Based Camp - Do We Still Need Women？

00:00:00.000 These submission rituals that you see within these, you know, BDSM communities and stuff like that, very similar rituals sort of co-evolved in many religious communities.

00:00:10.820 Whether you're talking about, you know, ultra-Orthodox Jewish Teflin, Catholic Opus Dei, like, whipping thing and stuff like that. 0.55

00:00:18.160 And I don't think that any of this is because these cultures have been influenced by sexual cultures.

00:00:22.120 I think it's that both represent extreme forms of submission and that extreme forms of submission, whether they be to masturbate a feeling instinct or to show supplication to a genuine great power, are going to have some degree of co-evolution.

00:00:40.700 Would you like to know more?

00:00:41.640 So, you guys might know this from our other content, I'll talk while you're getting ready, but that we don't use heating in our house in the winter because we believe in extreme frugality, like, suffering edifies the spirit, everything like that, you know?

00:00:54.420 But, or, last year, when she wasn't pregnant, she was wearing a Russian that she bought from, like, somewhere in Siberia where she could get cheap.

00:01:02.340 You know what I'm going to do?

00:01:03.100 I am going to, I'm going to share a picture with our audience because this is just too much.

00:01:09.020 But, what she has done, and you can talk a bit how you came to this, you know, we're talking about pragmaxing in life.

00:01:15.060 What you did is you said, okay, so, first, you know, where do people live in really cold environments?

00:01:21.300 And then you got these, these, these sew suits that make you look like a, somebody should be called Natasha, like a James Bond villain or something.

00:01:27.420 And now, because you're pregnant, you can't wear them anymore.

00:01:30.120 And so, she's like, okay, when did people have to deal with pregnancy and cold environments without heating?

00:01:34.980 And so, she went back and took inspiration from medieval outfits.

00:01:37.720 And I'd love it if you could talk a bit about how your layering process works with this.

00:01:43.240 Yeah, it's, it's brilliant.

00:01:44.900 I think this is much better maternity wear.

00:01:46.660 One, because actually, when you go back to, I mean, before the Industrial Revolution, everyone just kind of wore the same outfit all the time.

00:01:53.400 So, your outfit had to grow with you.

00:01:55.520 If you got fatter, if you got thinner, it would have to grow with you or shrink with you.

00:01:58.580 If you got pregnant, it would have to grow or shrink with you. 1.00

00:02:00.600 So, I was like, oh, yeah, then probably the best clothing I should wear if I'm changing sizes is clothing from a different age.

00:02:07.380 And so, for the winter to stay warm, I'm basically wearing, like, thermal underwear.

00:02:13.120 And over that, I'm wearing a chemise.

00:02:15.820 And I have a, like, I guess you could say it's kind of like a corset or stays.

00:02:22.000 And then a long skirt. 0.95

00:02:23.640 And then a really heavy wool coat.

00:02:26.020 And it just feels great.

00:02:27.300 So, I think it's much better maternity wear than the gross stuff that most women are forcing themselves to wear while they get larger. 1.00

00:02:34.980 And a great thing about this is you can wear it pregnancy after pregnancy and year after year and day after day.

00:02:40.380 Because this is a type of clothing that's designed to be worn almost every day.

00:02:44.080 Yeah, it's super durable.

00:02:45.300 It's very practical.

00:02:46.320 And it's extremely comfortable.

00:02:47.880 So, highly recommend it.

00:02:49.940 With just changing out the underlayer, obviously.

00:02:52.340 But, okay, so I am going to prime you with something that happened to me at this art conference we went to.

00:02:58.560 Which is, like, a conservative Davos thing that was hosted by, like, Jordan Peterson and Luis Perry.

00:03:02.540 Anyway, in the U.K., the conservatives are quite different than the conservatives in the U.S.

00:03:06.740 They are more like small C conservatives.

00:03:09.460 And the feminist side of the movement is much, much bigger there. 1.00

00:03:12.320 Because TERFs make up a big part of the conservative movement out there.

00:03:15.140 Anyway, so I was talking to them about, oh, you know, the IBF, artificial wombs, stuff like that. 0.77

00:03:20.580 And this one woman just lost it. 1.00

00:03:25.120 She goes, what?

00:03:26.540 Artificial wombs are the most evil thing ever. 1.00

00:03:29.560 If we have artificial wombs, what's even the point of women? 1.00

00:03:33.480 Nothing could be more anti-feminist than artificial wombs. 1.00

00:03:37.560 Hold on.

00:03:39.020 Wait.

00:03:39.800 A feminist woman thought that the only point of women was gestation? 1.00

00:03:44.840 Well, keep in mind, and this is actually really interesting.

00:03:47.540 So these women in this conservative movement, they have a very conservative view of what a woman's role is. 0.98

00:03:53.100 Have kids.

00:03:54.040 Care for the home.

00:03:54.980 Care for the kids.

00:03:55.840 Right?

00:03:56.100 Is that feminist? 1.00

00:03:56.640 Well, it's not.

00:03:59.320 This is TERF feminism. 1.00

00:04:00.860 It's a little different from what we see.

00:04:02.360 It's a female-focused agenda. 1.00

00:04:05.400 But, and excuse me, Simone, this is a good win for women. 0.99

00:04:10.920 Women really talk themselves out of a pretty good position. 1.00

00:04:14.280 Today, we're like, oh, it's so anti-feminist to say women shouldn't have to work and just stay at home all day with modern appliances caring for, like, two measly kids. 0.99

00:04:23.380 In a modern age, the idea of women as gestational managers and parents is actually pretty cush.

00:04:29.580 I mean, in the old age, like in the ages of the clothing that I'm, like, mocking, you know, women died at childbirth at really high rates.

00:04:38.160 It was actually a pretty risky profession.

00:04:40.320 Yeah, and we've repeatedly seen this from women in this aspect of the conservative movement, you know, just horrified by artificial wombs, making women less necessary in the way that they define what womanhood is.

00:04:53.380 And this moment was really interesting to me because what it demonstrated to me, like, I was just trying to, like, think about actually what her mindset must be to be worried about this.

00:05:04.380 Yeah.

00:05:04.720 Which is to say, yeah, we could, with artificial wombs, create a society in which you don't need women at all. 1.00

00:05:13.980 But why is that a bad thing?

00:05:16.480 Like, you, woman, you can have boys. 0.99

00:05:19.720 You know that, right?

00:05:20.920 Like, and these boys are part you, right?

00:05:24.380 It showed to me that she identified more with her gender than with her culture or family line or even own children.

00:05:35.680 Well, but it also demonstrates a pretty significant amount of hatred towards women because if you think that the only reason women are kept relevant in society is because they have gestational gatekeeping ability, that when that goes away, when basically men no longer have to depend on women for wombs, the assumption is that, like, women will completely lose their position in society implies that she doesn't think women have any other value.

00:06:00.960 Oh, hold on.

00:06:30.960 Yeah.

00:06:31.960 The first question I'm always going to be, like, you mean a trans woman, right?

00:06:34.220 Or when I hear a woman in Silicon Valley has a really high, like, coding position at Google, it's, like, you mean a trans woman, right?

00:06:41.120 And it's almost, like, 70% of the time they're, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, trans woman. 0.56

00:06:44.000 And one of the things that you had pointed out about trans women is that when they are in a privileged position of being able to pass, they can focus much more on feminine displays than even women can because women have never seen things from the other perspective or been able to study it as critically and clinically.

00:07:06.620 Well, and also, like, when it comes to many of the things that women sort of struggle with, like, weight or, like, there's some builds that, like, basically someone starting from, I don't know, a male blank or a male starting point, you can actually have a really great look as a female when you, like, switch over to that.

00:07:22.820 So it's really hard for a woman to compete with her, like, you know, depending on the look you're going for, like, you know, I feel like I've grossed under thighs and I would much prefer, like, men's legs, to be honest. 0.99

00:07:35.280 Like, so, like, I think a lot of women are also, like, looking really jealously. 0.91

00:07:38.280 She really doesn't, by the way.

00:07:39.740 She has great legs. 1.00

00:07:41.020 The lean, slender bodies of men that transition successfully and are just, you know, like, insanely jealous.

00:07:47.420 But, I mean, yeah, I do think it's hard for women to compete with some, but, I mean, I think that's also just a really pessimistic view of the value that women can bring to the table.

00:07:57.560 So Erin thought here that I'd never really had before.

00:08:01.720 Trans women often have hobby interests, and I'm not saying always, but often have hobby interests that are much more in line with men's hobby interests.

00:08:12.020 So when I meet a woman in a heavily male-dominated genre of hobbies, like collecting guns or Warhammer or obscure video games or other ultra-nerdy pursuits, they are disproportionately trans women. 0.99

00:08:32.860 If we're taking the perspective that trans women are actually women who were born into men's bodies, this seems incongruous with that perspective.

00:08:43.920 Okay, so I'm asking you objectively.

00:08:46.140 Objectively speaking.

00:08:47.160 Okay, so we're talking about the ways that women are different from men.

00:08:50.220 Yeah.

00:08:50.660 What are the things you think that, on average, women do better than men?

00:08:55.320 And with each of these things, judge whether if you got rid of one gender, society would be worse off. 1.00

00:09:01.160 Go.

00:09:01.480 Oh, God.

00:09:04.860 I'm not the most pro-woman person out there.

00:09:10.860 My problem is all the women friends that I like most are probably on the spectrum and thereby are kind of less female in many ways because they don't do a lot of the social games that I can't handle. 0.99

00:09:23.640 And I find interacting with traditionally, like hormonally normal, neurotypical women, it's really stressful. 0.99

00:09:34.260 So I'm not the best.

00:09:35.980 So you have antagonism towards neurotypical women more broadly?

00:09:39.160 Well, I think my problem is that I want to interact with people who speak plainly, who say what they feel and are straightforward about things.

00:09:51.720 And with many neurotypical women that both you and I interact with, I feel like I cannot win because I don't speak their language. 1.00

00:10:01.000 And they're playing a game and I'm not.

00:10:03.920 And then somehow I'm insulting them by not playing this game.

00:10:07.060 And that's really stressful for me.

00:10:09.160 And then, you know, I feel like we've lost some friends because of that, because I can't play their games.

00:10:14.040 And that makes me really sad because we've known a lot of cool people that then I can't be friends with.

00:10:19.360 And so I miss all my, you know, but with that being the case, wouldn't our cultural group be better if we were all men?

00:10:28.080 So I don't I don't I don't believe this myself.

00:10:30.720 I'm just asking hypothetically.

00:10:31.980 Yeah.

00:10:32.320 I mean, OK, so I'm looking at two.

00:10:34.700 When you said that, I sort of viewed two realities.

00:10:37.480 One, I viewed like the free radical problem, you know, sort of like a lot of like high testosterone, uncoupled men who are like, you know, just high risk, high rewards.

00:10:45.060 It's just like sort of, you know, complete anarchy, violence, you know, just just a mess.

00:10:50.600 Right. Like, I don't I don't like that.

00:10:52.140 You know, I I don't really want the Bronze Age mindset reality of, you know, raiding and everything, which I guess is actually less fun when there are no women to have been pillaged.

00:11:00.680 Right. But whatever.

00:11:01.920 And then I view the other the other world, which is just like complete gay anarchy, just like orgies, like super hot men everywhere. 0.99

00:11:10.880 And then I'm like, oh, OK, like gay world. 0.99

00:11:13.340 This sounds really fun. Like, sign me up for that.

00:11:16.280 I mean, presumably you'd be able to control people's sexuality in this world.

00:11:20.400 Yeah. And I feel like a world full of gay men is a happier and more functional, lower drama world than a world full of gay men is a lower drama world. 1.00

00:11:31.680 Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's drama, but it's not toxic drama as much, if you know what I mean.

00:11:38.200 I know what you mean. I know what you mean. I just thought that was a funny statement. Come on.

00:11:41.440 Here's another path we could go.

00:11:44.400 Something that came up in the Razeeb episode that we shared recently and we've talked about in a few episodes is the concept of the Tylaxio and Oxyodal tanks, right?

00:11:53.760 Which is you wouldn't even need Oxyodal tanks. You could just replace women with artificial women. 1.00

00:11:57.340 It's fine for our audience, Oxyodal tanks.

00:12:00.540 It's essentially degraded. If you're looking at the original series and not the weird things his son wrote in the Dune universe, it's what happened to the females of the Tylaxio population. 1.00

00:12:10.860 And not individual females. These are genetically engineered beings that are based on a female template that are meant to make artificial wombs easier to operate through connecting to their bloodstream and their original reproductive system. 1.00

00:12:26.140 But they just use them to churn out lots of people. They don't have, you know, sentience or much consciousness.

00:12:32.240 They're just sort of like blobs connected to tanks.

00:12:36.020 Now, alternatively, the Tylaxio men are designed to look more like, I'd say, older children.

00:12:45.180 So let's say people who are like 15 or something like that, kind of like elfish and a little impish.

00:12:50.800 So the idea being is that if you have this much control over the future, like, and you're choosing an iteration of male that you are freezing us at, or an iteration of female, would you freeze us at young men?

00:13:03.460 Or would you freeze us at old men? Because you talk about this, like, Bronze Age pervert world. 1.00

00:13:07.020 Obviously, you're not going to get a Bronze Age pervert world if you have, like, a bunch of sociopathic, high IQ, 15-year-old men. 0.56

00:13:16.120 I mean, I don't know. 0.89

00:13:17.920 You have largely been sterilized.

00:13:19.220 Like, they don't feel sexuality at all.

00:13:23.580 Yeah. So what is the ideal?

00:13:26.100 Well, I mean, okay, I'll ask this question in a different way.

00:13:28.900 What if we just got rid of sexuality altogether?

00:13:31.080 Like, if you, would you, do you think, like, an iteration of humanity would be better if you bred them to not have any sexual drives at all? 0.97

00:13:40.360 You know, I think sexuality really doesn't, and this sounds stupid to say now that I'm saying it, but doesn't play that huge of a role.

00:13:46.640 I mean, I think it's sexual dimorphism that plays a bigger role in just sort of the day-to-day way that men and women react differently to scenarios.

00:13:53.960 That women are reacting based on very different internal models, based on different, on average, tendencies than men.

00:14:01.400 That's true.

00:14:02.400 You know, obviously, sex drive is huge, especially for men with high levels of testosterone, less so for women on average.

00:14:10.580 It shows up in different ways, of course.

00:14:12.220 You know, more like dominant submission interest, which, of course, can also play into the politics that freak me out so much and make me less comfortable around women, right? 0.76

00:14:19.700 But I think it's those issues and not necessarily sexuality, which is something that actually came up in our book a lot, that, like, in the end, so much of sex is not at all about sex.

00:14:29.380 It's about how you view yourself.

00:14:30.980 It's about your identity.

00:14:32.680 It's about how you're validating yourself.

00:14:34.480 But the actual act itself is kind of...

00:14:37.700 I agree with everything you're saying was one caveat.

00:14:41.720 I think a lot of female behavior, even the stuff that's not just, like, born gendered, is heavily influenced by their capacity as gatekeepers of sexual access to the extent that it's not sex itself that is causing this.

00:14:57.740 It's just the way that human females are born. 1.00

00:15:00.840 They're the limiting factor.

00:15:01.860 Yeah, and them being gatekeepers of sexual access gives them, within open sexual marketplaces, or at least attractive women or women as a group, inordinate political power. 1.00

00:15:12.500 I mean, I think that that's actually the big thing that women have used to their advantage within our existing political system. 1.00

00:15:17.500 Only insofar as men have sex drives, and I think, actually, this is changing a lot.

00:15:21.380 Yeah, good point.

00:15:22.200 As we're sort of entering an age of more sexless men, and men who are just like, you know what, not going to care that much, women are losing a lot of that power, and that dynamic is changing.

00:15:32.500 So I don't know if that is as true today, and certainly tomorrow, as it may have been 20, 30, 50 years ago.

00:15:40.000 Oh, yeah.

00:15:40.300 A lot of women screech over this. 1.00

00:15:42.480 I also think that this is something worth pointing out from a male perspective as well.

00:15:46.560 And I just want to talk about, like, how insane it is, because there are men who do this, who identify more with their gender than they identify with their cultural group, or children, or parents, or people, or country.

00:15:59.600 Gender should be, like, such a low thing on the things you identify with. 1.00

00:16:03.500 Now, I can understand why people identify with it, right?

00:16:07.160 I think a core reason is, is we have, like, strong drives and strong cultural precedent when we're growing up, like, in our 20s, when we're determining who we are, what we think of ourselves, to find a partner.

00:16:21.560 And the challenges that you face in finding a partner are going to be heavily, heavily, heavily gendered. 0.74

00:16:27.280 And through that, you will communicate and engage heavily with communities that are going to be heavily gendered and primarily complaining about the opposite gender, which is going to cause this level of identification during many individuals' formative years.

00:16:42.540 It's just, I think, important that people, like, approach this with some sanity.

00:16:47.080 Like, yes, things may be unfair for your gender.

00:16:49.620 I get that, you know, but at the end of the day, as my favorite movie that we use in every episode here at the beginning says, we're in this for the species, boys and girls.

00:16:59.440 It's simple numbers.

00:17:00.700 They have more.

00:17:02.000 And this is what we talk about, the enemies of prenatalism, is that if you want to exist in the future, you've got to find a way to make it work with the other gender. 0.94

00:17:12.600 And it's hard.

00:17:13.340 It's hard, right?

00:17:14.300 And things are unfair now, but I think approaching everyone from the opposite gender as if they're, like, an alien species and totally heartless is really going to create problems. 1.00

00:17:25.040 I am saying this as a complete hypocrite because I just sat here with a wife who already said, yeah, I think so much more like a guy than a girl that, like, actually girls scare me and I'm afraid to interact with them.

00:17:35.760 I mean, I don't think that much like guys either.

00:17:41.120 I just, I think like a blank, but.

00:17:44.600 A mentat, if we're going with Dune references here.

00:17:47.360 Yeah, mentat thinking.

00:17:49.540 Because, you know, guys think super differently too.

00:17:52.140 It's just that guys think in a much more straightforward and transparent way.

00:17:55.520 And there aren't as many mind games and, like, hidden grudges and terrifying, like, back channel things going on.

00:18:03.640 So, God, you know, unless you're a man in Dune, by the way, you know, unless you're, you know, what is it?

00:18:10.060 Harkonnen?

00:18:10.780 Yeah.

00:18:11.000 Harkonnen, yes.

00:18:12.180 They're like the women of the Dune universe. 1.00

00:18:14.260 Cannot.

00:18:14.660 I mean, they're great, but stressful.

00:18:17.000 Yeah.

00:18:18.600 I just don't know.

00:18:19.780 I feel like.

00:18:21.420 So I'm going to present you with a different idea here.

00:18:23.640 I think if you took sexuality out of humanity, if you took gender out of humanity, a lot of motivation for, I think, many parts of humanity that people instill as the highest parts of humanity, like art and music and culture, would disappear.

00:18:38.000 Yeah.

00:18:38.420 Yeah.

00:18:38.600 In fact, we often mention, I often mention the Futurama episode on robo-sexuality, which pointed out that when men could just date robots instead of women, the motivation for, you know, it was like art, music.

00:18:52.240 And then it showed men not being able to date other men.

00:18:54.620 Theater disappeared.

00:18:56.220 What is, what is that weapon with two rocks and a string in between where the rocks use their momentum to throw each other forward?

00:19:03.740 A flail?

00:19:04.460 There are types of flails, but you're generally talking about a flail.

00:19:06.820 Yes.

00:19:07.020 Okay.

00:19:07.360 So I think men and women act like a flail where like there's tension between them, but flying through the air, one gives you-

00:19:14.240 Oh, you're talking about Ebola.

00:19:15.500 Ebola.

00:19:16.260 Yeah.

00:19:16.520 Okay.

00:19:16.720 Sorry, I thought you were talking about a flail is two balls tied to the end of a stick.

00:19:21.560 Ebola is two balls connected by a string that's used for chirping people.

00:19:24.700 Yes.

00:19:24.840 That's what I'm, yes, that's what I'm talking about.

00:19:26.480 By brain, useless knowledge of weapons I'll never know use.

00:19:32.340 I'm glad you play as many video games as you do.

00:19:34.800 Well, the funny, well, I don't know like bola from video games.

00:19:37.280 It's not used that frequently, but I love that guys would be like, these are things that literally every human in the world knows what they are.

00:19:43.960 Ebola and a flail. And yet I bet like 50% of women have no idea.

00:19:48.880 I mean, I knew what it was. I didn't know its name, but I do feel like there's this tension and interplay between men and women.

00:19:55.480 But, you know, you and I have the same philosophy about cultures.

00:19:58.120 We really think that variation and competition and tension are incredibly useful.

00:20:03.260 The disagreement is incredibly useful. The different mindsets are incredibly useful.

00:20:07.120 Yeah.

00:20:07.360 So we would be against the idea. I mean, if anything, we would like there to be more genders than fewer genders. 0.86

00:20:13.520 If anything, we should be like thrilled that there are all these additional weird genders. 1.00

00:20:17.120 I think our only problem with them is we think that they're performative rather than real.

00:20:20.760 If they were real and they actually did contribute genuinely different perspectives, we would be stoked.

00:20:27.100 Yeah. I think that's an interesting point. Yeah.

00:20:30.520 And could that lead to more art if you had more genders and more of a relationship drives other than just sex and romance? 1.00

00:20:39.180 Yeah. Like what if we lived in the Omega universe, the Omegaverse?

00:20:42.580 Oh my God.

00:20:43.520 This women's fantasy universe where there are, there are what? Alphas, Betas, and Omegas. 1.00

00:20:48.920 There are like three genders and it creates all this. 1.00

00:20:51.440 And they're all male basically.

00:20:53.140 So they, okay, I'm going to see if I can remember this.

00:20:55.500 So they all present male and Alphas mate with Betas.

00:21:00.600 And when an Alpha mates with a Beta, the Beta, like they, they latch like a dog does.

00:21:06.960 We're like, they're...

00:21:08.160 Nodding.

00:21:09.200 Is that what it's called?

00:21:10.160 Nodding.

00:21:11.020 Nodding. Nodding. Yes.

00:21:12.280 And they have to like stay together until they finish.

00:21:15.340 And they like have these like heat periods and stuff like that.

00:21:18.880 And then like Omegas can like transform into an Alpha when they're around a Beta or transform into a Beta when they're around an Alpha.

00:21:25.900 Depending on like what they're interested in in the moment.

00:21:28.840 And it transforms the ways they relate sexually and like heat cycles and stuff like that.

00:21:33.720 I strongly suggest if you're, if this sounds at all interesting to you, well, we can do another episode where I prep on it beforehand and remember actually all of this universe.

00:21:42.600 Because I find this fascinating.

00:21:44.020 It is fascinating.

00:21:45.000 When the Gorian world, we could also include that.

00:21:47.700 Right.

00:21:47.900 Because that's really interesting as well.

00:21:49.360 This is a world just for people who are interested.

00:21:51.980 So there's these people who went and asked, okay, well, I think, you know, women seem to have this desire to be submissive in relationships. 0.58

00:22:02.560 And males seem to be more likely have this desire to be dominant in relationships.

00:22:07.460 And like a normal person would be like, okay, well, let's like try to craft like a new way to have like dominant men or something like that.

00:22:13.980 They were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:15.720 Let's just go back to the way we did this historically.

00:22:17.540 And people would be like, oh, you mean like a traditional like taken in hand marriage?

00:22:20.760 And they're like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:21.980 I mean like I want Conan the Barbarian World.

00:22:24.740 Yeah, like a 1980s or 1970s sci-fi traditional.

00:22:28.360 Yeah, where like they dance for men in their outfits and stuff like that as like part of like mating rituals and then do like bows and stuff. 0.99

00:22:38.320 And there's all these rituals for how they interact because they wanted this world of submission, dominance, and tons of rituals.

00:22:45.000 But they didn't remember enough of our historic rituals.

00:22:47.500 So they just like borrowed them from this Conan like book series.

00:22:50.840 Yeah, yeah, like basically this sci-fi series was the basis of what then became a weird, I guess you could say somewhat BDSM, but a lot more intense subculture, which pretty much has disappeared.

00:23:02.420 But you can still find some like old forum archives.

00:23:05.480 It was important in the days of the early internet.

00:23:08.100 Yeah, and keep in mind, this is something that really like women got excited about. 1.00

00:23:13.520 The people who are posting a lot are the women who are in these Gorian relationships who are enslaved to their master husbands. 0.52

00:23:21.720 And I think, you know, ultimately the guys who were agreeing to this, probably like a decent percentage of them, maybe 60%, were probably a little put upon to have to do all this.

00:23:32.400 Because it was like arbitrage plays.

00:23:34.540 Well, yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it was a lot of work.

00:23:37.520 You'd have to like, you'd have to, you know, ritually like beat her up and, you know, like do the rituals and all this stuff and like know all the rules.

00:23:46.760 And I think for a lot of guys, they're like, dude, I just, I just want you to be happy and I want you to love me.

00:23:51.980 Whereas like when you're doing one of these like, like big time ritualized taken in hand BDSM complicated instructions kind of relationships.

00:24:00.080 I don't think that's what most guys really want.

00:24:02.360 I think most guys just want a supportive wife who loves them.

00:24:06.120 And then it's a lot of work.

00:24:07.780 This is what they're having to do to get even a simulacrum of that.

00:24:11.180 Right.

00:24:11.820 I love, it's like guys are like, oh yeah, I want a wife who's submissive and breedable. 0.74

00:24:16.580 I want a submissive and breedable cat girl wife. 1.00

00:24:18.720 And then they get one of these 24-7 cat cosplay women, you know, who's like, I want a 24-7 cat relationship. 1.00

00:24:24.780 And they're like, okay, well, I actually am not that cool with you walking on all fours all the time.

00:24:30.920 And I have to like buy you food.

00:24:31.560 Can't we just like play video games and order pizza, please?

00:24:33.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:35.220 These types of relationships are actually an incredible amount of work to maintain.

00:24:40.040 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:40.580 And I think they're mostly for the submissive person.

00:24:43.660 Like in the vast majority of cases, it seems that these relationships really are for the benefit of the submissive partner.

00:24:49.540 Because really, it's all about kind of pleasing them and keeping them in line.

00:24:54.900 And I feel bad for the dominant partners who are put upon. 0.95

00:24:58.060 Yeah, I was looking at a 4chan post not long ago and some guy was like, you know, why do we even like do these things for our girlfriends when a girlfriend is just a B-I-T-C-H that we, you know, sex our ex at times and we sleep with. 0.97

00:25:13.200 Yeah, we F.

00:25:13.960 And a lot of young guys, I think they enter communities and they think that by saying things like this, they are signaling that they are like high status males.

00:25:21.440 Yeah.

00:25:51.420 Does it make you look cool to say that?

00:25:53.100 Like what I think when somebody says that is like, oh, so you're like a Gorian or something.

00:25:56.480 Like you plan to have like a 24-7 like a taken in hand relationship where you're having to put up with all of these crazy rituals for this woman that you found because you convinced yourself that that's what you needed to do to be a dominant male.

00:26:11.160 So stressful.

00:26:11.920 But I don't think the vast majority of those men in those relationships, any sort of like really heavy dominance relationship of this sort, of like the weird nerdy sorts, wanted to do it to be tough.

00:26:25.220 I think they did it because a hot woman or a woman that was like of sufficiently competitive value to them really wanted it. 0.94

00:26:32.800 They're all the weird nerdy sorts.

00:26:34.480 Yeah, they were all the weird nerdy sorts.

00:26:36.080 I'm sorry.

00:26:36.580 I look at Andrew Tate playing with his sword. 0.71

00:26:38.820 He's a nerd. 0.98

00:26:39.720 He's a hyper nerd. 0.99

00:26:41.220 Yeah, he's a nerd, but I think he just loves being dominant. 0.96

00:26:44.800 And I think he does.

00:26:46.040 He is one of those few people who is maintaining frame in a relationship because that is what he lives by.

00:26:52.340 It is like truly his identity.

00:26:54.640 He wakes up in frame.

00:26:55.600 He goes to sleep in frame like he is frame.

00:26:58.000 Again, like he is a rare exception.

00:26:59.560 I think he believes the quality of his life is the effectiveness of which he's maintaining frame within relationships.

00:27:05.520 Like that is what makes him a valuable person.

00:27:09.120 I just – no, I think like hormonally he doesn't – he couldn't do it any other way.

00:27:14.180 I don't think this is –

00:27:14.660 No, I disagree with that strongly.

00:27:16.180 Oh, no, no, no.

00:27:17.020 I think self-perception-wise he couldn't do it another way.

00:27:21.320 He has built up this self-perception.

00:27:23.540 I think if I look at the way that he structured relationships and stuff like that, he actually shows a lot of creativity.

00:27:29.460 Like he has like an interesting poly relationship where like his brother and him share a group of girls that live in like a house together.

00:27:36.480 Like that is incredibly creative.

00:27:39.060 Do they share the women or do they just have women at a shared compound though?

00:27:42.800 My understanding is they share the same women.

00:27:44.800 Oh, wow.

00:27:45.600 But they're brothers.

00:27:46.580 Yeah, so that's kind of traditional and kind of not, huh?

00:27:50.480 Yeah, no.

00:27:51.260 And as you said, tater tots before.

00:27:53.300 I just got to remember that.

00:27:54.480 The house is still with little tater tots.

00:27:56.180 Yeah.

00:27:56.780 Little tater baby.

00:27:57.820 Cute little pattering feet.

00:27:59.580 Yeah, no, I think it is hard to engage any of these – and this is why I think they are all nerds, right?

00:28:06.280 When you engage with a differential sexual subculture that's not just going along one of the traditional religious pathways, you are going to differentiate from mainstream society.

00:28:20.540 And through differentiating from mainstream society, you will justly earn the title of nerd or weirdo or something like that.

00:28:27.360 A really interesting thing that we can bring up in this video, we bring it up in our book.

00:28:30.360 It's probably one of our most, I think, spiciest points, but we all don't really dig into this that much, is that these submission rituals that you see within these BDSM communities and stuff like that, very similar rituals sort of co-evolved in many religious communities.

00:28:47.900 You know, whether you're talking about, you know, ultra-Orthodox Jewish Teflon, which just looks like – anyway, it's where they wrap tightly leather around their arms and stuff like that.

00:29:01.300 Yeah, if you're not familiar with it as an outsider, you're like, whoa, is this a sex thing? 0.92

00:29:05.180 This looks like a sex thing. 0.94

00:29:06.640 Yeah. 0.96

00:29:07.040 Another one would be like the Catholic Opus Dei, like, whipping thing and stuff like that.

00:29:11.340 And I don't think that any of this is because these cultures have been influenced by sexual cultures.

00:29:16.020 I think it's that both represent extreme forms of submission, and that extreme forms of submission, whether they be to masturbate a feeling instinct or to show supplication to a genuine great power, are going to have some degree of co-evolution.

00:29:33.920 But it just looks very odd as somebody who likes studying both communities and is separated from both communities to an extent.

00:29:40.440 Yeah.

00:29:42.520 So do we need women not for gestation, not for making us happy, but for providing tension? 1.00

00:29:53.940 Well, okay, to provide tension?

00:29:56.060 I think to provide motivation to men.

00:29:58.080 I think as a guy, I would have a much harder time motivating myself if I wasn't doing it.

00:30:02.680 But why do men like women? 0.92

00:30:07.760 I don't know.

00:30:08.580 That's an interesting question.

00:30:09.680 Like, why do I find it easier?

00:30:11.900 Here's why.

00:30:12.740 More immediate feedback.

00:30:13.940 So I can work every day to try to make the world a better place or something like that, right?

00:30:18.340 But I don't see immediate rewards for that.

00:30:21.060 In fact, most of the world, you know, just hates me for it, right?

00:30:23.900 Because anybody who's trying to change things is almost axiomatically undermining the existing power structure in the world, which is not in the best interest of those who are at the top rungs of that power structure.

00:30:34.380 So they are going to attack me as evil.

00:30:36.380 And that is what I get every day.

00:30:38.560 And so I have to come home and I see your pride in me standing up for my moral values.

00:30:45.480 And I see you telling me, you know, how much you appreciate, how much work I'm putting into things and everything like that.

00:30:51.360 And that appreciation is, I think, something that, like, at a biological level, I am cued into.

00:31:00.300 And this is, I think, why I say when guys are looking for a girl, the number one thing you're looking for is actually gratitude.

00:31:05.420 Commemoration, appreciation.

00:31:06.940 Well, gratitude, the ability to have genuine gratitude for the things you do for them.

00:31:10.200 Do you not think that, like, Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan and their, like, circle of friends are not supportive of each other?

00:31:16.420 I mean, they may express it using different mannerisms, but I think that they're extremely supportive of each other.

00:31:22.740 I know, and I mean this in a completely non-derogatory way.

00:31:26.220 I want to highlight this.

00:31:27.160 But, like, if I did something for my brother's approval, it would feel real gay to me.

00:31:33.040 And I don't mean this in, like, a gay is bad sense.

00:31:36.200 I just mean something about doing something to make somebody else, like, proud of me.

00:31:42.680 If that person is a guy, I don't know.

00:31:45.660 It feels sexual in a way.

00:31:47.360 But not with a woman, which is the gender to which you personally are attracted.

00:31:51.840 That doesn't make sense.

00:31:52.680 Yeah, so what I guess I'm saying and what I guess I'm realizing here is something about the desire to make you proud of the person I'm being day to day is sexual in nature.

00:32:08.000 Oh.

00:32:08.620 Or is coded sexually in my brain because when I think about doing that for a guy, it's like, that feels a little gay. 0.63

00:32:15.740 In the same way, you know, it reminds me of Pulp Fiction when he's like, you know, would you give one of your male friends a foot rub?

00:32:22.400 The guy said the foot rub's not sexual at all.

00:32:24.140 And he's like, no, I wouldn't.

00:32:25.260 And he's like, well, then it is sexual, isn't it?

00:32:27.960 Anyway, I love you to death, Simone.

00:32:29.660 And thank you for the role you play in immediate feedback and appreciating who I'm being in the world.

00:32:35.680 And this is also why we say the most important thing when you marry someone.

00:32:38.880 So I talk about the skill, the trait, gratitude.

00:32:41.200 But when you're marrying somebody, what you're actually asking is not who is that person, but is who does that person want me to become?

00:32:48.940 And are they able to help me become that person?

00:32:51.000 Because if they wanted me, if Simone wanted me to become somebody who I didn't want to become, that would be terrible, right?

00:32:55.500 Like, I'm just married to her.

00:32:58.040 I have to live as me.

00:32:59.460 And yet she transforms me so much.

00:33:02.160 And I love some guys will be like, oh, that's such a beta thing to say that your wife influences you and that you care what she thinks of you.

00:33:08.060 And it's like, you don't look tough saying that.

00:33:11.060 Like, I understand in your little community, you might think that that's a status symbol, but in the real world, that doesn't look like a status symbol.

00:33:18.780 It makes it look like you don't have anyone who cares about you, which is not the flex you might think it is.

00:33:27.940 Love it.

00:33:28.520 Anyway, love you, Simone, and have a wonderful day.

00:33:31.760 You too, husband.

Based Camp - December 05, 2023

Do We Still Need Women？

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