In this episode, Simone and I discuss a new phenomenon that scientists are discovering: Communal Narcissism. This is a new form of narcissism that is emerging in the leftist community, and it is making waves in the social media world.
00:14:23.380Like you understand this as you're, as you're protesting for us.
00:14:27.280Like we're not shy about what we do to gay people.
00:14:30.960We're not shy that we want this to be illegal, you know?
00:14:34.280And I, I find this very like weird, the level of like cognitive disconnect and inability to see through the wider cultural milieu, I guess.
00:14:46.080Totalitarian movements thrive by manufacturing consent.
00:14:50.400Ordinary people are forced to cooperate with permission structures designed by elites with power and authority.
00:14:57.000As consequence, they come to believe things that they would not otherwise have entertained.
00:15:01.440Allowing men to compete against women in women's sports, approving sex changes for minors, opening borders to unvetted illegal immigrants, defunding the police, and decriminalizing crime.
00:15:11.840Radicalized, radical changes in policy are facilitated by media and institutional narratives that provide scaffolding for fast shifting beliefs.
00:15:21.120That is also interesting how quickly the progressive beliefs have shifted.
00:15:24.600Like the ban on police thing, like came out of nowhere.
00:15:28.120Like that would have been considered some weirdo fantasy, I think like five years ago.
00:15:38.940It was like, okay, now we're for banning.
00:15:40.960But I'm still so not clear on like who, who actually wants this.
00:15:44.120Because it, it seems like this wasn't exactly a black community thing because so many black communities know what they're less than whites do.
00:15:52.840Like black voters work with less than white voters.
00:15:55.480So it's not, it's, it's the Karenopoly.
00:16:07.620Well, women are more, they're more sensitive to social cues and they're more conformist, which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective because women are more dependent on their community support networks to survive because they spend, assuming they're reproducing a non-trivial portion of their lives.
00:16:25.100And women get way more genetic benefit from striving to be average than men.
00:16:32.060In that if women strive for the safe average option, so long as a woman survives broadly, she's likely going to do genetically okay because she's likely going to be able to find a partner if she wants one and have kids.
00:16:45.800Whereas for men, I mean, this is because historically a lot of women, what were like multiple women to a partner or something.
00:22:31.600Even people like Lex Friedman do this where they're like, well, what about love?
00:22:35.100They just seem to think that bringing up love or acting like we have to talk about love or that love justifies things makes them look morally good or sophisticated.
00:22:46.600And unfortunately now I need to bring this up whenever Lex Friedman comes up because I do feel that he is intentionally misleading about this.
00:22:53.480Lex Friedman is not a professor at MIT.
00:22:55.440He has taught classes, night classes, off-season at MIT, which I have done at Stanford and Harvard.
00:23:05.900Well, I really only did it fully at Stanford and Harvard.
00:23:34.540If you're going to brand yourself as this like big intellectual, I don't mind.
00:23:39.180Because like there's other intellectuals.
00:23:40.560I don't effing know where they went to college, but I still find their work interesting.
00:23:44.760Like, for example, I've never thought about where Short Fat Otaku went to college or his affiliations was any sort of intellectual institution.
00:23:53.640And yet for a long time, I really liked his work.
00:23:56.460Recently, you know, you can watch our video on why it matters to take a side, like why fence sitting isn't good.
00:24:05.100We think he's gone too far into the fence sitting place that it has corrupted some of his logic on issues in an effort to be a fence sitter.
00:24:14.780Because some people define fence sitting as like morally good.
00:24:27.320But the point I'm making is like, I don't care where a person, a lot of people, like Catgirl Kulag, I love.
00:24:32.600But yeah, Catgirl Kulag does really good intellectual stuff.
00:24:36.680And I've never thought to ask, you know, what is this person's affiliation?
00:24:39.800But Lex Friedman leads with this MIT connection.
00:24:42.460Well, and also like there are people out there, major, typically conservative intellectuals, who actually have really impressive credentials, but don't share their real name or their face or their credentials.
00:25:08.800I mean, I think that you see this repeatedly is that gets me, right?
00:25:15.080Like, and I am willing to say this because, you know, we've met Lex Friedman and he never responded to my text about doing his show sometime.
00:25:25.040And I've been, I've been on Piers Morgan, okay?
00:25:49.800But I think hiding behind anything, be it love or be it I'm on the winning side, I'm on the good side, I'm with the church, I'm with this political party, I'm with this university.
00:26:00.420Like, falling back on any of those, and this is one reason why we also don't really like referencing philosophers, and that's maybe the thing I like least about this Aporia article.
00:26:10.880And I know you're saying, like, oh, this Nietzschean philosophy is solid.
00:26:13.860Maybe it is, but leaning back on these people instead of articulating concepts using plain English is another way of hiding behind something without making your point and owning it personally.
00:26:26.840Yeah, well, I mean, even the writer of this article, I'm struggling to tell from the context if they support this love sentiment, because the next thing they say is, such wisdom offers an antidote to the communal narcissism of today's left.
00:26:39.560Authentic compassion rooted in universal truth.
00:26:42.700Western civilization must return to these values.
00:26:45.540Duty, honor, rationality, and openness to debate.
00:26:48.400Now, those are some values I can get behind.
00:26:50.460I need to do the Starship Troopers thing.
00:30:16.560And I think that it's uniquely challenging within a modern context,
00:30:19.540but I think that they're likely going to be better off of finding a way to just make sure that their kids know who they need to be obedient to,
00:30:25.880which is God and the church, rather than trying to build something.
00:30:30.920Because, like, you look at our kids, right?
00:30:32.840They're not, like, their disobedience and intentional sort of trolly predilection is very obviously in a large part genetic.
00:30:44.360If you don't have that fire already lit, you're going to be easier trying to protect what you do have in your kids.
00:30:51.400Which is, you know, when you talk about the video, if you parent like Jordan Peterson, your kids are going to be sims.
00:30:56.500But I admit that, like, his parenting model may work for people who have co-evolved with obedient, optimized cultural frameworks.
00:31:06.920You know, sitting the kid down and attempting to break their will may work for kids who, like, biologically have very weak wills and just really want something to follow.
00:31:15.800Whereas our kids, oh my God, they, even, even, like, the youngest ones, they will look at us and, and be like, I'll be like, hey, Titan, you might knock that bowl off the table right now.
00:31:31.980And then she'll, like, start pushing the bowl.
00:31:34.560And I'm like, Titan, if you do that, I'm going to come over there and bop you.
00:31:39.340And then she'll, like, get a big smile and knock the bowl off the table.
00:31:42.820And then I have to go over and bop her.
00:31:45.400And then she'll, she'll, like, whine for, like, 30 seconds and then go back to whatever she was doing.
00:31:50.740But I think a lot of people, maybe this is why people don't understand why we have to do bops with our family structure.
00:31:55.620Is it just, the kids don't care, you know, otherwise.
00:31:59.260Usually, usually if there's a threat of bops, the kids won't do it.
00:32:01.880But very frequently there's this with the kids and you know it, it's just like the cat.
00:32:06.040That's like, even my little infant, I can be like, hey, don't do this.
00:32:10.680And it's clear that she understands no now.
00:33:23.880And then slow motion moves the bowl so it's over the edge and slowly spills it out exactly where it had fallen before, before giving it to me and just starts laughing.
00:33:38.580And obviously at that age, there's no way we could have taught her this behavior at that young of an age.
00:33:44.860But and this is why people can be like, well, why do you even punish them if you like, you know, this is genetic or whatever.
00:33:49.400And it's like, look, breaking the rules isn't any fun if the rules aren't even enforced.
00:33:54.860People with these inclinations like frameworks to break because what they're trying to do is figure out where the boundaries of the rule system are.
00:34:58.640Because this kind of communal narcissism, as it's described, hurts communities, doesn't it?
00:35:05.240Or do you think there's some kind of technical benefit to this?
00:35:08.780I mean, you were saying it's what makes.
00:35:11.520I think you're thinking about it wrong.
00:35:13.260I think that it's probably mostly genetic who is susceptible to this.
00:35:20.120And I think that these individuals should just be thought of as like, because it's created specifically by being both narcissistic and non-agentic.
00:35:29.340And being non-agentic basically, in my mind, makes you an NPC.
00:35:33.680And so you should think of these people as like random NPCs that are spammed into the environment and are just always going to follow whatever the dominant cultural group is in this really predictable way.
00:35:43.260And you just need to think about them as people to navigate around, not like actual players in society.
00:35:50.060I know, but in terms of like, okay, if we were, there are all these conversations about how do we get the left to win back young men?
00:35:59.420How do we get the left to win elections again?
00:36:02.000How do we root out the gerontocracy running it?
00:36:06.300Should there also be a conversation if the left wants to win more about rooting this out?
00:36:12.120Or does this army of Karens help the left in some way?
00:36:20.760They've caused a lot of their problems, but they also help them maintain sort of their internal, not cohesion, but conformity.
00:36:29.900Now, this internal conformity is what has turned a lot of people away from them.
00:36:33.000But it's also what turned people away from the right as well.
00:36:35.600Any group that ends up courting these individuals, this is actually a good point, ultimately ends up failing because these individuals make the agentic people in society angry.
00:36:46.700Like if nothing is more agentic than just shut up and follow the rules, stop trying to think for yourself.
00:36:52.060And that's what the Christian Karens used to do in the 80s and the 70s, right?
00:36:56.420And I think that that drove a lot of the agentic people.
00:36:59.500That's why the tech bros of that time period were all progressives.
00:37:03.480And today, you know, the competent tech bros are moving more and more to the right because they're being pushed out by this group.
00:37:09.880And so the question is maybe just if you're a culture, build that culture in a way where it never accepts this level of sycophancy.
00:37:17.020And this is why we internally build things like Lemon Week, which we do for our kids, where every year is a holiday.
00:37:23.900You have to find something that offends you and spend a week learning to steel man it because we see offense as a sign that something threatens your wider ideology by being potentially credibly true.
00:37:59.300I mean when an individual on the right goes out and thinks they're going to look good by signaling something that shows, you know, very little actual thought has been put into it, which we often see like, you know,
00:38:14.140Oh, I'm the most right wing because I say we should ban gay people.
00:38:18.000And I'm like, well, how does this help anyone, right?
00:38:22.080Like, if you're – if you think that being gay is okay enough that you're going to get married to another guy, you obviously don't hold the beliefs that you hold.
00:38:35.460So you're not like helping them get into heaven or something.
00:38:38.640You know, so – and you can watch our video.
00:38:41.600You can say like, well, maybe it leads to like broader societal degradation.
00:38:45.140Our video, Do Gays Destroy Civilization, where we went over this in detail looking at historic examples and it doesn't seem to.
00:38:51.200It appears that in many cases it was actually the leading into societal collapse that you had stricter sexual norms.
00:38:59.180A good example of this is the Romans, where they were looser before their golden age than at the height of their golden age or during their decline.
00:39:09.800So, you know, I think a lot of people just have this like vague memory of like, well, the Greeks and the Romans at some point in their history allowed for gay people.
00:39:17.480Therefore, before the decline, it's like, well, no, you should look at – because they also had an assent, right?
00:39:22.780And so I think that there's just like no logical reason to really be going out and pushing for this.
00:39:28.020And yet people push for it and it wouldn't even win.
00:39:31.260It wouldn't even win if only conservatives were voting, if you look at like modern conservative beliefs in the United States.
00:39:35.980It's just like an aesthetic belief that people, I think, push as part of dominance hierarchy fights or to affirm – because they think that like being conservative is like tough and cool in some way.
00:39:53.480And I think calling these people out – we should have like a word for this.
00:39:57.760Like calling these people out as like lame, like what is this?
00:40:03.860I think it's sort of like stop masturbating in public is what you should say.
00:40:09.040Like because that's what they're doing.
00:40:10.080They're just trying to masturbate sort of this position in a pecking order instead of creating a real argument that would do anything to help the whiter party.
00:40:22.200Can people recognize this in themselves?
00:40:24.620Like how would someone even realize it?
00:40:26.680Or is this – I mean I guess do narcissists even know they're narcissists?
00:40:30.160I mean I think – can you see it in yourself?
00:40:36.200I mean I think the question is do you – like if somebody said, hey, spend a week seriously engaging with every idea that you find offensive as if it was serious and probably true, this is the best way to find this out about yourself.
00:40:51.480And I think the number of things that you find too offensive to engage with is a sign of whether or not you are a person like this.
00:41:00.060If the term – like that is too offensive to seriously engage with, it probably applies to –
00:42:31.260We're going to find out from the people who show up and blast people over the weekend.
00:42:35.040But huge thanks to those who support us on Patreon.
00:42:37.980And if you're interested in supporting the podcast and hanging out with us occasionally, and soon we're going to start releasing exclusive episodes on the platform, check it out.
00:43:21.140And then, you know, the rest, like we try to throw in some, you know, oh, like history, oh, prenatalism, and it just doesn't perform really as well.
00:43:27.920But we don't want to end up in just a silo like that because then that's going to be boring, even if you do like that stuff.
00:43:35.080Yeah, and people can be like, oh, well, this is a sign of your audience.
00:43:38.260I'm sorry, I actually – I'm friends with some progressive influencers, and they're like, yeah, it's the exact same for me.
00:43:48.240I don't know if I can tell you who it is who said this, but yeah, it's an influencer who our audience almost certainly knows, and they've said, yeah.