Based Camp - April 23, 2025


Dating For Marriage: Why Red Pill Strategies Backfire


Episode Stats

Length

41 minutes

Words per Minute

186.60672

Word Count

7,651

Sentence Count

495

Misogynist Sentences

57

Hate Speech Sentences

34


Summary

In this episode, we talk about how I secured Simone as a wife, why she chose me, and how to avoid hypergamy. We also talk about why it s so important to have a good relationship with your wife.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello, everyone. I'm really excited to be talking with you today. I am a woman, a wolf. I'm
00:00:06.180 hypergamous. I'm evil. And I'm going to tell you exactly why I chose my husband, who, of course,
00:00:10.960 I will discard someday for a better model. I mean, maybe. Let's find out.
00:00:17.400 No, hold on. Specifically, the two concepts we're going to be discussing in this episode
00:00:20.600 is how I secured Simone as a wife. And the second is, i.e., why did she develop feelings for me
00:00:29.120 from her own perception? Why did she decide to marry me when before this she had been very urban
00:00:34.800 monoculture, very in that bubble? How do you secure and convert, not just secure, but convert high
00:00:42.960 quality women? And then second, how do you avoid hypergamy? And we're talking about this because
00:00:48.800 a lot of people following this podcast are interested in finding a wife. And also many of
00:00:54.680 the ambitious, intelligent, successful young women they're dating are also very urban monoculture
00:01:01.620 pill. They're just like me. They never want to have kids. They want to focus on their career.
00:01:05.700 The idea of pregnancy is abhorrent to them. So maybe we can use me as a case study, delve into my
00:01:12.580 previous brain, and at least the dynamics that enabled Malcolm's in my relationship to happen to
00:01:17.420 see if maybe some of this might be replicated for you if this is a goal of yours.
00:01:21.620 And then how to avoid hypergamy, which I would argue is made likely by overly trad relationships.
00:01:31.000 Both being too overly urban monoculture or overly trad makes you very at risk for hypergamy.
00:01:36.100 That's interesting. The first thing I think of when you mentioned that is when it comes to careers,
00:01:40.700 the smart thing is to switch careers every few years because you're able to get a better income.
00:01:44.880 And I wonder if the same dynamic is the case when your career is being a wife, like after a few
00:01:51.320 years, especially if you feel like you're appreciating in value, like if you're building
00:01:54.680 an online following or you're getting hotter in any way, like if you're actually a durable wife,
00:01:59.580 trading up and being hypergamous is actually the logical thing to do. That's interesting.
00:02:05.120 All right. Well, let's start with you and why you chose me and what guys have
00:02:09.840 gotten your eye before. Yeah. So I have a very consistent track record of people I've had crushes
00:02:17.720 on since I was a teen. The universal factor is having a unique passion for something in your life,
00:02:29.320 knowing who you are and being very transparent about it and unapologetic about it. In other podcasts,
00:02:36.040 we've alluded to this like very embarrassing crush I had on this guy who was really into Catholic
00:02:40.820 doctrine and I would go to his dorm room, bringing all these cupcakes and asking him hard questions
00:02:45.720 about Catholicism. Cause it was just like my excuse to like get him to talk to me more. I had crushes
00:02:50.200 on people who were, you know, he ended up, he ended up, he's like, Oh, Simone, I've enjoyed these
00:02:55.560 discussions with you so much. I've decided to become a priest. And she's like, no, this is how good my
00:03:02.160 game is. You don't know Catholic priest can't marry or date. So yeah, that was, yeah. No, it worked out
00:03:08.960 really well. Come on, Malcolm. I'm really, all is as it should be. I want to take a few notes on what
00:03:14.840 you're saying here because Simone is not unique in this fact. Not at all. Most high value women I know
00:03:22.780 have this profile in terms of what that like gets them excited about a partner. And a lot of the guys
00:03:31.440 I know when they are pursuing women do not pursue them using these techniques and we'll go over the
00:03:38.620 techniques that they use that are really ineffective. The first step, I think one, one thing I'll just
00:03:42.520 note is even when you look at a lot of the crushes that take place in fictional universes, it's often
00:03:48.060 on guys who have no interest in women are not like, Oh, I'm here. Cause I'm like powerful and cool.
00:03:53.980 It's men who are extremely passionate about whatever it is, like be that revenge or saving their
00:04:00.220 kingdom or something else. It's people who know who they are and have a mission and are pursuing it.
00:04:06.140 And these are the women, this is, these are the men to whom women want to hitch their wagons.
00:04:10.920 Yeah. Lots of Luigi Mani, Gioni fan fictions going around right now.
00:04:14.100 Oh no. Oh dear.
00:04:17.640 But I, I, I want to explain one, why this is the case. And to the, the reason why guys are making mistakes.
00:04:24.140 The first mistake comes downstream of the red pill movement. And you and I would actually consider
00:04:29.320 ourselves like red pillars to an extent. The red pill is fundamentally correct where it taught guys
00:04:35.760 that, Hey, women say they want X, but they really want Y, but there was a sub caveat to everything.
00:04:43.180 The red pill taught men and everything, the pickup artists taught men, which was, this is how you win
00:04:49.400 on the sexual marketplace. And as we've always pointed out, there are two key marketplaces.
00:04:55.700 There is the sexual marketplace and there is the marriage slash long-term relationship marketplace.
00:05:01.340 And on the sexual marketplace, women have an enormous advantage. And, you know, these same guys will laugh
00:05:09.940 at women who think they can get the same type of guy to marry them as they can get to sleep with them
00:05:14.580 on a one night stand, but not apply just as for that woman, different rules apply between these two
00:05:20.220 marketplaces. Different things are arousing. Different things are desirable. The same thing is true for
00:05:26.360 men. And so they apply tools and techniques that have been optimized to secure a woman who will sleep
00:05:36.140 with you as quickly as possible. Like it's attractive as a woman, if possible sleeping with you as quickly
00:05:40.000 as possible. Well, what's one of the things that those techniques are going to filter out if they
00:05:44.880 are working as intended, they are going to filter out chaste women very early. You would want them
00:05:51.400 to filter out chaste women. I'm going to a bar and I am looking to come home and sleep with someone
00:05:57.040 that night. A pickup line that causes a woman like Simone, who before me had never slept with someone
00:06:02.700 to like walk away, is actually a good line. It increases the probability that you end up going
00:06:09.860 home with someone. But the problem is, is it also means that intrinsically the women who you are
00:06:15.700 bringing home are gonna be, well, both one, less chaste and two, less interesting. And so you could
00:06:23.340 say, okay, so why is it that so many of this chaste cast of women is thinking like Simone is in terms of
00:06:30.980 their arousal pattern? Like why are they looking for a man who has a mission? And I think that there is
00:06:37.300 a line in Rick and Morty that is said derogatorily, but it's actually, I think, the aspiration for a lot
00:06:44.760 of women, which is he says, hey, I mean, it's not like he's a hot girl. He can't just bail on his life and
00:06:50.160 set up shop in someone else's. But that I think is the reality of an aspiration among many women is they
00:06:57.260 want to set themselves up in a life that looks like it's going to matter and be respected or at least be
00:07:05.820 something that they can take personal pride in being a part of.
00:07:12.040 I think it also might correlate with long-term signs of career stability. So this is the behavior
00:07:23.400 that you would expect from someone who is not a free radical, from someone who is likely to have
00:07:29.740 a steady income and security in their life. And I think women looking for long-term partners are
00:07:36.340 subconsciously looking for someone who is also dependable and consistent and a safe person to
00:07:43.020 invest in. I disagree, actually. So here, listen to this and then you'll be like, oh yeah, you're right.
00:07:48.080 Of the women I know who have chosen partners based on this factor, which a lot of high-quality women
00:07:53.660 have, the most common relationship structure is the sword and shield structure that we have discussed
00:07:58.800 multiple times. Sword and shield structure relationships mean the woman chooses, or not
00:08:05.240 the woman, one of the partners chooses to be the shield. That means they are a secure source of income.
00:08:09.980 And then the sword goes out and does the high-risk, high-reward things that can move the family up.
00:08:16.640 Yeah, but it's the passion. It's the consistent passion and transparency that indicates that they
00:08:21.400 will be a sword at all. I think absolutely women are on average more likely to be the shield.
00:08:26.500 I think you're totally wrong in thinking that women aren't looking for a consistent driving passion
00:08:31.660 to be able to trust that their men will be a sword. I cannot tell you how many women I've encountered
00:08:36.320 who have met and ended up with men and then ultimately left them, or just been dragged
00:08:40.700 down by them for life because those men end up just being louts at home and not doing anything.
00:08:46.620 Like, that is a really common issue. I hear what you're saying, but the way that you had framed
00:08:50.340 this to begin with is a look for this trait in men because it leads to economic stability and
00:08:56.480 career success. No, no, no, no. But you have to understand, a man who is passionate, who knows what
00:09:00.620 he's all about, and who really is, like, big on a thing, isn't a guy who, like, gets his salary
00:09:06.940 job and does his nine-to-five.
00:09:08.900 It's literally antithetical to economic stability.
00:09:13.760 No, I don't mean economic stability. I mean, like, you can depend on them to be driving the
00:09:19.440 family forward.
00:09:21.060 Driving the family forward to some goal.
00:09:23.280 Yes.
00:09:23.700 But I think that's a key thing.
00:09:25.900 The way that you said what you said could easily be misinterpreted by a guy to be girls
00:09:31.220 want a guy was a successful, like, say, bureaucratic career.
00:09:36.560 And I'm sure some do.
00:09:37.840 Some do, but I would say that if you're looking for, like, really high-quality women, often
00:09:42.200 that is not what they want, and they actually want to be support for the guy.
00:09:48.080 But when they want to be support for a guy, they want the guy doing something big and interesting
00:09:53.740 enough to be worth dedicating your life to a supporting role in that.
00:09:58.640 Because you're essentially investing in a startup.
00:10:01.660 So you're not going to invest in a stupid-sounding startup.
00:10:04.380 You want to invest in something good.
00:10:06.600 Yeah, and I also know there's sword and shield relationships for people who are like, well,
00:10:10.020 I prefer a traditional relationship.
00:10:11.560 Well, this was traditional for Vikings.
00:10:13.360 Women stayed.
00:10:14.060 They managed the family finances.
00:10:15.300 They managed the farm, and the guy would go out.
00:10:16.800 And Spartans, too.
00:10:18.460 Yeah, no, this is actually probably more of a common relationship in human history than
00:10:24.480 anything close to a nuclear family has been, where the guy goes out and earns all the money
00:10:28.140 and the woman stays at home and does nothing.
00:10:29.440 That's incredibly rare.
00:10:30.860 That's really kind of descended from aristocratic relationships.
00:10:34.400 The women, yeah, the women never really did anything if they were high-achieving.
00:10:40.160 Even aristocratic women did a lot.
00:10:42.260 They did the household management.
00:10:43.720 If you were an aristocratic woman, that means that your husband ran an estate.
00:10:50.540 This was the equivalent of running a city, like being a mayor of a city.
00:10:54.900 There were tenants who were farming.
00:10:57.440 You had a village.
00:10:58.320 You had the entire household.
00:10:59.760 You were entertaining important guests.
00:11:01.600 You were basically running an events management company and a small town.
00:11:05.000 Well, and this is where you got the poverty, and I'd call it the emotional poverty of the
00:11:12.280 nuclear family, which, as we pointed out before, really only started in the 1910s and only lasted
00:11:17.300 until the 1970s, where you had men who supported a wife at home.
00:11:22.700 And that was because the middle class in America tried to model their family structure off of the
00:11:28.460 family structure of aristocrats of before 1910.
00:11:32.140 So, you know, they saw the woman staying at home, the man going out.
00:11:35.440 And by the way, before this period, what you had with corporate families, the man and the woman would
00:11:39.020 work together to run something.
00:11:40.280 But anyway, they saw this happening, and they tried to model it, but without understanding that the
00:11:49.980 women who lived this type of lifestyle were actually doing a ton of stuff.
00:11:54.300 But because they didn't have courts, because they didn't have, you know, parties every other
00:11:59.640 month at their house that, like, hundreds of people would come to, because they didn't have a
00:12:03.600 staff, the woman was just sitting at home all day.
00:12:06.020 And this is why you got all these housewives addicted to, like, cocaine and, like, other stuff.
00:12:09.780 What were all the drugs that they were on?
00:12:11.000 I can't remember.
00:12:12.020 Mommy's little helper.
00:12:13.240 Yeah.
00:12:13.500 It was, like, a major problem for housewives, because you can't just, like, sit at home and
00:12:17.040 do nothing all day.
00:12:17.800 I mean, in the, like, 30s to 50s, it was amphetamines.
00:12:21.440 And then after that, it was, like, I would say 60s to 90s, it was benzos.
00:12:27.440 So it kind of depends on your time.
00:12:29.800 Yeah.
00:12:30.200 But I'd also note here around, like, let's say, arousal patterns, because, like, you actually,
00:12:36.240 you didn't just, like, logically decide to go for me.
00:12:39.360 You developed a crush on me when you saw my passion and how much I'd sought through things.
00:12:46.880 Like, explain how that works, because I think that's going to be interesting for people.
00:12:52.180 Yeah.
00:12:52.740 The biggest thing that felt so shocking, going on a date with Malcolm after going on a date
00:12:58.480 with a bunch of other guys in the Bay Area when I was on my campaign, and that is to say,
00:13:03.860 when I turned 24, I decided there's a New Year's resolution.
00:13:06.680 That year, I was going to fall in love and have my heart broken and then live alone forever.
00:13:10.220 So I was, like, systematically going through OkCupid, like, dating through the Bay Area, the
00:13:15.240 San Francisco Bay Area, to try to find someone I could fall in love with.
00:13:20.260 The guys before, you know, we had some of the conversations were interesting.
00:13:25.200 Some of the dates were really interesting and surprising.
00:13:28.000 But they never really, no one stood out, because no one, no, everyone was aimless.
00:13:35.420 No one knew what they really valued, what they cared about.
00:13:38.500 There were certainly things they were interested in, and they were building this or that, or working
00:13:42.240 on this with their career, or they really were interested in four-year transforms, or, like,
00:13:47.180 building obstacle courses, or all sorts of interesting things.
00:13:49.600 Like, they were interesting people.
00:13:51.060 And I also, I think it's misleading for me to be like, none of them had passions, but none
00:13:57.260 of them had passions that came from any sort of ideological or, like, deep-set values.
00:14:05.640 It was hobbies.
00:14:06.660 Interesting hobbies that augmented their self-perception as interesting people.
00:14:12.760 Yeah.
00:14:13.060 And, you know, I don't know if this is true.
00:14:14.980 I was listening to a podcast earlier this month about hobbies being something that were
00:14:20.580 concertedly developed, even through the school system, under the understanding that as technology
00:14:27.300 advanced, society would end up with a ton of free time and needed to direct that free time
00:14:32.520 in a virtuous direction, like with sports, or woodwork, or fishing, or whatever, so that,
00:14:38.740 you know, they didn't, like, loiter on the streets and just start breaking things for fun
00:14:41.960 because they had the time, because they didn't have to work all the time anymore.
00:14:45.540 And I really, whether that's true or not, and it's probably at least a little bit true,
00:14:50.920 the concept of hobbies really is kind of this opiate of the masses thing.
00:14:55.000 It's like this idea that-
00:14:55.620 Yeah, I think they really highlight on something there in terms of women's arousal patterns,
00:14:59.620 right, which is hobbies are what you do to masturbate specific emotional pathways as
00:15:06.340 a male.
00:15:06.720 They're what you do when you don't have purpose in life, because if you have a pure objective
00:15:12.580 function, if you know what you're doing with your life, no, no, no, hear me out here.
00:15:15.840 Like, if you really know what you're all about, you may do something to wind down a little bit
00:15:20.420 that you could call a hobby, but you really don't have, like, a big all-encompassing hobby
00:15:24.980 because you have a bigger thing to work toward, and you're going to take your free time to
00:15:28.480 do that, to advance on that.
00:15:29.820 You know, I agree 100%, but, like, for me, for example, I do, like, recreational activities
00:15:36.880 that I understand to be purely recreational, like video games, for example.
00:15:39.980 Yeah, but you only do them when you, like, actually need to rest because you literally
00:15:42.660 can't think anymore.
00:15:44.300 You've been up for, you know-
00:15:45.380 Right, but I, yeah, I understand that they are no different from masturbation.
00:15:49.940 That is what I am doing when I am playing a video game.
00:15:52.700 I am masturbating parts of my head, and I think that some men hear women say something
00:15:58.820 like, a guy who's a gamer gives me the ick, and they're like, oh my gosh, like, because
00:16:04.020 you see this, like, guys, right, they're like, oh, women, like, just discount any guy who's
00:16:08.540 a gamer, and, like, you misunderstand what's being said here, right?
00:16:13.780 It's guys whose primary thing in life is gaming is what is giving the ick.
00:16:19.620 It is guys whose gaming is more important to them than their purpose, that is going
00:16:25.980 to give any high-quality woman the ick.
00:16:29.180 Any sort of hobby, where hobby is defined as something that doesn't follow some sort
00:16:33.100 of, like, deep-seated value for, like, I could say improving the world or whatever it is that
00:16:38.180 you want to do, right?
00:16:39.680 Even if it's, well, a fairly high-status one.
00:16:42.060 Like, I put together, like, a zombie run in San Francisco every year or something like
00:16:46.980 that, right?
00:16:47.400 Like, and it's big, and it's all on all the newspapers, and it's like, that's a big
00:16:52.040 thing, but it's a thing devoid of purpose.
00:16:54.520 It's a high-status thing, and it adds a quirk to your character, but it's a thing devoid of
00:16:59.840 purpose.
00:17:00.760 Or I do these really cool, like, Burning Man art displays, and then you come check out
00:17:06.260 this giant, like, truckasaurus I made.
00:17:09.020 And it's like, that's cool, but that's...
00:17:10.980 Yeah, and I met a lot of people like that, and it was fun exploring these things with
00:17:15.380 them, but I never came away from our dates thinking, like, I want to be associated with
00:17:22.500 this person.
00:17:23.200 Like, this is someone I could spend my life with.
00:17:26.320 Absolutely, absolutely.
00:17:27.420 And so I think that one thing you said to me when you were talking about this is you're
00:17:32.440 like, they have to have an objective function.
00:17:34.580 And if you don't have one of those yet, The Pragmatist's Guide to Life, our first book,
00:17:38.080 it's 99 cents on Amazon, like, just get it and read it.
00:17:41.840 An objective function is a term that we use to describe a thing or a collection of things,
00:17:48.400 like, you know, weighted things that you think have inherent value and that you want to maximize
00:17:52.640 with your life.
00:17:53.800 They're not life goals, because that implies that this thing of inherent value can be achieved,
00:17:59.120 whereas pretty much all objective functions, whether it be, you know, reducing suffering in
00:18:03.360 mankind or maximizing the amount that you can learn or, you know, protecting human flourishing
00:18:10.160 and intelligence, all of these things are not discrete goals.
00:18:15.700 So do you have any more thoughts on this particular topic before we go to the next one?
00:18:19.940 The other thing that really was, and it stood out, which I think is also super important,
00:18:24.020 and this is an issue with both men and women, is how transparent and honest you were.
00:18:28.480 On our first date, you sit across from me and you say, I'm not looking to date, I'm looking
00:18:32.660 to find a wife, and I expect to find her this fall at Stanford, where there's a large pool
00:18:36.440 of pre-budded candidates.
00:18:37.780 Immediately, I knew that you were looking to get married, that you had specific criteria
00:18:45.480 for a wife, that you didn't think that I fit that criteria, but you were still willing
00:18:48.780 to talk to me.
00:18:49.820 And then you proceeded to give me, like, you laid out your objective function, what you believed
00:18:54.440 mattered, and how you were going to achieve it with your life.
00:18:56.860 And that, to me, was so refreshing, because I know that everyone I went on a date with wanted
00:19:04.060 something, but the vast majority, like, well, none of them until you, actually told me that.
00:19:10.220 You know, it was just always talking about other things.
00:19:12.480 It was never, just never out there.
00:19:15.300 And I think that both men and women, I think they think, because there are often tropes of
00:19:20.280 being transparent as being seen as being desperate or needy, you know, like a woman being like,
00:19:28.020 I'm looking to get married on a first date, not playing hard to get, for example, being
00:19:32.280 seen as bad.
00:19:33.500 But honestly, it just, there are bad ways to deliver it, but if you deliver it right, and
00:19:39.980 if you're based and honest about it, when you reveal your agenda, you are saving time.
00:19:47.260 If someone doesn't want to get married, and you want to get married, and you're on a date
00:19:49.960 with them, it is so good for all of you, if you just make it clear that you're not a good
00:19:55.880 match.
00:19:56.180 The sooner you get to know on that front, the better.
00:19:58.860 And it's similar with, you know, pickup artistry.
00:20:00.840 If someone isn't interested in having sex that night, and you want sex that night, you
00:20:04.280 need to move on.
00:20:05.280 And this is really clear in all the strategy forums, like you, you cannot afford to spend
00:20:10.440 your entire night working on a girl who clearly isn't going to go home with you.
00:20:14.720 So yeah, I just, that transparency was huge.
00:20:17.880 And I loved that.
00:20:18.660 It was very sexy.
00:20:19.360 The problem with the pickup artist community in terms of finding wives is it's that woman
00:20:23.000 who is literally the worst woman for a pickup artist, the best woman for a guy who wants
00:20:29.020 to get married.
00:20:29.540 And so it led to really bad techniques being developed.
00:20:35.360 And here I note the final thing, the huge mistake that guys make is a big thing in pickup
00:20:40.500 artistry is looking dominant and fitting this aesthetic of masculinity.
00:20:46.980 And a lot of men online will shame other men for not fitting this aesthetic of masculinity.
00:20:52.860 They'll be like, oh, you know, you're not being masculine or buff in this way, or oh, you're
00:20:57.760 not being masculine or buff in this way.
00:21:00.060 That is a form of masturbation.
00:21:02.400 No different from video games in the eyes of high quality women of these quote unquote,
00:21:07.500 like masculine buff type guys.
00:21:09.720 I don't know a single one of them who has landed a high quality wife.
00:21:13.600 Like it just never happens.
00:21:16.100 And they'll go online and they'll shit on other guys for like acting fae or like, oh, I bet
00:21:21.300 he's gay or like whatever, you know, because that's how they built sort of their internal
00:21:26.140 structure.
00:21:27.060 Well, this obsession with appearance reeks of insecurity and women can sniff that out like
00:21:34.300 shark sniff blood.
00:21:35.400 And that's another reason why your honesty was so hot.
00:21:55.880 And why anyone's honesty is hot is that honesty reeks of confidence, which is the sexiest thing
00:22:01.660 you could possibly have.
00:22:02.700 It's so much more important than looks.
00:22:05.300 Yes.
00:22:05.720 And so I'd really, if guys see themselves as very masculine, very man-like, and that's
00:22:10.600 a very important part of their identity, I will say, and I know that this requires like
00:22:15.860 serious soul searching in terms of like, whether it's reading the pragmatist guide to life or
00:22:20.320 rethinking other things about your life.
00:22:21.980 If you are struggling to find high quality partners, that's likely why guys like this do
00:22:27.400 not get high quality partners almost ever.
00:22:30.100 Then you can be like, well, what about Andrew Tate?
00:22:31.860 And I was like, well, do you think his partners are that high quality?
00:22:34.340 Like, these are like bimbos.
00:22:35.880 Like, what are you talking about?
00:22:37.620 Would you actually be happy like having an intellectual discussion with them?
00:22:41.820 And you're like, well, you don't need to have an intellectual discussion with your wife.
00:22:45.040 And it's like, you better hope you plan to have an intellectual discussion with your
00:22:47.940 kids.
00:22:48.960 Because if you marry a woman who's a bimbo and an idiot, then your kids are going to be
00:22:52.320 bimbos and idiots.
00:22:54.280 Weak wives make weak sons.
00:22:55.940 OK, so that's not a good strategy.
00:23:00.240 And it just doesn't work.
00:23:01.040 It just doesn't work.
00:23:01.680 You can only get so many Andrew Tates.
00:23:02.960 You know what I mean?
00:23:03.920 So to the next thing, hypergamy.
00:23:06.700 All right.
00:23:07.260 So fundamentally, what causes hypergamy?
00:23:11.060 It is when a woman chooses a man, and there's this fear among a lot of men that like, if
00:23:17.600 you had my wife had a guy who had significantly more money than me, who was interested in you
00:23:23.720 and at an equal level of attraction or whatever, and you've had guys who I think have had hundreds
00:23:29.220 of millions of dollars interested in you or express interest, you might be too autistic
00:23:33.120 to notice.
00:23:33.900 I genuinely would be able to tell you, is this the only reason I haven't left you, Malcolm?
00:23:40.480 I can't pick up a hit.
00:23:43.520 But what people note here, and one guy was like, yeah, well, OK, he said this, and I
00:23:49.040 think that he sort of began to understand how you prevent hypergamy when he was going
00:23:53.400 through his, oh, yes, but he's like, look, when a woman finds a guy who has, let's say,
00:23:58.140 $5 more than her husband, and that guy will take her, she'll leave him for them.
00:24:03.960 And then the guy was like, well, yeah, but then you've got to like price in things like
00:24:07.140 starting the relationship over again, the risk of the new relationship.
00:24:10.480 Blah, blah, blah.
00:24:11.340 He's like, OK, OK, OK.
00:24:12.540 Once you price all that in, if they have marginally more money, they will take that.
00:24:17.980 And here you might be expecting me to say, no, they won't take that.
00:24:20.980 And I'd actually say, actually, yeah, most women will take that.
00:24:25.820 But that is because many men have not priced into their relationships the cost of leaving
00:24:35.820 them, i.e.
00:24:36.940 the structure of their relationships into the cost of leaving them.
00:24:40.460 So, for example, you could, and this often happens with guys and girls, and you were talking
00:24:45.880 about this, like a guy moves up in the world and with that brings a woman up in the world.
00:24:50.240 Maybe he becomes a congressman or something, right?
00:24:52.220 And then she ends up meeting some business tycoon at some fancy party.
00:24:56.040 And now, you know, she's no longer a waitress.
00:24:58.140 She's the wife of a.
00:24:59.420 And then I was at an event recently, a heritage foundation event, and there was a lawyer there
00:25:03.360 who's talking about how divorce can even become trendy in some communities and positively start
00:25:07.900 augmenting people's social status.
00:25:09.800 Like, well, if you don't have an ex, then you're not really, I mean, you're sort of scoogey,
00:25:13.560 you know what I mean?
00:25:14.660 And so when you have all of that, you can have people want to leave their partner with
00:25:20.240 only minimal cost to them, right?
00:25:23.020 It's like, well, you know, I'm staying at home.
00:25:24.740 And this is why stay-at-home wives are so likely to leave their husbands.
00:25:28.540 Because husbands are like, what?
00:25:29.620 I did everything.
00:25:30.360 I supported them.
00:25:31.140 And it's like, no, you created a life where they could just trade you out for anyone else
00:25:37.000 who was supporting them with an equal amount of money.
00:25:40.040 That is what you created.
00:25:41.420 And worse, they have a psychological belief in their head, if they don't have a new partner
00:25:48.460 lined up, which sometimes they don't, that they can secure the same type of partner that
00:25:53.540 they were dating when they first met you.
00:25:55.660 Now, this belief is wrong, but it can still lead them to leaving you and making really,
00:25:59.760 really dumb decisions that hurt you both.
00:26:02.260 Or, you know, their friends will be like, hey, you can get all that money.
00:26:05.840 You know, as they say, you know, in a divorce, as a lawyer was telling me this, it usually
00:26:09.100 goes half the money goes to the wife, a quarter goes to the lawyers, and a quarter goes to
00:26:12.620 the husband.
00:26:13.700 Oh, gosh, that's sad.
00:26:16.140 And this woman can get a stipend.
00:26:17.840 She doesn't need to listen to you anymore.
00:26:19.780 You know, she's on pay for the next.
00:26:21.740 This is a pretty good, like, okay.
00:26:24.320 So then you're like, how can you?
00:26:25.600 If you didn't have some kind of emotional investment in the relationship, like an ideological
00:26:30.520 or emotional investment, you'd be kind of dumb to not go for it.
00:26:36.020 It would be stupid to not.
00:26:40.300 So then a person can say, wait, you're making it seem very likely that a woman would leave
00:26:44.820 you, right?
00:26:45.740 It's like, no, if you do this trad thing, it's likely that a woman, like the Laura Thuzer
00:26:49.880 thing, right?
00:26:50.400 You know, she tried the whole trad thing, and then they broke up.
00:26:53.060 Or that Steven Crowder thing.
00:26:54.740 He was trying the whole trad thing, and they broke up.
00:26:57.000 But, you know, who knows if she, you know, overly exaggerated in the claims against him
00:27:02.360 and stuff like that.
00:27:03.120 I've heard that she might have, but, you know, there's the footage, so whatever.
00:27:07.000 The point being, I'm sure if you could get footage of the worst I'd ever been to Simone,
00:27:10.960 I mean, it wouldn't be like that, but I would look bad.
00:27:15.240 I'd be like, you know.
00:27:16.520 We all look bad when we're being dicks to each other.
00:27:20.160 I mean, what do you want to say?
00:27:21.560 The point here is, if you left me, both of us would have nothing.
00:27:29.620 The cost to leaving me, to you and me, is so catastrophic that no matter how much money
00:27:37.920 a guy had, it wouldn't be worth it.
00:27:41.000 Mm-hmm.
00:27:41.960 Because we have built a traditional corporate relationship, which means that my public identity
00:27:47.240 in your public identity and our public identities being ours.
00:27:51.780 So, for example, they're like, wait, you guys work in private equity.
00:27:54.320 Yeah, but we worked in private equity together.
00:27:56.300 We were co-CEOs of our companies.
00:27:58.340 We co-raised money for our funds.
00:28:01.560 They're like, well, you guys are well-known public figures.
00:28:03.980 Together.
00:28:04.520 We have a joint Wikipedia page.
00:28:06.000 I don't know anyone else with a joint Wikipedia page.
00:28:08.440 How do you get divorced if you have a joint Wikipedia page?
00:28:11.100 We've written all our books together.
00:28:13.240 We do our podcast together.
00:28:15.240 I want your thoughts on this.
00:28:16.660 The marriages I've seen fell apart, and some of them even include marriages that I just
00:28:20.320 thought were the dream marriages of, you know, the parents of my friends who I thought were
00:28:26.240 just perfect together.
00:28:27.760 Mm-hmm.
00:28:28.560 They resulted from a lack of ideological alignment of the relationship being of two people living
00:28:38.480 their own lives rather than a team fighting toward a shared goal.
00:28:43.060 when you marry someone because you want a partner, someone, a friend, someone to keep you company,
00:28:48.820 someone to raise your kids, someone to clean your house, someone to make money for you so
00:28:53.620 you can keep a house, that often isn't ideologically aligned.
00:29:00.560 It's not, the incentives aren't aligned, and you can drift apart from that person really,
00:29:05.580 really easily.
00:29:06.660 That's why.
00:29:08.700 It's not for me.
00:29:10.660 I actually think it would be fairly easy for us to part ways, logistically speaking,
00:29:15.380 and at least for me to have a career.
00:29:17.880 I think being a white man and trying to get a career is really scary these days, but like
00:29:21.320 if I had, you know, no attachment to you and you suddenly became terrible to me, it would
00:29:27.500 not be a problem for me to leave you, period.
00:29:29.360 Like, it's just that easy.
00:29:30.560 And I think everyone, like, this is why men are afraid to get married.
00:29:33.980 The reason I-
00:29:34.640 This is a really good point.
00:29:35.920 So, so I, yeah, I could have been wrong in what keeps you with me, which is what you're
00:29:41.360 You are wrong.
00:29:42.200 I am wrong, okay.
00:29:43.200 So, so it's that what really puts a marriage at risk, and this is a problem for a lot of
00:29:48.720 trad individuals, is they marry somebody who has chosen to marry you, not because of you,
00:29:55.120 but because you allow them to fulfill a role, i.e.
00:29:58.000 They really wanted to be a mom.
00:29:59.760 They really wanted to be a stay-at-home wife.
00:30:01.620 They really wanted to be a, and you functionalize that role.
00:30:05.740 And this is a huge problem.
00:30:06.760 Like, if you're like a trad Mormon or a trad cat or like a trad, you know, you will find
00:30:11.220 a lot of women like that who aren't marrying you for a shared mission, but are marrying
00:30:16.660 you so they can perform a role.
00:30:19.160 And that means that you are interchangeable for anyone who makes that role incrementally
00:30:24.320 easier.
00:30:25.080 Or not even interchangeable.
00:30:27.180 You will become irrelevant if their desired role changes, or if you fail to maintain that
00:30:37.180 role yourself.
00:30:38.100 Well, I mean, I think the really scary thing for guys is they can maintain the role, but
00:30:43.480 somebody else can maintain it better.
00:30:45.160 That's true.
00:30:45.740 Yeah, that's, that's the third way this can go wrong.
00:30:48.120 No, the, the, I would not leave you because not, I mean, not only do I, like, am I over
00:30:54.600 the moon for you and I love you and I'll see you just get hotter every day and I don't
00:30:57.660 know why.
00:30:58.380 There's just so many things that I absolutely adore about you.
00:31:01.220 It's because there, I cannot fathom a more effective way to achieve my objective function
00:31:11.680 than by working in tandem with you.
00:31:13.940 That I will be significantly worse off at maximizing my values if I'm working without
00:31:21.480 you.
00:31:21.780 And I think this, there's something similar for you, you know, without me, your impact
00:31:26.940 in life would be so much less.
00:31:28.960 And for that reason, we are a very strong team.
00:31:32.640 We are more impactful together.
00:31:34.120 And there's a very strong disincentive for us to not work together because working alone,
00:31:39.700 we achieve 20% of what we achieve working together.
00:31:43.500 And that's the big thing.
00:31:45.200 Well, I mean, but that's the cost thing.
00:31:47.320 Like you say, it's not a cost to leaving me, but a cost to leaving me is that you are less
00:31:51.380 efficient at achieving your goal.
00:31:54.720 And you would price that in.
00:31:56.940 Yeah, but most couples I'm in it, I'm talking about a scenario in which that wasn't the case.
00:32:02.300 Like we weren't ideologically aligned in which case logistically, like from a perspective
00:32:07.020 of me having an easy life and having the income I need to, you know, meet my needs.
00:32:12.620 Like there's no problem there.
00:32:14.240 And that's how most people are thinking that that's majority of couples, as you know, I
00:32:19.300 mean, have you talked to a person recently?
00:32:20.880 Like, you know, we, we do this all the time are not ideologically aligned there.
00:32:24.420 They often are, you know, smart, wonderful people who love each other very much and are
00:32:30.280 nice and like get along well.
00:32:32.260 And people typically think, oh, there goes a really nice couple.
00:32:35.220 But if they are not ideologically aligned and essential to the other person to help them
00:32:43.700 achieve their life's purpose, the relationship is on thin ice.
00:32:49.820 Right.
00:32:50.540 Well, and that's something that is a result of the first thing that we talked about.
00:32:55.060 And it's why it's good to have these two conversations together, which is you chose me
00:32:58.720 because I had a purpose in life that you could understand and logically agree with and what
00:33:04.600 you're a part of.
00:33:05.280 Yeah.
00:33:05.500 More importantly, you had a purpose in life and it 100% aligned with what I valued.
00:33:10.020 My, like I wrote in my diary after I met you, after our first date about how mad I was
00:33:15.720 that I wasn't you because you got it as far as I was concerned and you were doing such a
00:33:22.140 better job than I was.
00:33:23.080 Like you had thought through things so much better than I had.
00:33:26.340 You knew what you were doing, you were on your way and I was just so pissed that I wasn't
00:33:30.380 you.
00:33:31.080 And I think that's another really good sign.
00:33:32.800 It's like, oh, like this is a, this is a force multiplier of me.
00:33:36.040 Like I want to be them as a much better instinct to have with a potential life partner than I
00:33:41.800 want to be with them or I want to, I want to have sex with them.
00:33:44.620 I want to be them is like, that's, that's who you want to marry.
00:33:48.620 That's someone you admire.
00:33:49.960 That's someone who can help you achieve your goals in life.
00:33:52.100 Like that is, that is something beautiful.
00:33:53.880 And I still, I'm still just so glad you exist.
00:33:57.080 You're so wonderful.
00:33:58.280 Here, the truth is, and this is what makes dating so hard is you really do need to, you
00:34:03.040 cannot, and I think so many guys try this, is they try to accommodate women who are in
00:34:07.460 the urban monoculture rather than shock women in the urban monoculture, out of the urban monoculture
00:34:12.420 to try for something more and bigger.
00:34:14.500 And this accommodating approach to dating, I think leads to really negative outcomes, as
00:34:20.940 negative as the trad outcomes, because you're like, okay, we're going to like compromise
00:34:25.260 our beliefs about the world till we can kind of work together because both of us want to
00:34:29.960 be married and like have a kid or something.
00:34:31.760 Right.
00:34:32.340 Which is very different.
00:34:33.640 You need personal belief system that you have so much conviction in that it sort of shocks
00:34:39.140 them out of this poorly sought through urban monoculture framework, which is the reason
00:34:45.240 why when people are like, oh, I want to date, which of your books do I read?
00:34:47.800 Is it the pragmatist guide to relationships or the pragmatist guide to sexuality?
00:34:50.200 I'm like, it's the pragmatist guide to life.
00:34:51.560 That's the one you need to read to be good at dating.
00:34:53.680 Yes.
00:34:54.800 Anyway, I really hope that this helps somebody and that you don't make these mistakes because
00:34:59.300 it is so easy to do.
00:35:02.440 Yeah.
00:35:04.260 Which is funny because I think for the vast majority of human history, people have been
00:35:09.740 getting together for the reasons we describe.
00:35:11.760 You know, it's like, hey, we want, we're fighting for the same thing.
00:35:15.440 This is a sensible partnership.
00:35:18.080 We shall marry.
00:35:19.980 So, oh well.
00:35:21.440 But I agree.
00:35:22.300 I love you.
00:35:23.280 Broadly boasts why it's not just the progressive marriages that are struggling.
00:35:26.940 It's also the conservative and tribe marriages and a lot of people.
00:35:31.500 And it's so heartbreaking to me.
00:35:32.880 They're like, but I was earning good money and I was supporting my wife and kids.
00:35:36.260 Why would she leave me?
00:35:37.480 And it's like, well, because she can, she can leave you and she can get a stipend for
00:35:41.320 the rest of her life and she can do whatever she wants.
00:35:43.480 And she doesn't need to make you meals anymore.
00:35:44.860 And she can screw the pool boy.
00:35:46.840 Like, why wouldn't she leave you?
00:35:48.080 You did nothing to integrate her into your mission for life.
00:35:51.540 And there are ways a stay at home wife can be integrated into a man's mission for life.
00:35:56.560 But it's hard and it's risky and it's nuanced.
00:36:00.800 You are threading the needle.
00:36:02.440 You can't just serve a role.
00:36:04.060 If you just serve a role, you've done the single most risky thing you can in terms of
00:36:08.600 the structuring of a marriage.
00:36:10.420 Anyway, am I going to look really stupid when you leave me in a year for hot rich guy who's
00:36:16.280 into you?
00:36:17.780 You are hot.
00:36:19.120 Like, I just, I can't, you know that like if you were to die, for example, and you're
00:36:24.440 not allowed to do that, by the way, there would be no replacement.
00:36:28.780 There would be.
00:36:29.720 There should be.
00:36:30.800 Your life would be harder without one.
00:36:32.800 No, there's just, there's no replacing you.
00:36:35.100 And I would not.
00:36:36.320 Like, I'm saying you should find another husband if I die.
00:36:40.440 Well, I'm not going to, cause I think like all, all humans disgust me.
00:36:44.180 And for some reason you, you're my human.
00:36:47.420 So.
00:36:48.240 Well, what about our kids?
00:36:49.260 Don't they need a dad?
00:36:51.760 They'll just watch your podcasts and I'll, you know, beat them up more.
00:36:55.360 You'll, you'll synthesize one through an AI.
00:36:58.040 Yeah.
00:36:58.600 I'll just make an AI Malcolm.
00:36:59.980 It's fine.
00:37:01.220 So yeah, that's how I feel about you.
00:37:04.060 There is no replacing you.
00:37:05.660 I know that girl replaced me right away.
00:37:07.780 I'd replace you right away.
00:37:09.340 I know.
00:37:09.800 I know.
00:37:11.080 Yeah.
00:37:11.840 Who's, who's the, who's the hypergamous one now?
00:37:15.360 Who's the one who's, who's not faithful now?
00:37:17.920 Huh?
00:37:18.580 Huh?
00:37:18.860 Wait, would you not want me to replace you?
00:37:20.360 No, I would.
00:37:21.080 I, yeah.
00:37:21.480 I really want our kids to have someone who.
00:37:25.160 You're like, look, I can do both of the jobs.
00:37:28.100 You don't do laundry.
00:37:28.980 You don't do both of the jobs.
00:37:29.700 I admit that.
00:37:31.060 Yeah.
00:37:31.500 The house would be in shambles.
00:37:34.040 I, I, no, I would be turning in my grave.
00:37:37.140 Which, no, please cremate me and turn it into diamonds.
00:37:40.640 So our children can wear their mother and be creepy about it.
00:37:45.420 I'm really excited for that.
00:37:47.300 All right.
00:37:47.940 Love you, Simone.
00:37:48.920 Love you too.
00:37:49.540 Simone.
00:37:49.900 Hey, thank you for efficient use of time there, by the way.
00:37:52.680 Zoe, I'm going to handle the chickens after this, before I pick up the kids.
00:37:56.280 Oh, and your Christmas present to me has finally arrived.
00:38:01.060 What is it?
00:38:02.220 You'll find out, won't you?
00:38:04.840 I'm so excited.
00:38:05.500 She buys presents from me to her because I'm not, you know, the best.
00:38:10.220 I buy the presents for everyone in the family, but Malcolm still, with his discretionary income,
00:38:14.880 pays for them because he pays the exact same amount that I pay for him.
00:38:19.700 And the same goes for our kids.
00:38:21.300 So, so no one in the family receives more in monetary value and gifts than anyone else.
00:38:26.060 I don't pay what you're receiving more.
00:38:28.240 This is just your weird neuroses.
00:38:29.900 I believe in equitable spending across the family.
00:38:34.940 Thank you very much.
00:38:35.880 So there it goes.
00:38:38.700 All right.
00:38:39.860 I'm excited to be here.
00:38:41.560 Sorry.
00:38:42.420 Stop doing that.
00:38:43.520 This is why, you know, this is why Octavian had that irritated lip issue.
00:38:47.300 He kept licking his lips.
00:38:48.340 You need to stop.
00:38:49.620 Is this where he got it from?
00:38:51.180 Malcolm, stop.
00:38:51.860 I got it.
00:38:53.160 It's so dry.
00:38:54.620 You know what?
00:38:55.060 I'm going to put the same bitter, like, skin thing on your lips that we had to put on his,
00:39:00.560 if you keep this up.
00:39:02.000 Okay.
00:39:02.540 Okay.
00:39:02.700 Put it on you when you're asleep.
00:39:03.940 You won't, you won't have an escape because you are a deep sleeper.
00:39:07.220 So watch out.
00:39:08.400 Okay.
00:39:08.840 If I see you doing this again.
00:39:10.800 Uh-oh.
00:39:11.460 Uh-oh.
00:39:12.420 Uh-oh.
00:39:12.640 Yeah.
00:39:12.820 We got a terrifying life here.
00:39:14.660 You see, it's not all, what are the guns and roses?
00:39:17.180 Um, it's not all guns and roses.
00:39:22.320 It's not a traditionalist American thing.
00:39:28.060 It's sunshine and rainbows.
00:39:30.420 Oh, okay.
00:39:32.720 Why would some people want rainbows and sunshine?
00:39:35.220 No, guns and roses is the same thing.
00:39:41.740 What would I do without you, Malcolm?
00:39:43.580 Thank you for insisting.
00:39:44.800 We mentioned that because, you know, so many people were at NadalCon looking for a potential
00:39:50.620 husband or wife, that we'd start doing ads for women who are looking for a husband and
00:39:56.020 happen to be watching.
00:39:56.780 The reason we do it for women and not men is because most of our audience is men.
00:39:59.720 So most of the people who are going to be hearing this are going to be men.
00:40:02.840 And many of them will be single and potentially interested in marrying someone.
00:40:06.860 So if this person sounds interesting to you and you live in their area, you can email us
00:40:12.520 and we'll pass it on.
00:40:13.680 A creative young woman, 25, living in NYC and capable of managing money, conversing,
00:40:20.600 dancing, and all together making a calm, happy home.
00:40:23.840 Wishes to obtain an introduction to a sober, hardworking gentleman, not greatly her senior,
00:40:28.720 who delights in having children underfoot and is eager to build a lighthouse on the
00:40:33.060 sands of time.
00:40:34.100 Must be a practicing Jew.
00:40:35.900 Object, matrimonial alliance.
00:40:37.740 Part two.
00:40:37.960 Part one.
00:40:39.020 It's in a certain way.
00:40:39.480 Yes.
00:40:39.740 Yes.
00:40:40.520 I can't have a diesem.
00:40:40.760 Part one.
00:40:40.980 It's in a certain way.
00:40:41.240 No?
00:40:41.700 No.
00:40:42.320 It's in it.
00:40:42.380 It's in it.
00:40:42.820 All right.
00:40:43.000 Something KH codes.
00:40:44.040 Teaching, Ettore hope.
00:40:44.920 Buzz Bartone.
00:40:45.280 That way he threw me in it.
00:40:46.940 I'm never pleased.
00:40:47.340 It's such a weird show.
00:40:48.220 The play Cheng dot.
00:40:49.100 It.
00:40:49.140 It's amazing.
00:40:49.880 Come miejsc hold
00:40:54.120 Since spectators.
00:40:54.140 Here Ició.
00:40:54.880 That way I'm gonna check back home.
00:40:56.320 Well, it's lifelong to the creature.
00:40:58.580 ift of a fingerprint.
00:40:58.620 So how can I walk.