Based Camp - ＂Keep Fights Fair＂ Forced on the USA Military By Karens

00:00:00.000 I know, I know. You enter a mosque or a religious site and suddenly, oh, you can't shoot. 0.98

00:00:07.900 Oh, oh, oh, hey, no. Now you've had your turn. You've just taken two volleys and we haven't even had one.

00:00:16.880 You're doing very poorly in this war, I might say.

00:00:19.980 What did this mean about where our enemies and people trying to hurt our efforts were going?

00:00:27.280 It meant they went straight to the residential areas, right?

00:00:30.000 Because they discovered, oh, for some reason, the U.S. troops don't, like, fire their guns when we go near the houses.

00:00:39.620 They're literally playing by, like, vampire rules.

00:00:42.320 May I come in?

00:00:43.920 Nope.

00:00:44.560 Would you like to know more?

00:00:45.940 Hello, Malcolm. I'm excited to be speaking with you today.

00:00:49.000 Even though I can't really emote, I'm sorry, recovering from mouth surgery.

00:00:52.720 But something happened that completely changed the way I look at the U.S. military.

00:00:56.580 So, you know, like, we picture in movies and stuff, there's the troops, you know, that they're fighting, there's the helicopter, they're pew, pew, enemy, right?

00:01:04.340 So they see the enemy and you shoot the enemy, right?

00:01:07.100 But, like, in reality, apparently, it's a little more complicated, especially during the Obama years.

00:01:13.060 It's, you see the enemy and you're like, oh, it's the enemy. Shoot the enemy. Wait, no, no. Is it legal? Are they near a house? Are they near civilians? Did they just go into a mosque? No. Okay, don't shoot them. Wait. No. Wait until they're shooting at us. 0.94

00:01:26.920 And there's, like, all these rules. And you're just not sure if you're allowed to do it.

00:01:30.160 Because we are basically hamstrung by this red tape of all these rules of engagement that prevent us from, in many cases, even really preemptively defending ourselves.

00:01:42.440 And not enough people know about this. And I think a lot of people are like, oh, the U.S. military really, like, messed up in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in all these other places.

00:01:52.080 Well, they don't realize that we are so, we have our hands tied behind our back by all these rules.

00:01:59.400 They're not necessarily-

00:01:59.800 Now, hold on. I want to take a step here to sort of summarize.

00:02:03.780 Because this was really shocking to me when I learned about this, is there is that modern joke about, you know, the British people fighting the Americans during the Civil War or something.

00:02:14.480 Yeah.

00:02:14.640 Being like, why aren't you guys in a line? Like, what are you doing now?

00:02:18.060 I do believe that we did agree upon noon. Is that correct?

00:02:23.020 It's not a problem. It's all right. It's just in the future. When you say you're going to be someplace, it's in everything.

00:02:28.900 Okay, very good. Very good.

00:02:31.640 Shall we have at it, then?

00:02:33.780 All right. Would you like to take a few moments to get ready?

00:02:37.060 It wasn't exactly like that. There was reasons that they fought that way, but it was genuinely a bad way to fight if the other side's using guerrilla tactics.

00:02:45.560 In specific ways of using guerrilla tactics, the Americans got really good at.

00:02:49.940 And the British really were trained, like, fight like this. This is how you use guns. 0.57

00:02:54.280 And they did not work very well in this particular context.

00:03:00.160 And although it did work at times better than I think a lot of, like, the lay history would tell you.

00:03:05.840 Like, the revolutionary war was hard to win. It was not an easy war.

00:03:08.980 Yeah.

00:03:09.120 And it was huge for us to win that.

00:03:11.200 Really cool, by the way, beating the world's biggest superpower as by far their wealthiest colony, by the way.

00:03:16.900 I don't know if people know this, but the average American at the time earned way more than the average bidder's person.

00:03:21.720 And not just that.

00:03:22.760 We paid way less in taxes.

00:03:24.520 Despite all of our whining, America never changed.

00:03:27.440 By the way, I don't know if people know this today, but on average, a British person today earns less than an American living in the poorest American state.

00:03:37.260 By a pretty significant margin, too.

00:03:39.820 So, like, if you are British and you want to, like, make fun of, like, uneducated, like, Trumpist Americans and, like, wherever you consider to be the most uneducated, Alabama, Mississippi, whatever, they're still out earning you. 0.58

00:03:52.000 They're still out teching you.

00:03:54.000 Okay?

00:03:54.380 So, you know, maybe get off your high horse.

00:03:56.880 Yeah.

00:03:58.540 But, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.

00:04:00.220 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:04:01.880 Okay.

00:04:02.160 I just want to finish this and talk more so you don't have to talk as much because I know you're...

00:04:07.120 If you're wondering about the bruising on Simone's face or we had to stop content production for a week, she needed to have a part of the interior of her mouth cut off and then put onto another part of the interior of her mouth because it was thinning. 0.99

00:04:21.140 And, yeah, really severe surgery.

00:04:23.720 Can I just...

00:04:26.040 The point being is that this sort of structured holding ourselves back has been happening really until this administration within many of our modern conflicts.

00:04:39.520 And one of the things that's freaking people out about the way that we are fighting and so dominating the war in Venezuela or the war in Iran is because this Trump team, this new right team, is ignoring these rules.

00:04:55.080 Well, that, it's different.

00:04:57.440 It's not just that.

00:04:58.640 But I'll get into it.

00:04:59.560 Because what we need to talk about is, one, just these rules exist and you should know about them because it's not fair to really think about our military, like, messing up in an area when you consider the rules that we're governed by.

00:05:11.340 Two, I think it's really important to think about what these rules do in terms of the unintentional consequences they cause. 0.99

00:05:17.420 Because while they're often not published and kept pretty secret because obviously having them spelled out is just serving the enemy, the enemy still picks up on patterns and then knows how to exploit you because of your stupid rules. 0.98

00:05:30.520 Or not stupid, but, like, because of your ethical rules. 0.96

00:05:33.420 And then third, these rules kind of fly out the window in the face of new tech. 0.99

00:05:37.960 And that was sort of the context in which I actually learned about these rules in the first place.

00:05:41.920 So, I was first clued into this because I was listening to a recent All In podcast, which is this American podcast headed up by a bunch of tech VCs.

00:05:51.460 And in this All In podcast, Emil Michael, who's the current undersecretary for Worse Research and Engineering, but he was previously the senior vice president of business and chief business officer at Uber.

00:06:01.540 And he was also the chief operating officer at Clout.

00:06:03.840 Do you remember Clout?

00:06:05.440 Clout?

00:06:06.160 Yeah, Clout. 0.71

00:06:07.080 It was, like, this, like, social cachet tech startup.

00:06:09.720 He's basically a tech startup guy.

00:06:11.920 He mentioned that past rules of engagement in places like Afghanistan were insane, including requirements such as if an enemy had a small gun, the U.S. soldiers also had to respond with a small gun, creating this bizarre expectation of parity instead of overwhelming force.

00:06:26.340 He basically claimed that legalistic and restrictive rules meant soldiers constantly had to make complex legal judgments in real time, which then left them at risk and prevented them from simply just focusing on taking out the enemy and protecting their own people.

00:06:39.940 Like, oh, well, can I shoot the enemy?

00:06:41.680 No, there's all these rules.

00:06:42.960 Like, check the rule book.

00:06:44.260 What will the lawyers say?

00:06:45.680 Which is an insane thing to think about when this is, like, a life or death emergency situation and people are shooting at you, you know?

00:06:51.680 But-

00:06:52.000 They think they're walking into, like, a BDSM club.

00:06:54.220 Like, what's the safe word?

00:06:55.580 No, seriously, though.

00:06:56.880 Like, actually, which is insane.

00:06:58.840 Michael said the rules of engagement were then subsequently relaxed, though, in this most recent Trump term.

00:07:03.660 So, at least now they're more along the lines of, like, use your judgment.

00:07:07.940 But then this had me thinking, oh, my God, what were they before?

00:07:11.380 And you can get a peek of this from Pete Hegseth, who wrote this 2024 book called The War on Warriors, in which he, for example, recounted a scenario where troops were told to not immediately shoot an identified enemy with an RPG.

00:07:26.520 So, like, the enemy's there.

00:07:28.140 They're like, no, no, don't do it.

00:07:29.540 He mocked lawyers as jagoffs, you know, jag is military court, who prosecute troops more than enemies, which I could totally see being the case. 1.00

00:07:39.740 Implied that the rules of engagement required constant legal consultations in fluid combat situations, rather than allowing judgment to just take out threats and protect allies decisively.

00:07:49.860 I just can't imagine being like, call the lawyer.

00:07:52.940 It's just insane to me.

00:07:54.180 And then also complained about rules of engagement in Afghanistan that enforced parity or restraint, like Michael was referring to in the podcast, like matching small arms to small arms or putting tight limits on force in populated areas to minimize civilian harm under directives like the 2009 ISAF tactical directive, which I can go into more.

00:08:13.120 So, one, again, this isn't saying that these rules exist, but I also understand why they do.

00:08:18.840 I just didn't know they were there.

00:08:19.940 I didn't think about it.

00:08:20.840 And I'm sure a lot of the people who formerly served in the military who listened to this podcast can totally school us on this.

00:08:25.940 But I also just, like you said, had always thought of America as being this, like, tactically flexible and innovative country.

00:08:33.340 Because, like, always it was us beating these redcoats who were, you know, oh, I'm going to follow the rules. 1.00

00:08:38.860 We're going to get in our phalanx, like, formation and shoot each other.

00:08:41.900 You know, whereas, you know, we were, like, in the trees being all patriot.

00:08:45.920 Oh, oh, oh, hey, no.

00:08:49.920 Now you've had your turn.

00:08:51.080 You've just taken two volleys and we haven't even had one.

00:08:55.120 Now, I know that for a lot of you Americans, this is your first parlay.

00:08:58.760 But there are rules in modern warfare. 0.95

00:09:02.120 We're not dumb beasts, right? 0.73

00:09:04.580 Now, since you've taken two volleys, we will take two volleys and then you may return fire. 0.95

00:09:11.100 You are, in effect, losing a turn, right?

00:09:15.260 Hey! 0.99

00:09:16.440 Hey! 0.99

00:09:17.200 Now you know the rules.

00:09:18.300 I've just explained them to you.

00:09:20.580 You're doing very poorly in this war, I might say.

00:09:23.420 Well, this reminds me of the top comment right now under our video that we just filmed on the

00:09:28.660 war in Iran.

00:09:29.740 Somebody's like, it turns out you can just do things.

00:09:33.260 And that's what I thought we were.

00:09:34.840 And I mean, we're returning to that largely thanks to tech.

00:09:38.860 And that's kind of what's also really exciting to think about.

00:09:42.320 Because what the new conflicts in Venezuela, or, well, not conflicts, but what our strategic

00:09:48.720 actions in Venezuela and Iran have demonstrated is that because we're using drones and tech

00:09:56.360 and tactical teams, we are able to a large extent to subvert a lot of both the, the

00:10:02.740 endogenous, like US-based rules, as well as the international rules.

00:10:07.960 They just don't apply in the same way.

00:10:10.320 Fun, fun aside here is the second to top comment.

00:10:13.300 Somebody laugh crying saying, cause I thought this was so funny from yesterday.

00:10:17.780 Quote unquote, are there Jews in Skyrim?

00:10:22.660 Because I was talking about racial stat modifiers for Jews, if they were in Skyrim and someone 0.64

00:10:27.920 goes, are there Jews?

00:10:28.660 And what's so funny about this statement is at first I laughed because it was hilarious.

00:10:34.780 And then I was like, oh, but Skyrim does have two ethnic groups that we are related to the

00:10:40.700 Norse and Bretons that are clearly meant to be Scandinavian people and British people. 0.99

00:10:46.020 And then the, the empire, which is clearly meant to be people of Italian descent.

00:10:50.900 And so they all have stat modifiers.

00:10:53.960 Why are, why not Jews? 1.00

00:10:56.240 The Khajiit, we'll just say, put the, anyway, continue. 0.99

00:11:00.760 So just to give you a picture of what rules of engagement are, because I just thought it

00:11:05.600 was like, I don't know, some kind of turn of phrase.

00:11:08.140 I didn't know rules of engagement were a thing.

00:11:10.100 Did you?

00:11:10.460 I had no, I, I thought rules of engagement like best practices for like winning an engagement,

00:11:18.400 not for like.

00:11:19.560 Yeah.

00:11:19.740 Like laws of physics, like, oh, the rules of engagement, shoot the enemy before they shoot

00:11:23.460 you.

00:11:23.780 That kind of thing.

00:11:24.360 Right?

00:11:24.600 Like, hey, maybe don't shoot civilians. 0.99

00:11:26.580 That's a dick move. 0.99

00:11:27.740 Right? 0.99

00:11:28.040 Right?

00:11:28.860 No.

00:11:29.280 Yes.

00:11:29.480 But instead it's like a game where like, it takes you out when you start shooting civilians.

00:11:33.400 We need to be.

00:11:33.780 No, it's worse than that, Malcolm.

00:11:34.940 It's worse than that.

00:11:36.000 It's worse than that.

00:11:36.720 So let me, you went out of bounds.

00:11:38.860 You, no, no.

00:11:40.600 Okay.

00:11:41.500 Let's get into it.

00:11:42.860 Rules of engagement dictate how U.S. forces are permitted to initiate and or continue combat

00:11:48.040 engagement with other forces.

00:11:49.700 So when you start the game of pew, pew, then the rules, they kick in.

00:11:53.940 Okay.

00:11:54.680 And, and rule breaking is punished with anything from a formal reprimands or demotion.

00:11:58.900 So like, oh, who cares?

00:12:00.140 Like, you know, you've just been formally like bad, bad dog to basically career stagnation,

00:12:06.260 getting fired or criminally prosecuted as a war criminal and, you know, sentenced to

00:12:11.120 death.

00:12:11.880 So like military personnel are going to really think twice about breaking the rules of engagement.

00:12:18.600 Like this is not just a.

00:12:19.460 We truly live in a society run by evil bureaucratic women who seeming as disposable. 1.00

00:12:24.900 I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, you'll see.

00:12:29.840 So they're, they're supposed to, like, I understand technically how they came to be.

00:12:36.620 They're supposed to ensure compliance with national policy and international law, like

00:12:41.420 the law of armed conflict and mission objectives while allowing for self-defense.

00:12:46.660 So it's generally like, okay, well there's, you know, like we have to honor this thing.

00:12:51.580 And so like, don't get the U S in a diplomatic, you know, bind because you did the thing.

00:12:56.900 And there are different types.

00:12:58.920 Okay.

00:12:59.040 So there's not just rules of engagement.

00:13:00.400 There's not like the rule book.

00:13:01.940 There are general rules of engagement.

00:13:05.080 And then there are supplemental rules of engagement, which were either for like specific operations

00:13:10.680 or for theaters.

00:13:12.180 So it's like, you know, settlers of Catan, but then like, or like monopoly, but like monopoly

00:13:17.000 this edition, or like, that's not even a good, because like the rules, you get like additional

00:13:20.960 rules on top of your rules.

00:13:22.860 Okay.

00:13:23.260 It's rules all the way down and rules all the way up and they also update.

00:13:28.240 And, and while the U S emphasizes really detailed standing rules of engagement with inherent

00:13:33.780 self-defense rights, other nations are a little bit more like broad or like they're, they're

00:13:39.100 more of what we thought, right.

00:13:40.260 They have like centralized control and less public detail or, and, and I think they're a

00:13:45.620 lot simpler.

00:13:46.220 I think the U S is unique in being both more open about what our rules are and very detailed

00:13:53.420 with them.

00:13:54.000 Like, I think our bureaucratic creep is worse than in other countries, like other countries

00:13:59.200 sometimes just use like a UN template or this one international one that, that I can mention

00:14:04.200 later.

00:14:05.200 But the important things to know is there's a lot of rules.

00:14:07.960 We can't even know them all because most of the documents are classified for obvious

00:14:12.100 reasons.

00:14:12.460 Like if the enemy knows explicitly your rules of engagement, they know exactly how to like,

00:14:17.760 you know, step right behind that line and like, Oh, no, no, no, no, boo, boo.

00:14:21.380 And like, you can't shoot them, which is really annoying.

00:14:24.600 And they, they also got uniquely difficult for a spell.

00:14:27.640 And this is what Pete Hegsath was dealing with.

00:14:29.660 This is what Emil Michael was referring to between 2009 and 2017 under Obama, they shifted

00:14:35.420 to be more restrictive through this NATO based directive designed to support counterinsurgency

00:14:40.480 and reduce civilian casualties.

00:14:42.760 So it supported clear and hold strategies and respect cultural sensitivities.

00:14:47.800 So this is where like the wokeness came in and they have really catchy names like CJC 0.53

00:14:54.380 SI 3121.01B really rolls off the tongue.

00:15:02.100 I love, by the way, one of the other comments was the paradigm of you break something, you buy

00:15:07.020 it, it's over.

00:15:08.200 Yeah. 0.99

00:15:08.660 If you hurt me and I punch you in the face, I'm not buying you dinner after. 0.99

00:15:11.880 I love that comment. 0.99

00:15:13.100 Yeah, for real though.

00:15:14.200 But that, that whole word salad of letters and numbers that I read off is the, the current

00:15:19.720 standing rules of engagement that are used by the U S armed forces.

00:15:24.740 They were issued in 2005 and they replaced CJC SI 3121.01A.

00:15:33.260 Okay.

00:15:33.900 So this is version B.

00:15:36.160 All right.

00:15:36.380 Can, are you already like dying from the bureaucratic overreach? 1.00

00:15:39.660 I want to shoot these people, whoever made this stuff up. 0.99

00:15:43.000 That is my target list. 1.00

00:15:44.940 I know it's, it's, it's really bad.

00:15:46.860 So again, this, this applied across Bush and Obama from 2009 to 2017 and Trump from 2017

00:15:54.380 to 2021 and the Biden heiress.

00:15:56.660 And what made it worse though is, and this is what Hegseth really complained about is

00:16:04.380 the 2009 ISAF tactical directive.

00:16:07.580 So this is on top of the, of the, I'm not even going to give you the, the standing rules

00:16:14.400 of engagement.

00:16:14.900 So already there's like big rule book rules of engagement on top of it, the 2009 ISAF tactical

00:16:20.840 directive.

00:16:21.220 This was issued by the native, sorry, NATO international security assistance force commander

00:16:28.000 who was general Stanley McChrystal.

00:16:30.780 This was issued in 2009 and it's key guidance warns against winning tactical victories, but

00:16:38.060 suffering strategic defeats by causing civilian casualties or excessive damage and thus alienating

00:16:44.100 the people.

00:16:44.960 In other words, it was like, you can't do anything that makes people mad, I guess.

00:16:49.840 So you can't team America, you can't blow up the pyramids and say, I got the terror.

00:16:55.020 This Jeep is filled with explosives.

00:16:57.080 We are going to take their lives and our own. 0.99

00:16:59.820 We're going to what? 0.88

00:17:02.580 Surprise, cockpings.

00:17:03.680 All right.

00:17:15.580 We did it.

00:17:17.340 Like, oh, is that our reputation?

00:17:19.600 Maybe we should like not do that.

00:17:20.980 And I can understand, you know, like.

00:17:23.520 I disagree.

00:17:24.460 We need to team America this all the way.

00:17:26.940 Yeah, no, this was the anti team America.

00:17:28.700 This is, yeah, that is exactly what the, the ISAF tactical directive was.

00:17:32.720 Commanders were informed that they had to scrutinize close air support.

00:17:37.220 So don't back people up.

00:17:38.740 And also indirect fire, fires like mortars or artillery were supposed to be sort of like

00:17:44.700 pulled back.

00:17:45.400 Like don't use that so much and limited, especially near residential areas or where

00:17:49.780 civilians might be present.

00:17:51.560 So clearly, and you can tell this from like all the news stories and all the, like everything

00:17:57.780 you heard about how things are playing out in Afghanistan, what did this mean about where

00:18:02.960 our enemies and people trying to hurt our efforts were going?

00:18:08.160 It meant they went straight to the residential areas, right?

00:18:11.280 Because they discovered, oh, for some reason, the US troops don't like fire their guns when

00:18:19.100 we go near the houses.

00:18:20.780 When we're hanging out in schools.

00:18:22.060 And what does that mean?

00:18:23.800 That means that they put civilians in their direct line of fire.

00:18:28.500 Like this is happening in Iran right now because all of the Indian guard facilities have been

00:18:33.660 just completely nuked.

00:18:36.220 They have begun to set up in schools and hospitals as their primary places of operation, essentially

00:18:42.920 because they're trying to cause things that optically look bad for the United States.

00:18:46.360 I want to know like a MAGA people when everyone's like, oh, you blew up a school, you blew up.

00:18:50.340 I don't care.

00:18:52.340 Okay.

00:18:52.600 This is a tyrannical government that has held this country hostage for 45 years. 0.88

00:18:57.280 Take your chances, blow up what you need to blow up.

00:19:00.980 Make sure the guard is decimated.

00:19:04.520 Yeah.

00:19:05.540 Again, this directive is sort of past us now, but during this time also, so in addition to

00:19:10.620 all that, troops are directed to break contact, wait out enemies, or use non-lethal escalation

00:19:17.060 of force, like signals and warning shots.

00:19:19.760 Like, I don't know, like, stop, don't shoot instead of immediate lethal action if feasible.

00:19:26.900 Right.

00:19:27.160 So like, I don't know, like a guy's pointing a gun at you or being like, I'm going to blow 0.70

00:19:31.740 this place up.

00:19:32.560 And you're like, please don't.

00:19:36.120 Please don't.

00:19:38.060 I would appreciate it.

00:19:40.140 It's like a gentle parenting.

00:19:42.520 Gentle parenting enters the military.

00:19:45.420 So you should not have done an episode this funny right after getting mouth surgery.

00:19:49.080 I know my mouth is dying right now, but I don't care.

00:19:51.620 Like my stitches are like this ragdoll of mouth. 0.99

00:19:54.300 I can't even, but here's the other thing.

00:19:56.120 So while self-defense rights were affirmed, quote, nothing in this directive is intended

00:20:01.360 to hinder any individual's right to self-defense, end quote.

00:20:04.560 But, but you can only engage in self-defense when troops face imminent danger of being overrun.

00:20:11.840 So it's, it's when they're charging at you.

00:20:14.820 It's not when they're like, you know, like they're there, but they haven't yet attacked.

00:20:21.440 So we have to wait.

00:20:23.100 Okay.

00:20:23.640 Yeah.

00:20:23.760 You've spotted, you've identified them.

00:20:25.460 You know, what's up.

00:20:26.480 Yeah.

00:20:27.180 We know their plans, you know, but they haven't started yet.

00:20:29.960 I mean, they might change their minds.

00:20:31.820 So, you know, don't stop them.

00:20:35.720 This is terrifying.

00:20:36.880 And also commanders, they, they couldn't further restrict guidance without approval.

00:20:41.960 So this, yeah, just like I, this turned the battlefield into this whole, like, wait, let

00:20:51.180 me call the lawyers first and until, and then like, you know, then this is why Hegseth essentially

00:20:57.400 told some of his troops apparently to just kind of ignore it.

00:21:01.020 Cause I don't know, you'd die if you would follow a lot of this advice.

00:21:05.540 And I, I, I understand again, why this was implemented.

00:21:09.880 People want to protect civilians.

00:21:12.680 They wanted to limit close air support against residential compounds.

00:21:17.480 They wanted to reduce collateral damage, but I think in the end, they probably caused more

00:21:22.880 of it because the enemy or, you know, whoever, your opponent, I, I'm not trying to demonize 0.63

00:21:29.320 anyone, but like, they're not dumb. 0.91

00:21:31.540 They're going to discover like, Oh, if I run into them, like if I shoot at you and then 0.97

00:21:36.380 I run into a house, you don't shoot at me anymore. 0.99

00:21:39.480 I shoot at you. 0.99

00:21:40.380 And I run into a mosque. 1.00

00:21:41.580 You don't shoot at me anymore.

00:21:42.460 It's like, you're in the green zone of like a game.

00:21:44.640 Like, Oh, Oh, I'm in the safe box.

00:21:47.100 Can you get me here?

00:21:49.580 That's actually what the rule was.

00:21:51.800 Yeah.

00:21:52.640 I mean, I'm just like, this, this changes the way I view.

00:21:56.000 They're literally playing by like vampire rules.

00:21:58.920 Like I tell you.

00:22:03.720 May I come in?

00:22:14.640 Yeah.

00:22:15.940 Oh, Oh, Oh, can't get me.

00:22:17.360 Like, and I know, I'm sure they figured this out.

00:22:19.680 You know, like the, these rules, you know, we, we try not to publish our rules of engagement

00:22:23.040 explicitly.

00:22:23.520 Like some parts of them were declassified, but like, of course, someone's going to start

00:22:28.500 noticing patterns.

00:22:29.440 And then they're going to tell all their friends, you know, and tell everyone and be like, well,

00:22:32.560 you know, clearly the U S military has some weird rules.

00:22:34.740 I ever could have imagined it was.

00:22:35.980 I know, I know you enter a mosque or a religious site and suddenly, Oh, you can't shoot. 0.99

00:22:42.340 I mean, I'm a big rule follower, you know, me, but like, if someone, for example, like,

00:22:48.840 I don't know, hurt a kid or a baby and then like stepped into a mosque, I'm going into that 1.00

00:22:54.420 mosque and I'm killing them. 1.00

00:22:55.480 And then I'm going to get court-martialed and then I'm going to get, I'm going to spend 0.99

00:22:59.160 my life in jail or something, you know, like this is, it's just, it's so insane to me that

00:23:04.560 we have been punishing our troops for, I mean, dealing, I mean, war is hell, right?

00:23:13.000 Like it's a terrible thing.

00:23:14.720 It's, it's, it's, it's a worst case scenario, but it, yeah.

00:23:18.920 Anyway, so there's, there's all these different, and like this, this isn't even all of the rules.

00:23:23.320 There's also the, the DOD law of work manual that was issued in June, 2015.

00:23:29.300 There is the U S F O R A R O E supplements that are Afghanistan specific.

00:23:36.220 And then there's also the international rules of engagement, which are primarily the, the,

00:23:42.000 the law of armed conflict, which is also known as international humanitarian law, which influences

00:23:49.880 some of our rules of engagement and also other countries go by it.

00:23:53.320 It has more reasonable core principles.

00:23:56.380 Like parties have to always distinguish between combatants and civilians and between military

00:24:02.060 objectives, objectives and civilian objections, like homes and schools and hospitals.

00:24:06.720 And you have to take into account proportionality.

00:24:09.880 Like even when attacking a lawful military objective, parties must not launch attacks expected

00:24:14.300 to cause incidental civilian death or damage.

00:24:17.380 That would be excessive in retaliation in the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated

00:24:23.540 that you can't cause unnecessary suffering, which I appreciate.

00:24:27.840 And then there also has to be, I don't care about that.

00:24:29.920 Cause of the suffering you want, whatever.

00:24:32.000 Well, here's the problem with all these rules.

00:24:34.440 And I, again, I understand that they come from a good place.

00:24:37.080 It's like, I, I, sharing gas, terrible, like all this stuff is horrible.

00:24:41.780 These rules, when we go back to like this foundational story that we were all taught in, in US history

00:24:47.720 as kids, that like we trounced the British in the American revolution. 0.75

00:24:51.600 And this is a gross oversimplification, obviously, because we didn't play by the rules and war doesn't

00:25:02.020 exactly involve playing by the rules all the time.

00:25:04.800 And also in these wars, like in Afghanistan, we were, we were playing by all these rules

00:25:11.440 and our opponent was not, and it didn't go well.

00:25:15.400 And a lot more people got hurt because of that.

00:25:17.600 And so I think that the really difficult thing is one, these rules backfire because your

00:25:22.220 enemy learns that you're playing by them and then exploits that knowledge.

00:25:25.640 But two, when the enemy doesn't play by those rules, like what's the point?

00:25:29.940 You know, the, what you need to do is finish the conflict as soon as possible to, to minimize

00:25:34.660 collateral damage.

00:25:36.340 And I mean, we've done that in the past in really horrific ways, like with Hiroshima and

00:25:40.860 Nagasaki, for example.

00:25:41.880 And I don't know in the larger calculation of things, if that did ultimately save a lot of

00:25:46.740 lives, but that was the reason behind it.

00:25:48.320 Right.

00:25:49.120 And so it's just, I just, I don't know, this just, this just changes the way that I've

00:25:52.280 looked at most recent wars.

00:25:54.440 And I find it really frustrating.

00:25:56.540 And I might even do a full episode on this is that people even dither about the morality

00:26:02.300 of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, maybe like the most moral act ever in history. 0.57

00:26:08.520 The death toll was not even that high.

00:26:11.460 It was, it was lower than other bombing campaigns during the war, which nobody complains about.

00:26:16.100 I'm talking here about civilian death toll.

00:26:18.480 We know from things like the battle of Midway and stuff like that, that the Japanese were

00:26:24.100 incredibly dug in, would die to the man and would kill civilians as our troops advance.

00:26:31.140 They basically had incredibly brutal.

00:26:32.600 They were so brutal.

00:26:33.520 Yeah.

00:26:34.120 Yeah.

00:26:34.460 They would.

00:26:34.840 You're certainly not playing by any of the rules of engagement discussed in, in any of

00:26:38.820 these international or U S based.

00:26:40.740 Yeah.

00:26:40.840 Um, if we had had to invade the mainland, the number of Japanese, and I'm not even talking 1.00

00:26:46.560 about like our own troops, like I shouldn't even need to talk about the Japanese, like 0.99

00:26:50.220 less of our troops had to die, do what we need to do.

00:26:52.940 Right.

00:26:53.420 But the number of Japanese who would have died in extremely much more brutal than was the

00:26:58.760 result of radiation from the bombs would have been astronomically higher in any, any realistic

00:27:03.720 at the hands of other Japanese, any realistic look at what the Japanese did to populations, 0.81

00:27:11.040 their own populations, as they were treated, as they were pushed back and, and, and, and

00:27:15.880 how far they fought for their land shows that.

00:27:19.340 And I get, I just get really sick of that whenever anyone's like, the bombs were so immoral.

00:27:25.480 Yeah.

00:27:25.620 But I mean, like those rules that I described, especially the, the short-term Afghanistan ones

00:27:29.860 were like, basically no, no preemptive strikes were allowed.

00:27:32.940 Everything had to be reactive, which is, you know, ultimately can cause so much more.

00:27:38.060 And the funny thing is, is it doesn't even change how you are going to come across in

00:27:43.100 the media, how you are going to come across.

00:27:45.860 You know, I point out that even by Iran's own number so far, we've killed 1,300 people

00:27:50.020 in this campaign by their own numbers.

00:27:52.160 They killed a thousand, sorry, 3,500 people who are just civilians protesting.

00:27:57.120 That's by their own numbers.

00:27:58.380 Now, keep in mind that the number that we killed is probably inflated.

00:28:01.540 And the number they killed is probably really low outside figures to put it at around 35,000.

00:28:06.760 So even if we go with their inflated number and the outside number of 35,000, you know,

00:28:11.100 we're looking at like one 30th, the number of not civilian deaths, but death in total from

00:28:17.760 our bombing campaign.

00:28:18.660 And, you know, this, this, to me, the fact that we have Iranians out there yelling from 0.90

00:28:25.700 their windows, death to the, to the new, to the newly appointed Ayatollah. 0.90

00:28:30.580 That answers it for me.

00:28:50.840 I know it's, I know it's, I know we're doing the right thing.

00:28:53.140 Well, what's impressive too, though, is that the Trump administration has found a way to

00:28:59.220 not only, I mean, one, they've eased up the rules, but two, they have found a way to circumvent

00:29:05.260 them by being so targeted, so strategic as to know like the exact room in which targets

00:29:13.000 are within underground bunkers.

00:29:15.240 Well, that's our Jews who are helping us know that.

00:29:17.480 I mean, U.S. intelligence has not always been the best historically, but.

00:29:20.660 We're getting better.

00:29:21.940 And I mean, I think just also like the mere fact that I, I heard about this in the first

00:29:27.040 place from a Silicon Valley tech dude who is now high up in the U.S. military is meaningful

00:29:35.220 that we are now beginning to bring in very outcome oriented.

00:29:41.760 Yeah.

00:29:42.280 One of our friends who we know from working in venture capital.

00:29:46.080 And Driscoll.

00:29:47.360 And Driscoll runs the Navy.

00:29:50.080 The Army, Malcolm.

00:29:52.260 He runs the Army.

00:29:53.420 So I can't remember.

00:29:54.880 I used to talk with him like every week.

00:29:56.720 So he's a good friend of mine.

00:29:58.360 Really cool guy.

00:29:59.280 I like him.

00:29:59.680 Like good family man.

00:30:00.800 He's the United States Secretary of the Army, Malcolm.

00:30:04.940 That's just the way I know him.

00:30:06.840 I know him as like cool based VC from like the South.

00:30:11.040 Well, again, that's, that's meaningful.

00:30:13.100 Like it gives me a lot of hope that like in the past, our military was really just getting

00:30:17.720 run into the ground by bureaucratic morass.

00:30:21.940 You know, we had leaders of the military feeling like their, their people were being more intact

00:30:27.940 or sorry, more attacked by the internal lawyers of the military than by like, you know, they weren't being defended.

00:30:37.860 They were being attacked internally.

00:30:39.220 From that to tech enabled, incredibly effective, hyper targeted missions and operations with minimal collateral damage that are able to circumvent a lot of these rules.

00:30:53.340 Because, you know, we're, we're not dealing in a situation where we have troops on the ground who are being shot at by people who are then dashing into a, you know, religious monument to like avoid being shot at.

00:31:05.860 And I, I really like that.

00:31:07.500 And it gives me hope of ways that you can circumvent bureaucratic morass because a lot of me is like, well, we just have to wait for everything to burn to the ground.

00:31:17.900 Right.

00:31:18.200 There's just, we have to just, it's going to crumble.

00:31:20.960 Everything's going to fall apart.

00:31:22.100 And then we'll have to start fresh.

00:31:23.960 And here there's a demonstration that actually you can take something that is so large and so huge and so complex and also so regimented as the U.S. military with all of its rules.

00:31:36.520 It's multiple rule books and still be this effective and broker in this new age of, of geopolitical strategy and war that we're seeing with Venezuela, with Iran, with our.

00:31:51.040 And joint actions with Israel.

00:31:54.600 Maybe, maybe there's hope.

00:31:57.700 What do you think?

00:31:58.200 Long term, what we're going to see is breaking rules saves lives.

00:32:01.780 Ignoring about all of this, because when your opponents know that you play by these rules, they then say, well, then now let's, let's put our offices in schools and stuff like this.

00:32:12.740 And the great thing is, is one of the reasons we've been able to just completely ignore the rules.

00:32:17.260 And I think that we should more aggressively going forwards is all of the sources that used to shame this source of behavior.

00:32:23.300 Nobody trusts anymore.

00:32:24.720 No matter what Trump does in a war, we now know that leftist media is going to say he's killing school kids.

00:32:31.560 He's killing hospital. 0.97

00:32:33.040 They don't, they don't, the Jews are doing, oh, they're blowing up school kids. 1.00

00:32:37.140 They're blowing up. 0.95

00:32:37.820 They'll say that no matter what you do.

00:32:39.400 You could have the cleanest war ever or the dirtiest war ever, the same articles are going to come out.

00:32:45.600 So, and, and the Iranians could do whatever, you know, you saw the left, like giving, literally fellating them as they were murdering tens of thousands of innocent protesters. 0.88

00:32:55.860 Right. Like, and not just murdering, like you're a woman in Iran, you walk around without a hijab, you get sent to an Iranian prison, you get graped, you get, you know, they didn't care about that. 0.54

00:33:04.600 They didn't care about women, right? 0.89

00:33:06.040 Like they literally do not care how evil the opponent is.

00:33:09.920 They do not care how good you try to be.

00:33:12.080 So just handle things in the way that is the most efficient.

00:33:16.780 That is my takeaway.

00:33:17.880 It is the most moral way to do things.

00:33:19.920 And as a government and as a people, we need to get back to doing things that way.

00:33:25.860 Well, fortunately that's apparently more where the rules of engagement have gone.

00:33:31.480 What Michael said in the all in podcast was things have shifted more to, as he put it, this Colin Powell era of use your judgment.

00:33:40.920 And I think in the end, you know, allowing people to make strategic decisions on the ground like that is the right call.

00:33:48.720 People don't want to hurt civilians.

00:33:51.000 They don't want to hurt kids and people in their homes.

00:33:53.640 They don't want to, they don't want to cause collateral damage.

00:33:56.600 And when they do, they're making a really tough call, but that's, that's probably to save more people.

00:34:03.300 Right.

00:34:03.960 So yeah, I just, this blew my mind when I heard about it.

00:34:09.760 And when I told you and some other people on a family call yesterday and you guys were like, oh, I don't know if that's true.

00:34:14.980 I'm like, okay, well, let's, yeah.

00:34:17.140 It's like, I want to, I want to look into this.

00:34:19.040 That doesn't sound true.

00:34:20.180 And then it's true.

00:34:21.520 What can you believe it?

00:34:23.160 Yeah.

00:34:24.940 Yeah.

00:34:25.740 Wild.

00:34:26.100 I would love to hear in the comments, any experiences, people that we have listened to this podcast to serve or have served in the military, what you're seeing on the ground now, what you saw on the ground in the past, because I mean, to whatever extent you can say something.

00:34:43.280 Cause again, it's a lot of this, just, it can't be published.

00:34:47.740 We don't know what people are being briefed on as they're serving in the military.

00:34:51.940 I'm really curious.

00:34:53.160 I want to know what the experience is like.

00:34:54.560 Cause my understanding is like, you know, as you're entering a theater of war, you know, you're going in, you're getting your orientation, whatever you're settling into your place.

00:35:02.960 And they're like, okay, by the way, these are all the rules.

00:35:05.080 You can't do this, this, and this.

00:35:06.360 I'm just really curious to see how it worked in practice because it's just so wild to me.

00:35:12.400 So thanks to everyone who always does share really interesting insights in the comments.

00:35:17.420 You guys are amazing.

00:35:18.440 And Malcolm, I love you a lot.

00:35:20.080 I love you a lot, Simone.

00:35:22.040 You are amazing and a great wife.

00:35:27.200 Thanks for.

00:35:28.160 Why does that make you smile?

00:35:29.860 I can't smile.

00:35:31.840 No, I don't want you to smile.

00:35:33.120 I don't know why.

00:35:33.620 I didn't mean to make you smile.

00:35:34.660 I feel bad about making you smile.

00:35:36.460 This giant.

00:35:37.520 No, it's my bruise is turning like yellow and gross.

00:35:40.520 I can't.

00:35:42.400 But yeah, you make me smile, even though it hurts.

00:35:45.660 Simone, I appreciate that you push through for our fans to give them great content, even when you're in enormous pain.

00:35:52.660 And I know that they appreciate it too.

00:35:56.340 There's a lot of people who take a lot of time to watch.

00:35:59.080 I mean, we put time into putting these together and trying to give you guys something that is, you know, exciting for you and intellectually stimulating.

00:36:05.980 And, you know, Simone, to get these out every day, even when you're recovering.

00:36:11.080 I mean, we had a whole week where we had to do prerecorded episodes when a lot was happening in Iran and stuff like that.

00:36:17.080 And I feel bad about it.

00:36:18.340 But, but because we, you know, we want to give you guys consistent quality.

00:36:22.940 I don't want you guys coming to one of these videos and just having one of us or just having, you know, and Simone is willing to put herself through so much to give that to you guys.

00:36:32.280 And it means the world to me, that I married somebody this honorable and this diligent.

00:36:38.620 Oh, thanks Malcolm.

00:36:40.880 I love you a lot.

00:36:41.900 And I loved this podcast and I love the really smart people who are part of the community too.

00:36:46.620 So it's all worth it.

00:36:48.160 And pain is just pain.

00:36:49.960 So, all right, I will go get dinner started and I love you lots.

00:36:55.240 Bye.

00:36:56.180 Bye.

00:36:58.200 So today, randomly Octavian mentioned karaoke.

00:37:02.840 And I was like, wait, how does he know about like karaoke parties?

00:37:06.180 We've never done karaoke in our house before.

00:37:08.960 And I asked him, do you know what karaoke means?

00:37:12.440 And he's like, yeah, it's when you're sick and you miss something.

00:37:17.760 When you're sick and you miss something?

00:37:20.300 Like he seemed to think that the, that karaoke is, is the word for absence.

00:37:27.540 But, okay.

00:37:30.480 Anyway.

00:37:30.900 He found out how to use a feature on the Alexa that we don't know how to use.

00:37:36.400 It's well, no, no, no.

00:37:37.080 I know how to use it.

00:37:38.040 It's the drop-in feature.

00:37:39.600 So we have a house full of smart speakers, both Google and Alexa.

00:37:44.100 Great.

00:37:44.620 Now anyone can just hack it, but whatever.

00:37:46.500 We know everyone's always listening where you can use it as an intercom, but you can also

00:37:51.500 use a drop-in feature where you can just listen in to any of the rooms that has this enabled.

00:37:56.880 And we use it all the time.

00:37:58.280 Like after our kids go to bed, like just the same night, last night, Octavian was very unhappy

00:38:04.980 about something.

00:38:05.840 And I heard him crying in the room and like normal parents have to get out of bed and walk

00:38:10.740 down to like their kid's room and talk to their kid.

00:38:13.460 Whereas I just pick up my phone and I drop into the room and I'm like, Hey, Octavian, what's

00:38:19.220 up?

00:38:19.420 And we have a talk and then he's fine.

00:38:20.860 And I don't have to get out of bed and he's fine.

00:38:22.920 And we just talk through the speaker and then he goes off and does this thing.

00:38:26.840 But unfortunately he discovered the drop-in feature through audio commands, which I didn't

00:38:31.700 know was possible.

00:38:32.980 And so like, it's the middle of the night and I like hear this voice through my dreams,

00:38:37.940 this like little child voice talking about stickers and batteries for his Chinook helicopter.

00:38:43.260 And I'm like, what, what, like what is going on?

00:38:47.160 And I'm just like, go to sleep, Octavian. 0.96

00:38:49.220 And he's like, okay, mom, drop out.

00:38:51.620 And I'm like, oh God, he's dropped in on the Alexa device.

00:38:54.920 I can't swear.

00:38:55.760 Where did he learn those voice commands?

00:38:57.900 I don't know.

00:38:59.260 I don't know.

00:39:00.220 It could be that maybe when I call in and drop in on his device in his room, it says

00:39:07.360 something like dropping in and then my voice comes in.

00:39:10.220 I don't know.

00:39:12.260 I'll have to figure that out.

00:39:13.640 But now he uses it all the time.

00:39:15.360 He's unlocked a new skill, though.

00:39:18.640 He doesn't understand what karaoke is.

00:39:20.600 I mean, I explained it to him, but he's probably still going to think it's what absence is.

00:39:24.400 So he is obsessed with conquering other countries.

00:39:27.420 It is talks about it all the time when he sees land, when he sees maps.

00:39:33.560 Yeah, he's the kid we should have named Manifest Destiny, though we can't because it's both too far right and too hippie.

00:39:43.720 Yeah, we really wanted a kid named Manifest Destiny.

00:39:46.540 By the way, can I, tonight, is the dumpling lasagna ready?

00:39:50.240 And I'm going to do that with steamed edamame with sea salt.

00:39:53.280 Actually, we do need to get through the roast beef.

00:39:59.120 Oh, I'll make you another sandwich.

00:40:00.800 What I would do is not a full sandwich, but roast beef and white bread, I think would actually go really well with the dumpling.

00:40:10.900 Yeah, because there's only one ramekin.

00:40:13.460 So, okay.

00:40:15.740 Just roast beef on white bread, or do you want that with mustard and mayo?

00:40:18.940 I mean, maybe some mustard and mayo.

00:40:20.440 Let's try that.

00:40:21.120 Just heavily layered.

00:40:23.280 Just the rest of it.

00:40:26.320 I don't know the rest of it.

00:40:27.720 I mean, I was thinking of it as like a light, almost sort of like dipper sandwich, basically.

00:40:32.360 Like, I think the flavors would actually go really well.

00:40:35.300 You can't dip something in lasagna.

00:40:37.960 Well, no, you take a bite of one, then you take a bite of the other.

00:40:40.920 You're a strange man.

00:40:42.020 Do you still want the edamame?

00:40:43.760 No.

00:40:45.480 Why did you buy it?

00:40:46.680 You buy it, you get all these ideas in your head.

00:40:49.200 And then we have like a freezer full of stuff.

00:40:51.480 I might want edamame later.

00:40:53.300 It's just the edamame thing going to expire and the sandwich meat is.

00:40:56.660 Yeah.

00:40:57.360 No, that's wise.

00:40:58.920 Okay.

00:40:59.400 That's the plan then.

00:41:02.980 Let me gird my loins here. 0.85

00:41:04.880 It's funny.

00:41:05.460 Somebody was like in the comment because we had a, well, I just love seeing them together.

00:41:09.560 A couple so clearly made for each other.

00:41:11.240 And of course, salty people on Reddit saw this and were like, they, they, that wife is clearly a year away from divorce.

00:41:18.440 Right?

00:41:18.920 Like he treats her like a slave.

00:41:21.460 It's like, you about to leave me, Simone?

00:41:24.540 Is that, that where we are right now?

00:41:25.820 Don't make me laugh.

00:41:29.960 It will hurt.

00:41:30.780 I'm already going to be spitting up blood after doing this podcast.

00:41:33.960 Please.

00:41:37.820 Do you want me to do one?

00:41:38.900 I have another one prepped.

00:41:40.000 No, I'm good.

00:41:41.300 I'm good enough.

00:41:42.320 It's just never going to, like, I just had to push through this.

00:41:45.500 So you ready?

00:41:45.920 No, let me do one.

00:41:53.880 Let me do one.

00:41:54.240 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:41:55.480 We're doing it.

00:41:55.940 Okay.

00:41:56.080 Ready?

00:41:56.480 Okay.

00:41:57.000 All right.

00:42:13.520 Titan.

00:42:14.320 She's up to something.

00:42:15.920 What's up, Indy?

00:42:41.840 Yeah.

00:42:44.240 What do you think, guys?

00:42:45.360 Indy, can you go away?

00:42:51.320 No.

00:42:55.380 Oh, girl.

00:42:56.980 I am supposed to do.

00:42:59.080 You want the sand?

00:42:59.920 I am supposed to.

00:43:04.200 Oh, sweet darling.

00:43:05.840 I am supposed to.

00:43:07.960 Professor, what should we do?

00:43:09.360 It's heavy.

00:43:10.800 Girl.

00:43:11.300 Girl.

00:43:11.800 Can you do it, Octavian?

00:43:23.180 Oh, you can do it.

00:43:25.860 Oh, you can do it.

00:43:27.300 Oh, you can do it.

00:43:27.320 Suddenly, it is a bear.

00:43:36.920 Oh, you can do it.

00:43:43.820 Hey, wait.

00:43:46.340 Hey, wait.

00:43:47.300 Go under Indy.

00:43:48.380 Go under Andy.

00:43:49.480 Okay, okay, okay.

00:43:52.700 Indy, do you want some milk?

00:43:55.440 You want to slide?

00:43:56.860 Okay.

00:43:57.420 Go under it.

00:43:58.920 Go under it.

00:44:00.060 Go under it.

00:44:00.680 I want to see the sand.

00:44:02.640 Okay, ready?

00:44:05.440 You don't want to slide?

00:44:10.820 You want to sit right there?

00:44:13.100 Okay, that's fine.

00:44:15.680 You can do that.

00:44:16.660 That's fine.

00:44:19.480 No.

Based Camp - March 10, 2026

＂Keep Fights Fair＂ Forced on the USA Military By Karens

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