours

00:05:31.000 and no, I was not meditating. I just stood there quietly breathing. My mind was blank.

00:05:38.380 I don't know what the hell these other crackpots are doing. 0.99

00:05:41.460 Yeah. It's that weird horseshoe. Yeah. 0.95

00:05:45.720 But I wonder, I mean, so I have a few big takeaways from this. One is I think in a large part,

00:05:53.720 the things women want are biologically ingrained in them. I do not think that they are acculturated 1.00

00:06:00.240 to go back to crocheting, you know, whether it's anime baubles or, you know, baby blankets.

00:06:07.860 There is clearly something that's drawing them to this behavior, right? Like yourself,

00:06:13.460 you did all sorts of things I would consider arts and crafts.

00:06:17.400 Yeah. There's very little else I could call it. Like if you did it with my kids, I'd be like,

00:06:23.680 oh, that's so sweet. Look, she's making little like pasting various different color. 1.00

00:06:28.720 Yeah. Like carved pumpkins or holiday wreaths or all sorts of things that like, yeah,

00:06:34.380 trad wife moms would do with their kids, but I would just do it with my friends. 0.67

00:06:37.640 Guys don't do this stuff alone, by the way. Like guys do not like get together with a group of guys

00:06:43.060 and like carve pumpkins in like SF. There might be like some gay groups that do or something,

00:06:48.740 but that's like not like a guy instinct, right? It is fascinating to me that even when they demonize

00:06:55.440 the act of motherhood and femininity, that they still do it. 1.00

00:07:00.660 Uses to engage in this performative femininity. 1.00

00:07:06.400 Yeah.

00:07:07.560 And so the first thing is, there appears to be some sort of a biological instinct here.

00:07:13.060 What do you think is driving it with like the chickens and stuff? Because I do remember like

00:07:20.180 chickens being high status. They were high status to you, even when you were like a feminist. 1.00

00:07:25.020 Yeah. I grew up always wanting to have chickens, especially chickens that like blue eggs.

00:07:28.640 I think maybe a lot of this has to do with that sort of very lesbian cottagecore concept. 1.00

00:07:36.400 Oh, and let's talk about cottagecore. The cottagecore became like a feminist thing. 1.00

00:07:39.920 What is more trad than cottagecore?

00:07:41.600 But like also, I don't know, because like I've come across so many YouTubers who are like,

00:07:46.180 what is more queer than cottagecore? You know, like that it is not necessarily considered to be

00:07:52.360 a trad wife thing. And I think there's weirdly this like kind of, again, full circle thing that's

00:08:00.180 going on. When it comes to like sort of that bucolic farm life cottagecore thing,

00:08:04.700 a lot of people are looking to like, you know, sort of historical women doing stuff in the 0.78

00:08:11.380 countryside. And they were often doing that alone or just in the company of other women.

00:08:16.260 And there, there is something like they weren't doing it in the company of men and they weren't

00:08:22.840 doing it necessarily with their heavy involvement. They were like men were off. I don't know,

00:08:27.840 like John Adams was like putting America together and like they were off fighting wars or doing

00:08:32.880 business or, you know, whatever, whatever it is that they were doing. And so I think that there

00:08:38.520 became this sort of feminist fantasy around self-sufficiency on a farm, sort of running your 1.00

00:08:47.160 own household, having your independent self-sufficient life and feeling really empowered by that. And it

00:08:55.140 could be seen as a very, very married thing. You know, when you look at it through the little house

00:08:59.860 on the prairie lens. Yeah. Or you could think of it as a very sort of like empowered female on her 1.00

00:09:07.340 own lens. If you think about just like Abigail Adams in the absence of John Adams.

00:09:13.620 Yeah, that makes sense. By the way, for people are wondering why the baby's crying so much right

00:09:18.600 now. She probably is sick. Whatever we had last week. If you heard us dying on the podcast

00:09:23.300 or who knows when this episode goes live, but she just needs hugs.

00:09:29.380 She's very fussy, but she won't accept hugs. She just wants to writhe and scream endlessly. 1.00

00:09:35.200 So that's. She's having fun with it. She's having fun. But the other thing that I wanted

00:09:42.620 to comment on here was what this means for dating for a lot of guys, because, you know,

00:09:47.920 I saw this 4chan green text that was, you know, being played on YouTube and everyone was like,

00:09:52.340 oh, this is so fake. And it was of a guy and it was fake, obviously, but like they thought

00:09:57.200 that the concept was fake, that a guy met a feminist and that she secretly wanted to be 1.00

00:10:04.420 a trad wife and that then, you know, she ended up living, they lived together and they ended 0.88

00:10:09.480 up happily ever after. Right. And I was like, but that is what happened to me. Like I met

00:10:15.600 a woman who was a feminist and just through conversations, it was mostly about realizing that 0.93

00:10:22.640 the other side wasn't an evil bugaboo and that she could make choices. The biggest thing that

00:10:28.160 you've always described is realizing that you were allowed to choose those lifestyles.

00:10:33.460 These women love the idea of the cottage core environment on their Pinterest, but to actually 0.99

00:10:40.340 live in it, that's impossible. And it's like, well, look, here are the costs of living in these

00:10:45.500 areas. Here are the costs of living here. Like it's, it's not impossible. You actually are spending

00:10:50.340 more here when you can trust the average salary versus the average salary. And now that you

00:10:54.720 can earn online, like, why are you doing this to yourself? It's talking them through their

00:11:00.700 goals, both aesthetic and personal and helping them realize those goals are possible.

00:11:07.660 To be more specific here, my early conversations with Simone were not feminism bad. It was, what 0.95

00:11:12.680 do you want to achieve with your life? What do you think has purpose and value in life?

00:11:16.780 And how do you plan to achieve those things? And then through walking through how she could

00:11:21.760 achieve those things, that's where we realized that, or by walking through some of the values

00:11:26.320 that she thought were important, that's where we ran into philosophical issues with things like

00:11:32.100 feminism. But that wasn't the initial goal. Feminism was the roadblock to her living the life that she 1.00

00:11:38.500 wanted to live. It was not something that I just came out objectively like, this is terrible.

00:11:43.780 My goal always in those early conversations was to help her realize her own dreams and help ensure

00:11:49.580 that those dreams were philosophically coherent and robust. And not being afraid. I mean, I think

00:11:57.540 that there's different categories of feminist, right? Like there's the, I genuinely hate men category 0.78

00:12:03.360 of feminist. Okay. But I don't think every, you know, I think that that's a smaller category, 1.00

00:12:09.240 to be honest. Yeah. I don't, I can't think of anyone I've personally met who just really hate

00:12:16.600 men as a woman. I have met at least two men who seem to really hate women.

00:12:28.560 Yeah, I have two more recently. I've met more men who seem to genuinely hate women recently,

00:12:32.640 just recently. Now I'm talking about what I've seen on now online. I see way more misandrist women, 1.00

00:12:39.240 but that's because of the content I consume. I find that really funny. But like, yeah, I don't,

00:12:43.840 I don't consider someone online to be even like, maybe their audience believes that. And that's what

00:12:48.660 they say. Like they might not actually feel that. So I'm only counting like people's people whose

00:12:53.400 behavior demonstrates like very clearly that they hold women in disdain and that they see women is

00:12:59.880 almost subhuman. Yeah. And it hurts them in terms of dating and everything like that. But like,

00:13:05.640 if you're a guy who doesn't feel that way, I'd say that you might be surprised at your luck

00:13:13.580 within the quote unquote feminist dating market that the, the blue haired freaks who you have been 1.00

00:13:21.140 avoiding may love crocheting anime characters and may love cottagecore and may love the idea of one

00:13:31.760 day living on a farm, but they are afraid of considering that was the type of person who would

00:13:37.620 say support Trump or something like that. And so the key isn't so much finding women who want all these

00:13:44.520 things because so many women are just biologically programmed them to it's breaking them out of this 1.00

00:13:49.700 box of illusions that they have been placed in that allows them to play this perpetual victim,

00:13:55.780 which is sort of the spell cast by the urban monoculture on so many of them.

00:14:02.120 Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know though, like, how would you navigate past the women or would you just 1.00

00:14:12.020 write off the women who have like in their profile, like, if you even thought about voting for Trump,

00:14:17.640 don't ever reach out to me, like, are they too radicalized to be? No, some people like debating

00:14:22.920 and stuff like that. Like some women like that are really open to changing their minds, but you will 1.00

00:14:28.020 know when you debate them. What I would say is, is you can tell pretty quickly which type of person

00:14:32.660 you're dealing with in a debate. Yeah. Are they just like all Trump voters are racist? And then you're

00:14:37.020 like, well, okay, but like 45% of Latinos voted for Trump, but they're internalized. It's like, no,

00:14:42.380 but like, can you think about their perspective? Why might they have felt this way? Like why might

00:14:47.920 even, even Latino women move to vote more for Trump? Like, can we talk about outside of this racism?

00:14:54.520 Why some people feel this, if you can break them out of this. Now, what I will say is super dangerous

00:15:00.800 is marrying one of these women as a progressive man. I would say almost never do.

00:15:08.640 So don't, so it's consider, consider marrying a left-leaning woman. Okay. Okay. Let me,

00:15:15.700 let me see if I'm following your reasoning here. Marrying a left-leaning woman as a right-leaning man

00:15:21.500 is reasonable because she's probably going to see the reason behind all of your logic with time

00:15:29.920 kind of come around. And she'll realize like the toxicity of, of a lot of her views with time.

00:15:35.960 If you're a left-leaning man. Not with time. You don't marry her until she's realized. I guess

00:15:39.700 I'm saying like, don't like hope she realizes after you marry. Make sure that happens first. Continue.

00:15:44.560 And then if you're a left-leaning man, you're just going to make it worse. She's just going to end up 1.00

00:15:49.300 hating you and everything in her life and spiral into depression. And so don't because it's almost

00:15:56.620 like she left-leaning women can be seen as like someone with like a precancerous condition. And 1.00

00:16:04.680 if you're right-leaning, you kind of have the cure, but if you're left-leaning, you're like an active

00:16:08.900 carcinogen and you're like making it worse. You're like a ton of alcohol and sugar and stress on a body

00:16:14.120 that like has potential to develop cancer versus like, no, I wouldn't say that exactly. I think

00:16:20.220 that the left-leaning guy would think like, well, I've subdued the crazy parts. But the problem is,

00:16:25.580 is you haven't popped the bubble. The bubble is the alternate worldview where if you are a racist in

00:16:31.840 America, you are in a disgusting racist fascist, which you are. If you are in, in current America, 0.99

00:16:38.560 might not have been the case before, but if you are a leftist today to any extent, you are a racist.

00:16:43.460 You are supporting a party that supports the systemic separation of human beings based on 0.56

00:16:49.900 their ethnic group, the systemic affordance of human dignity to different people based on their

00:16:55.620 ethnic group or sexual preferences. And that is a worldview that if you are saying, I'm going to go 0.75

00:17:04.020 for a more vanilla form of this, it's very easy for one partner to enter a more extreme form of this.

00:17:08.740 The thing about breaking a woman out of this as a guy, where I would actually say, 0.99

00:17:14.900 if you are a conservative guy and there is one of two women you're marrying,

00:17:18.920 one has spent her entire life politically uninvolved. The other used to be a feminist, 1.00

00:17:25.560 like my wife or, you know, something like that, but realize the wrongs of that culture, 0.99

00:17:31.880 had the bubble burst and then ends up marrying you, you are 100,000% safer with the latter than

00:17:38.560 the former, because the former is still susceptible to the virus. She's still susceptible to gal pals 1.00

00:17:45.460 whispering this stuff in her ear. She's still susceptible to picking up a podcast that talks

00:17:50.140 about this stuff. The other one, the moment you pop this bubble for one of these girls and you see

00:17:55.560 this over and over and over again, look at our interview is like peachy keenan or something like

00:17:58.480 this. They begin to see like all of the people who think this way is like enemies trying to ruin

00:18:04.840 their lives again. They build up a very strong immunity to it. Now I need to state emphatically

00:18:11.120 this unidirectionality only applies if they have already been fully converted to the urban monoculture

00:18:16.640 and then are brought out of it. If they haven't been significantly exposed to it or they have never

00:18:21.440 converted into it, i.e. they've never really thought about the ideas of feminism or they started as a

00:18:26.960 conservative, a lot of these women do end up going to the urban monoculture. When I discuss this 1.00

00:18:31.560 unidirectionality, it's only once somebody is fully bought into it, once they're broken out of it for

00:18:37.040 the first time, that's when the immunity is had. If they have never been exposed to it or never had

00:18:42.620 a full infection, they are still susceptible to the virus. It's almost like it's okay to fish within the

00:18:49.260 urban monoculture because getting a fish out of the urban monoculture develops a very strong

00:18:54.700 immunity to the urban monoculture after that. Whereas a fish that was never fully indoctrinated

00:18:59.880 is always going to be susceptible to that.

00:19:04.860 Would you say that this, have you ever seen somebody who came out of the urban monoculture

00:19:08.800 go back into it?

00:19:13.760 No, honestly, yeah, it seems to be unidirectional going from

00:19:17.660 far left to the right. And I even see this with historical, just social association, like

00:19:28.420 the family members that I had who started out in the Hare Krishna and then ended up as conservative

00:19:34.760 Christians. I've never seen someone go the other way. And I'm sure there are plenty of examples of

00:19:41.220 people who were like, like the grandfather was systemically indoctrinated and his family

00:19:46.580 didn't listen to let him listen to any other news source for like years. But other than that,

00:19:53.160 it seems very difficult to, to get somebody who's broken out of it. But what is actually interesting

00:19:59.460 to me is I think if somebody starts far right, even if they start far right as a wife, they are

00:20:05.100 susceptible to this. You are actually, I would say maybe twice as safe with somebody who started

00:20:11.380 urban monoculture and you broke them out of it. Then you are somebody who starts far right.

00:20:17.280 And I can think of an example of this, like within my family, a wife, like after the divorce, 0.72

00:20:21.440 where she like adopted all this feminist rhetoric and everything. Remember, she was talking to you, 0.72

00:20:26.120 Simone, about like, don't you think you have it harder as a woman? And you were like, what are you 0.65

00:20:31.020 talking about? Do you know who I'm talking about? Oh, with the house? Yeah, the house.

00:20:41.000 I imagine that she held those views during her tenure in conservative culture as well.

00:20:52.160 Based on her personality. So I'm not sure. I would say that someone who grows up very,

00:20:58.860 very sheltered though. I mean, the one, the one case in which you very consistently see people

00:21:04.240 who are conservative move to hyper-progressive culture is if they grew up in a sheltered bubble

00:21:10.300 that is conservative. And then they discover that there were a certain number of lies that

00:21:16.360 had been told to them or that there are other ways of living life that they hadn't yet really seen

00:21:21.120 systematically in good faith torn down or questioned. Yeah. Like only just like, this is bad. Never do

00:21:31.740 it. If you do this, you'll go to hell. Or everyone who does this is like a drug addict and terrible. 0.99

00:21:36.060 And it turns out that's not true. And then they go hard, hard into progressive culture. So yeah, 0.68

00:21:42.520 I guess that that's fair. Like there, there's probably a thought among many of the single young

00:21:48.480 men, single young men who watch this podcast who are thinking, well, I'll just find a nice girl

00:21:53.680 from a super sheltered religious conservative community. Yeah. And that that would be a very,

00:21:59.860 very bad idea because then as soon as they get exposed to the wider world, um, they'll make a lot

00:22:05.560 of assumptions about it being better because that's all the promises that are made by progressive

00:22:09.360 culture are we're better. We follow the science. We are correct. We are the enlightened ones. We are the

00:22:15.840 forward thinking ones. Um, no one, or no one's advertising the fact that it's, you know,

00:22:21.740 actively backwards and racist and anti-science and anti-evidence and all these things, because

00:22:26.180 that's not how that works. So yeah, I could see that being uniquely dangerous. And I, that's a very

00:22:30.860 interesting sell. I didn't know that that's what you're going to make, uh, as an argument in this.

00:22:34.340 Or you get to make the exact opposite argument. You get to go to the person who's been indoctrinated

00:22:38.220 and hidden within this progressive culture, who's in Manhattan or in SF.

00:22:41.500 And you can just be like, guess what? You've been lied to. And that's, that's a very fun sell.

00:22:45.320 Go to that farm you've dreamed of your entire life where you can, yes, work your online job and

00:22:51.480 spend your days crocheting and spend your days, you know, caring for chickens and, you know,

00:22:57.980 on the cottage core property and we can have a big garden and work it together sometimes.

00:23:02.280 Um, you know, that is, they're like, wait, wait, wait, I can have it all. It's like, yeah,

00:23:08.740 we won't earn as much. You won't get the new computer everywhere year. You won't get the

00:23:12.720 new gadgets. You won't get all the jewelry you want. What's the point of jewelry if I'm not

00:23:16.980 showing off to the city friends? But yeah, I think you're right, which I think is something

00:23:21.620 that just isn't talked about that much or isn't talked about being possible that much.

00:23:26.020 Or when it is talked about being possible, people think it in a fetishized context where

00:23:31.120 people are like, well, Malcolm, you built Simone. And like, that's true a lot, but it

00:23:38.220 was because you weren't given a good framework to build yourself. And I guess my question to

00:23:44.760 you is B is like, what, what advice would you give there? Like, how does somebody approach

00:23:50.200 somebody was like an alternative? Like I approached you.

00:23:52.940 Well, the most powerful thing you did was ask me what I really wanted and then help me

00:23:58.640 get there from a first principles approach. And I think that's the thing is, is when you

00:24:04.020 ask most progressive women, what they want, they're not taking the most efficient or effective 1.00

00:24:10.500 or likely to succeed pathway to get there. And you can provide them with information on other

00:24:17.180 ways they can achieve their desired edge.

00:24:23.160 That's a good point is start with if you're like, how do you how do you do this? Start with

00:24:28.160 what do you want? From life? What do you want in terms of kids? What do you want in terms of family?

00:24:36.040 And what you're going to get from these women as well is of course, I want a husband, but I'll

00:24:39.200 never find a guy who meets those metrics. Of course, I want kids, but I never find somebody who

00:24:44.140 meets those metrics. And many of them feel this way. Not all of them, but enough of them where

00:24:49.820 you still are offering something of arbitrage within these markets because so few other guys

00:24:54.300 within these markets who are actively dating are interested in providing that for these women. 0.95

00:24:59.780 You know, they want easy sex often. 0.78

00:25:04.360 And if you want something else, you're providing something that no one else on the market is offering. 0.91

00:25:09.040 Oh, that little one is such a bad fever. 0.79

00:25:15.620 Here's a question I have around kids. So they might be like, well, not all women want kids. 0.99

00:25:20.820 You didn't want kids. Okay. When I talked about kids and you're like, well, I mean, if I don't have

00:25:25.320 to leave my job, I don't have to leave my aspirations to have kids and sure I'll have kids. Cause that's

00:25:30.980 what I asked her. I wasn't even like a trad path. I went down and she's like, I'll have kids if I don't

00:25:35.400 have to leave my aspirations to have kids. And I was like, okay, does that mean you'll support me?

00:25:39.620 And I was like, yeah, sure. Then if that's my backup, that works. Obviously not ideal for you

00:25:44.980 either, but like, we, we sort of like negotiated this. And I think that like being forced to

00:25:51.660 think through this, as soon as you started thinking about kids, you were apprehensive about

00:25:57.500 them until you had your first, right? Oh yeah. Yeah. Before Octavian was born,

00:26:02.460 I approached you and said, I can't guarantee you that I'll love our son. Like, I don't know.

00:26:08.460 Yeah, you did. What can I do about this? And lo and behold, hormones work. And I love him so much

00:26:15.580 as I love all of our children so, so, so, so much, but I don't think you can really communicate that to

00:26:21.300 when you can't promise it either. Sometimes hormones mess up. Sometimes we have such terrible

00:26:28.240 postpartum depression that they're like, send it back. I don't want the baby. Like this, you know,

00:26:32.100 I'm not doing this and that's devastating. But again, it comes back to having very open and honest

00:26:38.720 conversations with any partner that you're about to embark on a life with, whether you're male or

00:26:44.180 female and whether they're male or female is what do you actually want with your life? And what is your

00:26:48.960 current plan to achieve that? And what, what are more creative ways that could be achieved?

00:26:54.100 And the most interesting things you did again with, when it came to the discussion of kids was like,

00:26:58.560 okay, you, you say you don't want kids, but why? And it was because I didn't want to give up my career.

00:27:03.460 There was really no other concern with that. So I think thinking about things from a first

00:27:10.260 principle standpoint, you know, why do you have to live here? Why do you want to have this job?

00:27:15.980 Why do you never want to get married? Why do you never want to have kids? And exploring that

00:27:24.420 is important. And I would refer people to our other episode about the various reasons why,

00:27:33.000 especially young, educated, affluent women don't want to have kids. We've discussed that at length 0.99

00:27:38.900 in terms of having that kind of argument or conversation with a young woman. But yeah,

00:27:43.060 I think another big element of this that shouldn't be understated, although it's a theme that's coming

00:27:49.180 up in more and more episodes, is that you also just have to be good enough as a guy.

00:27:54.580 Which is hard, given that women have, you know, really rigged the game against you by saying, 1.00

00:27:59.000 well, you know, women have to earn the same or more as men, but men need to be better. And it's 0.98

00:28:03.720 like, well, what do you mean men need to earn more than me? And it's like, well, you just,

00:28:07.760 you fucking destroyed that, you idiot. Like, of course they can't earn more than you when you've 1.00

00:28:13.280 created a society.

00:28:14.300 Well, it's annoying too. Like men, men both have to earn more than women and have the same or greater 0.71

00:28:20.160 education, which is, so it's like, oh, but you know, he like, he owns and runs an HVAC business.

00:28:27.620 No, I would never, you know, like he's go become a destiny orbiter. Go back to that episode. Go

00:28:34.180 become a destiny orbiter. Don't worry about it. You can feel good about yourself.

00:28:39.100 Yeah. I mean, we, our culture does need a reset with education. It needs a reset with

00:28:43.320 acknowledging and also being willing to acknowledge and accept various forms of value or status.

00:28:52.360 Like you, you don't have to, like, you may have a master's and all these other things. And you need

00:29:02.500 to acknowledge that like a guy with a very successful, like roofing business with just a

00:29:08.140 high school degree, but who makes like $300,000 a year, which is a hell of a lot more than you and

00:29:13.900 your like marketing position is higher status than you at least, you know, on, on many dimensions.

00:29:19.660 And you should acknowledge that and take them. No, on every meaningful dimension. And I,

00:29:23.340 and I think maybe what we can do as a society here is we need to begin to treat high education 0.79

00:29:29.440 guys as a feat as being kind of, kind of gay. It's kind of, it's kind of to have a fancy degree.

00:29:38.500 Actually, I think that's going to happen. It's going to start happening naturally as knowledge

00:29:43.520 workers cease to exist. Oh my gosh, it's so uncomfortable. As knowledge workers cease to

00:29:49.680 exist as a profession. I think that we're going to see a return to prestige in what used to be

00:29:57.960 seen as lower class roles, kind of like the South Park episode predicted, maybe, you know,

00:30:02.680 where like suddenly like all these people who were seen as low class have all the...

00:30:07.300 So gentlemen, what seems to be the problem? I got a lot of jobs here, buddy. This one paid the most

00:30:12.020 today. Pulled together and offered him $20,000. Years. Eight years I spent wasting time at stupid

00:30:20.100 college when I could have been learning how to do stuff. My baby mama won't turn on. 1.00

00:30:23.940 I see my water pressure. Mr.

00:30:25.960 We're just being busy with my various assets. You see, I've been trying to acquire some social media

00:30:30.960 platforms. Hey, did you just outbid me to acquire Instagram? I bet I can get to space before you do.

00:30:37.060 Hand me to service. How can I help you?

00:30:41.200 Note here that I do not believe that this shift is going to be primarily integrated

00:30:45.920 by just an economic shift. Although I do think there will be an economic shift for some types of

00:30:51.060 jobs like manual labor, why manual labor would increase in value. It's one of the few things 0.77

00:30:55.740 that can't be easily automated. And it's an area where was fewer and fewer young people in the economy

00:31:01.800 and fewer and fewer young people wanting to participate in the economy. And let's be honest,

00:31:05.660 the specification of most men being unable to do manual labor is going to be crunched much harder

00:31:11.340 than other professions. But also what we're going to see is individuals and cultures that

00:31:16.200 are able to value men for male oriented tasks, especially when men have been frozen out of the 0.54

00:31:22.800 education system and of higher order jobs within bureaucratic systems, that those cultures are just 0.93

00:31:28.460 going to simply out replicate other cultures and be healthier than other cultures, which will lead 0.97

00:31:32.600 them to becoming larger and larger over time.

00:31:36.640 Yeah, I mean, I think society is about to have a major power reshuffle, which would be a really

00:31:40.820 interesting episode in terms of like, how a power and status hierarchies are going to 0.79

00:31:46.760 transform themselves. But yeah, I completely agree.

00:31:50.000 Well, any final thoughts, Simone, my wife, who I brainwashed out of, I not brainwashed out of feminism,

00:31:56.680 you are a regular free thinking feminist woman, and I brainwashed you into a trad wife with years of 1.00

00:32:02.380 dedicated effort. Do you do you still have free thought? Is this is this still all your opinion?

00:32:09.740 Is the hell that you live in with a crying baby? 0.66

00:32:12.400 It's just not the best time for us to be filming this episode with, you know, a sick baby who's not 0.76

00:32:19.560 necessarily advertising life.

00:32:21.880 No, but here's the thing, you still feel this way despite the sick baby.

00:32:26.620 Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, one thing that I have heard from parents who like are actually

00:32:33.660 living the real, like, they have a lot of kids, you know, and in some cases, stay-at-home moms,

00:32:39.140 is they're like, the big problem with trad wives is they do make things look too perfect, and they 1.00

00:32:43.680 they do make things look unrealistic, and they are setting people up for failure. So I guess it's

00:32:48.940 important that people see the crying babies and the fussing sometimes, because that is absolutely a

00:32:55.000 part of life. Just like, I would argue, these nights of existential ennui and meaninglessness and

00:33:03.120 anxiety as a hedonically oriented single woman are. You know, like, no one, no one films that. No one 0.73

00:33:11.100 films, like, you kind of just sitting, being like, both anxious and bored at the same time.

00:33:17.220 Yeah.

00:33:17.540 That's a big part of, I would say, like, a single unmarried life as a woman. 0.73

00:33:22.120 Yep, there you go.

00:33:23.640 Love you, Simone.

00:33:25.140 Love you too.

00:33:26.320 What are we doing for dinner tonight? You're gonna reheat some chicken?

00:33:28.940 Yeah.

00:33:30.240 Do you know what type, or?

00:33:34.220 Just, it might be, I can't really tell the difference in the containers, because I haven't

00:33:37.900 labeled them, I can do that in the future. So it's either gonna be, well, one, I could

00:33:42.220 just do curry, or I can do the...

00:33:47.940 The whatever, fiery one.

00:33:54.500 No, not the fiery one, the one with the gochujang. 1.00

00:33:59.200 Oh, the gochujang. If that one is still around, I'd love some. I'm okay with the curry as well.

00:34:03.840 You let me know.

00:34:05.300 The curry would be for two nights, so that's a decent amount. So I'm thinking you probably

00:34:09.960 want to do the gochujang chicken, because I am also thawing out raw chicken.

00:34:13.540 The problem is, I'm gonna be doing the gochujang chicken. 1.00

00:34:16.340 John, the chicken is too bad. By the way, you guys don't know. Like, she's gotten fired.

00:34:20.160 My wife, by the way, she looked up, like, recipes and stuff about how to make, like, Asian food,

00:34:25.220 because I love Asian food. And now I don't even know why to ever leave the house. Like,

00:34:30.500 she is, she's sweet to the kids. She's sweet to me. I live in heaven, because I captured

00:34:36.340 in Brainwast, like, a little Pikachu, like a feminist woman in San Francisco. 1.00

00:34:40.760 Oh, my God. Love you.

00:34:43.820 I love you, too.

00:34:45.200 Your life of the horror beyond comprehensive.

00:34:50.420 Only when the kids give us the flu, right?

00:34:54.440 Yeah.

00:34:55.200 And then, do you see how she stops crying as soon as she, like, somehow intuitively knows

00:35:00.380 that the podcast is over?

00:35:01.600 Of course. She wants our fans to hate babies. 0.96

00:35:04.920 Yeah. Anyway, I love you.

00:35:07.680 Love you, too.

00:35:08.360 Love you, too.

00:35:10.760 Love you, too.

00:35:11.760 Love you, too.

00:35:12.760 She bakes her bread by San Fran's streets

00:35:16.760 Dreams of chickens and fresh beets

00:35:20.500 Medieval cosplay veiled up boots

00:35:24.540 In her garden, she plants her roots

00:35:27.660 A cottagecore queen in her urban space 0.99

00:35:34.140 Crocheting in lace with style and grace

00:35:37.920 But mention trad wives 0.99

00:35:40.120 She'll roll her eyes

00:35:42.100 Yet secretly she'll fantasize

00:35:45.580 In her dreams there's a farm wife 0.98

00:35:49.440 With her night in the countryside

00:35:52.360 But she'll tell you that's not what she needs

00:35:56.880 While knitting yarn and planting seeds

00:36:01.340 Her apartment's small but her plans are vast

00:36:07.500 In vintage dresses she's typecast

00:36:11.340 She claims a man won't fix her life 0.96

00:36:15.180 While knitting yarn and planting seeds

00:36:18.400 Her dough starter, a jar of dreams

00:36:23.060 Her life's less together than it seems

00:36:26.740 Cottage fantasies fill her head

00:36:30.420 But I hate trad wives 1.00

00:36:32.640 She firmly said

00:36:34.240 In her dreams there's a farm wife 0.98

00:36:38.420 With her night in the countryside

00:36:41.320 But she'll tell you that's not what she needs

00:36:45.940 While knitting yarn and planting seeds

00:36:51.160 Is she lost or is she found

00:36:55.360 In her hand spun wool gown

00:36:59.260 A wife's purpose so profound

00:37:03.100 Yet in contradictions she's bound

00:37:07.220 So she'll bake her bread and live in her lore 1.00

00:37:12.220 Dreaming of life with so much more

00:37:15.220 A modern maiden strong and free 0.93

00:37:18.760 With a secret wish even she can't see

00:37:23.440 But she escapes confess her 0.82

00:37:24.560 So she'll kenneth me 0.98

00:37:25.120 I just wanted to know

00:37:27.740 It everytime dies

00:37:28.900 Unless she steals 1.00

00:37:30.040 I guess it's so happy

00:37:30.660 Does she trust you

00:37:31.500 But she've got skills 1.00

00:37:32.840 några years old

00:37:33.840 But in later

00:37:34.260 Big kind of33

00:37:35.440 Well

00:37:36.800 It's the ghost

00:37:37.420 You know

00:37:38.360 income

00:37:40.140 We've had time

00:37:41.220 And

00:37:42.100 And

00:37:42.620 We've married

00:37:43.420 fig

00:37:44.120 Let you live

00:37:44.880 That's

00:37:45.120 gender

00:37:46.240 Is she lost or is she found

00:38:02.120 In her hand-spun wool gown

00:38:06.180 A wife's purpose so profound

00:38:10.180 Yet in contradictions she's bound

00:38:15.020 So she'll bake her bread and live in her lore 1.00

00:38:22.840 Dreaming of life with so much more

00:38:26.860 A modern maiden, strong and free 0.99

00:38:30.860 With a secret wish even she can't see

00:38:45.020 Thank you

Based Camp - March 04, 2025

Cottagecore Feminist to Tradwife Pipeline

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