Based Camp - Malcolm Debates @MoreBirths on Fertility Stats

00:00:00.000 this organization called population connection oh interesting okay so this okay this is crazy

00:00:07.440 this is insane but this is you wouldn't believe it except that it's true and they have these

00:00:12.300 workshops where they train teachers and he has trained on the order of like a hundred thousand

00:00:18.380 teachers in america over the years through this organization which is active today and it educates

00:00:24.620 in american and canadian schools three million students a year this is insane so so and and what

00:00:33.320 we see here is an example from their most popular video so he he has this this thing that starts in

00:00:41.160 the year one so you can see the header on top shows this is the world population in the year one like

00:00:48.760 as in the time of the romans and and like when jesus walked the earth and stuff like that so

00:00:53.500 this is 170 million so that's the baseline that he's using to show overpopulation now because

00:00:59.340 this is like the pop this is less than the current population of so that's what we need to go back

00:01:03.980 to is it roman times of course yes that's what we want this video that he has like like it shows like

00:01:11.500 a little exploding bomb okay in in every every time like there there's more population added and so

00:01:17.700 it literally looks like the world of today is like on fire with people and this is the education that's

00:01:23.500 that's going out under the guise of environmentalism to like millions of would you like to know more

00:01:29.280 hi everyone i am so excited today to have a very very special guest daniel who we've always really

00:01:36.060 known and who you might know already as more births on twitter this is our favorite demographic

00:01:43.520 collapse account daniel you have the most thoughtful threads you are very passionate about demographic

00:01:48.760 collapse but also very articulate and focused on the data so we're super excited to have you on because

00:01:54.140 you often look at elements of the data and elements of demographic collapse that we're not talking about

00:02:00.840 as much and i think we have a lot to dig into so let's just do it but as a big reminder to everyone

00:02:07.640 if you aren't already following more births on twitter do it now because these are you can follow us on

00:02:14.360 twitter while you're at it i mean yeah we're there too at most yes monage collins yeah because we

00:02:21.040 haven't changed anyway let's dive into the data because that's what our fans are all about is data

00:02:26.360 yeah so let's we first wanted to discuss and and this is something that came from your very good

00:02:31.840 suggestion daniel so thank you culture and examples of countries that achieved a more prenatal culture

00:02:36.560 because we we're really good on this podcast at talking about the failure cases but maybe we can go

00:02:41.180 there's something a little more encouraging yeah yeah i'd love to and you know that's that's something

00:02:46.800 i really really try hard to do is is to focus on on on the data because because everybody has their

00:02:53.960 own opinions on what the what the cause of the fertility collapse are and there's a lot of causes

00:02:58.640 but you know i i i try i try to be minimalist as far as my own opinions and maximalist as as far as the

00:03:05.420 data so here's i i want to you know go go right into things so the first thing i want to talk about

00:03:09.960 is the cultural impact of fertility because culture is really the dominant factor much more

00:03:16.880 you know and you've you guys have talked about this a lot on this on base camp is is that you

00:03:21.700 know the the impact of incentives is is not enough it's not enough that you need you need culture so

00:03:27.740 here so i want to go through different examples of of how of how culture makes a difference and so

00:03:34.760 here's here i'm going to try to share something um cool i'll bring it up yeah let's okay so what

00:03:43.660 we're seeing here so what this is can you can we see this now we can so so here we're talking about

00:03:50.260 france so this is the this this is one of my favorite examples of the power of culture so what

00:03:56.480 we see is fertility basically fertility in the 1800s in france uh versus fertility today so france had

00:04:05.500 a huge uh culture change in the 1800s you know long before anybody else so so france ended up with

00:04:14.980 like super low fertility in you know starting with the french revolution so clarify because a lot of our

00:04:21.420 audience listens only audio so do keep that in mind when you're describing what's in the grass

00:04:26.440 oh yeah yeah go for like what we're what we're looking at okay so so what we're seeing in this is

00:04:32.840 two two maps of europe side by side with you know fertility in the 1800s and fertility in 2019 so very

00:04:41.140 recently so what we see in the 1800s is that france has fertility like a whole order of magnitude

00:04:50.560 less than the rest of europe and that that was the result of the french revolution and

00:04:56.740 secularization and you can know this from you can know that that's what was going on because you can

00:05:02.900 look at like uh you can look at the records that people left behind of of wills and whether it was

00:05:09.540 like a church will or a secular will and it went from like it went from like like 90 church type

00:05:16.760 wills or religious type wills to like 90 secular so it was an extreme secularization that happened

00:05:22.600 in france after the french revolution and they ended up with like the lowest fertility in europe by a mile

00:05:27.500 now i want to be clear to people who are looking at this what's interesting about the 1800s map is it does

00:05:33.700 it by county and not just by country and yet you can see that by county there is a very sort of tight

00:05:42.200 line around france so it's not like you get a cultural bleed or much of a cultural bleed in the

00:05:48.820 border regions which is very interesting as it means that legalistic changes within france likely

00:05:55.760 precipitated this cultural change that he's describing and i've seen other compelling evidence

00:06:02.180 that it really was the secularization i don't know what piece i might be thinking of you probably know

00:06:06.500 the one i'm thinking of uh where somebody argued with a lot of data that it really was specifically

00:06:10.460 the secularization that caused france early fertility collapse yeah and you can you can

00:06:15.720 you can find stuff like that actually if you if you if you go to more births on twitter and you do a

00:06:21.780 search of at more births and you know for example france you know you're gonna you know you'll find

00:06:27.960 stuff where i link to that that particular study from which this uh map is taken so on the then we can

00:06:33.940 see in 2019 you can see the fertility rate in all the european countries and france

00:06:38.980 has the highest fertility rate in all of europe so france went from the lowest to the highest now

00:06:46.140 it's still below replacement but this is a massive difference so this you do you have a theory on this

00:06:51.560 because i i can get binding well yeah i mean i think part of it is just talking about it like

00:06:57.420 like recently macron you know saw france's birth rates were going down again and he so he just gets on

00:07:04.980 on the mic on national tv and stuff and says guys we need to increase our birth rate he just comes

00:07:10.160 right out and says it now you can't imagine like a british prime minister or canadian prime minister

00:07:15.060 or u.s president you know coming out and saying guys we need to increase our birth rate that has

00:07:20.260 trump has trump has but yeah okay yeah but but no but i mean you know normally yeah i hear what you say

00:07:26.680 i would argue that something else is actually happening here because you uh you see this across

00:07:32.060 populations and it's a very interesting trend and it has to do with cultural evolution the very fact

00:07:37.960 that france's fertility rate fell early is what has caused it to be more robust today and we actually

00:07:47.860 see evidence for this elsewhere on the map if you look at other regions that had a falling early

00:07:54.200 fertility rate for example you can see this in i think that's estonia right the bottom of the the other

00:08:00.080 red spot there it's also a uniquely high fertility rate country today when contrasted with the rest of

00:08:05.400 europe well i hear that yeah well so here's why i want to go into why this happens because i think

00:08:12.120 it's not just in france where this is the case any population group because in the u.s for example

00:08:18.620 if you look at american born catholics like catholics who have been in america and immigrated a long time ago

00:08:24.460 and the speed of their fertility fall and you contrast that with recent catholic immigrants from

00:08:30.300 developing countries their fertility collapses the immigrants much faster than the native born catholics 1.00

00:08:35.800 and so what i think is going on here is that countries that have for a long time dealt with

00:08:42.900 memetically caused low fertility rates cultural groups within those countries and regions have had longer

00:08:50.660 to adapt intergenerational strategies that keep their fertility rates high in spite of the factors

00:08:58.440 that lead to low fertility rates i think that this in large part explains high jewish fertility rates 1.00

00:09:04.420 because jewish populations have disproportionately for example 98 of jews in the u.s live in an urban center

00:09:10.660 lived in urban centers which are the lowest fertility regions and they've been doing that for a very long

00:09:16.580 time so they've had to adapt to cultural techniques used within the urban monoculture to lower fertility 0.98

00:09:23.060 rates in the groups around them and recruit people for much much much longer than other populations

00:09:27.560 and i suspect that that's what we're seeing within these maps i hear that i do want to add you know

00:09:33.160 one thing which is and this is my next example that i that i want to share and maybe i can share that now

00:09:39.600 i'll close this window and try to share something else and then we can talk about that i want to talk about

00:09:45.060 mongolia the case of inner and outer mongolia because nobody ever talks about this

00:09:49.460 and this is this is this is very spicy because because because because we this is new information for

00:09:54.980 probably almost everybody so here we go let me share let me see

00:09:58.460 i gotta open the yeah don't worry about dead spots because malcolm edits them out

00:10:06.960 and thank you for your amazing editing malcolm sure thank you

00:10:10.980 here we go can we see this all right hold on yep now we're good

00:10:20.540 so what we have so what we this is the example of mongolia so there's what's called outer mongolia which

00:10:30.300 is what we consider to be mongolia proper this is like the country of mongolia and then you've got

00:10:35.600 inner mongolia which is which is in china and so the fertility in outer mongolia is 0.7 what is 2.75

00:10:46.660 or so almost three births per woman the fertility in inner mongolia by contrast is like 0.75 or so it's

00:10:56.460 it's it's it's it's like almost like a quarter as much yeah wow so you have this insane difference

00:11:04.920 between outer mongolia and inner mongolia and they're right next to each other so outer mongolia

00:11:10.240 isn't under the ccp correct right so here so i'll tell you what what what the difference is is that

00:11:17.360 mongolia the country of mongolia was under the soviet sphere

00:11:21.700 and the soviet sphere they you know so they were both both outer and inner mongolia were under

00:11:26.780 communist influence for many many decades but mongolia mongolia the country which we call outer

00:11:33.440 which is also called outer mongolia was in the soviet sphere and that was always pro natalist like

00:11:38.580 they had pro natalist pro natalist message all the time they have something like maybe you've heard of

00:11:43.960 like former soviet countries have like this these things like called like the order of maternal glory

00:11:49.580 exactly yeah metal that women would get like if they had like a whole bunch of kids and they could 0.95

00:11:53.880 get the you know if they had like eight kids you get the order of maternal glory if you have like six

00:11:57.640 kids you get the order of maternal glory second class i'm gonna i'm gonna push back on this thesis

00:12:03.200 because most former soviet states have unusually low fertility rates for their economic status

00:12:08.980 well i hear that and that's that's something what what's interesting is that when they were under the

00:12:14.420 soviet rule they they had high fertility and so when when they kind of switched over to to capitalism

00:12:21.240 and switched switched over to the western mode that's when fertility dropped you know the thing 0.98

00:12:26.260 anyway the thing i want to talk about with inner mongolia is that of course they were they were under

00:12:30.220 china they're in china and and and so they got the antenatal message it was the what you know china of

00:12:36.660 course had the one child policy but that's not the only thing if you look at fertility fertility plummeted 1.00

00:12:41.520 in china before the one child policy it plummeted from propaganda and it plummeted

00:12:46.360 in korea it plummeted in in like hong kong taiwan all the other places and and so so my point is that

00:12:53.440 actually messaging whether it's pronatal or antenatal actually seems to have a very large impact

00:12:58.740 so i'm gonna i'm gonna have a different hypothesis on what's causing this one in mongolia

00:13:04.180 and someone you can you can decide which you find more compelling so if i remember correctly the the

00:13:09.980 outer mongolia is a different country it's not under the ccp right yeah yeah so that outer mongolia is

00:13:15.640 what we well that's what we consider to be mongolia that like as a country right yes what looks dark on

00:13:21.160 this map here but they're otherwise about equivalent in terms of their economic state right now right

00:13:26.420 uh yeah the gdp per capita is comparable in inner mongolia and outer mongolia so the china part and the

00:13:31.820 mongolia part have you know within the same order of magnitude certainly so then my hypothesis would

00:13:37.820 be what's causing the difference is the level of hope because we've seen this in other regions like

00:13:41.840 in georgia when you get a lot of hope you your fertility rate typically increases or when you

00:13:46.960 believe that there is hope for your people your fertility rate increases and the ccp i mean across 0.99

00:13:52.240 the board has unusually low fertility wherever it operates and my assumption is this because people 0.99

00:13:57.760 born into the ccp just have very little hope that their kids will be anything other than a 1.00

00:14:03.740 disposable resource for the ccp and that they won't really have any chance to move up within society 1.00

00:14:09.520 or capture any sort of like autonomy and that their culture will be erased more i mean obviously

00:14:17.540 china historically very famously attempts to erase the cultural uniqueness of its subject populations

00:14:25.500 that are different from the han outside of a few token holidays and stuff like that so i suspect that

00:14:31.400 that's probably what's happening well there is if we can we can look at this same map there's another

00:14:36.240 example on this map actually which which i wasn't gonna which just occurs to me now which is north

00:14:43.000 korea yeah so you can see north korea is is close to replacement fertility yeah and apart and this this

00:14:51.720 kind of also goes to my thesis you know that the simple fact of you know leadership and the broader

00:14:59.080 culture being pronatal or antenatal like makes a big difference south korea had like and i have many

00:15:06.080 examples of this on my twitter feed had many had you know all this antenatal propaganda telling people

00:15:11.560 to have one child you know they had you can see all these i put propaganda posters you know on my

00:15:17.200 twitter feed so you can see that they have this meanwhile north korea like they have always been

00:15:22.080 you know sort of pronatal like like actually there was a there was a video i think in from from early

00:15:29.420 december that the that made the the rounds in in media where kim jong-un the the the leader of north korea

00:15:38.160 was talking to a convocation of like mothers and women and he was just crying and crying and crying

00:15:42.660 because like you're not having enough babies guys oh my gosh well it's it's interesting that you point

00:15:48.080 this out because i mean my take on north korea that's pretty clear they so so i think this is

00:15:52.800 out of date because i remember the last i looked north korea actually has a pretty abysmal fertility

00:15:56.100 right now it is it is at least two times what it is in south korea so so i don't remember that being

00:16:02.360 true anymore i remember it being close to south korea's rate i can check this right now actually

00:16:05.920 let's let's check this north korea well we ought to remember south korea now is at 0.72 so yeah i mean

00:16:11.600 it's it's pretty easy to beat yeah it's a pretty low bar okay let's see we can we can see what that

00:16:18.160 is um okay apparently ftr is an acronym they use elsewhere uh north korea's fertility rate is 1.38

00:16:29.540 but way above south korea that is way that is almost almost twice so yeah that's what's right and

00:16:34.400 they're dealing with real hardship but hold on i was but what i was going to say is that north korea's

00:16:39.800 fertility rate to me seems more indicative of a country in extreme poverty i mean this is something

00:16:45.220 you see across the board it's like when people are talking to me about high fertility rates we go well

00:16:49.640 why don't we like copy whatever the countries in like africa are doing and i'm like what the countries

00:16:53.620 in africa are doing is extreme poverty like we we know this the poorer a country is typically the

00:16:59.760 higher its fertility rate is and the poorer somebody is was in a country typically the higher their

00:17:03.840 fertility rate is so i don't know if i would take anything away from the north korea example okay

00:17:09.620 yeah i mean yeah but i i do i i do think and i and i feel pretty confident on this is that a part

00:17:16.160 of the difference between you know sort of inner and outer mongolia is that is that in one place

00:17:21.340 everybody their whole lives have been hearing you know the children are good have more children

00:17:25.460 in in in in inner mongolia as part of china for most of their lives until like very recently

00:17:31.580 they were hearing like have less children if you have a you have more children we're going to do

00:17:37.320 enforced abortions and all like this so so it was they were it was pretty yeah it was pretty 0.88

00:17:42.840 antenatal and and and there there seems to be a long shadow yeah yeah yeah what's your take for that

00:17:48.300 i i i think that there's this sounds terribly diplomatic but i do think that there's a lot of weight

00:17:53.500 to both of your arguments that you're kind of talking about the same thing which is what's going

00:17:58.060 through prospective parents or would-be parents minds when they're thinking about should i keep

00:18:04.040 this pregnancy or should i have this kid or do i want kids in the first place and a combination of

00:18:09.220 a lack of hope for the future or deep concern about the future whether or not that's realistic and i do

00:18:14.800 think that in south korea there can be sorry i'm gonna push back here it actually functionally matters

00:18:21.060 these the difference between our perspectives because it's a different in policy and a big

00:18:27.740 difference in policy i disagree because you can have really bleak prospects and i think north korea does

00:18:34.440 but you can still tell everyone that things are really great and that you should have kids and i do

00:18:39.120 think that could happen yeah i do think mongolia thing here simone yeah well yeah i think in both

00:18:45.240 cases i i actually i actually think that you know what leaders say you know over the course of time

00:18:52.640 and what kind of the cultural zeitgeist is you know does seems to make a a significant difference and

00:18:59.660 that's that's kind of the example that i was talking about with france where i really think that

00:19:04.040 you know in france after world war ii because france had had a stagnant population germany's population

00:19:10.140 exploded the uk's population exploded and then france got their their their their rear end handed to

00:19:15.060 them in world war ii and that's you know that was such a shocking thing that that leaders but you

00:19:20.400 know start started they did they had a lot of you know pronatal policies but leaders also just started

00:19:25.660 talking like have more children they said it just outright all the time and that that seems to well

00:19:31.420 but sometimes undergoing extreme hardship losing family members can does increase yeah but i wanted to

00:19:40.400 to focus on the difference in policy proposals that you would get from these two positions because i

00:19:46.220 think the mongolia thing that you note is really interesting and it's something i haven't dug deep on

00:19:51.420 and i do want to dig deeper on this as a topic to find out what all the differences are between the two

00:19:56.040 regions because it could be a key to some angle here that we haven't taken yet however the two policy

00:20:02.440 proposals i would take for this is from you it would be more government propaganda around normalizing

00:20:08.880 large families and creating expectations around large families doesn't have to be government even

00:20:13.560 it could be you know one thing that lyman stone who's a you know he's he's kind of an interesting

00:20:18.800 guy but he's a demographer extraordinaire but you know he's given the example with south korea he said

00:20:24.160 if he could have a policy he would like his policy would be that the k-pop stars you know need to

00:20:30.120 you can't be okay right now they have this weird thing where they want the the contracting companies

00:20:35.340 want all the k-pop stars to be like childless and single so they're better heart exactly yeah you

00:20:39.260 can't so he would say that his policy would be that you can't be a k-pop star unless you have kids

00:20:44.760 you know so so that's a interesting it's not that i don't argue that this would work but i think that

00:20:50.980 you would see a larger fertility increase from policy positions that increase the feeling of

00:20:59.060 meritocracy in a society than things that directly target fertility that's possible i have another

00:21:05.120 example that i want to move on to let's do that let me see here we go i mean so malcolm what you're

00:21:11.260 saying though is that you think that people will i think no matter what china does no matter how much

00:21:18.500 the ccp pushes three kids is glorious they're not going to increase the fertility rate until they 1.00

00:21:24.720 really start caring about their citizens or they start dramatically removing their rights i think

00:21:31.920 those are the only two paths that they can go you know like force insemination and stuff like that

00:21:36.000 we can yeah i i have a lot to talk about with china as well we can we can go into that soon but this is

00:21:43.100 this is another one i want to talk about so so this is something that very few people know about so

00:21:47.680 maybe you can consider this a spicy take too but this is is this is jewish this is jewish people

00:21:53.100 in europe before world war ii they have extremely low fertility so this is looking at crude birth

00:21:59.080 rates but but but you know before world war ii the the birth rate of jewish people in

00:22:05.320 in bohemia and places like this is like five which is so so you so the jewish people already before 1.00

00:22:14.980 world war ii had like far lower like birth rates than in the in their surrounding which follows my

00:22:25.280 first thesis the longer you are in a low fertility environment the longer you have to evolve protections

00:22:30.840 against it well i yeah i would say that's part of it you know i have a huge number of jewish friends

00:22:36.240 and i i actually i think i think that the part of the explanation is is you know because jewish

00:22:43.440 fertility went from like super low to like israeli fertility you know jumped to like extremely high

00:22:49.640 like right away after world war ii because you had because of the the the horrible tragedy you had

00:22:57.700 this this jump to extreme explicit pronatalism and and you know i've had jewish friends tell me i i you

00:23:04.020 know i just asked just you know what to see what they'd say why why do people in israel you know have

00:23:09.560 so many children and they said we we tell however many you're going to have you know have one more

00:23:14.780 for those that were lost no and i was like oh my god you know but but it just it just shows that you

00:23:21.720 know because i can show you another chart next which is let me stop sharing this one and share another

00:23:28.400 one here so we can see this is just looking at israel today but i would argue that that's a cultural

00:23:35.760 innovation that could have evolved to adapt to the low fertility environments they found themselves

00:23:40.800 in true story yeah it could have one response to tragedy is huge you are you are describing a

00:23:47.600 cultural technique which is to act as if you are always in a state of recent tragedy which well they

00:23:54.840 actually were in a so i'm just saying that there was a this dramatic shift from from the lowest like

00:24:01.240 far lower than the european average to here we can see now right but i think what you're you're

00:24:06.160 missing here and i would argue that the that even a hundred years from now this strategy is still going

00:24:10.840 to be implemented within jewish communities because it's a successful strategy at motivating fertility

00:24:15.600 rates and therefore i'll compete the groups that don't do it um as simone was mentioning the tsunami

00:24:21.320 study when a region's hit by a tsunami like one thing that does seem to increase fertility rates

00:24:25.700 is an immediate like shock or a lot of death this is likely what caused the baby boom a bunch of people 0.98

00:24:32.380 in this environment then coming back to their countries of course you'd have a lot of kids after 1.00

00:24:35.520 that and just to clarify and what the tsunami study found it looked at regions that were hit super hard

00:24:41.640 by a tsunami and very close to each other there were areas where a lot of people died and where a lot

00:24:47.180 of people experienced the tsunami but fewer people died and they found that the birth rates were higher in

00:24:51.700 those areas with literal higher death counts more people who lost their children in genuine tragedy

00:24:57.280 which to me seemed quite counterintuitive so this seems to track with that i do think it's important

00:25:02.560 to highlight though that i mean if you just think through when a population crashes in the end the

00:25:08.560 only people left are going to be those who somehow innovate a motivation to have more kids those are the

00:25:14.280 only ones who were left so it does make sense malcolm's point too that over time you know the longer

00:25:19.720 that a group has had a lower fertility rate the more likely that the only ones left are the ones who

00:25:25.220 have already worked out how to continue having kids in the face of whatever it is that eliminated

00:25:29.160 desire to have kids well yeah i had an interesting experience this was actually on uh new year's eve i was

00:25:35.360 a family here in maryland was gracious enough to invite me into their home now this was the home of a

00:25:41.080 of a recently passed rabbi who who had he was a renowned rabbi in silver spring maryland i'm not

00:25:49.160 going to mention his name but people who who know will know who that is but he he he left 150

00:25:57.340 descendants so that's you know so and i got to meet and have great conversations with a couple of his

00:26:03.880 grandchildren so i you know it was because this was kind of a a memoriam celebration you know

00:26:11.200 you know of his life and so forth and kind of a a jewish worship and i and i i was i was lucky enough

00:26:18.440 to be there and and what one thing that just absolutely struck me was that you know whether

00:26:23.440 whatever walks of life his grandchildren what what you know they all had this hardcore pro natal belief

00:26:30.920 you know just just that having children is like super important and the and his his granddaughter had

00:26:36.620 like several children and she was also active in creating an organization to help young mothers who

00:26:43.380 who who were uh just experiencing the transition for the from to motherhood for the first time and

00:26:48.020 and to to create a support network so so that she was pro natal to not only for herself but actually

00:26:53.720 building like support pro natal networks so so that that's this no and this is definitely something

00:27:01.120 that is unique to jewish communities is the elevation of the high status members to being especially

00:27:06.060 pro natalist where if you contrast this with you know one of the groups has been hit hardest by

00:27:11.240 fertility rates we always talk about as catholic groups have just been destroyed by falling

00:27:15.940 fertility rates they are uh some of the most susceptible groups outside of east asians and

00:27:20.620 actually orthodox christians as well typically are destroyed by falling fertility rates and and we

00:27:24.660 think with catholics one of the reasons is is the the high status like the priest caste doesn't have

00:27:29.600 kids or or family at all and when you look at the traditional protestant families which have done okay but

00:27:35.360 not as well there's the tradition of like you know the preacher's daughter and everything like that but

00:27:40.220 it's typically uh head like prestigious preachers have two to three kids but not large amounts of

00:27:46.480 kids which is really interesting that you point this out that it is common for rabbis to have large

00:27:50.920 amounts of kids okay so yeah yeah that's a that is a a a great and remarkable thing and i i was just

00:27:57.120 blown away and i felt really lucky to to kind of be a a guest and kind of a fly on the wall or to just

00:28:02.940 to kind of observe because it was so interesting to me so i want to talk about something completely

00:28:06.140 different now which is related to culture but but this is kind of something that i think very few

00:28:12.560 people are aware of so so this okay here i'm gonna share the next thing

00:28:18.620 so i did an expose on twitter it got more than 100 000 views so i'm i'm glad it got some reach

00:28:29.680 but there's this organization uh called population connection oh interesting okay so this okay this is

00:28:38.440 crazy this is insane but this is you wouldn't believe it except that it's true and so paul so

00:28:44.320 population connection is the new name for an organization called zero population growth now have

00:28:50.160 you heard of that yes that is paul ehrlich's organization okay so the paul ehrlich he's the one who

00:28:56.860 who started off who like kicked off the yeah the og antinatalist the og antinatalist right so he has

00:29:03.700 this organization formerly zero population growth now population connection which sounds so much more

00:29:09.780 diplomatic it does it does and and he has they have these workshops where they train teachers and he has

00:29:16.660 trained on the order of like a hundred thousand teachers in america over the years through this

00:29:22.440 organization organization which is active today and so the so it's on the surface it's a it's an

00:29:28.980 environmental organization but it's literally paul ehrlich's own organization which is that that you

00:29:35.200 know the the president of that organization recently bragged that he educated that his material his

00:29:41.960 education material through population connection and it's it's the art his education arm which is called

00:29:48.640 population education it educates in american and canadian schools three million students a year

00:29:56.240 so so and and what we see here is an example from their most popular video so he he has this this thing

00:30:06.000 that starts in the year one so you can see the header on top shows this is the world population in the

00:30:14.340 year one like as in the time of the romans and and like when jesus walked the earth and stuff like

00:30:19.240 that so this is 170 million so that's the baseline that he's using to show overpopulation now because

00:30:25.680 this is like the pop this is less than the current population of so that's what we need to go back

00:30:30.320 to is it roman times pre-industrial of course yes that's what we want this video that he has like

00:30:36.900 like it shows like an ex a little exploding bomb okay in in every every time like there there's more

00:30:42.760 population added and so it literally looks like the world of today is like on fire with people 0.83

00:30:47.740 and this is the education that's that's going out under the guise of environmentalism to like

00:30:52.900 millions of but i think we we all know i mean if you don't realize that your kids are in brainwashing 0.87

00:30:59.520 factories you are foolish in the extreme like that that is the school system today even when we were in 0.95

00:31:06.300 the school system i remember like the zero population brainwashing stuff like kids are bad don't have kids 0.99

00:31:11.460 don't really start thinking about kids until after college you know it's incredibly hard yeah so so

00:31:17.620 to i do agree that it is difficult to fight against large-scale and systemic brainwashing

00:31:24.660 especially when we have no cultural tools to backpedal in the ways that china and countries 0.98

00:31:30.580 like that do so yeah a hundred percent yeah i mean and so this that i i really do think that there is some

00:31:37.340 real low-hanging fruit there like like you know one thing that that i think we we have to sort of

00:31:43.500 realize is that like normies like don't even know i don't think this is a low-hanging fruit at all i

00:31:50.780 think this is a high-hanging fruit so the reason it's a high-hanging fruit is i could clear out an

00:31:55.780 organization like this but these beliefs are deeply held within the teaching class the type of person who

00:32:02.060 becomes an american middle school and high school teacher at a very high level and even if we got

00:32:08.720 rid of the the people who planted these seeds i think it'd be very hard to because this is different

00:32:14.280 like in china or in a lot of other cultures when they're like oh our civilization could collapse 1.00

00:32:20.020 like a normal sane culture is like oh that's a bad thing let's stop that but there is this memetic

00:32:26.620 virus in america and in the west where when you say our civilization could collapse they're like oh

00:32:33.040 that's fantastic we're evil let's let's hasten that degrowth you know yeah you're you're right it's it's

00:32:39.520 yeah there there is a hard line element of people that are that are like cheering this on i i would

00:32:46.220 also but i also think that they're when i say low-hanging fruit i mean at least among a lot of normies

00:32:51.980 like you you go to survey people on the street and like i think a majority of people on the street if

00:32:58.400 you are like is there overpopulation are people having more too more too many or too few children

00:33:04.760 in america like they will still think that we're facing overpopulation and that's just like they just

00:33:11.860 don't know you know so i don't think there's any logic to their opinions i think they're they're

00:33:16.600 completely aesthetically driven yeah i i don't know i i think that a lot of people and maybe i'm

00:33:22.980 more optimistic than you in a certain sense but i i think that there's a lot of people that just

00:33:28.600 you know aren't even aware that population is not like totally like exploding like they think

00:33:35.520 they a lot of people still this is true it's like it's like 1968 when when the population bomb

00:33:41.880 was published they think they think it's like 1968 still they just don't know the new data packs that

00:33:47.020 are threatening to the urban monoculture you know i i point out things like iq is dropping and they're

00:33:52.000 like no the flint effect and i'm like bro the flint effect hasn't been active since like the 1970s

00:33:56.560 like what are you on you know but yeah no i hear what you're saying well this has been fantastic i love

00:34:03.780 let's let's put a target on these organizations let's find a way to take them down so that they stop

00:34:10.360 at least proliferating this message well i think raising awareness about this does make a difference

00:34:15.860 because parents feeling outraged about their children being effectively mimetically sterilized

00:34:20.880 at school will cause some backlash because a lot of parents want grandchildren you know it's been

00:34:26.180 great to have you on yeah um we would absolutely love to have you back and thanks for your time

00:34:31.360 yeah thanks so much you don't remember oh check out more births on twitter yes yeah you're gonna find a

00:34:36.500 lot of good charts good data and if you're if you're the kind of person who loves visuals you

00:34:40.280 will love more births twitter slash x oh and another you can check out if you're interested

00:34:46.520 because i was just shocked to look at this this is like day three after we started what is that thing

00:34:52.200 called our discord server right like uh it has 56 active members right now and 165 people and we

00:34:59.660 only first mentioned it yesterday so also check out our discord but how do people find it oh i'll put like

00:35:05.300 a link on the screen and then in the the comments that they can check out anyway it's been great to

00:35:09.600 have you yeah daniel you rock

00:35:11.400 you

Based Camp - April 01, 2024

Malcolm Debates @MoreBirths on Fertility Stats

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