Based Camp - How to Start a Company with Dimitry Toukhcher

00:00:00.000 See, people over-plan and under-execute.

00:00:02.440 I was all about execution.

00:00:03.520 The first day I went out, I had no fabrics.

00:00:05.440 I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally.

00:00:08.320 I had a home hardware order book.

00:00:10.060 I went into Blake's Law Firm in Alberta.

00:00:13.320 I was cold calling.

00:00:14.260 I had five meetings.

00:00:15.140 I ended up with six sales because on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the

00:00:19.140 elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom, and they bought some stuff as well.

00:00:23.220 So I put up about $40,000 worth of orders my first week.

00:00:26.480 Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine.

00:00:29.320 Would you like to know more?

00:00:31.120 Hello, this is Malcolm Collins here with Dimitri.

00:00:34.480 I actually met you when we were recording for Just Pearly Things.

00:00:37.540 Oh, no, before that at the art conference, he runs LGMG, which is the company that makes

00:00:42.240 things like Jordan Peterson suits, if you're familiar with those sort of wacky suits.

00:00:45.440 But they also make, you know, more conservative outfits as well.

00:00:47.980 So worth checking out.

00:00:49.360 And what I wanted to do with this episode, because we've had some episodes on how to

00:00:54.400 like make money or start companies, which our listeners seem to really like.

00:00:59.320 And you went from, my understanding, being an encyclopedia salesman to building this quite

00:01:05.740 large company.

00:01:06.720 I'd love it if you could walk through the process of that.

00:01:10.900 Sure.

00:01:11.340 So every company is a little bit different, right?

00:01:13.220 Like when people say, like, what does the CEO do?

00:01:15.320 How did you start your company?

00:01:16.660 There's not one sort of formula that everybody follows.

00:01:19.980 You know, in our case, we're a direct sales company.

00:01:21.860 So, you know, when I was in university and our company is LGFG, it's like, it just stands

00:01:25.780 for look, good, feel, but lgfg.com.

00:01:27.560 So when I was in university, I just, I needed a way to make some money.

00:01:31.940 And I guess, you know, not everybody, not everybody responds the same to authority.

00:01:36.560 Like in my case, coming from the USSR, like authority wasn't sexy to me.

00:01:40.640 And so going into a very large company, like I did a co-op term for the government of Canada,

00:01:45.080 working in public works and government services.

00:01:47.620 And I despised working in a government office.

00:01:50.260 It was just so slow and everybody was so mediocre and slovenly and, and just, you know, lazy.

00:01:56.820 I want to hear more about working in the government to start, because I started my career working

00:02:01.360 at like a cubicle office.

00:02:03.000 Now it was a startup, but it was dramatically more efficient than when I worked in like even

00:02:08.080 academia, like academia was slow.

00:02:09.800 I've heard like government, government work is even worse.

00:02:12.000 Can you talk about like office structure?

00:02:13.900 Let me tell you a couple examples.

00:02:15.380 Like I'll tell you my personal experiences.

00:02:17.060 They may be anecdotal, but these are my experiences.

00:02:18.860 So like I was a SQL coder.

00:02:20.920 So I was supposed to design like an online intranet portal where government workers from

00:02:26.260 our department could log in and view.

00:02:28.800 So this, this government department built like roads and bridges and things like that.

00:02:32.620 And we had to compare like the budget that was set for us for the year versus the budget

00:02:36.760 that we actually spent.

00:02:37.780 And we needed to be able to query it very quickly.

00:02:39.820 Right.

00:02:40.840 And so about two months in, I finished all the SQL stuff and we launched the thing and

00:02:45.640 we started searching like month by month and we could see that we were for the year dramatically

00:02:49.320 under budget, which was great.

00:02:51.180 Yeah.

00:02:51.780 Which was great.

00:02:52.440 And then my, my, my supervisor who was like the department head, she was like, Hey, I

00:02:57.480 see that we're like $200,000 under budget for the year.

00:03:00.300 I was like, this is great.

00:03:01.360 She's like, my God, we're going to have to get the best pizza party ever.

00:03:05.020 And I thought she was joking and she wasn't.

00:03:07.060 We had like a month of just pizza parties.

00:03:08.680 She literally said we need to spend $200,000 so that we get the same budget next year.

00:03:12.560 Otherwise they'll lower our budget.

00:03:14.180 Yeah.

00:03:14.340 I was like, this is taxpayer money.

00:03:16.340 Like I'm not at this point, I'm like 22, but I understand you're just throwing taxpayer

00:03:19.880 money away.

00:03:20.320 This is just wasteful.

00:03:21.860 She's like, yeah, but like, they'll give us a lower budget.

00:03:23.900 I'm like, can you imagine if you're a CEO of a company and it's your money and your company's

00:03:27.800 money and your employee spends $200,000 on pizza in a month?

00:03:32.240 It was wild as some larger companies begin to develop policies like this.

00:03:37.860 Like if they get so large and bureaucratic and regulated, like you're talking like the

00:03:41.500 airline industry or something.

00:03:42.660 And this is just wildly inefficient.

00:03:45.360 It's one of the things that my wife, she's running, she'll be running for office in this

00:03:48.620 next cycle.

00:03:49.360 She wants to replace a large portion of local government with AI to like use AI crawlers

00:03:54.360 to detect this type of behavior in budget systems.

00:03:58.300 But like, I completely agree with what you're talking about.

00:04:01.420 That's horrifying, but it's a good place to start because we're starting with like the

00:04:04.940 least efficient corporate structures.

00:04:07.240 Now, what did you do after that?

00:04:09.520 Yeah.

00:04:09.760 So, so, so kind of concurrently in my summertime, I got recruited to sell encyclopedias door

00:04:14.040 to door, which was a completely opposite experience.

00:04:16.000 So now instead of, you know, being in an office with many, many people, lots of bureaucracy,

00:04:20.380 things move slowly and nothing really seems to happen ever.

00:04:23.280 I'm outside by myself knocking on doors and I either, you know, get chased off a porch or

00:04:27.980 if I do my, you know, if I execute at a high level, I'll get a check right there then on

00:04:32.240 the spot because it's like, you know, you knock, you show, you sell, you take a check,

00:04:35.120 you're done.

00:04:35.600 Right.

00:04:36.240 Yeah.

00:04:36.460 And so this is like the complete opposite.

00:04:38.180 And obviously the results come very, very quickly in direct sales because, you know,

00:04:42.000 right away if you're, if you're moving forward or you're not.

00:04:44.540 And so that experience, I did that for, I ended up doing that for six years.

00:04:47.460 I actually bought my first home in Vancouver and I was a third year student at UBC because

00:04:52.080 I'd done so well in door-to-door sales.

00:04:53.940 Right.

00:04:54.220 So I learned, I learned a skill that was very, very useful, which is the skill to be able

00:04:58.480 to sell a product to a person.

00:05:00.480 And by the way, leave that person quite happy at that transaction because, you know, they

00:05:04.680 have a long cancellation policy in Canada and I didn't seem to have a lot of cancellation.

00:05:08.040 So people like the transaction.

00:05:09.660 I'm like, this is good.

00:05:11.500 And, and so when I finished my university degrees, I was like, okay, I have this.

00:05:16.680 Before we go further, I want to, I want to stick on this point for a bit.

00:05:19.780 But encyclopedias, I feel like our younger listeners may not know what those are.

00:05:23.900 So, I mean, this was a, this was a condensed encyclopedia, but there are books that basically

00:05:27.900 like give you information.

00:05:28.980 Our case, what we were selling were more like study guides for school, like to help with,

00:05:32.740 you know, math, homework, writing essays, just a reference guide for people.

00:05:35.860 Yeah, like Wikipedia in a book.

00:05:38.360 Kind of like that, kind of like that.

00:05:40.000 Exactly.

00:05:40.480 So that was kind of the idea.

00:05:41.440 And even at the time Wikipedia existed, I'm not that old and the internet existed.

00:05:44.800 Right.

00:05:45.120 Yeah.

00:05:45.600 But, but, but I was able to make the sale.

00:05:47.320 It was just, you know, there's other things that people benefit.

00:05:49.780 And so, so something I wanted to touch on here, cause I thought this was very interesting.

00:05:53.620 It came to a statistics I heard recently is I've always said, so one, just in terms of

00:05:57.860 direct sales for our listeners, we have another episode on how to get rich, where we do discuss

00:06:02.240 direct sales as a mechanism, because it is a fairly reliable mechanism.

00:06:06.580 Just make sure you don't confuse direct sales with MLMs, but they're, they're very distinct.

00:06:11.020 And I would also say that a really interesting thing is you might have an arbitrage opportunity

00:06:15.700 if you're out there doing direct sales today, because when I was younger, I had to learn

00:06:19.620 to sell myself to women.

00:06:21.480 I had to learn to go up to random women and get them interested in me.

00:06:25.780 But I would do this, you know, at malls, I'd randomly walk up to people over and over

00:06:28.700 and over again.

00:06:29.360 And a lot of guys had this experience.

00:06:30.920 This is how we learned to hit on people.

00:06:33.420 Well, I saw a statistic recently that said of Gen Z, only 10% of men have ever approached

00:06:37.700 a woman, which means that you're getting a whole generation of people who just have never

00:06:42.380 built up the, I would say the cognitive fortitude that's needed to do stuff like knocking on

00:06:47.820 doors and direct sales.

00:06:49.900 So you're going to have a huge arbitrage opportunity.

00:06:52.580 People will have not run into a direct salesperson in years.

00:06:56.660 I literally, listen, I teach this to my company all the time.

00:06:58.900 People say cold calling doesn't work.

00:07:00.320 That's BS.

00:07:00.940 Cold calling works better now than it's ever worked.

00:07:02.740 And I've been doing this for 20 years.

00:07:03.900 It works better because when you're good, they've like, literally people have never

00:07:08.080 experienced a good salesperson.

00:07:09.400 They just have this idea of like some cheesy salesman being like this douche, whatever.

00:07:12.940 That's like, no man, great salespeople that bring revenue to the company.

00:07:16.580 They're the highest paid people in the world because it's so hard to get revenue.

00:07:19.640 Right.

00:07:20.480 And by the way, you know, that thing you said about like approaching girls with them.

00:07:23.320 I mean, I did the same thing and I, and I actually did it with a group of guys that

00:07:27.300 taught it and I signed up for their seminar and I was already like 22 or 23 because I

00:07:32.380 wanted to iterate enough times to learn that skill.

00:07:34.840 But we have this fear of approaching, you know, where the sphere of approaching comes

00:07:37.900 from in sales and dating, you know, where it comes from.

00:07:39.740 It's, it comes from tribalism, right?

00:07:41.680 So we used to live in tribes.

00:07:42.980 We used to live in tribes and being, you know, castigated by another member of the tribe.

00:07:47.600 And the embarrassment it costs could actually cause us to be kept out of the tribe, which

00:07:51.660 means certain deaths.

00:07:52.320 So we have this fear of social shame, which is no longer applicable in today's society because

00:07:56.500 our society is so large that if a girl rejects you, it's not like very likely that

00:08:00.560 every single girl in your city is going to know about it.

00:08:02.580 You know what I mean?

00:08:03.320 Yeah.

00:08:04.020 So, yeah.

00:08:05.580 And I think it's only overcome with like a callus.

00:08:07.860 Like it's not something, I think some people say, because this is the way young people are

00:08:11.500 raised today.

00:08:12.300 I just am not the type of person who can do that.

00:08:14.700 Right.

00:08:15.080 No, anyone can make themselves desperation.

00:08:18.240 And, and it's like, you know, one of the things we can get into a different topic is

00:08:21.320 like what porn is doing to men is it's basically eliminating desperation that you need to take a little

00:08:26.000 bit more risk in your life.

00:08:27.100 And I know that's not, but that's actually true.

00:08:29.440 Right.

00:08:29.700 Because like, it's true.

00:08:30.520 Men aren't desperate enough anymore.

00:08:32.680 There's like a really high amount of things.

00:08:34.420 I tell my sales team all the time, like there's a lot you can achieve when you're just a little

00:08:38.400 bit desperate.

00:08:38.880 And we have this thing that like, you know, we need to raise the floor for everyone.

00:08:41.620 I'm like, I disagree with that.

00:08:43.380 I think a little bit of dust, like every, I look, I work with a lot of hyper successful

00:08:48.260 people.

00:08:48.660 Like I'm talking, like you go to our website, lgbg.com.

00:08:51.080 I work with global celebrities at the highest level.

00:08:53.700 And they all have a really effed up childhood because they had to learn to express their

00:08:58.560 talents and maximize for the thing that would get them out of desperation.

00:09:02.340 Right.

00:09:02.740 And it's a common thread.

00:09:03.880 And I've heard this in the Joe Rogan podcast.

00:09:05.360 It's a common thread amongst ultra successful people.

00:09:08.080 A lot of them come from effed up circumstances.

00:09:09.860 And you know what?

00:09:10.880 Maybe if we raise the floor, then everybody's equal, but maybe we're going to lose the thing

00:09:15.520 about human ingenuity.

00:09:16.620 Like that, that level of brilliance that comes from somebody that becomes obsessed with a life

00:09:20.740 and then they pursue it, you know?

00:09:22.320 Yeah.

00:09:22.640 So two threads I really want to pull on here.

00:09:24.740 One, and this is part of a, probably a whole other podcast we'll do at some point with my

00:09:28.760 wife, but we are really interested in creating sort of artificial hardship for our kids because

00:09:33.520 I'm really afraid if they don't grow up without any hardship, they're not going to be successful.

00:09:37.580 And so we're like buying some land in like Northern Canada with a number of other weird

00:09:41.600 families like us and putting cameras to make sure there's not like bears or anything.

00:09:44.540 And then just having them have to learn to like live there and feed themselves with a group of

00:09:48.340 other kids for a few months, like stuff like that.

00:09:50.460 Like we, we thought about maybe like leaving them in another country.

00:09:53.400 Like I had to do a few times when I was younger, but then I was like, yeah, but if they get

00:09:56.660 murdered or something, then we're going to get blamed for it.

00:09:58.960 And you know, but yeah, it's, it's, it's tough to, to try to artificially create this.

00:10:03.380 The other thing I wanted to talk about, which is really interesting is I say this, the, the

00:10:07.780 number one skill I ever learned.

00:10:09.720 So when I was at Stanford business school, getting my MBA, which was really like the best business

00:10:13.400 school program in the world.

00:10:14.260 Right.

00:10:14.660 I, at the same time, I organized my classes.

00:10:16.940 So they were all on two days a week and then three days a week, I would go to 500 startups

00:10:20.380 where, because I had a company in their accelerator at the time.

00:10:22.960 And so I was learning what Stanford was having to teach us and learning what the accelerator

00:10:26.920 is having to teach us.

00:10:27.820 And the number one thing I learned of utility that I use almost every day in every business

00:10:32.080 venture I've ever done since then is mass cold emailing.

00:10:36.020 And I learned that from startup world.

00:10:38.320 And that's like cold calling.

00:10:39.440 So a lot of people they'll hear cold calling and they're like, I get cold called all the

00:10:42.900 time.

00:10:43.120 I get those people who are like, hello, is this, and then they say it like the wrong

00:10:46.780 name.

00:10:47.220 I work for whatever company that's not, that's like a, the, the, the cold email equivalent

00:10:52.820 of like getting one of those like formatted emails with like gifts in it and stuff.

00:10:56.080 And you immediately know, like it's a political trolling email, but then there's other cold

00:10:59.320 emails where you click on it and you're like, not sure.

00:11:01.520 Is this a robo email or not?

00:11:03.260 Like when you are doing good cold calling, you are not dropping out there.

00:11:09.340 I think the best place where people still learn to do this is probably in, in, in missions

00:11:14.360 with the church of Mormon.

00:11:15.440 Like, like I love that.

00:11:17.580 I mean, you want good salespeople.

00:11:19.040 They make great salespeople because they have to sell.

00:11:21.420 I mean, I, from an outsider's perspective, something that seems pretty preposterous and

00:11:25.700 go door to door doing it.

00:11:26.900 And there's two ways they can approach this.

00:11:28.160 They can either just go, hello, have you heard of blah.

00:11:30.180 That's not actually going to convert anyone or they start with like, Hey, what are your

00:11:34.600 problems?

00:11:35.180 What are you dealing with right now?

00:11:36.360 You know, actually engaging the person about their needs, which I doubt you have had a sales

00:11:42.020 person due to you in a long time as you're just like an average person.

00:11:44.640 But anyway, continue.

00:11:45.840 Well, cold calling, cold calling is a brilliant, you know, I'll tell you a funny thing.

00:11:48.860 There's a couple of like things that come to mind right away, but like for me, I took so

00:11:53.440 much pride in, in really cold calling at a level, whether it was knocking on a door, picking

00:11:58.540 up a phone, doing at a level where I would connect very, very quickly with the other

00:12:04.320 person.

00:12:04.660 Because remember all sales is, is person to person.

00:12:07.160 It's not business to business, it's just person to person.

00:12:09.580 Right.

00:12:10.480 And I, and I would come up with like very witty retorts and I would, you know, iterate

00:12:14.020 and try something funnier or something a little bit more spicy just to kind of like capture

00:12:18.680 somebody's attention a little bit.

00:12:20.320 Like as an example, like I've got, I mean, this is going to sound weird out of context, but

00:12:24.000 just as an example, like when I, when I was, you know, starting LGFG and I would pick up

00:12:28.060 the phone, I would cold call law firms to sell suits and a guy would say, well, look,

00:12:31.940 Dimitri, you know, I appreciate the call, but you know, I have a, I have a really good

00:12:35.380 tailor already.

00:12:37.060 And, you know, there's all these, and one of my best answers that I, you know, I've done

00:12:41.060 a thousand times, I go, well, Malcolm, let me ask you a question.

00:12:44.780 Does your tailor make you feel powerful?

00:12:47.120 You know, like Saddam Hussein.

00:12:48.220 And the guy would go, no.

00:12:52.680 And I go, great.

00:12:53.460 Open your calendar.

00:12:54.120 Let's meet.

00:12:55.400 And, you know, some guys would get like really, really, really, really like quirky or like

00:12:59.220 kind of try to be a little more foxy with me.

00:13:01.000 It's like, you know, does your tailor make you feel powerful?

00:13:03.280 Like Saddam Hussein.

00:13:03.880 He'd go, yeah.

00:13:04.880 I'd go, well, Malcolm, Saddam Hussein wasn't a very good guy.

00:13:08.320 But, you know, and the guy would like, and again, out of context, it sounds weird, but

00:13:11.240 I would try to iterate for an answer that would give me a little bit of an edge over my competition.

00:13:14.980 Like, and I took a lot of pride in this, right?

00:13:17.200 Like, I really took a lot of pride in this.

00:13:18.640 Like, one of my favorite ones is if you call a prospect and he gets angry, he's like, you

00:13:22.660 people call me all the time.

00:13:24.400 I go, you people?

00:13:25.860 You say that because I'm black?

00:13:27.920 And then I would go, oh, my God.

00:13:29.580 And then I would go, oh, well, I don't know.

00:13:32.680 I'm like, Malcolm, dude, dude, dude, I'm effing with you, man.

00:13:36.180 I'm just trolling.

00:13:37.480 And the guy's like, oh, okay.

00:13:38.420 And then he laughs.

00:13:39.140 And then all of a sudden we established this bond because I pushed his boundaries a little

00:13:42.660 bit.

00:13:43.020 You know, it didn't get violent.

00:13:44.060 It was kind of funny.

00:13:44.860 He's relieved.

00:13:45.420 And I just learned to, and I go, look, man, you know, and then I continue my pitch.

00:13:49.120 And I would, so I would learn how to control the tension.

00:13:51.420 And that's something that, you know, was applicable with sales.

00:13:53.720 It was applicable with women and dating as well.

00:13:55.720 You kind of start to understand that men who have a lot of money act exactly like women.

00:14:00.140 By the way, when it comes to consumer habits, that's something I learned from luxury sales

00:14:03.280 is men with a lot of money.

00:14:04.960 They have all the power and everybody's trying to get their money.

00:14:07.640 Well, guess what?

00:14:08.200 Beautiful women have all the power.

00:14:09.720 Everybody's trying to get a piece of them too.

00:14:11.120 So, so, so you kind of learn it's, it's, it's a very transferable skill.

00:14:15.580 So anyway, so I went, so I was door to door selling and I started selling, you know, encyclopedias,

00:14:20.060 but then I wanted something and I was doing really well at that.

00:14:22.460 I wanted to do something a little bit more, let's say, well, I wanted to do something more

00:14:26.620 status driven because the, you know, like I could be 25 and making, you know, a few

00:14:30.040 hundred grand a year, but I'm still a door to door salesperson.

00:14:32.660 And now I'm kind of in the dating marketplace.

00:14:34.160 I want to do something a little more elevated.

00:14:35.600 And so I discovered that I could probably transfer the direct selling skill to a different

00:14:40.020 product.

00:14:40.440 I chose suits and I started, you know, hitting up law firms and private equity firms and

00:14:43.780 banks and calling on people like you with, with Stanford MBAs.

00:14:47.400 Yeah.

00:14:47.560 Before we go further with that, cause I really want to get to that.

00:14:49.980 I also want to touch on a few of the sales strategies that you mentioned, cause I think

00:14:53.380 they're very useful for people to know about, cause there aren't a lot of places where

00:14:55.860 people can learn like useful cold email or sales strategies these days.

00:14:59.540 Something you mentioned within both of those, like the race-based joke and the joke around

00:15:04.480 Saddam Hussein, not like a joke, but like it's something you wouldn't normally hear in

00:15:08.240 both of those, you put in language or a comparison that is usually ex exclusive to non sales

00:15:15.920 environments.

00:15:16.600 Um, people do not cross those lines when doing typical sales environments.

00:15:22.360 So it categorizes you differently, like as a, like an actual engagement in the person's

00:15:28.460 head.

00:15:28.980 Another thing that you did that's very clever for people to learn from is switching nos to

00:15:33.900 yeses in which you say, you, you ask them a question and then you say, oh, because you

00:15:40.040 answered that way, let's book a meeting.

00:15:41.800 Right.

00:15:42.520 Whereas, you know, their answer is pretty incongruous with whether or not they would book a meeting

00:15:47.140 with you, but they said, no, I won't book a meeting.

00:15:50.180 Then you ask them something else.

00:15:52.180 And then really, regardless of whatever they answer to that, you can say, oh, okay, great.

00:15:56.560 Then let's book a meeting, which is really powerful in terms of moving the process forwards

00:16:01.520 and getting your foot in the door.

00:16:03.140 So when you first started thinking about what company you were going to like, try to direct

00:16:08.940 sell, can you talk about the brainstorming that went on there, the different types of

00:16:13.160 products you thought about how you landed on the product you landed on, et cetera?

00:16:17.920 Yeah.

00:16:18.260 So, so, and by the way, just to come back, I'll answer it.

00:16:20.360 I'm going to come back to your point about, you know, like pushing a boundary.

00:16:22.340 That's not normally part of the sales context.

00:16:24.740 That's extremely important.

00:16:26.080 There's a biologic, there's an evolutionary biology reason for it.

00:16:29.080 Like what, what, what you want to do is like, if we're being very polite with prospects,

00:16:33.660 because just for the sake of politeness or with women, they understand we're virtue signaling

00:16:37.460 because we want something.

00:16:38.860 But as a man to man, like if I'm talking to you and I make a little joke that sort of

00:16:43.760 crosses the line a little bit and we don't escalate to violence, I know you're cool.

00:16:47.720 And that's actually how men test each other.

00:16:49.160 This is why guys, when we compliment, it's like, oh, you douche, you fat piece of crap.

00:16:52.900 You know, the way guys compliment each other is actually insulting each other and not

00:16:56.340 escalating to violence.

00:16:57.200 And so we cross that boundary anyways, but.

00:16:59.220 Oh, sorry.

00:16:59.720 I gotta, I gotta tell a quick story here before you go further.

00:17:01.900 Was that after we had talked for a bit, cause we were talking for a bit when we were in

00:17:04.980 London, my wife was behind us and she goes, why was he like miming, punching you?

00:17:10.240 She goes, what was the context there?

00:17:12.100 But I think that that's the sort of thing that you're talking about there in terms of

00:17:15.640 like escalating friendship levels within male, male interactions in things that you can't

00:17:21.040 easily do with women.

00:17:22.540 But anyway, continue with what you were talking about.

00:17:24.440 And that might've been, that just emerged naturally.

00:17:26.160 I think we were just getting along pretty well, but, but, but yeah.

00:17:29.000 So what I was thinking is like, I wanted to be in sales for sure, because money was, you

00:17:32.700 know, because I am a salesman, let's put it this way.

00:17:35.120 Like money is at the top of my hierarchy of needs for my profession.

00:17:38.060 Like I don't want to be middle class.

00:17:39.260 We suffer too much as business owners and salespeople in order to make middle income money.

00:17:43.200 So it had to, it had to have like a lucrative thing to it.

00:17:46.300 I wanted a quick sales cycle.

00:17:47.660 That was important to me.

00:17:48.480 So even though I thought I was going to sell software, I realized that like waiting a year

00:17:51.660 and a half for an answer and going with 50 parties, wasn't what I wanted.

00:17:54.960 So I wanted a quick sales cycle so that I can start earning money.

00:17:57.800 One thing that was really important for me is I didn't want to go to any more school.

00:18:00.760 Like I did five years at university.

00:18:02.880 I did not want to go get an MBA or, you know, CFA or anything like that.

00:18:08.400 So I needed something I could sell right away that didn't need extra, extra qualifications.

00:18:12.440 Like I just, I was done with school, man.

00:18:13.900 I'd spend my whole, you know, I was 25.

00:18:15.520 I'd been in school my whole life.

00:18:16.460 Like, no thanks.

00:18:17.540 The other thing that was interesting is I had this delusional idea that maybe one day

00:18:21.260 I could grow an international company.

00:18:22.720 So I wanted to sell a product that wasn't regulated.

00:18:25.480 Like for example, insurance is very highly regulated depending on the country or even

00:18:29.680 state or province you live in or, you know, or financial investments.

00:18:33.340 Like I couldn't sell investments to somebody in Alberta and Canada and then go to Norway

00:18:37.300 and sell investments because there's different regulating bodies.

00:18:40.260 And suits just, it was just crazy.

00:18:41.760 Like, I don't know how it came about, but suits just match my criteria.

00:18:44.480 I'm like, oh, it's a quick sale.

00:18:46.260 Like I can make it right away.

00:18:47.720 I can sell it internationally.

00:18:49.940 And actually one other thing is I wanted to be selling to highly sophisticated people

00:18:53.600 because that was an ethical decision I had made.

00:18:55.960 And the reason I say that is when I started, when I got like better at selling encyclopedias

00:19:00.260 door to door, I realized very quickly that I can manipulate people that are, let's say

00:19:04.400 a certain, below a certain threshold of intelligence.

00:19:06.620 I could manipulate them with emotional selling.

00:19:08.320 I can get them emotionally vested in the product where I felt like taking their money was

00:19:12.060 manipulative.

00:19:12.580 I didn't want to be like that, but I never felt manipulative when I sold to people that

00:19:16.340 had, you know, PhDs and that ran banks.

00:19:18.440 Like those people, I never felt like I was manipulative because they're smarter than me.

00:19:22.260 So I wanted to sell to people smarter than me.

00:19:24.460 And suits, you know, it's like I'm wearing like a $12,000 cashmere, full cashmere suit right

00:19:28.580 now.

00:19:28.760 Like people that buy these kinds of products tend to have made it in life.

00:19:33.620 And so it gave me access to these people that I didn't feel manipulative over.

00:19:37.300 And also they were people that were CEOs and that ran banks and ran, you know, private

00:19:43.160 equity firms.

00:19:43.920 They had degrees from top universities.

00:19:45.720 That was my ticket into that table, right?

00:19:48.660 Can you talk about sourcing your original?

00:19:51.640 Because our listeners are going to be interested in thinking about starting their own companies

00:19:54.900 and everything like that.

00:19:55.700 First, I love everything that you've talked about so far.

00:19:58.640 So he was thinking about the audience that he was selling to.

00:20:01.400 Like he's like, I want to sell to this demographic.

00:20:04.480 What sort of things does this demographic buy that I could realistically sell to them?

00:20:09.360 Then he was also thinking about shipping, storage, everything like that.

00:20:13.620 Like that is really important if you have a company idea.

00:20:16.640 Suits do not like, they're not like a foodstuff or something like that, right?

00:20:19.960 So one, easy to ship between borders, but two, also easy to store.

00:20:24.160 Or although you probably wouldn't because most of them are going to be made more bespoke.

00:20:27.400 But both of those are very important things to know.

00:20:30.660 I was wondering how you thought about how you sourced your original distributor.

00:20:34.760 I didn't because I did it correctly.

00:20:36.340 See, people over plan and under execute.

00:20:38.760 I was all about execution.

00:20:39.840 The first day I went out, I had no fabrics.

00:20:41.740 I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally.

00:20:44.640 I had a home hardware order book.

00:20:46.380 I went into Blake's Law Firm in Alberta.

00:20:49.580 I was cold calling.

00:20:50.580 I had five meetings.

00:20:51.460 I ended up with six sales because on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the

00:20:55.460 elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom and they bought some stuff as well.

00:20:59.540 So I put up about $40,000 worth of orders my first week.

00:21:02.800 Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine.

00:21:05.760 Like, what kind of suit are you thinking?

00:21:06.560 Blue cow, make you blue.

00:21:07.480 Like, literally like that.

00:21:08.660 Yeah.

00:21:08.960 Because I could sell.

00:21:09.800 Because I had the other thing.

00:21:10.840 I don't care if somebody was sitting in their office and designing beautiful catalogs.

00:21:14.340 Good for them.

00:21:15.100 But I knew how to sell, right?

00:21:16.180 A really important story that's similar to this.

00:21:19.360 A lot of people might not know this, but the original big sale that made Microsoft the

00:21:23.180 company it is.

00:21:24.440 This is when he was selling the operating system to IBM or something, right?

00:21:28.520 Or DOS or something like that.

00:21:29.420 He was selling the operating system to, I want to say, IBM.

00:21:32.340 And he made the sale and he had not even begun to work on making this product.

00:21:37.160 He's like, yeah, we have this great product.

00:21:38.840 It fits everything you need.

00:21:40.120 He goes back to the office.

00:21:41.200 He's like, shit, I just sold a product.

00:21:42.860 We need to make it now.

00:21:43.840 And this falls into something that I think is really important for people when they're

00:21:47.340 thinking about starting a company is the concept of an MVP or a minimal viable product.

00:21:52.460 So this is what is the simplest iteration of your company that you can create to know

00:21:58.940 whether or not your company is viable.

00:22:00.760 And for you, that was a magazine that somebody else had printed with pictures that you were

00:22:07.460 selling suits out of because you knew if you can sell these suits for X price, then

00:22:11.720 you can go get them made and everything like that.

00:22:13.660 And that's the easier part.

00:22:15.440 The hardest part of every company is always the sales.

00:22:20.360 This is why a salesperson is usually the highest paid person at a company.

00:22:23.580 At our company, the highest paid people.

00:22:25.480 Most of our top sales team is paid more than my wife or I.

00:22:28.960 And it is because you don't have anything if you don't have good.

00:22:32.000 And this is true with marketing that actually works, right?

00:22:35.140 So if you can find a way to get your company, like suppose you were creating a different

00:22:39.120 iteration of this company and you're like, I want to sell suits online.

00:22:42.460 Well, what you could do is add a Facebook page, not like a Facebook page, but like Facebook

00:22:46.880 ads, a landing page that you created in WordPress and see if you can sell the product before

00:22:52.600 you figure out how to source the product.

00:22:54.620 And you can buy ads and see what it costs to get each sale and then expand from there if

00:22:59.240 you're able to do it viably.

00:23:00.580 But just a way to think about this from what he's saying.

00:23:03.080 But yeah, continue.

00:23:03.800 Well, that's the thing that most people avoid is to avoid selling the thing because people

00:23:07.840 have delusional ideas of starting a company, thing that they get to administrate and tell

00:23:11.840 people what to do.

00:23:12.640 And that's not what you do at all.

00:23:14.040 If you want to start a company, you got to do the stuff that actually brings the money,

00:23:17.200 period, because then there's no company without money.

00:23:19.020 You want to hire somebody, get money.

00:23:20.980 And some people are like, I'll go raise money.

00:23:22.580 It's like, well, who's stupid enough to give you money if you're not generating revenue,

00:23:25.680 right?

00:23:25.960 So and ironically, we have our own magazine.

00:23:28.400 This is one of our magazines.

00:23:29.620 Alice Cooper's on it.

00:23:30.820 You know, we got all sorts of cool stuff because now, you know, because now it's

00:23:33.800 now we're a fairly large enterprise.

00:23:36.080 But yeah, so I had I kind of was like, look, if I get people's credit cards and I even know

00:23:39.920 how to process credit cards at the time, then I was like, OK, I got all these people's

00:23:42.880 credit cards.

00:23:43.400 I have $40,000 of credit cards.

00:23:45.620 How do I like make?

00:23:46.440 So, you know, so what happened was I called up my bank.

00:23:48.400 I'm like, I need a credit card processor because I'm starting a company.

00:23:51.240 And the banker's like, OK, how much revenue do you think you'll do your first year selling

00:23:54.620 these suits?

00:23:55.060 I'm like, and I lowballed them so hard.

00:23:57.440 I was like, I don't know, 200,000.

00:23:58.720 We ended up doing 980,000 our first year.

00:24:01.040 And I was like, I don't know, 200,000.

00:24:03.040 I remember the banker lady laughed.

00:24:04.500 She's like, OK, maybe you need some experience running the company first.

00:24:06.820 So I ended up just using PayPal.

00:24:08.140 But it was super funny because like, you know, she didn't believe and I understand why she

00:24:12.160 didn't believe the company would even.

00:24:13.560 I'm like, I got 40,000 of orders my first day and she just thought I was lying.

00:24:17.120 But anyways, so I did that.

00:24:18.540 And then we ended up delivering the product.

00:24:19.980 The first iteration I flew to Asia the first time it was a terrible product.

00:24:23.620 It took me years to learn that, too, because keep in mind, like this is a really important

00:24:27.220 thing about like building a business, like in our industry, we are the highest-end suit

00:24:30.300 manufacturer on the planet, bar none, hands down.

00:24:32.420 Like we're competing with companies.

00:24:33.980 There's maybe five companies in the world today that are able to achieve anywhere near

00:24:38.300 the level that we're able to achieve because we ended up buying our own manufacturer in

00:24:41.240 the United Kingdom.

00:24:42.060 Like we're fully transparent on our website.

00:24:43.900 You can see your suits being made live.

00:24:45.680 Like we have the best machinery and everything.

00:24:47.900 But at the time, I was like, I just need a product.

00:24:49.860 And when you're building, you know, when you're in the commodity space, like for example,

00:24:53.640 suits, you're competing on price at first.

00:24:55.960 And if you want to break out the price competition, you have to build a brand and credibility in

00:24:59.420 the market.

00:24:59.860 And at that point, you need a product because, you know, if somebody buys a $5,000 suit from

00:25:04.120 you, a lot of times it's not the only $5,000 suit they're going to try.

00:25:07.660 Like the guy driving the Porsche, he's tried the BMW.

00:25:10.100 He's tried the Lexus.

00:25:11.460 He might have tried the Range Rover.

00:25:13.320 At that point, they're choosing between where they're going to put all their money for the

00:25:16.140 rest of their lives.

00:25:17.220 And you have to have a product that at least minimally meets the standards of the market and

00:25:21.520 hopefully far exceeds that, right?

00:25:23.120 But you're not thinking that way when you start because nobody, without a brand, without

00:25:26.940 market credibility, nobody's going to believe you that you tell them the product is great.

00:25:30.920 Like that's it.

00:25:31.540 It takes years and years and years of market trust to actually build a product that people

00:25:35.540 believe is great.

00:25:36.340 So, you know, by the time we got to, for example, Jordan Peterson, it wasn't like we'd

00:25:40.040 never made a suit before.

00:25:40.960 By the time we got Jordan Peterson, we had over 15,000 long-term clients buying from us for

00:25:45.560 over a decade, including like his brother, who was a client of ours already up in Regina.

00:25:50.140 So, so I just, I don't want people to jump steps here and think like, oh, I can start

00:25:54.040 something, say it's great people buy it.

00:25:55.400 No, they won't.

00:25:56.280 It's a much longer road to build credibility.

00:25:58.840 Yeah.

00:25:59.280 Well, and, and also product matters a lot here.

00:26:01.500 So something that's really great about suit sales is just logically, if you're selling

00:26:04.940 to somebody, you can be like, look, they're like, why would I buy from you versus a store?

00:26:08.820 And then you're like, think about the store.

00:26:10.140 Think about the overhead of that brand.

00:26:11.620 Think about how much of the money you're actually paying in there is going to branding storefront.

00:26:16.160 You know, if you're buying a suit from like a Brooks Brothers or something, like a store

00:26:19.700 that has places in Manhattan, you're paying for that.

00:26:23.800 Right.

00:26:24.200 And so you can say, that's where we get differential quality that they're not going to have.

00:26:28.820 Now, something you mentioned that is really important to think about when you're starting

00:26:31.560 a company, and this is the only thing in the suit industry where I'd say it's a less

00:26:35.780 than ideal company is recurring revenue is king.

00:26:39.700 Any product a person has to buy over and over and over again is a really useful product.

00:26:46.340 But with suits, you know, I'm sure you get recurring clients, but that's different from

00:26:51.180 recurring revenue, right?

00:26:52.760 80% of our revenue is recurring revenue.

00:26:54.960 Oh, really?

00:26:55.940 Yes.

00:26:56.140 That's incredible.

00:26:57.100 Yeah.

00:26:57.280 80% of our revenue is recurring revenue.

00:26:58.720 And this is actually something that I teach my company very much.

00:27:01.060 So there are two phases of wealth.

00:27:03.200 Okay.

00:27:03.640 This is actually something I was going to podcast myself for my studio here.

00:27:06.080 There's two phases of wealth.

00:27:07.020 There is, I'm hustling all the time, nonstop working wealth.

00:27:12.120 And there's, I'm chilling back and enjoying the money rolling in wealth.

00:27:15.840 Okay.

00:27:16.620 Yeah.

00:27:16.880 And people, people think that this is an argument of a business model.

00:27:19.840 Like with some business models, you get, you have to hustle with some, it's not a business

00:27:23.020 model argument.

00:27:23.640 It's a Rolodex argument.

00:27:25.320 Like I have clients that are in their thirties that are hustling their ass off, making money

00:27:29.640 buying suits, but our best clients are in their fifties and they don't work very hard.

00:27:33.420 But the difference is when you have a giant Rolodex of successful people who trust you

00:27:38.580 that you've built over the years, the money rolls in way easier.

00:27:41.800 I have a friend, I was in Dubai last week with my friend from London.

00:27:45.120 He's a lawyer at a very prestigious law firm.

00:27:47.540 And he's like, Dimitri, you know, something crazy is when Twitter goes public, every lawyer

00:27:51.340 is calling them like, Hey, can I take you public?

00:27:53.320 Because every lawyer wants to make $50 million.

00:27:55.600 He goes, but the guy that gets the deal is the guy that's been working with Twitter for

00:27:58.580 12 years.

00:27:59.120 When they first started 20 years, when they first started, he's not the relationship built.

00:28:03.720 So the guy that gets the deal is the guy with the Rolodex with the CEO of Twitter and his,

00:28:07.140 in his Rolodex, right in our business.

00:28:09.420 So this is very interesting.

00:28:10.780 And you might be, you might find this interesting, maybe not, but men are generally pretty loyal

00:28:14.440 to things that work.

00:28:16.600 Seriously.

00:28:17.120 Like even, even, even, even marriages, like it's what 20% of men are initiating divorces,

00:28:21.760 like 80% of women men are loyal to things that work.

00:28:24.360 Like when I tell my wife, I want to go for sushi.

00:28:26.520 I don't want to go for sushi.

00:28:27.700 I want to go to that restaurant.

00:28:28.740 We always go to, you know, this is true, right?

00:28:31.100 Yeah.

00:28:31.280 It's the same with clothing.

00:28:32.220 Like once a guy finds a pair of shoes, he likes like Nike, whatever, he'll buy that thing

00:28:36.680 20 times.

00:28:37.780 So for us, the reason we get recurring revenue is because our clients like us and trust us

00:28:42.480 because they know that it works.

00:28:43.940 They know they get the results they pay for with no surprises.

00:28:46.860 And it's not just suits.

00:28:47.980 Obviously, you know, you introduce complimentary products like shirts, like pants, whatever.

00:28:51.520 And guys just keep coming back over, over 80% of our revenue this year is recurring revenue.

00:28:56.540 Yeah.

00:28:57.160 Well, and so a few things when people are thinking about this as like a company idea.

00:29:00.520 So recurring revenue, if you can get that, that's really king, especially like tight recurring

00:29:05.620 revenue.

00:29:06.100 So tight recurring revenue would be like a SaaS product or something that they're paying

00:29:09.640 monthly for.

00:29:10.220 Now that's harder to do if you're doing something on your own.

00:29:12.800 What's really interesting about suits is it's bespoke enough that it makes sense that you

00:29:18.120 could sort of scale a company on it without a big industrial capacity.

00:29:21.160 But if you were doing something that's like more recurring, like razor heads or something

00:29:25.080 like that, you know, that's going to be very hard to compete with the largest players in

00:29:29.060 the space because there you're really competing on like machining, to be honest, which can

00:29:33.300 be difficult.

00:29:34.020 Now you can still do it if you can set up the right pathways and everything like that.

00:29:37.980 Another thing is...

00:29:38.740 But that's true for suits as well.

00:29:41.060 Like in order to manufacture the level that we do it at, like we literally have to buy out

00:29:45.060 our manufacturer.

00:29:45.700 But what I would outsell to young people is like, don't worry so much about the product.

00:29:50.540 Worry about selling it.

00:29:52.220 Exactly.

00:29:52.840 Like, man, look, we're at the level now.

00:29:54.580 You can license anything.

00:29:55.660 If you're talking about razor heads, great.

00:29:57.240 You can probably license something that's 98% as good as the best in the market and you'll

00:30:01.480 be just fine with it.

00:30:02.340 It's all about selling it.

00:30:03.680 It's about getting revenue.

00:30:05.500 Yeah.

00:30:05.680 Well, and another thing is, and you mentioned this before, but really think about this when

00:30:08.660 you are starting a company is geographically, how far can I sell this?

00:30:12.480 Like right now I'm working on helping a guy get a landscaping company off the ground.

00:30:15.200 It's a good industry, but you know, it is geographically limited while suits are not

00:30:19.540 geographically limited, but they are really based on a person's sales skills.

00:30:23.280 So another thing I'd recommend with sales skills is if you're like, I don't know how

00:30:27.020 good my sales skills are starting for a direct sales company, like the one that he does, because

00:30:33.020 he has a motivation to teach you how to sell.

00:30:36.320 Right.

00:30:36.940 And so you might find, oh, it's easy to make money selling for them or, you know, eventually

00:30:41.940 start your own thing, but it might just be easier if you're in a good niche.

00:30:45.300 As I've said, as CEOs, the top salespeople at our company out earn us as CEOs.

00:30:50.380 This is true at most companies.

00:30:53.080 And a lot of people don't realize that, which is why, why, why do we pay them more than we

00:30:57.600 make as CEOs?

00:30:58.480 So they don't go and start their own fucking companies.

00:31:00.880 Man, a hundred percent.

00:31:01.620 I had years, several years in the last years where top salespeople made more than me.

00:31:05.080 And that's amazing.

00:31:05.920 I'm so happy for them.

00:31:07.240 And what you said is true as well.

00:31:08.500 Like, so obviously, you know, there's a, there's a kind of a tired anecdote where the

00:31:12.460 CFO, the chief financial officer says, gee, what if we train our salespeople when they

00:31:17.260 leave?

00:31:17.740 And the chief executive officer says, what if we don't train our people when they stay?

00:31:21.460 So I tell my guys this, you work for me for two years.

00:31:24.440 I will teach you everything I know about how to direct sell and how to become very, very

00:31:27.640 good.

00:31:28.500 Not only will you make a bunch of money after two years, you'll have a Rolodex of several

00:31:31.820 hundred CEOs that are your clients.

00:31:33.940 And so worst case scenario, if I screw up as a leader, you have 200 CEOs that already spend

00:31:38.840 money with you.

00:31:39.380 They'll be dying to hire you.

00:31:40.700 And you'll have the skills to start your own thing.

00:31:43.080 And then the pressure is on me to make it really, really good for you to stay for a number

00:31:46.820 of reasons.

00:31:47.200 Right.

00:31:47.460 And I like that.

00:31:48.080 I like the competition because that's what grows me as a CEO to continue to provide an

00:31:52.000 environment for my people.

00:31:52.860 That's the most profitable, the most growth orientated, uh, and, and the most abundant

00:31:57.900 for them in order to thrive because I don't grow if I don't do my best.

00:32:01.160 That's the beauty of pre-market capitalism.

00:32:03.560 So here's the question I have for you, because this is always an interesting question to ask yourself

00:32:07.320 when you're starting a company like this or starting a Salesforce, which is like a whole

00:32:10.560 other thing is, do you give your, your sellers lead lists or do they generate their own lead

00:32:17.300 lists?

00:32:17.680 And if they generate their own lead lists, how do they do that?

00:32:20.180 Because as a company, this is one way that like we prevent or good companies often will

00:32:24.700 prevent their salespeople from leaving because they find the lead list for the salesperson

00:32:29.780 and, and just being able to sell without easy, large lead list generation can be a really

00:32:35.320 difficult thing to do.

00:32:36.720 Yeah.

00:32:36.900 So it's a combination.

00:32:37.800 So number one, yes, we definitely have, we definitely farm leads and we know how to do

00:32:42.500 that at a very high level, but also I want my salespeople to learn how to do it for themselves.

00:32:46.820 Like I said, I'm not afraid of people, let's say leaving and competing against me because

00:32:50.480 that just says that I've done something terribly wrong in the leadership, right?

00:32:53.880 Like ultimately our salespeople also need to know how to generate leads.

00:32:57.760 One of the things that we do and we teach how to do is we call it floating, which is literally

00:33:01.280 just stopping men on the streets and asking them about their suit.

00:33:03.740 And we do it every day.

00:33:05.160 Like I will just stop guys.

00:33:06.680 I'll go out for lunch and start, I'll be at Starbucks.

00:33:08.720 I see a guy and I said, well, Hey bro, that's a great suit.

00:33:10.400 He's like, Oh, thank you.

00:33:11.620 And I'm like, let me grab your card.

00:33:12.620 I'm a tailor.

00:33:13.080 I'll call you.

00:33:13.460 I'll introduce myself.

00:33:14.080 He's like, okay.

00:33:14.560 I got one of my biggest clients like that.

00:33:16.040 My very first week doing this ever, you know, I'll go into a building and I'll just ride

00:33:20.040 the elevator and I'll walk into offices.

00:33:21.940 I'm like, Hey, I see you guys have an office here.

00:33:23.840 I never heard.

00:33:24.360 What are you guys doing?

00:33:25.020 It's like, Oh, we're a mortgage agency.

00:33:26.120 Oh, cool.

00:33:26.380 Who's the CEO?

00:33:27.060 It's this guy.

00:33:28.000 My second day, I think it was ever selling suits was the craziest story.

00:33:32.260 I had got an appointment at a law firm.

00:33:34.480 I went in and I sold the guy.

00:33:35.720 And then I walked out of the law office.

00:33:37.080 There was another door on the floor.

00:33:38.380 It was in Vancouver.

00:33:38.880 I think it was Vancouver or Calgary.

00:33:40.720 I walk into the office and I go, what are you guys doing?

00:33:43.540 He's like, Oh, we do like subprime lending.

00:33:45.560 I'm like, great.

00:33:46.240 And who's the CEO?

00:33:47.020 And then it just so happened the CEO had heard me walk in.

00:33:49.980 He walks out as a three man firm.

00:33:52.100 He's like, what are you doing?

00:33:52.980 I'm like, I'm selling suits.

00:33:53.800 He's like, Oh, come talk to me.

00:33:54.740 He loved the fact that I just barged into his office to introduce myself on the spot.

00:33:59.240 He placed a $26,000 order, gave me his black Amex.

00:34:03.520 It was like one of those baller cards, you know, on the spot, 26 grand.

00:34:07.100 He just liked my chutzpah.

00:34:08.480 He liked my, my, my sort of, you know, pizzazz of walking into the office, being brave.

00:34:13.080 He's like, man, you remind me of myself, you know, blah, blah, blah.

00:34:16.300 So we teach how guys how to walk and girls how to walk into offices, make good introductions,

00:34:20.340 like really creating business from nothing is a core skill.

00:34:23.200 We teach our salespeople, but also keep in mind in our business, it's like this, you

00:34:27.080 can sell suits anywhere, but for $500.

00:34:29.860 But if you want to sell a suit for two, three, four, five, 10, 20 grand, which we sell, you

00:34:34.280 need a brand behind that, a really strong brand.

00:34:36.900 And so one of the things we offer our salespeople, like yesterday, one of our guys in Hong Kong

00:34:40.660 sold like an eight or $9,000 suit, one suit to one guy, eight, $9,000.

00:34:45.380 You can't do that with a random label on your suit for that.

00:34:48.180 We need credibility in the market.

00:34:49.920 And that's what our salespeople get is the credibility of what is today, one of the world's

00:34:54.060 most successful suit brands that is seen on, you know, in Hollywood movies, on celebrities

00:34:58.360 around the world, like our client base at our income level, they know what LGG is and they

00:35:02.440 know who we are.

00:35:03.260 So I want to, I want to double touch on one thing that you were saying, which I've often

00:35:07.380 seen in my life is when you do these more aggressive sales strategies that are aggressive,

00:35:12.240 but also understand how to not overstep people's boundaries, which is really important.

00:35:16.920 High level people typically recognize that and they respect that because that is the primary

00:35:22.100 way that high level people got to where they are.

00:35:24.260 There was an episode that we have been unable to air, which is on how to get laid because

00:35:28.240 the AI that I use to like scan our episodes said, you cannot post this, your channel will

00:35:32.220 get like banned.

00:35:33.820 But I would say that almost all of the core advice you're going to get from that, you could

00:35:38.780 also get from learning how to sell.

00:35:40.760 All of these techniques that he's talking about, like how to stop someone on the street

00:35:45.720 to build them at the potential lead, how to get into a specific environment where then

00:35:50.340 you can perform sales.

00:35:52.140 All of these are cross transferable skills with getting laid.

00:35:56.360 If you get really good at getting laid through like honest means, not like cheesy, you know,

00:36:01.400 overly optimized pickup artistry stuff, but like actual, just honest sales, because that's

00:36:07.320 what you are.

00:36:07.680 You're selling yourself to people.

00:36:08.860 You're learning how to generate leads and then sell yourself to people.

00:36:12.000 That skill will cross transfer to sales and vice versa, which means that if you want to

00:36:17.220 get really good at getting laid, you can do that by moving into these types of sales

00:36:20.280 positions.

00:36:21.280 To be transparent, that might be why I ended up in sales to begin with.

00:36:24.820 I was just probably very introverted.

00:36:27.080 I like books, but I wasn't good at like communication.

00:36:29.400 I think somebody showed me a picture like this was our company president's club trip.

00:36:33.100 And I saw girls in bikinis.

00:36:34.140 I'm like, wow, there's a trip with girls in bikinis and I can get on it if I sell a lot.

00:36:38.160 You know, that's probably, you know, that's probably the primal reason I was like, this

00:36:41.620 is great.

00:36:42.380 Yeah.

00:36:43.040 Another thing to note here is that every single stage, like the hardest parts of doing

00:36:47.500 a business are going to be sales processes that require the same skillset.

00:36:52.060 You want to raise venture capital funding for your company.

00:36:54.880 That is the exact skillset that you need to sell something like a suit.

00:36:58.520 And if you are shying away from that part of the starting a company, you are not going

00:37:04.020 to be able to do the VC raise.

00:37:06.140 You might be able to do a debt raise because bankers are a bit more bureaucratic and there's

00:37:09.380 other ways to do that.

00:37:10.620 But you know, it's, it's difficult.

00:37:12.160 The other thing to note is learning sales skills.

00:37:15.420 The problem with learning sales skills is you can really only do this at companies that were

00:37:19.420 founded by a salesperson.

00:37:20.820 And that is because good salespeople always have something better to do with their time

00:37:26.740 than teaching new salespeople.

00:37:28.920 This is one of the hardest things to do as a company is get your, your good salespeople

00:37:33.060 to train new salespeople.

00:37:34.220 They just won't do it.

00:37:35.540 Also, it directly cuts into their revenue.

00:37:37.760 Usually it cuts into their time.

00:37:39.320 It's a very difficult thing to do.

00:37:40.640 And that's another podcast right there.

00:37:42.760 How to do that is really, really intricate, but sorry.

00:37:44.980 You're you.

00:37:45.700 That's such a bullseye.

00:37:46.640 I'm shocked.

00:37:47.060 You know that, but it's a hundred percent.

00:37:48.200 Well, what we ended up doing, and you can tell me if this is a bad idea is we basically

00:37:52.320 give them a portion of any increased revenue that their training creates.

00:37:57.560 So if they're in charge of training someone, and then that person increases the revenue

00:38:01.320 that they're bringing in for something like three or four years, the person who handled

00:38:05.880 that would get a portion of that revenue.

00:38:07.760 Yeah.

00:38:07.940 That's one of the tactics we all simple.

00:38:09.560 That was one tactic.

00:38:10.720 The next tactic that we use is family-based systems.

00:38:13.920 And we've done enormously well with this.

00:38:15.580 This is just like a side strategy, but it's something that is probably useful for people

00:38:18.960 to know.

00:38:19.580 So what we do is we mostly hire from Latin America.

00:38:22.080 That's our like primary audience, which is culturally a bit different from America in

00:38:26.300 terms of the way things work.

00:38:27.720 One of the things that we switched to, and for us was one of the biggest boons our company

00:38:31.080 ever did, is we allowed people to hire family members to work for them.

00:38:35.020 And as soon as we did that, the level of sales transference, like knowledge of sales skills

00:38:41.020 exploded because these were often the people that these people were earning money to send

00:38:47.180 to anyway, right?

00:38:48.780 Now that they're just hiring these people, why not train them?

00:38:52.060 You are going to give them a portion of your money anyway, right?

00:38:55.680 That's a brilliant idea.

00:38:57.080 I just rolled that down.

00:38:59.200 Yeah.

00:38:59.380 It's great.

00:39:00.860 And if you expand to Latin America with sales cycles, I really encourage family-based systems.

00:39:07.220 And it's one of these things where like working from home, all of a sudden, everything like

00:39:11.280 efficiency, like increases dramatically and everything like that.

00:39:14.260 When you let people work the way they really want to, you will often find efficiency gains

00:39:19.040 from A players and efficiency decreases from C and D players.

00:39:23.240 A hundred percent correct.

00:39:24.260 And it's really funny you say that this is so cool to what I teach and what I do on a

00:39:28.760 day-to-day basis as CEO of our company is actually designing and implementing and being

00:39:34.580 very, very loyal to internal policies that specifically promote A players and force C players to leave

00:39:41.680 our company.

00:39:43.020 Yeah.

00:39:43.160 And I'm very open about it.

00:39:44.780 I'm like, I literally say like my mission as CEO is to eliminate equality in my company.

00:39:48.540 That's my mission, like eliminate equality because we're a sales company.

00:39:51.640 So it's like, we have two kinds of people in a sales company, those that make more money

00:39:55.220 than God and those who are barely keeping up and trying to keep their head above water.

00:39:58.900 And I'm like, if you're unable to keep your head above water, I want you to leave.

00:40:02.940 Yeah.

00:40:03.260 Like, I'm not going to help you.

00:40:04.180 I want you to leave.

00:40:04.980 I don't want you dragging down our salesperson's average income because top producers, when they

00:40:10.100 come in, they say, what's the average salesperson earning in your company?

00:40:13.460 I say, in our company, new grads are over six figures within 18 months on average.

00:40:18.960 18 months as they cross the six figure line and then they go, what are the top guys making?

00:40:22.900 And I can point them and say, well, you'll make over a million if you're a top guy in

00:40:25.520 our organization, right?

00:40:26.840 And so that's really interesting you say that because you're absolutely right.

00:40:29.720 I just had recruited a couple of guys from another sales company that are like top, top

00:40:33.460 performers.

00:40:34.240 And they literally were on a call together and they asked me, they're like, what would

00:40:38.440 you do in this situation?

00:40:39.480 They gave me a scenario where like a low producer and a high producer are competing for turf.

00:40:43.300 I'm like, why are you asking me?

00:40:44.320 I'll just fire the low producer.

00:40:45.600 I'm not even going to deal with them.

00:40:46.540 And they're like, thank you, because in their last company, there was so much bureaucracy

00:40:49.660 where they, as the top two salespeople in the company had to fight with low producers

00:40:53.720 for turf to keep it equal.

00:40:54.900 I'm like, no, I'm on a mission.

00:40:56.660 I don't want equality.

00:40:57.520 I want maximization.

00:40:58.600 I want ultimate maximization at the highest level.

00:41:01.320 Yeah.

00:41:01.580 Well, and something I know with a company like his, or with a lot of companies like this,

00:41:05.520 to be this type of a salesperson is like a really tough skill to develop, to get to

00:41:10.640 the level where you're getting in the door.

00:41:11.740 And so you might say, how do I develop this skill?

00:41:13.780 Like, how do I develop like prodromal sales skills, like, like before entering a sales

00:41:17.480 market, like before getting people to have sex with me or something like that.

00:41:21.340 Right.

00:41:21.540 Like, how do I do that?

00:41:23.560 The real key is learn how to make friends at scale.

00:41:28.340 And people might be like, what the fuck do you mean?

00:41:30.580 Learn how to make friends at scale without trying to sell to someone without trying to

00:41:35.260 get them to sleep with you.

00:41:36.220 Can you stop people at a mall or on a street and make friends with them, like get their

00:41:42.080 phone number and get follow-up.

00:41:43.720 If you develop this skill, this is stage one to all of these other skills, but it's a very,

00:41:50.740 you know, it's a very difficult stage one for a lot of people because they're not used

00:41:54.040 to actually bringing something.

00:41:55.600 And the other thing to note is you, you've got to do this without looking like you're going

00:41:58.920 through a manic episode, which is what some people do.

00:42:01.840 Like it's more than just being able to go up and talk to someone and engage them.

00:42:06.060 You need to be able to go up and talk to someone while also being, you know, self-demeaning and

00:42:11.580 jocular enough that you, you don't look like somebody who's having a mental breakdown that

00:42:16.400 you look like this is a natural engagement.

00:42:18.880 And, and there's all sorts of like, you will develop lines.

00:42:21.820 Like as you begin to do this, like maybe like, look, I'm new in town.

00:42:26.440 I had no idea it was going to be this hard to meet people locally, but I'm trying this

00:42:30.720 thing where I go out and I say hi to people.

00:42:32.540 Like, are you up for chatting for a bit?

00:42:34.580 Right.

00:42:35.100 And most people might say, no, some people would say yes, but little lines like that can

00:42:38.720 help you break the ice.

00:42:39.920 If you're attempting this strategy.

00:42:41.780 It's a great lesson.

00:42:42.820 You just gained so much credibility with me because that's, first of all, that's exactly

00:42:46.840 how I started as I made a commitment for myself that if I'm out like waiting in line

00:42:51.340 for something, going into a mall, a mall elevator, my goal is I'm going to talk to every stranger

00:42:56.320 like period.

00:42:56.900 And, and then started just saying a compliment, like, Hey man, those are awesome shoes or

00:43:00.900 like saying to a girl, Hey, great hair, you know, just whatever it could be coming off

00:43:04.640 as bad and creepy at the beginning, because I'm just trying to build my confidence and

00:43:08.620 being able to start interactions.

00:43:09.740 Like that's actually something I did very consciously to the point where it's now for

00:43:13.120 me, at least it's a superpower.

00:43:14.700 Like, and if you saw me at arc, you know, I was with a group of like politicians.

00:43:18.440 They're pretty high level guys that people know and a couple of famous actor types that

00:43:22.420 were there.

00:43:22.760 And they're like, Oh, we can't get into the, you know, the, the big thing that Peterson's

00:43:28.060 doing tonight, 12,000 people at the O2.

00:43:29.920 I'm like, I'll get us in.

00:43:30.920 Like, how are you going to do it?

00:43:31.640 I'm like, let's just show up and I'm going to talk to, and I showed up and I'm talking

00:43:34.720 to all the people I met.

00:43:35.560 We ended up not only getting front row tickets, we actually backstage access afterwards

00:43:39.440 to hang out with all the speakers that were on stage.

00:43:42.200 And a lot of it was like, I know that I've developed a superpower.

00:43:44.720 Like I will talk to the waiter of the restaurant.

00:43:47.280 I will talk to the, to the maitre d' of the restaurant.

00:43:49.600 I will make a connection.

00:43:50.860 I'll start connecting the dots.

00:43:52.040 I'll introduce them to people.

00:43:53.280 And eventually I remember one of the guys that came to our key was like, dude, that was

00:43:57.080 crazy.

00:43:57.440 He's like, you literally, like the first night I ended up having dinner with one of the

00:44:01.000 speakers.

00:44:01.300 The next night I had dinner with a different speaker.

00:44:02.960 Like, how do you do this?

00:44:03.800 I'm like, I just make sure that I talk to everybody.

00:44:06.240 Like I met you at the conference cause you, you were walking around.

00:44:08.540 Hey, let's talk for a second.

00:44:09.480 You know?

00:44:10.280 And, and I got a Rolodex from that.

00:44:12.160 And like I said, you know, the podcast with it, you and I did one before.

00:44:15.260 It's like the most valuable thing you have in life when you get older is the Rolodex.

00:44:19.100 It's who can you call?

00:44:19.900 That is the most valuable thing you can have.

00:44:21.860 Yeah.

00:44:22.120 So a lot of people they'll hear this and they'll be like, yeah, but I'm not an extrovert.

00:44:26.540 I can't do this.

00:44:27.580 Let me tell you a little secret.

00:44:29.120 Most of the people who are best at doing this are extreme introverts.

00:44:33.660 The reason they get good at doing this is because they do not naturally make friends.

00:44:38.720 And so they have to force themselves to learn how to make friends in the most clinical sociopathic

00:44:45.700 manner possible where they're like, okay, this is step one in engaging people.

00:44:49.600 I can't leave this party unless I've talked to at least five people because they would

00:44:54.160 just leave the party without talking to anyone because that's what they want to do.

00:44:57.560 You know?

00:44:58.160 And I think that this is a really important thing.

00:45:00.460 It's all of these reasons that a person might be telling themselves, I can't begin to try

00:45:03.960 this, they're, they're lies.

00:45:06.900 They're mostly lies.

00:45:07.900 They're actually the reasons why, I don't know.

00:45:09.560 Do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

00:45:11.280 So I certainly don't consider myself a natural.

00:45:13.560 And I'll say this.

00:45:14.340 I've said, I've said this to a lot of people.

00:45:15.660 Like I remember I got into Gene Simmons house last month and ended up measuring some, you

00:45:19.640 know, backstreet voice pursuits.

00:45:20.860 And people were like, at the party, they're like, dude, you know, everybody, how'd you get

00:45:24.460 in here?

00:45:24.720 There was an 18 year old kid there.

00:45:26.380 And he's like, I don't know what I'm doing at this party.

00:45:28.300 You know, my boss brought me, but you know, everybody, you know, it's amazing.

00:45:31.300 I'm like, dude, I don't know anybody here.

00:45:32.500 He's just like, what?

00:45:33.960 Literally, I told him, I'm like, you're 18, right?

00:45:36.360 I'm like, listen to me and listen to me carefully, young man.

00:45:39.420 Everything you're seeing me do out here is 100% intentional.

00:45:42.180 I've practiced this for years.

00:45:43.440 I'm intentionally doing it.

00:45:45.180 And so I would not consider myself an extrovert.

00:45:47.600 I certainly would not consider myself a natural, but I'll beat any natural because a natural,

00:45:51.960 you know, it's like, if you were good with the girls in high school or university, like

00:45:55.400 by the time that I started iterating and trying to, you know, understand how to gamify

00:45:59.940 the system, I'm married for over 10 years.

00:46:01.940 We got four kids.

00:46:02.520 It's not like, you know, it's not like I had sociopathic outcomes in mind.

00:46:06.200 My outcomes were to maximize my potential to get to marry the woman I want to marry and

00:46:09.760 have kids that, you know, that I want to have, not have to settle, for example.

00:46:13.540 Same with my financial other stuff in my career.

00:46:15.860 But like, it was so intentional that I knew that if you're a natural, I will destroy you

00:46:20.660 and you won't understand what's happening because I'll start to understand.

00:46:23.400 And it's like, you know, there's very gregarious, extroverted people who go into sales thinking

00:46:27.460 they'll be the best salespeople.

00:46:28.860 After a couple of years, I creamed, I destroyed those people.

00:46:31.920 And they're like, how do you do it?

00:46:33.180 And it's like, I'm like, because you're just operating on your intuition, but I'm operating

00:46:37.260 on iteration and intuition.

00:46:38.520 So I'm basically running like an AI mechanism here.

00:46:41.020 Oh, absolutely.

00:46:41.720 And I think a key thing that a lot of these people miss is being a good salesperson does

00:46:45.860 not mean like always.

00:46:47.880 Now, some people, there's different ways you can optimize yourself.

00:46:50.200 Does not mean looking like a giga chad.

00:46:52.540 Does not mean acting like you're stereotypical, like frat bro, like charisma person.

00:46:59.960 High charisma can look like autism when it's performed well.

00:47:05.060 So you want to talk about like great sales recently?

00:47:07.220 Elizabeth Holmes, amazing salesperson.

00:47:09.180 She had no fucking product and she sold it to the wealthiest men in the world, raising

00:47:14.460 all this venture capital money.

00:47:16.300 And she did that.

00:47:17.300 If you look at her, she's very, stuff like that.

00:47:21.520 Then you'll see this, like, if you meet a venture capitalist, people be like, well,

00:47:24.260 venture capitalists, like they're all so, you know, spectrum-y, they must have horrible

00:47:27.880 sales skills.

00:47:28.740 Everything about being a venture capitalist is sales.

00:47:30.720 You're either raising money from LPs, which is selling, or you are trying to get into deals,

00:47:35.260 which you really have no business getting into because you, you know, you, you've got to

00:47:38.940 get into only the best deals.

00:47:40.440 That's how you make it.

00:47:41.180 And everybody often knows what the best deals are.

00:47:43.620 Same with private equity, all sales.

00:47:45.360 So all of these jobs that a lot of people associate with like ASPE personality types,

00:47:49.500 they actually are just optimized for sales within their field.

00:47:54.940 100%.

00:47:55.260 That's true for everything.

00:47:56.280 We literally have this call in our company all the time.

00:47:58.060 The best lawyers are the ones that are the best brain makers.

00:48:00.300 They're able to bring clients in, right?

00:48:01.560 But the main thing I think you're trying to purvey, and I want to, I want to second that

00:48:06.480 is that you can learn how to be an amazing salesperson and a great networker.

00:48:11.120 You can learn how to make friends.

00:48:12.220 Like, I remember if I saw this at 18, I wouldn't have believed this because I got into it in

00:48:16.240 my early twenties, but like, you can learn this.

00:48:18.100 You can learn how to be attractive to women.

00:48:20.560 You can learn how to be attractive to clients.

00:48:23.080 You can learn it.

00:48:23.900 Like it's a skill.

00:48:25.120 It's your, you can be born at a certain level, but you can learn it.

00:48:27.840 Yeah.

00:48:28.500 And what's fucked up is it's all the same skill.

00:48:31.100 It's like the most important skill and they do not teach it to you anywhere.

00:48:36.460 Yeah.

00:48:36.880 But you know why they don't teach it?

00:48:37.900 This is actually really interesting is because schools are natural.

00:48:40.540 So think about who a teacher is, right?

00:48:42.020 So, you know, there's differences in testosterone that are predicted by the profession.

00:48:47.160 So testosterone can predict the profession you go into.

00:48:49.480 Entrepreneurs have the highest levels of testosterone.

00:48:52.000 The lowest are teachers.

00:48:53.280 And it makes sense.

00:48:53.960 Why?

00:48:54.100 Because, you know, like testosterone is associated connected to risk seeking.

00:48:57.140 Who's a lower risk seeker than somebody that grew up in a school and then professionally

00:49:02.020 went back to school and then teaching at the same school?

00:49:04.820 So teachers can't teach you this stuff because they don't have the risk seeking appetite.

00:49:08.900 They're security seekers.

00:49:10.280 They're low T people.

00:49:11.260 It just is what it is.

00:49:12.560 And they're not going to teach you how to optimize for risk.

00:49:14.900 They're going to teach you how to minimize risk.

00:49:16.400 But we want to optimize, not minimize.

00:49:18.360 Well, it's true.

00:49:19.720 Another thing I say is there's a filter happening here.

00:49:21.700 If you know a lot about starting companies, but like you haven't started a company, then

00:49:26.460 you're a great candidate for a teacher.

00:49:28.220 If you know a lot about starting companies and you've started a company, well, then you're

00:49:31.880 sort of not going to be a teacher, right?

00:49:34.120 Right.

00:49:35.040 And this is one of the things that top business schools, which is why the top business schools

00:49:38.480 are typically so far above the next year business schools, is they typically will only

00:49:43.260 employ people who have actually run large companies before or made it into those positions,

00:49:47.820 which means that they need to be compensated really well because they're used to these

00:49:51.660 large, anyway, or compensated in who they're interacting with, like mental stimulation.

00:49:55.780 But I don't want to go too far here.

00:49:57.880 This has been an amazing show.

00:49:59.420 This might be like the most useful show in how to get rich, even more than the how to

00:50:04.040 get rich show.

00:50:04.960 So I really enjoyed this.

00:50:06.100 And I think that this will make a difference for a lot of people.

00:50:08.560 Could you talk a bit about your company and people were interested in reaching out about

00:50:11.940 that?

00:50:12.680 Yeah.

00:50:13.100 LGMG.

00:50:13.620 It just stands for low, good, feel good.

00:50:15.120 LGMG.com is our website.

00:50:16.860 LGMG.com.

00:50:19.160 We're selling, retailing high-end bespoke suits on a direct sales model across 26 countries

00:50:24.060 around the world, all the way from Canada out to China.

00:50:26.960 I mean, we're literally all over the world.

00:50:29.020 And when we're hiring, we're primarily targeting younger recruits that are starting their career

00:50:34.280 in sales that want to learn some of the skills we talk about, how to sell, how to close deals,

00:50:38.080 how to make money.

00:50:39.020 That's what we teach here.

00:50:40.240 And we're really good at it.

00:50:41.580 And very, very proudly so working with top-level celebrities, top-level clientele.

00:50:46.000 We are quite well-established in our industry.

00:50:48.740 Yeah.

00:50:49.420 Well, and that can help you get in the door with sales.

00:50:51.720 Like, oh, look, this person, you know, they, yeah.

00:50:53.860 Well, anyway, I, and show tribal affiliation.

00:50:56.960 If you judge correctly, tribal affiliation, like, oh, the Jordan Peterson thing, and someone's

00:51:01.400 a Jordan Peterson fan, you know, you can, you can get through barriers.

00:51:04.580 But anyway, I will keep talking forever.

00:51:06.440 We keep doing this.

00:51:06.940 This has been fantastic.

00:51:08.680 And I had a great time chatting with you.

00:51:11.820 Likewise.

00:51:12.820 Cheers.

00:51:13.780 Hold on.

Based Camp - November 23, 2023

How to Start a Company with Dimitry Toukhcher

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript