Does America Need Indian's？ The H1B Visa Fight
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the H-1B visa debate, and why it s a bad idea. We talk about the pros and cons of both sides of the issue, and what we think about the current state of the debate.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. This is probably one of the most
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requested episodes we've ever had. But what are our thoughts on the current H-1B visa debate
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that's going on in the right right now? Now, just first, I need to categorize for people's brains
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which the H-1B visa actually is, because there was what we are told the H-1B visa is, and then there
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is what the H-1B visa actually is. So for people outside the United States, the H-1B visa is the
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idea that if you have special talents or you're uniquely skilled, companies can bring you over
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for immigration and sort of fast track your immigration process only if they can prove that
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they can't find an equivalent person in the United States. What the H-1B visa actually is, and this is
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going to shock you, Simone, is you know how the U.S. used to have like immigration thresholds for
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different countries where if you were of certain ethnicities, you could get sort of a free pass
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into the United States or a much easier pass into the United States than the existing ethnic mix of
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the United States. Right. The H-1B visa is basically that, but for Indian people. 73% of the people who
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get an H-1B visa are Indian. Whoa, wow. Okay, that's more than I thought. That's an insane amount if
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you're like looking at a global stage. It is, it is the, the, and this, this plays into a lot of
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resistance that some people have to it. So if you're just people like us and you're like, oh, the
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competent people, like, I don't care if we get a lot of competent immigrants in, and a lot of people are
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complaining, well, it's not just the competent immigrants. There's a lot of Indian nepotism causing
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people to come in. So I want to get to that aspect of the debate because I think that there is a level of
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nuance here. The second thing I'd like to say on all of this is I told you so. So, so many people when we were like, okay,
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believe me, Trump's administration is now the new right. That's who's staffing his offices. That's
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going to be the policy you're going to see coming out of it. When I talked about the new right, old
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right split and the J.D. Vance appointment, and it's sort of symbolizing Trump going in a new right
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direction. And I had pointed out many times, I was like, Trump is against low skilled immigrants.
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He is for high skilled immigrants on the all in podcast. He even went so far as to say, he'd give all
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people who've got a college degree in an America and automatic citizenship. Now, I think that's going too
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far, but I am okay if you do that for like the top two, three colleges, maybe now, because it's
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actually insane. We like train, have the best PhDs like in the world here. And we'll get people to
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go, like go to Stanford. Like I had a friend from Israel, right. Came over, started a company. It was
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doing well. And they kicked him out of the country. And I'm like, this company could have been like a
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billion dollar company. What percent of our unicorns are by immigrants? I think it's like 33% of the
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companies that ended up being over a billion dollars in valuation. Sorry, I was wrong here. It was 55%. So over half
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of US billion dollar valuation companies are founded by first generation immigrants.
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It's just stupid to kick out somebody with a Stanford MBA who's starting a company that's
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already funded. Like what, what is wrong with you people? So like broadly I'm, I'm proud of this,
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but, but the morning point here that was like, look, the new right is really in control of the ship
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now. And a lot of people thought I was blustering or that I was bluffing or that I was like, apparently
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no, like the H-1B visa, that is the most anti-MAGA thing you could have in terms of like the old MAGA,
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right. But it fits perfectly with the policy of the new right, which is just about efficiency and
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actually America first, like ensuring that we beat our enemies. But so if it works out well, okay. So
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now let's get into the, the actual battle here. Anything you want to say before I go further?
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No, keep going. I do have only one hesitation that hit me about H-1B visas after I read an
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Aporia article. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on their arguments, which I will run by you,
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but let's go over your arguments first. Oh, hold on. There's something we have to go over
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before any of this. The Andrean Ditterman fiasco. Is this a real person's name? Well,
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it's funny that you think it sounds like a made up name. So many people argue that a Twitter account
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called Andrean Ditterman is a fake account that Elon Musk is using as a sock puppet to support himself
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that has said things like, you're a great dad, Elon. And that has regularly tweeted like pro Elon
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things. Does this seem like the kind of person to do a sock puppet account? Yeah. The left is
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memeing about this. I learned about it from like an advice animals meme. Unfortunately, from a drama
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perspective, it's almost certainly not true. One is common sense. If, as Simone said, it's just out of
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character for him. If you like follow him in any form of a generous fashion, um, or yeah, he,
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can I say he wouldn't do something like that? It just doesn't come off like him. He's sort of like
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a nerdy dad type. He's not like a desperate for affirmation. In fact, he does a lot of things that
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are very like going to get him public hate. He more likes shit storming than affirmation.
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Like he's a, he's a troll for, for trolling sake in a big way. I think, I think he likes attention
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just like any person typically, but he's not, it takes a very specific type of person to do the
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sock puppeting thing. He doesn't care about positive attention, I guess I'd say. Yeah. Well, and he,
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like the kind of person who is capable of, who would turn to a sock puppet puppet for affirmation
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is also the kind of person who doesn't hold themselves to that high of a standard.
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There are some people who are too proud who would actually want real praise. Like they may pander to
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praise. They would never use themselves to do that because it needs to be real. Like the, the lack of
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honor in fake praise from a sock puppet account that you yourself created would be so humiliating
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to yourself and your own internal narrative that like you would never do it. But it also makes no sense.
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This, this account had 20,000 followers or whatever year ago. Now it's at like a hundred thousand
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followers. Elon's, Elon's tweets get like tens of millions of views. Like that he would try to
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praise himself. And in terms of responses, I would guess the average Elon tweet gets probably,
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what do you think? 200,000 responses? Like a single response among those would not be enough to matter.
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Like even on videos as small as ours, we have already reached a size where it wouldn't make
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sense for me to create a sock puppet because the sock puppet would just like be drowned out by all
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the legitimate comments and praise. Elon has enough obsequious fanboys that he doesn't need a sock
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puppet, but also there's hard evidence that it's not Elon, which a lot of people haven't done digging.
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And so here I'm going to read from a piece by Ketrick Pratap.
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According to Alistair McPlein, he participated in a Twitter spaces event and heard the voice of
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Adrian Ditterman, which sounded like Elon Musk's voice modified modulation software. Yeah.
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But he goes on to say, last year, I joined some of Adrian Ditterman's Twitter spaces where he was
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encouraging people to jump on Elon Musk tweets as soon as they were posted to boost reach and
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engagement. So unfortunately here we basically have before he, and then he goes,
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And it was clear that Adrian is not Elon Musk, but that he often made deliberate slips in his
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conversation to spark controversy and grab attention. These slips seem designed to make
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people think he's Musk, but no real evidence to support the claim. And there's also evidence
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that Adrian and Elon have been in the same spaces several times, but they're not the same person.
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A year ago, Adrian had 20K followers and he was actively encouraging his audience to engage with
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his posts and try to get Musk into his live rooms. If you really believe Adrian is Elon,
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you're probably not looking closely enough at the facts. The whole idea that they're the same
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person falls apart as soon as you take a deeper look. So basically it would only appear that Adrian
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was Elon if you look at his tweets from the last year. If you look at his tweets or live rooms from
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before that, he was constantly begging to try to get Elon to retweet him or to dip into his live
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rooms, which is not something Elon pretending to be Elon would do, especially further back in the
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ruse. He wouldn't get worse at the ruse as time went on. He'd get better at the ruse as time went
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on, right? One would expect, unless one becomes increasingly unhinged, like some sock puppeteers
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have. Right. But to me, Elon wouldn't do that. If he was going to create a sock puppet, he wouldn't
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also create a back trail where he has rooms where the sock puppet is pathetically begging to try to get
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people to get Elon to retweet him. Yeah. This sounds like just a fan of Elon Musk. So what's the point?
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What does this fan have to do with H1B? It is widely believed on the left that this fan is actually
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Elon Musk and it's dumb as hell. Like it goes to show like just how far the left will delude themselves
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to believe anything that fits their narrative. And if you're only consuming media from left-winging
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spaces, you may have assumed that there was actual evidence that this guy is Elon instead of
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evidence to the direct contrary. And, and when they're like, no, here's proof. He uses similar
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language. Yeah. But somebody who realized they could get followers by pretending to be Elon would
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use similar language. Oh, he always supports Elon. Yeah. Somebody who's trying to pretend to be an
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Elon sock puppet would always support Elon. And I note here, if you want to do a little bit of digging
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on this, all of the evidence that Adrian Ditterman is an Elon sock puppet comes from things that have
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been posted by Adrian Ditterman, not things that have been posted by Elon. So people are like,
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oh, sometimes he, he messes up and speaks in the first person. Yes. If somebody was trying to
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convince you they were Elon, they would do that. Sometimes he uses language or wording similar to
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Elon. Yes. If somebody was trying to convince you, he was Elon, he would do that. Like the inability to
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use common sense on the left is just beyond me at this point. You would need evidence from the other
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side, the harder to fake side, the side without benefit to faking side. If you're going to make this
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claim of which they have literally none, like, how can you not see this? There's no motivation for
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someone to pretend to be an Elon sock puppet. Oh yes. That's exactly the sort of thing a crazy
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unhinged person on the internet would do. Right. So anyway, back to the topic at hand here. So who's
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on each side, Elon, obviously one of the key champions on the H1B program. If so is Vivek Ramaswamy
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and Donald Trump, Donald Trump has recently, it said, quote unquote, he always liked the visas.
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If you're running companies, you know, you're always going to be handling this. So one side of
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the battlefield, you've got Elon, you've got Vivek and you've got Donald Trump. So if you're not
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familiar with Elon and Vivek, they are both entrepreneurs. They are both people who have
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run companies. They are not like generic populace playing to racial anxieties, like some of wave one
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Mago. Elon Musk is an immigrant from South Africa. So. Right. I think he came over on an H1BV. I
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wouldn't be surprised. I don't know. He came via Canada because he first went to university in
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Canada. So I don't know the whole process, but then, yeah, he went to university in the U.S. too.
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So I'm not sure exactly what the immigration status was, but for sure. I mean, he is a highly
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skilled person who immigrated to the United States and significantly contributed to the United States
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well-being. So, you know. And then on the anti side, you have Laura Loomer and Steve Bannon.
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Right. Like these are. Yes. Who have done such great things for her. Right. No, but these aren't,
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you know, Steve Bannon might be like technically a business person, but he is first and foremost,
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like a populist messenger. Right. And, you know, he is not somebody who's had to build
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giant companies like Vivek or Elon have built or who's regularly having to hire top engineering
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talent and would understand why this is necessary. Now, for the accusations that you see a lot on the
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comments around this is this is just being used by Indians to hire other Indians. There is evidence
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for this in terms of lawsuits. So cognizant, a U.S. jury found cognizant employment practices
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constituted discriminatory conduct towards non-Indian workers.
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And they're using the HPV process. So so here's the problem. Right. You can look at an entire
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company that's doing this. Would you be able to catch a department at Microsoft that was doing
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this? Would you be able to catch a department at Google that was doing this? No. And that's what
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people are saying is happening. Right. So we know that this is happening when Indians are
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running companies. Like, is it happening when they're running departments? And when you consider
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the number of Fortune 500 companies in the U.S. that are run by Indians, which is hugely
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disproportionate, I can see why tech workers would be stressing about this.
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Then there was the Tata Consultancy Services in the United States. So they fired Americans on
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short notice and replaced them with Indian workers on H-1B visas. And they were sued for illegal
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discrimination here. Then you have Infosys. Paid a record $34 million to settle allegations about
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this, just for the scale of the fraud here. Circumvading H-1B visa requirements to unlawfully
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using B-1 visa holders to perform skilled labor. Violating U.S. immigration laws to increase profits
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and an unfair advantage of our competitors. And yeah. So that's the gist of the information here.
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Yeah. Now that you've heard, what was it that you read that gave you a thought on this?
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Yeah. So before reading this article, I was like, categorically, we benefit from bringing in more
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skilled immigration. Why? One, we need, from a demographic collapse standpoint, more high taxpayers.
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So people who are coming in and making a lot of money are going to hold up the social services for
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those less fortunate. And we really need that. We really need people to come in and pay for things.
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So there's that. And in general, it seems like a good idea to bring in talent and keep the talent
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that we invest money in through our universities to educate, right? If we have the good schools,
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shouldn't we keep the good talent that we help to cultivate? So then I read Aporia's article
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titled, Increasing Skilled Immigration is a Mistake. The gist of the article is that they argue that
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large portion of skilled immigration is Asian and that Asian immigrants are far more likely to
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undermine the underpinnings that make America successful, like freedom of speech and small
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government. So the arguments that they make are that, for example, and here I'm quoting from the
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article, Asian Americans are an extremely left-wing group, so much so that despite their economic success,
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Asians are much more pro-government intervention than whites and are closer to blacks or Hispanics,
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you have much more to gain from redistribution. For instance, a supermajority of Asians, 66%,
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believe that the government should do more to solve problems compared to only 44% of whites.
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Similarly, a supermajority, 70% of Asians say government regulation is necessary to protect the
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public interest compared to only 53% of whites. And then when asked explicitly, Asians are much more
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pro-socialist. 49% have a positive impression of socialism compared to only 31% of whites.
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They also argue that Asians are 12 points more likely than whites to favor censorship. And while
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it's impossible to say that this would be super powerful immediately in changing the shape of the
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United States, if we have significant immigration from specifically Asian cultures, it could shift the
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culture of the United States if there isn't really strong assimilation. They also point out that the
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United States, in comparison with, we'll say, non-U.S. Anglosphere countries, which have had much more
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open to high-skilled immigration policies historically, they note that, quote, the comparison with the
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non-U.S. Anglosphere is particularly instructive because these countries are very similar to the United
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States culturally, genetically, and institutionally. Britain, Australia, and Canada have all grown more
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slowly than the United States since the 2008 financial crisis. And all three have embraced a policy of
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enormous amounts, far more per capita than the United States, of skilled legal immigration, particularly
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from China and South Asia. All three have been relatively stagnant personal incomes and skyrocketing
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housing prices. One might object on the grounds that immigration to Canada, Australia, and Britain isn't
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really skilled, but this is what skilled immigration looks like when refracted through government
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bureaucracies. We should treat these countries as a cautionary tale. We would very easily end up in
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their shoes. And then I would add to that that after reading this article, I hear news about how
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Canada is undergoing an intense housing pricing crisis, and the government is kind of in turmoil now
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because no one can afford housing. And what happened was, especially when it came to people being able to
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get work permits and better immigration status by attending some kind of university in Canada,
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that basically diploma mills started rolling out diplomas to immigrants who then got to stay in
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Canada and who have just kind of messed up the job market and they've messed up the housing market.
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And while Americans largely agree that immigrants are taking jobs that Americans don't want,
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I would also argue that Americans are going to have to start taking jobs that Americans don't want
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because the jobs they do want are disappearing because of AI. So these are my general hesitations. I think
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there are ways to navigate around that. I'm going to push back really hard on this particular
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hesitation. So I think if they, and I like Aporia, but I think that they do have certain biases
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around certain HBD stuff. And I think that if they wanted to convince me, they would have run the
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statistics by South Asian immigrants because that's who's using the H-1B visa and the political
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opinions of, am I surprised that, you know, like Chinese or like Japanese or Korean people might
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be majority Democrat? Yeah. I mean, like a lot of my, even like a lot of smart Asians I know are like
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Democrat, like weirdly. And I'm like, but you, you see, there's the bad guys. And they're like,
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yeah, but you know, whatever the system. I have not seen the same with my South Asian friends.
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Indians, in fact, and I have argued this in a previous episode,
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might end up being the core of the leadership of a future Republican party in this country.
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And we're already seeing this was the new right, whether it's for Beck or Chamath or like that,
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they, they just come off as much better aligned with the right than, I mean, we even see this in
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the influencer space, even in like the HBD, like even in their own influencer space, you've got like
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Razeeb Khan, you got, you know, I just, I don't know if I, and I will look up afterwards for
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statistics on this after the show. So Indians of the voting bloc have been moving rapidly to the
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right recently. In 2020, 56% of American Indians identified as Democrats. Well, in 2024, this number
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had dropped to 47%. However, one poll found that 61% intended to vote for Kamala, while only 32%
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intended to vote for Trump. But I actually expect that the right is going to pick up a lot of
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Indians. And it just seems pretty natural to me, given that they're pretty based on a lot of this,
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there's ethnic differences between people's stuff. And we want to protect the country.
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Yeah. Even when it comes to like CRISPR human editing there, there are.
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Oh yeah. They are the most pro-genetically editing humans culture. They're the only culture
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where the majority of people are like, yeah, it's like 80% or something like in India,
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but there's the secondary effect here, which I want to consider, which is a lot of people are
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like, yeah, but what about the nepotism networks? And I'm like, look, the nepotism networks are real,
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but then you also have the cultural differences issue. And as we point out, there are cultural
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differences between people. It's just, yeah. And maybe, maybe ethnic differences as well. I mean,
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what's the point of diversity if we're not different, right? And India as a culture creates,
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now the first thing I'd note is we are draining India right now. So if you look at the Indians
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who come to America, they are disproportionately Brahmin caste, which is the vast minority of
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Indians in India. To be more specific, 80% of Hindi Indian Americans identify with one of the upper
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castes. And of those who are Brahmins specifically, 25% of American immigrants are Brahmins. This contrast
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was them making up just 5% of India's population. And these are people who are genetically quite
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distant from the other castes in India, to the extent where, Foria did a good piece on this,
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there is as much difference between a Brahmin and like another caste in India, as there is between
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somebody in Northern Germany and Greece in Europe. And if you know the difference between the German
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people and the Greek people, it is severe. You could not just replace a German person with a Greek
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person and average. And, you know, I just say there's a reason there's not a lot of heavy
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manufacturing in Greece. Now, the point here being is that we are getting a cream of the crop from India
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that has been selected as the cream of the crop over like literally their entire history of this caste
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system, where they had this like intellectual caste, which is who the Brahmins are. So we're not,
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we're one, not getting normal quote unquote Indians. We are getting elite Indians, which are
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more genetically distant from normals than people from other countries would be, is going to be
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very damaging to India's future prospects. And then when it's not just that, we also get like the
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other like elite Indian groups at higher rates, like the Jayans and the Indian Christians and the,
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right. India has had Christians for like ever. If you didn't know this.
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Yeah. India, India has had a Christians, I think from within like 300 years of Christ's life,
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Which obviously leads to like a, a differentiated genetically community because they're basically
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considered religious weirdos for a long time. Right. You know, like the same way the Jayans would
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be, or in the same way the, the Parsi would be who we often talk about, who we also disproportionately
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would get as immigrants. I don't think we get disproportionate Parsis actually,
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because they have to weird live in weird like housing stuff. But anyway, and I'm assuming
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we get a disproportionate number of Jayans immigrants given the number of Jayans I know
00:22:21.420
versus a percent of the Indian population. So in all these groups that we're mentioning
00:22:24.980
are groups that do disproportionately economically well in India. So we are draining India of
1.00
00:22:28.860
its talent. They're coming to the US. Many of them aren't having kids. You know, it's not
00:22:33.640
like they're going to replace us or anything, you know, it's just a drain on a global economic
00:22:41.500
talent for some minor economic benefit to the United States, which, you know, being a pro
00:22:48.200
American nationalist, I'm pro that it would be cool if we could create self-sustaining Indian
00:22:52.520
communities here. But like, who knows if that's a possibility. A note here, Indians have a fertility
0.98
00:22:57.180
rate of 1.47 children per woman as of 2022. So well below the American average and well below
00:23:05.500
replacement rate. But then it's the cultural differences between this group of Indians,
00:23:11.060
the group I've seen in the United States and other people, is when people tell me like,
00:23:14.920
can you believe this portion of Fortune 500 companies are run by Indians? Can you believe
1.00
00:23:19.380
that what is it now? It's Google is run by an Indian. Microsoft is run by an Indian. IBM is run
0.94
00:23:24.200
by an Indian. Adobe is run by an Indian. YouTube is run by an Indian. Like all of them are run
1.00
00:23:29.140
by Indians now. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Like, I mean, in the tech space,
00:23:33.960
there's just a really heavy Indian representation. Yeah. And it's that I would say that Indians have
00:23:39.960
a unique talent, like the cultural differences that are represented in this group of Indians that
00:23:45.820
we are getting as H1 and Lisa holders, as they're sort of like a perfect culture for engaging with
00:23:53.700
and out-competing within large bureaucracies. They are just hyper good at it. And like, I also kind
00:24:00.800
of get it. Okay. Simone, for example, obviously we've never done this form of discrimination.
00:24:05.620
The vast majority of people who work for us are Latin American. That's the culture we work most with.
00:24:09.900
But let's just say you had a technology company, right? And it was a big one. Lots of people were
00:24:14.740
working at it. And you had to choose. Are you trying to get a suit? Okay, I won't say this. I'm just saying
00:24:22.940
that, like, the point is, is, is, is that Indian culture leads to them questioning orders less or trying
0.93
00:24:30.440
their own ideas without your approval less in ways that can lead to things falling apart. They are less
00:24:37.560
likely to, as, as I've seen, waste time on personal recreation in the office and stuff like that.
00:24:44.000
They, well, no, it's just like, I get why when Elon's like, look, I cannot find competent lead
00:24:50.580
engineers trained in the United States. And I'm looking to India for that from a cultural perspective.
00:24:56.660
I sort of get where he's coming from. If you're looking for steady iterative improvement without
00:25:02.220
risk of, like, a controversy or without risk of, keep in mind, how, how frequently do you hear of
00:25:08.740
some, like, Indian head of a company, right, getting in trouble for a hooker party or harassing one of
00:25:15.400
his staff or sleeping with an underage intern or, like, never, like, well, not never, like,
00:25:23.360
obviously it happens, but I'm just saying. Well, can you, can you think of a single example of
00:25:27.660
one happening, though? To one of that happening? No. I can't either. Whoops. Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:25:36.260
Whoops. Right. Like, this creates a problem, right? But I would say, so in response to the
00:25:40.640
Eporia article, you're just arguing that basically they are fudging with the samples here, basically
00:25:47.340
trying to fob off East Asians as, like, South Asians as well, and that really most of the H1B visa,
00:25:55.080
like, the evidence you already have, like, you stated that the 70-something percent number
00:26:00.040
being South Asians. Yeah. And it's just a different group. So you can't just be like, well, Asians
00:26:07.100
are generally more in favor of big government and socialism and censorship when, in the end,
00:26:12.300
you need to, like, if we're really going to have this conversation, we need to pull specific numbers
00:26:17.120
about South Asians. Yes. And this nullifies their argument.
00:26:21.200
Note here, it doesn't nullify their argument, as I made a point in the ad earlier, is that they are
00:26:28.980
right, and the majority of South Asians are voting Democratic even still. While they are moving to the
0.99
00:26:35.400
right, if we were trying to just bring in people who we felt would vote for our side, then we should
00:26:40.960
stop bringing in South Asians. I think that ultimately, with these groups, we're just causing
1.00
00:26:46.980
more harm to ourselves by putting in immigration bans. Anything that hurts our AI companies right
00:26:54.000
now, or our space travel companies right now, our drone companies, these are the things that are going
00:26:59.220
to lead us to have global hegemi in the future. The people who win these particular battles now
0.99
00:27:03.940
are going to win the game. I mean, after World War II, we took a bunch of Nazi engineers to, you know,
0.80
00:27:09.500
build the space program and a lot of the technology that our world runs off of right now,
00:27:13.780
and that helped make us so rich, and people could say, like, yeah, but they, you know, had all these
00:27:18.240
bad views, and they had all these bad politics, and I'm like, yeah, but they were damn good engineers.
00:27:24.120
The AI race right now is the Manhattan project of our era, and the country who wins it basically
0.75
00:27:30.760
wins the civilizational game as far as any good predictive powers we have right now. It makes sense
00:27:37.860
that we're doing whatever we can to get cheap, high-quality talent, even if it comes at a cost,
00:27:48.080
Note here, if you talk about them, like, destroying American culture or something like that,
0.96
00:27:52.660
Indians are the least destructive, like, even less than the Jews. I'm like, the Jews don't try to
1.00
00:28:00.040
convert you. Like, why are you messing with them? They're not trying to, like, influence you with
00:28:03.760
their culture, but they often end up running, like, big media stuff and things like that. It
00:28:08.080
intrinsically leads their culture to trip to go down into society, and they often end up being,
00:28:12.780
like, well-known intellectuals who people listen to. Indians, it's almost the opposite. Like,
1.00
00:28:17.900
your kids are not at risk of being converted into, like, Hindu or Sikh or any of those cultures
00:28:26.780
coming out of India. There's for sure no evangelization that I see happening. There's
00:28:34.700
also very little exclusion. Most of the big Indian weddings that I've been seeing friends posting
00:28:41.300
photos of, for example, are mixed between, you know, one American and one Indian.
00:28:48.420
Well, in our neighborhood, people might not know this, but for where we live in, like, rural U.S.,
00:28:53.600
and this is something that a lot of people who grew up in cities don't know, is this is my read.
00:28:58.460
I don't know if it's true, but it's my read, is that Indians actually primarily do not immigrate
00:29:02.920
to inner-city America in the same way a lot of other immigrants do. When people are like,
0.99
00:29:06.180
oh, I live in an inner city, so I'm in such a diverse area. I'm like, well, I mean, only a few
00:29:10.560
ethnicities actually tolerate American inner cities. And many pretty much exclusively immigrate to
00:29:16.120
American suburbs and exurbs. Indians and South Asians are one of the groups that pretty much
00:29:20.240
primarily immigrates to exurbs. And so our town that we live in is majority for our age
00:29:27.620
area is South Asian. And they're either Indian or Pakistani, I haven't asked yet, because you
00:29:32.200
don't want to get that one wrong. And I can't tell the difference.
00:29:36.840
Well, wouldn't, if they were, if there were more Pakistani, we would probably see more
1.00
00:29:41.000
Islamic-style failing among women, and we do not.
1.00
00:29:44.620
Oh yeah, we've seen absolutely none of that. Yeah, they must be.
00:29:46.420
I would say that they're primarily Indian, if I had to guess.
00:29:51.840
Yeah. But when we moved here, we considered that like a huge bonus.
00:29:56.380
Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. We can get the Indian grocery store that is literally walking distance
00:30:03.000
from our house, where we can get like directly imported spices and foods. Oh yeah.
00:30:09.320
Oh yeah. And all these Indian, oh, we use them in cooking all the time. I love it.
00:30:12.500
But, but it's not just that. We need to make sag paneer soon.
00:30:16.820
It's not just that. It's that culturally speaking, if I'm like, how do I know that my kids are
00:30:23.960
going to grow up safe? If they're hanging out with a bunch of Indian friends, I'm not worried
1.00
00:30:31.320
Yeah. This morning, you were on this big kick of like, oh my God, like what if our children's
00:30:35.860
best friends come out as Therians? And then what are we going to do? And yeah, well,
0.99
00:30:39.880
their daughter comes out as a Therian. That's somebody who thinks that they're an animal
00:30:46.140
technically, like a trans person thinks they're the other gender. That, that first generation
1.00
00:30:49.860
Indian parent is going to be like, what the fuck are you talking about? You're not a cat.
1.00
00:30:54.100
Like grow up and study. But what I'm saying is, is like culturally speaking, am I afraid
00:31:01.080
of them like tainting the United States in some way? Like, absolutely not. In fact, I feel
00:31:06.600
much safer with my kids. Like if they brought home, let's, let's put it this way. If they
00:31:12.760
brought home like white friends, right. I'd be like, and they're like, oh, I want to go
1.00
00:31:16.660
to their house. I'm like, I actually need to like investigate the parents.
00:31:19.000
Yeah. We, we need to, we need to check them out. We need to call their parents, maybe visit
00:31:23.440
with them the first time. Yeah. Make sure they're not going to be, you know, trying to
00:31:28.760
and not indoctrinate my kid was like ridiculous ideas. If, if this kid is, is, you know, obviously
00:31:35.460
like second generation, like their parents are first generation Indians. I'm not, I'm not
1.00
00:31:39.180
vetting that. I'm like, yeah, fuck go. I am no risk of them picking up bad habits from
1.00
00:31:46.920
Well, you're just going to want the parents to like you. We'd probably send them over
00:31:49.540
with eggs from our coop or something like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd be nice about it,
00:31:53.580
but like what I'm saying is I wouldn't have any fears at all. And that might be, I mean,
00:31:59.700
this is the thing, like they say that, like, I guess that's a racist position for me to be
00:32:03.620
like, look, if they look like their first generation immigrants from India, I'm pretty
1.00
00:32:07.060
sure they're not woke or insane like that. A lot of people would be like, that's a really
00:32:10.840
offensive, but it's fucking true. Especially if they're in an Indian community, like the
1.00
00:32:15.340
community in our neighborhood. So then I guess I'm just not afraid of the cultural damage
00:32:24.000
that could be done by these groups. I am okay with the ones who want to keep their culture.
00:32:28.480
I'm okay with the ones who want to join our culture. Like what, either way, it's fine.
00:32:33.940
It's not like a destructive culture. And there are cultures I think that are destructive, right?
00:32:39.900
But just the Indian Brahmins who are coming over, it's not a culture that like I'd be particularly
0.99
00:32:45.940
worried about damaging the United States. Now people will be like, what, you really have no
00:32:51.060
problem with the fact that 73% of people coming in the H-1B visa are Indian, approximately 13% are
00:32:57.140
Chinese. But when you look at, you know, countries like Canada, it's 1%. If you look at the United
00:33:02.660
Kingdom, it's 0.5 to 6%. France, 0.4%. Germany, 0.3%. Italy, 0.3%. Spain, 0.3%.
00:33:09.660
Like, don't you want more German immigrants? Don't you want more Canadian immigrants?
00:33:14.520
And here I'm like, well, I mean, so there's sort of two factors here, right? Like, is there a threat
00:33:19.600
that we're bringing in a bunch of people who are going to replace us? No, because Indians and Chinese
1.00
00:33:24.180
have a much lower birth rate than native-born Americans. So we're bringing in a population
00:33:28.660
we're essentially memetically burning off within a generation or two. But then two, I think people
00:33:34.540
have in their heads that Germans are, I don't know, like, like something that they aren't. Germans
00:33:40.860
and Canadians are like infected with the woke mind virus much more than people in the United States.
0.99
00:33:47.240
Look at what they've done to their own countries. Do we want to be importing them into our country?
1.00
00:33:52.280
Like, Indians are fairly based from most of the interactions I have with them. Germans,
00:33:59.960
on the other hand? Canadians, on the other hand? Like, I think that people have this perception
00:34:06.280
that they're importing, like, it's like we're in a zombie plague right now.
00:34:11.280
Ah! I told you this new one's terrible! There's no cure!
00:34:15.900
Oh, not Sophie, man, not Sophie! We can't kill Sophie!
00:34:18.660
We must check our privilege to dismantle the heteronormative, patriarchy, systemic pattern
00:34:24.880
Now, with this mind virus, and we're in this fortification, and we've been letting in survivors,
1.00
00:34:31.240
and then the guy next to me is like, hey, not enough of the survivors are white, and you
00:34:36.120
know, white's gotta stick with white, so can we let some of those guys in? And I'm like,
0.95
00:34:40.440
those guys are clearly zombies. I understand they're white, but the walk, the groaning,
1.00
00:34:47.660
the I eat brains. Can we maybe, like, forget about ethnocentrism for a minute here, and
0.55
00:34:55.000
just admit that, like, Germany and Canada are already lost?
00:34:59.460
And I'd also point out here that more Indians are coming in on this program, and more Chinese
00:35:28.680
people are coming in on this program because they're applying to companies in the US to
00:35:33.080
move here, and these companies are hiring them to move here at a rate much higher than
00:35:38.960
Germans or British people are doing that. It's not like the system itself is rigged outside
00:35:45.680
of the esno-nepotism that exists among Indians and Chinese, right?
1.00
00:35:51.680
The problem that I, and pretty much the entire new right, has with unchecked immigration is that
1.00
00:35:58.520
these people are coming in, and they are not contributing tax dollars. They are not contributing
00:36:03.480
to our economy. The government's giving them free, you know, money, basically, and it's just
00:36:10.300
unsustainable. You cannot have, as I've mentioned many times, a country cannot survive with both
00:36:16.000
porous borders and substantial social services, because if you have both, then you are going to
00:36:21.720
disproportionately attract the people who want to live off of those social services, which are the
0.83
00:36:25.820
least productive people, until you can no longer afford to offer those services, because they just
00:36:30.660
keep coming in until the, like, osmosis, basically.
00:36:33.440
Now, here's my question for you, because this is where I do have some consternation.
00:36:38.320
What about the Indian manager at Google who's just hiring all Indians? Do we need to have, like,
1.00
00:36:49.900
I, this is hard, because cultural fit and also team cohesion, it just works better when people
00:36:58.360
are on the same level with culture, you know, that it's going to work better together.
00:37:04.380
Oh, God, but now I'm talking about segregation. But if I, if I want a team to work together optimally,
00:37:10.620
I'm not going to, I can't, imposing affirmative action on someone is going, it's going to compromise
00:37:17.900
the potential efficiency of their team. And if they want to be able to work seamlessly with people
00:37:23.340
and not have to spend a ton of time on communication and handholding and making sure everyone's on the
00:37:27.520
same page, hiring people, and this is, this is for exactly the same reason why we're so in favor of
00:37:33.220
people hiring their cousins or childhood friends at our own business or siblings.
00:37:37.300
Yeah, that's what we do at our business. We're a majority Latin American business that we operate.
00:37:41.200
And a bunch of our newest hires have been existing team members, siblings, cousins,
00:37:46.860
extended family, et cetera. And that is because they work seamlessly together. And there isn't this
00:37:54.440
And there isn't a fight over stuff. So like, if you're talking about sales commissions and stuff
00:37:58.140
like that, if everyone's related to each other, then they don't care because they're all sending
00:38:02.180
Yeah, it's, it's just, it's, it's a different thing. So I, I don't, one, I don't like intervention
00:38:10.220
in any case, you know, sort of what you would say, what you would say is that the problem here
00:38:15.700
isn't that the Indians are being ethnically selective in their hiring practices. It's that
00:38:20.660
whites should be more ethnically selective in their hiring practices to even it out.
00:38:24.820
Because, no, because I think that in many cases, like we, for example, don't hire whites ever,
0.90
00:38:34.780
really. I mean, not on purpose, not on purpose.
00:38:37.060
Well, I guess you could say like, like European people of like direct European descent, just so
00:38:42.540
many people that are like Latin America or like Italians, you know, like from, they're from Europe.
00:38:46.640
I just like, it's weird saying whites, but yeah, just like people from like, we, we, we're not hiring
0.99
00:38:51.560
people who are culturally similar to us in many cases for our own companies, because we don't
00:38:56.040
think that people who are culturally similar to us, or maybe like the best people to do specific
00:39:00.680
roles that we're hiring for. I think we just have to be, I don't know. Can we just do a, don't be a
00:39:07.180
dick about it rule, you know, like be reasonable. Don't, don't be crazy and make your own way.
0.98
00:39:14.460
Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know if you can, I, I, I get it. It's group, like it's screwed up that a
00:39:22.060
bunch of, well, but here's the thing is, is I imagine what happened was a lot of these white
0.87
00:39:26.320
people who are laid off. And then a bunch of Indian H1B visa people were hired was because the
00:39:31.220
white people just cost a lot less. When you have companies that are meant to maximize shareholder
0.81
00:39:35.720
value. Well, Oh, can you be so angry that they're trying to maximize shareholder value by getting rid of
00:39:41.720
more expensive people? I just feel like letting market forces play out is something you have to
00:39:47.720
do if companies are designed to maximize shareholder value. And if you have such a big problem with that,
00:39:53.620
well, maybe you don't build your entire society around that. Well, but I disagree. I genuinely do
00:39:59.820
think that there is racism in how some Indians hire, I think, especially in the tech industry. And I
00:40:06.060
understand why some people are mad about this. Well, I mean, but, but racism, or is it comfort
00:40:11.860
working with people like you? That's racism. Simone, you're saying like, is it racism that X,
00:40:18.800
X person never hires any black people or comfort in working with people like him? Like that's racism.
00:40:25.000
Okay. Call it what you want, but discomfort with people of different ethnic groups is racism.
00:40:30.820
Now I, I, what you're arguing is that maybe it doesn't need to be malicious, but it is malicious
00:40:36.460
if it's leading to differential hiring practices. If it was a white person, not hiring non-white people,
00:40:42.360
you would see this as... I know. I just, I really don't like the idea of telling people how to run
00:40:49.220
their businesses. Yeah. This is where I'd say, I'd say... I would hate the idea of, of someone being like,
00:40:56.480
you've been hiring too many non-American people for your company, Simone and Mel.
00:41:02.780
No, I agree. We would get in so much trouble. If you could get in trouble for hiring too many
00:41:06.740
gay people or Latin Americans, our company would be in so much shit. People would be like, you have a,
1.00
00:41:11.460
you have a really weird number of gay Latin Americans at your company. And I'm like, well,
1.00
00:41:16.340
we're a travel agency. They're good at this. Um, and they're like, that sounds like a stereotype.
00:41:21.540
I'm like, because it's fucking true. You knob like there that there's a reason. But what I would say,
0.88
00:41:28.240
Simone, it is my sort of summary on this. If you were wondering, like, what's my, I get the
00:41:34.420
concern. I am not saying that this is an issue where it's black and white and there's no concerns.
00:41:41.060
But if I was going to come down on a, would I want America cutting back on or restricting H1B visas?
00:41:47.400
No, I think that will hurt us economically. I think that hurts us from a national
00:41:51.420
security perspective. I think that hurts us geopolitically. I think that that makes our
00:41:55.780
country weaker. Like across the board, there are negatives to H1B visas. Yeah. In the face of
1.00
00:42:02.960
demographic collapse, beggars can't be choosers too. Yeah. On the net, it's a benefit. And because
1.00
00:42:11.020
it's a benefit on the net, I'm okay with it. Yeah. And I am actually really glad to see that it
00:42:18.620
looks like Trump administration is moving in this direction. Yeah. And we told you guys like before
00:42:23.200
the election and people were like, Oh, like, are these guys really like the number one, like new
00:42:27.780
right podcasters? I think we kind of are. Uh, maybe, maybe all in is, is it would be considered
00:42:33.460
like solidly new, right? And very, yeah. And they're very big, but you're the biggest new right
00:42:38.780
female, which I always point out to her. You are literally the biggest new right female talking
1.00
00:42:43.200
head. And we told you guys before this election, we're like new right is for skilled immigration,
00:42:48.860
like unmitigatedly for skilled immigration. And I think a lot of people, they thought maybe
00:42:55.280
like this wouldn't end up in policy or like we were bluffing or like we're, we're shitting you.
0.92
00:43:00.720
And I'm like, no, like this is, this is what we believe. Also the funny, the, one of the guys
00:43:05.320
who were friends with at the heritage foundation who wrote a lot of the, the spooky stuff that scared
00:43:09.860
progressives about the like birth control and life begins at conception and all of that.
00:43:15.380
So all of you, all of you righties who are like, Oh wait, we've got to be careful about the people
00:43:19.240
who are like, life begins at conception. And like, we got to stop abortions at all levels. And we got
00:43:23.880
to, that stuff in the heritage foundations report was written by an Indian. Um, so you know, who runs
0.99
00:43:30.480
by the way, American moment, right? Like if you, if you don't know who they are, they're seen as like
00:43:34.220
this far right organization that trains a lot of the staffers, a little level staffers who go into the
00:43:38.220
administration and stuff like that. They are very far, right, far, right. If people like us to the
00:43:43.400
extent where one of the other high level people in the organization regularly teases us about being
00:43:48.720
fake Christians or like the dangerous elements that they're, their head guy, Indian, I just think the
1.00
00:43:55.700
founder, Indian across the conservative sphere. Many of the people pushing for the most hard ride line,
0.76
00:44:02.580
I'd say like legacy GOP ideas and GOP, like ultra, what people would think of as like ultra Christian
00:44:09.420
hard line ideas are Indians because Indians really like order, I guess I'd say. And they, and they
1.00
00:44:15.140
like these sorts of ideas as they apply to that. So I also say that I think a lot of people who are
00:44:20.760
like, Oh, we don't want Indians ending up running our party. It's like they already do. Okay. And,
1.00
00:44:27.420
and they're pushing against the weird stuff that you think that we're doing because we're the weird
00:44:33.220
rebel type, right? The weird Appalachian, let's do something new type. They're the, let's keep things
1.00
00:44:38.180
the way they are. Let's keep the ship afloat type. And it's good that we have people of both, both
00:44:43.260
ilks. You need both. They, they moderate each other. But I think that a lot of people miss like,
00:44:52.340
like, because Indians don't like to, at least generically from what I've seen, take a public
0.98
00:44:57.340
stage in stuff or like really piss people off publicly or troll publicly. They don't realize
00:45:02.920
that a lot of the orgs that are pushing for the agenda that they want are run by Indian immigrants.
00:45:12.240
This is great. Good. All right. All, all in. I'm for it now. Maybe much more comfortable with this.
00:45:19.920
I do, I do want to keep America innovative and, you know, protective of free speech. But I also
00:45:27.580
think that they're not having kids like intergenerationally. It's not even, it's not
00:45:32.780
in favor of those things. Doesn't really have the hope necessary to maintain above repopulation
00:45:38.260
fertility. So great points. And that should have us covered. Yeah. And speaking of like,
00:45:45.040
like what do engineers help us do? Well, they help us do SpaceX. They help us develop AI.
00:45:49.200
They help us develop better semiconductors. They like all the shit you need is what they're helping
0.99
00:45:54.740
with. Pretty important. All right. Love you. Do not forget to register for natal con. It is in
0.99
00:46:03.560
March. It's coming up and you can get 10% off your registration by entering the code Collins
00:46:09.040
before you check out. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Are you flattening it out? Good job.
00:46:15.360
Good job. You're doing great, butterfly girl. Oh, wow.
00:46:32.120
Wow. You guys have flattened it so well. Is there any air left? Oh, there you go.
00:46:41.360
To, to, to. To, to. To, to. To, to. To. To, to, to, to. To, to. To, to, to, stop.