Based Camp - Polyamory Enters the LGTBQIA+ Pantheon (This is Good)

00:00:00.000 hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we're going to be talking about

00:00:03.440 lggbd ttt iqq aapp which was used by the canadian teachers federation materials

00:00:12.400 as an example no wait that there wasn't a joke no that's not a joke one that's a that's a real one

00:00:18.960 they provided zero dollars to deal with the ongoing genocide of mmiw g2s lgbtqqia plus

00:00:27.560 this i could go through it all but i think it's probably more interesting for me to just get to

00:00:33.480 the point of all this which is the recent and an increasing inclusion of polyamory as a

00:00:42.300 discriminated sexual identity was in the wider urban monocultural or progressive framework

00:00:50.160 okay that's interesting yeah that it's like i guess well it is some people frame it as a sexual

00:01:00.380 orientation so i guess that it belongs there yeah well i want to talk about this i want to talk

00:01:08.940 about it from a few angles one we are going to talk about it from the perspective of the early

00:01:14.000 days of the gay rights movement sorry not even early days until around 2009 2013 so so up until

00:01:22.540 like more recently the lgbt movement was fervent about the this slippery slope argument on the

00:01:29.660 right that if we normalize same-sex relationships today we'll be normalizing polyamorous relationships

00:01:36.520 tomorrow they were very aggressive i'll go over quotes and stuff this is not the case the movement

00:01:42.920 will never turn into this wait people actually said that really yeah yeah well i mean i always

00:01:48.720 talk about like i remember when i was in school and i talk about my time in the gsa the gay straight

00:01:53.560 alliance and i remember being shouted out of the room because they suggested that trans people may

00:02:01.860 want to participate in sports of the gender they identify as they were shouted out of the room

00:02:06.920 because people said that's a far right slippery slope you would ever do that argument no one would

00:02:12.420 ever do that no one would ever argue that you'd have to be crazy to think that and oh somebody

00:02:16.960 would only present that as an idea in mad faith so they get shouted out of the room and i was like

00:02:21.060 interesting indeed so i want to go over it from that angle i want to go over it from a different

00:02:29.020 angle as well which is like why is it culturally happening because i think it's a shift in the way

00:02:34.960 we see and think about sexual identities and finally what i'm going to argue is i fundamentally

00:02:41.320 think it's a good thing which is going to surprise people to to support it to add it to

00:02:47.740 to consider being polyamorous the same sort of lifestyle choice as being gay

00:02:57.700 ah okay and i'd actually say that i support it pretty much exactly as equally as i support

00:03:06.080 being gay yeah okay sort of like a i wouldn't advise it but you know if that's what you're

00:03:12.820 gonna try i'm not gonna like look down on you for it right yeah so what i mean by this so people may

00:03:19.020 wonder what i mean by this and why i think it is fundamentally a good thing and i and i actually

00:03:22.940 do not think it is logically wrong now that we are identifying it as the same type of thing as

00:03:27.740 being it yeah there is obviously a variance biological variance in both the desire somebody

00:03:37.120 has for additional partners when they are in a long-term loving relationship and the jealousy

00:03:44.000 they feel when you know partners take other partners or like their their ability to handle

00:03:48.560 this i i'd go so far as to argue that in some cultures see people because you know cultures

00:03:55.720 interact with biology right and if you're in a culture where people take multiple wives for

00:04:00.900 many generations you are going to develop unique predilections psychological predilections that

00:04:06.640 people in other cultures are unlikely to have a great example of this that we go over is cucking

00:04:13.140 is really common in the mormon community and statistically more common in mormon areas if

00:04:16.940 you look at like porn searches wow so why would this be the case well if you're in a community

00:04:22.800 where multiple partners is common and you as a female get hugely turned off or hugely jealous

00:04:31.380 when you see your partner sleeping with somebody else you are going to be a more difficult partner

00:04:35.740 you are going to work less well with your sister wives and you are going to have fewer surviving 1.00

00:04:41.000 and successful offspring sure yeah wives aren't going to help them as much whereas and then people

00:04:46.620 can be like well then why are guys into it it's like well you know evolution didn't have that long

00:04:50.380 to work in these regions and so if it makes girls into it it's going to accidentally make some guys

00:04:55.520 into it as well right you know and so you know the the the there's likely a biological component

00:05:02.140 to this as well like i'm just being clear here it's the same with same-sex attraction right like

00:05:06.260 same-sex attraction likely has a a a biological component and is going to be more common in some

00:05:13.360 cultures and more rewarded by some cultures than others in terms of its reproductive fitness

00:05:17.720 interestingly by normalizing same-sex relationships you make same-sex arousal

00:05:25.260 dramatically more genetically unfit

00:05:29.140 so for example in the west historically oh i get it because basically you're allowing people

00:05:37.500 who experience same-sex arousal to like not end up in heterosexual marriages and then not have

00:05:43.160 kids. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Historically in the, in, in Western society, I guess you'd say more

00:05:49.360 broadly, same-sex attraction really wasn't that much a hit to your genes because most same-sex

00:05:55.020 attracted people just got married anyway and had kids anyway. Right. It was the normalization of 0.73

00:06:00.040 same-sex attraction that sort of nuked this as a, a genetic trait that you super, super, super do

00:06:06.660 not want to have. If your goal is passing on as many of your genes to future generations as

00:06:11.140 possible but to continue here but as we've said in other streams so so what i'm pointing out here

00:06:17.620 is there is variance in biologically in how much somebody might be compatible with a polyamorous

00:06:24.400 lifestyle and there is variance both genetically and and you know epigenetically and psychologically

00:06:30.260 in terms of events that happen to you as you're raised that are going to affect same-sex attraction

00:06:36.220 right so both of these variances i think are equally arguable to be outside of an individual's

00:06:44.280 control so i don't think a you know like what gay people would say historically is well i was born

00:06:49.440 this way right as as if the poly person was not potentially also to an extent born that way it

00:06:57.160 might have been less of a clear gradient in terms of the psychological particulivities and arousal

00:07:02.840 pathways but they were born that way just as much as a gay person was born this way or the gay person

00:07:07.720 will say well this is part of my identity it's like well you chose to make same-sex attraction

00:07:12.900 part of your identity you don't have to do that as we pointed out like in different cultures like

00:07:17.480 in the catholic tradition they disproportionately join the priesthood with 25 to 50 percent of

00:07:21.580 catholic huge difference between how you feel and what you make your identity yeah you yeah that is

00:07:27.680 and people are like what so they're forced to go to it's like no they choose it you're the one who

00:07:34.040 wants to force them to have same-sex relationships the Catholic Church is like well you can go and 0.51

00:07:40.260 do that it is sinful but like we're not going to make it illegal I don't think in any Catholic 0.99

00:07:45.240 majority country is being gay illegal right now but here is another option of a way to live your 0.96

00:07:50.220 life and I'd be willing to bet on psychological scores like if you look at because if you look 0.98

00:07:56.840 while gay men are generally psychologically healthier than like bi people or lesbians look 1.00

00:08:01.520 at our problem of like bisexual people we need to talk way off the charts on everything so they are 0.99

00:08:07.000 less psychologically healthy than the regular population i bet if you contrasted same-sex 1.00

00:08:11.220 attracted people who joined the catholic church as priests versus who went into same-sex relationships

00:08:17.640 the ones who joined as priests are probably like much happier have much greater senses of

00:08:22.060 fulfillment and are likely have fewer psychological issues i'd be shocked to learn that people who

00:08:29.800 are same-sex attracted and became priests call themselves same-sex attracted yeah but there's

00:08:35.300 been studies done on it like they're aware of it oh yeah when i say it's 25 to 50 i'm citing like

00:08:41.000 multiple studies here like it's there's an entire people who became priests that's crazy okay i i

00:08:47.600 guess i thought they wouldn't want to admit it uh no like it's not a sin to be same-sex attracted

00:08:54.280 if anything to act on it an additional challenge that you're overcoming in fact god this this is

00:09:00.800 the whole its own rabbit hood it's it's the catholic world and same-sex attraction but

00:09:04.920 same-sex attracted nuns were so common that they played the dominant culturally shaping role

00:09:14.460 of lesbian culture in the same way i think he did a whole episode on that actually yeah in the same

00:09:20.520 way that in the gay community biker culture played the dominant role in the male gay communities

00:09:27.440 cultural endpoint in the in in lesbian culture it was nuns and it mostly happened after vatican

00:09:33.500 two when they moved them closer to the cities and the nuns who previously just did their thing

00:09:39.360 far off in private in the convent or whatever now we're interacting with lay people more

00:09:44.900 in this particular context and and many of them would often deconvert and and go into like the

00:09:51.300 lesbian scene and and but they keep a lot of the you may notice that a lot of like lesbian

00:09:56.640 wear of like the older wear where it deviates from mainstream wear looks weirdly like religious

00:10:01.660 wear and and this is where that comes from if i haven't done an episode fans you gotta let us

00:10:06.680 know because i'm happy to do that episode yeah now i'm trying to remember if you did i you and

00:10:11.460 i've talked about it a lot i can't remember if you did one so we should check yeah i don't i don't

00:10:16.360 remember you talking about biker gangs this is news to me so wait you were unaware that biker

00:10:21.720 games were the dominant cultural force in gay culture in terms of do you look at the way that 0.93

00:10:27.200 gays dress like the chaps with all the leather and yeah i guess i thought that was just like a 0.93

00:10:35.240 more associated with like the bondage community and less with the no the bondage community is 0.58

00:10:40.920 downstream of the biker gang community oh my god wait like they that aesthetic didn't come out of

00:10:46.420 nowhere it it came directly from older i want to say like 1980s 1970s biker culture okay anyway

00:10:55.340 putting it if you're gay during that period like and you're doing the whole like driving around

00:11:00.880 sleeping around thing, you know, sort of itinerant living. I mean, it's a natural culture to fall 1.00

00:11:05.720 into. Sorry, that's way too big of a tangent. But the point I'm making here is when a gay person

00:11:11.840 says, but they, the poly people are not like us, there really isn't any truly discernible way 0.85

00:11:18.820 that it is something fundamentally different. It is a arousal slash psychological profile pathway

00:11:25.980 that has biological and psychological variants that you can choose to identify with or not

00:11:30.660 identify with, that affects lifestyle choices that you may make, which then have larger effects

00:11:37.400 on you in society, like potentially being discriminated against or how other people

00:11:42.180 see and perceive you. So in that category, like, well, historically, I would have just like

00:11:46.700 immediately, I point this out because I, you know, a lot of these are positions I would have found

00:11:51.880 mortifying in the past. If you go to me five, 10 years ago, I would have just reflectively said,

00:11:56.000 well one's a sexual orientation and the other is a life choice you know and it's like

00:12:01.840 no they both have biological and psychological roles and they both have a aspect of choice to

00:12:07.520 them but secondarily the reason i think it's really healthy to put them in the same category

00:12:12.700 from a psychological perspective is obviously the first things that people are going to say

00:12:17.880 it's like well even if you have this additional biological drive to go out and sleep with other

00:12:23.040 people even when you're in a committed relationship you don't have to do that right and it's like well

00:12:30.940 it's the same same sex attraction right or you could say well it's dramatically less optimal

00:12:38.000 to structure for like legal reasons etc to structure a family like what if we normalize

00:12:44.540 polyamory then like a bunch of men aren't going to get wives for example right like there's a bunch

00:12:49.220 of negative externalities to doing this and it's like yeah but if you consider the point of marriage

00:12:54.960 being producing the next generation which is a cost that goes to the the individual you know the

00:13:00.180 state's not helping with that then there's a dramatic negative externality towards normalizing 1.00

00:13:04.480 gay and lesbian relationships right so in that case it is very much the same type of a thing

00:13:10.260 and if you teach your kids that the two things are the same type of a thing i think that they

00:13:17.280 will have an easier time sort of healthily framing it in their heads right it's it's the type of

00:13:22.460 thing that you don't need to react to with like oh how could you ever do that right like i think

00:13:29.680 attacking people in these communities really only serves to hurt the wider we'll call it the sane

00:13:35.520 part of the the cultural movement or the conservative part as it's began to be called

00:13:39.500 but like we don't win elections when we're just like randomly reactively mean or you know

00:13:46.840 overtly signal that we don't approve of specific lifestyles that's the last thing that's the last

00:13:53.980 thing right like stop acting like a leftist purity mongrel okay we can just say oh that's probably

00:13:59.540 not the most efficient way to achieve your particular goals and it might be the most

00:14:04.680 efficient way right like if you are same-sex attracted and you're a woman as simone always

00:14:09.300 points out like you can really rack up babies right if you do it with sibling sperm because

00:14:13.840 then you can have two people pregnant at the same time in a partnership the problem is is that 0.58

00:14:17.700 lesbian relationships are just super unstable and i wouldn't if i was a woman i would be worried

00:14:22.740 about having kids with another woman because okay so guys just us okay nobody clip firming here okay 0.80

00:14:31.060 but women like being in a relationship with a woman there's challenges to that okay you know

00:14:40.940 well, y'all got to make our sacrifices here.

00:14:43.320 And you can look at any of our episodes

00:14:44.760 where we talk about like lesbian dating statistics

00:14:46.880 or gay stating statistics to be like,

00:14:49.720 gay relationships are just like across the board,

00:14:51.800 like psychologically better than lesbian relationships. 0.64

00:14:55.080 The more women you put in a relationship, 0.96

00:14:56.880 the more, you know, abuse, the more, you know, 0.52

00:15:00.160 emotional issues, the more disvalued each partner feels. 1.00

00:15:05.520 Lesbians have always been the conservative movement, 1.00

00:15:09.080 like hidden got you on the left like now now you've got to live married to women it's actually 1.00

00:15:15.880 a common article type i don't know if you've seen these articles of like leftist women who

00:15:21.740 decide that they're bisexual and then try dating women and are like oh my god

00:15:26.320 this was a mistake no they're like i now understand what men were complaining about 0.53

00:15:31.620 like yeah yeah these people are jerks yeah i only need to exist with my own mind to know how 0.66

00:15:39.840 horrible it is i don't know why women need to experience other women to discover it they have 0.55

00:15:45.300 to live with themselves every single day but go figure i guess another interesting thing i point

00:15:50.420 here when i talk about if you're like well how much biological variance could there really be

00:15:54.800 in relationships right and i think i'm probably a pretty good example of that in our because you

00:16:00.680 know we started out in leftist circles when we got married we were fairly leftist when we got

00:16:06.300 married and as part of our you know to today relationship contract we would technically be

00:16:13.400 considered a polyamorous couple in that if i wanted to while simone i i told simone i know

00:16:19.580 you're not allowed to sleep with other people i'm allowed to sleep with other people if i want to

00:16:22.800 right which is the way it often works when you have a high value man in a thing and and people

00:16:27.240 would be like oh so you must be like sleeping or no like i've i don't try to right and and this is

00:16:34.520 pretty obvious from the community right if you look at these other creators even you know constantly

00:16:40.100 in their discords they're like flirting with their fans right now there's another few creators that

00:16:45.740 have been canceled for getting on fans or flirting on fit with fans or whatever and i assume especially

00:16:52.020 the people who are like deeper in the base camp community and hang out on the discord or we're

00:16:57.140 like active in the subreddit before I got shadow banned it's still pretty fun but it's you know

00:17:01.320 that I've like never once done something like that even though I'm in a position where

00:17:06.820 doing something like that would be trivial and the answer as to like why is biology right like

00:17:15.080 when I am deeply psychologically attached to somebody like Simone I don't feel a biological

00:17:22.140 desire to go out there and search for something else and and and it's clear that you know

00:17:29.240 some people don't feel that way so i i just want to make like that biological variance clear because

00:17:37.140 i'm sure that some of our fans probably are in long-term relationships love their partner and

00:17:41.080 they're like yeah but if i had like a platform or something like that i'd probably take advantage of

00:17:47.180 it simone i assume you probably feel the same way would you like want to like sleep around if you

00:17:53.120 could no definitely not i mean even when people who i liked in the past expressed interest in me

00:18:06.800 in that way i would have such a strong negative reaction that i would literally like burn stuff

00:18:12.900 So yeah, she lit a love letter on fire in the sink and photos and other things.

00:18:19.540 This has happened multiple times.

00:18:21.380 Oh, really?

00:18:22.420 Yeah.

00:18:23.160 Somebody's seen photos?

00:18:25.420 Yeah.

00:18:26.220 I just, yeah.

00:18:27.500 I just have a very strong negative reaction to a sexual interest from others.

00:18:33.120 And I always have.

00:18:34.540 Then I met you and I was like, whoa, I'm gay for Malcolm.

00:18:37.540 but yeah I mean I don't know if that's like an emotional attraction or I'm just I find everyone 0.58

00:18:43.940 else so repulsive and you're just the one exception I don't get it but there it is yeah

00:18:50.680 but I wanted to highlight that before we go further into this actually let's steel man this 0.74

00:18:55.360 in what way is being polyamorous fundamentally different from being gay

00:18:59.840 well i mean no no no i mean what on what grounds could somebody legitimately say

00:19:09.040 oh yeah i guess they're very similar in that to deny them basically means that you're not

00:19:14.380 sexually satisfied but you could still make your life work yeah they're very similar in which in

00:19:20.900 in in non in in most formats it means that you're going to have lower fertility though in some rare

00:19:28.720 formats your fertility can be significantly boosted well and polyamory can be very eugenic

00:19:33.700 for a population yeah well and it can help you have a lot more kids depending on how you do it

00:19:39.020 yeah so but but that is that puts you in the minority of polyamorous situations so yeah i

00:19:45.400 guess functionally practically they're quite similar for sure and yeah i guess they are very

00:19:51.920 similar too because the people we know who identify as polyamorous definitely they don't

00:19:56.480 frame it as like this is my lifestyle preference it's more like no like this is how my sexuality

00:20:01.680 works like yeah definitely to them it it it is no different from the kind of of of visceral reaction

00:20:11.980 you see from the people we know who are gay so yeah you're right that's a fair i agree yeah and

00:20:20.480 i think that this is also you see some women and like the conservative movement and we've had some

00:20:24.860 like fans reach out or whatever and they're like oh i can't speak to a man i'll speak to simone

00:20:29.240 right but i'm a woman i can't talk to malcolm right and i find this very interesting or like

00:20:34.960 mike whatever his name is what the last v oh mike pence yeah who has this family rule whereby you

00:20:41.800 never have dinner alone with another woman right and i've noticed some of our fans have been

00:20:48.360 surprised that you allow me alone with other women so freely like with like a love for example like

00:20:55.940 other women who are sexual and known for being sexual right and that you've never really had

00:21:01.680 any concerns about that i mean if you're yeah i yeah i'm well i don't know i feel like a great

00:21:11.660 default if you really have faith in your marriage agreement or your commitment to each other

00:21:17.460 then you will have absolutely no rules because it's it's that strong i feel when people

00:21:24.680 have so little faith in each other or themselves that they do not feel they can be alone with

00:21:30.600 another person aside from their spouse of the opposite gender they won't be able to stop

00:21:35.580 themselves to control themselves i mean is the marriage really that strong or well i mean i i

00:21:43.180 can appreciate that look if basically the point i'm making here is it is not a big moral victory

00:21:49.960 for me to not be cheating on you or not be hitting on fans because i just don't have a desire to do

00:21:56.640 that whereas for other people they need to build more structure into their lives to achieve that

00:22:02.740 end and and both of those are are viable pathways it just depends on how you happen to be built

00:22:08.840 i guess i understand it but also like if that's the case i guess yeah it it does make sense i

00:22:16.320 guess it's it's like if i put it in an analogous situation of this person has a lot of trouble

00:22:23.040 with food and if they're around carbs like they will just if there's a loaf of bread around them

00:22:27.660 they'll just eat the whole loaf of bread if there's ice cream in the freezer they will eat

00:22:30.780 the ice cream and maybe that mike pence rule is more along the lines of we just don't keep ice

00:22:36.320 cream in the freezer, because if it's there, he's going to eat the ice cream. And I, we,

00:22:40.700 he doesn't want to eat the ice cream. He's going to feel bad after it. I don't want him to eat the

00:22:45.040 ice cream. It's going to, you know, he's, he's got heart problems or whatever. Like he's, he's

00:22:49.400 overweight. I'm like, let's not do this. Let's just not bring in the temptation. And I guess

00:22:54.280 that's kind of like a lot of sexual orientations or arousal pathways. Like you understand it's

00:23:01.360 temptation and you may decide that indulging in that interest or temptation or arousal pathway

00:23:07.320 is just not in your practical best interest. Which is such a fascinating meta point. Okay. So

00:23:14.160 before I found out about naltrexone and, and got drinking under control at a normal point,

00:23:19.960 there were multiple ways I regulated my drinking and they were all around access.

00:23:25.560 totally i would only go out and buy single beers yes right yes yes you don't drink a ton but i

00:23:33.960 had he would he would buy the largest like single drink container you could yeah you can buy some

00:23:41.280 big beers was it was it a macedonian leader who was like told he could only have one glass of

00:23:45.940 wine a day so i was doing it's kind of like a bucket or something yes we had a giant goblet

00:23:53.040 made you know for his one glass a day no but this is this is what they're talking about was that

00:23:59.500 right like they're trying to restrict their access to this sort of stuff and and i have done that

00:24:05.960 myself in the areas where i have genetic weakness right fortunately you know cheating on my partner

00:24:11.760 a bunch is not one of those areas but anyway so i was gonna say but for other creators or people

00:24:18.720 with communities dedicated to them having something like a discord server that's just

00:24:23.020 there to like talk about ideas that you've had it's like being a binge eater with a fridge full

00:24:28.540 of cake yes don't drink your cakes guys by the way sorry cake and they're really the only things

00:24:34.940 that they can do is make rules for themselves like i don't get sign on the discord after i've

00:24:40.100 been drinking i don't sign on the discord after i've and people who are on the discord know i

00:24:44.760 have been on the system's court after i've been drinking right like oh no what okay i i i say

00:24:52.820 stuff and it's generally stuff that's just like about my life that i'm not supposed to share or

00:24:59.780 something but yeah the the i i do not you know creep in those those moments you're not skeezing

00:25:06.580 on women yeah but but again i like the drinking thing because i'm not above this biological

00:25:11.580 impulse sure yeah i guess there are areas where you know that if there's availability

00:25:16.780 you won't without control i cannot control myself but where this gets really interesting

00:25:23.040 is the meta point here which is around because some people didn't understand why i just do not

00:25:30.340 care about online pornography right like um especially anything that's drawn or ai created

00:25:36.020 like if a real woman is involved like obviously there is negative moral externality to that

00:25:40.660 but if it's just an arousing image right or an arousing ai story that we just generated as rfab

00:25:46.260 right people are like why doesn't he care about this stuff is maybe he's trying to like do you

00:25:52.780 know like fat women telling other women you look great you know so that they get fat too right yeah

00:25:57.060 and you know like just trying to sabotage like genetic competition and i i realized when they

00:26:04.320 said that, why are framings on this particular topic are so different? If you're a guy who

00:26:11.020 really struggles because their access to that stuff is out there, you're going to want to create,

00:26:18.100 at least for yourself, extremely strict rules around it. And then you look at a position of

00:26:23.560 someone like me who just doesn't feel that particular struggle at a huge level, I'm going

00:26:31.500 to be like yeah whatever because the people who are overly struggling with that are eventually

00:26:38.060 going to be culled from the gene pool right like yeah given given how easy it is to access erotic

00:26:45.100 material these days and any strict rule around never being exposed to that stuff is going to

00:26:52.640 discorrelate with being online right and and unfortunately being online slash involved with

00:27:00.180 ai slash involved in technology all of the things that generate that stuff magically is extremely

00:27:06.360 tightly correlated with are your descendants going to matter yeah are they going to get off planet or

00:27:11.180 not yes technology everything like that right but it's a rather cruel view for you to have right

00:27:18.100 to just be like oh well you're cooked if that stuff is a particularly big challenge for you

00:27:21.960 right yeah but it is also in line with our general philosophical belief i mean if you're going to be

00:27:29.320 culled you're culled if you are not predestined to matter that's a tough roll of the dice but

00:27:37.060 that's just how it is yeah and and and note here what i mean by this is not a person who looks at

00:27:45.600 corn once a day or plays around with an erotic ai storyteller is cold i'm talking about the person

00:27:51.820 who does that for nine hours every day right if you're a person and this stuff is taking up 15

00:27:57.400 minutes of your time 30 minutes of your time a day it's it's no more damaging to you than video

00:28:02.460 games are probably less and and just as masturbatory in terms of like time output what

00:28:07.780 i'm really talking about when i'm talking about the people who are cold are the people who just

00:28:10.520 absolutely spiral out the moment they get access to this yeah and there's people like that who

00:28:15.620 spiral out at the moment they get access to video games right like there's different ways that the

00:28:19.100 world around us can call us oh yeah no we all know i mean okay we're we're old you know we're

00:28:25.380 millennials but i think we all know people who disappeared during college due to wow you know

00:28:31.240 yeah there was at least one in every dorm floor who was that would have happened to asthma gold

00:28:36.640 had he not gotten famous right you know like yeah he was one of the few who went all the way through

00:28:41.920 he like dante he passed through through hell and then just came through the sphincter that is that

00:28:47.140 is him i do unfortunately blizzard made it less addictive by making it terrible so you know that

00:28:53.680 helps no replace anymore but anyway what i want to go into now before is is people say well is the

00:29:00.820 left really pushing this as a mainstream thing so here's part of the black lives ladder mission

00:29:05.920 statement okay mainstream leftist organization we disrupt the western prescribed nuclear family

00:29:12.700 structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and villages that collectively

00:29:18.720 care for one another especially our children to the degree that mothers parents and children are

00:29:24.340 comfortable basically saying they want to disintermediate the nuclear family and that

00:29:28.580 means polyamory that's basically what they're saying right like they believe in if i'm gonna

00:29:34.180 steel man it that could also be the corporate family this extended family networking community

00:29:40.700 that cares for each other and is a more sustainable and more historically accurate

00:29:45.580 form of the family unit yeah potentially i mean i i'll agree with your steel man

00:29:51.740 but now i want to before we talk about anybody knows leftists have fully incorporated polyamory

00:29:58.400 as like a main part of the urban monocultures project right oh yeah you're gonna lindsey west

00:30:04.180 this or what no i wanted to go through what people used to say about polyamory first oh

00:30:09.000 Well, I mean, keep in mind, as much as people act like it's been around forever, it really hasn't. I mean, it was referred to as my father reminds me ad nauseum, but it was free love back then in the 80s. It wasn't polyamory. I think that polyamory first emerged with the book The Ethical Slut, really, right, in terms of popular parlance.

00:30:33.460 I had a longer timeline that actually quit, but the word emerged in the 1980s.

00:30:39.480 Not according to my dad.

00:30:41.500 Well, I mean, I said emerged, coined for the very first time in the 1980s, right?

00:30:46.820 Like, it takes a while to get around and for everyone to agree that this is what we're

00:30:51.300 calling the thing.

00:30:53.680 But the timeline I wanted to go through was things like, let's start with Evan Wilson.

00:30:58.820 this is the founder and president of freedom to marry and the lead architect of the national

00:31:04.000 marriage equality campaign so a 2009 quote from him right okay the right wing would love nothing

00:31:10.740 more than for us to spend all of our airtime discussing distractions such as polygamy bestiality

00:31:17.920 and other from their point of view doomsday scenarios rather than engage in the public

00:31:24.080 about committed same-sex couples being discriminated against so you can see here they're already like

00:31:31.200 this isn't the point this is a a relevant slippery slope argument

00:31:36.480 didn't savage said oh dan savage all right all right dan savage polyamory is not a sexual

00:31:42.720 orientation it is not something you are it is something you do and this is really fascinating

00:31:47.360 because it could be something you are it depends on how you self-identify same-sex attraction yeah

00:31:51.440 And he seems like such a, I mean, he's, you know, famously sex positive and pretty based and pragmatic about sexuality.

00:31:58.420 So this is, that's actually quite surprising. I didn't expect him to be cited as saying something like that.

00:32:05.320 Yeah. Bisexuality Polly Podcast, writing in Gay Publication 2006.

00:32:12.780 And this is in a Michigan LGBT newspaper.

00:32:15.300 I've been greatly disappointed at how the leaders of the same-sex marriage movement have distanced themselves from polyamorous.

00:32:22.500 Though we are equally vilified by our mutual opposition, our existence is an inconvenience because we belie their assertion that there is no slippery slope.

00:32:33.620 The author, a poly activist, explicitly called out mainstream same-sex marriage leaders for deliberately distancing the movement from poly people to maintain the no-slippery slope argument against the conservatives.

00:32:45.300 so even while they're making this argument people in their own camp are like

00:32:48.880 okay but we're actually going to eventually fight for that right

00:32:52.140 now on where and and by the way during the ogre fell 2015 case conservative justices

00:33:01.620 robertus gallia and atelier raised the slippery slope to polygamy argument in dissent lgbt

00:33:07.060 organizations and advocates responded by rejecting any equivalence so that's fascinating so now let's

00:33:13.300 look at the legal stance of polyamory right as it has gained more acceptance of society

00:33:17.720 sorry i needed you've got the brain wiggles no break today oh malcolm do you want me to just

00:33:23.840 you you can i guess you don't want to go to sleep after this but i've got to edit the episode for

00:33:30.100 tomorrow maybe you can kind of train me in your preferred editing methods and i can try to do

00:33:37.640 this for you more but do you want me to bring you dinner to your room so you can go to bed earlier

00:33:42.220 i'll come down it's not gonna help that much okay do you want it earlier or later like do

00:33:51.380 you want to nap right away earlier because if i nap now then i won't i'll get to sleep extra late

00:33:56.440 so i i never nap at night okay then i will i'll just do your dinner first

00:34:00.440 and let the kids play outside and then do theirs next

00:34:03.300 but agents can fully code now guys yes they can you're on pc and chrome or a mac right i mean

00:34:14.200 it's just the local model we haven't tested all of the bridge stuff yet i'd love it if you did

00:34:20.280 test the bridge architecture with the app simone on your map so yeah i'll mark that as my task for

00:34:27.520 tomorrow 2011 i'm sorry but bridge we have a bridge app you need to download so like it won't

00:34:37.140 work on phones but it allows it to do stuff like run programs on your computer yeah in 2011 legal

00:34:44.560 scholar and tweety publishes polyamory as a sexual orientation arguing it could qualify for protected

00:34:50.500 status so 2011 was the first time somebody said sort of legally academically we could fight for

00:34:56.740 polyamory in the same way we fight for gays but that was pretty late 2011 was you know that's

00:35:02.580 a long time after the 1980s when this concept first emerged yeah and then like 2015 during

00:35:10.260 the ogrefeld versus hodges supreme court decision it was widely said no like polyamory is never

00:35:16.300 going to be on a table as part of this movement mid 2010s growing media academic discussion of

00:35:22.300 polyamory in queer spaces, quote unquote, e.g. queering polyamory, but no major push for it yet.

00:35:29.740 Fall 2020, Polyamory Legal Advocacy Coalition, or PLAC, forms a coalition of lawyers, psychologists,

00:35:36.560 and academics, including Harvard Law School LGBTQ Plus Advocacy Clinic. Its mission explicitly

00:35:43.460 includes ending discrimination based on relationship structure, seeing legal recognition

00:35:49.220 for multiple partner families and after that they rapidly began winning it um in massachusetts

00:35:56.920 somerville became the first u.s city to pass a multi-partner domestic partnership ordinance

00:36:01.600 boom okay so that they would that sounds about right right then march 2021 cambridge massachusetts

00:36:10.420 passes a similar ordinance march 2023 somerville is the first u.s municipality to pass a non

00:36:18.440 discrimination ordinance related to family structure and relationship structure explicitly

00:36:24.060 carving out fault the polyamorous families 2024 berkeley and oakland ca pass ordinances adding

00:36:31.500 family dash relationship structure as a protected class 2025 to 2026 a wave of similar efforts on

00:36:40.340 the west coast examples include west hollywood los angeles areas finalizes anti-discrimination

00:36:45.740 protection of polyamorous couples at portland oregon olympia washington washington etc so you

00:36:52.880 can see this is this has become mainstream in in leftist circles and i think that's good

00:36:59.880 because i want to teach my children about these temptations as a bundle both to de-stigmatize

00:37:09.280 the allure of oh this is different but also to de-stigmatize oh you're horrible do you feel this

00:37:15.360 Some people just feel this way. It's up to you whether you think that it will improve your quality of life to act on those feelings. And whether or not you can act on a feeling is in part downstream of your addictive qualities, right? Like how much is it just going to eat your life the moment you engage in it once?

00:37:33.240 yeah quick aside like what's the difference between being polyamorous and being a dude

00:37:41.760 like don't most guys like wouldn't the majority of men if given the option prefer a marriage in

00:37:50.460 which they were allowed to have as many partners as they wanted i mean i'm in a marriage like that

00:37:57.300 right yeah well and i think most and i will be clear we have close friends who are female and

00:38:03.600 polyamorous i'm not saying it's like majority a male thing but like isn't the majority of men

00:38:08.620 just you know just poly and i mean part of the reason why i think there's been so much reticence

00:38:15.080 about that's one of the points i've been making is i think young men believe this because they

00:38:20.740 haven't been in a long-term committed relationship with kids if you asked me this when i was younger

00:38:25.660 I would say yes. Okay. Because younger, I felt that way. Now that I have five effing kids,

00:38:31.440 I don't feel that way. Right. I'm around a lot. And I mean, biologically, that makes sense.

00:38:37.200 Am I in just sort of like, oh, I'm in an environment where women are casually breeding 1.00

00:38:42.600 with me, then I should breed as many of them as possible. Right. Like historically, that makes 1.00

00:38:47.380 sense. Right. However, historically, it also makes sense. Oh, I have a committed partner and

00:38:52.360 five children, yeah, I probably am just going to make things worse for myself if I start

00:38:57.460 seeking out other partners.

00:39:00.540 So you think that human biology basically has a, I don't know, a tendency to kind of

00:39:09.080 lean into whatever seems to be working well?

00:39:12.740 Well, yeah, from a reproductive fitness perspective, yeah.

00:39:16.740 And it probably has various gauges for determining what's working well.

00:39:20.040 i mean there's a reason why i think people who might be in long-term committed relationships

00:39:24.380 but don't have kids still see polyamory as a desirable lifestyle what i've noticed is my

00:39:30.160 friends who are polyamorous and have kids generally stop even who are very aggressive

00:39:37.840 promoters of polyamory once they get a few squidgers around they're like don't want that

00:39:43.760 anymore but that's reduced i mean i think also that like the presence of young kids is it kind

00:39:50.420 of busts sex drive i think this is one of the reasons also why wet nurses were so popular in

00:39:58.820 the past because it was kind of understood that if you had if you were in close contact with kids 1.00

00:40:04.380 like there would probably be less sex i think that that reduces yeah that makes sense so you

00:40:09.920 know like send away the kids send them to the farm with the woman with the the novels and it

00:40:14.980 will all be fine i don't know humans be weird humans be weird i am all for this trend i love

00:40:22.520 that progressives are eating this pill themselves let them eat it right this is where we need

00:40:27.140 progressive society to go you know the well i mean i'm very interested in like this this ultra high

00:40:32.920 fertility subsets of gay lesbian and polyamorous cultures that end up surviving like the lesbian 0.73

00:40:39.900 who actually do like let's double up pregnancies and like spam children and the gays who like 0.50

00:40:45.680 develop the artificial wombs it will be interesting to see i i i cannot comment i mean look if guys 0.54

00:40:52.060 are like well you know gay relationships are always going to be inefficient for x y and z i'm

00:40:59.300 like but you know hold on like check this out right what if we could like engineer people to 0.55

00:41:04.040 be gay right and you know birthing was all done through pods or something like that right 0.70

00:41:09.480 like and then we didn't need women anymore wouldn't society be like dramatically more 0.95

00:41:15.240 efficient like just think about voting maps of like if only men voted versus if only woman voted 1.00

00:41:20.740 right like we're cooked because women are putting their thumb on the scale of civilization right 0.93

00:41:27.520 i mean it would be interesting to see i really would love to see natural experiments of you know 1.00

00:41:35.840 this is a place that is like you know only only female run and occupied and other spaces that are

00:41:43.080 only male owned and occupied and run and you you had that a little bit in mining towns like early

00:41:50.560 telluride for example was probably when they were super efficient early telluride i know i know so

00:41:57.000 maybe you had it a little bit then but they were too small too isolated and too early for us to

00:42:01.140 really used that for like that much fortune but tumblr was also massively influential that's what

00:42:09.400 you know so i don't know if that's a great example

00:42:11.620 groups that became very inefficient the groups that fortune ended up influencing became very

00:42:18.440 culturally dominant yeah fair enough well i love you very much and i will make you

00:42:25.120 steak with foraged ramp butter for dinner yes you've been foraging ramps in the local park

00:42:31.980 and making ramp butter to eat with steak and do not forget to toast the hawaiian buns with

00:42:38.980 butter on it yeah i mean i figure you want me to just toast them and give you

00:42:43.460 softened ramp butter to put on them no i would toast them with the butter

00:42:47.820 with ramp butter on them and melt it yeah don't you typically toast buns with butter

00:42:54.140 yeah but plain butter i don't know how the ramps are gonna toast you could always have

00:42:58.540 more ramps there's no such thing as too much ramps simone okay sure i mean i'll toast it

00:43:04.620 with the ramp butter on it then i mean i like eating ramps raw so like obviously

00:43:08.880 this is ramp season in pennsylvania if you're on the northeast coast of the united states

00:43:15.260 and you are not harvesting ramps this season you need to yeah what's wrong with you what's wrong

00:43:21.100 with you don't you know the new hipster thing is to to forage around yeah it just it's just it's

00:43:28.820 they're just there like we're out there like you know digging them up and people are just walking

00:43:33.720 by like whatever same with wine berries they're just there to to take do you know how much people

00:43:39.960 pay for these in stores and they're just there see this i got this selling corn

00:43:48.520 comes out of the ground i couldn't believe it

00:43:55.960 you see that it's made of chicken it's actually made of chicken you kill it you got free chicken 0.98

00:44:04.600 you can sell it to people or don't kill it fucking eggs come out their arses fucking hell 0.91

00:44:12.440 i don't get it we're doomed society's doomed the wine berries one is really crazy because

00:44:19.920 these are like really tasty raspberry variants yeah they're all over where we live and the other

00:44:24.460 people here it's like they do not see them they will walk by a bush like literally like the paths

00:44:29.740 are just lined with them overflowing with these berries and my guess is it's just because so many

00:44:36.800 people who live here are indian immigrants they they don't know about them or they have a different

00:44:41.120 culture around foraging i mean keep in mind our ancestors i watch white people walk by way more

00:44:46.120 than like the immigrant population in this area and when like for example some of our indian

00:44:51.360 neighbors walk by just as weird and we're like it's ramsyn they're like i know it's great like 1.00

00:44:56.220 they they know but they know it's food indians no good food don't you leave it but it's i i blame

00:45:03.460 the white people i don't know what i mean i don't even know where ramps are native to the wine

00:45:08.640 berries are japanese invasive species so they're so much better than raspberries though the local 0.99

00:45:14.160 cultivar of raspberries are not nearly as tasty as the wine berries i know i know it's a true fact

00:45:19.820 i don't know what to say anyway i love talking to you i hope our fans have a spectacular day

00:45:25.800 don't forget to like subscribe try rfab the new agent feature is pretty good yeah and if you want

00:45:31.140 over i think it's over 80 now certainly over 70 bonus episodes or a new episode every weekend

00:45:37.860 today in addition to what you get during weekdays you can become a paid subscriber

00:45:42.520 on sub stack and patreon and yeah buy this man a nap please someone

00:45:50.380 i don't think we're gonna do two episodes today i'm just too tired i'm gonna i'm not on my game

00:45:58.260 i'm sorry i needed to take a nap today and i just haven't had the time you know i know okay well i'll

00:46:03.740 go make you dinner now maybe you can go to bed crazy early you want to do that i'd love to try

00:46:08.840 that all right let's do it it's on i'll go down now i love you by the way what do you think now

00:46:15.220 do you agree with my take on the polyamory thing like that we should see it as the same as being

00:46:19.400 gay same type of thing yeah it's it's a very strong probably you know biologically based like

00:46:27.040 inbuilt preference for how you conduct your sexuality so yeah i it makes sense to me all 0.99

00:46:38.560 right well i love you to decimone you are a wonderful woman and thank you for your time

00:46:43.440 somebody in the comments said that you are so elegant as a wife and they just do not see

00:46:48.920 elegant well like well thought through sane women talking about things that's very kind

00:46:55.800 if you if you want other good conservative married couples i mean they don't call themselves

00:47:00.880 conservatives all of them but they freaking are uh clamfish tv is pretty good and yeah pretty good

00:47:06.560 yeah there's there's a decent number of i mean i you know i also watch very leftist

00:47:12.080 fridays you love funny fridays i love funny fridays i love what are they the the ex-mormon

00:47:18.340 couple that talks about a couple no you're thinking zelf on a shelf i'm thinking about

00:47:24.700 they both have long blonde hair i don't know who you're talking about yeah i'm so sorry i forgot

00:47:30.500 their names there's there's a lot of there's a lot of cute couples out there of course we've got

00:47:35.740 you know the neilman's the ballerina farm family which i love yes i loved i love to watch them

00:47:44.440 because they're nerdy the the god the husband's name i always forget his his name and i'm so sorry

00:47:50.600 but like his instagram handle is literally hog fathering that he just wanted to have a pig farm

00:47:56.300 you know here he is the you know the scion of the jet flu empire he just wants his pig farm

00:48:01.180 and he's like really stoked and like all of his instagram reels are like look at my cows look at 0.97

00:48:06.180 my pigs look at my kids and like he just loves his life and he's nerdy about it and they got like a

00:48:10.760 roomba for their their cow area and it like moves the poop around and it's cute and he's just like

00:48:16.880 look at this it's so cool look here's a new baby cow and you know just i love yeah it's it's cute

00:48:22.480 when couples you're such a nerd simone that you watch this stuff on tiktok or wherever you're

00:48:28.000 not on tiktok oh no no no i love you i love you too bye pray for steak ramp steak ramp steak

00:48:35.500 remember extra ramps this time and feel free to use the whole ramp in these ones not just leaves

00:48:40.620 are you sure oh yeah it'll it'll all the ranch water recipes it really you know it says only

00:48:47.880 the leaves well it'll create a stronger flavor and i felt that the flavor was a little weak

00:48:54.240 was the last one you made i would do like 3x but i think with the leaves you can do 2x and

00:49:00.940 i mean with the roots okay save the roots for another day because i like the roots on their

00:49:07.380 own a lot too you know and we can do bulldog tomorrow let's do that i want to i want to

00:49:13.180 stretch him out got my hands dirty for that okay bye dig through the dirt like a dog like some

00:49:20.460 kind of yeah animal dressed in your traditional outfit it looks so cute with all the kids in a

00:49:25.620 basket yeah like what are you doing

00:49:28.920 okay

00:49:32.620 you know octavian just spontaneously while studying today it's like i love daddy

00:49:46.060 just randomly says things like that

00:49:50.660 toasty's so sweet too he'll just has he ever just sitting next to you or something been like

00:49:56.500 daddy i kind of love you he doesn't say i love you i mean he'll say that too but he

00:50:01.860 is just like oh you're muted yes so toasty does say that to me all the time the i love you from

00:50:07.960 or i kind of love you i was thinking of a very interesting idea that i'm going to bake into a

00:50:14.220 full episode but i want your thoughts so you can you can give me your thoughts trump derangement

00:50:19.920 syndrome like what actually causes it yeah it's a focus on i've noticed some people who are

00:50:27.560 otherwise fairly right wing get trump derangement syndrome and a lot of the theories i have around

00:50:34.340 trump derangement syndrome focus on why do left-wingers get trump derangement syndrome

00:50:40.540 yeah but not why why are people on the right getting it right yeah i was just sort of thinking

00:50:47.600 for the comments of short fat otaku on our last video was very clear like he he was unable to see

00:50:53.740 positive things trump had done but you said well i'm sorry what he said was i've always been a

00:50:59.100 leftist i was never on the right so okay i mean i guess sort of it felt like he was part of the

00:51:07.940 wider community that was moving to the right in his ideology he just never i guess well actually

00:51:13.620 what i realized about him and i might even do a full video on this because it's really interesting

00:51:18.040 is he was really proud of the fact that he hadn't updated any of his views as new information had

00:51:23.460 come out and and things had changed and like like my positions are always the same and i'm like well

00:51:28.760 that's not like something to brag about right like i'm i'm proud that as i got new information

00:51:33.240 my worldview and perspective changed on things like trans issues religion and immigration i used

00:51:40.260 to be in the game of political opposition that's frequently framed as flip-flopping and considered

00:51:47.100 a dangerous thing to do which of course is crazy i mean in our intellectual circles or whatever

00:51:52.080 people talk about it like this is great you know oh strong convictions loosely held they like to

00:51:58.340 say so it's seen as this big virtue signaler in certain circles but i think in the mainstream

00:52:04.080 world changing your view is considered to be flip-flopping and bad yeah and that he is somebody

00:52:14.160 who is very interesting almost anthropologically interesting because his innate world perspective

00:52:21.560 was literally just what was trendy for progressives to believe in the 90s and a lot of that group

00:52:29.540 like that group basically went in two directions like one group went the woke direction which is

00:52:34.680 how can i use this to like dunk on x y and z out groups and then the other group just kept truth

00:52:40.880 seeking and updated their views as they gained access to new information right and he's this like

00:52:46.960 weird third path of like and after that i just never had a new idea again which is interesting

00:52:53.920 yeah i will get started here

00:52:58.240 but where is the lock

00:53:02.160 what do you think indy

00:53:10.880 Oh, you should walk. 1.00

Based Camp - April 15, 2026

Polyamory Enters the LGTBQIA+ Pantheon (This is Good)

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