Great Feminization Theory： Did Women Break Society？
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 1 minute
Harmful content
Misogyny
60
sentences flagged
Toxicity
29
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Hate speech
59
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Summary
The Great Feminization Theory (Helen Andrews) is a theory that argues that when women became more dominant in formerly male-dominated fields, there was a corresponding rise in the number of women in those same fields. In this episode, we discuss the theory and how it might have some explanatory power to society s current state.
Transcript
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Hello, Simone. Today, we are going to be talking about the great feminization theory by Helen
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Andrews. In summation, if you are not familiar with the theory, because it's been doing the
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rounds recently, and it might have some explanatory power to society's current state,
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she specifically looks at when various fields began to become majority female, be that university
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professors, law school students, scientists, management in the United States, most of which
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at this point is majority female. And she pinpoints the dates that these transitions happened to the
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rise of wokeness as a social phenomenon, arguing that what wokeness really is, is a female
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sociological approach, like what makes female minds different from male minds, applied at the
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civilizational management scale and i find it very interesting i told simone to dig into it
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i mean unfortunately she's got a cold today so you're gonna have to have a a weak voice simone
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here but she is a woman so she only she can truly understand the horrors of the female brain
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yeah i don't know whenever i have some kind of throat problem i just think of
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gentlemen prefer blondes when at one point a boy speaking from a trench coat that Marilyn Monroe
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is hiding behind and she's like laryngitis and that's all I think of when I have this voice
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and that's such a great like that home film is such a great study of gender roles and and playing
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with them anyway though um I'm I'm I think there's a lot of merit to this theory but I also think
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that there's some i don't know i want to question it and i even have one kind of
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another theory about how maybe men are responsible for this too so i want to hear your thoughts okay
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go into it this first emerged last year in september when helen andrews gave a speech
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about this great feminization theory at the national conservatism conference in washington
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dc and the speech was super popular it got over 175 000 views so then she decided to publish an
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essay about it in compact magazine in october that was just when this dude was born and yes
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like you said she connects the rise of wogeness and institutional dysfunction to higher percentages
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of women in formerly male-dominated fields and that's really the key part here because
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men still are the dominant people in employment now i mean at least formal employment but her
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point is that women bring feminine values that prioritize empathy over rationality
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and safety over risk and cohesion over competition and that many institutions that were really key
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in influencing how the rest of society works at this tipping point over like a series of maybe
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like five to seven years and she cites specifically law schools which became majority female since
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2016 new york times staff which was majority female since 2018 and is now 55 women at medical
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schools which became majority female since 2019 and then also the college educated workforce which
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was majority female since 2019. So these are really recent tipping points. Women are now 33%
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of judges additionally, and 63% of those were appointed by Joe Biden. Again, this is super
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recent. And women are also 46% of managers, as he pointed out. And in her more detailed article,
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she cites writers like Noah Carl and Bowen-Agard and Cory Clark, whose survey data show that women
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are more likely to prioritize social cohesion over free speech. For example, one cited survey
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has 71% of men favoring free speech over cohesion, while 59% of women favor cohesion. I think we
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might have even covered this on our podcast. And then she also draws on Joyce Benison's book,
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Warriors and Worriers, like as in worrying, and where she reports lab observations that male
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groups will jockey for taking time and disagree really loudly but then converge on a solution
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whereas female groups focus more on like personal relations and eye contact and turn taking like
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classic stuff that we think first really saw with the rise of occupy wall street and then they pay
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less attention to the actual assigned task she also attributes the rise of cancellations to
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women's conflict diversion and i think that's the first of her theories that i find to be really
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revelatory because i hadn't seen it as that way but it really is like the way that women deal
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with conflict is they just freeze people out and cold shoulder them there's all this like behind
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closed doors talking about people behind their backs whereas men just trash talk you to your
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face like you work it out in person and yeah i noticed this and we talked about it with the
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conflict between trump and elon which was really refreshing and i do not think damaged either of
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their reputations nearly as much as it would have had it been a standard woke fight where they just
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like basically to each other's pieces on x said a bunch of mean stuff for a week but then they got
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over it and nobody cared anymore yeah it felt so different from the types of political battles that
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we are used to out of like the clintons and stuff like that where hillary would never just go out
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there and say a bunch of mean things against another mainstream democratic candidate no like
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they shadow ban you to the point where like you don't necessarily even know you've been frozen
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out you just have been it's like there's no there's no due process you don't have a chance
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to even have your say you just get uninvited at some point well and i heard in popular like
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mainstream outlets that cancel culture was attributed to well they say it came out of
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like gay culture specifically like at least the the linguistic origins of it came from gay culture
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apparently but yeah i mean like the can the the act of it by the way and i have explained this
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to you before you just refuse to believe it because it's it's very well documented what do
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you mean so cancel culture the word cancel yeah came from the campaign hashtag cancel colbert
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no get his show canceled then people retroactively as people do for many things
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attempt to pin it to either black or gay culture because this is just something progressive culture
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does it cannot admit that something had a random origin or a white origin so it will always go
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back and try to find any historical incidents of gay or black people using a word in a specific way
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so it can say actually that everybody knows that they do this it's always like this came from black
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culture this came from gay culture and you're like well obviously not everything came from one of
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those two cultures and was cancellation is one of the clearest examples because to cancel a
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television show is a normal thing to say the very first major widespread campaign of cancellation
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i just cannot deal with this historical lamp what is it a lamp gassing light light gassing
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gaslighting gaslighting yes gaslighting yes this this historic gaslighting that this came
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literally from anything other than hashtag cancel colbert that was like no other incident was
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nearly that big and she clearly had no connection to gay culture she clearly didn't get the term
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from gay gay culture she wanted to cancel his television show well anyway it's it's it's i just
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never thought of it i never realized the extent to which it is a very deeply feminine way of
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conflict resolution it was a woman by the way who did this conflict it's very like direct conflict
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averse conflict resolution but one that is ultimately less just because it doesn't give
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the or the accused party a chance to defend themselves and one study you haven't mentioned
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which is obviously very important to all of this in terms of the rise of women is the study that
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showed i hope our audience is familiar with this by now because it is very big to my understanding
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of reality now where people played a game against other people for resources and some of these
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individuals were shown to be cheating and some of these individuals are shown to not be cheating
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and men and women were shown them being shocked while they were playing the game and for men
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when somebody wasn't cheating and they were shocked it distressed men and and made them
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upset but when they were cheating and they were shocked it made men satisfied it gave them a
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dopamine hit but for women it made them equally upset whether they were cheating or whether they
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were playing fairly yeah they didn't care they didn't care about like punishment they don't they
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don't want any form of punishment on anyone yeah be it just or not yeah which is a another key
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flashpoint in modern society the the key division being those who wish to enforce our laws and those
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who do not though at a recent dinner party it was chatham house rules but someone that many of you
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will know well as a major like thought leader pointed out that for a very long time it is
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it has been a debate in society about enforcing rules it was like uncool to enforce laws so
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yeah it's not necessarily new but when when did they say this was true
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like since the 1960s okay that's not a long time okay fair enough it's a long time it is
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relevant because you know i pointed out that the the quakers were incredibly against enforcing
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rules and uh you're all about you didn't visit the right person after you got married you'd be
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like frozen out of your quaker society they had a two-step process after you got married and if
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you did any part are you kidding me it was like i said 22 22 yes continue anyway anyway so in
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addition to the sorry additional research that she cites is primate stuff like how males are
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quicker to reconcile after conflict whereas female primates show a lot more of that like
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slow burn resentment that you get with women yeah so she's just trying to sort of generalize to say
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that men both as primates and as homo sapiens tend toward open and rapidly resolved conflict
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whereas women tend to undermine and ostracize and make things a lot more long term. And then
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she cites three sort of salient examples in her argument. She talks about Larry Summer's
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resignation from Harvard in 2006 after he made comments about women in science. Feels like just
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yesterday, which is crazy. That was 20 years ago. And then Barry Rice's resignation from the New York
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Times in which she described colleagues calling her a racist and a bigot and an internal slack,
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how people even who are just friendly with her were shunned and she also describes doctors
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wearing political pins and endorsing black lives matter protests during by the way i love barry
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weiss's story there that that turned around on those people's faces yeah i mean seems to be
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working out pretty well for her yeah right but yeah the doctors were endorsing going to protests
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even though it was a public health risk to the lockdown rules and like violating lockdown rules
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um and explain how that works integrating remember how during COVID-19 a lot of doctors
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that's relevant to the woman thing explain the connection there oh she's she's describing how
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uh an increase in women in the medical profession led for a shift in emphasizing
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sort of emotion and sentiment and care like concerns about social justice over like
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literally concerns about human health um and so that's when doctors became useless
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yeah they're like who cares about transmitting covid go out to the lives matter protests
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so you know that bothers me because you know that they won't emphasize palliative care because they
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just want to keep people alive even when they only have like terrible quality of life left but
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like yeah go ahead die as long as it's going to a black lives matter protest and in terms of the
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causes she cited for this and some of the primary criticism that she actually gets for this is she
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doesn't really get really into like how to fix the problem but she does point out that basically
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legalizing a lot of this was a big source of the issue that by making organizations more liable
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discrimination and and making anti-discrimination lawsuits a lot easier to do the workplaces had
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to become more female-friendly places and they couldn't really tell you to get this weird female
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behavior and then if for example in an organization you have an under-representation of women and then
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you're therefore exposed to lawsuits you're going to get a lot more women when you're going to have
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people do anything they can to avoid the risk she also mentions that like basically once you get
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this like tipping point of women in an organization you just kind of create this de facto hostile to
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men environment i'm so sorry he's just well i mean i think something that's really important
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with all of this and it's something that i think parts of our audience miss because they molder
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over the unfairness of all of this in terms of the life paths that they told were open to them
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when they were growing up and then going into the traditional workforce is that a lot of these
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companies are failing at this point. They are falling apart in terms of their ability to
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competently produce products. It is quite shocking, actually, that when we look at the cutting edge
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AIs right now, which are obviously the cutting edge of technology, require huge amounts of
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investment, very competent teams, everything like that, right? You would expect, because unlike
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previous generations of transfer, when you go from one generation of tech to the next, typically
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the history was, is that the new tech required very little money to operate and could be done
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very inexpensively. And even though during this one particular technological revolution, this is
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not as much the case it is still the new and young ai companies that are dominating it is not the
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gemini's it is not whatever the hell microsoft made copilot it's it's not the facebook it's not
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the i mean facebook is maybe no llama is terrible it's it's not apple apple ai is like an actual
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joke it's not uh adobe it's not you know it's not any of the mainstream players right it's it's it's
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the little guys it's your groks and your mistrals and your open ais and anthropics and everything
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like that and so the question is is how is this even conceivable and the answer is that the
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organizations that live for a long period of time feminize so quickly and adopt feminine
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institutional norms that they are no longer able to compete and this is why if you go to like our
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website like our fab.ai a lot of people are like wow you're like super search feature is like
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really good in terms of like using ai to cross check ai across multiple models like why are none
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of the big companies using this note this morning we are uploading the ability on rfab.ai to on
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super search upload things like documents and spreadsheets so improving every day oh you have
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like a card game that uses ai that's i haven't seen this implemented before oh your chatbot system's
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better than most of your chatbot system are you just like two people building this and it's like
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yeah you know um the the reason we've been able to do this is because we are not bogged down by
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the giant self-referencing bureaucracy and a lot of people i think get mad at being frozen out of
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parts of the tech space right now when the reality is is the parts of the tech industry that are
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being monopolized are going to collapse and the people who have invested yeah i think you're
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even mentioning this like in light of of people talking about like immigrant raising them out
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like yeah if you're in a company that is like mass importing what you see to be incompetent
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immigrants that company's not long for this world anyway exactly you should be able to outcompete
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what that company is doing right like if they're mass importing incompetent immigrants then
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presumably the quality of the product's going to go down if the quality of the product doesn't go
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down, then they didn't need you anyway, or the immigrants weren't as incompetent as you thought
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they were. And I think that that's really a critical point, right? So the question is,
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is then people are like, well, you've got natural monopolies. And yes, natural monopolies matter,
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but you can still break natural monopolies. It has happened multiple, sorry, for people who don't
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understand what a natural monopoly is. Typically in industries that involve two-sided marketplaces,
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search, social media, these are good examples of them. You typically get a case in which one
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and the largest company ends up being 85% of the market. And we have seen these dominate for a
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long time in something like search or advertisement, or those are really the only two where I know
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Amazon, Amazon is the third one, but they're not as stable as you would think. So if you look at
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something like social media, social media is a natural monopoly that's undergone multiple
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disruptions throughout our lifetimes, where one brand was completely eradicated almost another
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is online dating. Online dating is a two-sided marketplace that has undergone complete
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transformations multiple times in our lifetime. So you can disrupt this if you can create a better
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product. Oh, another one that's undergone complete disruption is instant messaging systems. Instant
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messaging is a two-sided marketplace that has undergone multiple enormous disruptions. Obviously
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the biggest one that we would want to see disrupted is video streaming, but it is incredibly expensive
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to do which is one of the reasons it hasn't been and a lot of yeah it's it's it's difficult which
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you would really need to do is have a site like if i was going to attempt to compete with youtube
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which rumble is i not doing it the way i would do it is to essentially mirror and host youtube
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videos alongside uh the videos that my own site hosted that couldn't easily be taken down so there
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is no cost to somebody to switch over to my site in terms of the videos that they like on youtube
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and you could do this legally just use an embedding where they get the money for all that
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hosting i guess something disruptive could change that and make it more affordable you don't need
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to host the youtube videos they're hosted on youtube's back end all the videos that you're
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they're just basically embedded videos that are acting as if they're videos okay i get it i get
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it but again this is just like just think through this stuff right like yeah anyway what i think is
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interesting i mean like to her point just in terms of talking through the the argument she
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made and whether it has merit i do think it's interesting that she points out this tipping
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point but one issue is that like if this is the problem if the problem is women entering these
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formerly male-dominated fields, what percentage of women is too many? Because when you actually
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look at medicine, okay, yes, over 50% of medical students are now female, but by 2010, only around
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like a third of women in medicine, sorry, of people in medicine, professionals in medicine
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were female. So that's not that much. And women, I mean, that's compared with only 9.7%
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in 1970 but like is 30 percent too much like because 2006 is the first example of this
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cancellation being an issue like presumably by 2010 that was already an issue I'm not sure like
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when is when is too many women too many women also looking at law so in 1970 only 4.9 percent
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of lawyers were women and then by 2010 it was similar to medical professions and women about
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a third of women sorry a third of lawyers were women and then by 2024 it's 41 but it's not that
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most women are sorry most lawyers are women it's just that there's more women than ever before
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so part of me wonders like where's the tipping point because they're not necessarily female
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dominated and also an important point is that all really most leadership positions still are
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overwhelmingly male dominated okay so if you actually look at like the leadership of every
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major company you're not gonna you're not gonna see that many women women hold only 27 percent
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of u.s medical school dean positions and 25 percent of department chair roles even though
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really misleading in an illusion specifically what creates this illusion is for the very most
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senior of roles most of them were fought over a couple decades ago so a lot of you think there's
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just a big delay when it comes to senior leadership yeah a lot of people in these roles are in their
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70s right like of course they're overwhelmingly male the world was different back then so i do
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not think it's it's meaningful to point that out okay because i mean it's also the same like women
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are only 38 of c-suite positions in america again that was the average age of a c-suite position in
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america yeah okay so you just think that there's a delay there because part of me wonders if men
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are still dominant in these positions is this kind of a competitive tactic to get rid of middle
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management that are men who could potentially supplant them and just replace them with less
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competent, less engaged women who are also less likely to supplant them, thereby solidifying their
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position in leadership. Like it's a gerontocratic status maintenance strategy. You don't think
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that's at play? No, it's just that they're old. Like as the workforce ages up, it seems very
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obvious to me. C-suits are going to become increasingly female, as we've already seen.
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In fact, I would go so far as to argue, if you just look at the math of when women began to
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dominate management positions and then age it forwards, you're going to see C-suit positions
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changing at the same rate. The only place where this really changes is outside of major companies.
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If you're talking at companies that were still run by their original founder, and if you're
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looking at companies still run by their original founder, of course, it'll be overwhelmingly male
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who are being frozen out of the workforce right now.
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It's just like, if you're a competent woman,
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women in law school faculty are now the majority
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among those with 20 years of experience or less.
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so i guess per what you're saying we can expect leadership to be majority female in most fields
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going forward at least like medical law academia and also i mean similar things are happening in
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government i mean even historically government was in terms of like federal jobs and stuff there
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were a lot of women working in government but now it actually is plateaued since the 2000s
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It plateaued around 45 to 46%, which is more representative of just the percentage of women
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in the workforce. So I guess government isn't that good at representing it. But now in terms
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of like House of Representatives, as of 2023, 28.5% of House of Representatives members were
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women and in the senate it was 25 in 2023 so it's still a minority so i also wonder like
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how many how what percentage of women is too many i'm just not sure yeah well i mean
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keep in mind congressmen and senators are enormously old so again it's it's not as
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relevant but continue i guess that's fair well they don't exercise that much control
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like the new york times i think is an outlier in terms of being majority women because of
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as of 2022 only 40 40 percent of journalists in the u.s were women 44 percent in television 43
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percent in radio 41 percent in newspapers 37 percent of daily newspapers 34 percent of wire
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services so but with a lot of newspaper media it's it's really irrelevant and this is again
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what I'm talking about. As these institutions feminized, they became irrelevant. As Hollywood
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feminized, it became irrelevant. As newspapers feminized, they became irrelevant. We are seeing
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a society where yes, women, immigrants, Indians may capture organizations, but often not long
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after they do, if they are not competent, those organizations begin to erode in terms of their
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ability to innovate in market dominance. Well, speaking of erosion, it could be that
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this feminization theory, while it has its merits also, it's like a short-lived phenomenon. And as
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you pointed out, it's kind of toxic. And I mean, you point this out extensively in the
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pragmatist guide to crafting religion. Call it feminization, call it the woke mind virus,
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whatever you want to call it, urban monoculture. It is parasitoidal, as you say, like it just
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destroys the things that it takes over. And when you look at where you see the fewest women,
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I think that's where we're going to see the greatest takeover over time. So if you look at,
1.00
00:26:52.320
for example, startups, women just aren't there. For over a decade, only about 2%
1.00
00:26:59.260
of venture-backed startups are exclusively female-founded. And that's down, actually,
00:27:04.840
i think from before so well yeah i mean i there was a period like a point of pride to fund a
00:27:12.340
female startup and that's not even a thing anymore like the female startup roots have
00:27:15.400
mostly dissolved because everybody realized it was stupid to give women money yeah well there
0.80
00:27:20.360
were some high profile busts yeah some high profile busts yeah i think so it's actually
0.75
00:27:29.240
more than that so both of us worked in venture capital and if you have worked with all female
0.99
00:27:34.020
founding teams, even when their companies are doing good, they're often kind of delusional
0.83
00:27:38.800
about like how management should work, how their team should work, how they construct things,
00:27:45.260
what they should actually be focused on. So even where I've seen a female founded company,
0.84
00:27:50.840
you know, just serendipitously take off, it is a nightmare wrangling female CEOs into not
1.00
00:27:57.600
self-sabotaging because they constantly want to focus on whatever sort of messaging is capturing
0.97
00:28:03.220
them that day i i cannot imagine and i bemoan our audience so much having to marry women whereas i
00:28:11.160
got to marry an autist like simone that that's her gender by the way yeah i don't count
00:28:17.760
right i identify as re and those are my pronouns really though like i think the the best thing
00:28:28.140
about married couples is their pronouns become we and they so is those are those your neo pronouns
00:28:36.180
yeah my neo pronouns are we they so whatever but also another important thing i think to note
00:28:45.040
and i think this is only going to become a lot more profound as ai rises female workforce
00:28:50.500
participation is actually below its peak so women's labor first participation it peaked at 60
00:28:57.520
percent in the 1999-2000 range, which I didn't know. I didn't know that it got so high for women
00:29:04.540
and then declined to 57.5 percent as of March 2025. So it's below the rate of meds, which is 67.5
00:29:14.360
percent. And right now, women are 47 percent of the total U.S. workforce and that it's going to
1.00
00:29:22.780
probably remain slightly less than half but that's what projections say i think as ai rises
00:29:30.040
i would not be at all surprised if in the 2030s we saw it dip well below 45 possibly even go to 44
00:29:40.280
and then go even further below in the 2040s to 40 so we'll see well but i mean we already saw this
1.00
00:29:50.640
in after doge which we've talked about in our episode where like wokes abandoned black women
00:29:55.760
where we point out that there is a huge glut of black female unemployment right now because the
00:30:00.540
organizations that were captured by dei and over employing them collapsed at the same time as
00:30:06.620
government services partially due to doge stopped hiring people solely based on dei
00:30:11.880
and a lot of black women had made that basically their entire career and it's caused a 50 explosion
00:30:18.280
in black female unemployment in just the last year yeah so so we're actually already seeing
00:30:25.500
the fallout of this yeah well because it's it's inherently unsustainable and i think in the end
00:30:30.700
like if you resolve conflicts by not actually resolving them by shadow banning and canceling
00:30:36.460
people you're going to let problems fester and i shared with you on whatsapp this graph that went
00:30:42.060
a little bit viral on x this week that showed a trajectory of basically like the male response
00:30:48.360
to conflict resolution versus the film female response to conflict resolution it's a graph
00:30:54.620
where did you send this functional system to dysfunctional system i'll resend it to you on
00:30:58.960
what's up now are you talking about eons you retweeted it okay that graph oh yeah okay yeah
00:31:05.920
i know what you're talking about okay continue i mean this is this is reflected in leaflet's
00:31:10.400
latest song is basically about this as a theory you know you've got a unkind truth to unkind truth
00:31:17.880
to unkind truth makes a functional system become more functional versus kind lie to kind lie to
00:31:23.860
kind line makes a dysfunctional system even more dysfunctional over time or any system more
00:31:29.560
dysfunctional and that's basically just the difference between male and female conflict
00:31:35.260
resolution and also just general treatment of issues in general like women is through various
0.90
00:31:42.800
forms of intrasexual competition and mate guarding will tell other women oh like eat that piece of
00:31:49.700
cake or you do look great or you know dump him even when they really shouldn't be told that
00:31:56.780
and it ultimately is to their detriment whereas men will be like dude you're getting fat or like
00:32:03.720
no you know she's out of your league anyway you should you know end up and be a better partner
00:32:09.200
like that you you see men telling each other the unkind truths and that's i think why ultimately
00:32:14.060
they're kind of behind most of society's major innovations because you're not going to get
00:32:19.580
why or even the primary reason men innovate more than women just testosterone is that
00:32:25.300
neurological differences and then what also being smarter on average i didn't say that i just said
00:32:33.060
neurological differences sociological differences come on simone we're not we're not going for a
00:32:39.220
channel ban here okay i wonder what would recognizing that men are on average smarter
00:32:45.680
than women get us in trouble yeah it would get us in trouble simone so we don't recognize that
00:32:52.580
so we never yeah we wait we're speaking in hypotheticals of course yeah hypotheticals
0.91
00:32:58.740
only come on simone i'm not the smarter one in this relationship it's clearly you this is why
00:33:04.700
you're doing all the analysis for surely surely you can hypothetically be the smarter one
00:33:11.160
hypothetically yeah yeah so let's just say hypothetically but i mean
00:33:19.420
so the biggest criticism that helen andrews faced with is that she had no solution
00:33:24.880
and i guess the only solution we've proposed so far is don't worry it solves itself like put
00:33:30.700
women in charge well no it solves itself if you are diligent in guarding against it as we rebuild
00:33:38.540
the economy ourselves with our yeah i mean the most practical solution for the problems that
00:33:44.160
she points out is don't make companies liable for being male-friendly spaces or for being female
00:33:51.940
hostile spaces but how like how functionally do you do that repeal loss well yeah you know i i
0.98
00:34:00.660
think you look at our fab and we don't hire any women we've got you working on it and that's it
00:34:05.860
and like calling you a woman feels a little perverse within the current ecosystem i think
00:34:12.120
your larger solution is not hiring humans though so i don't know if that counts
0.77
00:34:15.920
yeah well i mean humans are also pretty terrible
00:34:27.860
because people are such a bunch of bastards
0.99
00:34:36.060
oh well now that's not fair roy have you met all of them
1.00
00:34:39.460
i've met enough of them people what a bunch of bastards
1.00
00:34:47.260
but i don't know i think i think just removing legal liability is probably one of the biggest
00:34:55.800
things but i think there's also a cultural element of celebrating to the point of bronze
00:35:03.260
age pervert actually male only spaces like a lot of a lot of men online have celebrated this idea
00:35:11.300
of a return to the only spaces and i encountered some people like when i was in austin a couple
00:35:18.300
weeks ago who were really excited to start like men's clubs like private invite only men's clubs
00:35:24.560
i don't know man like even men still want to interact in taylor lorenz is talking about how
00:35:34.440
now the high class and trendy thing to do no i'm telling you even highly left is taylor lorenz
00:35:40.560
i just watched her on a podcast today was talking about how the high class thing to do now is to
00:35:45.800
meet people in person and hang out in person and i could absolutely see it being very trendy
00:35:51.020
to only do stuff in person going forward mark my words i'm seeing it there's like not among the
00:35:56.880
high class people i know among the high class people i know i'm seeing the exact opposite
00:36:00.740
in person is increasingly terminally online set no i'm talking about the ones i know who used to
00:36:06.960
be offline people right like the the upper class people i know who used to socialize offline no
00:36:14.600
longer do now i mean here's an example simone brian chow right like he's talked to us about
00:36:20.100
the way he does socialization now oh my god no no no no that's the problem is he has shifted to
00:36:27.380
being literally someone who is employed and working for network state no i know he's working
00:36:33.540
for network school communities that he is most proud of being a member of and associates most
00:36:39.540
with are things like signal groups and stuff like that they are not personal networking events or
00:36:44.740
anything like that because the reality is is that if you are engaging he literally his life now
00:36:50.740
i understand but that doesn't mean that's his social life in person city right and the point
00:36:56.700
i'm making is despite that that is not his social life and that shows how severe yes it is among
00:37:05.020
you have you you haven't talked with him recently about his social life if you look at it i read
00:37:11.700
all of his sub stack posts to you okay i haven't read his recent subject so you're saying he's
00:37:16.460
regularly socializing in person yes that's what you do in network school no no no no no no no
00:37:24.440
i am not talking about your subjective guess around what happens in network states
00:37:29.960
you read posts about him going to in-person parties and events yeah he's alluded to them
00:37:36.760
alluded to them because the last time i talked to him he talked about signal groups being the
00:37:43.640
core source of power in his society and it makes that was a long time ago no no no even if you're
00:37:47.840
in a network state so just think about this rationally suppose you're a man and you're
00:37:52.400
rational, Simone. So I know this is going to take a lot of work, so try to get there with me, okay?
00:37:58.180
You care about moving up in the world, about associating with people who are in positions
00:38:04.200
of power within your industry, right? Or within some industry tangential enough to yours,
00:38:09.520
or within an intellectual space tangential to yours, okay? What is the probability that the
00:38:15.880
leaders, the intellectual leaders or the economic leaders of those communities are going to happen
00:38:22.300
to be in your network state, even if your network state is highly selective, virtually zero. This is
00:38:29.160
also true of your asking in your city, in your area, in your state. And so if you're actually
00:38:35.000
being like a man and efficient, you don't bother with that. You instead focus on gaining access to
00:38:42.860
the digital isolated environments, because this is where you can interact with the actual world
00:38:49.460
leaders was in a field regularly instead of the social masturbation that happens in something
00:38:55.900
like a network state i don't know we'll have to ask him but i i hear you still i guess what
00:39:07.780
did you have any other proposed solutions to the great humanization that's the point you replace
0.55
00:39:15.480
them and the people who were so indulgent that they wanted to meet up in person the the wussy
0.91
00:39:19.880
men who thought that that was their solution they're smoking clubs and stuff you replace them
0.89
00:39:25.040
too because you're going to be in the clubs with the people who are actually running the world
00:39:29.840
and they're in the clubs with the people who like to socially signal to other men which is
00:39:35.400
kind of fey okay it's like watching football or something i understand that like we're supposed
00:39:43.960
to pretend it's masculine as a society but like as an autistic external objective observer it
00:39:51.300
appears pretty fey to me i i just it does and it is indulgent and so it doesn't lead to these
0.91
00:39:59.760
sorts of positive outcomes so it's easy to outmaneuver these people be they men or
00:40:08.160
i think what by this definition you think anyone who engages in leisure activity is
00:40:15.920
no i think there are efficient ways to engage in leisure activities and there are inefficient
00:40:21.660
ways to engage in leisure activities for example if i want to let's talk about efficient versus
00:40:27.900
inefficient okay let's look at a hobby like gaming which is fairly efficient versus a hobby like
00:40:34.480
let's say tennis or scuba diving, which are fairly inefficient. Okay. So I want to go.
00:40:43.260
Scuba diving. Now I need to commute. I need to get my tank ready. I need to sit on the dock. I
00:40:48.960
need to go out early in the morning. So irrespective of when I might be efficient at working during that
00:40:54.360
time of day, I then have to get everything ready, everything prepped, go out. I cannot multitask.
00:41:00.620
with gaming i can have a game open in one tab and a vibe coding session open in another tab
00:41:05.900
i didn't lose like an entire day on a weekend i then come back and i've just lost a day same
00:41:12.420
with let's say tennis so i get all my stuff together i have to then go out and organize
00:41:17.320
with somebody else so we're both free at the same time we then get to a tennis ranch or whatever
00:41:22.960
they call them um and sorry i actually used to play varsity tennis so i'm fairly familiar with
00:41:29.480
it so you you get your tennis court and you you you need to sign up for time by the way so you
00:41:36.760
know you got to get the right timing you get there you play a few rounds when you're also
00:41:41.800
not able to multitask you then have to come home shower which is again another waste of time that
00:41:47.000
you wouldn't have need to do if you were gaming now contrast all of this with something like
00:41:51.200
gaming okay it's the end of the day you don't need to drive out somewhere it's at a time period where
00:41:57.060
you're already your brain's already fried which for some people's early morning some people that's
00:42:01.060
late night and so you're like okay i'm going to do this while i'm tying up the last of whatever x y
00:42:06.860
or z and that's that's very very efficient right like this is why the if you're playing tennis on
00:42:15.240
your computer versus going to a tennis court also it's fairly inexpensive it's one of the least
00:42:19.960
expensive hobbies there is as long as you're not engaged in the gambling aspect of it like loot
00:42:25.060
boxes and stuff like that if you're just playing a video game contrast that with owning a country
00:42:31.020
club or you know subscription or maintaining your scuba equipment or you know just buying a new
00:42:37.540
nice certifications and the travel and the specialized clothing and the gas oh and don't
00:42:44.620
forget your tennis club membership yeah and the potential parking and the you know all of this
00:42:51.020
is so expensive such a waste i mean this is true of so so so many hobbies there are a few other
00:42:58.380
efficient hobbies walking hiking biking and these are efficient because while you cannot multitask
00:43:05.520
while you can do them they at least give you exercise and can be done right from your front
00:43:09.580
porch yeah depending on where you you live i mean there are ways to do these hobbies that are
00:43:14.320
incredibly inefficient and there's ways to do gaming that's incredibly inefficient but there's
00:43:17.780
some hobbies that there's just virtually no efficient way to do them and this is what i'm
00:43:22.380
talking about here right like that people pretend like these things are the same and they're not the
00:43:26.600
same and i i just like and this this is where people get get mad at us at the channel or whatever
00:43:32.780
so much they're like oh you guys are so i don't know puritanical about recreation but about doing
00:43:38.340
recreation efficiently and i think that the latest leaflet song goes into this by the way
00:43:43.220
is not overdoing recreation and staying healthy and everything.
00:44:13.220
but you've done a good job of keeping me healthy
00:44:30.900
ish i mean i'm healthy again now we have now that your blood work isn't we just got our
00:44:38.180
blood work back. Yeah. So last year I had gotten to a point where I was drinking more again to the
00:44:44.260
point where my, my levels of a few things, cause I get this measured regularly went up and I just
00:44:48.900
got my blood work back and they all went back to normal because diligence, right? You don't let
00:44:54.540
the thing control you. You don't need to focus. You don't need to design your entire life around
00:44:59.000
avoiding a thing. Just stay within the measured variables. Glad I worked out. I'm glad you're
00:45:06.240
okay but yeah and the the the sorts of ideas that we're talking about i think are are difficult
1.00
00:45:13.220
like if you even begin to bring this up with a woman like well i mean you don't want to
0.99
00:45:17.460
be friends with somebody who is of zero utility to you you know they'd be confused and angry right
00:45:22.820
like they hurt you in their well here's yeah i mean here's the struggle then with great feminization
00:45:27.720
theory is like how can we reconcile acknowledging this theory and still encourage men to get
00:45:38.280
married well women become very efficient when they are subservient to a man this is the difference
1.00
00:45:45.620
right and i've pointed this out in some way i mean like in modern culture women are strongly
0.74
00:45:51.700
discouraged from women want to do it they want a man to work for they do they want to do it they
00:45:59.500
want to be inspired by who you are and what your goals are you do want to be inspired by yeah they
0.98
00:46:04.960
want to be inspired by it but are there enough inspirational men right like i mean i sometimes
00:46:10.900
feel very i feel hypocritical no this idea i don't i don't buy this and some people in our comments
00:46:17.960
have argued this and i just they're like well not every man can have like sky high ambitions for
00:46:23.120
how he wants to change the world and i'm like yes they can they absolutely can you don't need to
00:46:28.760
succeed in your ambitions simone doesn't value me because i succeed in all my ambitions she values
00:46:35.300
me because i have them and i earnestly strive for them i haven't yeah i mean to also i think we know
00:46:41.480
there's some people have pushed back on us in comments saying like look i'm happy enough to
00:46:46.100
just raise a successful next generation like to just raise good kids who are going to make you
00:46:52.060
know the world a better place and make the next generation good which is totally in line with
00:46:56.860
our mission and our interest in promoting human flourishing like Malcolm has really really big
00:47:01.860
ambitions but not everyone has to be like I'm going to change the world just raising good kids
00:47:07.100
is huge and very impactful I think that the key thing is we're not saying that for a man to be
00:47:13.900
attractive he has to plan on like world domination we're saying for a man to be attractive he has to
00:47:19.080
know who he is be extremely confident in who he is and know what he's all about like hey i am going
00:47:25.440
to raise a successful family provide for that family like build a good you know future generation
00:47:31.780
create a great childhood for my kids and make the world better by doing that and i hear my beliefs
0.99
00:47:37.240
and i know what i'm all about women find that really attractive like you don't have to take
00:47:41.840
over the world you don't have to be delusional yes you do so this this comes to what we were
00:47:47.020
talking about earlier today when i was trying to understand how nick fuentes had gotten so
00:47:51.420
one-shotted by society that now his stated goals are not at all served by his actual actions
00:47:57.780
and i'd say this is somebody who can sympathize with him because i think we have a lot of similar
00:48:02.220
motivations but he's basically crashed out like as i pointed out in the recent video
00:48:06.820
similar motivations like what the the fame whorishness or something else well no i mean yes
00:48:12.300
we we both are narcissistic fame whores who come off as a bit faded people but you're not no you're
00:48:18.540
not a narcissist you like you like fame i think he does too and you like attention and i think he
0.51
00:48:23.540
does too but you are not a nurse it's not just that i mean we both realize many of the same
00:48:28.520
problems with society people downplaying cultural and ethno differences people thinking you can just
00:48:35.960
import anyone forever into the country. Like many of the problems that we diagnose about society
00:48:41.840
today are very similar, but the way that he has gone about it is completely unlikely to have any
00:48:47.840
sort of efficacious result. Not unlikely, it's virtual impossibility from his actions. And anyone
00:48:54.720
who is thinking clearly could see that. And so I began to think, how did he so bad in terms of his
00:49:01.540
logic and what occurred to me because he began to i get to think of him as like one of those in
00:49:07.420
anime there's this common trope of somebody gets like a an evil bug on their back or something
00:49:14.180
like that that turns them into an evil version of themselves that like fuels like one like negative
00:49:21.160
character trait they have until that character trait it defines everything that they're doing
00:49:26.160
and then they turn into some sort of like big bad putty or something shugachara is an anime where
00:49:30.780
this happens as an example but but it's a very common trope in in animes and shows for for
00:49:35.820
children but he sort of he he doesn't come across like a bad guy to me he comes across somebody
00:49:39.720
who's been sort of infected by like a hate a hate bug that has ended up making him unable to see
00:49:46.900
that he's destroying the very thing that he claims to want to save nick you're the man with three
00:49:53.660
white girls that's the dream lol that's the dream like live in the dream three daughters
0.99
00:50:09.740
Wow, a lot of manis and petties, a lot of tea parties and drama.
00:50:18.900
Women talk to me and my eyes just glaze over.
1.00
00:50:22.200
So I can't imagine being in a house with four of them.
1.00
00:50:29.300
i would need a lot of vacations and a lot of whores or something just like you would need
1.00
00:50:35.840
some kind of extramarital affair to keep it going i feel like that is the only way i could stay sane
1.00
00:50:40.620
in a life like that why'd you have to leave with that he said uh hey i got three white girls living
0.99
00:50:46.880
the dream but the girl dad rightism shit was gay first for people who cannot tell or do not know
0.99
00:50:55.180
people who've done cocaine he's clearly out of his mind on cocaine in this you can tell because
0.99
00:50:59.880
of the way he's talking and he keeps rubbing his nose which is not a normal human behavior
00:51:03.620
to be doing that as frequently as he's doing that but i so i i do you know give him some
00:51:10.140
leniency on the things he's saying here like as time has gone on nick has clearly been captured
00:51:15.200
by his demons and so there's no way he can achieve what he says he wants to achieve in life or
00:51:20.800
motivate his fans to do this when he's like being mean to somebody who's reaching out to him and
00:51:25.900
expressing admiration to him for doing the very thing that he's telling his fans to do
00:51:30.920
i'm not even mean to my fans when they have different opinions like just to be mean like this
00:51:36.840
to to a stranger for doing what you're telling them to do like the deep evil that has to have
00:51:43.240
taken root in your heart and not just that but the people who are like well nick fuentes shows so
00:51:49.200
much self-control here he's literally saying oh if i had a bunch of daughters i would cheat on my
00:51:53.520
wife like even if i had a perfect wife who was wholly dedicated to me and due to something
00:51:57.860
completely outside of her control having boys instead of girls i just end up cheating on her
00:52:02.620
and yeah i guess just like as time has gone on i feel more pity for nick because in a different
00:52:09.240
world maybe i could have gone down his pathway if i had less self-control if i was raised in a
00:52:15.160
different religious background if i you know who knows it's it's a very very sad to see this happen
00:52:21.560
and to see him admonish people who look up to him when they do do what he presumably wants people
00:52:28.080
to do but it's i mean it's clear again revealed preferences versus claimed preferences it's clear
00:52:33.580
that is not his revealed preference to actually start a family and have kids and everything like
00:52:37.560
that and i just wish i could better communicate to people that like allowing his ideology to
00:52:45.980
spread within you will eventually destroy you as a human being there there is no positive into this
00:52:52.700
like contrast this was like leaflet song right like that's that's positivity that's future his
00:52:58.180
is just destructivity at this point uh and it's really really sad to see um i do not think that
00:53:04.540
him and i are particularly different in the problems that we see in society it's just that
00:53:09.680
his again like one of those hate bugs has been so corrupted that um it's all he can see anymore
00:53:16.140
or another good analogy would be like the orcs from warhammer who drink the demonic ichor to
00:53:22.380
enhance their worst qualities but make them stronger you know it makes him stronger in the
00:53:27.900
algorithm but it leads all those who follow him to ruin this sort of demonic pact that he has made
00:53:33.740
He's still an orc. He's still, at least in his own way, trying to be on our side.
00:53:39.920
But he is so corrupted that he fundamentally is as big a threat to us as those who oppose us.
00:53:46.980
Dream, claim your destiny. You will all be conquerors.
00:54:29.220
agree i mean what we talked about also is that a key difference is that
00:54:40.740
you and other people that we really like and admire like leaflet have a very clear vision
00:54:46.520
of the future well that's what i was going to say is is that the reason why the hate bug has
00:54:51.680
gotten him and it hasn't easily gotten some of the other influencers i watched i was trying to
00:54:56.700
think of like what creates this differentiation and looking at leaflets recent content because
00:55:02.460
i've been working with her she's actually really helped me in developing the vtuber thing on rfab
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that's going to be coming out soon saved me a significant amount of work was one of the leads
00:55:10.940
she gave me today but anyway so that's the reason she comes up a lot is because i'm working with
00:55:15.140
her and i'm talking with her daily so very top of mind but anyway so she has a very clear vision
00:55:22.140
And we have a very clear vision of where we want human civilization to be in 50 years, in 100 years, in 200 years, right? And I don't think he has one of those. And because he doesn't have a clear vision of where society is going to be, it's just like society is going to be where society is going to be.
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It's very easy for the grievances of the current culture war to overwhelm his sort of psychology to the point where he can no longer think what are the long term actions if I attempt to blow up this alliance or this alliance or, you know, do not care about this encroaching group or that encroaching group.
00:56:00.880
And I think that the hate bug can get you if all you care about is being a good family man.
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Because if all you care about is being a good family man, you can accidentally lean into performing the trope of the family man in the same way a woman can perform the trope of the mom instead of focusing on a concrete outcome.
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I want to raise kids to have this effect on society because I see this future civilizational state as ideal.
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now both can be part of the same action it's just how are you framing it which is why this goes also
00:56:35.080
it's connected to your deontology versus consequentialism argument that always comes
00:56:39.880
yeah but i realize that that arguing about it on a deontology versus that can be a little hard for
00:56:45.200
people to grok but the idea of just either you have a vision for where you want society to be
00:56:51.420
in 100 years or you don't yeah basically is your ship just blowing wherever the winds blow
00:56:57.220
or are you actively navigating in a specific direction towards some kind of true north
00:57:02.680
and are you shifting your sails in response to the wind blowing you where you may not want to go
00:57:07.800
i actually think a better way to word this is not just is your ship going where the wind goes
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but there's sort of three categories of people like there's a truly lazy person who is allowing
00:57:18.360
their ship to just blow wherever the wind blows but then there's the other person who might be
00:57:22.580
incredibly hard working but they spend all of the time just trying to make sure their ship is the
00:57:27.100
prettiest ship there is without particular care for where it's going right and these are the people
00:57:32.420
who strive to have the perfect family that follows all the rules or the perfect deontological life
00:57:37.160
that follows every rule and every command and everything like that and they'll often be like
00:57:42.360
well god will just take me in the right direction if i do all of that and that leads to really
00:57:46.740
negative externalities and it and it's not biblically i mean i always go through the the
00:57:55.940
helicopters so I'm not going to go over that again
00:57:57.940
you can go over our track series if you're interested
00:58:21.340
are you sure i have some lo mein leftover just a little bit oh you do have lo mein
00:58:26.460
yeah if you want i could just walk it up to your room i can i can stir can i have it can i have it
00:58:31.300
the next day yeah because you gave me eggs today and i had chips and salsa today and i had whole
00:58:38.540
milk today so that's a lot are you gonna get scurvy i'm not yeah that is not how scurvy works
00:59:14.740
but are you sure i'm sure i'm sure i'm not hungry
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i find you a little you know you've done i am a woman i'm sorry i'm very sorry
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joking by the way i love you all right have a good one
00:59:37.800
i sent it on whatsapp oh yeah the old dinosaur titan yeah doesn't it look a lot like her today
00:59:49.040
looks just like her today very very similar attitude to modern titan this morning though
00:59:56.380
she decided she was a cat and every time i asked her questions you said titan do you want this or
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can you do that she's like no my cat meow she did a lot of meowing so she's really you did that
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as a kid too right you pretended to be a cat i 100% did that i wonder if there's some
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it's just a little girl thing i don't think it's like a genetic thing but i mean you know
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fortunately we're not into all that trans furry stuff or we'd be like oh you've got her furry
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tail and furry ears you've got her ethereum kid right we're gonna have to transition her
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01:00:31.740
that was you dude you bought that stuff on amazon jacuz have you have you given it back to her now
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that she thinks she's a cat so she can dress up like i need to no i'll go i'll get it out this
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weekend i'm 100 getting that out okay that's fantastic i will kick us off and unless you
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Because you were the kind of impetus for doing this.