Based Camp - TERFS： Somehow More Toxic Than the Trans Movement

00:00:00.000 We'll just say curmudgeonly resistance to change.

00:00:02.420 Exactly.

00:00:02.960 And who would be more curmudgeonly and resistant to change

00:00:07.020 than 1970s feminists?

00:00:10.120 These women were not known for their logic.

00:00:12.780 Everybody always knew that this early iteration

00:00:15.020 of the feminist movement was like fucking bonkers

00:00:17.760 and completely dislocated from reality.

00:00:20.620 You went out with a white male?

00:00:22.740 I was a freshman.

00:00:23.760 Fresh person, please.

00:00:25.460 Please.

00:00:26.380 He's coming over here.

00:00:27.280 Sister, form the wall!

00:00:30.600 Their entire ideology to begin with was stupid and reactionary.

00:00:35.000 And honestly, I think to a large extent,

00:00:37.060 used for them to gain access to sexual partners.

00:00:39.500 You know, they used to do this political lesbian thing

00:00:41.620 to pressure straight women to sleep with them,

00:00:43.480 and now they're getting the,

00:00:44.800 well, not liking girl dick makes you a bigot.

00:00:47.720 So let's talk about what political lesbianism is.

00:00:49.860 If you don't believe gender is a thing,

00:00:51.980 then sexual orientation isn't a thing either.

00:00:55.320 And so if men are the problem in society,

00:00:57.500 then you can just choose to be gay.

00:00:59.220 And this is a very convenient ideology for a lot of women

00:01:03.900 who want to believe any woman they have a crush on

00:01:05.560 is a valid target for them to try as hard as they want on.

00:01:08.760 Would you like to know more?

00:01:10.040 All right.

00:01:10.380 So we were in the UK recently,

00:01:11.840 and we were reminded while being there

00:01:14.540 and talking with people about various political movements

00:01:16.780 and conservative movements there,

00:01:18.760 just how big, like, the TERF movement in general is there.

00:01:22.620 Which, we're not saying it's big, but it is influential.

00:01:25.440 Like, a very small number of women who identify as TERFs

00:01:29.340 have had an outsized level of influence, one could argue.

00:01:32.900 I'd go further than that.

00:01:34.060 I'd say if you talk among conservative circles in the UK,

00:01:37.360 there is a general belief among the political class

00:01:40.140 that the aspect of the conservative movement

00:01:42.220 that is having the most cultural victory,

00:01:44.820 you know, moving the Overton window the most,

00:01:46.620 is the TERF portion of the movement.

00:01:48.040 In the US, I think we think of TERFs

00:01:50.740 as being this rare, small group

00:01:53.820 that is just, like, weirdo extremists.

00:01:56.460 In the UK, they are a core aspect,

00:01:59.820 if not the current most successful aspect,

00:02:02.740 of the conservative political ideology of the country.

00:02:06.560 So, this brings us to a question.

00:02:09.540 Who are TERFs?

00:02:10.660 What do we think of TERFs?

00:02:12.780 And, yeah, we'll just go into it,

00:02:14.880 because it's something I spend a lot of time on.

00:02:16.780 So, people might know this.

00:02:17.640 We have a holiday called Lemon Day in our family,

00:02:19.780 where we have to engage with an ideology that offends us.

00:02:22.720 And I spend a lot of time,

00:02:24.000 because I've always found TERFism to be fairly offensive,

00:02:26.500 and that might surprise people,

00:02:27.740 so I'll explain why,

00:02:29.080 really deeply in their communities,

00:02:30.960 which are called gender-critical communities

00:02:32.680 from their perspective.

00:02:33.880 One of the core mistakes people make

00:02:36.060 when they think about who the TERFs are,

00:02:37.880 what they are, what they want,

00:02:39.860 is they think that this is predominantly,

00:02:41.720 and I even noticed this within the UK to an extent,

00:02:43.760 is they didn't seem to understand,

00:02:45.120 when they were talking about TERFs,

00:02:46.240 the full ideology,

00:02:47.780 that this was just an anti-trans movement.

00:02:52.040 And it is not.

00:02:53.900 It's not a trans-skeptical movement.

00:02:55.900 It's not an anti-trans movement.

00:02:57.460 It is so much more than that.

00:02:59.620 It is a complete world perspective

00:03:02.180 on what it is to be human,

00:03:04.520 what humans are,

00:03:06.200 why humans are that way.

00:03:07.560 It is a logically, internally consistent perspective,

00:03:11.340 but it is a perspective that

00:03:13.120 is incongruent with measurable evidence,

00:03:18.700 is the way I would put it,

00:03:20.600 which to me is interesting,

00:03:22.040 because it is such a logically,

00:03:23.820 internally consistent perspective

00:03:24.900 that is also so insane.

00:03:28.240 So let's talk about it,

00:03:29.700 and why people ended up holding it,

00:03:31.780 because I think this is very interesting as well.

00:03:33.360 First, I'll quickly describe

00:03:37.620 what TERFs and the gender-critical movement

00:03:39.440 actually believe.

00:03:40.400 So they believe that there is no difference

00:03:42.280 between men and women.

00:03:43.400 That's what they mean when they say gender-critical.

00:03:45.140 They are critical of the very concept of gender.

00:03:48.260 They think that men and women are different

00:03:50.900 because we have been socialized differently.

00:03:54.280 That is the core cause

00:03:57.580 of male and female differences in the world.

00:04:00.240 And this is why they're so antagonistic

00:04:03.480 to trans individuals,

00:04:04.260 because they see their goal, right,

00:04:06.700 is to get society to accept

00:04:09.280 that all of the differences between men and women

00:04:12.040 are actually created by society itself.

00:04:17.280 And that if we could just accept

00:04:19.400 that gender is completely irrelevant

00:04:21.380 and nothing is gender,

00:04:22.760 no traits are gendered,

00:04:24.860 no female strength isn't gendered,

00:04:27.280 nothing is gendered.

00:04:28.940 Some will accept that females

00:04:30.280 have smaller bodies on average,

00:04:31.580 but not all of them do.

00:04:32.580 It's actually pretty interesting

00:04:33.640 how like delulu this movement is.

00:04:35.720 Wow.

00:04:36.280 But mostly the mainstream position of the movement

00:04:39.540 is just psychologically,

00:04:40.720 there is absolutely no difference

00:04:42.500 between males and females.

00:04:44.340 If we can break society's gender concepts,

00:04:48.800 then we can enter a world

00:04:50.240 in which there is genuine equality

00:04:52.800 between what we now call genders.

00:04:55.240 So from their perspective,

00:04:56.940 if they're taking this view,

00:04:57.900 there are two reasons they have,

00:04:59.600 like the trans community

00:05:00.760 as their mortal enemies.

00:05:03.360 Problem number one

00:05:04.640 is trans community is coming in

00:05:06.580 and saying,

00:05:07.260 actually,

00:05:08.420 men and women definitely

00:05:09.560 are two different things.

00:05:11.320 Right.

00:05:11.640 So much so that you can be born

00:05:13.300 the wrong one.

00:05:14.280 Like you couldn't be born

00:05:15.160 the wrong one

00:05:15.940 if they weren't different things.

00:05:17.340 Right.

00:05:18.800 So they are.

00:05:19.820 And then on top of that,

00:05:21.440 when the trans community

00:05:22.400 from the perspective

00:05:23.260 of the gender critical movement

00:05:24.340 defines what men and women are

00:05:26.720 in their mind,

00:05:27.480 and you can see this

00:05:28.120 in like Dylan Milvaney's

00:05:29.840 like 100 Days of the Woman

00:05:31.440 or something,

00:05:32.040 you like watch the early ones

00:05:33.560 and they're very much like,

00:05:34.640 I've just been crying all day.

00:05:36.420 And like they are very much

00:05:38.200 actually negative stereotypes

00:05:39.800 or what the gender critical movement

00:05:40.960 would consider negative stereotypes

00:05:43.200 about women.

00:05:44.120 Right.

00:05:45.400 Right?

00:05:46.080 You know,

00:05:46.440 like emotional instability

00:05:47.540 and stuff like that.

00:05:48.920 Day one of being a girl

00:05:50.200 and I have already cried three times.

00:05:52.520 I wrote a scathing email

00:05:53.580 that I did not send.

00:05:55.420 I ordered dresses online

00:05:56.540 that I couldn't afford.

00:05:57.800 And then when someone asked me

00:05:59.340 how I was,

00:06:00.120 I said,

00:06:00.700 I'm fine.

00:06:01.780 When I wasn't fine.

00:06:03.380 Day three of being a girl

00:06:04.720 and I've already become a bimbo

00:06:06.300 with the queen herself.

00:06:08.060 We are drinking martinis

00:06:09.460 at 255 on a Monday

00:06:11.300 on Sunset Boulevard.

00:06:12.980 And then we're going makeup shopping.

00:06:14.700 We love it.

00:06:15.600 Cheers.

00:06:16.340 Chrissy?

00:06:19.720 Yeah.

00:06:21.620 The bimbos are bimboing.

00:06:23.680 It's a hundred percent.

00:06:25.280 We need it.

00:06:26.320 We shopped.

00:06:26.900 It's been an amazing day as a bimbo.

00:06:28.660 I think it's a good fit for me.

00:06:29.920 What do you think, ladies?

00:06:32.020 Love ya.

00:06:32.720 Day four of being a girl

00:06:34.220 and I am exhausted.

00:06:36.500 The hair,

00:06:37.220 the makeup,

00:06:38.520 the clothes,

00:06:39.580 the high heels.

00:06:40.520 It's a lot to keep up with.

00:06:42.740 If you have trouble understanding

00:06:44.660 why this would be so offensive

00:06:46.200 to somebody who didn't believe

00:06:48.340 that there were any actual differences

00:06:50.520 at all between genders

00:06:51.860 and all differences

00:06:52.840 were the result of stereotypes,

00:06:55.180 this would be like

00:06:56.240 if a person decided

00:06:58.020 they were transracial,

00:07:00.140 but then on top of that,

00:07:02.220 they just went around

00:07:03.180 acting out black stereotypes,

00:07:05.040 like speaking in broken English

00:07:07.220 and was like a watermelon in one hand

00:07:09.600 and fried chicken in the other hand.

00:07:11.280 I want to thank you

00:07:12.180 for teaching me about my roots.

00:07:14.700 Before I came here,

00:07:15.700 I thought Indian culture

00:07:16.700 had to do with ethnic pride,

00:07:18.320 respect for nature,

00:07:19.440 and fighting for the return

00:07:20.520 of rightful lands.

00:07:21.820 But I now know

00:07:22.640 that being an Indian

00:07:23.440 is about scalping,

00:07:24.860 drinking,

00:07:25.440 and gambling.

00:07:26.280 And that is fascinating.

00:07:27.500 That is fascinating.

00:07:28.600 So,

00:07:29.620 obviously,

00:07:30.320 they're angry there.

00:07:31.060 The second reason they're angry

00:07:32.020 is if there really aren't

00:07:34.000 differences between men and women

00:07:35.320 in any way

00:07:36.240 at a psychological level,

00:07:37.900 then the core difference

00:07:39.380 in women

00:07:39.860 as like an oppressed class

00:07:40.960 in our society

00:07:41.900 is that they grew up

00:07:44.120 feeling that oppression

00:07:45.360 and exclusion.

00:07:47.140 And through that,

00:07:48.200 and TERFs mostly care about

00:07:49.480 trans people,

00:07:50.600 trans women.

00:07:51.800 They mostly care about trans women.

00:07:53.200 So,

00:07:53.660 we'll get into this in a second.

00:07:54.760 Like why.

00:07:55.240 They mostly feel like,

00:07:56.720 well,

00:07:57.840 then you are just identifying

00:07:59.900 as a minority community,

00:08:02.840 basically.

00:08:03.620 From their perspective,

00:08:04.720 because they have a view

00:08:05.980 that is actually very common

00:08:07.040 among progressive groups,

00:08:07.900 if there actually is

00:08:09.320 no difference

00:08:10.040 between any ethnic group,

00:08:11.740 if there actually is

00:08:12.560 no difference

00:08:13.020 between males and females,

00:08:14.600 well,

00:08:14.740 then for the same reason

00:08:15.920 it is twisted

00:08:16.920 to pretend you are

00:08:18.000 a different ethnicity

00:08:18.820 than you were born,

00:08:20.040 it would be twisted

00:08:20.900 to pretend you are

00:08:21.900 a different gender

00:08:22.580 than you were born.

00:08:23.620 Yeah,

00:08:23.860 that makes sense.

00:08:24.720 So,

00:08:24.920 they see it as

00:08:25.580 equally offensive to that.

00:08:27.860 Now,

00:08:28.320 they're the final thing

00:08:29.280 that really motivates

00:08:30.180 a lot of TERFs.

00:08:32.040 And the final thing is,

00:08:33.380 and imagine

00:08:34.280 you have this perspective

00:08:35.400 and then something like,

00:08:36.780 something who you see

00:08:37.920 as a man

00:08:38.580 is women winning

00:08:39.600 like woman of the year.

00:08:41.160 Right?

00:08:41.500 You'd be like,

00:08:42.040 wow,

00:08:42.260 they have taken

00:08:42.720 everything from us.

00:08:44.080 Yeah.

00:08:44.600 You know,

00:08:45.420 because they don't believe

00:08:46.480 that trans individuals

00:08:47.240 are really the gender

00:08:47.960 that they claim to be.

00:08:48.960 And then the,

00:08:49.560 the final thing

00:08:51.700 that really motivates

00:08:52.560 a lot of TERFs

00:08:53.120 is the TERF lesbian movement.

00:08:55.080 There's a lot of lesbian TERFs.

00:08:56.600 So,

00:08:57.120 a lot of TERFs

00:08:57.680 were political lesbians

00:08:58.720 to begin with,

00:08:59.740 or I think some of them

00:09:00.840 used political lesbianism

00:09:02.100 to pressure straight women

00:09:03.120 into sleeping with them,

00:09:04.280 you could actually say.

00:09:05.180 So,

00:09:05.500 let's talk about

00:09:05.820 what political lesbianism is.

00:09:07.300 If you don't believe

00:09:08.300 gender is a thing,

00:09:09.720 then sexual orientation

00:09:10.900 isn't a thing either.

00:09:12.720 And so,

00:09:13.300 if men are the problem

00:09:14.460 in society,

00:09:15.060 then you can just

00:09:15.680 choose to be gay.

00:09:17.060 And this is a very

00:09:18.700 convenient ideology

00:09:20.360 for a lot of people

00:09:21.620 who want to believe

00:09:23.040 that any,

00:09:23.640 a lot of women

00:09:24.240 who want to believe

00:09:24.860 any woman they have

00:09:25.420 a crush on

00:09:25.900 is a valid target

00:09:26.720 for them

00:09:27.180 to try as hard

00:09:28.240 as they want on.

00:09:29.140 But,

00:09:29.700 I think that a lot

00:09:30.400 of these people

00:09:30.760 are actually like

00:09:31.620 genuinely just lesbians.

00:09:33.520 And when people

00:09:34.940 began to enter

00:09:35.780 their communities

00:09:36.520 that were causing

00:09:37.220 these disgust reactions,

00:09:38.200 that's what we've

00:09:38.840 just caused

00:09:39.900 in our stuff

00:09:41.640 on sexuality,

00:09:42.540 our perception

00:09:43.120 of sexuality,

00:09:43.740 and I believe

00:09:44.020 this very strongly,

00:09:45.120 is that sexuality

00:09:45.940 exists on a spectrum

00:09:47.180 from arousal to disgust.

00:09:48.680 It does not stop at zero.

00:09:50.080 It's not zero arousal

00:09:51.660 to a hundred arousal.

00:09:52.880 It's a hundred arousal

00:09:53.640 to negative a hundred arousal.

00:09:54.740 And as we point out,

00:09:55.880 what happens

00:09:56.900 when you're aroused?

00:09:57.480 Your eyes dilate.

00:09:59.160 You look at somebody more.

00:10:00.780 You breathe in more.

00:10:02.200 You want to be

00:10:02.760 in the same room

00:10:03.260 as them.

00:10:03.720 Disgust.

00:10:04.220 Eyes contract.

00:10:05.160 You look away.

00:10:05.960 You hold your nose.

00:10:06.920 You want to get away

00:10:07.560 from the person.

00:10:08.560 They appear to be

00:10:09.420 exactly the same system.

00:10:11.280 Yeah.

00:10:11.660 So,

00:10:12.260 I expect that these

00:10:13.160 are women who are having,

00:10:13.960 and a lot of men

00:10:14.400 feel this way,

00:10:15.300 where more men

00:10:16.360 than women,

00:10:17.100 where they will feel

00:10:17.640 an active disgust reaction

00:10:18.800 to either males

00:10:20.780 or females,

00:10:21.380 depending on their gender

00:10:22.160 of predominant attraction,

00:10:23.040 which isn't seen

00:10:24.120 as much in women,

00:10:24.620 but it is seen

00:10:25.000 partially in women.

00:10:25.560 So these women

00:10:25.960 are having this

00:10:26.500 disgust reaction

00:10:27.320 to individuals

00:10:28.460 because they're not,

00:10:30.020 they, one,

00:10:30.640 don't conceptualize

00:10:31.500 those individuals

00:10:32.040 as the gender

00:10:32.480 they're claiming to be.

00:10:33.320 And maybe at, like,

00:10:34.500 a biological level,

00:10:35.400 they're not recognizing

00:10:36.280 them at the gender

00:10:37.000 that they're claiming to be.

00:10:37.780 So these are the various

00:10:39.940 beefs that the

00:10:41.620 TERF community has

00:10:42.860 with the trans community.

00:10:44.220 Hmm.

00:10:45.280 I get it

00:10:46.120 if you have their perspective.

00:10:47.140 So let's talk about

00:10:47.880 why their perspective

00:10:49.080 can feel reasonable

00:10:50.300 from a second.

00:10:51.140 Like, like,

00:10:51.560 how they actually got

00:10:52.460 these insane ideas.

00:10:54.060 Yeah.

00:10:54.280 So this actually comes

00:10:55.300 from mainstream

00:10:56.000 progressive ideology.

00:10:57.100 One of the things

00:10:57.620 about progressive ideology

00:10:58.460 that changes very frequently,

00:10:59.900 if you are out there

00:11:01.380 campaigning for

00:11:02.400 whatever you think

00:11:03.820 is progressive ideology

00:11:04.840 today,

00:11:05.480 in the future,

00:11:06.300 people will say

00:11:06.800 you are a horrible bigot.

00:11:08.020 They will throw you

00:11:08.540 under the bus

00:11:09.080 and they will beat you

00:11:09.900 at protests

00:11:10.480 if you hold these ideas.

00:11:12.340 Now, of course,

00:11:12.760 you're supposed to update

00:11:13.500 your ideas

00:11:14.040 if they update their ideas.

00:11:15.740 You know, as we point out,

00:11:16.360 even if we're just talking

00:11:16.980 about trans,

00:11:17.360 it's like transmedicalists

00:11:18.300 used to be, like,

00:11:18.800 the main kind of trans.

00:11:19.780 That was the official trans.

00:11:21.180 But before that,

00:11:22.440 it was TERFs.

00:11:23.220 And transmedicalists,

00:11:24.060 by the way,

00:11:24.360 are the ones who believe

00:11:25.040 that you need gender dysphoria

00:11:25.920 to be trans

00:11:26.700 instead of just saying

00:11:27.880 that you're trans

00:11:28.540 to be trans

00:11:29.160 or feeling

00:11:29.640 without gender dysphoria

00:11:30.820 being trans.

00:11:32.160 Anyway,

00:11:32.740 so if you go back

00:11:33.900 to the TERFs,

00:11:34.460 if you look at Skinnerism,

00:11:35.540 so we're talking

00:11:35.940 like 1920s psychology,

00:11:37.880 they actually believed

00:11:39.040 in, like,

00:11:39.460 the tabula rasa

00:11:40.600 in humans.

00:11:41.880 They believed

00:11:42.220 that all humans

00:11:42.660 were a blank slate.

00:11:43.860 Yeah, you could condition

00:11:44.760 a human to be into anything,

00:11:46.620 to want anything,

00:11:47.320 to do anything.

00:11:48.420 100% based on how they're raised.

00:11:50.260 100% based on their experiences.

00:11:52.660 And this was

00:11:53.680 mainstream psychology

00:11:55.040 out of the top universities

00:11:56.140 for a period of, like,

00:11:57.880 15 years.

00:11:59.100 And it was

00:12:00.280 mainstream psychology

00:12:01.340 during a period

00:12:02.400 where the current

00:12:03.660 progressive ideology

00:12:04.680 was developing itself

00:12:06.020 or communist ideology

00:12:07.240 or whatever you want

00:12:07.760 to call it.

00:12:08.460 That all differences

00:12:09.360 between all groups,

00:12:10.840 men, women,

00:12:12.240 different cultures,

00:12:13.040 et cetera,

00:12:13.480 are primarily caused

00:12:15.060 by discrimination

00:12:16.180 and oppression

00:12:16.880 and that they are,

00:12:18.380 there's nothing

00:12:19.420 that's actually different

00:12:20.540 about anyone.

00:12:21.960 Right?

00:12:22.980 And so they're just

00:12:24.220 holding to this ideology

00:12:25.220 that they were taught

00:12:26.160 was correct in college.

00:12:27.220 They are,

00:12:27.800 in many ways,

00:12:29.340 like the morally

00:12:30.300 upstanding iteration.

00:12:31.740 It's the slimy ones

00:12:32.800 who changed their belief

00:12:33.860 over time

00:12:34.480 or you could say

00:12:35.260 the ones who accepted

00:12:36.100 new evidence.

00:12:37.160 It depends on how you say it.

00:12:38.100 But I do have a level

00:12:39.740 of respect for them

00:12:41.020 in that.

00:12:41.920 Oh, because of

00:12:42.300 logical consistency,

00:12:44.440 at least,

00:12:44.960 I mean,

00:12:45.600 admittedly based on

00:12:47.420 a bad foundation,

00:12:48.820 but.

00:12:49.080 Yeah.

00:12:50.360 So at least

00:12:51.420 they're logically consistent

00:12:52.260 and they're willing

00:12:52.940 to fight for an ideology

00:12:54.460 that gets them

00:12:55.280 tarred and feathered

00:12:55.960 by society.

00:12:56.980 And I always have

00:12:57.600 some level of respect

00:12:58.500 no matter how much

00:12:58.980 I disagree with someone

00:12:59.740 about that.

00:13:00.520 Yeah.

00:13:01.120 Now let's talk about

00:13:01.600 why we think

00:13:02.060 terser so catastrophically

00:13:03.780 stupid.

00:13:05.940 Here we go.

00:13:08.860 Well,

00:13:09.300 this perspective

00:13:09.960 is just wrong.

00:13:11.120 There are differences

00:13:12.000 between men and women.

00:13:13.140 No.

00:13:13.840 Like it's,

00:13:14.440 it's obvious.

00:13:16.080 I think it's obvious

00:13:17.140 to any sane thinking person.

00:13:18.920 You need to,

00:13:20.180 to an extent,

00:13:20.980 like actually be in a cult

00:13:22.300 to not see that

00:13:23.400 men and women

00:13:23.780 are different.

00:13:24.800 Yeah.

00:13:25.060 I mean,

00:13:25.320 well,

00:13:25.460 I mean,

00:13:25.760 yeah,

00:13:25.980 size behavior,

00:13:28.700 brain scans,

00:13:30.020 it's kind of hard

00:13:31.340 to find a realm

00:13:32.400 in which there are not

00:13:33.920 on average differences

00:13:35.560 between men and women.

00:13:36.960 And of course,

00:13:37.560 there are some men

00:13:39.160 who are more womanly

00:13:40.300 than some women

00:13:41.860 and vice versa,

00:13:43.420 but on average.

00:13:44.760 And they will argue,

00:13:45.800 well,

00:13:46.020 all these differences,

00:13:47.000 even the brain differences

00:13:47.760 are caused by socialization.

00:13:49.120 Like wouldn't socialization

00:13:49.960 cause different brain structures?

00:13:51.340 And then you can read

00:13:51.760 these terribly sad stories

00:13:53.160 that you've told me about

00:13:54.540 where like people

00:13:55.080 will try to raise

00:13:55.800 their kids as gender neutral.

00:13:57.920 And the kids will be like,

00:13:59.060 but I want to play with a doll

00:14:00.140 and they end up getting punished

00:14:01.060 with their parents

00:14:01.680 or their,

00:14:02.180 I want to,

00:14:02.620 I want to do this gender behavior.

00:14:04.180 Their parents catch them

00:14:05.140 cradling their truck

00:14:07.580 and trying to comfort it.

00:14:09.460 Yeah.

00:14:09.740 This was a little girl

00:14:10.580 who this happened to.

00:14:11.300 Is that not the saddest thing?

00:14:12.700 Like trying to twist

00:14:14.680 human nature

00:14:15.520 to fit a political agenda.

00:14:19.040 Yeah.

00:14:19.680 I mean,

00:14:20.240 you know,

00:14:20.600 the thing is though,

00:14:21.360 like I think

00:14:22.640 we admit

00:14:23.860 that there is nuance here

00:14:25.360 and that like

00:14:25.940 there are some girls

00:14:26.700 who don't want to play with dolls

00:14:27.980 and you shouldn't try

00:14:28.600 to force anyone

00:14:29.280 to any particular thing

00:14:30.380 because there is variation

00:14:32.380 between people,

00:14:33.480 between and among people.

00:14:34.960 But again,

00:14:35.280 on average,

00:14:35.960 you know,

00:14:36.240 to deny the fact

00:14:36.980 that there are differences

00:14:38.100 is pretty insane.

00:14:39.620 Yeah.

00:14:39.820 And to try to force people

00:14:40.840 into some kind of sameness

00:14:42.880 is not going to help stuff.

00:14:46.120 Well,

00:14:46.860 they just keep trying.

00:14:48.640 There's been a number

00:14:49.120 of instances

00:14:49.600 and I'm going to see

00:14:50.080 if I can find a picture

00:14:50.780 of this

00:14:51.040 where they have tried

00:14:51.900 to raise kids as gender

00:14:53.080 neutrally as possible

00:14:53.960 and it just doesn't work.

00:14:55.700 Now,

00:14:56.380 to give them credit,

00:14:57.760 to give them credit,

00:14:58.540 when I say work,

00:14:59.340 it messes the kids up

00:15:00.640 like a lot.

00:15:01.940 Like it causes

00:15:02.440 major psychological issues

00:15:03.820 which in a way

00:15:05.640 does defend the trans idea

00:15:07.600 that we are

00:15:08.800 to an extent

00:15:09.260 born with a gender

00:15:10.000 and that if you try

00:15:10.700 to raise the person

00:15:11.560 as the wrong gender

00:15:12.220 that's going to cause problems.

00:15:13.440 But I will give them credit

00:15:16.500 and say that like

00:15:17.220 you can look at studies

00:15:17.920 and even at five months

00:15:18.880 people do treat infants

00:15:20.500 differently

00:15:21.000 based on their gender.

00:15:22.360 Yeah.

00:15:22.680 You know,

00:15:23.020 like people will be

00:15:23.480 much more likely

00:15:23.960 to call girl infants

00:15:25.340 like pretty compliment.

00:15:27.140 Yeah,

00:15:27.340 and to call boy infants

00:15:28.500 strong,

00:15:29.260 et cetera.

00:15:30.060 Yeah.

00:15:30.380 And so does this affect them?

00:15:32.560 No.

00:15:33.180 Fucking obviously

00:15:34.060 it doesn't affect them.

00:15:35.220 They are infants.

00:15:36.040 They don't understand

00:15:36.880 what you're saying.

00:15:37.860 And anyone who has been

00:15:39.140 a parent can tell you

00:15:40.500 that infants

00:15:41.400 sow their gender

00:15:42.360 by like

00:15:43.320 really strongly

00:15:44.380 within like

00:15:45.880 the first few months.

00:15:47.760 It's really,

00:15:48.920 really obvious.

00:15:51.760 But anyway,

00:15:52.540 sorry.

00:15:53.580 It's always like,

00:15:55.100 oh,

00:15:55.320 here's some kernel

00:15:56.180 of thing

00:15:56.620 where they have a point.

00:15:57.940 But like,

00:15:59.640 are you fucking kidding me?

00:16:01.460 Like,

00:16:01.840 obviously men and women

00:16:02.820 are different.

00:16:03.760 Obviously.

00:16:04.940 This is a dumb hill

00:16:06.100 to die on

00:16:06.860 and it's a dumb ideology

00:16:08.000 to die with.

00:16:09.460 Now.

00:16:09.940 So then why do you think

00:16:10.980 TERFs have

00:16:11.800 at least a small group

00:16:13.200 of TERFs have

00:16:13.920 managed to gain

00:16:15.080 so much outsized influence

00:16:16.580 in the United Kingdom

00:16:17.640 specifically?

00:16:18.660 What happened there?

00:16:20.000 Yeah.

00:16:20.400 So conservative ideology

00:16:22.040 in the United Kingdom

00:16:22.840 is not like conservative

00:16:23.980 ideology in the US.

00:16:25.200 In the United States,

00:16:26.800 conservative ideology,

00:16:27.760 like when I talk

00:16:28.240 to conservatives,

00:16:28.860 I'm like,

00:16:29.100 what do you want?

00:16:30.420 They talk from the perspective

00:16:31.680 of their cultural group.

00:16:32.860 Right.

00:16:33.060 I,

00:16:33.820 as a,

00:16:35.000 you know,

00:16:35.520 recent Nigerian immigrant

00:16:36.600 want this.

00:16:38.000 I,

00:16:38.580 as a traditional Catholic

00:16:40.020 want this.

00:16:41.180 I,

00:16:41.840 as a Muslim

00:16:42.760 want this.

00:16:43.960 Right.

00:16:44.360 Their conservative ideas

00:16:46.100 are motivated

00:16:47.340 by culture

00:16:49.120 and faith.

00:16:50.840 Okay?

00:16:52.040 Like a unique,

00:16:53.080 distinct culture.

00:16:54.360 In the UK,

00:16:55.700 there is a belief,

00:16:56.620 this is not true.

00:16:58.360 Conservatism

00:16:58.880 is very rarely

00:17:00.140 motivated by religious

00:17:01.180 ideology in the UK

00:17:02.180 because there just

00:17:03.100 isn't enough of it.

00:17:04.120 It is too secular

00:17:05.120 a culture

00:17:05.660 to have a persistent

00:17:06.940 conservative base

00:17:08.300 that is motivated

00:17:08.980 by religious ideology.

00:17:10.500 Yeah.

00:17:10.780 So instead,

00:17:11.700 their conservative base

00:17:12.580 is motivated by

00:17:13.700 what I call like

00:17:17.960 small C conservatism.

00:17:19.460 Like,

00:17:19.680 let's go back

00:17:20.220 to the way

00:17:20.580 things used to be.

00:17:21.340 Yeah.

00:17:21.580 We'll just say

00:17:22.180 curmudgeonly resistance

00:17:23.240 to change.

00:17:23.940 Can we say that?

00:17:24.720 Exactly.

00:17:25.320 Curmudgeonly resistant

00:17:26.140 to change.

00:17:26.900 And who would be

00:17:28.420 more curmudgeonly

00:17:29.620 and resistant

00:17:30.420 to change

00:17:31.360 than 1970s feminists?

00:17:34.520 These women

00:17:35.280 were not known

00:17:36.020 for their logic.

00:17:37.140 These women,

00:17:37.700 historically,

00:17:38.420 look at videos

00:17:38.880 like PCU

00:17:39.600 or something like that.

00:17:40.880 Everybody always knew

00:17:42.020 that this early iteration

00:17:43.180 of the feminist movement

00:17:44.200 was like fucking bonkers

00:17:45.920 and completely dislocated

00:17:47.760 from reality.

00:17:48.820 Hey, Sam,

00:17:49.500 isn't that the guy

00:17:50.140 that you used to, uh...

00:17:51.420 You went out

00:17:53.200 with a white male?

00:17:54.880 I was a freshman.

00:17:56.160 Fresh person,

00:17:57.180 please.

00:17:57.580 Please.

00:17:57.900 He's coming over here.

00:18:00.380 Sister,

00:18:01.000 it's from the law!

00:18:02.800 No, you don't...

00:18:03.900 Is Sam in there?

00:18:05.220 In there?

00:18:06.320 What's that supposed to mean?

00:18:07.540 Yeah,

00:18:08.040 cock man,

00:18:08.680 oppressor.

00:18:09.720 And that,

00:18:11.180 of course,

00:18:13.520 as they aged,

00:18:14.640 they didn't adopt

00:18:15.540 new science.

00:18:16.160 Of course,

00:18:16.700 as they aged,

00:18:17.500 because their entire ideology

00:18:18.920 to begin with

00:18:19.740 was stupid

00:18:20.300 and reactionary.

00:18:21.680 And honestly,

00:18:23.020 I think to a large extent,

00:18:23.960 used for them

00:18:24.660 to gain access

00:18:25.260 to sexual partners,

00:18:26.600 to bully sexual partners.

00:18:28.180 I'm sorry,

00:18:28.500 I'm just saying.

00:18:29.420 And so,

00:18:30.300 of course,

00:18:30.860 they now

00:18:31.920 are some of the people

00:18:33.340 who want things

00:18:34.200 to change the least

00:18:35.400 in society.

00:18:36.500 They want

00:18:37.540 progressivism

00:18:39.060 to go back

00:18:39.880 to an older iteration

00:18:41.040 of progressivism,

00:18:41.920 but they are,

00:18:42.920 and to be clear,

00:18:43.820 not fighting

00:18:44.620 for any real

00:18:45.240 conservative value set.

00:18:46.400 They are temporary,

00:18:47.940 not even temporary allies.

00:18:49.120 They're reactionaries,

00:18:50.060 right?

00:18:50.320 I mean,

00:18:50.460 I think it's more

00:18:51.580 about defending something

00:18:52.760 that they feel

00:18:53.360 is under threat.

00:18:54.160 It's not about

00:18:54.640 proactively creating

00:18:55.600 something that they want.

00:18:57.660 Yeah.

00:18:58.540 Yeah.

00:18:59.100 No,

00:18:59.440 I will say,

00:19:00.000 and I had mentioned

00:19:00.760 this earlier,

00:19:01.420 so when I'm talking

00:19:02.000 about where a lot

00:19:03.400 of them have it

00:19:04.380 at peak,

00:19:05.380 is they then have

00:19:06.320 this forced on them.

00:19:07.800 They used to do

00:19:08.480 this political lesbian

00:19:09.360 thing to force

00:19:11.040 straight women

00:19:11.960 to sleep with them

00:19:12.660 and pressure

00:19:12.980 straight women

00:19:13.360 to sleep with them,

00:19:13.960 and now they're

00:19:14.300 getting the,

00:19:15.260 well,

00:19:15.740 not liking girl dick

00:19:16.960 makes you a bigot,

00:19:18.420 and they don't like

00:19:19.540 the tables being

00:19:20.320 turned on them,

00:19:21.520 and of course,

00:19:22.200 it feels horrible

00:19:23.000 to them.

00:19:23.360 Of course,

00:19:23.740 it feels horrible

00:19:24.280 to them,

00:19:24.600 because it does

00:19:25.140 feel horrible

00:19:25.640 to have a person

00:19:27.100 use their politics

00:19:28.020 to pressure you

00:19:28.840 into a sexual

00:19:29.400 relationship.

00:19:30.540 And also to build

00:19:31.520 what you think

00:19:32.220 are safe spaces

00:19:33.140 for yourself,

00:19:33.940 only to have them

00:19:34.760 invaded by kind of

00:19:36.400 exactly the people

00:19:37.160 that you want to

00:19:37.800 have out of your

00:19:38.420 treehouse.

00:19:39.820 Yeah,

00:19:40.020 well,

00:19:40.320 I mean,

00:19:40.680 and to be clear,

00:19:41.500 I don't think

00:19:41.920 that these spaces

00:19:42.460 were really safe.

00:19:43.360 I think that these

00:19:43.920 were spaces

00:19:44.360 that they ruled.

00:19:45.340 It reminds me

00:19:46.180 of our kids.

00:19:47.540 We caught Octavian

00:19:49.240 giving his younger

00:19:50.280 brother Toasty

00:19:50.840 a bad deal

00:19:51.860 at one point

00:19:52.560 with toys,

00:19:53.620 and we turned

00:19:54.020 around in the car

00:19:54.700 and we said,

00:19:55.220 hey,

00:19:55.520 stop it,

00:19:56.060 Octavia.

00:19:56.900 Toasty,

00:19:57.420 you don't need

00:19:57.980 to do what he

00:19:58.440 says.

00:19:58.980 And he goes,

00:19:59.840 mama,

00:20:00.560 dada,

00:20:01.280 do not talk

00:20:02.100 to the little

00:20:02.520 ones,

00:20:02.980 because he had

00:20:04.760 worked out this

00:20:05.480 little system

00:20:06.100 that gave him

00:20:07.240 a huge advantage

00:20:08.260 within this little

00:20:09.520 social sphere

00:20:10.300 that he had

00:20:10.800 created that he

00:20:12.080 was using to

00:20:13.020 systemically abuse

00:20:14.080 another person.

00:20:14.780 And I don't

00:20:15.900 think that all

00:20:16.360 of them are

00:20:16.680 doing this

00:20:17.040 in the same

00:20:17.460 way that I

00:20:17.980 don't think

00:20:18.360 that all

00:20:18.900 trans women

00:20:19.900 in lesbian

00:20:20.660 communities are

00:20:21.680 there to

00:20:22.360 abuse women.

00:20:23.020 But I think

00:20:23.320 a minority,

00:20:24.920 like,

00:20:25.260 does it happen?

00:20:26.260 Do people

00:20:26.840 who are,

00:20:27.240 like,

00:20:27.320 not passing

00:20:27.880 at all go

00:20:28.400 in and say,

00:20:29.120 if you do

00:20:29.620 not sleep

00:20:30.120 with me,

00:20:30.500 then you

00:20:30.920 are a bigot

00:20:31.580 and you

00:20:31.960 are a transphobe?

00:20:32.800 And they

00:20:33.220 use this to

00:20:34.140 get lesbians

00:20:35.680 who have been

00:20:36.260 in these

00:20:36.460 communities for

00:20:36.960 a long time

00:20:37.460 kicked out of

00:20:38.060 communities that

00:20:38.920 they really

00:20:39.320 identified with

00:20:40.080 that were a

00:20:40.500 core part of

00:20:41.220 their identity?

00:20:42.300 Yeah,

00:20:42.680 this happens.

00:20:43.720 This actually

00:20:44.780 right?

00:20:45.200 Like,

00:20:45.760 and I can

00:20:46.200 understand why

00:20:46.700 one of these

00:20:47.080 women would

00:20:47.820 then be like,

00:20:48.400 okay,

00:20:48.800 Fatwa on you,

00:20:49.640 you know,

00:20:50.320 I dedicate my

00:20:51.600 life to

00:20:52.080 destroying you

00:20:52.700 and everything

00:20:53.100 you care about

00:20:53.760 because you

00:20:54.260 destroyed my

00:20:55.220 sense of

00:20:55.620 identity.

00:20:56.300 Because these

00:20:56.860 are often

00:20:57.140 people without

00:20:57.600 kids,

00:20:58.180 you know,

00:20:58.400 they're people

00:20:59.020 who all they

00:21:00.440 had was their

00:21:01.260 community and

00:21:02.320 their identity

00:21:03.080 as good people,

00:21:04.340 which they

00:21:04.960 believed came

00:21:05.700 from their

00:21:06.140 belief that

00:21:06.820 there are no

00:21:07.340 differences between

00:21:08.080 any humans.

00:21:09.900 But I would say

00:21:10.400 this is more,

00:21:11.260 you've implied that

00:21:12.020 it's sort of

00:21:12.380 about getting

00:21:12.840 sexual partners.

00:21:13.860 I really think

00:21:14.460 it's more about

00:21:14.920 power than

00:21:15.500 it is about

00:21:15.980 sex.

00:21:16.900 Okay,

00:21:17.160 yeah,

00:21:17.340 I'd agree with

00:21:17.900 that as well.

00:21:18.260 Yeah,

00:21:18.340 they wanted

00:21:18.760 power was in

00:21:19.400 these communities

00:21:19.960 that they had

00:21:20.860 isolated access

00:21:21.780 to.

00:21:22.760 Yeah,

00:21:23.000 and I mean,

00:21:23.380 I think when it

00:21:23.860 comes to

00:21:24.580 trans stuff in

00:21:26.060 general,

00:21:26.400 there's a lot

00:21:26.900 of frustration

00:21:27.440 among groups

00:21:30.560 more inclined

00:21:31.680 to favor women

00:21:33.300 or want to

00:21:34.300 protect women

00:21:34.960 or give them

00:21:35.460 a special place

00:21:36.460 to be really

00:21:37.600 frustrated when

00:21:38.580 men or

00:21:39.660 formerly men

00:21:40.960 enter women's

00:21:41.880 spaces because

00:21:42.600 men still

00:21:43.440 often come in

00:21:44.400 with huge

00:21:44.940 advantages

00:21:45.540 physically,

00:21:46.900 mentally,

00:21:47.400 et cetera.

00:21:48.300 I remember

00:21:48.700 when we were

00:21:49.520 at an event

00:21:50.020 at one point

00:21:50.500 and someone

00:21:50.940 said that

00:21:51.280 they were

00:21:51.440 going to

00:21:51.600 go and

00:21:52.000 cover a

00:21:53.680 trans man

00:21:54.900 competing in

00:21:55.520 a women's

00:21:56.040 chess tournament

00:21:56.660 and I was

00:21:57.980 like,

00:21:58.440 wow,

00:21:58.800 so I mean,

00:21:59.840 you know,

00:22:00.140 how are you

00:22:00.500 going to

00:22:00.860 cover the

00:22:01.480 fact that

00:22:01.980 like she's

00:22:02.600 coming in

00:22:02.940 with a

00:22:03.200 systemic

00:22:03.540 advantage?

00:22:03.980 Like,

00:22:04.480 you know,

00:22:05.180 men historically

00:22:06.100 have out

00:22:06.640 competed women

00:22:07.280 quite significantly

00:22:08.060 in chess

00:22:08.640 and, you know,

00:22:09.480 many other

00:22:09.880 fields.

00:22:10.280 The reporter

00:22:11.120 who was

00:22:11.520 trans had

00:22:11.960 never heard

00:22:12.640 of this.

00:22:13.560 Yeah,

00:22:13.700 it was like,

00:22:14.060 oh,

00:22:14.140 no,

00:22:14.280 no,

00:22:14.320 no,

00:22:14.400 that's just

00:22:14.760 because,

00:22:15.220 you know,

00:22:15.700 in, you know,

00:22:16.260 women in chess

00:22:16.980 face, you know,

00:22:18.320 significant discrimination.

00:22:19.840 There was no

00:22:20.720 acknowledgement of

00:22:22.580 any sort of

00:22:23.600 male advantage

00:22:24.580 that may exist,

00:22:26.980 like male,

00:22:28.000 natal male brain

00:22:28.900 advantage that

00:22:29.660 exists in the

00:22:30.400 game of chess.

00:22:31.680 I don't know.

00:22:32.260 I think that's

00:22:32.820 interesting in that

00:22:33.360 like the view

00:22:33.880 actually that this

00:22:34.640 one journalist

00:22:35.380 expressed was

00:22:36.620 sort of

00:22:38.820 turf-ish

00:22:39.620 blank slate-ism.

00:22:41.140 Yeah,

00:22:41.480 it's very

00:22:41.740 interesting that

00:22:42.360 I recently,

00:22:43.400 and I have

00:22:43.920 seen this,

00:22:44.380 and this is

00:22:44.760 dumb progressives

00:22:45.780 do this often,

00:22:46.900 where they will

00:22:47.360 argue turf

00:22:48.140 positions without

00:22:48.980 thinking through

00:22:49.580 the consequences

00:22:50.180 of what they're

00:22:50.740 arguing.

00:22:51.600 Gosh,

00:22:51.960 if only incels

00:22:52.620 could figure out

00:22:53.240 that the real

00:22:53.700 red pill is

00:22:54.620 realizing that

00:22:55.280 gender is a

00:22:55.840 social construct

00:22:56.620 and that chaos

00:22:57.320 is the general

00:22:58.000 order of the

00:22:58.560 universe.

00:22:59.240 It's about

00:22:59.500 learning to

00:22:59.900 stop living

00:23:00.380 your life

00:23:00.840 for the

00:23:01.240 binaries of

00:23:02.000 old and start

00:23:02.680 exploring yourself

00:23:03.440 as a whole

00:23:04.060 intersectional being.

00:23:05.480 And that one

00:23:05.920 is one I hear

00:23:06.440 very frequently,

00:23:07.360 is I'll see

00:23:07.880 progressives who

00:23:08.580 are young and

00:23:09.340 don't really

00:23:09.760 understand the

00:23:11.780 core philosophy

00:23:12.700 that is mainstream

00:23:13.520 in the progressive

00:23:14.100 party right now,

00:23:15.180 and they will

00:23:15.700 make arguments

00:23:16.340 like men and

00:23:17.000 women are not

00:23:17.560 different at all,

00:23:18.260 how dare you

00:23:18.860 claim that,

00:23:19.780 how dare you

00:23:20.320 claim there's

00:23:20.700 any psychological

00:23:21.240 differences between

00:23:22.000 men and women.

00:23:22.940 And when I point

00:23:23.460 out to them,

00:23:23.840 I go,

00:23:24.020 you know that's

00:23:24.460 a turf position,

00:23:25.640 right?

00:23:25.840 Like this is not

00:23:26.420 something other

00:23:26.980 progressives believe.

00:23:28.240 They're like,

00:23:28.640 nuh-uh,

00:23:29.560 nuh-uh,

00:23:30.000 I hate turfs,

00:23:31.000 because they've

00:23:31.240 been told to hate

00:23:31.820 turfs,

00:23:32.160 and they just

00:23:32.640 haven't really

00:23:33.420 updated themselves

00:23:34.180 on the new

00:23:34.700 iteration of

00:23:35.340 progressive philosophy.

00:23:36.300 And I think that

00:23:36.660 that's what we were

00:23:37.180 seeing was that

00:23:37.680 individual.

00:23:38.540 There's a lot of

00:23:39.100 people who are

00:23:39.620 just sort of,

00:23:41.260 their world

00:23:41.960 perspectives are

00:23:42.720 not based on

00:23:43.300 any sort of

00:23:43.760 cohesive logic.

00:23:45.180 They are just

00:23:45.960 based on like the

00:23:47.160 last marching

00:23:47.760 orders they were

00:23:48.360 given,

00:23:49.140 and the fight in

00:23:50.140 the progressive

00:23:50.500 space is who

00:23:51.260 gets to give

00:23:51.600 these marching

00:23:51.960 orders.

00:23:52.640 And I also want

00:23:53.380 to point out,

00:23:53.880 you know,

00:23:54.020 when we were

00:23:54.320 talking about

00:23:54.900 like the power

00:23:55.480 structures in

00:23:56.140 these lesbian

00:23:56.660 communities before

00:23:57.500 the trans women

00:23:59.340 came into them,

00:24:00.540 and people might be

00:24:01.260 like,

00:24:01.500 you are really

00:24:02.500 reaching to say

00:24:03.200 that these

00:24:03.460 communities were

00:24:03.960 abusive.

00:24:04.260 No,

00:24:04.880 seriously,

00:24:05.300 look at the

00:24:05.780 rates of abuse

00:24:06.400 in these

00:24:06.640 communities.

00:24:07.440 They were

00:24:07.780 wildly high when

00:24:09.540 contrasted with

00:24:10.300 heterosexual

00:24:10.800 relationships or

00:24:11.700 gay male

00:24:12.140 relationships.

00:24:13.020 They were

00:24:13.740 abusive communities

00:24:14.680 before that were

00:24:15.560 controlled by an

00:24:16.820 abusive sort of

00:24:17.940 elite class of,

00:24:19.300 or not elite class,

00:24:20.260 an abusive dominant

00:24:21.320 class of women.

00:24:22.380 When I was editing

00:24:23.040 this video,

00:24:23.820 I was looking for a

00:24:25.120 chart to put here,

00:24:26.100 and I am shocked

00:24:26.800 by these numbers.

00:24:27.840 44% of lesbian

00:24:29.560 women have

00:24:30.460 experienced abuse

00:24:31.740 from their partner.

00:24:32.460 Now,

00:24:33.040 what's really

00:24:33.780 interesting is

00:24:34.820 the one category

00:24:35.800 of women that

00:24:36.600 has a higher

00:24:37.280 rate of abuse

00:24:38.100 than lesbian

00:24:38.760 women is

00:24:39.540 bisexual women

00:24:40.540 with 61%.

00:24:42.000 This would make

00:24:42.920 sense if our

00:24:44.040 theory about a

00:24:45.660 class of mostly

00:24:46.980 straight women

00:24:47.600 in lesbian

00:24:48.460 communities being

00:24:49.400 gaslit by this

00:24:51.120 concept of

00:24:52.100 political lesbianism

00:24:53.440 and then abused

00:24:54.500 into staying

00:24:55.260 within these

00:24:55.840 communities was

00:24:57.080 accurate.

00:24:57.520 And you often

00:24:58.920 see this even

00:25:00.100 in stereotypes

00:25:01.500 of these movements.

00:25:02.600 This is why

00:25:03.040 when you look at

00:25:03.700 the old school

00:25:04.300 feminist movement,

00:25:05.440 like the Women

00:25:06.080 and Women First

00:25:06.640 skits from

00:25:07.120 Portlandia,

00:25:08.120 you see these

00:25:08.860 people engaging

00:25:09.600 in so much

00:25:10.160 gaslighting and

00:25:11.220 abusive behavior.

00:25:11.980 You want this

00:25:12.280 vagina pillow?

00:25:12.760 No one does.

00:25:13.680 Especially for

00:25:14.160 the little one.

00:25:14.980 The little one

00:25:15.700 does not need

00:25:16.220 a vagina pillow.

00:25:17.460 He doesn't need

00:25:17.980 a vagina.

00:25:18.080 We don't want

00:25:18.580 to know the

00:25:19.300 gender of the

00:25:20.420 baby.

00:25:20.760 We don't want

00:25:21.160 to know the

00:25:21.500 sex, and you

00:25:22.020 know that.

00:25:22.600 I don't know

00:25:22.960 your gender.

00:25:23.800 I don't know

00:25:24.240 Candace's.

00:25:24.840 I don't know

00:25:25.200 mine.

00:25:25.700 You don't know

00:25:26.100 my gender?

00:25:26.760 I don't.

00:25:27.600 Do I look

00:25:28.120 like a woman?

00:25:28.560 I don't know

00:25:28.900 what a woman

00:25:29.260 looks like.

00:25:31.580 Do you?

00:25:32.320 I just feel

00:25:33.240 like I'm good

00:25:33.840 at recognizing

00:25:34.500 a woman when

00:25:35.140 I see one.

00:25:36.520 What are you?

00:25:37.320 You're a detective?

00:25:38.380 A gender detective?

00:25:39.400 No, I just...

00:25:40.400 Lifting up skirts

00:25:41.260 and pulling down

00:25:41.860 pants and just

00:25:42.520 getting in there

00:25:42.880 with your magnifying

00:25:43.580 glass?

00:25:43.780 I've never done

00:25:44.540 that.

00:25:45.040 I didn't even

00:25:45.660 consider your gender.

00:25:46.860 I know, you

00:25:47.360 still don't.

00:25:47.960 I didn't...

00:25:48.260 I've accepted

00:25:49.400 it now.

00:25:50.220 I accept you're

00:25:51.040 a man.

00:25:51.680 Thank you.

00:25:52.080 I accept you

00:25:52.140 have a penis.

00:25:53.520 That doesn't mean

00:25:54.220 it's going to

00:25:54.540 stay that way.

00:25:55.120 Excuse me?

00:25:56.060 I raised you

00:25:56.640 right.

00:25:57.800 Do you remember?

00:25:58.980 I do.

00:25:59.740 I definitely

00:26:00.680 kept it fuzzy

00:26:01.620 when it came

00:26:02.240 to what gender

00:26:03.040 you are.

00:26:03.660 Not raising you

00:26:04.300 by any kind

00:26:04.760 of binary gender

00:26:05.560 code.

00:26:05.940 Do you remember

00:26:06.220 I'd dress you

00:26:06.740 up in a ballerina

00:26:07.460 costume one day

00:26:08.700 and the next

00:26:09.260 one a sailor

00:26:09.940 outfit and...

00:26:10.900 So confusing.

00:26:11.820 I'm proud of

00:26:12.380 you.

00:26:12.560 You know that,

00:26:13.020 right?

00:26:13.180 Even though

00:26:13.480 you're a man.

00:26:14.100 Because that's

00:26:14.340 just really

00:26:14.860 common.

00:26:15.860 More just

00:26:16.420 like female

00:26:17.700 style behavior.

00:26:19.920 I mean,

00:26:20.140 I think they're...

00:26:21.120 And I would

00:26:21.880 say that...

00:26:22.460 I don't know

00:26:23.100 how this works.

00:26:23.720 Like we have...

00:26:25.180 You know,

00:26:25.320 for example,

00:26:25.700 our company

00:26:26.140 is the vast

00:26:27.880 majority female

00:26:28.680 and it is not

00:26:29.660 even remotely

00:26:30.180 toxic, right?

00:26:31.000 Like it's actually

00:26:31.680 a great company.

00:26:32.640 These are like

00:26:33.340 no-nonsense,

00:26:34.640 extremely professional

00:26:35.400 women that we

00:26:36.040 work with.

00:26:36.660 But then you also

00:26:37.380 hear about these

00:26:37.880 other companies

00:26:38.440 that are just

00:26:39.400 extremely toxic

00:26:40.500 women-run companies.

00:26:41.760 Because you didn't

00:26:42.180 hire them to be

00:26:43.280 a woman-run company.

00:26:44.180 The other companies

00:26:44.860 where I've seen

00:26:45.240 them get really toxic,

00:26:46.140 they're like,

00:26:46.460 let's only hire women.

00:26:48.000 You primarily...

00:26:49.100 I think there's

00:26:49.420 something toxic

00:26:50.280 in like specifically

00:26:51.480 preferential treatment

00:26:52.680 toward women

00:26:53.340 or like a woman

00:26:54.300 first culture.

00:26:56.000 Yes, yes.

00:26:57.100 Interesting.

00:26:58.380 Well, because I think,

00:26:59.820 and I hate to say this,

00:27:00.820 I think it's the women

00:27:01.800 who are motivated

00:27:02.760 to create those cultures

00:27:04.100 where the toxins

00:27:05.600 are the most toxic.

00:27:06.880 So they will often

00:27:08.000 be like,

00:27:08.420 oh, all of these women

00:27:09.140 I brought in

00:27:09.640 were terrible

00:27:10.240 and it's like,

00:27:10.800 why did you bring

00:27:11.560 these women in

00:27:12.520 over other women?

00:27:13.300 Why when my wife

00:27:14.100 is creating a...

00:27:15.100 Basically all women

00:27:15.980 in gay male company,

00:27:17.280 we have almost

00:27:17.980 no toxicity

00:27:18.580 in our company,

00:27:19.780 but when they

00:27:20.860 are bringing in women,

00:27:21.860 they create this level

00:27:22.880 of toxicity

00:27:23.440 is because they brought

00:27:24.600 in women who they

00:27:25.220 wanted to be able

00:27:25.840 to control.

00:27:26.940 And that's part of

00:27:27.780 why they didn't want men

00:27:28.480 because the techniques

00:27:29.860 that they were using

00:27:30.540 to control people,

00:27:31.340 they couldn't exercise

00:27:32.640 on men as easily.

00:27:34.860 We had a follow-up

00:27:36.240 theory to this.

00:27:37.180 It could be that

00:27:37.980 almost all of the women

00:27:38.880 we hire in our company

00:27:39.920 are mothers

00:27:40.660 and that when women

00:27:43.020 become mothers,

00:27:43.980 the way that they

00:27:44.880 interact with their women

00:27:45.940 changes systemically.

00:27:47.720 You know,

00:27:48.260 as we often say,

00:27:49.500 in different stages

00:27:50.400 of an individual's life,

00:27:51.360 you're going to have

00:27:51.940 different emotional impulses.

00:27:53.940 And when women are younger,

00:27:54.800 it makes sense to have

00:27:55.880 class status fights

00:27:56.920 with other women

00:27:57.720 in order to secure a mate.

00:27:59.520 But once you have

00:28:00.180 secured a mate

00:28:00.720 and you start having kids,

00:28:01.860 it makes more sense

00:28:02.880 to cooperate with other women

00:28:04.140 as much as possible.

00:28:05.800 Another thing I wanted

00:28:06.680 to ask you is,

00:28:07.580 don't you think

00:28:08.680 that actually the TERF view

00:28:11.060 is the predominating view

00:28:12.920 fundamentally

00:28:13.940 in progressive culture

00:28:15.200 and that hereditarian views,

00:28:17.460 that is to say

00:28:18.040 any sort of view

00:28:18.900 where people

00:28:20.500 inherit genetic traits

00:28:22.020 and genders

00:28:22.880 are, you know,

00:28:23.800 inherit actual differences

00:28:25.760 is actually considered

00:28:27.700 quite controversial

00:28:28.540 and questionable.

00:28:30.260 Whereas, like,

00:28:31.200 mainstream culture

00:28:31.960 is much more comfortable

00:28:32.840 with just accepting

00:28:34.200 that everyone starts

00:28:35.080 at a blank,

00:28:35.700 as a blank slate

00:28:36.860 and it is society's fault

00:28:38.160 if anything is different.

00:28:40.000 No, I can see

00:28:40.100 why it's appealing.

00:28:40.980 The problem is

00:28:41.600 is that if you take

00:28:42.620 a perspective

00:28:43.160 that there are no differences

00:28:44.120 between men and women,

00:28:45.000 it is really hard

00:28:46.160 to argue

00:28:46.720 that transness

00:28:48.560 is, like,

00:28:48.920 a meaningful thing.

00:28:52.860 Like,

00:28:53.380 the TERF perspective,

00:28:54.760 if you take that perspective,

00:28:56.420 there are no differences

00:28:57.140 at all between men and women,

00:28:58.600 Yeah.

00:28:59.040 is the correct perspective.

00:29:00.300 It is the logically

00:29:02.000 consistent perspective.

00:29:02.960 I can think of

00:29:03.780 no logically consistent way

00:29:05.420 if men and women

00:29:06.560 actually were

00:29:07.520 exactly the same

00:29:08.580 and all the differences

00:29:09.280 we perceive

00:29:09.780 between men and women

00:29:10.400 are due to

00:29:11.100 social conditioning

00:29:11.860 that you could argue

00:29:13.240 that we are making society

00:29:14.460 a better place

00:29:15.420 by affirming

00:29:17.200 these gendered,

00:29:19.160 what the TERF would see

00:29:20.100 as gendered stereotypes

00:29:21.040 in trans individuals.

00:29:23.680 Hmm.

00:29:24.820 I mean, can you?

00:29:25.600 Maybe I'm missing

00:29:26.440 some, like,

00:29:26.980 logical pathway here.

00:29:28.060 Well, more of what I was saying

00:29:30.520 is, like,

00:29:30.980 isn't that the mainstream view

00:29:32.360 in the end

00:29:33.020 in progressive society?

00:29:35.260 No, it's not.

00:29:37.500 How is the mainstream view different?

00:29:39.920 Well, so the new mainstream

00:29:40.940 perspective in progressive society

00:29:42.560 is men and women

00:29:43.360 are different.

00:29:45.300 Is that the view?

00:29:46.680 Well, so it's interesting

00:29:47.840 that you say this.

00:29:48.640 I think it's...

00:29:49.700 Okay, well,

00:29:50.080 I'll word it differently.

00:29:51.300 The people who control

00:29:52.540 the progressive narratives,

00:29:53.640 the academics

00:29:54.180 who write on this stuff,

00:29:55.260 it's their view.

00:29:56.240 It's not the view

00:29:57.340 of the average

00:29:57.940 progressive,

00:29:58.700 which is why TERFs

00:29:59.900 are having such an easy time

00:30:01.440 winning mindshare

00:30:02.480 in places like the UK.

00:30:04.300 Because progressives

00:30:05.180 haven't updated

00:30:06.040 the rank and files

00:30:07.460 answer to this question,

00:30:09.260 and they've just never

00:30:10.240 had it pointed out

00:30:11.180 to them,

00:30:11.960 the incongruity

00:30:12.960 of trans rights

00:30:14.680 and trans people

00:30:16.160 not actually existing

00:30:17.120 and being phonies

00:30:19.080 from the TERF perspective.

00:30:20.940 And so,

00:30:21.680 they just have never

00:30:22.580 really had to combine

00:30:23.660 these two ideas

00:30:24.460 in their head.

00:30:25.500 So they're able

00:30:27.080 to hold both perspectives

00:30:28.280 simultaneously.

00:30:29.360 And so I think

00:30:29.780 that you're right.

00:30:30.440 You are right

00:30:30.980 in that the rank and file

00:30:32.040 progressive foot soldier

00:30:33.360 actually believes

00:30:34.120 there are no differences

00:30:34.860 between men and women,

00:30:35.920 which is what makes them

00:30:37.160 so susceptible

00:30:38.320 to these arguments.

00:30:40.220 Okay.

00:30:42.400 Which is interesting,

00:30:43.420 and it's also,

00:30:44.160 you know,

00:30:44.460 why we have so much grief.

00:30:45.120 Now,

00:30:45.360 I will point out

00:30:46.240 as a final end here,

00:30:47.380 there are people

00:30:48.000 who call themselves TERFs now

00:30:49.360 that don't have this ideology.

00:30:51.040 They're more just

00:30:51.700 what we call, like,

00:30:52.480 trans-skeptical people,

00:30:53.420 and I'm like,

00:30:54.940 they're like,

00:30:55.360 yeah, but this TERF

00:30:56.480 has, like,

00:30:57.300 bigger reaction from people

00:30:58.480 and a bigger movement,

00:30:59.380 so it's what I'm going

00:30:59.820 to call myself.

00:31:00.840 But they're not actually TERFs.

00:31:02.340 TERFs are gender-critical feminists.

00:31:04.200 Like,

00:31:04.500 that is what it means

00:31:06.240 historically.

00:31:07.280 Interesting.

00:31:09.520 Oh,

00:31:10.160 I find it quite interesting.

00:31:11.840 I,

00:31:12.300 I wonder how long

00:31:14.380 it's going to last.

00:31:15.600 I don't think long.

00:31:18.200 Yeah.

00:31:18.760 You think,

00:31:19.120 is it going to die

00:31:19.760 with the generation that...

00:31:21.120 It's going to die

00:31:21.660 with the generation

00:31:22.220 it comes from.

00:31:22.640 There are very few

00:31:23.400 young TERFs.

00:31:24.900 It's just,

00:31:25.460 even young people

00:31:26.180 who call themselves TERFs,

00:31:27.000 they don't even know

00:31:27.660 that TERFism is,

00:31:28.500 like,

00:31:28.600 associated with this

00:31:29.300 gender-critical ideology.

00:31:30.720 Because I've talked

00:31:31.360 to them about it.

00:31:31.840 Like,

00:31:31.980 when we were in the UK,

00:31:32.500 I was like,

00:31:32.920 you know what you're

00:31:33.920 actually saying

00:31:34.520 if you call yourself

00:31:35.160 a TERF.

00:31:36.200 And they're like,

00:31:36.780 no.

00:31:37.740 I didn't know

00:31:38.320 that it was connected

00:31:39.060 to gender-critical ideology.

00:31:40.380 I do believe

00:31:41.060 that men and women

00:31:41.500 are different.

00:31:42.620 Because it's,

00:31:44.120 it's a very hard thing

00:31:45.040 to teach now.

00:31:45.780 It's a very hard thing

00:31:46.440 to argue now.

00:31:47.140 It was never an idea

00:31:48.060 that was that long

00:31:49.000 for this world,

00:31:49.720 I think.

00:31:50.960 Interesting.

00:31:51.580 So that there's

00:31:52.260 sort of this,

00:31:52.800 like,

00:31:53.520 short-lived generation,

00:31:55.620 small group

00:31:56.460 of highly influential women

00:31:58.040 who were able

00:31:59.580 to speak

00:32:00.380 sort of just

00:32:01.420 through dumb luck

00:32:02.820 to the curmudgeonly

00:32:04.520 hatred of change

00:32:05.740 of the people

00:32:06.680 of the UK

00:32:07.180 who lean

00:32:07.860 in a conservative direction.

00:32:09.460 Yeah.

00:32:09.740 It has granted them

00:32:10.500 outsized influence,

00:32:11.580 which will not last

00:32:12.360 for very long.

00:32:13.160 But that's what's going on.

00:32:14.300 Yeah?

00:32:15.100 Yeah.

00:32:15.680 Yeah.

00:32:15.960 Because if you talk

00:32:16.640 to conservatives in the US,

00:32:17.640 you're like,

00:32:17.900 why aren't conservatives

00:32:18.460 in the US turfs?

00:32:19.680 Because they're mostly religious

00:32:20.820 and they believe

00:32:21.380 that men and women

00:32:21.780 are different.

00:32:22.340 And they're like,

00:32:23.620 obviously men and women

00:32:24.540 are different.

00:32:25.020 We have different roles.

00:32:25.740 What are you talking about?

00:32:27.120 Whereas even at conservative

00:32:28.640 conferences in the UK,

00:32:29.720 I got like chastised

00:32:30.860 for saying that.

00:32:32.960 Oh,

00:32:33.420 did you?

00:32:34.360 Yeah.

00:32:35.840 Conservatives in the UK

00:32:36.620 are very strange.

00:32:37.640 It was,

00:32:37.960 it was an interesting experience.

00:32:39.600 The conservatives

00:32:40.000 in the US

00:32:40.520 are much more colorful,

00:32:43.200 much more proactive,

00:32:44.180 and much more sovereign.

00:32:46.300 And by sovereign,

00:32:47.040 I mean,

00:32:47.520 like,

00:32:48.500 they're like,

00:32:49.160 this is my conservative group

00:32:50.800 over here,

00:32:51.600 and we're doing our thing,

00:32:53.060 and we're really excited

00:32:54.040 about it.

00:32:55.020 Whereas in the UK,

00:32:56.040 I think it was much more like,

00:32:57.720 okay,

00:32:58.320 I and all the other UK conservatives

00:33:01.040 are just kind of unhappy

00:33:02.860 about what's going on.

00:33:04.240 And it wasn't like,

00:33:04.980 oh,

00:33:05.260 like,

00:33:05.500 you know,

00:33:05.960 I,

00:33:06.940 this like,

00:33:07.560 you know,

00:33:08.000 the Trabcath,

00:33:09.360 like,

00:33:09.580 we're building weird stuff.

00:33:10.860 It was more just like,

00:33:11.900 hmm,

00:33:13.160 I don't know about this.

00:33:15.140 Very interesting.

00:33:16.140 And I'd also recommend

00:33:17.000 if you guys want to see,

00:33:18.680 if you have TERFs,

00:33:19.740 who you look at

00:33:21.120 in their college years,

00:33:22.180 you can find pictures of them

00:33:23.220 in their college years,

00:33:24.260 you will see people

00:33:25.460 who today we would see

00:33:26.420 as extremist progressives.

00:33:28.080 Almost all of them

00:33:28.820 started as extremist progressives.

00:33:30.500 And this is the fate

00:33:31.540 of everyone today

00:33:32.560 who actually believes

00:33:33.680 the progressive message

00:33:34.620 instead of understanding

00:33:35.960 that it's going to

00:33:36.680 constantly change

00:33:37.460 because it doesn't care

00:33:38.180 about truth,

00:33:38.800 it cares about trends,

00:33:39.780 it cares about status hierarchies,

00:33:41.360 and that if you

00:33:42.460 stick with the message

00:33:43.640 that's popular today,

00:33:44.940 you will be treated

00:33:45.840 the same way we treat TERFs.

00:33:47.080 That example here

00:33:47.820 that I almost know

00:33:48.700 people are going to get

00:33:49.440 eviscerated for in the future

00:33:50.520 is people

00:33:53.100 who have had

00:33:54.300 a systemic advantage

00:33:55.100 over other people

00:33:55.760 being born smarter

00:33:56.960 than other people,

00:33:58.100 pretending that IQ

00:33:58.940 is in no way

00:34:00.780 an inborn

00:34:01.400 or hereditary thing.

00:34:03.720 It just,

00:34:04.880 it sounds so unethical

00:34:06.700 when you hear,

00:34:07.440 like,

00:34:08.000 it's like a wealthy person

00:34:09.000 saying wealth

00:34:10.000 did nothing to do

00:34:11.160 is my success.

00:34:12.020 Everyone can be

00:34:12.640 as successful as me

00:34:13.460 and this is an ethical position.

00:34:15.140 It's like,

00:34:15.340 no,

00:34:15.440 it's not an ethical position

00:34:16.600 that is sociopathic

00:34:18.120 and insane

00:34:18.740 and it's very obvious

00:34:19.880 to me

00:34:20.300 that the progressive movement

00:34:21.100 is going to move away

00:34:21.760 from this

00:34:22.180 and everyone today

00:34:23.400 who is out there

00:34:23.900 arguing against IQ

00:34:24.900 being hereditary

00:34:25.720 is going to have

00:34:26.980 a lot of egg

00:34:28.160 on their face

00:34:28.840 in the near future.

00:34:30.000 Right.

00:34:30.180 Now,

00:34:30.360 as you say,

00:34:30.820 it's going to be the new

00:34:32.020 I don't see race.

00:34:34.180 Oh, yeah.

00:34:34.960 Yeah, yeah.

00:34:35.620 Pretending you do not

00:34:36.560 see a systemic advantage

00:34:37.480 you have over other people

00:34:38.700 is not moral

00:34:40.300 and I should point out

00:34:42.220 when she's saying that

00:34:42.660 we're not saying that

00:34:43.320 IQ is in any way

00:34:44.320 tied to ethnic groups.

00:34:45.320 What we are saying

00:34:45.920 is that

00:34:47.060 both statements

00:34:48.140 are just denying

00:34:49.120 your own privilege

00:34:50.200 and pretending

00:34:51.180 that that is a moral position.

00:34:52.480 It is not

00:34:53.360 and you will be treated

00:34:54.900 harshly

00:34:55.920 if you continue

00:34:56.840 to hold this position.

00:34:57.800 Yeah.

00:34:59.640 Love you.

00:35:00.860 I love you too.

Based Camp - November 14, 2023

TERFS： Somehow More Toxic Than the Trans Movement

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