Based Camp - Surviving Mouse Utopia ｜ With Rudyard Lynch of What if Alt Hist

00:00:00.000 If you have ever interacted often with extremist religious types, like Amish people, for example. 0.98

00:00:04.580 I was going to say that.

00:00:05.640 Like, they seem to be more alive than most people that I've met, too.

00:00:09.340 Like, you just admit, and you're like, whoa.

00:00:11.180 Or, like, you'll get this from, like, really conservative Mormons as well.

00:00:14.120 To the extent where, like, it sometimes, like, throws people off a little.

00:00:17.120 Like, wow, you seem, like, genuinely happy.

00:00:19.700 I don't know if that's off-putting.

00:00:22.040 And people will say it is off-putting because they find these groups' vitality, a condemnation of themselves.

00:00:28.300 But when you meet somebody in a cult, like an extractive cult, you'll see that they seem kind of dead.

00:00:33.960 Like, they've got these fake smiles, but they're not really have any level of vitality to them.

00:00:38.900 And I think that what we have seen is our society has been taken over by one of these anti-vitality nihilistic cults.

00:00:48.480 And now the dangerous part, which really excited me in your video and you're addressing this as an issue, is those of us who still have a level of vitality, that are still happy with our lives, still excited about the future, are existentially threatening to the cult.

00:01:07.420 Because we cause pain.

00:01:08.720 We cause harm.

00:01:09.300 I mean, violence is emotional harm within leftist mindset.

00:01:11.960 You know, what happens next?

00:01:13.940 What happened in Mouse Utopia?

00:01:15.760 Would you like to know more?

00:01:16.800 It is so wonderful.

00:01:19.700 Simone and I today have Rubyard with us.

00:01:22.040 He's the guy who runs the What If All His channel.

00:01:25.200 Anyone who hasn't seen that channel, you know, it has millions of subscribers.

00:01:28.780 It is, I think, one of the best channels now.

00:01:32.960 I mean, you're like 21, man.

00:01:34.580 Like, I am jealous, but not jealous in a way where, like, sometimes I look at someone and I'm like, their videos are, like, not as good as mine.

00:01:41.400 Like, how are they so big?

00:01:43.080 I was going through your video recently, one on the Mouse Utopia experiments.

00:01:46.880 And I think we've talked on this in the past.

00:01:48.540 And I was like, wow, this is much better than anything I could have created on this subject.

00:01:52.460 And I really love you as a thinker.

00:01:54.980 Like, we talk regularly.

00:01:56.060 Obviously, I find really aligned with your thinking on most things.

00:02:01.060 And it's funny.

00:02:01.580 A lot of people know, you know, we are in, well, I'll get to this later.

00:02:06.100 But what I wanted to focus on was the nihilist mice in the Mouse Utopia experiment.

00:02:10.880 And, one, to defend against them and their relation to the left.

00:02:15.720 So, I'm going to go into this video assuming the audience broadly knows about the Mouse Utopia experiment.

00:02:20.640 Mice, given anything they want, ended up coalescing into urban-like clusters.

00:02:25.800 And then doing a lot of behavior that looks a lot like our society today.

00:02:30.120 And then their fertility rate collapsed and their society died.

00:02:33.200 But what was really interesting, and I'll let you lay out this behavior, is this, when mice tried to continue to live the old ways, they were victimized.

00:02:42.860 So, I'd like you to talk about this, why you think this happened, and the correlates you see to society today.

00:02:47.640 And then we can discuss how we might defend against it.

00:02:49.620 Thank you.

00:02:50.620 First of all, thank you so much for having me.

00:02:52.460 And I'm glad to be here.

00:02:53.960 And the way I'll answer your question is that I do a lot of thinking not part of what if I'll test, that operates in the back.

00:03:02.200 And I gradually filtered that into what if I'll test.

00:03:05.500 And one of the conclusions I've come to is that the soul does exist.

00:03:09.520 And the reason I believe that, and this will lead to what you're saying, because only through understanding the existence of the soul are you capable of seeing how nihilism can take root.

00:03:17.960 And I came to the conclusion the soul exists partly due to projection, where if you're projecting your inner flaws upon the external world, that means there is a part of your mind that is aware of what your inner flaws are.

00:03:30.800 And if you look over history, animals do things that are not rational or in their self-interest.

00:03:37.720 And the way I like to see mouse utopia is that you can have multiple tiers of causation for the exact same event.

00:03:43.920 For example, the fall of Rome.

00:03:45.500 You can find about five different things that caused the fall of Rome, and it's almost a Rorschach test for which variables you choose to tease out and are most important.

00:03:56.060 And with mouse utopia, you can see it starting upon multiple levels of causation, one being you could look at an ecosystem perspective where the ecosystem needs to reset because if one form of life expands exponentially large, it will hurt the entire ecosystem.

00:04:14.140 But when you look at the nihilism for the mouse utopia, there are multiple levels of causation.

00:04:20.180 One level of causation is that once you are in a pre-established wealthy society, there is no incentive to cooperate.

00:04:30.920 So the incentive is to free ride, and that results in negative nihilism because the endpoint of free riding is saying that the non-free riders are bad.

00:04:41.940 So nihilism is a way of preventing other people from stopping you from free riding so that you can basically do whatever you want.

00:04:50.800 The problem, though, is you hit tragedy at the common situations where if everyone's trying to stop trying to free ride, there's nothing to free ride off.

00:04:59.140 And I also think that past a certain point, people get resentful.

00:05:03.680 If you've reached a certain point in nihilism, you were emotional.

00:05:06.880 You get resentful against the people who are not like you.

00:05:10.480 And so it becomes this recursive thing where you hate the reminder that you're doing something wrong.

00:05:15.980 And with the mouse utopia experiment, something that I find very interesting is the thing that kills the other mice is not the mice not having kids.

00:05:24.780 It's the nihilist mice killing those who do have kids.

00:05:28.220 Oh, God.

00:05:30.080 Before you go further, I want to highlight these ideas you've had because I think they are so powerful.

00:05:35.060 And they're really, really like not things to just grow.

00:05:38.760 So within all social animals, whether it's human or mice or anything like that, you're going to get some level of self-consciousness, it appears.

00:05:46.960 And this is one of the things that surprised you when you were first looking at the experiment is how similar the mice were to humans in many ways when we think of them as being such simple animals to the extent where if I'm a human and I am living off the state because no human wants to see themselves as a bad person.

00:06:01.820 Or if I am a mouse and I'm just living completely indulgently without thinking about the future of my civilization or anything like that.

00:06:06.840 Like that's not really how mice are working, but kind of like that.

00:06:09.900 But if I'm a human and I'm just living completely off the state, I need to justify this behavioral pattern.

00:06:15.320 And so I justify it in two ways.

00:06:18.620 First, with nihilism.

00:06:20.300 Nothing really matters because it is not constructive to live off the state.

00:06:24.340 So the only value hierarchy that can justify this behavior pattern is nihilism.

00:06:29.480 And then I begin to, I look at the people who are still putting in the effort and they are a reminder to me.

00:06:37.080 Like in leftist thought, their existence or their ideology causes violence to me, where violence is defined by anything that causes emotional pain.

00:06:46.460 And it's causing this emotional pain because it's reminding the part of you that is still sane that what you are doing is indolent and self-indulgent.

00:06:55.300 And so then you project the hatred out on these other communities and you begin to demonize these communities.

00:07:04.520 And then this demonization, and I know I'm just repeating everything you say, but I want to really make sure this sinks in for people because it's so powerful, creates a loop.

00:07:12.780 And in this loop, you see these other groups who have maintained these old ways of doing things or these more natural ways of doing things.

00:07:20.260 And they are still happy with their lives. Like they have kids, they are engaged, they have partners.

00:07:25.720 And you have descended into this cycle of self-hatred, which is a result of nihilism and a result of knowing that you're not actually living for anything other than yourself.

00:07:35.940 And this cycle gets worse and worse and worse over time. And then what? Continue. Sorry, I just...

00:07:42.280 You explained that very well. And the thing which worries me so much about Mass Utopia is that it has very close historical parallels.

00:07:50.900 Where a method I use to determine... Because you get studies all the time. Most studies are never verified.

00:07:56.260 They're just scientists can just make stuff up and they'll never be called out for it.

00:07:59.700 And the thing that scares me about Mass Utopia is the parallels you can draw to so many other historic societies, where if you read authors going back to Herodotus, you see that this pattern of society is growing wealthy, losing their values, and then collapsing into decadence and getting conquered.

00:08:15.940 It's just something that's happened to each of the major civilizations, whether Rome, whether the Mayans, the Persians, the Chinese, whatever.

00:08:22.480 And the thing that I find scary is that we are in the West today at a level of wealth much higher than any of those other societies.

00:08:31.900 So would it not go to reason that we'd have a higher level of decadence?

00:08:35.220 And I think the point that Malcolm was jumping off when we started this is that I said in the video that the thing that shocked me about the new left, because I'll compare my predictions from year to year.

00:08:45.480 And as of four years ago, I was able to predict the left would go crazy, because I looked at social justice, I looked at the institutions they ran, and I realized there was no feedback loop inside social justice to sanity.

00:08:56.700 The thing, though, is that we have 100 years of track record of leftist insanity already.

00:09:01.700 Look to Cuba, look to Russia, look at China, look at Venezuela.

00:09:04.260 And this current leftist insanity, it's nihilistic, which is fascinating, because the left should in abstract be an incredibly optimistic philosophy, since they believe utopia is around the corner.

00:09:17.560 But our left has no positive vision of the world.

00:09:20.480 It's just don't.

00:09:21.860 And the thing that really shocks me is Western society is committing social suicide.

00:09:25.440 And I believe this to be most pronounced in North Europe, where Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany, they bring in millions of immigrants, and a lot of these countries, they'll be half non-native population by 2050 if things don't change, or half of their children, half of the young will not be native population by 2050.

00:09:43.040 And the thing that really shocked me is degrowth, where I just can't wrap my head around why degrowth is an idea.

00:09:49.800 Because if you look at it from a climate perspective, if the Netherlands just stopped being an economy, it doesn't matter.

00:09:57.140 China is going to keep doing coal.

00:09:59.420 You could nuke the entirety of Northern Europe, and it wouldn't affect the economy, the world's carbon emissions by that much.

00:10:05.640 And furthermore, these are the kinds of countries that would develop the future climate technology.

00:10:09.440 And so, using the left's own chain of logic, there is no justification for the suicide of their societies, except it just being a rationalization for them being suicidal.

00:10:20.500 Well, I love, in the video, you also talked about the erasure of their own history and culture identity, in the tearing down of statues, in the tearing down of traditional forms of artistic medium.

00:10:30.720 And one of the things that you said in the video, which chilled people, it was one of your top comments, and I agree with it, is that we have stopped producing art.

00:10:37.900 You had mentioned that when you watch movies today, they don't seem as dynamic, like people don't seem as alive as they did in previous movies.

00:10:46.560 They seem sort of odd and robotic, almost like the souls have left of their body.

00:10:51.100 I'd love you to elaborate on the hits first, too.

00:10:53.620 I'm glad you pulled this out, because that's one of my favorite things I said in the video.

00:10:58.260 And I'm happy that people teased it out.

00:11:01.220 But I don't watch cable TV.

00:11:03.800 I don't have it in my house.

00:11:04.840 The only time I do watch cable TV is when I'm at the gym.

00:11:08.020 And so I'll watch Fox News or MSNBC or whatever content they're showing on the gym TV.

00:11:15.620 And it's crazy where I have a good friend of mine who's, I have two friends of mine.

00:11:20.560 One is a professional linguistics expert.

00:11:22.800 The other is a professional body language expert.

00:11:25.740 And so I've heard a lot of stuff from them.

00:11:27.620 And it's crazy where if you look at interviews from 40 years ago, 50 years ago, everyone's so alive.

00:11:34.780 It's like you can tell there's a person in there.

00:11:36.500 And now if you look at the TV today, people don't move their heads right.

00:11:42.440 They don't express that their facial faces that much.

00:11:45.840 It's like they're puppets.

00:11:47.240 And I know that sounds paranoid, but look at how a puppet moves their body.

00:11:51.060 It's very robotic.

00:11:52.720 And I think one of, for you who don't know me as a person, one of my massive hobbies outside of What If Altist is pop music.

00:12:01.440 I listen to several hours of music every day.

00:12:05.480 I listen to a bunch of different music genres.

00:12:07.760 And since the Trump presidency, and I'm just picking that year as an arbitrary date, and I don't think it had anything to actually do with Trump.

00:12:14.920 The level of artistic creativity in music has just crashed.

00:12:20.120 I don't see any new genres.

00:12:21.920 All the content, all the musicians I liked have gone crazy across our entire society.

00:12:27.240 We don't make new movies anymore.

00:12:28.860 All our movies are reboots of earlier movies.

00:12:31.700 All of the musical sound today is taking sounds from the 80s and then rehashing it.

00:12:37.800 I read history.

00:12:38.660 I loved history because it was one of the few fields where you could expect a genuinely good quality of work.

00:12:45.060 And since COVID, the new history books that come out, they're more derivative than what came before.

00:12:50.700 So the last field, which I used as a benchmark for this is something which keeps working, has stopped working.

00:12:57.000 And what does our society do anymore?

00:12:59.880 I'm asking that as a real question.

00:13:01.480 I want to touch on something you said here, because when you talk about people seeming like off, it's definitely something I've noticed as well.

00:13:09.900 And it reminds me, when you encounter a group that's radically different culturally, you'll often notice either you'll seem to have less life than the society around them or more life than the society around them.

00:13:21.320 If you have ever interacted often with, I think, sort of extremist religious types like Amish people, for example. 1.00

00:13:26.880 I was going to say that.

00:13:27.500 Like, they seem to be more alive than most people that I've met, too.

00:13:31.660 Like, you just admit, and you're like, whoa.

00:13:33.400 Or, like, you'll get this from, like, really conservative Mormons as well.

00:13:36.520 To the extent where, like, it sometimes, like, throws people off a little.

00:13:39.380 Like, wow, you seem, like, genuinely happy.

00:13:42.000 I don't know if that's off-putting.

00:13:44.340 And people will say it is off-putting because they find these groups' vitality a condemnation of themselves.

00:13:51.520 But when you meet somebody in a cult, like an extractive cult, you'll see that they seem kind of dead.

00:13:57.180 Like, they've got these fake smiles, but they're not really have any level of vitality to them.

00:14:01.500 And I think that what we have seen is our society has been taken over by one of these anti-vitality nihilistic cults.

00:14:11.700 And now the dangerous part, which really excited me in your video and you're addressing this as an issue, is those of us who still have a level of vitality, that are still happy with our lives, still excited about the future, are existentially threatening to the cult.

00:14:30.640 Because we cause pain.

00:14:31.940 We cause harm.

00:14:32.520 I mean, violence is emotional harm within leftist mindset.

00:14:35.200 You know, what happens next?

00:14:37.140 What happened in Mouse Utopia?

00:14:38.520 What happens to us?

00:14:40.420 And what are your plans for how to get around this?

00:14:43.480 Good.

00:14:44.000 So to jump off your point, what you've said about religious people, traditional conservative religious people seeming more alive is true.

00:14:50.440 When I'm traveling to the Middle East, that's obvious.

00:14:52.800 Going to Egypt, people seem a lot more alive.

00:14:56.020 Moving from California, I spent a couple months in California, now I'm in Texas.

00:15:00.520 People are much more alive in Texas than they are in California.

00:15:03.400 And the thing that I find interesting is everything we project onto the Victorian period or the 1950s is a reflection of our own society.

00:15:12.300 Where if you read Victorian literature, we pretend the Victorian period is puritanical, emotionally stunted, repressive, and cold.

00:15:22.880 And you read books from the 19th century, that's clearly not true.

00:15:26.060 It's a very emotional, dramatic society.

00:15:28.220 I actually think the 19th century, it had romanticism.

00:15:31.460 It was a significantly more emotional society than today.

00:15:34.100 But because our society is built in opposition to that, we project our failings upon that, where I think we are actually a very unemotional and cold and stunted society.

00:15:46.240 And so to jump back to the point you asked me, the thing that terrifies me about Mass Utopia is things have to get worse.

00:15:55.800 Where I imagine it like a treadmill, and the treadmill now is going really fast, and there's no way out except for these institutions to burn down.

00:16:06.520 Because you look at academia, you look at Hollywood, you look at these corporations, there is no counter to wokeness.

00:16:13.100 No one will take over.

00:16:15.180 You would basically need to have a revolution or a coup d'etat that would wipe out the establishment.

00:16:20.120 And I've said in a previous video that I think there's a solid chance that would happen.

00:16:25.440 But all the major institutions of our society are run, and of course, I do not condone that.

00:16:31.800 I am not launching a revolution.

00:16:32.440 He's not condoning revolution.

00:16:34.040 He's just saying if a revolution starts, consider him for a thought leadership position.

00:16:40.520 That's not what I said, Malcolm.

00:16:42.220 Okay, okay, okay, okay.

00:16:44.700 I live a peaceful life now.

00:16:46.760 But, but what I was going to say is that.

00:16:52.380 No, no, the mice in the Mass Utopia, they started to target the other mice.

00:16:57.080 And we might begin to see that, a direct targeting of the people who are still.

00:17:01.200 Yes.

00:17:04.520 Well, and I can elaborate, because this is something that we've talked about offline, and I find it really interesting.

00:17:09.260 Because I think that we, you and I, represent two extremes that are actually opposed to each other.

00:17:17.160 But it's the same solution to the larger societal problems.

00:17:21.080 Which is that we need cohesive, new cohesive cultural groups to fight against what's coming if we want any form of protection.

00:17:28.300 And what's really interesting, and where I would point my followers to your channel, is people know that we're trying to start, like, a new cohesive group, like Simone and I, or, like, religious denominational system.

00:17:40.240 But it is incredibly anti-mystic.

00:17:42.200 And you are doing, you have, like, a similar sort of a project, but it is incredibly, I'd say, like, pro-mystic.

00:17:49.160 And it's the smartest of the pro-mystic takes I've ever seen.

00:17:52.380 You're too kind.

00:17:52.940 So for our audience, who was put off by our anti-mystic state, his next video, which I'm excited to see, is on this time when the CIA.

00:18:00.820 Let me say it to you, actually.

00:18:02.060 I've made this video already.

00:18:03.380 It's just getting approved.

00:18:05.040 Oh.

00:18:05.440 Yeah.

00:18:07.140 So talk about it.

00:18:07.920 So I, for you who don't know me as a person, I am very much into mysticism, and it's something I study a lot in my free time.

00:18:17.380 And one of the things I've been looking to is the research on psychics and the CIA and the spirit world, where the CIA had decades' worth of research into the spirit world, where they found that it was a real place.

00:18:31.020 And they got hundreds of people to visit it on repeat.

00:18:33.940 And the military's assessment of the CIA's science was that it was all correct.

00:18:37.920 The Soviets had their own version of this, which found the same results.

00:18:42.140 And my take is that if every major society in history agrees on this, with the 20th century being the one exception, and then the 20th century found it to be real, I personally find that to be compelling evidence.

00:18:55.280 I know this is something Malcolm and I disagree on, and we're allowed to disagree, but I think our society is so cold and impersonal, and why do we do anything?

00:19:08.920 That's something I feel in the subconscious of our society, that we don't have a sense of why we're living life.

00:19:18.480 And I think that's something that we very much need, and without it, we're going crazy.

00:19:23.080 I was reading a book by an Orthodox theologian who said, the modern world is divided between those who try to constantly numb themselves to its meaninglessness, and those who realize it and go crazy.

00:19:35.300 Yeah.

00:19:35.920 So what I find so interesting about your thought is it is a form of mysticism and mystical thinking that I think is very compatible with industry and industrial and artistic productivity.

00:19:45.840 I mean, I am a plaker.

00:19:47.160 That's like the – or I grew up a plaker.

00:19:49.860 That's where those two meet.

00:19:50.820 But I think that the way that you accomplish this is very interesting in your thought pattern, is that the mystical traditions which end up going towards indolence are based around, like, secrecy and hierarchy, where you have mystical traditions which are dripped down through a hierarchy through a level of, like, secrecy, whereas your mystical traditions, they approach everything like an investigation or a conspiracy almost.

00:20:16.300 Like, these things are out there for anyone to find, but it is up to every individual to find them in multiple places.

00:20:24.320 There are no, like, keepers of knowledge or anything like that.

00:20:27.320 Yes.

00:20:27.720 And I think that combining it with, like, actual science and investigative history is actually very similar to the forms of mysticism we saw within productive Victorian period.

00:20:38.900 Like, Isaac Newton, he was a mystic, but he wasn't, like, a general mystic.

00:20:43.220 He was, like, an occultist who would, like, research old texts and everything like that.

00:20:47.120 But anyway, yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

00:20:48.460 Thank you.

00:20:49.260 I think the truth is a cone.

00:20:51.280 And one of the points I make in the video, when I talk to the CI and the spirit world, is what these researchers found is there's a geography to the spirit world.

00:20:58.640 Where there are parts of the spirit world that appear Abrahamic, there are parts that appear Indic, parts that appear, like, reincarnation.

00:21:04.840 So I don't believe there's contradiction between the major world's religions.

00:21:08.420 I think they're touching a shared truth in different contexts that are useful to their society.

00:21:14.280 And I don't want to lionize religion and say it's perfect, because the problem is that we can all get fuzzy and agree on that.

00:21:22.860 But once you actually have to apply it to the real human world and politics, that's when things get messy.

00:21:29.240 Where, ironically, the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims are theologically very similar.

00:21:34.480 Once you get to the details, though, that's where the pain starts.

00:21:38.380 And so I do believe there's this shared truth.

00:21:41.460 But the truth, you have to, imagine you have to clean out your attic.

00:21:44.500 You go into the attic, you flash it, use a flashlight there.

00:21:47.560 And if you're not going to shine light upon your attic, you're not going to clean anything.

00:21:54.060 And with these occult traditions that are negative, what you're basically doing is taking people up to the attic, holding them in hand, then not showing them the light, so that they have to hold your hand in the attic to survive.

00:22:06.160 What the mystic tradition is, it flips the light switch.

00:22:09.640 I love this.

00:22:11.260 That's a good analogy.

00:22:13.240 That's very good.

00:22:14.040 Yeah.

00:22:14.920 You see why I like this?

00:22:15.840 For those who don't understand why we go so anti-mystic with our traditions, I really do recommend his video, Did the CIA Discover the Spirit World?

00:22:25.640 And I think it's a great example of where taking the mystical path can lead a very logical, smart individual in terms of getting them to circumvent what I would consider a reasonable amount of incredulity when engaging with information.

00:22:45.360 Rubier had actually texted us a comment that must have come from one of our watchers under the video, which was something along the lines of, oh dear, I hope Malcolm doesn't see this.

00:22:56.220 Which I think really shows, even if you are approaching mysticism from the perspective of the literal best approach to it, which I do think his approach is.

00:23:10.220 You know, this level of conspiratorial investigation makes the way he is structuring his belief system not particularly susceptible to individuals who want to use a person's belief system to control a person, which I really respect about it.

00:23:27.480 But it does burn about of his incredulity and logic.

00:23:33.400 For people to understand why we do not take any evidence of the spirit world from the studies that he's looking at here, we'll probably do a video debunking them at some point.

00:23:42.880 But I don't even know if they need to be debunked.

00:23:46.000 I think even just a logical and rational person watching his video from somebody who believes him can understand why somebody wouldn't.

00:23:54.860 I mean, the guy who was managing all of this research thought he directly was talking with God and was giving people information and saw demons and aliens and ghosts before any of this ever happened.

00:24:08.920 Well, I love that you are, you know, elevating this within some of your videos as a potential solution, because I really do think it is the only potential solution, is a return to theological framings of reality, but that break from the theological framings of the old.

00:24:24.780 In many ways, and I'll put a little clip here, the old religious traditions that are like, oh, we'll just do things in that pre-industrial way and this will protect our children from deconversion in the modern world.

00:24:35.560 It reminds me of that.

00:24:36.480 You think of what I'm thinking, partner?

00:24:37.560 Aim for the bushes. 0.97

00:24:51.980 It's like, no, that obviously isn't going to work.

00:24:54.920 The odds are so astronomical against you.

00:24:57.840 We need some level of adaptation and we need to all work together, no matter how different our beliefs are, because whatever those beliefs are, we're the people they're coming after.

00:25:06.820 I mean, there's clearly like the one big, bad, negative group.

00:25:10.820 Yes, I hate churchism, or churchism is the continuation of the ceremony of religion without God.

00:25:20.040 And I think most religion in our society is churchism, in that I think a lot of these people don't actually care or want God. 0.95

00:25:27.920 I think they use it as an excuse, but if you read the Bible, the God of the Bible is disgusting and insane, and it's not the white bread shirts that the Christians, that religious people now push. 0.96

00:25:41.020 But the problem is that the God of the Bible, that is a force that's in touch with the reality of how horrible life is and how crazy life is. 0.76

00:25:49.660 And so we've been trying too long to domesticate religion.

00:25:53.900 And I believe religions go through cycles where if you read about what it was like in the Roman Empire, all of the religions were incredibly sterile and political. 0.88

00:26:02.680 And if you were before the Axial Age, under the time of Buddha and Confucius and Plato, it was the same thing.

00:26:08.260 But you have to have these periodic returns of mysticism and chaos to offset the bureaucratization of a religion.

00:26:17.580 Well, someone, I want to hear from you because I've been monopolizing this.

00:26:21.840 Well, no, I just, what I find interesting and what I think is important for us to recognize is that what we have that the poor rodents in the mouse utopia experiments didn't have was places to hide.

00:26:34.980 They couldn't hide after a certain point.

00:26:37.200 There was no place where like the pernatalist, non-nihilistic mice could go.

00:26:41.960 I mean, I know the beautiful ones like hid away in some other weird place.

00:26:45.600 I can't remember.

00:26:46.140 But do we have places to hide?

00:26:48.300 I mean, this is something I always mention on this show.

00:26:50.520 The rise of the antinatalist left, it upends something in human history that we always knew.

00:26:55.640 There's the famous song, I don't know if you know the song, At Least the Russians Loved Their Children Too, you know, is the refrain.

00:27:01.640 My dad told me about that.

00:27:03.380 Yeah, this is something that we always knew in history.

00:27:05.140 At least the people who we're fighting against love their children too and want the world to keep existing.

00:27:10.820 We no longer have that belief.

00:27:12.940 It's not like we're fighting against doesn't have children and they want us all dead.

00:27:16.660 I think that a lot of why the pernatalist movement is so difficult to like quantify or contact is that the conclusion that most of them have come to is we really, really, really need to hide and be careful and not let anyone who know who we are, what we're building or what our movement or community is like, unless they are 100% definitely a trusted insider that we're going to network with in the future.

00:27:42.740 And I think that's a core part of what is going to enable these groups to move forward in a way that the like more normal prenatalist mice or rats could not.

00:27:55.740 Their secret base is going to be in Newark, New Jersey.

00:27:58.480 So you guys can keep tabs on that and look nowhere else.

00:28:01.140 And so in the video, I say there are three things you need to do to survive mouse utopia.

00:28:09.140 The first is that you need to have a sense of that the antinatalist people can't take over the government. 0.53

00:28:24.380 Because if they take over the government, they can kill anyone who's trying to survive and have children.

00:28:31.600 And that really worries me because if you look at mouse utopia, that's what happens.

00:28:36.240 And if the government's killing anyone who has children in America, the entire American nation, that's the only way they can die.

00:28:42.380 The second is you need to form communities out of the way of like-minded, sane people who can support each other.

00:28:49.040 And the third thing is you need religion because religion can provide external moral standards that you can convince a large part of the population to follow as a push against the chaos of the world.

00:29:08.040 I couldn't agree more.

00:29:09.380 And I think that's a great point to end on.

00:29:11.380 And we have been so excited to have you on.

00:29:13.860 I would really encourage people to go check out that episode of his.

00:29:17.760 And if you like it, then you need to keep going deep on his channel because he is a great thinker.

00:29:22.860 And keep in mind how young he is.

00:29:24.420 You know, this guy is already, I think, one of the leaders of the sort of growing new right thought movement.

00:29:31.340 And he's 21?

00:29:33.480 22. I'm about to turn 23.

00:29:35.080 Yeah, but that's – I think that's an important point is that you are also inspiring to us because you represent what humanity should be doing rather than what humanity is doing.

00:29:43.980 Yeah, but what we can go back to, quite frankly, again, like Benjamin Franklin was like fully like acting as though he were an early career adult of like age 12, 13.

00:29:53.180 And then by, you know, his 20s, he was, you know, a major leading thought leader.

00:29:57.560 And you were following that path.

00:29:58.860 And you were showing that like, oh, guess what?

00:30:00.520 You know, infantilization is not the norm.

00:30:03.140 And look at me.

00:30:04.100 And so we need you to continue to succeed and rise.

00:30:07.120 You flatter me.

00:30:07.860 I grew up in a place where Ben Franklin was taught like 10 times.

00:30:11.580 I'm from Philadelphia.

00:30:13.100 And so I heard about Ben Franklin like 10 times in my childhood.

00:30:16.480 Maybe that helped.

00:30:17.500 You know, because we – well, I mean, people are very suggestible.

00:30:20.640 And if we don't have role models, it's a lot harder to like realize that you're capable of something if you've never heard of someone else being capable of it.

00:30:27.360 I remember when I was a child, the only historic figure I had heard of was Martin Luther King because when I was six, that was the only person my school taught me about.

00:30:36.520 And I think – I don't dislike Martin Luther King.

00:30:39.260 I think he was a great man.

00:30:40.860 But we need to have a broader selection of role models to teach our children because –

00:30:46.820 I don't know.

00:30:47.220 That sounds racist to me.

00:30:49.740 It sounds like you're saying we need some white role models. 0.92

00:30:53.780 And I don't know if that is appropriate.

00:30:55.700 Let's develop a racial quota based upon the demographics of the country.

00:30:59.980 We can have six out of ten white Europeans.

00:31:03.200 We can have two Hispanics like Hernan Cortez, who was also a white European.

00:31:08.220 And we can have Martin Luther King for our 12% black population.

00:31:12.240 Well, or we can have what, you know, Gemini was trying to do before Google decided to apologize, which is just make the founding fathers black.

00:31:19.300 It's fine, okay?

00:31:20.480 Like, I mean, honestly, after looking at some of the images generated, I was like, yeah, this looks right.

00:31:24.580 It checks out.

00:31:25.220 Like, I can see George Washington is black now, you know?

00:31:28.160 And I just – I don't care.

00:31:29.440 I don't care.

00:31:31.060 But you keep doing what you're doing.

00:31:33.580 And we look forward to having you back on.

00:31:35.680 We'll have you back on.

00:31:36.500 All right.

00:31:36.760 Great.

00:31:37.000 Thank you.

00:31:37.700 Thank you.

00:31:37.720 Thank you.

Based Camp - March 14, 2024

Surviving Mouse Utopia ｜ With Rudyard Lynch of What if Alt Hist

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