Based Camp - How and When is Sex Ed Appropriate？

00:00:00.000 I was like, okay, let's look into the data on this.

00:00:02.240 Generally, it seems that the more you teach young kids about sex,

00:00:06.500 the less they have sex and the later they have sex the first time. 0.80

00:00:10.460 Do you think that's because adults are tainting it with uncoolness?

00:00:13.540 That could be part of it, yeah.

00:00:15.180 But does teaching kids about sex include teaching kids about abstinence?

00:00:19.880 Now that's interesting.

00:00:21.180 Okay, so you can do abstinence-only education,

00:00:24.020 which actually has a similar effect to general sex education.

00:00:28.780 Interesting.

00:00:29.140 See, I had thought as a kid growing up and younger

00:00:33.020 that abstinence-only education didn't work.

00:00:36.420 That's what I always heard.

00:00:37.660 Abstinence-only education doesn't work.

00:00:38.780 Well, of course, that's because that's what they wanted to tell you.

00:00:40.040 Yeah.

00:00:40.400 That fit the narrative.

00:00:41.600 Abstinence-only education actually does work,

00:00:44.600 but it doesn't seem to work as long as general sex education. 0.90

00:00:48.180 The more a community is told to restrict access to these sorts of things,

00:00:51.740 the more they're going to engage with these sorts of things under the radar.

00:00:55.540 Yeah.

00:00:55.840 It really seems like the best panacea against over-sexual abundance. 0.81

00:01:01.300 So we will teach our kids, basically the answer here is we will teach our kids

00:01:06.340 pretty aggressively and early about human sexuality.

00:01:10.860 Yeah.

00:01:11.060 But because we want them to engage in the topic with moderation,

00:01:16.820 and we think that that is the best way to achieve that outcome.

00:01:22.200 Would you like to know more?

00:01:23.160 We are getting to do a special recording today because we had the disappointment

00:01:28.220 of setting up all our recording equipment for a Great Britain GB News interview.

00:01:33.800 GB News.

00:01:34.500 And this is the second time they've done this to us.

00:01:37.560 But, you know, we always got to be ready for those news conversations.

00:01:40.400 And so we're like, well, we blocked out time anyway.

00:01:43.400 We might as well take the time to chat with each other.

00:01:47.240 Which is more fun.

00:01:48.580 Let's be honest.

00:01:49.100 We had one of those recording sessions ruthlessly stolen from us by a friend where we had to

00:01:56.440 talk with a friend.

00:01:57.920 Oh, my gosh.

00:01:58.600 Oh, my gosh.

00:01:59.340 The burden of friendship.

00:02:00.760 Will it ever leave us, Simone?

00:02:02.700 Oh, God.

00:02:03.360 I don't know.

00:02:04.160 I don't know.

00:02:04.280 One day I hope to be famous enough that I do not care about alienating myself from friends.

00:02:08.400 The whole world can be just you, me, and the kids.

00:02:11.440 Won't that be wonderful?

00:02:12.540 Yeah, except then, like, the friends that you do hang out with probably just hang out

00:02:17.380 with you because you're famous, which sounds annoying.

00:02:20.900 No, no.

00:02:21.240 I don't want any friends.

00:02:22.320 Once I'm at that level.

00:02:23.280 Because we just would be completely isolated.

00:02:25.580 Okay, that's dreamy.

00:02:26.480 I'm ready for that.

00:02:27.260 Me, the kids living in our antique farmhouse in the woods.

00:02:31.320 Yeah, that's fine.

00:02:32.200 Okay.

00:02:32.520 Or potentially we're going to have to go set up our charter city by then.

00:02:35.640 Some remote place in the far north.

00:02:38.040 A little settlement, right?

00:02:39.740 I don't want to leave this place.

00:02:41.120 I really like it.

00:02:42.540 I know, I know.

00:02:44.040 So, today's topic is an interesting one.

00:02:47.340 Yeah.

00:02:47.520 And it has to do with when we think it is appropriate and how we will engage with our

00:02:54.140 kids and the subject of sexuality.

00:02:57.140 Indeed.

00:02:58.460 And what's really funny is I think a lot of people might see us or they see, you know,

00:03:05.120 they know that broadly, you know, we consider ourselves as very, like, culturally similar

00:03:09.220 to Ayla.

00:03:10.100 And we're friends with her.

00:03:11.440 You know, we have her on the show sometimes.

00:03:13.760 And then we'd be like, what?

00:03:14.500 So, you want to raise your kids to grow up like Ayla, right? 0.99

00:03:17.440 Like, is that your goal?

00:03:19.900 Well, not grow up like Ayla because she grew up in an extremely hardline conservative religious

00:03:23.780 household.

00:03:24.280 Well, I mean, we are an extremely hardline conservative religious household.

00:03:28.440 We just have a different view of sexuality.

00:03:30.140 We're not a sex negative, extremely hardline conservative religious household.

00:03:33.240 Yeah, that's what you meant.

00:03:34.160 So, our response would be, you know, which of us, Ayla or us, do you think grew up not

00:03:41.560 learning about sexuality?

00:03:42.680 I was exposed to sexual, like, like, information at an extremely young age.

00:03:50.820 And, and I would say it was extremely negative.

00:03:53.780 I remember because I remember, okay, so the house I was living at the time, I couldn't have

00:03:57.540 been older than seven when my mom.

00:03:59.560 I remember this conversation with my mom.

00:04:01.540 Oh, dear.

00:04:02.160 So, you're totally pre-published at this point.

00:04:04.780 And she goes, well, Malcolm, you're going to need to be very, very careful because many

00:04:10.100 young girls are going to try to get you to get them pregnant so that they can force you 1.00

00:04:15.020 to marry them and take your money. 1.00

00:04:18.600 I mean, actually, that's, if you have a family that is likely to be targeted for that.

00:04:24.720 I don't know.

00:04:55.280 It's not as, like, the pregnancy risk is not as dangerous.

00:04:57.740 She also told me, like, at a pretty young age that I needed to know how to be good at

00:05:02.420 sex.

00:05:02.840 I needed to know how to, like, that this was something that I should take the time to research

00:05:06.620 and familiarize myself with.

00:05:08.620 Like, she wasn't, like, creepy, like, I'm going to, you know, teach you about all this

00:05:12.820 stuff, which I appreciate.

00:05:14.440 But she was just like, this is something you can study and you should take the time to study

00:05:19.800 because it will matter both in terms of your social, you know, popularity and your ability

00:05:26.040 to secure a high-quality wife.

00:05:28.240 And as other people who have read other of our works know, one of the things that my mom

00:05:31.960 always, always enforcing me as a young kid is that the single most important decision

00:05:36.660 or accomplishment I would ever make is who I married.

00:05:38.940 So for her to be like, this is really important in terms of who marries you, for her to be 0.65

00:05:43.000 like, this is important in terms of who you marry, like, she's being like, this is a really

00:05:46.340 critical life tool.

00:05:47.740 And you also grew up with a lot of exposure to sexuality stuff at a young age, right?

00:05:53.220 Yeah, I mean, all my parents just left, like, porn illustrations and, like, books.

00:06:01.460 This is one of those embarrassing moments of my life at your house.

00:06:04.780 So do you remember this?

00:06:05.980 So I'm talking with her dad.

00:06:07.860 In the living room.

00:06:08.600 This is, like, in, like, a main, like, entertaining room.

00:06:10.880 And I see on the bookshelf a, like, cool-looking, like, anime thing.

00:06:15.960 Yeah, so you're like, oh, it's manga.

00:06:17.520 Cool.

00:06:18.120 And I pull it out, and it is a hentai book in her family's living room.

00:06:23.500 Pretty explicit.

00:06:24.020 Like, while I'm talking to her dad, I pull this out, and I just, like, put it back and

00:06:28.800 pretend nothing happened because I am mortified.

00:06:33.520 I think your family is the one extreme I wouldn't go to.

00:06:37.620 I mean, they pushed you into the type of woman who, you know, by the time we were married, 1.00

00:06:43.140 I was only the second guy she had ever kissed, you know, much less you definitely had never

00:06:48.480 had sex with anyone before me or anything like that.

00:06:50.640 Yeah, which is weird because, like, I mean, as you can imagine, like, if a child is knocking

00:06:55.260 about a house where a lot of the illustrated books are literally extremely explicit material,

00:07:03.900 like, you are exposed to that sometimes without, no, always without annotation, like, you know,

00:07:11.320 early because you're going to pull the thing with the pictures off the bookshelf, not the

00:07:14.220 stuff with the words.

00:07:15.160 So that was great, interesting, and move on there.

00:07:19.800 Did your parents tell you about sexuality at a young age?

00:07:22.480 So what's really interesting is the only sex talk I remember with my, with any parent was

00:07:29.440 with my mom.

00:07:30.680 I remember where I was in the house, and she was basically like, Simone, so when it comes

00:07:36.400 to sex, like, you have a, it's like a precious jewel, and you have a certain number of jewels, 0.52

00:07:44.700 and they're very precious, and you just need to be really thoughtful about who you give them

00:07:49.540 away to, and, you know, I was really generous with my jewels.

00:07:56.140 She said that?

00:07:57.480 Yeah.

00:07:58.020 I was very generous with that.

00:07:59.560 She wouldn't, she said she wouldn't, she essentially told me she wouldn't have been so generous,

00:08:04.640 like, she, she basically said, I wish I hadn't slept around as much when I was younger,

00:08:08.740 which was interesting, but.

00:08:11.780 What a valuable lesson, you know, to be in this hippie culture growing up, you know, your

00:08:16.200 mom, like, her whole shaman thing, you know, she's really into all that.

00:08:19.980 For her to tell you that, you must have been like, wow, she's really serious about this

00:08:23.860 advice.

00:08:24.540 I was indifferent to it, because, like, with you as this really bizarre exception, I'm

00:08:30.760 asexual, like, I'm not attracted to anyone except for you. 0.99

00:08:34.940 Like, and I've been having these sex dreams about you, it's so freaking weird, and it's 0.94

00:08:38.820 like, anyway, so, like, I have problems with you. 0.67

00:08:41.480 But this is only because of the pregnancy, right?

00:08:43.360 Like, the.

00:08:44.500 Who knows?

00:08:45.800 I mean, I've always been hot for you, but, like, now it's just worse.

00:08:48.880 So, yeah, probably pregnancy hormones, which, who knows?

00:08:51.380 You've also just been extra hot recently, and amazing, and perfect, and the best husband

00:08:54.980 ever.

00:08:55.300 Oh, this is sweet.

00:08:56.200 I have a yandere wife here.

00:08:59.400 No, like, genuinely, like, yeah, I hate everyone else, only have eyes for you.

00:09:04.360 But, like, so that means, though, like, my mom having that talk with me meant nothing,

00:09:09.260 because, like, I wouldn't have been interested.

00:09:13.360 I don't know, you could have achieved status.

00:09:14.420 I mean, I believe that the reason why I was so sexually active at a young age, which is

00:09:17.860 less important for a guy, is because, in terms of, like, my status on the marketplace,

00:09:22.480 is because I believed that it was important to my social standing.

00:09:25.840 Yeah, but for women, that's not the case. 1.00

00:09:28.760 I mean, and I do remember, like, there were some, actually, women in my high school who 1.00

00:09:32.900 I really respect.

00:09:34.420 Not all women. 0.96

00:09:35.160 Some women believe that they can gain social credit for this. 1.00

00:09:38.720 Some do.

00:09:39.340 And there were some women in my high school who I thought were really beautiful and way 1.00

00:09:43.780 smarter and cooler than me, who did become sexually active in high school, and then 0.82

00:09:49.200 I would hear people say things, like, describe them as cum dumpsters, and, you know, think 0.96

00:09:54.580 that that was kind of weird. 0.86

00:09:55.940 But, like, I had zero, one, I didn't think anyone would ever be attracted to me.

00:10:02.220 So, obviously, like, I wouldn't think about sex as something that I would, like...

00:10:07.440 You're so inherently humble, Simone.

00:10:09.460 It radiates from you.

00:10:10.880 I, yeah, you've also seen me in high school.

00:10:13.180 Like, I wasn't, I, I was not even close to the top 50%.

00:10:19.240 Okay.

00:10:20.580 You were less attractive than you are today when you were younger.

00:10:23.540 I'll agree with that.

00:10:24.580 But I, I think that you were still very attractive.

00:10:27.040 I, I was, like, uh, in high school, I was, like, uh, three and a half.

00:10:31.420 And maybe now I'm, like, uh, five, six.

00:10:34.520 You were nerd bait, but continue.

00:10:36.640 That's sweet.

00:10:37.500 In, in college, sorry, post-college.

00:10:39.480 In college and post-college, I was nerd bait.

00:10:40.960 In high school, it was a real story.

00:10:43.100 So, one, like, I never would have thought to use that as a social currency

00:10:46.820 because I didn't think it was the social currency I had.

00:10:49.140 Second, until I met you, I thought I was completely asexual.

00:10:52.400 So, like, I had no interest.

00:10:54.660 So, like, my mom saying that to me meant nothing.

00:10:57.240 Basically, like, no amount of sex education or lack thereof

00:11:02.020 or abstinence education would have changed my stance and policy around sexuality.

00:11:06.180 And I think this is a really important point.

00:11:08.180 I think that with many kids, they're going to do what they're going to do.

00:11:11.520 If they're the kind of person who's going to just hormonally, biologically,

00:11:15.640 have a high sex drive or grow up in a culture that makes them feel like

00:11:19.180 they are sexually attractive and, for validation, they need to have sex, 0.99

00:11:24.280 they're going to have sex. 1.00

00:11:25.500 It doesn't matter.

00:11:26.220 So, like, the only thing you can do at that point is try to encourage

00:11:29.180 safe sex and strategically productive sex.

00:11:33.680 So, I don't think that the evidence agrees with you on this.

00:11:36.700 Really?

00:11:37.300 Okay, go on.

00:11:37.660 So, this is something that I had recently looked into before this

00:11:40.140 because I wanted to do a little check.

00:11:41.140 I was like, okay, let's look into the data on this.

00:11:43.420 Generally, it seems that the more you teach young kids about sex,

00:11:47.600 the less they have sex and the later they have sex the first time. 0.80

00:11:51.300 Do you think that's because adults are tainting it with uncoolness?

00:11:54.660 That could be part of it.

00:11:56.060 Yeah, I think that's a big part of it.

00:11:57.660 And there's a whole psychological issue here that we'll get to.

00:12:00.640 But I think that you see your own experience as being more anecdotal than it really is.

00:12:06.400 And the reality is that the data is pretty robust on this.

00:12:10.980 Like, I went through a number of studies on this.

00:12:12.740 It seems it's not like sometimes the data goes one way, sometimes the data goes the other way,

00:12:17.080 which you sometimes see.

00:12:18.060 The data is profoundly, the more you teach kids about sex, the later they have sex,

00:12:23.460 and the less sex they have early in their lives.

00:12:25.540 Okay, but does teaching kids about sex include teaching kids about abstinence?

00:12:30.480 Or like teaching kids to not have sex?

00:12:31.840 Okay, so you can do abstinence-only education, which actually has a similar effect to general sex education.

00:12:39.360 Interesting.

00:12:39.880 See, I had thought as a kid growing up and like younger, that like abstinence-only education didn't work.

00:12:47.020 That's what I always heard.

00:12:48.260 Abstinence-only education doesn't work.

00:12:49.380 Well, of course, that's because that's what they wanted to tell you.

00:12:50.640 Yeah.

00:12:51.000 Like that fit the narrative.

00:12:52.240 Abstinence-only education actually does work, but it doesn't seem to work as long as general sex education.

00:12:58.620 Yeah, well, because I mean, eventually for the average person, something's got to give, right?

00:13:03.080 I mean...

00:13:03.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:03.760 So it is protective.

00:13:05.560 It is not as protective.

00:13:07.740 It's like porn and stoking, even though they really care about abstinence.

00:13:11.320 Well, yeah, well, it's more...

00:13:12.660 The studies that have looked at this long-term, like six months to a year out,

00:13:16.180 showed that you get a persistent effect from regular sex education

00:13:19.980 and a non-persistent effect from abstinence-only education.

00:13:23.620 And I think that a lot of this comes from the way that you acculturize kids to think about sexuality.

00:13:32.700 As a kid, for example, you get somebody like me, I smoked, right?

00:13:38.520 Like cigarettes, right?

00:13:40.300 Clove cigarettes, of course, because I needed to sleep with all the hot girls. 1.00

00:13:43.300 So pretentious.

00:13:44.500 And the hot girls were into clothes cigarettes. 1.00

00:13:48.020 They really were, though.

00:13:49.140 So you go and you'd sneak out behind the rock in town and hope nobody saw you.

00:13:54.500 As soon as that was legal...

00:13:56.380 The rock?

00:13:56.800 What town?

00:13:57.760 As soon as I went to college, there was a rock by the lake.

00:14:00.720 So we'd go into the woods and then...

00:14:02.300 In Hampshire.

00:14:03.160 And hook up and, you know.

00:14:04.900 But as soon as it was legal for me to do that, I immediately stopped doing it.

00:14:09.940 I never did it again in my life.

00:14:10.900 Oh, that's so funny.

00:14:13.640 No, and I'm lucky I didn't become addicted to it because I could have, right?

00:14:17.600 I'm lucky that my family...

00:14:19.140 Oh, cigarettes don't have nicotine in them?

00:14:21.060 Could that be...

00:14:22.200 Hmm.

00:14:23.280 No, they have nicotine in them.

00:14:24.420 My family just historically is not particularly susceptible to nicotine addictions.

00:14:29.460 Interesting.

00:14:29.740 Or really any addiction other than alcohol.

00:14:32.220 So...

00:14:32.900 And your family is pretty much, like, the complete bears when it comes to all evictions.

00:14:37.240 It's done everything.

00:14:38.860 So I think there was a genetic thing protecting me.

00:14:42.120 And I didn't do it that often.

00:14:43.700 I literally only did it when I wanted to go hook up with someone.

00:14:46.620 Yeah.

00:14:46.820 So it was rare, but it was something I engaged in because it was disallowed.

00:14:54.260 And this is another thing you see in the data.

00:14:57.120 But so that's why I would expect abstinence-only education to backfire.

00:15:00.380 Because you're making something forbidden.

00:15:03.600 Well, it does seem to backfire in the long run, right?

00:15:06.680 But I think the more you engage with sexuality, like, the grosser it seems, okay?

00:15:12.320 Yes.

00:15:14.780 So that is one aspect of it.

00:15:17.200 But I think there's more to it than that.

00:15:19.700 Okay.

00:15:20.040 I think that if you look at the data, another thing you'll see is...

00:15:23.920 So even in adults, if you look at regions by...

00:15:26.800 There was this great study.

00:15:27.540 I think it looked at, like, how conservatively Mormon regions were.

00:15:30.280 Okay. 0.99

00:15:30.520 This is a culture that doesn't particularly like masturbation. 0.97

00:15:33.620 And it was looking at by zip code. 0.87

00:15:36.100 And it showed that the amount of online porn consumption was correlated with how conservative

00:15:42.540 the area was.

00:15:43.500 Isn't that marvelous?

00:15:44.220 And I seem to remember a historic thing about, like, papal addresses and then sales of Girls

00:15:50.580 Gone Wild that was selling in those ad slots or something.

00:15:54.280 But generally, this is something you see over and over again.

00:15:57.020 The more a community is told to restrict access to these sorts of things, the more they're

00:16:01.260 going to engage with these sorts of things under the radar.

00:16:04.420 Yeah.

00:16:04.860 It really seems like the best panacea against over-sexual abundance. 0.81

00:16:10.940 So we will teach our kids...

00:16:13.440 Basically, the answer here is we will teach our kids pretty aggressively and early about

00:16:19.140 human sexuality.

00:16:20.500 Yeah.

00:16:20.800 But because we want them to engage in the topic with moderation, and we think that that

00:16:28.520 is the best way to achieve that outcome.

00:16:31.740 Yeah.

00:16:32.040 Well, and also that when they do it, they do it safely.

00:16:34.320 But so then...

00:16:34.760 Okay.

00:16:34.980 So, like, let's go a little further with this.

00:16:36.840 Like, I think the thing...

00:16:37.600 Not safely. 0.81

00:16:38.220 I don't think that they should go out there and have a ton of sex.

00:16:41.280 I do not think...

00:16:41.560 Yeah, but I do think that when they do, they should do it safely.

00:16:43.760 So that's part of what sex ed is all about.

00:16:46.360 You know, a lot of what these studies are looking at is when people do eventually have

00:16:49.220 sex, are they using... 0.82

00:16:49.880 Yeah, but the point I'm making is that sex ed has a secondary effect, depending on how

00:16:54.720 it's done.

00:16:55.540 Right.

00:16:55.940 And so what I'm saying is if we, like, go into this...

00:16:57.840 Outside, don't care about it.

00:16:59.580 Don't care about it.

00:17:00.300 I'm talking safe sex outside. 0.99

00:17:02.620 Obviously, you're going to have more safe sex. 0.99

00:17:03.560 I know, I know.

00:17:03.960 What I'm talking about also is the chilling effect of adults teaching you this thing.

00:17:07.240 So, for example, if you and I teach our children, like, oh, by the way, like, if and when you 0.96

00:17:13.860 want to try anal, these are, like, the processes you should go through. 0.98

00:17:17.180 Like, here's how to, like, clean out... 0.99

00:17:18.520 Make sure you use lube.

00:17:20.080 Yeah.

00:17:20.380 Like, you've got to use lube.

00:17:21.700 Like, start small.

00:17:22.780 You might want to start pegging a little bit before you go full out.

00:17:25.880 Like, you know, before you...

00:17:27.400 This is how you douche properly. 1.00

00:17:28.860 Here are the various...

00:17:29.640 And, like, they're just getting increasingly, like, just disgust...

00:17:33.060 Like, disgusted, ashen... 1.00

00:17:34.320 If your parents tell you this stuff...

00:17:36.500 Oh, yeah, no.

00:17:36.920 If you teach your children, like, how to do...

00:17:40.640 And, you know, like, you know, here are the various techniques.

00:17:43.220 Like, you know, when you go down on someone, you know, make sure you don't, you know, don't

00:17:47.860 use your teeth, you know, make sure blah, blah, blah.

00:17:50.120 And, like, you know, and for deep-throating, this is some methodology and positioning that

00:17:54.000 may indeed...

00:17:54.800 They're going to die.

00:17:57.020 I mean, but here's the thing is...

00:17:58.360 I'm thinking about this.

00:17:58.940 My mom telling me about this whenever they're...

00:18:01.760 One, whenever they hear one of their friends brag about it, right?

00:18:04.540 So they're not going to see it as high status.

00:18:06.380 They're thinking about their parents.

00:18:08.060 And two, you know, the first time they engage with it. 0.72

00:18:11.240 The way you sabotage your kids having sex is bury those memories in their head. 0.98

00:18:17.380 Yes. 0.92

00:18:18.180 Not just don't engage with it.

00:18:19.880 And I also think, keep in mind, so if a kid's going out there and they're educating themselves

00:18:23.120 about their sexuality, right?

00:18:24.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:25.200 Like, they're going on online websites.

00:18:27.460 They're like, okay, what is sex about?

00:18:28.820 What is...

00:18:29.360 Those are going to be really sex positive, I think, in a particularly toxic way, in an

00:18:38.000 uncritical way.

00:18:39.120 Like, if you go online and you look at the places where this is talked about within online

00:18:42.360 communities, they're often very uncritically sex positive.

00:18:45.740 Or I think if you look at something like our book on the subject, The Pragmentist Guide

00:18:48.620 to Sexuality.

00:18:49.220 Like, if I was in Us and I was like, how do I teach my kids realistically about sex?

00:18:54.080 Honestly, the audiobook for The Pragmentist Guide to Sexuality is probably a pretty good

00:18:58.500 place to start because it really makes it not sound cool.

00:19:02.400 It makes it overly analytical.

00:19:04.160 It goes really deep.

00:19:05.540 It unmystifies a lot of it.

00:19:07.600 With a lot of this stuff, unmystifying it is how you build protection against it.

00:19:13.400 Yeah, one of our best reviews for The Pragmentist Guide to Sexuality was something along the

00:19:17.860 lines of, I came to this book to better understand how man loves one another, you know, how we

00:19:24.420 intimately, you know, come together.

00:19:26.820 And instead, I came away disgusted by humanity.

00:19:30.080 And we're like, exactly, exactly.

00:19:32.580 That was our goal.

00:19:34.100 That was, yeah, mission accomplished.

00:19:36.180 You may have given us a two-star review, but we're keeping it because you know exactly.

00:19:39.480 It's a fire hydrant of sexual, like, eat what humans are actually doing online.

00:19:46.120 It is the collective delete my search history of humanity being poured down our kid's throat 0.56

00:19:54.620 like some sort of torture device.

00:19:56.640 You know, we're not going to say any of this in a sex negative context.

00:20:00.560 Although we're also not, like, we're not ourselves, obviously, super infatuated by sex.

00:20:08.780 You know, we're not.

00:20:09.640 Oh, that's something I don't understand at all.

00:20:11.400 The idea of calling it making love makes me, you know.

00:20:17.420 Yeah, but also, I had a high sex drive at a younger age because I grew up.

00:20:22.300 Again, this is something we talk about.

00:20:23.540 You can tell from people's facial features.

00:20:25.180 My facial features are of somebody who was overexposed to testosterone growing up.

00:20:29.640 The reason I had so much sex growing up, like, I mentioned this on other things.

00:20:33.400 I slept with a hundred different people before I started college.

00:20:36.120 The reason I had done that is because I had this overdriven sex drive.

00:20:43.720 And a lot of people are like, oh, you should as an adult now, now that you're free.

00:20:47.100 Because testosterone goes down when you have kids.

00:20:48.960 It goes down when you're in a long-term monogamous relationship.

00:20:51.580 They're like, you should want that back.

00:20:53.000 I'm like, why would I want that back?

00:20:55.040 That was not just hell in that it was something that I constantly thought about all the time.

00:21:01.800 It was Simone, right?

00:21:03.060 Like, we get receipts.

00:21:04.000 And she's like, oh, no, that could block your test. 1.00

00:21:05.820 I'm like, grab the receipt.

00:21:07.120 I'm like, Simone, I don't want you touching it because you're pregnant with our kids. 1.00

00:21:09.900 I don't care anymore.

00:21:11.800 I won the game, right?

00:21:13.940 Why?

00:21:15.180 They're like, well, don't you want to be virile?

00:21:18.640 I suspect that these people who go out there hunting for virility have never really experienced full-on male sexuality.

00:21:29.000 Well, and also just how not only logistically cumbersome it is to have a lot of sex, but also how legally, emotionally, and socially liable it makes you, right?

00:21:42.080 Well, and morally.

00:21:43.800 So, you know, I look at the first person I had sex with, you know, the first time I had sex with someone, I had gone to this camp that was for nerds.

00:21:49.940 It was, you would only get invitations if you had gotten over a certain score on the SATs.

00:21:54.740 And before this, or I think it was like an IQ test or something.

00:21:57.720 Anyway, before this, I had never really, and it was hosted at Cambridge or Oxford or something like that.

00:22:03.020 Cambridge, Cambridge.

00:22:03.540 I had never really done well with women before this moment, but I had just gotten into the period of starting to, like, try to logistically, using online environments, try to understand with, you know, if-then statements.

00:22:16.900 Like, I would use, not if-then statements, but I would use chains of text when talking to girls online to learn which chains worked and which chains didn't. 0.85

00:22:23.140 So, I'd just begun to, like, really formalize this process.

00:22:26.120 I get into this environment where I am valued for being nerdy.

00:22:29.500 You know, the first party there, I'm hooking up with two girls at the same time behind the party. 0.52

00:22:35.320 I end up choosing one of them.

00:22:37.360 And it was literally, like, basically NTR porn, Netanari or whatever.

00:22:44.820 This girl had been in a long-term relationship.

00:22:47.780 She was a very conservative Christian girl.

00:22:50.900 She was saving herself for marriage.

00:22:52.640 And she was just like, I will do any, like, I'm really, really into you.

00:22:56.460 Like, I know I've been with this guy forever, but let's just do you.

00:23:00.180 This is what I want to do.

00:23:01.560 Like, this is the path I want to take.

00:23:03.020 And at the time, like, that was really hot to me.

00:23:05.640 It's so funny.

00:23:06.280 We had this one person in the comments once being like, oh, Malcolm, you seem like you're in the cuckoldry or whatever.

00:23:13.700 Like, do you want other people to sleep with your wife? 1.00

00:23:15.560 And I was like, you've really read me wrong.

00:23:18.740 Like, I used to, and that was something I did a lot.

00:23:21.520 I slept with somebody else's prom date on prom.

00:23:24.520 You know, one of my friends.

00:23:25.380 I did these things where, as an older person, now looking back on it, it was really immoral.

00:23:33.860 And I feel very, very bad about it.

00:23:37.240 That's good. 0.99

00:23:38.160 Yeah, it's a dick move. 0.99

00:23:40.720 No, I was a dick. 1.00

00:23:42.760 I was a dick. 1.00

00:23:43.720 I was driven by my hormones at that age. 1.00

00:23:46.460 Yeah.

00:23:46.940 And I didn't have any sort of a moderating moral instruction telling me to do otherwise.

00:23:53.040 I mean, if you look at, you know, who was my moral instructor up to that point, which was my mom, right?

00:23:58.680 Yeah. 0.99

00:23:59.000 Her position was, if you can fuck people over and flex on them and show that you're better than them, then do it. 1.00

00:24:05.860 Yeah. 1.00

00:24:06.080 Then that's very much a Trumpian sort of mindset.

00:24:08.900 Totally.

00:24:09.240 Well, are we going to teach our kids, our sons especially, some form of bro code?

00:24:13.140 I mean.

00:24:13.560 Yes.

00:24:14.460 Yeah.

00:24:14.680 No.

00:24:14.980 Well, I mean, I'd say that I will tell them about my background and that I made mistakes.

00:24:20.620 That was bad.

00:24:21.520 At the time, I thought, and you can even see Trump do this.

00:24:24.340 When I say Trumpian, you know, he brags about sleeping with his friend's wives like as an adult, right?

00:24:28.980 Like long after he should have known that that was an immoral thing to do and like trying to pressure his friend's wives into sleeping with him.

00:24:35.500 That's the lack of progression there.

00:24:37.440 And for me, I view this period of when I was super sexually active as a period in which I broke a number of moral codes, which I should have known not to break.

00:24:48.060 You know, sleeping with people that were hot, but I didn't respect.

00:24:52.180 Sleeping with people that were, no, I never, like, the one thing I was stuck with is I would never hurt their feelings, right?

00:24:58.540 Right, which is meaningful.

00:25:00.120 Somebody gave their virginity to me, which happened a lot. 0.50

00:25:02.020 Like about a third of the people I slept with were virgins. 1.00

00:25:04.580 That was like the group that I did best with.

00:25:07.600 I would always try to date them from a specific period of time afterwards.

00:25:11.200 If they wanted that, I would try to, sometimes they didn't.

00:25:15.760 Sometimes they were just like, I want practice before I sleep with my boyfriend. 0.99

00:25:18.920 Which again, like just me being the fucking antagonist in NTR porn. 0.98

00:25:23.560 But that's also kind of sweet if they, you know, just didn't want to disappoint someone that they- 0.98

00:25:28.060 I understand, but I shouldn't have done it.

00:25:30.860 Yeah.

00:25:31.020 And so I think people who have never been cursed with this ultra high male sexuality, they do not understand.

00:25:38.440 It's like somebody one day injected me with like meth, got me addicted to it, and I didn't ask for this at all.

00:25:45.260 Yeah. 0.99

00:25:45.560 And now all of a sudden I'm breaking into people's houses and fucking stealing shit so I can get meth. 1.00

00:25:50.360 Right. 0.99

00:25:50.660 Like it was wrong and it was evil and I am trying to, as an adult, learn to like, like, like, not atone for it, but I don't want to go back there.

00:26:01.420 Like, I don't want to be like, oh yes, introduce that challenge to me again.

00:26:04.960 Yeah, although one way to atone for it, of course, is to raise kids to do better.

00:26:09.160 So that is a hope that we have for our kids then.

00:26:12.120 I think another thing that I think about a lot is when it comes to corn, aka online ironic material consumption, I do think that it creates a certain lack of understanding of like how these dynamics work.

00:26:32.860 And I'm, I'm not even talking about like what people are willing to do.

00:26:37.120 I'm talking about what people expect from partners as a default.

00:26:41.180 And I think one of the biggest things that I see in terms of people, like problems that people have with sex throughout their lifetimes that we see people post about online a lot is that partners don't feel sufficiently desired.

00:26:52.900 And it really, it has nothing to do with like, I don't care if like they're doing wacky stuff in bed or if they have like zero sex lives, a lot of it comes down to like how desired a partner feels.

00:27:02.960 And if there's one through line through every single like fetish you'll see in erotic material, like the thing that people almost universally, and of course there are some fetish based like differences here, but like it's almost always based around the person being very into banging you, like the concept there, like enthusiastic interest.

00:27:26.520 And I think a big problem that, that both men and women have, especially after being exposed to any form of erotic material, and this is, you know, romance novels for young women or like, you know, manga or like, you know, typical standard, very visual erotic material for men is they just kind of assume that without putting any effort, you're going to end up with a partner who's showing like insane levels of enthusiasm for you.

00:27:51.680 And like that, unfortunately that's actually either something that like, unless you're like some kind of Adonis or you're like really rich or famous, which is kind of hard to do, especially when you're just a kid, you have to put a lot of work into getting that kind of interest.

00:28:06.280 And I, I don't know how I'm going to approach this with our kids yet, but it is something I want to talk about with you because I, I want kids to understand that like, no, a woman or man is not going to be like insane, like, you know, like cannot control themselves around you.

00:28:22.020 I, I, no, I've had that with some girls. 1.00

00:28:25.120 Well, but you're you, I mean.

00:28:26.880 No, I understand, but, but some people, I assume, I mean, I don't want to say it's an act, but like they know to lean into it.

00:28:32.980 Like, I, I think that the better thing to focus on with kids is I think a big problem in our society, basically sex, non-reproductive sex from the perspective of our culture and the way we're teaching our kids is no different from pornography.

00:28:47.740 Yeah, agree.

00:28:48.600 No different from pornography.

00:28:49.740 It is no additional social standing.

00:28:51.520 Well, I would say it's, it's probably a little worse because you're more likely to put yourself at physical, logistical, legal, moral risk.

00:28:58.120 No, it's just pornography with extra steps.

00:29:00.700 Yeah.

00:29:02.260 It's pornography with extra steps and risks.

00:29:04.920 So insofar as it feels better to you than pornography, then engage in it.

00:29:10.060 But if it doesn't feel better to you than that, then don't engage in it.

00:29:14.480 Yeah.

00:29:14.780 Or don't waste a ton of time seeking it out.

00:29:17.540 And I think the, one of the core problems in the way our society frames this is it puts, you know, corn in one category, actual sex in one category, and then like reproductive sex in another category.

00:29:28.140 And then there's conservative religious groups, which sometimes are like corn and actual sex should go in the same group.

00:29:34.600 But that whole group is off limits. 0.99

00:29:38.320 Whereas we say, no, because they're in the same category, just engage with porn. 0.97

00:29:43.880 Don't engage with actual sex unless it is moving you towards reproductive sex. 0.99

00:29:48.420 And even in that case, reproductive sex is largely immoral from our perspective if you can engage in polygenic screening.

00:29:56.760 And so, you know, don't overindulge in that either, you know.

00:30:00.600 So what this means is I think when you frame things that way, when you're like, look, what you are doing when you are having sex with someone else for pleasure is you're basically using another human being like a flashlight.

00:30:12.520 Like, why? Like, you functionally are getting nothing additional out of it other than any hormones that force some sort of a bonding to you.

00:30:22.680 And insofar as it's creating hormones that force a bonding to you, then you're using it as a tool to brainwash the other individual, which, okay, yes, learn to use that tool well, but recognize what you're doing.

00:30:34.500 And that that is the purpose of sex in those circumstances is not your personal gratification.

00:30:40.480 A lady or gentleman with a weaker imagination may just have difficulty getting the same enjoyment from not exactly the real thing.

00:30:51.460 Well, I mean, I think that that framing for our kids will work in terms of leading them to understand that sex is a tool that can move them towards their goals.

00:31:02.820 But it is a tool that it goals the big one that sex helps with is getting someone to marry you, but the and then have kids. 1.00

00:31:10.680 Wait, wait. So you think you're more likely to marry someone if you've already had sex as a guy?

00:31:17.260 Yeah, as a guy. Yeah, I guess because what you can be sure that you're not sexually incompatible because that's kind of scary.

00:31:23.160 No, like I had a, I mean, the way that I, you know, you can get women basically indebted to you, like get them to have a, a supernatural is the wrong word, but I mean, it's, oh, so you're, you're talking about like oxytocin and like hormonal bonding.

00:31:41.160 Okay. Utilize that to achieve bonds with people that then you can then utilize to exploit whatever you want to say to better achieve your long-term goals.

00:31:50.660 Okay.

00:31:51.220 Insofar as you don't hurt them and keep in mind, you know, if there's somebody who's out there going to be having sex anyway, like, how did you ruin all these women?

00:31:59.360 After, after the first few, I was like, okay, no, I'm only going to go for the type of girl who I know would otherwise go out there and have sex with people.

00:32:05.480 So, so yeah, that's how we're going to engage with sexuality with our kids.

00:32:09.720 So I think the question is, what outcome are you aiming for?

00:32:12.700 Are you aiming for Ayla?

00:32:14.140 Which, who I think, you know, we love Ayla, really smart person. 1.00

00:32:17.240 I, I think that the strategy that she has chosen, she's really pioneered it.

00:32:21.660 And I think it's shown that even if you are the best at the world at what she does, it's still hard to achieve, find a husband if you take that path.

00:32:29.480 And so I wouldn't recommend it for our kids.

00:32:31.420 So do you want to take that path or do you want to take our path?

00:32:34.300 Our path is extreme and total sexual education, allowing your kids to be exposed to sexual information at a young age, normalize it and treat it as something that you as a parent are engaging them on.

00:32:46.940 Or do you extremely restrict sexual content, tell them to restrict masturbation and don't engage them with pornography?

00:32:55.000 Is that the path you want to take?

00:32:56.600 Right.

00:32:56.860 So that we're, we're essentially saying traumatic exposure versus sheltering.

00:33:02.000 Well, not traumatic exposure, normalization.

00:33:06.120 I think if my parents, no, I guess if my parents told me like the logistics of anal, for example, I wouldn't be traumatized, but. 0.98

00:33:14.560 You'd never have anal. 0.99

00:33:17.640 I never would anyway. 0.99

00:33:18.920 Like, I guess I should like give a better description of like something I'd be into, like shibari.

00:33:24.900 No.

00:33:25.280 Yeah.

00:33:25.420 Then I would be much less likely to do it.

00:33:27.280 Yeah.

00:33:27.600 It's true.

00:33:28.360 Even if it's something I'm kind of inclined.

00:33:30.500 Sorry.

00:33:31.120 That's the not tying thing.

00:33:33.020 Uh-huh.

00:33:33.480 Yeah.

00:33:34.420 I'm, I'm in, I'm a, I'm a swaddler.

00:33:36.020 Um, yeah.

00:33:40.080 She, she, she, she likes being restrained is what she's saying.

00:33:43.060 It's very, well, I mean, it makes sense.

00:33:44.640 I think like, I would imagine that the proportion of autistic people who like, if they were asked

00:33:50.240 to choose sexual fetishes that like were the sexual equivalent of a weighted blanket.

00:33:55.520 They would. 0.99

00:33:57.120 You are such a goof Simone and I absolutely love you. 0.95

00:34:01.280 But no, yeah, you're right. 0.53

00:34:02.160 If my parents had been like, learn about this, I would be like, maybe I will never do that.

00:34:09.380 Okay.

00:34:09.620 Let's do this to our children.

00:34:11.000 We're so terrible.

00:34:16.720 It's going to be good. 0.97

00:34:18.240 This is a forward on the private disguise of sexuality says that we have ruined sex for

00:34:21.700 our children for life.

00:34:22.680 That's why we dedicate the book to them because at least they have that.

00:34:27.100 Yeah.

00:34:27.600 All right.

00:34:27.980 Love you too, mom.

00:34:29.540 Love you too.

00:34:31.280 Love you too.

00:34:31.760 Love you too.

00:34:34.660 Love you too.

Based Camp - January 02, 2024

How and When is Sex Ed Appropriate？

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