Based Camp - February 09, 2024

Scientifically Speaking, What Mistakes Are Men Making in Bed？ with Aella

Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 7 minutes

Words per minute

203.52448

Word count

13,655

Sentence count

1,106

Harmful content

Misogyny

87

sentences flagged

Toxicity

134

sentences flagged

Hate speech

71

sentences flagged

Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Ayla and I discuss the rise of AI porn websites and the potential use of artificial intelligence in the sex industry. We also talk about the pros and cons of AI in the porn industry.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).

Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .

Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .

Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .

00:00:00.000 Hello, Ayla! It is wonderful to have you here today. Sadly, Simone is not with us today because

00:00:06.300 she is out petition collecting to run for office and she may just not be appearing in episodes for

00:00:11.680 a while now, which is a little frustrating for me. But oh, by the way, one of the really fun

00:00:16.040 episodes I'm going to do while she's not with us, because I've been meaning to do this forever

00:00:19.760 as an episode, but I haven't gotten to it, is I want to do a review. If you ever want to join me

00:00:24.500 on this, this could be fun to do, of all of the AI porn websites, have you looked into any of these?

00:00:32.100 Not recently. I did like a year or two ago, but that's like a decade in AI timelines.

00:00:37.100 Oh yeah, so okay, sorry. Before we get further on the intro, I just got to tell you about these

00:00:41.060 because they're really interesting. So they typically right now seem to fall into like one

00:00:45.400 of three categories. One is a category of AI sites that like nudes photos of women. So anyone who

00:00:52.020 you're friends with, you can submit your photos to them. I was going to try it with photos of my

00:00:55.620 wife. Like one morning I actually got interesting and I started submitting photos of my wife to see

00:00:59.620 what she would look like. So I'm going to keep it wholesome if I do. Another one, what they do is

00:01:05.200 you choose specific profiles of women, but they're like a cat girl meets you at a stream in like this

00:01:15.160 fantasy world, or like you have an elf girl as like a slave or whatever, you know, right? Like, 0.97

00:01:19.660 and you can chat with these individuals and then you can ask for photos of these individuals in

00:01:25.520 specific contexts, which is really interesting. And then the final category is creating women.

00:01:31.960 So you give a set of parameters that you would like, like a woman to be. And then the AI system 0.84

00:01:37.760 would create a woman that fits that set of parameters. And you can now ask for photos of

00:01:42.460 this woman and chat with her. Like, I want to get your thoughts on this. Cause I think you'd have

00:01:46.740 interesting. Would you like to know more? You can chat with her now? Like do they,

00:01:51.960 when it's integrated with the chatting? Yeah. So it's integrated with the chatting. So they'll

00:01:55.960 integrate the personality and, and, and background and jobs you give her was the chat feature. 0.99

00:02:03.220 Damn. And then you also get porn of her. Does she like sexy talk? Yeah. But you have to pay for 1.00

00:02:09.200 the individual picks. So you pay for credits and then the credits get porn of her. What I was going to

00:02:14.620 do if I did an episode on this and I was going to create like artificial Simone's and try to like 0.99

00:02:19.440 ask them for porn of them. And I actually got bored and tried this one morning. Cause I was like,

00:02:24.800 I want to see pictures of my wife, but like, unfortunately the pictures that they gave me

00:02:29.880 did not look enough like her. And I got sad and left. Yeah. I don't think we're quite there yet,

00:02:36.340 but I think we will be there soon. Once we're there, it's going to be incredible.

00:02:39.200 You can just like have custom wife porn all the time. 1.00

00:02:43.500 Right. And when she's not up in the morning yet, I can go online because that's what I'm, 0.57

00:02:47.440 when I was doing this, I was like, Oh, I want to talk with my wife, but she's not up yet. Can I

00:02:50.720 create like a AI simulacrum of her to talk to? No. Well, what are different ways you think AI will be

00:02:57.060 used in the, in the sex industry? Other than, I don't know. I mean, I've recently, I've been seeing

00:03:03.320 photos of me around the internet with different faces on me, which is upsetting. And they're

00:03:09.180 probably just using like face up for this right now, but it's probably going to become an AI thing

00:03:13.080 pretty shortly. Where it's just like use Aylan's body as a template. And I'm a little offended by it.

00:03:19.620 I want to ask you about offense questions. So there was something that Simone said she'd find

00:03:23.800 offensive, but I was like, it's kind of flattering in a way. So there was a guy in Japan or Korea or

00:03:29.480 something who his wife ended up divorcing him because he would hire prostitutes that looked 0.98

00:03:36.100 like her when she was younger. And I was like, that's kind of flattering. What are your thoughts

00:03:40.300 on that? Would you find that offensive? I mean, I'd probably find it painful. Like it's painful.

00:03:45.440 I guess it highlights that you're older now, right? Yeah. It's painful to like be losing out on sexual

00:03:50.860 access because your physicality is not sufficiently attractive. That's like a quite painful thing.

00:03:55.080 Hmm. Well, okay. So then you, you having other women with their face on your body, 0.99

00:04:00.940 what specifically is triggering a negative emotional reaction around? I don't know.

00:04:05.080 I don't normally, normally like the thing that you're worried about is like somebody taking your

00:04:10.960 face and putting it on a nude so people can imagine you naked, but it's like your identity,

00:04:15.740 but this is like somehow the reverse. It's like, it's my body, but like I'm erased out of it in some way.

00:04:21.540 And that feels like shockingly dehumanizing in a way I didn't expect. I didn't expect people to do

00:04:27.100 this at all. Like what the hell is the motivation? Or I don't know. Cause like they want these other

00:04:33.500 people naked, right? They want sexual access to someone who's not you. Yeah. Well, I'm not even 0.99

00:04:38.000 sure it was a real face. It wasn't even like a person. It was just like a generic face that wasn't

00:04:42.460 mine. And so they could like do it and like sort of steal it without it giving credit to me or

00:04:48.600 something. Oh, and then they would upload them. Oh, that's, Oh, that's people reporting like, Hey,

00:04:54.480 is this you? Like, this is your body. It's just like a generic. It wasn't a person. It was just,

00:05:00.400 and I'm like, that is, that was me. God damn it. You're like erasing my identity from a thing. It's 0.99

00:05:05.320 almost like something that plagiarizes your work somehow. Yeah. Well, no, it is. Well, so, so I didn't

00:05:12.520 actually finish the intro here because I got so sidetracked by interesting talk about pornography.

00:05:17.840 So Ayla is, you know, I was actually thinking today and I was trying to think, is there another,

00:05:22.580 because I've written a book on sexuality, a best-selling book on sexuality, The Pregnant

00:05:26.340 Sky to Sexuality. Check it out. It sells for like 99 cents. It's really good. I have a couple copies.

00:05:31.820 Yeah. Oh, so you like it. Yeah. So Ayla, as somebody who like is deeply interested in this field,

00:05:36.560 I was thinking you are probably the best sexual researcher in human history. And then I was

00:05:41.460 thinking, does Kinsey beat you? And I was like, not really. Kinsey is more like the Freud of human

00:05:46.120 sexual research. He is important because he had the idea to do it, but his research was terrible.

00:05:52.360 So you're probably the single best researcher on a huge chunk of humanity. And you have such low

00:05:59.900 self-esteem. I always seen your, your, your things you're like, Oh, I can't really be that great. Or

00:06:04.220 like, I remember one recently was like, are people really that bad at marketing themselves? And I'm like,

00:06:09.660 Ayla, you don't understand. Like you are top fraction of a fraction of a percent of intelligence

00:06:14.660 and agency in the human population. People really are that bad, which is fun to talk to you about

00:06:20.360 sexuality because most people don't talk about this subject. And what I had planned in this episode

00:06:25.280 talking about was people need to check out this new sub stack she's done. It is data driven advice 0.94

00:06:31.400 on how to be good in bed. And it is data driven, not just from one of maybe the most sexually experienced

00:06:38.040 people in human history, but also one of the most deep sexual researchers in human history. 0.99

00:06:43.500 Like you are not going to get, this is not like woo shit. Like this is not like you're going to like, 0.98

00:06:49.160 I'm going to, you got to, because sexual advice stuff. Like if you go to like sexuality coaches,

00:06:54.260 it's all woo. Like, like from the stuff I've seen, it's all like half of it is healing crystals

00:06:59.480 and half of it is sex stuff. She is like hard data, um, which is really cool. Um, but, uh, so 1.00

00:07:07.460 I, I'd love to get to this data, but I'm actually having fun on this topic of the future of like

00:07:13.220 online sex stuff. So do you have other thoughts on where things are going with this? If I'm even

00:07:17.700 thinking like, if I was going to blue sky, I can give you one of my thoughts on how I might use AI.

00:07:21.600 I might take like audio. So like somebody could take, like, suppose somebody wanted to engage with

00:07:30.920 someone like my wife sexually, right? Like was in an online environment. They could download like the 0.99

00:07:36.200 hours and hours. Cause we do an episode every day of our podcast of podcast episodes, create a

00:07:41.800 synthesized personality by separating out the woman's voice, put that into an AI system and have that 1.00

00:07:48.620 respond to them. Now I'm thinking of this selfishly. Cause I was actually like, okay, well, I wanted

00:07:52.800 to engage with a good emulation of my wife. That's what I should do because then I could talk to her 0.99

00:07:57.940 without distracting her from the important work she's doing. But you could also then do this with

00:08:03.280 like pictures of women or video feeds of women to create a fully like really authentically synthesized

00:08:11.980 woman. What are your thoughts? Well, and then what this is interesting. And from an evolutionary

00:08:16.900 perspective is it gives all men access to the highest quality woman possible from a masturbatory 1.00

00:08:22.960 standpoint. Yeah, this is, I mean, like it's more than masturbation is direct. Like this is part of 0.98

00:08:29.120 why OnlyFans is so successful is because it gives you direct personal access to the woman as opposed to

00:08:33.820 porn. Cause people are always like, why am I paying for porn when I could just get porn free? I'm like,

00:08:38.420 turns out there's a huge market for personalized shit. So yeah, I think there's like probably like, 0.98

00:08:43.120 it's like a more personalized masturbation, which sounds great. From my end, I'm, I'm interested 0.90

00:08:48.160 in it because like, as an OnlyFans girl, I would love to outsource my content. I would love to just

00:08:54.460 like press the button and have like the A-list simulation, you know, like talk and live stream

00:08:58.220 and do videos for my guys. That sounds wonderful. Because like, I, it's nice. I enjoy, I do genuinely

00:09:04.840 enjoy like being slutty and promiscuous on the internet. But like, honestly, I've taken so many naked 0.99

00:09:09.700 photos of myself. I kind of want to shoot myself every time I take a nude now. It's just too much 0.94

00:09:14.820 and it would be nice. I just want it to happen. You know, you created a contest around this like

00:09:20.860 a year ago, like early, early AI, you are cutting edge. So you had this huge databank of images and

00:09:28.440 you created a contest for somebody to create a really good AILA generator. Can you talk about this?

00:09:33.200 Yeah, we'd want to see if we could like, use AI basically, can we make this happen? If it turns

00:09:39.700 out, no, none of the people competing were really quite good enough. Because I think in order to

00:09:44.020 work, it has to be relatively photorealistic. Because people just it's not that exciting to

00:09:48.620 view something that you can tell as AI. So

00:09:51.420 I think you literally did it the first moment somebody had the idea of doing something like

00:09:57.780 this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I've been in the AI world, the AI safety world for long,

00:10:04.080 well before ChachiPT or AI started picking up in the last few years. So this has been like in the

00:10:09.200 stream, like pretty advanced on it, but it's just not ready.

00:10:12.640 People would know this about you as an outsider, just, you know, like AILA is really,

00:10:16.380 really high status within the AI safety world in the EA sphere. Like among the type of people who are

00:10:23.180 nerds about like Scott Alexander stuff, you're going to get maybe a third of them who are nerds

00:10:27.540 about AILA stuff. And you go to a lot of the conferences and stuff like that, because I think

00:10:33.660 like your number one main squeeze is also in that space. Yeah. Yeah. One of my partners is

00:10:38.900 president of MIRI. So that helps. Yeah. We were both in the same circles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which

00:10:47.540 is, which is interesting that you're in all these, these intellectual circles. And some people who

00:10:51.440 follow you as an outsider might not know that, that you're pretty high status within these

00:10:55.160 intellectual circles. Um, well, so I was thinking if you could automate yourself,

00:11:00.660 what could you offer that no one else is offering right now? I guess through a really high volume of

00:11:09.600 images, like I'm wondering if there's arbitrage opportunities for you as a business woman here. 0.59

00:11:13.160 So you have an unusually high number of images of yourself nude compared to other women.

00:11:18.860 You could process these images, create a better AILA generator than other people,

00:11:28.020 but you need to, it seems like a lot of the stuff is the AI stuff is good personality attachments.

00:11:34.540 How would you handle that? Do you have a big feed of like a video feed or, or video backlogs or

00:11:40.940 something like that you could use to try to create that? Or would you try to simulate it?

00:11:44.000 Like, like for personality wise, just to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, I have tons of

00:11:50.540 footage of interviews on podcasts and there's a bunch of like porn stuff. I, I would love to have

00:11:55.900 more of me to talk to people because I think I'm like relatively, I have some, some stuff to offer

00:12:03.740 and I just don't have the time or inclination. I'm like pretty solo person. I don't like hanging out

00:12:09.180 with other people that much. I'm very private in the sense that the way I spend my time. And so

00:12:14.040 it would be nice to like, have somebody like an AILA clone go out and do all that for me. I would

00:12:18.840 love that. I love that idea too. That is, that is fun. Well, I mean, so then I know you've been

00:12:26.400 thinking about maybe doing a podcast or something like that. Has that moved forwards or are you more

00:12:29.940 focused right now on the, the, the sex guide blog? Well, I'm probably gonna do a good at sex podcast.

00:12:34.140 So the plan is we bring a bunch of women together and talk about what makes sex good. 1.00

00:12:39.420 And we have some variations on this. I don't want to give you too many details, but I'm pretty excited.

00:12:44.180 I have an idea. Do you want me, I mean, are you connected with like, like documentary type teams

00:12:49.100 and stuff like that? Like, have you thought about pitching this to like Netflix and stuff?

00:12:52.940 Do you, I mean, do you have connections there? Cause I have a few.

00:12:54.940 Well, the thing is, I'm not sure that Netflix would result in the level of revenue that I'm interested in.

00:12:59.460 Oh, oh yeah. Because you want to gate content access. Good idea. Okay.

00:13:05.080 Yeah. Like right now it's, this is turning into my full-time job. Basically it's like paying me more

00:13:09.720 than only fans does. So education, your brain is now paying you more than I love it. I mean,

00:13:19.400 again, I know I'm not degrading. Like I'm like happy doing sex work and stuff, but like it's,

00:13:23.980 I'm a little burned out and I would love to just do something that engages my brain

00:13:27.540 and getting paid for it. It's so exciting. It's also less freaky because there's always this

00:13:32.320 background insecurity that like my looks are going to run out and then I can't continue earning money

00:13:37.120 through sex work. And, but this is like, oh, I could keep doing this for quite some time,

00:13:40.660 even after I start looking really ugly. So it's like, realistically, that's going to happen.

00:13:47.080 I mean, we in our society aren't supposed to tell women that, but like objectively

00:13:50.700 the, the, the, that's going to happen. And I think that being very shrewd in how you are

00:13:57.880 backstopping your career, which is also really interesting. I think that some people don't

00:14:01.540 think about with people like you is they think that the, you know, like you don't recognize this

00:14:06.280 and you aren't like doing career planning stuff and you absolutely are.

00:14:11.040 I know it's like a weird sort of like outside, I don't know, it's not quite typical mind fallacy

00:14:15.600 that people do, but I get this a lot. When, when I talk about like running an orgy, people are like,

00:14:20.220 oh, she's going to fuck so many people watch out for the STD spread. And I'm like, do you, 0.99

00:14:25.460 if you, do you not think about the logistics? Like if you think about, if you were going to run an

00:14:29.880 orgy, what would you do? You would probably require STI to, it's like a very basic thing that people

00:14:34.840 like aren't, they just sort of jump to the conclusion of what the final salacious result will be and not

00:14:39.660 be like, wait, if you logically try to plan something like this, you would probably install fail safes

00:14:43.860 or, or like good safety measures. Uh, and so it's a very similar with like sex work. People are

00:14:49.080 like, ah, she's going to get old and then be upset when nobody loves her. I'm like, did you not,

00:14:53.360 did you not think that maybe I have thought about this? You're right. Oh my God. I am going to age.

00:15:00.840 Oh my God. Nobody referred to me. It's ridiculous. I don't understand.

00:15:07.940 It reminds me of the end of Clueless when the, the lady who owns a cigarette company and 1.00

00:15:12.040 smoke cigarettes every day. And the girl goes, you know, those things cause cancer. 1.00

00:15:15.020 And she's like, oh my God, no one ever told me like, yeah, it's the same. It's the same with us.

00:15:22.240 I think a lot of people just don't put a lot of thought into the people that they're attacking

00:15:25.000 was in online environments. Like we'll get these attacks. Like, oh, they want to replace the world

00:15:29.260 with people who look like them and like, like their genetic stock. And like, I'm like, that's not

00:15:34.000 something we've ever said. And they're like, but their genetic stock is flawed because they have

00:15:38.160 glasses. And it's like, you don't want to replace people with people are like, oh,

00:15:42.640 they must be racist. And I'm like, we are like, virulently not racist. And they're like,

00:15:48.260 oh, I don't know about that. You want people to have more kids, but you're not racist. I don't

00:15:52.620 see how those two things could correlate. And it's like, what?

00:15:58.380 Yeah. It's a shame. It's like something I had to update to that. People are going to attack

00:16:03.500 versions of you and not you. Like when I was going into being public, I was like, oh, okay.

00:16:07.980 I'm ready for people to criticize who I am. But it turns out they don't. They just make

00:16:12.000 up like a straw person about you and then criticize that. And you're like, wait, wait,

00:16:16.860 though. That's, it's a lot harder to handle. I think.

00:16:21.460 Yeah. Well, no, it is. And can you hear me? Okay. By the way, I got somebody's mowing outside.

00:16:27.040 Can you still hear me? Okay.

00:16:28.580 No, I don't hear it at all. I made a mistake and I got a little alert on my hair. Okay. Anyway,

00:16:33.220 wait, no. So it's really interesting. I don't know how much press you get. Like we get a decent

00:16:36.880 amount of press. Interesting things is I begin to get a feel of the different types of attack

00:16:44.160 articles where one type of attack article, and they are not correlated with the prestige of the

00:16:49.640 newspaper. One type of attack article we get pretty frequently is it's clear that somebody read the

00:16:55.920 title of another attack article, but didn't pay for the article. The Guardian does this really

00:17:01.980 frequently where they will write an attack article. And it's clearly based on the title of another

00:17:08.280 article, but not having paid for the article.

00:17:13.320 Wow. That's, that's, it has it like a super glaring. Like they'd like cite facts that are from

00:17:19.120 like before the paywall or something. Yeah. Yeah. So they'll cite facts from before the paywall. And

00:17:24.040 then they'll say other things that are like something that someone would intuit. Like they'll say stuff

00:17:28.840 like we do like explicitly racist things, which like, it's very obvious, even if you had read the

00:17:34.680 article that we spoke against that, but like, they hadn't read the article. They're just like,

00:17:38.580 oh, they're pronatalists. They must be racist. Or, or where this was really obvious to us is one of the 0.97

00:17:45.020 articles on us insinuated that we were billionaires. And then a bunch, they said billionaires like Elon Musk,

00:17:50.800 but it had a picture of want people to have more kids. And so then when other people wrote articles on

00:17:56.460 that, they would say we are billionaires. And so there's a huge genre of article Malcolm and Simone

00:18:01.780 are billionaires out there right now. I mean, it's like an awful reputation to have, but do you have

00:18:09.280 any like positive, like attack articles on you out there? Like, like, no, usually the articles

00:18:14.800 aren't explicitly attack because I think you are more like susceptible to the woke, like, or like more

00:18:20.660 of an easy target for the current cultural war. Cause like you're associated with like, are you

00:18:25.460 right wing? Are you being trad? Are you weird sex people? Nobody fucking knows. And me, I'm just like a

00:18:30.680 sex worker. And I think this confuses people because like a lot of the mainstream media right now is sort

00:18:35.340 of like at least lip service pro sex work. So I think this is confused a lot of the ways that people

00:18:41.660 talk about me. Normally I'm in, I'm in media that I didn't volunteer to participate in because people

00:18:47.660 are reporting on something outrageous that I've tweeted. And then that, that will get through the same

00:18:52.800 repeat. Like there'll be like one big article that somebody writes like, Hey, look at this insane

00:18:56.440 thing. She didn't shower very much. And then there'll just be like a whole string of other 0.76

00:19:00.640 articles where people are like copying over that information. I'm like,

00:19:04.000 No, but I, I, well, I mean, of the attention economy, you grab a lot of it. I love that. Very,

00:19:10.440 very good at that. It's not really that intentional to be clear. I was like, normally I'm like, I didn't

00:19:15.560 know this was the thing guys, but okay. But by the way, I don't know if this has happened to you.

00:19:19.020 One of the types of articles that now we watch out for a lot is somebody spotted us meeting

00:19:23.400 publicly with a friend. And now like that entire friend group doesn't talk to us. And like now we

00:19:29.840 cannot meet publicly with people anymore. Like I can't go publicly to restaurants with friends. I

00:19:34.500 can't like, it's really weird. Like I didn't expect this to happen as quickly. Have you had that happen

00:19:40.440 to you? Like somebody was like, no, I don't think I have the hate attention of mainstream publications in

00:19:46.940 the same way you do for some reason. I'm more of a, this is, this is, this is Julia Black, a stalker

00:19:53.600 who, you know, I don't have a stalker like that there. I, it is a little weird though. Cause like

00:20:00.820 I have no, I've hung out with somebody like at conferences, like publicly, I'm talking to people

00:20:05.520 who like, maybe their reputations could be damaged by seeing associated with me, but you know,

00:20:10.460 nothing happens. So I think maybe I just don't have a, like you are, you have a thing. I think

00:20:15.200 you're like easily compressed into sort of a trope, which is like the pro natalist racist

00:20:20.220 or something. And I don't think I'm like quite as like the weird sex workers, like less of a

00:20:26.200 powerful trope. So I think I'm less vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that outsiders

00:20:31.480 look at this, they're like, Oh, well, I think the trope that you get grouped into, which you don't

00:20:35.180 fall into at all is, and it's interesting. It's actually almost as strong as us. So it was us

00:20:39.680 we're pro natalist, but we're really anti-racism. And we try to signal that really loudly,

00:20:43.520 but people don't always notice you are a sex worker, but you are also, I consider a very high

00:20:48.900 tier intellectual and you try to signal that. But a lot of people probably like group you in was

00:20:53.380 like sex worker must be bimbo. I get those comments so much. It's like, why is anybody 0.89

00:20:58.080 taking this horse seriously? I get that constantly. Or like, she's a sex worker opinion discarded. 0.91

00:21:02.620 It's like a, almost like you could copy paste that comment. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like how could you,

00:21:08.220 you are. And for people who don't know, we hang out with like a lot of the quote unquote,

00:21:13.600 like dissident intellectual class. She is pretty much universally respected was in that community

00:21:18.420 as an intellectual. Other people might not be out there saying that. So one thing I wanted to talk

00:21:22.860 about before we end this, cause, cause this was actually what prompted me to reach out to you about

00:21:26.720 this was a chart that you put together of how much women like it, how much men do it of sexual

00:21:35.200 fetishes. Yeah. Or less, it's like a little bit more sex acts as opposed to fetishes, but there are

00:21:41.200 some fetishes in there. Yeah. And to encourage people to get your thing, I am going to gray this

00:21:47.220 out. So people won't know if their thing is on here or not, but you also put into this, what was

00:21:52.060 really interesting is the standard deviation for like ratings. Like, is there less variance or more

00:21:57.020 variances? Is this one of these things that people either hate or love, or is it something that like

00:22:01.940 most people agree on? There was one thing that really surprised me on here a lot, actually. And

00:22:08.180 it was that almost no women like this. And it was, he doesn't care that much if you come or not,

00:22:17.580 which is interesting because I've actually heard the opposite from women or in a lot of

00:22:22.040 sources that I knew, which is that women don't like when a guy is over-focused on whether or not 0.84

00:22:26.420 she came. Now, of course, in the, also in the negative camp is like thinking you came when you

00:22:31.180 didn't came, asking you if you came, if you didn't come. So it's basically like, he needs to make you

00:22:35.740 come, but not be concerned about it. But it was really fascinating to me. I was wondering if you had

00:22:42.720 thoughts on that. Like, is this something you expected when you were doing this or?

00:22:46.280 I was also pretty surprised by this result, but I guess it like makes sense if you think about it.

00:22:50.100 Like, I have another one in there that's like, he's disappointed if you don't come. And like,

00:22:54.260 people are much more split on this. So it's like a weird thing where he has to care. And, but like,

00:23:00.560 he can't, you're right. He has to like thread the needle. My guess is that women don't want to feel 0.99

00:23:03.780 pressured. Like, oh shit. Like, I, I don't want to feel like I need to come. Like, but they want him 1.00

00:23:09.880 to care a little bit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, okay. So I'm trying to think what

00:23:14.900 are some of the ones that are the most she likes it, but men always never do it. One that's a real

00:23:19.660 outlier here is he wants to role play non-consent. Our, one of our other videos was used on non-consent

00:23:26.220 parties. So this, if we speak of female, male arbitrage, this is a huge area of arbitrage. Women like 1.00

00:23:33.780 non-confit more than men do it. Yeah, absolutely. This is, I mean, this is one of the most, 0.73

00:23:39.820 the things that appears in my data, like regardless of the study I do or what I'm measuring,

00:23:44.040 like women wanting to submit more than men want to dominate is just basically across the board. 1.00

00:23:49.380 And again, like we were saying, like in like recently that like sadism tends to be one of

00:23:54.360 the subclasses in which this is pronounced, but it's pronounced all over. I think, and it should make

00:23:59.800 sense. Like men are like afraid of being dominant and like maybe men legitimately aren't

00:24:03.500 dominant, which is a kind of weird topic in itself. But yeah, absolutely. Women way more 1.00

00:24:08.340 into that weird topic. Maybe men aren't dominant. What have you seen in this area?

00:24:13.800 Well, like what are your thoughts? Well, I mean, so this is one of the very,

00:24:17.520 very early things that got me into sex research. I was actually listening to Jeffrey Miller give a talk

00:24:22.500 on childhood. By the way, I really, we haven't had him on the podcast. I'm gonna make a note.

00:24:28.280 Continue. Yeah, he's great. But this is, I met him back in 2018 when he was, I was living in New York

00:24:34.400 and he was there and he was like giving a little talk to the rationalists, I think. And I remember

00:24:38.620 being like, whoa, he's, I asked him, you know, why are more men dominant than women are submissive? 0.97

00:24:43.560 And he like, he didn't really know, which makes sense because nobody fucking knows. It turns out 0.95

00:24:47.800 this has been like one of the biggest focuses in my research since then. And like, there's various theories,

00:24:52.480 but I don't have a good sense of why. Like one, it's like maybe it's a testosterone thing and

00:24:56.900 testosterone levels are dropping. So everybody's getting more submissive. Maybe. Maybe it's like

00:25:01.420 the game. I can give you an answer. I know the answer. Yeah. No. I know. I actually do know the

00:25:07.380 answer. I can give you the answer. Okay. Look at the genetic data from the agricultural transition

00:25:13.840 period in human history. So this is like right when we were transitioning to an agricultural society in

00:25:19.080 the early agricultural period, 14 women would have children for every one man that would have 1.00

00:25:23.780 children. So you didn't need this to appear at the same rate across men. For some men, it was about

00:25:29.660 just not dying and having one or two kids. Whereas for the dominant chieftains, women would 1.00

00:25:35.860 conglomerate toward them. So you don't need men and women to perfectly match. Men need to either be super 0.90

00:25:44.520 dominant when they're in the chieftain or king role or be submissive and knightly to the, to the extent

00:25:50.400 that they are able to follow a chieftain or king, which is a different psychological subset.

00:25:55.100 I, yeah, I think that this is a theory. I think this is related to my, my gay uncle theory where some

00:25:59.540 men sort of self-selected out because of like fewer men reproduced than women. Although I hadn't tied

00:26:05.640 it specifically to the concept of like the chieftain thing, but I'm not totally convinced about this

00:26:10.440 though. Tell me what you think is bad about this theory. I mean, 14 women were breeding for every

00:26:15.820 man. That's 14 women to one man. That's what was happening on average. That means that many men 0.56

00:26:20.280 had 30 wives. Right. But like, like, could we not say something like, oh, say the dominant man

00:26:27.920 reproduces at like a much higher rate. The dominant genes get spread or, but like, maybe there's some,

00:26:33.360 some mitigating factor. Some of the men have his genes like are deliberately are not competing. Like

00:26:39.340 why waste resources on them at all? Like they have to have some sort of comparative advantage.

00:26:43.060 And it seems weird to not like be spending all of the genes on the thing that has the max advantage.

00:26:47.620 Like, like things tend to be just really competitive in that way. And similar to like,

00:26:51.460 why, like, I think the gay uncle, like literally the gay uncle theory part is bad because like a gay, 1.00

00:26:56.320 like why would you spend genes on having a gay man? Like the selfish gene theory, like those genes, 0.99

00:27:00.660 there's no such good of the group kind of thing. I don't know. I'm not really expressing myself

00:27:04.440 the gay uncle theory. I'm sorry. I don't think the gay uncle theory split it out here. First of all,

00:27:08.280 what you said was really smart. I like it. And I'm probably wrong. You convinced me I'm probably

00:27:12.360 wrong there. Okay. Gay uncle theory. I don't know. I'm just saying you're not necessarily right. 1.00

00:27:16.520 I'm saying, I don't know. It's not enough information. Gay uncle theory is the theory that 1.00

00:27:20.440 gay men have, either they invest in childcare for their siblings in a way that increases the number 0.99

00:27:27.800 of kids they can have, or they have siblings of gay men who have kids, particularly women have

00:27:35.240 female offspring that are more feminine than they otherwise would be. They're the two iterations of 0.99

00:27:40.420 the gay uncle theory. The problem is, is you would just need to have so many extra kids to offset the 0.57

00:27:45.820 kids the gay uncle is having. It doesn't make sense. Also, it doesn't make sense because you see 1.00

00:27:50.280 similar rates of gay populations in animal species where you have no parental care, mammal species 0.52

00:27:55.960 specifically. These are my two arguments. Thank you. That's the, I, this is, I didn't

00:28:02.040 actually know that. And it's, I like that you're strengthening my argument though.

00:28:05.940 Yeah. Well, I mean, so people don't often consider if, if I would have two kids, like, okay, suppose

00:28:12.160 I'm supposed to have four kids and my gay uncle's supposed to have four kids, but he decides to have

00:28:17.360 no kids and we still need to be like genetically successful as a family. Then I need to double the

00:28:22.340 number of kids I'm having. Like, that's really hard. If you look at my family, historically,

00:28:26.560 I have my family's birth records. If I go great grandfather and back for like every person for

00:28:32.940 like four generations, we had 12 kids each. A gay uncle was not going to double the 12 kids. 1.00

00:28:38.780 Yeah. That's, that's a good point. Yeah. So, I mean, like there might be like maybe roundaboutly 0.96

00:28:46.600 something to the gay uncle theory, but I find it kind of implausible. And for that reason, 0.86

00:28:51.540 I'm like less swayed by thoughts that like maybe men's like are self-selecting out of the gene pool

00:28:56.060 a little bit by being submissive. I'm like, why would that be beneficial at all? My guess is it's

00:29:00.480 more likely some sort of like weird anomaly or like a change in, in testosterone levels or something,

00:29:05.880 but I don't know. Very interesting. Okay. I want to see if any other, other things here

00:29:11.840 strike me as interesting. Oh, here's one. So, so the, he wants to role-play non-consent. Like that

00:29:17.820 was a controversial one, right? One that women really like that not many men ask for is you edge

00:29:25.480 him and he edges you. Yeah. I was really surprised by that one. Edging in women is popular, but not 0.97

00:29:33.680 in men. Yeah. I don't know what that, I don't even know. I'm not really into edging personally. So

00:29:41.120 it's like hard for me to develop. I've met someone who told me they were into edging,

00:29:45.080 but apparently men don't ask this enough. So yeah. To be fair in this survey, the, I actually

00:29:52.900 didn't use identical phrasings for both of the edging. So it's possible that there's some artifact

00:29:56.820 making like the gender thing different, but the over the absolute location of them are correct.

00:30:01.400 Um, but yeah, I don't know. Here's one that almost all women are into or a lot of women are into,

00:30:09.420 but like guys don't realize what they're into. He's experimental suggesting unusual things,

00:30:16.400 or he asks you to try an unusual, but inoffensive fetish. So knowing your inoffensive fetishes as a

00:30:23.460 guy is actually pretty safe with women. Even if there was one that was like, it even showed, 0.99

00:30:28.940 even if you're not interested in it, I can't remember what that, like, but that was the

00:30:33.240 word you used. I think that might be the unusual, but inoffensive fetish one, I think.

00:30:38.500 Okay. I can't remember. Another one that's actually pretty common from,

00:30:43.380 I think it surprised a lot of people is he's aroused by your pain.

00:30:48.240 That not a lot of men are. Yeah. Yeah. This is a sadism gap. Men just don't like hurting women that

00:30:54.720 much, which is so funny because like a lot of like the anti-porn feminist stuff is like, 1.00

00:30:58.800 oh, porn is corrupting men to make them like more brutal and rough with women. I'm like,

00:31:03.320 porn is accurately updating men. Excuse me.

00:31:07.400 It's so funny you say this. So we wanted to do an episode and this is what actually encouraged,

00:31:12.360 one of the things that encouraged us to reach out to you is I wanted to do a,

00:31:15.640 the data versus Mary Harrington. I like Mary Harrington. I've met her. We've done interviews

00:31:20.280 with her. She's a nice person, but she will go out and say things like men like choking women 1.00

00:31:26.100 because they watch porn. And this means they hate women or like, they look down on women. I'm like, 0.88

00:31:31.320 no women like being choked and not enough damn men are choking them. That's what the data says. 0.99

00:31:39.580 Yep. Absolutely. This is like one of the most robust findings around sex research is that women 0.77

00:31:44.780 desperately want men to do this more. Although to be clear, this is like pretty bimodal for women. 1.00

00:31:48.580 So like, this is like the hurt me, please me spectrums that we have been talking about. Like,

00:31:54.220 like, this might be why we're seeing such like a pushback publicly is because like women either 1.00

00:31:58.520 really like being choked and hurt or they fucking hate it. And so you probably have women who fucking 0.99

00:32:02.840 hate it, who are like, what the hell porn is teaching men to do things to me that I don't want 0.99

00:32:07.280 them to do. And they sort of typical mind assume all of the other women are the same. Whereas like, 1.00

00:32:11.380 if things were like more, you know, normal distribution, maybe that those are less polarizing for the

00:32:15.880 discourse. Yeah, no, I think that's really powerful. And I think that that's where we

00:32:20.160 need to move. Like if you're having the honest discourse, which is what we try to do on this

00:32:23.380 podcast, the truth is, is that this is a bimodal thing. You need to establish before you sleep with 0.93

00:32:29.060 someone, whether or not this is something that they're interested in. Know that many more women 0.87

00:32:34.580 who are interested in this have their partners actually doing it with them. But there is a portion

00:32:38.700 of women who sleep with men who are trained to do this by the many women they're sleeping with,

00:32:43.700 because on average, like half of women are into this. And then they do it with this one woman who

00:32:48.020 like hates it, like it's a very bimodal. And they're like, Oh my God, how could you have done 1.00

00:32:51.820 that to me? Do you hate me? Do you hate women? Are you a monster? Did you learn this from porn? And

00:32:56.300 it's like, no, I learned it from my ex. She told me she liked it. I don't know.

00:33:01.800 Yep. Yep, absolutely.

00:33:05.820 Although I don't, I don't know. I mean, the data might say it's bimodal. My experience is it's like 80%

00:33:11.980 of women. Well, it might be some selection effect. So like I have two boyfriends right 0.98

00:33:16.620 now. One of the boyfriends is like, Hmm, it sure seems like almost every woman I have sex with wants 0.74

00:33:20.900 me to hurt her. That's interesting. I have my other boyfriend. It's like, I just have never really come 0.98

00:33:26.120 across women who want rough sex. And I'm just like, what? And I don't need to know who they are. I want 1.00

00:33:33.880 to know the personality profile. How are they attracting these two different categories?

00:33:37.220 Yeah, it's, it's, it's so they both have extremely high body count. So it's not like there's something

00:33:43.440 that they're putting out that's attracting different women. So I'm saying, I think you might be putting

00:33:47.280 out the like, somehow, I don't know. But like, it's interesting, because both of them are quite

00:33:52.160 traditionally male and like dominant feeling. They're both like, I'm a man who will ravish you,

00:33:57.760 but in different ways. I think one of them's a lot sweeter.

00:34:00.980 Is the one who attracts the women who don't want that sweeter?

00:34:03.840 No. No. Oh, okay. So here's the, here's the hypothesis.

00:34:09.860 Oh, sorry. I don't want. Yes. Sorry. I was confused by your, the one who, we don't want

00:34:14.080 to attract the women who want to be hurt. Sweet guy attracts vanilla girls. Though to be 0.87

00:34:18.760 fair, he's still quite, I sweet feels like it's not really summing it up. He's much more

00:34:23.340 emotive. He's like very emotional, like he sinks into his body, embodied, like very like.

00:34:28.000 Is this the one I met? Cause he seemed very sweet to me.

00:34:30.120 Which one did you, I thought, did you not meet both of?

00:34:33.760 Oh, I thought, I don't know. I, I, I, the number one main squeeze guy who I've referenced before.

00:34:38.980 Oh yeah. That was the, that was the dark.

00:34:41.740 Well, he, he, he, he's definitely more of the, he attracts women who are more like,

00:34:45.380 so brutally submissive.

00:34:46.720 No, we're not naming anyone. We're not. Okay. Okay. Okay.

00:34:49.120 No. Okay.

00:34:49.520 He would like to be named to be clear.

00:34:51.120 I wasn't.

00:34:51.960 He enjoys the attention.

00:34:53.580 Oh yeah. You have a post about like, um, I really want this guy right now or something.

00:34:59.340 And like talking about your relationship is fun. I like it.

00:35:03.240 Yeah. It's, it's been going well. He, he likes it when I talk about him because he was the one

00:35:08.440 that wrote me like the, you're not that pretty card. I don't know if you saw this at all.

00:35:11.800 I love that post continue, but that was in private Kayla room, right?

00:35:17.780 In, I posted this on Twitter and my file and people started writing.

00:35:21.140 This is one of the things that people wrote articles about.

00:35:23.040 Sorry. I never know what's from the private chat and what's not.

00:35:25.940 Yeah. It's okay.

00:35:27.600 Okay. Talk about this. This is a good one.

00:35:31.220 Yeah. So he wrote, he told me I wasn't that pretty. It was in context. It made more sense

00:35:35.320 because I was like, I think everybody's gaslighting me about how hot I am.

00:35:38.480 They're saying I'm pretty. I don't think I'm that pretty. And he was like,

00:35:40.700 yeah, you're not that pretty. I was like, my poor heart. Anyway,

00:35:43.620 he wrote me a card saying, I'm sorry, because it was very sweet moment that he

00:35:46.920 ruined by saying that. I'm glad he did anyway. And then I posted on Twitter,

00:35:50.340 it went viral. And then at the end of the viral tweet, I was like,

00:35:54.060 if anybody wants to apply to have sex with him, here's a, 0.60

00:35:57.060 here's a form you can fill out. 0.94

00:35:59.200 Did you talk about how good he was in bed?

00:36:01.700 He fair, he's, this is, he can call me not that pretty all day. Okay.

00:36:05.800 His dick is fire. So. 1.00

00:36:07.520 Which is interesting. So the, the form actually got quite a lot of responses.

00:36:12.980 I think he had 150 women fill it out and he has had sex with a lot of them at

00:36:16.960 this point, which is interesting that something like that attracts so many 0.52

00:36:20.560 women. Like my guess is that they were seeing him sort of neg me in a sense.

00:36:24.860 And like, I'm like relatively like in this context, high status, right.

00:36:28.620 Cause I'm like, I have a lot of Twitter followers or whatever.

00:36:30.260 And so they were perceiving him like, Oh, 0.72

00:36:34.120 if I can have sex with this guy, this sort of means that I'm special. 0.99

00:36:37.180 About having sex with him. You have had sex with lots of people. 1.00

00:36:41.260 When I was younger, I had a high body count,

00:36:43.660 but one of the primary mechanisms that serves girls for me was other girls 0.95

00:36:47.840 opinions of sleeping with me.

00:36:49.900 One girl would tell all her friends, one, you can sleep with him. 0.99

00:36:53.780 He's safe. And he's like fun in these ways.

00:36:56.740 And I think that guys underestimate it. It's so funny.

00:36:59.440 All these red pillars are out there like trying to be like,

00:37:02.440 and it's not like I identify as a red pillar to some extent.

00:37:04.960 I think they see some things that are true, but like,

00:37:07.380 they try to be like tough and like in,

00:37:09.960 in cruel towards women in a way sometimes. 0.99

00:37:12.360 And it's like the easiest way to get women to have sex with you is to have 1.00

00:37:15.600 another woman who they respect saying you should go and have sex with this 1.00

00:37:18.280 guy. Yeah. Oh yeah. Super. That's the girl whisper network. 1.00

00:37:21.660 This is the way reason I originally had sex with this guy actually is because

00:37:25.300 one of my friends who he used to date was like, 0.96

00:37:27.860 I think you might really enjoy sex with him. And I was like, take your, 0.98

00:37:31.000 this is a good vouch. I'll go try it. Sure not to be right.

00:37:34.580 Very Catherine the Great of you.

00:37:37.360 Very what?

00:37:38.640 Well, Catherine the Great used to have a person,

00:37:40.640 I don't know if this is myth,

00:37:41.900 but it's at least heavily canonized myth that Catherine the Great used to

00:37:46.320 have a woman who was supposed to sleep with all of her potential partners 1.00

00:37:49.320 before her to see if they were worth her time.

00:37:51.780 That's so smart. Wait, I should get one of these.

00:37:54.700 Wait, no, I think I did.

00:37:58.520 My, because this partner, he's, 0.99

00:38:00.740 he has another girlfriend who I like quite a lot and she's so super slutty. 1.00

00:38:04.660 So I can just have, and we have very similar sex tastes. 0.99

00:38:07.460 So I can just ask her.

00:38:10.260 I love this.

00:38:12.100 You need an Aayla betting system.

00:38:14.360 He needs a betting system now.

00:38:15.680 Well, I mean with 150 potential applicants here, 0.90

00:38:18.700 this is what you get for sexually pleasing someone like Aayla. 0.98

00:38:21.560 You get it published on Twitter and then a huge pool of applicants coming to you. 0.89

00:38:27.300 Hold on.

00:38:27.740 Actually, I want to,

00:38:28.980 I think when you talk about the sweet guy versus the not sweet guy,

00:38:32.560 contrarianism.

00:38:33.680 I actually think contrarianism might be the difference.

00:38:35.920 Is this,

00:38:36.420 is the guy who is attracting the vanilla girls,

00:38:38.660 not a contrarian?

00:38:39.400 Well, no, it's,

00:38:42.860 it's, well, it depends on what you mean by contrarian.

00:38:45.780 I would say not.

00:38:47.120 Does he like arguing and disagreeing with the mainstream perspective?

00:38:52.000 No, not,

00:38:53.280 not in that way.

00:38:54.520 I think.

00:38:55.380 Oh, okay.

00:38:56.120 But he's very good at holding his ground and not like giving into what women sort of want. 0.99

00:39:01.000 Like he passed a shit test with flying collars kind of thing. 1.00

00:39:03.460 Speaking of shit tests, 1.00

00:39:07.920 because people, 1.00

00:39:08.680 okay, 0.99

00:39:08.840 first I'll define a shit test for people who don't know what they are. 0.99

00:39:11.360 It's a theory was in the red pill community that women will test you for your dominance 1.00

00:39:14.940 to be like,

00:39:16.420 Hey,

00:39:16.760 you,

00:39:17.320 you know,

00:39:17.500 whatever.

00:39:17.960 Right.

00:39:19.360 When I was dating around,

00:39:20.740 like in sleeping around, 0.98

00:39:22.000 I never got shit tests. 0.99

00:39:23.340 I've gotten like maybe two shit tests in my entire life. 1.00

00:39:25.700 I bet you got shit tests. 1.00

00:39:27.260 I bet you got shit tested though. 1.00

00:39:29.900 You think I'm just too, 1.00

00:39:30.900 I'm too blind to notice that they were shit testing me. 0.99

00:39:34.480 I was just like, 0.99

00:39:34.780 because like the way that red pillars talk about shit tests are usually extremely obvious. 0.98

00:39:39.420 Like the girl will like insult you and see if you falter or she'll like ask you to hold 0.98

00:39:43.340 her purse is the classic example. 0.98

00:39:44.800 But I think the vast majority of shit tests are significantly subtler and they're more like, 0.98

00:39:49.280 like asking you a question to see if you try to like say a response that feels like 0.99

00:39:53.340 you're trying to make her happy,

00:39:54.780 like stuff like that.

00:39:56.120 Oh,

00:39:56.700 for reference,

00:39:59.540 by the way,

00:39:59.840 if a woman ever asked me to hold her purse, 0.99

00:40:01.480 I wouldn't take that as a shit test. 0.99

00:40:02.580 I would hold her purse. 0.99

00:40:03.740 Like,

00:40:03.880 yeah,

00:40:04.060 I know. 0.98

00:40:05.460 It's only really a shit test in like trad culture or something. 0.99

00:40:09.180 It's not a shit test. 0.99

00:40:10.120 They're just like inconsiderate and they think they're being shit tested. 0.99

00:40:13.140 But I love what you're saying. 0.99

00:40:14.180 You're probably right there. 0.95

00:40:15.300 Is they would ask me stuff or maybe the reason they didn't shit test me is it was obvious 0.75

00:40:19.020 I didn't care what they like mainstream society thought or what their opinion was. 0.91

00:40:23.120 And I think that what the test might be deployed for is men who are trying to get a woman to 0.99

00:40:29.080 sleep with them by pretending to mirror their belief system.

00:40:32.500 Yeah.

00:40:33.560 Yeah,

00:40:33.960 very much.

00:40:35.000 I think this is very close to the sex.

00:40:36.540 Did you read the sex is a status game post that I wrote?

00:40:39.640 I liked it.

00:40:40.540 Okay.

00:40:41.040 Tell me,

00:40:41.540 tell me more about the reference here.

00:40:44.260 But I wrote a post.

00:40:44.940 So this is,

00:40:45.540 it is sort of like a, 0.98

00:40:46.740 I think shit tests are a subcategory. 0.92

00:40:48.080 It's one of the tabs I have open on my screen right now, 0.98

00:40:49.860 but continue.

00:40:50.960 Yeah.

00:40:51.620 It's not a huge deal,

00:40:52.640 but it's just,

00:40:53.000 just describing like the ways that we do status games in interactions and how this

00:40:56.780 is like very prevalent.

00:40:57.940 And it's a lot of people have like a really negative connotation with the concept of

00:41:00.880 status,

00:41:01.220 but it doesn't have to be often.

00:41:02.620 It's very like game-like and often it's very like playful.

00:41:05.560 Like when you're flirting with somebody,

00:41:06.820 this often involves a lot of status play.

00:41:09.140 And so like I break down videos of like analyzing how like the status play is

00:41:12.800 happening and like romantic interactions or whatever. 0.95

00:41:14.940 But I think that shit tests are like one subcategory of this. 0.98

00:41:17.360 Like you want to, 0.99

00:41:18.240 you're testing the guy to see if he can like not be broken underneath your will or

00:41:24.040 something.

00:41:25.160 It's like a strong way of putting it,

00:41:26.920 but it's much more subtler.

00:41:28.500 It's something like,

00:41:28.980 is this guy,

00:41:30.200 am I seeing who this guy is?

00:41:31.800 Or am I seeing like a version of this guy who's like trying to warp himself

00:41:35.140 into something to get into my pants?

00:41:37.520 So guys might not understand how important this is for women. 1.00

00:41:41.120 Like this is not an idle thing.

00:41:42.640 So when I've been giving women like dating and sex advice and stuff like that,

00:41:45.740 they're like, how do I tell if a guy's just telling me what I want to hear,

00:41:49.700 or if he is actually being honest to who he is,

00:41:52.820 because I'm looking for either a long-term partner or something like that.

00:41:56.140 Right.

00:41:56.500 And a lot of guys learn,

00:41:57.860 they can just tell them what they want to hear to get the woman to sleep with 1.00

00:42:00.580 them.

00:42:01.060 There is a reason for women to be vetting for this, 1.00

00:42:04.400 but I think that there's a certain type of guy.

00:42:06.140 I might be an example of this.

00:42:07.660 Who's just so obviously not telling people what they want to hear that they

00:42:11.080 don't need to test it that much.

00:42:13.480 Yeah.

00:42:15.040 Yeah.

00:42:15.520 I mean,

00:42:15.720 that's probably what's going on.

00:42:16.960 They're like,

00:42:17.320 Oh, 0.99

00:42:17.520 this guy doesn't give a shit what I think about him. 0.99

00:42:19.520 Okay. 0.99

00:42:20.700 Yeah.

00:42:21.000 He's doing whatever he feels like.

00:42:22.720 Anyway,

00:42:23.260 I love this.

00:42:24.500 This is fun.

00:42:25.480 I,

00:42:25.820 I,

00:42:26.500 I hate,

00:42:27.140 so I love that.

00:42:28.080 I have a podcast now that I have a reason to have you on to talk with me

00:42:31.060 because I'm the type of person who like,

00:42:32.620 doesn't reach out to talk with my friends unless there's some immediate

00:42:35.200 utility to me.

00:42:36.040 I'm like,

00:42:37.920 okay,

00:42:38.100 what's the advantage of talking to this individual right now,

00:42:41.280 which is so horrible.

00:42:42.200 I'm a sociopath in that way, 0.50

00:42:43.300 I guess,

00:42:44.000 but I consider you a good friend.

00:42:45.620 And so I'm glad that I have this excuse to chat with you in a way that

00:42:49.540 potentially advances most of our interests and to advance her interests, 1.00

00:42:53.520 you need to go.

00:42:54.480 And if you want to learn how to be good in bed for your long-term partner,

00:42:57.860 or if you're like,

00:42:58.600 Oh,

00:42:58.700 I'm not sure if this weird thing I'm into is actually normal to be into

00:43:01.780 learn if you're actually a freaky, 0.99

00:43:04.440 pathetic weirdo, 1.00

00:43:05.640 or if you're, 1.00

00:43:07.060 you're not,

00:43:07.900 but you've got to get behind the paywall.

00:43:09.680 I'm not giving you the paywall stuff.

00:43:11.400 I actually thought like,

00:43:12.480 after I read your article,

00:43:13.320 I was like,

00:43:13.560 this would be a good solo episode and I can put it on the screen.

00:43:16.540 I'm like,

00:43:16.780 I'm not going to do that.

00:43:17.900 You got to get you a subscriber.

00:43:19.480 I decided to try to earn money.

00:43:22.060 Cause I've been doing free research publishing and quite a lot of work for

00:43:25.180 years.

00:43:25.500 I'm like,

00:43:25.780 you know what?

00:43:26.180 Maybe I should try and get a little bit of pay.

00:43:28.820 So I'm paywalling some of it now.

00:43:30.880 What was the point of sleeping with all these people?

00:43:35.860 If you weren't doing it to collect data so that now you can turn around and

00:43:40.980 use it on the public and be like,

00:43:43.060 Hey,

00:43:43.600 do you want somebody who objectively has more data on sleeping with people

00:43:47.520 than maybe all,

00:43:50.220 but a hundred thousand people in human history.

00:43:52.540 It's like her and Genghis Khan here. 0.97

00:43:54.920 People,

00:43:55.420 you're not going to get better advice.

00:43:58.320 Oh,

00:43:58.880 thanks.

00:44:00.420 It's a great.

00:44:02.500 No,

00:44:02.980 it's,

00:44:03.280 it's true.

00:44:03.880 I think it's like,

00:44:04.860 objectively,

00:44:05.500 you probably know more about sex and is one of the reasons why your 0.95

00:44:08.720 research is good.

00:44:09.600 You also,

00:44:10.160 if you watch the first interview I did with her in the series,

00:44:12.160 so I did one before,

00:44:13.000 before doing this one. 0.56

00:44:14.440 You're so obviously like autistic-y. 0.99

00:44:17.000 You're so stilted when like you start conversations and stuff like that.

00:44:20.820 Like you're just interested in the data and you're like,

00:44:22.860 yes,

00:44:23.140 that data is true.

00:44:24.520 That is what I found in my study.

00:44:26.120 It was interesting.

00:44:30.920 What I'm saying is people think,

00:44:34.320 they think,

00:44:34.940 oh, 0.96

00:44:35.040 this woman's a quote unquote sex worker or whatever. 1.00

00:44:37.660 That means that she must be like a charismatic type woman. 1.00

00:44:42.100 And you are not a charismatic type woman. 1.00

00:44:45.340 I can't occasionally be good at role-playing it.

00:44:47.340 I feel like I've learned to like step into like the hot woman character.

00:44:50.500 Look about this.

00:44:51.580 How do you role-play a charismatic feminine woman? 0.99

00:44:55.200 Like what are you embodying when you do that?

00:44:57.420 I have this video on YouTube,

00:44:58.580 which is like a guide to being seductive or something where I go through all

00:45:02.420 of like the concrete small shifts to my body language that I make in order

00:45:05.700 to like become a woman that men find attractive.

00:45:08.500 But I just do cam girl.

00:45:09.980 Huh?

00:45:12.280 I'm saying,

00:45:12.980 check out this video.

00:45:13.720 That's what I'm telling the audience.

00:45:14.600 I continue.

00:45:14.940 Cause with cam girling, 0.95

00:45:17.420 it's like,

00:45:17.860 you see you live stream,

00:45:19.560 people watch you and they tip you.

00:45:20.780 And so you get like money based on the,

00:45:22.200 how much you can,

00:45:22.900 how hot you can be and generate their money.

00:45:25.060 And so I did this over time and you get very rapid feedback.

00:45:28.180 Like people are either giving you money or they're not.

00:45:29.940 And like your average money earning like affects your rankings.

00:45:33.260 So you have like really clear in like feedback about like the kinds of

00:45:37.780 things that you're doing that leads to people giving you more money.

00:45:40.600 And over time I did this for like five or six years over time.

00:45:44.060 I figured out that like,

00:45:44.980 Oh,

00:45:45.140 different body language and different ways I use my voice generates more

00:45:47.800 tips.

00:45:48.080 And so this is like brute force,

00:45:49.680 like iteration led to being able to be like a hot woman. 1.00

00:45:54.620 It's not just brute force iteration.

00:45:56.640 I've watched interviews with you where you're like,

00:45:58.720 I looked up the top videos in the camming site and stuff like that.

00:46:02.380 I tried to develop patterns in the statistics of these videos.

00:46:05.720 I tried to emulate them.

00:46:08.040 Yeah.

00:46:08.620 I had like instructions on the wall behind me for like different body

00:46:12.080 language things that I would look and like,

00:46:13.500 remember to keep doing.

00:46:14.980 Yeah.

00:46:15.820 Guys are not that aroused by like autist girl. 1.00

00:46:18.780 Guys are aroused by like horny girl. 1.00

00:46:20.600 And so you have to like signal sexual arousal and,

00:46:23.120 and availability and vulnerability pretty,

00:46:25.540 pretty hard.

00:46:26.060 What is the number one advice you'd give to a girl who was

00:46:28.620 on a date who didn't know how to signal this?

00:46:32.480 I mean,

00:46:33.000 if she's like me,

00:46:33.700 I know what advice to give,

00:46:34.980 but like people are not sexy.

00:46:37.120 My audience is disproportionately severely autistic.

00:46:46.360 I promise you.

00:46:47.500 You said that it's like,

00:46:48.280 you don't understand how autistic they are.

00:46:51.860 You do not understand.

00:46:53.100 These people are little Simone's.

00:46:55.440 Imagine you're giving advice to Simone.

00:46:57.060 I don't know if she's like you,

00:46:58.280 but she has an aspect of you in that regard.

00:47:03.480 Yeah.

00:47:03.920 This is true.

00:47:05.360 I don't know.

00:47:05.780 Maybe like talk slower and use simpler language.

00:47:10.620 Don't use fake words and speak slow.

00:47:13.660 Literally. 1.00

00:47:14.060 Talk to a man like they're little dumb animals. 1.00

00:47:16.580 They will think that you are a little dumb animal and that is what they want to believe. 1.00

00:47:22.040 You need to simplify your language. 0.99

00:47:24.840 You need to.

00:47:25.440 I love it.

00:47:26.300 I love it.

00:47:26.920 I actually wonder if that's something I could,

00:47:29.160 I couldn't do that.

00:47:29.900 If I was told to do that,

00:47:30.780 I'd never be able to.

00:47:32.240 Oh gosh,

00:47:32.740 there was something else I wanted to ask you that I was really excited about in regards to.

00:47:37.480 I forget.

00:47:38.560 A really fun one might be to do like a interview version of like a how do you get escorts thing.

00:47:45.560 I love,

00:47:45.980 she did a full thing on how to actually,

00:47:48.460 like what the process of hiring an escort and vetting an escort is like.

00:47:51.600 And I would never do this,

00:47:53.740 but it was fascinating to read.

00:47:57.520 And I suspect.

00:47:58.420 Yeah,

00:47:58.600 that was my hope.

00:47:59.340 It was fascinating cross-culturally.

00:48:00.700 Because when I was in Korea,

00:48:03.880 the process of hiring an escort was different.

00:48:07.800 Oh,

00:48:08.900 was it really?

00:48:10.180 I don't know.

00:48:11.120 I just know that businessmen,

00:48:12.520 like they would ask me like other VCs and stuff like that.

00:48:15.740 They'd be like,

00:48:16.140 do you want to go hang out with an escort tonight?

00:48:17.960 Like in the US, 0.75

00:48:18.860 this doesn't happen as much,

00:48:21.080 but in Korea,

00:48:21.840 this is pretty normal.

00:48:22.660 I was like,

00:48:23.020 I'm married.

00:48:23.540 And they're like,

00:48:24.580 what does that have to do is anything?

00:48:26.780 Yeah.

00:48:27.620 We're getting an escort.

00:48:29.040 We're not marrying her.

00:48:30.700 Yeah.

00:48:31.000 I think the cultural attitude towards escorts was so different over there.

00:48:34.600 Have you,

00:48:35.200 have you done anything in Japan or Korea or anything like that?

00:48:39.640 No.

00:48:41.460 That might be an interesting market.

00:48:45.860 Yeah.

00:48:46.400 I mean,

00:48:46.820 I don't,

00:48:47.680 I have no idea where to start there,

00:48:49.220 but we could try.

00:48:50.560 We have to relearn the whole game.

00:48:52.060 I think.

00:48:53.100 No,

00:48:53.320 no,

00:48:53.440 no.

00:48:53.580 I wouldn't relearn the whole game.

00:48:54.900 This is what I do.

00:48:55.720 Okay.

00:48:56.140 So I'm just business advice here.

00:48:58.000 Go to Japan and Korea. 0.98

00:48:59.040 Find out who the number one escort or sexual influencer is in both of those cultures.

00:49:04.360 Whoever the individual is,

00:49:05.480 they will almost certainly know who you are or be likely to reply to you.

00:49:10.240 Do cross promotion with them.

00:49:12.620 I E have them write something for your blog about their culture,

00:49:16.060 sexual practices,

00:49:16.860 and then do an episode with them on their podcast or anything like that.

00:49:21.000 And you will both draw an audience that neither of you has full access to right now.

00:49:27.460 That's actually a pretty good idea.

00:49:30.660 Here's,

00:49:31.080 here's another one.

00:49:31.780 I want to hear your thoughts on.

00:49:32.560 I remembered what I wanted to hear.

00:49:33.580 So Simone and I did an episode on that whole,

00:49:35.680 you know,

00:49:36.380 yum,

00:49:36.620 yum,

00:49:36.800 yum trend and stuff like that.

00:49:38.660 Like idol sexualization.

00:49:41.140 You know,

00:49:41.740 the one I'm talking about,

00:49:42.480 right?

00:49:43.420 What do you think going on there?

00:49:45.480 And what are your thoughts on that?

00:49:46.900 As somebody who like studies what people like.

00:49:50.760 I don't,

00:49:51.380 well,

00:49:51.560 I know that I kept watching it.

00:49:53.880 I don't know if you had the same impact on you,

00:49:55.880 but like everybody's talking about,

00:49:56.840 I kept being on my timeline.

00:49:57.840 And I noticed that every time the video came on my timeline,

00:50:00.140 I just wanted to watch it again.

00:50:02.980 And I'm like,

00:50:03.700 there's must be something,

00:50:04.680 there's something in it that's like hitting my brain that like,

00:50:06.720 must be also hitting other people's brains.

00:50:09.060 It was difficult for me to tell.

00:50:10.820 Yeah.

00:50:14.720 I don't think it's necessarily sexual,

00:50:16.280 although you just add a sex drive on top of it and it might amplify it.

00:50:19.420 Yeah.

00:50:20.920 Like a lot of sexual things are kind of like that.

00:50:23.200 For people who want that,

00:50:24.360 we need a meme of when Simone was pretending to do it.

00:50:27.400 She did a very good job.

00:50:28.300 Was she pretending to do it?

00:50:29.940 Yeah.

00:50:30.340 I'd love to do that.

00:50:31.920 She's like,

00:50:32.400 it kind of reminds me of like,

00:50:37.320 like Pixar characters,

00:50:38.660 Pixar characters,

00:50:39.100 you take like the most expressive features and you blow it up.

00:50:41.960 And sometimes on TikTok people like replicate,

00:50:44.180 you know,

00:50:44.520 Pixar animation style.

00:50:45.880 Well,

00:50:45.940 they'll like,

00:50:46.340 they'll like do a thing and,

00:50:48.060 you know,

00:50:48.280 talk as though they're an animated character and everything is like more

00:50:51.000 exaggerated and like more caricatury.

00:50:53.140 And this is very much sort of what she was doing.

00:50:55.080 Like,

00:50:55.280 I think if I remember correctly,

00:50:56.360 she had like makeup that emphasized like more neon, 0.95

00:50:59.360 neotenous or whatever.

00:51:00.380 And then had the very caricature,

00:51:01.680 like animated kind of expressions.

00:51:03.960 And these would also remind me of something that we were talking about on

00:51:07.100 this, 1.00

00:51:07.300 which is that people think that these people are like idiots who are doing 1.00

00:51:10.080 this or something like that. 1.00

00:51:11.300 These women, 1.00

00:51:12.080 like one of the main ones who did this,

00:51:13.560 there were two main ones,

00:51:14.340 has a kid.

00:51:16.460 She's trying to provide for the kid. 0.99

00:51:18.600 This is all about like long-term career stuff.

00:51:21.840 Like if you watch her videos,

00:51:23.260 like analyzing how she caught this wave,

00:51:26.060 how she exploited this wave,

00:51:27.740 it's all very much career focused.

00:51:30.280 And that is not something to grade her for.

00:51:32.360 You know,

00:51:32.640 she's doing this to support a kid and give them a good life. 1.00

00:51:35.820 Oh yeah.

00:51:36.480 There's no like,

00:51:37.880 yeah.

00:51:38.720 She,

00:51:39.260 when people do this, 1.00

00:51:40.180 they look dumb, 1.00

00:51:41.040 which is maybe why people think they are dumb, 1.00

00:51:42.680 but like, 0.98

00:51:43.540 in order to be on that sort of wave early,

00:51:46.000 you have to have some level of like intelligence and boldness.

00:51:49.440 It's like really hard to be on the front wave of a viral thing and like,

00:51:53.200 not be that smart.

00:51:54.680 Yeah.

00:51:55.260 She's probably like above average IQ. 1.00

00:51:57.920 Yeah.

00:51:58.420 Well,

00:51:58.620 I don't want to hold you forever.

00:51:59.680 I know this was the end of this.

00:52:00.780 I'm just having fun talking to you now at this point.

00:52:02.500 I'm just like,

00:52:02.900 Oh,

00:52:03.100 I'm chatting with Ayla.

00:52:04.220 Oh,

00:52:05.040 Oh,

00:52:05.360 here's something I could do on the fetish,

00:52:07.440 the fetish one is things that guys do.

00:52:11.260 Okay.

00:52:11.600 Here's something that I guess I shouldn't be that surprised about.

00:52:14.360 Cause everybody tells you this something that guys do a lot that women are not 0.99

00:52:18.480 actually interested in is he focuses primarily on your vagina as opposed to 1.00

00:52:22.220 your clitoris. 1.00

00:52:24.520 Yeah. 0.99

00:52:25.140 And this one is interesting because in one of my updated surveys where this

00:52:29.380 one is just about what men do,

00:52:30.720 but then I had another survey where men predict what women like and which is

00:52:34.600 separate from what they're actually doing. 0.51

00:52:36.480 And men over predicted women's preference for focus on clitoris. 0.87

00:52:39.960 So this is not because men are not aware that women do not like clitoris 0.77

00:52:44.800 stimulation. 0.80

00:52:45.680 They just don't want to as much as women want it. 1.00

00:52:49.260 I'm going to be honest.

00:52:50.520 It's too much effort.

00:52:51.840 I don't,

00:52:52.220 I don't really care.

00:52:56.580 If you're a guy who's getting a lot of,

00:52:58.420 a lot of them just don't.

00:53:00.540 The other one I was surprised about that both men did a lot and women liked

00:53:04.180 a lot because I didn't think either one of these things would be the case

00:53:06.840 is doggy style.

00:53:09.520 Yeah.

00:53:09.920 Doggy style is in an incredibly difficult position to make good in my

00:53:16.240 like experience.

00:53:18.020 Really?

00:53:18.420 Like for you or for her,

00:53:19.540 for both?

00:53:21.140 It might be because I'm a tall guy.

00:53:23.800 Yeah,

00:53:23.980 maybe.

00:53:25.280 I've said like five feet girls with doggy style with a strap on before. 0.99

00:53:28.040 And then you can't really do that much in terms of grabbing or touching

00:53:32.180 other erogenous zones because you know,

00:53:35.240 you're in a position where to do that,

00:53:37.620 you have to put additional weight on her,

00:53:39.360 which I would prefer not to do.

00:53:41.120 And then you,

00:53:42.580 the woman's in a position where you, 1.00

00:53:45.280 you need to align perfectly.

00:53:47.400 Like not all women of all height and all men of all height can doggy 0.95

00:53:51.440 style.

00:53:51.860 You need to have a very tight matchup for that to work for it to be one of

00:53:56.780 the most aligned things that guys do a lot.

00:53:59.280 And women like a lot was very surprising to me. 0.96

00:54:02.820 Yeah.

00:54:03.400 Maybe it was less surprising,

00:54:04.460 but maybe cause I like it more than you like it.

00:54:07.520 Yeah.

00:54:08.000 Yeah.

00:54:08.180 Maybe these logistical problems aren't a problem for you and you're not

00:54:11.040 like,

00:54:11.400 Oh yes.

00:54:12.020 Doggy style is always a logistical nightmare.

00:54:15.700 Well,

00:54:16.100 I mean,

00:54:16.240 it can be,

00:54:16.900 it's definitely like one of the less comfortable,

00:54:19.280 but there's something like it hits like an unusual,

00:54:22.280 like it's like a different kind of feeling,

00:54:24.800 which is really nice.

00:54:25.460 And I think it's a little bit more dehumanizing,

00:54:26.840 which is good.

00:54:27.560 And also from the man's perspective, 1.00

00:54:29.040 you can like more clearly see a penis entering. 1.00

00:54:31.320 So if you were visually stimulated by watching penis. 1.00

00:54:35.040 Oh, 1.00

00:54:35.360 interesting.

00:54:37.160 But what you're watching it entering is undifferentiated from a man

00:54:40.520 often.

00:54:41.040 I'm seeing a woman from the back. 0.99

00:54:46.880 I'm not seeing any of the sexually dimorphic characteristics.

00:54:50.140 I'm not seeing breasts.

00:54:51.380 I'm not seeing a face. 0.75

00:54:54.580 Women don't have as much of that as most women think they do. 1.00

00:54:59.700 Holy shit. 1.00

00:55:01.480 Bird. 1.00

00:55:02.680 Oh gosh.

00:55:03.380 I'm right.

00:55:03.780 Women need to get over themselves. 1.00

00:55:09.240 Okay.

00:55:09.540 I know.

00:55:10.540 Here's a fun thing that you might find fun,

00:55:12.820 which has changed about Simone recently.

00:55:15.300 So Simone recently has changed to long hair. 0.98

00:55:18.300 She's growing out her hair again to have like medium links,

00:55:21.080 long hair.

00:55:22.240 And something that I've noticed is that at different stages of a woman's 1.00

00:55:24.980 life,

00:55:25.360 there's different optimal like look categories.

00:55:28.880 Like when Simone was in this younger category,

00:55:31.640 I really preferred the short hair,

00:55:34.140 which to me was like the Vulcan look.

00:55:36.680 I always loved that look.

00:55:37.680 Or recently we're watching Packers was like early Angelina Jolie.

00:55:41.080 I know why like,

00:55:42.520 I like this short hair look.

00:55:44.120 Right.

00:55:44.500 But it doesn't work for middle-aged women. 1.00

00:55:46.800 And so she needs to change the way she's presenting to be sort of

00:55:50.840 maximally.

00:55:52.460 And it's not just me.

00:55:53.540 It's also for society as well.

00:55:55.000 Like society does not respect short hair,

00:55:57.660 middle-aged women.

00:55:58.580 Short hair is for young women.

00:56:00.860 Like what are your thoughts on other things where like you can change your

00:56:03.780 optimization as you age?

00:56:06.020 I mean,

00:56:06.600 like in general,

00:56:07.540 long hair is more feminine overall.

00:56:09.300 In general,

00:56:09.700 men tend to prefer long hair.

00:56:11.000 It's more associated with youth.

00:56:12.280 So,

00:56:12.380 but it's like,

00:56:12.800 like there's points you can spend.

00:56:14.160 Like there's memes about how like,

00:56:15.900 you know,

00:56:16.200 you're pretty if you can pull off a bald look.

00:56:17.900 And if you're not pretty,

00:56:18.880 you can't afford to cut your hair.

00:56:21.060 And so Simone's like quite pretty. 1.00

00:56:22.480 And so it seems like she's sort of like has a lot of pretty points to

00:56:25.820 spend before it actually starts impacting people's attraction to her,

00:56:29.060 which makes sense that she can pull off short hair. 1.00

00:56:31.620 But in general,

00:56:32.420 you want to maximize this,

00:56:33.600 like these signs of youth as much,

00:56:35.060 as possible once you hit your thirties.

00:56:38.980 Yeah.

00:56:39.520 Well,

00:56:39.740 I mean,

00:56:40.080 you could optimize for different things.

00:56:41.540 Like when you're older and you're still trying to optimize signs of

00:56:44.100 youth,

00:56:44.460 it's pretty bad.

00:56:45.360 Like it doesn't,

00:56:46.000 it doesn't work.

00:56:47.520 And this is actually interesting.

00:56:48.680 And I'd love to see,

00:56:49.560 I suspect that this is the path you're going to go as a sex icon,

00:56:53.200 which is a lot of sex icons sort of refuse to give up the ephemera of

00:56:58.840 youth.

00:56:59.160 You know,

00:56:59.640 this is what Madonna moves. 0.94

00:57:02.160 Who am I thinking of?

00:57:03.480 Yeah.

00:57:03.620 Madonna or Marilyn or Madonna.

00:57:05.760 Yeah.

00:57:06.060 She keeps trying to look young.

00:57:07.320 Like she tries to capture this young look where I actually think that as

00:57:11.200 you're aging,

00:57:11.760 you could probably get a wider audience by appealing to a new kink around 1.00

00:57:15.880 your new age category.

00:57:16.940 Probably.

00:57:19.440 But my guess is people still like hot older women. 1.00

00:57:23.260 If you're an older woman,

00:57:24.240 you probably want one that looks like a young,

00:57:26.560 like a aged healthful,

00:57:28.140 healthily older woman.

00:57:29.600 And a lot of people have plastic surgery.

00:57:31.760 You don't notice like a lot of like older celebrities that look sort of their

00:57:35.320 age,

00:57:35.740 maybe just look like they've aged super well and are still kind of pretty.

00:57:38.860 They've probably had a ton of plastic surgery.

00:57:41.260 So yeah,

00:57:41.680 I plan on surgery it up real hard,

00:57:45.280 but you can only,

00:57:47.340 Oh yeah.

00:57:47.760 I've already surgery myself.

00:57:49.480 I am a transhumanist.

00:57:50.560 Like I would like to my body as much as possible.

00:57:55.560 Well,

00:57:56.000 I'll tell you what,

00:57:56.500 I can't tell you look fantastic.

00:57:58.480 I don't say about people who have surgery themselves.

00:58:00.640 Generally.

00:58:01.140 I'm not a fan of it.

00:58:02.820 Simone is.

00:58:04.280 Continue.

00:58:05.520 Well,

00:58:05.860 it's,

00:58:06.000 it's,

00:58:06.280 I think it's like suffers from sort of visibility bias,

00:58:08.500 like kind of like trans people. 0.80

00:58:10.060 Like you notice that somebody's trans,

00:58:11.480 if they're not passing well,

00:58:12.320 and if they pass,

00:58:12.980 you don't even notice that they're trans.

00:58:14.320 So in your mind, 0.82

00:58:15.340 all the trans people you've seen are bad at passing. 1.00

00:58:17.100 I think the same is with plastic surgery. 0.73

00:58:18.520 All the plastic surgery you've seen is by definition,

00:58:21.780 bad plastic surgery,

00:58:22.620 but tons of people get little tweaks all the time.

00:58:24.720 You never know.

00:58:26.460 Interesting.

00:58:27.140 I'm going to counter here.

00:58:28.860 I think that you're right about plastic surgery with trans people. 1.00

00:58:31.740 I heard something about trans people recently that really stuck with me,

00:58:35.840 which is that most trans people don't pass.

00:58:38.340 Like the,

00:58:38.640 the,

00:58:38.840 the,

00:58:39.180 the passing trans person is actually pretty rare.

00:58:42.180 And that because of that trans people sort of rely on society to go along 1.00

00:58:48.280 with this sort of delusion,

00:58:49.800 not,

00:58:50.040 not this delusion,

00:58:51.020 but like to agree with them.

00:58:52.740 And this is why it's so important for the trans movement to push so hard

00:58:55.840 on this issue,

00:58:56.500 because most trans people don't pass and they rely on everyone pretending that 0.96

00:59:01.460 they do.

00:59:02.560 Yeah.

00:59:03.000 I agree with this,

00:59:03.720 which I think is actually quite cruel for trans people.

00:59:05.800 Like you're doing like this weird psychological thing where like,

00:59:08.700 yes,

00:59:08.880 you're a woman and you,

00:59:10.400 but like other people aren't going to treat you like a woman,

00:59:12.160 but like,

00:59:12.540 we're saying that that's not what a woman is. 1.00

00:59:14.540 And then I think it's like,

00:59:15.340 just creates a lot of confusion and dysphoria for them,

00:59:17.860 which is terrible.

00:59:18.340 But I still,

00:59:19.240 I did update in this direction after like occasionally meeting people that I

00:59:23.440 thought were cis that turned out to be translator.

00:59:26.080 And,

00:59:26.160 and I agree that like,

00:59:27.240 maybe this is rarer than,

00:59:28.760 than not passing or something.

00:59:30.880 But after having that experience,

00:59:32.280 I realized that,

00:59:32.900 Oh,

00:59:33.020 like my felt sense of like the passingness of trans people is like,

00:59:37.320 actually has been off because I was failing to take into consideration.

00:59:40.700 These people that I knew personally,

00:59:42.300 that turned out to actually be trans.

00:59:44.240 And that,

00:59:44.520 that did shift the way that I viewed trans people,

00:59:46.260 like the passingness.

00:59:48.020 Oh,

00:59:48.420 that's really fascinating.

00:59:49.520 Yeah.

00:59:49.860 Yeah.

00:59:50.120 And that would,

00:59:50.580 that would make a lot of sense.

00:59:51.920 Like Nikki tutorials.

00:59:52.960 Do you know Nikki tutorials?

00:59:54.020 The YouTuber?

00:59:55.320 No,

00:59:55.740 I don't.

00:59:56.340 I'll look this up.

00:59:57.240 Nikki is somebody like I was aware of vaguely for many years.

01:00:01.040 She's just like this woman who does makeup tutorials. 1.00

01:00:04.240 It's used to me.

01:00:05.040 She's just been like a lady, 1.00

01:00:06.600 clearly a lady. 1.00

01:00:07.680 She's just a woman. 1.00

01:00:08.480 And then at one point she had a coming out where she admitted that she was

01:00:11.040 trans.

01:00:11.380 I was like,

01:00:11.700 Holy, 1.00

01:00:12.680 Holy fuck. 1.00

01:00:13.320 I think that was actually probably one of the best things that happened. 1.00

01:00:15.520 I thought she was trans. 0.85

01:00:16.940 Cause she was.

01:00:17.640 Yeah.

01:00:17.780 When I catch trans women who otherwise passes because they're attractive, 1.00

01:00:21.660 but she's not attractive enough for me to question it. 0.76

01:00:25.220 I don't think it's like,

01:00:26.240 but yeah.

01:00:29.080 Yeah.

01:00:29.480 Sure.

01:00:29.660 She sounds like a woman.

01:00:30.580 Like,

01:00:31.400 I don't know.

01:00:32.120 This is,

01:00:32.620 this is like when I'm like,

01:00:34.160 I,

01:00:34.440 if you're,

01:00:34.840 if you're a transphobe and you're like,

01:00:36.340 Oh,

01:00:36.680 but like you call her a man,

01:00:38.280 I feel like that's just,

01:00:39.220 there's something weird going on.

01:00:40.240 Like she's clearly not.

01:00:42.880 Well,

01:00:43.320 the Simone has the horrifying opinion. 0.77

01:00:45.900 I don't know if you've seen,

01:00:47.120 we have the,

01:00:47.580 what is a woman episode. 0.96

01:00:48.960 And Simone's like, 0.82

01:00:49.680 yeah,

01:00:49.880 I consider someone a woman if they pass. 0.95

01:00:52.460 And that is like the most offensive thing you can say,

01:00:55.580 but I genuinely think that's the way most people feel.

01:00:59.520 Yeah.

01:00:59.960 That was basically what I argued in my article.

01:01:01.860 Like what also called what,

01:01:03.820 what a woman is where I'm like,

01:01:06.600 like,

01:01:06.820 I think by definition,

01:01:07.980 the way that we've practically use the concept of a trend of a woman is

01:01:12.200 somebody who looks like,

01:01:14.800 which I,

01:01:15.560 so I think,

01:01:16.160 I think I'm very pro trans.

01:01:17.520 And I think we need to develop better technology to help people pass.

01:01:20.420 Because like,

01:01:20.860 if I were trans,

01:01:21.540 I would want to like go all the way to the opposite side and be convincing.

01:01:25.360 And that would be the thing that feels best for me.

01:01:26.800 And I think everybody should have access to that.

01:01:29.140 So.

01:01:30.000 Well,

01:01:30.380 I mean,

01:01:30.580 I think that we should have technology that doesn't mean that they need to

01:01:33.360 fully transition.

01:01:34.100 I think that we should have technology that allows them to fill any body

01:01:36.540 type they want.

01:01:37.700 And I think a lot of trans people who I know don't actually want to fully

01:01:41.160 transition.

01:01:41.700 They want to be FUDA.

01:01:42.580 They want to be,

01:01:43.380 you know,

01:01:43.900 many other things,

01:01:44.860 but like they,

01:01:46.060 they,

01:01:46.260 they,

01:01:46.540 the,

01:01:46.800 the problem is, 0.61

01:01:47.780 is right now there's like this ghoulish plastic surgery monster

01:01:52.460 that isn't necessarily particularly different from an old woman.

01:01:55.460 Who's trying to be a young woman. 1.00

01:01:56.580 It's not unique to transness.

01:01:58.220 It's just a product of the technology that we have right now.

01:02:02.220 But as we move forward,

01:02:03.240 I think it's quite tragic.

01:02:04.720 Yeah,

01:02:05.220 it is.

01:02:05.520 It is tragic.

01:02:06.320 It is tragic.

01:02:06.980 I agree.

01:02:07.400 And especially when you try to attribute that much trauma to being like

01:02:12.960 misgendered and stuff like that.

01:02:14.620 I can't imagine how much pain they experience every day.

01:02:17.720 No,

01:02:17.980 of course.

01:02:18.340 I'm really hoping AI gives us like updates in tech that allows us to

01:02:21.580 modify bodies in a way that like helps this for you.

01:02:24.160 I think that'd be lovely.

01:02:25.740 Well,

01:02:26.060 I think what we're actually going to see before that is people are not

01:02:29.980 interacting in person as much anymore.

01:02:31.460 And I think that this will enable non in-person interactions at a higher

01:02:37.340 level within this community where they can better model themselves as

01:02:42.160 other types of things within online environments.

01:02:45.320 Cause I think that comes before better transition technology.

01:02:48.840 That's fair.

01:02:49.220 Yeah.

01:02:50.180 Yeah.

01:02:50.420 That would be awesome.

01:02:52.720 But yeah.

01:02:53.480 Oh,

01:02:53.700 actually here's a question for you.

01:02:55.280 How could you arbitrage?

01:02:57.740 Well,

01:02:59.520 I guess the sheer content you have of you.

01:03:01.620 Yeah.

01:03:01.720 You could use that to arbitrage online environments.

01:03:06.900 Yeah.

01:03:08.580 That would be cool.

01:03:10.100 I mean,

01:03:10.540 it probably doesn't,

01:03:11.540 it probably wouldn't be that hard for somebody else to compete.

01:03:13.360 Like you just have to generate that.

01:03:15.120 It doesn't take that long.

01:03:16.200 I think to generate as much information to make good models,

01:03:19.220 but.

01:03:20.820 Yeah.

01:03:22.120 Well,

01:03:22.560 I've had,

01:03:22.880 I'm sorry.

01:03:25.340 I'm just looking for excuses to keep talking to you.

01:03:27.180 Cause I don't,

01:03:28.400 I don't.

01:03:28.980 I think when I first met and I was like,

01:03:30.980 ah,

01:03:31.840 person that I like.

01:03:33.380 So we met the first time and we ended up talking to like 3 AM that day.

01:03:38.080 And I was just like,

01:03:39.140 Oh my God,

01:03:39.840 I love this person so much.

01:03:42.860 And,

01:03:43.360 and I don't do that.

01:03:44.380 I do not stay up late.

01:03:45.500 People don't know this about me.

01:03:46.760 Yeah.

01:03:46.960 I can be with a billionaire and I will take naps in between talking sessions

01:03:52.700 because it kills me.

01:03:54.460 You know,

01:03:54.840 I,

01:03:54.960 I cannot stay up.

01:03:56.320 You were just like so compelling to me.

01:03:59.120 Yeah,

01:03:59.420 you too.

01:04:00.000 It was great.

01:04:00.380 It was like meeting a kid.

01:04:01.500 It was like,

01:04:01.760 Oh my God,

01:04:02.200 somebody from,

01:04:02.660 I don't know what tribe we're,

01:04:03.560 we're both from,

01:04:04.300 but it was like,

01:04:05.160 felt like meeting somebody from your hometown or something.

01:04:07.760 It was really nice.

01:04:08.460 No,

01:04:08.640 no,

01:04:08.820 I did.

01:04:09.180 You know,

01:04:09.380 it was like a sister or something.

01:04:10.480 As I said,

01:04:10.900 like,

01:04:11.100 I don't,

01:04:11.440 I don't,

01:04:11.720 I don't identify with,

01:04:12.880 I identify with my brother.

01:04:14.100 You need to meet my brother.

01:04:15.040 You'd like my brother.

01:04:15.840 You need to come out here sometime.

01:04:17.380 When you start having kids,

01:04:19.040 we'll bring you out.

01:04:20.300 We got a,

01:04:21.320 I have,

01:04:21.820 I have pushed hard for who I think would be a good father in a few unsubtle suggestions.

01:04:29.900 Who seems to have some level of dedication to you and cares about you.

01:04:33.860 But this is just me as an outsider saying this is a physically fit,

01:04:39.580 intellectually person who seems to care about you.

01:04:45.220 Yeah.

01:04:45.740 Well,

01:04:45.980 we will see.

01:04:46.600 I am going through an egg phrasing process soon.

01:04:48.820 So there will be.

01:04:50.560 Please do the world.

01:04:51.780 I need my kids to have partners.

01:04:53.640 You know,

01:04:53.920 we're doing arranged marriages for our kids,

01:04:56.020 right?

01:04:58.100 I hope they like that.

01:05:00.600 No,

01:05:01.120 no,

01:05:01.360 we don't.

01:05:01.840 They don't have to do the arranged marriage.

01:05:03.380 The way it works gives them an option.

01:05:05.560 And we say,

01:05:06.240 if you don't take this option,

01:05:07.500 we're not doing it again.

01:05:09.280 And a lot of people are like,

01:05:10.940 Oh,

01:05:11.060 that's horrifying.

01:05:11.800 Like,

01:05:12.040 how could you do that?

01:05:12.920 Like,

01:05:14.280 you know,

01:05:14.900 and when we talk to like young people about this and they're like,

01:05:18.420 I love this idea.

01:05:19.640 Like if only somebody was just like,

01:05:21.520 okay,

01:05:21.700 here's your one choice,

01:05:22.820 take it or leave it.

01:05:23.580 Your parents thought it was a good option.

01:05:25.120 They know their parents.

01:05:26.620 If you have kids,

01:05:28.060 I'm definitely putting you in the pool. 0.99

01:05:29.820 I'll be sending you a letter.

01:05:31.420 If you have kids that are around my kid's age to marry and they're like

01:05:34.300 competent,

01:05:35.180 like non,

01:05:35.680 like spaz outs, 1.00

01:05:37.700 we'd be like,

01:05:38.120 okay,

01:05:38.940 I have vetted you and your partner.

01:05:40.580 You both seem intellectually competent,

01:05:43.120 healthy individuals.

01:05:45.580 If the embryo station goes well,

01:05:47.220 then you hell yeah.

01:05:47.820 Yeah.

01:05:50.380 Well,

01:05:50.700 this is the thing.

01:05:51.220 You're like,

01:05:51.580 why do you want to marry somebody like was in your family?

01:05:53.680 Well,

01:05:53.960 like who do you see as a sister?

01:05:55.540 It's like,

01:05:56.140 no,

01:05:56.300 no,

01:05:56.400 no.

01:05:56.560 If you see somebody as a sister,

01:05:57.520 it means you don't want them.

01:05:58.660 You don't want to sleep with them.

01:05:59.620 I don't want to have kids with you,

01:06:00.920 but the best marriages are second cousin care marriages in terms of

01:06:06.560 producing genetically healthy offspring.

01:06:08.800 So.

01:06:10.740 Well,

01:06:11.080 then we have to keep this recording then so that they can play it at

01:06:13.700 their wedding one day.

01:06:15.320 Right.

01:06:15.640 They'll be like,

01:06:16.180 Oh my God,

01:06:16.740 those creeps.

01:06:20.580 Anyway,

01:06:21.060 have a spectacular day.

01:06:24.400 This has been a lot of fun.

01:06:26.320 This is to talk.

01:06:29.480 And you know,

01:06:29.760 our podcast is actually doing well now.

01:06:31.340 Do you know,

01:06:32.180 right now we're at 13.7 thousand hours of watch time per 28 day period.

01:06:37.960 Wow,

01:06:38.640 dude,

01:06:39.040 good job.

01:06:40.400 So.

01:06:42.180 Yeah.

01:06:42.580 We have about like 13 people watching us talk at any given time.

01:06:46.740 I would expect nothing less.

01:06:49.020 Anyway,

01:06:49.700 I really appreciate it and have a spectacular day.

01:06:52.980 And I'm glad that things are going well with you in this,

01:06:55.460 this project you're doing the,

01:06:56.580 how to have sex better because it is such a good niche for you.

01:07:01.780 Thanks. 0.76

01:07:03.260 Have a great day.

01:07:04.580 Bye.

01:07:04.740 Bye.

01:07:05.360 Bye.

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