How A Gay Jew Rewrote Core Catholic Doctrine in the 1960s (This is CRAZY)
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 15 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
6
sentences flagged
Toxicity
24
sentences flagged
Hate speech
49
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode, we discuss the influence of a man who may or may not have had gay sex with men in the Catholic Church, and why it matters so much that he was a priest in the church. We also discuss why so many of our Catholic friends hate Vatican II and why we should be worried about it.
Transcript
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If you clicked on this video and are wondering, is this a clickbait title?
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So I saw a title going through on a Redeem Zoomer video.
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But he's a pretty small C conservative content creator.
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Generally tries to dig into the meat and bones of religious history, Christian history, and theology.
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and it was the gay jew who infiltrated catholicism or the vatican or something like that
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anyway i read this and i was like this isn't normal regime zoomer content right it might
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it can't possibly be true malcolm i start listening to the video i get to the end of it
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and i'm like oh my god i have to know more so i need to clarify a few things about this
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particular individual and the influence they have had on Catholicism. First of all, is this somebody
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who was just like same-sex attracted or, you know, not actually sleeping with men? Or maybe they,
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long after writing the documents that became important parts of Vatican II, Nostra Iatra,
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they maybe long after had gay sex or started doing gay activism or something like that.
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they were while they were a priest during the time period they wrote these documents
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yeah and then it's like well hold out how can you be a catholic priest in it i mean i guess you
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could be a matrilineal right so here's the other thing i was like maybe they're just ethnically
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jewish or something like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they're probably not actually a jew
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just matrilinearly matrilinearly jewish and that's it right and then he is by the way
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matrilinearly jewish his one of the things he fought hardest to normalize within the vatican
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and catholicism as a policy is that it is immoral to attempt to proselytize to and convert jews to
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christianity does that sound a lot like somebody who actually deconverted from judaism that makes
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no sense if you actually believe christian principles right like you would i'm saying
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this i'm trying to be like as i have i have tackled this particular conundrum every way i can in my
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head and the only way because then like wouldn't he convert back to judaism
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but the only way i can get it to make sense when i piece together his various writings and then it
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does make sense is he thinks that the jews are still under the first covenant and that as such
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you can have a believe that the jewish worldview is both 100 correct and accurate and the christian
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worldview is simultaneously 100 correct and accurate because the first covenant stands and
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you have the second covenant and so he basically i mean if this is true it means that he 100
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believed in even if he was telling the truth about being a catholic catholicism and judaism
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or a form of Catholicism that's heavily different from other forms of Catholicism, because now
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we're going to get to what did he write? So he wrote Nostra Eata. This is an official
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declaration of the Second Vatican Council. It was overwhelmingly approved with a final vote of 2021
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in favor and only 88 against, and it was promulgated or officially issued by Pope Paul VI
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on october 28th 1965 what that means in terms of catholic doctrine is that's not the same thing as
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a papal bull right like it doesn't mean that it directly came from god but what it does mean
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according to the catechism of the catholic church or like their official documents about what all
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catholics have to do is catholics quote-unquote owe it religious assent or a sincere submission
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of intellect and will see ccc 892 to 893 it is not optional and i will read through that the
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like official catholic doctrine on these types of policies but what it said and what it introduced
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to catholicism as a concept is that other religions including religions outside of the
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Abrahamic tree like Hinduism and Buddhism have a ray of divine truth to them and it's even written
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it can be interpreted like now after I went over this document I understand now why so many of our
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Catholic friends hate Vatican II I'm reading this and I'm like whoazers like this is pretty wild
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and it goes through and sort of praises things about other major religions and sort of creates
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commandments essentially for catholics around getting along with them rather than necessarily
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trying to convert them that's um very convenient if a jew had entered the catholic church
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by the way other final crazy thing is he also deconverted oh so he like came in vandalized
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church policy and then vandalized church policy in a very and note when i say he wrote the nostra
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aleta this document it's not like he co-wrote it or something like that he wrote the entirety as
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far as church history and anyone is aware okay first draft of this document yes it was heavily
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edited after its first draft and before it entered this sort of church law and stuff like that and
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actually it seemed to have gotten even worse in future edits in his original writing of it
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it was really just focused on jews and christians getting along and judaism being partially true
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and all of the like hinduism and buddhism stuff was added by other oh so like the
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yeah but the reason he left was also crazy so was in the church and during his time in the church
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he was a well-known lgbt activist and he left the church we'll go into that because as he said
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the the the church's stance on gates which is odd because one he it's he was a priest he's not
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in catholic terms at least it's that that doesn't just mean you can't sleep with women
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you can't sleep with anyone as a catholic priest yeah like their stance on gays had nothing to do
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was the fact that he couldn't sleep with yeah it's about celibacy it's not about selective
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celibacy yeah although he was doing that anyway he ends up by the way long-term dating another
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catholic priest who is gay or former catholic priest well i just no i just want the yaoi manga
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version of this yeah you know how oh you want to get even more manga do you know who he's married
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to today neil degrasse i don't know who what an ex-catholic nun god you said that in my my
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computer just like demonically shut off it was like to process that it was an ex-catholic nun
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who he's married to now oh my well a very mannish nun perhaps no no they don't have a sexual
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relationship i think it's so that he can more easily have both a long-term relationship which
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is something he's always wanted and practice casual sex with gay men in in potentially large
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numbers so okay i set the scene i think this is absolutely crazy i now understand why like all of
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the same catholics who like are our friends are all like yeah i'm not like a big fan of vatican
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too and that some some fishy stuff went on with that right and let's let's just go into this okay
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because it gets so um he knew he was attracted to men in his teenage years but remained celibate
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during his time as a priest ordained in the 1950s left the priesthood in 1974 and note his conversion
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into casselicism is also pretty fishy so we'll get into that as well in his 2016 autobiography
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The Oil Has Not Run Dry, he publicly came out. He described falling in love with men emotionally
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in his younger years. The joy mixed with pain because it couldn't be reciprocated due to his
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vows. His first gay experience was at the age of 40, around 1963. This was around the age that he
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wrote this document, which he described as exciting but ultimately disappointing because he wanted a
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partner. After leaving the priesthood, he married Shirley Flynn, a former nun, in 1978. They lived
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together platonically until her death in 2007. He described continuing to explore his sexuality in
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other quote-unquote non-conformist ways. In 1986, after moving to Montreal, he fell in love with a
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former priest, a male partner, and remained committed to that relationship. Now, this is
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also pretty interesting because that's a huge age gap relationship there on the bright side i mean
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we've got the gay romance we got the costumes we got the age gap this is just perfect manga fodder
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for some kind of priest yaoi series so this is that one of the things where if you come to the
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conclusion that i do in this and you're watching this that he just never stopped being jewish i'm
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not getting the jewishness in any of this though i where's where is the jew coming in we haven't
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we haven't gotten to that yet okay because i'm not none of this feels like someone who's very
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jewish i just it just feels like someone who's kind of trolling the church but if you if you
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no suppose you are an actual jew right now keep in mind jews aren't supposed to be gay either so
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like he's not good at being a jew in that respect again to my point now this doesn't sound like a
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jew this sounds like maybe someone a little bit early urban monoculture someone very 1960s-ish
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just like free love everything is real god comes in many forms that kind of person there's nothing
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particularly jewish about that that has to do with a loss of culture a loss of tradition
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no but imagine you're you're jewish right even a bad jew i i still think even as a bad jew even
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with that level of sin this is one of those like sneak stat sins where i often joke that jews are
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just specked into like way too high a sneak stat it's not just they come off as sneaky it's the
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fact that massad has been able to pull off these insane things like getting terrorists to pay them
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for pagers i love that yeah and most recently there's been this big scare with massad being
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a little bit too socially connected with a lot of high-ranking trump officials and they're sending
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all this intel back on what internally the u.s government is talking about vis-a-vis the iran war
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yeah but imagine the civilization level sneak stat that is to sneak your way into everything
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which decides what is religiously true for catholics okay okay so he's he's massoting
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the catholic church is what you're trying to say with documentation that says you're not allowed
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to go against the jews that's not even like that's not even like i'm just like damn really isn't that
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just isn't that what he wrote more just like let's try to be more cooperative and kind vis-a-vis other
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no it basically affirms judaism is is partially true and worshiping the same god well it is this
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i mean they they share the old testament yeah but most catholics before vatican 2 did not think
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jews were worshiping the same god that is even the concept of that is really a post vatican
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jews worship the god of the old testament and christians worship the god of the old i know
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that makes sense to you as a techno puritan because we believe the same thing i'm just
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saying that most christians don't believe that they do i guess someone's going to explain this
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to me in the comments so yeah fine i'll take i'll take your word for it and then go to the comments
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so i decided to look more into this to see how popes after it was out related to it and it looks
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like they've just built on it since then you have pope paul this was the one who put the whatever on
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it the the seal on it then you've got pope john paul ii who frequently referenced and built upon
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it examples include addresses an anniversary specifically his 20th address in 1985 his 1986
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visit to the rome synagogue and multiple statements on jewish christian relations um then you have
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pope benedict the 16th who wrote a letter for the 40th anniversary in 2005 praising it for opening
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a new era so he explicitly praised it in relation with jews and overcoming prejudices as both cardinal
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and pope he affirmed its role while noting some limitations e.g it focuses positively on religion
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but should address the sick and distorted forms of those religions okay whatever pope francis
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marked the 50th anniversary 2015 in a general audience calling the message quote-unquote
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always timely and quoting sections on judaism and islam and emphasize practical dialogue friendship
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and cooperation in the document then we have pope leo the 14th who recently gave an address to a
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general audience for the 60th anniversary highlighting its ongoing urgency for jewish
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catholic relationships so what i'll note here is yes none of these are like paypal bulls or anything
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like that but for half a century at this point well over half a century at this point every
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single pope has reaffirmed and built on this document this inception was deep and thorough
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it looks like the age gap might have been around like 25 years for one of his relationships well
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i mean you know they're very common these days so yeah so we'll start with his sexuality stuff
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then we'll get into the jew stuff but that is that is fast and it makes me understand more why
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we see so many of the catholics who do not think the church is is as it exists right now is
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something that they can follow and they've gone for other versions they're sort of past iterations
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of what the church taught and it's always fascinating to me that they don't consider
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themselves schismatic although what's really funny is a lot of the like most famous schismatics
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like martin luther also didn't want to consider themselves as schismatic other individuals who
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didn't consider themselves schismatic were john calvin and henry the eighth and john wycliffe
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i personally don't understand this you know now that protestantism is large maybe it's just twisted
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my brain on this issue so like that's just a common thing that happens to people where you
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have this sort of trans schismatic take where it's like i don't define myself as schismatic
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and i'm just looking at the guy in a wig and i'm like but you're clearly just a guy in a wig right
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like you're ignoring the church's teachings right you know that seems but anyway to continue here
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and i think that at the end of the day whether or not you're schismatic or not does actually
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come from whether or not you define yourself as schismatic i actually buy into the the trend
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thing of schismism because you at the end of the day get to decide you know what your heart thinks
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right so even if i as an outsider would be like this looks schismatic to me they is these insiders
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wouldn't right so to continue there he knew he was attracted to men in his teenage years but
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remained celibate during that time as a priest and he used priesthood to sort of this was part
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of what seemed to motivate him to become a priest the ability to live a celibate lifestyle and and
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not be drawn to this in his 2016 autobiography the oil has not run dry so keep in mind this stuff
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about who he's sleeping with and when he's sleeping with him is not coming from outside
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hostile sources this is from his own mouth talk about this oh sorry we just went wait did we just
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go through this yeah we went through his first sexual experience and stuff like that he described
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wanting to explore his sexuality in non-conformist ways so anyway this is where it gets interesting
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right so remember i mentioned when his sexual experience was right so that would have happened
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when he was 40 years old okay so the document by the pope right was officially promulgated that
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means this is when the pope you know basically affirmed this document when he was 42 years old
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he apparently wrote the first draft of the document when he was 38 years old and would
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have been working on the inter drafting process during this time when he was having gay sex
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right so to get some quotes from him looking back i began to realize my vow of celibacy
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had not been a meaningful religious commitment but simply a promise to bracket my homosexuality
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to refuse to explore its meaning and power he decided to leave the priesthood since quote
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since i no longer agreed with the church's official sexual ethics and was exploring my
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sexuality in non-conformist ways again what you left the church to explore your sexuality in
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non-conformist ways my brother straight men don't get to do that either like the level of this guy's
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commitment to the church not high that is a little yeah and this is actually something really weird
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about Catholicism that I'm beginning to notice and I noticed this from his writings on Catholicism
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the way he relates to Catholic theology is a lot of people who are at like controlling levels within
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the Catholic church and Catholic religious orders are significantly less religiously faithful than
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I'd say like the average lay Catholic that I know and that's been very very surprising to me and I
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well there's also such this it is a little something that I struggle with with the Catholic
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church is the lifestyle, the day, just the day-to-day routine of someone who is in the clergy
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is so different from the day-to-day routine of a lay person who's really deeply engaging all the
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sacraments, right? Because you're looking at one life that has possibly a lot of solitude, you know,
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a lot of sort of communal living, sort of like a university style living. If you are, you know,
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in a group or more isolated living, very independent versus, you know, a teaming family,
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lots of young kids running around lots of I mean obviously priests work closely with their
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community too it's just it worries me that and what I like about the LDS church for example
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is that the people who are involved in policy are people who are they came from the church
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they raised families they they've done the whole thing they're living the LDS life or they lived
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the LDS life and now they're older and senior and now influencing it and trying to make it
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sustainable and good, presumably. But if you're a Catholic priest, you've never done that. Like
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you haven't had the family, you haven't raised the kids. You don't know the challenges of raising a
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kid in the church in the modern day. Why do Catholics have such low fertility rates when
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contrasted with other groups? I mean, it can't help. There are so many factors, but yeah. So
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when you say you don't see such great adherence from the clergy, well, can you be surprised when
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the clergy don't really live the life of the lay person they can't because they can't be married
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they can't have kids they can't raise children within the church they instead it's kind of like
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how something i've noticed in this like in a very different world there's a lot of childless women
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who worked as nannies or as teachers and they're like well you know and they sort of act like they
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know really well like i know how a child should be raised i know all these things but they never
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really have lived it, right? They've only been like paid staff who work with children under
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certain conditions, but they don't know the full experience of it. And then they're very judgmental
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around like parents and parenting and how a child should be raised, even though they don't know what
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it's like to be on the hook 24 seven. And I think there might be a similar dynamic that takes place
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with like a full-time clergy who's not allowed to engage in the sacrament of having kids and
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getting married because they're viewing it from a limited perspective that makes them think like
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fully understand the experience when they really can't does that make sense also one of the things
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that was increasingly clear to me as i studied this guy's life is he seemed to do very little
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for like actually like if you look at his writings and stuff like that they predominantly see tied to
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gay activism right like it almost seems like he was living off of catholic tithings while spending
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his day and nights promoting like because he just had you know you have time to think in free time
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when you're doing something like this promoting gay stuff and that seems to be a big way that
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like the sort of gayness became more normalized within the church was specifically downstream of
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him but to continue here and gayness is super normalized in the catholic church to the extent
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that we've pointed out there's even an article on like the gayness of catholic priests where it's
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argued between 25 from surveys 25 and 50 percent of catholic priests are same-sex attracted which
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isn't a ding on them i mean we often say this is actually kind of a an ethical way for society to
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deal with same-sex attraction if it if if you know it's saying you can't participate in it you know
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at least use these people like ethically sourced eunuchs so you can get people without as much
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nepotism to have positions of authority within your religious institutions right like but that's
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also going to make them like way more open to these ideas and in an environment where people
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are skirting around these ideas and i think that this might be where the normalization especially
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in the heart of the catholic church of trying to cover up the child the everybody knows what
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scandal i'm talking about i guess i'll put a line from south park here why would he put anything in
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your butt we don't know or that's what we're trying to figure out hmm hello there children
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chef what would a priest want to stick up my butt goodbye
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now i want to be clear that the catholic institution was committing these essay
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attempts at lower rates than other large institutions like the u.s public school system
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by pretty significant margins but that doesn't explain why they tried to cover it up like up to
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the highest levels of the church and put people in positions where they could continue to do this
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even after the cover-up like if you're going to do a cover-up for reputation at least keep the
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people away from kids afterwards it was almost as if or at least in terms of how they were acting
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that they thought the mere fact that people were upset at them for sleeping with children was the
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problem and i think we even see how the sentiment could potentially arrive through individuals like
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milo yiannopoulos where he originally said that this was like a sexual awakening for him when a
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a priest hooked up with him as a kid and that others may feel that way as well and like the
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outside world just doesn't understand it's i don't know one potential perspective like okay
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so bear with me here but suppose you're like milo and you were molested as a young person
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but you felt it very affirming for whatever reason stockholm syndrome whatever or even
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you actually did feel it affirming it was like an important awakening for you and then other you see
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other people doing the same thing to other children and you then see them being punished
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for it and you would think oh well this doesn't make sense look just i as an outsider i'm trying
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to find any logical reason why a good person would do this and maybe Catholics can chime in
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and explain why they think that the church may have been covering this up in the way that they
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were covering it up where it allowed the people who were doing it to keep doing it this year
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we're taking the boys on a weekend boat trip to discuss Jesus's role as the navigator of our lives
00:25:22.120
the catholic boat it's gonna be heading on out today
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the catholic boat get some hot christian action that'll take you
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the the it's always really perplexed me like why did they not why why were they trying to protect
00:25:50.960
these priests right when they were like moving around the priests that they knew were the issues
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instead of dealing with them like i always thought there must be some form of normalization that i'm
00:26:00.000
not aware of then i read this guy's writings in daily life and i'm like oh if there were a bunch
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of priests like this guy that explains it there there's basically a what do you call it a gay cult
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that has infiltrated the upper rings of the catholic church the vatican right like
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now to keep their mouths shut right and so wait a minute what yes but we've got to find out why
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these children are suddenly finding it necessary to report that they're being molested stop the
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problem at its source yes what that's what yeah everyone he's married to and having sex was after
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he left was a former priest it doesn't look great that that happened yeah okay or or it just means
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that when people realize they can't adhere to the values and rules of the church they leave which
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could be a sign that those who remain are being pretty good i don't i'm i don't know just maybe
00:26:53.120
maybe right that could be yeah so a note here this episode people might be like malcolm like
00:26:58.960
this seems like an area where you could really dunk on catholicism like why aren't you taking
00:27:03.300
the shots here bro like we all know you want to and this is one of those oh no no no no no like
00:27:08.840
this is too bad even for me like i'm like i feel bad about this i would like learning this history
00:27:14.620
it wasn't like it was almost like a curse to acknowledge for me because i was like oh like
00:27:20.960
this is this is not fun to know happened to your religion right like this is this is too much of a
00:27:28.860
this is like you know you don't like the other team but then you see them do so bad in a particular
00:27:33.740
game that they just get completely owned and they're they're walking off the field and you're
00:27:38.960
just like i'm i'm sorry that happened to you guys that was painful to watch which is what learning
00:27:44.180
the story of this guy has been in terms of like my thoughts on the vatican but to continue here
00:27:51.660
and no here i'm not saying this because i'm anti-jewish or anti-gay like everybody if this
00:27:57.220
guy was secretly a jew right like dang right like i'm just sort of like we all should be advocating
00:28:05.260
for our own group this is this is where you know when somebody sees a jew say something like well
00:28:11.200
you know i support israel over the united states and people are like oh can you believe they i'm
00:28:18.360
like i mean they're jewish yeah like i support america over any other country but i'm i'm an
00:28:24.420
american right you know that's like the core of my identity my genetic history my cultural history
00:28:31.300
and if i lived in for example britain i would never move to supporting britain over america
00:28:37.780
just because i had a job there i should clarify this is very different from supporting your own
00:28:41.760
in a way that creates negative externalities like the jews did where the adl ended up supporting
00:28:46.980
and trying to de-platform that content creator who rightfully was calling out orthodox jewish
0.80
00:28:52.480
communities for running welfare fraud or habad did and getting that guy who killed a bunch of
00:28:56.660
people off or the mormon sort of cabal did around the bricks and minifigs yeah that's that creates
00:29:04.580
problems but in terms of just being pro-mormon if you're mormon and you know saying oh i'll hire
00:29:10.320
a mormon over a non-mormon like of course of course why would why would we not want that's
00:29:15.320
presumably what we all want i mean in this respect sometimes we'll have like jewish fans or
00:29:20.200
catholic fans who'll be like oh well i'd support america over israel or i'd support america over
00:29:25.920
the vatican and i'm like it doesn't i mean i support america because i'm an american and
00:29:32.120
my religious and cultural history is american if your plan is to eventually become fully american
00:29:40.240
that will eventually i mean intergenerationally lead to a break from your past identity it's
00:29:48.100
not a flex to not care about protecting your people your people are different from our people
00:29:56.760
and if you deny that you can america does integrate people but full integration eventually
00:30:05.580
means some form of true and permanent separation from whatever your original group is and i think
00:30:12.900
that we're actually seeing that within portions of the american catholic population and their
00:30:18.640
relation with the vatican right now it's just when is this fully accepted and as well as with
00:30:24.240
the american portions of the american jewish population like the jew who tells me as some
00:30:29.120
jews have that they would support american interests over the interests of jews more broadly
00:30:33.760
i don't hear that and think oh that's super cool or the the catholic who's like i would support
00:30:39.060
american interest over the vatican interest i don't hear hear that and i'm like oh oh yeah you're
00:30:44.660
so cool like any more than like if i moved to another country even if even if i spent 50 or 60
00:30:50.600
years there i wouldn't support that country over america and some people can move to america and
00:30:56.120
become fully american like i think leaflet's a good example of this but you know i don't expect
00:31:01.880
that from everyone it's just that when it's clear that a person isn't moving here for that reason
00:31:07.760
there's probably another place where they would be better suited you know that's it the guy was
00:31:14.660
playing on team jew you know his his goal was it you know in in inject catholic doctrine with
00:31:24.480
protect the jews right and and he achieved that so to continue here he also said gays had like
00:31:31.120
a special position in in god's design even when he was religious so here's another quote for him
0.62
00:31:36.060
i have asked myself is there a special meaning in the homosexual condition god creates the great
00:31:44.400
majority of humans heterosexual and only a small minority homosexual is there a special task
00:31:50.480
associated with the condition of this latter by the way there is it's it's self-control but that
00:31:56.820
doesn't occur to him an additional opportunity to exercise self-control and an additional challenge
00:32:02.260
since they are an oppressed minority aware of the hypocrisy of society and the damage done by the
00:32:08.200
dominant culture i have suggested that gays and lesbians are intended to extend solidarity to
00:32:13.920
all marginalized groups and demand greater justice because homosexuals are largely invisible in
00:32:19.560
society their prophetic vocation will have a cultural impact and support the struggle for
00:32:25.160
human emancipation so like keep in mind that this is what this guy thought his spiritual mission to
00:32:30.920
do with like the tithings that were supporting him thought simone before i go further
00:32:41.440
maybe this doesn't have more people talking about it because it's so hard to process that it actually
00:32:49.580
could happen i guess like it just like if you were to see a flying saucer land right in front
00:32:58.580
of you or like you were to drive by one in a parking lot you'd be like well i definitely
00:33:02.400
didn't see that because that would that could never happen and so i actually people know me
00:33:07.560
like come on this is a malcolm he's gonna have an anti-catholic conspiracy rant like that yeah but
00:33:12.040
that should go like butter for me but it's just like too blight right like it's like
00:33:17.580
yeah like how could this my brain can't process it it doesn't make sense it's like you spend your
00:33:26.020
whole life on alien conspiracies and then aliens land in your front yard with a flying saucer
00:33:33.040
they come out and elvis is hanging out with him and he starts doing like an elvis dance in front
00:33:39.560
of you yeah and you're like i i don't know what to do with this yeah you're just like what what
0.88
00:33:44.280
what that that's not even like an interesting like gay jew infiltrates the vatican and
0.73
00:33:52.560
incepts them with weird ideology that inverts their prior religious principles what no no
0.74
00:34:00.340
malcolm bad malcolm but we're gonna pull on this thread okay and this is also why for me and
00:34:08.080
and i've always said like this is why i really personally when people always wonder well what's
00:34:13.180
your source of authority right ever having a source of authority that like is living and not
00:34:19.420
dead for me is always really difficult because it can always just decide to disagree with you
00:34:25.520
right like this isn't just something that catholics face like suppose i'm a true believing
00:34:30.520
mormon and i truly believe everything i believe right like and just like tomorrow the church can
00:34:36.860
come out and say your beliefs are officially wrong now update them or you're no longer a
00:34:42.100
correct mormon i'd just be like but i really believed all of that right like you taught me
00:34:48.740
all of that and then i really believed it and now all of a sudden black skin wasn't a punishment
00:34:56.500
right like what do you mean right like that was that was the war right they were the people who
00:35:03.860
set out the war in heaven between jesus and satan right we we we've all i that that's not like
00:35:11.220
tangential to my world view that's a core part of my reality right but to continue here
00:35:17.380
and so i i think that the way that a lot of american catholics have gotten around this
00:35:22.400
is they sort of i think branched with well what the vatican is doing largely around the second
00:35:29.240
council and now they practice something that's like adjacent and may may one day recapture the
00:35:35.180
church but like the you know and if you look at current demographics you know that they might the
00:35:39.900
question is this how far does the church go before they recapture it right but some other quotes
00:35:45.200
because i want to get in his mind here okay the definition of human nature tends to reflect
00:35:53.200
so here what he's talking about is whether or not i think gayness is normal right and he's trying to
00:36:02.540
and because he believes that like white straight males are the cultural elite with like their
00:36:06.480
heteronormative ideas he's trying to argue that like gayness isn't quote-unquote unnatural because
00:36:13.100
i was trying to understand his like theology around this because like the bible is pretty
00:36:15.980
clear on gayness right and so therefore calling gay love unnatural is a cultural statement is what
00:36:23.900
he's trying to argue here not an absolute moral one he challenged the traditional natural law
00:36:29.420
that homosexuality is inherently disordered so let's let's go into to what what i think he means
00:36:38.100
by this basically when he reads in the parts of the bible where gayness is seen as negative
0.54
00:36:45.160
he would say well that was just those cultures at that time and that's where he got you know
00:36:52.160
that's that's where he's like so i don't need to follow what what you know those cultures did
00:36:56.320
because our church's theology and motivation has evolved since then and what's interesting is you
00:37:02.700
can sort of tell under what does he think that it evolved into it involved into the goals of the
00:37:08.660
urban monoculture this sort of you know endless helping of the society's quote-unquote oppressed
00:37:14.560
classes which which doesn't necessarily map onto real oppressed people as we've talked about in the
00:37:18.340
press it's it's more like an urban monocultural distinction of like ethnically superior groups
00:37:22.860
in their mind but let's go into the quote on what he said about catholics and jews because you might
00:37:30.000
think i am overstating him saying you as a catholic you shouldn't try to convert jews he said after
00:37:36.720
auschwitz the christian churches no longer wanted to convert to jews while they may not be sure of
00:37:42.960
the theological grounds that dispense them from that mission the churches have become aware that
0.67
00:37:48.100
asking jews to become christian is a spiritual way of blotting out their existence and thus only
0.81
00:37:54.740
reinforces the effects of the holocaust hold on what
0.94
00:38:05.800
all of jesus's teaching all of jesus's stuff yeah okay okay i'm not this is like this is again this
00:38:15.700
is why i can't process this like how did he get this through like this it boggles the mind okay
00:38:23.720
well keep going maybe it will start making sense no that part wasn't in the official document but
00:38:28.720
that was something that he said in an official capacity we'll get to the stuff in the document
00:38:32.760
in a bit okay let's talk about his conversion so when did he convert to catholicism formerly you
00:38:39.060
know living in a jewish household he had one parent who wasn't jewish his dad he converted
00:38:44.660
at the age of 23 that is very suspicious age to convert why i mean isn't that you're almost
00:38:56.040
fully myelinated like you could argue that's your time of intellectual maturity it's the time to
00:39:02.380
really react most people convert if they are going to convert to a different religion between the age
00:39:07.160
of 13 and 23 but this is also an age where if i was a jew and sitting down and thinking like how
00:39:14.260
could i have the most positive impact was my life for my whiter people like what's the moonshot of
0.71
00:39:20.880
moonshots right like if i could incept a group with converting jews is equivalent to the holocaust
00:39:27.680
and you should from a religious standpoint get along with jews it would be the the vatican right
00:39:33.660
that that's that's the i mean i think of religious orders on earth it might be the largest single
0.71
00:39:40.440
religious order because you know it's like islam there's not like even if you could
00:39:44.780
there's so many different factions so even if you could somehow inception we create and perceive
0.90
00:39:53.140
our world simultaneously and our mind does this so well that we don't even know what's happening
00:39:58.020
that allows us to get right in the middle of that process how by taking over the creating part now
00:40:04.100
this is where i need you instead do an inception on like one of the muslim faiths you still wouldn't
00:40:09.420
affect as many people so just be like oh at 23 i converted and he said he converted after a friend
00:40:15.280
gave him a copy of saint augustine's confessions that's a weird reason to convert like when people
00:40:23.340
generally convert it's either because they're on a mission like actively seeking what they think is
00:40:29.760
true or you know something profound happens to them or they see something that they think can
00:40:35.740
only be described as miraculous like for us or for me the thing that really made me so fanatical
00:40:43.500
in my belief was when like literally happening through this podcast and on this podcast
00:40:50.040
is me going back to stories of the bible that everyone in my childhood told me they said one
00:40:55.100
thing and then i read them and they say something that is one both completely different and
00:41:00.720
completely implausible that people at that period in biblical history could have known
00:41:05.100
see our adam and edip episode or our genesis confirms the bible episode or any like just
00:41:10.300
more broadly i've been broadly shocked by how little and so that had me sort of be like okay
00:41:16.200
it is miraculous to me that i could grow up next to these stories and not realize how
00:41:24.840
sort of correlatory they were to reality as I understood it right you know how much sense
00:41:31.880
they made the things that I thought felt unethical like the Adam and Eve story actually
00:41:36.720
weren't when I reread them and that for me was very that that's like the way a normal person
00:41:41.740
converts I read St. Augustine's Confessions and I converted that sounds like the type of poetic
0.71
00:41:48.540
nonsense that a catholic would buy but i don't really buy it myself but anyway what was his
0.96
00:41:54.920
early work so what was some of the first things that he started writing as soon as he got like
00:41:58.420
officially into the catholic church as a full-time like stafford right in 1961 he published the jews
00:42:05.540
and the gospel later reissued is the new testament anti-semitic he emphasized god's covenant with
00:42:11.940
the jewish people as a valid and irrevocable drawing from romans 11 29 the gifts and the
00:42:17.760
call of god are irrevocable the church is quote-unquote incomplete without israel and judaism
00:42:23.480
continues as a source of divine grace he believed okay so first let's do a broad
00:42:30.820
overview of nostris darte and then we'll go into the various points in it so broadly speaking it
00:42:36.760
promotes a more positive view of non-christian religions e.g positive remarks on hinduism
00:42:41.440
buddhism esteem for muslims stating they adore the one god strongly condemns anti-semitism
00:42:47.360
and rejects charging quote-unquote all the jews was responsibility for christ's passion
00:42:51.480
affirms god's ongoing special relationship with the jewish people quote god holds the jews most
00:42:56.680
dear so again to keep going here let's get into specific authority so first i want to go into
00:43:05.400
like how much authority does this have for catholics okay it's considered an authoritative
00:43:10.340
teaching of the church catholics are expected to accept it with religious assent the same level as
00:43:14.520
most consular or papal teachings that are not defied as infallible dogmas. And if this isn't
00:43:19.320
infallible, but that doesn't mean that Catholics aren't supposed to accept it, we'll get to
00:43:22.780
the official teaching on that. It is not a dogmatic definition, like some statements on
00:43:27.580
Legitman and earlier councils. It's as a pastoral and declarative document addressing the church's
00:43:34.200
relationships with non-Christian religions. Catholics owe it a quote-unquote religious
0.60
00:43:38.260
assent or sincere submission of intellect and will. So the part of the cataclysm of the Catholic
1.00
00:43:43.220
church which is like the official things on documents of this type by the way it says divine
00:43:48.840
assistance is also given to the successors of the apostates teaching in communion with the
00:43:52.820
successor of pete uh and in particular the apostles or apostates sorry i'm trying to keep up
00:44:00.500
apostles did i say apostates yeah that's quite a phiridian tip there the the apostles teaching
00:44:06.000
in communion with the successor pete and in particular way to the bishop of rome pastor
00:44:10.540
of the whole church when without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing
00:44:15.640
an indefinable manner they propose in the exercise of the ordinary magisterium a teaching that leads
00:44:22.020
to a better understanding of revelation in matters of faith and morals to this ordinary teaching and
00:44:28.540
faithful are to adhere with religious ascent so this falls into the category of to this ordinary
00:44:34.100
teaching and faithful are to adhere with religious ascent which though distinct from the ascent of
00:44:41.160
faith is nonetheless an extension of it because castles are also like well it's not exactly like
00:44:47.880
you have just sent with faith and it's like that's true but this is the actual teachings of the church
00:44:51.720
on this because i wanted to double check on this because people always like oh that's like just a
00:44:55.800
vague suggestion from the church it's like it's not a vague suggestion that is not official catholic
00:44:59.820
doctrine that is a this schismatic belief but it's okay right like it's a you know if you if
00:45:06.380
you believe that the church is wrong in this document too then they're just wrong in all the
00:45:10.140
documents right so you know we can go back to the older councils this actually gets to me and i think
00:45:14.780
it helps me explain to myself what's going on better in the same way that i get really confused
0.90
00:45:20.000
when i talk to a jew and they're like your children are jewish and i'm like they're like
0.54
00:45:23.200
one 16th jewish like that makes no sense to me right like i'm like i yeah i mean matrilineally
00:45:29.680
they're jewish but they're not you know no other culture on earth would think of them as jewish
0.82
00:45:35.780
but a jew will think an orthodox jew at least no they are a hundred percent jewish and i just can't
00:45:41.300
understand that because i'm from a different cultural perspective it's the same with catholics
00:45:44.480
where castles will be like well i'm not schismatic and it's like well you you do disagree with the
00:45:47.860
magisterium on these issues and it's like why don't identify it's schismatic therefore i'm not
00:45:52.440
schismatic and i'm like well that's not really and then i'm like oh i just need to see this from
00:45:59.000
their perspective and it's not just their perspective it's also the perspective of the
00:46:03.160
people at the vatican they also don't see these people as schismatic and it's just that i'm never
00:46:07.720
going to be able to understand what it's like to perceive the world in this way yes okay so this is
00:46:13.120
also rooted so if you want to go to where this comes from it comes from vatican 2's lumen
00:46:17.820
gentlemen 25 which the ccc quotes to build this out but the quote from that is this religious
00:46:24.200
submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of
00:46:29.400
the roman pontiff even when it's not speaking ex cathedra that it must be shown in a way that his
00:46:35.980
supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to
00:46:42.580
according to his manifest mind and will so again religious submission of mind and will okay so now
00:46:50.640
let's get into the stuff that was updated by this document the new okay yes simone before we go
00:46:55.480
further keep going i want to i want to see what the updates are okay great yeah so this is in
00:47:02.220
relation to hinduism buddhism muslims etc okay the catholic church rejects nothing that is true
00:47:10.340
and holy in these religions she regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct in life
00:47:18.440
that precepts and teachings which though different in many aspects from the ones
00:47:23.640
she holds and sets forth nonetheless offer and reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all
00:47:29.840
mint that's crazy um that's that's completely crazy and a note here if you contrast this with
00:47:44.740
previous councils right so we have the council of florence conte dominio 1441 what did it say
00:47:51.880
in relation to these sorts of stuff it firmly believes professors and proclaims that those
00:47:59.820
not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics
0.92
00:48:04.700
cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart into everlasting fire, which was
0.62
00:48:10.240
prepared for the devil and his angels. Unless before the end of the same have been added to
00:48:16.660
the flock. That seems like uncertainly a very different teaching. Yeah.
00:48:24.680
In a very different perspective, right? And I think a lot of Catholics still want to hold to
0.97
00:48:29.520
that perspective and so i can see why it's becoming so popular these sort of pseudo schismatic
00:48:34.040
branches so what did the document say about various specific religions right because it also
00:48:38.960
like even went so far as to start glazing individual religions on hinduism it says
00:48:47.060
thus in hinduism men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an exhaustible
00:48:53.000
abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry they seek freedom
00:48:58.700
from the anguish of our human condition, either through ascetical practices or profound mediation
00:49:04.700
or flight to God with love and trust. On Buddhism, again, Buddhism in its various forms realizes the
00:49:11.780
radical insufficiency of this changeable world. It teaches in a way by which men in a devout and
00:49:18.760
confident spirit may either to acquire the state of perfect liberation or attain by their own
00:49:25.460
efforts or through higher help supreme illumination no that i don't know so in the
00:49:32.800
braggartist guide to crafting religion you make it pretty clear there are basically two types of
00:49:37.220
religions you can have two types of approaches to what it is required to be saved and one is
00:49:44.680
limited atonement you you can't save everyone you know not there are some people who are just
00:49:51.020
not gonna make it and these are kind of in some ways not very nice religions because they accept
00:49:58.620
that you can't save everyone and some people are damned whatever that might be have this perspective
00:50:03.860
are the calvinist denominations of protestantism of which we are one and the jews and then there's
00:50:09.460
the other which is a more domineering religion which believes that everyone can and should be
00:50:14.660
saved and in this way the religion is a bit unpleasant because it basically would entail
00:50:20.300
if you really want to save everyone coercing people to convert against their will and what
00:50:25.700
this is trying to do is be neither like it's not like well no no one no one can be saved but it
00:50:31.320
also it's not trying to save anyone it's just like well everyone's kind of right which is
00:50:35.420
kind of the worst thing like i don't care do what you want to do it's the absence of religion it's
00:50:41.720
the antithesis of catholicism and and any organized religion i i just can't believe they
00:50:46.880
like maybe someone's going to chime in in the comments and be like oh this is some obscure
00:50:54.760
piece of writing that's not official in any real capacity i mean could that be is that what's going
00:51:02.120
on here it was affirmed by one of the major councils and the pope yeah but is this the
00:51:09.000
equivalent of like someone hearting something on x you know adding a heart to a post on x
00:51:15.800
and not realizing i went through the other documents that specifically the the cat
00:51:21.780
cataclysm documents and stuff like that so you could read before we get into this exactly the
00:51:27.840
way that catholics per previous rulings that were seen as coming directly from god
00:51:34.200
are supposed to relate to teachings within this category submitting to them it's not the same as
00:51:40.280
having faith in them by the way i put simone's concerns into an ai to see what the ai would say
00:51:45.860
and it says simone's skepticism and understandable as a layperson reacting to something that feels
00:51:50.460
like a massive shift but it's not accurate nostri iata is not some obscure low authority footnote
00:51:56.920
it's a formal declaration of the second vatican council as an ecumenical council overwhelmingly
00:52:01.900
approved 2221 to 88 and officially promulgated by pope paul vi catholic teaching is outlined
00:52:10.120
in the cataclysm of the catholic church 892 to 893 and rooted in lunam gentem 25 requires religious
00:52:18.960
assent a sincere submission of intellect and will to teachings from the ordinary ministerium of the
00:52:24.920
ecumenical council even when they are not infallible dogmas this is distinct from full
00:52:31.160
assent of faith from infallible documents but is still binding and not optional or dismissible as
00:52:37.320
just a suggestion so this isn't someone passively endorsing something without sufficiently paying
00:52:43.360
attention to it or i don't know someone just being like here's an interesting idea sure we'll publish
00:52:49.880
it but like you know how the hoffington post used to be you know they'd be like yeah we'll accept
00:52:53.960
your blog submission and they wouldn't really like yeah this is very very very different than say
00:52:59.740
like the vatican wrote something in an official paper or something like that right keep in mind
00:53:04.720
this had to be of of the declaration of the second vatican council so that's a vatican council mind
00:53:11.360
you right this had to be voted on by the bishops right so okay wow of the vote um 2,221 voted for
00:53:22.420
it and only 88 voted against it so it was also overwhelmingly approved then it was promulgated
00:53:29.380
that's an official issue that means review an official issue by pope paul that's it
00:53:34.180
i mean i obviously i i think that there's i mean catholics i i feel like
00:53:40.700
want to say like and and well you know we don't the real catholics don't take this sort of thing
00:53:49.820
and the way that those documents say you're supposed to relate to this stuff is actually
00:53:55.360
corrupted as well and this stuff shouldn't actually fall under that right i think the
00:54:00.100
catholics actually have a number of outs here there's been a number of things in recent papal
00:54:03.220
elections that could be considered outright fraudulent i may do a whole episode on that
00:54:07.000
at some point whoa really what do you mean outright can you get what do you mean by outright fraudulent
00:54:12.380
they did some things the jesuits did and how they held it wasn't the pope of this pope but it was
00:54:16.900
one of the previous popes i think okay where they pulled some shenanigans that sort of prevented
00:54:22.560
people from voting like the the block that was against them from being there to vote oh wow
00:54:27.920
yeah it was i i can't remember the specifics a catholic was the one who would because obviously
00:54:34.140
they're most invested in this when he was crashing out on me about the jesuits and and and black
00:54:38.480
pilling me on the jesuits and making me sort of see castellism as this fight of like the good guys
00:54:42.900
the opus de versus jesuits for like the heart of what it becomes but uh this the way i sort of see
00:54:49.940
this right now like as i'm looking at it from an outsider is i historically as a kid was of all the
00:54:56.840
sci-fi franchises and i was a big sci-fi nerd the one sci-fi franchise i didn't really like was star
00:55:02.360
wars i i like star trek over star wars starship troopers obviously love sg1 love gotta do a whole
00:55:08.780
video on how they canceled the sg1 reboot because it treated the military too well oh no fans might
00:55:14.500
like it it didn't make the tribals like people might like the military yeah wait and by the way
00:55:20.060
stargate did not universally portray the military well in fact some of the most annoying episodes
00:55:26.320
were ones where they i guess fairly you know well not realistically no u.s realistic depiction of
00:55:32.580
how military bureaucracy can really gunk things up sometimes no no that was those almost every
00:55:37.640
one of the episodes you're thinking of was tied to the u.s senate or congress and the military
00:55:41.720
was a good guy oh yeah yeah yeah okay you're right you're right so it's not like they're even not
00:55:46.040
realistic you know they're like what there are some problems that the military faces the point
00:55:49.840
here being is despite me not being a star wars fan okay watching disney buy star wars and then
00:55:56.980
start to just write like we hate you and poo all over the walls of the property made me genuinely
00:56:03.440
sad right reading this feels a bit like watching the new disney star wars where it's like yeah i
00:56:10.900
might not have been the biggest fan of that property but like why did you have to do them
00:56:14.920
that dirty right like and and as a star wars fan i feel it's probably pretty similar to being like
00:56:21.380
a catholic today where it's like well you know none of the real fans actually take those new ones
00:56:27.740
and consider them canon right we're still all about legends over here what are you talking
00:56:32.540
we're in this for the long run it'll come around again everybody knows disney's eventually going
00:56:37.740
to realize this didn't work as i've heard rumors that they're thinking about doing and and retconning
00:56:42.360
it so we're gonna get a vatican 2 retcon just like go back but they can that's the cool thing
00:56:49.180
is they can they can say look that was a mistake i don't know what happened it's over now undo
00:56:55.680
catholics how could you retcon vatican 2 could it be done i guess the best way to undo we're
00:57:04.380
sorry we were wrong i asked an ai how you could retcon vatican 2 with this context and basically
00:57:12.980
what it said is full deletion is extremely unlikely it would require admitting a major
00:57:17.520
error in a council guided by the holy spirit which undermines everything the church claims
00:57:22.140
about itself i mean i think the most real way to do it was to assert that they didn't have
00:57:27.440
official power when they put it out and that something had that's that's i mean like obviously
00:57:33.240
there's been instances in the past where there's been like multiple popes at the same time and
00:57:37.620
then a council came together and decided okay now we have another new pope that decides you know
00:57:42.840
gets you know clearly you gotta have a a chain of what do they call that the chain of whatever
00:57:47.580
they got together they decided this new pope and then the new pope comes in and and immediately
00:57:51.640
says actually popes rule over councils and the council was like what we brought you here saying
00:57:56.620
you wouldn't do that right so like yeah they've done a bit of this in the past but i don't think
00:58:01.740
any of that was as like written down as vatican ii was i don't think that that counted at the
00:58:06.420
same category of stuff that can't easily be retconned but i mean clearly it retconned something
00:58:11.580
else so like catholics can chime in here so let's go what they said about islam okay the church
00:58:18.060
regards with esteem also the moslems this is what they is islam they adore the one god living and
00:58:25.920
subsiding in himself merciful and all-powerful the creator of heaven and earth who has spoken
0.89
00:58:31.340
to men they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees just as abraham
00:58:38.480
submitted to god though they do not acknowledge jesus as god they revere him as a prophet they
00:58:46.400
also honor mary his virgin mother dot dot dot in addition they await the day of judgment dot dot
00:58:52.000
finally they value the moral life and worship god especially through prayer almsing and fasting
00:58:58.380
hmm yeah which is interesting here when you take our our view or contrast with our view on all of
00:59:08.780
this i mean at least we take the stance of like well we do say that jews and muslims are
00:59:13.060
worshiping derivations of what appeared to be the same god like hindis and buddhists are certainly
00:59:20.620
not like i that was that was wild as the sacred synonym searches into the mysteries of the church
00:59:28.060
it remembers the bond, this is about the Jews, that spiritually ties the people of the new
00:59:33.140
covenant to Abraham's stock, dot, dot, dot. The church therefore cannot forget that she received
00:59:38.360
the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom, the Jews, the people with whom
00:59:43.800
God in his inexpressible mercy concluded the ancient covenant. And then they cite here,
00:59:49.200
on account of their fathers, this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the
00:59:55.460
gifts he makes, nor the calls he issues, Rome 11, 28 to 29. And so this directly quotes Romans.
01:00:02.980
And then further, they say, although the church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be
01:00:07.740
presented as rejected or accursed by God, as this follows from the Holy Scriptures. And then on
01:00:13.840
collective guilt, this is from the Nostra Aetate again, true, the Jewish authorities and those
0.91
01:00:19.980
who's followed their lead presented for the death of Christ. Still, what happened in his Christ
0.89
01:00:25.000
passion cannot be charged against all jews with distinction than alive nor against the jews of
01:00:30.260
today it also decries hatred persecutions displays of anti-semitism directed against jews at any time
01:00:35.940
by anyone okay but yeah i had no idea that is really sad that is that is i mean a potentially
01:00:44.760
near god tier play by an individual jew um and if not that at least a heavy infestation by the
01:00:53.300
urban monoculture because he was already living you know at the very least in the lifestyle of
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01:00:58.040
the urban monoculture you know sex with men while you know writing this stuff down if you see his
01:01:05.180
wider philosophy it's very clearly more tied to the urban monoculture theology than anything that
0.95
01:01:10.920
historically could have been considered catholic values yeah not even close so very crazy crazy
01:01:18.700
conspiracy and you guys conspiracy yeah i guess that the larger question though this doesn't
01:01:24.140
appear to be documented for what you found who let this happen like you're talking about this
01:01:30.260
guy going through publishing all this stuff but all these people that voted for it all these people
01:01:35.260
that added to it to your point right who let this happen like if you want to know how when people
01:01:40.140
act like and this is the other thing that got me i had this impression as an outsider that like
01:01:45.640
when people are like oh we'll retake control of the vatican will we take control of church
01:01:50.060
infrastructure will i hear that and i get this impression that like oh well maybe they've
01:01:56.380
recently been able to get their hooks into the vatican maybe there's like this ideological
01:02:01.260
divide in the vatican 2201 of the bishops approves this with only 88 against this this is not like
01:02:09.220
two power factions or something like that or an infiltration of the vatican if this is an
01:02:15.200
infiltration of the vatican it's what what percent is that yeah i guess i don't know how the voting
01:02:21.680
structure is set up i don't know if this is like people around the world or a bunch of people
01:02:26.680
concentrated in city so again here i decided to ask the ai to find out who are these bishops are
01:02:34.240
they just randos or are they actually the people who run the catholic church and it said the bishops
01:02:40.360
who voted for Nostre Astre, as well as all Vatican II documents, are the actual power
01:02:45.840
structure of the Catholic Church, not randoms. They are called the Council Fathers, the highest
01:02:51.000
level church governments in an ecumenical council. They included all Diocese bishops,
01:02:56.060
head of dioceses from around the world, archbishops, cardinals, Eastern Catholic patriarchs,
01:03:01.880
head of major religious orders with voting rights. It was the largest gathering of Catholic
01:03:06.900
bishops in history deliberately global for the first time bishops came from europe north south
01:03:11.420
america africa asia etc not just vatican insiders and europeans this is why malcolm and simone noted
01:03:18.580
that an extremely lopsided vote only 3.8 percent against it shows a nearly universal buy-in from
01:03:24.260
the worldwide episcopate at the time not just a small clique of vatican insiders 3.8 percent of
01:03:32.120
the bishops voted against this 3.8 and that was in 1965 so like not recently either like when i
01:03:44.740
talk about this institutional capture having been in the vatican for a very very long time at this
01:03:50.100
point i'm not like that isn't me being a conspiracy theorist or something i'm just trying to like lay
01:03:55.540
out like what i'm seeing as an outsider and so the best thing that you can do i guess if you
01:04:02.520
want to recapture it is just breed and yeah get involved i mean yeah this shows things can change
01:04:10.840
and things can also change quite violently but this means that i think that there's hope they
01:04:17.000
can change violently in a different direction are you actually i love simone as an outsider
01:04:24.500
went from like your standard progressive whatever and now she's like the catholic
01:04:31.280
church needs a civil war they must take out the vatican well this is
01:04:37.520
i don't know it's like someone trying to change
01:04:42.160
they're like marching into an anime convention and they're like no this is a star trek convention
01:04:48.360
now like fine but go to a star trek convention like leave the anime nerds alone this is about
01:04:56.000
anime so i don't i don't like autistically i don't like the the the diluting and confusing
01:05:02.260
of the categories i need catholics to be catholics i think if something was written
01:05:07.160
by somebody who deconverts it should be taken out of official church teachings
01:05:11.960
like that should be that should be the thing that invalidates it yeah that's yeah i mean i think
01:05:19.740
until pretty recent history people just didn't deconvert so there is not yet a cultural technology
01:05:27.800
to address that and this is exactly the point you make among many others of course the private
01:05:32.500
for like a good reason it was just like he wanted to have sex with strangers like that
01:05:37.400
seems to be the reason he deconverted again i think there's an argument to be made for that
01:05:41.440
being then the system working as intended that the bigger problem would be if active and especially
0.98
01:05:48.000
policy-wise influential people in the catholic clergy were like i want to have gay sex and i'm
0.94
01:05:54.640
going to just stay and continue to generate policy and do have it all so i don't see the
0.89
01:06:01.840
deconversion is the bad sign but i do see statements that seem to nullify pretty definitional
01:06:12.000
or foundational concepts at least as i as an outsider understand them about catholicism
01:06:18.200
and that's throwing me for a loop but even from pretty devout catholics we hear about these like
01:06:26.600
well there was this conspiracy and this particular faction was trying to mess with things and i feel
01:06:32.780
like there's a non-trivial amount of politicking infighting and influence campaigns that are
01:06:40.320
influencing what's happening in vatican city and to a great extent the most devout active
01:06:46.220
practicing catholics that we know have an attitude of look at the parish level we are going to thrive
01:06:54.400
We're going to follow kind of a pre-Vatican II version of the Catholic Church and pretend that this stuff didn't happen.
01:07:05.220
We are going to leverage the infrastructure of the Catholic Church and of bishops and everything else when we need it.
01:07:12.020
Like if we need a Catholic school to be spun up, they will lean on the formal church when they need to.
01:07:18.500
But for the most part, they're just like, look, what we're creating is what's going to last.
01:07:23.140
we're the ones having kids we're just going to ride this out and eventually they're going to
01:07:29.040
find their way back to sanity but i don't know if that's going to happen so just so you get an idea
01:07:35.400
of like what level of authority this teaching would hold it would hold the same level of
01:07:40.900
authority as something like the theology of the body which actually i think holds a little bit
01:07:46.460
less because it wasn't also affirmed by a religious council so that that sort of gives you an idea of
01:07:51.460
like the level of important and theology of body is pretty important to catholic teaching so
01:07:56.600
yeah anyway i love you simone that's a crazy episode and understatement yeah it feels a bit
01:08:07.540
like is this a simulation because like if there was something this big why was i unaware of it
01:08:16.880
yeah yeah like it seems like one of the first things you would mention
01:08:24.420
if you were a protestant talking about this stuff
01:08:28.100
you would think that yes but again i think it's one of those things where it's so outlandish
01:08:39.840
it's so hard to believe that it just doesn't process and again i i have i think there's at
01:08:46.520
least a good 30 chance that someone a catholic in the comments chimes in and is like this means
01:08:53.040
nothing you're doing the equivalent of you know saying well you know person x responded to person
01:09:01.200
y's comment on youtube and that doesn't mean that's an endorsement of person wise you know
01:09:05.820
yeah or there's different ways of relating to the councils or there's different ways of relating to
01:09:12.580
the bishop so i feel i just have to be missing something it has to be something like this
01:09:17.340
the bishops who voted on this the thing that i is is let less than four percent voted against this
01:09:24.580
like that to me shows that like the quest even if that's true for retaking the vatican is an
01:09:31.520
astronomically uphill battle yeah that's like when my loading bar is at 96 that's like when i
01:09:40.960
you're functionally there yeah it's like there it's done right like it's cooked
01:09:46.500
but they do have fortunately current demographics on their side
01:09:53.740
we'll see we'll see thanks for sharing that with me though that was a wild ride
01:10:02.000
all right have a good one you too what are we doing for dinner
01:10:07.600
you're having the rendang either with french fries or on a hawaiian bun fries okay
01:10:14.520
fancy korean fries or normal fries fancy korean fries oh if we have any i'll make sure we have
01:10:22.320
some we can do curly fries oh i thought you didn't like the curly fries you did like we just
01:10:27.720
gotta cook them a bit longer okay all right i thought i was a prude no yeah people were bad
01:10:33.460
at us for like not being aggressively mean yeah what on earth like hello like when we get me i
01:10:40.100
think this is something that the wider conservative community doesn't get about ayla's relationship to
01:10:46.060
the community we're talking about the episode from yesterday about how somebody from ayla's circle
01:10:51.780
actually made us against early stage abortion which we were not before through a very well
01:10:57.220
argued piece but it starts the story starts with a birthday gangbang well no her her essay doesn't
01:11:03.220
but like our discussion of her does because she recently talked about her experience meeting her
01:11:10.200
future husband. I think, I think they're engaged to be married and they have it together now
01:11:14.500
at Ayla's famous birthday gangbang. Yeah. And I, because people generally in the conservative
01:11:20.940
movement who aren't on like the nerd tech side, they're unaware that Ayla in terms of gravity and
0.90
01:11:27.500
orbit has been pretty useful to the right in that because she tries to always say what she believes
0.61
01:11:35.980
is true means that she is constantly pissing off the trans community and is she oh yeah
01:11:43.480
she is the trans well because you can't really talk about the science around transness anymore
0.52
01:11:50.080
without just incensing trans people and because of that she's actually sort of broke the egg
01:11:56.760
for a lot of people's transition into more and more conservative ideas and i think for a lot of
01:12:03.660
people the trans issue is their first step on that pipeline sex survey does have our big kink
01:12:11.460
survey has one of the best samples of these self-reported trans individuals of probably
01:12:17.820
maybe any research done just given her sample size so i don't know if she said anything that's
01:12:24.080
like disturbing but or that like makes them look bad has she does have very good sample data well
01:12:30.900
i mean she's the one who did the study when we did the trans one showing that transness is linked
01:12:35.780
to violent fetishes oh yeah we used that's from her that's from her studies that's true that comes
01:12:41.220
from but what i mean is while i may think her actions are immoral and more immoral today now
01:12:48.940
that i understand the potential negative consequences of sex and i've become dramatically
01:12:53.040
less sex like i'm kink positive sex negative now i just think that non-procreative sex is bad
01:12:59.100
until we have a better forms i guess i just birth control but in the net she pushes people towards
0.86
01:13:04.700
our movement and and advances like the number of conservative donors she's not encouraging anyone
01:13:09.920
to live her lifestyle like i sometimes i feel like i get this insinuation from people it's like
0.97
01:13:14.600
that she's selling something to them no she's not like the gangbang she tried a gangbang and
01:13:21.980
did not enjoy it everybody like that seems like a pretty good indication of like don't do this
01:13:28.440
people well but more texas so into pulling on everything but she's not trying to bob her
01:13:35.000
lifestyle onto anyone and just like we aren't either like we're not a lot of people like to
01:13:39.420
accuse us they're like you're trying to convince all these people who aren't equipped to have
01:13:43.240
children to have kids like that's something someone just today was accusing us of and that
01:13:48.040
we know we absolutely don't do that so i think people like to miss out on our comments or on
01:13:56.200
like twitter or something on x yeah oh okay so like somebody has no idea what we're about
01:14:01.220
yeah but a lot of people have no idea what ayla is all about so you know like it's i just think
01:14:07.860
it's stupid yeah well i mean the informational sphere i guess just when somebody's aligning
01:14:14.920
with us on anything that puts them on the outs with progressives and they are also helping the
0.98
01:14:21.540
wider project i'm generally like pro though like that's the way i operate i'm generally pro when
01:14:27.460
someone is thoughtful and takes the first principles approach to what they believe and what they're
01:14:31.180
doing and why and that's sometimes those people can still be antagonistic to us or our efforts
01:14:36.440
and i i think that you know in those instances we need to
01:14:47.740
All right, all it is is the way that this way is mastered.
01:14:54.460
It's the way I'm pointing at this, but it's going to be not far.