In this episode, we discuss a new conspiracy theory that has been gaining ground in the pro-natalist world: that the UN is actually working to reduce the number of births on Earth by 80% by the year 2100, and that it s being done by a group called the "The Club of Rome."
00:00:18.060So, Sandra Dixon Deceive, co-president of the Club of Rome and executive chair of Earth for Life, also chaired the UN COP26 World Leader Summit.
00:00:33.320So, she is a key member in hosting major, not UN population stuff, mainstream UN stuff.
00:00:43.240Like, who does this group say is affiliated with them?
00:00:45.700So, you get individuals like Anders Wilkman, assistant secretary general to the United Nations Policy Director under UNDP 1995 to 1997.
00:00:56.700Or Janice Potentnik, co-chair of the UN International Resource Panel.
00:01:04.020My read from this is it's not that the UN is just like random actors of politically indoctrinated people.
00:01:09.820They are systemically and deeply infiltrated by a group attempting to reduce Earth's population dramatically.
00:01:52.860But within the pro-natalist world, I have this unfortunate thing that sometimes I will see a conspiracy theory and I will begin to dig into it.
00:02:04.000And it is only a conspiracy theory in how it is structured, but all of the facts are true.
00:07:39.880So, I think this makes a lot of sense to me because the UN is involved in a lot of aid programs.
00:07:45.340It's seeing a lot of areas where there are massive numbers of very young people who are struggling and people of all ages who are struggling and suffering a lot.
00:07:54.360And I definitely, after a five-hour crying jag, thinking about this stuff, I'm like, I just wish, I just, I want to undo all humans.
00:08:02.620I just want to, I totally get the feeling.
00:08:04.540I want to 100% get the feeling when you are confronted by that kind of suffering and unmoored from logic.
00:08:12.280Because obviously, these people, most of them, even if they're suffering, want to be born.
00:08:18.460Suffering is part of the human condition.
00:08:22.100And people, there's a reason, you know.
00:08:25.540Anyway, when you're run by logic, you can deal with this.
00:08:28.940When you're not run by logic, and often you cannot be run by logic when you are face-to-face dealing with these issues, with these tragedies, with this suffering, I could totally see why the UN would shift to being an inherently anti-Natalist organization that sees it one of the most expedient ways to end this suffering is to ensure that there just are fewer people brought into these situations.
00:08:52.060Because one, the fewer there are, perhaps the more resources.
00:08:56.820And two, at least that's like five fewer babies they're hearing about dying every day or whatever in some village.
00:09:29.220Because, again, the perinatalist movement that we're a part of, at least, isn't against avoiding unwanted pregnancies, avoiding people having kids that they don't want, that can't.
00:09:40.060But that's not what these groups want.
00:09:43.260That's what I'm hearing when I read this.
00:09:45.300If you read their website – okay, hold on.
00:09:47.760I can just pull up what Earth for Life says on their own website.
00:09:51.780Or you can Google this and read it, okay?
00:09:55.160The dominant economic model is destabilizing societies on the planet, and it's time for change.
00:10:00.860Earth for All is an international initiative to accelerate the systems change we need for an equitable future on a finite planet.
00:10:08.140We found that the next 10 years must see the fastest economic transformation in history if we want to steer humanity away from social and ecological catastrophe.
00:10:23.580I'm telling you about the death and the suffering and the sickness that people are seeing, and they see that as a social catastrophe, and they want to steer away from it.
00:10:30.080And, yes, they care about the environment, too, and they see human load as being a big problem on that.
00:10:38.060This is – they're stating two things, okay?
00:10:41.100They want to decrease the global population at the same time as increasing their control over that population.
00:10:47.780Yeah, because they think they know best.
00:10:49.280And I think people who are involved in dealing with these things firsthand or adjacent to those involved in dealing with these things firsthand believe that they have the authority to make the best changes.
00:11:00.780You see this in many ossified industries all over the place.
00:11:03.700For example, in the travel industry where we work, oh, my God, the people within it are so myopic, and they're not able to see giant solutions staring them right in the face, and that's a problem.
00:11:13.020So I'm not saying that just because they're close to the problem, they know what the best solutions are, but I am saying that, of course, given their position, they're going to think they're the best person, and they're going to think that everyone else with different opinions is inexperienced, not actually on the ground dealing with what they're dealing with, and wrong.
00:11:30.160I guess the problem that I have with your perspective on this is I don't disagree that everyone sees themselves as a protagonist of their life story.
00:11:50.340When an individual believes that their moral system is intrinsically superior to all other moral systems and therefore must be imposed on other individuals.
00:11:59.000So this is why, like when I look at history, when I look at my ancestors, when I look at America in a historical context, why was, to me, like America the good guys in World War II, because after they won and everyone got together, they all thought that America was going to basically lord over them.
00:12:17.300They thought that America was going to say, now that we won, we're basically going to impose our rules on all of the rest of you.
00:12:23.200We're going to take this land from you.
00:12:24.580We're going to take these economic resources from you.
00:12:26.440And instead they said, no, let's create a better system that allows everyone to work independently and yet as part of a global economic system.
00:12:37.340That's what the pro-natalist movement is fundamentally trying to do.
00:12:40.700We are fundamentally trying to create a world that is similar to the world that America attempted to create after World War II, which was a world of decentralized global cooperation instead of globalism, which is centralized global bureaucracy.
00:12:58.740And that world is not just more productive, but it allows every cultural group to live out to the best of their ability, their own potentiality.
00:13:11.220These groups like Earth for All want to quash that.
00:13:15.760They want a world in which people who are like them control everything.
00:13:20.640And they want a world in which people like them can influence who gets to be born and who doesn't get to be born.
00:13:29.020If you look at their efforts, they are focused on – actually, one of the really interesting things about their efforts is if you look at where they think population rates are going to fall, they plot countries like Japan as not having any population fall at all.
00:13:46.980And America is not having any major population fall at all, but most of the Black and Hispanic countries making up the decrease in population.
00:14:02.160Again, I just want to argue that it is helpful to view groups who disagree with you empathetically because the only way that you can begin to engage is by first finding common ground and seeing where you are aligned.
00:14:15.800And then working out the tactical differences where you might each be getting something wrong.
00:14:46.840Some of the worst groups and the worst mistakes that have been repeated throughout history involve dehumanization of other groups and involve not engaging, just framing them in a very unflattering light, and not even trying to resolve problems through engagement.
00:15:04.600I'm not saying we even have to budge on our beliefs or policies.
00:15:09.540I'm just saying you're far less likely to be a convincing force when you immediately piss off the other side or dehumanize them.
00:15:21.240We are too autistic and or weird to care that a lot of people that we'd love to convince hate us because we have glasses that are too big.
00:15:32.900But I don't care that they think that about me.
00:15:36.240But most people, if you walked up to them and you were like, oh, your face is so messed up, they're not going to listen to you anymore.
00:15:42.040And we're doing the equivalent of that by trying to dehumanize and frame as monsters these other groups where I feel like they really are coming from a misguided place, but a place that means well.
00:15:54.800Because, again, I'm there after my five-hour crying jags of realizing how much suffering people are going through in areas where there are really high rates of fertility due to poverty.
00:16:04.580We can talk about some of the other things they're talking about here.
00:16:08.040One of the ways they want to reduce fertility rates is by empowering women, of course.