Debate： Are Progressives Genocidal Maniacs Who Hate Diversity？
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about progressive ideas and their impact on the culture, and how they affect our understanding of the world. We talk about the role that intersectionality plays in progressive culture and how it affects the way we see the world, and why we should be concerned about it.
Transcript
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you've got to understand how literally insane it sounds to be a cultural group that says diversity
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is a thing of value and everyone's actually the same. What they mean by diversity, and this is
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very important, is that we are open to recruiting people into our cultural group from any other
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cultural group. They don't really value diversity. What they value is diversity in victims.
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Oh, I don't know. See, yeah, I was going to say, I think the difference here is the role that
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intersectionality plays in progressive culture. But also, I think that that's what we're missing
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is cultural outsiders, is that diversity is not diversity, it's intersectionality.
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It is victimhood status. And that's one view. And progressive culture is not a monolith.
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It is a monolith. I'm sorry, in what way is it not a monolith? Explain.
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Well, because I do think that there are many people who identify as progressives who don't
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agree with every element of it. Yeah, but you're just on the outside. This is what your cultural
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group actually believes at the highest levels. And this is what your cultural group will try to
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enforce on the surrounding cultural groups, regardless of whether or not it's something
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that you personally identify with. And I think that that's, that's really, this is like you go to a
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Nazi. And he's like, well, I'm not anti-Semitic. Malcolm, you're not being fair. Why are you so
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unwilling? Anyway. Why am I so unwilling to morally compromise? If you're okay with a cultural
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group that's out there that's using our school system to systematically erase everyone who thinks
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differently than them. And if it was literally any group other than yours doing that, you'd be like,
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oh, this is like the most evil thing anyone can do. I'd really, you know, encourage some self
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reflection. Your arguments and your wording are not going to engage people. Would you like to know
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more? The progressive party, like it talks about diversity a lot. Like it says diversity is
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important. And yet in, in two ways, it seems to have a systemic hatred and denial of diversity.
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So way number one is it says different groups are not actually different. Different cultural groups
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are different. Different ethnic groups aren't different, different. Nobody's different.
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Everyone's actually exactly the same. And it's like, there's not even, you know,
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men and women are exactly the same. But, but it's also super important that you respect people
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when they decide that they're a different gender. Why would any of this matter if we're all exactly
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the same? This is so interesting. And it's such an incongruous part of this sort of progressive
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world perspective, which is, I don't know. It's very difficult for me to, to like really grok
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Well, I think that it's interesting because progressivism in general, as it exists today,
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is full of paradoxes. And it's not just about diversity. It's also about freedom. Like I grew up
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thinking, you know, and I'm living in a very progressive culture that progressivism was all
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about freedom, freedom to choose what partner you wanted, freedom to choose how you dressed,
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what you said, how you acted, who you could become, you know, you can be anyone you want,
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any gender you want, anything, anything, whatever, you know, you are free to choose.
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And what I find to be really interesting is the extent to which it's actually quite the opposite
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there. Like it's actually pretty coercive and that no, actually you can't, you can't do things
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that offend these groups. You can't actually, I was just listening to a podcast covering an element
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of the furry community and the furry community was talking about how it's super, super not okay
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to watch. I think what they referred to as, as feral erotic material, we're going to say,
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you know, like, I guess video footage or illustrations of animals banging each other
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because that's, you know, coercive, which, which is weird because if you're a furry, you might be like
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more likely to be turned on by something like that.
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Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So I will word this because I think that our viewers may not
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understand what you just said. It's really interesting, but it immediately makes sense to me.
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What they're saying is that in the furry community, these are people who like to dress up as animals
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and hit on other people, dress up like animals. They think it's not a sexual thing.
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And there's a subset, of course, that also is species dysmorphic, meaning that they actually
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Yes. Yes. So that's a subset, a small subset, but yeah, anyway.
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It's considered immoral to watch videos of the animal that you identify with having sex with that
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same animal. But the reason it's considered immoral, this is what's fascinating. The reason
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it's considered immoral is because there wasn't consent. There wasn't consent when those two
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animals decided to have sex with each other. It's not because you're watching an animal have sex.
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That's not what they find disgusting. It's because there wasn't consent when the animals decided to
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I guess. Yeah. I guess that's the issue at hand. But yeah, I just find it so interesting that I would
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think that the furry community, for example, that to me is like a really big bastion of progressivism
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in general, right? Like a very, very small proportion of the community identifies as right,
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let alone hard right, right? This is supposed to be very-
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Yeah. I was in a blocked and reported podcast. I was just listening to you about that. They talked
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about a survey in that space. And so it's also, it's one of those things where you have to be
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really comfortable with being seen as weird to dress up in an anthropomorphized costume and dance
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around and do all that stuff, right? So it's just so interesting to me that in a community like that,
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where you would think that it is like the epitome of being accepting, of accepting differences,
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of accepting deviance from what is normative. And most people just think that's pretty weird.
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And in fact, I was listening to another podcast called Ruthless, which is more like a conservative
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political podcast. And they were basically just saying, if it's a furry, arrest them immediately,
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charge them, book them. So this is clearly something that's not accepted. And yet, and yet this
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community is still shaming people for being aroused by things that frankly, it's not a reflection of
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their morals. It's not a reflection of, and there are people, there are TikToks that were shared in
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this podcast of people basically saying, you know, you either need to get help or you need to be
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like eliminated, like basically die. And that's, you know, people in this kind of community can say
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that. I think that's just, it really exemplifies the many paradoxes. So we should also talk about
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why conservatives think it's so disgusting to have sex with animals, because this is a really
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interesting thing to me. The reason why conservatives, so when we're talking about conservatives,
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what are conservatives as we define them? They're people who want their cultural group to
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survive intergenerationally and into the future. And most of them come from some form of traditional
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cultural group. Most of the traditional cultural groups that have been successful are the ones that
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sort of outbred their, their nearby rivals. And one of the ways they've done this is by shaming sex
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with animals. This was not an animal welfare thing. You know, if you're talking to somebody 2000 years
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ago, and they're like, don't the person who has sex with a sheep is disgusting. They're also
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slaughtering the sheep. So, you know, it's not like the worst thing you're going to do.
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Yeah, no, they didn't evolve this cultural belief because they cared about the sheep.
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They evolved this cultural belief because people who had sex with sheep, you know, put less time into
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their partners, finding a partner. They got more diseases. They introduced more diseases to the
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community. It was, it was completely about fertility and health. And in a way that is why it was in
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today's culture, if you are trying to determine what should we see as like a cultural group,
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what should we see as, as disgusting as having sex with a sheep, what we should see is that, you know,
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we apply the same evolutionary pressures is people who treat pets like their kids. If somebody says,
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this is my child's dog, you know, what they are saying is I am using this dog to masturbate my
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instinct to have kids and through that lowering my fertility rate. And, and I guess what I'm saying
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is in the future, you know, assuming genetic technology didn't exist, which sort of changes
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all the rules of the game, but if genetic technology didn't exist within 500 years, we would see claiming
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that a dog or a cat is your child in any context is, is literally as disgusting and as socially
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isolatable as having sex with a dog or a cat. But let's go back to diversity. So it does blow my
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mind because like I, I did, you know, it, it's so interesting that, that beneath, and you've,
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you've said this many times, right? Like when you look at progressive groups of all the different
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colors of the rainbow, you know, Jewish progressive groups and Christian and Muslim and all the other
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progressive groups, they basically all hold the same general values. Everyone goes to heaven and
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everything's going to be okay. You know, whatever you like all these sorts of things there, there just
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isn't a lot of difference. And then when you look at conservative cultures, there is a lot of
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diversity. And like, how could that possibly be when supposedly diversity is a value of progressive?
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I think that the secret here is that it never was that progressive was about diversity.
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What they mean by diversity, and this is very important is that we are open to recruiting people
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into our cultural groups from any other cultural groups.
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Anyone? Oh, so that's interesting. And that's, so that's really a sign of, if we're using terminology
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from the Pragmatist Guide to Crafting Religion, it is a dominating culture, right? So its goal
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is that, you know, the world isn't okay until everyone is saved. We have to save and we have to convert
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everyone. So until, you know, basically the world is a caliphate of our religion.
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Yeah, yeah. We don't care if you're gay or straight or black or white or Jewish or Muslim. You can join us.
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Being super straight is not okay in all progressive circles, but sure.
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Interesting idea there, right? So super straight is something that was like a fad online, I think for a bit,
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which was basically saying, I am only attracted to people who were born the gender that I am attracted to.
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I am not attracted to trans people. And yeah, I think again, they don't really mean that you can
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have any sexuality you want to have when, when, when they're telling you what they mean is that you
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need to see sexuality in the way they see sexuality, which they see as consistent with maximum choice
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More importantly, what you're saying is, is it doesn't, they want everyone to convert. It doesn't
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matter who you are, where you're starting from, but you do need to convert and you do need to hold
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our values. So it may not matter if you start off as super straight, as long as you end up
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like part of the, as long as you eventually, it doesn't matter where you started, as long as you
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But I think, yeah, that's that. I think that really helps to explain it to me. Cause I did feel
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confused as to like why progressive culture could be so homogenous and really essentially anti-diversity
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because they're anti any culture that doesn't hold their values. Right. They feel like they
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need to be reformed. They need to be saved, but you're right. It's, it's more just that everyone
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needs to join, which kind of implies, well, I guess, yeah, now that I compare it to all the
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other dominating cultures that also believe everyone should be converted. It's, it's no different.
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They also think that those people like in, let's say, you know, a dominating culture that thinks
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that homosexuality is bad. Right. So then, you know, it's, it's, you can, of course, gay people
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should join and they should also turn straight. It's that simple or we'll throw you off a building,
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but whatever. Right. And so, yeah. And actually that I look at it that way,
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or they just, it's just like a very conservative talking about some Muslim groups. They would
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accept gay people as well, but they would say, but you need to undergo fourth gender conversion.
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Yeah. Yeah. But I guess the point here that we're making is this is something that, that
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progressives really seem to misunderstand about conservative groups. If they have many ways of dealing
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with gender, sexuality, stuff like that. Right. If you're same sex attracted people within one
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conservative cultural group, they may say, well, you should sublimate that. Within another
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cultural group, they may say, oh, we'll put you in a priesthood, like a celibate priesthood
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class. I was just talking about Catholics right there. But then the Muslim cultural group,
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they'll say, oh, well, you should undergo gender conversion. Yeah. Yeah. There's lots of ways
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that people, it's not that these groups deny that same sex attracted people exist. There's just
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different cultural solutions to it. We bring up this point so frequently for two core reasons.
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One is that we actually agree, like our cultural group, the one that Simone and I live within,
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actually agrees that the progressive solution to same sex attracted people, to let them marry and
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date people of the same gender, is the solution that we practice, that we would practice for our
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kids. But just because we believe that doesn't mean that we have the right to try to erase the
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perspectives of other cultures. And when you as a progressive or someone like me goes into these
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other cultures and I say, well, your solutions are less efficient, it ends up hurting people.
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You know, how is that any different than going out and telling, you know, a Jewish person,
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you can't circumcise your kids? You know, that, that, that, that, that hurts the kids and that
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therefore that is child abuse and you shouldn't be allowed to do that. And, you know, we will use
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the government to prevent you from doing this, which is actually something that some progressive
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groups are doing right now. It's very easy to justify if you can say, oh, this group is hurting
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its, its citizens, right? By taking this cultural perspective, then therefore we have the right
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to stamp that out. The problem is, is that if any of these other cultural groups was in power right
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now, you know, whether it's today would be considered a conservative Christian group or
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conservative Jewish group or conservative any group, right? They would say that you were hurting
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people through like the trans surgeries or through even gay marriages that they would say that that
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like morally hurts people, right? So you can't just say I get to stamp this out because it hurts
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people, right? Because anyone can use that justification. Evil people have always used that
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justification. The ethical way to allow situations like this to resolve that doesn't allow your own
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cultural bias to justify genocide against another cultural group or genocide of a particular cultural
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practice is to say we will create an environment in which kids who grow up within that cultural group
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can leave that cultural group or choose not to carry on those practices if they don't like them
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or don't think they're efficacious. So let's go back to the Jewish example. If a kid who was circumcised
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ends up believing that circumcision was bad and hurt them, then they won't do that to their own kids.
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Or they might even decide that they have so much animosity towards the cultural group that allowed
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them to happen to them, the Jewish cultural group, that they just leave that cultural group.
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However, it's important to note here that even if the plurality of people from a cultural group end
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up saying, okay, I'm not going to end up practicing circumcision anymore because that hurt me. If it
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turns out that that has perfect overlap with the portion of the group that is unable to motivate
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reproduction within themselves, it's unable to say, okay, I'm going to go out there and have kids
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and raise them within this new cultural context I'm creating. Well, I think you've shown that thing
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that we think was evil or bad in some way must have had some utility because it was what enabled the
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intergenerational transfer of a cultural system and in some way was tied to whatever led some people
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of that cultural group to make the enormous investment, which is child rearing at above
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reproductive rate. You know, raising four or five kids is an enormous financial and emotional burden.
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And it may turn out that somehow these practices, which some people in the cultural group felt hurt
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them, were actually really key in motivating that. So there is a way of dealing with this outside of
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going out and stamping out cultural groups. It's just to create an environment in which kids are free
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to leave those cultural groups. And the second point that we're really trying to make here is
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there is this perspective that there is a progressive view on same-sex attracted people.
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And then there's this homogenous conservative view, which isn't true. Progressives are just one of like
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a bunch of different ways that cultural groups relate to same-sex attracted individuals. And we believe
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those individuals should be protected whatever cultural solution they choose for themselves,
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once they're no longer relying on their parents for financial support. However, right now, if we look
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at the way things are being taught within our education system or within popular media, it's very
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clear that it is taught this is the right way to be a same-sex attracted individual. And all of these
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other panoply of different cultural ways of relating to same-sex attracted individuals that conservative
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people have is the evil way of relating to this and the wrong way of relating to this. And it is for
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this reason, and primarily for this reason, that we are justified in wiping out these cultural
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groups. That's why we keep coming back to sexuality, because it's the core thing that progressives use
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to justify their superiority to other cultural groups, because they believe that it's just such
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a superior solution, the one that they have, and that it justifies them utilizing things like the
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educational system to attempt to wipe out these other cultural groups, because these groups are evil.
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But it's important to remember that nobody in the history of any form of cultural genocide has
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ever said, oh, we're trying to wipe out like a weak group or a group that's in any way equal to us.
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They always see them as evil. They always see the cultural group that they're wiping out as
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somehow a threat to them, as somehow actually controlling all of society, as somehow this big
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boogeyman. That's the way cultural genocides work.
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And again, we actually, our cultural group, the one that Simone and I are a part of, actually agree
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was a progressive way of relating to same-sex attracted individuals. But we also recognize
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that our culture is just one hypothesis about the way that humans should live. And we don't judge the
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righteousness of another culture by how close to us they are in their beliefs, but by whether or not
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they believe that those beliefs give them the justification to erase other cultural groups.
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And to Simone's point, what we're saying there is that when you look at a progressive Jew or a
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progressive Muslim or a progressive Catholic or a progressive Calvinist, right? Not that those exist
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really, but if you look at them, they hypothetically existed. You know, they have broadly the same views
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on gender, on sexuality, on the way we should relate to the environment, on what a human's future should
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be, on what a moral versus immoral action is, on when life starts, on everything. They have basically
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the same views on everything. They are one culture wearing the aesthetic shell of other cultures, where
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when you're looking at conservative iterations of all those traditions, they have a really, really,
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And I think here's the interesting thing, though, is that the common factor really is the dominating
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element of it. And the only thing that really makes progressivism feel, but not act very different
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from a very conservative, dominating religious culture, is that people wear different costumes within
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But I think that this is, again, why the cultural group, because to a non-progressive,
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you, if you are somebody who's in that cultural group and you're watching this and doesn't make
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sense to you, you've got to understand how literally insane it sounds to be a cultural
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group that says diversity is a thing of value and everyone's actually the same. There are no
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differences between groups of people in any way. There's no ethnic differences between
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groups of people. There's no cultural differences. It is sinful to say that, for example, isn't
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it odd that Jews win Nobel Prizes at a rate like a 10,000% higher when contrasted with their
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population? Isn't it, you know, the Catholics get Supreme Court positions at a really higher
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rate, isn't it? You're not allowed to even voice these things because to them, equality means that
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nobody's different. But then why does diversity matter? Why is diversity a thing of value
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if we are not different? If people are not different, then diversity is just an aesthetic
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choice. It's like the colors you're using on a palette or something. And the answer, again,
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should be obvious given where the conversation has gone before. It's because they don't really
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value diversity. What they value is diversity in victims.
00:21:29.120
Oh, I don't know. See, yeah, I was going to say, I think the difference here is the role that
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intersectionality plays in progressive culture, where in progressive culture, dominance hierarchies,
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like the, the extent to which you can play the intersectionality Olympics can determine your
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status within the community. That seems reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but interestingly,
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it determines your status within the community, not based on any special abilities it grants you,
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right? So if you look at our worldview, you know, we see different cultures. It's having
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different specialties. There's things they might be better at than other cultural groups.
00:22:06.700
Well, that's a value judgment, Malcolm. I think that, that for many people, the, the degree of
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their historical... It's not a value judgment. It's an objective fact.
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No, well, no, no. No, it's a objective fact that some cultural groups outcompete other cultural groups
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Yeah, but that's, that's not a, that's not a value in progressive culture because what,
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what they're looking at is, is systemic bias that someone has endured, elevates their,
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their social status in a way that may be like in Catholicism, the extent of your martyrdom,
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like the amount, the amount that you suffered for God will elevate your status.
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Right. Because they're not looking for efficacy. They...
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Right. But that's, that's, and that's fine. Like some cultures don't care about efficacy the
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way that we do. So I'm just saying like, you're making...
00:22:47.180
No, no, no, no. But, but the point being is where you're saying that there are differences
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in the way progressives relate to different cultures, they relate to different cultures in a way
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where they value cultures that can argue to have endured more suffering or be more,
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you know, systemically unstable in any way, like endure ongoing suffering, I guess you could say,
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more than cultural groups that don't. And they, they achieve a position within their status hierarchy.
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And this is because it's a status hierarchy that is based around the idea that every human's goal
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should be to remove all pain from the world. Yeah. And so those who have experienced more pain,
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either personally or systemically, historically, you know, deserve to, to be in a position of
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elevation to have accelerated pain removal. Yeah. They, they, they get higher in the line
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for the pain removal surgery. Yeah. But also I think that, that, that, that's what we're missing
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as cultural outsiders is that diversity is not diversity. It's intersectionality. It, it is,
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it is victimhood status, which, which often correlates very highly with minority community
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status historically or presently. Okay. And, and with the way that you and I view diversity is.
00:24:02.060
But hold on, I would say that's not true. Okay, go on. Okay. So there's, there's two answers to
00:24:08.620
the word minority in the population that small society, but that's not the way progressives
00:24:16.820
often use it. When they say minority, they mean black people. There's many groups that are much
00:24:22.600
more discriminated against and much smaller portions of the population in the U S and black people
00:24:27.620
that progressives policy wise seem to not really give a shit about. And I think that that's important
00:24:34.360
to know that when they say minority, and this is actually when we're talking about fertility
00:24:38.380
rates, we see this all the time. Right. So I talked to progressives about fertility rates
00:24:42.360
and they go, is it affecting minority populations? And I'm like, yes, look at the U S right. Native
00:24:48.920
American populations have one of the lowest fertility rates of any group. And they're like, sorry, but
00:24:53.980
people in Africa are still having lots of kids. And I'm like, I don't see what that fucking has to do
00:24:58.620
with native Americans. And they're like, no, minorities are fine. I'm like, Oh, when you say minority,
00:25:05.460
you mean only black people, you don't care about anything that's affecting any, I don't know.
00:25:14.400
I'm going to push back a little bit. I don't know to what extent that's true. I think that,
00:25:18.220
that people in progressive circles very much care about native American populations. I just think that
00:25:24.460
they have less cultural capital and less of a currently elevated narrative and therefore suffering as a
00:25:31.700
result and people, you know, like what's right in front of them. And it's just, but no, I, I disagree.
00:25:37.060
I think that I disagree with you there. I think that they would tell themselves they care about
00:25:42.380
native American populations. I have not seen a major progressive campaign. If you look at the plight of
00:25:47.460
many native American incentives aren't there, there isn't a large voting base, like to your point,
00:25:54.640
And that is the point, right? If minority to you means only the populations that are useful in
00:26:01.420
winning the next election cycle, then you don't actually care about minorities.
00:26:08.040
Again, I really question you're saying, remember like when we even talk about demographics,
00:26:13.420
right? Like native American populations are ballooning. Why is that? Because a ton of people
00:26:17.940
in the name of intersectionality, but also, you know, all the benefits.
00:26:21.520
Sorry, sorry. We should clarify what she means here. The native American fertility rates are going
00:26:27.720
The more people are identifying as native American because they're like one 25th native American,
00:26:33.580
because if you say that you've native American heritage, then you can get a bunch of benefits,
00:26:38.120
both like from a cultural intersectionality standpoint, but also in terms of like college
00:26:41.960
admissions, financial aid, et cetera. So I'm just saying, I don't like, if that were the case
00:26:47.920
that like native Americans had no cache in progressive circles, there wouldn't be ballooning
00:26:54.220
Okay. Okay. Then I'll use another group that may make my argument more strong.
00:26:58.400
Which group is one of the smallest distinct cultural groups in the United States right now
00:27:05.140
that progressives increasingly care less and less about? It's Jews. Jews are a, if you're talking
00:27:12.480
minority, they are much more a minority than any of the groups we're talking about right now. They're,
00:27:18.680
they're an incredibly small percent of the population and they underwent a very recent
00:27:24.180
event, which shows that the, the world is, is incredibly.
00:27:29.020
From an intersectionality standpoint, they don't matter. Why? Because they historically have been
00:27:33.580
in positions of financial empowerment influence.
00:27:38.080
Yeah. But you know, I think as soon as you have some people in a position of power, in a position
00:27:44.560
of wealth, you lose your like victim status. It's considered as deserved. So because they have all
00:27:50.120
these like wealth coins, they're genocide coins, you know, and also.
00:27:55.040
Okay. Okay. So the, well, no, I, I actually think it's more than what you're saying. They, and I've,
00:28:00.580
and I've seen this within progressive circles. I've seen increasing Holocaust denial.
00:28:03.820
There is a belief that it is impossible for a group to boast, um, economically outcompete.
00:28:11.420
If it turns out that all of the differences between groups in the world. So if you believe
00:28:15.280
that everyone's actually exactly the same, if, if Jews and everyone else is exactly the same,
00:28:20.700
like there's no differences between groups, then any economic differences between groups
00:28:25.980
must be ill-earned. They must be earned through mischievous means.
00:28:31.740
And so when they see Jews as a cultural group out earning other cultural groups or out achieving,
00:28:39.340
you know, academic success when contrasted with other groups, it is proof to them that they are
00:28:45.520
not discriminated against because it is impossible in a world in which everyone is equal to outcompete
00:28:52.380
other groups. If you are discriminated against, if the primary differences between cultural groups
00:29:03.860
And that's one, that's one view. And, you know, I progressive culture is not a monolith as much
00:29:10.760
It is a monolith. I'm sorry. In what way is it not a monolith? Explain.
00:29:14.400
Well, because I do think that there are many people who identify as progressives who don't
00:29:18.020
agree with every element of it. I, you know, most people who identify as progressives are a lot more
00:29:22.440
reasonable and wouldn't say that, you know, you should be obligated to sleep with trans woman if
00:29:28.700
you're not like really turned on by that, you know, like I think most people are reasonable and many
00:29:34.560
I would argue that you're, you're being naive here. So just, you are telling the truth.
00:29:40.060
There are people who identify, so there's, there's people who, you know, identify with Mormonism,
00:29:45.680
right? Who will go out there and claim that Mormons don't believe that everyone eventually
00:29:51.080
inherits a planet, right? And takes over a planet and becomes a God themselves, right?
00:29:54.560
There's actual Mormon apologists who will say that right now. When Joseph Smith said this,
00:29:59.120
when Brigham Young said this, when the current prophets have said this. And so it's, well,
00:30:03.580
why are they saying this? It's in there? Well, I was never taught this in church, right? And it's,
00:30:08.860
yeah, but you're just on the outside. This is what your cultural group actually believes at the
00:30:14.780
highest levels. And this is what your cultural group will try to enforce on the surrounding
00:30:19.240
cultural groups, regardless of whether or not it's something that you personally identify with.
00:30:25.380
And I think that that's, that's really, this is like, you go to a Nazi and he's like, well,
00:30:28.920
I'm not anti-Semitic. It's like, yeah, but you, the, the, the, the camps, you personally not being
00:30:37.780
an anti-Semitic Nazi doesn't mean that supporting the Nazi movement doesn't lead to anti-Semitism
00:30:45.920
being advanced in the world. Yeah. And I do agree with you. There were, there were,
00:30:53.820
there were many Nazis that were not anti-Semitic. I will agree with that statement as well.
00:31:00.380
I don't think it means that Nazism broadly was, was not anti-Semitic.
00:31:09.680
I hear your point. Yeah. Yeah. This conversation has been pretty helpful to me in helping me
00:31:14.880
understand what diversity really means in progressive culture. And just to acknowledge
00:31:19.080
that progressive culture is a dominating culture, which is to say that it will not rest. It will not
00:31:24.840
be comfortable with the existence of groups that do not hold its doctrine. All, all apostates have
00:31:32.000
to be converted and no one can really rest until everyone has been saved. And that really like just
00:31:37.000
helps to explain the diversity problem. And also that diversity really is intersectionality,
00:31:43.520
which is just part of the status and virtue signaling and hierarchy of this particular culture.
00:31:48.940
So this has been actually, yeah, I was surprised. This has been pretty good.
00:31:53.820
Well, I just, you know, I, I, I've struggled with this a lot. So I wouldn't think that I
00:31:58.760
wouldn't have thought that we could get to the bottom of it, but I feel personally, at least
00:32:02.040
we, I have a, an imperfect, but still functional for me now model that works a lot better than
00:32:07.800
what I had before, which was, oh. Well, yeah. When I feel in the same way that, you know,
00:32:12.620
progressive, the way that conservatives frame progressives and the way progressives can frame
00:32:16.080
conservative can lead to some conservatives to not understanding what conservatism is actually
00:32:19.840
about, you know, so often I see, especially young conservatives think that conservatism is about
00:32:25.180
their cultural group dominating others. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You're just a progressive.
00:32:31.460
You just are in a cultural group. That's not winning right now. The real conservative movement
00:32:36.780
is in, and always has been, was in the U S about creating an environment that is stable for multiple
00:32:43.740
cultural groups, trying to exist intergenerationally with fidelity, not about erasing the people who
00:32:50.180
think differently than you, that the cultural genocide. And this is something that really,
00:32:56.420
you know, people are like, why are you so mean to progressives? And I hear this over and over again,
00:33:00.300
right? Like, why can't you just be nice? And it's like, you expect me to be okay with cultural genocide.
00:33:04.680
Like their actual goal is to erase everyone who doesn't think like them to take their kids,
00:33:11.560
to convince those kids that their parents are evil and bad people. And again, this is what
00:33:16.660
happened when it's a residential school program in Canada, like cultural genocide has happened many
00:33:20.360
times. And these genocide deniers, and that's what they are. They are genocide deniers when they're
00:33:26.420
like, Oh, my group isn't doing that. When you are a Nazi and you're like, I like Jews, Nazis definitely
00:33:32.500
aren't erasing the Jews from the world is yeah, but they fucking are. Okay. And the cultural group that
00:33:40.320
you are supporting fucking is its core goal is to take the children of the people who disagree with
00:33:48.600
it and ensure that they have the correct views on gender, sexuality, our relationship to the
00:33:53.700
environment, the future of the human species, what's moral and what's immoral. If that's not
00:33:58.300
cultural genocide, I literally don't know how you're defining the term. It is cultural genocide.
00:34:04.360
And, and, and, and just because you deny it does not mean you're not culpable for it happening in
00:34:09.440
the world. Cultural genocide is a necessary process of any dominating culture, essentially,
00:34:16.760
because everyone has to be converted to their ways. Yeah. Well, yes, necessary, but it's also evil
00:34:22.320
and it must be stopped. It's evil for our values. But if you literally believe that non-believers will go
00:34:28.720
to hell, it is your moral imperative. But progressive non-believers will go to hell. They're just doing
00:34:33.800
it for shits and giggles because they think that these other groups are intrinsically inferior to
00:34:39.320
them. No, they think that, they think that non-believers are both experiencing pain and causing pain and
00:34:45.000
that pain and suffering are terrible and bad things. Malcolm, you're not being fair. Well, no, okay,
00:34:50.780
okay, okay. So they literally shouldn't exist. I don't think you're being fair or you're not fully
00:34:56.580
comprehend. No, I think, I think it's very wrong. I think we're very against coercion, but you can't
00:35:01.480
just straw man your enemies. You know, I think you have to understand. No, no, no. I understand
00:35:06.180
why they're committing genocide. I understand why they're committing genocide, right? It's because
00:35:12.460
they think that they're removing pain from the people who are living under these cultural groups.
00:35:17.380
Yes. I think that through saying, well, this is why they're committing genocide, you to some extent are,
00:35:24.420
you know, you're like one of those people who were like, well, the Jews weren't perfect when you're
00:35:29.860
talking about why the Nazis did what they did. Right. You know, just give a reason why people do
00:35:36.120
they're very evil things for very stupid reasons. I'm not saying it's, it's not a stupid reason.
00:35:40.860
And I'm not saying that they're right to do it. I'm just saying that you can't just make up a,
00:35:45.000
if you make a dumb straw man reason for why people do it, you're not going to be able to fight them or
00:35:50.120
convert people to your views effectively because those people are going to be like, they're not
00:35:54.220
even trying. You just think that their reasons are more nuanced and justified than I have given
00:35:59.720
them credit for. I don't think that their reasons are justified. I think that their reasons are
00:36:06.220
in many ways, logically consistent, but easy to tear down when you, when you provide a little bit
00:36:13.280
more nuance and color to suffering and what actually causes suffering and that, that while
00:36:20.100
progressive causes and cultures are very against suffering, their interventions exacerbate it and
00:36:26.700
make it worse. So I think it's, it's possible to take the very progressive argument, to take the
00:36:33.120
deepest progressive values and, and use them like in Aikido against progressive culture itself.
00:36:39.400
But I don't think that an open ignorance toward progressive values, a refusal to engage with them
00:36:46.320
is going to enable you to use its energy against it. You're, you're right. And I, I, I think that's
00:36:52.140
a very good, what's the word here? Steel man. No, it's a good steel man. And I, and I, and I think
00:36:59.260
that, you know, I, I appreciate that. And I think any of the genocide deniers that watch our program
00:37:03.820
will appreciate your, sorry, that, that's, that's what I think of them as, you know, if you're okay
00:37:10.360
with a cultural group that's out there, that's using our school system to systematically erase
00:37:14.720
everyone who thinks differently than them. And, and, and, and if it was literally any group other
00:37:20.280
than yours doing that, you'd be like, oh, this is like the most evil thing anyone can do. I'd really,
00:37:31.740
But your arguments and your wording are not going to engage people. I'm sorry, but that's just like
00:37:37.360
Yeah. You can't tell somebody commit, you're saying I can't tell someone who's committing
00:37:42.240
Yes. Because Malcolm, the way that minds are changed is you develop a connection with someone,
00:37:46.180
you understand what their values and motivations are. You get them to trust you and you come to trust
00:37:50.380
them and care about them. And then you help them to find more nuance in their beliefs and help them to
00:37:55.160
really think about what you're saying. And what instead you do with your attacks of progressives
00:37:59.720
and with your attacks of people that you disagree with, which I think is very dangerous, is you
00:38:03.720
essentially immediately say, hey, I'm your enemy, stab, stab, stab. And they put up their walls and
00:38:08.500
they never listen to you again. Okay. That's not going to work. The way that you change minds
00:38:12.500
is very different. It's a Trojan horse approach.
00:38:16.880
I, I really appreciate your ability to stay calm in the face of such immeasurable,
00:38:24.940
evil to the extent where you can communicate with people who to me, I have trouble even
00:38:29.960
communicating with Malcolm, our culture holds that all humans are inherently wretched. I don't
00:38:34.160
know how obviously I hold that as well. And my ancestors who held that started the, you know,
00:38:39.680
the free state of Jones. So why are you so unwilling? Anyway, why am I so unwilling to morally
00:38:46.620
compromise? No, I'm not asking you to morally compromise. I'm asking you to be effective and
00:38:51.920
you're not even willing to try to be effective. You're just like, I'm going to straw man my enemies.
00:38:56.520
I'm just going to make them hate me. I'm not even going to try to engage with them. And I think that
00:39:00.560
that's very sad because we have a culture that believes in efficacy. We have a culture that
00:39:05.760
believes in engaging with offensive ideas and you're not willing to engage with them. You just
00:39:10.540
want to other them. You just want to make them enemies. And that's okay. Like othering is a part of
00:39:14.160
an effective cultural technology as well. But if you actually care about addressing issues that
00:39:20.000
we're really... I think that you suspect that they are a much larger cultural group than they
00:39:26.680
I think, yes. I think that they are a, they are a cultural group that everyone is afraid of
00:39:33.260
within elite circles. But I think if you asked the majority of Americans, if they're actually okay
00:39:38.940
with what's happening, I think 90% of them would say no.
00:39:42.100
Well, I mean, I think if, if you looked at Nazi Germany, if we're going to go back there,
00:39:46.320
then the majority of people would not be really cool with what's going on. And a lot of it comes
00:39:50.060
down to which minorities and power. How do you stop it? You don't say in a nice way,
00:39:56.580
Nazis are bad and here's our nuanced take. It's, do you not see the camps? Do you not see what is
00:40:03.640
happening? That is how, because the truth is, is that your average person living under a Nazi
00:40:09.480
government, 90% of them, your average person living in America right now, 90% of them,
00:40:14.900
they're not actually okay with what's happening. They just haven't had it told to them in a way
00:40:20.320
where they can understand and contextualize how evil it is. And that's what we're trying to do.
00:40:27.020
And so I think what you're wrong here is you think my goal is to convert the dyed in the wool
00:40:33.860
progressive. Whereas my goal is to convince your average American who knows what they're doing is
00:40:41.040
wrong, but doesn't actually have a word for it. It's a forgetting before remembering phenomenon
00:40:47.200
that you have in psychology. So forgetting before remembering in psychology is this phenomenon
00:40:52.520
where somebody will go, Oh, it turns out I had like erased this grape from my life, right? Like
00:40:58.440
I had been graped to the kid and people are like, no, you didn't forget it. You just used other words
00:41:04.120
to describe it. You were like, my uncle touched me in ways that were weird and that felt funny. And
00:41:10.720
I thought it was really silly and uncomfortable at the time. And then one day in like your fifties,
00:41:16.080
you're like, Oh, that was a grape. Oh my God. That's what happened. And I think that for a large
00:41:23.060
part of the American population right now, what we need to do is just wake them up and be like,
00:41:28.060
this is a genocide. That's what's happening right now. Do you think that's bad?
00:41:35.460
No, I'm not against galvanizing opponents against genuinely, you know, harmful things that are
00:41:41.460
happening. Oh, that's fine. And that's important, but I'm just saying it is also possible to,
00:41:46.840
to change people's minds and convert the died in the woods, extremist progressives.
00:41:56.200
Well, I know you have no crystal bullet on this one, but.
00:41:58.880
Confidence and I'm glad there's two of us. There's one of us that can be the nice one.
00:42:04.020
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You be bad cop. I be good cop. And I love you very much, Malcolm.