Based Camp - Leaflit： Streaming, Controversies, and Creating a TTRPG

00:00:00.000 hello this is malcolm and simone and i have a guest here today who is one of the channels that

00:00:03.940 i actually watch the most outside of our own which is leaflet from leaflet and asari and if

00:00:08.780 you haven't seen her channel she does well i'd say like right leaning by today's standards takes 1.00

00:00:15.520 maybe not by old standard takes on a lot of topics but she has a lot of experience in i guess i'd

00:00:21.620 call it nerd culture early in her career she worked at companies like riot games and blizzard

00:00:26.180 i know you designed lux lux is one of the ones that i that's probably the that's probably the

00:00:31.520 most people know about yeah looks yeah and then the spartan looking one yeah pantheon before the

00:00:37.320 rework yeah and i really like you and one as an example of and i wanted to talk with you as well

00:00:45.980 as through your evolving fan base as somebody i think you started in streaming right like like

00:00:53.820 like streaming video games and stuff yeah mostly video games i started actually i think

00:00:59.160 2011 2012 holy moly yeah there is a site called own 3d back then that it was like before there

00:01:09.420 wasn't twitch twitch became twitch is justin but their competitor was own 3d and then they folded

00:01:16.760 and then i i messaged justin i was like hey can i get like partner because partner on own they're

00:01:21.480 like nah and i'm like damn it so then i kind of just stopped streaming for a bit and then yeah it

00:01:26.940 ended up coming back later so you built your audience on streaming and now you've i don't know

00:01:33.240 is youtube like your main goal right now or do you mostly stream and youtube's like a secondary

00:01:36.920 thing for you the funny thing is is they're they're they're kind of separate because i do the live

00:01:44.840 streams but i actually don't manage too much on youtube i don't really have time for it because

00:01:50.360 i'm as you know i'm working on like the other the game projects and we'll also have like novels

00:01:54.800 coming out and stuff so we're working on all i'm working on that stuff because i'm like the lore

00:01:58.700 person for the company so i'm working on that you're doing like a game we had archon recently who's

00:02:04.200 also doing a game we're doing a game i like this i like this new thing i'm like you know after that

00:02:09.000 everyone was like all the all the like based influencers need to be making games because this is

00:02:14.780 where we're going to get like interesting ideas what is actually before we go further i want you to

00:02:18.480 talk a bit about this game because i'm just interested in like sure it's a it's basically

00:02:23.800 i i play a lot of like tabletop a lot of dungeons and dragons pathfinder and some other japanese games

00:02:29.860 and i want we wanted to make like our dream game so our idea was to make that game but like free to

00:02:37.220 play and uh constant updates because like one problem that like like dungeons and dragons has for

00:02:42.760 instance is everyone has to get the book so sometimes you have people that don't have the book

00:02:48.220 and then updates like say there's like a really broken mechanic in the game they can't really

00:02:53.100 update it you have to update it in like a magazine right and then now nobody has the same rules because

00:02:58.160 not everybody saw the magazine so the idea that behind our games everything's online and we patch

00:03:04.320 every like two to three weeks so there's like new classes new items new races being added all the time

00:03:08.560 that's fun okay wait so what what what's the theming of the universe actually everything is linked

00:03:14.840 so the stream like like me and like my mom and the novels they're all linked in the same universe

00:03:21.880 well okay i don't know the novel so tell me about is this a fantasy universe is this a generic fantasy

00:03:27.780 what's the twist on the generic what's the it's kind of like like uh it's fantasy but has like high

00:03:32.820 power and like high high magic sort of people that like things like anime would like it yeah yeah

00:03:38.520 okay i i think i know what you mean when you say high power do you mean sort of like high elf culture i.e.

00:03:43.780 like high culture high power fantasy like there's a lot of like magic and like like some abilities

00:03:49.400 are super ridiculous like there's a chronomancer class in our game and they can just stop time

00:03:53.720 and like they can they can just completely stop like a non so that we have a differentiation between

00:03:59.380 like heroic units which are like the like player characters and then the non one's called grunts and

00:04:06.800 almost all the enemies are grunts except for like bosses and grunts are basically susceptible to like

00:04:12.220 these big like magic like insta kills and like time freezes and stuff like that so like the dnd world

00:04:18.060 before the i forget that event i don't actually the truth is i don't know much about the dnd lore

00:04:24.680 itself because i've always homebrewed i've always been like that person to homebrew everything so like

00:04:29.280 hold on you you at least played through that recent dnd game i did i did i played that one yeah

00:04:35.320 boulder's gate okay so so it was implied in boulder's gate sorry i just i'm so i am a nerd

00:04:40.540 for lore i love deep lore stuff me too i love it okay okay so dnd actually the lore is not that good

00:04:47.280 there's some like really good lore if you're like into lore i can be like oh you got to go into this

00:04:50.540 lore like this lore is great dnd top tier lore is either going to be vampire the masquerade

00:04:55.440 absolutely top tier lore or who else has top tier lore warhammer 40k has top tier lore

00:04:59.960 not warhammer fantasy and but anyway so indeed they mentioned it a few times in this is that the

00:05:05.120 world used to have like tons of magic and then the god of magic i think her name was mithra she's 1.00

00:05:08.840 the one that wess's face like had a crush on or something anyway like the world somebody cast like

00:05:13.140 a two high level spell and it ended up breaking oh yes to try to like take her power or something 0.63

00:05:18.040 and it ended up removing her for a split second but then that ended up like causing all the cities 0.88

00:05:22.400 to crash because they were all floating and then she made it so no one could use top tier magic anymore

00:05:26.600 anyway people will probably draw that comparison to your world it's it's it's possible i mean like

00:05:33.360 the whole world actually came about from dnd games so we played dnd for like years like this this

00:05:40.000 campaign i think i have i have some ridiculous amount of hours in like world 20 but i dm'd multiple

00:05:45.540 campaigns in this world and then that world became the foundation for like the streams and then the

00:05:51.020 novels and then the and then we're like let's just make a ttrpg of it so we have like all of it is

00:05:55.640 like kind of the same interconnected world yeah what i really find interesting about what you're

00:06:01.200 doing here or what we're doing or what arc's doing at the moment is at this really interesting part in

00:06:05.640 terms of gaming media history where there's this huge market opportunity because you look at what

00:06:11.260 you're doing right and like for example dnd pathfinder stuff like that should own this market but dnd has

00:06:17.840 like you know made orcs like orcs were racist so we're gonna have them be like normal the the

00:06:22.960 pathfinder guy said that he learned that like jd vance is like apparently like a super nerd and

00:06:28.120 like into magic the gathering and the guy who created pathfinder or something thought that he

00:06:31.880 might play his game so he was like well this isn't a game for him or people like him um and i'm like if

00:06:36.880 you're just like killing like like the huge part of the nerd audience then they've created this huge

00:06:41.380 opportunity and i look at video games in this there was this article in wired this last year 2024 the year

00:06:46.300 that killed gaming and then i like go and look at the charts and i was like did people spend less

00:06:49.920 in gaming in 2024 no it went up in fact they spent double what they spent 10 years ago so how did

00:06:55.600 it kill gaming oh you just mean that all of the big players got wiped off the table in one year

00:06:59.680 like could there be a better year to go into things yeah it's it's it's crazy because i remember when we

00:07:05.380 were developing the game we were like did the dungeons and dragons just blow themselves up like in

00:07:11.100 the middle of what yeah just like all all the stuff like they've been doing and like there was

00:07:17.600 like that like wheelchair accessible dungeons it just allows for that kind of takes you out of the 1.00

00:07:22.000 fantasy and tries to like inject like like some real like people play games like dungeons and

00:07:29.160 dragons because you want to experience like you know something else right yeah because sometimes life

00:07:34.540 sucks you want to get away from it right and it's like they're trying to like re-inject like the same

00:07:39.000 things and and i think a lot of it is at least in in my observation it seems like there's a certain 0.59

00:07:45.440 subset of people that have to play literally themselves in like games and it's it's so weird to me i just

00:07:54.300 because because their life is a power fantasy um when you can force no i mean i think that there's a

00:07:59.940 class of people that has learned certain hacks i mean what do we all want in life but validation

00:08:05.460 and there's a certain like like for other people to see us the way we see ourselves there's a certain

00:08:10.080 class that has learned social hacks for forcing validation but once you have fallen into a category

00:08:15.920 where you can force other people to validate you in the real world like it's very hard i think to break

00:08:21.220 this way of seeing yourself within a game setting because there's no point for a power fantasy or

00:08:26.000 anything like that are you guys familiar with like tumblr tumblr yes i used to i used to i've tumblr

00:08:33.520 in action i was obsessed with but i was also like into tumblr like unironically as well because i love

00:08:38.560 like nerdy subcultures like we've done some recent videos on stuff like the omega verse and stuff like

00:08:42.940 that's how much i'm into like that's a hilarious one okay i didn't see that video you guys made

00:08:47.840 i want to hear more about tumblr continue so like it's kind of funny because i wasn't

00:08:54.580 personally like into tumblr other than just like kind of joking around but my brother was so i got

00:09:00.100 to see like kind of all of this stuff kind of forming and like bubbling up to the top

00:09:05.480 right you know what i mean you saw like all the all that stuff happening and you're like

00:09:10.840 yeah it's just crazy people on tumblr it's like there's no way and then all of a sudden started

00:09:14.360 to become like more and more mainstream like wait a minute what's going on here it was like one of

00:09:19.340 those like pools that you hear about in like those those stories about early life where it's like

00:09:23.640 bubbling and like you hear about all the organic compounds and everything and now it's like

00:09:27.740 yeah walking around like eating people it's like i didn't think that would turn into dinosaurs

00:09:34.240 i remember distinctly like the time like the i know the exact moment i was like i was like

00:09:40.540 oh what the hell is this and it was when my brother got into an argument with someone and

00:09:46.860 he comes out of it and he's like how can they argue with me i'm you know i'm gay and i'm a person

00:09:53.700 of color so how can they even how can they argue with me and i remember thinking like what does that

00:09:58.520 mean like what do you mean they can't argue with you that doesn't make any sense right like like

00:10:03.740 that doesn't make your argument like automatically correct or automatically wrong you know it and it was

00:10:11.520 so weird seeing like that kind of intersectionality just kind of like sneak its way into like you know

00:10:16.840 but i i agree but i think it's so natural to human thinking you know i think good games can really help

00:10:22.480 you understand different time periods and i'm playing through a game again right now expeditions

00:10:25.980 rome which i played before when it takes place in in rome and there's all this stuff around like the

00:10:30.940 words you use for people or talking to people of different classes and and it just sounds like so much

00:10:35.560 oh you know i'm of the praetorian class how dare he question anything i say like and i think that

00:10:41.820 people in human history always did this and if anything the equality that we enjoyed growing up

00:10:47.040 was a historic anathema and i think that if if anything like society might be benefiting because

00:10:54.480 the class that chose to assort their authority other others truths to be like inefficient and witless

00:11:00.160 and is quickly being deposed uh one of the people said to me and i just can't believe that we're

00:11:05.320 living and it's so true that the if you think about it like yes we live through like as we call the

00:11:10.680 urban monocultures control of our society for you know the past i'd say like six seven years maybe

00:11:16.520 maybe a little bit longer but in terms of like a cultural force dominating the largest empire in the

00:11:23.500 world at the time it's the shortest any has ever held power by like the most astronomical margin ever

00:11:31.360 it's it can't the problem is it can't hold up all all it needs is a little bit of light once you

00:11:37.160 actually see it and you understand what they're talking about of course it it doesn't hold up to

00:11:41.380 anything so yeah well but we need to worry about this as well and it's one thing i always point about

00:11:45.740 like people don't like all this complaint about woke right stuff but i think people need to call it out

00:11:49.400 like these people on the right who are like now we've won now we need to like matt walsh recently

00:11:54.040 he did a thing saying that like guys who are into video games are like gay and then he said yeah or

00:12:00.620 like effeminate and he was like and the guys not that there's anything wrong as being gay he meant 0.59

00:12:04.220 that to mean like effeminate and less than masculine and then there's there's the other one that was like 0.97

00:12:09.180 last year he did one on like how guys who are into anime are all like pathetic and yeah i remember that 0.84

00:12:13.400 i remember that one then he people like yeah just need to be expelled like we need to you know push

00:12:20.280 back or we're going to end up exactly where they were this is i actually wanted to make a video on

00:12:25.440 this for the longest time about how one of my biggest worries coming out of this is just like

00:12:30.320 the pendulum swinging way too hard the other side yeah the other way because again like i'm you know

00:12:36.140 i'm not i'm not like even though people might say i am i'm i don't really consider myself to be that

00:12:41.700 far right so it's like i i don't want to see the the pendulum come back and swing and hurt a bunch

00:12:46.860 of people that had nothing to do with any of this you know absolutely yeah but i would say that you're

00:12:51.260 actually like watching your content you're you're pretty centrist right these days yes yeah i wouldn't

00:12:57.460 even say that you're like you're to the left of the right you're pretty much like jd vance oh yeah

00:13:02.040 it's like it's like the meme with elon musk it's like it's it's like you're you're kind of there in

00:13:09.300 the center and then things pull so far to the left that now you find yourself more on that side right

00:13:15.300 yeah but i think we're in a good place because i don't remember when the left was gaining power

00:13:19.060 like anybody saying like hey are we going too far with this whereas i hear this sort of across the

00:13:24.220 board and sort of my influencer friends now and i've seen very little willingness to budge

00:13:29.500 actually sorry zero willingness to budge on stuff like the new rights position on things like gay rights

00:13:35.340 like absolutely nothing like the old right they're like okay and now you're going to change your 0.97

00:13:38.460 position on gay rights fuck no i'm not changing my position on gay rights like what what are you 0.98

00:13:41.860 smoking so hopefully we can maintain the position but we'll see so hold on i want i want to do what 0.99

00:13:47.420 i originally wanted to do which was like do a study of your career and sort of what it felt like

00:13:52.980 starting as a streamer because you didn't start with political intentions at all yes and how you

00:13:58.020 moved the various controversies how they moved you etc okay uh so so the thing is a lot one sentiment

00:14:06.060 that i i've heard is like oh like you know now that trump won she's like this but the thing is i've

00:14:12.040 always talked about these things it's usually during like a late night session where i'm playing a

00:14:17.300 different game and then we'll be talking about this stuff so i've always kind of talked about this

00:14:21.620 stuff and always kind of held the same beliefs it's it really is kind of just coincidence because

00:14:27.100 what happened was again like i said because i'm working on the game and i'm working on the novels i didn't

00:14:33.300 have time for youtube so two of my my mods one of one of which is my producer approached me and they

00:14:39.720 said hey i want to learn how to edit videos so like can i can i run the channel because you're not using

00:14:45.540 the channel that much and i said okay sure i you know fine so they basically take whatever i i put

00:14:52.480 up and then they take it they edit it they they throw it up they do all the thumbnails for me

00:14:57.840 and then we split it that's hold on pause on this before you go further because earlier you're like

00:15:04.360 i don't pay much attention to youtube and i was like you do daily fully edited videos

00:15:08.160 throw this i don't pay much attention now i'm learning it's one of your digits okay that makes

00:15:12.780 sense i i do i do some like sometimes i'll do an edit on the video but it's mostly like it's mostly

00:15:19.880 you know my my editor now who's originally just one of one of my mods from twitch and and one of my

00:15:26.240 producers that are kind of working on it and they're they're they're helping me out with it

00:15:29.960 because i just i just because i'm i'm taking care of so many other projects and and also like we have

00:15:36.080 like a company like like our company like angel sword studios is like we actually like we actually

00:15:40.700 manage like another talent as well and we're getting a new one like like soon yeah like like

00:15:45.980 yeah thank you but it's it's again it's like so much stuff that is really kind of a godsend that

00:15:52.880 they were like you know you're not really using the youtube channel and like you know you could

00:15:59.740 probably expand on that just talking about what you like talking about anyway and plus i mean my my

00:16:05.880 my editors are are you know they're kind of more politically aligned with me so they're like oh we

00:16:11.760 want to see more of that stuff so then they wanted to help create it and that explains so much that also

00:16:17.400 explains how you don't see yourself because so i know you from youtube only and in youtube you are

00:16:21.600 like 100 percent of political commentators um the way that they've chosen to pull your clips

00:16:26.860 it's 100 percent political commentary i mean we were doing that before too right we were we were

00:16:33.180 already kind of making that kind of content before the before the election and then the election hit

00:16:38.540 and then it was like there was just so much news right like there's news every every hour and i'm

00:16:43.120 sure you guys know about it like as content creators in the same space there's just like rapid fire news

00:16:47.560 over and over and over again so there's always something to talk about so if you are not a

00:16:51.420 youtube commentator you will not understand the struggle of this simone and i really want to

00:16:56.520 maintain a channel oh by the way if you're wondering why she's not talking much in this

00:17:00.100 video it's because the kid's crying really loudly she'll mention that at the end of the video and

00:17:03.620 you'll be like oh that's why she hasn't been talking but simone and i really want our channel

00:17:07.540 to engage with philosophy engage with religion engage with science engage with demographic trends

00:17:14.880 and engage with politics and yet so much is happening so quickly it feels like we can only

00:17:20.980 afford to engage in politics right now it's like okay so for example yesterday we did a video on the

00:17:26.380 usa controversy that's huge right like that definitely needed a video but today what i'm skipping doing a

00:17:32.880 video on shutting down the u.s department of education and the u.s department of consumer protection

00:17:39.200 like that just doesn't even deserve an episode because just so much is happening so quick we

00:17:44.240 literally might just end up not doing an episode on that which is wild okay so i want to keep going

00:17:50.660 you doing it with your mom because we plan on doing this with our kids as they get older can you talk

00:17:54.840 about how you got pulled into that oh yeah sure so me and my mom have always played games together

00:17:59.460 like mmos and like we've always watched anime together and as you guys know doing cognitive

00:18:04.700 creation it's like such a busy job like you barely have time to do anything so it got to a point where

00:18:09.940 i wasn't able to i wasn't able to spend as much time with my mom as i wanted to like again we used

00:18:14.080 to play games together all the time and it just became like oh i can't because i have to work at

00:18:17.960 the stream i have to you know edit videos or or whatnot and then one day i had a suggestion i was

00:18:24.340 like what if you just stream with me and so she was like you know i'll give it a try so we got her a

00:18:29.260 little picture and she put it up there and she actually enjoyed it so after that i was like okay

00:18:34.180 we'll just get you like you know your own your own setup for it and then like we can stream together

00:18:38.620 we'll do a thing on sunday and so that's why we play every sunday together and sometimes she

00:18:43.480 streams on her own now because she actually likes it herself now so yeah that's awesome okay okay and

00:18:49.400 then talk about the early controversies that begin moving you potentially more politically sure so

00:18:55.520 probably the biggest one was the discord one which i i did a video on that one yeah i did a video on

00:19:03.080 that recently on the monkey one yeah it's funny too because when i released that video a bunch of

00:19:08.240 people were saying like oh that was me that was me i was the person that like that they were getting

00:19:13.980 mad at and then you you stepped in and he was like that was crazy and it's it's so wild because

00:19:21.540 i didn't it's crazy how much impact one person can have like one person that just has bad intentions

00:19:28.160 yeah okay so i'll tell you so i'll do a quick summary of this and then i'll tell you a quick

00:19:32.280 story so the event she's talking about was essentially somebody this is during the blm riots

00:19:36.220 that was like they're acting like monkey like literally meaning not like like the black people 0.99

00:19:41.120 or anything but just like the rioters you know chimping out right like what what does that word 0.94

00:19:46.020 mean right and you know people attack the person you defended them i think courageously i don't know

00:19:51.600 if i would have taken that risk and then you never you never walked back from that position

00:19:56.220 and then like a crazy person decided to try to ruin your life and like got your discord taken

00:20:00.160 down but like we have a lot of do you know razib khan by the way he's a famous geneticist anyway he

00:20:05.800 used to work for the new york times and now he does like a genetics blogs yeah he talks about well

00:20:10.540 the types of things you're not supposed to talk about in genetics he's been on our show before

00:20:14.080 he's done like he mostly talks about differences in ethnicities but like down to like really granular

00:20:19.920 levels like different casts in in in india and stuff like that anyway so he he has this

00:20:26.200 one crazy person where whenever he gets a new investor or whenever he's working at a new

00:20:30.360 company they will call the company so he always warns someone when they hire him they go you're

00:20:35.460 gonna get a call from rebecca here's a script of most of what she's gonna say and this is just

00:20:40.760 something he has to live with his entire life yeah it's it's such a pain like having to having to

00:20:46.500 deal with that like yeah oh what's worse is for some of my friends so there's this thing called the

00:20:51.620 rationality wiki i don't know if you've heard of it they figured out how to do like really well

00:20:55.420 in like seo results and so for a long time a lot of my friends because they would always come up first

00:20:59.820 in search results even though it's just won by like one crazy former neo-nazi actual former neo-nazi

00:21:05.760 by the way who's now like the same but like woke and so he just attacks all of these people and he

00:21:11.680 gets it to come up very first like all of the sins they've ever committed oh my god that would just

00:21:16.120 like destroy your career like i'm so like lucky i got a wikipedia article before that happened to me

00:21:19.800 because now i can never be trapped but just like wow man that's scary anyway uh continue continue

00:21:26.620 so this happens to you how do you like internally in terms of your like ideology respond to this event

00:21:34.160 it's kind of rough because i'm not gonna lie if i'm i would be lying if i said that i it didn't affect

00:21:41.220 me of course like you know you work so hard on on your content and building up your community and

00:21:47.120 you know seeing it kind of all just evaporate because of one person is kind of it was it was

00:21:54.740 distressing but at the same time it's like i'm not gonna let someone say that i'm not gonna i'm not

00:22:02.220 gonna admit to something that i didn't do right and they were trying to they were trying to get me

00:22:06.980 to say like oh yeah i yeah i'm sorry for being racist i'm like i'm not racist though so i'm like

00:22:12.000 i'm not gonna say that and it's it's kind of

00:22:15.180 but it's so weird just like how how it went and like you know they they they basically told me

00:22:24.000 oh you should go look into some you know kkk and nazi sites to find out like what what racist

00:22:29.960 terms are like what are you talking about it's like how do you know like like what you can or

00:22:36.000 can't say when the context doesn't matter right it is it is so interesting to me and there's there's

00:22:41.800 a few examples of this that like are very very confusing to me so here's one example and who

00:22:47.420 knows if i get tarred and feathered for this but it's the term tar baby so people will say that tar

00:22:53.940 baby is a racist term for black people and i'm like yes it is a racist it was for a brief period in

00:23:03.060 like like an american history of racism for black people but it hasn't been for a long time but the

00:23:07.620 reason why i hold so much hatred to the people who want to remove the term from the lexicon

00:23:12.220 is the term tar baby comes from the stories of briar rabbit which was a black traditional african

00:23:20.040 children's story that we captured in the american lexicon and is a truly african contribution

00:23:28.740 to the the sort of american history whenever somebody talks about being thrown in the briar

00:23:34.600 patch or whenever somebody talks about a tar baby they are referencing uh traditional african uh songs

00:23:42.420 and and and and and myths that people fought so hard to bring over on the slave ships that people

00:23:48.660 fought so hard to give to their kids and give to their kids um in the most brutal of conditions

00:23:54.980 and after all that that that can just be erased by like a woke person is to me really really hurtful

00:24:01.680 because somebody at one point decided to use that as a racist hurt i mean it's it's kind of funny

00:24:07.860 because you saw the same thing with a lot of branding right like you've got the the chiefs for instance

00:24:12.720 aunt jemima uncle ben all of these things that were being kind of erased from and you know not even

00:24:18.180 you know with the case of was it the redskins they even they even wanted that right the the local

00:24:24.600 tribe did want that yeah yeah so it's it's kind of funny how it's it's sort of just like a

00:24:30.780 a crusade that's not even for them one of the yeah no one of the craziest examples of this is when

00:24:38.220 the blm movement was like we need to protect black culture and as such we need to like de 0.99

00:24:43.500 de-normalize the nuclear family like de-normalize the idea of a husband and wife raising kids together

00:24:49.380 and i was like did you know that in the 1970s black people had uh one half the rate of unmarriage

00:24:56.720 as white people in terms of kids the kids born out of wedlock were at one half the rate of white

00:25:01.080 couples that this current idea that it's like somehow black culture to be unmarried is just a

00:25:05.740 completely modern phenomenon and completely downstream of wokeism and it's it's messed up

00:25:10.280 that now they're trying to like cauterize this change anyway and i mean i mean the the fact of the

00:25:17.560 matter is like if you distill it down it it's a disservice to all of those communities like it

00:25:24.360 it doesn't do anyone anyone better to kind of promote like you know that kind of that kind of

00:25:29.940 behavior because it it's it's not good for people like financially spiritually emotionally like it just

00:25:36.700 it dehumanizes like everyone involved yeah well okay so here's one that i haven't heard that much

00:25:42.920 about and i am actually very interested about is your hogwarts controversy okay because it sounds

00:25:47.540 like you you personally at least haven't really crossed the like trans skepticism rubicon yet

00:25:52.280 and so you that that that puts you in a position where i had assumed that most of your audience

00:25:58.440 wouldn't be particularly surprised given the stuff that i hear you say you would watch something like

00:26:05.200 a hogwarts or say like i'm not gonna boycott this but apparently a significant portion of your

00:26:09.920 audience was surprised by this or at least a sliver enough to cause a a hubbub was that what caused it

00:26:15.880 or was it like the beast tuber community that caused it or like how did this get started and why was it

00:26:20.700 seen as weird so like the the there's in the vtuber community and just like kind of online on like the

00:26:28.520 loud vocal minority of like gaming there's a lot of people that you know they they they have

00:26:34.580 they have interests in their narrative not being tampered with at all and you know they they kind

00:26:42.640 of spread the whole jk rowling is is evil and she sell these bad things and i think it's 1.00

00:26:48.100 sorry i'm trying to formulate like how to say it but it's difficult you're entering a verbal trap

00:26:55.020 right now yeah yeah i have i have laid out from the floor it's the depth for me leaflet it's like

00:27:01.820 it's and the thing is i i really the funny thing is is like i have friends who are trans and like i

00:27:09.780 have nothing against against that i i draw i draw a very strict line of like when it comes to to

00:27:15.640 children because you know there's i mean there's there's that's a whole different thing right

00:27:19.880 but just in terms of of hogwarts i think it's just the the vocal people like who just don't

00:27:26.440 like jk rowling they just went out of their way to like attack anyone that was that was into it and

00:27:31.940 there were particularly a lot of those types of individuals in the vtubing community because the

00:27:38.060 vtubing community is like kind of honestly it's like kind of like a big hug box so like super positive

00:27:43.400 vibes all the time and stuff you know so it's like anyway people people i think they got

00:27:49.860 surprised because i didn't talk about this stuff as openly before around that time when hogwarts

00:27:55.360 came out i i have a manager and he's like maybe don't talk about this stuff it's like i really

00:28:00.060 want to talk about maybe don't talk about that stuff and it's kind of like that but so i would

00:28:04.120 talk about it like late at night or like like late at night i'd be doing like late night gaming i

00:28:08.540 played this bounty hunting game and then i'll talk about it then like different topics along those lines

00:28:14.060 but yeah you know one thing you mentioned there that i i often feel so we've had hope not hate

00:28:20.320 which is this uk thing they did this like undercover reporter like in our organization for like a year

00:28:24.720 plus year plus trying to find us saying anything racist or bad or anything like that couldn't find

00:28:29.320 anything which i'm really thankful for but like you know we've been numerous guardian hit pieces on us

00:28:34.740 everything so the news is always trying to get us and the funniest thing is is that's like if you just

00:28:39.180 sat down and listened to our actual content beginning to end even just like three episodes

00:28:44.560 you would find so much more worse stuff than you've been able to find and all of your like

00:28:50.040 dredging expeditions um and it's like the best place to hide something is like deep in a stream

00:28:57.840 yeah like late late at night like uh eight hours in 12 hours in

00:29:03.720 yeah i gotta be honest i think this no but then somebody's gonna cap you one time you know

00:29:10.440 oh who is that person who i i felt kind of bad at because they were a streamer okay so it was a twitch

00:29:15.100 streamer who worked for sweet baby inc and it was a woman or something do you remember when this

00:29:19.600 happened and her stream got capped was it she had like like 15 followers or something and so she

00:29:25.360 thought like nobody would possibly be capping her oh i know what you're talking about it was a vtuber right

00:29:31.060 yeah it was a vtuber yeah i i remember what you're talking about they said a bunch of stuff

00:29:35.840 and then like people found it of course because people were trying to dig up stuff on

00:29:39.340 on sweet baby inc yeah yeah damn well now i wonder was like ai what are they gonna find me saying i mean

00:29:46.520 i i my positions just get more extreme as i go on so i don't i don't think i'm like you i think that 0.57

00:29:53.180 like i've been maybe moving more and you've been have you have you feel like you've been pretty

00:29:56.840 politically stable or do you feel like you've been sort of i mean i i again like i used to be

00:30:02.480 kind of more libertarian and i think as as i've gotten older i've kind of found that the social

00:30:09.940 fabric matters a lot more than i used to think so i do i do see a little chipping a little bit like

00:30:18.260 over just from the ridiculousness like i don't want to deal with it you know it's annoying it's it's

00:30:24.240 annoying it's just like people screaming at you all the time and like who wants to deal with that

00:30:27.780 right yeah no it's funny i'd actually say like i used to be libertarian but like i'm not as

00:30:32.500 libertarian anymore because you got people like jd vance and i'm like yeah whatever whatever he does

00:30:36.220 is probably okay yeah i don't know simone you gotta talk more bargained at all you've been

00:30:42.360 completely quiet why don't you talk about countryside stuff with her countryside stuff yeah you're moving

00:30:47.140 to the suburbs because you didn't want to move i had to force you 30 minutes straight and she just 0.98

00:30:51.280 stopped so your time is actually great but yeah so have you moved to the countryside what what yeah

00:30:55.260 like i mean yeah i actually moved from california to yeah it's funny when i first when i first moved

00:31:02.780 i first moved to texas and my neighbors are like so where where are you guys from california and they

00:31:10.060 said y'all keep texas texas okay i was like don't worry i don't like any of this that's why i left

00:31:16.280 that is so good but fyi by the way simone grew up in san francisco oh really first moved to dallas 0.67

00:31:23.660 before moving out here yeah when i told everyone that i was going i was in the san francisco bay

00:31:28.780 area and they freaked out when they realized i was moving especially to dallas they're like at least

00:31:34.220 you can move to austin like they sort of thought austin was like well at least they're liberal there

00:31:38.900 and they were just terrified like as if i you know was tell her your gun story and by the way wipe

00:31:44.220 your teeth they're covered in makeup very nerdy i like it but okay so anyways the gun story is so

00:31:51.300 she moves to texas and her friends from san francisco are like you are going to be shot

00:31:55.900 simone you cannot move there she goes you know they're like shooting people in the they've got

00:32:00.180 guns everywhere simone had to like explain it was not like a public shooting range and they they did

00:32:05.240 not believe her they were terrified for her life you know i i had a i have a similar story to that

00:32:11.780 you want to hear it oh yeah go go go so like man it's kind of a sad story but my my grandpa used to

00:32:18.620 be super conservative super conservative and then what happened was as he as he grew older he ended up

00:32:23.700 being in the care of like more liberal family members and they cut him off of like fox they only

00:32:31.100 forced him to watch cnn and it was like like he would tell me like i just want to watch my fox leaflet i

00:32:38.440 just want to watch fox they won't let me and so like it was kind of like that it was kind of weird

00:32:43.100 it's really sad and then i remember just they just slowly like they would they would tell him like

00:32:48.540 like like like for instance he was going to vote for trump in 20 2016 he's going to vote for trump

00:32:53.480 and they basically told him like if you vote for trump we're gonna lose our job and all of our money

00:32:59.680 and all of our livelihood and so like he got guilted into voting for hillary and he told me like

00:33:05.920 this is like a big regret like i regret it i didn't want to vote for her but like i did

00:33:10.460 and so this kept going it kept going on and on and the last conversation i had with him before he passed

00:33:18.840 was he he goes he goes leaflet do you still carry a gun and i was like yeah i carry a gun all the time

00:33:26.860 and he's like stop carrying a gun because when the police find out you're asian they will shoot you

00:33:34.320 and i was like who told you that what's going on it was so it was the last conversation i ever had

00:33:39.860 with my grandpa that's so sad right yeah weird that that does make me very angry at i don't want to

00:33:47.200 say like your family members but like the wider but i i also oh by the way just just for audience

00:33:51.760 who like doesn't know it's it's for safety because of like the weirdos on vtubers and stuff like that

00:33:56.640 and like you you you even like stream with a gun from what i remember oh yeah i've got i've got ones

00:34:01.940 i i just like guns i have a lot of them but i always carry a gun for protection that is awesome

00:34:06.920 what made you decide to move like awake i mean because most people get so used to california

00:34:12.900 like the idea of leaving seems incomprehensible yeah obviously a lot of other things changed

00:34:17.900 either politically but like why did you decide to take the leap so it was it was really hard because

00:34:23.260 california has a lot of nice things you know a lot of bad things but there's also a lot of

00:34:28.060 family there but what happened was after covid happened and gavin newsom he he did a lot of

00:34:37.740 things like a lot of things where he had rules for other people but not for himself and he just

00:34:44.340 general like the general way that he handled covid and so what happened was he got recalled and like

00:34:51.600 larry elder went up against him and me and my mom were like oh finally like finally like finally

00:34:57.480 someone's gonna kick this guy out because he sucks right and they voted to keep him in and my mom 0.94

00:35:03.640 like she said leaflet this place is cooked like we're we need to get out of here this is this is so bad 0.98

00:35:12.520 like if if he can if he can win after everything that happened he can never lose so so we're like okay

00:35:20.060 and then so you know immediately literally the next month we started looking for houses we're just

00:35:25.460 like we're just out of here if it makes you feel any better about him one thing i'm really excited

00:35:29.380 about for this next election cycle because you know everyone thought that he was going to be like

00:35:32.400 the guy to be the next presidential candidate i hadn't i hadn't put this together yet you know he 0.93

00:35:36.960 had the olympic games happening in la right before that yeah like okay fucking half the city is burned 0.92

00:35:42.260 down trump's not going to contribute any federal dollars to this this olympic cycle the olympics has become 0.87

00:35:47.940 more and more corrupt every year like this is going to be the disaster of disastrous olympics

00:35:53.420 yes it will be entertaining i am i am here for it i've got my binoculars i want to see the

00:36:01.180 content goldmine and it's going to have a big trans controversy right in the middle of it because

00:36:07.780 trump has recently announced that he plans to deny visas to the olympic athletes that are going by a

00:36:14.820 different gender and of course gavin newsom's gonna put his his d on the table on the other

00:36:20.820 side of this issue and it is going to be a hilarious fight yeah absolutely yeah um where do you think the

00:36:30.520 future of america is like where do you see your friends and colleagues and other contacts building

00:36:38.760 their lives if not because it used to just be that like all cool people would typically gravitate to

00:36:45.920 like la san francisco new york maybe boston are you seeing a shift in that among people that you hang

00:36:53.420 out with and talk with a lot is it more dispersed now yeah well the problem is is a lot of these big

00:36:59.660 cities are just not affordable yeah it's it's it's impossible and and i keep telling a lot of people

00:37:05.740 that live in these big cities it's like you're not really out of the tutorial of life until you own

00:37:12.200 property because that's how they keep that's how like as long as you're paying rent you're literally

00:37:17.800 just losing money every month and it's just not affordable to actually like own a place in california

00:37:24.980 it's a million dollars it's not even the right career path anymore so if you're in like the

00:37:28.660 entertainment space for example i think we especially saw it after this election cycle

00:37:32.540 is like i used to want to be like a newscaster right like on tv eventually or something and now

00:37:37.760 it's like why would i want to be that like they get like lower ratings than like we did a thing

00:37:43.220 recently and like we were worth i i think like during the election cycle in terms of view time

00:37:47.920 each of us or our podcast alone so so together 14 new york times full-time stafford like nobody watches

00:37:55.460 like like the mainstream news anymore and and because of that like if you're on this pathway

00:38:01.500 to become like a an influencer or like a thought leader and one of the things i've realized by talking

00:38:06.640 to you is there's like these bubbles of thought leaders like you're in the bubble of thought leaders

00:38:11.820 that previously would have been actresses i think or voice actresses no i mean like you're an

00:38:17.580 entertainer entertainer right like and like we're in the space that like and you end up knowing everyone

00:38:23.080 in that space really quickly like and like with us like we know like i think it's so weird that like

00:38:27.320 we're like friends with people like curtis yarvin and stuff like that and i'm like like weird but

00:38:30.600 like we're in the intellectual intellectuals yeah space and the question is is you know can can you

00:38:35.520 we continue to build from here i don't know it's difficult like i know some friends in the space who

00:38:39.780 have built like really sustainable incomes but outside of this i think the real way to do this

00:38:46.160 is to build sort of i guess i'd call it like purage networks and then release products that people

00:38:52.320 was in our industry want whether it's games like the stuff that because one of the things i was

00:38:57.380 thinking about like my game releases i'm like how am i going to get this game in front of people

00:39:00.680 everything like that i'm like oh all i need to do is piss off the games media then reach out to my

00:39:05.120 friends like i've been on side scrollers a bunch you know i have contacts with like no grums like i can 0.98

00:39:09.700 get them to cover this stuff and i'm sure you're the same way right like yeah and i'm like oh shit like 0.65

00:39:13.520 that's everything you need to do to like get in front of an audience these days now i just need to make a good 0.71

00:39:17.700 product it's it's crazy just how things have shifted so hard like before only certain certain

00:39:23.560 people certain like larger companies had like the keys to all of the you know all of the kingdoms and

00:39:29.260 like now it's kind of being more distributed amongst like you know individuals which is which is great

00:39:34.660 yeah but also the weirdly like isolated social circles has also been really weird i don't know if

00:39:40.800 you've bumped into this where like you see somebody who produces content that in some way is similar to

00:39:45.020 you but they're like a social circle that like you have never engaged with well it's kind of that's

00:39:52.360 a tough one for me because i'm pretty anti-social so i don't really i'm notoriously bad at like

00:39:58.640 collabing and kind of trying to reach out to people to like kind of like do things together i'm just bad

00:40:05.780 at it because i'm i'm kind of i just i'm sort of person that kind of just likes to be alone and play

00:40:11.460 games so it's like i i nervous around people very easily i'm the same way i'm the same way you know

00:40:17.080 i mean one of the things that we actually constantly talk about on our channel is trying to normalize

00:40:22.200 like we sort of talked about like extreme levels of introversion in our society we've almost treated

00:40:27.660 as like it's a condition or something to overcome and the only reason that like i'm good at socializing

00:40:32.980 because i treat it like a job like i would never i look i live on a farm with my wife and we leave

00:40:38.040 like almost never and most of my friendships are parasocial like i'm like i have a lot of friends

00:40:44.060 no it's actually a really interesting thing and i don't know if this has happened to you or like i

00:40:47.060 have a lot of friends where like i talk to them once every three months or so but like they watch my

00:40:51.980 content and i watch their content and so i'm like that's all i need perfect world so it's like you're

00:40:56.080 kind of like interacting with with people but kind of at your own pace right yeah it's way more

00:41:02.800 efficient everyone gets a ton more done people are spending less time and money and yet they still

00:41:08.500 have deep relationships and they they often know each other like what we're seeing more and more

00:41:14.600 whether or not someone has a following is that there's a lot of parasocial stuff going on and

00:41:19.500 often like while they're cleaning or working or other stuff so it's not this isn't time that's

00:41:24.120 competing with like their few time like hours off of work for example and then occasionally they'll

00:41:30.740 like go to a conference or a retreat or travel to a city and meet up with these people in person

00:41:36.700 so that they still get that in-person contact but you get most of the benefits of friendship this is

00:41:44.940 not a replacement for what community used to be where like you just lived and depended on people

00:41:50.480 really closely but in terms of like loose friend networks i think this is a way more efficient way to do

00:41:56.460 it and it's great final question then for her yeah so i want to focus on the question of because i

00:42:02.560 actually don't know this you're the only streamer like i know like all the other people we know are

00:42:07.460 like youtubers or sub stackers or stuff like that like what is the streaming audience like when

00:42:12.280 contrasted with the youtube audience in terms of how you're producing content it's it's it's a little

00:42:16.540 bit so the i think that the difference is it's more there's a lot more interaction right people

00:42:24.300 people come to streams i i think this is really what it is there's a lot of people come to streams

00:42:30.180 like spend time with someone like feel like you're hanging out with people because it's because it's

00:42:36.180 live right and like people will comment and then you'll respond in real time so it's like it's kind of

00:42:41.160 like you're hanging out in the same room with with people and and even like when you know you hear

00:42:46.800 this a lot like oh wow you're just watching someone play games it's it's it's more like you're playing

00:42:53.980 games with your friends that's kind of like the the the kind of feeling behind it it's like you know

00:43:00.140 you're you're you're chilling on the couch and you're playing you know sonic the hedgehog and your

00:43:04.580 friends are watching you play it's kind of like that that vibe to it so when you're putting something 0.98

00:43:09.300 together how do you i don't know how to put it but like perfectly masturbate this desire or 0.67

00:43:14.760 right like what are you thinking when you're doing that well for me it's more like i just

00:43:21.200 i try to pick games that people like and then i try to just respond to them when they when people talk

00:43:27.920 like you you have to always one eye on your chat so it's like it's like sometimes it's it's that i was

00:43:34.160 like talking about this like when i'm streaming i actually suck more at games because i'm i'm 0.54

00:43:38.580 constantly distracted like trying to like look for a conversation hook to like talk about right

00:43:44.460 so like if somebody says something it's like oh that's something i can talk about and then like you

00:43:47.840 clip into that and then you can have a conversation with everyone in chat no i actually i find this

00:43:54.160 really interesting because i think our audience as well will not know anyone like you like you

00:43:59.240 represent a side of i think this cultural shift that is aligned with a lot of our experiences

00:44:08.100 but completely out of anything that they have done like i would doubt very many of our fans like

00:44:13.940 they might like your youtube channel but i doubt you're gonna get any like twitch subscribers from

00:44:17.860 this you know they're no they're mostly like i like i know our fans like they mostly are like

00:44:22.000 mckinsey types so they're like venture capitalists or they like work at mckinsey or they're like a

00:44:25.920 different crowd it's like it's like a different different it's streaming is is it's a different

00:44:31.100 audience than than youtube videos and the thing is it's like i consume both right like i'll sometimes i'm

00:44:36.220 actually to tell you the truth i i actually don't watch that many streams i watch mostly youtube i'm

00:44:41.840 mostly like a youtube person but but yeah i mean i get it it's a completely different audience

00:44:49.000 yeah oh okay awesome i love it it was great talking to you and i'm gonna stop recording you

00:44:55.140 all right and oh wait no what am i saying okay what's the name of the game that people need to go to

00:45:01.560 what's yeah game is angels sword rpg elyrian chronicles is the name of it and you can find

00:45:07.800 that at rpg.angelssword like angels but like possessive angelssword.com and it's free to play

00:45:15.460 anyone can play it and updates every two to three weeks wait how do you monetize this patreon

00:45:20.140 oh okay lovely what a great way to monetize like a dnd type thing yeah it's like people can support if

00:45:27.320 they want i mean i mean you know it's just it's just books like people don't always have the money to

00:45:31.600 to buy the books so it's kind of like we want everyone to be able to play so that's what we

00:45:36.160 want really awesome okay great okay all right

00:45:38.680 you

Based Camp - February 11, 2025

Leaflit： Streaming, Controversies, and Creating a TTRPG

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript