In this episode, we talk about BDSM, maternity wear and the role of women in the conservative movement. We also talk about the dangers of artificial wombs and how to deal with pregnancy in the winter without heating.
00:00:00.000These submission rituals that you see within these, you know, BDSM communities and stuff like that, very similar rituals sort of co-evolved in many religious communities.
00:00:10.820Whether you're talking about, you know, ultra-Orthodox Jewish Teflin, Catholic Opus Dei, like, whipping thing and stuff like that.
00:00:18.160And I don't think that any of this is because these cultures have been influenced by sexual cultures.
00:00:22.120I think it's that both represent extreme forms of submission and that extreme forms of submission, whether they be to masturbate a feeling instinct or to show supplication to a genuine great power, are going to have some degree of co-evolution.
00:00:41.640So, you guys might know this from our other content, I'll talk while you're getting ready, but that we don't use heating in our house in the winter because we believe in extreme frugality, like, suffering edifies the spirit, everything like that, you know?
00:00:54.420But, or, last year, when she wasn't pregnant, she was wearing a Russian that she bought from, like, somewhere in Siberia where she could get cheap.
00:01:03.100I am going to, I'm going to share a picture with our audience because this is just too much.
00:01:09.020But, what she has done, and you can talk a bit how you came to this, you know, we're talking about pragmaxing in life.
00:01:15.060What you did is you said, okay, so, first, you know, where do people live in really cold environments?
00:01:21.300And then you got these, these, these sew suits that make you look like a, somebody should be called Natasha, like a James Bond villain or something.
00:01:27.420And now, because you're pregnant, you can't wear them anymore.
00:01:30.120And so, she's like, okay, when did people have to deal with pregnancy and cold environments without heating?
00:01:34.980And so, she went back and took inspiration from medieval outfits.
00:01:37.720And I'd love it if you could talk a bit about how your layering process works with this.
00:01:44.900I think this is much better maternity wear.
00:01:46.660One, because actually, when you go back to, I mean, before the Industrial Revolution, everyone just kind of wore the same outfit all the time.
00:04:05.400But, and excuse me, Simone, this is a good win for women.
00:04:10.920Women really talk themselves out of a pretty good position.
00:04:14.280Today, we're like, oh, it's so anti-feminist to say women shouldn't have to work and just stay at home all day with modern appliances caring for, like, two measly kids.
00:04:23.380In a modern age, the idea of women as gestational managers and parents is actually pretty cush.
00:04:29.580I mean, in the old age, like in the ages of the clothing that I'm, like, mocking, you know, women died at childbirth at really high rates.
00:04:38.160It was actually a pretty risky profession.
00:04:40.320Yeah, and we've repeatedly seen this from women in this aspect of the conservative movement, you know, just horrified by artificial wombs, making women less necessary in the way that they define what womanhood is.
00:04:53.380And this moment was really interesting to me because what it demonstrated to me, like, I was just trying to, like, think about actually what her mindset must be to be worried about this.
00:05:20.920Like, and these boys are part you, right?
00:05:24.380It showed to me that she identified more with her gender than with her culture or family line or even own children.
00:05:35.680Well, but it also demonstrates a pretty significant amount of hatred towards women because if you think that the only reason women are kept relevant in society is because they have gestational gatekeeping ability, that when that goes away, when basically men no longer have to depend on women for wombs, the assumption is that, like, women will completely lose their position in society implies that she doesn't think women have any other value.
00:06:31.960The first question I'm always going to be, like, you mean a trans woman, right?
00:06:34.220Or when I hear a woman in Silicon Valley has a really high, like, coding position at Google, it's, like, you mean a trans woman, right?
00:06:41.120And it's almost, like, 70% of the time they're, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, trans woman.
00:06:44.000And one of the things that you had pointed out about trans women is that when they are in a privileged position of being able to pass, they can focus much more on feminine displays than even women can because women have never seen things from the other perspective or been able to study it as critically and clinically.
00:07:06.620Well, and also, like, when it comes to many of the things that women sort of struggle with, like, weight or, like, there's some builds that, like, basically someone starting from, I don't know, a male blank or a male starting point, you can actually have a really great look as a female when you, like, switch over to that.
00:07:22.820So it's really hard for a woman to compete with her, like, you know, depending on the look you're going for, like, you know, I feel like I've grossed under thighs and I would much prefer, like, men's legs, to be honest.
00:07:35.280Like, so, like, I think a lot of women are also, like, looking really jealously.
00:07:41.020The lean, slender bodies of men that transition successfully and are just, you know, like, insanely jealous.
00:07:47.420But, I mean, yeah, I do think it's hard for women to compete with some, but, I mean, I think that's also just a really pessimistic view of the value that women can bring to the table.
00:07:57.560So Erin thought here that I'd never really had before.
00:08:01.720Trans women often have hobby interests, and I'm not saying always, but often have hobby interests that are much more in line with men's hobby interests.
00:08:12.020So when I meet a woman in a heavily male-dominated genre of hobbies, like collecting guns or Warhammer or obscure video games or other ultra-nerdy pursuits, they are disproportionately trans women.
00:08:32.860If we're taking the perspective that trans women are actually women who were born into men's bodies, this seems incongruous with that perspective.
00:09:04.860I'm not the most pro-woman person out there.
00:09:10.860My problem is all the women friends that I like most are probably on the spectrum and thereby are kind of less female in many ways because they don't do a lot of the social games that I can't handle.
00:09:23.640And I find interacting with traditionally, like hormonally normal, neurotypical women, it's really stressful.
00:09:35.980So you have antagonism towards neurotypical women more broadly?
00:09:39.160Well, I think my problem is that I want to interact with people who speak plainly, who say what they feel and are straightforward about things.
00:09:51.720And with many neurotypical women that both you and I interact with, I feel like I cannot win because I don't speak their language.
00:10:01.000And they're playing a game and I'm not.
00:10:03.920And then somehow I'm insulting them by not playing this game.
00:10:34.700When you said that, I sort of viewed two realities.
00:10:37.480One, I viewed like the free radical problem, you know, sort of like a lot of like high testosterone, uncoupled men who are like, you know, just high risk, high rewards.
00:10:45.060It's just like sort of, you know, complete anarchy, violence, you know, just just a mess.
00:10:50.600Right. Like, I don't I don't like that.
00:10:52.140You know, I I don't really want the Bronze Age mindset reality of, you know, raiding and everything, which I guess is actually less fun when there are no women to have been pillaged.
00:11:01.920And then I view the other the other world, which is just like complete gay anarchy, just like orgies, like super hot men everywhere.
00:11:10.880And then I'm like, oh, OK, like gay world.
00:11:13.340This sounds really fun. Like, sign me up for that.
00:11:16.280I mean, presumably you'd be able to control people's sexuality in this world.
00:11:20.400Yeah. And I feel like a world full of gay men is a happier and more functional, lower drama world than a world full of gay men is a lower drama world.
00:11:31.680Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's drama, but it's not toxic drama as much, if you know what I mean.
00:11:38.200I know what you mean. I know what you mean. I just thought that was a funny statement. Come on.
00:11:44.400Something that came up in the Razeeb episode that we shared recently and we've talked about in a few episodes is the concept of the Tylaxio and Oxyodal tanks, right?
00:11:53.760Which is you wouldn't even need Oxyodal tanks. You could just replace women with artificial women.
00:11:57.340It's fine for our audience, Oxyodal tanks.
00:12:00.540It's essentially degraded. If you're looking at the original series and not the weird things his son wrote in the Dune universe, it's what happened to the females of the Tylaxio population.
00:12:10.860And not individual females. These are genetically engineered beings that are based on a female template that are meant to make artificial wombs easier to operate through connecting to their bloodstream and their original reproductive system.
00:12:26.140But they just use them to churn out lots of people. They don't have, you know, sentience or much consciousness.
00:12:32.240They're just sort of like blobs connected to tanks.
00:12:36.020Now, alternatively, the Tylaxio men are designed to look more like, I'd say, older children.
00:12:45.180So let's say people who are like 15 or something like that, kind of like elfish and a little impish.
00:12:50.800So the idea being is that if you have this much control over the future, like, and you're choosing an iteration of male that you are freezing us at, or an iteration of female, would you freeze us at young men?
00:13:03.460Or would you freeze us at old men? Because you talk about this, like, Bronze Age pervert world.
00:13:07.020Obviously, you're not going to get a Bronze Age pervert world if you have, like, a bunch of sociopathic, high IQ, 15-year-old men.
00:13:26.100Well, I mean, okay, I'll ask this question in a different way.
00:13:28.900What if we just got rid of sexuality altogether?
00:13:31.080Like, if you, would you, do you think, like, an iteration of humanity would be better if you bred them to not have any sexual drives at all?
00:13:40.360You know, I think sexuality really doesn't, and this sounds stupid to say now that I'm saying it, but doesn't play that huge of a role.
00:13:46.640I mean, I think it's sexual dimorphism that plays a bigger role in just sort of the day-to-day way that men and women react differently to scenarios.
00:13:53.960That women are reacting based on very different internal models, based on different, on average, tendencies than men.
00:14:02.400You know, obviously, sex drive is huge, especially for men with high levels of testosterone, less so for women on average.
00:14:10.580It shows up in different ways, of course.
00:14:12.220You know, more like dominant submission interest, which, of course, can also play into the politics that freak me out so much and make me less comfortable around women, right?
00:14:19.700But I think it's those issues and not necessarily sexuality, which is something that actually came up in our book a lot, that, like, in the end, so much of sex is not at all about sex.
00:14:32.680It's about how you're validating yourself.
00:14:34.480But the actual act itself is kind of...
00:14:37.700I agree with everything you're saying was one caveat.
00:14:41.720I think a lot of female behavior, even the stuff that's not just, like, born gendered, is heavily influenced by their capacity as gatekeepers of sexual access to the extent that it's not sex itself that is causing this.
00:14:57.740It's just the way that human females are born.
00:15:01.860Yeah, and them being gatekeepers of sexual access gives them, within open sexual marketplaces, or at least attractive women or women as a group, inordinate political power.
00:15:12.500I mean, I think that that's actually the big thing that women have used to their advantage within our existing political system.
00:15:17.500Only insofar as men have sex drives, and I think, actually, this is changing a lot.
00:15:22.200As we're sort of entering an age of more sexless men, and men who are just like, you know what, not going to care that much, women are losing a lot of that power, and that dynamic is changing.
00:15:32.500So I don't know if that is as true today, and certainly tomorrow, as it may have been 20, 30, 50 years ago.
00:15:42.480I also think that this is something worth pointing out from a male perspective as well.
00:15:46.560And I just want to talk about, like, how insane it is, because there are men who do this, who identify more with their gender than they identify with their cultural group, or children, or parents, or people, or country.
00:15:59.600Gender should be, like, such a low thing on the things you identify with.
00:16:03.500Now, I can understand why people identify with it, right?
00:16:07.160I think a core reason is, is we have, like, strong drives and strong cultural precedent when we're growing up, like, in our 20s, when we're determining who we are, what we think of ourselves, to find a partner.
00:16:21.560And the challenges that you face in finding a partner are going to be heavily, heavily, heavily gendered.
00:16:27.280And through that, you will communicate and engage heavily with communities that are going to be heavily gendered and primarily complaining about the opposite gender, which is going to cause this level of identification during many individuals' formative years.
00:16:42.540It's just, I think, important that people, like, approach this with some sanity.
00:16:47.080Like, yes, things may be unfair for your gender.
00:16:49.620I get that, you know, but at the end of the day, as my favorite movie that we use in every episode here at the beginning says, we're in this for the species, boys and girls.
00:17:02.000And this is what we talk about, the enemies of prenatalism, is that if you want to exist in the future, you've got to find a way to make it work with the other gender.
00:17:14.300And things are unfair now, but I think approaching everyone from the opposite gender as if they're, like, an alien species and totally heartless is really going to create problems.
00:17:25.040I am saying this as a complete hypocrite because I just sat here with a wife who already said, yeah, I think so much more like a guy than a girl that, like, actually girls scare me and I'm afraid to interact with them.
00:17:35.760I mean, I don't think that much like guys either.
00:18:21.420So I'm going to present you with a different idea here.
00:18:23.640I think if you took sexuality out of humanity, if you took gender out of humanity, a lot of motivation for, I think, many parts of humanity that people instill as the highest parts of humanity, like art and music and culture, would disappear.
00:18:38.600In fact, we often mention, I often mention the Futurama episode on robo-sexuality, which pointed out that when men could just date robots instead of women, the motivation for, you know, it was like art, music.
00:18:52.240And then it showed men not being able to date other men.
00:19:24.840That's what I'm, yes, that's what I'm talking about.
00:19:26.480By brain, useless knowledge of weapons I'll never know use.
00:19:32.340I'm glad you play as many video games as you do.
00:19:34.800Well, the funny, well, I don't know like bola from video games.
00:19:37.280It's not used that frequently, but I love that guys would be like, these are things that literally every human in the world knows what they are.
00:19:43.960Ebola and a flail. And yet I bet like 50% of women have no idea.
00:19:48.880I mean, I knew what it was. I didn't know its name, but I do feel like there's this tension and interplay between men and women.
00:19:55.480But, you know, you and I have the same philosophy about cultures.
00:19:58.120We really think that variation and competition and tension are incredibly useful.
00:20:03.260The disagreement is incredibly useful. The different mindsets are incredibly useful.
00:21:12.280And they have to like stay together until they finish.
00:21:15.340And they like have these like heat periods and stuff like that.
00:21:18.880And then like Omegas can like transform into an Alpha when they're around a Beta or transform into a Beta when they're around an Alpha.
00:21:25.900Depending on like what they're interested in in the moment.
00:21:28.840And it transforms the ways they relate sexually and like heat cycles and stuff like that.
00:21:33.720I strongly suggest if you're, if this sounds at all interesting to you, well, we can do another episode where I prep on it beforehand and remember actually all of this universe.
00:21:47.900Because that's really interesting as well.
00:21:49.360This is a world just for people who are interested.
00:21:51.980So there's these people who went and asked, okay, well, I think, you know, women seem to have this desire to be submissive in relationships.
00:22:02.560And males seem to be more likely have this desire to be dominant in relationships.
00:22:07.460And like a normal person would be like, okay, well, let's like try to craft like a new way to have like dominant men or something like that.
00:22:13.980They were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:22:15.720Let's just go back to the way we did this historically.
00:22:17.540And people would be like, oh, you mean like a traditional like taken in hand marriage?
00:22:21.980I mean like I want Conan the Barbarian World.
00:22:24.740Yeah, like a 1980s or 1970s sci-fi traditional.
00:22:28.360Yeah, where like they dance for men in their outfits and stuff like that as like part of like mating rituals and then do like bows and stuff.
00:22:38.320And there's all these rituals for how they interact because they wanted this world of submission, dominance, and tons of rituals.
00:22:45.000But they didn't remember enough of our historic rituals.
00:22:47.500So they just like borrowed them from this Conan like book series.
00:22:50.840Yeah, yeah, like basically this sci-fi series was the basis of what then became a weird, I guess you could say somewhat BDSM, but a lot more intense subculture, which pretty much has disappeared.
00:23:02.420But you can still find some like old forum archives.
00:23:05.480It was important in the days of the early internet.
00:23:08.100Yeah, and keep in mind, this is something that really like women got excited about.
00:23:13.520The people who are posting a lot are the women who are in these Gorian relationships who are enslaved to their master husbands.
00:23:21.720And I think, you know, ultimately the guys who were agreeing to this, probably like a decent percentage of them, maybe 60%, were probably a little put upon to have to do all this.
00:23:34.540Well, yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it was a lot of work.
00:23:37.520You'd have to like, you'd have to, you know, ritually like beat her up and, you know, like do the rituals and all this stuff and like know all the rules.
00:23:46.760And I think for a lot of guys, they're like, dude, I just, I just want you to be happy and I want you to love me.
00:23:51.980Whereas like when you're doing one of these like, like big time ritualized taken in hand BDSM complicated instructions kind of relationships.
00:24:00.080I don't think that's what most guys really want.
00:24:02.360I think most guys just want a supportive wife who loves them.
00:24:40.580And I think they're mostly for the submissive person.
00:24:43.660Like in the vast majority of cases, it seems that these relationships really are for the benefit of the submissive partner.
00:24:49.540Because really, it's all about kind of pleasing them and keeping them in line.
00:24:54.900And I feel bad for the dominant partners who are put upon.
00:24:58.060Yeah, I was looking at a 4chan post not long ago and some guy was like, you know, why do we even like do these things for our girlfriends when a girlfriend is just a B-I-T-C-H that we, you know, sex our ex at times and we sleep with.
00:25:13.960And a lot of young guys, I think they enter communities and they think that by saying things like this, they are signaling that they are like high status males.
00:25:51.420Does it make you look cool to say that?
00:25:53.100Like what I think when somebody says that is like, oh, so you're like a Gorian or something.
00:25:56.480Like you plan to have like a 24-7 like a taken in hand relationship where you're having to put up with all of these crazy rituals for this woman that you found because you convinced yourself that that's what you needed to do to be a dominant male.
00:26:11.920But I don't think the vast majority of those men in those relationships, any sort of like really heavy dominance relationship of this sort, of like the weird nerdy sorts, wanted to do it to be tough.
00:26:25.220I think they did it because a hot woman or a woman that was like of sufficiently competitive value to them really wanted it.
00:27:23.540I think if I look at the way that he structured relationships and stuff like that, he actually shows a lot of creativity.
00:27:29.460Like he has like an interesting poly relationship where like his brother and him share a group of girls that live in like a house together.
00:27:59.580Yeah, no, I think it is hard to engage any of these – and this is why I think they are all nerds, right?
00:28:06.280When you engage with a differential sexual subculture that's not just going along one of the traditional religious pathways, you are going to differentiate from mainstream society.
00:28:20.540And through differentiating from mainstream society, you will justly earn the title of nerd or weirdo or something like that.
00:28:27.360A really interesting thing that we can bring up in this video, we bring it up in our book.
00:28:30.360It's probably one of our most, I think, spiciest points, but we all don't really dig into this that much, is that these submission rituals that you see within these BDSM communities and stuff like that, very similar rituals sort of co-evolved in many religious communities.
00:28:47.900You know, whether you're talking about, you know, ultra-Orthodox Jewish Teflon, which just looks like – anyway, it's where they wrap tightly leather around their arms and stuff like that.
00:29:01.300Yeah, if you're not familiar with it as an outsider, you're like, whoa, is this a sex thing?
00:29:07.040Another one would be like the Catholic Opus Dei, like, whipping thing and stuff like that.
00:29:11.340And I don't think that any of this is because these cultures have been influenced by sexual cultures.
00:29:16.020I think it's that both represent extreme forms of submission, and that extreme forms of submission, whether they be to masturbate a feeling instinct or to show supplication to a genuine great power, are going to have some degree of co-evolution.
00:29:33.920But it just looks very odd as somebody who likes studying both communities and is separated from both communities to an extent.
00:30:13.940So I can work every day to try to make the world a better place or something like that, right?
00:30:18.340But I don't see immediate rewards for that.
00:30:21.060In fact, most of the world, you know, just hates me for it, right?
00:30:23.900Because anybody who's trying to change things is almost axiomatically undermining the existing power structure in the world, which is not in the best interest of those who are at the top rungs of that power structure.
00:30:34.380So they are going to attack me as evil.
00:31:52.680Yeah, so what I guess I'm saying and what I guess I'm realizing here is something about the desire to make you proud of the person I'm being day to day is sexual in nature.
00:33:02.160And I love some guys will be like, oh, that's such a beta thing to say that your wife influences you and that you care what she thinks of you.
00:33:08.060And it's like, you don't look tough saying that.
00:33:11.060Like, I understand in your little community, you might think that that's a status symbol, but in the real world, that doesn't look like a status symbol.
00:33:18.780It makes it look like you don't have anyone who cares about you, which is not the flex you might think it is.