Based Camp - March 04, 2024


Sweden's Pronatalism Fails： Just Like We Predicted


Episode Stats

Length

32 minutes

Words per Minute

188.70445

Word Count

6,169

Sentence Count

435

Misogynist Sentences

15

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary

In this episode, we talk about the fall in fertility rates in Sweden and why it s a good thing. We also talk about how Sweden has managed to keep pace with the rest of the developed world in terms of population growth.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Even men have become feminists.
00:00:01.700 The state supplies universal daycare
00:00:03.080 and flexible employment for mothers.
00:00:04.780 Fathers take up their share of domestic labor
00:00:06.400 and both parents are awarded generously
00:00:08.220 from their jobs to raise the next generation.
00:00:11.040 Across these countries
00:00:12.740 that had been implementing these policies,
00:00:14.860 they have begun to see their fertility crash.
00:00:17.660 And we told you.
00:00:21.860 But I want to hear you pontificate on this first.
00:00:26.700 I, yeah, this was very much
00:00:28.540 an I told you so kind of thing
00:00:29.560 because we're like, it's not the money.
00:00:30.820 It's not the money.
00:00:31.360 It's not the money.
00:00:31.880 It's the culture.
00:00:33.340 And here it is.
00:00:34.740 There's no exogenous celebration
00:00:37.060 of people being parents.
00:00:39.420 I think one of the big problems is
00:00:40.740 there's this dream
00:00:41.740 that you can have a pronatalist culture
00:00:43.300 and everyone can work
00:00:44.200 and everyone can participate in the modern economy
00:00:46.380 and identify as career people.
00:00:48.560 Would you like to know more?
00:00:49.860 Remember when we took that trip to Sweden
00:00:52.020 and you paid like $30 for a hot dog
00:00:55.500 and then we decided to stop eating?
00:00:58.400 Yeah, no, it's funny.
00:00:59.140 So we did this trip to Sweden
00:01:01.100 and I love the trip that we did there actually
00:01:03.360 because this was what Simone gives me
00:01:05.960 when she's giving me a trip.
00:01:07.000 Like we don't go on normal trips, I should say.
00:01:09.440 Before we went to Sweden, Simone had me, for me,
00:01:14.020 she emailed every one of the VCs
00:01:15.520 in the city we were visiting
00:01:17.040 and every one of the private equity company owners
00:01:18.820 and all of the famous startup people.
00:01:21.920 And so when we went there,
00:01:23.160 she just called email,
00:01:24.020 but you know, I have a Stanford MBA
00:01:25.140 and she was a Cambridge student at the time.
00:01:26.780 So a lot of them responded.
00:01:28.360 I mean, we would go to their offices
00:01:29.440 and we would see what they were working on
00:01:31.100 and everything like that.
00:01:32.320 And they know where all the good restaurants are.
00:01:34.380 Well, it's important to never allow yourself
00:01:36.280 to come to Indolence.
00:01:37.240 To do a trip just for idle curiosity,
00:01:39.660 I think is sinful.
00:01:41.580 And so while we can see the world,
00:01:43.680 we need to make sure that we learn
00:01:45.380 how to improve ourselves on these trips.
00:01:48.840 At this point, I was also trying to learn,
00:01:50.320 because working as a VC in South Korea,
00:01:51.660 how some small economies were doing well
00:01:55.260 with their venture capital investing
00:01:57.060 and others were not,
00:01:58.100 because this was very interesting to me,
00:01:59.800 like why you would get some economies
00:02:01.900 creating these giant companies.
00:02:03.120 And just for TLDR of your theory,
00:02:04.580 which I think is very astute,
00:02:06.180 is that basically for a country's startup economy
00:02:10.300 to work well,
00:02:11.000 if they're relatively small
00:02:12.280 and they eventually have to leave,
00:02:14.260 they can't be,
00:02:15.740 they can't have a sufficiently compelling market
00:02:18.180 like South Korea does,
00:02:19.640 because then basically you go big
00:02:21.880 in your own home market,
00:02:23.240 but never really make yourself ready
00:02:25.220 for an international market.
00:02:26.680 If you have a very, very, very small market
00:02:28.720 like that in Sweden,
00:02:30.220 you immediately have to be international
00:02:31.960 from day one.
00:02:32.940 You need to be so small
00:02:34.720 that the first market you are attempting
00:02:36.620 is an international market.
00:02:38.220 So this means that,
00:02:39.440 this is why areas like Germany and France
00:02:41.500 have such bad startup marketplaces,
00:02:44.680 whereas you get much higher ones in Finland,
00:02:47.240 Sweden, Estonia,
00:02:48.180 stuff like that,
00:02:48.800 because they're so small
00:02:49.880 that the initial market
00:02:51.100 needs to be somewhere else.
00:02:52.540 I think that was a very astute observation
00:02:54.780 on your part.
00:02:56.240 Yeah, well, I appreciate it.
00:02:58.260 So anyway, we go there.
00:02:59.400 The food there is so expensive,
00:03:00.600 it's obscene.
00:03:01.120 We were starving the whole time, basically.
00:03:02.520 I would only eat street food
00:03:03.660 when I was there,
00:03:04.220 or food that the people we were meeting
00:03:05.500 would give us.
00:03:06.100 We ate like cans
00:03:06.820 that we got at the grocery store,
00:03:08.340 but that was okay.
00:03:10.200 Also, this is mostly why, you know,
00:03:11.780 Swedish people are not dreadfully obese,
00:03:14.700 because they can't afford it.
00:03:16.920 Can't afford it.
00:03:18.180 But anyway,
00:03:18.860 I want to talk more
00:03:20.400 on the topic of falling fertility rates
00:03:22.160 in Sweden,
00:03:22.520 because a lot of,
00:03:23.380 for a while,
00:03:23.940 this narrative had existed
00:03:25.040 that in the Nordic countries,
00:03:27.400 in this land of gender equality,
00:03:28.980 there seemed to be
00:03:30.360 some level of resistance
00:03:31.400 to fertility collapse
00:03:32.560 that wasn't seen in countries,
00:03:35.660 you know,
00:03:35.920 like the Catholic countries
00:03:36.900 of Southern Europe,
00:03:37.580 which had lower fertility rates.
00:03:39.200 And so every progressive pointed to it,
00:03:40.560 like,
00:03:40.700 Sweden proves
00:03:42.380 that you can have
00:03:43.500 a very progressive gender policy.
00:03:45.480 You can have men and women
00:03:46.320 treated the same.
00:03:47.140 You can have really heavy socialist policy.
00:03:49.640 I can read this quote
00:03:49.920 from an article on this, right?
00:03:52.040 Even men have become feminists.
00:03:53.700 The state supplies universal daycare
00:03:55.100 and flexible employment
00:03:55.920 for mothers.
00:03:56.820 Fathers take up
00:03:57.420 their share of domestic labor,
00:03:58.660 and both parents
00:03:59.380 are awarded generously
00:04:00.220 from their jobs
00:04:01.380 to raise the next generation.
00:04:03.060 As one 2015 study claimed,
00:04:04.920 it is precisely in quote
00:04:06.520 extraordinarily equal
00:04:08.220 unquote Sweden
00:04:09.500 where family-friendly
00:04:11.180 public policies
00:04:12.300 are especially effective.
00:04:14.380 That we supposedly see
00:04:16.400 how quote
00:04:17.160 the spread of more egalitarian values
00:04:19.600 on the national level
00:04:20.560 and more progressive
00:04:21.560 family-supported policies
00:04:22.800 will have a positive effect
00:04:24.860 on fertility
00:04:25.400 and family stability
00:04:26.680 end quote.
00:04:27.440 The problem is,
00:04:29.780 I guess I'll get to
00:04:30.880 where we are now.
00:04:31.980 Since 2021,
00:04:33.460 the number of births
00:04:34.340 in Sweden
00:04:34.680 is down more than 12%,
00:04:35.980 and the fertility rate
00:04:37.120 has fallen by almost 14%.
00:04:38.920 The country's 2023
00:04:40.760 total fertility rate,
00:04:42.300 a projection of lifetime fertility
00:04:43.560 of all women
00:04:44.220 in a particular year,
00:04:45.700 will surely think
00:04:46.480 below 1.5 children per woman.
00:04:49.220 That's catastrophically low.
00:04:51.180 Marriage rates too
00:04:52.020 have been falling in Sweden
00:04:52.820 for 15 years,
00:04:54.040 precipitously since 2016,
00:04:56.240 and marital unions
00:04:57.080 aren't being replaced
00:04:58.180 by long-term cohabitation.
00:04:59.860 Since the Swedish state
00:05:00.640 began counting such
00:05:01.900 quote unquote
00:05:02.500 consensual unions
00:05:03.460 in 2011,
00:05:04.340 there has been
00:05:05.140 a steady decline
00:05:05.920 in their rate of formation.
00:05:07.280 Most notable
00:05:08.120 are the falling rates
00:05:09.360 of marriage
00:05:09.920 and union formation
00:05:11.340 among parents
00:05:12.300 in 2021.
00:05:13.900 They were doing so
00:05:14.740 at rates of around
00:05:15.600 half the level
00:05:16.260 of just a decade earlier.
00:05:18.100 Fertility and family formation
00:05:19.360 are declining in Norway
00:05:20.220 and Finland
00:05:20.660 even more dramatically.
00:05:22.240 France's 2023
00:05:23.420 fertility figures
00:05:24.380 are especially troubling
00:05:25.340 in the light of the country's
00:05:26.280 recent ability
00:05:26.940 to buck falling fertility
00:05:28.180 trends across Europe.
00:05:29.040 generally credited
00:05:30.520 to its huge
00:05:31.900 family policy budget
00:05:33.240 which amounts
00:05:33.920 to 3.4%
00:05:35.180 of GDP
00:05:35.620 in 2019.
00:05:37.400 So, wow.
00:05:38.380 So, you know,
00:05:38.760 these are measured
00:05:39.500 in chunks
00:05:40.360 of GDP
00:05:41.100 and across
00:05:43.200 these countries
00:05:44.360 that had been
00:05:45.060 implementing
00:05:45.440 these policies,
00:05:46.180 they have begun
00:05:47.320 to see their
00:05:47.840 fertility crash.
00:05:49.380 And
00:05:49.980 we told you.
00:05:52.340 But I want to hear
00:05:54.100 you pontificate
00:05:54.760 on this first.
00:05:58.400 I, yeah,
00:05:59.200 this was very much
00:06:00.160 an I told you so
00:06:00.780 kind of thing
00:06:01.180 because we're like
00:06:01.720 it's not the money,
00:06:02.420 it's not the money,
00:06:02.960 it's not the money,
00:06:03.460 it's the culture
00:06:03.980 and here it is.
00:06:06.360 There's no
00:06:07.220 exogenous celebration
00:06:08.620 of people
00:06:09.680 being parents.
00:06:11.040 I think one of the
00:06:11.640 big problems
00:06:12.080 is there's this dream
00:06:13.360 that you can have
00:06:14.000 a pronatalist culture
00:06:14.920 and everyone can work
00:06:15.820 and everyone can participate
00:06:16.820 in the modern economy
00:06:18.000 and identify
00:06:18.940 as career people.
00:06:20.060 And we really saw that
00:06:21.020 when we visited.
00:06:21.920 You know,
00:06:22.040 there was a lot of that,
00:06:22.840 you know,
00:06:22.940 like, well,
00:06:23.240 no,
00:06:23.380 we're all like
00:06:23.980 very serious people.
00:06:25.060 We work really,
00:06:25.800 really hard,
00:06:26.560 but then,
00:06:26.880 you know,
00:06:27.020 we solve our families,
00:06:28.000 et cetera.
00:06:29.500 But I think this focus
00:06:31.280 on the industrial economy
00:06:35.040 is kind of a core thing
00:06:36.660 that was missed
00:06:37.340 because when you focus
00:06:38.320 on that,
00:06:39.340 you are ultimately punished
00:06:40.800 not only for having kids,
00:06:42.820 but also for getting married,
00:06:43.700 which is also,
00:06:44.380 I think it was,
00:06:44.960 it's really important
00:06:46.420 to highlight
00:06:47.540 that marriage
00:06:48.440 and even just like
00:06:49.700 unions between people
00:06:51.040 that are long lasting
00:06:51.620 that aren't even
00:06:52.880 necessarily marriages
00:06:54.080 are plummeting too
00:06:55.500 because these just
00:06:57.120 aren't things
00:06:57.820 that get you ahead
00:06:58.820 in society in Sweden.
00:07:00.440 And if you create
00:07:01.460 a society in which
00:07:02.360 you don't get lauded,
00:07:03.600 you're not celebrated,
00:07:04.580 you're not like
00:07:05.140 the cool people
00:07:05.900 for getting married
00:07:07.420 and or having kids,
00:07:08.500 you're not going to do it
00:07:10.520 because you're not an idiot.
00:07:12.300 And I just,
00:07:13.460 yeah,
00:07:13.720 it's sad
00:07:15.580 and it's frustrating,
00:07:16.540 but it is,
00:07:17.620 we would argue
00:07:18.700 more confirmation
00:07:19.520 that culture
00:07:20.180 is at the core
00:07:21.060 of this issue,
00:07:21.920 the very,
00:07:22.440 very core.
00:07:23.860 Yeah.
00:07:24.500 Well,
00:07:24.940 so I have a lot
00:07:26.120 of friends
00:07:26.400 who were Swedish
00:07:26.800 when I was in college
00:07:27.800 because I went to college
00:07:28.520 in the UK
00:07:28.960 and it was a,
00:07:29.960 you know,
00:07:30.100 St. Andrew is a uniquely
00:07:30.920 diverse in terms
00:07:32.200 of the countries
00:07:32.640 that people went to.
00:07:33.160 So I had a number
00:07:33.540 of Swedish friends.
00:07:34.640 And one of the things
00:07:35.100 they marked to me
00:07:35.720 that I remember
00:07:36.100 finding interesting
00:07:36.720 is that they never
00:07:37.560 really planned
00:07:38.120 on getting married,
00:07:38.820 my Swedish friends.
00:07:39.440 They explained
00:07:39.760 that culturally
00:07:40.380 it wasn't normal
00:07:41.440 that it was in
00:07:42.760 their generation
00:07:43.340 to get married.
00:07:43.960 You know,
00:07:44.220 you would meet someone
00:07:45.280 and you would do
00:07:45.660 this cohabitation thing
00:07:46.820 that they were describing
00:07:47.800 in the article,
00:07:48.340 but marriage wasn't
00:07:49.260 something they expected
00:07:49.940 from their lives.
00:07:52.040 And this is one
00:07:52.660 of those areas
00:07:53.180 where I feel like
00:07:53.800 as we have gotten rid
00:07:54.860 of these old structures
00:07:55.900 like marriage,
00:07:57.260 we at first are like,
00:07:58.780 what's the point?
00:07:59.280 I mean,
00:07:59.480 you can have kids
00:08:00.080 outside of marriage.
00:08:00.840 You can have,
00:08:01.540 you know,
00:08:02.440 it's so many of these,
00:08:03.820 I forget what it's called,
00:08:04.560 the something fence.
00:08:05.660 It's so many of these fences
00:08:06.660 that we just removed.
00:08:07.460 Chesterton's fence?
00:08:08.000 Chesterton fence.
00:08:08.840 Like we don't know
00:08:09.440 why the fence is there,
00:08:10.320 so let's just get rid of it.
00:08:11.700 And then we are now learning
00:08:13.140 why all of these
00:08:14.020 cultural fences were there,
00:08:16.080 why we did these things.
00:08:18.440 I think so often in society,
00:08:20.320 people will say,
00:08:21.640 why did people do this thing
00:08:23.040 that seemed to hurt
00:08:23.700 some people?
00:08:24.600 Why did people slut shame?
00:08:26.220 Why did people pressure Spencers?
00:08:28.400 Like why did they so degrade
00:08:29.660 women who didn't get married?
00:08:31.200 Why did people laud mothers?
00:08:33.020 Why did we give men
00:08:35.500 special roles in society?
00:08:36.860 Why like,
00:08:38.600 typically if something
00:08:39.540 seems grossly unfair
00:08:41.280 or seems to be
00:08:42.800 making people unhappy,
00:08:43.500 like why did we regularly
00:08:44.600 have to fast?
00:08:45.560 It turns out that we were
00:08:47.000 doing it for a reason.
00:08:48.680 And I think that this is
00:08:49.720 just broadly something
00:08:51.000 that we're seeing
00:08:51.700 across society right now
00:08:53.600 is that a lot of these
00:08:54.940 cultures that thought
00:08:55.940 that they could culturally
00:08:58.120 innovate in so far
00:08:59.540 as just removing rules.
00:09:01.780 Removing rules
00:09:02.560 isn't cultural innovation.
00:09:04.460 Removing rules
00:09:05.440 is to cultural innovation
00:09:07.460 what tearing down a building,
00:09:09.860 like putting a wrecking ball
00:09:10.800 through a building
00:09:11.520 is to architecture.
00:09:14.580 It's not cultural innovation.
00:09:16.220 It's just destroying things.
00:09:18.400 And then you reap
00:09:19.020 consequences of that.
00:09:20.340 And as we have pointed out,
00:09:21.200 you cannot pay people
00:09:22.520 to have kids.
00:09:23.500 And I'm going to get this
00:09:24.260 to the Korean numbers
00:09:25.120 because it's like
00:09:25.660 people do not get this.
00:09:28.440 They keep trying to pay.
00:09:30.140 So in another article
00:09:31.320 that came out recently
00:09:32.340 in Korea,
00:09:33.780 they're now giving out
00:09:35.940 $20,000
00:09:38.280 or $22,000 per kit
00:09:41.360 to increase fertility rates
00:09:43.980 in subsidies
00:09:45.200 and stuff like that.
00:09:46.000 That is so wild.
00:09:46.640 So we are now
00:09:47.760 entering the stage
00:09:48.660 where I think a lot of people
00:09:49.360 are like,
00:09:49.820 what if you tried
00:09:50.740 meaningful cash subsidies?
00:09:52.720 Like enough
00:09:53.240 that would make a difference.
00:09:54.120 Yeah, and that's
00:09:54.540 a hefty chunk of change.
00:09:55.720 And is that up front?
00:09:58.000 It's subsidies and stuff.
00:09:59.200 So not exactly.
00:10:00.780 I mean, most economists
00:10:01.880 argue that it's most effective
00:10:03.200 when it's up front.
00:10:04.060 But anyway,
00:10:04.900 let's not quibble about that
00:10:06.340 right now.
00:10:06.900 Let's not quibble about it.
00:10:07.440 I mean, they've spent
00:10:08.240 $22 billion in the last 16 years
00:10:10.020 on trying to get
00:10:10.540 their fertility rates up.
00:10:11.660 And it doesn't work.
00:10:13.580 You cannot do this.
00:10:14.700 You must do
00:10:15.320 cultural innovation.
00:10:16.660 But again,
00:10:17.320 cultural innovation
00:10:18.060 is not just
00:10:19.060 tearing down culture, okay?
00:10:20.560 It's not just
00:10:21.220 putting a wrecking ball
00:10:22.000 through things.
00:10:23.300 It's new rules.
00:10:24.740 And not just rules
00:10:25.540 to make you feel good,
00:10:26.800 rules that motivate
00:10:27.660 the continuation of our species.
00:10:29.040 When progressives
00:10:30.520 create rules,
00:10:31.400 and they do create rules,
00:10:33.500 all of the rules
00:10:34.520 are structured around
00:10:35.540 feeling better.
00:10:37.040 They are all about
00:10:38.020 knocking down
00:10:38.720 the building faster.
00:10:39.880 They are about
00:10:40.520 removing things in society
00:10:42.020 that might create pain.
00:10:43.900 And I think one of the things
00:10:45.380 that I constantly see,
00:10:46.980 and this actually goes
00:10:47.640 to the video we filmed
00:10:48.400 recently around Adam and Eve
00:10:49.500 to a comment you made,
00:10:50.580 like,
00:10:51.040 did people in the past
00:10:52.040 really have it that much worse
00:10:53.340 than we have it today?
00:10:54.500 And it's like,
00:10:55.040 yeah, yeah,
00:10:56.520 like really, really,
00:10:57.600 really, really, really,
00:10:58.460 really, really did.
00:10:59.480 And they were happier.
00:11:01.400 And how were they happier?
00:11:03.280 Because they contextualize
00:11:04.460 their lives differently.
00:11:05.280 Because this way
00:11:05.980 that we live today,
00:11:07.480 where we contextualize
00:11:09.460 it as a struggle,
00:11:10.280 like, oh my God,
00:11:11.080 I can't believe
00:11:11.580 I have to go to work.
00:11:12.960 That somebody would have
00:11:13.740 this mindset
00:11:14.600 of, like,
00:11:15.720 the expectation
00:11:16.840 of privileges
00:11:18.040 that even the most
00:11:19.520 spoiled aristocrat
00:11:20.820 wouldn't have had
00:11:21.640 a hundred years ago.
00:11:22.520 shock when they learn
00:11:24.900 they actually need
00:11:25.660 to work throughout
00:11:26.300 their lives.
00:11:27.240 I think shows
00:11:28.320 the level of indolence
00:11:30.820 we have allowed to spread
00:11:32.040 was in mainstream society.
00:11:34.580 And it's something
00:11:35.260 we need to fix
00:11:35.980 and we need to fix it.
00:11:36.960 Where do you fix this?
00:11:37.740 Where does all of this fix
00:11:39.040 is at the educational level.
00:11:40.360 And we're so close
00:11:41.100 to getting our educational system done.
00:11:42.520 I'm really excited
00:11:43.140 with where I am now on this.
00:11:44.860 I've got some big challenges
00:11:45.660 on it right now,
00:11:46.160 but I'm excited to move forward.
00:11:47.220 So excited.
00:11:48.380 We're getting close.
00:11:49.240 We're getting really close.
00:11:50.700 But yeah,
00:11:51.120 the educational system
00:11:52.120 is the core of all this
00:11:52.860 because where are people
00:11:53.620 learning this culture?
00:11:54.560 Where is culture
00:11:55.080 being normalized?
00:11:55.960 Where are these
00:11:56.520 high fertility cultures
00:11:57.980 being erased right now?
00:11:59.720 It's not our schools.
00:12:03.580 That's what's happening.
00:12:04.400 So it is horrifying
00:12:07.600 that we are
00:12:09.640 seeing this happen.
00:12:10.920 But what I want to
00:12:11.560 emphasize, though,
00:12:12.460 is we're not saying
00:12:13.580 ha ha,
00:12:14.440 like everyone pointed
00:12:15.180 to Sweden
00:12:15.740 as proof that progressive
00:12:16.920 culture could be
00:12:18.240 pro-natalist
00:12:19.540 and they were wrong
00:12:21.080 and it's because
00:12:21.540 they gave women rights
00:12:22.960 and education
00:12:23.840 and jobs
00:12:24.980 because we argue
00:12:26.740 that you can have
00:12:28.720 progressive values
00:12:30.040 and a sustainable culture.
00:12:35.500 Like you don't have
00:12:36.060 to have demographic values.
00:12:36.820 I don't think you like
00:12:37.060 progressive values.
00:12:38.280 You can't have gender equality
00:12:40.040 and sustainable fertility rates,
00:12:42.420 but the gender equality
00:12:43.600 you have
00:12:44.380 doesn't look like
00:12:45.360 progressive gender equality.
00:12:46.400 Yeah, it looks like
00:12:47.460 a very different kind
00:12:48.180 of gender equality
00:12:48.880 for sure.
00:12:49.680 Yeah, progressive gender equality.
00:12:51.100 You know, we have
00:12:52.160 gender equality
00:12:53.700 in our family, basically.
00:12:54.900 You know, she's CEO
00:12:56.060 of our companies.
00:12:56.860 She co-hosts our podcast.
00:12:57.920 She co-writes our books.
00:12:59.280 But it is not
00:13:00.580 the type of gender equality
00:13:02.280 that feminists
00:13:03.540 want to structure society around,
00:13:05.400 which is a totally
00:13:06.060 atomized gender equality
00:13:07.540 where the white
00:13:08.580 works separately
00:13:09.340 from the husband
00:13:10.020 and the kids
00:13:10.840 and basically
00:13:11.920 in every moment
00:13:12.560 you do whatever
00:13:13.240 you feel like doing.
00:13:14.260 Atomization is disempowerment.
00:13:17.240 It's so sad.
00:13:17.700 Yeah, this is something
00:13:18.860 I constantly see.
00:13:20.580 You know, I was seeing
00:13:21.180 somebody talk recently
00:13:22.280 about how they have
00:13:22.960 all these young friends
00:13:23.720 and like none of the young friends
00:13:24.760 they know want to have kids
00:13:25.580 and they'll say that,
00:13:26.260 well, we can't afford kids
00:13:27.060 and they're like,
00:13:27.460 what do you mean?
00:13:28.680 Like you are a tech worker
00:13:30.040 who you have a job
00:13:31.080 at Facebook
00:13:31.540 and, you know,
00:13:33.060 and they're like,
00:13:33.360 well, I just can't afford
00:13:34.000 to raise them
00:13:34.460 within San Francisco,
00:13:35.600 blah, blah, blah.
00:13:36.220 And what's really being said
00:13:37.740 in a lot of these cases
00:13:38.760 is I cannot have kids
00:13:40.580 without incurring sacrifices
00:13:41.900 into my lifestyle.
00:13:42.660 And that is true.
00:13:46.260 And I think that
00:13:47.620 that is a good thing.
00:13:49.540 I think that we are
00:13:50.700 culling the portion
00:13:51.560 of the population
00:13:52.260 that is incapable
00:13:53.240 of sacrificing
00:13:54.820 for another person
00:13:56.060 is a good thing.
00:13:57.980 But I don't think
00:13:58.940 that we fully alert people
00:14:00.940 to the dangers
00:14:01.680 that they're walking
00:14:02.380 into around all this.
00:14:04.000 And I think that that's really
00:14:04.880 what we're trying to do.
00:14:05.880 You know, we're not out there
00:14:06.760 saying we should have
00:14:08.840 all these pressures
00:14:09.540 to have kids
00:14:10.300 in society again,
00:14:11.700 but we are saying is
00:14:13.060 if that's the only way
00:14:14.220 to motivate high fertility
00:14:15.760 or sustainable fertility,
00:14:18.380 the groups,
00:14:19.220 the mindset
00:14:20.100 around not doing that
00:14:21.700 is going to disappear
00:14:22.480 from the human race.
00:14:23.820 Yeah.
00:14:24.160 Also, this one last generation
00:14:26.580 and this one last period
00:14:27.740 of prosperity
00:14:28.280 could live like infants
00:14:29.560 sucking their thumbs
00:14:31.060 and crying all day,
00:14:32.260 which is really
00:14:32.980 what a lot of them do.
00:14:34.040 You know, it is,
00:14:35.620 it is,
00:14:36.680 it's actually interesting to me.
00:14:37.780 I now think that,
00:14:38.660 you know,
00:14:38.820 I know some parents today
00:14:39.820 where they'd see it
00:14:40.620 as a sin
00:14:41.560 against this urban monoculture
00:14:43.980 to stop your kids
00:14:45.100 from sucking their thumb
00:14:46.080 because it's what
00:14:46.860 they want to do.
00:14:47.800 How dare you stop your child
00:14:49.320 doing something
00:14:49.940 they want to do?
00:14:51.400 And you tell me.
00:14:51.820 And also like,
00:14:52.400 they're not doing it
00:14:53.560 because they're dumb
00:14:56.040 or broken in some way.
00:14:57.960 They are doing it
00:14:59.120 because they lack
00:15:00.020 sufficient responsibilities
00:15:01.380 and purpose in life
00:15:02.400 to have something bigger
00:15:03.240 to care about.
00:15:03.860 I remember being
00:15:05.600 so much more neurotic
00:15:06.980 and full of anxiety
00:15:08.760 and I can barely
00:15:09.420 leave the house, Malcolm.
00:15:10.660 And then I met you
00:15:12.420 and you and I
00:15:14.120 embarked on a life
00:15:14.860 in which both of us
00:15:15.700 had much bigger things
00:15:16.780 to care about.
00:15:17.700 And the first bigger thing
00:15:19.020 I came to care about
00:15:19.980 was you.
00:15:20.860 And it was amazing
00:15:21.640 how transformative
00:15:22.300 that alone was for me
00:15:24.360 in terms of just
00:15:25.540 giving me something else
00:15:27.820 that was a bigger deal
00:15:28.880 than my own dumb neuroses.
00:15:30.960 And when you have
00:15:32.000 nothing else in life,
00:15:33.320 when you have
00:15:33.660 no other responsibilities,
00:15:35.020 no other people
00:15:35.660 who are counting on you,
00:15:37.140 no other bigger values
00:15:38.300 you're striving to serve,
00:15:39.600 no big challenges
00:15:40.220 you've taken on,
00:15:41.100 no children to take care of.
00:15:43.760 Yeah, the only thing
00:15:44.880 that's left is your demons.
00:15:46.620 It's terrifying.
00:15:48.220 We're not trying
00:15:49.200 to delegitimize
00:15:50.580 the anxiety
00:15:51.700 and suffering
00:15:52.540 and neuroses
00:15:53.540 and infantilization
00:15:54.600 of people
00:15:55.960 who have been sucked
00:15:57.640 into mainstream society
00:15:59.840 and this atomization
00:16:00.760 and this mental health
00:16:03.280 simplification of life.
00:16:04.640 It's just a natural result.
00:16:06.720 If they could get out of it,
00:16:07.540 it would probably go away.
00:16:10.300 Well, and this thing
00:16:11.220 that you're focusing on,
00:16:12.400 this thing that you're living for,
00:16:14.040 right,
00:16:14.400 whether it's your kids
00:16:15.160 or your husband
00:16:15.680 or your neuroses,
00:16:17.000 it expands
00:16:18.120 to fill your life
00:16:19.360 and your mental landscape.
00:16:20.980 100%.
00:16:21.500 I'm sure everyone
00:16:22.120 watching this podcast
00:16:22.860 knows people who do,
00:16:24.480 like they're retired
00:16:25.320 or whatever.
00:16:27.240 Like they just have
00:16:28.140 absolutely nothing to do.
00:16:29.380 But to them,
00:16:30.180 their days are full.
00:16:31.160 Their days are full
00:16:32.060 from wake up to go to sleep
00:16:34.240 and they're stressed out about it
00:16:35.220 and they're like,
00:16:35.580 oh, I've got so much stuff
00:16:37.100 and first I make my drink
00:16:39.840 and then I have to shower
00:16:41.200 and then by then
00:16:41.940 it's like 1.30 p.m.
00:16:43.280 You know what I mean?
00:16:44.400 If you live
00:16:45.620 to suppress your demons,
00:16:48.080 your demons become
00:16:49.020 the size of your entire life.
00:16:50.720 Oh, totally.
00:16:51.460 And that is
00:16:52.240 the way the human brain works
00:16:54.360 and that is what has been
00:16:55.500 elevated by our current society
00:16:57.860 because it's told people
00:16:58.840 to live for what makes them happy.
00:17:00.340 And, you know,
00:17:00.520 we've talked about this
00:17:01.060 in other recent episodes.
00:17:02.300 But I also want to talk
00:17:03.340 about something else here
00:17:04.060 which is interesting.
00:17:05.220 So Sweden had this phenomenon
00:17:07.540 as is the Nordic countries
00:17:08.960 where they had a fertility boost
00:17:10.660 in the 2000s
00:17:11.700 and it's led to people believing
00:17:13.420 that they might have
00:17:15.600 another fertility boost,
00:17:16.720 naively,
00:17:17.340 like the demographers.
00:17:18.540 Like a new surge.
00:17:21.080 So why isn't that going to happen?
00:17:22.880 Because it's actually important
00:17:23.740 to understand
00:17:24.180 why this isn't going to happen.
00:17:25.080 So there's two types of...
00:17:25.600 Well, I like that you're coming out
00:17:26.420 and saying that
00:17:27.140 because then you can be proven wrong.
00:17:29.040 You know,
00:17:29.280 so many people never do that.
00:17:31.700 Measurement,
00:17:31.960 you can do...
00:17:32.600 There's cohort measurement
00:17:33.500 and then measurement
00:17:34.400 among any slice in time.
00:17:36.580 Usually on this channel
00:17:37.780 when we're doing fertility stuff,
00:17:39.120 we're doing it in slices of time.
00:17:40.260 Like what's the FTR
00:17:41.060 in a given year?
00:17:42.460 But when you're doing cohort,
00:17:44.060 what would happen in a cohort,
00:17:45.320 just so you sort of understand
00:17:46.320 how this works,
00:17:47.340 is women the ages of...
00:17:50.540 How do I explain this well?
00:17:52.860 Okay, so within one generation,
00:17:55.240 a bunch of women
00:17:56.580 might put off having kids
00:17:58.360 until they're a bit older
00:17:59.960 due to like economic concerns
00:18:01.900 or something like that.
00:18:03.040 So you have a temporary depression,
00:18:06.100 right?
00:18:06.480 Or a war or something like that.
00:18:08.580 And this is discussed a lot
00:18:09.600 in Latin America,
00:18:10.600 in Latin America,
00:18:11.540 for example,
00:18:12.360 like a lot of...
00:18:13.220 The most births
00:18:14.380 that are no longer happening
00:18:15.360 are unwanted teen births
00:18:18.020 to, you know,
00:18:18.560 unmarried young women.
00:18:19.340 No, this is really
00:18:19.460 what I'm talking about.
00:18:20.420 Well, no,
00:18:20.760 but what I'm saying
00:18:21.300 is they're hoping
00:18:22.000 that they're going to get a surge
00:18:23.140 just, well, similar to...
00:18:24.520 Because they're like,
00:18:25.920 oh, well, don't worry.
00:18:26.760 Those women will have children.
00:18:28.120 They're just going to do it
00:18:28.800 when they're actually ready now
00:18:30.180 because they've...
00:18:30.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:30.980 Which may happen.
00:18:32.100 I don't think it will,
00:18:32.860 but it may.
00:18:33.740 And so Latin America
00:18:34.600 still has hope.
00:18:35.880 Sweden doesn't
00:18:36.400 because you can do...
00:18:37.980 I thought you just said
00:18:38.500 they were hoping for a surge.
00:18:40.420 Well, idiots are
00:18:41.300 who don't look at the data.
00:18:42.640 Okay.
00:18:43.800 Everyone else
00:18:44.620 is giving up hope.
00:18:45.480 The 2000s
00:18:46.180 was caused by this.
00:18:47.140 It was caused by women
00:18:48.080 putting off having kids
00:18:49.060 until a later age,
00:18:50.180 but you can do cohort analysis
00:18:51.780 to see if that's happening
00:18:52.900 and it's not happening.
00:18:55.180 So we know
00:18:55.940 that each cohort,
00:18:57.100 each age cohort of women
00:18:58.480 during their reproductive lifespan
00:19:01.300 within these countries
00:19:02.980 is actually decreasing
00:19:04.360 every year,
00:19:06.420 basically,
00:19:06.940 I think,
00:19:07.140 for a very long time.
00:19:08.540 And so we're actually
00:19:09.300 not seeing that.
00:19:10.060 That is not what is causing
00:19:11.240 this particular drop
00:19:12.560 in fertility rate.
00:19:13.720 So it is not that
00:19:14.340 these women are just waiting
00:19:15.460 to have kids later.
00:19:16.900 It is that they are just
00:19:18.500 choosing not to have kids.
00:19:20.000 Although even if that were the case,
00:19:21.760 they would have fewer kids
00:19:22.760 because they're going to have
00:19:23.660 more fertility problems.
00:19:26.260 Yeah,
00:19:26.840 but there's types of waiting,
00:19:28.960 like,
00:19:29.280 okay,
00:19:29.560 for example,
00:19:30.440 during war
00:19:31.160 or something like that.
00:19:32.040 Yeah,
00:19:32.320 no,
00:19:32.580 yeah,
00:19:32.700 like waiting for a couple years
00:19:33.840 where it's not
00:19:34.380 that big a deal.
00:19:35.960 But that's not what we're seeing
00:19:37.200 in the data here.
00:19:38.120 And it's very important
00:19:39.240 to point that out
00:19:40.120 because demographers
00:19:41.540 on the left
00:19:42.300 love to lie.
00:19:43.640 Like,
00:19:43.760 they just pretend
00:19:44.540 like it's not an issue at all
00:19:45.960 or it can be solved
00:19:46.700 with immigration.
00:19:47.720 And in both cases,
00:19:48.880 that's just not true.
00:19:50.120 I was reading this piece
00:19:51.120 that really chilled me
00:19:52.980 about it was in a UK thing.
00:19:56.120 And it was like,
00:19:56.720 oh,
00:19:57.020 all these people saying,
00:19:58.800 you know,
00:19:59.080 fertility rates are a big problem
00:20:01.220 are lying to you
00:20:02.460 because the population
00:20:03.360 of the UK is growing.
00:20:04.760 And then in the same article,
00:20:06.080 it also said,
00:20:06.740 we haven't had a stable fertility rate
00:20:08.760 since the 1973,
00:20:10.640 since the 1970s.
00:20:11.860 And I was like,
00:20:12.480 what,
00:20:12.920 what,
00:20:13.280 how did,
00:20:14.080 then is that not a problem?
00:20:14.980 And they go,
00:20:15.540 well,
00:20:15.740 because all people living
00:20:17.960 in the UK
00:20:18.520 are of equal value,
00:20:20.040 it doesn't matter
00:20:20.920 that we're using immigration
00:20:22.420 to make up
00:20:23.180 for this fertility
00:20:23.980 downfall we have,
00:20:25.900 like this fertility gap
00:20:26.940 we have.
00:20:27.560 And,
00:20:28.020 you know,
00:20:28.140 this is the type
00:20:28.740 of twisted logic
00:20:29.620 that people
00:20:30.080 who have predated
00:20:30.900 on other cultures
00:20:31.680 for their own laziness
00:20:33.980 into secure
00:20:34.980 lifestyles of indolence
00:20:36.400 have always used.
00:20:37.180 Oh,
00:20:37.340 we're uplifting
00:20:37.960 the poor savages
00:20:39.360 or something like that
00:20:40.360 by bringing them over
00:20:41.660 and erasing their culture
00:20:43.000 and marching their children
00:20:44.760 through the streets.
00:20:45.660 You know,
00:20:46.260 it's,
00:20:46.660 it's in celebrations
00:20:48.280 of European cultural victory
00:20:50.020 over the cultures
00:20:50.920 that these people came from.
00:20:51.880 It is not a good thing
00:20:53.640 or something
00:20:54.100 that should be lauded
00:20:55.060 that you as a cultural group
00:20:57.940 have to import people
00:20:59.820 who have done
00:21:00.460 some form of labor
00:21:01.660 that you have chosen
00:21:02.940 not to do
00:21:03.700 to support your lifestyle.
00:21:05.420 That is not a thing
00:21:06.600 of honor or value
00:21:08.420 that is a bad thing.
00:21:09.700 Don't be proud.
00:21:10.820 Yeah,
00:21:11.200 don't be proud of that.
00:21:12.240 And,
00:21:12.420 and you'll see this constantly,
00:21:13.640 you know,
00:21:13.820 in the EU reports
00:21:14.860 and everything like that.
00:21:15.660 They constantly are trying
00:21:16.880 to hide the scope
00:21:18.580 and scale of the problem
00:21:20.060 and they do it
00:21:20.620 by saying stuff like,
00:21:21.460 well,
00:21:21.600 look at when their birth rates
00:21:22.580 went up in the past.
00:21:23.320 And I was like,
00:21:23.620 that was because
00:21:24.060 of a cohort issue.
00:21:25.120 And we know
00:21:25.800 that's not the case.
00:21:26.540 We can look at
00:21:27.220 the bigger data now.
00:21:28.280 We know that's not the case.
00:21:29.960 And then they're like,
00:21:30.800 well,
00:21:31.260 how do you know
00:21:31.760 there's not going to be
00:21:32.260 a sudden cultural change?
00:21:33.340 And it's like,
00:21:33.640 because I can ask the people
00:21:34.740 who haven't had kids yet,
00:21:35.740 do you plan to have kids?
00:21:36.780 And I can tell.
00:21:38.160 Anyone who's out there
00:21:39.460 engaging with society
00:21:40.220 can tell how big
00:21:40.860 this problem is.
00:21:42.000 And one of the biggest things
00:21:43.240 that we're trying to do
00:21:44.020 with the pro-natalist movement
00:21:45.160 and the pro-natalist foundation
00:21:46.600 is just to edify
00:21:50.060 government and policymakers
00:21:52.300 that subsidies don't work.
00:21:54.800 They do not work.
00:21:56.420 I can put a graph on the screen
00:21:57.520 that will show you
00:21:58.380 studies done on subsidies.
00:22:00.740 And you will see
00:22:01.560 a direct correlation
00:22:02.700 between the size
00:22:03.620 and the margin of error
00:22:04.360 of the study
00:22:04.880 and its probability
00:22:05.900 of saying that subsidies help.
00:22:09.100 The studies
00:22:10.000 with almost no margin of error
00:22:11.480 almost always show
00:22:12.140 that subsidies are irrelevant.
00:22:14.480 And this is very important
00:22:16.120 because every year
00:22:17.620 you waste trying to solve
00:22:18.960 this problem with subsidies
00:22:19.900 is a year you get closer
00:22:21.720 to this becoming
00:22:22.540 an impossible problem to solve.
00:22:24.460 A year you come closer
00:22:25.660 to becoming a country
00:22:26.880 like Korea now
00:22:27.600 where 60% of the population
00:22:28.800 is over the age of 40.
00:22:30.040 They cannot solve
00:22:30.960 this problem anymore.
00:22:32.100 It would be almost impossible
00:22:33.320 at this stage.
00:22:34.340 And yet they're still
00:22:34.840 having a 13%
00:22:35.880 year over year
00:22:36.860 in 2023 fertility collapse.
00:22:40.200 And what can you do
00:22:41.340 at that point?
00:22:41.860 You can't do anything
00:22:43.060 outside of like
00:22:43.860 dictatorial or fascist efforts.
00:22:46.480 Well, that's the problem.
00:22:47.320 It's like their
00:22:48.140 culture can be
00:22:51.280 a good sustainable solution
00:22:53.040 and it really is there.
00:22:55.060 And the scary thing
00:22:56.760 is that governments
00:22:57.420 are also like
00:22:58.900 apparently too dumb
00:23:00.400 to figure that out.
00:23:01.520 So the next dumb solution
00:23:03.960 after the current dumb solution
00:23:05.500 which is too much money
00:23:06.600 or more money
00:23:07.320 or whatever
00:23:07.760 is,
00:23:09.720 oh, let's start
00:23:10.420 coercing people.
00:23:11.420 Let's start taking away
00:23:12.220 their rights.
00:23:12.940 But that's what China
00:23:13.520 has gone to.
00:23:14.120 That's what Iran
00:23:14.600 has gone to.
00:23:15.320 And it just,
00:23:15.840 we know that that's
00:23:17.080 what comes next.
00:23:17.780 Not the correct solution
00:23:18.820 which is a promotion
00:23:19.680 of high fertility
00:23:20.400 cultural groups.
00:23:21.300 But you know why
00:23:22.400 they won't go to
00:23:23.500 the promotion
00:23:23.980 of high fertility
00:23:24.440 cultural group next?
00:23:26.040 There's a reason.
00:23:27.300 Because it undermines
00:23:28.460 their sovereignty.
00:23:30.920 Close.
00:23:32.120 High fertility
00:23:32.780 cultural groups
00:23:33.520 because the world today,
00:23:34.700 everywhere in the world
00:23:35.540 is dominated
00:23:36.420 by some iteration
00:23:37.620 of the urban monoculture.
00:23:39.060 Even China
00:23:40.120 to a large extent.
00:23:41.520 At least the elite
00:23:42.200 ruling class.
00:23:42.860 You know,
00:23:42.960 a lot of them
00:23:43.240 were educated
00:23:43.660 in the U.S.
00:23:44.280 and stuff like that.
00:23:45.040 So they have these
00:23:45.740 urban monocultural
00:23:47.660 value sets.
00:23:48.900 Well,
00:23:49.580 that's the lowest
00:23:50.420 fertility rate culture
00:23:51.200 in the world.
00:23:51.900 And so
00:23:52.480 it is definitionally,
00:23:55.080 the interests
00:23:55.640 of the elites
00:23:56.280 are definitionally
00:23:57.360 opposed
00:23:58.000 to the groups
00:23:59.120 that they would
00:23:59.820 need to elevate
00:24:00.580 and the groups
00:24:01.960 they would need
00:24:02.460 to protect
00:24:03.180 if they're going
00:24:04.300 to fight
00:24:05.060 their fertility rate.
00:24:06.340 If you say
00:24:06.780 you need to protect
00:24:07.780 the high fertility groups
00:24:08.900 and they say,
00:24:09.440 okay,
00:24:09.880 show me these groups.
00:24:11.000 And I go,
00:24:11.440 well,
00:24:11.520 they exist really
00:24:12.200 in two categories.
00:24:13.040 One is conservative
00:24:14.420 religious groups.
00:24:15.800 So you're conservative
00:24:16.460 Jews,
00:24:17.260 you're conservative
00:24:17.800 Muslims,
00:24:18.540 you're conservative
00:24:19.000 Christians.
00:24:19.440 And they go,
00:24:19.800 oh,
00:24:19.940 well,
00:24:20.060 we don't like them.
00:24:21.300 They're backwards.
00:24:21.980 They do all the naughty things.
00:24:23.360 They follow all these old rules
00:24:24.780 that don't really matter
00:24:26.040 in our society anymore.
00:24:27.180 And it's like,
00:24:27.560 well,
00:24:27.740 apparently they matter
00:24:28.540 for something.
00:24:29.580 But even those groups
00:24:30.540 are crashing infertility,
00:24:31.800 right?
00:24:32.060 As we talk about
00:24:32.820 in an upcoming article
00:24:33.780 that we're going to do
00:24:34.560 in Aporia.
00:24:35.640 But there's another group
00:24:37.000 and they go,
00:24:37.260 oh,
00:24:37.480 okay,
00:24:37.680 okay,
00:24:37.900 there's another group.
00:24:38.880 And I'm like,
00:24:39.120 this group actually
00:24:39.700 largely aligns
00:24:40.560 with your value sets.
00:24:41.480 And they go,
00:24:41.800 oh,
00:24:41.960 okay,
00:24:42.220 okay,
00:24:42.440 this is actually
00:24:43.080 really good.
00:24:44.240 And they're like,
00:24:44.600 what do they look like?
00:24:45.580 And I go,
00:24:45.960 well,
00:24:46.520 they look like families
00:24:47.400 like ours,
00:24:47.920 families like Elon's family.
00:24:49.580 Families,
00:24:50.320 they're these high tech,
00:24:51.860 weird dissident groups
00:24:53.680 that are trying
00:24:54.480 to recreate
00:24:55.600 new cultural structures.
00:24:57.480 And they go,
00:24:57.880 oh,
00:24:58.040 well,
00:24:58.160 we especially hate them.
00:24:59.920 Did you not know?
00:25:01.700 And we're like,
00:25:02.220 what are you talking about?
00:25:03.460 Like,
00:25:03.640 he's trying to fix
00:25:04.500 like global warming
00:25:05.540 and stuff like that.
00:25:06.480 Maybe,
00:25:07.060 you know,
00:25:07.460 not in the best possible way,
00:25:08.360 but he's trying to.
00:25:09.720 But they're like,
00:25:10.160 yeah,
00:25:10.400 but did you know
00:25:11.180 that he,
00:25:12.240 and you as well,
00:25:13.400 I've heard you do this.
00:25:14.600 He promotes freedom of speech.
00:25:16.640 I've heard that naughty people
00:25:18.780 speak at your pronatalist events.
00:25:20.460 You just let anyone
00:25:21.620 speak at these events?
00:25:23.280 Anyone?
00:25:23.660 Yes,
00:25:23.940 we just let anyone
00:25:24.680 because we believe
00:25:25.440 that bad ideas will fail
00:25:26.800 and good ideas will succeed.
00:25:28.920 And,
00:25:29.440 and,
00:25:29.620 and I'm sorry
00:25:30.320 that that is so threatening to you,
00:25:32.460 but I understand
00:25:33.380 why it's threatening to you
00:25:34.300 because you have a chokehold
00:25:35.600 on the media.
00:25:36.340 You have a chokehold
00:25:37.160 in the education system.
00:25:38.320 As soon as one cultural group
00:25:40.360 has achieved a chokehold
00:25:41.380 on all of these places
00:25:42.980 where information
00:25:43.820 is distributed in society,
00:25:45.720 nothing becomes more
00:25:47.300 threatening to that group
00:25:48.980 than a free informational marketplace.
00:25:51.200 You allow naughty ideas
00:25:52.480 to be said yes
00:25:53.200 because if those ideas are bad,
00:25:54.960 they will fail.
00:25:55.560 But if those ideas
00:25:56.180 are only bad
00:25:56.840 insofar as they threaten you,
00:25:58.700 i.e.
00:25:59.480 falling fertility rates
00:26:00.420 are actually a problem
00:26:01.260 and people should be worried.
00:26:02.640 I had a professor at Harvard
00:26:03.840 tell me that if it was known
00:26:05.360 that if she cared about this,
00:26:06.580 she could be fired,
00:26:07.440 even from a tenured position.
00:26:09.080 That is how severely
00:26:10.660 people are trying
00:26:11.280 to suppress these ideas.
00:26:12.260 And I think that people
00:26:12.940 don't understand
00:26:14.020 how negatively
00:26:15.060 this idea of falling
00:26:16.320 fertility rates is.
00:26:18.160 And it's terrifying,
00:26:19.660 but it's the world
00:26:20.300 we live in today.
00:26:22.240 Yikes.
00:26:23.400 Well, I mean,
00:26:23.840 what are your...
00:26:24.360 I guess my parting thoughts are
00:26:27.020 this is culture.
00:26:29.200 Culture, culture.
00:26:30.100 Culture, culture.
00:26:31.020 We told you.
00:26:32.160 Culture.
00:26:33.300 Please pay attention.
00:26:34.540 It's culture.
00:26:35.940 And the only way
00:26:36.380 culture is so inexpensive.
00:26:37.660 It's so affordable.
00:26:39.180 Like, come on.
00:26:41.140 What's so affordable?
00:26:42.320 Culture.
00:26:43.000 Like, cultural interventions
00:26:44.000 from a policy standpoint.
00:26:45.420 Vis-a-vis.
00:26:46.000 Oh, yeah.
00:26:46.020 Make kids watch
00:26:46.840 those old coronet films
00:26:48.180 about how Jimmy
00:26:48.860 needs to get married
00:26:49.880 and the importance
00:26:52.100 of having kids.
00:26:53.660 Yeah, and how to date.
00:26:54.760 Make walls.
00:26:55.600 Disney, what I love.
00:26:57.460 Disney can't have
00:26:58.380 a protagonist
00:26:59.280 who has less than five kids.
00:27:01.760 Watch culture.
00:27:02.200 That's the way people
00:27:03.020 are like,
00:27:03.400 what?
00:27:03.620 That's an insane number
00:27:04.400 of kids.
00:27:04.820 Home alone.
00:27:05.880 All of the families
00:27:06.580 had five kids.
00:27:07.540 Like, this used to be normal
00:27:09.400 in the movies
00:27:10.100 that defined our culture.
00:27:11.620 Oh, it's insane.
00:27:12.940 And now it is unheard of.
00:27:14.860 I cannot think of
00:27:15.980 a recent Disney protagonist
00:27:17.360 that had more than two kids
00:27:20.440 in a family.
00:27:22.220 Well, there's Encanto.
00:27:24.240 Oh, yes, Encanto.
00:27:25.800 That's a good point.
00:27:26.480 Oh, no, sorry.
00:27:26.980 Wait, hold on.
00:27:27.520 No, no, no.
00:27:27.940 They're cousins.
00:27:29.420 Oh, yeah.
00:27:29.780 They're cousins.
00:27:30.520 So it's three kids
00:27:31.620 to the previous generation
00:27:32.860 and then max two kids
00:27:35.060 per our generation.
00:27:36.420 We didn't have four kids.
00:27:37.940 We didn't talk about Bruno,
00:27:38.880 though, do we?
00:27:39.680 Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about it.
00:27:40.640 But that's just,
00:27:41.340 yeah, we don't talk about Bruno.
00:27:43.840 But so the four kids,
00:27:45.140 the grandmother had four kids,
00:27:46.160 but each of those kids
00:27:47.120 only had max two kids each.
00:27:49.020 So even within our generation,
00:27:50.460 in this large,
00:27:51.960 stereotyped Latin American family,
00:27:54.620 they still within our generation
00:27:55.940 didn't have more
00:27:56.420 than two kids per family.
00:27:57.420 Well, and fertility rates
00:27:58.900 are crashing in Latin America.
00:28:00.380 This is just inaccurate.
00:28:01.260 They're trying to be
00:28:01.920 representative Malcolm.
00:28:02.860 Give them a break.
00:28:04.280 Okay.
00:28:04.920 They're trying.
00:28:06.220 By the way,
00:28:07.120 Encanto, a great movie.
00:28:08.480 I did a week crash
00:28:09.540 on some Disney movies.
00:28:10.900 Great movie.
00:28:11.580 Oh, and I was so disappointed
00:28:12.500 we didn't talk about
00:28:13.420 the new Wish movie
00:28:14.220 because we haven't seen it
00:28:15.020 in the episode on self-control.
00:28:16.580 Should we watch it?
00:28:17.580 Is it going to be really bad, though?
00:28:18.960 I really don't want to watch it,
00:28:20.580 but I've heard
00:28:21.280 that essentially
00:28:22.640 the only bad thing
00:28:23.800 that the bad guy does
00:28:24.840 is demand...
00:28:26.020 So everyone gives him their Wish.
00:28:27.860 This is what I've heard.
00:28:28.540 I haven't seen it yet.
00:28:29.160 And he has this
00:28:30.700 because he doesn't think
00:28:31.420 that all wishes can come true.
00:28:32.880 Like, if you just granted
00:28:33.820 every wish willy-nilly,
00:28:34.880 it would cause problems in society
00:28:35.940 and hurt other people eventually.
00:28:37.320 Oh, yeah.
00:28:37.820 How many people
00:28:38.480 wish people were dead?
00:28:39.320 And so he reviews people's wishes
00:28:40.820 to see if they are beneficial
00:28:42.600 to society,
00:28:43.480 and he grants the wishes
00:28:44.960 that are beneficial to society,
00:28:46.120 and he doesn't grant the wishes
00:28:47.120 that he doesn't judge.
00:28:48.520 He's not, like,
00:28:49.220 judging on his own...
00:28:49.820 He's a bad guy?
00:28:50.280 Well, yeah, no,
00:28:51.580 he ends up apparently
00:28:52.780 locked in a mirror forever.
00:28:54.440 That's how evil
00:28:55.140 this is being.
00:28:56.600 That everybody can't have
00:28:58.280 whatever they want
00:28:59.080 whenever they want it.
00:29:00.020 The ultimate sin in society.
00:29:02.980 That is amazing.
00:29:04.940 That's so amazing.
00:29:06.500 That, like, wow.
00:29:07.300 Okay, well,
00:29:08.260 then we should probably watch it.
00:29:10.540 Although, you know what?
00:29:11.000 I've just been re-watching
00:29:12.000 right before going to bed
00:29:12.880 and then going to bed too late.
00:29:14.580 Clueless.
00:29:15.240 So good.
00:29:16.520 And you know what blew my mind
00:29:17.420 when I watched it
00:29:18.220 the most recent time
00:29:19.040 is that, like,
00:29:20.760 one high school teacher
00:29:21.640 just consistently
00:29:23.240 to almost all students
00:29:24.340 doles out C's,
00:29:26.380 which bring down
00:29:26.920 everyone's grade point average.
00:29:28.320 And, like, to me,
00:29:29.180 imagining, like,
00:29:29.960 a school teacher
00:29:30.660 giving, like,
00:29:32.580 a mean grade to students
00:29:34.180 is so weird.
00:29:36.400 Like, actually grading them fairly.
00:29:38.500 But I also really love
00:29:39.620 how based the movie is
00:29:41.160 because the father
00:29:42.820 in the movie
00:29:43.640 praises his daughter
00:29:45.340 for negotiating
00:29:47.600 a better grade.
00:29:49.100 And we'd be so proud
00:29:51.700 because, like,
00:29:52.240 you're not really learning
00:29:53.060 anything that useful in school.
00:29:54.400 But, like,
00:29:54.940 if you have the hustle
00:29:55.840 to change your grade,
00:29:57.020 like, all right.
00:29:58.080 You say that,
00:29:58.620 but that was the culture
00:29:59.400 I was raised in.
00:30:00.620 So my mom actually
00:30:01.440 used that movie
00:30:02.240 as a teaching thing for me.
00:30:03.420 She goes,
00:30:04.180 the line there is
00:30:05.340 a grade is just
00:30:07.980 a jumping off point
00:30:08.880 for negotiation.
00:30:09.960 Yes.
00:30:10.440 She said,
00:30:10.820 I should always remember that
00:30:12.200 and that if I got a grade
00:30:13.520 that I wasn't willing
00:30:15.460 to accept in my record
00:30:16.840 that I should just treat it
00:30:18.360 as a jumping off point
00:30:19.120 for negotiation.
00:30:19.760 How great was your mom
00:30:20.960 that she used Clueless
00:30:22.400 as the canon
00:30:23.960 for your life lessons?
00:30:25.340 And we plan to do the same.
00:30:26.580 It's in our family canon.
00:30:27.980 It's official,
00:30:29.100 along with, you know,
00:30:30.000 Starship Troopers,
00:30:31.120 Indiana Jones movies.
00:30:32.840 The importance.
00:30:34.080 Well, I mean,
00:30:34.780 and teachers actually
00:30:35.760 are generally more okay
00:30:37.020 with that than you would think.
00:30:38.260 You know,
00:30:38.580 you're like,
00:30:39.100 look,
00:30:39.540 I can't expect this way.
00:30:40.020 Not when it's, like,
00:30:41.040 victim-based.
00:30:42.440 No, no, no.
00:30:43.100 Not when it's victim-based.
00:30:44.080 I say,
00:30:44.440 what do I need to do
00:30:45.480 to get you to make
00:30:46.840 this grade higher?
00:30:48.020 I am willing to stay
00:30:49.180 after school every day.
00:30:50.560 I am willing to do
00:30:51.280 whatever is necessary.
00:30:52.300 You tell me what I need to do.
00:30:53.600 I'm willing to do
00:30:54.140 any extra work assignments.
00:30:56.340 And most teachers,
00:30:57.380 if you're putting in
00:30:58.060 extra work and stuff like that
00:30:59.500 and it's, like,
00:31:00.040 substantive,
00:31:00.960 high-quality work,
00:31:02.340 they're like,
00:31:02.880 yeah, sure, whatever.
00:31:04.020 Not mine.
00:31:04.660 I had one A- in college.
00:31:07.920 Brought down my entire GPA.
00:31:09.720 Well, because you never
00:31:10.520 got a grade
00:31:11.340 less than an A in college.
00:31:12.700 I should point this out.
00:31:13.380 It was an A-.
00:31:14.640 And I was the only person,
00:31:18.320 the only student
00:31:19.600 who went to his class
00:31:20.860 right before Thanksgiving.
00:31:22.340 Nothing.
00:31:23.200 Nothing.
00:31:23.660 No.
00:31:24.020 Like,
00:31:24.700 can I do extra?
00:31:25.940 No.
00:31:27.100 I mean, okay,
00:31:27.820 I get it.
00:31:28.640 I suck at accounting.
00:31:29.740 But, like,
00:31:30.700 it doesn't always work
00:31:31.740 is all I'm saying.
00:31:33.200 And then, like,
00:31:33.560 later when I-
00:31:34.280 Did you get any A's
00:31:35.160 other than that
00:31:35.680 or with an only A-pluses?
00:31:37.840 I think I got
00:31:38.780 mostly solid A's.
00:31:40.360 Yeah.
00:31:42.620 Well, I love that
00:31:43.240 her trauma is an A-minus.
00:31:45.260 But it should make sense
00:31:45.980 to people who know her.
00:31:46.620 Anyway, I love you, Simone.
00:31:47.800 You are a great wife.
00:31:49.420 And I am so happy
00:31:51.460 to have you
00:31:52.320 as my partner
00:31:53.480 in this
00:31:54.820 civilizational battle
00:31:56.180 for the
00:31:56.820 soul of society.
00:31:58.660 And I hope that this
00:32:00.340 podcast
00:32:01.740 might inspire
00:32:02.760 some people
00:32:03.680 with progressive values
00:32:04.880 to think a little bit
00:32:05.780 more creatively
00:32:06.500 about how they might
00:32:07.900 motivate higher fertility rates.
00:32:09.380 So, high five.
00:32:10.860 And I adore you.
00:32:11.500 Thank you.