Males Who Flex Wealth Are Gender Swapped THOTs
Episode Stats
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss why it's not as obscene for a man to signal his wealth as it is for a woman to signal her sexual availability. And why is it that women are so obsessed with flaunting their sexuality?
Transcript
00:00:00.000
When I see older men do this, right, it reminds me a lot of an older woman trying to show
00:00:07.120
off her sexuality, like a Madonna showing off her sexuality.
00:00:09.780
Every time I see some old man with eight fancy cars in his garage, and he's married.
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And I'm like, why aren't you investing in your kids' companies?
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Why aren't you helping them get off the ground?
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And if you don't have kids, why aren't you putting money into causes that you care about?
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The world is literally falling apart, and you are sexually signaling to a fucking mirror.
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Yeah, I mean, it is interesting that it isn't seen as obscene in society for a man to signal
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his wealth as it is for a woman to signal her sexual availability.
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And why I think it's uniquely strange is that we already live in a society that demoralizes
00:01:00.000
So there's easy glib answers I could get, right?
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They don't want money that could go to fixing things, to go to fixing things, because fixing
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It came up when we were doing the Just Pearly Thing recording.
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Like, in the moment, I was thinking about this, because in the episode, the thesis...
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For context, a couple of weeks back, we were on the Just Pearly Things pregame show.
00:01:42.960
It is a panel-based show where Hannah Pearl Davis, you know, discusses various topics and
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a bunch of randos who show up discuss with her.
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And one thing that she started doing near the end of the pregame show was pull up images
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of women on Twitter and criticize them for dressing in provocative ways.
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Which, you know, it's funny that maybe if you look at our episode with Louise Perry, what
00:02:10.420
I don't know if that episode will air before this one or not, but more women being criticized
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for when they are outside of their younger age phase.
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Because, you know, women, like men, go through multiple phases where they are psychologically
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optimized for different things, which they should be optimized for different things.
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And if you are a mother and a wife, you know, being a thirst trap, it's probably not...
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You've got to ask, why are you still doing that?
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Like, why are you still looking for validation from men who are not your husband on online
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That is something that maybe people should be shamed for.
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However, we had a theory on this show that came up that I had never really sought through
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You would support the idea of using social shaming to encourage society to ease into various
00:03:05.100
Like, going from being a young woman who banks on her sexual attractiveness to being more
00:03:11.960
of a matriarch who focuses more on motherhood and building a career than to more of a matriarch
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who focuses on mentorship and using shame to kind of enforce that.
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And I think that, you know, it was in the red pill we see this.
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If a woman is married and she is projecting to society, I am in a monogamous relationship,
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We would look at her really weird if she walked down the street with like little, you know,
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And in some ridiculous outfit, you're like, who are you signaling to?
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And worse than walking down the street, posting pictures on social media.
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Well, in humans, women signal using their bodies often.
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Well, men attract mates showing success and material wealth.
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That being the case, the male equivalent to this sort of vain sexual advertisement is a man
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who is in a, at least claimed monogamous relationship with kids and stuff like that,
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Yeah, flaunting his wealth, essentially to like, yeah, if women bring their youth and beauty
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and we'll say fertility to the table, then what men bring is their resources.
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So a man flaunting his resources is doing the same thing as a woman flaunting her body and youth, right?
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You know, if you're a married man, right, especially a married man with kids, and you get some ultra fancy car,
00:05:03.080
you know, that money could have gone to your kid's education.
00:05:05.140
That money could have gone to making the world a better place.
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And this gets really interesting to me because when we were on the panel, there was this other guy.
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Like, I didn't want to, like, debate him or anything on the show.
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But his job is selling status to young men through fancy suits and stuff like that, right?
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And he was like, yeah, but, well, first, the first thing he was like is, well, fancy cars
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helped me get my wife to sleep with me, basically.
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He's like, I got a fancy car, and that's why I have as many kids as I have.
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So, you know, you guys as pernatalists should be promoting fancy cars.
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You don't need that to get someone to sleep with you.
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I mean, I think the women who are most satisfied in their relationships feel supported
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and loved and also see, you know, their male partners, especially if they already have
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Like, to me, that is the sexiest stuff you ever do.
00:06:04.740
So, if you are in a long-term married relationship and your wife only sees you attractive when you
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increase in terms of wasteful displays of wealth...
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Like, to be a partner and then feel more secure in your partner choice when your partner spends
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And keep in mind, by the way, the typical male spending for sexual signaling, you know, cars,
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This is not really stuff that benefits a female partner.
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You know, taking a female partner for a ride to the store in your fancy car, I'm sorry.
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Maybe buying a nicer house, maybe getting nice furniture or luxury trips, you know, stuff
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But that's not what is happening in these displays.
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You know, the classic displays are the expensive suit, the Rolex, the car.
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Yeah, who are you spending all this time improving your body for, right?
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If you're, you've got a wife, you've got kids, you know, if you're spending X many hours
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I mean, obviously, being healthy is important, right?
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There is a health body, and then there is a body that you are obviously sacrificing health
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And it is as I think obscene as a woman who is married walking around in a very skimpy
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And what's really interesting is you'll hear arguments from men who indulge in this that
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really mirror the arguments you're hearing from women who indulge similarly.
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Oh, like my husband likes it slash my wife likes it, right?
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Well, I would say the first one that I think you hear is, I just like doing it for me.
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It's like, if you talk to a woman, you call a woman out on this and you see this, you know,
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because there were other women in that room who had clearly done this before where you're
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like, why are you posting thirst trap photos on public profiles when you're a married
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And they're like, well, I like doing it for me.
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Now, where guys may have some level of cover is they could say, well, yes, but the intended
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And, you know, the same, now the same argument could be used for other women.
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I mean, many people have argued that women only wear makeup really for other women, which
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I mean, they do to an extent, you know, within these inter-women social status hierarchies.
00:09:00.320
If you're doing it for other women or other guys.
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So if I am a woman and I am posting thirst trap photos to signal to other women, my relative
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hierarchy within those female social circles, I am judging my hierarchy by my desirability
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You're still competing along what you would consider like assorted or misaligned.
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There are ways that women can signal hierarchy to other women that are not about how attractive
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Whether it is your career or your kids or your husband, like people, when they go to
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your Instagram and you can go to her Instagram, Simone H Collins.
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No, but it is, it is signaling your status to other women.
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You are signaling your status to other women on this account through your husband's dedication
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I have this amazing husband and these amazing kids.
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Like I found this account like long after we'd been married.
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It's just my husband is sweet to me all the time.
00:10:13.680
But that is how you are social signaling to your friends, right?
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In other words, you're saying, you know, in response to the female argument of, oh,
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I just want to, I enjoy this or I want to show my status.
00:10:23.620
Because, well, you can show your status in ways that aren't thirst trappy and that do
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still appeal to both men and women, just not in a way that's like a signaling sexual
00:10:35.260
But I think the same thing's happening with men.
00:10:39.860
And actually, you know, the guys that I follow on Instagram are posting pictures of their
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I mean, there are multiple ways that a man can compete within his social hierarchy of other
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He can compete by showing how dedicated his wife is to the kids, showing their lifestyle
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together, showing the things they do together, or he can compete by showing the wealth shit
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And if you are showing the wealth shit you're buying, you are clearly signaling, you know,
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And it is not the long-term partner status game.
00:11:17.000
And I think historically society understood this.
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It is obscene and vulgar for a man to indolently show signs of wealth like this.
00:11:31.920
But riddle me this, because there's this one thing that gets me a little confused.
00:11:37.240
And we saw a lot of this when we lived in Miami.
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There were plenty of Miami couples where the man did the suit and the Rolex and the car and
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his girlfriend did the looks like an Instagram model thing with extremely revealing clothing,
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So here you have a couple where both are doing that and they're very much, and I know couples
00:12:00.760
Like, I have followed them because some of them had been clients of our business who together
00:12:06.760
post a lot of images of themselves both in those things.
00:12:10.900
You know, the woman is extremely scantily clad.
00:12:16.940
Are you trying to say that they're both trying to signal sexual availability?
00:12:20.800
No, I actually think this is a very unique phenomenon.
00:12:26.540
So in the trophy wife dynamic, an individual has a wife specifically because of how that
00:12:32.960
wife positively augments their status in a sexual context, right?
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Like they want the wife to be attractive and vapid and to show other men how quote unquote
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submissive and breedable they are, but like they don't actually breed them, right?
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The thing about trophy wives is that they are fundamentally disposable.
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And this is why a woman should never, ever, ever marry a man as a trophy wife.
00:13:03.720
And the reason is, is because as you age as a woman, your value on the sexual marketplace
00:13:09.860
The core reason this guy wants you, the reason why he's letting you post all this thirst trap
00:13:16.000
Is because he is showing off your sexual value to his male friends.
00:13:20.180
Well, the problem here is that if that is the value that he sees in you, a younger woman
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is always going to be able to out-compete you in that value set.
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If that is all you're bringing to the relationship, you're bringing no productivity gains, no children,
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Of course, he's just going to trade you in for a younger model.
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You've got no skills and no career, nothing to fall back on at all.
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You are completely both used and disposable and disposed.
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And I think a lot of women don't realize what's happening in this.
00:14:01.640
I think in these instances, you know, it's clear what the guy is doing.
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If the guy is using you, your body, to sexually signal to his friends, you are disposable to him.
00:14:20.980
Well, so, I mean, basically, it's this, it almost sounds like a weird predator-prey situation
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where the prey is going around being like, look at me, she's so great.
00:14:30.840
And they have no idea that they're on the chopping block, like, already by design.
00:14:35.060
Well, they've turned themselves into a product.
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And they, I mean, the thing is, is that if you're a woman, this is always the option if
00:14:47.380
And this is one of the things, you know, so a lot of, you know, red pill guys are like,
00:14:56.860
They have dumber temptations that are easier to fall into that fuck up their lives more than
00:15:03.920
Yeah, like men are more likely, in other words, to be forced to build a strong job and
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career independence, at least financial independence, and, you know, at least to be able to fend
00:15:15.420
Whereas women are encouraged, incentivized by societal norms to, you know, focus on a very
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fleeting asset, which is their youth and beauty, to like, to enter a relationship in which they
00:15:35.980
I mean, a smart male, definitely, and a smart female.
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Like, if I was to compare the two, smart male, smart female, equal attractiveness, the man,
00:15:50.640
Because they can utilize these assets, they can see what's out there, they can see the
00:15:54.940
But when I'm talking about a dumb male and a dumb female of above-average attractiveness,
00:16:00.160
I actually think that the dumb male has it much better than the dumb female.
00:16:04.440
Well, yeah, because essentially the dumb male will have a harder time doing dumb shit, right?
00:16:10.780
They'll have a harder time truly fucking up their life in the way that a woman will be
00:16:16.480
Well, they're less likely to be successful at doing dumb things, whereas women are more
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likely to be successful at doing dumb things that will hurt them over the long run,
00:16:28.440
Well, this is something that you had said to me recently, and I'd love you to go over
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and hear the MGTOW thing, where you're like, look, if you're a guy, like, and you get fucked
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I'm really referring to uncoupled men and women.
00:16:46.100
So while a lot of people are looking now at, like, men's rights movements, you know,
00:16:52.140
people who are aware of how men are screwed over in divorces, how men are screwed over
00:16:58.680
Like, really, societal forces are way more against men than women, which would lead people
00:17:08.840
When you actually look at rates of unhappiness and mental health problems, who has a bigger
00:17:15.640
It is young women, specifically progressive young women.
00:17:20.560
So even if they technically have it easier, they're the ones who are really hurting most
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in society and who appear to be failed most by society.
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And part of that's, I feel like young men aren't really allowed to decide that they've
00:17:38.340
Whereas societal narratives are such that young women are encouraged to believe that they're
00:17:43.480
We saw this in, for example, Ayla's research, where she found among the same group of young
00:17:47.840
men and women, the young women somehow believed that they had, you know, more abusive childhoods
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and their families somehow made less money, even though this is, again, the same sample.
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So there's this, like, skewed perception of reality among young women.
00:18:01.860
So, yeah, I feel like even though society is more unfair toward men, it hurts young women
00:18:09.420
And I think a lot of that comes down to contextualization.
00:18:15.700
Like, I look at the world today and I'm like, okay, if I was a young man and I was going
00:18:21.640
out there and at least there were sources for me, places I could go, I think, realistically
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that have online, like, large communities that would set me on the right path.
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They aren't necessarily going to support you or give you a big hug or tell you that you're
00:18:39.480
doing the right thing, they're going to set you on the right path.
00:18:41.780
Keep in mind that these support networks that you would go to, though, would often do things
00:18:46.280
that society today would say are cruel or mean because they're not necessarily saying,
00:18:55.280
They might be saying stuff like, oh, yeah, you actually do look like a fat slob.
00:19:01.760
So they'll say harsh things to you that are considered cruel or even bullying by modern
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society, whereas women, I think, actually do have what someone would intuitively assume
00:19:13.340
You know, women have all these different support groups and, you know, they'll be like, oh,
00:19:18.880
But ultimately, that's doing them way more harm.
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So, you know, by saying you had support online, I don't want people to feel misled.
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Women are finding a lot of support, but it's very toxic.
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If you look at the psychological health of young women, it is obviously and measurably
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worse than the psychological health of young men.
00:19:41.300
And the more they get sucked into this progressive cultural sphere, the worse their psychological
00:19:47.980
It is really shocking when you look at just how fucked young women are in our current society.
00:19:53.800
They are told to indulge in themselves, to burn their soul in a bonfire of their own
00:20:00.500
And as a result, they feel hollow and worthless.
00:20:05.480
And it is, in the moment, always easier to strike out for whatever small happiness that
00:20:16.400
It turns to ash in their mouth, you know, King Midas, right?
00:20:19.560
Like, they think they have youth and beauty, and so they try to go for all of the wonderful
00:20:35.820
It feels good momentarily, but then causes them suffering.
00:20:41.820
Because what they don't understand is they think the things that they have been consuming
00:20:48.820
They think that it's the dick that was the problem.
00:20:54.780
But no, it was the people who built this structure and society for them, the feminists, who built
00:21:06.580
And so you have movements like the MGTOW that have broken from our society and say, OK, we're
00:21:15.140
And through that, these individuals have come to positions that are psychologically more
00:21:20.980
But they are also susceptible to the same vices that these young women are susceptible to.
00:21:27.440
You know, these young women are susceptible to believing that their status hierarchy gets
00:21:32.880
And if you look within the MGTOW community, I think the biggest vice and the number one
00:21:36.780
thing that needs to be shamed within the MGTOW community is individuals showing off fancy
00:21:41.420
cars, showing off wasteful expenditures of wealth.
00:21:46.040
Because through that, they are still showing that they have not broken out of the system.
00:21:54.600
Because now that I think about it, one of the top things that happens to many, I guess,
00:21:58.980
newly converted MGTOW men is they post photos of the really fancy cars and watches they're
00:22:06.140
able to get because they're not spending money on women.
00:22:10.080
It's like those things were only a value to you because women thought they were a value.
00:22:15.020
So I guess I'll try to push back and steel man this, even though I largely agree with you.
00:22:19.940
I mean, men also like to signal power to other men.
00:22:23.420
And I think there's a decent amount of competitiveness among men and a desire to show status and have
00:22:30.040
How else are men supposed to show to their male friends if that's all that they care about,
00:22:36.180
Well, so I think that this is a really important question.
00:22:40.740
Like a woman's, well, even if I am isolating myself from men, even if I'm saying I'm only
00:22:46.560
going to interact with women going forward, I'm only going to do women things, I'm not going
00:22:49.840
to get married, they might still post a bunch of thirst trap photos, right?
00:22:55.120
When I think about like lesbian or political lesbian communities, I don't think of.
00:23:06.640
You'd be like, don't you see that you're still playing into the old system?
00:23:15.440
A fancy car itself has no value to you other than the value that you were told it had was
00:23:22.520
And you can say, well, I think it's cool, but not really.
00:23:26.120
I mean, you think it's cool because, you know, that's the way you contextualize it, right?
00:23:34.820
So you as an adult, you say, how do I show my status among other men?
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Do something fucking meaningful with your life.
00:23:41.960
Because there are meaningful things you can do with your life other than spend it on vanity
00:23:46.740
items, which you constantly are flapping around other men, like a woman flapping around her
00:23:52.500
breasts with pasties on, you know, it is, no, I mean, it's accurate.
00:23:59.120
Interestingly, and to me, very similarly, when I see older men do this, right, it reminds me
00:24:05.560
a lot of, of a older woman trying to show off her sexuality, like a Madonna showing off
00:24:11.900
Every time I see some old man was eight fancy cars in his garage and he's married.
00:24:16.220
And I'm like, why aren't you investing in your kids' companies?
00:24:19.940
Why aren't you helping them get off the ground?
00:24:21.960
And if you don't have kids, why aren't you putting money into causes that you care about?
00:24:26.100
The world is literally falling apart and you are sexually signaling to a fucking mirror.
00:24:36.780
I mean, it is interesting that it isn't seen as obscene in society for a man to signal his
00:24:44.660
wealth as it is for a woman to signal her sexual availability.
00:24:48.920
And why I think it's uniquely strange is that we already live in a society that, that demoralizes
00:25:01.920
So there's easy glib answers I could get, right?
00:25:09.660
They don't want money that could go to fixing things to go to fixing things because fixing
00:25:19.700
I'll tell you why, because I don't think it interferes because I think that a lot of
00:25:26.020
beliefs are, are, are, are held via cultural evolution.
00:25:30.720
If a belief genuinely challenges an existing cultural group, like if I teach my kids something
00:25:35.940
that prevents them from deconverting and converting into the urban monoculture, well, then the urban
00:25:41.860
If there's something that keeps my kids in my cultural group, well, then the urban monoculture
00:25:47.340
If there's something, you know, any, anything like that, right?
00:25:49.660
The urban monoculture is going to shame, but if, if, if, if alternative, um, I am a old
00:25:58.300
failed man who is wasting away his money on indulgences that I am signaling to a fucking
00:26:06.440
void that really doesn't interfere with any of the urban monoculture's plans for the world.
00:26:16.940
You are neutering the financial impact you could have on anything from elections to nonprofits
00:26:22.420
to advocacy, to starting new companies, and you are doing it for no real benefit to yourself
00:26:30.060
other than to your ego, which, you know, as, as, as we say, the soul burns on the bonfire
00:26:36.460
of vanities, you know, you are destroying yourself with these actions.
00:26:41.440
And a lot of men who have, you know, sunk cost fallacy, I'll say this, like the guy in
00:26:46.020
the just pearly sings interview, and they'll be like, I wasted my money on that or I didn't
00:26:53.060
How dare you tell me that this was a, a, an indulgence.
00:26:56.880
How dare you tell me that indulgences are always wicked.
00:27:01.140
Um, how dare you, uh, challenge my world framing that made me feel like a good and successful
00:27:07.940
Well, and there's also a complication that you're not mentioning here as well, which
00:27:12.400
is this man's career was built on selling a product that does exactly this type of social
00:27:19.800
And he, he banks on, on selling that social signaling value to young men.
00:27:26.660
So he really can't, he, he wouldn't be allowed to agree with you unless he wanted to undermine
00:27:33.860
No, I'm just talking generally about guys, not about this guy specifically.
00:27:37.760
But I'd say if you're a young guy, when you're young, you know, you can signal to your male
00:27:42.920
friends by who you're dating or something like that.
00:27:48.200
Like I think it's indulgent and wasteful, but do it if you want to.
00:27:52.080
But as you get older, expect to change what you're using to signal to other people.
00:27:58.120
The, the amount that you are glorifying your wife, the, the, the way that you treat her,
00:28:03.540
the way that you treat your kids, those are the true signs of status.
00:28:07.540
Once you are in a long-term monogamous relationship and, and don't forget it.
00:28:21.680
Like when I'm looking through Facebook and I'm like, is this, does this person have a
00:28:32.000
I'm like, shit, you know, I know I post those photos, but I don't, I don't do that enough
00:28:43.280
Those are the moments that I wish I spent more time on.
00:28:52.960
I'm trying to think of any other counter argument that someone might have to this.
00:28:57.520
I mean, if someone just says they really, really like collecting cars and, you know,
00:29:03.800
you know, a lot of smart people who I think have collected really good sports cars who
00:29:15.340
Do you think that there, there's a decent number of men who just like, well, that's an
00:29:20.860
So it's just, you know, I, I, I do things that are driven partially by addiction as
00:29:25.880
But I do not pretend that they are a status symbol.
00:29:30.460
It is pathetic men who treat how much they can drink or how much they do drink as if it's
00:29:38.240
Actually the, the friend of yours that I'm thinking who, who we know who's bought the most
00:29:47.200
It is something you should be ashamed of your magic, the gathering.
00:29:50.660
I don't think he was ashamed of it because he would like sell them and make money.
00:29:59.820
Well, I mean, no, I mean, it was for him was a combination of a hobby to an investment
00:30:02.940
because he would ultimately make money, but then he got to drive around luxury cars and,
00:30:10.060
So I guess, and I think the same could be said of women, like a lot of women just.
00:30:14.380
I think this is the case with, I think about all the women in very conservative Islamic
00:30:19.280
nations, like wearing, you know, a ton of, of covering, but then at home they're like
00:30:26.800
Like they're just, they have a ton of couture under that isn't necessarily super modest.
00:30:32.840
So like they go, they go home, all the outerwear comes off and they're wearing this stuff.
00:30:42.680
The women in, in Islamic countries who signal wealth through clothing, they do it through
00:30:49.260
like diamond encrusted hub jobs and stuff like that.
00:30:55.400
And I know enough Islamic families where I have seen women at home and at home.
00:30:59.520
I have never seen a woman who looks wealthier when she's not in full outfit than she does
00:31:10.240
Probably not my most accurate source of cultural.
00:31:14.480
There are a lot of women in these countries who will signal stuff with like diamond crusted.
00:31:18.860
They actually have to do with like phone coverings and stuff like that, but they, they, they
00:31:22.560
never look more expensive under their outfits than they do outside of their outfits from
00:31:37.700
If fans have experienced something different, let me know.
00:31:39.960
Just, I'm not doubting my experience, but you know, the number of Muslim women who wear
00:31:45.260
really conservative clothing that I have seen in or heard about in less than extremely formal
00:31:51.640
environments is obviously going to be small because I am a male.
00:31:55.140
So there are likely listeners to this podcast who would have had more experience with this
00:32:00.400
A little anecdote here I wanted to share with people that to me really helped me recognize
00:32:04.220
that some Muslim cultural groups are extremely similar to cultural groups near the areas I
00:32:10.760
grew up in, in Texas is I was hanging out with one of my Emirati friends in, I think it was
00:32:21.000
He always wore really formal, conservative, you know, religious outfits from my perspective,
00:32:30.400
Because he didn't, I don't know, he hadn't tied something correctly or something like
00:32:34.840
And we were about to leave the house and his mom was like, don't you dare leave the house
00:32:41.800
You look like a fucking Egyptian when you do that.
00:32:44.840
And I just thought it was so funny because it's just, it's the type of off color insult