Based Camp - How A Gay Jew Rewrote Core Catholic Doctrine in the 1960s (This is CRAZY)

00:00:00.000 Hello, Simone.

00:00:02.400 If you clicked on this video and are wondering, is this a clickbait title?

00:00:06.840 It is so much crazier than you think, right?

00:00:10.120 So I saw a title going through on a Redeem Zoomer video.

00:00:13.500 We've had him on the show.

00:00:14.480 I think he's a great content creator.

00:00:16.280 But he's a pretty small C conservative content creator.

00:00:18.840 Doesn't really lean into clickbait.

00:00:20.820 Generally tries to dig into the meat and bones of religious history, Christian history, and theology.

00:00:25.820 and it was the gay jew who infiltrated catholicism or the vatican or something like that

00:00:34.280 anyway i read this and i was like this isn't normal regime zoomer content right it might

00:00:42.820 it can't possibly be true malcolm i start listening to the video i get to the end of it

00:00:49.800 and i'm like oh my god i have to know more so i need to clarify a few things about this

00:00:55.380 particular individual and the influence they have had on Catholicism. First of all, is this somebody

00:01:02.240 who was just like same-sex attracted or, you know, not actually sleeping with men? Or maybe they,

00:01:10.660 long after writing the documents that became important parts of Vatican II, Nostra Iatra, 0.99

00:01:17.840 they maybe long after had gay sex or started doing gay activism or something like that. 0.73

00:01:23.860 they were while they were a priest during the time period they wrote these documents 0.99

00:01:31.540 having active gay sex with men 0.99

00:01:35.080 yeah and then it's like well hold out how can you be a catholic priest in it i mean i guess you 0.99

00:01:43.220 could be a matrilineal right so here's the other thing i was like maybe they're just ethnically

00:01:47.480 jewish or something like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they're probably not actually a jew

00:01:52.200 just matrilinearly matrilinearly jewish and that's it right and then he is by the way

00:01:59.140 matrilinearly jewish his one of the things he fought hardest to normalize within the vatican

00:02:07.600 and catholicism as a policy is that it is immoral to attempt to proselytize to and convert jews to

00:02:17.600 christianity does that sound a lot like somebody who actually deconverted from judaism that makes

00:02:25.180 no sense if you actually believe christian principles right like you would i'm saying

00:02:32.320 this i'm trying to be like as i have i have tackled this particular conundrum every way i can in my

00:02:40.480 head and the only way because then like wouldn't he convert back to judaism

00:02:47.600 but the only way i can get it to make sense when i piece together his various writings and then it

00:02:56.900 does make sense is he thinks that the jews are still under the first covenant and that as such

00:03:05.760 you can have a believe that the jewish worldview is both 100 correct and accurate and the christian

00:03:14.220 worldview is simultaneously 100 correct and accurate because the first covenant stands and

00:03:21.240 you have the second covenant and so he basically i mean if this is true it means that he 100

00:03:27.620 believed in even if he was telling the truth about being a catholic catholicism and judaism

00:03:33.300 or a form of Catholicism that's heavily different from other forms of Catholicism, because now

00:03:37.840 we're going to get to what did he write? So he wrote Nostra Eata. This is an official

00:03:44.740 declaration of the Second Vatican Council. It was overwhelmingly approved with a final vote of 2021

00:03:51.000 in favor and only 88 against, and it was promulgated or officially issued by Pope Paul VI

00:03:58.680 on october 28th 1965 what that means in terms of catholic doctrine is that's not the same thing as

00:04:06.420 a papal bull right like it doesn't mean that it directly came from god but what it does mean

00:04:11.560 according to the catechism of the catholic church or like their official documents about what all

00:04:16.340 catholics have to do is catholics quote-unquote owe it religious assent or a sincere submission

00:04:24.360 of intellect and will see ccc 892 to 893 it is not optional and i will read through that the

00:04:34.620 like official catholic doctrine on these types of policies but what it said and what it introduced

00:04:40.780 to catholicism as a concept is that other religions including religions outside of the

00:04:48.600 Abrahamic tree like Hinduism and Buddhism have a ray of divine truth to them and it's even written

00:04:56.800 it can be interpreted like now after I went over this document I understand now why so many of our

00:05:03.420 Catholic friends hate Vatican II I'm reading this and I'm like whoazers like this is pretty wild

00:05:10.800 and it goes through and sort of praises things about other major religions and sort of creates

00:05:17.740 commandments essentially for catholics around getting along with them rather than necessarily

00:05:23.920 trying to convert them that's um very convenient if a jew had entered the catholic church 0.60

00:05:31.340 by the way other final crazy thing is he also deconverted oh so he like came in vandalized 0.83

00:05:40.280 church policy and then vandalized church policy in a very and note when i say he wrote the nostra

00:05:46.720 aleta this document it's not like he co-wrote it or something like that he wrote the entirety as

00:05:56.060 far as church history and anyone is aware okay first draft of this document yes it was heavily

00:06:03.820 edited after its first draft and before it entered this sort of church law and stuff like that and

00:06:09.440 actually it seemed to have gotten even worse in future edits in his original writing of it

00:06:14.580 it was really just focused on jews and christians getting along and judaism being partially true

00:06:19.520 and all of the like hinduism and buddhism stuff was added by other oh so like the

00:06:25.420 yeah but the reason he left was also crazy so was in the church and during his time in the church

00:06:35.060 he was a well-known lgbt activist and he left the church we'll go into that because as he said

00:06:42.860 the the the church's stance on gates which is odd because one he it's he was a priest he's not

00:06:56.580 in catholic terms at least it's that that doesn't just mean you can't sleep with women

00:07:02.040 you can't sleep with anyone as a catholic priest yeah like their stance on gays had nothing to do

00:07:09.440 was the fact that he couldn't sleep with yeah it's about celibacy it's not about selective

00:07:14.760 celibacy yeah although he was doing that anyway he ends up by the way long-term dating another

00:07:22.760 catholic priest who is gay or former catholic priest well i just no i just want the yaoi manga

00:07:28.180 version of this yeah you know how oh you want to get even more manga do you know who he's married

00:07:35.000 to today neil degrasse i don't know who what an ex-catholic nun god you said that in my my

00:07:44.140 computer just like demonically shut off it was like to process that it was an ex-catholic nun

00:07:51.700 who he's married to now oh my well a very mannish nun perhaps no no they don't have a sexual

00:08:00.260 relationship i think it's so that he can more easily have both a long-term relationship which 0.99

00:08:05.480 is something he's always wanted and practice casual sex with gay men in in potentially large 0.91

00:08:12.700 numbers so okay i set the scene i think this is absolutely crazy i now understand why like all of 0.89

00:08:21.120 the same catholics who like are our friends are all like yeah i'm not like a big fan of vatican

00:08:26.900 too and that some some fishy stuff went on with that right and let's let's just go into this okay

00:08:33.140 because it gets so um he knew he was attracted to men in his teenage years but remained celibate

00:08:39.860 during his time as a priest ordained in the 1950s left the priesthood in 1974 and note his conversion

00:08:45.940 into casselicism is also pretty fishy so we'll get into that as well in his 2016 autobiography

00:08:52.860 The Oil Has Not Run Dry, he publicly came out. He described falling in love with men emotionally

00:08:59.820 in his younger years. The joy mixed with pain because it couldn't be reciprocated due to his

00:09:04.720 vows. His first gay experience was at the age of 40, around 1963. This was around the age that he

00:09:12.700 wrote this document, which he described as exciting but ultimately disappointing because he wanted a

00:09:18.240 partner. After leaving the priesthood, he married Shirley Flynn, a former nun, in 1978. They lived

00:09:25.440 together platonically until her death in 2007. He described continuing to explore his sexuality in

00:09:31.360 other quote-unquote non-conformist ways. In 1986, after moving to Montreal, he fell in love with a

00:09:39.980 former priest, a male partner, and remained committed to that relationship. Now, this is

00:09:47.180 also pretty interesting because that's a huge age gap relationship there on the bright side i mean 0.95

00:09:53.160 we've got the gay romance we got the costumes we got the age gap this is just perfect manga fodder

00:10:00.340 for some kind of priest yaoi series so this is that one of the things where if you come to the 0.54

00:10:09.040 conclusion that i do in this and you're watching this that he just never stopped being jewish i'm

00:10:14.800 not getting the jewishness in any of this though i where's where is the jew coming in we haven't

00:10:19.540 we haven't gotten to that yet okay because i'm not none of this feels like someone who's very

00:10:26.280 jewish i just it just feels like someone who's kind of trolling the church but if you if you

00:10:33.300 no suppose you are an actual jew right now keep in mind jews aren't supposed to be gay either so

00:10:39.280 like he's not good at being a jew in that respect again to my point now this doesn't sound like a

00:10:44.480 jew this sounds like maybe someone a little bit early urban monoculture someone very 1960s-ish

00:10:51.860 just like free love everything is real god comes in many forms that kind of person there's nothing

00:11:00.280 particularly jewish about that that has to do with a loss of culture a loss of tradition 0.71

00:11:05.960 no but imagine you're you're jewish right even a bad jew i i still think even as a bad jew even 0.89

00:11:13.920 with that level of sin this is one of those like sneak stat sins where i often joke that jews are 0.93

00:11:19.760 just specked into like way too high a sneak stat it's not just they come off as sneaky it's the 0.93

00:11:24.920 fact that massad has been able to pull off these insane things like getting terrorists to pay them

00:11:31.040 for pagers i love that yeah and most recently there's been this big scare with massad being

00:11:37.800 a little bit too socially connected with a lot of high-ranking trump officials and they're sending

00:11:43.160 all this intel back on what internally the u.s government is talking about vis-a-vis the iran war

00:11:48.220 yeah but imagine the civilization level sneak stat that is to sneak your way into everything 0.56

00:11:57.660 which decides what is religiously true for catholics okay okay so he's he's massoting

00:12:04.640 the catholic church is what you're trying to say with documentation that says you're not allowed 0.73

00:12:10.280 to go against the jews that's not even like that's not even like i'm just like damn really isn't that

00:12:18.360 just isn't that what he wrote more just like let's try to be more cooperative and kind vis-a-vis other

00:12:25.560 no it basically affirms judaism is is partially true and worshiping the same god well it is this

00:12:33.180 i mean they they share the old testament yeah but most catholics before vatican 2 did not think

00:12:40.500 jews were worshiping the same god that is even the concept of that is really a post vatican

00:12:46.480 jews worship the god of the old testament and christians worship the god of the old i know

00:12:52.460 that makes sense to you as a techno puritan because we believe the same thing i'm just

00:12:57.300 saying that most christians don't believe that they do i guess someone's going to explain this

00:13:01.600 to me in the comments so yeah fine i'll take i'll take your word for it and then go to the comments

00:13:07.360 so i decided to look more into this to see how popes after it was out related to it and it looks

00:13:16.540 like they've just built on it since then you have pope paul this was the one who put the whatever on

00:13:22.180 it the the seal on it then you've got pope john paul ii who frequently referenced and built upon

00:13:28.260 it examples include addresses an anniversary specifically his 20th address in 1985 his 1986

00:13:34.300 visit to the rome synagogue and multiple statements on jewish christian relations um then you have

00:13:41.440 pope benedict the 16th who wrote a letter for the 40th anniversary in 2005 praising it for opening

00:13:49.180 a new era so he explicitly praised it in relation with jews and overcoming prejudices as both cardinal

00:13:55.340 and pope he affirmed its role while noting some limitations e.g it focuses positively on religion

00:14:01.480 but should address the sick and distorted forms of those religions okay whatever pope francis

00:14:07.060 marked the 50th anniversary 2015 in a general audience calling the message quote-unquote

00:14:13.960 always timely and quoting sections on judaism and islam and emphasize practical dialogue friendship

00:14:21.120 and cooperation in the document then we have pope leo the 14th who recently gave an address to a

00:14:27.480 general audience for the 60th anniversary highlighting its ongoing urgency for jewish

00:14:32.260 catholic relationships so what i'll note here is yes none of these are like paypal bulls or anything

00:14:39.440 like that but for half a century at this point well over half a century at this point every

00:14:45.060 single pope has reaffirmed and built on this document this inception was deep and thorough

00:14:52.780 it looks like the age gap might have been around like 25 years for one of his relationships well

00:14:57.120 i mean you know they're very common these days so yeah so we'll start with his sexuality stuff 0.79

00:15:03.700 then we'll get into the jew stuff but that is that is fast and it makes me understand more why

00:15:09.500 we see so many of the catholics who do not think the church is is as it exists right now is

00:15:15.820 something that they can follow and they've gone for other versions they're sort of past iterations

00:15:20.820 of what the church taught and it's always fascinating to me that they don't consider

00:15:25.180 themselves schismatic although what's really funny is a lot of the like most famous schismatics

00:15:30.300 like martin luther also didn't want to consider themselves as schismatic other individuals who

00:15:35.580 didn't consider themselves schismatic were john calvin and henry the eighth and john wycliffe

00:15:41.680 i personally don't understand this you know now that protestantism is large maybe it's just twisted

00:15:47.880 my brain on this issue so like that's just a common thing that happens to people where you

00:15:52.580 have this sort of trans schismatic take where it's like i don't define myself as schismatic

00:15:57.300 and i'm just looking at the guy in a wig and i'm like but you're clearly just a guy in a wig right

00:16:02.700 like you're ignoring the church's teachings right you know that seems but anyway to continue here

00:16:07.400 and i think that at the end of the day whether or not you're schismatic or not does actually

00:16:12.580 come from whether or not you define yourself as schismatic i actually buy into the the trend

00:16:17.120 thing of schismism because you at the end of the day get to decide you know what your heart thinks

00:16:22.480 right so even if i as an outsider would be like this looks schismatic to me they is these insiders

00:16:27.340 wouldn't right so to continue there he knew he was attracted to men in his teenage years but

00:16:33.220 remained celibate during that time as a priest and he used priesthood to sort of this was part

00:16:38.100 of what seemed to motivate him to become a priest the ability to live a celibate lifestyle and and

00:16:43.860 not be drawn to this in his 2016 autobiography the oil has not run dry so keep in mind this stuff

00:16:49.700 about who he's sleeping with and when he's sleeping with him is not coming from outside

00:16:53.380 hostile sources this is from his own mouth talk about this oh sorry we just went wait did we just

00:16:59.580 go through this yeah we went through his first sexual experience and stuff like that he described

00:17:03.560 wanting to explore his sexuality in non-conformist ways so anyway this is where it gets interesting

00:17:10.000 right so remember i mentioned when his sexual experience was right so that would have happened

00:17:18.520 when he was 40 years old okay so the document by the pope right was officially promulgated that

00:17:27.120 means this is when the pope you know basically affirmed this document when he was 42 years old

00:17:32.520 he apparently wrote the first draft of the document when he was 38 years old and would 0.98

00:17:39.880 have been working on the inter drafting process during this time when he was having gay sex 0.77

00:17:47.360 right so to get some quotes from him looking back i began to realize my vow of celibacy 0.90

00:17:53.600 had not been a meaningful religious commitment but simply a promise to bracket my homosexuality

00:17:58.880 to refuse to explore its meaning and power he decided to leave the priesthood since quote

00:18:03.880 since i no longer agreed with the church's official sexual ethics and was exploring my

00:18:10.700 sexuality in non-conformist ways again what you left the church to explore your sexuality in

00:18:20.900 non-conformist ways my brother straight men don't get to do that either like the level of this guy's

00:18:26.560 commitment to the church not high that is a little yeah and this is actually something really weird

00:18:34.640 about Catholicism that I'm beginning to notice and I noticed this from his writings on Catholicism

00:18:39.740 the way he relates to Catholic theology is a lot of people who are at like controlling levels within

00:18:45.500 the Catholic church and Catholic religious orders are significantly less religiously faithful than

00:18:52.700 I'd say like the average lay Catholic that I know and that's been very very surprising to me and I

00:19:00.480 well there's also such this it is a little something that I struggle with with the Catholic

00:19:08.180 church is the lifestyle, the day, just the day-to-day routine of someone who is in the clergy

00:19:13.820 is so different from the day-to-day routine of a lay person who's really deeply engaging all the

00:19:20.980 sacraments, right? Because you're looking at one life that has possibly a lot of solitude, you know,

00:19:26.260 a lot of sort of communal living, sort of like a university style living. If you are, you know,

00:19:31.260 in a group or more isolated living, very independent versus, you know, a teaming family,

00:19:35.700 lots of young kids running around lots of I mean obviously priests work closely with their

00:19:41.300 community too it's just it worries me that and what I like about the LDS church for example

00:19:46.940 is that the people who are involved in policy are people who are they came from the church

00:19:55.060 they raised families they they've done the whole thing they're living the LDS life or they lived

00:19:59.520 the LDS life and now they're older and senior and now influencing it and trying to make it

00:20:04.600 sustainable and good, presumably. But if you're a Catholic priest, you've never done that. Like

00:20:08.940 you haven't had the family, you haven't raised the kids. You don't know the challenges of raising a

00:20:12.760 kid in the church in the modern day. Why do Catholics have such low fertility rates when 1.00

00:20:17.620 contrasted with other groups? I mean, it can't help. There are so many factors, but yeah. So 1.00

00:20:23.580 when you say you don't see such great adherence from the clergy, well, can you be surprised when

00:20:31.560 the clergy don't really live the life of the lay person they can't because they can't be married

00:20:38.620 they can't have kids they can't raise children within the church they instead it's kind of like 0.69

00:20:43.260 how something i've noticed in this like in a very different world there's a lot of childless women

00:20:48.980 who worked as nannies or as teachers and they're like well you know and they sort of act like they 0.93

00:20:55.980 know really well like i know how a child should be raised i know all these things but they never

00:21:01.120 really have lived it, right? They've only been like paid staff who work with children under

00:21:05.900 certain conditions, but they don't know the full experience of it. And then they're very judgmental

00:21:10.480 around like parents and parenting and how a child should be raised, even though they don't know what

00:21:15.500 it's like to be on the hook 24 seven. And I think there might be a similar dynamic that takes place

00:21:19.920 with like a full-time clergy who's not allowed to engage in the sacrament of having kids and

00:21:23.660 getting married because they're viewing it from a limited perspective that makes them think like

00:21:29.720 fully understand the experience when they really can't does that make sense also one of the things

00:21:34.400 that was increasingly clear to me as i studied this guy's life is he seemed to do very little

00:21:40.520 for like actually like if you look at his writings and stuff like that they predominantly see tied to

00:21:46.560 gay activism right like it almost seems like he was living off of catholic tithings while spending

00:21:52.800 his day and nights promoting like because he just had you know you have time to think in free time 0.78

00:21:57.940 when you're doing something like this promoting gay stuff and that seems to be a big way that

00:22:04.340 like the sort of gayness became more normalized within the church was specifically downstream of

00:22:10.080 him but to continue here and gayness is super normalized in the catholic church to the extent

00:22:15.980 that we've pointed out there's even an article on like the gayness of catholic priests where it's

00:22:20.920 argued between 25 from surveys 25 and 50 percent of catholic priests are same-sex attracted which

00:22:26.220 isn't a ding on them i mean we often say this is actually kind of a an ethical way for society to

00:22:31.480 deal with same-sex attraction if it if if you know it's saying you can't participate in it you know

00:22:37.480 at least use these people like ethically sourced eunuchs so you can get people without as much

00:22:41.900 nepotism to have positions of authority within your religious institutions right like but that's

00:22:47.540 also going to make them like way more open to these ideas and in an environment where people

00:22:53.360 are skirting around these ideas and i think that this might be where the normalization especially

00:22:58.980 in the heart of the catholic church of trying to cover up the child the everybody knows what

00:23:03.980 scandal i'm talking about i guess i'll put a line from south park here why would he put anything in 0.97

00:23:08.140 your butt we don't know or that's what we're trying to figure out hmm hello there children 0.99

00:23:15.540 chef what would a priest want to stick up my butt goodbye 0.99

00:23:19.800 now i want to be clear that the catholic institution was committing these essay 0.98

00:23:28.920 attempts at lower rates than other large institutions like the u.s public school system

00:23:33.520 by pretty significant margins but that doesn't explain why they tried to cover it up like up to

00:23:39.080 the highest levels of the church and put people in positions where they could continue to do this

00:23:44.560 even after the cover-up like if you're going to do a cover-up for reputation at least keep the

00:23:50.020 people away from kids afterwards it was almost as if or at least in terms of how they were acting

00:23:55.500 that they thought the mere fact that people were upset at them for sleeping with children was the

00:24:03.260 problem and i think we even see how the sentiment could potentially arrive through individuals like

00:24:09.680 milo yiannopoulos where he originally said that this was like a sexual awakening for him when a

00:24:15.980 a priest hooked up with him as a kid and that others may feel that way as well and like the

00:24:22.780 outside world just doesn't understand it's i don't know one potential perspective like okay

00:24:29.260 so bear with me here but suppose you're like milo and you were molested as a young person

00:24:34.000 but you felt it very affirming for whatever reason stockholm syndrome whatever or even

00:24:41.020 you actually did feel it affirming it was like an important awakening for you and then other you see

00:24:46.520 other people doing the same thing to other children and you then see them being punished

00:24:52.180 for it and you would think oh well this doesn't make sense look just i as an outsider i'm trying 0.87

00:24:57.640 to find any logical reason why a good person would do this and maybe Catholics can chime in

00:25:04.320 and explain why they think that the church may have been covering this up in the way that they

00:25:08.700 were covering it up where it allowed the people who were doing it to keep doing it this year

00:25:13.320 we're taking the boys on a weekend boat trip to discuss Jesus's role as the navigator of our lives

00:25:18.960 that sounds pretty fun a Catholic boat trip

00:25:22.120 the catholic boat it's gonna be heading on out today

00:25:29.100 the catholic boat get some hot christian action that'll take you

00:25:37.100 but uh

00:25:40.680 the the it's always really perplexed me like why did they not why why were they trying to protect

00:25:50.960 these priests right when they were like moving around the priests that they knew were the issues

00:25:55.640 instead of dealing with them like i always thought there must be some form of normalization that i'm

00:26:00.000 not aware of then i read this guy's writings in daily life and i'm like oh if there were a bunch 0.67

00:26:04.880 of priests like this guy that explains it there there's basically a what do you call it a gay cult

00:26:12.260 that has infiltrated the upper rings of the catholic church the vatican right like 0.93

00:26:16.820 now to keep their mouths shut right and so wait a minute what yes but we've got to find out why

00:26:24.060 these children are suddenly finding it necessary to report that they're being molested stop the

00:26:28.100 problem at its source yes what that's what yeah everyone he's married to and having sex was after

00:26:33.900 he left was a former priest it doesn't look great that that happened yeah okay or or it just means

00:26:41.500 that when people realize they can't adhere to the values and rules of the church they leave which

00:26:46.900 could be a sign that those who remain are being pretty good i don't i'm i don't know just maybe

00:26:53.120 maybe right that could be yeah so a note here this episode people might be like malcolm like

00:26:58.960 this seems like an area where you could really dunk on catholicism like why aren't you taking

00:27:03.300 the shots here bro like we all know you want to and this is one of those oh no no no no no like

00:27:08.840 this is too bad even for me like i'm like i feel bad about this i would like learning this history

00:27:14.620 it wasn't like it was almost like a curse to acknowledge for me because i was like oh like

00:27:20.960 this is this is not fun to know happened to your religion right like this is this is too much of a

00:27:28.860 this is like you know you don't like the other team but then you see them do so bad in a particular

00:27:33.740 game that they just get completely owned and they're they're walking off the field and you're

00:27:38.960 just like i'm i'm sorry that happened to you guys that was painful to watch which is what learning

00:27:44.180 the story of this guy has been in terms of like my thoughts on the vatican but to continue here

00:27:51.660 and no here i'm not saying this because i'm anti-jewish or anti-gay like everybody if this

00:27:57.220 guy was secretly a jew right like dang right like i'm just sort of like we all should be advocating

00:28:05.260 for our own group this is this is where you know when somebody sees a jew say something like well

00:28:11.200 you know i support israel over the united states and people are like oh can you believe they i'm

00:28:18.360 like i mean they're jewish yeah like i support america over any other country but i'm i'm an

00:28:24.420 american right you know that's like the core of my identity my genetic history my cultural history

00:28:31.300 and if i lived in for example britain i would never move to supporting britain over america

00:28:37.780 just because i had a job there i should clarify this is very different from supporting your own

00:28:41.760 in a way that creates negative externalities like the jews did where the adl ended up supporting

00:28:46.980 and trying to de-platform that content creator who rightfully was calling out orthodox jewish 0.80

00:28:52.480 communities for running welfare fraud or habad did and getting that guy who killed a bunch of

00:28:56.660 people off or the mormon sort of cabal did around the bricks and minifigs yeah that's that creates

00:29:04.580 problems but in terms of just being pro-mormon if you're mormon and you know saying oh i'll hire

00:29:10.320 a mormon over a non-mormon like of course of course why would why would we not want that's

00:29:15.320 presumably what we all want i mean in this respect sometimes we'll have like jewish fans or

00:29:20.200 catholic fans who'll be like oh well i'd support america over israel or i'd support america over

00:29:25.920 the vatican and i'm like it doesn't i mean i support america because i'm an american and

00:29:32.120 my religious and cultural history is american if your plan is to eventually become fully american

00:29:40.240 that will eventually i mean intergenerationally lead to a break from your past identity it's

00:29:48.100 not a flex to not care about protecting your people your people are different from our people

00:29:56.760 and if you deny that you can america does integrate people but full integration eventually

00:30:05.580 means some form of true and permanent separation from whatever your original group is and i think

00:30:12.900 that we're actually seeing that within portions of the american catholic population and their

00:30:18.640 relation with the vatican right now it's just when is this fully accepted and as well as with

00:30:24.240 the american portions of the american jewish population like the jew who tells me as some

00:30:29.120 jews have that they would support american interests over the interests of jews more broadly

00:30:33.760 i don't hear that and think oh that's super cool or the the catholic who's like i would support

00:30:39.060 american interest over the vatican interest i don't hear hear that and i'm like oh oh yeah you're

00:30:44.660 so cool like any more than like if i moved to another country even if even if i spent 50 or 60

00:30:50.600 years there i wouldn't support that country over america and some people can move to america and

00:30:56.120 become fully american like i think leaflet's a good example of this but you know i don't expect

00:31:01.880 that from everyone it's just that when it's clear that a person isn't moving here for that reason

00:31:07.760 there's probably another place where they would be better suited you know that's it the guy was

00:31:14.660 playing on team jew you know his his goal was it you know in in inject catholic doctrine with

00:31:24.480 protect the jews right and and he achieved that so to continue here he also said gays had like

00:31:31.120 a special position in in god's design even when he was religious so here's another quote for him 0.62

00:31:36.060 i have asked myself is there a special meaning in the homosexual condition god creates the great

00:31:44.400 majority of humans heterosexual and only a small minority homosexual is there a special task

00:31:50.480 associated with the condition of this latter by the way there is it's it's self-control but that

00:31:56.820 doesn't occur to him an additional opportunity to exercise self-control and an additional challenge

00:32:02.260 since they are an oppressed minority aware of the hypocrisy of society and the damage done by the

00:32:08.200 dominant culture i have suggested that gays and lesbians are intended to extend solidarity to

00:32:13.920 all marginalized groups and demand greater justice because homosexuals are largely invisible in

00:32:19.560 society their prophetic vocation will have a cultural impact and support the struggle for

00:32:25.160 human emancipation so like keep in mind that this is what this guy thought his spiritual mission to

00:32:30.920 do with like the tithings that were supporting him thought simone before i go further

00:32:36.520 i'm just so flat like this is so

00:32:41.440 maybe this doesn't have more people talking about it because it's so hard to process that it actually

00:32:49.580 could happen i guess like it just like if you were to see a flying saucer land right in front

00:32:58.580 of you or like you were to drive by one in a parking lot you'd be like well i definitely

00:33:02.400 didn't see that because that would that could never happen and so i actually people know me

00:33:07.560 like come on this is a malcolm he's gonna have an anti-catholic conspiracy rant like that yeah but

00:33:12.040 that should go like butter for me but it's just like too blight right like it's like

00:33:17.580 yeah like how could this my brain can't process it it doesn't make sense it's like you spend your

00:33:26.020 whole life on alien conspiracies and then aliens land in your front yard with a flying saucer

00:33:33.040 they come out and elvis is hanging out with him and he starts doing like an elvis dance in front

00:33:39.560 of you yeah and you're like i i don't know what to do with this yeah you're just like what what 0.88

00:33:44.280 what that that's not even like an interesting like gay jew infiltrates the vatican and 0.73

00:33:52.560 incepts them with weird ideology that inverts their prior religious principles what no no 0.74

00:34:00.340 malcolm bad malcolm but we're gonna pull on this thread okay and this is also why for me and

00:34:08.080 and i've always said like this is why i really personally when people always wonder well what's

00:34:13.180 your source of authority right ever having a source of authority that like is living and not

00:34:19.420 dead for me is always really difficult because it can always just decide to disagree with you

00:34:25.520 right like this isn't just something that catholics face like suppose i'm a true believing

00:34:30.520 mormon and i truly believe everything i believe right like and just like tomorrow the church can

00:34:36.860 come out and say your beliefs are officially wrong now update them or you're no longer a

00:34:42.100 correct mormon i'd just be like but i really believed all of that right like you taught me

00:34:48.740 all of that and then i really believed it and now all of a sudden black skin wasn't a punishment

00:34:56.500 right like what do you mean right like that was that was the war right they were the people who

00:35:03.860 set out the war in heaven between jesus and satan right we we we've all i that that's not like

00:35:11.220 tangential to my world view that's a core part of my reality right but to continue here

00:35:17.380 and so i i think that the way that a lot of american catholics have gotten around this

00:35:22.400 is they sort of i think branched with well what the vatican is doing largely around the second

00:35:29.240 council and now they practice something that's like adjacent and may may one day recapture the

00:35:35.180 church but like the you know and if you look at current demographics you know that they might the

00:35:39.900 question is this how far does the church go before they recapture it right but some other quotes

00:35:45.200 because i want to get in his mind here okay the definition of human nature tends to reflect

00:35:50.280 the self-understanding of the cultural elite

00:35:53.200 so here what he's talking about is whether or not i think gayness is normal right and he's trying to

00:36:02.540 and because he believes that like white straight males are the cultural elite with like their

00:36:06.480 heteronormative ideas he's trying to argue that like gayness isn't quote-unquote unnatural because

00:36:13.100 i was trying to understand his like theology around this because like the bible is pretty

00:36:15.980 clear on gayness right and so therefore calling gay love unnatural is a cultural statement is what

00:36:23.900 he's trying to argue here not an absolute moral one he challenged the traditional natural law

00:36:29.420 that homosexuality is inherently disordered so let's let's go into to what what i think he means

00:36:38.100 by this basically when he reads in the parts of the bible where gayness is seen as negative 0.54

00:36:45.160 he would say well that was just those cultures at that time and that's where he got you know

00:36:52.160 that's that's where he's like so i don't need to follow what what you know those cultures did

00:36:56.320 because our church's theology and motivation has evolved since then and what's interesting is you

00:37:02.700 can sort of tell under what does he think that it evolved into it involved into the goals of the

00:37:08.660 urban monoculture this sort of you know endless helping of the society's quote-unquote oppressed

00:37:14.560 classes which which doesn't necessarily map onto real oppressed people as we've talked about in the

00:37:18.340 press it's it's more like an urban monocultural distinction of like ethnically superior groups

00:37:22.860 in their mind but let's go into the quote on what he said about catholics and jews because you might

00:37:30.000 think i am overstating him saying you as a catholic you shouldn't try to convert jews he said after

00:37:36.720 auschwitz the christian churches no longer wanted to convert to jews while they may not be sure of

00:37:42.960 the theological grounds that dispense them from that mission the churches have become aware that 0.67

00:37:48.100 asking jews to become christian is a spiritual way of blotting out their existence and thus only 0.81

00:37:54.740 reinforces the effects of the holocaust hold on what 0.94

00:37:58.980 that that like undermines

00:38:05.800 all of jesus's teaching all of jesus's stuff yeah okay okay i'm not this is like this is again this

00:38:15.700 is why i can't process this like how did he get this through like this it boggles the mind okay

00:38:23.720 well keep going maybe it will start making sense no that part wasn't in the official document but

00:38:28.720 that was something that he said in an official capacity we'll get to the stuff in the document

00:38:32.760 in a bit okay let's talk about his conversion so when did he convert to catholicism formerly you

00:38:39.060 know living in a jewish household he had one parent who wasn't jewish his dad he converted

00:38:44.660 at the age of 23 that is very suspicious age to convert why i mean isn't that you're almost

00:38:56.040 fully myelinated like you could argue that's your time of intellectual maturity it's the time to

00:39:02.380 really react most people convert if they are going to convert to a different religion between the age

00:39:07.160 of 13 and 23 but this is also an age where if i was a jew and sitting down and thinking like how

00:39:14.260 could i have the most positive impact was my life for my whiter people like what's the moonshot of 0.71

00:39:20.880 moonshots right like if i could incept a group with converting jews is equivalent to the holocaust

00:39:27.680 and you should from a religious standpoint get along with jews it would be the the vatican right

00:39:33.660 that that's that's the i mean i think of religious orders on earth it might be the largest single 0.71

00:39:40.440 religious order because you know it's like islam there's not like even if you could

00:39:44.780 there's so many different factions so even if you could somehow inception we create and perceive 0.90

00:39:53.140 our world simultaneously and our mind does this so well that we don't even know what's happening

00:39:58.020 that allows us to get right in the middle of that process how by taking over the creating part now

00:40:04.100 this is where i need you instead do an inception on like one of the muslim faiths you still wouldn't

00:40:09.420 affect as many people so just be like oh at 23 i converted and he said he converted after a friend

00:40:15.280 gave him a copy of saint augustine's confessions that's a weird reason to convert like when people

00:40:23.340 generally convert it's either because they're on a mission like actively seeking what they think is

00:40:29.760 true or you know something profound happens to them or they see something that they think can

00:40:35.740 only be described as miraculous like for us or for me the thing that really made me so fanatical

00:40:43.500 in my belief was when like literally happening through this podcast and on this podcast

00:40:50.040 is me going back to stories of the bible that everyone in my childhood told me they said one

00:40:55.100 thing and then i read them and they say something that is one both completely different and

00:41:00.720 completely implausible that people at that period in biblical history could have known

00:41:05.100 see our adam and edip episode or our genesis confirms the bible episode or any like just

00:41:10.300 more broadly i've been broadly shocked by how little and so that had me sort of be like okay

00:41:16.200 it is miraculous to me that i could grow up next to these stories and not realize how

00:41:24.840 sort of correlatory they were to reality as I understood it right you know how much sense

00:41:31.880 they made the things that I thought felt unethical like the Adam and Eve story actually

00:41:36.720 weren't when I reread them and that for me was very that that's like the way a normal person

00:41:41.740 converts I read St. Augustine's Confessions and I converted that sounds like the type of poetic 0.71

00:41:48.540 nonsense that a catholic would buy but i don't really buy it myself but anyway what was his 0.96

00:41:54.920 early work so what was some of the first things that he started writing as soon as he got like

00:41:58.420 officially into the catholic church as a full-time like stafford right in 1961 he published the jews

00:42:05.540 and the gospel later reissued is the new testament anti-semitic he emphasized god's covenant with

00:42:11.940 the jewish people as a valid and irrevocable drawing from romans 11 29 the gifts and the

00:42:17.760 call of god are irrevocable the church is quote-unquote incomplete without israel and judaism

00:42:23.480 continues as a source of divine grace he believed okay so first let's do a broad

00:42:30.820 overview of nostris darte and then we'll go into the various points in it so broadly speaking it

00:42:36.760 promotes a more positive view of non-christian religions e.g positive remarks on hinduism

00:42:41.440 buddhism esteem for muslims stating they adore the one god strongly condemns anti-semitism

00:42:47.360 and rejects charging quote-unquote all the jews was responsibility for christ's passion

00:42:51.480 affirms god's ongoing special relationship with the jewish people quote god holds the jews most

00:42:56.680 dear so again to keep going here let's get into specific authority so first i want to go into

00:43:05.400 like how much authority does this have for catholics okay it's considered an authoritative

00:43:10.340 teaching of the church catholics are expected to accept it with religious assent the same level as

00:43:14.520 most consular or papal teachings that are not defied as infallible dogmas. And if this isn't

00:43:19.320 infallible, but that doesn't mean that Catholics aren't supposed to accept it, we'll get to

00:43:22.780 the official teaching on that. It is not a dogmatic definition, like some statements on

00:43:27.580 Legitman and earlier councils. It's as a pastoral and declarative document addressing the church's

00:43:34.200 relationships with non-Christian religions. Catholics owe it a quote-unquote religious 0.60

00:43:38.260 assent or sincere submission of intellect and will. So the part of the cataclysm of the Catholic 1.00

00:43:43.220 church which is like the official things on documents of this type by the way it says divine

00:43:48.840 assistance is also given to the successors of the apostates teaching in communion with the

00:43:52.820 successor of pete uh and in particular the apostles or apostates sorry i'm trying to keep up

00:44:00.500 apostles did i say apostates yeah that's quite a phiridian tip there the the apostles teaching

00:44:06.000 in communion with the successor pete and in particular way to the bishop of rome pastor

00:44:10.540 of the whole church when without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing

00:44:15.640 an indefinable manner they propose in the exercise of the ordinary magisterium a teaching that leads

00:44:22.020 to a better understanding of revelation in matters of faith and morals to this ordinary teaching and

00:44:28.540 faithful are to adhere with religious ascent so this falls into the category of to this ordinary

00:44:34.100 teaching and faithful are to adhere with religious ascent which though distinct from the ascent of

00:44:41.160 faith is nonetheless an extension of it because castles are also like well it's not exactly like

00:44:47.880 you have just sent with faith and it's like that's true but this is the actual teachings of the church

00:44:51.720 on this because i wanted to double check on this because people always like oh that's like just a

00:44:55.800 vague suggestion from the church it's like it's not a vague suggestion that is not official catholic

00:44:59.820 doctrine that is a this schismatic belief but it's okay right like it's a you know if you if

00:45:06.380 you believe that the church is wrong in this document too then they're just wrong in all the

00:45:10.140 documents right so you know we can go back to the older councils this actually gets to me and i think

00:45:14.780 it helps me explain to myself what's going on better in the same way that i get really confused 0.90

00:45:20.000 when i talk to a jew and they're like your children are jewish and i'm like they're like 0.54

00:45:23.200 one 16th jewish like that makes no sense to me right like i'm like i yeah i mean matrilineally

00:45:29.680 they're jewish but they're not you know no other culture on earth would think of them as jewish 0.82

00:45:35.780 but a jew will think an orthodox jew at least no they are a hundred percent jewish and i just can't

00:45:41.300 understand that because i'm from a different cultural perspective it's the same with catholics

00:45:44.480 where castles will be like well i'm not schismatic and it's like well you you do disagree with the

00:45:47.860 magisterium on these issues and it's like why don't identify it's schismatic therefore i'm not

00:45:52.440 schismatic and i'm like well that's not really and then i'm like oh i just need to see this from

00:45:59.000 their perspective and it's not just their perspective it's also the perspective of the

00:46:03.160 people at the vatican they also don't see these people as schismatic and it's just that i'm never

00:46:07.720 going to be able to understand what it's like to perceive the world in this way yes okay so this is

00:46:13.120 also rooted so if you want to go to where this comes from it comes from vatican 2's lumen

00:46:17.820 gentlemen 25 which the ccc quotes to build this out but the quote from that is this religious

00:46:24.200 submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of

00:46:29.400 the roman pontiff even when it's not speaking ex cathedra that it must be shown in a way that his

00:46:35.980 supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to

00:46:42.580 according to his manifest mind and will so again religious submission of mind and will okay so now

00:46:50.640 let's get into the stuff that was updated by this document the new okay yes simone before we go

00:46:55.480 further keep going i want to i want to see what the updates are okay great yeah so this is in

00:47:02.220 relation to hinduism buddhism muslims etc okay the catholic church rejects nothing that is true

00:47:10.340 and holy in these religions she regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct in life

00:47:18.440 that precepts and teachings which though different in many aspects from the ones

00:47:23.640 she holds and sets forth nonetheless offer and reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all

00:47:29.840 mint that's crazy um that's that's completely crazy and a note here if you contrast this with

00:47:44.740 previous councils right so we have the council of florence conte dominio 1441 what did it say

00:47:51.880 in relation to these sorts of stuff it firmly believes professors and proclaims that those

00:47:59.820 not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics 0.92

00:48:04.700 cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart into everlasting fire, which was 0.62

00:48:10.240 prepared for the devil and his angels. Unless before the end of the same have been added to

00:48:16.660 the flock. That seems like uncertainly a very different teaching. Yeah.

00:48:24.680 In a very different perspective, right? And I think a lot of Catholics still want to hold to 0.97

00:48:29.520 that perspective and so i can see why it's becoming so popular these sort of pseudo schismatic

00:48:34.040 branches so what did the document say about various specific religions right because it also

00:48:38.960 like even went so far as to start glazing individual religions on hinduism it says

00:48:47.060 thus in hinduism men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an exhaustible

00:48:53.000 abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry they seek freedom

00:48:58.700 from the anguish of our human condition, either through ascetical practices or profound mediation

00:49:04.700 or flight to God with love and trust. On Buddhism, again, Buddhism in its various forms realizes the

00:49:11.780 radical insufficiency of this changeable world. It teaches in a way by which men in a devout and

00:49:18.760 confident spirit may either to acquire the state of perfect liberation or attain by their own

00:49:25.460 efforts or through higher help supreme illumination no that i don't know so in the

00:49:32.800 braggartist guide to crafting religion you make it pretty clear there are basically two types of

00:49:37.220 religions you can have two types of approaches to what it is required to be saved and one is

00:49:44.680 limited atonement you you can't save everyone you know not there are some people who are just

00:49:51.020 not gonna make it and these are kind of in some ways not very nice religions because they accept

00:49:58.620 that you can't save everyone and some people are damned whatever that might be have this perspective

00:50:03.860 are the calvinist denominations of protestantism of which we are one and the jews and then there's

00:50:09.460 the other which is a more domineering religion which believes that everyone can and should be

00:50:14.660 saved and in this way the religion is a bit unpleasant because it basically would entail

00:50:20.300 if you really want to save everyone coercing people to convert against their will and what

00:50:25.700 this is trying to do is be neither like it's not like well no no one no one can be saved but it

00:50:31.320 also it's not trying to save anyone it's just like well everyone's kind of right which is

00:50:35.420 kind of the worst thing like i don't care do what you want to do it's the absence of religion it's

00:50:41.720 the antithesis of catholicism and and any organized religion i i just can't believe they

00:50:46.880 like maybe someone's going to chime in in the comments and be like oh this is some obscure

00:50:54.760 piece of writing that's not official in any real capacity i mean could that be is that what's going

00:51:02.120 on here it was affirmed by one of the major councils and the pope yeah but is this the

00:51:09.000 equivalent of like someone hearting something on x you know adding a heart to a post on x

00:51:15.800 and not realizing i went through the other documents that specifically the the cat

00:51:21.780 cataclysm documents and stuff like that so you could read before we get into this exactly the

00:51:27.840 way that catholics per previous rulings that were seen as coming directly from god

00:51:34.200 are supposed to relate to teachings within this category submitting to them it's not the same as

00:51:40.280 having faith in them by the way i put simone's concerns into an ai to see what the ai would say

00:51:45.860 and it says simone's skepticism and understandable as a layperson reacting to something that feels

00:51:50.460 like a massive shift but it's not accurate nostri iata is not some obscure low authority footnote

00:51:56.920 it's a formal declaration of the second vatican council as an ecumenical council overwhelmingly

00:52:01.900 approved 2221 to 88 and officially promulgated by pope paul vi catholic teaching is outlined

00:52:10.120 in the cataclysm of the catholic church 892 to 893 and rooted in lunam gentem 25 requires religious

00:52:18.960 assent a sincere submission of intellect and will to teachings from the ordinary ministerium of the

00:52:24.920 ecumenical council even when they are not infallible dogmas this is distinct from full

00:52:31.160 assent of faith from infallible documents but is still binding and not optional or dismissible as

00:52:37.320 just a suggestion so this isn't someone passively endorsing something without sufficiently paying

00:52:43.360 attention to it or i don't know someone just being like here's an interesting idea sure we'll publish

00:52:49.880 it but like you know how the hoffington post used to be you know they'd be like yeah we'll accept

00:52:53.960 your blog submission and they wouldn't really like yeah this is very very very different than say

00:52:59.740 like the vatican wrote something in an official paper or something like that right keep in mind

00:53:04.720 this had to be of of the declaration of the second vatican council so that's a vatican council mind

00:53:11.360 you right this had to be voted on by the bishops right so okay wow of the vote um 2,221 voted for

00:53:22.420 it and only 88 voted against it so it was also overwhelmingly approved then it was promulgated

00:53:29.380 that's an official issue that means review an official issue by pope paul that's it

00:53:34.180 i mean i obviously i i think that there's i mean catholics i i feel like

00:53:40.700 want to say like and and well you know we don't the real catholics don't take this sort of thing

00:53:49.820 and the way that those documents say you're supposed to relate to this stuff is actually

00:53:55.360 corrupted as well and this stuff shouldn't actually fall under that right i think the

00:54:00.100 catholics actually have a number of outs here there's been a number of things in recent papal

00:54:03.220 elections that could be considered outright fraudulent i may do a whole episode on that

00:54:07.000 at some point whoa really what do you mean outright can you get what do you mean by outright fraudulent

00:54:12.380 they did some things the jesuits did and how they held it wasn't the pope of this pope but it was

00:54:16.900 one of the previous popes i think okay where they pulled some shenanigans that sort of prevented

00:54:22.560 people from voting like the the block that was against them from being there to vote oh wow

00:54:27.920 yeah it was i i can't remember the specifics a catholic was the one who would because obviously

00:54:34.140 they're most invested in this when he was crashing out on me about the jesuits and and and black

00:54:38.480 pilling me on the jesuits and making me sort of see castellism as this fight of like the good guys

00:54:42.900 the opus de versus jesuits for like the heart of what it becomes but uh this the way i sort of see

00:54:49.940 this right now like as i'm looking at it from an outsider is i historically as a kid was of all the

00:54:56.840 sci-fi franchises and i was a big sci-fi nerd the one sci-fi franchise i didn't really like was star

00:55:02.360 wars i i like star trek over star wars starship troopers obviously love sg1 love gotta do a whole

00:55:08.780 video on how they canceled the sg1 reboot because it treated the military too well oh no fans might

00:55:14.500 like it it didn't make the tribals like people might like the military yeah wait and by the way

00:55:20.060 stargate did not universally portray the military well in fact some of the most annoying episodes

00:55:26.320 were ones where they i guess fairly you know well not realistically no u.s realistic depiction of

00:55:32.580 how military bureaucracy can really gunk things up sometimes no no that was those almost every

00:55:37.640 one of the episodes you're thinking of was tied to the u.s senate or congress and the military

00:55:41.720 was a good guy oh yeah yeah yeah okay you're right you're right so it's not like they're even not

00:55:46.040 realistic you know they're like what there are some problems that the military faces the point

00:55:49.840 here being is despite me not being a star wars fan okay watching disney buy star wars and then

00:55:56.980 start to just write like we hate you and poo all over the walls of the property made me genuinely

00:56:03.440 sad right reading this feels a bit like watching the new disney star wars where it's like yeah i

00:56:10.900 might not have been the biggest fan of that property but like why did you have to do them

00:56:14.920 that dirty right like and and as a star wars fan i feel it's probably pretty similar to being like

00:56:21.380 a catholic today where it's like well you know none of the real fans actually take those new ones

00:56:27.740 and consider them canon right we're still all about legends over here what are you talking

00:56:32.540 we're in this for the long run it'll come around again everybody knows disney's eventually going

00:56:37.740 to realize this didn't work as i've heard rumors that they're thinking about doing and and retconning

00:56:42.360 it so we're gonna get a vatican 2 retcon just like go back but they can that's the cool thing

00:56:49.180 is they can they can say look that was a mistake i don't know what happened it's over now undo

00:56:55.680 catholics how could you retcon vatican 2 could it be done i guess the best way to undo we're

00:57:04.380 sorry we were wrong i asked an ai how you could retcon vatican 2 with this context and basically

00:57:12.980 what it said is full deletion is extremely unlikely it would require admitting a major

00:57:17.520 error in a council guided by the holy spirit which undermines everything the church claims

00:57:22.140 about itself i mean i think the most real way to do it was to assert that they didn't have

00:57:27.440 official power when they put it out and that something had that's that's i mean like obviously

00:57:33.240 there's been instances in the past where there's been like multiple popes at the same time and

00:57:37.620 then a council came together and decided okay now we have another new pope that decides you know

00:57:42.840 gets you know clearly you gotta have a a chain of what do they call that the chain of whatever

00:57:47.580 they got together they decided this new pope and then the new pope comes in and and immediately

00:57:51.640 says actually popes rule over councils and the council was like what we brought you here saying

00:57:56.620 you wouldn't do that right so like yeah they've done a bit of this in the past but i don't think

00:58:01.740 any of that was as like written down as vatican ii was i don't think that that counted at the

00:58:06.420 same category of stuff that can't easily be retconned but i mean clearly it retconned something

00:58:11.580 else so like catholics can chime in here so let's go what they said about islam okay the church

00:58:18.060 regards with esteem also the moslems this is what they is islam they adore the one god living and

00:58:25.920 subsiding in himself merciful and all-powerful the creator of heaven and earth who has spoken 0.89

00:58:31.340 to men they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees just as abraham

00:58:38.480 submitted to god though they do not acknowledge jesus as god they revere him as a prophet they

00:58:46.400 also honor mary his virgin mother dot dot dot in addition they await the day of judgment dot dot

00:58:52.000 finally they value the moral life and worship god especially through prayer almsing and fasting

00:58:58.380 hmm yeah which is interesting here when you take our our view or contrast with our view on all of

00:59:08.780 this i mean at least we take the stance of like well we do say that jews and muslims are

00:59:13.060 worshiping derivations of what appeared to be the same god like hindis and buddhists are certainly

00:59:20.620 not like i that was that was wild as the sacred synonym searches into the mysteries of the church

00:59:28.060 it remembers the bond, this is about the Jews, that spiritually ties the people of the new

00:59:33.140 covenant to Abraham's stock, dot, dot, dot. The church therefore cannot forget that she received

00:59:38.360 the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom, the Jews, the people with whom

00:59:43.800 God in his inexpressible mercy concluded the ancient covenant. And then they cite here,

00:59:49.200 on account of their fathers, this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the

00:59:55.460 gifts he makes, nor the calls he issues, Rome 11, 28 to 29. And so this directly quotes Romans.

01:00:02.980 And then further, they say, although the church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be

01:00:07.740 presented as rejected or accursed by God, as this follows from the Holy Scriptures. And then on

01:00:13.840 collective guilt, this is from the Nostra Aetate again, true, the Jewish authorities and those 0.91

01:00:19.980 who's followed their lead presented for the death of Christ. Still, what happened in his Christ 0.89

01:00:25.000 passion cannot be charged against all jews with distinction than alive nor against the jews of

01:00:30.260 today it also decries hatred persecutions displays of anti-semitism directed against jews at any time

01:00:35.940 by anyone okay but yeah i had no idea that is really sad that is that is i mean a potentially

01:00:44.760 near god tier play by an individual jew um and if not that at least a heavy infestation by the

01:00:53.300 urban monoculture because he was already living you know at the very least in the lifestyle of 0.93

01:00:58.040 the urban monoculture you know sex with men while you know writing this stuff down if you see his

01:01:05.180 wider philosophy it's very clearly more tied to the urban monoculture theology than anything that 0.95

01:01:10.920 historically could have been considered catholic values yeah not even close so very crazy crazy

01:01:18.700 conspiracy and you guys conspiracy yeah i guess that the larger question though this doesn't

01:01:24.140 appear to be documented for what you found who let this happen like you're talking about this

01:01:30.260 guy going through publishing all this stuff but all these people that voted for it all these people

01:01:35.260 that added to it to your point right who let this happen like if you want to know how when people

01:01:40.140 act like and this is the other thing that got me i had this impression as an outsider that like

01:01:45.640 when people are like oh we'll retake control of the vatican will we take control of church

01:01:50.060 infrastructure will i hear that and i get this impression that like oh well maybe they've

01:01:56.380 recently been able to get their hooks into the vatican maybe there's like this ideological

01:02:01.260 divide in the vatican 2201 of the bishops approves this with only 88 against this this is not like

01:02:09.220 two power factions or something like that or an infiltration of the vatican if this is an

01:02:15.200 infiltration of the vatican it's what what percent is that yeah i guess i don't know how the voting

01:02:21.680 structure is set up i don't know if this is like people around the world or a bunch of people

01:02:26.680 concentrated in city so again here i decided to ask the ai to find out who are these bishops are

01:02:34.240 they just randos or are they actually the people who run the catholic church and it said the bishops

01:02:40.360 who voted for Nostre Astre, as well as all Vatican II documents, are the actual power

01:02:45.840 structure of the Catholic Church, not randoms. They are called the Council Fathers, the highest

01:02:51.000 level church governments in an ecumenical council. They included all Diocese bishops,

01:02:56.060 head of dioceses from around the world, archbishops, cardinals, Eastern Catholic patriarchs,

01:03:01.880 head of major religious orders with voting rights. It was the largest gathering of Catholic

01:03:06.900 bishops in history deliberately global for the first time bishops came from europe north south

01:03:11.420 america africa asia etc not just vatican insiders and europeans this is why malcolm and simone noted

01:03:18.580 that an extremely lopsided vote only 3.8 percent against it shows a nearly universal buy-in from

01:03:24.260 the worldwide episcopate at the time not just a small clique of vatican insiders 3.8 percent of

01:03:32.120 the bishops voted against this 3.8 and that was in 1965 so like not recently either like when i

01:03:44.740 talk about this institutional capture having been in the vatican for a very very long time at this

01:03:50.100 point i'm not like that isn't me being a conspiracy theorist or something i'm just trying to like lay

01:03:55.540 out like what i'm seeing as an outsider and so the best thing that you can do i guess if you

01:04:02.520 want to recapture it is just breed and yeah get involved i mean yeah this shows things can change

01:04:10.840 and things can also change quite violently but this means that i think that there's hope they

01:04:17.000 can change violently in a different direction are you actually i love simone as an outsider

01:04:24.500 went from like your standard progressive whatever and now she's like the catholic

01:04:31.280 church needs a civil war they must take out the vatican well this is

01:04:37.520 i don't know it's like someone trying to change

01:04:42.160 they're like marching into an anime convention and they're like no this is a star trek convention

01:04:48.360 now like fine but go to a star trek convention like leave the anime nerds alone this is about

01:04:56.000 anime so i don't i don't like autistically i don't like the the the diluting and confusing

01:05:02.260 of the categories i need catholics to be catholics i think if something was written

01:05:07.160 by somebody who deconverts it should be taken out of official church teachings

01:05:11.960 like that should be that should be the thing that invalidates it yeah that's yeah i mean i think

01:05:19.740 until pretty recent history people just didn't deconvert so there is not yet a cultural technology

01:05:27.800 to address that and this is exactly the point you make among many others of course the private

01:05:32.500 for like a good reason it was just like he wanted to have sex with strangers like that

01:05:37.400 seems to be the reason he deconverted again i think there's an argument to be made for that

01:05:41.440 being then the system working as intended that the bigger problem would be if active and especially 0.98

01:05:48.000 policy-wise influential people in the catholic clergy were like i want to have gay sex and i'm 0.94

01:05:54.640 going to just stay and continue to generate policy and do have it all so i don't see the 0.89

01:06:01.840 deconversion is the bad sign but i do see statements that seem to nullify pretty definitional

01:06:12.000 or foundational concepts at least as i as an outsider understand them about catholicism

01:06:18.200 and that's throwing me for a loop but even from pretty devout catholics we hear about these like

01:06:26.600 well there was this conspiracy and this particular faction was trying to mess with things and i feel

01:06:32.780 like there's a non-trivial amount of politicking infighting and influence campaigns that are

01:06:40.320 influencing what's happening in vatican city and to a great extent the most devout active

01:06:46.220 practicing catholics that we know have an attitude of look at the parish level we are going to thrive

01:06:54.400 We're going to follow kind of a pre-Vatican II version of the Catholic Church and pretend that this stuff didn't happen.

01:07:05.220 We are going to leverage the infrastructure of the Catholic Church and of bishops and everything else when we need it.

01:07:12.020 Like if we need a Catholic school to be spun up, they will lean on the formal church when they need to.

01:07:18.500 But for the most part, they're just like, look, what we're creating is what's going to last.

01:07:23.140 we're the ones having kids we're just going to ride this out and eventually they're going to

01:07:29.040 find their way back to sanity but i don't know if that's going to happen so just so you get an idea

01:07:35.400 of like what level of authority this teaching would hold it would hold the same level of

01:07:40.900 authority as something like the theology of the body which actually i think holds a little bit

01:07:46.460 less because it wasn't also affirmed by a religious council so that that sort of gives you an idea of

01:07:51.460 like the level of important and theology of body is pretty important to catholic teaching so

01:07:56.600 yeah anyway i love you simone that's a crazy episode and understatement yeah it feels a bit

01:08:07.540 like is this a simulation because like if there was something this big why was i unaware of it

01:08:16.880 yeah yeah like it seems like one of the first things you would mention

01:08:24.420 if you were a protestant talking about this stuff

01:08:28.100 you would think that yes but again i think it's one of those things where it's so outlandish

01:08:39.840 it's so hard to believe that it just doesn't process and again i i have i think there's at

01:08:46.520 least a good 30 chance that someone a catholic in the comments chimes in and is like this means

01:08:53.040 nothing you're doing the equivalent of you know saying well you know person x responded to person

01:09:01.200 y's comment on youtube and that doesn't mean that's an endorsement of person wise you know

01:09:05.820 yeah or there's different ways of relating to the councils or there's different ways of relating to

01:09:12.580 the bishop so i feel i just have to be missing something it has to be something like this

01:09:17.340 the bishops who voted on this the thing that i is is let less than four percent voted against this

01:09:24.580 like that to me shows that like the quest even if that's true for retaking the vatican is an

01:09:31.520 astronomically uphill battle yeah that's like when my loading bar is at 96 that's like when i

01:09:40.960 you're functionally there yeah it's like there it's done right like it's cooked

01:09:46.500 but they do have fortunately current demographics on their side

01:09:51.420 yeah

01:09:53.740 we'll see we'll see thanks for sharing that with me though that was a wild ride

01:10:02.000 all right have a good one you too what are we doing for dinner

01:10:07.600 you're having the rendang either with french fries or on a hawaiian bun fries okay

01:10:14.520 fancy korean fries or normal fries fancy korean fries oh if we have any i'll make sure we have

01:10:22.320 some we can do curly fries oh i thought you didn't like the curly fries you did like we just

01:10:27.720 gotta cook them a bit longer okay all right i thought i was a prude no yeah people were bad

01:10:33.460 at us for like not being aggressively mean yeah what on earth like hello like when we get me i

01:10:40.100 think this is something that the wider conservative community doesn't get about ayla's relationship to

01:10:46.060 the community we're talking about the episode from yesterday about how somebody from ayla's circle

01:10:51.780 actually made us against early stage abortion which we were not before through a very well

01:10:57.220 argued piece but it starts the story starts with a birthday gangbang well no her her essay doesn't

01:11:03.220 but like our discussion of her does because she recently talked about her experience meeting her

01:11:10.200 future husband. I think, I think they're engaged to be married and they have it together now

01:11:14.500 at Ayla's famous birthday gangbang. Yeah. And I, because people generally in the conservative

01:11:20.940 movement who aren't on like the nerd tech side, they're unaware that Ayla in terms of gravity and 0.90

01:11:27.500 orbit has been pretty useful to the right in that because she tries to always say what she believes 0.61

01:11:35.980 is true means that she is constantly pissing off the trans community and is she oh yeah

01:11:43.480 she is the trans well because you can't really talk about the science around transness anymore 0.52

01:11:50.080 without just incensing trans people and because of that she's actually sort of broke the egg

01:11:56.760 for a lot of people's transition into more and more conservative ideas and i think for a lot of

01:12:03.660 people the trans issue is their first step on that pipeline sex survey does have our big kink

01:12:11.460 survey has one of the best samples of these self-reported trans individuals of probably

01:12:17.820 maybe any research done just given her sample size so i don't know if she said anything that's

01:12:24.080 like disturbing but or that like makes them look bad has she does have very good sample data well

01:12:30.900 i mean she's the one who did the study when we did the trans one showing that transness is linked

01:12:35.780 to violent fetishes oh yeah we used that's from her that's from her studies that's true that comes

01:12:41.220 from but what i mean is while i may think her actions are immoral and more immoral today now

01:12:48.940 that i understand the potential negative consequences of sex and i've become dramatically

01:12:53.040 less sex like i'm kink positive sex negative now i just think that non-procreative sex is bad

01:12:59.100 until we have a better forms i guess i just birth control but in the net she pushes people towards 0.86

01:13:04.700 our movement and and advances like the number of conservative donors she's not encouraging anyone

01:13:09.920 to live her lifestyle like i sometimes i feel like i get this insinuation from people it's like 0.97

01:13:14.600 that she's selling something to them no she's not like the gangbang she tried a gangbang and

01:13:21.980 did not enjoy it everybody like that seems like a pretty good indication of like don't do this

01:13:28.440 people well but more texas so into pulling on everything but she's not trying to bob her

01:13:35.000 lifestyle onto anyone and just like we aren't either like we're not a lot of people like to

01:13:39.420 accuse us they're like you're trying to convince all these people who aren't equipped to have

01:13:43.240 children to have kids like that's something someone just today was accusing us of and that

01:13:48.040 we know we absolutely don't do that so i think people like to miss out on our comments or on

01:13:56.200 like twitter or something on x yeah oh okay so like somebody has no idea what we're about

01:14:01.220 yeah but a lot of people have no idea what ayla is all about so you know like it's i just think

01:14:07.860 it's stupid yeah well i mean the informational sphere i guess just when somebody's aligning

01:14:14.920 with us on anything that puts them on the outs with progressives and they are also helping the 0.98

01:14:21.540 wider project i'm generally like pro though like that's the way i operate i'm generally pro when

01:14:27.460 someone is thoughtful and takes the first principles approach to what they believe and what they're

01:14:31.180 doing and why and that's sometimes those people can still be antagonistic to us or our efforts

01:14:36.440 and i i think that you know in those instances we need to

01:14:39.560 I'm going to screw those cars.

01:14:43.780 Let me see my work.

01:14:47.740 All right, all it is is the way that this way is mastered.

01:14:54.460 It's the way I'm pointing at this, but it's going to be not far.

01:15:02.720 I'm going to go.

01:15:05.240 Please.

01:15:09.560 I'm going to have some more.

01:15:16.560 I'm going up the basket.

01:15:19.560 I'm going to have some more.

Based Camp - June 09, 2026

How A Gay Jew Rewrote Core Catholic Doctrine in the 1960s (This is CRAZY)

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