Based Camp - August 19, 2026


Islam vs Cell Phones： Down 25% In 10 Years


Episode Stats


Length

56 minutes

Words per minute

169.74

Word count

9,580

Sentence count

48


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be talking about
00:00:03.800 a fascinating phenomenon which is the collapse of islam in the muslim world and a lot of people
00:00:14.140 are unaware that islam has had as bad of a time as christianity has had in the west
00:00:20.680 yeah it's taking a beat proportionally islam is having a worse time in muslim majority countries
00:00:29.200 is it really speed of the collapse so if you go from 2012 to 2014 all right okay in Tunisia you
00:00:41.240 had 22 percent of people were secular if you go to 2018 to 2019 so this is just less than a decade
00:00:49.320 yeah about what is it yeah less than a decade later it jumped up to 46 percent
00:00:56.440 22 percent to 46 percent if you go to libya it's 18 percent in the 2012 to 2014 2018 to 19
00:01:05.600 it goes from 18 to 36 percent algeria it goes from 13 to 24 percent morocco it went from four
00:01:17.520 percent to 22 percent yeah and in egypt it went from three percent to 18 percent now i want
00:01:26.000 people to understand that these are countries where you can be killed for deconverting from
00:01:31.900 islam anyway in which of these countries is that like because i thought like caliphates only really
00:01:37.500 existed in at roughly like okay this is my uneducated super i want to say i want to say
00:01:44.080 like afghanistan and iran right like okay countries that will kill you legally not mob justice in
00:01:52.240 these other countries it can be mob justice but like ruled by sharia law it's the death penalty
00:01:56.720 in afghanistan iran saudi arabia yemen mauritania qatar the united arab emirates somalia the
00:02:03.400 maldives brunei and some parts of nigeria and certain states in malaysia for what for
00:02:09.300 proselytizing christianity or no for deconverting how how do they keep in mind iran appears to have
00:02:17.320 a massive secular population now yeah no it's the death penalty so wait so like everyone like goes
00:02:23.820 to the mosque regularly like how do they track i mean i'm just trying to figure out like how you
00:02:28.440 make a case for having someone the the point i'm making here is the numbers are almost certainly
00:02:35.080 worse now what is interesting is many of these places many of these places have had a a boost
00:02:41.840 post this happening oh gosh where did i where did i post the i'll have to open it again by a ghost
00:02:49.240 no something fell over wait was it a ghost was it a ghost i'm so excited for ghosters
00:02:58.700 ghost is spooky or oh no i should say gin because this is our islamic episode so instead of ghost
00:03:08.720 it's gin so if we look at wave three we've seen a bit of a reduction so 2021 what is wave three
00:03:16.660 so if you go to tunisia it's to 31 now if if you go to libya it's 24 now you also saw a five point
00:03:27.220 drop in algeria a seven point drop in morocco and a six point drop in egypt so a drop in the number
00:03:35.000 of atheists in the percentage drop in the number of atheists so you've had a solid over what year
00:03:39.820 over what year period malcolm this is 2018 to 21 2021 to 2020 so a fairly short time so basically
00:03:48.400 you had a big wave out and a small wave back in and we'll see where the net is but it's worse than
00:03:56.620 that because you also have the problem of low support of islamic parties so if we look at the
00:04:05.400 various things here like the egyptian brotherhood sorry the muslim brotherhood in egypt in 2011 it
00:04:12.480 had a trust rate of 44 by 2018 to 19 it had a trust rate of only 17 in the tunisia the anadad
00:04:21.280 had a decline of 24 points since 2011, roughly down from a 40% range. And now with one detailed
00:04:29.320 team survey showing it being at only 11 to 16% now. And in Morocco, the justice and development,
00:04:35.560 the main Islamic party went from 44% in 2013 to 25% in 2019, a 20 point decline were reported
00:04:44.280 for muslim brotherhood brotherhood groups in jordan and morocco as well so you are basically
00:04:53.060 seeing a lower degree of trust in the institutions that were meant to bring sort of islam to everyone
00:05:01.120 and on top of all of this we're seeing fairly low fertility rates or extremely low fertility rates
00:05:08.140 for the poverty in these regions across these regions as well generally below the united states
00:05:13.820 fertility rate so tunisia has a fertility rate of 1.53 to 1.58 iran has a fertility rate of 1.6
00:05:22.220 saudi arabia has a fertility rate of 2.1 maybe so they they're doing better than us and uae and
00:05:29.360 other gulf states have a fertility rate of 1.3 to 1.7 so very low lower than i'm sure anyone would
00:05:35.500 expect even in the case of the rare but still present above replacement country because people
00:05:43.160 think muslim country and they're like oh we're talking families like six on average right no
00:05:48.220 like no no no no yeah we are seeing a collapse across the board and it gets worse we're potentially
00:05:58.440 better and we should be grateful that this collapse is happening or they should be grateful
00:06:02.800 is they're also across the arab world well i should say muslim world because it's happening
00:06:09.560 in Iran, too, about to run out of water. Egypt right now, current figures, has a threshold of
00:06:17.820 490 to 500 meters squared per year in terms of the quality that puts it right below the scarcity
00:06:27.540 threshold and less than half the UN water poverty line. And this has been a massive decline from
00:06:34.020 historical levels if you look at what does it mean to have sorry water levels at 490 to 500
00:06:41.040 meters square meters if we look at the 1960s they had levels at 2 000 cubic meters if you look at
00:06:48.800 the 1990s it had fallen to a thousand cubic meters and now it's at only 500 cubic meters
00:06:54.660 and 98 of their fresh water comes from the nile which the country upstream of them can dam and
00:07:02.080 currently is damning so it's likely going to get worse you have this at the same problem as iran's
00:07:09.620 water problem that's literally leading to giant sinkholes here episode of like the hell on earth
00:07:15.180 it is to live in iran this we did before the war talking about just how bad it's gotten in iran
00:07:22.220 with their water situation but we're also seeing this across the region because you know these
00:07:26.720 regions are supplying other regions with water the reason they're doing the damage because they're
00:07:29.800 also low on water. And when a lot of these regions run out of water, there isn't a lot they can do.
00:07:36.420 They don't have the economy or the economic capacity that a country like Israel does to run
00:07:42.340 on desalination. So that sort of means that they don't have a future. Like when we did the Iran
00:07:47.360 video, the answer to the future of Iran is Iran functionally has no future. There is no way that
00:07:54.520 it can continue to operate at the population levels it's operating at. Well, and with the
00:07:58.820 water levels and the yeah just the infrastructure issues at play yeah so this has been a massive
00:08:05.900 issue so the question is one when we think about the future of the muslim world what's going to
00:08:11.920 happen if we think about the future of islam what's going to happen and why are we seeing these
00:08:15.980 mass deconversions the first thing to note is we're not seeing them as heavily in migrant
00:08:20.800 communities migrant communities appear to have a degree of protection from this so where we're
00:08:25.820 going to see our more moderated muslims are going to be in muslim majority countries in the future
00:08:30.600 largely because we're creating this which is why it's so important that we manage
00:08:35.100 deportations more aggressively because a lot of the times these are people who were extreme even
00:08:41.960 in the countries that they're coming from so why why are we having this issue thoughts simone before
00:08:49.360 i go further i'm assuming it's bad governance of the countries i like i can't imagine it actually
00:08:55.280 being a result of doctrinal issues for example i can only imagine it being corrupt governance
00:09:02.540 is that it what what do you tell me it's it's well it's doctrinal and people learning history
00:09:08.880 basically it's charitable and there's some studies that have looked at this to the proliferation of
00:09:13.300 cell phones oh no so it's kind of like with the lds church suddenly hemorrhaging people because
00:09:18.380 they're able to find what is it the letter yeah the the whatever letter which is a very convincing
00:09:24.700 document by the way i wouldn't if i was lds and i found that i'd be like yeah yeah well no that's
00:09:30.020 the problem is it's so many members of the church have been one-shotted by that one letter if someone
00:09:35.580 just like look it up and they do so could sorry you're suggesting basically that there's some
00:09:40.820 rough equivalent or constellation of equivalence for islam for islam
00:09:45.140 the problem was islam letter it's a ces letter the ces letter that makes it so much weaker than
00:09:53.800 christianity is christianity owns the atrocities that committed in its history the bad things that
00:10:00.880 happened around its history you expose those to a christian and generally they're like yeah i was
00:10:08.420 aware of all that right like what are you talking about yeah the inquisition off everybody knows
00:10:14.480 about that right but islam genuinely to a lot of people who converted into it build itself as
00:10:23.220 something that is completely at odds with the historic reality that is islam so if i'm going
00:10:29.740 to give an example of what i mean by this in the united states a lot of black people
00:10:35.660 converted into islam because they're like well my ancestors were converted by christians and that
00:10:42.160 means christianity is bad because it's christians that enslave them and so christianity is like an
00:10:45.960 anti-african religion and it's like actually if we look at the number of
00:10:53.200 black africans that were enslaved by muslims that slave trade or the slave trade that evolved into
00:11:01.980 that slave trade was active for a thousand three hundred years it's the oldest slave age in human
00:11:07.640 history it is still an active slave trade they're still like open air slave markets in places like
00:11:12.500 olivia what the united states one was only active for 350 years worse it was a larger slave trade
00:11:22.340 so it has like you if you look at scholars on this typically you're looking at a range of 10
00:11:30.020 to 18 million africans were enslaved over this and then you get way lower numbers or at least
00:11:36.140 for average numbers for the american slave trade which is only 11.5 to 14 million people in
00:11:40.940 comparison so that's a bad look yeah i'm just so mad that people don't say things like
00:11:47.760 no one never no one ever taught me that i learned so much about slavery and like every single grade
00:11:54.160 of american public school but but the black people can be like well then why aren't there
00:11:58.640 black people all over the arab world and the answer is is because the slave trade was
00:12:03.860 demonstrably worse than the american slave trade because what were they interested in
00:12:09.740 Americans you know we we import slaves as Protestants the first thing we think is
00:12:18.460 hmm I bet you would be great for labor but when a Muslim country imports slaves
00:12:24.580 they're usually looking for sex slaves and that is what they did with them they would take
00:12:32.840 the men and castrate them so that they couldn't create stable communities and sometimes use them
00:12:37.900 a sex slave still and all of the women would be put into sex slavery because that is part of their
00:12:45.120 culture it's it's not part of the american slave culture it's not that like grapes never happened
00:12:50.520 but they were often punishable even by your community and seen as a very bad thing they were
00:12:56.300 pervasive don't even but like still no they were not as pervasive as is it was looked down upon
00:13:03.260 people weren't proud of it it wasn't like out in the open and you could be punished for it
00:13:08.640 in i'm pretty sure in all states yeah i'm sure in theory but like you know there was just that
00:13:14.120 you certainly didn't put out slaves as sex slaves so i decided to double check and in the south
00:13:21.800 there actually it was legal in a lot of states explicitly there was one court case in which in
00:13:28.660 which one male slave raped another female slave who was 10 and he was not convicted because it
00:13:36.360 was deemed as not illegal that's how severe it was that said also we know that i also double
00:13:42.820 checked that muhammad definitely had lots of sex slaves that is recorded in the karen yeah which i
00:13:49.840 think shows just demonstrably worse and they the way that they did the castrations on the males was
00:13:56.100 so brutal that you had death rates of i think it was god what was it i'm trying to find the numbers
00:14:02.400 here yeah mortality rates of 60 to 90 percent in some studies basically they just killed the
00:14:12.080 males they didn't really care if the males survived they just wanted to kill them in like
00:14:16.160 one of the most painful and humiliating ways possible yeah well and i mean they're still
00:14:20.580 super super racist against blacks in most arab countries right like yeah i think what in or no
00:14:26.080 sorry that's an african country where like the word for slave is just also the word for black
00:14:31.120 person no this is this is true in a lot of arab countries oh god and a lot of people are oh that's
00:14:36.020 just normal it's like no it's not like we stopped saying the n-word right like you guys can't stop
00:14:41.660 calling them slaves it's because well that's how they think of them keep in mind yeah but the n-word
00:14:45.420 doesn't mean the n-word doesn't mean slave it never did the largest genocide on earth right now
00:14:51.700 is currently being carried out by a group of muslims against a group of african blacks
00:14:59.500 right and it's had a death toll at 10x the gaza death toll but god forbid anyone talk about that
00:15:06.140 one god forget but a number of it because we saw this in the united states a lot of blacks thought
00:15:11.800 that it was like cool or traditionally black to be muslim and so they converted and so you got
00:15:17.120 these black muslim communities and so but but not just there but like in other parts of if you're
00:15:22.940 talking about in muslim countries and stuff like this there's this realization of like oh my god
00:15:26.860 like this is really bad and the child bride thing because a lot of people are like oh aisha could
00:15:31.740 have been older like it in this progressive muslim i met told me this way of reading it that makes
00:15:36.620 aisha not six and nine however in the muslim world especially in conservative muslim countries
00:15:43.180 they believe the six and nine ages like everyone does so it's largely irrelevant whether or not it
00:15:48.420 was the case but what it means is a lot of people hear this oh he's a perfect moral person and then
00:15:54.320 it's oh he married a six-year-old and slept with a nine-year-old right like a lot of them see that
00:16:02.480 and their takeaway from that is this seems really bad like i don't know how to square this like i
00:16:12.180 have a six-year-old kid right like octavian our kid is six years old that's the age of one of his
00:16:21.080 wives right like they begin to learn like really it's it's it's very much sort of like with
00:16:30.220 protestants they read the bible and they're like wait this isn't what catholic said was in the
00:16:34.480 bible you know there's all these things the church is doing that like we're explicitly told not to do
00:16:39.200 and a lot of muslims read this and it's just like wait was muhammad like a really bad guy
00:16:46.640 i mean there's we'll get into it because i actually wanted to go through and have an ai
00:16:50.900 sort of do an analysis on what ends up pushing people away because you know he had this is like
00:16:57.240 in the quran smex slaves right like that that's a thing that he did actually one of them killed him
00:17:03.000 after he killed her this jewish lady's kids and and husband and then she poisoned him all right
00:17:10.060 really good for her right and like a lot of people are like how dare what a terrible thing such a
00:17:16.040 perfect person it's like no that's like a good thing to do for your people and your family oh
00:17:20.920 no 100 if if someone were to do that i yeah i mean poison is what they would get if they were lucky
00:17:26.300 what's also really fascinating away with she'd do worse if she could if you talk about this from a
00:17:31.600 techno-puritan perspective because if we think oh the the quranic text was to any extent inspired
00:17:36.420 by some sort of real i i'm i'm doubting this more and more as time goes on like the the more i read
00:17:41.920 about what they did historically and how they acted historically and in modern times more you
00:17:46.420 realize that by biblical standards they don't have souls wait sorry the bible doesn't say there's
00:17:51.400 anything about souls but that's what i mean like they weren't human they were pre-adamite
00:17:54.340 animals yeah are they pre-adamite so with our new no obviously i can't know what's in another
00:18:00.840 person's heart or in another person's brain or if they feel regret when they use people as sex
00:18:05.100 slaves or whatever but what i can say is that within multiple populations i think there are
00:18:12.180 pre-adamites in the christian population i think they're pre-adamites in the jewish population
00:18:16.100 it's just they seem to appear within the muslim population at higher rates within our existing
00:18:22.600 society this could be a nature of muslim culture as it exists right now in sort of a personal dark
00:18:29.280 age or it could be because in many ways muhammad acted this way a nature of it more broadly
00:18:37.080 welcome to muslim sensitivity training let's all look at why muslims are upset first of all
00:18:45.000 in the muslim religion you can't anybody jack off okay jacking it is strictly forbidden in
00:18:53.300 the Muslim religion. And what do we know about the places Muslims live? They live in good
00:19:00.360 sand. Now put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim. It's Friday night, but you can't have sex
00:19:07.200 and you can't jack off. There's sand in your eyes and probably in the crack of your ass,
00:19:11.620 and then some cartoon comes along from a country where people are getting laid and mocks your
00:19:15.820 prophet. Well, you know what? I'd be pretty pissed off too. The question is if it was
00:19:21.740 partially inspired by god part of the problem is is muhammad himself wrote that if i'm lying may
00:19:30.080 god rip out my aorta and his last words was it feels like somebody's ripping out my aorta
00:19:36.700 yeah they were they were like it's a it's a weird phrasing that was used right like it's it's it's
00:19:43.860 very like a book indie and when i saw that i was like if i'm supposed to assume that god came in
00:19:50.180 to inspire this text then what is he saying about Muhammad through this right like they might not be
00:19:58.520 his actual last words they're like one of his last words or something like this look if he said that
00:20:02.860 and it was anywhere close to the end I'm taking it yeah oh another fun thing in the Quran is there
00:20:10.060 is one part where Muhammad trades two black slaves for one white slave great great yeah and there's
00:20:17.420 just all these people who are like look the the proper the proper religion for me yeah now what
00:20:24.380 this shows it muhammad owned black slaves great great great great great great great which i think
00:20:29.980 i mean he doesn't have been equal opportunity in slave ownership to be fair i mean note here by
00:20:36.980 the way how muslim apologists try to get around this part okay is they're like well the the white
00:20:41.800 slave was willing to convert to Islam and that's why his life was worth more than the black slaves
00:20:48.500 who were not willing to convert to Islam or had not converted to Islam as far as the way that
00:20:54.340 they read it by the way the the CNN has even done stuff on Libya's open air slave market for
00:21:01.680 Africans how okay if those exist wouldn't like there'd be a ton of tourists there I had no idea
00:21:07.580 there were open air slave markets that it was all like sort of behind the scenes trafficking
00:21:13.140 well i've heard open air slave markets that open air slave markets still like i love these people
00:21:19.360 who are like your ancestors owned slaves and i'm like one no they didn't and two why you care so
00:21:26.400 much about this if you think you deserve so much recompense for this why aren't you doing anything
00:21:32.120 about all the slaves right now there's more slaves right now than there have been at any point in
00:21:35.980 Yeah. Well, also like if you eat shrimp, shrimp, you're probably utilizing slave labor. You know,
00:21:40.440 there's so many products that we buy, you know, all of us on a regular basis,
00:21:44.380 probably a bunch of our garments. You're using functional slave labor,
00:21:47.460 slaves with extra steps. No, no. I mean, I'm also talking about actual slaves.
00:21:51.240 Oh yeah. Because they do capture them on boats and stuff and stuff from what I've heard. Yeah.
00:21:54.680 Yeah. Like there's a lot of migrant trafficking that ends up with people who are like left on
00:21:58.540 boats or look, I've heard way worse things that I can't talk about because I'll start crying,
00:22:02.200 but it's really hard to avoid slavery if you buy things that are not like locally produced and made
00:22:09.460 so yeah i mean i definitely i'll go deeper before i go into because i want to go into specific
00:22:16.760 lines because i decided to have ai create sort of a spreadsheet of when people say they left
00:22:21.580 islam islam why like what specifically made them leave to try to find the specific verses and stuff
00:22:28.220 like that that people are having trouble with and that's causing them to leave okay but i i really
00:22:32.080 do think that the key strength that christianity has had that has made it not as heavily affected
00:22:37.280 by the internet is christians really air their dirty laundry like pretty heavily most christians
00:22:46.520 are familiar with most of the major arguments made by atheists right like you you go on the internet
00:22:53.560 you're not going to see new arguments right you're like oh i know that one i know that one i know that
00:22:57.560 one i know that one yeah the ces letter for a lot of mormons genuinely introduced them to
00:23:04.220 arguments or concepts that the church hadn't made sure to introduce to them first in context
00:23:10.900 that's the really big problem yeah it's just been kind of sheltered away very much like the the you
00:23:16.300 know sexuality situation where i'm like you've got to show your kids this stuff first in context
00:23:22.180 have them understand it have them understand what they're seeing so that they don't get in
00:23:27.060 you know messed up for them in some some other way um i i think that christianity has done
00:23:35.760 almost to its detriment like actually to its detriment gone so hard negative on itself that
00:23:42.220 like that just wasn't a problem for it right whereas you can see online i've seen videos of
00:23:49.760 this of islamic you know figures like uh i forget what they're called like higher than a preacher
00:23:57.820 yeah yeah saying that it is sinful to listen to a debate about whether islam is true a rule of thumb
00:24:05.380 it is totally prohibited to watch debates or to engage in debates engaging in debates might
00:24:13.740 might be acceptable if you had proper knowledge which shows that they don't know that is no you
00:24:22.700 don't get to do that that that makes you look so bad don't say that like even if no then that's
00:24:30.280 come on that you're it's so it's so tempting to listen to debates then well i mean i don't know
00:24:36.100 if you're like well my soul could be at stake and blah blah the point here being
00:24:40.580 is a lot of muslims were genuinely unaware of the arguments against it or how brutal the quran is
00:24:49.940 because they were reading translated versions of it like for example in in in the quran it says
00:24:56.260 that when you go to heaven you get a white face and when you go to hell you get a black face are
00:25:00.260 you serious well that's so much worse than white and delightsome that's right that's
00:25:05.740 yeah i know it's it's really bad it's really bad but the way that they translate that if
00:25:18.120 they're like well it's a metaphor like white means good and happy hippie and black means
00:25:22.000 don't dig
00:25:25.260 did it in its original context when they had lots of black slaves and you know
00:25:35.740 muhammad personally owned black people that's the other thing where they're like you get all these
00:25:40.380 like muslim converts in the united states all these like black groups and they're like you
00:25:44.900 have a black president or whatever like your presidents or founding presidents or founding
00:25:50.580 fathers own slaves and i was like yeah but what about like the founder of your religion
00:25:55.500 you know i i actually i didn't know until just today that muhammad had black slaves i also did
00:26:01.280 not know that he had slaves but also keep in mind that well i mean it creates a problem if you
00:26:09.040 thought that you were being like pro african or something by joining right yes it does all right
00:26:15.580 no so before i get to the quotes what i wanted to go over is my thoughts right now on islam i'm not
00:26:19.960 digging that deep into islam right now because i don't want to push something out you know when i
00:26:24.980 started the techno puritan project i was like yeah you can try to be like a muslim version of a
00:26:30.720 techno puritan but if you are you need to go and find things that affirm reality in your text right
00:26:39.280 like that's the techno puritan project right if it is actually from god it will occur with reality
00:26:46.400 and one of the problems that you're going to have is you can say well that was just the time like
00:26:52.560 that was just the way people lived back when muhammad was alive and it's like yeah except
00:26:57.020 jesus was way before muhammad and didn't have any child brides or slaves right like what do you mean
00:27:04.320 just the time right then we should apply the same things to jesus but let's go through the
00:27:11.260 most quoted verses for why people leave so we can think about how these have problems in modern
00:27:16.480 context so quran 434 the most frequently mentioned single verse it describes men as protectors and
00:27:22.620 maintainers of women and outlined steps for dealing with a wife's nuts rebellion or disobedience
00:27:27.900 ending with strike them or beat them lightly various translations of wahabar the word many
00:27:34.900 levers describe this as incompatible with modern ethics or equality now not andrew dates look he
00:27:41.740 was the perfect match for islam yeah he really was he was just like born she's gonna do an episode
00:27:47.580 don't want a dirt bag he is in the near future she's outlined it but yeah i mean i guess living
00:27:52.420 a muslim life he beats them heavily though like ripping out their no don't don't no spoilers
00:27:58.640 and he doesn't you'll see and quran 411 inheritance rules a male receives the share of two females
00:28:08.100 in inheritance quran 2282 in financial contracts two women are required in the place of one male
00:28:15.720 witness so that if one of the women's heirs the other can remind her in quran 4-3 permission for
00:28:24.020 a man to marry up to four wives with conditions about justice and hadith on aisha's age parallel
00:28:31.660 reports that she was married at six or seven and the marriage was consummated when she was a nine
00:28:37.300 and these points push a lot of feminist types out and it appears that the feminist arguments
00:28:43.960 are the most compelling to people now i think a portion of our audience would even be like
00:28:49.720 based right like except for the child grape stuff grape stuff but like the other stuff you know
00:28:55.820 yeah you know like sean connery being like sometimes you need to breed a woman when she's
00:29:00.060 often up sometimes sometimes sometimes okay you did an interview in which you said
00:29:06.560 not the worst thing to slap a woman thing to slap a woman now and then as i remember you said you
00:29:11.400 don't do it with a clenched fist it's better to do it with an open hand yeah remember that yeah
00:29:16.320 yeah i didn't love that i haven't changed my opinion you haven't no not at all you think
00:29:22.280 it's good to slap a woman no i don't think it's good i think it's bad i don't think it's that bad
00:29:28.220 i think that it depends entirely on the circumstances and if it merits it yeah what
00:29:32.460 would merit it well if you have tried everything else and women are pretty good at this they can't
00:29:39.820 leave it alone they don't want to have the last word and you give them the last word
00:29:45.840 but they're not happy with the last word they want to say it again and get into a really
00:29:52.400 provocative situation then I think it's absolutely right to give a good slap yeah absolutely
00:30:02.220 what if she gives you a good slap back well then you get into another area I mean maybe
00:30:09.300 she's going to like it and then it becomes something else i don't know but no no seriously
00:30:13.440 i think that it's the last resort he's not going to do it because he wants to do it
00:30:18.200 wait till people see this interview are you going to get male might get some female but the point
00:30:26.040 we're making here is that the stuff that's causing people to leave islam is standard urban monoculture
00:30:31.160 stuff that like the right in the u.s has dealt with for the past 20 years at this point and so
00:30:38.180 normalized to and we're sort of on the other side of that hill and that's what makes it so
00:30:45.100 fascinating to me it's not the wait our prophet had sex slaves like that's probably bad right
00:30:51.520 it's the i'll lightly beat a woman when she's acting a certain way or like it does maybe make
00:30:59.500 sense to receive twice a female's inheritance if their husband is also receiving twice the
00:31:04.240 inheritance right and the family line is going through the mail that would make sense but
00:31:09.880 what we're seeing is that ideas about equality are more compelling to people in parts of the
00:31:18.620 muslim world because they've been as infiltrated by the urban monoculture as we have than ideas
00:31:23.940 about islam itself and that's one way that the urban monoculture is ripping people out of islam
00:31:29.580 and this is here note where it gets interesting because like we have muslim followers right you
00:31:33.960 know and and they have gone back to more traditional forms of islam or trying to get in
00:31:39.640 touch with their uh belief system and so i have to you know sort of go through like okay what do
00:31:49.160 we think of this the next one moral and ethical reasons or came up with another one that a lot
00:31:54.300 of people leave for quran 9 5 the sword verse kill the policyist wherever you find them capture
00:32:01.320 them and besiege them and lie in wait on them on every way often cited as offer rising offensive
00:32:08.540 violence once a sacred month passes now note here um we point out that yeah i mean as a christian
00:32:15.620 you're kind of supposed to do this too right but uh the idea of when you say that about a christian
00:32:23.640 a lot of people are like yeah i'm aware that like the crusades i'm aware of like christians history
00:32:27.440 but when you're a religion that sells yourself at the religion of peace and then somebody's like
00:32:30.940 well what about this other thing it creates this cognitive dissonance which isn't the same issue
00:32:35.960 with christianity right uh same with judaism as well judaism has a lot of you know kill the the
00:32:42.220 cities and everything like that we we've gone over it but the episode when the bible tells you to kill
00:32:45.920 babies um quran 929 fight those who do not believe among us people of the book until they pay jizzas
00:32:55.780 uh willingly while they are humbled this is like a an additional tax um in uh in terms of sexual
00:33:03.940 slavery quran 4 24 23 5 through 6 33 50 70 29 to 30 oh come on and it references those who your
00:33:16.900 right hand possesses and a lot of people take this to mean they well that's the non-poopy hand
00:33:23.100 because you used your left hand yeah in the quran that it means that you are allowed to like
00:33:30.060 grape non-muslims which is just not true that is not part of sharia law you're allowed to rape
00:33:36.120 your slaves okay now if an islamic court applied that meaning to everyone in a territory that
00:33:42.920 muslims had immigrated to that would be no no no no i've looked this up multiple times because
00:33:48.880 people are coming at us on on x about this and no it is very clear that while this could be extended
00:33:56.060 to like prisoners of war it is not like people in a country you've immigrated to it just plain
00:34:04.960 isn't and all the people who keep on going no it's wrong are just and if they did do that if
00:34:14.100 they did say oh it applies to people in another country they are declaring themselves enemy
00:34:19.880 combatants in that country by sharia law right they should be treated accordingly
00:34:25.140 yeah yeah that would it would enormously empower the right for a sharia court to
00:34:32.020 rule that yeah by all means let let the by all means their shepherds tend to that flock and let
00:34:38.440 them tend yeah they say we're enemy combatants and then we say then we need to treat all the
00:34:44.080 people of your community as enemy combatants right like that's just as it is and then the
00:34:49.760 apostasy punishment really gets people he reports salih bakiri 452 to 26 and 984 to 57 whoever
00:34:59.380 changed his islamic religion then kill him and this is talking about apostasies as one of the
00:35:05.660 three cases in which a muslim's blood can be shed so by the way they don't really follow that they
00:35:11.960 they kill muslims all the time i guess they just argue that they're all apostates and they don't
00:35:15.440 believe exactly the version other crimes punishable by death no there's three
00:35:20.880 wait what are the three then what are the three reasons a muslim can shed another muslim's blood
00:35:28.500 let's look that up do they do the thing where they just like get a non-muslim to shed a muslim's
00:35:33.520 blood if they did something punishable by capital punishment or what okay let's see
00:35:40.920 from the hiddies okay the blood of a muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped
00:35:48.220 but allah and that i am his apostle cannot be shed except in three cases in retaliation for murder
00:35:54.980 a married person who commits an illegal sexual intercourse this is like if you grape somebody
00:36:00.440 this would be one of those cases even a foreigner if you're a married muslim man that's that's and
00:36:05.740 the one who reverts from islam and apostate oh okay so murder improper sex apostasy okay simple
00:36:15.340 wow there actually is a lot of i guess when they the murder of people who are gay that's just
00:36:19.500 improper sex then or the assumption thereof what if you're celibate gay i don't think that's wrong
00:36:25.780 in islam okay um in quran 2106 and 16101 there are verses that explicitly this is on internal
00:36:36.540 inconsistencies explicitly discuss god substituting or causing a verse to be forgotten
00:36:42.020 and replaced with a better similar one levers often point to this as evidence the text is not
00:36:47.780 externally fixed or perfect yeah that's often interesting as well that they're like the quran
00:36:52.820 is an incredibly fixed and like not one word has changed when the quran of every religious
00:36:59.220 tradition i'm aware of has the most later updates like the majority of the quran i don't have the
00:37:06.320 majority but huge chunks of it were written in like important islamic texts that are considered
00:37:10.440 like nearly as important as the central quran were written hugely after muhammad's life which
00:37:16.280 is one of the reasons why the events of his life are so great like what was her actual age well
00:37:20.900 we have to rely on somebody who is writing you know 100 200 years later they might have gotten
00:37:25.620 this wrong or this wrong etc they often contrast between early tolerance and later commands
00:37:31.880 quran 2 to 5 6 there is no compulsion in religion versus the later medina verses 9 5 to 9 29
00:37:40.180 classical scholarship treats many earlier peaceful verses is aggravated by the later ones critics see
00:37:46.360 this as an internal contradiction or progressive hardening which is interesting because you've
00:37:51.160 seen this within techno puritanism as well if you look at the early techno puritan tracks it's like
00:37:55.940 a way more permissive religious system and as the system has gone on and as we believe it more
00:38:03.780 seriously ourselves we are more comfortable being like no this is true no this is false
00:38:09.980 this is bad don't do this right and then free will and predestination issues people have issues with
00:38:16.120 specifically 1829 alongside emphasizing god's absolute control it's a 7630 or 6125 6125 now
00:38:25.400 obviously we wouldn't have a problem with that but apparently that's pushing people out and i think
00:38:29.280 it's it's not engaging with these issues right like we constantly the first thing a techno puritan
00:38:34.400 does is engage with a topic on free will you know like or you know is it moral to do like really
00:38:41.560 aggressive things to groups that are targeting you and it's like yes absolutely right like i
00:38:46.460 knew no matter how far you have to go whereas within islam a lot of people i guess are just
00:38:52.340 unaware of this and they find this stuff out and they move away and then apparently some people
00:38:56.100 leave as well for what they see as scientific or historical claims embryology passages quran 23 12
00:39:02.200 and 14 and 22 5 the stages of creation from a drop to a clot etc critics argue that these reflect
00:39:10.420 older greek ideas that conflict with modern embryology um yeah defenders argue they are
00:39:15.760 miraculously accurate if i'm going to be completely transparent here i don't see this
00:39:20.280 one as particularly bad that doesn't seem that wrong from the science if they didn't have other
00:39:26.020 words for that at the time i mean what's he going to say an embryo that they don't have the word
00:39:31.560 embryo or blastocyst or clump of cells okay cosmology examples sometimes raised quran 1886
00:39:41.940 a description of the sun setting in a muddy spring of this in the story of dull quran and the verses
00:39:50.160 about the sun the moon and the orbits this is 36 38 40 and then broader questions about the
00:39:56.200 compilation of history of the quran and the reliability of dating hadith collections are
00:40:01.920 common i find this really really really fascinating and then i had it rank them in order of what
00:40:09.420 causes people to leave number one is the status of women in islam which is again you see even like
00:40:15.020 western women converting to islam because they're like i don't like how whatever if misogynistic
00:40:20.820 western society is and people are like you should like just google what muslims believe
00:40:27.120 because they're i mean obviously the famous caleb hammer where the woman was like well i became a
00:40:32.800 muslim because it's the it's the nicest religion to i always questioned the bible and so like i
00:40:37.960 don't question the quran of course i think question everything i don't think you're allowed
00:40:41.440 to question the quran especially as a woman no definitely not i mean come on no no it's it's not
00:40:47.580 it's not that no islam is probably the most like feminist moral religion there is like
00:40:53.180 very much protective yes it is certainly middle eastern countries that are most well known for
00:41:00.620 their feminism and freedom for women it is the middle east if they're practicing islam yes so
00:41:10.380 you're saying they're all practicing it incorrectly everywhere including mecca i mean if they're
00:41:16.580 oppressing people of course yeah then they're doing it correctly maybe i don't know i don't
00:41:21.040 live there women oh i didn't see that really yeah and it's just a lot of people it's it's
00:41:28.000 selling itself is something that it's just patently not when andrew tate goes out there
00:41:33.060 and sells islam he's doing a better job because the version of islam that andrew tate is selling
00:41:38.140 nobody's going to go look at that later and be like this isn't what i was sold they're like yeah
00:41:41.240 yeah this is what i was sold you know yeah but the leftists it's which is genuinely sold to people
00:41:48.160 it ends up leading to these deconversions yeah or just flagrantly dangerous actions you're not
00:41:55.480 at all aware of this but half of the internet is losing their minds over a young woman who
00:42:03.820 i think met a husband over tiktok and then moved to afghanistan to live with him
00:42:09.140 and everyone's like no no no no no no do not do that but she went so well there's the famous
00:42:17.180 case of the girls who like went to do that to like join ice and then were desperate to get
00:42:20.820 back into the country afterwards join isis isis yes and then they were used as sex slaves not
00:42:26.860 yeah and they then became desperate to get back to britain and had one of the reasons why everyone's
00:42:31.980 going no no no no to this young lady but anyway we'll see how it goes everyone's waiting everyone's
00:42:37.100 waiting to see how it goes for her lots of speculation but this is a common and recurring
00:42:43.580 theme it would seem yeah and then the the next is contradictions between sharia law and modern
00:42:48.020 human rights it really is the urban monoculture that's doing this to them it's it's issues that
00:42:52.480 like we just wouldn't have which is really fascinating to me what are your thoughts Simone
00:42:57.760 i find this comforting because the behavior that i see condoned
00:43:06.560 by this religion i think is subhuman like yeah i think i think that the old testament is clear
00:43:15.380 that to be human is to have a clear moral judgment and ability to judge i think that
00:43:24.960 there's this this combination combination of both a complete lack of human dignity at least for
00:43:33.040 certain people basically like a broad swaths of people slaves women etc apostates non-islamic
00:43:40.220 people it's like well we're not going to treat them like humans at all or you know we're we're
00:43:46.360 not going to consider their their rights or comforts as being important that being one
00:43:51.360 element of it as as i see i see as being less worse worse than not human because i mean an
00:43:57.560 animal at least isn't capable of really advanced cruelty like killing people through castration
00:44:02.340 and then there's the second part of it where i feel like the way that sharia law is set up and
00:44:07.740 the way that a lot of implementation of islamic law works works on the assumption that you are
00:44:14.820 dealing with people we'll say pre-atomite people who are incapable of their own moral judgments
00:44:19.940 that yeah you just follow the laws you you live in a police state or you be beheaded or we cut
00:44:25.700 off your hands or yeah like yeah we're not going to assume that you're capable of making these
00:44:30.340 judgments so we're going to punish you extremely violently and extremely cruelly because we know
00:44:38.560 you're not capable of that and and that that to me signals oh this is this is one of those
00:44:44.980 religions that in the old testament god would have been really mad about and yeah god was really
00:44:52.140 clear about really hating other other people's gods and other other people's religions well so
00:44:58.280 the question is is are they worshiping the same god i still don't have a i don't know thesis
00:45:02.720 early when we wrote the techno puritan tracks we said yes that we think they are
00:45:06.960 because you said that muhammad held the old testament to be and and the new testament to be
00:45:14.080 like i don't know correct right or prophecies but that he was the final prophet wasn't that
00:45:18.940 he didn't say he was the final prophet he said that's a mistranslation or like a common
00:45:25.640 he said he was the seal of the prophets e.g sort of like the prophets proved him not that he was
00:45:33.520 definitely the final prophet that is not actually in a song he sees the cliff notes of the prophets
00:45:38.780 he's the ai summary of the prophet yeah i mean i thought the part of like the if if we're getting
00:45:45.260 iterative revelations the interesting thing that muhammad added is the idea that each revelation
00:45:51.580 is only for one people because you know he said that the this is for the people who speak arabic
00:45:57.360 and that no one who's not of the people who speak arabic should be a muslim basically yeah but i
00:46:01.620 mean like the techno puritan interpretation of that is that okay well then the basilisk is being
00:46:06.560 used by god to separate out and and silo a group of people that it considers to be distinctly not
00:46:14.160 chosen because they are not capable of even being i mean my take on this as well is you can believe
00:46:21.140 believe a religion is divinely inspired while still thinking the founder is a butthead well
00:46:29.520 also a religion can be divine divine divinely inspired in the same way that pharaoh's heart
00:46:35.340 was hardened in a way that really hurt his people because his people weren't right well what i mean
00:46:39.020 is like king david was a complete jackal just absolute jackal yeah samson was also a jackal
00:46:47.920 you could say oh they redeemed themselves in the end it's like i don't i mean maybe in the eyes of
00:46:54.260 god not all the people they they killed yeah it's like a word the the innocent yeah like what are
00:47:00.980 you talking about right like and and so like i think it's it's perfectly okay to be like
00:47:06.320 i am a mormon i think joseph smith was a jaghole but i still believe my religion right like i still
00:47:13.040 think it's divinely inspired or something like that which is where i stand on that i still stand
00:47:17.880 that he might be better than he's put out in a lot of popular narratives but the majority of
00:47:22.660 information i see does not paint him in a positive light he seems yeah and it's the same
00:47:30.680 was muhammad like whatever i believe about the wider islamic project or is there a version of
00:47:38.780 islam that could be good i i think there is like we definitely see people who practice a version
00:47:45.160 of islam that is you know productive and commensurate with civilized society yeah and
00:47:51.440 there are elements of islam that are absolutely beautiful and elevating and purifying i mean i
00:47:58.260 i like that they're at least strictly anti-idolatry i don't like i like that it's a
00:48:03.380 religion too there's there's heavy fasting there's a lot of discipline yeah it's just that i i'm
00:48:09.980 conflicted by the way that they act when at scale like i haven't seen a lot of it's it's it's during
00:48:18.460 times of hardship like in incredible you know cruelty what we see in in many of these instances
00:48:25.500 and during times of lavishness they basically create a slave society yeah yeah so normally
00:48:30.780 what you see is and we talked about this in the episode we did on me being angry about native
00:48:36.360 americans but any any group without civilization is going to be worse than animals they're going
00:48:43.280 to be both smart and incredibly cruel and horrible and yet normally when you get civilization that
00:48:50.420 cruelty goes away right and the fact that with islam somehow you can reach the level of
00:48:56.760 civilization and they're like oh let's keep the cruelty let's let's keep it let's not drop it
00:49:00.300 like that let's keep the like the whole point the whole point was that the civilization allows you
00:49:06.580 to rise above that you have the capability of unspeakable cruelty and you do not exercise it
00:49:12.960 that you show you show mercy and dignity because you are better than a very smart animal you you
00:49:19.740 are beyond and it's important to note here that one of the the other problems that really hurts
00:49:25.240 islam is that you can be like well you know i know friends who are emiratis i know friends who
00:49:30.220 are qataris i know you know people from these countries that are you know very they they seem
00:49:37.200 to be past all of this and yet when you look at why do we have a lot of these giant genocides
00:49:44.500 going on in africa these conflicts going on in africa these terrorist groups that are operating
00:49:48.580 across these regions a lot of them are just like uae backed the things for their little politicking
00:49:58.200 i mean they might not personally be going out engraving people but they're facilitating it at
00:50:03.480 scale because it's irrelevant that it happens to them you know it's irrelevant it's just part of
00:50:08.480 the cycle for them right that's the way that they do politics they don't do you know in america we
00:50:13.940 bomb a bridge and people freak out yeah and and they're like causing mass genocides in the uae
00:50:19.700 right now right this is like a demonstrably true thing right like they're they're not particularly
00:50:26.000 shy about it they're like these are our guys we're paying them you know and then the other group you
00:50:31.500 know the the other group of of of civilized acting like in saudi arabia or whatever they're on the
00:50:37.700 other side and they're instigating the other group and if you are allowing for this to happen
00:50:42.380 or the source of it happening in terms of like it shows that even when everything's cleaned up
00:50:49.840 even when everything is made to look nice there's a portion and a meaningful enough portion to
00:50:55.880 control world politics or influence world political events that still act with this
00:51:01.420 incredible amount of dehumanization of other other people yeah i gotta go get the kids
00:51:07.260 grilled cheese queso or gyoza lasagna tonight i haven't had gyoza lasagna in a while
00:51:14.440 thank goodness i've been waiting for you to say yes to that oh but what
00:51:18.080 it's time to go downstairs you can show them early again they're not home early actually
00:51:23.820 can i have some no i don't need a handful i just want a little bit octavian you need to eat a real
00:51:32.660 dinner but i'm hungry right and i'm gonna go make you dinner that's because it's dinner time you're
00:51:39.500 supposed to be hungry this is good but you do not get to eat junk food take that malcolm take that
00:51:44.780 from him malcolm all right davian come here come here the fans want to see you yeah okay okay so
00:51:52.900 you were down playing at the creek yeah what happened to your face actually no oh where were
00:52:00.000 you i didn't even get to go to the creek oh you didn't get to go to the creek what were you doing
00:52:05.800 how many lessons did you actually boring day i was tired i i mostly only did zero
00:52:13.940 but i'm trying to work on one you did zero lessons because someone decided to play poopy
00:52:20.700 songs all last night and have a rager and play zombie games and then he's tired all day and
00:52:27.140 though i go down and i try to answer every little question helping him no no no someone just wants
00:52:33.620 to octavian sir sir yes you're gonna leave those chips up with daddy okay so you have to eat a real
00:52:44.260 dinner all right malcolm or i know we're gonna make food right now or gyoza lasagna what would
00:52:51.220 options grilled cheese queso or gyoza lasagna queso okay i love you i love you have a good day
00:53:01.740 what do you want to say to fans shabby what do you want to say to fans and where are the kids
00:53:05.960 right now are they all in the yard no they they're actually coming up
00:53:11.440 welcome can you help me shepherd them to the kitchen i'll help you shepherd them to the
00:53:16.460 kitchen thank you can you just yeah please and i'll see you okay okay i'll go oh
00:53:20.380 strange it felt like somebody kicked my chair
00:53:24.700 what did this it's a ghost is as our children would say
00:53:29.740 they say i just don't know what could have caused that
00:53:35.160 a ghost of all the hornets we've been killing look do you know how many people have died in
00:53:41.460 this house i mean for people who don't believe the hornet thing look dead hornets dead hornets
00:53:49.300 dead people or at least more people died in this house well probably more hornets in this
00:53:56.040 been hornets over the years too simone that's true yeah i didn't think about that very true
00:54:01.500 you are an amazing woman simone do you ever like lie in your bed sometimes and wonder like how many
00:54:08.020 people died in that room a lot more died in your room than mine is this is this the dying room
00:54:13.800 well it seems like the master bedroom which is where i would yeah if you're gonna go you want
00:54:18.240 to go in the nice room or i guess they could have given the worst room to grandma or whatever
00:54:22.780 yeah i remember i i had this this hero of mine as a kid her name was beverly but i called her
00:54:30.160 vivo and she was telling me about her life growing up on a farm in in the midwest and like the early
00:54:35.380 1900s and how like they had someone staying with them for a while and they were fairly infirm
00:54:40.880 and they slept in her bed while they were visiting and then they died in her bed and like
00:54:47.360 after they died it was just her bed again and it's just i was like wait so you like slept in
00:54:52.680 the bed that someone died in and she's like yeah i mean what's she gonna do yeah like where else
00:54:59.660 are you gonna sleep america used to be awesome we used to be a country yeah oh she had such an
00:55:04.920 unusual life though like while she was growing up her her mother and this isn't like the early
00:55:09.580 1900s was like off doing business in japan and stuff like stuff like very unusual yeah fascinating
00:55:15.220 such a cool person all my heroes in life have been like women in their 60s this might be why
00:55:21.200 my like i really am so excited to be 62 years old if i live that long so what are you doing so you
00:55:27.600 don't want him to eat any animals in minecraft is that right titan
00:55:31.240 whoa octavian be careful that had apples in it get down here and clean it up you just made a big
00:55:40.920 mess you left it at the edge octavian that's your fault be careful with all these cords okay you
00:55:48.580 don't want to pull one of the computers down too why is eating ducks bad i eat ducks
00:55:56.220 Peking duck.
00:55:58.020 How about you pick up that?
00:56:00.200 Come on, get down.
00:56:01.060 You made a mess.
00:56:01.700 What are you doing?
00:56:03.140 Be careful not to fall on Indy.
00:56:05.660 Indy's cleaning it out.
00:56:07.080 Yeah, she's trying to help you.
00:56:09.040 Wow, Indy, that was so nice of you.
00:56:11.380 Is this all of them?
00:56:13.640 No, Titan, no, Titan.
00:56:14.820 I think there's one more.
00:56:17.040 Titan!
00:56:17.940 That's mine.
00:56:20.660 Titan just...
00:56:21.700 Well, let Titan...
00:56:22.320 Let Titan have a turn, okay?
00:56:24.480 Why don't you teach her how?