Based Camp - Furries & Omegaverse： Why Are They So Popular？

00:00:00.000 you're too late our spread has already begun the planet will fall just like

00:00:06.780 every other before it I understand you were a human once but you were once

00:00:14.880 called don't you say that name don't you say it

00:00:18.060 I'm strong fang now first of my name my power knows no bounds I can even almost

00:00:26.240 blow myself watch hello Simone today we are going to do a deep dive into furries

00:00:34.760 because recently I came across some statistics on furries that dramatically

00:00:39.260 changed my conception of the phenomenon the Chicago Tribune 19 people were

00:00:44.540 hospitalized at a furry convention in Illinois after what's being called an

00:00:51.020 intentional lake of chlorine what's a furry convention did I get that really

00:00:55.580 there gosh okay officials were called when I strong over the chlorine's what

00:01:01.880 spread

00:01:07.460 I think they had to evacuate the building and everything set the hotel guests along

00:01:13.100 with convention attendees into the cold night many still dressed in their furry

00:01:17.480 furry costumes we have a lot of costumers out here with big fluffy costumes that 0.80

00:01:23.360 will keep people warm so at this point we're not at all worried so we've been

00:01:27.440 pulling people into a cut like a cuddle to like warm this baby no thank you thank

00:01:32.720 you and giving her our jackets thank you yes we just told Mika what the

00:01:37.400 convention was about she's costumes kept everybody warm was the good news the

00:01:41.880 hotel where are you going contaminated hey guests came back come back at 4 a.m.

00:01:45.840 please still come back the matter is a criminal could you check could you check

00:01:49.740 on Mika see if she's okay she's over there somewhere okay we talked about them

00:01:54.120 before in like super early episodes but I'm really glad to be coming back to it

00:01:58.440 especially after how much fun we had doing the weird subcultures episode focus on

00:02:03.060 which is steal people's penises here check out that episode because now there's a new 1.00

00:02:08.940 fear that pronatalists are stealing people's penises in Africa and and some 1.00

00:02:13.820 people might be like why would I engage in sort of what they may see as weird 0.98

00:02:20.320 fetish territory right like why is it important to understand this stuff as our

00:02:26.000 society increasingly descends into more you could say moral degeneracy and there

00:02:31.140 are a number of reasons probably the biggest is if you have kids stuff like this is

00:02:36.600 going to have a very different role in their life than it had in your life

00:02:40.200 because what furries fundamentally represent for a lot of people is the idea

00:02:46.120 that they can portray a different and pseudonymous personality and build

00:02:52.760 relationships around the pseudonymous personality the problem being is that

00:02:57.520 fursuits cost ten thousand dollars well yeah like you know I'd say like what does it

00:03:03.560 say here between two and ten thousand dollars so furries are funnily pretty

00:03:08.260 loaded the ones who like get super into it

00:03:10.640 this was something came up at last year's natal con that when we were talking about

00:03:16.120 well what segments of the population are otherwise socially isolated but really

00:03:21.200 competent aside from autists because everyone had realized that the conference 1.00

00:03:25.620 was disproportionately autistic and that pronatalist groups should probably target 0.89

00:03:29.880 high competence high high wealth people and a very prominent person on twitter who

00:03:36.200 I'm not going to name because it was you know we want to respect chaff and mouse rules 1.00

00:03:39.280 pointed out that furries are just like typically really put together competent people with a lot

00:03:44.920 of money to your point those costumes are not cheap well actually this brings a a thing where the

00:03:51.120 stereotype of the furry differentiates pretty heavily when you're talking about like the every furry 1.00

00:03:56.680 which is to say that the stereotype of the furry is that they are incredibly socially bad like stupid 0.99

00:04:04.360 people they are incompetent they are when the question like the furcon people yeah so the furcon 0.99

00:04:10.840 people and this is important to understand is this is a stereotype that will develop around any community

00:04:16.600 that doesn't have high barriers to entry because individuals who are expelled from all other

00:04:22.680 communities begin to spend an increasing amount of time with that community which creates this

00:04:29.160 stereotype so whether it is furries or train collectors or people who go to dog shows or

00:04:34.840 any of that you're going to begin to develop this stereotype whereas the stereotype of put together

00:04:40.840 are typically communities that have like a a cost barrier to entry like some amount of money barrier to

00:04:45.240 entry which furries do to some extent or they're communities that have some other barrier to

00:04:49.800 entry like one of the things that i always pointed out is neuroscientists are unusually attractive like

00:04:55.160 people who get when i was in getting like neuroscience degrees it was one of the most like attractive on

00:04:59.480 average degrees at the school and this was because it was harder to get into than other degrees the

00:05:04.360 people in it were more put together because it was harder to get into than the other programs

00:05:08.120 and that was a program i went to this way i mentioned it and i i think that that defies a lot of the

00:05:12.440 stereotypes there so i think what you might be seeing with your friend here who's saying this

00:05:16.920 is some sub culture of furries that likely has a barrier to entry that he is familiar with and

00:05:23.480 not maybe the general furry community but because furries there there's definitely mega cringe

00:05:31.240 throughout the furry community oh for sure yes that's true the other thing i'd point out is

00:05:36.360 well i mean let's also point out though there is also mega cringe throughout the autistic community so 0.92

00:05:41.000 there's some kind of situation going on right so the pseudonymous identity is going to become

00:05:47.640 increasingly inexpensive to access for the next generation because of a vr online spaces and the

00:05:53.960 amount of people who have their primary social network in an online environment and you as a parent can

00:06:00.120 say well my kids shouldn't have that and i'm like yeah but did you still do the covered lockdowns did you

00:06:06.280 still you know like the the world today has made it systemically difficult for many kids to build

00:06:12.040 friendships outside of offline environments and the friendships they're going to build was in online

00:06:17.800 environments are often going to be better matched to their interests because they get to choose sub

00:06:22.440 interest communities from any group in the world instead of the people who happen to be in their church

00:06:27.240 group or their school and so if you do not understand these communities

00:06:36.520 this this cannot be where it all started anyone would admit she's pretty hot it's a totally normal reaction 1.00

00:06:44.440 that doesn't make me a furry

00:06:45.880 that doesn't make me a furry

00:06:55.880 Lola was the beginning but she's not the source she merely awakened what already worked in the depths of

00:07:02.280 our humanity you want our existence to have an easy answer something you can point to and stop

00:07:09.800 but there is no stopping us so long as there are outcasts with no dad to play catch with or lonely

00:07:18.200 homeschooled boys with internet connections or asians and so if you do not understand these communities

00:07:26.280 for example i mentioned the parent who thought that their daughter had gotten involved with a very

00:07:32.520 wholesome group and a very studious group because she really liked writing fan fictions now and i was like

00:07:38.440 oh no you should probably like educate yourself on fan fiction communities

00:07:58.440 and and it's the same with like even if you're not into this stuff it's the same of the analogy that

00:08:03.160 we've used before is in the past you could just avoid degeneracy and now it's a bit like that

00:08:08.040 scene from abyss where you know you you can't just avoid water anymore if you don't give your kids

00:08:15.320 an internet connection and then they grow up and they interact with the internet for the first time

00:08:19.160 without any prior experience or annotation you are basically throwing a baby into the deep end of the

00:08:25.160 pool but when you do give your kids the internet that place is such a suspool these days it is basically

00:08:32.200 like this scene but with degeneracy instead of water fluid breathing system we just got them anyway

00:08:38.680 you breathe liquid so you can't get compressed the pressure doesn't get you check this out can i borrow 0.54

00:08:42.520 your rat what are you doing the killer it's okay i've done this myself oh man he's gonna be fine look 0.94

00:08:47.480 she's freaking out just going through a normal adjustment period she's gonna drown he's taking the 1.00

00:08:51.960 fluid into his lungs so there's a bit of anxiety here damn rats breathing that shit that is the 1.00

00:08:59.880 goddamn best thing i ever saw see the fluid's harder to push in and out than air it's it's a little more 0.99

00:09:04.600 work to breathe she's digging it she's doing it she ain't digging it another thing i'd note here is 0.96

00:09:11.560 that if you see furries as a cultural anathema as a phenomenon in terms of drawing people in

00:09:16.840 i would encourage you to do any level of anthropological research or research into

00:09:21.480 historic religions or traditions it's probably one of the most persistent reoccurring traditions

00:09:27.320 across cultures whether you're talking about the ancient egyptians or the vikings or the like the

00:09:32.360 vikings in their bear costumes where they take on bear personas or you know african tribes or native

00:09:37.800 american tribes or taking we've said it before and we'll say it again trad wives aren't trad furries are 1.00

00:09:44.920 trad furries are dramatically more what if you just mean common in traditional settings but yes

00:09:51.080 furries are found voluminously throughout history and i'd actually say that our culture may be unique

00:09:58.440 in not having celebrations that are culturally normative in which individuals take on pseudonymous

00:10:06.440 animal identities or answer answer anthropological identities right we're the exception yeah yeah we're the

00:10:13.560 exception we're the weirdos we're the freaks not but i will note that cultures that shy away from

00:10:20.680 this sort of practice seem to out-compete the cultures that don't that's important to know that

00:10:25.000 like while monogamy is actually rarer in a like total cultural standpoint monogamous cultures tend to

00:10:30.120 out-compete non-monogamous cultures and i think it's the same potentially with this but we can get into

00:10:34.760 some reasons why that may be the case uh but the larger point here i'm making is a lot of people

00:10:40.840 who are like well my kids just will never be tempted or exposed to these communities or never

00:10:47.560 have to engage with these communities and i'm like like what are you basing that on and they're like

00:10:52.680 well when i grew up i wasn't i was like were you like obsessively online growing up in the way your

00:10:57.720 kids are because i can tell you anyone who was obsessively online like myself even you know 20 years

00:11:03.080 ago you were exposed to furries from almost day one like they have been part of the digital native

00:11:09.400 environment for a very long time oh yeah and also for us we need to be particularly focused on this

00:11:16.680 because we have autistic children and furries are overwhelmingly autistic oh yes 0.93

00:11:21.960 now furries or a lot of things on furries will tell you that furries are not like a predominantly

00:11:33.080 sexual thing right like they're like this isn't like a sex thing you know this is like about art

00:11:37.320 and like identity and everything like that the problem is is furries are a not sex thing is the same

00:11:45.400 way in being gay is not a sex thing it's like yeah okay you might live 98 of your life not having gay 0.99

00:11:54.280 sex but that doesn't mean that being gay isn't predominantly a sex thing you know you you it's 0.99

00:12:00.440 like saying being in a gay marriage isn't predominantly a sex thing because like most of 0.98

00:12:04.520 what you're doing is like raising a kid or like making meals or having conversations with each other

00:12:09.480 but it's like yeah but the that is still like a you know so i'll get to the stat here that really

00:12:15.800 shocked me on this so in a study titled the furry phenomenon characterizing sexual orientation sexual

00:12:21.400 motivation and erotic target identity inversions in male furries um so they surveyed 334 male furries

00:12:28.360 recruited around the internet um and a large majority reported non-heterosexual identities 84

00:12:36.120 and some degree of sexual motivation for being a furry 99 so only one percent of furries at least

00:12:46.760 male furries are not reporting a degree of sexual motivation for engaging with the community

00:12:52.200 it's very similar to like the whole trans thing where it's like if you have like we had a lot of

00:12:57.320 trans friends before like and we had deep conversations with about this stuff before coming out as potentially

00:13:04.600 like trans skeptic which was quite a coming out of the closet for us right but we still have a lot

00:13:09.240 of them as friends but not as many or they're not going to be as open with us as they used to be

00:13:12.920 but in the conversations where they were very open with us one of the things we would always hear is

00:13:17.000 they're like i mean you know for like public relations like the party line is this isn't a sex thing but

00:13:22.840 like it's a sex thing at least in part you remember hearing that simone right or yes and they're like

00:13:29.080 and this is why like within the community they'll like try to target and shame individuals who admit

00:13:33.880 this to prevent them and one of the ones we were talking to was even talking about how this happens

00:13:39.400 they're like oh yeah like you're allowed to have these conversations in private with other trans

00:13:43.320 people but you can't have them in public and i get why they would do that like yeah it totally makes

00:13:48.120 sense right you know but anyway to continue here the oh and by the way if you're like oh furries

00:13:54.120 a small population so we were looking at like the amount that consume active like pornography

00:13:58.440 related to furry stuff in our book which is around six percent of the u.s population this is around the

00:14:02.760 same amount that consume uh tentacle porn so to give you an idea of how big that is that's roughly

00:14:08.600 equal to the size of the smallest 15 u.s states combined okay wow yeah okay so big yeah a sizable

00:14:21.400 number of people which is another reason why this should not be stigmatized i'm okay with stigmatizing

00:14:27.160 it templar

00:14:31.800 when you called us anal moles pet o files and fur gets that was very hurtful now say you're sorry

00:14:45.480 i'm okay with stigmatizing it look it's it's it's we can talk about whether or not it should be

00:14:49.960 stigmatized i think that's something we can close with here oh the other thing that we're going to

00:14:54.040 talk about at the end here i forgot to mention this at the beginning and the other thing we're

00:14:57.480 going to mention in this is go into the omega verse boy yeah and talk about what might be going on

00:15:02.200 there and like the underlying mechanisms that could be leading to these arousal patterns yeah

00:15:08.200 okay next study here furry sexuality conditioned fetishes a better explanation than erotic target

00:15:15.320 identity inversion and in this they said as a result where furry sexuality due to a conditioned

00:15:22.360 fetish a trend towards ambivalence about the sex of both human and partner might be expected to some

00:15:28.520 extent in contrast hue and bailey 2019 expected that due to etii males who desired partners who were

00:15:37.720 female furry characters their erotic targets would also desire female furry characters themselves their 0.99

00:15:43.960 identity of the 307 participants included in table four this was the case for four individuals one

00:15:52.200 this compares to 157 individuals 51 who were ambivalent about both their own sex and their

00:15:58.760 partner sex as furry characters to some degree as might be expected if the erotic focus was on a fetish

00:16:05.160 to some degree now that's fascinating to me 51 of people who are furries do not care about the gender

00:16:14.360 that they are presenting as a furry or the gender their partner as a furry is presenting as regardless of

00:16:21.400 their sexual identity although keep in mind that 87 consider themselves as some form of lgbt thoughts yeah it's 0.86

00:16:29.240 almost as though there's like a different orientation like you're gay straight or into animals you know 0.83

00:16:38.280 as we point out like the actual levers in all of this are way more complicated yeah you can look at our

00:16:43.160 video like uh my husband's not gay um where we talk about uh like same-sex attracted men and heterosexual

00:16:49.160 relationships of which i am not one i don't many people like assume things from the title of the video

00:16:54.280 without watching it but what we point out in that video is that the way that sexuality actually

00:17:00.440 manifests and arousal patterns actually manifest is so discordant from the idea of a predominant gay

00:17:07.160 straight dichotomy that it is sort of pointless to even use the words gay bi or straight it's better 1.00

00:17:14.040 just to point out the things that arouse you i.e you know the secondary female sex characteristics primary 1.00

00:17:20.280 sex it's female sex characteristics and point out the things that disgust you which we argue are also 1.00

00:17:24.840 on this arousal spectrum so just quickly we argue arousal works from in relation to any specific

00:17:31.640 target stimuli a response that goes from arousal to extreme disgust with the neutral response not

00:17:38.920 being you know zero right you know what i mean it is zero but then you can get a negative quoted response

00:17:43.560 here so another study here that i found really interesting this is furries a to z answer for morphism to zoo of

00:17:50.600 zoiformism in this research they surveyed both furries and non-furry individuals attending a

00:17:56.760 furry convention and a comparison group of college students furries commonly indicated dragons and

00:18:03.000 various canine and feline species as their alternate species none reported a non-human primate identity

00:18:09.880 i thought that was pretty interesting actually how rare non-human primates are and i'll get to a chart that

00:18:14.200 goes into this in more detail that is interesting huh i never thought about that why are there no

00:18:20.120 ape or monkey furries right actually i won't read the full of this because we get better data in just

00:18:27.080 a second we'll get to the point that this survey was going to point out is a lot of furries consider

00:18:30.600 themselves not fully human but i i instead here now want to get to a graph of what furries choose as

00:18:38.040 their fursonas because a huge chunk of furries nearly half of furries report to only having one

00:18:44.040 fursona which is pretty strong so a lot of furries only have like one identity they choose and then

00:18:49.480 outside of that even more furries only have one species they're focused on and the top fursona

00:18:54.440 species are wolves 19 to 20 dragons 13 to 16 foxes 15 to 16 dogs 10 to 12 and cats this includes domestic

00:19:04.200 and big cats 14 to 16 and this chart here has a bit different with dragon being further down this just

00:19:12.440 the the presence of a dragon is so confounding for me because you could kind of guess maybe if this is a

00:19:21.880 sex thing it's some kind of orientation around body hair like the more body hair something is or just

00:19:28.040 the more primal something is like that you know they're just the and and mammals may seem to exhibit

00:19:34.280 that more but dragons are reptiles and they're not even real animals what what is happening

00:19:41.880 we don't even know how they behave actually so this gets even weirder for a theory that i was

00:19:47.560 fairly certain of i thought was driving a lot of people to the furry fandom what was your theory

00:19:51.800 so my theory was that it was around super normal stimuli tied to dominance and submission

00:19:57.880 so specifically we argue in our book the pragmatist guide to sexuality that it appears that in humans the

00:20:05.640 displays that are meant to signal dominance and submission would have borrowed from our arousal

00:20:10.520 system because we see this in most social animals uh specifically social mammals so for example dogs

00:20:16.840 when they are signaling submission to another dog they will like prepare to be mounted right like

00:20:21.400 it's a sexual symbol because the system evolution is a cheap programmer it'll just borrow other systems 0.61

00:20:26.680 and when you get reverse gender dynamics like in spotted hyena where females are dominant uh females 0.91

00:20:32.440 actually have a pseudo penis and they will get an erection to show submission and males get an erection 0.98

00:20:38.120 to show submission in in spotted hyenas which i found very interesting but the point being is that we 0.97

00:20:43.480 likely being social mammals borrowed these systems and then women preferred dominant partners because 1.00

00:20:51.560 that was probably a better sign of their ability to care for her offspring and their ability to

00:20:57.320 like like in humans as a woman you can tell more about the fitness of an individual by their position 1.00

00:21:03.480 within the tribe than you can tell by what they look like um which is why women would have cued really

00:21:09.160 strongly to dominance and submission as their primary cues for arousal patterns um well anyway

00:21:16.200 within humans there is only so much dominance or submission you can show now there's a concept

00:21:21.800 called a super normal stimuli it's something like if i'm a bird and i was evolutionarily coded to sit on

00:21:27.960 like blue round things and that's how evolution got me to sit on my eggs and you put like a big blue

00:21:33.160 ball next to it that's like bigger than an egg it could ever have it will choose to sit on the big blue

00:21:37.400 ball they didn't have an evolutionary reason to have some sort of like negative or canceling out

00:21:42.200 response to big blue balls right well we likely didn't have that many evolutionary things that

00:21:49.400 were meant to cancel out super normal dominance or submissive displays and so if you're aroused by 0.91

00:21:55.320 submission are there higher forms of submission that you can engage in within a sexual or fantasy context

00:22:01.960 than just somebody having sex with you right and i think one of the evoked sets that people are

00:22:09.000 going to have here in the same way that like i point out when somebody wants like tender submission

00:22:15.480 right where they're like i want submission but i want to feel safe and protected i think this is where

00:22:20.440 the daddy dom little girl thing comes from yeah well and this is where pet play comes in but 0.97

00:22:25.720 furries and pet play people are super different yeah because we have so few evoked sets in our society of what

00:22:31.800 tender dominance looks like that for a lot of people all they can think of is dads and pet owners

00:22:37.400 and so they they then play out those roles well with furries i assume what might be happening more

00:22:42.360 frequently is predator and prey roles because predator and prey roles would be a good example

00:22:48.760 of a super normal dominant or submissive stimuli yeah i.e what's more dominant than a male hunting you

00:22:57.080 to have sex with you okay or in a society where like everything has to feel super egalitarian and

00:23:02.840 people don't even like admitting that social class exists then like you have to turn to animals

00:23:09.160 struggles to survive and eat each other to find those dynamics that you find sexually satisfying

00:23:14.600 that makes sense right so here's here's the evidence for this and here's the evidence against

00:23:19.800 this theory okay okay so the evidence against this theory i'll start with is that almost like

00:23:25.560 fursonas of typically submissive animals are incredibly rare or not submissive i i gotta say

00:23:31.640 of typical prey animals are very rare so you have to go quite down until you get to a bunny bunny is like

00:23:39.400 eights or ninths here here and and even then so if i just read like in order right you have wolf fox dog

00:23:49.160 big cat dragon mythical cat rodent rabbit so those two i guess i could in the prey category

00:23:55.320 i put in prey category reptile avian bear horse aquatic hyena skunk marsupial dinosaur deer

00:24:06.120 feline squirrel ferret canine insect feline comes that far down well i think they're breaking feline

00:24:15.400 out from cat you you saw they had big cat cat and feline here and i think

00:24:19.320 oh broadly cat like okay yeah strange oh so but i still feel that within species

00:24:29.080 you can have really yeah this is this is where i feel the opposite so if you look at because i've

00:24:34.680 watched some of these like youtube shows about books that are popular with with young people i

00:24:39.080 really got into this one about not i didn't read them i just read people talking about them like

00:24:43.160 reviews of it and they're so fun to listen to yes there's one about like cats or something it's

00:24:48.520 called like danger not danger cats what is it called do you know what i'm talking about

00:24:52.760 it's calling warrior warrior cats warrior cats warrior cats okay not to be confused with thunder

00:24:57.960 cats of our childhood and they got like 16 books in the series or something and there's all this

00:25:02.520 community drama and everything but like they've they've spawned like online environments where you can

00:25:07.400 play and like warrior cats environments and it's like an mmo sort of a role play thing like second

00:25:12.680 lifey right and they've got like people would pay like there's like one case somebody paying like a

00:25:17.720 hundred thousand dollars for like a warrior cat like drawn thing of it's weird okay like let's just

00:25:23.000 point it out that like there's a lot of people who write books in this space and i have explored what

00:25:27.320 are the themes in these books and dominance interspecies dominance and religious rituals

00:25:32.760 often featured very heavily in a lot of this furry stuff and this got me thinking oh so what they're

00:25:42.040 looking for is ritualized dominance and submission rituals which we don't have in our society there are

00:25:48.360 not really good ritualized dominance and submission rituals in human society outside of what you get

00:25:54.040 within like bdsm play but that doesn't feel i think for a lot of people like real it feels very artificial

00:26:00.440 and so that may be something that they're trying to cue through here okay so a less a less contrived

00:26:05.720 feeling of dominance and submission play yeah and we'll get to i think that that's what the omega verse

00:26:11.880 is about a lot as well oh that for sure yeah that much is that the omega verse is a very hierarchical

00:26:20.120 but also primal and it's drives society so it's hierarchical but it doesn't feel like it's arbitrarily so

00:26:28.440 which i think helps with the narrative and to make that stimuli like hit better right yeah well and

00:26:36.360 furries more broadly we've talked about this before but it is worth noting here what i think causes the

00:26:40.680 furry fetish especially the more extreme forms where people are quite anthropomorphized and like could

00:26:45.800 not be coded as human is that we likely i mean remember how i said like the birds would need a disgust

00:26:54.440 reaction to eggs that are too large right uh otherwise they'll just always sit on the big

00:26:59.720 blue ball of those exist in their environments um in the same way that human males for example

00:27:04.600 need a disgust reaction to other human males or they're going to end up sleeping with those other 0.89

00:27:09.720 human males uh whereas human females may not need that disgust reaction as much because that's not 0.96

00:27:14.520 going to be as detrimental to them from like a disease perspective or something like that which is

00:27:19.240 actually what you see actually you also see this in the cultural slash memetic reinforcement

00:27:24.760 in that religious bans against lesbian sex is super super rare for example you don't have it in

00:27:32.600 christianity christianity nowhere in the bible is there a ban against women sleeping with other women

00:27:37.480 yet it's purely explicit about men not sleeping with other men and the disease transferal rate of these

00:27:43.720 two practices is incredibly differentiated very very very high risk of extreme disease transferal in

00:27:49.720 male to male sex very very very low list it risk in female to female sex there's just not that much

00:27:55.720 of a negative from it i actually decided to ask an ai this and it said that male male sex had an extremely

00:28:02.600 high risk of disease transference whereas it marked the disease transference rex risk of female female sex as 0.52

00:28:09.720 negligible but not impossible significantly less than heterosexual sex which is i think shows the

00:28:19.400 the incredible low risk of it and with that low risk very little cultural evolutionary pressure to

00:28:26.280 evolve an aversion to it or biological evolutionary pressure for women to have disgust at the idea of 1.00

00:28:32.680 having sex with another woman at as high a level as the disgust that most heterosexual men feel

00:28:39.320 towards the idea of having sex with another man and humans are definitely going to need a disgust 0.98

00:28:45.080 reaction to things that look like humans but are not humans here specifically i am thinking primates

00:28:53.640 right because we actually know with other primates crossbreeding happened like fairly late in human

00:28:58.440 evolution like well after like the hominid chain split off there was still degrees of crossbreeding

00:29:04.120 i think this might explain the incredibly rare rate of apes within the furry community is if the

00:29:10.680 thing that we had to learn to build a disgust reaction to was other non-human primates you would 0.90

00:29:17.080 have gotten a pretty strong signal from something that looked like an ape in terms of a disgust

00:29:21.720 reaction interesting so it's been kind of bred into us right but you should also have a disgust reaction to

00:29:27.960 non-humans more broadly right like right yeah because this is not going to produce successful 0.97

00:29:33.720 offspring don't try i'm going to read a section from the pragmatist guide to sexuality here but

00:29:39.000 before i do i need to bring you up to date with one of our theories on how a common fetish type

00:29:44.920 works earlier we mentioned that in our model for sexuality arousal doesn't go from arousal to no

00:29:51.640 response it goes to arousal to disgust with a neutral response in the center whenever something

00:29:59.400 seems to arouse the vast majority of the population it will disgust a small minority of the population

00:30:06.600 whenever something seems to disgust a large majority of the population it will arouse a small minority of

00:30:12.840 the population you do not see this with other strong emotions like say a fear of heights or a fear of

00:30:19.160 fire here what we are arguing is that the loudness of the arousal or disgust signal carries over so for

00:30:28.920 example if the majority of the population finds a dead body at like the highest level of disgust output

00:30:37.000 if an individual is born with a sign flip there they will see it with the highest level of arousal output

00:30:43.640 same with say sex with an animal if a normal person is going to have an extremely high

00:30:49.080 disgust output to that the small minority of the population that is interested in that is going

00:30:54.360 to have an extremely high arousal output to that fetishes that are the result of sign flips seem to

00:31:01.000 be characterized by being overwhelmingly male and being early in onset so if i want to read from our

00:31:08.200 book the pragmatist guide to sexuality on this one fetish group that may be tied to inverse systems that due to

00:31:13.640 as over representations of males in early onset is zoophilia slash bestiality both of these communities

00:31:19.720 are aroused by the idea of sex with animals and both are surprisingly common kenzie's study back in 1948

00:31:26.120 found eight percent of men and three percent of women had had sex with an animal by the time whoa i forgot

00:31:32.120 that that's almost one in ten people right like if you're standing in time square and didn't think

00:31:39.000 about it didn't fantasize about it just just wait for it yes wait for it but with time these numbers

00:31:46.920 have dropped with more recent studies showing them around five percent and two percent respectively

00:31:51.960 likely a product of lower access to animals in a more urban society these numbers are fascinating

00:31:56.840 when contrasted with our survey results which suggest that only six percent of males and two percent of

00:32:00.920 females are aroused by the idea of sex as an animal if the data is accurate this indicates that around 0.99

00:32:05.560 eighty seven percent of people who are aroused by the idea of sex with an animal have tried it the impulse

00:32:10.840 must be incredibly strong in that portion of the population that experiences it this leads to support

00:32:16.360 the theory of volume modifiers are developmentally separated by plus minus signs

00:32:21.960 the volume of the disgust generated by the idea of having sex with an animal is super high in the average person

00:32:27.160 so the arousal by it would be equally high in somebody who accidentally was basically multiplied

00:32:31.800 by a negative one in terms of the way their system worked now not to go further into the data here

00:32:37.480 because we can do a whole different video on zoophilia that i think would be really interesting

00:32:40.520 because the communities there are weird as hell in terms of their level of sophistication because they

00:32:45.720 have to be quite sophisticated in the way that they traffic animals for this well and let's also be

00:32:51.640 clear like the logistics of sex with animals is not without hazard there are complications and there

00:32:58.440 are detailed guides on navigating this yeah so the before i get further yeah so what i say here is the

00:33:04.920 system that's meant to tell you oh this thing isn't human is either like laxer in these individuals or

00:33:10.280 you might even have an inverted system in these individuals and keep in mind that historically there

00:33:15.960 is a preference for individuals who are not activating a disgust reaction but who look very

00:33:21.320 different from you if you can watch our video our redheads monster girls we talk about this in more

00:33:26.680 detail which is to say that whenever you have a strong sex selection i.e tons of males in a region

00:33:32.600 were dying and you typically have this across northern regions like incredibly far north regions you will

00:33:38.040 get selection for unique morphological traits that basically appear nowhere else these include multiple

00:33:45.880 hair colors multiple eye colors extreme freckles and being a ginger and it is interesting like as

00:33:53.000 europeans you may not consider how weird it is that we have different eye colors and different hair

00:33:59.320 colors in different ways that our hair grows out and different like some of us will be curly hair and

00:34:04.680 some of us won't in a lot of ethnic groups around the world that's just not true this level of

00:34:09.080 internal diversity and that was driven by an extreme number of deaths in the male population

00:34:15.400 which led to females being able to or the remaining males being able to select the females they want 0.98

00:34:20.520 or i think it no it might have been the opposite it might have been an extreme number of deaths in

00:34:23.960 the female population compared to other groups but it was due to one of the two anyway the point being

00:34:28.040 it just led to more strong sexual selection which shows that even in a historic environment

00:34:32.920 people preferred the most unique looking that didn't set off a this is not a human response

00:34:39.960 so that's likely what we're seeing here right because furries to be clear don't look like

00:34:48.600 full-out animals typically they look like anthropomorphized

00:34:53.960 animals i don't know they look like tony the tiger not

00:34:58.200 which by the way became like the furry community and and kellogg had like a big problem with it because

00:35:02.840 they all turned tony the tiger into this hot gay guy because he comes across like a gay guy to me i'm sorry 0.98

00:35:08.440 like doesn't toki the tiger sort of come off like a friendly gay guy and so they made him into this 0.94

00:35:14.040 like tony the tiger like sex idol in like the gay furry community 1.00

00:35:23.160 i just love like whoever this marketing intern is who has to deliver this information to their superior 0.72

00:35:30.280 trying to explain there there's this community called furries and they

00:35:35.240 i don't want to explain too much but they like dressing up in costumes i mean he's like well

00:35:40.760 what like mascots and they're like yeah yeah like mascot costumes oh why is that a problem well sir

00:35:48.200 i just oh to be a fly on the wall right yeah i mean there are furries i i have a slideshow i need

00:35:53.960 to show you and we'll explain many things but also bring many more questions to the table

00:35:59.080 i would just have them watch the internet historian video on fur con i think it's just they'll do it

00:36:06.760 internet historian is such a goat um oh furry reference there right like not just oh but anyway

00:36:12.920 the other thing that i think draws a lot of people to furries and this is what a lot of people in the

00:36:16.440 furry community will tell you speaking of our videos about autistic individuals over autistic

00:36:21.400 representation communities and looking for a sense of identity when you don't feel that you identify

00:36:27.880 strongly with the things you think you're supposed to naturally identify with like a personality

00:36:33.800 so many furries are drawn to the fandom as a means of exploring uh their identity the concept of a

00:36:39.960 fursona an anthropomorphic animal character that represents an individual allows furries to create

00:36:44.360 idealized versions of themselves often imbued with positive characteristics they aspire to have that can

00:36:49.240 be partially appealing for those who are shy reserved or socially anxious in their everyday lives

00:36:53.880 so consider right like if you are a shy person and you then say well my fursona isn't shy he's really

00:37:02.120 outgoing all the time you know he's like tony the tiger right you know and people aren't seeing you and

00:37:07.560 aren't judging you they're judging something else something that you only partially identify with

00:37:13.560 i know that even i do this to an extent without putting on a furry costume which is to say i have a

00:37:19.880 persona that i know i can cue using specific preset emotional and verbal commands by that what i mean is

00:37:30.920 at the beginning of every conversation i say something fans of the show may have noticed it

00:37:37.160 or they may not have if they are incredibly low perception stats which is i in an exuberant voice

00:37:45.800 say hello with a big smile on my face and that puts me in a high energy gregarious and affable

00:37:55.960 persona that is not necessarily my default persona my default persona is much more disinterested and

00:38:04.600 pragmatic and cold and not really interested in talking to or being around anyone other than maybe

00:38:11.560 my wife but if i have preset myself into this alternate persona it's very easy to keep it going

00:38:18.120 once i've sort of uh seated it and i can see a furry costume is also doing a fairly good job of that

00:38:24.120 it's just you know probably easier if you just did it with like a q word or something like that this can

00:38:29.240 be a very interesting way to sort of get around personality flaws that you aspire to overcome in a social

00:38:36.600 context and for some people these personality faults can be really really strong but then the

00:38:41.640 secondary thing that this can be very useful for is individuals who individuals who are autistic and

00:38:49.320 when they're like well i have these few things that are not human-like or that fall into the like okay

00:38:56.600 imagine you're describing your personality and you are autistic right and then you realize that because

00:39:03.320 we in our society even though we have dropped a lot of this idea of oh we're gonna have like

00:39:07.400 anthropomorphized animals as a major part of our society we still have a collection of

00:39:13.080 stereotyped personality traits that we associate with anthropomorphized specific species and so these

00:39:21.080 individuals might be like oh i am this collection of personality traits and then they look to animals and

00:39:28.760 they're like oh that actually fits like what i think of wolves being like you know like and then

00:39:34.120 they're like oh so i must be part wolf right uh that makes sense they're trying to sort things they're

00:39:40.760 trying to order things like an obsessive pattern yeah to the extent where if you look what you see is

00:39:49.160 22 percent of furries either i'm gonna go over a few studies here believed they were less than 100 percent

00:39:54.520 human huh well 23 percent believed they were other than 100 percent human and approximately one in

00:40:00.760 three furries 33 reported feeling not 100 percent human the concept of being less than 100 percent

00:40:05.560 human is complex within the furry community blah blah blah and 25 to sorry 22 to 25 percent of furries

00:40:11.800 consider themselves less than fully human so i found that really interesting

00:40:17.000 yeah i wonder if this if they believe like on a genetic level maybe that they're not fully human

00:40:23.560 or if they just don't want to identify fully as human i i want to dig deeper on that

00:40:30.200 yeah i uh don't know in doing more research on this i found that this belief is considered parallel

00:40:37.480 to the belief that a trans individual would have that they are not their birth gender so there used

00:40:43.080 to be this thing called other kin which was like the idea that some people were partially animal and they

00:40:49.880 would identify as an animal in the same way a trans person would identify as the other gender but the 0.96

00:40:55.160 other kin concept and community just got shamed to high hell and so i don't know if that many people

00:41:00.840 really identify with it anymore but instead there's now just sort of this background assumption within

00:41:07.000 the furry community because so much of the furry community is trans it's a very high overlap in these

00:41:12.360 communities which is well i mean i'm not going to make a political stance around this but yeah in the

00:41:18.520 same way i identify as another gender i identify partially as another species and this brings me

00:41:24.840 to my conclusion on what i think of the furry movement which is to say it's mostly a harmless

00:41:31.320 movement and i really do not see the point in outright shaming it as much as something say

00:41:37.640 generic transgenderism which is just way more of a waste of time money resources emotional effort on 1.00

00:41:44.120 something that's not by the data going to make you particularly more comfortable with yourself or

00:41:50.200 happier or better off whereas with furries i don't see it as bad because it's not like they're living

00:41:57.400 their entire life as a furry they're doing it occasionally at conventions right like if transness 1.00

00:42:03.880 was something that people did a few times a year at a convention i'd support it if it was something where

00:42:09.320 you just bought like a ten thousand dollar costume that you could you know stop using whenever you

00:42:14.120 wanted to well yeah i'd be like that's that's totally fine and this is why i do support cross

00:42:19.880 dressing drag queens drag kings all of that stuff if you're doing it as an every now and then

00:42:25.800 performance or something like that and it makes you feel good that's fine just don't dedicate your

00:42:30.280 entire life to it but with furries the big consternation i have with them is their connection to these

00:42:37.240 other memetic clusters which are so harmful like the gender identity obsession and stuff like that

00:42:44.840 and note here when i'm complaining about transgenderism i'm not complaining about just

00:42:49.400 having like a fluid gender identity or a different gender identity presentation all that stuff isn't

00:42:54.200 really common throughout human history i'm totally in support of that what i'm complaining about is

00:42:58.520 gender identity obsession and an obsession with the ways that other people are interpreting your gender

00:43:04.680 identity that's where it becomes really unhealthy and communities that are accepting of individuals

00:43:11.640 who build this type of obsession can cause this obsession to spread it appears to be like a viral

00:43:17.000 phenomenon that if you go to our video recently on eating disorders and transgenderism that there isn't 0.99

00:43:23.400 really any historic or cross-cultural parallel with this sort of gender obsession yes there's historic

00:43:29.640 parallels for fluid gender identity which i'm okay with what there is not is gender obsession as to

00:43:35.240 why i am consternated by this gender obsession phenomenon well it's associated with a 50 attempted 0.86

00:43:42.520 unaliving rate of course i would be concerned about my kids catching a memetic virus having a 50 attempted

00:43:51.240 you know what rate gender obsession appears to be a totally modern phenomenon and so interestingly for me

00:43:58.360 my concerns about the furry community are completely downstream of my concerns against this memetic

00:44:04.440 virus and not about furries themselves at all in fact i would go so far as to say of these sexual

00:44:11.080 deviancies that are common today furries are probably both the least offensive and the most traditionalist as

00:44:18.680 i've mentioned almost every culture in history had some sort of a celebration like this as to how i would have my kids

00:44:23.480 relate to something like this i would say just apply the rules that we use for everything else

00:44:28.680 which is to say if you want to occasionally indulge in furry conventions or indulge in furry erotic material

00:44:36.600 whatever so long as you do not incorporate a sin into your identity so long as you don't incorporate an

00:44:44.440 indulgence into your identity and you recognize this for what it is an indulgence you occasionally dabble in

00:44:51.400 that gives you some additional happiness or something like that but to never sacrifice your

00:44:57.480 only chance at meaning in life which is your industry your productivity your ability to uplift our

00:45:02.360 species for indulgence which is a lifestyle of furriedom or a lifestyle or any other lifestyle

00:45:09.240 which lowers your standing in society and wastes your time and wastes your money and then people would be

00:45:15.160 like no you should you should fight for a society where everyone accepts furries just as much as anyone

00:45:20.600 else and they can get jobs just as much as anyone else and they can i'm like that's the society we

00:45:24.360 live in right now what we what we shame is people who walk around all day in a fursuit or with a tail

00:45:29.240 attached or something like that and you're like well shouldn't we live in a society where fursuits are 0.84

00:45:33.960 totally normalized and it's like why would we want to normalize that they're they're big they're cumbersome

00:45:39.080 they would get smelly really quickly they would be difficult to clean they like the when people are like

00:45:45.240 well why can't we normalize this incredibly inconvenient and self-indulgent behavior it's

00:45:50.360 like well because it's completely inconvenient and self-indulgent okay there's a reason why it's not

00:45:55.160 normalized there are reasons why even historically in the societies that did have furry like parties and

00:46:00.760 stuff like that none of the people in those tribes went around all day in their animal fursonas

00:46:05.640 you would just do it at special events and with my kids that probably means okay you want to get a like

00:46:11.560 a half cheap fursuit go to conventions occasionally sure you're dropping 20k on a luxe suit no that's

00:46:19.800 wasteful why is affirming your furry identity so much more important than the lives that money could

00:46:24.920 go to saving or the science that money could go to improving or any personal project for self-improvement

00:46:31.240 that you could be spending that money on like education or anything like that it just obviously isn't and

00:46:36.440 i think learning to see people who dedicate their lives to self-affirmation with disgust is an important

00:46:45.000 thing for me to teach my kids because then that can make these sorts of self-affirming lifestyles or

00:46:50.520 lifestyles that are built around having other people see you a certain way less appealing recently on the

00:46:55.560 discord somebody was like oh malcolm you know you wouldn't be so skeptical of this trans stuff if trans

00:47:00.920 people were more accepted in mainstream society like this must be just downstream of appealing to a

00:47:05.800 conservative base or oh malcolm how could you both engage in effective altruism or want to create

00:47:13.400 this iteration of effective altruism hard effective altruism and be trans critical and to this i would

00:47:19.320 say there is literally nothing more antithetical to actual effective altruism than a trans individual 1.00

00:47:25.880 this is somebody who spent time emotional effort and tons of money in terms of modifying how they see

00:47:32.600 themselves and how other people see them they could have gone towards actually moving our species

00:47:37.480 forwards or saving lives it is the highest display possible within our culture right now outside of

00:47:45.400 walking around with diamond teeth of personal indulgence and obsession instead of dedicating your life

00:47:54.120 to other people they're like well what about the people who were just born a different identity and i'm

00:47:58.600 like i i'm totally fine with that look if somebody it like let's say this happened let's say that

00:48:04.200 sometimes female brains were born inside male heads and sometimes male brains were born inside female 0.94

00:48:09.400 heads and i'm like then just act was a different gender expression you know nobody else seems to have

00:48:15.480 this absolute obsession was being seen as a certain way except for like andrew tate and like the the

00:48:21.640 the far right like chad brods that seem to have some form of body dysmorphia an obsession was the way that

00:48:28.200 you are gendered by other people is not a normal part of human psychology and not mentally healthy 0.82

00:48:34.600 and normalizing a psychological license to develop these kinds of obsessions is very bad for society

00:48:41.960 um but i i find that interesting um i mean i definitely i think a lot of kids do this i went through phases

00:48:47.800 where i wanted to be a cat as a child this is not something i'm proud of you have to tell the audience

00:48:55.880 about this phase this is like it wasn't a normal level of wanting to be a cat right yeah i would

00:49:03.000 i would very actively imitate cats i was convinced that i was quite young while this was happening okay

00:49:10.040 that i could speak with cats but like telepathically maybe i can't remember the full details of it but i

00:49:16.680 was pretty convinced of it my friend and i would imitate cats all the time we were very effective

00:49:24.360 at it it was looking back on it extremely embarrassing not really for a young girl

00:49:32.520 i actually think there were these these books called the animorph series i don't know if you

00:49:37.000 remember these they oh yeah no animorphs was apparently super based if you read it all the way through

00:49:41.960 oh i actually have never read a single one because i'm not actually that interested in human

00:49:46.200 transformation into animals and i haven't i don't know my cat face was either but i have read youtube

00:49:50.920 summaries of them simone this is your literacy i have you read the book well i've watched the youtube

00:49:58.600 summary which is honestly so much better in many cases yeah so i mean i think that there's something deep

00:50:05.160 in humans that makes them appreciate animals perhaps um there's even some sympathetic magic i

00:50:13.400 know that when i was a kid at my preschool i went to this home-based preschool where the leader of it

00:50:19.320 would make a cake of your design choice any design choice if you were a kid then i always wanted a

00:50:25.800 swan cake for my birthday because this was a birthday tree so she would make a sheet cake shaped like a swan 1.00

00:50:31.960 and i thought that if i ate the swan cake i would become a swan i wanted to be a swan because swans

00:50:38.360 are graceful so i mean i definitely there's there's something so this is this is why i think it's

00:50:44.120 important to talk about this yeah because if you raise your kids not realizing that the type of phase

00:50:51.240 that you went through is normal okay yeah but it's normal to do this and and like you you're like oh this

00:50:57.240 is very non-normal this is very weird then your kid who is experiencing that and has access to

00:51:02.680 online communities they are going to be very easy to be targeted by furry communities oh not like oh 1.00

00:51:09.720 you just like pretending to be a cat then it becomes so you're a furry and so you're afraid

00:51:15.640 you didn't have access to online communities back then if you had met a furry community back then

00:51:20.680 how appealing with the ideology that they're selling that well a lot of people aren't fully human

00:51:26.120 and why don't you come to our events where we all do the little cat thing together this is why it's

00:51:32.200 so important if you want your culture to survive the internet that you do not shame normal things as

00:51:40.200 weird and it even helps if you do not shame weird things for the sake of being weird remember shame the

00:51:49.320 indulgence and not the impulse people don't choose what impulses they are subject to they choose how

00:51:57.560 much they indulge in those impulses and a small level of indulgence should never be an excuse for

00:52:03.720 shaming because that leads to rumination and obsession as you can see from any study on trying not to think

00:52:10.200 about a thing and you could say well why why would you allow for that sort of stuff and it's well in a

00:52:16.040 historic context where an individual was afraid of their community rejecting them and then them

00:52:23.080 having to live in the woods or dying or being kicked out of the tribe being shamed was a really powerful

00:52:29.640 way to enforce convergent behavior unfortunately in a modern context it has the exact opposite effect

00:52:36.440 because that individual who is being shamed for something they feel this strong negative feeling

00:52:42.760 associated with oh i'll be rejected for the community or they might hide that thing about

00:52:47.800 themselves and feel oh if the community knew they'd reject me but then they can find communities that

00:52:52.360 accept them for that thing in an online context and then it gets even worse because well they have a

00:52:59.320 fear or an emotional pain associated with the mainstream community that they're associated with

00:53:04.920 but a feeling of protection and comfort with this online community and then well they begin going to

00:53:10.520 conventions where they can indulge in this aspect of themselves and before you know it there's no way

00:53:15.720 to reach them anymore because now they have a group of people who accepts them for this thing that you

00:53:21.960 told them was weird and something they should feel bad about and when you're trying to get them to come

00:53:26.360 back to your people or your community what do you have to offer them you say come back to us so you can

00:53:31.480 feel shamed for this again so you can feel embarrassed about this again why would they come back that social

00:53:37.720 technology while it made sense that it evolved in a like early human context or even a pre-modern context

00:53:46.600 in the age of the internet is incredibly deleterious and like shooting your genetic line in the face your

00:53:53.640 kids growing up are going to know what furries are they are going to encounter furries regularly and they're

00:54:01.480 likely going to have furry friends if you tell your kids furries are evil people don't engage with them don't

00:54:09.480 go around them to attempt to isolate them from a phenomenon like this when they meet a furry and they realize

00:54:15.240 that furry isn't evil and is in fact a nice and otherwise normal person every other warning that you gave them

00:54:22.360 tied to furries completely flies out the window because at the first step you invalidated yourself so when a person who

00:54:29.480 who didn't grow up in an environment around furries who didn't grow up having furry friends tells me oh

00:54:34.920 this system that my parents used to keep me from becoming a furry is going to keep my kids from

00:54:39.160 becoming a furry i'm like you you never even had an option to be a furrier like what are you talking

00:54:44.600 about please use a degree of common sense think about it this way okay your parents didn't have to worry

00:54:51.400 about you becoming a furry but maybe collecting comic books was something your parents shamed people around

00:54:57.880 you for or playing dungeons and dragons and then you snuck out and you did that and you got really

00:55:03.320 into that how could they have prevented you from doing that well they probably couldn't have right

00:55:10.120 now what if they have told you that you will never be accepted into a church again if you play video

00:55:16.840 games or collect comic books or collect baseball cards or play dungeon and dragons or read a harry potter

00:55:23.320 book any of these things that historically were seen as potentially deviant well that would have

00:55:29.000 made it very easy for you to decide to never go to church again big mistake that many conservatives

00:55:34.600 make here is they're like yeah well if i seed the ground on this today then tomorrow it'll be something

00:55:41.640 even more deviant they see society as an a slide to increasing deviancy instead of seeing deviancy as

00:55:50.360 occurring in waves and them not recognizing that the deviancy that they grew up with might not be

00:55:57.240 particularly more deviant than the deviancy that the kids are dealing with today they have just

00:56:02.680 normalized it more so consider something like dungeons and dragons for example if furries had been

00:56:08.760 popular in let's say the 1970s and dungeons of dragons was just becoming popular today we would likely

00:56:16.600 see dungeons and dragons as significantly more deviant than furries you'd be like what's so

00:56:20.920 deviant about furries that's just that thing where people dress up in animal costumes and go to parties

00:56:26.120 dungeons and dragons that's where people live in complete alternate universes where they are totally

00:56:32.120 detached from reality and they play with magic and spells and other forms of satanic arts of furries

00:56:39.640 that's not satanic that's just totally normal stuff you know grandpa used to do that with his

00:56:44.840 fraternity and the boys from the lodge and and if you're like come on it's not like there was

00:56:50.280 stuff that was really degenerate in the past more degenerate than things today that we no longer do

00:56:55.080 anymore that has faded out of popularity i'm like okay what about key swap parties if you haven't heard

00:57:00.360 of a key swap party uh this is something i think was popular in the 60s in which swinger couples would go

00:57:05.960 to a house and they'd all put their keys in like a bowl at the door and then you'd end up having sex with 0.99

00:57:11.960 whoever's key you randomly picked up from the bowl there are very few things in our society today as

00:57:18.040 degenerate as that and i think that it's important that we recognize this if you give something the

00:57:24.680 power to peel people away from your community it will so instead of reacting or shaming indulgences with

00:57:32.280 disgust shame it with logic what else could you have invested this time and effort into how many people

00:57:41.640 are dead so that you get to walk around with that fancy gender display fursuit or necklace when your 0.99

00:57:49.560 kids see people brag or show off pointless indulgences this should be what their brains are translating

00:57:56.840 that to and if a person's like no i paid for it with insurance then this analogy is even more spot on

00:58:02.840 you see this this top surgery comes from a little girl in riverside california took me three whole

00:58:09.800 weeks and this fursuit nice lady in detroit motown six days flat and there's this old guy in philly

00:58:19.400 i killed him in 72 hours yeah i'm getting better as i go along baby and like you see what i mean simone 0.52

00:58:27.880 yeah yeah you would have been completely all about that so i get why would have been a trans furry 0.99

00:58:36.040 in your actually no you would have been repelled so i that would have like one of the big furry

00:58:40.760 conventions happened right across from my office where i used to work in silicon valley so i do

00:58:45.080 ever see because i like explore and i could never yeah i could never really get in the building because

00:58:50.280 the smell was so bad and this is to me so to you you would not have gotten you would be

00:58:58.520 that autistic guarding mechanism you wouldn't even get past the door that is wild so the rumors are true 1.00

00:59:08.520 oh yeah no well i mean the suits are very difficult to wash because they're like these big bulky things

00:59:14.280 i have watched videos on people who didn't wash the suits for months and like how they i love watching

00:59:18.840 videos on like cringe compilations and they were talking about how hard they are to wash

00:59:23.720 and so you know you're sweaty because they're they're very warm inside obviously and then people

00:59:30.040 are yiffing or having sex inside these sometimes you're not going to wash them within the time period 0.95

00:59:36.840 of a single convention at least because then it's all going to be wet the next day you try to go out 0.92

00:59:42.120 so you're dealing with you know if it's a multi-day convention at least a few days of sweat

00:59:47.880 accumulated in the suit um and other forms of bo and stuff like that so i mean it's totally

00:59:54.760 understandable to me i don't even think that this is like a lack of like normal hygiene i'm just like

00:59:59.800 this is just asking for incredible amounts of disgusting smell but the other thing i note here

01:00:05.880 if you want to talk about how this gets appealing to people is i would to somebody who isn't a furt right

01:00:11.720 think about it more like a harry potter house right when i talk about people's intrinsic desire to

01:00:17.880 categorize themselves and offload part of their personality to something other than themselves

01:00:24.280 if instead of like gryffindor and like you know i don't know the hufflepuff etc right the houses are

01:00:31.800 animal personas right like you're on a you're choosing an animal profile for yourself in like a

01:00:39.880 video game it's like you're a little mascot at the bottom right you know you would be like oh this one

01:00:44.200 is associated with this personality this collection of personality traits or if you were being sorted

01:00:49.320 by a sorting hat and there were like bears and wolves and tigers and snakes and you'd go in thinking

01:00:56.120 oh i know which one i am like i know which one i want to be uh sorted to now you as a maybe non-autistic

01:01:02.680 person you have that in the back of your head and you're like but like that's just because

01:01:08.520 we as a society have coded animal stereotypes as having specific personality features you as an

01:01:13.480 autist would be like ah yes i must go in that category now and live like a part of my life in that

01:01:19.480 category right i don't know what i'm saying all this was an autistic wife and autistic kids right so

01:01:23.960 now do you want to talk about the omega verse really quickly obviously yes because this is

01:01:29.640 another thing that's gotten big bigger online recently and i'm basically my bet when i look at

01:01:35.160 i thought maybe it would only die down and flare out this is growing it's growing

01:01:41.000 yeah that's my read oh my gosh amazing

01:01:46.280 hold on i'm looking up google trends to see trends or to present oh

01:01:54.520 indeed wow okay so it's first rise was in 2020 because that's when i was in 2020

01:02:04.040 okay first rise was in 2020 which of course makes sense because that's when everyone entered clown world

01:02:11.000 and then the top all-time spike was in may of 2021 or april and then it has reached that same all-time

01:02:20.600 spike again in october no september of this year yeah so it it sort of ebbed down a little bit from

01:02:33.560 its i think that was from it being a weird thing to something that people are getting genuinely interested

01:02:38.440 oh no that is fascinating yeah i've got to share i think i think omega verse is going to be the next

01:02:45.400 furries

01:02:47.960 i'm okay with that because it makes a little more sense to me i mean i feel like at least i

01:02:52.040 i can kind of understand the omega verse i i can't understand furries i really we have to get

01:02:58.120 into the omega verse so let's explain this so this is the omega verse this is not animals this is this

01:03:03.800 is humans but they have some animal-like characteristics started in werewolf genres

01:03:09.400 around like you can go to another channel that's not what we're doing here but just to give a brief

01:03:15.000 overview of what the omega verse is as a concept because it's like an arousal pattern concept

01:03:21.160 that a lot of people are getting a lot of people i should say a lot of women omega verse is almost 1.00

01:03:25.320 entirely women in terms of who's interested in this yeah that is because i think that they're 1.00

01:03:29.000 the ones looking for super normal dominance we'll get into this the omega verse also known as abo

01:03:34.920 the alpha beta omega is a subgenre of speculative erotic fiction

01:03:39.000 that originated in fan fiction communities around 2010 this trope creates an alternate

01:03:45.960 universe where humans are divided into three main categories based on a dominance hierarchy

01:03:50.600 alpha betas and omegas alphas typically dominant and aggressive often in positions of power

01:03:56.200 can impregnate omegas may experience ruts periods of intense sexual desire betas similar

01:04:02.280 to average humans act as a stabilizing force in society can sometimes impregnate or be impregnated

01:04:07.640 depending on the story and then omegas often portrayed as submissive or nurturing can become

01:04:13.000 pregnant regardless of biological sex experience heats periods of fertility and intense sexual desire 0.98

01:04:19.240 so one of the things you're getting here which is very useful for female sexuality is the removal of 1.00

01:04:25.720 consent which is one of the top female arousal patterns and a removal of consent in a format it's 1.00

01:04:32.040 not just a common female fetish like one of the common female fetishes but it removes copability 1.00

01:04:38.280 from them wanting to explore their sexuality which is really important to a lot of women in terms of

01:04:44.760 like arousal patterns it also unmoors it from modern politics or societies you're not thinking about

01:04:51.400 like actual cases of war crimes you're not actually thinking of you know terrible real world times in

01:04:58.440 history or at the present where people humans are being mistreated this is the fantasy universe

01:05:05.480 so it also won't make you feel politically guilty and i think a lot of women struggle with being turned

01:05:11.320 on by things that they morally really don't condone and it also happens a lot in the real world the

01:05:16.920 omegaverse enables them to to play with these dynamics to exercise them without feeling as though they are

01:05:24.360 condoning or celebrating something genuinely awful happening in the real world yeah so that's actually

01:05:30.200 really interesting so the omegaverse one of the things that's pretty common in it is and it's

01:05:34.280 interesting that this evolved it wasn't in the earliest stories but it evolved in the later stories

01:05:39.000 i have watched a number of deep dives on this community because i just find it fascinating is the

01:05:43.160 idea of biting your partner to show that you sort of own them as a partner or that they are yours and that

01:05:50.600 this like biting on the neck or so i don't know the neck or shoulders and like to leave a mark or just

01:05:56.280 just biting i don't know i just heard it described okay like i haven't read these actual source fanfics

01:06:02.840 okay but so what what this comes back to is what we were talking about earlier which is a submission

01:06:10.280 dominance ritual which we don't really have in our society yeah yeah and i think that you're right as

01:06:17.960 women have entered an age where they are not allowed to want to be submissive a form of erotic fiction

01:06:26.280 that and remember we have something like 86 of women consume some form of erotic fiction like once a 1.00

01:06:30.600 month at least so like this is not that unusual for for women to have something that they're engaging with

01:06:37.080 that removes copability is going to have a lot of popularity so biological features heats and ruts

01:06:43.640 omegas experience heats while alphas have ruts this means a period where they lose some degree of

01:06:50.600 well copability for their actions scenting characters can detect pheromones and emotions

01:06:56.040 through smell self-lubrication male omegas are often depicted as self-lubricating oh and there was

01:07:03.240 like a one i was watching recently that went over like the biology like people have tried to do the 0.78

01:07:07.640 biology of like how this would work nodding a biological feature where the alpha's penis swells 1.00

01:07:13.960 into a tie within the omega during mating this is something that dogs do which like forces them

01:07:19.640 together but again removing a degree of ability to escape while also removing this from one copability

01:07:26.920 and two from human sexuality because a lot of women have a degree of aversion to human sexuality or bad 0.98

01:07:33.320 experiences with human sexuality meaning that when they are engaging in erotic uh fiction they look

01:07:39.160 for things that look very distant from human sexuality another really common thing in this

01:07:44.280 which i actually find pretty interesting i'm not a hundred percent sure i know what's going on here

01:07:48.680 is impreg is very common in this this is male pregnancy um it's a very common subgenre of the omega verse

01:07:58.600 as to what i think is going on here i think it's similar to what i was talking about

01:08:03.000 with where i was like well the reason you would have for a subcategory of the population food is is

01:08:08.440 these are people who are really turned off by the idea of seeing a male in their pornography but want 0.99

01:08:14.200 to see penis and vagina sex what impreg might be is for women who are really turned off are really 0.99

01:08:20.760 hyper competitive with other women in the way their sexuality is coded and do not want to see another 1.00

01:08:25.960 woman in any of their fiction still wanting to see impregnation because they have a degree of a 1.00

01:08:31.320 breeding kink which i've noted in the past i think that is the only thing in the world that isn't a 1.00

01:08:37.240 fetish the the only thing in the world that isn't a fetish is a breeding fetish because that's what sex 1.00

01:08:43.080 is meant for okay if you are having sex for any reason other than breeding that's a fetish

01:08:50.120 definitionally speaking okay yeah i guess now that i i think about it i typically i've always seen that

01:08:57.320 as a fetish until this very moment second no it's like the one reason the one reason why people should

01:09:03.800 be doing those it's the one reason you should be doing it yeah no if you're having like recreational 0.99

01:09:08.360 sex with someone you can't get pregnant that's a kink you you are using their body to masturbate an 1.00

01:09:14.200 evolved instinct for something other than its purpose all of the stuff that we consider arousal 0.98

01:09:20.760 or sex or anything like that is meant to create babies and if you're using it for something other

01:09:28.600 than making babies that's a kink and so i you know when a woman's like well you know i'm shamefully 1.00

01:09:34.840 turned on by the idea of people getting pregnant i'm like well no that's it's sort of the whole reason

01:09:40.200 the system exists the one thing to not be embarrassed about yeah well when i read erotic

01:09:44.680 fiction i really don't like to read about other women because then i'm like oh this guy who i'm

01:09:48.840 into is sleeping with another woman so i just read things about other men and so they're the ones

01:09:52.760 getting pregnant i'm like okay that is it also just removes to a great extent like just looking at

01:09:58.120 this from the perspective of yaoi which is like manga that's or anime that's guy on guy romance

01:10:04.200 that's primarily consumed i should be clear by women in japan not by gay dudes um it just takes

01:10:13.880 the pressure off when it's not a woman and a man romance and instead it's a man-on-man romance it's

01:10:20.520 just become sweet and fun and not stressful in a way that i can't really get from wait can you explain

01:10:27.000 why it's less stressful i i don't get that i think because you're less likely to insert yourself as a

01:10:34.440 female into the role of the female or judge the female as sexual competition if that makes sense 0.98

01:10:41.560 you can just enjoy the love i just like what's that name of that ice skating

01:10:47.560 yeah the ice skating yaoi anime and it's just like oh my god you know you just you feel so good your heart

01:10:53.560 skips a beat and you there's no there's no lingering yeah so okay i'll explain this for

01:11:00.120 guys who are watching and don't get what she's saying i get it now okay okay so as a guy there

01:11:05.240 is lots of just like generic heterosexual anime characters where i'm like oh my god that relationship

01:11:13.080 is so sweet oh my god like like you know what i'm talking about turn young again so sweet grandma

01:11:19.000 and grandpa turn young again it's a great example of this i'm just like oh my god that's so sweet

01:11:22.280 that's so cute yeah i get that i doubt that they would arise a sexual competition thing for you

01:11:26.920 but like well no no but i i will say that watching grandpa and grandma turn young again and seeing

01:11:31.560 this couple like i get a little stressed i start thinking about myself and am i am i a good enough

01:11:36.760 wife like how can i be better to you and suddenly i'm in this picture and i'm thinking about me and i

01:11:40.920 don't want to think about me i want to think about love and romance and you know some other story i

01:11:45.000 want to be transported okay so even that that heterosexual relationship you know i'm thinking about how you

01:11:50.760 and i are going to turn old you know no no there's a woman in it it it adds a subconscious level of

01:11:56.680 stress but go on well no i mean i think for a lot of guys they experience this like oh that's so sweet

01:12:04.840 and women may not be able to get that or some women sometimes that some category of women if there 1.00

01:12:10.520 is a woman in the piece right like they're like they cannot masturbate when i say masturbate i don't 1.00

01:12:15.080 mean like literally masturbate but masturbate an emotional subset like fully activate this 0.92

01:12:20.360 subcategory of emotion without engaging in something like that 0.98

01:12:26.520 yeah or it's just like a food that's just not quite there you know it's just a little off it could

01:12:33.320 be better and then it's just so much better when it's when it's guy on guy so yeah mpreg makes makes

01:12:40.920 sense yaoi makes sense i didn't i forgot that that was a thing in the omega verse that's very

01:12:46.600 interesting yeah i think with kids like what would be my rule with our kids in this stuff i think it's

01:12:52.360 very important to differentiate between identity arousal patterns and life duties um because when you

01:13:02.360 put these two things against each other especially with like an autistic young person it's very easy to 0.97

01:13:06.680 lose it it's like oh if i fall into this category then all of a sudden i'm on the

01:13:12.120 furry maxing life path right like i'm going to every convention i'm i'm spending you know twenty

01:13:17.320 thousand dollars on a first suit collection i'm you know and it's saying look i'm okay if you identify

01:13:24.840 with these communities or engage with these communities but remember that this is just for

01:13:30.440 masturbating specific self-perception pathways and maybe arousal pathways but it's not something

01:13:37.720 that you should be looking to dedicate your life to it reminds me of you know what my parents told me

01:13:42.280 in high school which is you know sleep around but remember that you know about midway through college

01:13:48.360 you need to be looking for a wife right like i they're like i don't mind if you take this time to

01:13:54.280 uh date and and learn what it is to date and everything like that but remember that you're

01:14:00.200 not likely the people you date in high school and this was really emphasized to me the people you date

01:14:04.280 in high school do not get them pregnant and do not marry them because it's like look it's unlikely that

01:14:10.840 they're going to be well matched for you or the best of the best it's just serendipitously the people

01:14:15.800 in your local community right you know they're not people from around the world who have sorted based

01:14:20.600 on like intelligence level or uh socioeconomic class or interests which is what you get in college

01:14:26.520 and jobs and stuff like that and so that was very easy for me i i wasn't really tempted by any of those

01:14:34.120 things because i understood their context was in my life and i understood it was normal to do things

01:14:40.920 like date in high school right and so i think if we can build a similar idea for our kids like this

01:14:47.640 is for fun but you still have a duty which is where you get purpose and do not consume

01:14:54.440 confuse things that are fun or meant to masturbate emotional subsets or meant to masturbate 0.74

01:14:59.400 self-image subsets with things that you should take pride in right like there's a huge difference

01:15:04.920 in being like i'm a gamer and that's kind of pathetic like i need to also like do things that matter

01:15:10.680 right and i'm a gamer and therefore like i'm part of this like hyper class right when saying that i'm a

01:15:16.760 a furry and that's kind of like weird and lame and like i need to i i i can indulge in that where i

01:15:22.920 find communion with other people or in this particular part of my life but this is not the

01:15:28.360 same as you know being a scientist or an entrepreneur or somebody who's moving society forwards right

01:15:33.720 to understand the shame doesn't need to be overwhelming everybody sins right but that

01:15:40.840 and this is the big problem with groups that say the shame needs to be overwhelming because then

01:15:45.160 what individuals always do because no individual doesn't sin is they're like well then i shouldn't

01:15:49.400 be ashamed they then ended up taking pride in the things that they're supposed to be ashamed for

01:15:55.000 and i think that's why it's very useful to have sort of like prodromal levels of shame like

01:16:00.760 just don't take pride in it right like just don't take pride in it and understand that you should be

01:16:05.240 spending time on other things and that this is a time lock thing in your life actually this really

01:16:09.320 reminds me of being a goth as a kid right okay so i was like a gothy punk kid um and i always

01:16:15.480 remember like this is thinking people be like oh you know you're gonna do this like oh you're gonna be

01:16:21.160 in this community forever you're gonna be i was like no i'm gonna be like a suit and tie guy when

01:16:24.280 i'm an adult i'm like gothy adults are pathetic gothy late teens that's like fun and cool right you know

01:16:34.520 like oh you're like punk and out there and i think that like with things like the furry community 0.83

01:16:40.520 getting very big be like look if you want to like wear a tail or whatever in high school and like a

01:16:45.880 bunch of other kids are doing that whatever right like maybe they're less likely to get you into drugs

01:16:50.360 and other communities you know but i think framing for kids in the same way it was framed to me 0.95

01:16:55.880 yeah you know a goth 20 year old hot a goth 40 year old pathetic and creepy um and and frame it the

01:17:06.840 same way with things like the furry community and other communities they might engage with is to 0.96

01:17:11.720 understand that this is a time gated phenomenon in their lives which kids actually adapt to really

01:17:17.960 easily if you if you frame things like that and it removes a lot of the hooks that people can use to get

01:17:23.080 to it yeah that's an interesting strategy all right love you to death simone any final thoughts yes that

01:17:32.600 it's i think also people may choose to identify with furries or as other things because they lack

01:17:40.280 any feeling of culture yes you grew up with a very strong family culture you grew up with a very strong

01:17:46.840 understanding of what it meant to be a collins for example in my culture the urban

01:17:52.920 monoculture there there wasn't this this feeling that anyone could be anything in fact group

01:17:58.760 affiliation i always felt was like something that could belong to other people but not me

01:18:03.240 weirdly and that i always wanted to belong to a group but i could never do it so i think then the idea

01:18:09.960 of joining something like the furry community is very appealing because it's one of those groups

01:18:15.480 that you're like allowed to be a part of and proud of and there is no other you know community or

01:18:22.040 tradition like you know even with christmas i was the one who would set up our fake christmas tree that

01:18:27.320 i convinced the family to buy because yeah they didn't want you to have a christmas tree they're

01:18:31.720 like it's not that they didn't want it they just like it wasn't their thing it wasn't something that

01:18:38.440 after i was really really little they really got excited about so just that lack of of feeling of

01:18:45.560 like these are this is us these are our strong traditions this is our strong culture we do this

01:18:50.440 at this time of year i think can make people very excited to join communities and then go like and

01:18:57.080 there are these annual events like there's this convention there's the whole convention season

01:19:01.560 and you know if you're an anime person you can sort of do the circuit of conventions there are new

01:19:07.000 shows that come out like they're suddenly this thing to fill the void so i think a lot of it isn't even

01:19:12.120 about trying to reframe or control the way that people interact with these communities it's give

01:19:18.360 them community in the first place that's nice that's good that makes them feel like they belong to

01:19:24.040 something and and some group that i don't know i've seen a lot of christian furries you have

01:19:31.560 maybe yeah or maybe but i do think that you have a part of a point here which is that even they

01:19:37.640 don't really understand that that's their culture yeah they see it as a belief system not a way of

01:19:43.560 life yeah could be anyway love you to decimum i love you too malcolm yes hello everyone this is

01:19:54.200 your friendly reminder to register for natal con in march in austin if you use the discount code

01:20:01.560 colonies you'll get 10 off so be there we'll see you there i'm so excited and it's gonna be awesome

01:20:16.840 anything new today

01:20:17.640 i learned that the that visa was started by sort of a consortium of banks big banks and then

01:20:33.240 mastercard was created by a consortium of smaller banks that were trying to compete with these bigger

01:20:38.120 banks and that credit card companies really exist almost like the airline reporting corporation

01:20:47.720 does for airlines to just help it make money as a sort of instrument that appears to be independent

01:20:56.440 but really isn't so i find that quite interesting what's it not independent of banks no so this is

01:21:05.320 the consortium for the banks interesting okay well i'll get us started on today's episode

01:21:10.840 hmm let's see what do you want

01:21:18.840 okay who's it for

01:21:27.240 what did you what did you ask santa for

01:21:28.920 what did you make here tell me what is this

01:21:39.080 oh wow

01:21:51.960 and octavia what did you ask for

01:21:53.800 i asked for a remote control

01:21:57.160 and you want to be you in there okay and titan what about you what did you ask for

01:22:02.440 you got a little pigtail you want to be a butterfly you want to be butterfly titan

01:22:07.400 oh i make a butterfly oh is that butterfly titan are you so cute

01:22:14.760 what do you think i think i'll take it in

01:22:16.440 okay draw more of my love

01:22:18.040 what

Based Camp - January 09, 2025

Furries & Omegaverse： Why Are They So Popular？

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