Indians Run 7-Elevens; Vietnamese Run Nail Salons... WHY？!
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the idea of Non-linear ethnic niches and how they can be created in order to create a better world. We also talk about a new game we're playing called Ethnoguessr, a game where you try to become a better at judging other people.
Transcript
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Hello, Malcolm. I'm so excited to be talking with you today, especially because I just learned about
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this thing. It's really weird. From Arctotherium, he writes, did you know that Chaldeans own 90%
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of the grocery stores in Detroit? 40% of the truck drivers in California are Sikh and about a third
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of US Sikhs are truck drivers? And that 95% of Dunkin' Donut stores in Chicago in the Midwest
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are owned by Indians, mostly Gujarati Patels? Welcome to your official working day headquarters.
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I've hidden a snake somewhere in the store. The first one to whack it gets a free squishy.
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Oh, I should have put more thought into my promotion. And then in New England and New York,
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60% of Dunkin' Donuts are operated by Portuguese immigrants. 90% of the liquor stores in Baltimore
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are owned by Koreans. And all of these are apparently what Arctotherium calls and other
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people, other people's had called nonlinear ethnic niches. And that like, these are these weird
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industries that are dominated by ethnic groups, but not like, because obviously those ethnic groups
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should dominate them. No, I think it is obvious. I think that they were just bred. I think Indians are
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bred to run convenience stores. It's an entire country breeding experiment to create the perfect
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convenience store owner. I'm going to put like an Apu thing here.
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Well, no, liquor stores in Koreans, there are more like Cambodian donut shops. Why Cambodians and
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donuts? There is no, and like, by the way, in all the research on nonlinear ethnic niches,
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they remove all the ones that should be considered obvious, like Chinese people and like Chinese
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restaurants. Cause obviously like, duh, of course they would maybe dominate that. Although I feel
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like actually they don't. So you might like, aren't Chinese restaurants mostly like Korean run or
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something? They're mostly run by Koreans. Yeah. Or Mexicans. I feel like I've seen more in Mexicans
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running. No, no, no. It's mostly Koreans because white people can't tell the difference. And so they're
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like, oh yeah, this makes sense. It just seems authentic. Yeah. But no, they've actually parsed this out.
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And here's the thing. Okay. Arctotherium who introduced me to this concept and we've done
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some podcasts and other essays he's written. He's, he's, he's fun in that he's spicy takes.
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We don't necessarily agree with all of them, but they're quite interesting. He thinks they're
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terrible. And I think they're freaking awesome. Okay. Okay. Go explain. The regression of everything
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that we've ever done as society. And I'm like, this is exactly what we need right now. You want to
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create some sort of like ethnic carve out for my family. I want to make a nonlinear ethnic
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niche. I want to engineer one. And so what I want to do with this episode is I want to walk
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you through some of the examples here that Arctotherium describes. Cause it's one, this
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is just super interesting. I, I like, I guess we've, we've kind of seen it, but I never really
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thought about it. Cause you know, I don't see race, Malcolm. I don't, I don't know. I didn't
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know. Yeah. I only, I only see race. That is the only thing I use to judge people. It's just
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race. Just like Jack Donaghy just sees numbers on top of people's head. If everyone could see the
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world the way I see it, it would be a better place to live. I bet that's true, Tracy.
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But I guess I just see the world the way I see it.
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Is he letting me keep this? I think so. I wish I was there so I could play with it.
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You just see like their, their race. Have you played Ethnoguessr? This is a little off topic.
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No. What? What is Ethnoguessr? Oh God. We shouldn't go into it too much.
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No, you like this new game where you see men and women, I think composite faces and
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you're supposed to like choose. Razeeb would be really good at this. He can like.
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No, he is. Like he, yeah, no. He obviously is going to be like the world-class Ethnoguessr
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winner. But like now everyone can try to become like Razeeb Khan.
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Get better at judging people's ethnicities upon sight.
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Yeah. He's, he's, he's insanely good. I don't know how he does it. But anyway, now you can become
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good at that too through the game Ethnoguessr. But anyway, yeah, I don't see the world like that.
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I just see, I just see like the number of actions that I might need to complete to end an interaction
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with someone and get away. I think that's probably how I see the world. Anyway, though, I want to walk
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you through some of his examples. Then I want to walk, walk you through the, the unifying elements,
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like how these form, because what these, we, these niches are, are essentially like industries that
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come to be owned by a group of people that thereby create high barriers to entry and have a distinct
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advantage in an industry. And while Arctotherium thinks these are awful in a post-demographic
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collapse, post AI world, where we end up with techno feudalism, this could be the thing that saves your
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people. You know what I mean? Like you want to own an industry and he's just assuming that we're
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going to like continue with globalism, that we're going to continue with open markets. And I don't
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think we can depend on that. So I'm like, all right. I mean, he's like, oh, it's like this
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horrible caste system. And I'm like, I mean, yeah, but if the shoe fits, wear it, right? Like this is
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what we're headed towards. You are for ethno caste systems. No, I'm not for it. But like, if that's
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what we're headed to, wouldn't you rather make sure you're in a good group? Surely he has some
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hypothesis here. Okay. Yeah. So let's, let's, let's just to quote him and why he thinks they're bad.
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He says non-linear ethnic niches are harbingers of the reversal of centuries of social progress
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toward interpersonal cooperation and economic progress toward larger, more homogenous and
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better integrated markets. I don't know if I'd like homogenous markets, but anyway, they are super
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interesting. So he quoted, and he didn't come up with this concept and in 1999 and New York times
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article, they are defined as a certain ethnic group becomes entrenched in a clearly identifiable
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economic sector working at jobs for which it has no evident cultural, geographical, or even racial
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affinity. Again, like Cambodians and donut shops. He starts with this example that actually Albanians
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own cocaine smuggling in the UK. Like it's an issue with like, why did they, you know?
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Yeah. He gave all the examples that I cited above. And then he goes into a couple of case studies,
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which is interesting. He talks about Cambodian donut shops, which is interesting. He talks about
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Patel motels. Go into it. What, what about them?
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Yeah. Okay. I can, if you want to, it's, it's, it's, it's actually so interesting. He says Cambodians
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run about 80% of the donut shops in Southern California. Cambodians, just to give you perspective,
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are 0.17% of the population in California. 80% of donut shops, right? Okay. Yes. This is
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don't like, so he sees that and he's like, Oh, end of society. And I'm like,
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how do I get that percentage? What next? What next? The Cambodian donut empire got its start with
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refugee Ted Goy, who first learned the trade thanks to an affirmative action program to increase
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minority hiring at Winchel's donuts. The Cambodians were able to totally dominate this traditional
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American culinary sector through a mix of extended family credit and the use of dong tines and informal
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lending club. So basically he explains it like, because they gave each other cheap credit and we're
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sort of like in with each other, they were able to take over this industry. Now Patel motels,
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Gujaratis mostly with the surname Patel run an estimated 42% of hotels and motels in the United
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States. I just like, that is so mind-blowing. This is a huge industry. 42% are run by Gujaratis.
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What are Gujaratis? I think Gujaratis are a subset of the Indian population. Let's look it up.
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Gujaratis is a state of India. So it's like saying Californians, I guess, you know?
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Yeah. Just again, for like perspective, Gujaratis are about 0.3% of the U.S. population.
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Yeah. 42% of hotels, 0.3% of the U.S. population. And he writes, and this number was much lower back
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in 1999 when this phenomenon was first noticed. This rises to 80 to 90% of motels in small-town
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America. The Patel motel cartel, oh, sweet, sweet Arctotherium. I love that. Got its start
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with an illegal immigrant, Kanjabai Desai, in the 1940s. So this goes way back. The initial
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attraction to Patels was that motel ownership did not require English proficiency. As is with the
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Cambodians, Patel motel owners were able to use informal ethnic loan networks and
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immigrant family labor brought in via family reunification from India to undercut their
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American competitors. See this? This is something I can play with. And now Patel's labor. We can do
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that too. Yeah. And we're going to go through it. I have a whole plan. All right. Patels now
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totally dominate the hospitality industry in the U.S. outside of being chains, Patel writes. So now
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let's go to Vietnamese nail salons, which are such a thing, apparently. Over half of the nail
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salons in the United States, Arctotherium rights, are run by Vietnamese, which rises to
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more than 80% in California, whereas Vietnamese people are 0.7% of the U.S. population.
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As soon as I walk in, they greet me right away. Hi, honey, what you need to do? Oh, um, can
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I get my nails done? Okay, honey, do you lie pedicure too? Again, like this is just so mouthwatering.
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Like as people who've worked in private equity and VC, this concept of like that kind of level
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of market domination, mind-blowing, mind-blowing. Like no one would ever even like propose that.
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Like I could take over this much of the market, but you can with the right, with the right tools.
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Just like the Patels and the Cambodians, Arctotherium rights, Vietnamese immigrants were able to finance
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nail salons more easily than American competitors because they had access to below market credit from
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family and friends. Pro-immigration conservatives often celebrate the small business ownership
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characteristics of non-linear ethnic niches as a route to assimilation, but that's backwards.
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As with the Patels, Vietnamese refugees were attracted to nail salons because they didn't
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require English proficiency. In fact, this enabled ethnic separation from America.
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And I see his point here, like that kind of sucks. He also points out though later in his essay
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that this phenomenon actually diffuses a couple generations in. So this mostly is kind of stuck
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to first-generation immigrants. And then once these people have kids, the kids don't want to do it
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anymore. And I think that that's, you know, so like his arguments around assimilation, I'm not
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too concerned about. Well, it appears to me to be because they are running these companies in ways
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that is strictly worse as a lifestyle than just getting a normal job. And this is, you know, obviously
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Simone and I work with a lot of immigrant families. We've worked in other countries a lot, Japan, Korea,
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Peru. And, you know, so I've talked with particularly Korean immigrants who went into these types of
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industries, like the restaurant industry. And what they said is they're like, look, it's not like it's
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a better job to be running a restaurant. It's actually pretty risky. It's pretty long hours.
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Lifestyle. It's pretty tough. They're like, but because of my language skills, I couldn't get
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hired at any English speaking restaurant. Yeah. Like who else is going to hire me? Yeah. Or give
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me autonomy. And they're like, well, and they're like, well, no, no, no. A lot of them, they came in
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and they were like doctors and stuff. And they're like, I couldn't get hired because of my language
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skills as a doctor. So what I had to do was start my own company. And I knew a lot of people in this
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industry. So I started in this industry. Well, and so what, what Arctotherium points out happens
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here is what the characteristics of the niches entered is they are low prestige, but they offer
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high social mobility. So no one else wants to take them on. And they have typically like sort of a cap
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to market size. Like you can't get too big in them. So like big investors aren't throwing in money
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because kind of like you see with like mail salons, hotels, donut shops. Like, yeah, you're,
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it's, it's really hard to grow super big in that, unless you have a big chain and you need tons of
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financing. So they go in, but it still enables them. You know, if you work at a restaurant and
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you're not, it's like renting, you know, you're not putting equity into anything. If you own the
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restaurant, you will get that equity over time. So that's those three characteristics, small-ish
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market, very not, not romantic, not, not ideal. Like no one wants to work there and still it offers
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upward mobility. So here's the, the, I tried to make a list going through various cases and
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observations that he threw in. Cause he has a lot of citations in this. I do recommend reading his
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article, his sub stick article on this subject, but here's why they form one labor arbitrage from
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first generation immigrants, where they sort of access lower cost labor from abroad is big. Cause
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they're able to hire, like, you know, we have to hire people who speak fluent English in addition
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to Spanish, right? They just need to hire someone who speaks Vietnamese or Cambodian or whatever.
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Right. Also first generation immigrants are willing to do higher hard work that second gens and native
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borns just aren't. So you're also able to hire people who are genuinely hungry. And I think,
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especially, so when you look at all these bougie people going into food service and making like
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crumble cookie or like all this, like I worked in food service at a cupcake shop owned by two wealthy
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Canadian women. And they just hired a bunch of like entitled university students. And it was,
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it, you know, the turnover was really high. The students didn't work that hard. They didn't do a
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very good job. Like it's, I think when you, when you hire native born Americans or even, yeah, like
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you're just not going to get that quality of labor and like immigrants are hungry, especially if they
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don't have other options. Then the micro micro loans, like he kept pointing out, like all of these,
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these groups were basically providing below market credit and loans and liquidity that you just
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wouldn't get from a bank, even like an SBA loan. And so there's something about the access to capital
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here. That's really giving these businesses a leg up when other people, what it is, is access to
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capital within industries that these traditional capital sources aren't willing to invest. Yeah.
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Yeah. You're like a bank loan to start like a nail salon. You're going to struggle to get a bank loan
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to start, you know, a motel in a small town America. Cause they're going to be like, where's
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the demand? How would I, you know, where are the, the, the assets that are going to continue to have
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value. And yet the people within the industry are, are really well positioned to determine if
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someone's worthy of a loan because you get, you know, personal references, like their cousin who grew
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up with them. Also like you understand the industry because you're in it. So you know it.
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And so, I mean, there's really something very smart about understanding an industry and you
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being the one to provide the financing because we've, we've gone through the process of having
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banks to do diligence on us to loan money to our businesses. And they like, just totally don't
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understand the business and their key bets on our loan payback are based on the stupidest things.
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And they think that it's like smart and they're like, Oh good. Like based on our calculations,
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everything's going to be okay. And we're like, yeah, you think that like, you really should be
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looking at this thing over here and you're not, and that's incredibly dumb, but we're not going to say
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anything. So I think it's really smart. Then there's of course, like even more informal things
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like equipment loans and access. Like, you know, if you all own seven 11s and someone's slushy machine
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breaks, like you could, you know, if they, they, he quoted someone in his article about how, like
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you can just get, you know, a solution really quickly. If you need a machine fixed, you get the
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machine fixed. You know, you're not depending. It very much like the whole issue of the atomization of
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the family where now you have to like pay a babysitter and like find, you know, find someone,
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you pay someone to do everything. And they're not necessarily motivated to help you. And they're
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like, ah, I don't know. Like, I don't feel like it's, I can't come out. Like you have people who
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will be there for you because they are your cousin or they're your uncle, or they know that they need
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your help too. And so it really is a community in that kind of corporate family way that also we
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really appreciate. Speaking of corporate family, you also get informal employment. Now, sometimes this is
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like very not okay, not legal. It sounds like what it is, is it's a few people somewhat profiting
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off of a lot of people working in the types of jobs that wouldn't, you wouldn't legally have in
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America. Yeah. Or like, like literally they're undocumented, illegal immigrants kind of doing
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indentured servitude slash slave labor for you. Like that's, that's the bad end of it. But then the better
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end of it is, is family labor where like, you know, your kids are helping out, et cetera. And like, to a
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certain extent, this can lead to some like tax avoidance or wage minimizing. So that's, that's
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big. It, you know, it enables you to be very lean in terms of your costs while also really supporting
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an extended family. Plus in terms of, of team members, you have much easier vetting of good
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match employees. Like you have family references, people vouching for others. And we know this from a
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firsthand standpoint, because we've, we've seen the value in hiring siblings and cousins of our
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existing employees when they get referred, like they just work so much harder and trust. Like we go
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through the normal vetting process. We do open hiring. We, we put ads in papers, we put ads on
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indeed and on LinkedIn, and we interview hundreds of people and we hire across the board, the most
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qualified people, but the people who have stayed and who have done the best and performed the best
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fricking family. Cause there's the dual thing of like, yeah, we, we've leaned into just hiring
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through family networks. It's amazing. It's, it's, it's one of the best source of referrals
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because there's, there's two elements of it. One, you have the pressure of the person who referred
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them. Who's like, don't screw up. This is my reputation and my job. And then the other person
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who's like, wow, I can't screw up. You know, like there's, there's, there are reasons. Cause I think
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right now participating in this right now, do we only hire through, through the thing is like,
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I'm like, Oh yeah. Like this is great. We already, but we don't do the whole, you know, informal labor
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thing. And then, you know, there are then barriers to entry, which are created by all this, right?
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Like if you are trying to enter the nail salon business in California, you know, it's, I think
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it could be kind of tough when it's kind of dominated by all these other people. In fact, some
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nail, like a cosmetology schools that, that certify people for this, that way you need to do,
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to do nails, whatever that is, teach their classes in Vietnamese. Like they've just given
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up on English. Like screw that. That is hilarious. Yeah. So in, and it's this, so just in general,
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then there are lower transaction costs around the board, you know, getting things fixed,
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getting equipment, getting, getting employees, getting financing. And we've seen this with other
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friends. Like one of your friends who started kind of restaurant store business, I think leveraged
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family a ton for that. Yeah. His family worked at the business, his family manned the stores,
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his family helped with sourcing equipment, et cetera. Like that's huge. And I think, you know.
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But what was funny is it was one of those cases of his family was all Peruvian and the business
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that he was specializing in was like Jamaican style food.
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I mean, but again, not linear ethnic niche. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I, it's just so cool, but,
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ah, but no, no, no, no, no. Not cool, Malcolm, because Arctotherium says so.
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And Arctotherium says so. What, what, what, what's the complaint here? Why, why is it bad?
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Once a niche has taken over, outsiders can no longer compete within it, which I'm like,
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yeah, that sounds great. Like from an investor standpoint, that's what I'm, that's when we have
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to raise money for something. Investors always ask like, well, are there barriers to entry? Like
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what's, how, how defensible are you? Like, this is, this is the dream. Okay. But he says non-linear
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ethnic niches exist on and are able to sustain themselves in the face of market competition.
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This might hurt some Americans, but so do a million other problems. Does it really matter?
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Yes. Western civilization has been different for so long, more than 700 years that we've forgotten
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what this looks like. But non-linear ethnic niches are a throwback to pre-modern forms of social
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organization with all that implies. And he, so he's like, this is the worst.
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Okay. I just disagree with him here. If you look at ancient Rome, it was well known that certain
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industries were dominated by specific ethnic groups. If you look even at, for example, pre-Nazi
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Germany, we know that certain markets were dominated by Jews. Like I mentioned like pediatricians
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and orthodontists. So the idea of ethno like specialized careers is actually like,
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a continuous strain from modern Western countries to, if you go back to the colonial period,
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you will see specific ethnic groups dominating particular niches. As we've mentioned before,
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by the way, much to their chagrin, the Quakers and dominating the slave trade.
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The Quakers were anti-slavery. And I'm like, well, I can look at Quaker wills and 45% of Quakers
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owned slaves compared to like at the height of the deep South. It was like 22, 23%.
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To be honest, I'm a little surprised that he doesn't appear to know that there have always
00:21:08.500
been non-linear ethnically controlled industries. If we look at early America, we can, for example,
00:21:14.940
look at in colonial America, particularly in Pennsylvania, German immigrants played a
00:21:18.660
significant role in certain industries. For example, in Germantown, now part of Philadelphia,
00:21:22.540
Germans were heavily involved in papermaking. Was William Rittenhouse building the first mill in
00:21:28.060
the British colonies in 1690? They also dominated printing. Was Christopher Sawyer and his son
00:21:34.160
establishing a major press in 1738, printing America's first European language Bible in 1743?
00:21:40.020
Additionally, German immigrants were known for their craftsmanship in weaving, tanning,
00:21:43.660
and wagon building, reflecting their cultural emphasis on skilled trades. Now, if you go for
00:21:48.540
other periods, you can look at ancient Rome. In ancient Rome, the medical profession was notably
00:21:53.040
dominated by Greek physicians. So was the tutoring industry. Starting with Archegesis of Sparta around
0.87
00:22:00.160
218 BC, Greek doctors like Galen, Diocese, and Sorenes of Ephesus brought advanced medical knowledge to
00:22:08.680
Rome. Their influence was due to the advanced state of Greek medicine, which Romans valued, leading to
00:22:13.600
reliance on Greek expertise for both public and private medical care. Greeks also dominated the
00:22:20.100
No, no, no. This arctotherapy of nonlinear ethnic niches are slowly dragging Western society back
1.00
00:22:26.020
into the default human world of tribes, clans, extended families, and middlemen minorities we
00:22:31.380
escaped 700 years ago. So he basically thinks that they undermine individualism and that nuclear
00:22:37.920
families support individualism, which, I mean, just the fact that he is putting nuclear families on a
1.00
00:22:42.940
pedestal, of course, is like a trigger for us, right?
00:22:45.540
Like nuclear families, as we've mentioned before, they only really started as a thing in like the
00:22:50.900
1920s and they basically stopped being a thing in the 1970s.
00:22:54.280
No, but get this. He actually seems to be, and I'll quote him on this, like he seems to be
00:22:59.380
actually pedestalizing and thinking that the atomization of the family was a good thing.
00:23:06.140
And like, here's what he actually says. He says, by breaking extended kin-based structures into nuclear
00:23:11.440
families. So by breaking up the corporate family, this is what he's saying, all right?
00:23:15.480
The Western European marriage pattern facilitated interpersonal cooperation based on the task at
00:23:20.680
hand rather than kinship. Again, what? Atomization. Go buy it from a store. Go get it from a babysitter.
00:23:25.900
Go, you know, put your grandma on and home.
0.61
00:23:31.840
Rather than kinship instead, which both enabled cooperation at much larger scales and greatly
00:23:36.640
improve the efficiency of learning. See, he's like gone. He's like, drink the Kool-Aid. He
00:23:43.260
He's completely urban monoculture too. And this is the thing, he's-
00:23:45.860
This is our dozerian. This is the one who was like, you know how to solve demographical lapses.
00:23:52.240
Right. But now he's like, you know how to solve all these problems. We need to split up the family
00:24:00.440
The quality rates started falling. It was not when the woman left the household. It was the man left the
00:24:04.900
household. That was the beginning of the nuclear family. The concept that the man would leave the wife
0.90
00:24:10.740
and the kids at home and go out and earn wage labor. That is when fertility rates started falling.
00:24:15.700
That is the core toxin that we are dealing with as a society is the atomization that he is talking
00:24:21.460
about. All of the problems we have today are downstream of that. It is these extended family
00:24:28.660
networks and specialization that made our ancestors great.
00:24:32.880
No, but get this though. This is where it gets even crazier because this just seems so antithetical
00:24:37.360
to like the space in which Arctotherium is moving. But he literally with this quote is arguing for the
00:24:44.080
urban monoculture and for homogenization of culture. He writes, genetic and familiarly
00:24:49.920
transmitted cultural adaptations do not diffuse from endogamous, endogamous, sorry,
00:24:55.840
endogamous ethnic groups into the broader population. Market dominant and middlemen
00:25:01.520
minorities are thus problematic for national development. He's basically saying because they
00:25:06.000
don't integrate, they are not diffusing into the sludge of the urban monoculture.
00:25:12.800
This is objectively wrong and we can see this in history. There is a famous case of one of the Ayatollahs.
0.93
00:25:18.840
One of the Spanish emperors at one point was during one of these periods where they kicked
00:25:23.560
out the Jews. And one of the Ayatollahs sent a letter, I was going to say an email, but a letter.
0.58
00:25:31.800
There was basically a mocking, have fun being poor. Thanks to all the Jews.
1.00
00:25:36.360
And that's what happened. Spain did suffer economically after this. You know, you don't
00:25:45.080
kick out a group that is uniquely good at something. These groups provide these goods at lower costs.
00:25:52.040
That is why they have been successful, right? I don't want to pay some, you know, dilettantish,
1.00
00:26:00.680
neoliberally educated white woman to do my damn nails. All right. That's what the Vietnamese are for.
1.00
00:26:07.720
Oh boy. Well, so there are some criticisms that he brings up and I'm like, I hear you,
00:26:15.640
made, retained in new non-linear ethnic nations. So he pointed at the very large example of India,
00:26:22.600
it, when he talks about how they encourage discrimination, how entire swaths of the population
00:26:28.360
aren't even given consideration. He writes in a way, India's unique social structures keep
00:26:33.160
pre-industrial economy, even within modern technology with cottage industries, dominating
00:26:37.240
factories. He cites, for example, that like studies have found that people would like just pay to not
00:26:42.440
do anything that would put them in proximity with different castes. And that India is sort of one of
00:26:47.080
these places that continues to force this sort of caste system that he associates with non-linear ethnic
00:26:52.280
niches. But let me, let me walk through why they're actually awesome. And specifically, I alluded to it
00:26:57.480
before, free market competition is going to go haywire with the rise of AI and as demographic
00:27:03.000
collapse plays out. So like this whole, the whole underpinning of his argument here is like, well,
00:27:08.600
we all do better when there's globalization and free trade and markets at scale, but he's just assuming
00:27:14.920
that that's somehow going to continue to be facilitated. But as governments falter and fall apart,
00:27:20.600
as demographic collapse plays out and become more isolationist, and as AI plays out and disrupts the way that
00:27:27.080
businesses and markets work, leaving a huge number of workers unoccupied, we will not have that world
00:27:32.760
anymore. As cool as it was while it lasted in many ways, it wasn't cool in all ways, it's just not
00:27:38.600
going to last. So my whole thing is we're going to lose this. And here's this weird like molecule of
00:27:49.960
human configuration, the nonlinear ethnic niche, that actually has a lot of defensibility and
00:27:55.400
advantages. How can we replicate this to our advantage? And I really think we can't. One,
00:28:01.480
because he points out in two of his case studies that these cartels started with just one person.
00:28:06.360
The Cambodian donut empire got its start with the refugee, Ted.
0.97
00:28:10.920
There are some who call me Tim and that the Patel Motel got its start with an illegal immigrant,
0.99
00:28:20.360
Mr. Desai. So here's what we need to do. And here's what I'd say we do differently. So to replicate,
00:28:27.080
like the good stuff I would keep is focus on a small industry. I'm going to say niche biotech,
00:28:32.360
right? Let's modify some humans here. Focus on an industry that other people don't want to be in
1.00
00:28:38.600
due to what in this case, not because it's unromantic, but because they think it's like,
00:28:42.360
it's not low prestige. It's anti-prestige, right? People are like ethical considerations and
00:28:48.200
abominations and stuff, right? So like us going into that niche, I would specifically say is great.
00:28:54.200
But I mean, if I were encouraging other people to look at this, find something other people don't
00:28:58.120
want to enter, that's kind of small, but I think niche biotech for us would be amazing.
00:29:02.600
Cheap credit. And you know how we talked about with the index that we would have like,
00:29:05.960
Simone, by the way, by the way, what you are suggesting here is that we become the Kaminoans.
00:29:13.480
Very impressive. We take great pride in our combat education and training programs.
00:29:20.040
You mentioned growth acceleration. Oh yes, it's essential. Otherwise,
00:29:24.280
a mature clone would take a lifetime to grow. Yes. From Star Wars, by the way, the Kaminoans are
1.00
00:29:30.280
the species that they go to, to clone all the soldiers that live on like the water world.
0.58
00:29:34.520
Yeah. You're like, just be the Kaminoans. Okay, great. Continue.
00:29:39.160
Non-linear ethnic niche. I mean, although they kind of, they kind of look, you look ethnically,
0.86
00:29:43.320
like somehow they have an advantage in that. I don't know. Like maybe they are just
00:29:47.080
somehow. Although all the Kaminoans are clones.
0.55
00:29:49.400
Oh, well, yeah. So then maybe they're not a non-linear, maybe they're just an ethnic niche.
00:29:53.800
But anyway, cheap credit. Like we would provide, we would create, because we plan to like later
00:29:59.000
in life, once our kids are all in order, we're going to really get the index in order.
00:30:01.720
Or find a way to like pull a lot of money in it. And then that money will be lent out,
00:30:08.280
like low, low cost financing to businesses that are then part of the index.
00:30:13.880
Either techno puritanism or the index. Yeah. Or maybe they're going to be the same thing. I'm not
00:30:18.120
really sure. But also fast tracked hiring. So if you're in the index, or if you're in the techno
00:30:22.440
puritan network, like you, we understand those values are aligned and also probably is going to
00:30:27.960
select for skill sets that are quite useful. So already you have that fast tracked hiring.
00:30:32.920
Values aligned employees, right? Because if you're in the index, or if you're a techno puritan,
00:30:36.600
like we know that you care about pluralism, you care about long-term human flourishing,
00:30:41.000
like you're going to be into also this kind of biotech acceleration of them stuff.
00:30:44.760
And then family involvement. Like I want our kids to work in this. I want our kids to,
00:30:49.160
you know, be involved in that. Low cost apprenticeship has for thousands of years,
00:30:54.520
been how one, like people who are very junior get their training and their career started,
00:30:59.400
but to how business owners gain access to very affordable labor because half the time you were
00:31:05.480
indentured. I think even during colonial times in the United States, you literally signed an indenture
00:31:11.880
to your, let's see, if you're the apprentice, what's the boss called?
00:31:17.080
And anyway, you were indentured to them basically. And it was very low cost labor, but it was,
00:31:23.960
it was a, it was a worthwhile exchange because you were getting training, often housing and food as
00:31:27.720
well. Here's what I want to make it different. I want to make it cultural and not ethnic. And I
0.94
00:31:32.760
think you can already see examples of this where it's a lot more inclusive. It's like an opt-in thing.
00:31:38.360
It's not like, oh, you don't look the right way or you're not like Catholics in the legal profession.
1.00
00:31:43.960
I was going to say, yeah, like look at the Catholic church. This is a very diverse, like
00:31:47.880
people from all walks of life, all backgrounds, all countries, all races, all ethnicities.
00:31:54.520
And they're all opted in. They're all very ideologically aligned. The LDS have gone kind
00:31:58.360
of halfway there also with like temple recommends cards. Like there's a little bit of this like
00:32:01.800
inside network. The LDS applicants are also significantly discriminated against within normal
00:32:06.760
jobs. Yeah. Yeah. So there's also BYU versus other equivalent schools. And this basically is like
00:32:12.280
a blacklist for hiring, which I don't understand. Like I, yeah, what's with the, that takes back to
00:32:17.400
that polling you'd found where like the LDS is like, you love everyone. I mean, I would be really
00:32:21.560
scared to work with like a Scientologist, for example. And you're like, yeah, this is worrying,
00:32:26.040
but like a Mormon, like, come on, man. I know, seriously, like great hires. At least the CIA has figured
1.00
00:32:32.840
that out. A lot of government agencies are huge on hiring Mormons. So someone loves Mormons and it's the
00:32:38.520
US government, but now the US government's firing everyone. So I don't know. So also I would, I would
00:32:43.480
leverage labor arbitrage, not from refugee desperation, but from ideological alignment,
00:32:48.440
just like the Catholic and church does. Right. And I mean, to a certain extent, the LDS does too,
00:32:53.080
but like when you become a priest, when you enter the church in service, you're not making a lot of
00:32:58.280
money and they're, they're definitely benefiting from your labor, but also you don't care because
00:33:04.120
one, they take care of you. And there's a lot of just, just memetic alignment. Like you're happy.
00:33:10.920
So it's not a problem. I feel like it's, it's a lot less ethical what's happening with refugees.
1.00
00:33:14.920
Cause you're, you're just stuck. You don't have other options. You're trapped. I want opt-in not
00:33:18.840
opt-out. Like, I mean, I want opt-in not you're there. Cause you have no way to opt-out. And I would also
00:33:24.680
leverage apprentices and not refugees for low cost, but high training employees. Like I would want our
0.81
00:33:30.040
children to apprentice in this. And it's, I think it's just so much more valuable than like going
00:33:34.600
to college. So also like, you don't end up in permanent debt. And I don't think that you can
00:33:38.600
study like real genetic science in college anymore because there's no, not with ethics boards, not
00:33:45.320
with like this, this consensus that CRISPR, you know, gene editing and multiplex gene editing.
00:33:51.160
They're like, Oh, scary germline gene editing. Oh God. Yeah. So like, exactly.
00:33:56.200
We will create the hominoid, the rise of the hominoid.
1.00
00:33:59.880
Well, that's the other thing is another thing I'd want to do differently is obviously
00:34:03.800
what exists with non-linear ethnic niches now, because they are actually ethnic in nature is
00:34:09.960
they'll look a certain way. I would like, I wanted to bring everyone in, but also like,
00:34:16.920
because we're biotech, it'd be like really cool if like you enter, but like, you know, 80% of the
00:34:23.320
people who enter opt in to have like their eyes turn purple, you know what I mean? Like
00:34:26.680
irises are like, Oh, you know, you know that they're part of the biotech cartel. Cause they
00:34:30.520
have lavender eyes, which would be really cool. Something like that. You know, like you, you can
00:34:35.880
tell you're me. Oh, they're different. Yeah. Yeah. It becomes ethnic, but it's also a feature.
00:34:41.160
Like you're showing off your wares, you know, or that like your heartbeat shows up as a tattoo
00:34:45.320
on like your cheek, you know, all sorts of crazy things or something. Right. And I would also want to,
00:34:49.160
one thing that I didn't really get into, which he does bring up as a legitimate concern in his
00:34:53.320
article is that most of these ethnic niches, they, they, they compete and they build barriers to
00:34:58.760
entry just by being very low cost and like undercutting costs for everyone else, sort of
00:35:04.600
making it just too hard for anyone else to compete. But in turn, they're also pretty conservative and
00:35:10.120
not innovative. And they're not also like, there's not a lot of competition and variance,
00:35:14.040
which of course is antithetical to innovation. And I, I agree. That's bad. Like I I'm with
00:35:19.080
Arctotherium on that. So I'd want to create incentives that encourage competition. And I
00:35:24.120
think it's really easy to do that, especially based on like how we would provide more funding and,
00:35:29.240
and how also the index is designed to encourage in intercultural competition and remixing.
00:35:36.280
And also just to, to be very clear, I would want it to be inclusive. Anyone should be able to
00:35:41.000
opt in if they're ideologically aligned. And again, like, I just better than other people,
00:35:45.400
like we are going to end up in a, a, a, what do we call it? Tecno feudal world.
00:35:52.360
Tecno feudal world. Yeah. That's what we're heading into.
1.00
00:35:54.440
So like, you need to sink or swim here, you know, like, I love this idea that like,
00:36:00.680
globalism will last forever, but we are headed towards that.
00:36:05.400
And you don't love it. Come on. Do you really love it? Or are you just like?
00:36:08.120
I don't know. I don't know. There were things about it that I love.
00:36:13.560
And there are, there are things about it that aren't so great, but yeah, I mean, I think it
00:36:17.960
doesn't matter whether I liked it or not. It's not going to last like the signs point to it,
00:36:22.040
not lasting. So we have to plan for something better. So is there anything else that you would
00:36:26.200
try to replicate or do differently? No, I love everything you're saying here. I want to play it
00:36:31.480
out. Let's do it. Let's cut the rest of the world. I mean, I might add like two industries.
00:36:36.600
I was going to have two industries that I would really focus on. Okay.
00:36:39.320
It would be the, the human genetic research and augmentation and human AI integration or
00:36:47.080
human computer integration, like brain computer interface and stuff. Like that's what I got my
00:36:50.760
degree in. That's what I started my career in because I think those are the two areas where
00:36:54.600
a lot of people are squeamish about, you know, engaging. And I think that, you know, you can create a
00:37:01.000
family that's just like a hundred percent all in, in this stuff. And you're going to get a lot of
00:37:05.880
people and their fields that are going to exist in the future. You know, like these are, these are
00:37:10.840
persistent fields that are going to have a persistent degree of societal squeamishness around them.
00:37:15.800
Yeah. Well, we've long dreamed of having a city state that's devoted to something like this.
00:37:22.600
I just, I never thought about it as a cartel per se. And I had never thought about the fact that
00:37:27.880
this has been done for thousands of years. And that there are many examples of this
00:37:33.640
already around the world. I also didn't realize just how strong these non-linear ethnic niches are.
00:37:40.120
I mean, what that, that, that Chaldeans own 90% of grocery stores in Detroit. That's just,
00:37:46.120
that's insane. And I've heard about who they are yet. The Chaldeans.
1.00
00:37:49.640
Yeah. Let's figure this out. That's what the internet is for a modern Aramaic
00:37:56.120
speaking Catholic, Syriac community, primarily from Northern Iraq. Hello, specificity.
00:38:03.720
Detroit grocery stores. Good for you guys. But yeah, I mean, there's absolutely no reason
00:38:09.400
why a modern Aramaic speaking Catholic, Syriac community, primarily from Northern Iraq,
00:38:14.200
would be really good at grocery store management. But they are. They're really good at getting
00:38:20.600
very inexpensive labor from Northern Iraq. Yeah, apparently. Anyway.
00:38:26.120
It's just fascinating. Very interesting topic. I appreciate you
00:38:29.560
prepping this episode, bringing this up. Fans can like and subscribe if you appreciate when
00:38:35.560
Simone does an episode. Yes. Yes. Do you, do you like the, the dumb female speaking more,
1.00
00:38:43.000
or is it very annoying? I could, I could imagine it grates on, on many, but. Yeah. I mean,
1.00
00:38:47.800
I can understand people not wanting the dumb female talking. For what it's worth. For what it's worth,
1.00
00:38:52.920
the grist for the mill came from Arctotherium, who also is highly critical of the professional
0.99
00:38:59.160
worth of dumb females. So I don't even know. I don't, I don't, I imagine he doesn't think women
0.99
00:39:05.320
are dumb. He just thinks that they're toxic for what it's worth. Yeah. Don't, don't mischaracterize
0.99
00:39:11.080
him. I know. I'm sorry. I love him. I love you, Arctotherium. I don't think you're watching this,
00:39:15.240
but you know, we've done like three episodes. At this point, we're pretty big. I wouldn't be
00:39:20.520
surprised. I guess. Yeah. I'm just, I'm always surprised even if like family is aware of what
00:39:26.120
we're doing. I just, we live in our own little farmhouse world. And I think I just love thinking
00:39:31.560
that, you know, we're out like on, on the prairie. Nobody knows what we're doing. In the wilderness.
00:39:36.680
Yeah. Just like. By the way, I don't know if you saw Simone, but Aria Babu, who's been on the show,
00:39:40.840
just sent us a wedding invite. It's in the UK, so I don't think we're going to go, but.
00:39:45.240
Really cool that she's getting married. She needs to start pumping out those kids, right?
1.00
00:39:51.000
Oh, oh, this is such a pretty, oh, it's a pretty website. Oh, oh my God. What?
00:39:59.800
Oh, ceremony, photos and fizz, lunch, speeches and cake. Oh, and this is a nice timeline. Ceremonies at
00:40:08.920
noon. You're having cake by 4 p.m. Do you understand? That's how you do it.
00:40:13.560
The weddings we go to, like, we just want to get the cake and get out of there, but it's like 9 p.m.
00:40:18.840
It's so sad that I won't be going because I like get invited to weddings so rarely.
00:40:22.280
I know. I don't really invest in making friends because, you know, they're gross.
00:40:32.200
You want to go? I mean, if you want to go, I can make it happen, you know?
00:40:38.920
We don't have any money, especially if I'm throwing it into a hole to save our investors.
00:40:43.480
Are you really sure that's a good idea, Simone?
00:40:48.040
Listen, we'll let the, if the board has an aneurysm, we won't. But I just want to do well
00:40:55.160
by everyone. I just want everyone to be happy. Yeah, well.
00:41:00.520
And like I was saying, like, listen, your, like, number two Google search suggestion is
00:41:05.320
Malcolm Collins billionaire. Maybe don't put our kids at risk trying to make other people.
00:41:09.800
But if everyone thinks you're super wealthy, you've, like, made it. Like, that's, that's,
00:41:13.640
I think the only reason why Donald Trump kept, like, trying to prove that he was wealthy. So
00:41:18.200
they got on those lists. So if everyone thinks you're wealthy, it's like one of those, like,
00:41:22.760
if a tree falls in a forest, if a man is Googled to be a billionaire, who's to know that he isn't?
00:41:30.760
You know? I love you. All right. Have a good one, Simone. I love you, too.
00:41:35.080
Okay. I'm going to, yeah. Yeah. Blow it all on this, this load.
00:41:42.760
Well, come on. I'm sure you're glad to be talking about something other than me
00:41:46.840
blowing our savings to protect our investors. But that's our way. It's your family's way.
00:41:52.920
Who was the family member who lost their hand, like, hanging off a roof to avoid interrupting?
00:41:58.920
I'm actually one of my, my namesakes and lost. Yeah. That, that, that happened in the family.
00:42:04.360
And we are taught that the investors come first. Yeah. So I don't know. I would rather lose our
00:42:11.400
savings rather than our integrity, our hands, you know, I mean, losing our integrity with investors
00:42:20.040
is a non-negotiable. You do not, you do not wrong people who do place to bet on you. You do not
00:42:26.120
double cross or not even cross. You don't cross with double cross. Oh my God. Like, don't, don't even,
00:42:30.680
you know what I mean? Do you like your blueberries? Yeah. They're the color of the ocean. They're the
00:42:37.480
color of the ocean. Step on a crack and you break your mama's back. Do you like your muffin titan?
00:42:47.320
Yeah. Don't step on a crack or you break your mama's back. Okay. Well, please guys,
00:42:53.720
don't step on cracks. Okay. Okay. Okay. You're going to be very careful about cracks, right? Yeah.