Based Camp - Oh no! Anything but Chastity! (4B Movement Hits the States)

00:00:00.000 Hello Simone! I am excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to do a deep dive both

00:00:06.480 on the formation of the 4B movement, its move to the United States, but also being Basecamp I wanted

00:00:12.880 to take a unique perspective on this movement. And I think it reveals something that a lot of

00:00:18.960 people are not picking up. You have to have 4Bs. Rods, blood, and bullets. That's what it takes.

00:00:27.360 So for those who are not clear, what the 4B movement is, is a movement away from having sex 0.89

00:00:34.560 with men, marrying men, or having kids. Don't even get me started about this whole rights thing. 0.99

00:00:39.920 What have we come to if you can't demand sexual favors from the people in your employ?

00:00:44.160 We'll go into specifics in a bit, but that's the gist of it. Women who feel from a feminist and 1.00

00:00:49.760 far-left perspective done with men are moving towards a lifestyle of increased chastity.

00:00:57.920 Now, as you can imagine, and as we will go over in this, many conservatives are like,

00:01:02.960 yeah, this is what we always wanted you to do. But I think that they are missing something

00:01:08.400 fundamental that's happening here, which is the 4B movement, as well as other movements within the

00:01:15.840 progressive cause now, are almost a laundered conservative movement that is intentionally

00:01:23.840 and not accidentally traditionalist.

00:01:28.800 So it really hit home this weekend when we were meeting with a bunch of people from the Heritage

00:01:33.200 Foundation and a bunch of Washington conservatives, and a lot of them like pushing ideas like banning

00:01:38.640 pornography, which is very popular among groups like the 4B movement.

00:01:43.360 The 4B movement is actually in Korea known as a very turfy movement. It's a very anti-trans movement,

00:01:49.360 which we'll get to, which I think would surprise a lot of people. They're like, wait,

00:01:52.640 it's an anti-trans movement. It's like, yeah, it's an anti-trans movement.

00:01:54.640 So they're anti-trans. They're pro-chastity. They believe that a man is born a man and a woman is

00:02:01.920 born a woman, and there's only two genders. They are against pornography, and they have a very

00:02:08.880 traditional role of a woman's value to society. So fundamentally, what is the 4B movement, but a 1.00

00:02:15.120 movement that says my core value, like if I wanted to put pressure on society, the core way I would do

00:02:21.200 that is by limiting sexual access to myself. And it also frames sexuality as something that men want

00:02:30.080 from women and that it is women to distribute. It's not like women want sex and men want sex. 0.97

00:02:37.200 It is a very, very traditional view of sexuality, which is sexuality and sex is something women 0.90

00:02:42.960 fundamentally don't want or don't want that much. And they can manipulate their husbands or society 1.00

00:02:50.160 by trickling it out. And I think that what we're seeing here is as the Democratic Party,

00:02:56.160 and you can see this in the statistics, is especially in places like Korea, right? Where

00:03:00.080 well, it's not the Democratic Party, I think it's separate in Korea, but you see women going far 1.00

00:03:03.600 one way in voting patterns and men going far another way in voting patterns. As the parties increasingly

00:03:08.800 become a male party and a female party, it only makes sense that a traditionalist conservative

00:03:19.440 female agenda faction would form within the progressive party. And I think that's what we're 0.99

00:03:26.640 beginning to see the rumblings of with the 4B movement. Hmm. I may not agree, but I will share my 1.00

00:03:33.280 opinions as you show yours. No, I want to hear your counters this.

00:03:39.520 I've watched a bunch of 4B content, especially American commentary after Trump was elected when

00:03:45.440 there was a surge in 4B interest in the United States. And when it comes down to it, in the end,

00:03:52.080 I think this is ultimately just another iteration of women tearing other women down to create a more 1.00

00:03:59.200 competitive market for themselves. To say, yeah, you know, shave your hair, don't wear makeup,

00:04:05.280 swear off men. Wait, do you actually believe, like, I could see this hypothetically being a thing,

00:04:10.560 but when I try to model the women who are doing things like shaving their heads, or the women who 1.00

00:04:15.280 are cheering them on, I don't think that they actively see these women as sexual competition.

00:04:19.120 It's not conscious, but it's something that happens anyway. If you have a bunch of women sitting 1.00

00:04:26.640 around, and they're all like, oh, my thighs are so fat. I'm so ugly. Everyone just kind of talks 0.99

00:04:33.040 themselves down. And then everyone's like, no, you're beautiful like you are. You should not wear

00:04:36.400 any makeup. And you're being nice. But also, it wouldn't be terrible if they didn't take that much

00:04:44.560 character. Have you ever caught yourself intentionally engaging in that behavior?

00:04:48.640 I just am on autopilot. I'm on autorespond. I'm always just going to say whatever creates the most

00:04:53.280 social harmony and niceness. But I just get that impression low key. And there's a lot going on with

00:05:01.760 the commentary in this movement. But in the end, when you look at research on female interaction,

00:05:08.880 and what not words say, but what actions demonstrate, women subtly pull each other down 1.00

00:05:14.960 all the time. Like that study with haircuts, and more attractive women getting more hair cut off. 0.99

00:05:21.280 This just feels like a market correction among women. 1.00

00:05:24.080 Explain the study you just referenced.

00:05:25.520 Researchers had evaluated, and I might butcher this, but the gist of the study was that

00:05:33.120 women who were more attractive in this study were given shorter haircuts than they requested 1.00

00:05:40.640 by their hair stylists. And the supposition is that they were overcorrecting for these women being

00:05:48.480 too pretty and trying to essentially tear them down. And there's also some research suggesting

00:05:54.800 a little bit of discrimination against women in hiring. Cremieux actually did an interesting analysis of

00:06:01.280 this, a short one on his sub stack, suggesting that a lot of the research on attractiveness and

00:06:07.360 how people are affected is actually kludgy because the way that people are rating attractiveness is

00:06:12.080 really subjective and not perfect in many ways. In many studies, some studies are better than others.

00:06:17.040 But anyway, there is, I think, a lot of intrasexual competition among women that is very subconscious

00:06:26.000 and that the 4B's movement is definitely in part motivated by feminist interests, but for a variety of reasons.

00:06:36.640 I'm getting a lot more pick me signaling than I am getting.

00:06:40.640 But who are they signaling the pick meanness to? I mean, look, they're signaling it. And I think this is interesting.

00:06:46.960 They're signaling that they're extra hard to get, that they're extra desirable, so that when they do

00:06:53.520 hone in on a target, that target understands just how high value this woman is. She's sworn off 0.72

00:07:01.120 all men, which of course almost like makes you a virgin again, right? She's virginal again. She's

00:07:05.760 unobtainable, but she might consider you. And so it gives you an extra bargaining chip on them.

00:07:11.920 Virginity, remember, a virgin body has the morning sheen of an unopened flower 0.97

00:07:18.400 and the freshness of secret springs. It's your choice, ladies. Hold on to your glorious ripe fruit or... 1.00

00:07:29.120 Comprende? Maybe I shouldn't coach Wolf.

00:07:32.560 Jerry, if you're worried about your past, don't. This is a great opportunity to start fresh.

00:07:37.600 Even though this morning I thumbed a ride and made a little lunch money?

00:07:40.160 Jerry, I'm giving you a chance to reclaim your virginity. 1.00

00:07:43.920 What? Don't think about sex. Don't think about sex. Don't think about sex. 0.99

00:07:47.760 Hey, Jerry. 0.92

00:07:48.320 Lou! 0.99

00:07:49.040 I was wondering.

00:07:49.760 Wondering what? Hmm? If you could get me behind the dumpster, hike up my skirt and pound home? 0.92

00:07:55.200 Well, I'm a virgin now. And this is one blushing rose you are not gonna deflower. 0.98

00:08:00.480 I've actually seen this in a lot of 4B content, which is that they will be like, I am, you know,

00:08:06.560 swearing off men entirely. Unless I find a really good man who is valued and aligned with me.

00:08:11.760 Yeah, who's really good enough. Who's qualified enough. Then he might be.

00:08:15.360 Because the other issue is that... Now, I would say a huge proportion of this, again,

00:08:19.200 is women who are already voluntarily celibate, who have for 17 years not dated men,

00:08:24.480 and they're very happy that way. But they're not the ones shouting about 4B stuff from the hilltop.

00:08:29.280 I actually disagree pretty strongly here. I have noticed, and I see this in the comments section

00:08:33.840 of videos about the majority, at least within the West and the US, people who identify as 4B.

00:08:39.360 Many of them were fem cells before this. They were women who were... Now, it's not that they're 0.99

00:08:44.000 unable to find somebody to sleep with them. It's that nobody who they would qualify as good enough

00:08:48.000 for them is interested in sleeping with them. And now they can re-identify as being a reactionary,

00:08:56.080 doing what they were already doing. Yes, and there's definitely a lot of... That is a very

00:09:01.120 real faction of this movement. There's another faction that even, for example, there's a YouTube

00:09:06.160 channel, I think called Spoiled Girlies or something, that is basically Red Pal for women. 1.00

00:09:11.840 You know, it's about... How does she say it? Like, it's basically just about getting as much resources

00:09:16.560 as you can as a woman and getting that man that you want, I think. And she's done multiple videos 0.78

00:09:20.480 on the 4B's movement and appropriated it and acted as though she's a part of it. And she supports

00:09:26.000 it and this is about taking back your power. She also talks weirdly about how women hold the power 1.00

00:09:31.840 to extinguish entire ethnicities. She literally says that. I kid you not. So I will send you a link 1.00

00:09:37.600 to that. I guess she means their own ethnicity, right? Like, that's her...

00:09:41.920 She's just trying to highlight in her view the power that women have. So she's talking about how we can 1.00

00:09:51.680 end lineages by opting out. How we can literally end ethnicities by opting out. 0.94

00:09:56.640 So she's really...

00:09:57.520 What ethnicity is this woman? 1.00

00:09:59.680 She's Asian, which is... It's an extra bad look. 1.00

00:10:03.200 Well, because that's... I mean, yeah, 4B is helping to end the ethnicity of South Koreans. 1.00

00:10:08.000 You know, it's so interesting, just as a tangent here, but I found this really interesting. Is that

00:10:13.280 in the pronatalist movement, all of the Asian, like I know, Asians who are active in the pronatalist

00:10:19.280 movement, none of them have kids or are really trying to have kids. But hilariously, many of the

00:10:26.720 most famous pronatalists are married to Asian people and you wouldn't know it and have tons of kids.

00:10:32.720 But the non-Asian partner is the one who's famous, specifically here, both...

00:10:37.280 No, you don't name people.

00:10:39.200 I won't name people. But multiple of the most famous pronatalists who you definitely know of,

00:10:44.720 I'd actually say maybe like 50% of your pronatalist mental space are people who are having Asian kids

00:10:50.640 and you don't recognize it.

00:10:52.560 Because a lot of people are anonymous online, but that's okay.

00:10:56.080 I just want to point out, though, that this YouTuber is exemplif...

00:11:01.120 This YouTuber exemplifies a genre or a sub-faction of 4B that is basically pick-me's or women who 1.00

00:11:10.160 see men as resources to leverage and are using this movement as a part of that. Also, in the way that 0.76

00:11:17.360 they talk about it, in the way that you see a lot of 4B content online, especially at least from

00:11:22.000 American women, it's super not feminist. It... because it doesn't... it does not pass a Bechtel test, 1.00

00:11:30.880 right? Like a Bechtel test in a movie, I think you have to have two female characters talk for longer 1.00

00:11:37.280 than five minutes about something other than guys.

00:11:39.520 Okay.

00:11:40.160 And 4Bs, it's all about their relation to men and it's men in this and men in that, and it's just all about how

00:11:47.040 women relate to men. And what I like about MGTOW is at least a lot of the content...

00:11:54.800 It also fails like the male version of a Bechtel test, but the best MGTOW content is just about

00:12:00.320 building your own life.

00:12:01.840 Actually, this is really interesting that you mentioned this, is that the MGTOW content

00:12:06.640 doesn't masturbate, and I do think that it is masturbatory to an extent, about all of the women who 0.97

00:12:12.640 aren't going to be getting sexual access to them, whereas when women go into 4B stuff, 1.00

00:12:18.240 it is a constant, almost performative, look at how desired I am and everyone I'm turning away.

00:12:26.480 You're right, it's weirdly MGTOW content that is about women is about how terrible women are, 0.96

00:12:33.360 whereas it seems the most 4B content I see is still about me, the woman, my power, my womb, my...

00:12:41.920 And this, this theme of take back your power, what on earth? How is, how is isolating yourself

00:12:48.080 in society taking back your power? That is disempowering you.

00:12:52.000 Well, it's also going to lead to the opposite of what they want, which is that men who previously

00:12:56.560 they might have communicated their beliefs to are now just not going to be exposed to a

00:13:00.560 progressive perspective at all. Yeah, well, the other thing that's crazy, too, is this,

00:13:05.040 this concept that they have of we hold the power of life. Well, you don't, if you opt out of having

00:13:11.920 kids, it's gone. The thing that made you unique from a gender standpoint is completely carved out, 0.80

00:13:21.040 and that's another reason why I really don't think these women are taking this seriously. They plan on 1.00

00:13:28.160 getting a guy. That's not true. They plan on having kids. The ovaries removed and stuff,

00:13:32.080 like they're, they're very... No, yeah, and definitely there's, there's different sub-actions

00:13:35.040 of this. They're absolutely the women who are basically had always planned on going their own 0.99

00:13:39.840 way, and now they have a movement they can put their name to. But here's another piece of evidence

00:13:43.680 as to why I think this is more about women who plan on ending up with men anyway. Another

00:13:48.640 name for this movement that American women are giving to it is like the Lysistrata movement. 1.00

00:13:53.840 Are you familiar with Lysistrata? Did you have to read that? We're going to talk about it in detail

00:13:56.640 when I get to the data part of this. Okay, then dive into it. You want me to immediately dive

00:14:01.680 into it? Okay. Well, no, well, I can, I can talk about it, but I mean, like the context of it is

00:14:05.600 Lysistrata is a Greek comedy in which women decide to deny sex to men to try to end the Peloponnesian 0.75

00:14:14.080 War. But it's a, it's a comedy. It's a joke. And actually Lysistrata herself at one point during the 0.92

00:14:19.840 play when making the pitch an argument to, to a man as to why the war needs to end is that it is

00:14:28.080 a travesty to young Greek women that the men are off fighting battles, depriving these women of the

00:14:34.400 ability to become mothers. I just, there was never a plan. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I'll go through the

00:14:41.040 full Lysistrata here. So this was a play that was performed. If you want to go to our One

00:14:45.760 Civilization video to like contrast this with other cultures and how far behind they are 0.96

00:14:50.720 in 411 BC, it was a comic about a woman's mission to end the Peloponnesian War between the Greek

00:14:57.760 city-states by denying men and the, some examples of scenes in it that I found particularly interesting.

00:15:05.360 The magistrate then arrives with some Sicilian archers, the Athenian version of police constables.

00:15:11.520 He reflects on the nature of women, their devotion to wine, promiscuous sex, and exotic cults, 1.00

00:15:17.200 such as sabbius and Adonis. But above all, he blames men for the poor supervision of their women

00:15:24.080 folk. So basically the police comes up to settle everything down and he's like, yeah, but women, 1.00

00:15:28.960 wow, they really love getting drunk. And their MLMs and their, yeah, and their weird witchy 0.56

00:15:34.640 things is basically what he's saying. Like, and this is, this is being done 400 BC, by the way.

00:15:41.840 Then in the part that you're talking about where she explains that they should feel pity for the

00:15:47.440 young childless women who are aging at home while the men are away on their endless campaigns,

00:15:53.120 the magistrate points out that men also age. In response, she reminds him that men can marry at

00:15:59.120 any age, whereas a woman only has a short time before she is considered old. Which one, I love 1.00

00:16:04.560 that like you have this feminist, anti-feminist argument captured in this like almost half a 1.00

00:16:10.320 century or have a millennial before Christ play, which is wild here. And then the debate is continued

00:16:19.680 between the chorus of old men and the chorus of old women until Lysistrata returns to the stage

00:16:24.960 with the news that her comrades are desperate for sex and they are beginning to desert on the 0.91

00:16:30.160 silliest of pretexts. Specifically, one example woman says that she has to go home to air her fabrics

00:16:36.800 by spreading them on the bed. And in the end, Lysistrata does win and ends up ending the war.

00:16:42.320 No one needs to make, if they haven't already, a cheesy porn movie. Because the whole thing is

00:16:48.720 already basically a really bad porn content. Like, you know, what, didn't a spartan show up to the

00:16:57.040 gates with a giant boner or something? Yes, he shows up with a burden, they say, 0.72

00:17:00.880 but it's obviously a large boner, yes. Yeah, and it's just like, oh, you've banned me from sex. 0.99

00:17:06.720 And like, they're all these, like, it just, it's clearly, it just, it's a very comedic,

00:17:12.320 almost, almost pornographic play. And, but the whole thing also is such a joke. Women didn't 1.00

00:17:17.680 have rights at that time. It was just like, ha, ha, ha, wouldn't it be funny if women, it's like, 1.00

00:17:21.600 nothing about women's rights. Yes. And that's what's so annoying about people like women being 1.00

00:17:28.720 like, oh, well, this is the Lysistrata movement. Oh, like that joke play about women being idiots and 1.00

00:17:33.680 like, oh, and it'd be funny if they did this. They could never do that though because they 1.00

00:17:37.040 don't have any rights. Plus it wasn't even about women not wanting to have sex or have kids because 0.99

00:17:42.000 they did. And the whole reason they were trying to stop the war wasn't that they didn't like war,

00:17:46.400 it was that they wanted to have kids. They wanted to have more kids. Oh, like clearly this is not

00:17:51.520 a movement that's being taken seriously. It's not. Okay, maybe, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm gonna go

00:17:56.880 into the history of the movement because I want this to be the, yes, the all end all source on the

00:18:01.680 movement if you're looking for a nation. I think that the, an important part of this history,

00:18:05.040 and I hope that you highlight it too, is the, the South Korean context, because when it's,

00:18:10.160 when it's moved over to an American context, that's when I feel like the real pantomime begins.

00:18:14.000 That's when it becomes a complete joke. Well, we'll, we'll talk about why it becomes a complete

00:18:17.600 joke because it actually means something completely different when it's being done in an American

00:18:20.880 context. Yes. But we've talked about the statistic before, but it's important to reevaluate here,

00:18:25.600 which is that 79.1% of young women and 72.1% of young men want to leave Korea and 83.1% of young

00:18:34.560 women and 78.4% of young men consider Korea hell. That's 83% of women in South Korea consider their

00:18:43.280 country and life hell. In fact, they take into calling their lives hell Joseon, or that's what,

00:18:48.800 what Korea is for them. This catchphrase has become popular among Koreans in recent years to

00:18:53.920 describe their country, with a Joseon being the name of a long dead Korean kingdom. So they also

00:19:00.480 have a new term Tal Jo, a promptmento compromising leave and Joseon, which vernacularly might be

00:19:08.400 translated to escape hell. Now, in terms of this exploding was in the US, you had Google searches

00:19:15.840 for the 4B movement increased 450% following the election. Wow.

00:19:22.240 Yeah. Representing over 200,000 people searching the term. Now I had, yeah, I had started here was

00:19:27.680 talking about a little bit about the American version and then we'll get to the Korean version.

00:19:30.880 Okay. Okay.

00:19:31.760 Um, because I want to point out that this is a real thing that's happening here. So

00:19:35.600 one person was telling Newswake, Brooke Arrington, that I fear the Handmaid's Tale will become a

00:19:40.960 reality. And she did a popular video on this and you should see our Handmaid's Tale about this video,

00:19:46.400 where I do feel that part of this is sexual role play for women about how desired they are.

00:19:53.440 Taking themselves off a sexual marketplace is going to affect political outcomes and make 0.99

00:19:59.120 Trumpers like change their ways and everything like that.

00:20:02.800 Well, and it's also a great way to feel desired without facing that rejection,

00:20:07.200 because I think a lot of women, if they actually put themselves on the market, they would discover 1.00

00:20:11.600 how few people actually want them. Not just because they themselves are undesirable. And

00:20:16.960 you'll see this, like a lot of the women who are here and who are like, I'm going to take away my 1.00

00:20:20.400 beauty, like by shaving my head. And it's like, dude, you do not look that great to start with.

00:20:23.920 Not to be mean, but like, I'm just saying on a inundating, like it's very much a, you know,

00:20:29.760 the, the famous meme of like, no man whose lips have touched alcohol will touch these lips.

00:20:34.480 It was a bunch of like venomous haggadans. Well, but anyway, so like already, but this 0.97

00:20:39.440 enables them to think, well, if I had tried, if I wasn't removing myself from the market,

00:20:45.920 I would be so desired. And you see things like a quote from this woman is I plan to do as much

00:20:52.800 decentering of men as possible beyond the groundwork I have already started. This means not appealing to

00:20:58.240 the male gaze and not allowing for myself to be part of a system that directly benefits men.

00:21:03.040 So basically she's just going to stop trying and not feel bad about stopping trying.

00:21:08.080 Well, but again, my point is, this is one of the most, this is one of the most effective ways

00:21:13.200 to feel as though you are desired, or you would have been desired by, by removing the potentiality

00:21:18.800 of rejection. They can't judge you because you, you intentionally ruined yourself. Your, your crop

00:21:23.760 doesn't grow because you intentionally salted the earth. It's not because I'm a bad farmer. It's because

00:21:28.240 I salted the earth. So that's what they're doing. And they don't need to face the emotional

00:21:32.400 consequences for that, which I think, you know, I think they realize now a lot of the women doing 1.00

00:21:37.040 this are like 35 and are like, I'm not going to have kids now. And I'm like, bitch, you were not 1.00

00:21:40.800 going to have kids. You are way too old to find a husband at this point. And it is a way for them to 1.00

00:21:46.800 feel like they didn't lose the game. Yes. And that's, that's meaningful again. So they're not

00:21:52.480 in the movement for the movement. They're in the movement to feel good about themselves for some

00:21:57.600 reason. Not that we don't do that for everything, but. And as I pointed out was a conservative

00:22:01.600 reaction. So this news article goes over things like Bernadine Bluntley from Texas, who was a popular

00:22:07.760 Instagram influencer says telling women to guard their hearts, bodies, and wombs for years,

00:22:13.680 whatever causes women to come to the same conclusion is welcome to me. A lot of my

00:22:18.640 Christian conservative followers on social media are beyond thrilled to welcome the American 4B 1.00

00:22:23.520 movement because this is what we've been trying to explain to them for so long, rejecting the

00:22:28.640 sexual revolution mindset of casual sex for your own good. When God sets the rules and boundaries,

00:22:34.640 it wasn't to withhold freedom and fun from us. It was to secure protection and stability and joy.

00:22:42.000 This is the mother of six, who's 34 years old. She goes on to say, being intentional in your

00:22:47.120 dating and relationships is a game changer. Saving sex for marriage, which you kind of did weirdly,

00:22:52.560 will absolutely level up your life. Being highly selective about which man you'll have and raise

00:22:58.640 children with is crucial. And I think that this is really interesting. Mary Harrington went on a long

00:23:03.280 thing about how good this is. Actually, Christine Clark, the founder of Girl Defined, which is a

00:23:08.960 biblical woman thing. She said in response to this, who is the one getting punished here? 1.00

00:23:13.680 Okay. Anyway. Yeah. She just says, who's the one getting punished here? Basically pointing out that

00:23:18.480 women have sexual desires as well, and you're going to destroy your relationships over this. What are you 1.00

00:23:22.960 doing? But I wanted to talk about where this started in Korea, because I think that people don't

00:23:28.240 understand how insane this movement was at its beginning. And you are going to be shocked by this.

00:23:33.360 Hold on. Before you start this, I just want to make sure that some of the groundwork is laid that

00:23:39.680 the 4B movement came after a period that lasted really long, that was pretty negative toward women

00:23:46.880 in South Korea. Like astoundingly that there was still selective abortion against female babies in the

00:23:55.440 nineties. That's when you and I were kids. Okay. That is, I mean, I'm just saying the background for this

00:24:03.120 is not insane that, that women have been unliked by Korean culture. And I could see people looking

00:24:09.440 to that and being a little mad about it. So I just want to say this isn't coming.

00:24:13.520 Simone, you're going to, you're going to feel bad about those words in just a second.

00:24:16.880 All right. So it started out of something called WOMAD. This was around the period from 2017 to 2019.

00:24:25.600 WOMAD was a website for Korean women, sort of similar to Crystal Cafe in the United States, 0.65

00:24:31.840 in terms of the ideology of the website that formed after the other Korean feminist website or 1.00

00:24:40.000 female focused website, Meganalia issued a ban on the use of explicit slurs against gay men and

00:24:47.440 transgender people. So this was all of the extremist women in Korea who didn't want to be on a platform 0.98

00:24:56.080 that wouldn't let them use anti-gay and transphobic slurs. Just to give you an idea of how transphobic

00:25:02.240 the movement was to start. WOMAD users responded to discrimination in South Korea by mirroring. So

00:25:10.720 they attempted to discriminate against men actively and aggressively. And so you might be like, oh,

00:25:19.280 how bad is that? Well, for example, it's Reddit where you can upvote or downvote things. The upvote

00:25:25.760 symbol is a swastika, by the way. Oh, okay. This is very 4chan-y. They're going for it. They're going

00:25:33.520 for it. The favicon for the website is a vulva with a red dot at the center representing both period blood

00:25:41.440 and fire. Now, there have been multiple posts on the site in 2016, for example, around when this was

00:25:51.200 starting, that claimed that they had killed men with titles such as, I fed men coffee mixed with

00:25:58.640 anti-freeze liquid, end quote. And quote, I killed a man by pushing him into a reservoir, end quote.

00:26:05.440 And you might think that these are just shit posts. Yeah. Here's the problem. Do they correspond with, 1.00

00:26:15.840 they do not correspond with news or like... No, hold on. In November 19th, 2017,

00:26:22.720 a member wrote a post on the WOMAD forum claiming that she had drugged and graped an Australian boy.

00:26:29.360 She uploaded photos and videos allegedly portraying the grape. Oh. And WOMAD members

00:26:35.600 showed their support for the writer, leaving comments saying that they would pay to watch

00:26:40.320 the videos of the sexual assault. Oh. Now, a number of Korean media outlets have identified

00:26:48.560 the woman as an au pair for an Australian boy. Wait, so this was a young, it wasn't,

00:26:53.120 we're not talking like a boy because they're male, like we're talking about underage. Yeah.

00:26:57.360 Yeah. The suspect reportedly committed the assault two days into her job as an au pair. And in the

00:27:05.760 post, which was made in the Korean language, the netizen says that she had been biding her time to,

00:27:11.440 quote, have a taste of a Western boy since living in Australia, end quote. End quote.

00:27:17.520 Now, what's interesting is that while some things are said au pair, this doesn't look like she was

00:27:22.000 an au pair. She said, quote, where I work has various facilities linked together. And this includes

00:27:27.040 his residences with an outdoor pool. A cute boy kept catching my eye at the pool. And I've set my

00:27:33.440 mark on him. End quote. The suspect was arrested Monday after she posted a detailed account on a 0.78

00:27:40.000 Korean extremist misandry website of her. The post claimed that she drugged and graped her victim,

00:27:45.520 which she did by crushing up sleeping pills and included screenshots. The WOMAD members defended her,

00:27:52.960 claiming that Armin Lee was innocent and conducted an online phone raiser for her

00:27:59.360 lawyer appointment. In addition, they sent a petition to the Australian police to release Armin Lee and

00:28:05.520 protested the victim's parents. Now, they specifically what they claimed is that, quote,

00:28:12.320 Lolita is a crime. Shotokan is a member of sexual preference. So if you don't know, Lolita is when you 0.99

00:28:18.240 find underage women attractive. Shotokan is when you find underage men attractive. Wow. 0.98

00:28:22.160 So

00:28:26.720 she did this. It was proven and the forum supported her and fundraised for her and asked her to send a video.

00:28:37.920 Is this the female 4chan equivalent of 1.00

00:28:40.960 This is the 4chan equivalent of female comedians aren't funny, right? So, like, female comedians 1.00

00:28:47.680 aren't funny.

00:28:48.240 Say something funny, Wendy. We can't wait.

00:28:52.080 I'm not funny.

00:28:53.200 Hey, girls are funny, Wendy. Okay, get over it. Just do women's comedy stuff. You know, talk about 1.00

00:28:57.040 how fat you are and how you want to have sex with guys and then say my vagina a lot. 1.00

00:29:01.200 I don't feel like being funny right now. 1.00

00:29:03.120 And that's just the kind of sexist bullcrap that's going to keep you in the kitchen. Sit your ass down. 1.00

00:29:06.960 This isn't a joke, you guys. Girls are funny. 1.00

00:29:08.640 And female 4channers, when they troll, it's just 1.00

00:29:13.120 really, really 0.96

00:29:15.440 disturbing. 4chan's always been pretty accepting of women. 0.99

00:29:18.160 Yeah, well, yeah, when 4chan trolls, it's like, oh, let's let's find the flag that Shia LaBeouf has

00:29:24.560 tried to to hide. And then when

00:29:26.560 Well, no, and a lot of women 1.00

00:29:27.600 When female 4chan does it, they just 1.00

00:29:29.440 Like creepy chan and stuff like that. There's been a lot of women who've been treated with respect on 4chan if they

00:29:34.640 buy into the culture.

00:29:35.360 Well, and I'm not saying that 4chan is misogynist.

00:29:37.280 I'm just saying that 4chan codes really male.

00:29:39.200 And so even women on it are 1.00

00:29:40.480 True, but 4chan has never done anything like this.

00:29:44.160 Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It's just like female comedians aren't funny. 1.00

00:29:48.080 The female 4channers, like the female version of it, it just does really creepy bad stuff instead of fun, cool stuff. 1.00

00:29:54.000 It's just like evil, evil. 0.97

00:29:55.680 Yeah, just women just women seem to be ruining. There are just some things some areas where women just shouldn't 1.00

00:30:03.520 shouldn't play. And there are some places where men suck. I'm not saying this is, you know, it goes just one way, but 1.00

00:30:08.800 man, women know your limits. 1.00

00:30:12.000 The lady has foolishly attempted to join the conversation with a wild and dangerous opinion of her own. 0.99

00:30:17.120 What half-baked drivel. 0.98

00:30:20.320 See how the men look at her with utter contempt. 0.70

00:30:22.800 I note here that the 4B movement came out of the escape the corset movement.

00:30:34.320 Which is reasonable considering the beauty standards in South Korea.

00:30:38.640 The amount of money that the average South Korean woman spends on cosmetics and beauty treatments

00:30:43.520 annually is off the chain. I think there is a completely logical market correction.

00:30:50.160 I also think that it has nothing to do with men. And to frame the anti-corset movement or whatever

00:30:55.280 they call it, that 2016 origins backlash against dolling yourself up in South Korea has more to do with

00:31:04.800 lashing back against consumerism and also women's standards. Women wear makeup for women. They do not 1.00

00:31:10.480 wear makeup for men. They pretend that they do, but no, no, no. They wear it for female audiences. 0.97

00:31:15.760 Yeah. Well, and I think here what's really interesting is that the 4B movement in the United States is 1.00

00:31:21.200 fighting for something fundamentally different than what the 4B movement in Korea is. 0.56

00:31:24.800 So the no sex part of the Korean 4B movement is mostly because in Korea,

00:31:30.320 sex is the first stage of the funnel that leads to marriage. Not to deny men casual sex. 0.83

00:31:36.880 So if you look at rates of casual sex, around 66% of American women have casual sex. 0.97

00:31:42.560 Only 13.1% of Korean women have casual sex. It is very rare. As the one article stated, 0.89

00:31:49.440 4B's concern is primarily was rejecting the institution of marriage, says Jung,

00:31:53.840 with the other B's following naturally, quote, the inevitable result of the rejection of marriage,

00:31:59.600 end quote, says Jung. Quote, why? In a conservative society in South Korea,

00:32:04.160 dating is largely considered, especially by men, the prelude to marriage and marriage,

00:32:08.480 the prelude to childbirth. So for many who wish to remain civil and childless,

00:32:13.840 you end up not dating either, end quote. American women, in contrast, are more so calling 1.00

00:32:19.920 for the rejection of casual sexual relationships. But I find that really interesting.

00:32:26.560 And it fundamentally shows a sort of misunderstanding of the movement and what it's about by the American

00:32:33.200 audience. Well, yeah, I just, for me, the movement, the 4B, I think it's unfair to take an extremist 0.91

00:32:41.920 misinterest online forum and say that that's representative of the 4B movement.

00:32:45.680 It was the majority of the movement, Simone. I just, the 4B movement is mostly something 1.00

00:32:51.120 that was created in the Western imagination out of the types of people who went on this forum.

00:32:56.080 It never had more than I think like 4,000 members or something. It was not that big in South Korea.

00:33:00.480 Hmm. I'd also note here that it's largely been replaced in South Korea by something called the

00:33:07.040 6B4T movement, where they added a few additional things, specifically not buying products viewed as

00:33:13.680 sexist and supporting others within the movement. Whereas the T is about rejecting things like

00:33:19.840 beauty standards, hyposexualization, religion, and idol culture. So, you know, generally,

00:33:27.680 these are the people we want removing themselves from the genetic pool. Like we are obviously

00:33:31.520 benefiting from this. You can see our video on cucking and like that these people are cucking 0.94

00:33:35.360 themselves. But Simone, I wanted to hear your thoughts. Like I said, I still think that there

00:33:42.880 are, there are very South Korea specific reasons why some women would be having a backlash and why 1.00

00:33:48.000 they're, it's just, it's very complicated, but then it's being appropriated in the US by a bunch of

00:33:53.360 people seeking attention and trying to justify their existing indulgent actions and make them look

00:33:58.560 ideal, like ideologically driven. Similarly to people who argue that they aren't having children

00:34:03.440 for the environment. Now they're saying, well, I'm not having children because of four B's.

00:34:07.360 That's an excuse and it's signaling and it's not actually something that people take seriously as

00:34:11.840 is indicated by the way that it's presented. Well, I actually think that you, you capture something

00:34:16.160 really powerful here, which is to say that these individuals, largely speaking, had already removed

00:34:23.120 themselves from the gene pool. They had already removed themselves to the gene pool when they

00:34:26.560 decided to live a life of casual sex into their mid thirties. Like you're definitely not going to

00:34:31.840 end up married if you're doing that. Like I'm not personally like necessarily against casual sex

00:34:38.400 when individuals are like, let's say below the age of 25 and they're trying to, you know,

00:34:45.680 it's very hard to get partners without it in today's dating economy. I'm not saying it's the best

00:34:49.360 thing. I'm just saying that it is hard to get partners without it. So I understand the challenge

00:34:54.160 that young people are going through. But if you are having casual sex post the age of 25,

00:35:00.320 there's basically no shot. You're going to get married realistically. No shot. You're going to be part

00:35:05.440 of the next generation. No saw you're going to be, you know, and I think that these are people who

00:35:10.240 had already opted out of everything. Now they're just like adding a different flavor to what they

00:35:15.680 were already doing. And I note here back to my original thesis, because I do believe it. I think

00:35:21.280 that there is a faction of the democratic party that is becoming a traditionalist conservative faction

00:35:27.520 that is anti-sex, that is anti-porn, that is anti-trans people, that is two genders,

00:35:35.040 but that is also solidly Democrat because they want these state resources because they

00:35:40.080 don't expect to look for a husband either. And they don't want to, you know, support themselves.

00:35:44.720 So they're like, okay, who's going to support me? And I think that this faction represents

00:35:50.400 a new political entity that people are like, ha, ha, ha. They're accidentally conservative.

00:35:55.920 Where I think, no, ha, ha, ha. They're intentionally conservative,

00:35:59.760 but still Democrat. You just don't understand how much the parties have flipped.

00:36:05.040 Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and as I think we'll discuss in some future podcasts,

00:36:15.520 the nature of conservatism has changed and there are now new factions that people don't really

00:36:20.960 understand yet, but I'm just, I'm still so, I'm kind of disappointed also in this movement and the

00:36:29.680 lack of modeling the other side that is being demonstrated once again, by some kind of reactionary

00:36:34.560 movement and that women are taking back their power and thinking that this is so punishing toward men 1.00

00:36:42.160 when they're really just hurting themselves. Andrew Tate tweeted something along the lines of,

00:36:46.240 now you don't even need abortions. Like he, this doesn't hurt anyone except for them. And it's

00:36:54.000 disappointing that we have reached a point at which many people don't under, they don't have the tool

00:37:03.120 set to model what other people would be thinking or how they would react to them. They can only think

00:37:08.240 of things in terms of themselves. And we've seen this with our toddlers that they, there is this point

00:37:15.360 at which they begin to realize that there are other people who have their own perspectives and

00:37:22.080 wants and needs. And it's so exciting when they get out of that phase of everything being only in

00:37:28.160 relation to themselves and their wants, and they can't possibly understand that people might see

00:37:32.400 things differently or view them from a third party perspective. It's scary that I'm seeing TikTok videos

00:37:39.600 of people presumably in their twenties and thirties who don't seem to have gone beyond that toddler

00:37:45.920 phase, or if they ever did get there, it's, they've reverted back to this proto phase of everything

00:37:54.960 in terms of themselves. Well, I can see this on the male side in Korea as well. Are you, are you familiar

00:38:01.120 with the finger pinching conspiracy theory? Oh yes. Where they think that every time someone poses,

00:38:08.320 like there's a photo of them, they're trying to make some dig at men. Yeah. So in Korea, 0.90

00:38:13.200 it's like considered incredibly offensive to like, make this sign. Because it implies you're

00:38:18.240 a small penis, right? Yeah. If it's accidentally made in an ad or something like that, men will 1.00

00:38:22.880 actually go protest. Like men, like large groups of men will actually protest in front of like

00:38:28.640 companies because somebody in a, like a video game accidentally had this depiction being made.

00:38:35.360 They see it as an extremely offensive symbol. Like in the U S like if you accidentally put a swastika

00:38:40.160 in something, it is really interesting. I actually probably bigger than in the U S if you accidentally

00:38:44.880 put a swastika in something. Yeah. That's weird. But also, yeah, I think that is another indication of 0.75

00:38:55.200 what's going on in South Korea. They've got this whole different set of baggage that, that is now

00:39:02.240 reverberating off itself. What started the 4B movement in South Korea was the murder of a woman, 0.99

00:39:10.000 a young woman by somebody who felt that they were angry at society because women didn't want to date

00:39:14.320 them. And then when they were trialed and they were put in jail for 30 years, it's not an automatic

00:39:18.080 life sentence for murder in Korea. They were not given a jail sentence for a hate crime. And that 0.84

00:39:25.040 really pissed off a lot of women in like these forums as to why it was not considered a hate

00:39:30.640 crime. I find this pretty interesting and actually compelling for my perspective. Cause at first I was

00:39:34.560 like, yeah, that seems like a hate crime. Well, it turns out the guy had pretty severe schizophrenia

00:39:38.240 and they were like, it's obviously a mental health issue. Like, and I'm like, okay, you,

00:39:41.760 I used to work with people at schizophrenia. That was my job studying schizophrenia.

00:39:45.680 Um, and I wouldn't really hold one of them accountable for something they said that was offensive by

00:39:50.960 mainstream societal standards. I remember one of our patients killed a random person because he

00:39:55.120 thought they were a witch. Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Not very political. I mean, unless, I don't know.

00:40:01.680 It's not a hate crime in the way that they mean hate crime. It's like, yeah, there's hate,

00:40:05.840 but it's, it's crazy hate. So it's crazy hate. It's not like a logical hate.

00:40:14.240 Anyway, love you to Desdemone. Are you going to go 4B on me? Are you gonna

00:40:17.600 I, I, if I make some kind of rebellion someday, I, it's going to have to be a lot smarter than that.

00:40:28.240 And I'm not the brightest bulb in the bucket, but I'm not going to, this was just such a self-owned

00:40:37.040 and it, have you started making Malcolm type mixed metaphors in the bucket?

00:40:42.480 I really love your mixed metaphors. I'm just trying to, trying to like, make it a family thing.

00:40:47.520 You know, this is a Collins way of speaking. We have to have our weird cult speak. Right. So.

00:40:54.080 Right. Part of it.

00:40:55.520 What's even the point of being in a cult if you don't have your weird way of talking?

00:40:59.040 Yeah. Then how do they know that you're in a cult aside from the clothing and

00:41:02.240 everything else that's weird about us?

00:41:04.240 I really had to find out more about this Romanian thing that you told me. So apparently our podcast is

00:41:08.960 the seventh most popular podcast in Romania by some statistics, at least English language podcast.

00:41:15.600 And I want to figure out what's going on there. Like why?

00:41:18.480 So if you're in Romania, please tell us why you're watching, but we're really glad that you're here.

00:41:22.960 Yeah. I've noticed we do have an unusually large user base in South Eastern Europe,

00:41:26.640 which is interesting. Part of me wonders that maybe like Russian bots have accidentally been promoting us.

00:41:31.520 I don't know. Have we said that many pro Russia things?

00:41:36.560 No, we're pretty anti Russia. So to the extent where I feel a little bad about it, you know, like

00:41:42.480 the only group we're probably more anti than anti Russia on this podcast is Catholic.

00:41:46.800 And like, those are like the two things we're probably known for is like having a bias.

00:41:52.240 No, we don't actually have a real bias against these groups. Like I like Russians and everything

00:41:56.320 like that. But they're the two groups that I like joke about the most because in terms of like

00:42:00.800 opposing sports teams, they're like the two clearest opposing sports teams to our particular

00:42:06.640 product and American faction right now.

00:42:09.840 Well, your kids are part Russian, so you better be okay with that. 1.00

00:42:13.520 Yeah. Simone's part Russian. So, but anyway, what am I making you for dinner?

00:42:18.720 What are you making me for dinner? I really don't know what you're planning for tonight.

00:42:21.600 I could do leftovers. I mean, I'm just going to hold on. I know what I want for dinner tonight.

00:42:29.440 Yeah. Oh, I could cut up the sausage into fried rice.

00:42:33.760 Little tiny triangles of it. No, no. Okay. I want tomato soup and girl cheese.

00:42:41.840 That is an easy stand boy. So spectacular girl cheese. We got to start going through the tomato 0.98

00:42:46.720 soup. So let's do this. All right. It's on. I'll get started. And will you pick up the kids?

00:42:53.360 Yeah, I will. All right. I love you, Malcolm. I love you too, Simone. You're a great wife.

00:42:59.440 See you soon. And you are the perfect husband and I love you and you're really pretty. And I'm glad that

00:43:05.040 I cut you first. You can't end on the nice thing. I love your voice and I love your wiggles.

00:43:12.880 And I love this strange sound that you make when you're falling asleep. That sounds like

00:43:16.400 a surfacing whale. You go. I don't know why you do it, but it's so cute. I just love you. I just

00:43:23.200 love you. It's so annoying. My favorite thing is the sound you make when you chew. It's so cute.

00:43:28.080 Oh my God. Why are you like this? I don't know. No, honestly, I'm not okay with this. My wife's,

00:43:35.520 my wife is gay. I need to handle this. I'm super gay for you. Yeah. What you gonna do? Anyway, 1.00

00:43:42.560 though. I love you. I'll see you downstairs. See ya. I got the Krampus costume. I had to buy a

00:43:49.520 different hat than the one I wanted, a different face than the one I wanted because the one I

00:43:53.200 wanted wasn't gonna arrive till after Christmas. But the one I ended up getting is even more goat-like

00:43:57.280 and elaborate, so. As long as it's goat-like, that's kind of the rule. Oh, it's very goat-like.

00:44:01.920 Is Krampus outside of the dark? Krampus outside in the dark? I think so.

00:44:08.000 And Krampus has huge claws. It even has a mask on it. Really? Yeah, huge claws in his scary face.

00:44:18.880 Yeah. Well, I'm very proud of you for going and looking at Krampus. Do you think he was like

00:44:24.880 a mystery? Were you trying to solve him like a mystery monster? Yeah. Hi.

00:44:28.960 Hi. I think it's Krampus, Mommy. You think it's Krampus? Yes, I hide under my banquet.

00:44:34.240 You're hiding under your banquets? Oh my gosh.

00:44:42.880 Guys? Daddy, Mommy. Dad's asleep. He always goes to sleep early.

00:44:47.280 I think Dad is still up in the monster costume. That's a really interesting mystery-solving

00:44:54.160 proposition, but I think it was Krampus. What are you guys up to? We're going to take a ride on it.

00:45:01.040 You're going to take a ride on it? Where are you going to go? We're going to go to Adventure City.

00:45:06.080 Let's go, Mommy. Adventure City. All right.

Based Camp - January 15, 2025

Oh no! Anything but Chastity! (4B Movement Hits the States)

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript