Based Camp - Does America Need Indian's？ The H1B Visa Fight

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. This is probably one of the most

00:00:03.280 requested episodes we've ever had. But what are our thoughts on the current H-1B visa debate

00:00:08.360 that's going on in the right right now? Now, just first, I need to categorize for people's brains

00:00:16.120 which the H-1B visa actually is, because there was what we are told the H-1B visa is, and then there

00:00:21.740 is what the H-1B visa actually is. So for people outside the United States, the H-1B visa is the

00:00:26.600 idea that if you have special talents or you're uniquely skilled, companies can bring you over

00:00:33.480 for immigration and sort of fast track your immigration process only if they can prove that

00:00:38.680 they can't find an equivalent person in the United States. What the H-1B visa actually is, and this is

00:00:44.640 going to shock you, Simone, is you know how the U.S. used to have like immigration thresholds for

00:00:50.020 different countries where if you were of certain ethnicities, you could get sort of a free pass

00:00:55.160 into the United States or a much easier pass into the United States than the existing ethnic mix of

00:00:59.960 the United States. Right. The H-1B visa is basically that, but for Indian people. 73% of the people who

00:01:07.800 get an H-1B visa are Indian. Whoa, wow. Okay, that's more than I thought. That's an insane amount if 0.99

00:01:18.140 you're like looking at a global stage. It is, it is the, the, and this, this plays into a lot of

00:01:23.660 resistance that some people have to it. So if you're just people like us and you're like, oh, the

00:01:27.700 competent people, like, I don't care if we get a lot of competent immigrants in, and a lot of people are 1.00

00:01:31.680 complaining, well, it's not just the competent immigrants. There's a lot of Indian nepotism causing 1.00

00:01:35.760 people to come in. So I want to get to that aspect of the debate because I think that there is a level of

00:01:40.600 nuance here. The second thing I'd like to say on all of this is I told you so. So, so many people when we were like, okay,

00:01:48.140 believe me, Trump's administration is now the new right. That's who's staffing his offices. That's

00:01:53.880 going to be the policy you're going to see coming out of it. When I talked about the new right, old

00:01:57.180 right split and the J.D. Vance appointment, and it's sort of symbolizing Trump going in a new right

00:02:03.140 direction. And I had pointed out many times, I was like, Trump is against low skilled immigrants.

00:02:08.280 He is for high skilled immigrants on the all in podcast. He even went so far as to say, he'd give all

00:02:13.140 people who've got a college degree in an America and automatic citizenship. Now, I think that's going too

00:02:17.940 far, but I am okay if you do that for like the top two, three colleges, maybe now, because it's

00:02:22.680 actually insane. We like train, have the best PhDs like in the world here. And we'll get people to

00:02:26.620 go, like go to Stanford. Like I had a friend from Israel, right. Came over, started a company. It was

00:02:31.040 doing well. And they kicked him out of the country. And I'm like, this company could have been like a

00:02:34.820 billion dollar company. What percent of our unicorns are by immigrants? I think it's like 33% of the

00:02:38.840 companies that ended up being over a billion dollars in valuation. Sorry, I was wrong here. It was 55%. So over half

00:02:46.320 of US billion dollar valuation companies are founded by first generation immigrants. 0.98

00:02:51.060 It's just stupid to kick out somebody with a Stanford MBA who's starting a company that's 0.96

00:02:55.740 already funded. Like what, what is wrong with you people? So like broadly I'm, I'm proud of this, 0.99

00:03:01.600 but, but the morning point here that was like, look, the new right is really in control of the ship

00:03:05.720 now. And a lot of people thought I was blustering or that I was bluffing or that I was like, apparently

00:03:12.660 no, like the H-1B visa, that is the most anti-MAGA thing you could have in terms of like the old MAGA,

00:03:17.680 right. But it fits perfectly with the policy of the new right, which is just about efficiency and

00:03:23.360 actually America first, like ensuring that we beat our enemies. But so if it works out well, okay. So

00:03:28.480 now let's get into the, the actual battle here. Anything you want to say before I go further?

00:03:32.460 No, keep going. I do have only one hesitation that hit me about H-1B visas after I read an

00:03:38.900 Aporia article. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on their arguments, which I will run by you,

00:03:43.740 but let's go over your arguments first. Oh, hold on. There's something we have to go over

00:03:47.440 before any of this. The Andrean Ditterman fiasco. Is this a real person's name? Well,

00:03:53.140 it's funny that you think it sounds like a made up name. So many people argue that a Twitter account

00:03:57.800 called Andrean Ditterman is a fake account that Elon Musk is using as a sock puppet to support himself

00:04:05.140 that has said things like, you're a great dad, Elon. And that has regularly tweeted like pro Elon

00:04:10.660 things. Does this seem like the kind of person to do a sock puppet account? Yeah. The left is

00:04:17.340 memeing about this. I learned about it from like an advice animals meme. Unfortunately, from a drama

00:04:23.500 perspective, it's almost certainly not true. One is common sense. If, as Simone said, it's just out of

00:04:30.200 character for him. If you like follow him in any form of a generous fashion, um, or yeah, he,

00:04:38.820 can I say he wouldn't do something like that? It just doesn't come off like him. He's sort of like

00:04:45.800 a nerdy dad type. He's not like a desperate for affirmation. In fact, he does a lot of things that

00:04:51.080 are very like going to get him public hate. He more likes shit storming than affirmation. 0.99

00:04:56.620 Like he's a, he's a troll for, for trolling sake in a big way. I think, I think he likes attention 1.00

00:05:02.600 just like any person typically, but he's not, it takes a very specific type of person to do the

00:05:10.100 sock puppeting thing. He doesn't care about positive attention, I guess I'd say. Yeah. Well, and he,

00:05:16.780 like the kind of person who is capable of, who would turn to a sock puppet puppet for affirmation

00:05:25.300 is also the kind of person who doesn't hold themselves to that high of a standard.

00:05:29.840 There are some people who are too proud who would actually want real praise. Like they may pander to

00:05:35.520 praise. They would never use themselves to do that because it needs to be real. Like the, the lack of

00:05:41.000 honor in fake praise from a sock puppet account that you yourself created would be so humiliating

00:05:46.620 to yourself and your own internal narrative that like you would never do it. But it also makes no sense.

00:05:51.080 This, this account had 20,000 followers or whatever year ago. Now it's at like a hundred thousand

00:05:54.840 followers. Elon's, Elon's tweets get like tens of millions of views. Like that he would try to

00:06:01.580 praise himself. And in terms of responses, I would guess the average Elon tweet gets probably,

00:06:09.020 what do you think? 200,000 responses? Like a single response among those would not be enough to matter.

00:06:15.200 Like even on videos as small as ours, we have already reached a size where it wouldn't make

00:06:22.060 sense for me to create a sock puppet because the sock puppet would just like be drowned out by all

00:06:27.060 the legitimate comments and praise. Elon has enough obsequious fanboys that he doesn't need a sock

00:06:32.700 puppet, but also there's hard evidence that it's not Elon, which a lot of people haven't done digging.

00:06:37.520 And so here I'm going to read from a piece by Ketrick Pratap.

00:06:40.720 According to Alistair McPlein, he participated in a Twitter spaces event and heard the voice of

00:06:46.840 Adrian Ditterman, which sounded like Elon Musk's voice modified modulation software. Yeah.

00:06:52.180 Just crazy.

00:06:53.780 But he goes on to say, last year, I joined some of Adrian Ditterman's Twitter spaces where he was

00:06:59.760 encouraging people to jump on Elon Musk tweets as soon as they were posted to boost reach and

00:07:04.580 engagement. So unfortunately here we basically have before he, and then he goes,

00:07:10.360 And it was clear that Adrian is not Elon Musk, but that he often made deliberate slips in his

00:07:15.080 conversation to spark controversy and grab attention. These slips seem designed to make

00:07:19.240 people think he's Musk, but no real evidence to support the claim. And there's also evidence

00:07:24.280 that Adrian and Elon have been in the same spaces several times, but they're not the same person.

00:07:28.480 A year ago, Adrian had 20K followers and he was actively encouraging his audience to engage with

00:07:33.100 his posts and try to get Musk into his live rooms. If you really believe Adrian is Elon,

00:07:38.200 you're probably not looking closely enough at the facts. The whole idea that they're the same

00:07:41.720 person falls apart as soon as you take a deeper look. So basically it would only appear that Adrian

00:07:46.920 was Elon if you look at his tweets from the last year. If you look at his tweets or live rooms from

00:07:51.720 before that, he was constantly begging to try to get Elon to retweet him or to dip into his live

00:07:57.080 rooms, which is not something Elon pretending to be Elon would do, especially further back in the

00:08:02.080 ruse. He wouldn't get worse at the ruse as time went on. He'd get better at the ruse as time went

00:08:08.640 on, right? One would expect, unless one becomes increasingly unhinged, like some sock puppeteers 0.88

00:08:14.480 have. Right. But to me, Elon wouldn't do that. If he was going to create a sock puppet, he wouldn't 0.62

00:08:20.320 also create a back trail where he has rooms where the sock puppet is pathetically begging to try to get

00:08:25.840 people to get Elon to retweet him. Yeah. This sounds like just a fan of Elon Musk. So what's the point?

00:08:31.760 What does this fan have to do with H1B? It is widely believed on the left that this fan is actually

00:08:36.720 Elon Musk and it's dumb as hell. Like it goes to show like just how far the left will delude themselves 0.99

00:08:42.460 to believe anything that fits their narrative. And if you're only consuming media from left-winging

00:08:48.540 spaces, you may have assumed that there was actual evidence that this guy is Elon instead of

00:08:53.780 evidence to the direct contrary. And, and when they're like, no, here's proof. He uses similar

00:08:57.740 language. Yeah. But somebody who realized they could get followers by pretending to be Elon would

00:09:01.140 use similar language. Oh, he always supports Elon. Yeah. Somebody who's trying to pretend to be an

00:09:06.000 Elon sock puppet would always support Elon. And I note here, if you want to do a little bit of digging

00:09:10.440 on this, all of the evidence that Adrian Ditterman is an Elon sock puppet comes from things that have

00:09:16.060 been posted by Adrian Ditterman, not things that have been posted by Elon. So people are like,

00:09:21.280 oh, sometimes he, he messes up and speaks in the first person. Yes. If somebody was trying to

00:09:24.860 convince you they were Elon, they would do that. Sometimes he uses language or wording similar to

00:09:29.060 Elon. Yes. If somebody was trying to convince you, he was Elon, he would do that. Like the inability to

00:09:34.000 use common sense on the left is just beyond me at this point. You would need evidence from the other

00:09:39.940 side, the harder to fake side, the side without benefit to faking side. If you're going to make this

00:09:48.620 claim of which they have literally none, like, how can you not see this? There's no motivation for

00:09:55.360 someone to pretend to be an Elon sock puppet. Oh yes. That's exactly the sort of thing a crazy

00:09:59.180 unhinged person on the internet would do. Right. So anyway, back to the topic at hand here. So who's 0.99

00:10:04.420 on each side, Elon, obviously one of the key champions on the H1B program. If so is Vivek Ramaswamy

00:10:10.400 and Donald Trump, Donald Trump has recently, it said, quote unquote, he always liked the visas.

00:10:19.480 If you're running companies, you know, you're always going to be handling this. So one side of

00:10:23.640 the battlefield, you've got Elon, you've got Vivek and you've got Donald Trump. So if you're not

00:10:27.800 familiar with Elon and Vivek, they are both entrepreneurs. They are both people who have

00:10:31.560 run companies. They are not like generic populace playing to racial anxieties, like some of wave one

00:10:40.200 Mago. Elon Musk is an immigrant from South Africa. So. Right. I think he came over on an H1BV. I 0.99

00:10:46.920 wouldn't be surprised. I don't know. He came via Canada because he first went to university in

00:10:50.680 Canada. So I don't know the whole process, but then, yeah, he went to university in the U.S. too.

00:10:55.720 So I'm not sure exactly what the immigration status was, but for sure. I mean, he is a highly

00:10:59.980 skilled person who immigrated to the United States and significantly contributed to the United States

00:11:05.020 well-being. So, you know. And then on the anti side, you have Laura Loomer and Steve Bannon.

00:11:14.500 Right. Like these are. Yes. Who have done such great things for her. Right. No, but these aren't,

00:11:20.520 you know, Steve Bannon might be like technically a business person, but he is first and foremost,

00:11:25.000 like a populist messenger. Right. And, you know, he is not somebody who's had to build

00:11:29.600 giant companies like Vivek or Elon have built or who's regularly having to hire top engineering

00:11:35.220 talent and would understand why this is necessary. Now, for the accusations that you see a lot on the

00:11:42.000 comments around this is this is just being used by Indians to hire other Indians. There is evidence

00:11:47.520 for this in terms of lawsuits. So cognizant, a U.S. jury found cognizant employment practices

00:11:53.100 constituted discriminatory conduct towards non-Indian workers.

00:11:57.700 75 percent of their workforce was South Asian.

00:12:01.700 And only about 12 percent came from the U.S.

00:12:05.820 And they're using the HPV process. So so here's the problem. Right. You can look at an entire

00:12:10.040 company that's doing this. Would you be able to catch a department at Microsoft that was doing

00:12:14.020 this? Would you be able to catch a department at Google that was doing this? No. And that's what

00:12:18.140 people are saying is happening. Right. So we know that this is happening when Indians are 1.00

00:12:22.900 running companies. Like, is it happening when they're running departments? And when you consider

00:12:26.420 the number of Fortune 500 companies in the U.S. that are run by Indians, which is hugely 1.00

00:12:29.660 disproportionate, I can see why tech workers would be stressing about this.

00:12:36.260 Then there was the Tata Consultancy Services in the United States. So they fired Americans on

00:12:42.100 short notice and replaced them with Indian workers on H-1B visas. And they were sued for illegal

00:12:47.540 discrimination here. Then you have Infosys. Paid a record $34 million to settle allegations about

00:12:52.840 this, just for the scale of the fraud here. Circumvading H-1B visa requirements to unlawfully

00:12:58.980 using B-1 visa holders to perform skilled labor. Violating U.S. immigration laws to increase profits

00:13:04.880 and an unfair advantage of our competitors. And yeah. So that's the gist of the information here.

00:13:09.960 Yeah. Now that you've heard, what was it that you read that gave you a thought on this?

00:13:13.840 Yeah. So before reading this article, I was like, categorically, we benefit from bringing in more

00:13:23.140 skilled immigration. Why? One, we need, from a demographic collapse standpoint, more high taxpayers.

00:13:31.640 So people who are coming in and making a lot of money are going to hold up the social services for

00:13:36.680 those less fortunate. And we really need that. We really need people to come in and pay for things.

00:13:41.740 So there's that. And in general, it seems like a good idea to bring in talent and keep the talent

00:13:49.600 that we invest money in through our universities to educate, right? If we have the good schools,

00:13:55.300 shouldn't we keep the good talent that we help to cultivate? So then I read Aporia's article

00:14:00.900 titled, Increasing Skilled Immigration is a Mistake. The gist of the article is that they argue that

00:14:08.780 large portion of skilled immigration is Asian and that Asian immigrants are far more likely to

00:14:16.740 undermine the underpinnings that make America successful, like freedom of speech and small

00:14:24.340 government. So the arguments that they make are that, for example, and here I'm quoting from the

00:14:31.020 article, Asian Americans are an extremely left-wing group, so much so that despite their economic success,

00:14:36.800 Asians are much more pro-government intervention than whites and are closer to blacks or Hispanics,

00:14:41.760 you have much more to gain from redistribution. For instance, a supermajority of Asians, 66%,

00:14:46.840 believe that the government should do more to solve problems compared to only 44% of whites. 0.96

00:14:51.640 Similarly, a supermajority, 70% of Asians say government regulation is necessary to protect the

00:14:57.080 public interest compared to only 53% of whites. And then when asked explicitly, Asians are much more 0.92

00:15:03.580 pro-socialist. 49% have a positive impression of socialism compared to only 31% of whites.

00:15:09.540 They also argue that Asians are 12 points more likely than whites to favor censorship. And while

00:15:16.020 it's impossible to say that this would be super powerful immediately in changing the shape of the

00:15:23.660 United States, if we have significant immigration from specifically Asian cultures, it could shift the

00:15:29.580 culture of the United States if there isn't really strong assimilation. They also point out that the

00:15:35.140 United States, in comparison with, we'll say, non-U.S. Anglosphere countries, which have had much more

00:15:42.020 open to high-skilled immigration policies historically, they note that, quote, the comparison with the

00:15:48.460 non-U.S. Anglosphere is particularly instructive because these countries are very similar to the United

00:15:52.880 States culturally, genetically, and institutionally. Britain, Australia, and Canada have all grown more

00:15:58.580 slowly than the United States since the 2008 financial crisis. And all three have embraced a policy of

00:16:04.180 enormous amounts, far more per capita than the United States, of skilled legal immigration, particularly

00:16:09.340 from China and South Asia. All three have been relatively stagnant personal incomes and skyrocketing

00:16:15.060 housing prices. One might object on the grounds that immigration to Canada, Australia, and Britain isn't

00:16:19.860 really skilled, but this is what skilled immigration looks like when refracted through government

00:16:24.620 bureaucracies. We should treat these countries as a cautionary tale. We would very easily end up in

00:16:29.320 their shoes. And then I would add to that that after reading this article, I hear news about how

00:16:34.900 Canada is undergoing an intense housing pricing crisis, and the government is kind of in turmoil now

00:16:42.140 because no one can afford housing. And what happened was, especially when it came to people being able to

00:16:47.300 get work permits and better immigration status by attending some kind of university in Canada,

00:16:52.500 that basically diploma mills started rolling out diplomas to immigrants who then got to stay in

00:16:57.960 Canada and who have just kind of messed up the job market and they've messed up the housing market. 0.80

00:17:04.060 And while Americans largely agree that immigrants are taking jobs that Americans don't want,

00:17:10.440 I would also argue that Americans are going to have to start taking jobs that Americans don't want 0.95

00:17:14.300 because the jobs they do want are disappearing because of AI. So these are my general hesitations. I think

00:17:19.880 there are ways to navigate around that. I'm going to push back really hard on this particular

00:17:25.160 hesitation. So I think if they, and I like Aporia, but I think that they do have certain biases

00:17:32.840 around certain HBD stuff. And I think that if they wanted to convince me, they would have run the

00:17:39.260 statistics by South Asian immigrants because that's who's using the H-1B visa and the political

00:17:44.400 opinions of, am I surprised that, you know, like Chinese or like Japanese or Korean people might

00:17:51.120 be majority Democrat? Yeah. I mean, like a lot of my, even like a lot of smart Asians I know are like

00:17:57.040 Democrat, like weirdly. And I'm like, but you, you see, there's the bad guys. And they're like,

00:18:00.600 yeah, but you know, whatever the system. I have not seen the same with my South Asian friends.

00:18:05.860 Indians, in fact, and I have argued this in a previous episode,

00:18:09.020 might end up being the core of the leadership of a future Republican party in this country.

00:18:14.680 And we're already seeing this was the new right, whether it's for Beck or Chamath or like that,

00:18:20.300 they, they just come off as much better aligned with the right than, I mean, we even see this in

00:18:29.840 the influencer space, even in like the HBD, like even in their own influencer space, you've got like

00:18:34.320 Razeeb Khan, you got, you know, I just, I don't know if I, and I will look up afterwards for

00:18:41.820 statistics on this after the show. So Indians of the voting bloc have been moving rapidly to the

00:18:46.300 right recently. In 2020, 56% of American Indians identified as Democrats. Well, in 2024, this number 0.98

00:18:53.000 had dropped to 47%. However, one poll found that 61% intended to vote for Kamala, while only 32%

00:19:02.240 intended to vote for Trump. But I actually expect that the right is going to pick up a lot of

00:19:06.140 Indians. And it just seems pretty natural to me, given that they're pretty based on a lot of this, 0.99

00:19:13.380 there's ethnic differences between people's stuff. And we want to protect the country.

00:19:17.180 Yeah. Even when it comes to like CRISPR human editing there, there are.

00:19:22.460 Oh yeah. They are the most pro-genetically editing humans culture. They're the only culture 0.64

00:19:27.060 where the majority of people are like, yeah, it's like 80% or something like in India,

00:19:30.860 but there's the secondary effect here, which I want to consider, which is a lot of people are

00:19:36.020 like, yeah, but what about the nepotism networks? And I'm like, look, the nepotism networks are real,

00:19:41.260 but then you also have the cultural differences issue. And as we point out, there are cultural

00:19:45.840 differences between people. It's just, yeah. And maybe, maybe ethnic differences as well. I mean,

00:19:50.880 what's the point of diversity if we're not different, right? And India as a culture creates,

00:19:57.360 now the first thing I'd note is we are draining India right now. So if you look at the Indians 1.00

00:20:02.260 who come to America, they are disproportionately Brahmin caste, which is the vast minority of

00:20:07.440 Indians in India. To be more specific, 80% of Hindi Indian Americans identify with one of the upper

00:20:15.200 castes. And of those who are Brahmins specifically, 25% of American immigrants are Brahmins. This contrast 0.70

00:20:24.080 was them making up just 5% of India's population. And these are people who are genetically quite

00:20:30.100 distant from the other castes in India, to the extent where, Foria did a good piece on this,

00:20:34.440 there is as much difference between a Brahmin and like another caste in India, as there is between

00:20:40.040 somebody in Northern Germany and Greece in Europe. And if you know the difference between the German

00:20:46.160 people and the Greek people, it is severe. You could not just replace a German person with a Greek 1.00

00:20:52.000 person and average. And, you know, I just say there's a reason there's not a lot of heavy

00:20:58.340 manufacturing in Greece. Now, the point here being is that we are getting a cream of the crop from India

00:21:06.480 that has been selected as the cream of the crop over like literally their entire history of this caste

00:21:14.240 system, where they had this like intellectual caste, which is who the Brahmins are. So we're not, 1.00

00:21:20.360 we're one, not getting normal quote unquote Indians. We are getting elite Indians, which are 0.75

00:21:27.320 more genetically distant from normals than people from other countries would be, is going to be 1.00

00:21:33.880 very damaging to India's future prospects. And then when it's not just that, we also get like the 0.97

00:21:39.440 other like elite Indian groups at higher rates, like the Jayans and the Indian Christians and the,

00:21:43.780 right. India has had Christians for like ever. If you didn't know this.

00:21:46.840 Really? No, I did not know that.

00:21:48.860 Yeah. India, India has had a Christians, I think from within like 300 years of Christ's life, 1.00

00:21:53.220 they've had a Christian community.

00:21:54.280 Goodness gracious. All right.

00:21:56.620 Which obviously leads to like a, a differentiated genetically community because they're basically

00:22:01.820 considered religious weirdos for a long time. Right. You know, like the same way the Jayans would 0.99

00:22:06.460 be, or in the same way the, the Parsi would be who we often talk about, who we also disproportionately

00:22:11.100 would get as immigrants. I don't think we get disproportionate Parsis actually,

00:22:13.520 because they have to weird live in weird like housing stuff. But anyway, and I'm assuming

00:22:18.460 we get a disproportionate number of Jayans immigrants given the number of Jayans I know

00:22:21.420 versus a percent of the Indian population. So in all these groups that we're mentioning

00:22:24.980 are groups that do disproportionately economically well in India. So we are draining India of 1.00

00:22:28.860 its talent. They're coming to the US. Many of them aren't having kids. You know, it's not

00:22:33.640 like they're going to replace us or anything, you know, it's just a drain on a global economic

00:22:41.500 talent for some minor economic benefit to the United States, which, you know, being a pro

00:22:48.200 American nationalist, I'm pro that it would be cool if we could create self-sustaining Indian

00:22:52.520 communities here. But like, who knows if that's a possibility. A note here, Indians have a fertility 0.98

00:22:57.180 rate of 1.47 children per woman as of 2022. So well below the American average and well below

00:23:05.500 replacement rate. But then it's the cultural differences between this group of Indians,

00:23:11.060 the group I've seen in the United States and other people, is when people tell me like,

00:23:14.920 can you believe this portion of Fortune 500 companies are run by Indians? Can you believe 1.00

00:23:19.380 that what is it now? It's Google is run by an Indian. Microsoft is run by an Indian. IBM is run 0.94

00:23:24.200 by an Indian. Adobe is run by an Indian. YouTube is run by an Indian. Like all of them are run 1.00

00:23:29.140 by Indians now. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Like, I mean, in the tech space,

00:23:33.960 there's just a really heavy Indian representation. Yeah. And it's that I would say that Indians have

00:23:39.960 a unique talent, like the cultural differences that are represented in this group of Indians that

00:23:45.820 we are getting as H1 and Lisa holders, as they're sort of like a perfect culture for engaging with

00:23:53.700 and out-competing within large bureaucracies. They are just hyper good at it. And like, I also kind

00:24:00.800 of get it. Okay. Simone, for example, obviously we've never done this form of discrimination.

00:24:05.620 The vast majority of people who work for us are Latin American. That's the culture we work most with.

00:24:09.900 But let's just say you had a technology company, right? And it was a big one. Lots of people were

00:24:14.740 working at it. And you had to choose. Are you trying to get a suit? Okay, I won't say this. I'm just saying

00:24:22.940 that, like, the point is, is, is, is that Indian culture leads to them questioning orders less or trying 0.93

00:24:30.440 their own ideas without your approval less in ways that can lead to things falling apart. They are less

00:24:37.560 likely to, as, as I've seen, waste time on personal recreation in the office and stuff like that.

00:24:44.000 They, well, no, it's just like, I get why when Elon's like, look, I cannot find competent lead

00:24:50.580 engineers trained in the United States. And I'm looking to India for that from a cultural perspective.

00:24:56.660 I sort of get where he's coming from. If you're looking for steady iterative improvement without

00:25:02.220 risk of, like, a controversy or without risk of, keep in mind, how, how frequently do you hear of

00:25:08.740 some, like, Indian head of a company, right, getting in trouble for a hooker party or harassing one of

00:25:15.400 his staff or sleeping with an underage intern or, like, never, like, well, not never, like,

00:25:23.360 obviously it happens, but I'm just saying. Well, can you, can you think of a single example of

00:25:27.660 one happening, though? To one of that happening? No. I can't either. Whoops. Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

00:25:36.260 Whoops. Right. Like, this creates a problem, right? But I would say, so in response to the

00:25:40.640 Eporia article, you're just arguing that basically they are fudging with the samples here, basically

00:25:47.340 trying to fob off East Asians as, like, South Asians as well, and that really most of the H1B visa,

00:25:55.080 like, the evidence you already have, like, you stated that the 70-something percent number

00:26:00.040 being South Asians. Yeah. And it's just a different group. So you can't just be like, well, Asians

00:26:07.100 are generally more in favor of big government and socialism and censorship when, in the end,

00:26:12.300 you need to, like, if we're really going to have this conversation, we need to pull specific numbers

00:26:17.120 about South Asians. Yes. And this nullifies their argument.

00:26:21.200 Note here, it doesn't nullify their argument, as I made a point in the ad earlier, is that they are

00:26:28.980 right, and the majority of South Asians are voting Democratic even still. While they are moving to the 0.99

00:26:35.400 right, if we were trying to just bring in people who we felt would vote for our side, then we should

00:26:40.960 stop bringing in South Asians. I think that ultimately, with these groups, we're just causing 1.00

00:26:46.980 more harm to ourselves by putting in immigration bans. Anything that hurts our AI companies right

00:26:54.000 now, or our space travel companies right now, our drone companies, these are the things that are going

00:26:59.220 to lead us to have global hegemi in the future. The people who win these particular battles now 0.99

00:27:03.940 are going to win the game. I mean, after World War II, we took a bunch of Nazi engineers to, you know, 0.80

00:27:09.500 build the space program and a lot of the technology that our world runs off of right now,

00:27:13.780 and that helped make us so rich, and people could say, like, yeah, but they, you know, had all these

00:27:18.240 bad views, and they had all these bad politics, and I'm like, yeah, but they were damn good engineers.

00:27:24.120 The AI race right now is the Manhattan project of our era, and the country who wins it basically 0.75

00:27:30.760 wins the civilizational game as far as any good predictive powers we have right now. It makes sense

00:27:37.860 that we're doing whatever we can to get cheap, high-quality talent, even if it comes at a cost,

00:27:45.140 and I do admit it does come at a cost.

00:27:48.080 Note here, if you talk about them, like, destroying American culture or something like that, 0.96

00:27:52.660 Indians are the least destructive, like, even less than the Jews. I'm like, the Jews don't try to 1.00

00:28:00.040 convert you. Like, why are you messing with them? They're not trying to, like, influence you with

00:28:03.760 their culture, but they often end up running, like, big media stuff and things like that. It

00:28:08.080 intrinsically leads their culture to trip to go down into society, and they often end up being,

00:28:12.780 like, well-known intellectuals who people listen to. Indians, it's almost the opposite. Like, 1.00

00:28:17.900 your kids are not at risk of being converted into, like, Hindu or Sikh or any of those cultures

00:28:26.780 coming out of India. There's for sure no evangelization that I see happening. There's

00:28:34.700 also very little exclusion. Most of the big Indian weddings that I've been seeing friends posting

00:28:41.300 photos of, for example, are mixed between, you know, one American and one Indian.

00:28:48.420 Well, in our neighborhood, people might not know this, but for where we live in, like, rural U.S.,

00:28:53.600 and this is something that a lot of people who grew up in cities don't know, is this is my read.

00:28:58.460 I don't know if it's true, but it's my read, is that Indians actually primarily do not immigrate

00:29:02.920 to inner-city America in the same way a lot of other immigrants do. When people are like, 0.99

00:29:06.180 oh, I live in an inner city, so I'm in such a diverse area. I'm like, well, I mean, only a few

00:29:10.560 ethnicities actually tolerate American inner cities. And many pretty much exclusively immigrate to

00:29:16.120 American suburbs and exurbs. Indians and South Asians are one of the groups that pretty much

00:29:20.240 primarily immigrates to exurbs. And so our town that we live in is majority for our age

00:29:27.620 area is South Asian. And they're either Indian or Pakistani, I haven't asked yet, because you

00:29:32.200 don't want to get that one wrong. And I can't tell the difference.

00:29:34.600 That's so true.

00:29:35.560 I remember in an episode-

00:29:36.840 Well, wouldn't, if they were, if there were more Pakistani, we would probably see more 1.00

00:29:41.000 Islamic-style failing among women, and we do not. 1.00

00:29:44.620 Oh yeah, we've seen absolutely none of that. Yeah, they must be.

00:29:46.420 I would say that they're primarily Indian, if I had to guess.

00:29:51.840 Yeah. But when we moved here, we considered that like a huge bonus.

00:29:56.380 Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. We can get the Indian grocery store that is literally walking distance

00:30:03.000 from our house, where we can get like directly imported spices and foods. Oh yeah.

00:30:09.320 Oh yeah. And all these Indian, oh, we use them in cooking all the time. I love it.

00:30:12.500 But, but it's not just that. We need to make sag paneer soon.

00:30:16.820 It's not just that. It's that culturally speaking, if I'm like, how do I know that my kids are

00:30:23.960 going to grow up safe? If they're hanging out with a bunch of Indian friends, I'm not worried 1.00

00:30:28.000 about them. I'm not worried about them.

00:30:31.320 Yeah. This morning, you were on this big kick of like, oh my God, like what if our children's

00:30:35.860 best friends come out as Therians? And then what are we going to do? And yeah, well, 0.99

00:30:39.880 their daughter comes out as a Therian. That's somebody who thinks that they're an animal

00:30:46.140 technically, like a trans person thinks they're the other gender. That, that first generation 1.00

00:30:49.860 Indian parent is going to be like, what the fuck are you talking about? You're not a cat. 1.00

00:30:54.100 Like grow up and study. But what I'm saying is, is like culturally speaking, am I afraid

00:31:01.080 of them like tainting the United States in some way? Like, absolutely not. In fact, I feel

00:31:06.600 much safer with my kids. Like if they brought home, let's, let's put it this way. If they

00:31:12.760 brought home like white friends, right. I'd be like, and they're like, oh, I want to go 1.00

00:31:16.660 to their house. I'm like, I actually need to like investigate the parents.

00:31:19.000 Yeah. We, we need to, we need to check them out. We need to call their parents, maybe visit

00:31:23.440 with them the first time. Yeah. Make sure they're not going to be, you know, trying to

00:31:28.760 and not indoctrinate my kid was like ridiculous ideas. If, if this kid is, is, you know, obviously

00:31:35.460 like second generation, like their parents are first generation Indians. I'm not, I'm not 1.00

00:31:39.180 vetting that. I'm like, yeah, fuck go. I am no risk of them picking up bad habits from 1.00

00:31:46.720 that.

00:31:46.920 Well, you're just going to want the parents to like you. We'd probably send them over

00:31:49.540 with eggs from our coop or something like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd be nice about it,

00:31:53.580 but like what I'm saying is I wouldn't have any fears at all. And that might be, I mean,

00:31:59.700 this is the thing, like they say that, like, I guess that's a racist position for me to be

00:32:03.620 like, look, if they look like their first generation immigrants from India, I'm pretty 1.00

00:32:07.060 sure they're not woke or insane like that. A lot of people would be like, that's a really

00:32:10.840 offensive, but it's fucking true. Especially if they're in an Indian community, like the 1.00

00:32:15.340 community in our neighborhood. So then I guess I'm just not afraid of the cultural damage

00:32:24.000 that could be done by these groups. I am okay with the ones who want to keep their culture.

00:32:28.480 I'm okay with the ones who want to join our culture. Like what, either way, it's fine.

00:32:33.940 It's not like a destructive culture. And there are cultures I think that are destructive, right?

00:32:39.900 But just the Indian Brahmins who are coming over, it's not a culture that like I'd be particularly 0.99

00:32:45.940 worried about damaging the United States. Now people will be like, what, you really have no

00:32:51.060 problem with the fact that 73% of people coming in the H-1B visa are Indian, approximately 13% are

00:32:57.140 Chinese. But when you look at, you know, countries like Canada, it's 1%. If you look at the United

00:33:02.660 Kingdom, it's 0.5 to 6%. France, 0.4%. Germany, 0.3%. Italy, 0.3%. Spain, 0.3%.

00:33:09.660 Like, don't you want more German immigrants? Don't you want more Canadian immigrants?

00:33:14.520 And here I'm like, well, I mean, so there's sort of two factors here, right? Like, is there a threat

00:33:19.600 that we're bringing in a bunch of people who are going to replace us? No, because Indians and Chinese 1.00

00:33:24.180 have a much lower birth rate than native-born Americans. So we're bringing in a population

00:33:28.660 we're essentially memetically burning off within a generation or two. But then two, I think people

00:33:34.540 have in their heads that Germans are, I don't know, like, like something that they aren't. Germans

00:33:40.860 and Canadians are like infected with the woke mind virus much more than people in the United States. 0.99

00:33:47.240 Look at what they've done to their own countries. Do we want to be importing them into our country? 1.00

00:33:52.280 Like, Indians are fairly based from most of the interactions I have with them. Germans,

00:33:59.960 on the other hand? Canadians, on the other hand? Like, I think that people have this perception

00:34:06.280 that they're importing, like, it's like we're in a zombie plague right now.

00:34:11.280 Ah! I told you this new one's terrible! There's no cure!

00:34:15.900 Oh, not Sophie, man, not Sophie! We can't kill Sophie!

00:34:18.660 We must check our privilege to dismantle the heteronormative, patriarchy, systemic pattern

00:34:22.380 of oppression! 1.00

00:34:24.160 Okay, let's kill it. 1.00

00:34:24.880 Now, with this mind virus, and we're in this fortification, and we've been letting in survivors, 1.00

00:34:31.240 and then the guy next to me is like, hey, not enough of the survivors are white, and you

00:34:36.120 know, white's gotta stick with white, so can we let some of those guys in? And I'm like, 0.95

00:34:40.440 those guys are clearly zombies. I understand they're white, but the walk, the groaning, 1.00

00:34:47.660 the I eat brains. Can we maybe, like, forget about ethnocentrism for a minute here, and 0.55

00:34:55.000 just admit that, like, Germany and Canada are already lost?

00:34:59.460 And I'd also point out here that more Indians are coming in on this program, and more Chinese

00:35:28.680 people are coming in on this program because they're applying to companies in the US to

00:35:33.080 move here, and these companies are hiring them to move here at a rate much higher than

00:35:38.960 Germans or British people are doing that. It's not like the system itself is rigged outside

00:35:45.680 of the esno-nepotism that exists among Indians and Chinese, right? 1.00

00:35:51.680 The problem that I, and pretty much the entire new right, has with unchecked immigration is that 1.00

00:35:58.520 these people are coming in, and they are not contributing tax dollars. They are not contributing

00:36:03.480 to our economy. The government's giving them free, you know, money, basically, and it's just

00:36:10.300 unsustainable. You cannot have, as I've mentioned many times, a country cannot survive with both

00:36:16.000 porous borders and substantial social services, because if you have both, then you are going to

00:36:21.720 disproportionately attract the people who want to live off of those social services, which are the 0.83

00:36:25.820 least productive people, until you can no longer afford to offer those services, because they just

00:36:30.660 keep coming in until the, like, osmosis, basically.

00:36:33.440 Now, here's my question for you, because this is where I do have some consternation.

00:36:37.780 Okay.

00:36:38.320 What about the Indian manager at Google who's just hiring all Indians? Do we need to have, like, 1.00

00:36:44.080 better laws about this? Do we need to have?

00:36:49.900 I, this is hard, because cultural fit and also team cohesion, it just works better when people

00:36:58.360 are on the same level with culture, you know, that it's going to work better together.

00:37:04.380 Oh, God, but now I'm talking about segregation. But if I, if I want a team to work together optimally,

00:37:10.620 I'm not going to, I can't, imposing affirmative action on someone is going, it's going to compromise

00:37:17.900 the potential efficiency of their team. And if they want to be able to work seamlessly with people

00:37:23.340 and not have to spend a ton of time on communication and handholding and making sure everyone's on the

00:37:27.520 same page, hiring people, and this is, this is for exactly the same reason why we're so in favor of

00:37:33.220 people hiring their cousins or childhood friends at our own business or siblings.

00:37:37.300 Yeah, that's what we do at our business. We're a majority Latin American business that we operate.

00:37:41.200 And a bunch of our newest hires have been existing team members, siblings, cousins,

00:37:46.860 extended family, et cetera. And that is because they work seamlessly together. And there isn't this

00:37:51.860 huge, like, investment in trading.

00:37:54.440 And there isn't a fight over stuff. So like, if you're talking about sales commissions and stuff

00:37:58.140 like that, if everyone's related to each other, then they don't care because they're all sending

00:38:00.980 the money back to the same people.

00:38:02.180 Yeah, it's, it's just, it's, it's a different thing. So I, I don't, one, I don't like intervention

00:38:10.220 in any case, you know, sort of what you would say, what you would say is that the problem here

00:38:15.700 isn't that the Indians are being ethnically selective in their hiring practices. It's that

00:38:20.660 whites should be more ethnically selective in their hiring practices to even it out.

00:38:24.820 Because, no, because I think that in many cases, like we, for example, don't hire whites ever, 0.90

00:38:34.780 really. I mean, not on purpose, not on purpose.

00:38:37.060 Well, I guess you could say like, like European people of like direct European descent, just so

00:38:42.540 many people that are like Latin America or like Italians, you know, like from, they're from Europe.

00:38:46.640 I just like, it's weird saying whites, but yeah, just like people from like, we, we, we're not hiring 0.99

00:38:51.560 people who are culturally similar to us in many cases for our own companies, because we don't

00:38:56.040 think that people who are culturally similar to us, or maybe like the best people to do specific

00:39:00.680 roles that we're hiring for. I think we just have to be, I don't know. Can we just do a, don't be a

00:39:07.180 dick about it rule, you know, like be reasonable. Don't, don't be crazy and make your own way. 0.98

00:39:14.460 Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know if you can, I, I, I get it. It's group, like it's screwed up that a

00:39:22.060 bunch of, well, but here's the thing is, is I imagine what happened was a lot of these white 0.87

00:39:26.320 people who are laid off. And then a bunch of Indian H1B visa people were hired was because the

00:39:31.220 white people just cost a lot less. When you have companies that are meant to maximize shareholder 0.81

00:39:35.720 value. Well, Oh, can you be so angry that they're trying to maximize shareholder value by getting rid of

00:39:41.720 more expensive people? I just feel like letting market forces play out is something you have to

00:39:47.720 do if companies are designed to maximize shareholder value. And if you have such a big problem with that,

00:39:53.620 well, maybe you don't build your entire society around that. Well, but I disagree. I genuinely do

00:39:59.820 think that there is racism in how some Indians hire, I think, especially in the tech industry. And I

00:40:06.060 understand why some people are mad about this. Well, I mean, but, but racism, or is it comfort

00:40:11.860 working with people like you? That's racism. Simone, you're saying like, is it racism that X,

00:40:18.800 X person never hires any black people or comfort in working with people like him? Like that's racism.

00:40:25.000 Okay. Call it what you want, but discomfort with people of different ethnic groups is racism.

00:40:30.820 Now I, I, what you're arguing is that maybe it doesn't need to be malicious, but it is malicious

00:40:36.460 if it's leading to differential hiring practices. If it was a white person, not hiring non-white people,

00:40:42.360 you would see this as... I know. I just, I really don't like the idea of telling people how to run

00:40:49.220 their businesses. Yeah. This is where I'd say, I'd say... I would hate the idea of, of someone being like,

00:40:56.480 you've been hiring too many non-American people for your company, Simone and Mel.

00:41:02.780 No, I agree. We would get in so much trouble. If you could get in trouble for hiring too many

00:41:06.740 gay people or Latin Americans, our company would be in so much shit. People would be like, you have a, 1.00

00:41:11.460 you have a really weird number of gay Latin Americans at your company. And I'm like, well, 1.00

00:41:16.340 we're a travel agency. They're good at this. Um, and they're like, that sounds like a stereotype.

00:41:21.540 I'm like, because it's fucking true. You knob like there that there's a reason. But what I would say, 0.88

00:41:28.240 Simone, it is my sort of summary on this. If you were wondering, like, what's my, I get the

00:41:34.420 concern. I am not saying that this is an issue where it's black and white and there's no concerns.

00:41:41.060 But if I was going to come down on a, would I want America cutting back on or restricting H1B visas?

00:41:47.400 No, I think that will hurt us economically. I think that hurts us from a national

00:41:51.420 security perspective. I think that hurts us geopolitically. I think that that makes our

00:41:55.780 country weaker. Like across the board, there are negatives to H1B visas. Yeah. In the face of 1.00

00:42:02.960 demographic collapse, beggars can't be choosers too. Yeah. On the net, it's a benefit. And because 1.00

00:42:11.020 it's a benefit on the net, I'm okay with it. Yeah. And I am actually really glad to see that it

00:42:18.620 looks like Trump administration is moving in this direction. Yeah. And we told you guys like before

00:42:23.200 the election and people were like, Oh, like, are these guys really like the number one, like new

00:42:27.780 right podcasters? I think we kind of are. Uh, maybe, maybe all in is, is it would be considered

00:42:33.460 like solidly new, right? And very, yeah. And they're very big, but you're the biggest new right

00:42:38.780 female, which I always point out to her. You are literally the biggest new right female talking 1.00

00:42:43.200 head. And we told you guys before this election, we're like new right is for skilled immigration,

00:42:48.860 like unmitigatedly for skilled immigration. And I think a lot of people, they thought maybe

00:42:55.280 like this wouldn't end up in policy or like we were bluffing or like we're, we're shitting you. 0.92

00:43:00.720 And I'm like, no, like this is, this is what we believe. Also the funny, the, one of the guys

00:43:05.320 who were friends with at the heritage foundation who wrote a lot of the, the spooky stuff that scared

00:43:09.860 progressives about the like birth control and life begins at conception and all of that.

00:43:15.380 So all of you, all of you righties who are like, Oh wait, we've got to be careful about the people

00:43:19.240 who are like, life begins at conception. And like, we got to stop abortions at all levels. And we got

00:43:23.880 to, that stuff in the heritage foundations report was written by an Indian. Um, so you know, who runs 0.99

00:43:30.480 by the way, American moment, right? Like if you, if you don't know who they are, they're seen as like

00:43:34.220 this far right organization that trains a lot of the staffers, a little level staffers who go into the

00:43:38.220 administration and stuff like that. They are very far, right, far, right. If people like us to the

00:43:43.400 extent where one of the other high level people in the organization regularly teases us about being

00:43:48.720 fake Christians or like the dangerous elements that they're, their head guy, Indian, I just think the 1.00

00:43:55.700 founder, Indian across the conservative sphere. Many of the people pushing for the most hard ride line, 0.76

00:44:02.580 I'd say like legacy GOP ideas and GOP, like ultra, what people would think of as like ultra Christian

00:44:09.420 hard line ideas are Indians because Indians really like order, I guess I'd say. And they, and they 1.00

00:44:15.140 like these sorts of ideas as they apply to that. So I also say that I think a lot of people who are

00:44:20.760 like, Oh, we don't want Indians ending up running our party. It's like they already do. Okay. And, 1.00

00:44:27.420 and they're pushing against the weird stuff that you think that we're doing because we're the weird

00:44:33.220 rebel type, right? The weird Appalachian, let's do something new type. They're the, let's keep things 1.00

00:44:38.180 the way they are. Let's keep the ship afloat type. And it's good that we have people of both, both

00:44:43.260 ilks. You need both. They, they moderate each other. But I think that a lot of people miss like,

00:44:52.340 like, because Indians don't like to, at least generically from what I've seen, take a public 0.98

00:44:57.340 stage in stuff or like really piss people off publicly or troll publicly. They don't realize

00:45:02.920 that a lot of the orgs that are pushing for the agenda that they want are run by Indian immigrants.

00:45:08.120 Hmm. Fair point. Yeah.

00:45:12.240 This is great. Good. All right. All, all in. I'm for it now. Maybe much more comfortable with this.

00:45:19.920 I do, I do want to keep America innovative and, you know, protective of free speech. But I also

00:45:27.580 think that they're not having kids like intergenerationally. It's not even, it's not

00:45:32.780 in favor of those things. Doesn't really have the hope necessary to maintain above repopulation

00:45:38.260 fertility. So great points. And that should have us covered. Yeah. And speaking of like,

00:45:45.040 like what do engineers help us do? Well, they help us do SpaceX. They help us develop AI.

00:45:49.200 They help us develop better semiconductors. They like all the shit you need is what they're helping 0.99

00:45:54.740 with. Pretty important. All right. Love you. Do not forget to register for natal con. It is in 0.99

00:46:03.560 March. It's coming up and you can get 10% off your registration by entering the code Collins

00:46:09.040 before you check out. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Are you flattening it out? Good job.

00:46:15.360 Good job. You're doing great, butterfly girl. Oh, wow.

00:46:23.800 Wow.

00:46:32.120 Wow. You guys have flattened it so well. Is there any air left? Oh, there you go.

00:46:41.360 To, to, to. To, to. To, to. To, to. To. To, to, to, to. To, to. To, to, to, stop.

00:46:47.140 Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Yay.

00:46:49.200 Thank you.

Based Camp - December 31, 2024

Does America Need Indian's？ The H1B Visa Fight

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