How to Start a Company with Dimitry Toukhcher
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Misogyny
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Hate speech
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Summary
In this episode, Dimitri talks about how he went from being an encyclopedia salesman to building a quite large company. Dimitri is the CEO of LGMG, a company that makes Jordan Peterson suits, if you're familiar with those sort of wacky suits.
Transcript
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I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally.
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I ended up with six sales because on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the
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elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom, and they bought some stuff as well.
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So I put up about $40,000 worth of orders my first week.
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Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine.
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Hello, this is Malcolm Collins here with Dimitri.
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I actually met you when we were recording for Just Pearly Things.
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Oh, no, before that at the art conference, he runs LGMG, which is the company that makes
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things like Jordan Peterson suits, if you're familiar with those sort of wacky suits.
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But they also make, you know, more conservative outfits as well.
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And what I wanted to do with this episode, because we've had some episodes on how to
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like make money or start companies, which our listeners seem to really like.
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And you went from, my understanding, being an encyclopedia salesman to building this quite
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I'd love it if you could walk through the process of that.
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So every company is a little bit different, right?
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Like when people say, like, what does the CEO do?
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There's not one sort of formula that everybody follows.
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You know, in our case, we're a direct sales company.
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So, you know, when I was in university and our company is LGFG, it's like, it just stands
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So when I was in university, I just, I needed a way to make some money.
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And I guess, you know, not everybody, not everybody responds the same to authority.
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Like in my case, coming from the USSR, like authority wasn't sexy to me.
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And so going into a very large company, like I did a co-op term for the government of Canada,
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working in public works and government services.
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It was just so slow and everybody was so mediocre and slovenly and, and just, you know, lazy.
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I want to hear more about working in the government to start, because I started my career working
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Now it was a startup, but it was dramatically more efficient than when I worked in like even
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I've heard like government, government work is even worse.
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They may be anecdotal, but these are my experiences.
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So I was supposed to design like an online intranet portal where government workers from
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So this, this government department built like roads and bridges and things like that.
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And we had to compare like the budget that was set for us for the year versus the budget
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And we needed to be able to query it very quickly.
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And so about two months in, I finished all the SQL stuff and we launched the thing and
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we started searching like month by month and we could see that we were for the year dramatically
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And then my, my, my supervisor who was like the department head, she was like, Hey, I
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see that we're like $200,000 under budget for the year.
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She's like, my God, we're going to have to get the best pizza party ever.
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She literally said we need to spend $200,000 so that we get the same budget next year.
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Like I'm not at this point, I'm like 22, but I understand you're just throwing taxpayer
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She's like, yeah, but like, they'll give us a lower budget.
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I'm like, can you imagine if you're a CEO of a company and it's your money and your company's
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money and your employee spends $200,000 on pizza in a month?
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It was wild as some larger companies begin to develop policies like this.
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Like if they get so large and bureaucratic and regulated, like you're talking like the
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It's one of the things that my wife, she's running, she'll be running for office in this
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She wants to replace a large portion of local government with AI to like use AI crawlers
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to detect this type of behavior in budget systems.
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But like, I completely agree with what you're talking about.
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That's horrifying, but it's a good place to start because we're starting with like the
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So, so, so kind of concurrently in my summertime, I got recruited to sell encyclopedias door
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to door, which was a completely opposite experience.
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So now instead of, you know, being in an office with many, many people, lots of bureaucracy,
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things move slowly and nothing really seems to happen ever.
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I'm outside by myself knocking on doors and I either, you know, get chased off a porch or
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if I do my, you know, if I execute at a high level, I'll get a check right there then on
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the spot because it's like, you know, you knock, you show, you sell, you take a check,
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And obviously the results come very, very quickly in direct sales because, you know,
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right away if you're, if you're moving forward or you're not.
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And so that experience, I did that for, I ended up doing that for six years.
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I actually bought my first home in Vancouver and I was a third year student at UBC because
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So I learned, I learned a skill that was very, very useful, which is the skill to be able
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And by the way, leave that person quite happy at that transaction because, you know, they
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have a long cancellation policy in Canada and I didn't seem to have a lot of cancellation.
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And, and so when I finished my university degrees, I was like, okay, I have this.
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Before we go further, I want to, I want to stick on this point for a bit.
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But encyclopedias, I feel like our younger listeners may not know what those are.
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So, I mean, this was a, this was a condensed encyclopedia, but there are books that basically
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Our case, what we were selling were more like study guides for school, like to help with,
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you know, math, homework, writing essays, just a reference guide for people.
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And even at the time Wikipedia existed, I'm not that old and the internet existed.
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It was just, you know, there's other things that people benefit.
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And so, so something I wanted to touch on here, cause I thought this was very interesting.
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It came to a statistics I heard recently is I've always said, so one, just in terms of
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direct sales for our listeners, we have another episode on how to get rich, where we do discuss
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direct sales as a mechanism, because it is a fairly reliable mechanism.
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Just make sure you don't confuse direct sales with MLMs, but they're, they're very distinct.
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And I would also say that a really interesting thing is you might have an arbitrage opportunity
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if you're out there doing direct sales today, because when I was younger, I had to learn
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I had to learn to go up to random women and get them interested in me.
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But I would do this, you know, at malls, I'd randomly walk up to people over and over
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Well, I saw a statistic recently that said of Gen Z, only 10% of men have ever approached
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a woman, which means that you're getting a whole generation of people who just have never
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built up the, I would say the cognitive fortitude that's needed to do stuff like knocking on
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So you're going to have a huge arbitrage opportunity.
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People will have not run into a direct salesperson in years.
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I literally, listen, I teach this to my company all the time.
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Cold calling works better now than it's ever worked.
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It works better because when you're good, they've like, literally people have never
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They just have this idea of like some cheesy salesman being like this douche, whatever.
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That's like, no man, great salespeople that bring revenue to the company.
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They're the highest paid people in the world because it's so hard to get revenue.
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And by the way, you know, that thing you said about like approaching girls with them.
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I mean, I did the same thing and I, and I actually did it with a group of guys that
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taught it and I signed up for their seminar and I was already like 22 or 23 because I
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wanted to iterate enough times to learn that skill.
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But we have this fear of approaching, you know, where the sphere of approaching comes
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from in sales and dating, you know, where it comes from.
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We used to live in tribes and being, you know, castigated by another member of the tribe.
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And the embarrassment it costs could actually cause us to be kept out of the tribe, which
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So we have this fear of social shame, which is no longer applicable in today's society because
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our society is so large that if a girl rejects you, it's not like very likely that
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every single girl in your city is going to know about it.
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And I think it's only overcome with like a callus.
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Like it's not something, I think some people say, because this is the way young people are
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I just am not the type of person who can do that.
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And, and it's like, you know, one of the things we can get into a different topic is
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like what porn is doing to men is it's basically eliminating desperation that you need to take a little
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And I know that's not, but that's actually true.
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I tell my sales team all the time, like there's a lot you can achieve when you're just a little
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And we have this thing that like, you know, we need to raise the floor for everyone.
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I think a little bit of dust, like every, I look, I work with a lot of hyper successful
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Like I'm talking, like you go to our website, lgbg.com.
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I work with global celebrities at the highest level.
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And they all have a really effed up childhood because they had to learn to express their
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talents and maximize for the thing that would get them out of desperation.
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It's a common thread amongst ultra successful people.
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A lot of them come from effed up circumstances.
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Maybe if we raise the floor, then everybody's equal, but maybe we're going to lose the thing
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Like that, that level of brilliance that comes from somebody that becomes obsessed with a life
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One, and this is part of a, probably a whole other podcast we'll do at some point with my
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wife, but we are really interested in creating sort of artificial hardship for our kids because
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I'm really afraid if they don't grow up without any hardship, they're not going to be successful.
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And so we're like buying some land in like Northern Canada with a number of other weird
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families like us and putting cameras to make sure there's not like bears or anything.
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And then just having them have to learn to like live there and feed themselves with a group of
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other kids for a few months, like stuff like that.
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Like we, we thought about maybe like leaving them in another country.
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Like I had to do a few times when I was younger, but then I was like, yeah, but if they get
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murdered or something, then we're going to get blamed for it.
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And you know, but yeah, it's, it's, it's tough to, to try to artificially create this.
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The other thing I wanted to talk about, which is really interesting is I say this, the, the
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So when I was at Stanford business school, getting my MBA, which was really like the best business
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So they were all on two days a week and then three days a week, I would go to 500 startups
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where, because I had a company in their accelerator at the time.
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And so I was learning what Stanford was having to teach us and learning what the accelerator
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And the number one thing I learned of utility that I use almost every day in every business
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venture I've ever done since then is mass cold emailing.
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So a lot of people they'll hear cold calling and they're like, I get cold called all the
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I get those people who are like, hello, is this, and then they say it like the wrong
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I work for whatever company that's not, that's like a, the, the, the cold email equivalent
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of like getting one of those like formatted emails with like gifts in it and stuff.
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And you immediately know, like it's a political trolling email, but then there's other cold
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emails where you click on it and you're like, not sure.
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Like when you are doing good cold calling, you are not dropping out there.
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I think the best place where people still learn to do this is probably in, in, in missions
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They make great salespeople because they have to sell.
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I mean, I, from an outsider's perspective, something that seems pretty preposterous and
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They can either just go, hello, have you heard of blah.
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That's not actually going to convert anyone or they start with like, Hey, what are your
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You know, actually engaging the person about their needs, which I doubt you have had a sales
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person due to you in a long time as you're just like an average person.
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Well, cold calling, cold calling is a brilliant, you know, I'll tell you a funny thing.
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There's a couple of like things that come to mind right away, but like for me, I took so
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much pride in, in really cold calling at a level, whether it was knocking on a door, picking
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up a phone, doing at a level where I would connect very, very quickly with the other
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Because remember all sales is, is person to person.
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It's not business to business, it's just person to person.
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And I, and I would come up with like very witty retorts and I would, you know, iterate
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and try something funnier or something a little bit more spicy just to kind of like capture
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Like as an example, like I've got, I mean, this is going to sound weird out of context, but
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just as an example, like when I, when I was, you know, starting LGFG and I would pick up
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the phone, I would cold call law firms to sell suits and a guy would say, well, look,
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Dimitri, you know, I appreciate the call, but you know, I have a, I have a really good
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And, you know, there's all these, and one of my best answers that I, you know, I've done
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a thousand times, I go, well, Malcolm, let me ask you a question.
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And, you know, some guys would get like really, really, really, really like quirky or like
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It's like, you know, does your tailor make you feel powerful?
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I'd go, well, Malcolm, Saddam Hussein wasn't a very good guy.
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But, you know, and the guy would like, and again, out of context, it sounds weird, but
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I would try to iterate for an answer that would give me a little bit of an edge over my competition.
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Like, and I took a lot of pride in this, right?
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Like, one of my favorite ones is if you call a prospect and he gets angry, he's like, you
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I'm like, Malcolm, dude, dude, dude, I'm effing with you, man.
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And then all of a sudden we established this bond because I pushed his boundaries a little
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And I just learned to, and I go, look, man, you know, and then I continue my pitch.
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And I would, so I would learn how to control the tension.
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And that's something that, you know, was applicable with sales.
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It was applicable with women and dating as well.
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You kind of start to understand that men who have a lot of money act exactly like women.
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By the way, when it comes to consumer habits, that's something I learned from luxury sales
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They have all the power and everybody's trying to get their money.
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So, so, so you kind of learn it's, it's, it's a very transferable skill.
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So anyway, so I went, so I was door to door selling and I started selling, you know, encyclopedias,
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but then I wanted something and I was doing really well at that.
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I wanted to do something a little bit more, let's say, well, I wanted to do something more
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status driven because the, you know, like I could be 25 and making, you know, a few
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hundred grand a year, but I'm still a door to door salesperson.
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And so I discovered that I could probably transfer the direct selling skill to a different
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I chose suits and I started, you know, hitting up law firms and private equity firms and
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banks and calling on people like you with, with Stanford MBAs.
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Before we go further with that, cause I really want to get to that.
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I also want to touch on a few of the sales strategies that you mentioned, cause I think
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they're very useful for people to know about, cause there aren't a lot of places where
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people can learn like useful cold email or sales strategies these days.
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Something you mentioned within both of those, like the race-based joke and the joke around
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Saddam Hussein, not like a joke, but like it's something you wouldn't normally hear in
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both of those, you put in language or a comparison that is usually ex exclusive to non sales
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Um, people do not cross those lines when doing typical sales environments.
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So it categorizes you differently, like as a, like an actual engagement in the person's
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Another thing that you did that's very clever for people to learn from is switching nos to
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yeses in which you say, you, you ask them a question and then you say, oh, because you
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Whereas, you know, their answer is pretty incongruous with whether or not they would book a meeting
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with you, but they said, no, I won't book a meeting.
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And then really, regardless of whatever they answer to that, you can say, oh, okay, great.
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Then let's book a meeting, which is really powerful in terms of moving the process forwards
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So when you first started thinking about what company you were going to like, try to direct
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sell, can you talk about the brainstorming that went on there, the different types of
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products you thought about how you landed on the product you landed on, et cetera?
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So, so, and by the way, just to come back, I'll answer it.
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I'm going to come back to your point about, you know, like pushing a boundary.
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There's a biologic, there's an evolutionary biology reason for it.
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Like what, what, what you want to do is like, if we're being very polite with prospects,
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because just for the sake of politeness or with women, they understand we're virtue signaling
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But as a man to man, like if I'm talking to you and I make a little joke that sort of
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crosses the line a little bit and we don't escalate to violence, I know you're cool.
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And that's actually how men test each other.
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This is why guys, when we compliment, it's like, oh, you douche, you fat piece of crap.
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You know, the way guys compliment each other is actually insulting each other and not
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I gotta, I gotta tell a quick story here before you go further.
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Was that after we had talked for a bit, cause we were talking for a bit when we were in
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London, my wife was behind us and she goes, why was he like miming, punching you?
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But I think that that's the sort of thing that you're talking about there in terms of
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like escalating friendship levels within male, male interactions in things that you can't
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But anyway, continue with what you were talking about.
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And that might've been, that just emerged naturally.
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I think we were just getting along pretty well, but, but, but yeah.
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So what I was thinking is like, I wanted to be in sales for sure, because money was, you
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know, because I am a salesman, let's put it this way.
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Like money is at the top of my hierarchy of needs for my profession.
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We suffer too much as business owners and salespeople in order to make middle income money.
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So it had to, it had to have like a lucrative thing to it.
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So even though I thought I was going to sell software, I realized that like waiting a year
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and a half for an answer and going with 50 parties, wasn't what I wanted.
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So I wanted a quick sales cycle so that I can start earning money.
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One thing that was really important for me is I didn't want to go to any more school.
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I did not want to go get an MBA or, you know, CFA or anything like that.
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So I needed something I could sell right away that didn't need extra, extra qualifications.
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The other thing that was interesting is I had this delusional idea that maybe one day
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So I wanted to sell a product that wasn't regulated.
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Like for example, insurance is very highly regulated depending on the country or even
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state or province you live in or, you know, or financial investments.
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Like I couldn't sell investments to somebody in Alberta and Canada and then go to Norway
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and sell investments because there's different regulating bodies.
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Like, I don't know how it came about, but suits just match my criteria.
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And actually one other thing is I wanted to be selling to highly sophisticated people
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because that was an ethical decision I had made.
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And the reason I say that is when I started, when I got like better at selling encyclopedias
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door to door, I realized very quickly that I can manipulate people that are, let's say
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a certain, below a certain threshold of intelligence.
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I could manipulate them with emotional selling.
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I can get them emotionally vested in the product where I felt like taking their money was
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I didn't want to be like that, but I never felt manipulative when I sold to people that
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Like those people, I never felt like I was manipulative because they're smarter than me.
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And suits, you know, it's like I'm wearing like a $12,000 cashmere, full cashmere suit right
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Like people that buy these kinds of products tend to have made it in life.
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And so it gave me access to these people that I didn't feel manipulative over.
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And also they were people that were CEOs and that ran banks and ran, you know, private
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Because our listeners are going to be interested in thinking about starting their own companies
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First, I love everything that you've talked about so far.
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So he was thinking about the audience that he was selling to.
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Like he's like, I want to sell to this demographic.
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What sort of things does this demographic buy that I could realistically sell to them?
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Then he was also thinking about shipping, storage, everything like that.
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Like that is really important if you have a company idea.
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Suits do not like, they're not like a foodstuff or something like that, right?
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So one, easy to ship between borders, but two, also easy to store.
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Or although you probably wouldn't because most of them are going to be made more bespoke.
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But both of those are very important things to know.
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I was wondering how you thought about how you sourced your original distributor.
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I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally.
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I ended up with six sales because on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the
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elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom and they bought some stuff as well.
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So I put up about $40,000 worth of orders my first week.
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Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine.
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I don't care if somebody was sitting in their office and designing beautiful catalogs.
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A really important story that's similar to this.
00:21:19.360
A lot of people might not know this, but the original big sale that made Microsoft the
00:21:24.440
This is when he was selling the operating system to IBM or something, right?
00:21:29.420
He was selling the operating system to, I want to say, IBM.
00:21:32.340
And he made the sale and he had not even begun to work on making this product.
00:21:43.840
And this falls into something that I think is really important for people when they're
00:21:47.340
thinking about starting a company is the concept of an MVP or a minimal viable product.
00:21:52.460
So this is what is the simplest iteration of your company that you can create to know
00:22:00.760
And for you, that was a magazine that somebody else had printed with pictures that you were
00:22:07.460
selling suits out of because you knew if you can sell these suits for X price, then
00:22:11.720
you can go get them made and everything like that.
00:22:15.440
The hardest part of every company is always the sales.
00:22:20.360
This is why a salesperson is usually the highest paid person at a company.
00:22:25.480
Most of our top sales team is paid more than my wife or I.
00:22:28.960
And it is because you don't have anything if you don't have good.
00:22:32.000
And this is true with marketing that actually works, right?
00:22:35.140
So if you can find a way to get your company, like suppose you were creating a different
00:22:39.120
iteration of this company and you're like, I want to sell suits online.
00:22:42.460
Well, what you could do is add a Facebook page, not like a Facebook page, but like Facebook
00:22:46.880
ads, a landing page that you created in WordPress and see if you can sell the product before
00:22:54.620
And you can buy ads and see what it costs to get each sale and then expand from there if
00:23:00.580
But just a way to think about this from what he's saying.
00:23:03.800
Well, that's the thing that most people avoid is to avoid selling the thing because people
00:23:07.840
have delusional ideas of starting a company, thing that they get to administrate and tell
00:23:14.040
If you want to start a company, you got to do the stuff that actually brings the money,
00:23:17.200
period, because then there's no company without money.
00:23:20.980
And some people are like, I'll go raise money.
0.99
00:23:22.580
It's like, well, who's stupid enough to give you money if you're not generating revenue,
0.99
00:23:30.820
You know, we got all sorts of cool stuff because now, you know, because now it's
00:23:36.080
But yeah, so I had I kind of was like, look, if I get people's credit cards and I even know
00:23:39.920
how to process credit cards at the time, then I was like, OK, I got all these people's
00:23:46.440
So, you know, so what happened was I called up my bank.
00:23:48.400
I'm like, I need a credit card processor because I'm starting a company.
00:23:51.240
And the banker's like, OK, how much revenue do you think you'll do your first year selling
00:24:04.500
She's like, OK, maybe you need some experience running the company first.
00:24:08.140
But it was super funny because like, you know, she didn't believe and I understand why she
00:24:13.560
I'm like, I got 40,000 of orders my first day and she just thought I was lying.
00:24:19.980
The first iteration I flew to Asia the first time it was a terrible product.
00:24:23.620
It took me years to learn that, too, because keep in mind, like this is a really important
00:24:27.220
thing about like building a business, like in our industry, we are the highest-end suit
00:24:30.300
manufacturer on the planet, bar none, hands down.
00:24:33.980
There's maybe five companies in the world today that are able to achieve anywhere near
00:24:38.300
the level that we're able to achieve because we ended up buying our own manufacturer in
00:24:45.680
Like we have the best machinery and everything.
00:24:47.900
But at the time, I was like, I just need a product.
00:24:49.860
And when you're building, you know, when you're in the commodity space, like for example,
00:24:55.960
And if you want to break out the price competition, you have to build a brand and credibility in
00:24:59.860
And at that point, you need a product because, you know, if somebody buys a $5,000 suit from
00:25:04.120
you, a lot of times it's not the only $5,000 suit they're going to try.
00:25:07.660
Like the guy driving the Porsche, he's tried the BMW.
00:25:13.320
At that point, they're choosing between where they're going to put all their money for the
00:25:17.220
And you have to have a product that at least minimally meets the standards of the market and
00:25:23.120
But you're not thinking that way when you start because nobody, without a brand, without
00:25:26.940
market credibility, nobody's going to believe you that you tell them the product is great.
00:25:31.540
It takes years and years and years of market trust to actually build a product that people
00:25:36.340
So, you know, by the time we got to, for example, Jordan Peterson, it wasn't like we'd
00:25:40.960
By the time we got Jordan Peterson, we had over 15,000 long-term clients buying from us for
00:25:45.560
over a decade, including like his brother, who was a client of ours already up in Regina.
00:25:50.140
So, so I just, I don't want people to jump steps here and think like, oh, I can start
00:25:59.280
Well, and, and also product matters a lot here.
00:26:01.500
So something that's really great about suit sales is just logically, if you're selling
00:26:04.940
to somebody, you can be like, look, they're like, why would I buy from you versus a store?
00:26:11.620
Think about how much of the money you're actually paying in there is going to branding storefront.
00:26:16.160
You know, if you're buying a suit from like a Brooks Brothers or something, like a store
00:26:19.700
that has places in Manhattan, you're paying for that.
00:26:24.200
And so you can say, that's where we get differential quality that they're not going to have.
00:26:28.820
Now, something you mentioned that is really important to think about when you're starting
00:26:31.560
a company, and this is the only thing in the suit industry where I'd say it's a less
00:26:35.780
than ideal company is recurring revenue is king.
00:26:39.700
Any product a person has to buy over and over and over again is a really useful product.
00:26:46.340
But with suits, you know, I'm sure you get recurring clients, but that's different from
00:26:58.720
And this is actually something that I teach my company very much.
00:27:03.640
This is actually something I was going to podcast myself for my studio here.
00:27:07.020
There is, I'm hustling all the time, nonstop working wealth.
00:27:12.120
And there's, I'm chilling back and enjoying the money rolling in wealth.
00:27:16.880
And people, people think that this is an argument of a business model.
00:27:19.840
Like with some business models, you get, you have to hustle with some, it's not a business
00:27:25.320
Like I have clients that are in their thirties that are hustling their ass off, making money
00:27:29.640
buying suits, but our best clients are in their fifties and they don't work very hard.
00:27:33.420
But the difference is when you have a giant Rolodex of successful people who trust you
00:27:38.580
that you've built over the years, the money rolls in way easier.
00:27:41.800
I have a friend, I was in Dubai last week with my friend from London.
00:27:47.540
And he's like, Dimitri, you know, something crazy is when Twitter goes public, every lawyer
00:27:51.340
is calling them like, Hey, can I take you public?
00:27:53.320
Because every lawyer wants to make $50 million.
00:27:55.600
He goes, but the guy that gets the deal is the guy that's been working with Twitter for
00:27:59.120
When they first started 20 years, when they first started, he's not the relationship built.
00:28:03.720
So the guy that gets the deal is the guy with the Rolodex with the CEO of Twitter and his,
00:28:10.780
And you might be, you might find this interesting, maybe not, but men are generally pretty loyal
00:28:17.120
Like even, even, even, even marriages, like it's what 20% of men are initiating divorces,
00:28:21.760
like 80% of women men are loyal to things that work.
00:28:24.360
Like when I tell my wife, I want to go for sushi.
00:28:28.740
We always go to, you know, this is true, right?
00:28:32.220
Like once a guy finds a pair of shoes, he likes like Nike, whatever, he'll buy that thing
00:28:37.780
So for us, the reason we get recurring revenue is because our clients like us and trust us
00:28:43.940
They know they get the results they pay for with no surprises.
00:28:47.980
Obviously, you know, you introduce complimentary products like shirts, like pants, whatever.
00:28:51.520
And guys just keep coming back over, over 80% of our revenue this year is recurring revenue.
00:28:57.160
Well, and so a few things when people are thinking about this as like a company idea.
00:29:00.520
So recurring revenue, if you can get that, that's really king, especially like tight recurring
00:29:06.100
So tight recurring revenue would be like a SaaS product or something that they're paying
00:29:10.220
Now that's harder to do if you're doing something on your own.
00:29:12.800
What's really interesting about suits is it's bespoke enough that it makes sense that you
00:29:18.120
could sort of scale a company on it without a big industrial capacity.
00:29:21.160
But if you were doing something that's like more recurring, like razor heads or something
00:29:25.080
like that, you know, that's going to be very hard to compete with the largest players in
00:29:29.060
the space because there you're really competing on like machining, to be honest, which can
00:29:34.020
Now you can still do it if you can set up the right pathways and everything like that.
00:29:41.060
Like in order to manufacture the level that we do it at, like we literally have to buy out
00:29:45.700
But what I would outsell to young people is like, don't worry so much about the product.
00:29:57.240
You can probably license something that's 98% as good as the best in the market and you'll
00:30:05.680
Well, and another thing is, and you mentioned this before, but really think about this when
00:30:08.660
you are starting a company is geographically, how far can I sell this?
00:30:12.480
Like right now I'm working on helping a guy get a landscaping company off the ground.
00:30:15.200
It's a good industry, but you know, it is geographically limited while suits are not
00:30:19.540
geographically limited, but they are really based on a person's sales skills.
00:30:23.280
So another thing I'd recommend with sales skills is if you're like, I don't know how
00:30:27.020
good my sales skills are starting for a direct sales company, like the one that he does, because
00:30:36.940
And so you might find, oh, it's easy to make money selling for them or, you know, eventually
00:30:41.940
start your own thing, but it might just be easier if you're in a good niche.
00:30:45.300
As I've said, as CEOs, the top salespeople at our company out earn us as CEOs.
00:30:53.080
And a lot of people don't realize that, which is why, why, why do we pay them more than we
00:30:58.480
So they don't go and start their own fucking companies.
1.00
00:31:01.620
I had years, several years in the last years where top salespeople made more than me.
00:31:08.500
Like, so obviously, you know, there's a, there's a kind of a tired anecdote where the
00:31:12.460
CFO, the chief financial officer says, gee, what if we train our salespeople when they
00:31:17.740
And the chief executive officer says, what if we don't train our people when they stay?
00:31:21.460
So I tell my guys this, you work for me for two years.
00:31:24.440
I will teach you everything I know about how to direct sell and how to become very, very
00:31:28.500
Not only will you make a bunch of money after two years, you'll have a Rolodex of several
00:31:33.940
And so worst case scenario, if I screw up as a leader, you have 200 CEOs that already spend
00:31:40.700
And you'll have the skills to start your own thing.
00:31:43.080
And then the pressure is on me to make it really, really good for you to stay for a number
00:31:48.080
I like the competition because that's what grows me as a CEO to continue to provide an
00:31:52.860
That's the most profitable, the most growth orientated, uh, and, and the most abundant
00:31:57.900
for them in order to thrive because I don't grow if I don't do my best.
00:32:03.560
So here's the question I have for you, because this is always an interesting question to ask yourself
00:32:07.320
when you're starting a company like this or starting a Salesforce, which is like a whole
00:32:10.560
other thing is, do you give your, your sellers lead lists or do they generate their own lead
00:32:17.680
And if they generate their own lead lists, how do they do that?
00:32:20.180
Because as a company, this is one way that like we prevent or good companies often will
00:32:24.700
prevent their salespeople from leaving because they find the lead list for the salesperson
00:32:29.780
and, and just being able to sell without easy, large lead list generation can be a really
00:32:37.800
So number one, yes, we definitely have, we definitely farm leads and we know how to do
00:32:42.500
that at a very high level, but also I want my salespeople to learn how to do it for themselves.
00:32:46.820
Like I said, I'm not afraid of people, let's say leaving and competing against me because
00:32:50.480
that just says that I've done something terribly wrong in the leadership, right?
00:32:53.880
Like ultimately our salespeople also need to know how to generate leads.
00:32:57.760
One of the things that we do and we teach how to do is we call it floating, which is literally
00:33:01.280
just stopping men on the streets and asking them about their suit.
00:33:06.680
I'll go out for lunch and start, I'll be at Starbucks.
00:33:08.720
I see a guy and I said, well, Hey bro, that's a great suit.
00:33:16.040
My very first week doing this ever, you know, I'll go into a building and I'll just ride
00:33:21.940
I'm like, Hey, I see you guys have an office here.
00:33:28.000
My second day, I think it was ever selling suits was the craziest story.
00:33:40.720
I walk into the office and I go, what are you guys doing?
00:33:47.020
And then it just so happened the CEO had heard me walk in.
00:33:54.740
He loved the fact that I just barged into his office to introduce myself on the spot.
00:33:59.240
He placed a $26,000 order, gave me his black Amex.
00:34:03.520
It was like one of those baller cards, you know, on the spot, 26 grand.
00:34:08.480
He liked my, my, my sort of, you know, pizzazz of walking into the office, being brave.
00:34:13.080
He's like, man, you remind me of myself, you know, blah, blah, blah.
00:34:16.300
So we teach how guys how to walk and girls how to walk into offices, make good introductions,
00:34:20.340
like really creating business from nothing is a core skill.
00:34:23.200
We teach our salespeople, but also keep in mind in our business, it's like this, you
00:34:29.860
But if you want to sell a suit for two, three, four, five, 10, 20 grand, which we sell, you
00:34:34.280
need a brand behind that, a really strong brand.
00:34:36.900
And so one of the things we offer our salespeople, like yesterday, one of our guys in Hong Kong
00:34:40.660
sold like an eight or $9,000 suit, one suit to one guy, eight, $9,000.
00:34:45.380
You can't do that with a random label on your suit for that.
00:34:49.920
And that's what our salespeople get is the credibility of what is today, one of the world's
00:34:54.060
most successful suit brands that is seen on, you know, in Hollywood movies, on celebrities
00:34:58.360
around the world, like our client base at our income level, they know what LGG is and they
00:35:03.260
So I want to, I want to double touch on one thing that you were saying, which I've often
00:35:07.380
seen in my life is when you do these more aggressive sales strategies that are aggressive,
00:35:12.240
but also understand how to not overstep people's boundaries, which is really important.
00:35:16.920
High level people typically recognize that and they respect that because that is the primary
00:35:22.100
way that high level people got to where they are.
00:35:24.260
There was an episode that we have been unable to air, which is on how to get laid because
00:35:28.240
the AI that I use to like scan our episodes said, you cannot post this, your channel will
00:35:33.820
But I would say that almost all of the core advice you're going to get from that, you could
00:35:40.760
All of these techniques that he's talking about, like how to stop someone on the street
00:35:45.720
to build them at the potential lead, how to get into a specific environment where then
00:35:52.140
All of these are cross transferable skills with getting laid.
00:35:56.360
If you get really good at getting laid through like honest means, not like cheesy, you know,
00:36:01.400
overly optimized pickup artistry stuff, but like actual, just honest sales, because that's
00:36:08.860
You're learning how to generate leads and then sell yourself to people.
00:36:12.000
That skill will cross transfer to sales and vice versa, which means that if you want to
00:36:17.220
get really good at getting laid, you can do that by moving into these types of sales
00:36:21.280
To be transparent, that might be why I ended up in sales to begin with.
00:36:27.080
I like books, but I wasn't good at like communication.
00:36:29.400
I think somebody showed me a picture like this was our company president's club trip.
00:36:34.140
I'm like, wow, there's a trip with girls in bikinis and I can get on it if I sell a lot.
1.00
00:36:38.160
You know, that's probably, you know, that's probably the primal reason I was like, this
00:36:43.040
Another thing to note here is that every single stage, like the hardest parts of doing
00:36:47.500
a business are going to be sales processes that require the same skillset.
00:36:52.060
You want to raise venture capital funding for your company.
00:36:54.880
That is the exact skillset that you need to sell something like a suit.
00:36:58.520
And if you are shying away from that part of the starting a company, you are not going
00:37:06.140
You might be able to do a debt raise because bankers are a bit more bureaucratic and there's
00:37:12.160
The other thing to note is learning sales skills.
00:37:15.420
The problem with learning sales skills is you can really only do this at companies that were
00:37:20.820
And that is because good salespeople always have something better to do with their time
00:37:28.920
This is one of the hardest things to do as a company is get your, your good salespeople
00:37:42.760
How to do that is really, really intricate, but sorry.
00:37:48.200
Well, what we ended up doing, and you can tell me if this is a bad idea is we basically
00:37:52.320
give them a portion of any increased revenue that their training creates.
00:37:57.560
So if they're in charge of training someone, and then that person increases the revenue
00:38:01.320
that they're bringing in for something like three or four years, the person who handled
00:38:10.720
The next tactic that we use is family-based systems.
00:38:15.580
This is just like a side strategy, but it's something that is probably useful for people
00:38:19.580
So what we do is we mostly hire from Latin America.
00:38:22.080
That's our like primary audience, which is culturally a bit different from America in
00:38:27.720
One of the things that we switched to, and for us was one of the biggest boons our company
1.00
00:38:31.080
ever did, is we allowed people to hire family members to work for them.
00:38:35.020
And as soon as we did that, the level of sales transference, like knowledge of sales skills
00:38:41.020
exploded because these were often the people that these people were earning money to send
00:38:48.780
Now that they're just hiring these people, why not train them?
00:38:52.060
You are going to give them a portion of your money anyway, right?
00:39:00.860
And if you expand to Latin America with sales cycles, I really encourage family-based systems.
00:39:07.220
And it's one of these things where like working from home, all of a sudden, everything like
00:39:11.280
efficiency, like increases dramatically and everything like that.
00:39:14.260
When you let people work the way they really want to, you will often find efficiency gains
00:39:19.040
from A players and efficiency decreases from C and D players.
00:39:24.260
And it's really funny you say that this is so cool to what I teach and what I do on a
00:39:28.760
day-to-day basis as CEO of our company is actually designing and implementing and being
00:39:34.580
very, very loyal to internal policies that specifically promote A players and force C players to leave
00:39:44.780
I'm like, I literally say like my mission as CEO is to eliminate equality in my company.
00:39:48.540
That's my mission, like eliminate equality because we're a sales company.
1.00
00:39:51.640
So it's like, we have two kinds of people in a sales company, those that make more money
00:39:55.220
than God and those who are barely keeping up and trying to keep their head above water.
00:39:58.900
And I'm like, if you're unable to keep your head above water, I want you to leave.
00:40:04.980
I don't want you dragging down our salesperson's average income because top producers, when they
00:40:10.100
come in, they say, what's the average salesperson earning in your company?
00:40:13.460
I say, in our company, new grads are over six figures within 18 months on average.
00:40:18.960
18 months as they cross the six figure line and then they go, what are the top guys making?
00:40:22.900
And I can point them and say, well, you'll make over a million if you're a top guy in
00:40:26.840
And so that's really interesting you say that because you're absolutely right.
00:40:29.720
I just had recruited a couple of guys from another sales company that are like top, top
00:40:34.240
And they literally were on a call together and they asked me, they're like, what would
00:40:39.480
They gave me a scenario where like a low producer and a high producer are competing for turf.
00:40:46.540
And they're like, thank you, because in their last company, there was so much bureaucracy
00:40:49.660
where they, as the top two salespeople in the company had to fight with low producers
00:40:58.600
I want ultimate maximization at the highest level.
00:41:01.580
Well, and something I know with a company like his, or with a lot of companies like this,
00:41:05.520
to be this type of a salesperson is like a really tough skill to develop, to get to
00:41:11.740
And so you might say, how do I develop this skill?
00:41:13.780
Like, how do I develop like prodromal sales skills, like, like before entering a sales
0.69
00:41:17.480
market, like before getting people to have sex with me or something like that.
0.62
00:41:23.560
The real key is learn how to make friends at scale.
0.98
00:41:28.340
And people might be like, what the fuck do you mean?
0.94
00:41:30.580
Learn how to make friends at scale without trying to sell to someone without trying to
0.99
00:41:36.220
Can you stop people at a mall or on a street and make friends with them, like get their
0.90
00:41:43.720
If you develop this skill, this is stage one to all of these other skills, but it's a very,
00:41:50.740
you know, it's a very difficult stage one for a lot of people because they're not used
00:41:55.600
And the other thing to note is you, you've got to do this without looking like you're going
00:41:58.920
through a manic episode, which is what some people do.
00:42:01.840
Like it's more than just being able to go up and talk to someone and engage them.
00:42:06.060
You need to be able to go up and talk to someone while also being, you know, self-demeaning and
00:42:11.580
jocular enough that you, you don't look like somebody who's having a mental breakdown that
00:42:18.880
And, and there's all sorts of like, you will develop lines.
00:42:21.820
Like as you begin to do this, like maybe like, look, I'm new in town.
00:42:26.440
I had no idea it was going to be this hard to meet people locally, but I'm trying this
00:42:35.100
And most people might say, no, some people would say yes, but little lines like that can
00:42:42.820
You just gained so much credibility with me because that's, first of all, that's exactly
00:42:46.840
how I started as I made a commitment for myself that if I'm out like waiting in line
00:42:51.340
for something, going into a mall, a mall elevator, my goal is I'm going to talk to every stranger
00:42:56.900
And, and then started just saying a compliment, like, Hey man, those are awesome shoes or
00:43:00.900
like saying to a girl, Hey, great hair, you know, just whatever it could be coming off
00:43:04.640
as bad and creepy at the beginning, because I'm just trying to build my confidence and
00:43:09.740
Like that's actually something I did very consciously to the point where it's now for
00:43:14.700
Like, and if you saw me at arc, you know, I was with a group of like politicians.
00:43:18.440
They're pretty high level guys that people know and a couple of famous actor types that
00:43:22.760
And they're like, Oh, we can't get into the, you know, the, the big thing that Peterson's
00:43:31.640
I'm like, let's just show up and I'm going to talk to, and I showed up and I'm talking
00:43:35.560
We ended up not only getting front row tickets, we actually backstage access afterwards
00:43:39.440
to hang out with all the speakers that were on stage.
00:43:42.200
And a lot of it was like, I know that I've developed a superpower.
00:43:44.720
Like I will talk to the waiter of the restaurant.
00:43:47.280
I will talk to the, to the maitre d' of the restaurant.
00:43:53.280
And eventually I remember one of the guys that came to our key was like, dude, that was
00:43:57.440
He's like, you literally, like the first night I ended up having dinner with one of the
0.58
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The next night I had dinner with a different speaker.
00:44:03.800
I'm like, I just make sure that I talk to everybody.
00:44:06.240
Like I met you at the conference cause you, you were walking around.
00:44:12.160
And like I said, you know, the podcast with it, you and I did one before.
00:44:15.260
It's like the most valuable thing you have in life when you get older is the Rolodex.
00:44:22.120
So a lot of people they'll hear this and they'll be like, yeah, but I'm not an extrovert.
00:44:29.120
Most of the people who are best at doing this are extreme introverts.
00:44:33.660
The reason they get good at doing this is because they do not naturally make friends.
00:44:38.720
And so they have to force themselves to learn how to make friends in the most clinical sociopathic
00:44:45.700
manner possible where they're like, okay, this is step one in engaging people.
00:44:49.600
I can't leave this party unless I've talked to at least five people because they would
00:44:54.160
just leave the party without talking to anyone because that's what they want to do.
00:44:58.160
And I think that this is a really important thing.
00:45:00.460
It's all of these reasons that a person might be telling themselves, I can't begin to try
00:45:07.900
They're actually the reasons why, I don't know.
00:45:09.560
Do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?
00:45:11.280
So I certainly don't consider myself a natural.
00:45:15.660
Like I remember I got into Gene Simmons house last month and ended up measuring some, you
00:45:20.860
And people were like, at the party, they're like, dude, you know, everybody, how'd you get
00:45:26.380
And he's like, I don't know what I'm doing at this party.
00:45:28.300
You know, my boss brought me, but you know, everybody, you know, it's amazing.
00:45:33.960
Literally, I told him, I'm like, you're 18, right?
00:45:36.360
I'm like, listen to me and listen to me carefully, young man.
00:45:39.420
Everything you're seeing me do out here is 100% intentional.
00:45:45.180
And so I would not consider myself an extrovert.
00:45:47.600
I certainly would not consider myself a natural, but I'll beat any natural because a natural,
00:45:51.960
you know, it's like, if you were good with the girls in high school or university, like
00:45:55.400
by the time that I started iterating and trying to, you know, understand how to gamify
00:46:02.520
It's not like, you know, it's not like I had sociopathic outcomes in mind.
00:46:06.200
My outcomes were to maximize my potential to get to marry the woman I want to marry and
0.66
00:46:09.760
have kids that, you know, that I want to have, not have to settle, for example.
00:46:13.540
Same with my financial other stuff in my career.
0.96
00:46:15.860
But like, it was so intentional that I knew that if you're a natural, I will destroy you
00:46:20.660
and you won't understand what's happening because I'll start to understand.
00:46:23.400
And it's like, you know, there's very gregarious, extroverted people who go into sales thinking
00:46:28.860
After a couple of years, I creamed, I destroyed those people.
0.99
00:46:33.180
And it's like, I'm like, because you're just operating on your intuition, but I'm operating
00:46:38.520
So I'm basically running like an AI mechanism here.
00:46:41.720
And I think a key thing that a lot of these people miss is being a good salesperson does
00:46:47.880
Now, some people, there's different ways you can optimize yourself.
00:46:52.540
Does not mean acting like you're stereotypical, like frat bro, like charisma person.
00:46:59.960
High charisma can look like autism when it's performed well.
00:47:05.060
So you want to talk about like great sales recently?
00:47:09.180
She had no fucking product and she sold it to the wealthiest men in the world, raising
1.00
00:47:17.300
If you look at her, she's very, stuff like that.
00:47:21.520
Then you'll see this, like, if you meet a venture capitalist, people be like, well,
00:47:24.260
venture capitalists, like they're all so, you know, spectrum-y, they must have horrible
00:47:28.740
Everything about being a venture capitalist is sales.
00:47:30.720
You're either raising money from LPs, which is selling, or you are trying to get into deals,
00:47:35.260
which you really have no business getting into because you, you know, you, you've got to
00:47:41.180
And everybody often knows what the best deals are.
00:47:45.360
So all of these jobs that a lot of people associate with like ASPE personality types,
00:47:49.500
they actually are just optimized for sales within their field.
00:47:56.280
We literally have this call in our company all the time.
00:47:58.060
The best lawyers are the ones that are the best brain makers.
00:48:01.560
But the main thing I think you're trying to purvey, and I want to, I want to second that
00:48:06.480
is that you can learn how to be an amazing salesperson and a great networker.
00:48:12.220
Like, I remember if I saw this at 18, I wouldn't have believed this because I got into it in
00:48:16.240
my early twenties, but like, you can learn this.
00:48:25.120
It's your, you can be born at a certain level, but you can learn it.
00:48:28.500
And what's fucked up is it's all the same skill.
0.89
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It's like the most important skill and they do not teach it to you anywhere.
0.97
00:48:37.900
This is actually really interesting is because schools are natural.
00:48:42.020
So, you know, there's differences in testosterone that are predicted by the profession.
00:48:47.160
So testosterone can predict the profession you go into.
00:48:49.480
Entrepreneurs have the highest levels of testosterone.
00:48:54.100
Because, you know, like testosterone is associated connected to risk seeking.
00:48:57.140
Who's a lower risk seeker than somebody that grew up in a school and then professionally
00:49:02.020
went back to school and then teaching at the same school?
00:49:04.820
So teachers can't teach you this stuff because they don't have the risk seeking appetite.
00:49:12.560
And they're not going to teach you how to optimize for risk.
00:49:14.900
They're going to teach you how to minimize risk.
00:49:19.720
Another thing I say is there's a filter happening here.
00:49:21.700
If you know a lot about starting companies, but like you haven't started a company, then
00:49:28.220
If you know a lot about starting companies and you've started a company, well, then you're
00:49:35.040
And this is one of the things that top business schools, which is why the top business schools
00:49:38.480
are typically so far above the next year business schools, is they typically will only
00:49:43.260
employ people who have actually run large companies before or made it into those positions,
00:49:47.820
which means that they need to be compensated really well because they're used to these
00:49:51.660
large, anyway, or compensated in who they're interacting with, like mental stimulation.
00:49:59.420
This might be like the most useful show in how to get rich, even more than the how to
00:50:06.100
And I think that this will make a difference for a lot of people.
00:50:08.560
Could you talk a bit about your company and people were interested in reaching out about
00:50:19.160
We're selling, retailing high-end bespoke suits on a direct sales model across 26 countries
00:50:24.060
around the world, all the way from Canada out to China.
00:50:29.020
And when we're hiring, we're primarily targeting younger recruits that are starting their career
00:50:34.280
in sales that want to learn some of the skills we talk about, how to sell, how to close deals,
00:50:41.580
And very, very proudly so working with top-level celebrities, top-level clientele.
00:50:49.420
Well, and that can help you get in the door with sales.
00:50:51.720
Like, oh, look, this person, you know, they, yeah.
00:50:56.960
If you judge correctly, tribal affiliation, like, oh, the Jordan Peterson thing, and someone's
00:51:01.400
a Jordan Peterson fan, you know, you can, you can get through barriers.