Based Camp - May 15, 2024


Only the Pluralistic & Technophilic Pronatalist will Survive

Topics
industry
Hosted by
Malcolm Collins Simone Collins
Mentioned
Simone Winston Churchill Louise Perry Gandhi Richard Hanania George W. Bush Elon Musk Hitler Sunny Amish Dune
The Bear vs. Man Meme is a Big Deal The Death of Woke： Stats on Declining Wokeism

Episode Stats


Length

31 minutes

Words per minute

179.21

Word count

5,730

Sentence count

339

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

22

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about why the pro-natalist, technophilic, pro-industry movement is so concerned about population decline and falling fertility rates, and why we should be worried about it. We are joined by Simone Goldstein, a sociologist, philosopher, and writer, to discuss why technology is a threat to our cultural and economic well-being.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 I love a lot of these technophobic groups.
00:00:01.800 I think, like Louise Perry has recently on her podcast, and she's like, I think God doesn't
00:00:04.700 want us engaging with technology.
00:00:06.000 If you take a low-tech approach, you are dooming your culture as much as the people who are
00:00:11.060 chemically castrating their children right now.
00:00:12.640 There is a reason we cling to industry.
00:00:14.620 That is what gives us our cultural autonomy and gives us an ability to survive in the
00:00:19.480 world that we're heading into, which is going to be much more aggressive, interculturally 1.00
00:00:24.620 speaking, than the world we're in today.
00:00:26.840 If you do something as simple as just say, okay, all computers, all internet is fine,
00:00:31.220 just no AI, right?
00:00:33.660 You are at such an enormous, both military and economic disadvantage.
00:00:39.720 The urban monoculture has been good for many of these groups in one ways, and that they
00:00:43.240 have imposed a sort of detente on our society.
00:00:46.340 You, if you're living in the developed world, generally do not have to worry about people
00:00:51.420 of other cultural groups coming and sterilizing you or killing you. 0.80
00:00:55.020 That will not be the case when the urban monoculture falls.
00:00:59.300 It's existential that you're pluralistic.
00:01:01.320 If you are not a group that has a chance at a play for the dominant culture in the earth,
00:01:07.480 for example, suppose you're a Catholic right now.
00:01:09.600 If they try to take the, we will turn everywhere we live into the Catholic caliphate mindset, 1.00
00:01:14.960 and we will kick out the non-Catholics, then any region where Catholics are not the dominant 0.99
00:01:20.240 population, they are now a threat to all of the other populations. 0.98
00:01:23.460 If you get one or two Catholic caliphates set up, now all Catholics become a problem. 1.00
00:01:29.160 This is why this is such a dangerous pathway.
00:01:32.300 Would you like to know more?
00:01:33.620 Hello, Simone! 1.00
00:01:34.560 It's exciting to be talking to you today.
00:01:36.480 Today, we are going to be addressing why we have so ardently sided with the technophilic
00:01:46.340 pro-industry side of the pro-natalist movement.
00:01:50.120 Because if you look at the wider landscape of the pro-natalist movement, there are broadly
00:01:55.740 two solutions.
00:01:56.680 One is to say, if society isn't working right now, like with all the changes we've had,
00:02:02.320 let's go back to a time when it did work.
00:02:04.580 The other solution is ours is to say, let's take elements from a time that did work.
00:02:08.940 Let's riff on that, but let's adapt them to be pro-technology and pro-industry so we as
00:02:16.960 a species can keep developing in the direction we're developing today.
00:02:20.880 And this is, I think to a lot of people, we wrote a piece in Emporia about why we chose
00:02:26.600 to build a religion for our family.
00:02:28.900 And one of the most common complaints was, why do you need to engage with industry?
00:02:34.220 And I think that there is the misinterpretation that for us, this is aesthetic, that we are
00:02:41.360 engaging because we just personally like industry, or we're just generally pro-science people,
00:02:47.660 or we believe in a future that's pro-science.
00:02:50.580 And that is not why.
00:02:53.680 Literally, any other approach is pointless.
00:02:58.320 Everyone who doesn't take this path has no real freedom or real cultural security.
00:03:08.380 So do you want to go further before I explain why, Simone, or?
00:03:11.860 Go into it.
00:03:14.400 The point being is if you, any group really only has cultural autonomy, i.e. are able to
00:03:22.780 practice their own cultural beliefs and pass those beliefs onto their kids.
00:03:25.980 In so far as nearby groups that are higher industry or higher technophilia, allow them
00:03:33.900 to.
00:03:34.720 The Amish and the Haridi are two very high fertility populations.
00:03:40.000 But both of these populations are incredibly low industry, incredibly low productivity, and
00:03:44.960 incredibly low science engagement.
00:03:47.000 And when I say science engagement, pushing science forwards.
00:03:49.460 It's stuff like the Haridi that like, I have a broad understanding of science. 1.00
00:03:52.320 They're not as like poo-poo as the Amish, but they're not particle physicists or working 1.00
00:03:56.220 on new types of computers and stuff like that, or auto drones and stuff.
00:04:00.780 This matters because these two groups are only really able to have cultural autonomy in so
00:04:07.980 far as they are in the good graces of their higher technophilia, higher industry neighbors.
00:04:13.940 This is the topic we have talked about before, and I wanted to do a full episode on it because
00:04:18.280 it's important to ultra freaking highlight here.
00:04:23.800 Okay?
00:04:25.060 Ultra, ultra highlight.
00:04:26.880 If the way that you are maintaining intergenerationally high fertility rates is from disengaging with
00:04:34.600 technology in a way that makes you less industrially productive than your neighbors, you do not
00:04:40.340 actually have cultural autonomy.
00:04:43.780 And people can say, yeah, but what if we all just agree to go this way?
00:04:47.420 And it's like, yeah, but we don't live in that world.
00:04:49.180 In other countries, there are going to be solutions to falling fertility rates that allow for technology
00:04:56.480 engagement and industry, but that also strip away things that we would see as existential.
00:05:03.680 For example, China might move towards forced inseminations, or some fascist country will,
00:05:08.020 and that will work to keep their fertility rate high and won't involve, oh, nobody engages
00:05:13.280 with a computer anymore.
00:05:14.640 Nobody engages with an AI anymore.
00:05:16.880 Some companies will likely begin to breed their own workers.
00:05:19.480 We've talked about this before.
00:05:20.540 When that becomes a major issue, you're going to have companies breeding them, likely without
00:05:23.280 certain proteins, so that the workers are permanently indebted to the company.
00:05:26.780 You have gone with a traditionalist religious approach, and that's how you got through that.
00:05:30.820 And that approach included disengagement with modern technology.
00:05:34.580 You are going to be stomped by these individuals, or at least have to live in a world under their
00:05:42.500 rules.
00:05:43.440 And I do not want my kids living under a world of totalitarian fascist rules.
00:05:48.580 And if people are like, come on, how could they really impose on us?
00:05:51.300 I'm sorry.
00:05:51.640 We live in a world where today, industry means better guns.
00:05:55.240 In the future, it's going to mean better Terminator robots.
00:05:58.260 The AIs we see today, you think somebody's not going to be putting those in robots and
00:06:02.940 giving them guns, especially if they're fascist-inclined?
00:06:06.180 Don't kid yourself, Sunny.
00:06:08.160 Well, I think the problem is that right now, there are many groups that are able to
00:06:14.540 exist with a false sense of security, because there are currently, in many places in the
00:06:20.420 world, governments that allow different groups to basically be exempt from military service
00:06:26.200 and taxes and even having to work while maintaining their cultural autonomy.
00:06:31.860 And these groups can also, and there's this impression that one, we're allowed to do this
00:06:36.740 and it's working now and it's fine.
00:06:38.680 And two, we have way higher birth rates than the main culture.
00:06:42.420 So we're just going to be giant.
00:06:44.420 And I think there's just this lack of awareness or people are conveniently forgetting that it is
00:06:50.640 these governments that are low fertility, that are currently bankrolling and also actively
00:06:56.100 protecting the rights of these groups.
00:06:58.840 And that as soon as those groups do inevitably disappear, there will be no such protections
00:07:04.380 and there will be no such bankrolling and you're going to need to find a different solution.
00:07:09.720 So I think that's another really important point.
00:07:12.340 You pointed out quite controversially something that Richard Hanania tweeted about recently,
00:07:16.160 which is that Hamas does have a plan, did have a plan when invading or attacking on October
00:07:22.040 7th for Israel.
00:07:23.400 And the plan was not to completely get rid of all the Jews in Israel, but rather basically
00:07:29.120 keep some on like a farming basis to have them continue to make money and hold up their
00:07:33.400 lifestyle.
00:07:34.620 And you really wanted to take the most like technologically competent and essentially enslave
00:07:38.600 them.
00:07:39.380 Yes.
00:07:39.740 And I think quite frankly, that's the only option, like that they are the most aware of the
00:07:44.660 actual dynamic at play of groups that are currently doing their own thing, but that also understand
00:07:51.420 that they want to be parasitic within a larger ecosystem.
00:07:54.980 There are many other groups that are just, I guess, burying their heads in the sand or not
00:08:01.800 thinking at all about the longer term implications of what's going on.
00:08:05.780 And this even includes, to a certain extent, the ultra-Orthodox in Israel who are not serving
00:08:12.380 in the military, who are not contributing economically in the same way to Israel as a
00:08:19.420 nation, they also are going to be, if they don't somehow manage to capture and enslave 0.99
00:08:24.640 the productive Jews in Israel, going to run out of government support and going to run out of
00:08:29.560 protection when the lower fertility but higher productivity group disappears.
00:08:34.900 Keep in mind, like when people stop sending them aid money, the people sending them aid money are
00:08:38.780 these incredibly low fertility groups that control a lot of the West government today. 0.53
00:08:42.780 When they disappear, a lot of these individuals are going to lose the cash flows that are going
00:08:46.780 into their countries and they're going to be starving to death in mass and they will be 0.98
00:08:51.380 attacking their neighbors.
00:08:52.680 A point that you made that I just cannot highlight enough is I think that you are overly focusing
00:08:57.740 this on the extremist cases like the Haridi and stuff like that, where I'm talking about it in
00:09:02.920 cases like the Tradcast who thinks that they can get away without their kids learning to use
00:09:07.560 computers or AI.
00:09:08.940 If you do something as simple as just say, okay, all computers, all internet is fine, just
00:09:13.160 no AI, right?
00:09:15.520 You are at such an enormous, both military and economic disadvantage.
00:09:21.120 And what you point out here is that we have lived under a society, the urban monoculture has
00:09:26.600 been good for many of these groups in one ways and that they have imposed a sort of detente
00:09:30.200 on our society.
00:09:31.540 You, if you're living in the developed world, generally do not have to worry about people
00:09:36.740 of other cultural groups coming and sterilizing you or killing you. 0.80
00:09:40.920 That will not be the case when the urban monoculture falls.
00:09:44.640 Oh, so you're even, yeah, you're even just talking about moderate groups that are trying
00:09:48.220 to do their own thing.
00:09:50.000 Yeah.
00:09:50.380 I'm talking about groups that are like, I don't let my kids on the internet.
00:09:53.000 I don't let my, you can maintain a level of technological advancement and understanding
00:09:58.680 without your kids engaging with the internet, fine.
00:10:01.740 But if this is hampering their understanding of cutting edge technology, that is going to
00:10:10.380 be hugely deleterious to your group's ability to act autonomously into the future.
00:10:18.200 Um, yeah, a lot of it's, you can just look at this in much simpler microcosms, like kids
00:10:24.380 growing up, kids who become dependent on trust funds or their parents and who remain so throughout
00:10:30.320 their lives, ultimately have to live under the thumbs of their parents and live at the
00:10:34.060 whims of their parents.
00:10:34.880 And yes, there are some kids who actively and openly hate their parents and continue to
00:10:39.500 receive financial and emotional support from them.
00:10:41.940 Um, they're still living at the whims of those parents.
00:10:46.820 And if those parents grow a pair or die or run out of money, they will not be able to
00:10:53.420 maintain those lifestyles.
00:10:54.940 And we all understand that dynamic.
00:10:56.920 We just don't seem to understand it on a cultural level.
00:10:59.600 But I think something that is not clear to these groups is that again, they've gotten so used
00:11:04.380 to the detente that's been enforced by the urban monoculture that they don't see that pretty
00:11:10.220 much everyone who makes it through the fertility crucible is going to be much more culturally
00:11:16.820 centric than groups have historically been, with us probably being the most pluralistic
00:11:22.980 faction I can imagine realistically making it through.
00:11:25.440 Yeah, because the data shows that most other high fertility groups are going to be much more
00:11:29.860 suspicious and intolerant toward outgroups, meaning that you're going to have only us
00:11:37.200 pretty much trying to protect your rights to cultural autonomy.
00:11:41.580 The interesting thing is all pluralistic groups in making it through the crucible, like
00:11:45.580 people are like, why would you think all of the pluralistic groups would unite with your
00:11:50.040 group?
00:11:50.460 It's not that they're uniting with my group, but there just is an intrinsic reason for all
00:11:54.500 pluralistic groups to work together.
00:11:56.140 If pluralism is one of a group's values, then they can easily ally with every other group
00:12:04.280 attempting to make it through the crucible that have pluralism as one of their value systems.
00:12:09.040 That is why you choose pluralism.
00:12:11.120 That's another thing.
00:12:11.640 People are like, why are you pluralistic?
00:12:12.980 It's existential that you're pluralistic if you are not a group that has a chance at a play for the
00:12:19.120 dominant culture in the earth, or at least in your local region.
00:12:22.580 For example, you don't need to be pluralistic if you are some groups of Muslim, some groups of
00:12:28.060 Christian, but pretty much everyone else has to attempt the pluralism pathway, or you're going to be
00:12:33.280 quickly stopped.
00:12:34.460 By that, what I mean is, suppose even you're a Catholic right now, Catholic fertility rates are 0.51
00:12:38.640 absolutely crashing, conversion rates to Catholicism, it is the other way.
00:12:42.440 They are experiencing massive outflows right now.
00:12:45.240 If they try to take the, we will turn everywhere we live into the Catholic caliphate mindset that 1.00
00:12:50.800 some individuals are pushing, and we will kick out the non-Catholics, it's in any region where 1.00
00:12:56.260 Catholics are not the dominant population, which is honestly a lot of places where most of the
00:13:01.120 world's Catholics live, they are now a threat to all of the other populations. 1.00
00:13:05.420 If you get one or two Catholic caliphates set up, now all Catholics become a problem. 1.00
00:13:10.440 This is why this is such a dangerous pathway, this pathway of highlandering it, as we call it.
00:13:15.940 You know, it's just true, right?
00:13:17.680 Like they see, oh, if you get enough of you, you try to take over.
00:13:20.380 The urban monoculture is blind to cultures that do this.
00:13:23.240 As soon as the urban monoculture is gone, and you have some countries that weren't historically
00:13:29.600 Muslim, essentially become majority Muslim and begin to operate under a Muslim legal system
00:13:35.660 that is not kind to the existing people.
00:13:38.520 Groups like us, while pluralistic, will understand the threat that now means.
00:13:44.200 I'm like, oh, so if you became a dominant population here, you'd do the same thing.
00:13:48.100 So if they do that anywhere, that means they will do that everywhere.
00:13:52.060 Keep in mind, we're talking about same culture Muslims, and as we've said, there's a lot of
00:13:55.600 different cultures of Islam, but same culture, we can look and say, okay, do you have cultural
00:13:59.960 similarities with this group when they were in the minority, which could indicate that you'll
00:14:03.900 do the same when you're in the minority that you've done in this region.
00:14:07.080 And right now, the urban monoculture enforces the detente.
00:14:12.020 In the future, even pluralistic groups like us are going to be much more suspicious and
00:14:18.640 much more aggressive because the future is just going to be a more aggressive...
00:14:23.480 And we're super not tolerant of free riders.
00:14:25.720 You obviously were pointing to a lot of cultural examples where people are self-sustaining and
00:14:30.540 just doing their own thing.
00:14:31.640 But certainly, we wouldn't outlay any expenditure protecting maintaining infrastructure for or
00:14:38.260 otherwise supporting groups that were not actively involved in whatever ecosystems we
00:14:45.140 were trying to maintain for our own...
00:14:46.980 Oh, absolutely.
00:14:47.620 Yeah.
00:14:47.800 If they are not involved in our ecosystems, it doesn't make sense.
00:14:51.960 So we should probably explain this in plain English.
00:14:54.560 It means if we end up, if the world ends up basically carved sections of infrastructure,
00:15:01.100 power, roads, safety networks, we would not give those networks to people who are not actively
00:15:08.500 benefiting our group and our group's goals.
00:15:11.120 Which people can be like, what do you mean by that?
00:15:14.520 In society today, if you hate America, you can still use American roads.
00:15:19.180 You can still use American services.
00:15:21.880 You can still call the police.
00:15:24.020 In the future, that is part of the urban monoculture's value system, right?
00:15:30.340 In Dune, there's the famous line.
00:15:32.120 I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's something like, when you are in power, I ask
00:15:39.080 for freedom because that is according to your values.
00:15:42.240 When I am in power, I take your freedom because that is according to my values.
00:15:47.060 Yeah.
00:15:47.840 And that is...
00:15:48.920 Classic.
00:15:48.940 That is not the world that we're going to live in when the urban monoculture falls.
00:15:54.100 So there is actually like really specific reasons we cling to the two things that confuse a lot
00:16:03.260 of people who don't get it.
00:16:05.380 There is a reason we cling to pluralism.
00:16:07.780 Anyone who clings to pluralism can easily ally with everyone else who clings to pluralism,
00:16:11.840 which immediately gives you a ton of allies if you're a minority group,
00:16:15.120 which any experimental religious or cultural system is going to be.
00:16:18.660 There is a reason we cling to industry.
00:16:21.100 That is what gives us our cultural autonomy and gives us an ability to survive in the world
00:16:26.220 that we're heading into, which is going to be much more aggressive interculturally speaking
00:16:31.600 than the world we're in today.
00:16:33.560 And I would add that we're extremely sensitive to and judgmental about other people's demonstrated
00:16:41.040 industry when we think about who we're going to culturally partner with.
00:16:44.340 And there are lots of tiny dog whistles that can demonstrate whether or not someone holds
00:16:49.040 this view because it's not just from a cultural standpoint that people behave this way.
00:16:54.500 This is something that shows up in the types of businesses that they work with and invest in
00:16:58.620 and start to the way that they address their personal problems.
00:17:03.000 So, for example, Elon Musk is a very mission-driven person, right?
00:17:07.520 But he does not depend on the charity of others.
00:17:10.720 Whenever he wants to create a movement, he creates it through business.
00:17:14.240 It has to be able to be financially self-sustaining.
00:17:17.020 And whenever he does charity, it's typically to seed fund something that he himself has started
00:17:23.700 with his own hard-earned money that should be ultimately financially self-sustaining in the end.
00:17:29.380 And that is a sign of someone who is going to be culturally aligned with us in every other way
00:17:35.640 because we know that they are someone who, from first principles, will always take an approach
00:17:40.200 of industry rather than dependence.
00:17:42.480 If we meet someone and they, for example, run a nonprofit that depends on others' donations,
00:17:47.740 they may say until the cows come home that they are culturally industrious and independent.
00:17:52.360 But we know that from a philosophical standpoint, they're able to tolerate the charity of others
00:17:57.580 and depend on the teat of some other breast for their livelihood.
00:18:02.360 And as such, we cannot trust them to be a culturally aligned partner in the future, if that makes sense.
00:18:08.680 And this is actually a really interesting point that you're here.
00:18:11.640 And I think when we look at the world today and we are looking, okay, who do we want as allies?
00:18:17.500 Who do we talk with?
00:18:18.620 How do we build out this movement?
00:18:19.980 People can think because of our focus on fertility rates, what we're looking at is cultural groups,
00:18:25.660 or what we're looking for is cultural groups with large populations that can intergenerationally
00:18:30.700 motivate high fertility.
00:18:32.260 Actually, that is a pretty low thing on our list of what we're looking for.
00:18:36.980 A group could have a large population, but if they're not industrious,
00:18:39.760 then they just are not relevant in terms of long-term geopolitical power.
00:18:44.080 Yeah, their days are still numbered.
00:18:45.220 Yeah, their days are just as numbered as the urban monoculture in many ways.
00:18:49.900 It's just that once the detente of the urban monoculture falls,
00:18:53.220 they are going to be plowed by more aggressive neighbors that they haven't had to deal with in a thousand years.
00:19:00.660 But we are re-entering that world as we already see what's going on with Israel right now. 0.96
00:19:06.460 In the parts of the world that are less structured than our own,
00:19:09.520 that is going to be the reality for many of us.
00:19:12.220 But, so when we're looking, okay, who do we respect?
00:19:15.520 Who do we want to work with?
00:19:17.400 The core thing we're looking at is once a group is able to motivate,
00:19:21.640 or even plausibly motivate, above reproductive population,
00:19:25.640 what's their level of industry?
00:19:26.860 I don't care how big they are.
00:19:28.300 If they are high industry, and industry means technology as well.
00:19:32.060 Can they build an automated factory, for example?
00:19:36.240 Can they build semiconductors?
00:19:38.020 Groups that can't are just not particularly relevant to the great game in our perspective.
00:19:46.300 And I should note that within most religious traditions, there's various factions here.
00:19:50.640 There are, take Catholics, for example.
00:19:52.740 There are, like, Catholic naturalists that absolutely will not be useful in this respect.
00:19:59.160 And then there's Catholic non-naturalists that are, like, much more engaged with technology.
00:20:05.320 What is a Catholic naturalist?
00:20:06.760 This is a pretty big movement right now that you see, but, like, totally traditionalists
00:20:11.000 don't really engage with tech computers that much.
00:20:14.760 They might have the internet or something like that.
00:20:16.260 Like, Amish light, almost, you could say.
00:20:18.880 Amish, but 2010.
00:20:21.180 Super low tech.
00:20:22.000 Basically, they start, not super low tech, but they stopped at 2010 culture, 2010 tech levels.
00:20:27.240 And this is something you increasingly see.
00:20:29.040 This is a growing movement.
00:20:30.300 Oh, we won't allow human computer interface, for example.
00:20:35.440 Groups that don't allow human computer interface are just going to be out-competed by the groups
00:20:39.580 that do.
00:20:40.460 Oh, we won't build AI.
00:20:41.900 Okay, then you're not going to be able to compete with the groups that do.
00:20:45.000 Oh, we won't allow for genetic augmentation of humans.
00:20:48.820 Plausibly, you'll be able to compete if you are engaging enough with the high tech other
00:20:53.440 side of things, the AI, the human computer AI integration stuff.
00:20:57.760 Maybe you can compete, but you certainly can't compete if you're just going full naturalist.
00:21:02.220 It doesn't matter how good you are at judo or how big your muscles are or how much you
00:21:10.260 live the masculine ideal.
00:21:11.980 You cannot fight someone with a gun, okay?
00:21:15.260 And you certainly can't fight someone with 10,000, a factory that is auto-generating gun
00:21:21.940 drones that are looking for you.
00:21:24.660 You can't fight with that.
00:21:26.040 I'm reminded on views in other videos, the scene of Indiana Jones.
00:21:29.220 For people who are listening to this and they don't know what's playing whenever I do this,
00:21:43.820 it's the scene where there's a guy flailing around all the swords thinking he's super tough
00:21:48.180 and Indiana Jones just looks annoyed and shoots him.
00:21:50.580 Because you can't win a gunfight with a sword.
00:21:53.300 You can like one time out of 10, but realistically the odds are heavily against you and they are
00:22:00.180 becoming more lopsided as we go forwards.
00:22:03.020 Yeah.
00:22:03.740 So that's why we take these stances.
00:22:06.880 It's not a, and I think it's so easy to look at this and just think, oh, it's an aesthetic
00:22:11.380 stance.
00:22:11.900 And what I mean is those, oh, because they like technology.
00:22:14.060 Oh, because they came from the Bay Area originally and their culture comes from that.
00:22:17.480 And that's why they're so pro tech.
00:22:18.820 No, it's because we've sought through where things are going and you haven't.
00:22:22.380 And you don't understand that if you take a low tech approach, you are dooming your culture
00:22:28.220 as much as the people who are chemically castrating their children right now. 0.80
00:22:31.220 To be fair, I would say most people aren't thinking 200 plus years in the future.
00:22:35.900 And we are.
00:22:37.240 So that's not something we've evolved to do.
00:22:40.900 Humans have evolved.
00:22:41.820 It's just, it's humans.
00:22:43.940 Our evolutionary window is this one portion of the relay race where we're running.
00:22:48.720 And as soon as we patch the torch, pass the torch, it's over.
00:22:52.500 We're like, okay, and that's it.
00:22:54.280 So it's because we're thinking in terms of the full relay race, and they're thinking only
00:22:58.500 in terms of their sprint that this is coming up.
00:23:01.060 And that's fine.
00:23:02.440 But if you care about intergenerational durability, you're going to have to think 200 plus years
00:23:08.900 out.
00:23:09.340 That's all.
00:23:10.220 And I think a final question would be, then why do we so aggressively ally with these
00:23:14.240 technophobic groups?
00:23:15.460 Like, why?
00:23:16.760 Because we do.
00:23:17.200 I love a lot of these technophobic groups.
00:23:18.960 I think, like Louise Perry, I was recently on her podcast, and she's like, I think God
00:23:21.620 doesn't want us engaging with technology.
00:23:23.420 And this is the perspective that a lot of people have, like super high technology, the
00:23:26.720 level that we've gone in terms of technology, whether it's genetic technology or AI human
00:23:30.280 integration, or even just where we are with the internet and everything like that.
00:23:33.460 And I can understand this perspective, and I like these people, and I consider them our
00:23:37.020 allies today.
00:23:38.480 And so people are like, why do you do that if you don't think they're going to matter long
00:23:41.820 term?
00:23:42.060 And it's because they matter today.
00:23:43.340 They're frankly larger in number.
00:23:46.100 Like anyone who's being honest about this, like we're just pragmatic about everything.
00:23:49.120 Anyone who's being honest about this would know that the technophobic pathways to maintaining
00:23:53.920 high fertility rates have a higher population than us.
00:23:57.560 And so long as they're willing to be pluralistic, they're willing to ally with us.
00:24:01.060 And they're not particularly a threat to our group, so long as they are even vaguely pluralistic,
00:24:07.880 right?
00:24:08.640 They're not going to run in and murder us all and then try to use us as like their technophilic
00:24:12.880 captives like Hamas had planned to do in Israel, right? 0.64
00:24:15.840 And so that means that we can live alongside them and that our goals are broadly aligned.
00:24:21.000 And from our perspective, and this is probably the third point that they don't realize, long
00:24:26.240 term, when our views are no longer aligned, they are not a threat to us.
00:24:30.080 We often use this analogy of the Valley of the Lotus Eaters being a trial that our species
00:24:35.660 is going through right now, where we have infinite temptations around us, which serve
00:24:42.000 to tempt those away from the righteous path of life, of starting a family and getting married
00:24:47.080 and investing in the next generation, which your culture needs to do to survive.
00:24:52.280 The easiest path through the Valley of the Lotus Eaters is to take hot pokers to your eyes. 0.70
00:24:58.120 It's to blind yourself so you do not seize these temptations.
00:25:02.660 If pornography is a threat, don't teach your kids to resist that threat.
00:25:07.320 Just ensure they never come into contact with it.
00:25:10.060 This is true for the internet.
00:25:11.640 This is true for technology.
00:25:13.980 The problem with this path through the Valley of the Lotus Eaters is you leave the valley blind.
00:25:21.680 And at the other end of this valley is a battle royale, essentially, and you will be witless and defenseless
00:25:32.480 when that time comes.
00:25:34.780 We haven't had to deal with a battle royale, basically, or a cultural battle royale, since
00:25:40.560 the last dominant cultural collapse, since really the collapse of the Roman Empire.
00:25:44.620 But we are about to enter one again, and as Simone is about to point out, sure, maybe you can regrow your eyes
00:25:52.640 after a while, but you will need some groups going through the Valley of the Lotus Eaters
00:25:58.880 who got through it because they fortified their spirit, not because they blinded themselves to temptation.
00:26:06.680 And if we use this battle royale analogy, everyone in the battle royale who immediately stands up and says,
00:26:12.940 look, I'm willing to let everyone who sides with me do their own thing at the end of this,
00:26:18.860 they have many allies who might join them, because everyone else who takes that perspective can also join them.
00:26:25.000 Everyone in the battle royale who thinks it's my way or the highway, allies will be slim.
00:26:30.720 The reason we take the cultural approaches we do is because we lose if we don't.
00:26:36.040 Not because we are polluted by the urban monoculture or modernity.
00:26:40.260 That, and I also think just because a group is technophobic now doesn't mean they will always be technophobic.
00:26:46.120 And I think that it may be that to make it through this initial adjustment period,
00:26:51.560 while everyone else is being exposed to essentially a virus for which we have no immune system,
00:26:56.500 it is better to first isolate yourself, wait and see what vaccines develop,
00:27:01.400 choose the most efficacious vaccine, and then introduce yourself to the virus, right?
00:27:05.160 So I just feel like to a certain extent, they're quarantining.
00:27:08.120 And quarantining isn't about permanent isolation.
00:27:10.660 Quarantining is about, for a specific period of time, isolating yourself until you know that you can come out safely.
00:27:16.360 So I think we also look at them from that perspective, that they are quarantining,
00:27:19.720 and in the future, they may be coming out in a uniquely advantaged position.
00:27:24.620 I completely agree with you.
00:27:27.140 And I think that this is another reason why we try to protect these groups.
00:27:30.360 And people are like, why would they change their mind about this?
00:27:33.500 And they're taking such a technophobic perspective right now.
00:27:36.240 They're going to change their mind when they begin to see groups getting rounded up and killed.
00:27:40.160 That's when you change your mind about how important those AI drones are, okay?
00:27:46.000 Is when you see, and fortunately, I think if you're in the US, if you're in the UK,
00:27:49.880 you are going to see this happening in other regions, likely Middle East, parts of Africa,
00:27:55.600 long before it happens here.
00:27:57.560 And you're probably going to have at least one generation to say,
00:28:01.000 oh, this is what happens if I don't embrace the technology I need for defense.
00:28:07.360 And that's why we think they will engage with this.
00:28:10.140 I think they'll be given a chance.
00:28:12.260 And then until then, we just need to keep pushing through as much as possible while,
00:28:17.300 and a lot of people don't know that we do this, while working as groups to off the records,
00:28:21.200 like a lot of the technological developments that's happening in the world right now
00:28:23.900 is happening off the records.
00:28:26.140 Because they talk to us, a lot of the genetic technology stuff like that can't be known publicly.
00:28:30.520 A lot of the AI stuff can't be known publicly because there's so many hostile groups out there.
00:28:34.540 And so why even engage?
00:28:35.660 So I think with a lot of people, they're like, oh, we're nowhere near X technology,
00:28:40.160 they'll tell us.
00:28:40.740 And we're like, oh, you may just not know what we know.
00:28:45.300 Here's the question.
00:28:46.100 If you say we're nowhere near X technology, ask yourselves the question.
00:28:50.240 If there was a group that was near X technology, would you know about them?
00:28:54.420 Would it be in their best interest for you to know about them?
00:28:57.600 If the answer is no, then you actually have no information about how close we are to certain technologies.
00:29:02.260 And so what you're seeing happen now, like when it does hit the fan, I think a lot of people will be surprised by the tech certain groups like ours are able to bring to bear before they get to us.
00:29:18.020 They think, oh, the tech that's being used in whatever fight in Africa right now or in the Middle East is the fight.
00:29:24.940 So this is why I think that the bloodshed will ultimately be minimal is as soon as the angry groups realize that they can use tech to enforce their value systems on other groups.
00:29:35.920 The pluralist alliance will likely be at a tech level that has been isolated from the global knowledge ecosystem for long enough that it's basically in sieve a few tech levels ahead of everyone else, which will give it a great degree of defendability.
00:29:51.320 I'm excited for it.
00:29:53.080 Yeah.
00:29:53.460 We're already seeing this having to unplug from like worldwide genetic databases because they're blocking people's access and stuff.
00:29:59.740 Yeah.
00:29:59.980 Scary, but exciting.
00:30:02.220 We're the kind of people who look at dire situations and get stoked because that's our culture.
00:30:08.160 And again, we are truly pluralistic.
00:30:09.660 I will never try to remove the values from another group.
00:30:12.500 And I hold that perspective because it earns us allies.
00:30:15.920 And so that's why it makes sense to be pluralistic.
00:30:17.940 We're not pluralistic from a gregarian.
00:30:20.440 Altruistic perspective.
00:30:21.980 We are pragmatic pluralists.
00:30:24.320 Yeah.
00:30:24.500 And now the question is, if we become the dominant group, would we still be pluralist?
00:30:29.500 And the answer is yes, because we can't ensure we'll always be the dominant group.
00:30:33.260 Not just that.
00:30:34.420 I think we also strongly believe that a diversity of ideas is crucial in maintaining human...
00:30:39.740 Yeah, we believe that.
00:30:40.460 But I'm also just saying from an existential standpoint, I think pluralism is required to win the game our civilization is entering,
00:30:46.860 given that the world is so interconnected now that we are all pluralistic.
00:30:50.140 We don't live in mono-ethnic or cultural nation states anymore.
00:30:54.500 And to go back to that would be as bloody as when India and Pakistan split from each other. 0.97
00:31:02.920 Let's hopefully not.
00:31:04.060 Let's sort all the Muslims to one country and all the Hindis to another country. 1.00
00:31:07.860 Yeah, that was a terrible idea.
00:31:09.720 It didn't work out so well.
00:31:11.280 A lot of people aren't familiar with how bad the bloodshed from that was and how Winston Churchill tried to prevent it.
00:31:16.640 And he told Gandhi this would happen. 0.98
00:31:18.300 And Gandhi was just a selfish prick. 0.99
00:31:20.480 Sorry. 1.00
00:31:21.140 And with that, off we go.
00:31:23.620 Yeah.
00:31:24.540 I'm glad you're industrious and technologically.
00:31:26.000 Just like he did with the Nazis. 0.93
00:31:27.380 This Hitler guy, we need to get rid of him. 1.00
00:31:28.880 He pushed pretty hard for that.
00:31:30.800 And he thought his political career was so over from pushing for that.
00:31:34.240 It was for a while.
00:31:35.640 It was for a while.
00:31:36.500 He wrote his memoirs, his autobiography, before World War II because he thought his career was over.
00:31:41.360 Yeah, when he did that whole painting debacle.
00:31:43.360 I think it's sweet when George Bush, Churchill, go through the little painting thing.
00:31:48.680 That forward-watching face.
00:31:50.720 All right.
00:31:51.620 Off we go.
00:31:52.780 I love you.
00:31:53.600 I love you.
00:31:53.660 I love you.
00:31:55.720 I love you.
00:31:56.380 I love you.
00:31:57.240 I love you.