Based Camp - Does Body Count Really Matter？

00:00:00.000 When women are like, yeah, I slept with him, but I didn't have an emotional connection with him. 0.95

00:00:04.080 That is a thousand times worse.

00:00:06.320 That almost means you're more likely, as the male partner, to be raising a child that is not yours.

00:00:11.120 Because apparently they just do not care.

00:00:13.440 Yes, I didn't have an emotion.

00:00:15.860 If somebody cheated on me, I would a thousand times prefer they're like, well, I cheated on you because I had a strong emotional connection with him.

00:00:22.440 Yeah.

00:00:23.240 Would you like to know more?

00:00:27.380 Hello, Malcolm.

00:00:28.240 Hello, Simone. 0.69

00:00:30.700 It is wonderful to be chatting with you today.

00:00:33.160 Yeah.

00:00:33.580 So, you know, obviously one of my favorite people in the entire world is Ayla.

00:00:36.320 And when she does events, these live Twitter polls where she'll have people line up based on all sorts of things.

00:00:43.900 You know, how recently did you poop?

00:00:46.560 Or to our subject today, what is your body count?

00:00:49.820 And I, that's one of my favorite ones that she, she lines people up about because you really see a very interesting logarithmic scale when people line up.

00:01:00.740 So it's like zero, like a couple of ones, and then it's two to five, like vast majority of people.

00:01:07.720 And then it's like 50, 112, 250, like it's crazy.

00:01:13.280 It just gets like crazy high.

00:01:14.700 And I'm always at one end of these, obviously the really high end of the scale.

00:01:18.940 You're always the really low end of the scale because we're exact opposites in that, you know, you being a virgin when we first met and me being just ridiculously high body count.

00:01:29.020 And I remember recently I learned something new at these events because it wasn't something I had thought about before.

00:01:33.600 I was at one end and usually at the really high end, it's, it's almost all male guys.

00:01:38.260 And one of the guys was like, wait, because previously they hadn't done this at the previous one.

00:01:42.960 They had one on how heterosexual are you?

00:01:45.040 And I was like, it went the extremity of heterosexual. 1.00

00:01:46.880 No, I think it was, was how many different dicks have you had in your mouth? 1.00

00:01:51.060 Oh, that's what it was. 0.99

00:01:51.760 So something like that. 1.00

00:01:52.220 It was surprising how few men had never had a dick in their mouth. 1.00

00:01:56.220 It was like, what on earth? 1.00

00:01:57.860 Very rare.

00:01:58.340 Yeah.

00:01:58.820 So, so one of the guys turns to me and he goes, wait, it all heterosexual.

00:02:03.960 And, and then all of the other guys who were like at the extreme end of the scale were like, wow, impressive.

00:02:10.280 Yeah.

00:02:10.620 So yeah.

00:02:11.040 But what you also didn't realize is that high body count is often man to man.

00:02:14.940 Yeah.

00:02:15.220 Yes.

00:02:15.580 And I hadn't considered that.

00:02:16.960 So, so yeah, I was even probably more extreme than I had considered within these contexts.

00:02:21.000 But this is really interesting because for me, when I met you, I think it would be really disingenuous for me to pretend that you having an incredibly low body count wasn't a huge bonus to me.

00:02:36.640 And when I went out and would sleep with people, I specialized both in people with low body counts, virgins mostly, because that was just the pathway and the tactics that I was using in the sexuality video that we're not able to post here.

00:02:50.340 But also because I personally found it really gross when I learned that a woman had a high body count. 1.00

00:02:57.300 And I think one of the big problems in our society, when people talk about do body counts actually matter, it, it breaks down on a few fronts.

00:03:08.240 So conservatives often will use arguments like a key that opens any lock, you know, or a lock that can be opened by any key, you know, and, or you wouldn't want to use a shoe that a bunch of other people had used.

00:03:19.500 Oh, yeah. And I think Mormons use a chewed gum analogy. 0.99

00:03:23.720 Yeah. And all of these analogies, I don't really think sell the message.

00:03:29.680 Like if I was a young girl and somebody told me one of these analogies, you know, what I would think is, well, times have changed and you're just an old person and you don't know how it is for my generation.

00:03:39.800 Or that's, you know, an older mindset or that's not convincing.

00:03:44.320 To me, if I was a woman and somebody was like, well, you wouldn't want a shoe that a bunch of people had worn. 0.99

00:03:50.200 Like, screw you. I buy like all of my shoes on Poshmark and I rent half of my shoes on Rent the Runway.

00:03:56.320 And I'd also be like, but why doesn't this apply to guys?

00:04:00.380 And then people would be like, because the guy is the one going in the thing.

00:04:04.540 It's the, it's the sword, not the sheath.

00:04:06.760 It's the foot, not the shoe.

00:04:08.860 Right. And the answer to that would be, wait, why does that matter?

00:04:13.520 Why would that mean it doesn't matter for guys, but it matters for girls?

00:04:17.580 And then when you talk to progressives about this inequality, they'll often answer, well, it shouldn't.

00:04:23.460 It is unfair that it matters and therefore it doesn't matter.

00:04:27.420 Or we can build a world in which it doesn't matter.

00:04:29.560 You mean it shouldn't matter. Yeah.

00:04:30.840 Yeah. Which is dumb as well. 0.97

00:04:32.660 And so I think we need to have an honest conversation about where the actual costs are involved in this. 0.96

00:04:39.680 The effects it has on women and, you know, just for our daughters or women listeners, so they can really contextualize this.

00:04:46.580 Because I think the average woman in our society today dramatically underestimates how much partner count matters to guys. 0.98

00:04:56.220 A great one, you know, speaking of Ayla polls that you had mentioned to me before was one where it was like, would you rather sleep with a hundred women or have your wife sleep with one other person?

00:05:09.420 And 90% or something said they'd rather their wife not sleep with one other person if it meant they could sleep with a hundred women.

00:05:15.360 Yeah. It was something along those lines.

00:05:16.300 Basically, you know, would you prefer to have a ton of partners and like your wife also slept with a decent number of people or not? 1.00

00:05:23.580 And yeah, apparently men care more about having a committed female partner who does not have a lot of, who does not have a high body count than they care about body count.

00:05:31.860 Which is insane because the assumption, of course, is that men, no matter what, like sort of like number one priority is high body count.

00:05:39.340 But no, it seems to be more like high body count, but with low body count women, I guess. 1.00

00:05:47.240 Yeah, high body count with low body count women is what you're, well, so, yeah. 1.00

00:05:52.760 For one night stands, I don't think they care.

00:05:54.340 I think that it's totally fine to have a one night stand if you have no commitment with a woman who has a higher body count.

00:05:59.980 I want to get to the point here because I think that this is just the larger point if you're a woman and you're going to switch this off. 0.86

00:06:05.440 The important thing to note is that many heterosexual men, biologically, it is hard-coded into their sexuality.

00:06:13.540 And I think this is what is missed by people.

00:06:15.960 They think it's a choice.

00:06:17.700 If I could choose to not care that a woman had a high body count, it is not that it's an acculturation thing.

00:06:23.880 It is the motivation for this being biologically hard-coded in me is there.

00:06:27.980 And I think I'm the type of guy who has enough self-knowledge to be able to internalize when I'm doing something because it's been socialized into me.

00:06:38.540 People should probably notice with me, I really don't, I try to go against the grain of society almost as much as possible when I can.

00:06:45.320 I get great pleasure in doing that.

00:06:47.640 And so if this wasn't biologically hard-coded in me, I don't think I would feel it so strongly.

00:06:52.360 And here's where I'm saying, so if women are trying to get, okay, a guy right now who I feel is pretty honest with me on this show, he's telling me how much it matters.

00:07:02.540 I'll try to give you a curve of how much it matters because there's a few things that I think women miss with body count as well. 0.93

00:07:09.340 They think that any guy that they sleep with adds to their body count in the same way.

00:07:14.700 And that is just not true.

00:07:18.260 If you, if I was a girl and I know that she has been in multiple long-term monogamous relationships with guys, like, yes, she slept with like maybe four different guys, but she dated all of them for two or three years.

00:07:31.720 I've met them.

00:07:32.780 I like them and I respect them.

00:07:34.580 To me, she's really not that different in terms of attractiveness than a virgin.

00:07:39.260 I mean, okay, a virgin's wrong. 0.99

00:07:40.660 Let's say somebody who slept with two people. 1.00

00:07:41.940 Virgin's are like a whole other tier of attractiveness when you're talking about guys who are sensitive to this.

00:07:46.780 But if you go down from that, just one tier, there really isn't that much different between two and five when you're dealing with these sorts of women. 1.00

00:07:53.440 When a woman has slept with a guy who I look down on, that is-

00:07:59.080 Like someone you think is gross?

00:08:00.180 What do you mean look down on?

00:08:01.220 Can you elaborate on that? 1.00

00:08:02.680 I think it's gross, pathetic. 0.99

00:08:05.060 I think that they just play women. 0.99

00:08:06.660 I think that, you know-

00:08:08.120 Who you ideologically don't agree with?

00:08:09.840 Not ideologically don't agree with.

00:08:12.360 That I think is less, like low quality male.

00:08:15.500 So who you think reflects poorly upon the taste of the woman, maybe.

00:08:19.560 Yes.

00:08:20.080 But this could also be like a player.

00:08:22.060 Like if a guy is attractive, but he's, you know, kind of a player.

00:08:27.160 I would say that almost immediately for me, for women who are trying to get a feel of how much this matters for guys.

00:08:32.520 I would find them so unattractive, I would be unable to sleep with them.

00:08:37.220 I would certainly be unable to date them.

00:08:39.860 And I think that women don't understand the damage they take, even with a low body count, if it is with a hookup they had at a bar or otherwise disreputable men. 0.99

00:08:51.440 That women should be really, really sensitive to that.

00:08:55.620 And that once they enter that scene, often it's only that kind of guy that they can really date and guys that have, for whatever reason, no biological sensitivity to body count.

00:09:07.680 And I haven't seen studies done on this, but anecdotally from like me talking around men, my read is about 60 to 70% of men have a fairly high body count sensitivity.

00:09:20.300 And about 30 to 40% have very little to no body count sensitivity.

00:09:24.340 Interesting.

00:09:25.580 Okay, so this isn't as big of a deal then, because like actually quite a few men don't. 0.84

00:09:30.020 Yeah, well, and then there's guys like me that have such a high body count sensitivity that I cannot even masturbate to porn with real people in it. 0.91

00:09:38.160 Because I know that they have slept with lots of people and I find that disgusting.

00:09:41.020 So I guess it's a lot like pretty much any arousal or aversion pathway for like what we've seen in the research that both other people have done and that you've done in writing The Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality, that there is quite some variation.

00:09:55.020 That some people are like super, super turned on by something.

00:09:58.480 Some people don't really care at all, et cetera.

00:10:00.240 Well, and then it has a normal distribution within it.

00:10:03.880 So there was some studies done, and the weird thing is it's like they've been wiped from Google.

00:10:08.700 Somebody pointed out recently, they're like, I've heard this before, and I went and I tried to find it, and I wasn't able to find it.

00:10:14.220 And then I went and I tried to find it, and I tried to find it with AI.

00:10:16.780 And I talked to other sexuality researchers I know, and I was like, do you remember these studies used to exist?

00:10:21.820 And they're like, yeah, studies used to exist.

00:10:23.340 And then we went and we looked and we couldn't find it.

00:10:24.780 So I don't know what happened.

00:10:26.100 It might be that they didn't fit the progressive ideal, and then somehow they got deleted from history, which sometimes happens if you're talking about like more obscure research that wasn't backed up in a lot of places.

00:10:34.800 But specifically what they showed was that as women sleep with more men, the amount of oxytocin that they produce while having sex decreases, which is important.

00:10:46.800 And it also showed the effects of this.

00:10:48.580 It showed that women who slept with more men felt less of an illogical, forced attraction to the man they're sleeping with.

00:10:58.260 And so this is a really important thing to note for like young girls or girls who are thinking about this decision, is the way that your body reacts to sex changes when you have lots of partners.

00:11:09.900 And we've talked about this on other shows.

00:11:11.780 We suspect that this is actually a polymorphic behavioral change.

00:11:16.600 So polymorphic changes, like genetic polymorphism, this is when you have something like a locus, right?

00:11:22.780 So a locus and a grasshopper are genetically the same thing.

00:11:26.060 But if you rub the back of a grasshopper's leg with a Q-tip, it actually begins to express its genes differently and transform its shape and its behavior patterns.

00:11:35.760 But you see these in, you know, mammals as well.

00:11:38.640 So like baboons at larger troop sizes, they change from like a matriarchal, I think it's like a matriarchal was like one social structure to patriarchal was like another social structure. 0.67

00:11:48.560 I can't remember exactly what it is.

00:11:49.820 But basically their entire social structure changes above certain populations or when they're in areas that have unusually high amounts of resources.

00:11:58.880 And we should expect that we likely have some similar sorts of like weird things within humanity.

00:12:04.260 Well, we know from anthropology that humans can organize themselves into either polygynous groups, that's one man, many women, or monogamous groups.

00:12:13.440 Those are the two primary types of groups.

00:12:15.640 Now, it's really a slider.

00:12:17.320 All monogamous groups are polygynous when you're talking about the wealthiest men in a culture.

00:12:20.440 As we say, the most monogamous culture today, when people think, well, what's like a tradcast? 0.67

00:12:27.040 What's the height of the tradcast empire, Louis XIV, right? 1.00

00:12:30.360 You know, so yeah, and he had a lot, a lot of women.

00:12:33.580 So it's important to note that it's always a slider, but, you know, it's mostly monogamous.

00:12:37.860 So this would allow for female biology to automatically adapt to her environment, even if she grew up in a monogamous tribe. 1.00

00:12:45.800 But that tribe was like raided and she was captured by a tribe that now used her as like a, you know, let's not get this demonetized. 0.63

00:12:53.540 So what it does is it prevents a woman from without her own willingness or without any sort of externality falling in love to somebody they're sleeping with.

00:13:05.540 But women, and I've seen this, I've slept with a lot of virgins, they automatically begin to form a really strong sort of love connection or love reaction to the first guy they sleep with.

00:13:14.580 And that this turns off as they sleep with more gods.

00:13:19.180 Now this can have a few negative effects.

00:13:21.060 One of the biggest negative effects happens when women want their later relationships to have the same spark as early relationships. 0.99

00:13:27.680 Or expect it.

00:13:28.480 So when they get ready to get married, they will discount new partners they've met because they don't have that same love connection that they felt with their original partners.

00:13:39.240 And they assume that that's not because these partners are, you know, that they've had more partners, but it's because that partner is not good, as good as the first one.

00:13:48.340 So they keep looking when instead they may have found a really great partner.

00:13:51.420 So yeah.

00:13:52.000 Yeah, that's a really negative thing.

00:13:53.500 But also keep in mind that, and this is important, that it can be good for a woman.

00:13:58.100 If a woman doesn't want to be illogically brainwashed by her biology into liking whoever she happens to randomly be sleeping with, this is actually really useful.

00:14:06.880 It's really useful for a woman who's sleeping around a lot, that this system turns off. 1.00

00:14:10.960 Yeah.

00:14:11.140 I mean, she'll be less, she's less likely to be manipulated or exploited by the people that she's sleeping with because they will have less emotional control over her. 1.00

00:14:18.760 Exactly.

00:14:20.040 Yes.

00:14:20.540 So it's a very good system, even within our modern context.

00:14:23.120 It can just cause problems when a woman expects to feel what she did with her early partners, with later partners.

00:14:28.420 Well, yeah, that's why we find it disturbing that the research indicating this appears to be disappearing.

00:14:35.900 Because if women just know that this seems to be happening, then they can plan around it. 1.00

00:14:40.940 You know, this is a natural calculation that anyone can make.

00:14:45.860 And if they don't know about it, that's when the damage is done.

00:14:48.060 And it's something that anybody who sleeps with a lot of virgins would know.

00:14:51.280 This is a really unique thing with virgins.

00:14:53.160 They weirdly bond to you.

00:14:55.420 And a lot of women, you know, anecdotally, when I've mentioned this before, they've been like, yeah, that did happen to me was my first partner.

00:15:00.740 Or my first two partners or something like that.

00:15:03.440 And so this is something that you're actually losing when you sleep with a lot of people.

00:15:07.280 And it's something that males, it's just not a system that seems to exist in males.

00:15:11.120 Males do not like automatically fall in love with people they're sleeping with.

00:15:14.640 And that is unfortunate.

00:15:17.920 You know, it's unfortunate in that it is unfair.

00:15:22.360 But it is worth keeping in mind.

00:15:23.820 I mean, both in terms of men, in terms of how they're rating their partners, and in terms of women.

00:15:27.280 But, you know, to decide as a woman growing up in our society, I'm just not going to sleep with anyone because of how it hurts my market value.

00:15:34.460 When we say market value, you know, what we mean by this is the quality of man that she can get with the understanding that market value changes based on individuals.

00:15:45.260 So I'll put it this way.

00:15:46.380 A fish, when I go to a grocery store, can have a market value.

00:15:48.860 That's like what the average customer is going to pay for it, right?

00:15:51.500 But then some individuals might just have really like that type of fish, and they'll pay a lot more for it.

00:15:56.320 When you say market value, you're not saying this is the absolute value the person has.

00:15:59.960 They can do some huckstering and get a sweeter deal.

00:16:03.260 But just talking market value here goes down.

00:16:06.620 And is that worth it to me when I consider the dangers of being sexually inexperienced as a female and trying to secure a partner?

00:16:15.740 A lot of men, especially in the early days, you know, they won't even consider you unless you sleep with them by like date three or four.

00:16:21.780 You know, they and this can this can really hurt your ability to sort of learn how to date and stuff like that.

00:16:26.680 Right.

00:16:27.340 I mean, I think it's still doable, but it's difficult.

00:16:29.960 And another thing that women really have to worry about is guys signaling that they're interested in a longer term relationship than they actually are because they want to date, because they want sex.

00:16:40.500 And this is really a difficult thing to navigate as a girl.

00:16:44.640 I think that the best strategy around it, because, you know, women, as we say, the sex marketplace and the marriage marketplace are two very different things. 0.71

00:16:53.520 And women are always more valued on the sex marketplace than the marriage marketplace. 1.00

00:16:56.540 And so they can begin to conflate their value on the sex marketplace with their value on the marriage marketplace, where it's much lower.

00:17:02.320 And guys are the inverse history.

00:17:05.000 They're more valued on the marriage marketplace than on the sex marketplace. 0.97

00:17:07.680 And so guys can benefit by pretending like they're interested in marriage or longer term relationships than they actually are.

00:17:13.000 And through that, get higher quality sexual partners than they would otherwise be able to get.

00:17:17.400 And it is very difficult for women in our current society to filter here. 1.00

00:17:21.320 The core ways to filter is, you know, Facebook official public signaling of your relationship before you engage with someone sexually.

00:17:28.360 This is if you're not just going to wait until marriage, which is very difficult, I think, to do if you're unless you're only dating was in like really religious communities.

00:17:37.600 And then the second strategy, and I think this is really important, is to note, does the guy seem to be really vetting you as a long term partner?

00:17:46.580 So if weirdly the guy has all the same beliefs about the world that you have, he's probably just mirroring your beliefs.

00:17:53.860 It should be a massive red flag.

00:17:56.280 Like, if the guy disagrees with you in areas and is willing to sort of debate those open and honestly and looks, that's a sign that he's probably not just using you for sex.

00:18:07.020 Yeah, genuine disagreements or, hey, I want kids and I know you don't want kids.

00:18:11.280 That kind of stuff showing up is probably a good sign in terms of genuine interest and commitment.

00:18:15.840 Well, this is a big problem with searching for partners in sort of like feminist, white nighty ecosystems. 1.00

00:18:21.260 Is that men in these ecosystems are usually just signaling.

00:18:24.520 I mean, most of them don't want to marry anyway, you know, because they're on the progressive side.

00:18:27.920 And they're usually just signaling aligned ideology for sex, which means that if you are on the conservative side of things, because women are less on the conservative side of things, regardless, it's going to be really hard to find women. 0.72

00:18:39.980 Yeah.

00:18:40.880 Unless you're in a hard conservative community where typically women outnumber men. 0.98

00:18:44.500 Yeah.

00:18:44.700 So by that, what I mean is if you're in a hard religious community, women typically outnumber men, where if you're in like the conservative secular community, usually men just dramatically outnumber women.

00:18:54.920 To the extent.

00:18:55.320 I've heard, it's sort of unrelated.

00:18:57.140 I've heard some conversations among women where they view male body count very negatively.

00:19:03.280 Do you think that that's a real thing or do you think it's performative because they're just thinking that's not fair that men view.

00:19:09.020 Oh, it's obviously performative.

00:19:10.720 Actually, there's studies on this.

00:19:12.040 So you can look women. 1.00

00:19:13.940 Great studies.

00:19:14.780 If you if you take men and you have women choose between a man with a wedding ring and a man without a wedding ring, they'll choose the man with the wedding ring. 0.92

00:19:24.180 There's lots of studies.

00:19:25.300 But maybe men with with who are in committed relationships have lower body counts because they're in committed relationships.

00:19:30.460 Maybe.

00:19:31.120 But just generally what you see is women will go after men who appear to already be in relationships over men who appear to not be in relationships, which to me signals the exact inverse of what you're talking about.

00:19:44.540 Whereas with men, you would very rarely see this outside of a few fetishes or paraphilias, you know, which Trump seemed to have one of those from stories about him where he would try to get his friends' wives to sleep with him.

00:19:56.760 I can't imagine it.

00:19:59.120 Look, I like Trump politically, but as a human being, I can't imagine betraying my friends that way.

00:20:06.460 I take that really seriously.

00:20:08.440 I hear about that in fiction, though, or like in history.

00:20:11.340 I wonder if that's just like a trope.

00:20:12.760 Well, no, I find the idea of sleeping with like the wives of people who I dislike really hot. 0.88

00:20:18.500 Like, that's cool. 0.89

00:20:19.460 But I would find the idea of an ally who has put their trust in me really uncool and gross and not fun.

00:20:27.680 But yeah, we were talking about male body counts of women.

00:20:29.860 Yeah.

00:20:30.260 So, no, I don't think so.

00:20:31.520 I think it's all performative.

00:20:32.280 And I can also say as somebody who has been out there over the course of the time that I was trying to get women to sleep with me, as my body count rose,

00:20:40.880 it got easier to get women to sleep with me, not harder. 0.99

00:20:44.880 And I guess you were never, you never hid the fact that you had a high body count.

00:20:49.500 No, no.

00:20:50.240 Of anything, I bragged about it.

00:20:51.340 It actually got, I'd say, pretty dramatically easier after you get past like 10 to 20 people.

00:20:58.000 And then after that point, no, but also, you know, I'm learning, I'm getting better at it after that.

00:21:03.940 I'm developing more confidence.

00:21:05.160 And I suspect that part of it could even be hormonal, like just knowledge of, I don't know.

00:21:11.340 So it could be that I'm giving something off because I have a high body count, because like my brain thinks, oh, you're alpha of this area.

00:21:18.240 Yeah, that is offsetting whatever logical thing these women have in their head that makes them think that they don't like men with high body counts. 1.00

00:21:27.240 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:21:28.860 Which is really interesting.

00:21:30.680 And I find that really surprising.

00:21:32.540 But another thing to note about this as a man, if you're going out there and you're having a high body count,

00:21:37.120 this also means that, remember I said not all men damage your body count the same way with other guys?

00:21:43.100 A guy like me probably damaged women's body counts in the perception of other guys uniquely highly because I was able to sleep around so much.

00:21:51.280 But, you know, whatever.

00:21:55.120 Most of these were when I was younger, you know, progressive, college girl type people, stuff like that.

00:21:59.920 But I'd also say that the type of relationship I had with the girls, and this might also be the case for other guys,

00:22:05.340 is with the ones who I liked, I did have longer relationships with.

00:22:08.880 And I think me as an outsider, that would damage my perception of that stack on her body count more.

00:22:14.740 Just any period of sexual experimentation, I think, would really highly damage my, well, that's what they call it, finding themselves, whatever you want to call it.

00:22:24.440 Yeah.

00:22:26.620 What is your sort of summation?

00:22:28.420 If you were going to give advice to your daughters on this, if you were going to give advice to our daughters?

00:22:34.500 You know, in general, I would just be like, it's not worth it.

00:22:37.880 Don't bother.

00:22:38.780 But I think it really depends on their personalities. 0.99

00:22:40.860 You know, if we finally have a daughter with a high sex drive, like, it's a really dumb thing to be like, yeah, probably shouldn't have sex. 0.98

00:22:46.900 Like, the cost is really high. 0.75

00:22:48.120 We should be really clear about what we believe the tradeoffs to be, given the evidence that we've been exposed to.

00:22:53.940 Well, here's a question, because I think this is interesting to me.

00:22:56.740 Would I consider it a high, like, in addition to a woman's body count, if she had used her sexuality to make money off of men without having sex with them? 0.99

00:23:05.400 Think OnlyFans or something like that, right?

00:23:07.620 Otherwise, they're a virgin, but they've used OnlyFans.

00:23:10.980 Yeah, huh.

00:23:11.800 I think if they were a pure virgin, it wouldn't hurt their value that much to me.

00:23:16.240 If, however...

00:23:17.200 If people have seen everything.

00:23:19.680 Yeah, I suppose only if they were also really popular.

00:23:24.000 If they were an unsuccessful OnlyFans.

00:23:26.100 If they had done it unsuccessfully, then I would think, well, you were judged by the community to be pointless.

00:23:32.540 But if they were judged successfully, and they were widely desired, but had never slept with anyone, I'd consider that probably about the same as being a virgin.

00:23:40.640 Not exactly the same, but probably about the same.

00:23:42.620 But if they had 5 body count or, like, 10 body count, like a medium level body count, but they also did that, I'd consider it probably...

00:23:50.640 I don't know, it just wouldn't matter that much.

00:23:52.440 It matters a little, like, it would matter more to me then, but it's certainly not the same as racking up an IRL body count.

00:23:59.500 However, I guess I would take a woman who said that she had, like, a 5 or 10 body count, but also used OnlyFans as probably lying, and she probably has a much higher body count than that. 0.99

00:24:09.780 It's just sort of a signal when the woman isn't otherwise, like, known as being chased, that the body count, the real body count, is likely higher than they're telling you.

00:24:20.000 Yeah, that's fair.

00:24:21.420 And I also think that women think, oh, head doesn't count. Head is exactly the same from a body count perspective. 1.00

00:24:26.340 Totally. Yeah, totally agree.

00:24:28.940 I don't know why a woman would think that it wouldn't count. I guess it's, like, brain magic. 1.00

00:24:35.480 Mormons don't count it, so... 0.99

00:24:37.780 It's a position to them, which is actually kind of worse than even just regular sex. 0.91

00:24:44.640 Actually, one of the...

00:24:45.840 I heard a story.

00:24:47.200 We had a friend in school...

00:24:49.200 Remember this?

00:24:49.920 I won't name who said it, but you'll recognize the story as soon as I said it.

00:24:52.660 So her roommate would do this, where she would bring over guys and say, you know, eat me out, or whatever. 1.00

00:24:58.540 They'd be into her, and they'd do it. 1.00

00:25:00.460 And then as soon as she got herself off, she'd be like, okay, fuck off. 1.00

00:25:02.960 It's horrible. I don't remember who this is, but it's better that I don't, because that's horrible. 1.00

00:25:08.340 But I think as a guy, I wouldn't consider that an addition to a body count.

00:25:11.320 Because she's not submitting to them, she's using them. 0.91

00:25:14.080 And I'm like, okay, whatever.

00:25:15.000 These guys are not the same relationship that I have with you.

00:25:18.340 These guys are beneath you.

00:25:19.700 And I think that that's also why I wouldn't consider it additions to a body count something like OnlyFans.

00:25:24.540 Now, I don't know how representative I am of the average guy.

00:25:26.940 I'm just trying to give as honest as a perspective of one guy who actually cares about this as possible.

00:25:33.120 So women can begin to calibrate as they think about this increasingly new and different sexual landscape that we're dealing with. 1.00

00:25:42.120 Yeah.

00:25:42.460 Which is really interesting.

00:25:43.360 I mean, there's some things I just couldn't do.

00:25:44.800 Yeah, continue.

00:25:46.680 Okay, so OnlyFans.

00:25:49.980 Okay if you're successful. 0.99

00:25:51.640 Pathetic if you're not. 0.99

00:25:53.220 Actual sex totally counts. 1.00

00:25:54.740 Head totally counts.

00:25:55.620 Being eaten out but only using people doesn't count. 0.69

00:25:59.480 So I guess like being a dominatrix professionally, you would say doesn't count as long as you're not having sex.

00:26:05.060 Yeah?

00:26:05.900 Yeah.

00:26:06.500 Okay.

00:26:07.620 Okay.

00:26:08.140 What I'm talking about here is none of this is like the way I'm socially conditioned.

00:26:12.180 I'm just saying here like what seems to trigger my biological this body count matters instinct.

00:26:17.900 Yeah.

00:26:18.180 Which I imagine is probably pretty similar to many other guys.

00:26:20.900 Yeah, totally.

00:26:21.840 Yeah, I imagine this.

00:26:23.120 I mean, it makes sense because also what you're looking at is I think it's a very instinctual dislike of the idea of finding yourself raising and using your resources on a child that is not biologically yours.

00:26:37.900 Yeah.

00:26:38.300 And the scenarios you're describing in which it's not really a problem are not scenarios in which a woman would be impregnated by another guy.

00:26:47.380 So.

00:26:48.260 Yeah.

00:26:48.700 Pretty strange.

00:26:49.120 The one counterexample to this would be trans women, which for whatever reason my body just instinctually recognizes as being the sexual equivalent of a woman who has slept with a really, really, really large number of guys. 0.87

00:27:03.340 Almost sort of a maxed out body count in terms of the instinctual response I get to them.

00:27:08.900 And obviously this, if other guys have this same reaction, it would partially explain why dating is so much harder for trans women.

00:27:16.160 But then this actually brings a point when women are like, yeah, I slept with him, but I didn't have an emotional connection with him. 0.99

00:27:22.060 That is a thousand times worse.

00:27:24.380 That's, yeah, that almost means you're more likely as the male partner to be raising a child that is not yours because apparently they just do not care.

00:27:31.460 Yes, I didn't have an emotion.

00:27:33.360 If somebody cheated on me, I would a thousand times prefer they're like, well, I cheated on you because I had a strong emotional connection with him.

00:27:40.520 Not, I cheated on you, but I didn't have an emotional connection with him.

00:27:44.040 I'd be like, that is so much worse than the alternative.

00:27:46.740 Really bad.

00:27:47.380 Really bad.

00:27:48.880 Yeah.

00:27:49.340 Yeah, that all makes sense.

00:27:50.360 Oh, this is, I guess, some pretty valuable stuff.

00:27:54.380 Maybe instead of having the talk with our daughters, we can just send them to this video.

00:27:58.820 Yeah.

00:27:58.980 And they can decide whether or not to, you know what, actually, we'll just send it to their friends and then their friends will tell them because they don't want to hear it from us.

00:28:04.820 You know, that's just gross.

00:28:06.520 So we have a plan here.

00:28:08.480 Glad we got this recorded.

00:28:10.320 Good game.

00:28:11.340 I love you, Malcolm.

00:28:12.000 You're amazing.

00:28:13.300 Oh, you're the best.

Based Camp - November 01, 2023

Does Body Count Really Matter？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript