Based Camp - Disney Abandoned America for the 1%

00:00:00.000 Hello Malcolm! I'm so excited to be speaking with you today because you

00:00:04.080 wanted to explore how Disney has become a luxury good and at first it was like

00:00:08.240 I don't know. Not even a luxury good, a luxury brand.

00:00:12.480 Going through Disney these days it's like you go

00:00:15.360 and and and you pay for something you're like can I have

00:00:18.400 that like going to Disneyland or Disney bag or something.

00:00:24.160 We happy? Vincent?

00:00:29.360 We happy? Yeah we happy.

00:00:33.680 Look. But in reality if I were to go to Disneyland it would be more like this.

00:00:37.440 Open it up! Go ahead. Open it up. Do what he says. Hurry.

00:00:49.440 What is this? What is this? Where's all the money?

00:00:53.680 That's as good as money sir. Those are IOUs.

00:00:56.640 No like basically that's it and and honestly the more I dove into this issue to prepare for this

00:01:03.360 episode the more I realized this this is actually really deep and important issue to discuss. It

00:01:08.160 goes way beyond all the like butthurt videos that are out there which I love watching anyway. I watch

00:01:12.080 a ton of Disney reviews I I subscribe to channels that only review menus from premium Disney restaurants

00:01:17.920 like I I'm into this I love it but it's actually doing the research myself and doing this episode I

00:01:24.080 now have a completely different view and philosophy around purchasing any non commodified product or

00:01:31.520 service. Oh explain. My world view has changed so we're going to get into it through the lens

00:01:37.200 of Disney no longer being affordable and we really have to talk about it so I just want to for those

00:01:42.160 who are not familiar with the Disney brand and how much it has increased in cost Disney park entrance

00:01:46.000 fees now rise about twice as fast as the cost of an average American's basket of goods and services

00:01:52.080 and faster than major competitors ticket prices too so it's not just like you know everyone's getting

00:01:56.800 out of hand when it comes to theme parks. Disney's also charging customers for a myriad of add-ons that

00:02:01.680 is just completely insane and if you want to watch like because I love videos on these I really love

00:02:07.440 Jake of bright sun films check out his bright sun travel channel too he has one video where he just

00:02:14.240 goes with his girlfriend to Disneyland for one day and sort of just gives you a really good day in the

00:02:19.120 life of like how much you spend being a totally non-vip reasonable budget conscious Disney attendee

00:02:26.640 at one point though he wants to go on a new ride there the new Tron ride he pays just $42 for

00:02:33.360 himself and his girlfriend to be able to get on the ride because there was no in the park he's already

00:02:38.880 in the park but just to just to get on that one ride because otherwise they never would have gotten

00:02:43.200 to go on it that day because you have to like it's a whole thing in that one day he dropped

00:02:49.040 $886 oh my god for not not doing anything particularly no he didn't buy any snacks he

00:02:54.320 didn't do anything special he didn't get add-ons aside from that one desperate attempt to get on

00:02:58.560 a ride and it's it's insane it's also I should I should say like it is insane to the point where

00:03:04.560 people are actively damaging themselves to participate in Disney experiences surveys in 2024 to 2025 so like

00:03:12.160 now show that around 24 percent of all U.S. Disney park visitors have gone into debt to pay for their

00:03:18.960 Disney trip with the rate soaring to 45 percent among parent with parents of children under 18

00:03:24.320 who are the least you know they shouldn't be getting to debt rather than like saving for college or

00:03:29.920 something not not that college makes sense these days exactly but saving to set their kids up they're

00:03:34.000 like yeah let's go into debt for Disney for Disney the and it's not a little bit the average debt for these

00:03:39.760 trips is around two thousand dollars per family and most indebted guests took their Disney debt on

00:03:46.400 within the past five years it's it is I just I can't believe it it's not that good we went to

00:03:52.560 Disney not that long ago compared to like when I was a kid and I remember just being like this is not

00:03:57.680 it doesn't have that much magic anymore yeah especially if you contrast it with other parts

00:04:02.240 like Universal Studios yeah which are like freaking amazing yeah just like technology how good

00:04:07.600 Universal Studios was in comparison to Disney Disney felt like a discount attraction it really

00:04:12.880 reminds me of like Costco's versus BJ's like everybody thinks of Costco is like the higher-end brand

00:04:17.440 but if you've ever been in a Costco's and a BJ's Costco's feels very like I and I do not mean to say

00:04:24.640 this in like a negative way but growing up in Texas you could go to various grocery stores

00:04:31.840 and you could tell if the primary users of the grocery store were Latin American immigrants or

00:04:37.600 they were supposed to be Texas born individuals and Costco feels like a store that is set up

00:04:42.640 for Latin American immigrants typically like it's it's it's you know with BJ's like it's everything's like 0.97

00:04:48.000 very actually anyone who knows if you're a Latin American and you've gone to a Latin American grocery

00:04:52.560 store you know exactly what I'm talking about they feel they have a very different structure in

00:04:56.720 terms of the layout and in terms of the way they display products but anyway interesting BJ's does

00:05:02.960 feel very white I'll say that but but here is why this really actually matters beyond just

00:05:10.880 Disney is not actually unique it's it is it is we'll say like a sort of hyperbolic example but it's

00:05:16.880 representative of any non-commoditized product in a market and discourse around Disney's

00:05:22.400 unaffordability yields a key insight because non-commodity products are basically in this

00:05:28.320 modern age endlessly exploitative there is no way that they're going to be affordable or sustainable

00:05:34.880 in other words you're either going to get a crappy experience like we did at Disney or you're going to

00:05:39.760 spend so much money that like you're in debt or or all your money spent on it and you're still not

00:05:45.360 going to be satiated and explain what you mean by a non-commodity experience so I'm referring to

00:05:51.440 and so there there are sort of two broad different types of business models there there are commodities

00:05:56.320 like groceries like gasoline where businesses are making money by being more efficient and trying to get

00:06:03.840 as much market share as possible and then there are products that are more like luxuries or or

00:06:10.720 discretionary purchases where really as a business you are making money by differentiating yourself and

00:06:17.840 building brand loyalty and the only way that you're really going to make money is by getting

00:06:23.920 focusing it doubling down on your top typically there's just the parade of principle at play your

00:06:30.480 top 20 percent of customers are going to make up the majority of your earnings and because of that

00:06:35.920 principle basically and businesses I think in the past even in our childhoods and you can see this

00:06:41.200 with Disney they didn't I guess want to admit this they were like oh we welcome all we want to get all

00:06:46.080 the customers let's give everyone a great experience and now businesses are getting a lot more ruthless

00:06:51.840 about like no we're gonna fire we're gonna fire these customers either by like literally excluding

00:06:57.120 them or by just giving them a really shoddy experience and we are going to completely focus

00:07:03.200 in well okay so consider Disney and why they would do this if people are confused by this if you go to

00:07:08.320 Disney and I've been on like non big days you are in giant lines like let's say like two hour lines for

00:07:15.680 like every ride right from a Disney perspective that means you if you're not one of the highest paying

00:07:21.440 customers are just making the highest paying customers wait longer for a ride right like

00:07:26.640 yeah you're in their way you're crowding the park you're frugal they don't want you there

00:07:30.480 yeah if you're showing up with bottled water and with snacks packed and you're not paying for any extras

00:07:36.960 and and then on the other hand there's this family that buys the merch goes to the premium restaurants

00:07:42.320 goes to a dessert party gets the the genie passes stays at the most expensive branded hotel on a suite

00:07:49.040 does a six-day package is a Disney vacation package timeshare member like all these things like

00:07:55.120 obviously they want that that other family to get everything you know they're gonna get all the

00:07:59.760 attention but this is this is a general market principle now that has been widely adopted at and

00:08:04.560 accepted and what this means functionally whether you have kids or not is that if you try to get your

00:08:11.120 your luxury that is to say like your hedonic pleasure any non-commoditized products so like not

00:08:16.160 groceries maybe not well premium groceries are different we have everyone and everything but

00:08:20.640 like if you're getting normal stuff that's fine but anything beyond that at this point you really

00:08:26.000 shouldn't turn to products or services that you buy outside your community or household for your

00:08:32.000 happiness because you cannot get it there again it will either cost it will cost everything or it will

00:08:38.400 be the belief that you're happy that is what Disney fundamentally sells people these days yeah but

00:08:43.840 they're not you're not getting happy you go there and you're like well great now i'm in debt it wasn't

00:08:47.840 that good of a day i couldn't even get into anything because the lines were too long and i'm stressed by

00:08:52.480 the money i did spend well i mean people allow themselves to be sort of brainwashed by it and into

00:08:57.840 believing that they're doing something good and that they are happy because otherwise they need to deal

00:09:02.080 with the cognitive dissonance of all the money that they wasted yeah i think you know the other dynamic

00:09:05.920 too is that this is i think and i'll show you in the numbers this is a relatively new thing that is

00:09:12.960 happening with discretionary goods with non-commoditized goods so we i think a lot of us

00:09:19.600 having most of most of the people watching this are like older teens or adults had some experience

00:09:25.440 with more sustainably priced discretionary goods and kind of could for a while get by with getting

00:09:32.960 luxuries and being satisfied from them and getting a premium experience in a slightly more affordable

00:09:38.560 format this was also cheesed by that experience of like the post dot com debt or sorry tech boom

00:09:46.000 where like vcs were just pumping money into startups that sold luxuries which in turn were only trying

00:09:52.240 to get market share by making their their products and services super underpriced so this was back when

00:09:57.280 you could get like an uber and an uber meant like a luxury black car and it was actually affordable you

00:10:02.080 know but like that was just because of a venture capitalist was subsidizing it no one could afford that

00:10:07.200 so i think a lot of us have grown up thinking that we could do this and now they're still doing it

00:10:11.200 like they're putting money into the machine and nothing's coming out and they're not realizing this

00:10:15.840 but this this is your wake-up call so first let's just talk about how like out of control things have

00:10:20.640 gotten and how quickly and we're going to look at the price hikes okay let's look at the price hikes

00:10:26.000 so park entrance in disneyland 1955 do you want to do you want to guess what it was

00:10:30.800 i'm gonna guess 50 bucks cost adjusted oh who's 11 to 24 dollars 24 dollars that's that's cost

00:10:37.840 adjusted to modern to 2024 although i so before before 1981 in disney parks you had to make such

00:10:47.280 separate purchases for rides and then the all-inclusive ticket model began in 1981 so if we

00:10:54.400 just look at then 1981 still it was 31 dollars all-inclusive to get in the park then in 1990

00:11:02.240 it was 72 dollars like around 72 dollars in 2084 into 2010 107 hmm in 2015 131 in 2024 104 to 206

00:11:16.480 and keep in mind when you're when you're when you're looking at these earlier dates and you're like but

00:11:22.800 my parents could afford to go to disney with me when i was a kid so i want to do that for my kids

00:11:26.240 because they could because they could they literally could it was a different experience

00:11:30.800 back then yeah and frankly i think it was a better experience rise wide and i loved it yeah it was

00:11:35.840 fantastic oh you know for the same cause i mean i'm sure we could just go to hershey park or something

00:11:40.480 so i will point out actually other usa parks when adjusted for inflation the entrance fee increases in

00:11:46.400 us-based disney parks have significantly outpaced both the national inflation rate and the price

00:11:50.960 hikes at rival parks such as like universal studios and six flags but all major parks have seen double

00:11:57.440 digit increases in the past decade they are outpacing inflation and and and i can i can send you a

00:12:03.840 series of tables i want to talk about disney like branded goods as well oh we're gonna get to that

00:12:09.040 we're gonna get to that but i also first want to point out just how out of whack things are um because

00:12:13.760 this is actually a it's clearly a disney strategy and in some other countries i think this pareto

00:12:20.720 principle high roller exploitation strategy hasn't necessarily rolled out because there's this very

00:12:26.400 interesting case study of tokyo disney which is not owned by disney it was it's like licensed so while in

00:12:34.320 2025 the adjusted inflation adjusted price of well we don't have to inflation adjust for this of disney

00:12:42.480 in the usa 189 around to get into like a disney park tokyo disneyland you want to guess tokyo

00:12:49.120 disneyland i don't know what it's it's it's it's 75 to get really that was that was the price to get in

00:12:56.960 in approximately 1990 so in 1990 the inflation adjusted dollar price to get into a park was 72

00:13:03.440 in the united states so basically if you want the 90s park experience still you can literally

00:13:09.680 get it at tokyo disney same goes for the food and again because i'm obsessively i love watching

00:13:15.200 park reviews i've seen so many influencers like literally do all the numbers fly out to tokyo and

00:13:21.760 they're like literally flying to tokyo and going to tokyo disney costs me less than going to disneyland

00:13:28.560 yeah which honestly like i so want to do that's only come on let's get some kind of pro natalist

00:13:34.960 event in japan before they go tokyo disney i know but like and also like or tokyo disney shuts down

00:13:42.000 because they're just like well there's no kids in japan yeah i know i mean kids don't go to disney

00:13:46.160 anymore right you know well i mean yeah but at least hopefully the disney adults prop it up right

00:13:50.560 but but it is really actually the hotels and everything they're gorgeous it's super kid

00:13:54.560 friendly again the food is important and we're going to be talking about disney adults in this

00:13:58.240 episode we're going to get to that i mean sort of yeah i mean they're they're part of this because

00:14:03.040 they're the they're the high rollers and that's why we're you know i mean i find disney adults

00:14:07.920 fascinating because they actively brand and i think it's why disney has moved in this direction

00:14:12.960 as a luxury brand they wear their disney outfits and and branding so that you know how

00:14:20.320 much money they spent that is part of the point of it like wearing a prada bag or something like

00:14:25.840 that oh yeah um but they're spending it to enforce a perception of them as infantilized this is a brand

00:14:35.280 they want other people to see and think about them as infantilized individuals connected to

00:14:42.720 some earlier idea of what a good childhood was that they don't want to have left and i think that

00:14:51.040 that's what the brand fundamentally represents for the groups that engage with it and well yeah i mean

00:14:56.320 i also see sort of disney adulting is it's it's very dank it's it's very refusing to grow up and

00:15:02.880 just choosing to be a kid forever instead of taking responsibility and you know maybe i don't know about

00:15:09.600 that exactly when i imagine my classic disney brand person i mean there's sort of two categories of

00:15:15.440 them there's the borderline personality kind of obese woman who's just obsessed with disney which is one 1.00

00:15:24.240 category you know and then the other category is the beleaguered mormon mom who used to wear like 1.00

00:15:31.680 minion shirts or something yeah and i don't think that that second category is exactly dink like they're more

00:15:38.640 just never really wanted to identify as an adult yeah no i can see that yeah but i i also i just

00:15:48.320 because this is so fun i want to highlight park out-ons because this is this is what caused for

00:15:54.240 example jake of bright sun travels bright sun films to pay 42 dollars just to get on a freaking ride so

00:16:02.240 i don't know if you've been to a disney park when they introduced fast passes this was like between

00:16:06.560 1999 and 2020 do you remember these the fast passes yeah so fast pass was this like it was i think it

00:16:14.320 was integrated with your park entrance card or something that allowed you to basically like sign

00:16:18.480 up for time slots at a ride no i remember i remember because of cartman's thing where he's like

00:16:24.400 now you have to stand in lines to stand in lines the lines everywhere the lines the lines the lines

00:16:30.240 the lines the lines so then there's lines for fast pass you stand in line to get a ticket to stand in

00:16:35.600 line later then there's lines for the bathrooms lines for the drinks lines for cantagoras and rare

00:16:43.360 i mean that's what it that's what it eventually became but the original concept of the fast pass was

00:16:47.280 actually really awesome because it was designed from from the the standpoint of how can we get people

00:16:53.040 to not stand in lines like if they make an appointment they drop that because they realized

00:16:58.160 they can make money off of that so the the first thing was just like basically you sign up for a

00:17:04.400 time slot you know how like when you you're on hold with a support and they're like do you want to hold

00:17:09.040 or do you want us to call you back and that is exactly what fast passes were and it just made

00:17:13.200 things work more efficiently it made it look less crowded it was great and they were like wait why

00:17:17.760 aren't we charging people for this and so in in 2017 they introduced the max pass dl which in 2025 was

00:17:27.280 basically 13 so like not too bad then it went up to 18 and then they they introduced the genie system

00:17:34.720 or genie plus system which then started around 18 and then in 2022 it was it was 24 and then in 2023

00:17:43.280 it was 30 and then in 2024 it was 32 and then it went in 2025 it was it was 35 and i mean it makes

00:17:50.560 sense to buy one of these per person but it's also just like so insulting if you're coming with a family

00:17:56.640 and you have all these kids and you're paying 35 and i think there's dynamic pricing too so if the park's

00:18:01.760 extra crowded you're paying more per person that really adds up because this doesn't include the food

00:18:07.920 and the hotel and the transportation it's just another insult to injury and then it's it's also

00:18:13.680 not just to your point disney park stuff oh oh though i did send you disney food prices just so you

00:18:21.200 could see because the park meals are insane so in 2014 i'm just going to give you some like very classic

00:18:27.760 disney food comparisons okay but you can also look at the food menus that i sent to you just to see

00:18:32.400 like what they are now oh my god sorry i'm looking at one of these it is literally a frozen oh okay

00:18:39.680 yeah so back i guess this is an older one a frozen banana is 625 oh my god popcorn is 13 dollars yeah

00:18:47.680 i mean in a commemorative plastic bucket though so i mean this is why this is literally why we bought

00:18:55.040 a cotton candy machine because we cannot bear to buy candy at venues like lager is ten dollars

00:19:04.720 i mean you need to be sloshed to deal with that kind of stress though so in 2014 there's a there's

00:19:10.800 there's this place called santa bread service that their inflation adjusted 2025 price was was

00:19:15.600 about 13 now or as of 2024 it's 22 how about corn dog nuggets they were 6.68 in 2014 um now they're 11

00:19:30.160 dollars almost twice as much dole whip classic disney treat yeah uh in 2014 five dollars and 36 now it's

00:19:38.080 six dollars and 43 a mickey pretzel used to be in 2024 six dollars and 15 cents i mean it's still insane

00:19:46.080 to pay six dollars and 15 cents for a freaking soft pretzel now it's eight dollars and 68 cents 2019

00:19:52.560 an adult table dinner at be our guest was 68 20 now it is 72 dollars and i mean people are going with

00:20:00.480 their kids you know their kids are like not eating any they're asking for like chicken nuggets they're

00:20:05.520 eating two of them they're not and that's the thing you're not even eating them yeah yeah but you

00:20:11.920 i mean to get the table you have to pay for everyone you can't just be like our kids aren't eating

00:20:15.840 which is what we always do when i do restaurants i'm yeah you don't like eating at restaurants i'm

00:20:20.400 like i'll have the soup and they're like what do you mean you'll have the soup and i'm like oh my god

00:20:25.600 yeah no even when you and i just go to restaurants like i won't eat and you'll order like an appetizer

00:20:30.960 and they get so mad and then when we go with our kids maybe both you and i will have an appetizer

00:20:36.800 and their kids will pick off of our plates and they're like but what about the children and we're

00:20:40.800 like ah like they don't eat this anyway i'm not i'm not doing this but yeah the price increases have

00:20:46.800 been insane it's it's been really hard for people to go in and like the problem is even if you're

00:20:52.480 responsible even if you bring snacks your kids like they want the freaking mickey waffle they want the

00:20:57.680 mickey pretzel they want the mickey ice cream like they are going to be so mad at you i mean like we

00:21:03.040 struggle to take our kids to grocery stores because as much as we're like no only for special occasions

00:21:09.040 well they always want a toy the whole thing just looks like such a chore so it's so stressful

00:21:15.120 so then they have the fast pass disney plus though so like we're just talking like

00:21:19.520 what if you just want to be a disney fan from afar right you're like okay i'm gonna go

00:21:23.280 like we're not gonna leave our house i i love disney as a kid so let's just get disney plus

00:21:28.880 but it's gone up from 2019 it was 8 67 inflation adjusted now it's 18.99 what per month yeah that's

00:21:39.280 why we don't get disney plus anymore yeah dude and just to go more into the disney debt that people go

00:21:45.280 into for disney vacations because this is just so sobering to me and this is again this is why like

00:21:50.480 even if you're like okay well this is my my one thing this is where i'm going to get all of my

00:21:54.480 hedonic pleasure no it's you're only going to end up hurting yourself 24 of disney park attendees

00:22:00.800 have taken on debt for their trip that's up from 18 in 2022 wow so that i think that really goes to

00:22:06.480 show that even in just three years it's become so financially unsustainable that that many more

00:22:12.000 people are like well i guess like credit card debt 45 of parents of children under 18 have gone

00:22:16.960 into debt for a disney trip that's up from 30 in 2022 the average disney related debt for parents

00:22:22.640 of young children is nine one thousand nine hundred nine hundred and eighty three per trip and debt

00:22:28.720 most commonly covers concessions and and transportation and accommodations so they're just they're going

00:22:36.880 into debt to buy pretzels to buy an overpriced pretzel an eight dollar pretzel 83 of indebted parents

00:22:45.440 incurred their disney debt within the past five years gen z that's like 39 and millennials 36

00:22:51.600 are likeliest to take on disney debt while only 70 or sorry while only seven percent of boomers do

00:22:57.120 so basically almost like getting getting close to what well over a third of gen z and millennials can't

00:23:03.600 do disney without getting into debt so if you see a young person at disney

00:23:08.160 one out of three of them is going into debt to be there like just look to your left look to your

00:23:15.360 right one of the three of you is still in debt or more debt and while most families can pay off

00:23:22.240 their disney related debt within six months nearly sixty percent report sixty percent don't pay it off

00:23:28.160 sorry nearly sixty percent report no regrets and that's where we get to the disney delusion and this is

00:23:34.400 this is where we get to this this this this delusion that i want this episode to be a wake-up call

00:23:39.360 and this whole thing has been a wake-up call for me to dispel because people are so brainwashed into

00:23:44.560 disney fandom which we would argue is analogous to any facet of modern mainstream culture that disney

00:23:50.320 is able to exploit them in a myriad of ways and it will never be enough like these people are going

00:23:55.840 into debt to buy a freaking pretzel and they're happy about it they have no regrets they're like yolo disney

00:24:02.640 this is you know we've been doing some videos about like the nihilism of like shooters and stuff 0.85

00:24:07.600 like that and i'm like this is somehow more nihilistic than the nihilism i see in like satanic

00:24:13.520 shooters and stuff like that like this was a good use of my time and money especially when you consider

00:24:19.280 all the suffering and pain that's going on in the world that they could be working towards or any

00:24:23.120 scientific progress they could be pushing forwards yeah they're like it's almost as bad as the

00:24:27.920 everest cleaners see our everest episode or we're just like you have to be like a psychopath and when

00:24:32.400 you walk around disney parks you're not people aren't looking thrilled and i watch a lot of disney

00:24:38.800 footage yeah you don't see a lot of happy people at disney i'm gonna be you don't you don't see a lot

00:24:44.080 of happy people i saw the happiest place on earth i saw honestly harry potter world way more happy oh my

00:24:50.320 god yes because people are just so freaking impressed by everything it's yeah you're like oh this is done

00:24:55.120 quite well you just watch it and you're like this was worth the money like do you walk around harry

00:24:59.280 potter we were legit impressed yeah yeah and you're like oh my god like this is pretty and i think you

00:25:05.920 see harry potter world for me represents the failure of disney in many ways because they had the contract

00:25:11.520 to do that and jk rowling uh over their plans and she goes this is just a few themed rides this is not

00:25:19.440 what people want yeah they want an immersive world yeah disney was like nobody does that jk rowling

00:25:26.400 that's crazy don't forget disney tried actually succeeded in creating an immersive world or like

00:25:32.400 remember the star wars hotel they created but it sucked they made it this like you're locked into

00:25:37.360 these windowless tiny rooms and and then forced to go into these like it was just terrible and then it

00:25:42.320 shut down because it was that bad so yeah it's like it showed also like an out of touchness with

00:25:49.440 what parts of their brands work with people what parts of their brands don't work with people i mean

00:25:55.200 i've watched a lot of these star wars hotel walkthroughs or like people who did the whole thing yeah

00:26:00.640 they're fun they're like you know you you watch it and i'm just glad that i'm not running around

00:26:05.360 trying to do these stupid unfinished games that somebody desperately programmed yeah it seems like homework i 0.62

00:26:11.520 don't yeah or like talk again we've talked about this in other actors like character lunches or 0.97

00:26:16.880 character interactions in general make me so the thing is is you can just go if you want that form

00:26:22.000 of immersiveness yeah to like your local medieval fair or like fantasy oh my god yeah go to your rent

00:26:27.840 fair and rent fairs are so much more so there's like this cool thing that they do now where people

00:26:33.360 like rent out castles and like everybody goes in like period attire and like you're supposed to like

00:26:39.360 larp the whole time but you could do this if you live in the uk and the us still have like castle

00:26:43.280 like i'm like what castle are you talking about there's castle like things throughout the us that

00:26:47.040 people will use to do this and it's like a whole thing that sounds fun i still don't want to

00:26:53.360 interact with people but i mean in theory it sounds fun but yeah so you you you had mentioned disney

00:26:59.200 merchandise and people walking here are these people coming today to work with him no okay good

00:27:05.280 okay sorry our kids are sick no yeah we're good i i got all that i i get the admin i can definitely

00:27:12.240 do the admin if you do the if you're on the if you're in the splash zone i'm like behind in like

00:27:17.440 the tech booth okay shamu's getting all over you though so i just sent you a link and a screenshot from

00:27:26.240 the disney official disney merchandise store just to show you how like you know into the delusion you

00:27:31.440 know people want to go i think the classic thing that people feel really fine so simple headbands

00:27:38.960 dizzy button doonie and burka ear headband is 198 doonie and burka make this a thing yeah no but like

00:27:47.600 seriously there there are some mickey mouse ears because when you walk through the park you want to get

00:27:52.240 mickey mouse ears because everyone has them and you're like i i want to be in the spirit so people

00:27:56.960 buy these the average like a typical price for mouse ears that aren't like discounted and pathetic which

00:28:02.320 are more around like 25 a typical price is 44 but yeah the you can spend 200 way more there there are

00:28:09.920 many other ways though that disney will find ways to extract money from from people i've watched really

00:28:15.520 in-depth videos for example on the disney vacation club because i don't know if you knew but disney has a

00:28:21.520 robust timeshare model they have expanded resorts and enhanced member exclusive experiences like

00:28:27.120 these are people who like literally like it is a disney lifestyle they they own part of the disney

00:28:33.040 property and now if you've bought into the disney vacation club oh it's not like you already spent i

00:28:38.960 don't know what 200 000 some crazy amount right for your timeshare which you still have to pay probably

00:28:44.400 fees to maintain but now they're extracting additional money out of you with with dvc resale and with rentals

00:28:51.360 and with points based enhancement enhancement so like it's never enough then also in parks they're

00:28:57.200 what they call like and literally that this is a product class called enchanting extras and this

00:29:02.800 includes exclusive fireworks views and private tours and premium lounges and animal encounters and

00:29:09.120 adventure activities that require advanced reservations and in-person fees and dessert events and then

00:29:15.440 they're also the very special dining events exclusive restaurants the club lounges like there's the pirates

00:29:21.040 the caribbean tavern spaceship earth earth lounge their after hours parties there are all these things

00:29:27.440 that like if you really want the good experience if you want to feel like you're having the disney magic

00:29:33.520 it's there but only if you spend insane amounts of money and this is this is why this exploitative

00:29:40.880 behavior is both logical and also kind of inevitable in if we're talking about efficient markets like i don't

00:29:48.560 blame disney for doing this and disney's actually really transparent about their approach so basically

00:29:55.680 they they're very open about their focus on going for fewer wealthier guests disney's data shows that

00:30:02.720 the top 10 percent of us earners now account for half of all customer spending so parks focus on affluent

00:30:09.280 demographics who can pay for new premium experiences suites and costly add-ons just 10 percent of

00:30:16.960 u.s earners half of us earners half of consumer spending wow and so and this is for for everyone

00:30:23.280 right so they know this they see this as a truism as a market dynamic and they're like well i'm going

00:30:27.920 to be dumb like i'm i am failing my fiduciary responsibility if i don't cater to them if i don't

00:30:35.600 kick out the pores yeah and also i think this is really going to hurt them and i'll explain why um 0.95

00:30:41.200 okay what disney does not understand is when disney converts a a a disney person into the disney brand

00:30:49.760 and lifestyle okay uh that really has to be done before the age of i'd say 15 yeah disney does not

00:30:56.400 make disney adults disney makes disney children who become taken by their parents as young kids who

00:31:04.720 watch disney movies and stuff like that as young kids but now that they are gaining a huge chunk of the

00:31:10.160 population especially the population with lots of kids even by making disney plus so expensive too

00:31:16.480 yes like i can think that at least there's that pipeline like at least you can have like your

00:31:19.840 remote propaganda pipeline so they're making themselves irrelevant in the long term because

00:31:25.440 their portion of the population that has fond memories of disney what disney is selling you when

00:31:31.840 they sell you the disney quote-unquote magic is the magic of childhood it is trying to bring you back

00:31:37.200 to your childhood yeah and and into experiences that you thought were special during your childhood

00:31:43.520 if you don't have the disney evoked set from childhood they can't do that i don't know because

00:31:50.320 even children are pretty sensitive to the concept of luxury items and now that disney is a luxury item

00:31:57.760 i think that it will get into their mind share that way but but let me let me also just i know like

00:32:02.880 disney again also companies are not ceos right their incentive packages are not incentivized for

00:32:09.920 what happens 20 years from now and you know this you know it their incentive packages have to do with

00:32:15.360 this year so they're not going to be i mean that may be true they may be fully acknowledging that

00:32:20.720 but the company can is incapable based on the way that incentive packages are set up based on the way that

00:32:26.400 shareholders behave of of making that proactive plan and recent quarterly annual reports show that disney

00:32:34.000 parks are earning record profits with attendance still below pre-pandemic levels so they've never

00:32:39.680 recovered for the pandemic but they have record profits yes because they're squeezing so much out

00:32:45.280 of people because of their massive increases in per capita guest spending on upcharges and hotels and

00:32:49.760 foods and special services and that results means that you're just getting more from fewer you have to do less work

00:32:56.640 to take care of these people and they're also engaging in active price optimization there's

00:33:00.640 a lot of discussing a discussion online now about dynamic pricing disney's doing it too they have

00:33:05.840 dynamic date based pricing their high price increases first get the line add-ons and they have a stream of

00:33:12.400 upcharges and revenue repeatedly rises even when traffic is flat or falls and their executives are explicitly

00:33:20.880 acknowledging this strategy of maximizing revenue disney's parks are like their big cash cow yeah

00:33:27.360 when contrasted with their their television brand and everything like that disney tv there's been some

00:33:32.400 talk recently even that they've shut down basically their animation division so they're not doing

00:33:36.960 animated television stuff anymore or like disney disney tv stuff in a classical sense anymore and this this

00:33:43.680 is not great right for for disney going forward it's like they have a few active shows but i i can't

00:33:48.400 remember the context but it was basically like there isn't really a future for them given the way that

00:33:51.840 they've structured the team at this point and their shows just keep bombing over and over and over again

00:33:57.120 you know whether they're pixar disney or anything like that we've seen well this is despite the fact

00:34:00.880 that actually i i saw some graphs i didn't i didn't grab them for this interview but spending on

00:34:06.080 production through disney plus and their other like media stuff has actually gone up over time yeah

00:34:12.160 one of the reasons why we're seeing disney plus height price hikes i think it's actually less about

00:34:16.080 extracting extra money from the customer and more about the fact that they're paying more for original

00:34:19.920 new content so i i think that they are aware of the fact that good media properties are crucial

00:34:26.560 if they want to maintain you know some kind of base and not lose the middle class

00:34:32.400 because they just made like they've clearly taken a quote-unquote side in the culture wars like we

00:34:38.160 talk about the rehiring of jimmy kimmel right yeah yeah lied on air it wasn't there was a

00:34:44.800 in response to jimmy kimmel's firing yeah um which we've pointed out in the episode he had lower

00:34:50.400 ratings than most talk shows had when they were canceled he himself said he expected to not have his

00:34:55.440 contract renewed and it wasn't that he attacked trump or charlie kirk he just lied about

00:35:02.320 about an assassination attempt and then refused to apologize and they still take him back which

00:35:07.280 i think disney getting involved with the culture was a huge unforced error on their part they got

00:35:12.320 involved with the court culture wars way before that though i mean the whole all the star wars

00:35:17.520 stuff that happened well no of course but the problem is is they got involved with the side

00:35:22.000 that had a lot of disney adults and very few people who have kids and that made sense from a

00:35:28.960 selling more to this luxury brand audience but it makes the brand long-term irrelevant i do not

00:35:35.040 think that disney is going to be a particularly relevant like it may still own a lot of stuff but

00:35:40.720 particularly relative relevant from a brand perspective within our children's generation

00:35:45.920 i do i do think that they should be doing a lot more to be accessible to children because even now

00:35:53.760 actually when we see like disney licensed products like we were just in bj's the other day getting

00:35:59.600 our normal groceries or seven gallons of milk for a couple of days and we we saw these these rubber

00:36:05.440 ducks which our kids love and i was like oh my god why are these so expensive because it was a really

00:36:09.600 expensive pack and then we realized it was crazy expensive because it was like elsa duck and it looked

00:36:15.200 really poor quality too well they looked really crappy but also like if we can't like our kids actually are

00:36:20.960 not into any disney properties and it's not that we're like trying to shield them i mean ghibli is

00:36:26.400 way better obviously and other stuff but like we just we can't afford it we're not we're not going to

00:36:31.680 spend that much more for for ducks that have disney theming so our kids don't know disney characters

00:36:39.280 i mean for this one period one of our kids octavian really loved watching a little mermaid but he kept

00:36:45.040 calling her worm the worm the worm movie but the problem is is it kids today just seem to react so

00:36:50.720 much better to hideo kojima or not hideo kojima what's the one i'm thinking of studio ghibli studio

00:36:56.000 ghibli stuff then no they always have they always have it's just it's just it's just superior i don't

00:37:02.160 know what to say and that's again we need to have a japanese protein list like family trip or like

00:37:09.520 conference because then there's the ghibli park there's so many amazing resorts for kids in japan and

00:37:14.480 they're affordable but they're amazing oh anyway it drives me nuts but okay so while i agree with you

00:37:23.440 that disney is shooting itself in the foot probably because it it the way that it works is it has this

00:37:28.480 like child to adult pipeline most discretionary goods totally work like this and are going to

00:37:35.680 continue work like this and it is a sustainable model for them not for us as consumers for them

00:37:41.040 basically if you're not selling a commodity it's more logical to charge more and double down on high

00:37:45.600 rollers that are honestly spending themselves into holes and then budget conscious spenders and a

00:37:51.680 large majority of businesses especially very specifically not not people selling commoditized

00:37:56.960 products so like just like normal low priced milk like walmart gas stations electricity like that's

00:38:02.400 you know that's fine they generate most of their income from a minority of clients so if we look at like

00:38:07.920 okay gucci luxury product most of its sales come from its top 20 of customers luxury industry analysts

00:38:17.200 frequently estimate that the top 20 of customers can account to 70 to 80 of revenues and profits on

00:38:24.480 ultra high-end segments casinos classic example overwhelmingly depend on their top 20 of customers for

00:38:30.880 their profits with recent studies showing that this segment is responsible for around 90 or more

00:38:35.920 of total operator revenue especially in online casino settings the top 20 of let's just take

00:38:42.080 something you know nerdy more homegrown like magic the gathering right yeah that they're like 20 top 20

00:38:48.720 percent of magic buyers termed whales are estimated to generate 70 to 80 so this is gucci levels

00:38:55.600 of their total that is fascinating supporting this discussions among magic analysts and financial

00:39:00.240 communities indicate that brand that relies heavily on the core of highly engaged high spending

00:39:04.800 customers who purchase large quantities of cards and premium sets and exclusive product offerings like

00:39:10.720 secret layer drops and well so magic is owned by hasbro they don't you know exactly give very detailed reports

00:39:18.880 but they definitely provide evidence of rising average transaction values that have outsized revenue growth from

00:39:25.360 basically premium sets and products that are only being bought by like this super fan and this even applies

00:39:30.000 to like literally stuff that i would guess or assume to be more commoditized but they're still discretionary goods

00:39:36.800 like phone apps like just freaking mobile games analysts have found that there's like a 25 to 65 rule

00:39:44.480 in the apple app store with 25 of customers responsible for 65 of spending which is for apps

00:39:53.280 which which is is crazy and the key balance for these businesses is to reduce the risk of losing

00:39:58.880 those you know i mean like obviously when you have a more concentrated customer base of just like a few high

00:40:03.040 rollers the risk is if you lose enough of them alienate enough of them you're really really screwed you

00:40:08.400 know you don't have this diversified portfolio but as long as you're like pretty careful

00:40:12.000 you're okay and then basically this this incentivizes companies to just give a crappy

00:40:20.960 experience to budget customers because if anything they're a burden they're crowding things up they're

00:40:26.000 wasting your time when you could be spending your time better targeting and better serving the ones who

00:40:33.200 have the money and can spend the money so if you're buying non-essentials and you're not a high

00:40:37.920 roller you're just going to get an intrinsically crummy experience and this matters because

00:40:45.040 basically if you try to buy your happiness through products or services outside your community outside

00:40:51.120 your family you're just not gonna either you're gonna like blow all your money and still not be happy

00:40:58.880 or you're gonna blow your money and get a crappy experience and and this is it makes me so much happier

00:41:06.880 that we have like made kind of a financial decision to kind of stop traveling stop going on trips and

00:41:14.080 stop like we used to take our kids to like trampoline parks and museums and things like that and and we

00:41:19.440 kind of had this experience but we we didn't really get it you know like well you know this this trampoline

00:41:25.040 park is only really going to be fun if we drop a hundred dollars at the arcade and then buy the pizza

00:41:30.000 and like you know get them the vip pass so they can go on this fun part of it that's otherwise

00:41:35.360 roped off right like everything is becoming like this and the fact that i've now looked at this dynamic

00:41:41.280 is that the buffalo buffalo i'm saving this as my like for what like five bags that i bought

00:41:50.560 is my post c-section reward i have to like you know what's up yeah set some she loves saving things

00:41:58.720 for later delay gratification is like her cocaine i get through things it's how i it's my carrot i need

00:42:05.360 my carrot just walk around with that my carrot is doing what i want when i want yeah i know like

00:42:11.120 literally we got home from trader joe's and that bag immediately was opened but you unlike me had like

00:42:17.120 one bite and then rolled it up and put it in your food cabinet where it's like yeah if you knew how

00:42:23.120 much i've eaten today already you look gone yeah i yeah the baby's taking it all he is actually taking

00:42:32.560 it i swear they're going to open you up again and be like this is so much bigger than we thought

00:42:36.640 yeah okay so my guess is going to be eight pounds and two ounces so we'll see i've been trying yeah

00:42:43.920 anyway but yeah so what what i what i am thinking like what all this research has changed about the

00:42:50.720 way that i look at things so it was like i i still didn't have this i still never worth owning something

00:42:57.200 that isn't a commodity yeah exactly unless unless again it's like it's it's homegrown and and made by

00:43:05.040 people passionate about something so like these these stays that i'm wearing were made by hand by like

00:43:12.000 like nerdy women in portland you know who sold who sold it like through their private brand 1.00

00:43:19.040 it's on etsy french meadows but like they also have their own website frenchmeadows.com i don't

00:43:23.440 they're they're not a sponsor but i freaking love them and like you can get a luxury product from them

00:43:29.040 and actually so i've had like stays that i purchased and then the the boning comes through and that's

00:43:34.480 actually happened on these two but i don't want to tell them about it because i don't want to exploit them

00:43:38.240 but like they're literally like oh we'll just send you a new one when they get a little bit broken

00:43:43.600 and i just sent one back and they sent me a new one like that is where luxury is now it's in

00:43:48.960 community-based like otaku people who are passionate or within your own community or your own family

00:43:55.360 like that is where you can get it so you can still get it but trying to get a happy experience from any

00:44:02.560 large corporate brand is increasingly becoming an exercise in frustration and as much as apparently

00:44:10.160 japan hasn't figured this out with their tourism industry and i do not understand how or why

00:44:16.480 it's going to spread everywhere so even if you're you know one of our romanian listeners or one of our 0.94

00:44:21.040 german listeners and maybe this isn't happening there yet it's i mean it's only a matter of time i feel

00:44:28.000 like there's just this darwinian business thing where like the businesses that survive are going

00:44:31.760 to be the ones that do this because it works it's worked for disney again like they're still at

00:44:37.680 pre-pandemic levels in park attendance and they're fine with that and like they're they're literal like

00:44:44.320 here's a here's an article in the mirror about how like influencers are walking around disney parks in

00:44:50.240 florida and it's just empty you know there's no lines no weights like really yeah because nobody's

00:44:56.240 going anymore because only for the super race well in this specific one that they they cite in this

00:45:00.720 was on labor day weekend this guy goes to a disney park in orlando and films it and it is just a

00:45:07.680 wasteland does not care because they're still making money they don't it's really they do not care

00:45:21.120 even on days when park attendance is low they're making same amount of money pretty much

00:45:26.640 so yeah i just i'm grateful that you were like hey dig into this because i was like i don't know

00:45:34.480 i know everything there is to know about this and i'm like i watch all the disney influencers i do it's

00:45:40.640 fun i like it a lot but yeah we it's official we're quitting disney not that we ever were

00:45:51.280 that disney but i liked it there was a time in my adolescence when my eyes would well up with tears

00:45:59.200 when i heard the little jingle with the castle at the beginning of a disney movie

00:46:04.000 oh my gosh they they ruined that was the movie wish upon a star they ruined all of it yeah about how

00:46:10.560 entitlement is awesome because the bad guy in that was absolutely in the right they're like i should

00:46:15.840 never have to give up anything i want was basically the justification of that movie yeah

00:46:20.000 yeah i mean didn't disney just in canto i think i mean canto was really great i thought it was really

00:46:26.560 good they just they still are capable of it in canto is the only thing they've done recently that

00:46:31.840 in canto and frozen are the only moana frozen i haven't watched moana too like moana has one

00:46:37.680 good song there's nothing else about it that's decent it is one good song period i guess you liked

00:46:42.800 the crab song yeah i like the crab song but no i think it only has one good song it's a great song

00:46:48.720 but it is one good song for one is it is that the one uh about like grateful you're you're welcome

00:46:54.800 yeah with the is that about men for women in society it's the patriarchy song about the patriarchy

00:47:05.520 that's why it's so great it's so based i mean they didn't realize they're doing it but it was like

00:47:11.120 the barbie movie it happened even yeah but yeah i just yeah i'm curious to see what people think

00:47:18.400 about this episode when it comes out curious to that i get to be married to somebody who doesn't

00:47:23.520 want anything but commodities and like and i i love this lifestyle commodity maxing commodity maxing

00:47:29.840 but no but also like we're actually happy that's that's the crazy thing children are the luxury item in

00:47:34.960 our life children are the only luxury item that really matters they i will say i have never and

00:47:42.000 i'm not a kid person i've never felt so wealthy as i feel so abundant as when like three of our kids

00:47:50.960 are struggling to all sit in my lap as as we read a book together i'm like all they do i love them

00:47:56.640 they're like i get this section of the lap i get this section of the lap and it's it's it is a feat

00:48:01.840 because i have this this this giant belly and there's like not there's not much room to sit

00:48:08.320 and they're they're figuring it out life finds a way i find them not soon not with five kids i don't

00:48:15.360 know what's that gonna happen soon but one on the shoulders i guess so you know we need to build some

00:48:19.840 kind of contraption that allows like some kind of shelving system around us i don't know but god i love

00:48:27.360 them it yeah i i didn't know this was possible there's no way though there's no way that you can

00:48:32.000 pitch kids to someone who hasn't had them themselves that would i think give them a feeling of what it

00:48:39.520 what it's really like maybe if you grew up with a lot of siblings because you kind of partially raised

00:48:44.400 them you you would understand the camaraderie otherwise i don't know anyway i love you a lot i love you too i'm

00:48:52.480 gonna go very spectacular woman for making all of these kids and somehow still being grateful to me 0.91

00:48:57.920 even though i don't give you your disney trips we tried to cruise this last year and we're like not

00:49:02.880 again but now octavian our oldest wants to make a cruise for a hundred kids they all know they all

00:49:08.400 still want to go on a cruise which is weird they didn't enjoy it that much when we were doing it they

00:49:12.880 just they didn't concept in their memory of a cruise yeah it was there was a lot of crying there

00:49:18.400 were a lot of meltdowns we we tried to eat in the restaurant the first few nights and then we're

00:49:23.760 like this just isn't worth it so we ended up i had a big wagon to carry them around the ship safely

00:49:30.240 and i would just we would go up to the restaurant order the food and then i would get like takeout

00:49:36.400 plates and fill the wagon with them and we would just eat in our room this tiny little room and it was

00:49:42.000 cozy it was nice but like you know i mean i'm glad that we didn't pay for it i'm glad it was 100 on

00:49:50.400 points because i don't know we wouldn't have ever paid for something like that anyway but yeah anyway

00:49:56.320 love you to death i love you too

00:50:00.880 and remember with toasty being sick i don't want you picking him up or anything i got him if he can

00:50:06.240 eat in bed in any way you let me know oh i'll just bring him some snack packs with oranges and pears

00:50:13.280 and apples and if he eats eats i think that's a good way to do it i don't wanna we can handle his

00:50:19.920 bed and i will clean out his bed you know oh of all the food that he throws into it yes you don't have

00:50:27.040 to worry he thinks he's so clever if he hides then i love the one about cheating where you you would have

00:50:34.800 him you say you know eat your cheese stick and i will give you your ipad and then one day you're

00:50:41.680 cleaning out his bed and you find all these like rotting cheese sticks stuff somewhere and you show

00:50:46.000 it to toasty and he goes well mom kids cheat sometimes like boys get their ipads

00:50:55.520 by the way we don't give our kids actual ipads and we're not rolling in money oh good heavens no no no

00:51:01.040 cheap tablets but yeah but i mean the term ipads has been commodified kind of apropos actually for

00:51:09.680 this this is gonna lose their patent hopefully you know if everything's an ipad they have so much money

00:51:16.160 in their war chest they can just make up you know but i feel like i devices are kind of falling apart

00:51:22.960 anyway but i am really excited about apple i haven't i haven't seen it around that much their their play

00:51:30.240 is going to be the smart house and i think that they can do that really well a lot of people get

00:51:36.560 locked into apple because they they like the integration they like that their their smartwatch

00:51:43.680 and their phone and their laptop and their tv are also so smoothly together and it can be really hard

00:51:52.000 to get out of that it's it's an addictive cycle so i think they're leaning into that and it makes sense to

00:51:58.880 only lean into those power users anyway which is again a big theme of this this podcast actually

00:52:05.760 i'm excited to get into it so i guess i'll just and tonight i'm doing just faux and seaweed in the

00:52:12.960 faux and then some noodles in the faux yes but with pot stickers or no nothing the point of this stuff is

00:52:22.320 just nothing else just the faux okay all right so no no proteins you're trying to avoid i explained to

00:52:28.480 you i know broth has lots of it's but it's full broth bone broth yes it is it is beef or bone broth and

00:52:37.120 it's you pointed out it has about as much protein in it as a protein bar

00:52:41.120 if you've like three or two cups which is what a what a bowl of it is i guess yeah i gave you pretty

00:52:51.200 sizable bowls okay okay no so on so on so on so on how would i get married to you i don't know man

00:53:01.600 i i definitely won this one out i i'm the winner here the better end of the lollipop but anyway let's

00:53:11.360 see i don't know the better end of the lollipop yeah sure anyway honestly i'm like toasty i hate candy

00:53:17.920 so much so i would actually prefer to eat the stick than the the end and that's why you think

00:53:22.000 you got the better end no but that's the brilliant thing is actually both of us did get

00:53:27.200 the better end of the lollipop because we each desperately need like my shortcomings are so

00:53:34.480 shored up by your strengths yeah my shortcomings are that i'm lazy and malcolm you were the least

00:53:41.520 self-indulgent who got up at 2 a.m this morning and was not only vibe coding and prepping another

00:53:46.880 podcast episode but taking care of our infant and our our sick four-year-old i didn't want them to wake

00:53:52.960 you up because you're pregnant that's not like being diligent or anything i'm sorry no you don't

00:53:57.920 get to no you're not lazy you're and i had to get stuff done this morning i'm i'm getting a lot done

00:54:02.480 with rfab yeah it's gonna be so advanced i'm so excited it's awesome like twice the website of

00:54:09.680 what's up right now which is which is working and decent and do let us know rfab.ai it's like an ai

00:54:15.840 adventure interaction system if you if you give any feedback it is hugely appreciated at this stage yeah

00:54:22.240 and huge thanks to everyone who has given feedback so far the free token claims that are on the site

00:54:27.040 every day i don't know if users have realized we give pretty generous daily free token amounts

00:54:31.920 but yeah that is nice considering what people have to shell out these days so

00:54:35.120 if you're into this stuff good offer if you guys do this you're gonna get hurt you know that right

00:54:40.400 help me i told you you'd be hurt

00:54:48.960 let's do it let's do it again what oh no

00:55:02.960 do you want me to blow those up for you

00:55:15.760 blow this up for me no that's okay 0.87

Based Camp - October 29, 2025

Disney Abandoned America for the 1%

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