How Child Support Laws Could Cause Human Speciation
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Summary
In this episode, Simone and I discuss the concept of speciation, which is the evolution of a new ecological niche or ecological niche, and the process of spreading beneficial mutations within populations to create new ecological niches.
Transcript
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i almost feel like there's been speciation culturally like even within generations so
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there's not like a genetic incompatibility but we've reached a point at which like some groups
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are now so culturally and like worldview incompatible that they're almost like different
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species like each of them will view the other like an animal that they cannot comprehend and
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they cannot possibly have a soul because they're so different and they don't make any sense and
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they cannot empathize with them and they will not see them as human and that really scares me because
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when you get that level of a lack of ability to empathize or relate to other groups that's when
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you start seeing atrocities that's when you start seeing violence and i i very much worry about it
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would you like to know more hello simone hello gorgeous okay so remember that day where you
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gave me this tweet to edit and i edited it and i had no idea what you're talking about and then i i i
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tweeted it and then subsequently deleted it because you're like you completely ruined my point and i
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didn't understand your point at all because your point and i find this very intriguing is that child
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support could cause human speciation walk me through this malcolm okay so in not child care which she
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changed it to which is a nonsensical statement child care could not none of this made sense to me
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so help help so this involves understanding how speciation happens in animals and how humans
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bred in a historical context so first let's talk about speciation in animals there are two core types
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of speciation you could either have something called geographic isolation or something called behavioral
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isolation geographic isolation happens when something like you have a population of deer and then a
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stream starts to form between them and then the stream gets bigger and bigger and bigger and
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eventually becomes a river or like two continents drift apart or something like that or an animal
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gets stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere what you're having in all of these instances is two
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populations of the same species have become genetically isolated from each other so mutations that are
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happening in one part of the species are no longer drifting to the other part of the species okay so
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typically if you have a population of animals and they're all interbreeding with each other
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any beneficial mutation is going to increase within the species as a whole right you know it will begin
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to spread throughout all members of the species and then in in you know help the species as a whole but if
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it's isolated with two populations you might have some beneficial mutations spreading within this group
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and other beneficial mutations spreading within this group and now these two groups end up having sort of
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a new optimal state in which different types of beneficial mutations are benefiting each group because they are
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utilizing different ecological niches or utilizing different strategies to take advantage of their ecological niche
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now this is a form of speciation that most people are familiar with if you're studying evolution at like a
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child's level like this is how it's often explained but then you also have behavioral isolation which is
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maybe even more common as a form of speciation behavioral isolation happens when one of the mutations
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ends up isolating the portion of the population that has it from the rest of the population at a
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breeding level so let me give an example here that's very easy to understand suppose you have a nocturnal
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species and then some behavioral trait like mutation causes a portion of that species to become only
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active during the day okay these two populations can be living in the same area but they're no longer
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interbreeding yeah completely genetically isolated from each other and this this happens more common
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where we're actually or like you have a change that causes a change in what some of the females look like
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in a species but it turns out that some of the males in that species still like this and some of the
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males don't still like this i mean so then you have sort of sexual behavioral isolation right
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what behavioral isolation looks like or it might be instead of nocturnal versus day it might be that
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it's a species of turtles right then the species of turtles would always go to this one little island
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or place to breed and have sex right and lay eggs but then this other faction within the turtles is
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okay with having eggs anywhere then you have isolation of those two groups right
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where they have slightly different navigational prospects coded into them due to a mutation and
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that causes them to breed on a different beach now you have behavioral isolation which is also sort
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of geographic isolation and an interesting way because they're not actually geographically isolated
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so what behavioral isolation looks like classically within a population cluster is you have some
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genetically linked trait and then you have a sort of u-curve on a graph so what that means is for
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individuals who have a lot of the trait on this side they're having a lot of kids for individuals
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have a middling amount of this genetically linked trait they have very few kids for people on the
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other side they have a lot of kids that is what behavioral isolation looks like that is the graph we
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see with iq or well not iq but earning potential at least wealth with wealth yeah wealth and fertility
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wealth has a high correlation with things like iq things like educational attainment things like all
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sorts of genetically linked traits and interestingly it doesn't just go to that it goes to the other
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genetically linked traits so you see this in things like weight for example the people who have the
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most kids aren't just the least wealthy kids they're also the most obese kid the people and this is
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obesity not just at like the accidental obesity level but at the polygenic risk score so at the
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my genetics obesity level the polygenic risk scores that us track with obesity now keep in mind this is
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not due to some sort of difference in metabolic rate humans even within like two standard deviations
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of the standard metabolic rate only really differ by like 200 calories a day this is due to self-control
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reasons well yeah or when exposed to highly processed food people with a certain collection of genes
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appear to have less ability to not overindulge right yeah and i i say this is somebody who believes that
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i have a genetic predilection for a specific susceptibility to types of alcohol addiction
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um so i am not saying that like i am above this but this is a different type of addictive
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process which is not correlated with wealth which is an interesting thing like if you look at most of the
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most impactful people in human history they drank a ton like a ton like a ton more than normal people
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whether it's alexander the great or kubla khan or churchill churchill it's just something you see
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yeah a lot of these people i don't know if it's something to do with the deficiency in this pathway
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gives one an advantage within certain types of leadership roles or if it's that the pathway is has
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some sort of genetic okay so hold on i'll explain something that can happen with gene sometimes
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sometimes a beneficial gene is like right next to a bad gene on on like the way that the human genome
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is coded and so it means that most mutations that are selecting for the beneficial gene also select for
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the bad gene it wouldn't be surprising to me if alcoholism propensity is somewhere on that was in the
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genetic strand or it could be that it's literally the same gene like it's literally the same part of the
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neurochemical pathway that leads to these advantages that cause an alexander the great or a kubla khan
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sorry i had meant to say ogadi khan here actually funny story his counselors became so worried about his
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copious they made a rule for him that he could only drink one glass of wine a day and so he had a giant
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chalice fashioned that could hold multiple gallons of wine and rebellion to this rule or winston
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churchill a lot of people don't seem to realize how much winston churchill drank so for example if
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we're just talking about champagne winston churchill consumed 42 000 bottles of paul roger champagne from
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1908 to 1962 never switching to another brand that breaks down to around two to three bottles per day
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on average there's reports of him during the war period for example having six scotches before dinner
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on top of other beverages he would often he'd wake up with a paul roger champagne for breakfast
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then another pint at lunch and then a 10 ounce a series of 10 ounce glasses of scotch and whiskey for
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dinner and several more glasses of whiskey as nightcaps so i i think we did the math on this in
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one of our books because we got like a thing and he drank the equivalent of i think it was like
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four and a half bottles of hard liquor a day uh so a lot a lot are causing but that's a completely
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different thing we're going to get to this is not correlated with obesity obesity is not correlated
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with outside leadership or economic success is actually inversely correlated with it but actually
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what you're seeing here within the the the human genome is two strategies for reproduction that are
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both successful in our current socioeconomic environment now the problem is is that the high
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wealth strategy you need to be extremely wealthy you only get above repopulation rate again at least
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within the u.s if your family is earning over half a million a year but as you go up from there
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your fertility rate just gets higher and higher and higher now my suspicion has been this dual
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optimization around fertility strategies might have been the case for a long time in human history
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but it wasn't relevant and this is where child support comes in we're getting to it my so anyone who's
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familiar one of my favorite sort of sex books for learning about the history of sexuality is my
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secret life and it was written by a victorian noble about his sex capades going around they might have
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been pre-victorian but it was it was early you know i think it was victorian and he and this was in
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across different cultures can different continents the man covered a lot of ground in many and he'd talk
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about how he would sleep with peasant girls and where how peasant girls were different from sleeping
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with noble girls and how you could convince a girl you met like farming in a field to sleep with you
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it had like a full strategy for like every it was like oh innkeeper's daughters this is how you seduce
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innkeeper's daughters this is what innkeeper's daughters are like in bed but this man was clearly
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in this you know upper class community right and i should point out when i'm talking about like
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upper class communities they are remarkably persistent intergenerationally even when the odds are really
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against it one of the most shocking studies that i had ever seen was looking at in china so people who
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don't know how thorough the chinese revolution was it created a societal inversion read the red scarf
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girls really great book at showing how bad it was for people there if you're interested in this
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but in china when they went through the cultural revolution the amount of wealth a family had had
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before that and the amount of social and political power the family had had was inversely correlated to
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their new status whereas farmers were the highest status individuals and the former wealthy were abused and
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really just like it was horrifying the lifestyle they had to go through they had nothing and they now
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became basically the untouchable cast of society what is shocking is that if you look at the ccp today
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um after a few generations of this it was something like 85 percent of the leadership cast of the ccp
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comes from families that were previously in the this untouchable intellectual class slash successful
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wealthy dynastic uh you know from the dynasty period of china i think similar findings resulted
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from looking at like post-soviet social composition as well so in in a couple of different cases it has
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been found that families that had a lot of wealth and or power or influence and then had that removed
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then within a few generations after the exogenous corrective mechanism was removed found themselves once
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again in positions of wealth and power and again we're just like citing like objective research here like
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you can go out you can find this research like this is not like these days can you find this research
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not if you ask chat gpt not if you google it i mean well i think you can google it these days still i
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don't think they scrub the internet of this but i'll see when i'm doing the the episode because i often
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try to post like pictures of it and maybe it's all gone now i think i still have the links i we can try
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to add these to the show notes because i i really don't know if people are going to be able to find it
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otherwise so what you had historically is you have these two different reproductive strategies but they
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weren't completely behaviorally isolated and the reason they weren't behaviorally isolated
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is because women are often unfaithful to their husbands as you know you know we've talked about
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then this study is inflated because it was looking at what guys who thought their wives had cheated on
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them but when we go to something like a third of of kids when the husband wasn't sure actually turned
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out to be from another guy i think population overall it's something like three percent or five percent or
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something like that really quite low that's not low from a genetic standpoint from a genetic
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stretch standpoint that's not low you cannot have a behavioral isolation if you have five percent of
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the time guys who think that they're in one group are actually raising the kids of people in the
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quote-unquote rich group or upper class or whatever strategy so you have two strategies here one is a
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strategy that is primarily focused on getting people to breed either because they couldn't figure out
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contraception they couldn't prevent somebody from sleeping with them or they lacked the self-control
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to not have sex when they didn't want to have kids and the other group is a group that is having lots of
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kids because they have lots of resources and and there are obviously these two groups have almost
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nothing in common in terms of what makes you successful within both of these strategies from a genetic
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selection standpoint well child support which is a very interesting phenomenon because it is almost
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universally implemented it is implemented literally like if there were a few or not a few but a good
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chunk of countries that didn't do it like a third of the world that didn't like really egregiously and
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effectively do child support where a large portion of this wealthy strategy were living it wouldn't be
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effective because you'd still have the genetic drift between the two populations but it is really an all
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encompassing thing and it is extremely punishing to anyone who was in the high wealth generation group
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who ends up dallinging from people within their group they they suffer extreme penalties both to
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their ability to secure partners within that group and their quality of life and they're often not going to
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have that many more than like one child outside of that group now this causes problems when i first
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mentioned this you're like well what about basketball players yeah like they're the classic example of
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like you know wealthy people who are then obligated to pay child support who still end up seeming to do
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it a lot yeah well i i would argue in this case that they're almost sort of the exception that proves the
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rule limit you know sports stars are one not normally genetically optimized for this group um whereas this group
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is typically optimized for industry right whereas sports stars have a an elite an elite in so far as
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like their their genes it's their physical prowess that gets wealth and influence not their minds that's
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what you're saying it's a different optimization function and it's an optimization function that can
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arise i think at equal rates in both of the behavioral groups it can arise both accidentally was in the group
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that is focused on the the the lower income group and the higher income group and so yeah this is a pass
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for genetic transfer between the two groups but it's not a robust pass for genetic transfer between the
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two groups because it's such a relatively rare and odd phenomenon and the sports stars that succumb to it
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are typically those who came out of the lower income group by that what i mean is they're often those who
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lack a level of self-control when you enter like a lot of sports these days like nba and stuff like
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that they warn you like there's courses about how women will like invert condoms that you use how women
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will try to trick you to get pregnant how women would it's a really i mean it's such a prodigious
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problem that it's something that they put a lot of effort into training people to avoid yeah so people who
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don't avoid it are i don't want to say like intentionally not avoiding it but they either
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they were warned they were given fair warning you're saying self-control or the the future
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planning abilities or they just don't care which is a problem but but it also means that you're also
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then not dealing with because remember i said that people can enter this group of elite physical
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specimens from either of the two communities but but the only communities that are really getting
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tricked by this are the ones that enter it from the lower income community because the the other
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cluster of genetic traits like low impulse control and stuff like that that's clustering was in that
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community as a successful reproductive strategy and i should be clear around all of this i have
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no animosity towards either of these groups i'm just pointing out a phenomenon these things are
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genetically linked and these are two stable successful genetic strategies and i think that in in many ways
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both of them can add to the betterment of our species but it is worth calling out that we are in and this
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isn't a good group in a bad group like this is i want to be clear about that however one group is more
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likely to be economically successful because that is the core thing that's differentiating them and that
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is and also i should note that this isn't particularly ethnically clustered ethnicities exist uh no it seems to show up
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across nations yeah but then are you implying that like the child support is on a broad societal level
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something that you could say worsens class divides and income gaps because when you didn't have that
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you would have like very very high agency very high intelligence high grit high hustle people
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occasionally inserting genetic copies partial genetic copies of themselves into economic opportunity parts of the
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population thereby giving those groups like an in to higher resources like is it yeah yeah well it was
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it was preventing a level of genetic isolation and and i i should note and and to be realistic here
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there are cultural differences between different ethnic communities that can lead to them being
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more susceptible to certain practices so for example if you take the black community right like there is
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definitely a lot of our black friends are like really educated really smart and they are not going to go out
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sleeping with random women regardless of their ethnicity because they understand the cost of that to
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them but they lack one avenue that our white friends have due to cultural pressures which is that the black
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successful women we know that can't find a partner but still want to have kids white women will often
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just you know use their gay friend sperm or something like that and then have kids and care for them as a
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single mother whereas the stigma against black single mothers among black successful communities
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is so strong that many of our black female friends who are
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genetically like strongly in this like super successful super competent community are choosing
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not to have kids and so i think that it's also important to think about the social pressures that you create
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as a community and it's also something that i would encourage you know to our black successful female
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audience i understand the stigma that's that that's that's facing you but you are doing a
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disservice to your community by not having kids and i would encourage you to go out and do
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that because i know there's a lot of you because we know a number of our black female friends who
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really want to have kids but they just can't find a guy that is of their level and and and to be clear
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this is also like a a huge problem if the community is is is monitoring status in different ways
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whereas you know ultra competent individuals may if they're male may see different avenues than the
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classic educational avenue that makes them look like good partners for these women um so maybe expand
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your boundaries of what you think is acceptable yeah um not just by employer and university and income
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level yeah well another thing i also noticed within this community is they're more height sensitive
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than our white friends oh boy yeah which i feel like all women are way too height sensitive but yeah
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yeah yeah all women are way too height sensitive but i would say that height sensitivity and partner
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selection differs between cultures and cultures differ between ethnic groups and i are there any wait are
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there any cultural groups with a female population that is cool with dating men shorter than them i mean
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i will admit that like in modern society women are insane it's not like please at least match my height
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or be a little bit taller but instead just be insanely tall no matter how short i am but
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i have not noticed as much pickiness around it in hispanic and east asian populations
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it's not that they have no care for it at all they care like like all humans do but they are not as
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hard lying about it as but could that be because there are more likely to be income disparities between men
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and women because the one thing that clearly makes height a no non-issue is a lot of wealth yeah actually i think
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that that is what probably makes it the communities where you see height mattering the most for women
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actually that's a really interesting phenomenon it's the communities where there is more income
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equality between men and women because within both the black and the white communities there's no longer
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income disparities that can make up for the shortness yeah yeah yeah they're much more likely to have
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income inequality between genders and that's probably what explains the phenomenon
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very clever simone i'm not taking credit for that well and there's even more equality within the elite
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black communities i i noticed that like elite black women tend to slightly out earn elite black men
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yeah at least in our anecdotal experience yeah this phenomenon yeah yeah okay i think that's also
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because and this is like a weird institutional bug that may not last forever the elite black men that we
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know are far more likely to themselves be entrepreneurs or pursuing very risky investment
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political non-profit whatever ventures right like they're not they're not doing the thing that's going
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to earn a lot of money and then the very successful black women that we know are far more likely
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to be employed by a large corporation that is going to give them disproportionate value because not only are
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they incredibly high caliber and smart but they also thank god are not a white male because they
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desperately need to not hire white males anymore you know what i mean so they're going to be paid
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a part of the damage the genetic damage that affirmative action is causing to the american
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black community and that if you are an ultra competent ambitious black person you are much better off
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going into bureaucratic roles than you are going into entrepreneurial roles because you have an
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advantage within those roles due to affirmative action well and the affirmative action is also very
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annoying because to a great extent these roles that are being offered i i don't see a whole
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lot of opportunity and this is a complaint we constantly hear from these same high caliber
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women that like they have been they've been welcomed into these institutions they are being paid
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extremely generously and no one is listening to them oh yeah no no it's really interesting that
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happens to people is this is weird little honey trap where they get up to a level within these
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corporations you know whether it's you know google or cisco or whatever right where they now are
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extremely powerful extremely well paid by society but not extremely powerful they're they're making
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a lot of money and they're in a very prestigious high status but they cannot leave the job to do an
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entrepreneurial pursuit because you know it would be such a cost to them given everything that they've
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been afforded from this bureaucracy opportunity cost financially is too high yeah but they actually
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have a floor preventing them from entering real leadership roles they can enter token leadership roles but not
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real leadership roles because talk about a trap like that is so damaging like not so the only thing
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that affirmative action is giving to some people in some cases and it's typically people who already
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come from somewhat privileged backgrounds but happen to be the right yeah checkbox they're giving
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some opportunities but they're not giving them power they're not giving them influence they're not
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giving them satisfaction and they're not giving them high fertility culture so this is really bad
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this is like a sticky mousetrap for for these communities it's it's it's horrifying and erasing
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their best and brightest what on earth i i yeah i find it genuinely repulsive because these communities
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produce some really interesting orthogonal thinkers who don't think like the communities that are often
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most likely to go into you know entrepreneurship and stuff like that because it's it through orthogonal
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thought that you can now compete with an entrepreneurship which is one of the reasons why
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fourth generation immigrants do so well but i i wanted to end this particular topic with a shout
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out for something one of our listeners is doing because one of our listeners reached out to us and we
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always try to promote when they're working on something that's like aligned with our work
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so this organization is if you wanted to report so i think that it was started with the motivation of like
00:26:05.580
really unfair things happening within family courts and stuff like that but but to quote him you know if you
00:26:11.240
want to report a woke teacher or school board member this is your opportunity to shine and every time
00:26:17.160
somebody googles their name they will live in infamy no more denials this will be our chance to shine
00:26:22.420
and and other people can give reviews to these individuals so basically once somebody does something
00:26:30.060
really egregious from like a woke perspective there isn't a good mechanism to snap back against them
00:26:37.500
right now was in the bureaucracy right there is no counterpoint to this there is no real punishment
00:26:44.040
for going overboard in terms of cultural imperialism which is what we see on the left right now the
00:26:51.680
belief that their culture is naturally superior to all other cultures and that everyone else is
00:26:56.840
basically just savages in their wake and must have their cultures erased and that they are only uplifting
00:27:03.320
the children by taking them from their families because that is always a great thing to think that
00:27:08.380
always makes you look good in the eyes of history but the name of his website if you want to check
00:27:12.820
this out and again i haven't really vetted this project that much but it sounded reasonable to me
00:27:17.180
okay is familylawaccountability.com and i'll put that on the screen here and i think that that's a
00:27:26.040
cool project and i wanted to talk about it was in this episode because i figured a lot of people who are
00:27:29.300
having trouble with child support systems and unfair courts and stuff like that might click
00:27:33.380
on an episode titled something around child support interesting cool thanks for sharing that i hadn't heard
00:27:40.780
of that yet yeah well it's a good project like i'm genuinely i'm like yeah that's that's pretty cool
00:27:47.460
you know he's not out here asking us to promote him or something fair let's be anyway i love you
00:27:55.040
and i'm so i found this episode pretty entertaining yeah i'm glad you explained this to me in greater
00:28:00.020
detail because i was obviously so confused when you first explained this to me because sometimes
00:28:04.360
thinking is really hard do you think that it could that it's actually a phenomenon that we're seeing
00:28:10.700
that didn't exist historically or do you think i'm i think that you can see levels of of even human
00:28:16.320
speciation historically not not in terms of like oh they can't interbreed anymore but like
00:28:20.800
to a certain extent i almost feel like there's been speciation culturally like even within
00:28:26.260
generations so there's not like a genetic incompatibility but we've reached a point at
00:28:30.560
which like some groups are now so culturally and like world view incompatible that they're almost
00:28:40.960
like different species like each of them will view the other like an animal that they cannot
00:28:45.240
comprehend and they cannot possibly have a soul because they're so different and they don't make
00:28:50.200
any sense and they cannot empathize with them and they will not see them as human and that really
00:28:54.440
scares me because when you get that level of a lack of ability to empathize or relate to other groups
00:29:01.320
that's when you start seeing atrocities that's when you start seeing violence and i i very much worry
00:29:06.780
about it so yeah i mean this is an important thing to think about and to keep an eye out for and
00:29:10.580
it's great to know some mechanisms that might make it worse yay i love you to death Simone and i'm
00:29:17.020
so fortunate that i don't need to worry about child support with you
00:29:20.240
yeah i think we're gonna be okay oh goodness all right bye