Based Camp - Hamza： How the Red Pill Can Destroy Your Life

00:00:00.000 Basically, I'm starting the fatherhood chapter of my life.

00:00:03.020 We're not pregnant just yet, but we've moved to the Scottish Highlands.

00:00:08.400 The reason why me and my ex split up is I told her to sit down and to write down her goals.

00:00:13.480 And I wrote, you know what?

00:00:14.200 I want to move to a big city.

00:00:15.720 You will not find this kind of woman who will fit with this lifestyle in a big, major city. 1.00

00:00:20.740 Why? 0.56

00:00:21.020 The women who are in the big cities are their glorified Instagram prostitution. 1.00

00:00:25.340 I actually want to have a few sleepless nights.

00:00:28.100 I want to have a few sleep-deprived nights where I stay up late.

00:00:31.240 Bro, for the last few years, I've went to sleep at 7, 8 p.m.

00:00:34.240 You couldn't imagine the amount of parties and social events and dinners that I've missed.

00:00:38.420 I know what goes on in these parties.

00:00:40.020 And the issue was that the girls that I was meeting from these places, just like I was as well,

00:00:45.980 were all low quality.

00:00:47.180 It's a low-quality place to be.

00:00:48.600 I wanted to be super social.

00:00:50.080 I wanted to have some late nights where we stay up and we're social and there's a party that we go to and everything.

00:00:54.300 But she saw it and I'm not going to lie, I could see how offended she was, where she was quite pressuring.

00:01:00.280 She was like, wait, you want to do this?

00:01:01.460 Oh, you want to do that?

00:01:02.320 You want to stay up late?

00:01:03.120 But that's unhealthy.

00:01:03.920 Those party girls, like the party, low-quality, degenerate TikTok type of girls. 0.98

00:01:08.300 They are attracted to the party, low-quality, degenerate TikTok type of guys.

00:01:12.940 Fine. 1.00

00:01:13.340 Trash can stay with trash. 0.99

00:01:14.680 Because for hers, she wrote that she wanted to do more of the things that we were currently doing. 1.00

00:01:18.440 It's wholesome as fuck. 0.97

00:01:19.520 And you know that she's an awesome girl for that. 0.99

00:01:21.240 She doesn't want to be around, like, you know, like party girls and whatever. 0.98

00:01:24.520 I just realized, like, we're actually going into two separate seasons right now.

00:01:27.940 Fine. 0.99

00:01:28.300 Like, trash can stay with trash. 0.97

00:01:29.680 This is going to sound weird. 1.00

00:01:30.720 You need to be hit in the face. 1.00

00:01:32.980 I will repeat that again. 1.00

00:01:34.380 As a young man, you need to be hit in the face consistently. 0.94

00:01:37.720 But the problem is that when you define your moral system around an aesthetic, it needs

00:01:45.640 to be witnessed to have value.

00:01:48.880 And when he got to the countryside, he didn't have the most affirmation from the social community.

00:01:54.920 Would you like to know more?

00:01:56.260 Hello.

00:01:57.720 Hello, Simone. 0.69

00:01:58.900 Recently, I fell down a rabbit hole trying to learn about this influencer named Hamza. 1.00

00:02:06.060 The men of this country in general, unless they follow me, are fucking weak. 1.00

00:02:09.660 The only strong men in this entire fucking country, in the entire West, are just the 1.00

00:02:13.600 ones who are part of my cult, who have followed my advice and become strong from that. 1.00

00:02:17.480 Every fucking other guy here is basically just a fucking pussy. 1.00

00:02:21.060 They're all just weak as fuck. 1.00

00:02:22.720 If you put some of your money into a company like Apple, or you put it into the big index 1.00

00:02:27.660 funds like Apple and 500 different companies, you're giving them money to help them with

00:02:32.080 their business.

00:02:33.020 And you're hoping that since they think that you're a good boy, they'll give you a little

00:02:36.300 bit more money in return.

00:02:37.660 I think your PP size has to be very small for that.

00:02:40.260 Because if you understand this concept of investing, why would you invest in someone else's

00:02:44.680 business instead of your own?

00:02:46.220 He is a London-based influencer that is seen as like a new big figure in the, I guess

00:02:54.740 I'd call like male aesthetic movement.

00:02:58.840 Like looks-maxing?

00:03:00.700 Not exactly looks-maxing.

00:03:02.560 It's the movement that I would say that an individual like-

00:03:05.760 Right, nationalist?

00:03:07.340 No, Andrew Tate would be a leading figure.

00:03:09.900 Ah, okay.

00:03:10.740 So performative masculinity.

00:03:12.480 Performative masculinity for the sake of performative masculinity. 0.83

00:03:17.840 And I think it's really shown in a lot of his videos because what he asks himself, and

00:03:21.920 you'll actually see this in the Hamza video.

00:03:23.540 So people know he became very famous.

00:03:25.800 He's got like 2.3 million subscribers on YouTube.

00:03:28.760 And regularly in his videos, he will ask himself, should I do X or Y?

00:03:35.300 And the metric he uses when deciding X or Y is, what fulfills my potential as a man?

00:03:43.220 What is the more masculine thing to do?

00:03:46.280 Or the thing that is more like a man to do? 0.61

00:03:48.780 The mediocre man would get the vision that I did, and he would start training a few hours

00:03:52.100 a week.

00:03:52.920 The superior man would go and live in a fight camp.

00:03:57.700 But the superior man, the man who's really like on this, would literally go and live

00:04:02.540 amongst the fighters and the warriors, and live amongst them, eat amongst them, and be

00:04:07.800 revolving around this lifestyle as much as possible.

00:04:11.100 And four months later, he uploads Why I Never Became a Fighter.

00:04:15.080 Well, at least he did give it a whole four months.

00:04:18.220 At the end of the day, the first day of being in this fight camp, I go and sit down and journal

00:04:24.020 in my room, and I just ask myself a question, is this authentic?

00:04:28.060 So you're telling me he quit this newfound metamorphosis after one day?

00:04:32.760 This is going to sound weird. 1.00

00:04:33.840 You need to be hit in the face. 1.00

00:04:36.320 I will repeat that again. 1.00

00:04:37.500 As a young man, you need to be hit in the face consistently. 0.89

00:04:41.020 In The Proud and Discount to Life, where you talk about just like people's objective functions

00:04:44.960 and what they should maximize their existence around, you give thought experiments going over

00:04:49.300 any possible thing, be it hedonism or serving God or negative utilitarianism.

00:04:54.860 Like you're all over the place, right? 0.99

00:04:56.480 The one thing, because you're very unbiased in that book, the one thing that you shit all over 0.95

00:05:00.820 is people whose objective function revolves around an identity or an aesthetic, which is

00:05:07.580 exactly what you're describing here.

00:05:09.300 So hopefully this gets really salty really fast.

00:05:12.780 Yeah.

00:05:13.120 Oh, I'm excited to get salty.

00:05:14.540 And the last time, because we regularly talk about how the problem with gender dysphoria

00:05:20.160 and a gender fixation is not just a problem on the left. 0.96

00:05:24.600 On the left, this was in the trans movement where people make their entire identity, their

00:05:28.540 gender, but is not Andrew Tate's, a huge chunk of his identity, his gender, and the people

00:05:33.860 who follow him following him because they're trying to be more like a perfect man.

00:05:38.460 And in the comments of that video, one of the commenters said, I feel so much better and more

00:05:42.980 fulfilled since I started optimizing around my masculinity or man-like things.

00:05:47.720 And I was like, you sound like a trans person would tell me the same thing.

00:05:51.460 Like I feel so much more fulfilled since I started optimizing my life around my gender.

00:05:55.460 It's not that this isn't able to create a feedback cycle that can make you feel as if

00:06:01.120 you are living a fulfilling life.

00:06:02.720 But like, objectively, peel it back for five seconds.

00:06:08.180 You must realize that none of that matters.

00:06:13.260 Objectively, just because you can feel good by gambling all day or by exercising 24-7.

00:06:21.140 And I'm not saying that's what these individuals do.

00:06:22.700 What I'm doing is I'm creating a comparison here.

00:06:25.460 That doesn't mean that you exercising 24-7 is a thing of value.

00:06:29.220 That doesn't mean when you die, people will be like, wow, he really lived a life of value.

00:06:34.500 And this is where I will add some nuance to this before I go further with any of this,

00:06:39.860 which is to say individuals like this, like aesthetic aspirations like masculinity can be

00:06:47.060 the lifeline or the life, like safety preserver for somebody who is drowning in thoughts about

00:06:57.060 not unaliving themselves, in thoughts about just like desperation and depression and a sense of

00:07:04.620 worthlessness within society, which a lot of young men feel these days.

00:07:09.320 And if you try to engage them with a more complex concept, whether that concept is a theological

00:07:15.900 concept or a philosophical concept or some like deeper, actually good reason for living and a good

00:07:22.040 thing to dedicate your life to, that can't get through to them in that state.

00:07:26.280 Yeah, I guess it's like when you're in too much pain, you can't really think about anything

00:07:30.360 complicated.

00:07:31.020 You need a painkiller.

00:07:32.080 And there's nothing mentally effective like a painkiller that's really highly intellectual.

00:07:37.640 You need a mini game that you can easily win.

00:07:40.060 And anything that's aesthetically based is fairly easy to win because you look in the mirror.

00:07:44.460 Do you look like that person you saw on Instagram?

00:07:46.900 Yes or no?

00:07:47.620 Okay, fantastic.

00:07:48.740 And you know where you're going, where you are.

00:07:50.220 There's no nuance because frankly, you're in too much mental pain and anguish or depression

00:07:54.120 to feel that nuance.

00:07:55.540 Is that what you're saying really?

00:07:57.200 That's absolutely what I'm saying.

00:07:58.480 Yeah.

00:07:58.760 And I'd also point out here that we have to be aware of, given that we think that a large

00:08:03.160 part of IQ is heredible. 0.99

00:08:05.780 When the old saying, how smart the average person is, half of them are dumber than that. 0.98

00:08:09.220 The problem is that a lot of people may simply lack the mental ability to conceptualize anything 0.99

00:08:18.800 more complicated than just B-man, unga bunga.

00:08:22.640 And as a society-

00:08:23.940 Yeah, you're saying this isn't just a people hurting or depressed people thing.

00:08:27.860 It is, but it can also just be an IQ thing.

00:08:31.360 Yeah, it can also just be an IQ thing.

00:08:32.740 So I'm saying that I don't hate that these memes are spreading more broadly.

00:08:35.860 I do not think Hamza, for example, is a bad guy or what he is doing is making society

00:08:42.320 net worse.

00:08:43.340 And I actually feel the same about Andrew Tate.

00:08:45.160 I do not think what he's doing is making society net worse.

00:08:47.680 I do not think he is a bad guy.

00:08:49.400 I do think, so one thing I do need to note about both of these individuals, and we mentioned

00:08:53.780 this in our Tom Girl episode, which is really interesting, or Tomboy episode, which is a sort

00:08:58.960 of apocalypse of tomboys, that they are disappearing and they're being villainized by both the right

00:09:02.780 and the left, where the one really negative thing that does come out of these individuals

00:09:06.580 is that these individuals often come from Eastern European or Muslim countries, his Muslim

00:09:13.000 backgrounds, which means that they install idealized women from a Muslim cultural perspective, which 0.99

00:09:22.060 is very different than what the idealized woman is within classical Americana perspective,

00:09:27.920 which is a woman who is much more do-it-herself, can fix a car, can tough it out with the boys 1.00

00:09:33.960 much more.

00:09:35.000 And if you want to see our big arguments around that and all of the citations around that,

00:09:39.320 you can just go to that episode.

00:09:40.260 I love it when people, in response to that other video, were like, no, Andrew Tate isn't

00:09:46.280 installing a Muslim view of femininity and gender relationships.

00:09:51.620 And then, a few days later, he puts out this tweet, which we've actually done a full video

00:09:57.240 on that'll go live soon, where he is saying the solution to demographic collapse is polygyny,

00:10:03.120 that men need to take multiple wives. 1.00

00:10:05.700 If you are so brainwashed that you don't understand that his entire view of gender is just a Muslim 0.97

00:10:11.820 view of gender, I don't know what to say to you. 1.00

00:10:15.020 You're a brainwashed simp. 0.96

00:10:17.240 There's nothing wrong with this view of gender, but it is not an American view of gender, 0.98

00:10:21.900 and it is not a Christian view of gender.

00:10:24.200 Also, side note here, can we appreciate how awesome the new ex is?

00:10:28.400 With this community note here, under this being,

00:10:31.340 fertility rates have been falling in all parts of the world and among all races,

00:10:35.580 the fertility of non-whites has fallen more than that of whites,

00:10:38.460 which is one of those statistics that I always have to put out there to people who say we're racist

00:10:42.960 for talking about falling fertility rates.

00:10:45.240 This is both true between countries and within countries, i.e. within the United States,

00:10:50.020 fertility rates are falling faster among other races,

00:10:52.820 and outside of the United States, fertility rates are falling faster among non-whites.

00:10:57.300 Oh, also, don't give me this I'm being racist for assuming that Hamza was raised Muslim.

00:11:02.800 He was, and he says so.

00:11:04.980 And there's nothing wrong with that, but it does create problems when you combine ideas

00:11:09.980 that you don't realize are about Muslim gender roles with the picture of the Western idealized

00:11:17.120 family structure.

00:11:18.420 And unfortunately, many of the ideas about women or idealized femininity or the woman's

00:11:25.340 role in society that have become normalized within the red pill movement are Muslim cultural

00:11:31.780 conceptions of that, and therefore do not work when you try to mesh them with everything else

00:11:38.920 being a Western framework.

00:11:40.220 When I was younger, I was raised to be a Muslim by my parents.

00:11:42.960 I'm teaching you things that religion has been teaching us for thousands of years.

00:11:47.280 Everything that the red pill has taught us about male and female sexuality,

00:11:50.720 Islam has been enforcing. 0.96

00:11:51.920 And I really like this video.

00:11:52.920 This is a multi-millionaire Christian kickboxer who's speaking about Islam. 1.00

00:11:56.580 If you have a problem with feminism, Islam will fix it. 1.00

00:11:59.420 And it's really clear if you look at history books around what was considered idealized

00:12:03.540 in an American woman, or if you just look at what people like in country songs.

00:12:06.420 I think every fish I've caught this year has been mean.

00:12:30.800 It's beginning to estole a very non-American aspiration in terms of what women should aspire 0.73

00:12:40.380 to and what young men should look for.

00:12:42.860 I don't know if this didn't occur to me when I was recording this originally, but I realize

00:12:47.180 now that a lot of people, when they imagine what your stereotypical ideal Muslim woman looks 0.99

00:12:53.540 like, they are picturing the current radical extremist Muslim populations where women wear

00:13:00.080 hijabs and stuff like that, instead of the way Muslim women historically dressed, which 1.00

00:13:06.180 was absolutely dripping in jewelry in very scantily clad outfits.

00:13:13.220 Think your classic belly dancers and stuff like that, or the historic Persian women.

00:13:18.460 But if you're watching this on audio, basically think Jasmine from Aladdin.

00:13:22.560 And contrast this with the idealized women in the American frontier, and I've also posted

00:13:28.360 some pictures here, that were very homely and very plain and wore almost no jewelry.

00:13:35.320 And people would be like, what?

00:13:36.620 Those can't be the idealized frontier women. 1.00

00:13:39.120 They're not hot.

00:13:40.160 And it's like, well, because in the traditional American value system, when you are choosing

00:13:46.480 a wife, you are not optimizing around how hot she is. 1.00

00:13:51.720 You are optimizing around other things, like her moral character and how tough she is, which

00:13:58.840 is something that these women are showing. 1.00

00:14:01.180 Every one of these women was photographed with a gun. 1.00

00:14:04.340 This woman posing with a gun is not just a thing of modern, sexy, conservative women. 1.00

00:14:11.960 This is something American women have been doing for a very long time. 0.97

00:14:15.820 One of the things that really got me when I listened to these influences, which was really

00:14:19.000 interesting, is I was listening to Hamza talk about what an ideal wife was for him.

00:14:25.380 And he's out there.

00:14:26.960 He's exercising every day.

00:14:28.220 Obviously, he puts a lot of effort into exercising.

00:14:30.240 He puts a lot of effort in Stoll's mental discipline.

00:14:32.980 And this is a big thing for him.

00:14:34.540 Like, don't play video games.

00:14:36.360 There's a lot of sacrifice he's making.

00:14:38.360 And the end goal of this sacrifice, even from his own perspective, is a wife and a family.

00:14:44.460 And so he talks about what he wants in a wife.

00:14:46.320 And he says, I want a wife that is submissive, cheerful.

00:14:50.760 I appreciate cheerful.

00:14:52.360 But I do appreciate, at least to me, submissive.

00:14:54.380 That's something I'm into.

00:14:55.400 But also, it doesn't have any male friends.

00:14:58.140 And that's where I'm starting to be like, whoa, we have male friends?

00:15:00.440 There's some insecurity in there.

00:15:01.840 There's some massive insecurity.

00:15:04.580 Yeah.

00:15:04.960 And then he goes on.

00:15:06.500 He needs her to be pretty. 0.96

00:15:07.900 Either not have a job or have a job that's more like a hobby.

00:15:11.980 And sells knitted goods on Etsy job.

00:15:14.940 Yeah.

00:15:15.380 That fits like a feminine aesthetic. 0.76

00:15:17.240 And I hear this.

00:15:19.280 And I'm like, I would hate being married to that woman. 1.00

00:15:24.460 It seems like people who do this, like if you follow the full Andrew Tate thing, or you follow the full Hamza thing, and you become this like giga chad, right?

00:15:37.820 The fish that is catching you, the woman that is catching you, the family life that is catching you, seems to me astronomically less than the value system that we will raise our children with and that we try to portray on our channel. 0.96

00:15:52.240 He couldn't get a woman like you with that sort of attitude, like someone who's intellectually engaged and engages in these intellectual conversations and like jokes with me and knows all of these cultural, low cultural concepts that I find pretty engaging. 0.99

00:16:07.040 I think there are two elements of that here.

00:16:09.240 And I'm curious to hear what you think. 0.64

00:16:11.260 One element I think is insecurity, that they wouldn't want a wife like that because they, I think either fear that a wife like that would get too big for their britches and then start making lots of demands and ultimately leave them or make their life really complicated and divorce, rape them and all of that.

00:16:28.400 I think the other part of it is they, given the nature of who they are, per what you're saying about lures and like the kind of fish they're catching, they haven't met these women.

00:16:40.260 They just don't know they exist.

00:16:42.180 And I don't think they believe that they exist.

00:16:46.120 If that happens.

00:16:46.700 Yeah, well, because they wouldn't, like you wouldn't engage with one of these guys.

00:16:49.700 Like the nerdy.

00:16:50.620 Yeah, I've not met anyone like this before.

00:16:54.320 And you wouldn't be, I mean, it's interesting.

00:16:55.560 So I showed Simone some of his videos and she goes, isn't it interesting that so many of the men who go for this ultra masculine identity to you came off as preening and effete.

00:17:05.780 So for people who don't know what effete is, that means they come off as effeminate and very obsessed when she says preening, like very obsessed with their looks and stuff like that.

00:17:15.660 Preening is typically a word that people learn when they look at male birds grooming themselves, just sort of sitting there making sure their feathers are all fluffed out the right way, that kind of thing.

00:17:24.580 Yeah, and when you said that, what I realized is this Americana idealization of a partner that a lot of our society has lost because a lot of the leaders and like the masculine identity movement come from Muslim and Eastern European backgrounds. 0.76

00:17:39.760 They don't come from traditional Americana backgrounds anymore.

00:17:42.860 At least the ones that are reaching the youth.

00:17:45.400 We have forgotten this, that it wasn't just that the women were expected to be rough and tumble in terms of their aspiration. 0.99

00:17:52.120 But the men also were expected to exude a form of masculinity, which is very difficult to describe in today's society, where to you, when you looked at individuals like that, they came off as effeminate to you.

00:18:09.960 Like Andrew Tate came off as effeminate to you.

00:18:11.720 Hamza came off as effeminate to you.

00:18:13.180 Because what is effeminate but investing in your appearance and obsessing over your appearance and what other people think of you, that is an inherently feminine thing. 1.00

00:18:24.160 And it is also very clearly an obsession of these people.

00:18:28.360 They do invest a lot in their appearance and also in what other people think of them.

00:18:33.100 What's more feminine than that? 0.99

00:18:34.360 I just want to be clear that it's not bad that these traits are feminine and it's not bad to be feminine.

00:18:39.460 I'm just saying it's ironic because these men frame themselves as being hyper-masculine, whereas really the height of masculinity lies in inherent confidence and a lack of interest in how other people see you.

00:18:52.500 A giving zero fucks kind of thing, which Andrew Tate invests heavily in projecting, but it's obvious that he really cares about it.

00:19:02.640 I'm going to disagree with you here.

00:19:03.940 I just think it's different cultural ideals here.

00:19:06.680 Really?

00:19:07.680 So, for example, right?

00:19:10.100 I'll explain what I mean by this, right?

00:19:11.580 You do so.

00:19:12.080 So to you, when you look, like a woman with this Americana cultural subset, when she looks at men like this, I suspect that they appear to you the same way that when I look at two women.

00:19:25.040 And one of the women is very, a country girl, right? 0.69

00:19:28.360 Overalls, dirty, everything like that.

00:19:29.820 And the other one is all done up with like lip injections and tons of makeup and tons of long nails. 1.00

00:19:34.940 And I'm just like, ew, to that one.

00:19:37.560 I don't know if a feminine and masculine distinction is really necessary there.

00:19:42.660 It is a value system distinction that we can associate with femininity and masculinity. 0.92

00:19:48.280 And that is from your perspective.

00:19:50.940 To me, I don't know if it's – and I think that within this movement, and to men like this, they hear words like feminine, and they hear it when used to talk about something a male is doing as having an intrinsically negative context, which I don't think you mean here.

00:20:06.760 You mean it just not culturally aligned with what you were raised to believe a good partner looked and acted like and valued, which was specific when your culture talked about what is a man to you, what is masculine.

00:20:23.140 It was confidence, leadership, and not caring what other people think of it.

00:20:27.940 Okay, and I agree that there's a cultural aspect to that, but also when you look at what hormonally distinguishes men and women on average and behaviorally distinguishes men and women on average, women are the ones who hormonally and behaviorally care more about what other people think, are more concerned with social signaling and status and all the sort of bureaucratic, how do people see me, how do I see them, what's everyone thinking right now thing.

00:20:51.440 And men are the go big or – and men are the go big or go home, testosterone, and I'm going to go out and make my fortune, or die a virgin, and no one's going to care about me, and I'll die in war, and I'm disposable.

00:21:02.680 That is masculinity versus femininity from a biological perspective.

00:21:08.780 So, yes, maybe I culturally call that view, but I also think it's a biological truth.

00:21:13.820 I appreciate that.

00:21:14.960 I also want to talk more about the Hamza story here because it wasn't really interesting to me what happened to him.

00:21:18.880 And I think that it shows the danger of the masculinity as a moral system, like an aesthetic as a moral system mindset.

00:21:28.220 He actually won.

00:21:29.900 He got a girl who seemed like a really fantastic girl from what I've seen, went to go live in a rural area with her, living the lifestyle that he had told everyone that he saw as aspirational.

00:21:41.120 Like the ranch and everything.

00:21:42.240 I moved into the rural mountains of Scotland with my woman.

00:21:51.320 And soon we're going to buy a home, and we're going to have children.

00:21:54.620 I'm going to move up my family here.

00:21:56.340 I'm going to move up, like, families that I love.

00:21:59.580 And I'm going to create this dream into a reality.

00:22:02.420 But basically, I'm starting the fatherhood chapter of my life.

00:22:05.660 We're not pregnant just yet, but we've moved to the Scottish Highlands, like the mountains of Scotland.

00:22:13.580 And this is just an Airbnb that we're currently staying in, but we're going to view houses, and we're going to get a home somewhere around this region.

00:22:20.520 And we start this, like, chapter of our lives of having children.

00:22:24.440 Yeah, but then he wanted to go back to the city, go back to all of the temptations that he pretended like he wasn't tempted by.

00:22:31.220 With the wife? 0.94

00:22:32.120 Did they sell their house in the countryside?

00:22:33.620 No, the wife didn't. I think they were renting something in the countryside.

00:22:36.980 He broke up with her. This person he was planning to marry. 0.88

00:22:40.080 You left her?

00:22:41.920 Why? Because on what grounds did he leave her? Wait.

00:22:47.600 He wanted to be more social, and she wanted to focus more on just, like, the family, right?

00:22:52.620 Oh, she was smothering him.

00:22:54.420 Not smothering him. I think what it was is she believed what he had been saying.

00:22:59.320 She believed that was his true aspiration.

00:23:00.860 I want a dedicated wife, I want to live in the countryside, and I want to focus on personal self-improvement.

00:23:07.640 Note, if you are listening in audio, and this section sounds disjointed, that is because I am interspersing clips of him explaining why he broke up with his girlfriend,

00:23:16.220 with clips of things he has said in the past about high-quality partners and how to find an ideal girlfriend.

00:23:22.820 The reason why me and my ex split up is because we did this little exercise together where I told her to sit down and to write down, like, her goals and the season of life that she wanted to get into.

00:23:33.360 For the next few months, what kind of life do we want to live?

00:23:36.160 And so I wrote it really authentically and honestly, and I think she did as well.

00:23:40.820 And I wrote, you know what? I want to move to, like, a big city.

00:23:43.100 I want to be around, like, businessmen.

00:23:44.880 I want to really make friends.

00:23:46.220 Let's talk about where you won't find her.

00:23:48.440 You will not find this kind of woman who will fit with this lifestyle in a big, major city like London, Dubai, Miami. 1.00

00:23:55.300 Why? Because the women who are in big cities, imagine you move to a big city. 1.00

00:23:59.340 There's certainly more women there, but quantity does not equal quality. 1.00

00:24:02.880 The women who are in the big cities are there for one major reason. 1.00

00:24:05.940 They are grinding as, like, as glorified Instagram prostitution.

00:24:11.600 I actually want to have a few, like, sleepless nights.

00:24:14.360 I want to have a few, like, sleep-deprived nights where I stay up late.

00:24:17.520 Bro, for the last few years, I've went to sleep at 7, 8 p.m.

00:24:20.480 You couldn't imagine the amount of, like, parties and social events and dinners that I've missed.

00:24:24.680 So the girls that I have dated previously have always just been these sort of, like, party hook-up girls. 0.99

00:24:30.140 They were just, like, in parties, just, like, sucking dick. 0.99

00:24:32.780 Because I know what goes... 1.00

00:24:34.280 Bro, I'm the guy who's getting his dick sucked in the party. 1.00

00:24:36.400 I know what goes on in these parties. 1.00

00:24:37.900 And the issue was that the girls that I was meeting from these places, just like I was as well,

00:24:43.660 we're all low-quality.

00:24:45.120 It's a low-quality place to be.

00:24:46.540 I know that's probably not what you've wanted to hear because you got so excited when I just started saying, 0.99

00:24:49.880 you know, I used to f*** these girls. 1.00

00:24:51.380 But the truth is, like, the casual sex lifestyle brings instant gratification, Jeffries, to it. 0.99

00:24:56.520 Like, people who you don't actually want to be around.

00:24:58.280 I wanted to be super social.

00:24:59.900 I wanted to have some late nights where we stay up and we're social and there's a party that we go to and everything.

00:25:04.420 And I'm not going to lie.

00:25:05.900 Like, I don't want to say a bad word about my girl.

00:25:08.180 I really can't.

00:25:08.880 About my ex.

00:25:10.060 But she saw it.

00:25:10.720 And I'm not going to lie.

00:25:11.260 Like, I could see how, like, offended she was.

00:25:14.380 Where she was quite, like, pressuring.

00:25:15.800 She was like, wait, you want to do this?

00:25:17.000 Oh, you want to do that?

00:25:17.840 You want to stay up late?

00:25:18.640 But that's unhealthy.

00:25:19.240 This pursuit has actually made me less attractive to those party girls.

00:25:25.240 Like, the party, low-quality, degenerate TikTok type of girls. 1.00

00:25:28.200 They are attracted to the party, low-quality, degenerate TikTok type of guys.

00:25:32.820 Fine. 1.00

00:25:33.200 Like, trash can stay with trash. 0.86

00:25:34.560 Because for hers, she wrote that she wanted to do more of the things that we were currently doing. 0.87

00:25:38.340 She wanted to get more into the sort of wild, detached away from people. 0.97

00:25:42.020 Whilst that sounds, it's wholesome as f***.

00:25:43.960 And you know that she's an awesome girl for that. 0.94

00:25:45.560 She doesn't want to be around, like, you know, like, party girls and whatever. 0.99

00:25:48.640 I just realized, like, we're actually going into two separate seasons right now.

00:25:52.260 Fine. 0.99

00:25:52.620 Like, trash can stay with trash. 0.97

00:25:54.020 This is going to sound weird. 1.00

00:25:55.060 You need to be hit in the face. 1.00

00:25:57.520 I will repeat that again. 1.00

00:25:58.720 As a young man, you need to be hit in the face consistently.

00:26:02.240 But the problem is that when you define your moral system around an aesthetic, it needs to be witnessed to have value.

00:26:12.860 And when he got to the countryside,

00:26:15.720 There was no one to witness to him.

00:26:17.180 And affirmation from the social community and everything like that.

00:26:20.000 Why didn't he just post his life, like Ballerina Farms and everyone else who goes out trattling?

00:26:24.600 He is.

00:26:25.220 He did do that to an extent, but I guess it wasn't enough for him.

00:26:27.640 Like, I'm actually confused as to why he left her or why the city called to him that much.

00:26:32.980 But I will say that people with different cultural values, many of them actually struggle to live in rural environments.

00:26:41.400 Because rural environments offer a completely different set of reward mechanisms for an individual.

00:26:48.260 Think about you and me as an example here, right?

00:26:50.680 You thought you would hate living in a rural environment when I was first like, we should do it for cost reasons.

00:26:56.000 And then you got out here and you were like, oh my God.

00:26:59.320 Like, recently you were telling me.

00:27:01.240 I was like, what can I do for you?

00:27:02.660 I wanted to do something nice.

00:27:03.580 I was like, can I upgrade your mattress?

00:27:04.980 Can I, you know, fix a part of the house?

00:27:07.260 Can I do something outside or buy you something?

00:27:10.340 Because she just had a kid.

00:27:11.280 And I was like, you deserve some sort of a push present.

00:27:13.000 And I go, do you want more jewelry?

00:27:14.500 And you go, I have all the jewelry I want.

00:27:16.260 You're like, she had a set number of jewelry that she wanted.

00:27:19.180 Like, at the beginning of our marriage.

00:27:21.340 And he just went and got it all.

00:27:24.160 And now she doesn't want any more jewelry.

00:27:25.800 She's like, I don't want any more jewelry.

00:27:26.860 I don't want any more clothing.

00:27:28.200 And I was like, Lynn, what do you want?

00:27:29.620 And you go, the only thing that I want is in everything that I think about.

00:27:33.940 Like, luxury for me is not having to worry about losing the lifestyle we have today.

00:27:38.680 Not having to worry about losing the house.

00:27:40.800 Not having to worry about losing the, and we've paid off all the debt on our house and

00:27:45.800 everything like that, which isn't even a sound financial decision.

00:27:47.920 We just did it because it made me feel safer.

00:27:50.320 You did it to humor me because it makes me feel safer.

00:27:54.420 And so we don't, and we have a super low interest loan from like during COVID and everything

00:27:58.420 like that.

00:27:58.760 But she's like, no.

00:27:59.320 I know.

00:27:59.580 I know.

00:28:00.260 You're going to hate me for this.

00:28:01.860 But still, now it's about getting income streams that we don't need to leave the house to

00:28:05.900 go get.

00:28:07.840 But it was interesting to me that this is your habit.

00:28:10.100 This rural environment.

00:28:11.280 And you didn't even know.

00:28:12.140 You created my ideal life and I never would have expected it.

00:28:16.640 Sorry.

00:28:17.880 Which is interesting for me is that I think that what might have happened with him is

00:28:23.260 someone that may have been culturally and genetically optimized for a urban environment put themselves

00:28:29.600 in a rural environment and realized that while it may have fit certain like trans cultural

00:28:36.180 narratives about masculinity, it didn't fit his narratives about masculinity.

00:28:41.060 Here's another potentiality though.

00:28:42.880 Is perhaps his primary value, like what made him feel validated and what made him feel like

00:28:51.620 he was bringing something to the table was this more in-person socializing being witnessed

00:28:56.760 thing and taking a life in the countryside removed his ability to feel like he was something

00:29:03.140 special and something high status.

00:29:04.720 maybe another thing that was very interesting about him when I think about cultural differences

00:29:10.000 and the Eastern European Muslim cultural background versus the Americana cultural background is this

00:29:16.500 idea of fighting to prove one's masculinity, which is he did this thing where he stopped creating

00:29:22.920 YouTube videos.

00:29:23.400 Like he created these high quality YouTube videos every day for a while and then he stopped

00:29:26.980 creating those so that he could go fight, be like a fighter.

00:29:33.460 Like, like I guess Andrew Tate, like he took so much inspiration from that.

00:29:35.960 Like fighting in front of an audience.

00:29:38.600 Like in-a-style fighting stuff, like fighting in front of an audience, like other men.

00:29:43.260 And what is interesting is this is really popular within that segment of this movement.

00:29:48.440 So much that I saw this convergence here and yet within traditional Americana, it's typically

00:29:54.940 not considered a masculine thing to go out and fight other men.

00:29:58.320 And I suspect that the reason is, if you were going to ask me why, is because in traditional

00:30:03.960 Americana environments, what would be seen as masculine is like hunting, fishing, things

00:30:08.540 that allow you to survive.

00:30:10.820 But in a survival frontier environment, picking fights is going to get you and your family dead.

00:30:17.480 Yeah, it actively detracts from your survival and productivity.

00:30:21.660 Yeah, it's a very dangerous thing to do.

00:30:23.860 But when you're in a structured city or military environment, picking fights can be a useful

00:30:30.520 sort of theatrical thing that you can do.

00:30:33.440 Yeah, I think it's a, it's an environmentally based means of attaining status.

00:30:37.740 If you are in a densely populated environment where you are not capable of gaining independence

00:30:44.580 in a, from a resource perspective, fighting within those bureaucracies or within those small

00:30:50.060 dense cities probably enables you to access better resources, better women, better. 1.00

00:30:56.200 Yeah.

00:30:57.100 But I also think whatever is elevated within tribal environments where you have tribal groups

00:31:02.960 and they are basically testing males as active.

00:31:06.280 Who's going to be the alpha.

00:31:07.340 Yeah.

00:31:07.580 Because they're at war with different tribal groups, which is not something you had in Americana

00:31:12.560 frontier environments.

00:31:14.180 You, you did not have, frontiersmen did not, they didn't function as tribal groups like

00:31:19.380 that.

00:31:19.740 You would have people who would try to defend their family, but it was usually with weapons.

00:31:24.380 Sorry, when I say weapons, firearms, right?

00:31:26.580 You, you wouldn't.

00:31:27.820 Well, and if anything you benefited from with anyone with whom you could communicate, you

00:31:31.900 benefited more through trade and mutual understanding than you did from trying to fight or compete.

00:31:39.800 Yep.

00:31:40.140 Another thing that he elevates that I found very interesting, especially in regards to

00:31:43.560 the quote unquote reward that he is after when he talks about his ideal woman was you need

00:31:49.600 to be in frame 24 seven.

00:31:51.680 Like this is something that he often extolls as a concept.

00:31:55.060 Sorry, people who may not know red pearl jargon, being in frame means that if you are married

00:32:00.060 to someone, you basically can't joke around with him.

00:32:02.340 You can't show them who you really are.

00:32:03.900 You can't, you can't show them vulnerability.

00:32:05.980 Feminine women are only attracted to men who are like stoic, cool, box, even though they 0.93

00:32:10.340 don't want to admit this.

00:32:10.980 Because if you break that down, you're no longer the guy that she actually fell for.

00:32:15.100 And she loves you.

00:32:15.800 So obviously, you know, she'll stay and she still really likes you and everything.

00:32:18.880 But here's the brutal part.

00:32:20.540 There's another guy out there who's still speaking to her like James Bond.

00:32:24.560 She walks past the guy who's still been getting like his haircuts every week or every two

00:32:28.740 weeks.

00:32:29.160 And she can't help but to feel that sting, that shock of attraction that she used to

00:32:34.020 have with you, but now in another guy.

00:32:35.920 And you're like the good old faithful beta male. 0.97

00:32:37.900 I'm just this fucking goofy guy who's making high pitched like noises and, and you know, 0.98

00:32:43.040 like laughing next to her the same way that I would with my male friends. 0.98

00:32:46.680 We need to make this clear to each other.

00:32:48.360 And I hope you can learn from my lesson.

00:32:50.280 Don't act in front of your girl like you would with your boys.

00:32:54.040 When you're with your boys, you probably can relax fully and speak however you want.

00:32:58.280 You're not trying to sexually attract them.

00:32:59.920 So you don't need to have like a low, deep, like presence voice.

00:33:03.000 You can just speak and goof around, laugh really loudly and everything.

00:33:06.460 But when you're with your girl, you should see it as always like a moment of attraction.

00:33:10.840 Even when you know you've got her, never think that your woman is like 100% yours. 0.97

00:33:15.480 And here is what he was saying before sucking at the teat of Andrew Tate style content.

00:33:20.040 But when it comes to the dating tactics, which say, okay, act like this, don't talk so much.

00:33:27.240 That's when it can get a little bit tricky.

00:33:30.780 Like we said today, it makes you act like the stereotypical Chad who's cold and avoidance.

00:33:35.460 And when you do that, and it's not the authentic version of you, which if you've watched this much of the video,

00:33:39.580 it's that's not who you are.

00:33:40.840 This is going to sound weird. 1.00

00:33:41.840 You need to be hit in the face. 1.00

00:33:43.740 I will repeat that again. 1.00

00:33:45.540 As a young man, you need to be hit in the face consistently.

00:33:49.060 It's basically like being in character as an actor 24-7. 0.93

00:33:52.660 So if your role in the relationship is to be the hyper-masculine dominant partner,

00:33:58.200 you do not get to at any point break that character, meaning you cannot be vulnerable.

00:34:03.180 You cannot be relaxed because that would ruin the underlying framework of that relationship.

00:34:11.420 Yeah, and I found that really fascinating because I can't imagine,

00:34:17.020 do they think that that actually would work?

00:34:18.720 Like that you could be married and be like that 24-7 and that would be like something to fight for?

00:34:24.480 Part of me wonders if frame is really more a misunderstanding of genetics and culture.

00:34:29.940 Some men see that there are relationships in which men are proto-abusive, highly dominant,

00:34:36.360 always angry, always very heightened in terms of their aggression.

00:34:40.060 And they assume that is just the way you're supposed to act when in actuality there is a subset of men

00:34:47.620 from different cultures and of different genetic makeups that are just naturally that way.

00:34:52.920 So really there shouldn't be no such thing as maintaining frame.

00:34:55.800 There should be optimizing around your hormonal and genetic propensities.

00:35:01.100 But it's just a misread.

00:35:03.280 What do you think?

00:35:04.460 Yeah, no, I think that you're right about that.

00:35:06.780 Like I see this, for example, in female spheres where there's all these little memes that come out here and there 1.00

00:35:14.180 about like super healthy, like clean girls and that girl and like fitness girl and all these things

00:35:19.320 where there are influencers who demonstrate it, who just are it.

00:35:24.420 They just have the good skin.

00:35:25.720 They just like to eat healthy and exercise and whatnot.

00:35:28.060 Or they just like to be whatever it is, this type of trope is.

00:35:32.200 And then there are the people who try to become that because they believe it is something you can become.

00:35:39.060 And it's an adoptable lifestyle.

00:35:41.300 And they, in their attempts to maintain frame, completely fall apart.

00:35:46.720 There's one YouTuber, for example, who detailed her process of glowing up where she like tried to become one of these like healthy, aesthetic, beautiful influencers.

00:35:57.540 And she just filmed herself working out and eating well and doing all this stuff.

00:36:01.540 And she completely fell apart and broke down because it's just, it's not her.

00:36:05.400 It's not what she could ever be.

00:36:07.360 And I think that happens a lot with this masculine ideal of maintaining frame.

00:36:10.200 They're looking at this totally different culture that they're not well suited to.

00:36:13.620 And if you have to maintain frame in anything, it's not ever really going to happen for you.

00:36:19.280 It's going to cause problems.

00:36:20.280 It's not going to happen.

00:36:21.380 It's not worth it.

00:36:23.100 If what you are after is a happy wife who you enjoy being around and a happy family, like if that's the goal that you need to be in frame to get,

00:36:32.520 if you are only able to maintain that goal while living a life in frame, then the goal probably isn't worth it.

00:36:39.680 Especially if you're attempting it for any sort of a self-fulfillment reason.

00:36:44.400 Because you can't really, I think, meaningfully improve the core of who you are if you know your end state is just going to be an act.

00:36:56.160 It's not a desirable thing that they're fighting for.

00:36:59.500 But here's something where I want to distinguish this though.

00:37:03.440 How can we distinguish between a choice to behave a certain way, to lean into a certain tendency, and a choice to maintain frame?

00:37:12.900 For example, I do think that there's a meaningful difference.

00:37:14.740 I just don't know exactly where to draw the line.

00:37:16.580 You and I decide to be happy about life, to be grateful, to see things as funny instead of frustrating.

00:37:23.440 Whenever we have the ability to go that way, we go that way.

00:37:28.280 And that could be seen by some as maintaining frame, that we choose to be happy-go-lucky, that we choose to do harder things or see mishaps as funny.

00:37:36.960 How is that different from someone who always tries to lean in the form of male dominance and aggression?

00:37:43.880 That is interesting.

00:37:45.360 Yeah, and I think, yeah, we do have some level of frame, which is to choose to be happy because it is unproductive to not be happy.

00:37:56.760 And genetically speaking, my mother suffered from pretty severe depression.

00:38:00.960 Your mother suffered from depression.

00:38:03.240 It's not as though we don't have the mental problems, genetically speaking, either.

00:38:08.640 So this is, I suppose, what it is, this frame that we are maintaining is just a more productive and enjoyable frame, which makes it more sustainable.

00:38:18.420 If the frame is, I am happy to be alive and I love my wife and kids, right?

00:38:26.260 And one, there's a level of truth to that, but things happen every day that can make a day bad or something like that.

00:38:31.440 Like right now, Simone is under an intense amount of pain.

00:38:34.820 She has incredible pain threshold. 1.00

00:38:37.080 She was handling sales calls while having contractions with one of our kids, for example, right?

00:38:42.680 Like she can undergo an intense amount of pain.

00:38:45.160 And so when she says that she's in a lot of pain to me, or she starts crying because of the amount of pain she's in, I know she's in an insane amount of pain.

00:38:52.280 But she puts on a smile and she works through it because she's like, how does it help us as a family for me to indulge in that?

00:39:00.140 I think the problem was this form of aesthetic of it's like this sort of masculine dominance.

00:39:04.220 The question isn't, how does it help us as a family for me to be open with my wife or for me to share different sides of myself with my wife or for me to joke around with my wife?

00:39:13.800 The question is, how do I optimize myself as a man?

00:39:17.300 And once the person realizes that that's what they're doing, that they're just optimizing an aesthetic vision of masculinity, I think it becomes transparently clear that they are living a life of no value.

00:39:27.220 Because they're obviously living no value to just aesthetic optimization.

00:39:30.960 And this comes back to the Pragmatist Guide to Life and Objective Functions, right?

00:39:34.660 Our objective function is not to be happy or choose things that are funny, right?

00:39:39.780 That is very different.

00:39:40.920 Our objective functions have deep philosophical underpinnings.

00:39:43.840 They're nuanced.

00:39:44.500 They're complicated.

00:39:45.680 And when we choose to maintain frame, it's because that helps us maintain the identity most likely to optimize our objective functions.

00:39:54.940 So there's a philosophical underpinning behind our maintaining a frame when we choose to do that.

00:39:59.480 When we look at someone instead who's a maintaining frame just to pursue an identity, perhaps it's the hollowness of that objective function.

00:40:08.600 There's no deep why behind their work that maybe leads to that contentment and satisfaction that pays for the price or the mental load of maintaining frame.

00:40:19.760 Do you think that's what's at play here?

00:40:20.980 Yeah, and I would say that with everything we're saying here, I am as much criticizing the far right and far left on this.

00:40:28.760 Like, I see them as completely overlapping movements.

00:40:31.760 This male optimization movement and the trans movement. 0.97

00:40:34.640 So whether you're a trans man or woman trying to get people to view you as your gender versus a cis man or woman trying to get society to recognize your gender, it's all bad.

00:40:45.720 Optimization of your life and your identity is an aesthetic gender optimization. 0.91

00:40:52.940 It only ends in despair.

00:40:54.980 But what we're also discussing here is something different, which is different cultural conceptions around gender optimization.

00:41:00.900 And while we stole our own cultural conception, I want to say that I do not know if a person, especially genetically, has been within one cultural conception for a really long time, that it makes sense to attempt to live out a different cultural conception of masculinity.

00:41:18.340 So if I was talking from somebody who was deep Muslim heritage, for example, about this, I would say that if they tried to live with and marry a woman like the Americana ideal of a woman, they would have a terrible time. 1.00

00:41:33.440 Same with a Japanese man. 1.00

00:41:34.880 If a Japanese man from longstanding Japanese cultural background, now there may be cultural outliers here where they're like, actually, that's my thing.

00:41:43.360 That's what I'm into and I'm an outlier within my cultural subset, then go for it, right?

00:41:48.100 You can live a really good life.

00:41:49.220 But if you have any underlying attachment to the traditional gender roles of your culture, which there's going to be some genetic selection events around, right?

00:41:59.440 You may fundamentally have a big problem with people from other cultural backgrounds.

00:42:03.880 And to understand why you get this bifurcation, it really is, and we've done episodes around this that talk more to this, like the Why Don't Jews Own Guns episode, because historically speaking, the Muslim groups that you see the most in cities today come from urban, ultra-urban-based cultural backgrounds.

00:42:22.340 And ultra-urban-based cultural backgrounds typically prefer more feminine made-up women because those women didn't need to fight historically. 1.00

00:42:32.040 If you're coming from a frontier culture, of course you don't want a weak wife. 1.00

00:42:36.560 That's one of the people you need with a gun defending your house when raiders or bandits come along, right?

00:42:43.420 But if you live in a highly structured society, women become a status symbol to you. 1.00

00:42:48.760 That's their core value to you, is how they augment your position in these complicated social hierarchies that exist within crowded cities, the crowded cities of antiquity.

00:43:00.780 And that actually more augments your family's safety and wealth, your own status.

00:43:05.460 On a frontier, status really doesn't matter that much.

00:43:08.580 You don't care that much about what other people think of you.

00:43:11.780 It's functionally...

00:43:12.780 You care if you're alive still.

00:43:15.780 Yeah, but we should be clear.

00:43:18.760 It's not that these things don't matter in the urban environment.

00:43:22.740 Your status, that the male status within a family, in a patriarchal urban environment, played a huge role in how many of their kids survived.

00:43:31.620 Yeah.

00:43:32.660 In environments where kids died often from diseases and stuff like that.

00:43:36.520 And this is why within these urban environments, you often get a lot of negative views towards things like dogs, for example, which is why you have such negative views on dogs within traditional Muslim cultures.

00:43:46.680 Because they're just not...

00:43:48.020 They are disease vectors, basically, if you're in a large urban setting.

00:43:51.980 But if you're from a rural culture, like dogs are a necessity to survive, often.

00:43:57.560 Yeah, yeah.

00:43:58.540 And they're not around corrupt sewage systems and gross human density that would make them disease vectors.

00:44:05.540 So don't worry about it.

00:44:07.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:07.980 And you're not going to get...

00:44:09.480 You would get in urban environments, in a culture that had been in urban environments for a long time.

00:44:13.140 We don't think about this in modern times.

00:44:14.620 But rogue dog packs were actually a major problem.

00:44:18.240 In cities?

00:44:18.940 They would kill people, kill kids. 1.00

00:44:20.720 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:44:21.180 Feral dogs.

00:44:21.660 We don't have feral dog problems anymore in our society because modern technology and everything like that.

00:44:28.000 But feral dogs were a huge problem in antiquity.

00:44:31.160 They were not a problem in frontier context, though, because they'd be killed by wild animals.

00:44:35.300 The bear was much more dangerous than a dog, which is, I think, really interesting in terms of how you get these different cultural perceptions as to why they like the done-up women with all the jewelry, whereas people from this culture don't done-up women with lots of jewelry.

00:44:49.620 But I think what it reminds us of is when you define something like masculinity as a thing of intrinsic value or femininity as a thing of intrinsic value, what you forget is that there isn't a uniform masculine definition or idealization.

00:45:05.100 There are different iterations of what it means to be the ideal feminine or the ideal masculine, depending on what your culture was optimizing for in a historical context.

00:45:20.200 And it's not like rural, good, urban, bad.

00:45:23.600 They're just different optimizations.

00:45:25.360 And the best I can say if you're trying to define good and bad is what works best for what you are attempting to optimize with your life, which ideally is something more than just an aesthetic.

00:45:38.280 If you're talking about, like, base-level humans, you're looking at something, like, very base-level, like humans just barely surviving.

00:45:45.340 It's feed your family.

00:45:46.160 That's what you're optimizing for is basic safety.

00:45:48.500 Then I think you get a level above that.

00:45:50.260 What I think you're missing is before someone can even think about taking care of their family, they're thinking about taking care of themselves, like putting your own oxygen mask.

00:45:57.860 And when you turn to self-care online as a man or a woman, it often dovetails really heavily with performative masculinity or femininity.

00:46:06.240 So I think part of this is a trap as people try to get their basic oxygen mask on mentally, if that makes sense.

00:46:11.760 No, I agree with you.

00:46:13.920 And I think that builds on what I was saying, which is to say if you're talking about, because there's various different models for what does it look like on a person's path towards, like, mental health or as you move up civilizationally or individually in terms of a building oneself's journey.

00:46:29.400 And there's various models for this. 0.99

00:46:31.160 Some of them are very stupid. 1.00

00:46:32.500 I might do an episode on them. 1.00

00:46:33.700 But I think that it is true that if you're talking at a base level, what people optimize for is just feeding themselves.

00:46:39.260 Then there's aesthetic optimization.

00:46:42.080 And I think when you get above aesthetic optimization, you have people optimizing around cultural systems and cultural value systems, which I think is an order above aesthetic optimization.

00:46:53.960 And then I think at the highest level, it is people who are optimizing around a thing that they believe has intrinsic value in the world, something of true good that they have defined for themselves.

00:47:05.360 And this is the core question of the Pragmatist Guide to Life is, like, how do you think about that question?

00:47:10.140 How can you explore these various systems?

00:47:11.980 And we try to do it in an unbiased question as manner as possible, very different from this podcast.

00:47:16.980 And it's $1 if you want to check it out on Amazon.

00:47:18.640 And it has an audiobook if you want to check it out.

00:47:20.320 So I do recommend it if this is something that you have ever personally thought about is, I don't have a thing that I live for.

00:47:26.200 You probably should because it helps sort of everything downstream.

00:47:30.080 People who know what they live for and what they want from life are always going to, in terms of mental health and often in terms of career success, outcompete individuals who have an aesthetic optimization or just a purely cultural optimization.

00:47:44.560 And each one of these systems typically outcompetes the one below it in terms of efficacy.

00:47:48.400 But anyway, I absolutely love you, Simone.

00:47:51.020 And I love our new daughter.

00:47:53.000 And you are spectacular.

00:47:55.460 The perfect woman.

00:47:55.980 I love you too, Malcolm.

00:47:57.180 And so does Indy.

00:48:00.480 All right.

00:48:01.020 I'll go feed her.

00:48:02.160 I love you.

00:48:03.320 Thank you.

00:48:03.940 Those were fun conversations.

00:48:05.340 Oh, I thought these were great.

00:48:06.260 Yeah.

00:48:06.660 I always like it when they're good.

00:48:07.900 And you're fantastic.

00:48:09.480 So entertaining.

00:48:10.760 Yeah.

00:48:11.400 No, I have a more nuanced view too.

00:48:13.340 I really do think, though, that self-care in terms of just getting off the ground in terms of you can't even think about your objective function until you have a basic mental level of functioning in terms of depression or anxiety or other problems.

00:48:27.360 And I do think that when you go to self-care and let's just get my life in order, let's just make sure I'm not like super fat, super sick, whatever it might be, super depressed.

00:48:36.060 You end up in these masculinization, feminization, identity optimizing pipelines, because that's what you're going to find on social media.

00:48:42.460 Because obviously someone who's going to be selling fitness or health, mental health, physical health, whatever it might be, is probably also selling an aesthetic.

00:48:50.520 And so you just get trapped into that whole whoever has a life coach suddenly decides they want to be a life coach problem.

00:48:57.500 So that's what's happening, in my opinion.

00:48:59.900 But yeah.

00:49:00.280 And it's actually very interesting when somebody's deep in this, because I read some videos of people who were critical of Hamza.

00:49:06.180 And they basically, in their worldview, they saw two optimization functions.

00:49:09.500 Either you were optimizing around an aesthetic ideal like masculinity, or you were optimizing around pure hedonism.

00:49:15.280 And it even occurred that there could be different moral systems than just those two, which I think shows how mentally degraded the population has become.

00:49:26.540 Oh, yeah.

00:49:28.800 Yeah, no kidding.

00:49:30.060 I guess that's what happens when you let go of religion, right?

00:49:33.680 Yeah.

00:49:34.000 But keep in mind, I think there's systems that are higher order than religion.

00:49:36.520 I think religion is a cultural optimization. 0.68

00:49:38.140 When I say higher order, I don't mean that they can't exist alongside religion.

00:49:42.060 So, for example, a person can optimize themselves to be the perfect cultural Catholic.

00:49:46.440 Or they can study the Bible and say, this is a thing of true value that I believe God wants for me, and I will do that.

00:49:54.380 Which often doesn't align with, because the ideal of the perfect Catholic has changed over time, with the current cultural conception of the perfect Catholic.

00:50:02.820 When I say there's higher order things in religion, what I'm talking about is what the religion says God actually wants of you, instead of what the religion says it wants of you, which are often different things.

00:50:14.420 Interesting.

00:50:15.480 Yeah.

00:50:16.000 A great example of we're talking about Muslims here is like the Shia-Sunni split. 0.99

00:50:19.060 Within most Muslim conceptual frameworks, there isn't actually a Shia-Sunni split.

00:50:23.740 This is a human thing, right?

00:50:26.120 It's a bureaucratic conflict and not a theocratic conflict.

00:50:31.240 Yes, a bureaucratic and not a theocratic conflict.

00:50:33.220 And so some Muslims optimize themselves around being Sunni or Shia instead of optimizing around what Allah wants of them. 0.87

00:50:40.240 Yeah.

00:50:40.920 Big mistake.

00:50:42.320 Big mistake there.

00:50:43.400 Yeah.

00:50:43.940 Love you to death.

00:50:45.020 Love you too.

00:50:47.040 All right.

00:50:47.980 Have fun talking with your dad.

00:50:49.260 What a girl who's obsessed with you. 1.00

00:50:51.460 I'm going to teach you some fucking truthful, like somewhat dark shit, but you want a girl who's obsessed with you, bro? 1.00

00:50:55.940 Make her feel all the emotions possible. 1.00

00:50:58.500 Make her cry.

00:50:59.520 Make her happy.

00:51:00.520 Excite her.

00:51:01.380 Scare her.

00:51:02.240 Make her feel any emotion possible. 0.93

00:51:04.220 Disgust her. 0.56

00:51:05.300 Make her angry. 0.79

00:51:06.240 Make her so happy.

00:51:07.200 Make her like so happy she cries.

00:51:08.840 Please.

00:51:09.620 Yes.

00:51:10.700 Give her a love.

00:51:18.960 Move she. 0.99

00:51:19.960 Move she. 0.99

00:51:20.920 Move she. 0.99

00:51:22.760 Move.

00:51:23.440 Move.

00:51:25.480 Move.

00:51:25.620 Move.

00:51:36.700 Move.

00:51:37.880 Move.

Based Camp - April 26, 2024

Hamza： How the Red Pill Can Destroy Your Life

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