Based Camp - Men Give Up On Women & Start Families On Their Own： The Internet Gets Big Mad

00:00:00.000 Hello, Malcolm.

00:00:01.080 I'm excited to be with you today because we're seeing a really good

00:00:04.980 trend, but also it's complicated in that men are going baby crazy.

00:00:09.540 They're getting baby fever, but now everyone hates them for it. 0.98

00:00:12.760 So screw them, right? 0.96

00:00:14.580 And this kind of exploded across X earlier this week when poor, poor 0.87

00:00:19.500 Ben Orenstein shared his sentiment in response to Romy Holland tweeting.

00:00:26.480 I know two guys who are considering having kids be a surrogate because

00:00:30.360 they badly want children, but haven't been able to find partners to do it with.

00:00:34.840 They're both extremely successful and love kids.

00:00:37.620 I don't know what's going on with dating, but I don't think it's just men

00:00:40.600 being anti-commitment and women being too picky to which Ben responded.

00:00:45.560 I'm giving myself about another year before searching for a partner,

00:00:49.580 but we'll then pursue single fatherhood.

00:00:52.540 I'm still hopeful it won't be necessary, but in the end,

00:00:55.160 I can't allow myself to miss out on raising children.

00:00:58.220 Even having gone this long without them is agony.

00:01:01.360 So this is the tweet that sparked the storm, which inherently-

00:01:05.980 I get this.

00:01:07.580 If I didn't have kids at this stage of my life,

00:01:09.560 I would be living in existential agony every day.

00:01:13.180 And that's, isn't that what women are complaining about? 1.00

00:01:16.360 Like, oh, these men, they don't want kids.

00:01:18.400 Like, I just wish I could find a man who wants to have kids.

00:01:21.680 And here's a man who's saying that not having kids is agony.

00:01:25.920 In a world of demographic collapse and people not having kids-

00:01:28.600 It's funny.

00:01:28.940 I hear the exact opposite.

00:01:30.000 I think I hear a lot more men who want kids struggling to find a woman who is willing to

00:01:34.080 have kids.

00:01:34.360 Well, that's what shows up in the data, for sure.

00:01:36.720 It's not what shows up in women's complaints when they're dating. 1.00

00:01:39.820 But in the data, when you look at polling, as we've covered extensively,

00:01:43.700 it's men who report wanting to get married and have kids and women don't.

00:01:47.000 And certainly also culturally, women talk about the mental load and how women fare better 0.91

00:01:53.100 after divorces, whereas men fare worse and how marriage is just a scam for women. 1.00

00:01:58.740 So you're right.

00:02:00.160 But still, I just feel like in general, it's great that men want to have kids, but 0.77

00:02:04.980 screw them for that.

00:02:07.000 So while a lot of people initially responded to his post saying, oh, I hope you find your 0.88

00:02:12.120 person.

00:02:13.400 Like, this is wonderful.

00:02:15.860 I'm sorry you're struggling with this.

00:02:18.920 Then the criticism came in, which is what X is great for.

00:02:22.220 It's not as good since Elon took over because all the super liberal people went to blue sky

00:02:28.160 and stopped, you know, all the hate went there, which is a little annoying.

00:02:30.940 I thought it was better with more.

00:02:31.880 Yeah, we joked that they, because Trump trapped them in a crystal and that's blue sky.

00:02:36.360 And now they're just like yelling.

00:02:38.060 Nobody can hear them banging on the walls of the crystal dimension.

00:02:45.860 You will let down before me, Jor-El!

00:02:55.820 Both you and them one day, Jor-El!

00:02:59.080 Yeah.

00:03:00.060 So, you know, a lot of people were supportive, but then some details came out that people found

00:03:05.180 irksome.

00:03:05.780 So, one of the biggest problems that came out initially was that, in fairness, Ben is

00:03:11.660 only, in his words, kind of committed to monogamy.

00:03:16.200 Someone had posted, before I send your profile to a friend, and just based on the water you

00:03:22.180 seem to be swimming in, I have to ask, are you looking for a monogamous relationship? 0.92

00:03:26.860 To which Ben responded, kind of.

00:03:29.680 Gonna add a section about this to my doc shortly.

00:03:32.140 I guess he probably has a marriage bounty, I haven't found the doc yet.

00:03:35.240 And then, Jesse Gannett weighed in, kind of, I gotta be blunt, as a pregnant lady who has 0.98

00:03:41.320 children, this is disqualifying.

00:03:43.480 Childbearing requires monogamy, full stop.

00:03:46.360 Children need a strong partnership.

00:03:48.160 Adults that don't grasp that family formation comes before keeping intimacy options open,

00:03:54.780 aren't cut out for it.

00:03:55.980 To which Ben responded, strong partnerships and monogamy are not the same, and people

00:04:01.680 confuse this to their extreme detriment.

00:04:05.380 So, already, there's some disagreement.

00:04:06.820 That is not true, by the way.

00:04:07.500 They are highly correlated.

00:04:10.180 Like, but I'd also point out here, this is one of these, you know, poly things that they

00:04:13.920 always are like, and usually they're like, you can be just as committed to your partner

00:04:16.440 as a monogamous couple.

00:04:18.060 And they're like, you really actually can't.

00:04:21.800 If you're having to split your commitment, especially if you have kids with someone, between

00:04:25.300 multiple families, you're not actually dedicated to that person.

00:04:29.480 But it's more than that.

00:04:31.460 It is that once you, and this is the thing, I don't think that this should be disqualifying

00:04:35.180 for him, because I've seen it over and over and over again.

00:04:37.560 When people who are sort of committed to polyamory, or even quite committed to polyamory, have

00:04:44.180 children, that commitment evaporates really quickly, especially for guys.

00:04:49.040 Yeah, because they're, as we've covered extensively, their testosterone plummets.

00:04:53.280 This was recently attested to, I think, a new research as well.

00:04:55.900 It showed just how much testosterone plummets after men have kids.

00:04:59.480 And yeah, then they just have less of a desire to go out and have, you know, a lot of additional

00:05:05.260 partners.

00:05:05.980 I would also, though, I would say that there is a little bit of criticism that I think is

00:05:10.800 due to Ben.

00:05:11.300 Because if you really do want to prioritize having kids, and most women aren't really 1.00

00:05:14.820 comfortable having kids outside of a monogamous marriage, you might need to let that go for

00:05:19.840 a little bit and maybe renegotiate later in your marriage.

00:05:23.280 When you got married to me, this was something we discussed.

00:05:26.640 I think you certainly, like Ben, going into the concept of marriage, did not intend to be

00:05:32.960 monogamous.

00:05:33.600 In fact, for a while before we got married, you were like, oh, Simone will be my side piece

00:05:38.820 after I get married.

00:05:39.880 That was like, I really think it was something you were entertaining mentally, because I think

00:05:44.940 it's just something that men at that age will entertain.

00:05:48.240 But then when we got serious, and when we got committed, I was like, listen, like, I'm

00:05:51.800 not comfortable with an open relationship or a monogamous relationship.

00:05:57.180 And you respected that.

00:05:58.720 And then it was after I felt more secure in myself and in our relationship, there was

00:06:02.960 like, dude, I don't care.

00:06:03.860 You do what you want to do.

00:06:04.960 Like, I'm confident enough in myself that I don't think that you're having a good relationship.

00:06:08.120 But by that time, I was like, I don't see the point anymore.

00:06:10.680 See, and that's the thing.

00:06:11.580 And so it all resolves itself.

00:06:13.440 But the thing is, is that you knew what your priorities were.

00:06:16.820 Your priority was having a family and having kids.

00:06:20.400 And to get that-

00:06:21.780 That's actually a great way to put it.

00:06:22.980 Yeah, when we got married, I still wanted to sleep with other people.

00:06:26.220 But you didn't, because you had something you wanted more.

00:06:29.420 I have something I wanted more.

00:06:30.060 Here's him saying, I don't, I'm not willing to concede on that, which is a signal that

00:06:35.520 he isn't as committed as he should be if he actually, if, if having, if not having kids

00:06:41.100 is actually agony to him.

00:06:42.340 But I should, other than the audience, basically, you knew that I wanted to sleep with other

00:06:46.740 people.

00:06:47.140 I found other women attractive. 0.98

00:06:48.800 Yeah.

00:06:49.100 I decided not to.

00:06:50.880 Yeah.

00:06:51.060 Because you were more important.

00:06:52.580 My family was more important than that.

00:06:54.200 Yeah.

00:06:54.560 But then one day you come to me and you're like, you know what?

00:06:56.880 I'm feeling very secure.

00:06:58.140 And if you, if you, if that's still something that would make you happy, you can do that

00:07:01.880 if you want to.

00:07:02.400 And I was like, well, I don't really want to do it anymore.

00:07:04.780 Maybe that's why you feel secure.

00:07:06.300 But still, still, I think, again, you got to put your money where your mouth is.

00:07:11.120 And that is an issue.

00:07:12.660 Still, though, I want to point out, it wasn't just-

00:07:14.680 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:07:15.700 I want to point something out here.

00:07:16.720 So you've got people like me who are like not that dedicated to the polyamorous lifestyle,

00:07:20.960 but I want to talk because, you know, we've had them on the show and it's a pretty

00:07:23.760 documented change of theirs, you know, like Joffrey Miller and what's her face?

00:07:27.540 Diana Fleishman.

00:07:28.100 Diana Fleishman.

00:07:29.140 They're married.

00:07:30.040 They have kids now.

00:07:30.940 And they have things that they have like written on like the philosophy of like polyamory,

00:07:35.080 right?

00:07:35.260 Like if you go back to some of their earlier works, like this is, they, they weren't just

00:07:38.920 like polyamorous.

00:07:39.760 They were like the promoters of it, right?

00:07:41.980 And now they are, I think quietly and eventually likely publicly moving towards a much more

00:07:49.940 monogamous structure that they have kids. 0.98

00:07:51.460 Well, they're raising kids.

00:07:52.440 I mean, like these things ebb and flow and that's how you should treat it.

00:07:57.400 But anyway, there, there were plenty of people who still nevertheless were supportive.

00:08:02.780 Captain Weak Hands said, my baby sister was born via surrogacy and we had a lasting close

00:08:09.160 relationship, not only with the surrogate, but our family as well.

00:08:12.460 I've yet to hear from a surrogacy critic with any lived experience.

00:08:15.560 And then Ilaria DeMar said, my neighbor loved being a surrogate. 0.99

00:08:21.120 I'm pretty conservative, but don't see how surrogacy is any different than infant adoption.

00:08:25.560 The surrogate is often using someone else's eggs, wants what's wrong with gamete donation.

00:08:31.120 Humans have been raising a non-biological offspring for a very long time. 0.74

00:08:35.020 But then the critics came in again, Ben, a different Ben said, dude is almost ready to

00:08:40.060 give up on his wife search and buy a baby, but he's looking for a monogamous relationship

00:08:45.280 kind of.

00:08:46.560 Sure.

00:08:46.800 Being a dad is the greatest thing, but buying a baby is dark.

00:08:50.520 Earn the love of a good woman and turn that love into kids.

00:08:54.540 And then most, so Ben was a male critic here, but most of the critics here were actually women,

00:08:59.500 which I think is just notable.

00:09:01.280 Schrodinger's lesbian chimed in to say. 1.00

00:09:03.600 Women be mad that men have other options. 1.00

00:09:05.980 Yeah, exactly.

00:09:07.200 Chimed in to say another reason why I changed my position on surrogacy.

00:09:10.400 These people do not care about the welfare of the babies or mothers.

00:09:13.780 To them, a baby is a mere commodity.

00:09:16.460 I have seen nothing that suggests that he feels that way.

00:09:18.860 No, absolutely not.

00:09:19.980 No, no.

00:09:20.660 Because he's saying not having kids as agony for him.

00:09:23.480 Emma O'Connor chimes in to say, I changed my position as well.

00:09:27.480 Ben is acting like he's owed a child.

00:09:30.580 Victoria.

00:09:31.260 Hold on.

00:09:31.780 These women are the reason why. 1.00

00:09:33.620 This is the thing.

00:09:34.500 We're going to get out there.

00:09:35.660 Conservative men.

00:09:36.440 We're like surrogacy, surrogacy, surrogacy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:09:38.780 And I understand surrogacy is not sustainable.

00:09:41.200 I don't think it's the greatest thing ever.

00:09:44.360 However, I am very confused when it's like, but you know that there are not enough good

00:09:49.960 women for the good men in this world.

00:09:51.820 Like when I was taking every guy who I thought was like mentally sane and stable and had a

00:09:57.220 good job and would be a great dad, I would bet there are probably double the amount of

00:10:02.260 them as there are women that would match them or at least a third. 1.00

00:10:05.380 Well, yeah.

00:10:05.580 And we're not even in China, you know, it's like a literally fewer women. 0.99

00:10:09.680 And then the few that exist is as to see our episode on like dating in China falling apart.

00:10:15.260 Realistically.

00:10:16.700 Yeah.

00:10:17.120 Continue.

00:10:17.960 What, what, what I, I don't have quotes from because I just didn't want to even delve into

00:10:21.440 this, but like, there are also little sub conversations within this whole storm about

00:10:26.360 women being like, you know, and women should have the right to abort and all this. 1.00

00:10:30.900 And so like women are complaining about this man, quote unquote, buying a baby, but then 0.96

00:10:37.000 they're also being like, and I have the right to kill babies whenever I want. 0.95

00:10:40.280 You know, if it's my body, my choice. 0.72

00:10:41.780 And I'm just like, ah, like, I don't, you're casting judgment in a weird way.

00:10:46.060 Another woman, Victoria wrote the problem, the problem people have is that these babies 1.00

00:10:52.360 are created with the purpose of being adopted for money, not the adoption itself.

00:10:56.100 So people are really uncomfortable with the idea of surrogacy and men paying for babies.

00:11:01.600 But again, so here's, here's where men are right now.

00:11:04.220 They're being put in this position where there aren't women who are willing to embark on a 1.00

00:11:08.820 relationship with them, especially if they're not willing to do exactly the type of relationship

00:11:14.240 that these women want. 0.92

00:11:15.260 And then when they just choose to then find a way to put money to the problem and solve

00:11:20.760 it, you know, pay someone to help them make this happen, then they get chided for that

00:11:24.840 as well.

00:11:25.800 Then Eric weighed in to say donating eggs is dangerous for the woman donating the donor and

00:11:32.020 surrogate both take on high doses of hormones.

00:11:35.600 The egg removal procedure can cause ovarian scarring and leave the egg donor infertile.

00:11:40.780 Surrogate pregnancies have three times the complication rate and can cause

00:11:44.240 health issues.

00:11:45.240 Now, this is interesting.

00:11:46.160 And this is something that I, as a man who would be considered considering surrogacy would

00:11:50.160 be like, Oh wait, what's this?

00:11:51.740 So I did look into it.

00:11:52.640 I didn't, I didn't know this, but I asked both grok and perplexity if gestational surrogacy

00:11:57.840 pregnancies have higher rates of complications.

00:12:00.180 And if there's a reporting bias at play, cause I imagine that there would be, um, and long,

00:12:05.020 long story short.

00:12:05.860 Yeah, actually multiple large studies and recent meta-analyses that, that would control for

00:12:11.260 these things indicate that gestational carriers experience substantially like three X an increase.

00:12:18.060 Your body is designed to hold your children, right?

00:12:21.780 Exactly.

00:12:22.140 That's, that's, that's what people think.

00:12:23.560 Yeah.

00:12:23.800 That, that, that, that, the primary theory is that this is not your genetic material and

00:12:27.360 therefore, yeah, there, there's going to be problems.

00:12:30.760 And studies looked at large numbers of pregnancies.

00:12:33.900 So there was one Canadian study that reviewed over 863,000 births and they found that gestational

00:12:40.100 surrogates have a 7.8% rate of severe maternal complications.

00:12:43.860 It's like one out of 10, you as a surrogate are going to have a severe complication.

00:12:49.100 That's, that's pretty serious.

00:12:50.140 I understand that people are like, that's pretty serious.

00:12:52.780 That's pretty big, but that's one out of 10 for, you know, and then nine out of 10 bring

00:12:56.940 a healthy baby into this world that lives an entire life, right?

00:13:00.280 Like the, the, the denying someone of life is a big, big thing to do.

00:13:06.860 And to say that, well, the woman risked her health so that you can, of course, that's

00:13:12.180 a, that is a very sane trade-off one person's health for another person's life.

00:13:17.920 Right.

00:13:18.360 Yeah.

00:13:18.520 That's actually, it's, so that's a really good point because another, another person was

00:13:22.540 pointing out that like their issue with this was the adoption part.

00:13:26.020 So Katie Faust wrote the adults intended parents, the surrogate, and if applicable,

00:13:31.540 the sperm and egg sellers are all often very happy with the surrogacy arrangements, but

00:13:35.480 surrogacy always asks children to sacrifice someone they need, deserve, and have the right

00:13:40.360 to, to which this, this basically this person called Mars, the style oracle said, part of

00:13:46.100 my calling has always been talking about my experience as an adoptee at all costs.

00:13:51.500 Many people have no idea what the average adoptee slash surrogate child experiences, especially

00:13:56.940 when separated from the mother, especially when separated at birth, it can leave an insane

00:14:01.960 void.

00:14:02.440 They proceeded to go into this whole essay on how miserable they were.

00:14:05.420 And I just want to show you like how, how like messed up this person is, but even they

00:14:09.620 are really glad that they're alive still.

00:14:11.280 And that's the point.

00:14:11.900 But they wrote, even growing up with an objectively good childhood, my attachment issues were insane.

00:14:17.960 Seven years of therapy of several modalities were able to get me to the point where my

00:14:22.920 boyfriend at the time could go out for the night and I wouldn't be crying and calling

00:14:27.380 him 60 times, begging him to come back because I couldn't physically get out of the fetal position

00:14:33.140 or move.

00:14:34.220 This is her, this is the therapy that's causing this nonsense.

00:14:37.560 I know, right?

00:14:38.480 It's probably, yeah.

00:14:39.320 I, I, as I said, like of all of the things that happened to me in my childhood, the least

00:14:44.880 traumatic was boarding school.

00:14:46.520 And yet there are entire communities of people who are, who will have these things like, oh,

00:14:50.740 I had to leave my family and I felt, oh, it was so terrible.

00:14:53.400 And I was like, there's, there's a trauma support group for everything.

00:14:57.060 There's a trauma support group for the people who discover siblings of, you know, IVF donors

00:15:02.100 that they find sexually attractive.

00:15:03.640 And they're like, oh, now I'm traumatized because I'm attracted to my brother.

00:15:07.460 It really messes with me because you get people saying this and I think it's a disgusting

00:15:11.860 thing to say.

00:15:12.700 When people say a child deserves two parents, I'm like, it would be great if children got

00:15:18.620 two parents.

00:15:19.280 Right.

00:15:19.980 But there are very few people on this planet who would say, I'd rather not live.

00:15:26.240 I would not be alive.

00:15:27.740 Yeah.

00:15:28.140 Well, and this person wrote, they said, do I think it would be better for me to not exist

00:15:31.900 at all?

00:15:32.200 Well, no, I think it's fine that I'm alive still, but they're, they're glad they exist.

00:15:37.060 And they just, they're just trying to raise awareness about this.

00:15:39.460 And I do want to, this isn't a small point.

00:15:44.040 This isn't, because I get this within conservative communities all the time and people act like

00:15:49.700 they're saying something that is sane and good when they are not, they are saying something

00:15:55.400 that is evil and short-sighted.

00:15:57.860 They are saying that certain humans should have a life denied to them if they can't live

00:16:04.680 life within this person's preferred parameters.

00:16:07.880 Yeah.

00:16:08.100 That is a disgusting thing to say.

00:16:10.320 And you go out there and you think you look cool saying this. 0.98

00:16:13.940 You don't look cool. 1.00

00:16:15.260 You look like a psychopath because. 0.99

00:16:17.300 Well, and if we look at the research, if we look at the, you've made your life is equivalent 0.98

00:16:23.940 in value to the right to having two parents.

00:16:27.020 And these two things are not equivalent in value at all.

00:16:29.980 Not to any living human.

00:16:31.140 They're not, but you've made your point.

00:16:33.020 So in, in terms of men being like, listen, I'm just going to make Tao be a single father.

00:16:38.900 Like, let's actually look at this though.

00:16:40.900 Yes.

00:16:42.160 Adoptees.

00:16:42.600 And we're talking adoptees, you know, do, do have higher rates of mental health problems,

00:16:47.000 but there's a lot of reasons why that's the case.

00:16:49.380 You know, like the people who give children up for adoption often have a lot of issues.

00:16:54.200 You know, maybe their mothers were on drugs or, or, you know, had alcohol problems and

00:16:58.160 also all sorts of other things really complicated, but yeah, absolutely.

00:17:01.440 Adoptees have higher rates of mental health problems compared to non-adopted children.

00:17:05.860 However, children conceived via donated gametes are not equivalent to adoptees for mental health

00:17:12.980 comes.

00:17:13.360 They basically resemble children conceived Nash naturally.

00:17:17.120 So all these people who are trying to equate this, this guy's decision to have a child

00:17:23.140 via surrogacy to a child via adoption.

00:17:26.480 No, like this is totally not fair comparison.

00:17:29.600 There is not a big negative effect for single parents.

00:17:32.460 If the single parent is a male.

00:17:33.840 Well, yeah, so there's, there's that too.

00:17:35.600 So how do children of single fathers fare?

00:17:38.540 So obviously the highest outcomes with greatest stability come from intact marriages and that

00:17:45.820 it really isn't, it helps a lot to have two parents.

00:17:50.160 There's no systematic difference when it's lesbian mothers, once they control for a lot 1.00

00:17:55.540 of factors, same for, same for gay fathers, though, the data shows that the outcomes are

00:18:01.220 equal or better for gay fathers.

00:18:03.260 And then single fathers are better than single mothers, but they are below intact marriages. 0.98

00:18:09.540 But here's the thing is that Ben, the original Ben of the, of this thread in the storm wants

00:18:15.560 to find a partner.

00:18:16.360 And he says that even if he does take this path of having a child via gestational surrogacy,

00:18:21.600 he is going to hopefully find a life partner eventually and raise the child with them.

00:18:27.400 In the interim, he plans on having a lot of help.

00:18:29.820 He wants to have just even for starters, a full-time live-in nanny, which of course made 1.00

00:18:34.440 everyone freak out even more because he doesn't plan on raising the child all by himself.

00:18:40.740 But then of course, if he said he was going to raise a child all by himself within a nanny,

00:18:44.300 people would be like, the child needs more support than that.

00:18:47.200 So like, there's nothing that he can do.

00:18:48.700 Right.

00:18:48.980 And I think this is the thing is we have a decent number of MGTOW people in this, in this 1.00

00:18:53.220 audience.

00:18:54.100 Many, many of whom have, we know for a fact had the kids on their own.

00:18:58.640 Many of whom are planning to have kids on their own and don't wait for approval from

00:19:03.880 society, basically.

00:19:05.020 Like no matter what you do, you are going to be defenestrated.

00:19:08.320 And this whole Twitter storm around Ben absolutely shows that.

00:19:13.280 We've had fans of the show reach out to us about their journey on this.

00:19:16.000 And we're going to go over one because he goes over all the finances of doing it and

00:19:18.520 everything.

00:19:18.900 And it was really cool.

00:19:20.100 Yeah.

00:19:20.660 In fact, let's, let's just dive into that because I think he created a really cool guide.

00:19:25.240 So one, we have obviously like the, the, the coolest audience ever.

00:19:29.640 And one of our audience members, he goes by Revy.

00:19:32.640 He's a MGTOW and he created after going through the process himself, he now has a newborn or 0.94

00:19:38.280 maybe a little bit older than that now who he had through surrogacy.

00:19:42.440 We're going to, he created a surrogacy guide, a Google doc, which we will share.

00:19:46.440 I'll, I'll put it in the description of this video and on the sub-second Patreon, it is

00:19:51.420 called a Revy's surrogacy guide for single men.

00:19:54.360 And he has his son.

00:19:56.500 I think he plans on having more kids and he goes over the whole process of how to do it.

00:20:02.280 And actually affordably, this is, we've, we've done a lot of looking into surrogacy.

00:20:07.900 We have friends who are trying to go through the surrogacy process.

00:20:11.460 This is the best guide that I have seen because we've also like really, we've had friends

00:20:16.880 who've struggled desperately, spent tens of thousands of dollars just in their search

00:20:21.360 for a surrogate in the U S and Revy's just nailed it.

00:20:25.880 And now we're sharing Revy's guide with our friends personally.

00:20:28.540 Cause we're like, okay.

00:20:30.160 I love it.

00:20:30.720 Revy's guide.

00:20:31.260 No, we need to make this a thing in the community.

00:20:32.620 How would I have kids on your own?

00:20:33.800 Revy's guide.

00:20:34.400 Revy's guide.

00:20:35.280 So he, he, he writes at the very beginning, my kid is born.

00:20:37.700 He's super durable and fun to cuddle and hold.

00:20:40.080 I'm planning to have at least two more like good for you, Revy.

00:20:42.960 We are so good for you.

00:20:44.440 I think, you know, as a single dad, three kids, it's going to get harder, you know,

00:20:47.980 if you're a single dad, but if you space it out, the kids can help and they'll appreciate

00:20:51.700 helping.

00:20:52.180 They're, they're growing up in like a total.

00:20:53.580 The thing is, is I think in previous generations, if you, as a single dad told your kid, look,

00:20:58.040 I'm sorry, I just couldn't find a woman sane enough to be your mom. 1.00

00:21:01.440 A lot of kids would be like, well, then you didn't try hard enough or, you know, whatever.

00:21:04.640 I think a lot of boys growing up in today's environment, you know, when they get to middle

00:21:08.760 school and they get to high school, they're like, dad, I hear you like.

00:21:13.580 Yeah.

00:21:14.480 Well, and we have, we've, we've, yeah, we've plenty of, of parents of, of teen kids, men

00:21:19.620 and, and women, young men and women who are both like, I can't be bothered to date.

00:21:23.000 Like it's too much of a liability.

00:21:24.240 So I appreciate that Revy starts off his guy, just saying, listen, for single men that don't

00:21:29.660 want kids, they don't want kids, but for the ones that do want kids, there's a way to do

00:21:34.360 it without the, any of the downsides of dating slash marriage and no risk of having kids taken

00:21:39.260 away and or indoctrinated.

00:21:41.080 So he goes through the process and he, he says, assuming you don't want international

00:21:46.140 surrogacy, here are the logistics.

00:21:47.660 $65,000 for the whole process as of 2025, that is a fraction of what we've seen through,

00:21:56.080 like we'll say mainstream leading American surrogacy agencies, by the way, which are at

00:22:01.620 least $120,000.

00:22:03.740 So Revy's already saving a lot of money for people.

00:22:06.920 He says, add an extra 10,000 for travel expenses, some optional legal expenses, some optional medical

00:22:12.820 expenses.

00:22:13.380 The whole process takes about a year.

00:22:15.340 If anyone asks, you just took a one week vacation followed by a one month vacation a

00:22:19.860 year later.

00:22:20.860 That is incredible because he's also apparently then doing this kind of on the down low.

00:22:24.980 And I think that's a smart way to go.

00:22:26.840 As we can see from this Twitter storm with Ben, like Ben got defenestrated.

00:22:31.220 Revy didn't, you know, he's just quietly building his family and maybe kind of what's going on

00:22:35.500 with male single fatherhood is it's a bad toupee problem.

00:22:38.600 Like you see it when it goes terribly wrong.

00:22:41.320 Same with the surrogacy thing.

00:22:42.520 So what happened most recently in terms of public discourse about surrogacy was Wired

00:22:47.580 released to this article that just really threw surrogacy under the bus as, as a, a thing

00:22:55.660 to do because it was about this really prominent venture capitalist named Cindy Bai in Silicon

00:23:02.980 Valley, who hired two surrogates to carry children for her. 1.00

00:23:07.180 And sadly, she lost one of, one of her babies during the pregnancy.

00:23:12.360 One of her surrogates experienced a stillbirth at 29 weeks.

00:23:16.100 And Cindy just went after this woman publicly online legally is just trying to destroy her. 1.00

00:23:23.040 And this is a woman who chose to become a surrogate in the United States to pay off debts.

00:23:27.900 She was a vulnerable person.

00:23:29.960 And part of the stress that she went through, like throughout this pregnancy, was she changed

00:23:33.920 jobs.

00:23:35.100 You know, she was having trouble with medical insurance because you know, the, the surrogacy 1.00

00:23:38.780 wasn't covering like her.

00:23:40.420 I thought she said this is BS.

00:23:41.340 It was a bad instance.

00:23:42.700 Like, like something happened.

00:23:44.000 That's the thing is it's bad to pay things.

00:23:46.280 So when, when you hear about surrogacy and when you hear about parents going through surrogacy,

00:23:50.460 you hear these nightmares, you don't hear about the revvies.

00:23:53.100 And that's why it's my brother and his wife, this is, you know, pretty public knowledge.

00:23:58.120 They sold and built one of the largest IVF clinics in the United States.

00:24:01.380 My little brother, mind you, just to rub in the salt here.

00:24:04.000 I haven't built a giant international company yet.

00:24:06.780 Anyway, so they build this giant IVF business.

00:24:09.260 And so they work a lot with surrogates and they know a lot of surrogates and they're like,

00:24:12.440 you know, we've got surrogates where it's like their ninth time or whatever.

00:24:15.200 Right.

00:24:15.460 Like this doesn't, there's a limit to the number of times.

00:24:19.060 I can't remember how many times, but they're like, it's, it's often repeat people.

00:24:23.100 This is not a lot of people having negative experiences and the surrogates have a lot

00:24:26.420 of control.

00:24:26.980 You know, we've had friends who've tried to get this and no surrogate has chosen them,

00:24:30.180 right?

00:24:30.360 Like they're just like, yeah, I'm not interested.

00:24:32.220 Yeah, no.

00:24:32.780 Yeah.

00:24:33.120 Typically surrogates have a lot of choice. 0.99

00:24:34.680 Surrogates are, are almost always mothers who typically are married. 0.83

00:24:39.460 So they just, you know, they, they have very stable lives.

00:24:42.380 It was unusual that the surrogate in the Cindy by case who experienced the stillbirth and was

00:24:46.660 attacked was a single mother.

00:24:48.440 Normally they're married.

00:24:50.000 They have kids.

00:24:50.920 They're super happy.

00:24:51.800 Surrogacy is extra money for them.

00:24:53.080 And they consider it a service that really, you know, helps other people.

00:24:55.740 And that's yes.

00:24:56.440 But anyway, let's go back to Revy's guide.

00:24:58.840 So the process and basic thing that he goes through is if you decide to do surrogacy,

00:25:05.500 you refer to as an intended parent, you pick an agency.

00:25:08.800 This is a business that takes your money and then manages all the details of the surrogacy

00:25:12.700 process.

00:25:13.400 They have a medical clinic that they work with a roster of egg donors and a roster of surrogates.

00:25:18.280 So you pick your egg donor.

00:25:19.560 He says, at least for foreign countries, you're pretty much guaranteed eights, nines, and tens,

00:25:23.400 no matter the metric.

00:25:24.760 I'm min-maxed for IQ plus work ethic.

00:25:27.140 So I found someone who was a 10 based on education and career and a seven based on looks.

00:25:32.120 There are some fives in there, but there's no reason to pick them.

00:25:35.360 Obviously, he says, including this comment, since this is super important to you, white 1.00

00:25:40.860 nationalists, racists, most large surrogacy agencies have a ton of European donors.

00:25:45.820 Since they're typically located in large international cities, there's lots of wealthy

00:25:49.420 immigrants and foreign students.

00:25:51.380 Also, white people tend to make up the majority of upper class in Latin American countries.

00:25:55.480 So even if they're nominally Hispanic, they're ethnically white.

00:25:59.020 You can also pick frozen eggs in the US or whatever country with frozen egg banks and

00:26:04.080 have them shipped in.

00:26:05.800 I love that he, cause you know, there, there is that subset.

00:26:07.760 It's like, wow, you gotta, you gotta work it for everyone.

00:26:11.760 Yeah.

00:26:12.340 Yeah.

00:26:12.840 See, that's the next step flying to deposit, to deposit for YouTube.

00:26:17.180 I'll say genetic material.

00:26:18.240 If anyone asks, you're just taking a one week vacation, then there's egg extraction, IVF

00:26:23.060 surrogate match and implantation takes about three months followed by a nine month pregnancy.

00:26:27.360 You don't actually have to do anything at this stage.

00:26:29.680 And that's key because a lot of people will get this impression that you're supposed to like

00:26:32.980 communicate with and micromanage your surrogate, which is what Cindy Bai did, for example. 0.98

00:26:37.160 And that's probably the worst thing you can do.

00:26:38.820 It's really a bad thing.

00:26:39.620 Like, don't do that.

00:26:40.740 Don't, don't do that.

00:26:41.540 Do what Revy did.

00:26:42.400 If you want, you can pay a few thousand dollars extra to do a genetic test to make sure the

00:26:46.300 kid doesn't have any super messed up diseases.

00:26:48.460 It also allows you to choose gender.

00:26:50.700 By the way, massive genetic testing now, which really changes a lot of the science around this.

00:26:54.780 Also in China, for the first time, a child was going to have an extra pair of chromosomes.

00:27:00.080 So it was going to have Down syndrome and they were able to remove this extra pair of chromosomes.

00:27:04.640 And so far, everything's proceeding perfectly healthily.

00:27:07.620 And what this means, you know, as this technology proliferates, because, you know, you have access

00:27:12.980 to it now if you have money.

00:27:14.240 Yeah.

00:27:14.380 If you have a child with Down syndrome now, that is a choice.

00:27:17.560 That is a choice.

00:27:19.060 Well, I mean, but also if you're doing IVF, typically, you know, you can screen for that

00:27:22.740 anyway.

00:27:23.240 Also, you can do polygenic risk for selection.

00:27:24.800 No, no, no, no, no.

00:27:25.460 I mean, even from a Catholic perspective, because the Catholic would say, oh, yeah, I'm not going

00:27:30.060 to screen.

00:27:30.960 I don't need to know this stuff because I'm going to use every embryo I create anyway.

00:27:35.420 If the child.

00:27:36.060 Yeah.

00:27:36.240 But here, if the child has Down syndrome, you can un-Down syndrome them.

00:27:39.540 Yeah.

00:27:39.940 The point here being is that you, and you'll have to explain that to your kid.

00:27:44.060 You'll be like, I could have had you without Down syndrome, but my vanity, the aesthetics

00:27:50.100 of your births, and doing it the quote-unquote natural way.

00:27:53.140 Yeah, I chose to have you in a way that will shorten your lifespan.

00:27:55.720 You're welcome.

00:27:56.340 You're welcome.

00:27:56.640 And reduce your independence.

00:27:57.700 That kind of thing changes a lot of the moral arguments.

00:27:59.820 It does.

00:27:59.980 It changes a lot.

00:28:01.080 We should do a separate episode on that.

00:28:02.380 Let me finish this up, though, okay?

00:28:03.500 Okay, okay, okay.

00:28:04.320 Thank you, because we're running out of time.

00:28:05.780 So, next up, he, obviously, so he's saying you need to genetic testing.

00:28:09.500 We would encourage polygenic risk for selection, because if you're going to, you know,

00:28:12.500 in for time and for a dollar, especially if you're saving this much money by doing it

00:28:15.300 in a place like Mexico, like he did, I think this is, you know, a great way to go.

00:28:18.620 Then he says, approaching nine months, you go on a one- to two-month vacation to the

00:28:22.460 country, be there for the birth of your child, and handle the legal paperwork, getting the

00:28:26.620 U.S. citizenship for your child, finalizing the birth certificate while raising your child,

00:28:30.980 and then you fly back to the U.S. two weeks later.

00:28:33.720 Why it's better to do this in a foreign country? 1.00

00:28:36.720 In the U.S., it's $150,000 or more, which is totally what reflects what we've seen and

00:28:41.740 what we know from Malcolm's family connections in the industry.

00:28:45.020 If you're willing to do a little extra paperwork and traveling, you can save $75,000.

00:28:50.780 That's $75,000 you can leave to your child.

00:28:54.080 Surrogacy agencies in the U.S. just don't have their acts together.

00:28:58.540 Long wait lists for surrogates.

00:29:00.300 Surrogates aren't pre-screened. 0.80

00:29:01.840 This is actually a really important point, is that Miles' brother and sister pointed out

00:29:05.560 that they found many surrogacy agencies, because they ran one, did not rigorously background

00:29:10.760 check.

00:29:11.060 So women might attest to something that wasn't true at all, and no one checked. 0.85

00:29:15.860 Like, they'd be like, oh, I went to Harvard.

00:29:17.060 No one checked Harvard transcripts.

00:29:19.240 They did.

00:29:20.060 But they found that basically other people just didn't.

00:29:22.640 So you don't really know what you're getting in the U.S., which is really scary.

00:29:25.500 Anyway, he goes on.

00:29:26.440 Mostly because of the supply-demand balance in the U.S., there are more intended parents,

00:29:31.700 so you get the wait list and less screening for surrogates.

00:29:34.280 Overseas, there are more surrogates, so there's no wait list, and surrogate screening and requirements

00:29:40.860 are way higher.

00:29:42.280 So you're getting better quality, basically, and lower cost.

00:29:46.200 He continues, depending on the country, your kid gets an extra passport.

00:29:49.760 They will get their passport from the foreign country through birth soil.

00:29:53.100 Also, the U.S. passport through inheritance.

00:29:56.000 It will also significantly reduce your timeline to citizenship if you want to pursue it.

00:30:00.460 Basically, reverse anchor bathing.

00:30:02.020 That's really cool, and I'd never thought about that.

00:30:04.700 Isn't that interesting?

00:30:06.080 Yes.

00:30:06.620 He says better health care.

00:30:08.240 Most non-Western countries have a parallel public health care and private health care

00:30:12.040 system.

00:30:12.800 The public system is obviously bad.

00:30:15.860 The private health care system is as good or better than the U.S. system, and even uninsured

00:30:20.720 costs are a fraction of the U.S. insured co-pay.

00:30:24.300 And that was a key plot point of the whole Cindy Bay debacle with her surrogacy that Wired covered

00:30:30.060 is that the health insurance that the surrogate had fell through, and then there was this

00:30:35.740 concern about who's going to pay for health care bills now that she has to switch, and

00:30:40.440 oh my gosh, what's going to happen, and she wasn't getting really good health care, and

00:30:43.160 all these things.

00:30:44.380 In a country like Mexico, you can just afford it.

00:30:47.240 It's fine.

00:30:47.780 It's not a problem.

00:30:49.660 He goes on.

00:30:50.420 If you are capable of working remotely or you have parental leave, I would recommend

00:30:54.260 staying in the foreign country longer to take advantage of cheap but high-quality private

00:30:58.260 health care and child care, maybe even indefinitely, at least for the first few months.

00:31:03.240 It's not like you're going to have time to work anyway.

00:31:06.100 I mean, I would beg to differ.

00:31:07.200 We worked through all of our newborn phases, but also we're on number five.

00:31:11.240 For this specific country, at the moment of writing this, it's Colombia, Mexico, or Argentina.

00:31:16.160 Previously, it was Ukraine, India, and Thailand.

00:31:18.340 Expect the country to change depending on the political situation of the world.

00:31:22.780 When one country bans it, another country legalizes it.

00:31:25.900 Guaranteed at least one country will allow it.

00:31:28.340 Just find that one country.

00:31:30.400 Revy's done his research.

00:31:32.100 I just really love this guide.

00:31:34.040 Legal safety worries about the egg donor or surrogate claiming child support.

00:31:37.780 All the egg donor knows is that they donated eggs.

00:31:40.740 They are not told anything about you.

00:31:42.280 They will not even know the child exists, as in they're not told their eggs resulted in

00:31:46.820 children.

00:31:47.080 As for the surrogate, they will know that the child is born, obviously. 0.96

00:31:51.060 You're allowed to talk with them for whatever, but you don't have to.

00:31:54.200 If you want, you can cut the surrogate off completely after the child is born. 0.99

00:31:58.040 You also don't have to reveal anything about yourself.

00:32:01.580 All communication is facilitated by the agency to ensure that neither of you does anything 0.97

00:32:06.260 stupid. 0.94

00:32:06.800 If she tries to threaten you, the agency will just tell her, yeah, we're not going to pass 1.00

00:32:10.400 on your threat.

00:32:11.900 Surrogate mother's name will not be on the birth certificate. 0.94

00:32:14.020 The result is the birth certificate with only one name, yours.

00:32:17.320 The DNA test is taken after the birth.

00:32:20.000 Surrogate is required to already have at least one child as well as a husband. 0.94

00:32:24.720 And that's obviously not the case in the U.S.

00:32:26.600 Again, much better to do it in Mexico, at least for now.

00:32:30.800 No, I think it's, by the way, I think it's technically illegal to do it in Mexico.

00:32:33.320 Oh, if you're an American citizen, that's why you have to hide a lot of this.

00:32:37.480 I don't, I don't know because he worked with an agency, so I don't think so.

00:32:41.000 And he can suggest agencies, people DM us if you want his email, also his emails in the

00:32:45.120 guide.

00:32:45.700 Currently it's a Google doc.

00:32:46.760 So he might change it if he gets flooded, but you can DM us partly to make sure she has

00:32:50.580 a track record of giving birth successfully, partly because she loves the child she already

00:32:54.080 has.

00:32:54.600 So it reduces the probability she'll develop an attachment to the child.

00:32:57.860 No, this is not a requirement for surrogates in the U.S.

00:33:00.600 as a result of the supply-demand balance.

00:33:02.900 Again, U.S. risky, don't do surrogates in the U.S. 0.99

00:33:05.160 You're right.

00:33:06.180 Yeah.

00:33:06.380 It's not illegal, yeah.

00:33:07.420 Okay, there you go.

00:33:08.220 So it's fine in Mexico.

00:33:09.320 Surrogates go through a ton of health screening, once when being accepted as a surrogate and

00:33:13.840 another after matching.

00:33:15.540 Note that surrogate in the U.S., surrogates in the U.S. are only screened once they are

00:33:19.480 matched as a result of the supply-demand imbalance.

00:33:21.760 Again, I'm like, oh my gosh, screw surrogacy in the U.S.

00:33:26.600 And then he has additional tips on like, well, should you have a kid through surrogacy?

00:33:31.160 So Simone, how much does it cost the total to do it in Mexico?

00:33:34.160 So he actually, yeah, he has a cost breakdown.

00:33:38.280 My own opinion is that the cost of surrogacy is very little.

00:33:41.700 Obviously, $70,000 is a lot of money by itself.

00:33:45.020 That was when he said it basically illegal fees was $10,000 and then the surrogacy itself

00:33:48.720 and egg donation, everything is $60,000.

00:33:51.300 Isn't that incredible?

00:33:53.220 $60,000 versus $150,000 in the U.S.

00:33:56.300 I'm just like so shocked because I was like, that's what it is in the U.S.

00:33:58.820 So direct cost of raising a child, $300,000, although obviously there are minimalist methods.

00:34:04.880 Colleges around $200,000, although obviously there are alternatives.

00:34:09.200 Reduction in income from spending time at home or public school, $200,000.

00:34:13.080 Reduction in income from spending time at home, homeschool, a million dollars.

00:34:17.200 Assuming homeschool and saving for college, the total cost is $1.5 million.

00:34:21.520 So $75,000 is really basically nothing.

00:34:24.620 He's basically saying like surrogacy versus, you know, like, I don't know, getting a baby

00:34:28.880 mama or something.

00:34:30.280 But I mean, that also has its own risks and expenses, as any MGTOW will tell you. 0.69

00:34:34.580 So, I mean, as Revy points out, surrogacy is a really smart way to go, especially if you're 0.74

00:34:38.560 doing it in a place right now, like Mexico.

00:34:40.680 And he also points out that like, if you're rich, basically like, there's no reason not

00:34:44.660 to do this, like if you care even marginally about kids.

00:34:48.500 Yeah.

00:34:49.060 And he has a dish, there's a ton more in this guide.

00:34:52.180 He's got sort of thoughts on raising kids, how to decide if you want kids, you know,

00:34:57.400 sort of thought experiments, things to consider, you know, he even has a section on pragmatic

00:35:03.940 philosophy, ethics, and public reception.

00:35:06.680 It's a great guide.

00:35:08.260 So again, check it out in the links.

00:35:10.500 But yeah, I mean, in general, here's where I stand.

00:35:12.320 Like, it's very clear from this Twitter storm that men going their own way and having kids

00:35:18.640 are going to be demonized.

00:35:19.640 But also, men going their own way who want to have kids who are conscientious enough to

00:35:24.100 go through this process and raise kids on their own are going to do a bang up job on

00:35:28.160 average.

00:35:28.940 Way better, I think, than probably, you know, a lot of single women, because I think a lot 0.99

00:35:32.280 of single women really take this for granted and like expect, they expect kind of the state 1.00

00:35:38.000 and their family and their friends to kind of come in and just swoop in and save

00:35:42.160 things.

00:35:42.900 Whereas men, no one's going to help them. 1.00

00:35:44.840 And so they are forced to be more conscientious.

00:35:47.480 And we're good parents, I think.

00:35:49.540 There are better forcing functions, I think, with equally competent people.

00:35:53.300 Like if I were me, Simone the female raising a single child, I think I'd be a worse parent 1.00

00:35:58.920 than if I were me, Simon the man raising a single child.

00:36:02.800 Like same me, just like different gender. 1.00

00:36:05.560 So just do it.

00:36:07.720 Just do it.

00:36:08.500 Read the guide.

00:36:09.280 And don't tweet about it if you don't want to get hate, because poor Ben, man.

00:36:13.400 I don't, I mean.

00:36:13.860 Poor Ben's bad.

00:36:14.660 They just want to have kids, you know.

00:36:16.320 Well, the thing that I love, it's become popular online these days for when like attractive

00:36:20.220 girls are streaming and stuff.

00:36:22.040 People post a picture of the rabbit from.

00:36:24.660 Alice in Wonderland?

00:36:25.620 Alice in Wonderland pointing to a clock.

00:36:27.460 Oh, God.

00:36:27.700 And then they've also started putting a picture of Nick Fuentes pointing to a giant clock to

00:36:32.040 be like, your time's running out.

00:36:33.800 The world runs around fertility now, people. 0.87

00:36:36.820 People understand.

00:36:38.460 Oh, my God.

00:36:39.880 Yeah. 0.99

00:36:40.420 You're holding your little parasite. 1.00

00:36:41.520 You see, our parasites come out looking like us. 0.99

00:36:43.520 It's so weird. 0.93

00:36:44.820 Yeah.

00:36:45.100 One of my gay college friends recently had a newborn just around the time that like one

00:36:49.960 month before Tex was born, Tex here.

00:36:52.540 And it's so fun to see his posts.

00:36:54.880 Like, I can't tell if he has a partner or if he's being a single.

00:36:58.560 I think he's being a single dad, actually.

00:37:00.600 And it's just really fun.

00:37:01.660 Like, I'm realizing that single dads who have their kids through surrogacy, they're doing 0.99

00:37:07.260 a bang up job.

00:37:08.520 Their kids are adorable.

00:37:09.600 And they're happy.

00:37:10.880 And I kind of wonder if we're seeing a silent revolution of single men, gay or otherwise,

00:37:17.820 having kids, and who are just going to, like, take over the world.

00:37:21.000 Like, this is the new, this is Patriarchy 2.0.

00:37:23.840 It's MGTOW patriarchy.

00:37:25.520 They're going to build a future.

00:37:26.700 My parents got divorced when I was young.

00:37:27.860 I lived sometimes with my dad, sometimes with my mom.

00:37:29.860 I'd always, like, living with a single dad is actually pretty effing dope.

00:37:34.360 That's so.

00:37:35.060 Because they parent very differently than single moms do. 1.00

00:37:38.420 They actually don't really care what you do that much.

00:37:41.420 They're just like, yeah, do whatever you want to do.

00:37:44.260 And as a kid, that's really fun.

00:37:46.900 That's what you want.

00:37:47.940 Also, like, that's where we, I think, also, as is pointed out in the data, men parent more

00:37:54.360 today than they ever have before.

00:37:56.560 Like, I think society has pushed everyone toward high-touch helicopter parenting.

00:38:01.120 So now, probably the kind of parenting that you're getting from a man or single dad, whatever,

00:38:06.000 married or otherwise, is more akin to what you would get from a full-time housewife in 0.99

00:38:11.960 the 50s, which is the perfect balance. 0.73

00:38:14.660 They nurture more than they ever have before just because of high societal standards.

00:38:19.520 But they are, by the nature of their gender, on average, more likely to be more chill, which

00:38:25.260 is desperately needed.

00:38:26.320 So, yeah, I agree with you.

00:38:27.960 I mean, like, if I were born to a single parent now and I had to choose, like, MGTOW dad 0.89

00:38:34.960 versus MGTOW mom, I would probably choose MGTOW dad. 0.96

00:38:39.720 Yeah.

00:38:41.080 So, not that we, we know, we know MGTOW moms who are absolutely crushing it as well, but 0.96

00:38:46.260 like.

00:38:46.900 Well, you are awesome.

00:38:48.400 I love you, Simone.

00:38:49.480 For dinner tonight, do you have more of the sauce that we need to cook down for the

00:38:54.460 Mongolian beef?

00:38:55.440 So, would you like some bulldog?

00:38:57.100 Would you like some...

00:38:58.540 I would love some beef lo mein.

00:39:00.820 Burmese mint chicken?

00:39:02.380 Some what?

00:39:03.340 Is beef lo mein too hard for you to make tonight?

00:39:06.000 I can make you beef lo mein.

00:39:07.980 With extra chives?

00:39:09.000 Because we've got so many extra...

00:39:09.920 Yeah, yeah, we've got to use those chives.

00:39:11.360 Okay, I'll make you beef lo mein.

00:39:12.520 I just have to remember to soak the noodles first.

00:39:14.440 It's so weird to soak the noodles in cold water for 10 minutes and then boil them.

00:39:18.920 And don't overuse soy sauce.

00:39:20.540 I won't.

00:39:20.940 I'm going to, I'm just going to like, I'm going to have soy sauce and I'm going to double

00:39:24.140 oyster sauce.

00:39:25.640 Just...

00:39:25.920 No, what I would do is have soy sauce and then add in hoisin sauce because the oyster

00:39:32.220 sauce might end up tasting too fishy and hoisin sauce...

00:39:34.060 Okay, so then instead of, okay, yeah, instead of doubling oyster sauce, I'll do oyster sauce

00:39:39.080 and then the same amount of hoisin.

00:39:41.220 Yeah.

00:39:41.400 How about that?

00:39:41.940 Okay.

00:39:42.660 Well, maybe two thirds or half the amount of hoisin because hoisin has a stronger taste

00:39:46.480 than it's oyster sauce.

00:39:47.620 Okay, then, okay, yeah, half.

00:39:49.960 Thank you.

00:39:50.400 I love you.

00:39:50.880 Love you.

00:39:53.940 Good episode.

00:39:55.240 Yeah, fascinating stuff.

00:39:56.680 Also, Revy's guide is just...

00:39:58.000 Yeah, I really appreciate that somebody did this.

00:39:59.940 And I'm really happy for him.

00:40:01.620 Well, his kid's going to appreciate it.

00:40:02.780 I'll tell you that.

00:40:03.600 Well, and also the additional kids he's going to have, hopefully, God willing.

00:40:07.820 I really hope he's got...

00:40:09.300 I mean, but he seems to really just act together.

00:40:11.500 I'll tell you, as a guy, babies, I hate...

00:40:13.920 Well, he's supposed to be nailing it.

00:40:15.700 You're not a...

00:40:16.220 Revy does, but I'm telling you what, when your kids get a little bit older, like...

00:40:19.700 It gets so much better.

00:40:20.740 One year, they're fantastic because then you're not worried about them dying anymore.

00:40:23.120 Like, year two or three, they have, like, personalities and stuff.

00:40:26.440 And then you're like, oh, my God.

00:40:28.040 It just gets better.

00:40:28.380 I made a human. 0.96

00:40:29.600 Like, what the heck? 0.73

00:40:30.620 I love babies.

00:40:31.920 Anyway, okay, gotta run.

00:40:33.100 Love you.

00:40:33.920 Okay, so here's what I wanted to ask you in sort of the pre-part of this episode, okay?

00:40:39.740 Kid names that we're thinking about for our next kid so our fans can give us some advice.

00:40:44.000 Because we're actually struggling with this one.

00:40:45.680 And maybe you guys will be like, oh, this is the...

00:40:50.640 Here's the right name, okay?

00:40:52.640 We were going to do Rex Dyson, but it turns out that that's way too basic.

00:40:56.540 Well, you're afraid because you met another kid in our generation called Rex.

00:41:01.540 I mean, like, young person.

00:41:04.040 Well, no, there's also a kid named Tex at Octavian School, but I don't really care as much because it's a cool name.

00:41:09.420 Whereas Rex, as someone pointed out to us, sounds like a millennial trendy name, whereas Tex is more timeless.

00:41:16.560 And also Tex is kind of a family name.

00:41:19.880 So there are lots of reasons why we like Tex for reasons that are timeless, and it's not seen as a trendy millennial name.

00:41:25.740 Rex is.

00:41:26.800 So we just had to drop it.

00:41:28.320 Okay, next, Tacticus.

00:41:31.080 I love the name Tacticus.

00:41:32.540 Tacticus is a famous Roman who wrote sort of the Western version of Shenzhou's Art of War.

00:41:39.420 This is where our word, Tacticus, comes from.

00:41:41.960 And we could do, like, Tacticus Dyson.

00:41:43.740 We quite like Dyson as a middle name.

00:41:45.440 But there were some other options I had for middle names I don't remember for Tacticus.

00:41:48.820 Do you remember what they were?

00:41:50.400 No, I don't.

00:41:51.320 But other names that we have.

00:41:52.940 Kaiser.

00:41:53.840 Kaiser, Bismarck, Hadrian.

00:41:57.600 You always, you recommended Igneous many times, but I like it. 0.98

00:42:02.000 We're saving Artanus for a girl. 1.00

00:42:04.480 Really? You like Artanus for a girl? 0.52

00:42:06.960 Yeah.

00:42:07.260 Artanus was the first name we wanted for a kid, but I moved away from it because, I don't know.

00:42:14.120 You guys can tell us if you think Artanus is a bad name.

00:42:17.880 It was the former capital.

00:42:19.640 The next girl that we're having, and I'm very convinced on this, Cryptea.

00:42:23.840 Cryptea.

00:42:25.280 You know, the Spartan practice of going out and having to live on your own. 0.82

00:42:30.040 And kill some hellets, you know, whatever. 0.99

00:42:31.880 Kill hellets to survive, yeah. 1.00

00:42:32.860 Hey, that's a bad A name for a girl. 1.00

00:42:36.800 Yeah, Cryptea is a pretty good name for a girl. 0.99

00:42:40.440 That's Adam's family shit right there. 0.99

00:42:42.340 No, that is, yeah. 0.99

00:42:44.360 Cryptea is exactly what Wednesday's little sister would be named.

00:42:48.600 Right.

00:42:50.160 And then, yeah, are there any other names that you're, like, really liking right now?

00:42:53.840 No, I'm stuck.

00:42:56.140 I don't know what we'll name our next son.

00:42:58.660 All right.

00:42:58.980 Well, you guys can let us know among these, and we might share some others with you, because

00:43:02.560 I'll review the next time we ask you.

00:43:04.520 All right, let's go.

00:43:06.160 All right.

00:43:07.600 Here we go.

00:43:09.000 Oh, I guess I have to be.

00:43:10.940 I need at least one hand for my notes.

00:43:12.900 Oh, well.

00:43:14.680 What the heck's happening over here, guys?

00:43:16.840 Look at what it looks like.

00:43:18.780 I can see.

00:43:19.840 Do you not point those at me?

00:43:20.680 Yeah, I'm not going to shoot you.

00:43:22.740 Don't worry.

00:43:23.920 Do not point it at me. 0.99

00:43:25.180 I didn't say don't shoot you. 0.91

00:43:26.060 I said don't point it.

00:43:27.080 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:43:29.420 Can I point it at the world?

00:43:32.340 Oh, I'm stuck down.

00:43:37.580 And are you guys going to take over the world?

00:43:40.360 I have a smartphone.

00:43:41.840 Like this?

00:43:43.120 It's very easy to eat.

00:43:45.120 And then how can we?

00:43:46.940 It's a house.

00:43:48.580 I'm going to do it.

00:43:49.580 Get off me. 0.85

00:43:50.360 Get off me. 0.85

00:43:54.820 Bye.

00:43:55.460 Bye.

00:43:57.100 Bye.

00:43:57.440 Bye.

00:43:57.700 Bye.

00:43:58.040 Bye.

00:43:58.480 Bye.

00:44:01.440 Bye.

00:44:09.980 Bye.

00:44:10.340 Bye.

00:44:10.640 Bye.

00:44:11.500 Bye.

00:44:12.600 Bye.

00:44:17.600 Bye.

00:44:18.000 Bye.

Based Camp - November 13, 2025

Men Give Up On Women & Start Families On Their Own： The Internet Gets Big Mad

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