Based Camp - Should We Slut Shame？

00:00:00.000 you know infrared systems but what are you hunting for humans no you don't hunt for humans

00:00:07.300 not Simone we don't talk about that this is recording now you can't talk about that

00:00:12.560 thing for our friends this is a joke obviously we don't hunt humans recreationally at night

00:00:23.580 we don't engage in the ultimate sport that's Simone you don't call it the ultimate sport it is

00:00:29.580 a sport I'd hardly say it's the best sport it's anything mediocre because we don't like it

00:00:36.140 isn't the ultimate sport winning hearts right yes that's the ultimate sport so yeah that's the

00:00:45.860 ultimate sport I I really admire you okay so this episode is a good one I I hope I hope what we're

00:00:53.460 going to talk about is slut shaming we're going to talk about why um people may slut shame like why

00:01:02.280 historically this trend came about because like people don't just hurt other people for no reason

00:01:07.340 right like if they're shaming you if they're doing something there's a reason for that either it's an

00:01:12.560 immediate self-interested reason or it's because cultural groups that engaged in this practice

00:01:18.240 outcompeted cultural groups that didn't engage in this practice in the case of slut shaming it's a

00:01:23.160 bit of both and then we're going to evaluate in a modern context does slut shaming still make sense

00:01:30.620 with this question being asked in two categories does slut shaming make sense if you slut shame people

00:01:38.160 of other cultural groups like does that have utility and does slut shaming make sense within a cultural

00:01:44.320 group does it make sense to to slut shame members of your own cultural group so first Simone do you want

00:01:50.200 to go over what slut shaming is for people who may not know ah yes slut shaming involves both male and

00:01:57.740 female public criticism often to other people though often to the subject themselves of someone's sexual

00:02:04.900 promiscuity so I think a lot of people define a slut as someone who actually like sleeps around a lot

00:02:10.560 but slut shaming in its traditional context could involve literally just shaming a young woman for losing

00:02:17.440 her virginity early and just then call her a slut because she like literally had sex with her boyfriend

00:02:22.260 at age 16 or something and it is it is an interesting innovation it's been around for a long time well hold on

00:02:29.020 I'd expand it further there another area where I often see slut shaming and I think this is you know when I

00:02:33.540 remember in high school oh just for dress right just looking sexually provocative just dress or action you

00:02:39.020 know when I didn't like a woman I remember in groups they call them the sluts you know and I think even

00:02:47.080 just generally like not necessarily they had done something that showed improprietary impropriety

00:02:53.400 improper it was improper yeah it was just seen as a negative general thing to say about somebody and so

00:03:00.300 it was frequently used to describe a people who you didn't like but of course it's interesting that so

00:03:06.920 like people would often refer to guys that they were making fun of as gay or some variation of that

00:03:12.180 and then they would refer to women that they didn't approve of as sluts regardless of any sexual

00:03:17.600 signaling whatsoever this is our generation by the way we're not talking I don't think this is true

00:03:21.860 as much anymore especially it is interesting to just like use it as an approximation I guess it's

00:03:27.820 kind of like calling someone mentally disabled in some way like choose whatever word of the time well I

00:03:32.100 think because they were trying to elevate the the worst things that they could think of each gender

00:03:37.620 succumbing to from the the cultural perspective of the time normative behavior women it was sexual

00:03:43.380 impropriety it was men and it's very interesting yeah well no I won't even say sexual deviance

00:03:49.060 when people in my generation so I grew up in in Texas you know and a long time ago I'm 36 now you're

00:03:56.820 very old I'm very old prodigiously yeah so when they would use the word gay derogatorily of other

00:04:05.160 young men or or things they'd be like oh that's so gay they didn't mean even at the time I thought it

00:04:10.820 was off like I didn't really do it myself which you know thank god there's no hidden recording of me

00:04:16.000 ever being no because I I was really involved with the gay community even like like early on but

00:04:21.300 anyway so they didn't mean it in a way where they were saying that these individuals were interested

00:04:27.740 in same-sex relationships that would not be seen as like the highest negative to being

00:04:33.780 this derogatory gay it was meant to mean that men were not living up to masculine ideals

00:04:40.400 it that's funny because I feel like honestly the most masculine high testosterone subgroup of men is gay men

00:04:46.900 well yeah and that's what I mean and I think that that's why there was this uh disconnect for a

00:04:52.880 long time where where a lot of people when they would use this word in a derogatory context they

00:04:57.780 didn't think of themselves as hurting the gay community because they did not mean it of the

00:05:03.320 vast majority of the gay community right they weren't actually referring to I guess if anything it's a

00:05:08.680 derogatory word just because it refers to well in their vision from condoned societal norms per their

00:05:13.880 perception yeah yeah the negative effects it had were they're all the same you know but I'm just

00:05:18.260 pointing out that this is this is what we meant so that's really interesting there and I and I

00:05:22.180 I wonder if we lost a way sorry just just a total tangent from the slut shaming thing

00:05:29.840 did we lose a way to insult men for not being masculine because we tied the core way that we would

00:05:39.640 do that insult to the term a super masculine group as a separate meaning I think now that's why

00:05:46.520 relationships well we've discovered I think we've realized that subtly subconsciously as a population and

00:05:52.320 that's why we use the word cuck more recently oh wow yes yeah actually yeah we use pussy for a bit

00:06:00.000 which didn't really catch on as much and then cuck that is so perfect and it's also a perfect thing

00:06:05.200 when people of my generation said something was gay or they said somebody was gay that was much

00:06:12.280 closer to them in today's language calling that thing cucked or calling that individual a cuck

00:06:18.380 than it was in today's generation we're like like actually being derogatory towards someone for having

00:06:25.440 a same-sex relationship yeah and I feel like even now cuck is kind of out and we're into more cringe and

00:06:30.720 cope um which maybe is even more a reflection of like obsession contemporary obsession with mental

00:06:36.940 health I don't know or like oh by the way an interesting thing about cucks is that conservative

00:06:43.200 men in our data and in other studies that have shown are actually more likely to be turned on by

00:06:48.220 cuckoldry than progressive men yeah I don't know why it's not a big effect it's like a 10 percent

00:06:53.440 difference but it's it's weird that's still meaningful you know yeah I mean it's it's fun if you're

00:06:57.440 writing an article or something anyway so slut shaming so why did slut shaming first evolve right

00:07:06.920 and where do you see slut shaming the most so historically if a woman accidentally got pregnant

00:07:13.580 before marriage that was really bad for a culture and not just a culture but a town a village because

00:07:20.740 the kids that these women had you didn't have a state welfare systems right like this money was not

00:07:27.260 as widely distributed that individual became a ward of the state and and even then you know they were

00:07:33.140 much more likely to end up going down criminal life paths or if they didn't they'd end up going down a

00:07:37.100 criminal life path and today you know it takes a long time for a kid you don't care about to become a

00:07:46.900 criminal in a daily past right like that individual typically has to become like 21 or something before

00:07:51.560 they're really a danger to other people often this is not true if you go even back to victorian england

00:07:57.280 you know if you look at oliver twist right like a huge subplot of that was the orphan pickpockets

00:08:04.520 right like but but you know and that they're not shanking people a lot and stuff like that but that

00:08:09.660 was things they did in real life so it still sucks no one wants to have their pocket picked

00:08:14.620 mm-hmm a well i mean a woman who who in these historical contexts who had a kid outside of

00:08:20.620 wedlock you know you're 10 years away from a little gremlin with a knife stabbing your your spouse you

00:08:26.260 know like there was a much shorter like timeline to like the negative effects of this so that was like

00:08:32.260 one core thing they were afraid of this right like that an individual would get pregnant and they

00:08:36.580 wouldn't have a partner to support them and it was while women actually worked back then and i'm gonna

00:08:41.000 put up a statistic here that shows a lot of people think that women in like you know you go to the

00:08:45.060 distant past didn't really work they did they worked at about the same rate that they do today

00:08:48.280 a little less than men but nothing like you know the 50s and the 60s what we actually had was women's

00:08:53.660 employment was high women's employment then a dip down then a backup but even with all of that they

00:08:59.640 you know it's difficult to rate the kid in a single income family and the types of women who were doing

00:09:04.740 this you know if they then wanted a partner they would have to find a way to get rid of the kid

00:09:08.460 which again meant orphan right because life as a partnered woman was much better in most of these

00:09:12.780 communities okay so that was one problem that you had so so so that was a negative but then you have

00:09:19.920 a secondary problem which i think is the much a bigger reason that slut shaming has been carried out

00:09:24.880 more recently which is in monogamous majority countries right which is and as we point out you never

00:09:32.400 have been an all monogamous society wealthy men are always polygynous always the thing i always point

00:09:38.360 out is is the the peak of catholic culture right you know today we talk about tradcasts and everything

00:09:43.880 like that and people think of them as being the most monogamous culture the peak of catholic culture

00:09:47.720 was louis the 14th and and that was a you know in in that culture and you know that was high french

00:09:54.560 culture right um it had many many uh concubines and stuff like that and many side pieces so if you

00:10:01.760 have enough wealth in a society no matter how much it turns towards a monogamous cultural practice

00:10:05.460 you're always going to have some level that there was shaming there was shaming there was shaming but

00:10:10.340 we'll get to that okay but we got to talk about why shaming and blah blah blah blah okay okay so

00:10:15.880 why is monogamy useful for a society right monogamy is useful for a society because it lowers the number

00:10:26.040 of unpaired men in a society great studies done on this that look at similar cultural groups you know

00:10:32.620 economic similarities etc in parts of africa because that's where you'll often have cultural

00:10:36.160 groups right next to each other we'll have one that's monogamous and one that's polygynous not

00:10:40.160 poly polygynous one man many women poly basically doesn't happen naturally it's a weird modern phenomenon

00:10:46.740 that we can maybe do another video on i think we did actually the are we monogamous video is kind

00:10:52.280 of on the question of poly but anyway okay so what you find is you have higher rates of terrorism you

00:10:58.320 have higher rates of stealing you have higher rates of prostitution you have lower trust between

00:11:02.320 individuals basically everything that can go wrong does go wrong this is due to what we call in our

00:11:06.360 books the free radical problem the free radical problem is the number of men that are unpaired in

00:11:13.180 a society is highly correlatory with the amount of social ills in that society and it's because their

00:11:20.800 biology sort of goes crazy and of course you know it's sort of an all or nothing breeding strategy for

00:11:26.480 them and if not then just a spite strategy now what's interesting is there are some studies that

00:11:32.320 counteract this when men choose male dominated societies i.e like mining towns and stuff like

00:11:39.240 that you often don't have these same negative effects at the high levels that you would expect

00:11:42.980 but i think that might be a choice thing you know like these men are saving up wealth until they

00:11:46.680 can leave and then go and find a partner yeah there may be the expectation that they will eventually

00:11:50.740 be able to get any woman they want i think also there's the effect of just seeing other people

00:11:56.280 have it and you not having it i mean we psychologically that's a really big thing is

00:12:00.580 you know we don't there is no like universal basis for human dignity or comfort there's oh it's always

00:12:08.620 relative it's well i need a big screen tv to have my human rights met because everyone else is a big

00:12:14.620 screen tv so i think that's another big factor yeah okay anyway so you you get to societies that

00:12:21.560 are mostly monogamous most of the ones that we're coming from are on the monogamous side of the

00:12:25.420 spectrum and there's a lot of benefits to this you know it it means that when a partner matches

00:12:32.380 another partner both partners are largely pulling each other off the market and this is a really

00:12:39.040 positive effect for for the rest of society because it means that you can theoretically get a society

00:12:46.280 where like 90 of males and females are paired with each other assuming you have similar gender ratios

00:12:51.980 now you do run into some problems if like you are dating downwards in terms of age and you have a

00:12:56.780 quickly growing population because that means the number of men is always going to be quite

00:13:01.220 quite a little bit smaller than the number of women you know and this is the problem you see in in

00:13:05.840 some orthodox like jewish communities where they'll date a few years down like five years

00:13:11.120 down or something like that and what that ends up meaning is because the population is growing so

00:13:15.180 quickly you're generally going to have like nine men for every 10 women which means like systemically

00:13:19.900 women even women who follow all the rules aren't finding partners but also in these communities it's

00:13:24.480 much more likely for a man to marry outside the community than it is for a woman to marry outside the

00:13:28.260 community because within a lot of groups it's believed that it's easier for a woman to fully

00:13:33.120 convert than a man to fully convert with ironically judaism being the one sort of exception here but

00:13:38.260 i had just used it as an example so whatever so yeah but okay back back on topic so let's talk about

00:13:43.700 the beginnings of of of modern slut shaming right this wasn't like this is this is post contraceptives

00:13:51.580 right post abortion so you're not dealing with the same risk of of you know women getting pregnant and

00:13:57.780 kids becoming the ward of the state well even in this scenario you actually have really negative

00:14:03.820 externalities for everyone else in a society if one woman decides to sleep around so and it's not just

00:14:12.020 the potentially orphaned children yeah so you know if i have a group of let's say 10 men and 10 women

00:14:21.260 right a monogamy world these women are matching to these men right like like based on their aggregate

00:14:29.820 desirability within a social order suppose that one of these women or two of these women let's say two

00:14:35.400 of these women you know like 20 of society says hey actually i'm gonna be i'm just gonna sleep around

00:14:41.600 i don't need to marry a guy i don't need to to be long-term monogamous with a guy to be with a guy

00:14:47.360 right well immediately a lot of guys within this community are going to artificially value these

00:14:55.340 women higher than they might otherwise value them so in a group of 10 women right these two women if

00:15:03.060 you want immediate access to sex these two women will be the highest value women to pretty much any

00:15:09.720 guy in that group right like even if they're below average if the other women aren't going out there and

00:15:14.500 being willing to have sex and and that is what a guy is interested in then these women even if

00:15:19.700 they're like near the bottom two women that they have the highest value like they're sort of playing

00:15:24.700 this arbitrage game now of course they're degrading their long-term value by doing this and yeah this

00:15:29.980 is a short-term game and that's why it's also like not so smart it's a short-term game yeah but it is an

00:15:35.640 enormously profitable short-term game if you're talking about like social status profitability

00:15:40.720 attention from men you couldn't otherwise get to pay attention to you etc like there are a lot of

00:15:46.140 short-term benefits to doing this for the individual yeah well and also if you live in a

00:15:50.560 society where having a kid with one of these people like without their consent locks them down it is a

00:15:55.920 way for a very low value woman to ultimately end up with a higher value man than she could have gotten

00:16:00.980 had she chosen a monogamous strategy or high value child support exactly yeah so this when one of these

00:16:07.720 women starts doing this it's bad for all of the women who are playing the game faithfully

00:16:11.620 right like they have lost a huge chunk of their value right the guys who previously they would have

00:16:18.840 wanted these top tier guys well they're now sleeping with these other women and they're not going to pay

00:16:25.480 attention to these women until later until they're ready to settle down or whatever and even then these

00:16:31.600 women are offering these men something that's sort of like paywalled um that that now these guys can

00:16:37.960 get for free maybe at lower quality but they can still get it for free uh if i was to word it

00:16:43.560 differently you know how much is a paywalled porn company going to make even if it's slightly higher

00:16:47.860 quality porn if there's free porn online exactly that offering is no longer that high and the men who

00:16:53.960 are sleeping with these girls let's be clear these are the top two most attractive men of this group

00:16:57.680 right if 20 of the women are sleeping around they're going to be sleeping with the top two men

00:17:01.580 because they are the highest value of the women who are sleeping around okay so there's you can

00:17:06.900 think of them almost like union scabs they sort of break the value proposition that the other women

00:17:11.500 are offering well then after a bit you you begin to get a situation in which all of the other women

00:17:18.300 are benefiting from putting an exogenous negative modifier to these women who show this level of

00:17:27.420 sexual improprieties market value right social value etc so they will tease they will attack these

00:17:35.000 women in an attempt to lower their social value so through applying this exogenous motivation

00:17:42.820 there is a cost to doing it for these women right an immediate cost not a long-term cost but an

00:17:49.860 immediate cost because this immediate cost then makes it less like beneficial to do this like if we're

00:17:55.780 just speaking about like in the moment beneficiality well then they think oh well i get called a slut i

00:18:01.320 get shamed i get disinvited to parties everything like that you know that is a reason to not go out

00:18:08.560 and sleep around within these communities now to simone's comment here which we also need to talk

00:18:15.000 about you know when this was starting there was also a huge negative long-term effect for the women who

00:18:19.100 were doing this right like if you went out and did this it was like getting a face tattoo right like

00:18:25.320 you had dramatically lowered both your social standing was in society and your ability to lock

00:18:31.680 down a long-term partner it was not really worth it except for women in generally pretty hard-up

00:18:38.640 situations either hard-up economic situations or hard-up mental situations it was just not something

00:18:44.980 that your general like upstanding mentally healthy woman was going to do in this historical context

00:18:50.060 but time goes on okay now you've got a group of women in our society who are these women who

00:19:00.780 engage in sexual impropriety have and have gotten older right and they are basically a an underclass

00:19:06.660 within society that has a motivation to lower the stigma against women like them in addition to that

00:19:14.260 men and and i know you know because i'm old uh i remember like i wanted to promote women being

00:19:20.920 slutty because i could sleep with those women right like i was one of the guys arguing oh yeah you should

00:19:25.740 totally sleep around like that's what i was saying in high school because i wanted to sleep with them

00:19:29.440 obviously right so there's there's two groups that that is promoting this it's the women who have now

00:19:36.060 entered this sort of new weird underclass and then the men who want to sleep with these women right

00:19:41.960 and here we mentioned this in the in the video of how much does sleeping around actually matter

00:19:46.920 but just for women who are like broadly unaware of this because i think our society kind of hides this

00:19:52.260 and it's something that i don't think it's easy to intuit as a woman biologically men a good portion of

00:19:57.940 men not all men seem to have an intrinsic sort of disgust reaction and and loss of attraction to women who

00:20:05.580 they know have a high body count and i think it's just one of those arousal slash aversion things that

00:20:11.960 people can't control if you're in defeat you can't control if you are into men versus women and you

00:20:19.520 can't control if it really turns you off that someone's had a lot of sexual partners yeah okay

00:20:25.260 yeah yeah and i i just think that that's sort of missed for people because our society kind of

00:20:29.580 hides it from you and if you don't believe me just go around and ask a bunch of your male friends and

00:20:33.520 you can just ignore them you can be like oh you've been brainwashed by society but i'm telling you

00:20:38.700 they happen like it it's it's an intrinsic thing so and it's not all guys again i think it's like

00:20:45.380 60 70 percent of guys from what i've seen um anyway so back to the story at hand so there was this

00:20:54.580 motivation for slut shaming but as the negative externality that people were able to apply through

00:21:02.480 slut shaming lessened over time because it did lessen over time as society normalized you know

00:21:09.100 i call it serial monogamy which was basically a form of sleeping around

00:21:12.980 then more and more people benefited from doing it because the negative external effects were not there

00:21:20.440 and so you begin to move from 20 to 40 from 40 to you know 60 right so what then happens when you

00:21:28.100 have let's say 20 or 30 of women really not sleeping around much and and then 60 70 sleeping

00:21:35.680 around a lot right or or open to sleeping around not like just totally giving it away well now you

00:21:40.780 have two categories of slut right you have category one of slut which is the serial monogamy slut

00:21:46.520 right these women are still broadly monogamous but they are moving between partners fairly quickly

00:21:51.960 but then so they just have a lot of boyfriends and then maybe husbands yeah yeah yeah and then you have

00:21:57.160 the actual like sleeping around women who just sort of sleep with anyone just lots of hookups yeah

00:22:01.480 to understand this system we're first going to talk about the women who are just sort of sleeping

00:22:05.040 around more broadly right so let's assume that they were like 70 of these so seven out of these 10

00:22:11.000 women were in this group right three of the women were still like okay i'm going to save myself etc but

00:22:17.680 then these other women whatever well who are they going to choose to sleep with right of the men

00:22:24.280 they're not sleeping with the average men they're not giving up all of what they are giving up because

00:22:29.800 they are still giving stuff up to sleep with average or below average men they are all sleeping

00:22:34.960 with the same men and because these men are non-exclusive right it's easy for them to do this

00:22:40.880 to move from one to the other to the other right so this was a system that really not really benefited

00:22:48.980 women when it was only a few women doing this but it's a system that like benefits women a lot less

00:22:54.500 the more women are participating in it yeah because then suddenly your arbitrage opportunity disappears

00:23:02.820 yeah yeah it's a tragedy of the commons issue now okay let's divide these women into two groups some

00:23:09.160 who are still sort of doing the monogamy thing and some that are being just totally promiscuous you

00:23:13.900 know very low barriers to sexual access well the ones who are totally promiscuous they're both hurting

00:23:18.320 the ones who are waiting for marriage but the one but but not as much because now those women are like

00:23:23.200 a unique asset if you get what i mean right like they are something that no one else can get and that

00:23:29.460 makes sense for a specific class of guy that's generally not the guys who are out there sleeping

00:23:33.420 around right the women who they actually hurt the most are the serial monogamy women because now these

00:23:40.040 women don't really have anything differential over the completely slutty women right like they've also been

00:23:45.220 with a number of partners but they're not giving out sex for free you know they're out there basically

00:23:50.360 charging for it whether it's dates or time or anything like that right and so these other women are even

00:23:55.300 more like analogous to just like straight up scab breakers so even as sexual impropriety is normalized

00:24:01.660 within society there is still a strong motivation to slut shame these women right for a big a big portion of the

00:24:08.900 population and as we move further and further along as a society now there's new types of slides right

00:24:16.220 these are women who are doing only fans accounts these are women who are posting stuff online right

00:24:24.800 yeah so not actually sleeping with people just yeah but these women are now actually like a lower

00:24:31.820 category of slut you could almost say than the ones who were just sleeping around a lot because now they're

00:24:35.580 hurting those women's ability to exercise what they were previously getting from the market well and i mean i think

00:24:41.660 arguably what's interesting about the threat posed by only fans artists is that

00:24:47.880 arguably what women really want from men is resources not necessarily exclusivity yeah like if they had to

00:24:57.500 choose they might choose resources over exclusivity and so you could argue that the only fans women are more of a

00:25:04.940 threat because they will command more in terms of financial resources than you know maybe a really cheap date

00:25:11.780 yeah so does slut shaming make sense in a modern context i want to hear your intuition like do you think that

00:25:20.360 you personally benefit from it

00:25:21.820 no because i don't understand when people are insulting me so i don't know but what i will say is i think that

00:25:32.860 shame as a concept is something i'm really really warming up to because it is a way to enforce

00:25:39.580 social norms without making a law or a rule so keep in mind one thing we haven't been discussing here is

00:25:45.900 like oh you know if you're found sleeping out of wedlock or you're found like you know sleeping around

00:25:51.700 as a young woman or even dressing provocatively like we're gonna jail you we're gonna beat you we're gonna

00:25:55.980 kill you you know it is just we're gonna we're gonna talk about you behind your back and in front

00:26:00.780 of you and be mean which is way nicer than being killed or jailed or tortured like physically although

00:26:08.620 people can argue that mental rejection social rejection is more painful than torture so i like it

00:26:14.580 because i think it allows a society to enforce important social social norms without having blanket

00:26:21.420 laws and i also like it because i think it works uniquely well in a pluralistic society because if

00:26:27.500 for example like a super conservative religious person who you don't identify with calls you a

00:26:34.620 slut you're just like i don't know like that you know that holier than thou weird catholic girl thinks

00:26:41.020 i'm a slut i don't care because i don't care about her culture so it also allows for for cultures to enforce

00:26:46.780 norms on their own people and even when they try to enforce those norms on outsiders they're not

00:26:51.900 hurting the outsiders only people who care about the in-group will be subject to those rules so to

00:26:57.980 me it seems super libertarian super laissez-faire but also i mean a lot of these social norms are

00:27:03.900 important to the points you made about societal stability so i think slut-shaming and other forms of

00:27:07.900 shame are really really wonderful so i might agree i i would say i mean like when i think about the

00:27:14.060 culture i would raise my kids like what am i telling them yeah and generally i just don't think

00:27:18.780 it's worth it when you apply to shame them what to shame them about anything no for them to shame other

00:27:25.340 people so so i'll explain why so if they go out there and they are broadly applying this negative

00:27:32.700 externality of shut slamming to society as a whole like all of the women in society who are out there

00:27:38.620 doing this well now they're hurting those people i mean that's what you're doing with a negative

00:27:42.380 externality that now provides motivation for those women the sluts to apply negative externalities to

00:27:48.060 them to prevent this kind of behavior i.e to do things that lower their social standing and this

00:27:53.260 is what we're beginning to see around slut-shaming right when the sluts rule the world right like

00:27:58.220 they've already taken over they've already won in mainstream society if you go out there and you

00:28:03.100 try to apply negative externalities to them those negative externalities actually reflect back onto you

00:28:09.260 at a much higher level because your behavior is a non-normative behavior that being the case

00:28:16.620 i don't think that there's a benefit to our kids doing it i do think that there's a benefit to them

00:28:22.140 making it known what they're looking for in a partner and that may be a low body count and i think

00:28:26.700 loudly signaling that is a valuable thing but signal it as i want somebody from one of

00:28:32.220 you know these deviant cultural groups right while affirming the cultural group for living in a

00:28:38.780 lifestyle that you don't believe it like i just don't think you're going to be able to change

00:28:44.380 mainstream society or mainstream action through such what about within our own culture or our own family

00:28:49.900 yeah no within your own culture i think it makes a lot of sense that's my whole point is one

00:28:55.020 any sort of shaming for someone outside your culture is feckless and pointless just makes you

00:29:00.700 look bad but i think within your culture i i just i think it's i think it's a really great non-coercive

00:29:04.940 way in fact i think you know if anything you look kind of lame shaming people outside your culture

00:29:10.060 because they don't care and it just makes you look weird but though it could you know to our other

00:29:14.460 conversations about the importantness of othering yourself to kind of keep you within your culture is

00:29:20.620 really important so it could play a good role in that it's more of a sense to just really

00:29:24.380 aggressively only shame was in your culture and make it clear what your intercultural status

00:29:29.500 hierarchy is going to be based on yeah and that sexual promiscuity and i hate to say this do you

00:29:35.340 think i mean is there any real negative to sexual promiscuity for men yes absolutely but it comes more

00:29:42.700 and it comes more from the risks of stds and of potentially getting a woman and potentially getting

00:29:49.180 a woman accusing you of misconduct so no that's very hot yeah i guess it makes sense it's extremely

00:29:55.340 risky yeah i mean it's it's you could hurt someone's feelings you could really you know if you if you

00:30:01.740 aren't very socially savvy and you aren't very careful about the way that you engage with people

00:30:06.220 you could hurt a lot of people we talked about this all right delta you changed my mind on this one i

00:30:11.180 think you're right um you have convinced me to to slut shame our sons oh good yeah a little a little

00:30:21.500 i still think they need practice more than the girls do

00:30:26.380 but be careful yeah no i i do agree with what what you're saying but i do agree that especially

00:30:32.620 for men like irl relationship experience is crucial because what are they doing otherwise they're just

00:30:38.860 watching porn online and that is not a way to learn how relationships work at all but because

00:30:44.540 it gives people super well realistic expectations important traits like being aggressive salesmanship

00:30:51.020 you know no no it's i agree that it's good i don't think that young men need to necessarily

00:30:57.100 go all the way to like you know piv sex but whatever you do yeah maybe there's other ways you could

00:31:04.460 build sort of sexual trophies other than full sexual intercourse what would that look like

00:31:11.260 intimacy i mean like you know hand jobs blow jobs like that's that's fine with me i mean it still

00:31:15.580 runs risk of like hurting it has all of the risks that you just and accusing no no no not pregnancy

00:31:23.340 not pregnancy that's a big one that to me is like the biggest risk of all like the idea of being on

00:31:28.780 the hook with child like so that is that is where i draw the line also i i feel like the risk of a

00:31:33.180 woman retroactively you know having a lot of problems a lot of women don't count hand jobs blow

00:31:39.420 jobs etc as sex so they could still consider themselves virgins and you know it's you know

00:31:44.380 i feel like you you cross an additional barrier when there is piv sex involved so i mean i'm still

00:31:50.380 saying there's a big risk and like but if you have to be intimate be intimate like people have been

00:31:54.940 intimate when sexual activity has been taboo for the longest time where they just like

00:32:02.060 do everything but piv sex you know i feel that makes sense well i love you simone this has been

00:32:07.980 a helpful conversation for me and i hope was enjoyable for our audience

00:32:20.220 you

Based Camp - November 22, 2023

Should We Slut Shame？

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