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Based Camp
- August 18, 2023
Testosterone, Status, Tate & Why The Billionaires Got Buff
Episode Stats
Length
35 minutes
Words per Minute
193.95032
Word Count
6,818
Sentence Count
392
Misogynist Sentences
17
Hate Speech Sentences
34
Summary
Summaries are generated with
gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ
.
Transcript
Transcript is generated with
Whisper
(
turbo
).
Misogyny classification is done with
MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny
.
Hate speech classification is done with
facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target
.
00:00:00.000
Like in the early days of tech CEOs becoming super wealthy,
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they would wear pretty disrespectfully informal clothes
00:00:07.540
as a flex because they could.
00:00:09.320
And then I think we saw the height of it
00:00:11.660
with Sam Bankman-Fried.
00:00:13.160
If you look at the billionaires today,
00:00:14.820
they're pretty buff.
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They are very muscular.
00:00:18.760
And the question is,
00:00:19.460
why are individuals doing this?
00:00:22.800
I think we need to take a little history lesson here.
00:00:25.100
If you want to understand why Andrew Tate,
00:00:27.080
like he talks about low T males,
00:00:28.520
except you can tell by looking at a male's face
00:00:32.440
how much testosterone they were exposed to
00:00:35.720
when they were in their developmental stages.
00:00:38.500
When you look at the far left and the far right,
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they both seem to have body dysmorphia.
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Would you like to know more?
00:00:43.700
Hello, Malcolm.
00:00:45.200
Hello, Simone.
00:00:46.260
I am excited to talk to you today.
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So one of the things I've been doing recently,
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because I was like, okay, well, Andrew Tate's,
00:00:52.360
a really big conservative influencer.
00:00:53.760
I wanted to really dive into his longer form content
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to understand the underpinnings of his philosophy.
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And a big part of it is be muscly.
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Look like-
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Is it like he actively advocates for people to lift?
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Oh yeah, yeah.
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And one of the things he points out,
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and this is absolutely true,
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is if you look at the billionaires today,
00:01:13.460
the people in our society
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that are like top of the social hierarchy,
00:01:17.500
presumably,
00:01:17.820
a lot of them,
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whether it's Bezos or Musk recently,
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I don't know if anyone's seen him recently,
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or Zuckerberg,
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they're pretty buff.
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They are very muscular.
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Actually, it's very interesting.
00:01:28.960
So I think many people have this view of Elon Musk
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from this one shot of him on a yacht.
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But if you look at like recent pictures of him,
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he looks Bezos-y.
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That's what I would sort of think.
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Bezos-y.
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Oh no, doesn't he really?
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Okay.
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Okay.
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But the point being is that
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you see this sort of across the billionaire class
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right now, right?
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And so Andrew Tate's taking that as evidence
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that look,
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once you don't have any other needs,
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you realize the importance of muscle.
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And then he'd be like,
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and it was as a man,
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as a man,
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maybe not as a man.
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Of course.
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And throughout history,
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here you can see this.
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The problem is it's throughout history,
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you can't see this.
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What you actually see
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and what is actually going on here,
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and this is a very interesting phenomenon to dissect.
00:02:11.280
So like,
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let's talk about the luxury cars,
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right?
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If you are buying a pointless luxury car
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to signal your status
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or build a self-narrative of
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I am a person with X type of things,
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you need to actually think about
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what you're giving up
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when you spend three times on a car
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what you would otherwise fit.
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Sure.
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It's the same with muscle.
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There is a level that you need to exercise
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to be at optimum physical health.
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And then there's a level
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way beyond that
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where it is about signaling something
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to your environment
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or to yourself
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or changing aspects of your chemistry,
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which we can also talk about.
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And the question is,
00:02:51.820
is why are individuals doing this?
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I think we need to take a little history lesson here
00:02:57.320
to something that my parents pointed out to me
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when I was growing up
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and really helped me contextualize
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physical status symbols.
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Okay.
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So when I was growing up,
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my house,
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they actually had a tanning bed in my house.
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My mom had bought a tanning bed for tanning.
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And my dad,
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he pointed out to me,
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he goes,
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when I was growing up a long time ago,
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you go back a long time ago,
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having a tan was considered very low class.
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The reason why having a tan
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was considered low class back then
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is because the lower classes
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did physical manual labor.
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So they would get tans
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and then the wealthy,
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and you can see this,
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this is why historically,
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you look at the old west
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or something like that,
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the high class women
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would have these parasols all the time.
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No, better than yet.
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Have you seen like even middle ages,
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I think like throughout history,
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riding masks,
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they're scary.
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Like women would wear these.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So throughout most of history,
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tans were considered
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very, very, very low class.
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Well, and even currently,
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keep in mind,
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have you seen like the sort of
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bikini burka face mask things?
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Well, I want to talk about
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how this flipped again.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So then there was a generation
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where tans became common
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because everyone was like,
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okay,
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so first let's talk about
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how tans became high class.
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Well, what you had is a culture
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where the lower class,
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instead of working on farms,
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because all that had been automated,
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they were working at McDonald's
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or whatever, right?
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So the only people
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who could spend all day in the sun
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were rich people.
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Who could go on,
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especially like it became
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to be associated
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with expensive vacations
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where you sat on a beach,
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like it was a sign of luxury.
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So tanning was a sign
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that you could afford
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to literally fly somewhere sunny,
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especially like even
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in the winter months.
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So let's assume
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that like the entire population
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all works inside anyway,
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but you know,
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only the wealthy
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would be able to fly
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to some exotic beach
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and get baked by the sun.
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Yeah.
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And then tanning beds
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became common.
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And on top of tanning beds,
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fake tans became common,
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right?
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Yeah.
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Very inexpensive
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and they got better
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and better and better.
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And then you had this era
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where,
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and this always happens
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when you have
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these class signals,
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right?
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Is that often
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the people who grow up
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in very,
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I guess you could call it
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lower class environments,
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end up overcompensating
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was this classic,
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right?
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So today you'll see this
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in things like jewelry,
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right?
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Where like a rapper
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may just absolutely
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cover themselves in jewelry
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the way you would never
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see anything else doing it
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because they're like,
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oh, this is a sign of wealth.
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So I'm showing how much
00:05:34.120
wealth I have, right?
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And you had this
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with tanning as well
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where they would get
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these really deep,
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almost comical tans
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to other people.
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And then where this
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really began to become
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broadcast and this had
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become a lower class
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or very nouveau rich.
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So there's two sort of
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groups of nouveau rich.
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One group of nouveau rich
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is a group that integrates
00:05:52.040
well with older money society
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and they get considered
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genuinely upper class individuals.
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The other group
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is a group that like,
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I don't know if you
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call them autistic,
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but they don't really get it.
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Like they get off
00:06:03.200
in some way.
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And this is what like
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Jersey Shore.
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So Gen Z have no idea
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what I'm talking about
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when I'm talking about
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like Snooki or Jersey Shore.
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Actually, I discovered
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recently that Jersey Shore
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has a comeback season
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on television right now.
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So maybe they do.
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Okay.
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But anyway,
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so this then advertised
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for the general public,
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oh, now TANS
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are again lower class
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because they are attainable
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to everyone.
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And they sort of
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clueless class,
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which is generally obvious
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to both the high class
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and the low class,
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has gone overboard with them
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as a means of status signaling.
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And now we all know now
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these are low class.
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And so then,
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as to Simone is talking about,
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it has now again become
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a quote unquote
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upper class thing
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to hide your face
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from the sun all the time,
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right?
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Well, and this varies
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across culture
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and also like varies
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depending on what technology shows.
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I mean, obviously right now
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there's a lot of emphasis
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on either getting a fake tan
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or not being exposed
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to the sun at all
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because another huge
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class signifier,
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or at least status signifier,
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is youth,
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especially among women.
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So of course,
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they're trying to hide
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from the sun.
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But I would say
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that what you're describing here
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is an oscillation
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that has happened
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basically as long
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as there has been culture.
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And you see evidence
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of the oscillation
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being dealt with
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in really interesting ways.
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For example,
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there's a really interesting
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course on Wondrium
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slash by the teaching company
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on food history.
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And the lecturer talks
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about how food,
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food trends have oscillated
00:07:28.680
between like extremely complex,
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disgusting,
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really difficult to eat meals.
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Imagine the turdumpkin
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where you've got like a pigeon
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inside a turkey
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inside of whatever,
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a swan.
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And it's just like disgusting
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versus like really simple food.
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And a lot of it depended
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on what people
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of lower means
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were able to do.
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And they always want to copy,
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of course,
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people with higher means.
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And then obviously
00:07:52.340
the people of higher mean
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rebelling and trying to show
00:07:54.900
that they're different
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from people of lower means
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to play their status games.
00:07:58.300
It's like Baroque style, right?
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You get to this stage
00:08:00.720
where it becomes so,
00:08:01.580
what was the style after Baroque?
00:08:02.800
Like ultra Baroque or something?
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Rokoko.
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I mean,
00:08:05.320
like post Baroque
00:08:07.120
was just Baroque
00:08:08.020
plus natural features,
00:08:10.040
sort of like,
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you know,
00:08:10.620
more styles.
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And dating back to like
00:08:11.580
simplism again.
00:08:12.900
Well, yeah.
00:08:13.180
And then we got neoclassical
00:08:15.080
where it went all back
00:08:16.320
to sort of Roman columns
00:08:17.640
and clean lines.
00:08:19.260
You went from like
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really poofy dresses
00:08:20.820
to the empire waist
00:08:22.760
where you basically have
00:08:23.740
a female column of a dress.
00:08:26.140
But then of course,
00:08:26.620
you also have things
00:08:27.200
like sumptuary laws
00:08:28.340
where literally
00:08:29.020
it has been illegal
00:08:30.260
during many like periods
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of history
00:08:32.920
to have shoes
00:08:35.620
of a certain length
00:08:36.640
or to have the clothes
00:08:38.180
of a certain color
00:08:39.080
or to just like
00:08:40.020
own certain objects
00:08:41.260
if you weren't
00:08:41.880
in a certain level
00:08:43.260
of society
00:08:43.940
because there's been
00:08:44.980
so much interest
00:08:46.060
and I think so much
00:08:46.760
like frustration
00:08:47.540
on behalf of like
00:08:48.800
wealthy people
00:08:49.500
who really want to
00:08:50.360
show off their status
00:08:51.480
of like,
00:08:52.700
God,
00:08:53.140
like these people
00:08:53.800
keep copying me.
00:08:54.780
How do I show
00:08:55.360
that I'm special?
00:08:56.280
Like guys,
00:08:56.840
just stop.
00:08:57.540
This is mine.
00:08:58.460
Stop copying me.
00:08:59.720
And this is how like
00:09:00.500
purple became
00:09:01.160
like a wealthy color,
00:09:02.220
right?
00:09:02.400
Because it was
00:09:03.140
really expensive to get
00:09:04.140
and you had to crush shells
00:09:05.200
that were only found
00:09:06.000
in like Phoenicia,
00:09:06.840
right?
00:09:07.020
And so it was
00:09:08.400
one of the major
00:09:09.060
Phoenician industries
00:09:09.960
and then people
00:09:10.960
would outlaw people
00:09:12.060
who weren't in the upper
00:09:13.420
classes from wearing purple
00:09:14.680
once it became easier
00:09:15.620
to copy these colors.
00:09:17.220
And you'll see this
00:09:17.920
throughout history.
00:09:18.800
Another really interesting
00:09:19.880
example here,
00:09:20.640
if you're talking about
00:09:21.120
people who aren't
00:09:21.700
from like the Western
00:09:22.360
cultural tradition
00:09:23.140
is you look at like
00:09:24.800
fat activists
00:09:25.340
and they're like,
00:09:25.840
well,
00:09:26.120
within some cultures
00:09:27.560
being fat
00:09:28.800
was considered high class.
00:09:31.140
And that's absolutely true.
00:09:33.320
100%.
00:09:33.760
But we also have
00:09:35.460
longitudinal studies
00:09:36.480
on those cultures
00:09:37.160
after they acquired
00:09:38.080
wealth and modernity.
00:09:40.260
And it turns out
00:09:41.280
that once there is
00:09:42.460
no longer food scarcity
00:09:43.800
within those cultures,
00:09:45.100
being fat immediately
00:09:46.120
becomes low class.
00:09:48.060
As soon as you introduce
00:09:49.720
them to modern food stuff
00:09:51.420
where if you are eating
00:09:52.660
like the more addictive,
00:09:54.160
cheaper foods,
00:09:54.800
you get better.
00:09:55.760
Those cultures
00:09:56.600
every single time
00:09:58.120
have actually flipped
00:09:59.020
to fat being low class.
00:10:00.300
And I would say
00:10:01.020
there's a really strong
00:10:02.120
correlatory factor
00:10:03.240
among people we know
00:10:05.180
and we know
00:10:05.840
and are friends
00:10:07.320
with people
00:10:07.840
at every level
00:10:08.780
of the income
00:10:09.560
spectrum, right?
00:10:12.640
I would say
00:10:13.940
that a really common factor
00:10:15.380
among those
00:10:16.080
at the highest
00:10:16.720
net worth level
00:10:17.600
like way, way,
00:10:18.460
like insanely high
00:10:19.680
is like the best diet
00:10:21.940
and the most disciplined
00:10:23.100
too.
00:10:23.760
Like levels of disciplines
00:10:25.140
that are like...
00:10:26.040
Chefs that make them
00:10:26.700
like fancy
00:10:27.380
like fish dishes
00:10:28.660
every day.
00:10:29.560
They're much more likely
00:10:30.280
also to just be
00:10:31.340
on very low calorie diets,
00:10:33.040
vegetables only.
00:10:34.140
There's no snack foods.
00:10:36.260
They're very careful
00:10:37.140
about those things.
00:10:38.200
And yeah,
00:10:38.520
it's definitely
00:10:39.260
not even necessarily...
00:10:40.860
Almost certainly
00:10:41.840
it's not about comfort.
00:10:43.120
Let's bring it back
00:10:43.740
to muscles
00:10:44.160
because I think
00:10:44.580
that's really interesting
00:10:45.280
and I'm thinking
00:10:45.800
about ancient
00:10:47.120
Greek and Roman statues.
00:10:48.880
People would be like,
00:10:49.760
yeah, see,
00:10:50.220
muscles have always
00:10:51.020
been a sign of status,
00:10:51.920
but I actually think
00:10:53.160
that muscles
00:10:53.600
were more a sign
00:10:54.380
of beauty
00:10:55.200
than they were really
00:10:56.760
a sign of status.
00:10:58.360
And when you look
00:10:58.880
at these statues
00:10:59.720
of famous leaders,
00:11:01.260
they are not
00:11:02.640
terribly muscular.
00:11:04.160
They are just
00:11:05.520
sort of like whatever.
00:11:07.340
You would have
00:11:07.780
muscular servants.
00:11:09.220
Yes.
00:11:09.300
And this is true
00:11:10.120
in a lot of these periods.
00:11:11.220
Yeah.
00:11:11.720
Yeah.
00:11:11.880
So why is muscle
00:11:13.540
big today?
00:11:15.260
And the answer is
00:11:16.840
because it is
00:11:17.560
the single one,
00:11:19.460
we haven't really found
00:11:20.820
a good way
00:11:21.200
to fake muscle yet.
00:11:22.660
Steroids are now
00:11:23.420
getting big,
00:11:23.980
so I expect this trend
00:11:24.840
to reverse,
00:11:25.460
so we'll talk about
00:11:26.040
that in a second.
00:11:27.200
But it is a thing
00:11:29.060
that assuming
00:11:30.160
no steroids
00:11:30.780
was actually pretty hard
00:11:32.100
for wealthy people
00:11:32.980
to fake,
00:11:34.080
hard for anyone
00:11:34.820
to fake to an extent,
00:11:36.220
and it required
00:11:36.840
an enormous time investment.
00:11:39.300
Building big muscles
00:11:40.840
as a man
00:11:41.980
shows there are
00:11:43.500
a certain number
00:11:44.100
of hours every day
00:11:44.820
to look like Jeff Bezos,
00:11:46.160
right,
00:11:46.920
that you don't need
00:11:47.760
to work.
00:11:49.000
And that is how
00:11:50.120
it became the class
00:11:51.000
status signal
00:11:51.560
of our generation.
00:11:52.620
The reason why
00:11:53.640
it will fall
00:11:54.340
as a class status signal
00:11:55.480
is everyone
00:11:56.400
basically found out,
00:11:57.700
okay,
00:11:58.120
like exogenous steroids,
00:12:00.520
so men generate
00:12:01.720
more of these
00:12:02.420
than women,
00:12:03.040
like endogenous steroids,
00:12:04.060
right,
00:12:04.240
more than women,
00:12:04.780
and that's why
00:12:05.100
it's easier for them
00:12:05.720
to gain muscle mass
00:12:06.500
than women.
00:12:06.860
That's why,
00:12:07.140
like on average,
00:12:07.640
men are like 50%
00:12:08.400
stronger than women
00:12:09.040
in most drinks tests.
00:12:10.320
But you can take
00:12:11.040
these external,
00:12:11.780
you can increase
00:12:13.400
your amount of steroids,
00:12:14.400
right?
00:12:15.280
Historically,
00:12:15.640
when we were growing up,
00:12:16.640
there was a lot
00:12:17.120
of these campaigns
00:12:17.900
meant to convince people
00:12:18.840
that like this caused
00:12:19.720
roid rage
00:12:20.500
and all sorts
00:12:21.100
of other negative effects.
00:12:22.620
The truth is,
00:12:23.260
yes,
00:12:23.500
it does shrink
00:12:24.300
the size of your
00:12:24.880
testicles
00:12:25.540
and some other things,
00:12:26.900
but generally,
00:12:27.580
the negative effects
00:12:28.220
really aren't that big
00:12:29.200
and there isn't any proof
00:12:30.240
that it causes
00:12:30.700
roid rage
00:12:31.300
the last I looked
00:12:32.620
into the research
00:12:33.160
on this.
00:12:33.820
So it's just really
00:12:35.060
not that bad
00:12:36.180
to take a-
00:12:36.620
It's just small balls.
00:12:37.800
It's small balls.
00:12:38.960
Well,
00:12:39.520
if the alternative
00:12:40.940
is class status signaling
00:12:42.220
and working out
00:12:43.040
three less hours a day,
00:12:44.540
which it really is,
00:12:45.940
like it dramatically
00:12:46.860
lowers the amount
00:12:47.520
you need to work out.
00:12:48.280
Well,
00:12:48.460
and my understanding too
00:12:49.220
is I've never really
00:12:50.120
heard about women
00:12:50.980
caring about ball size
00:12:52.740
and it doesn't affect
00:12:53.420
penis size,
00:12:54.060
does it?
00:12:55.100
No,
00:12:55.500
not as far as I know.
00:12:56.760
Yeah,
00:12:57.140
I guess no one really cares.
00:12:58.180
I've never been like,
00:12:58.800
oh my God,
00:12:59.220
have you seen how small?
00:13:00.560
a lot of people,
00:13:01.360
they don't care
00:13:01.840
about their kids,
00:13:02.420
right?
00:13:04.460
No,
00:13:04.700
so I guess the point
00:13:06.260
I'm making is
00:13:07.940
there was this campaign
00:13:09.520
that was run
00:13:10.380
and are used
00:13:11.400
to convince everyone
00:13:12.200
that steroids
00:13:12.740
are like this really scary thing
00:13:14.400
and the truth is
00:13:15.500
they're just not that scary
00:13:17.000
and because the ultra-wealthy
00:13:19.100
in our society
00:13:19.600
don't trust science,
00:13:20.360
I can tell you this,
00:13:21.040
we know the ultra-wealthy
00:13:22.000
in our society,
00:13:22.880
they do not trust science.
00:13:24.360
They do their own research
00:13:25.480
on everything.
00:13:26.060
They have their own researchers
00:13:26.900
working on everything
00:13:27.720
and they'll see how-
00:13:28.420
Oh, that's something
00:13:28.600
that's happening
00:13:29.060
regardless of level
00:13:30.720
of wealth these days,
00:13:31.560
I think.
00:13:32.080
Oh yeah,
00:13:32.360
well,
00:13:32.520
no,
00:13:32.620
everyone,
00:13:32.980
but I'm just saying
00:13:33.620
I think there's this perception
00:13:35.060
among the general population
00:13:36.440
that like the wealthy
00:13:37.300
still trust science
00:13:38.140
that do not.
00:13:39.060
No.
00:13:39.540
Not at all.
00:13:40.200
So they do their own research
00:13:41.240
on this stuff
00:13:41.800
and they'll be like,
00:13:42.260
okay,
00:13:42.480
it's not that bad.
00:13:43.200
So it's become really common
00:13:44.560
for them to use
00:13:45.400
exogenous steroids
00:13:46.420
sort of across groups,
00:13:49.820
you know,
00:13:50.640
liberty.
00:13:50.880
Do you think that
00:13:51.600
the problem here
00:13:53.220
is you've basically got
00:13:55.420
like what the actual
00:13:57.200
billionaires are doing
00:13:58.420
is they're putting
00:13:59.120
in the work,
00:13:59.760
they're doing the training,
00:14:00.920
like they're putting
00:14:01.400
in the time
00:14:01.920
because that's
00:14:02.940
like a flex
00:14:04.100
literally.
00:14:05.600
Well,
00:14:05.860
it was a flex
00:14:06.780
but the problem is
00:14:07.940
it's we're going to,
00:14:08.320
yeah,
00:14:08.520
we're going to have soon.
00:14:09.700
We have a bunch of people
00:14:10.380
who are cheating
00:14:10.960
by getting steroids
00:14:12.720
and it's funny,
00:14:13.740
like we've gotten
00:14:14.500
a lot of flack
00:14:15.120
for implying
00:14:15.880
that people
00:14:16.560
who are into weightlifting
00:14:18.120
are steroid users
00:14:20.540
but I've brought it up
00:14:21.760
with a bunch of people
00:14:22.780
and they're like,
00:14:24.440
oh yeah,
00:14:25.080
like at this gym,
00:14:26.400
yeah,
00:14:26.700
like huge proportion
00:14:27.640
and I'm just-
00:14:28.260
I honestly am perplexed.
00:14:30.140
When weightlifting people
00:14:31.260
come to us
00:14:31.740
and they're like,
00:14:32.280
how dare you?
00:14:33.120
I'm like,
00:14:33.860
are you really not
00:14:34.740
in the weightlifting community?
00:14:36.200
Do you really not know
00:14:37.680
how common it is?
00:14:39.120
And I think that
00:14:39.780
the only people
00:14:40.500
who really do that
00:14:41.560
are the people
00:14:42.080
who aspire
00:14:42.800
to the social status
00:14:43.860
of weightlifters
00:14:44.520
but aren't actually
00:14:45.260
in those communities
00:14:46.040
because everyone
00:14:47.020
we know in those communities
00:14:47.980
is like,
00:14:48.280
oh yeah,
00:14:48.440
yeah,
00:14:48.540
yeah,
00:14:48.640
everyone's on
00:14:49.100
acceptance.
00:14:50.680
It's incredibly common
00:14:52.240
because why?
00:14:53.900
It's very little downside
00:14:55.260
and it literally shaves
00:14:56.640
the-
00:14:57.220
who has time
00:14:59.600
to work out
00:15:00.080
four or three hours
00:15:01.120
a day.
00:15:02.140
Yeah.
00:15:02.520
Right?
00:15:03.680
Yeah,
00:15:03.920
some people do.
00:15:05.100
I guess if you're
00:15:05.600
extremely wealthy
00:15:06.620
and you have
00:15:08.120
like this
00:15:08.720
actual
00:15:09.520
like personal aesthetics
00:15:10.920
around I don't use
00:15:11.800
exogenous steroids
00:15:12.800
but if you can be-
00:15:14.940
then you can be out-competed.
00:15:15.880
Suppose I'm a social media
00:15:16.840
influencer,
00:15:17.380
right?
00:15:17.760
And one of them
00:15:18.300
is actually
00:15:19.040
working out
00:15:20.560
to get the muscles
00:15:21.200
and the other one
00:15:22.100
is cheating
00:15:22.480
to get the muscles
00:15:23.180
and then spending
00:15:23.700
the rest of the time
00:15:24.400
editing their videos,
00:15:25.840
working on ads.
00:15:26.420
spending more time posting,
00:15:27.860
yeah,
00:15:27.980
who's going to do better?
00:15:28.920
They're always out-competing.
00:15:30.120
This is why
00:15:30.620
the liver king
00:15:31.180
was the liver king.
00:15:32.020
10,000,
00:15:32.760
was it $10,000 a day
00:15:34.220
or something?
00:15:34.540
It was over 10,000.
00:15:36.620
Yeah,
00:15:36.940
that was-
00:15:37.360
10,000 on something.
00:15:38.620
But he was killing it.
00:15:39.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:40.140
And he was killing it.
00:15:40.880
He was killing it, right?
00:15:42.340
Because he had the time,
00:15:43.100
I guess.
00:15:44.440
But so for a lot of this
00:15:45.940
there's this belief
00:15:46.880
that then they'll say,
00:15:47.820
well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:15:49.120
Being muscly
00:15:49.840
has always been aesthetically manly
00:15:51.520
and it's like,
00:15:52.700
you are not a nerd
00:15:54.500
about history of fashion.
00:15:57.020
I am.
00:15:58.060
If you look historically,
00:15:59.560
yes,
00:16:00.440
a lot of the times in men,
00:16:02.120
some muscles,
00:16:03.320
because muscles have always
00:16:04.680
been gender dimorphic,
00:16:05.760
okay?
00:16:06.120
Yeah.
00:16:06.280
So men always had more muscles
00:16:07.580
than women
00:16:07.900
in the same way that like
00:16:08.640
women have breasts
00:16:09.260
and like big breasts
00:16:09.920
would show that you're more female,
00:16:11.520
right?
00:16:11.840
Like gender dimorphism there,
00:16:13.420
right?
00:16:13.700
Yeah, more muscles,
00:16:14.220
more male.
00:16:14.660
I get it.
00:16:14.920
But it's not the muscle groups
00:16:16.440
that we care about today.
00:16:17.820
You look at today,
00:16:18.800
it's like muscle, right?
00:16:20.820
Historically,
00:16:21.180
you look at like medieval England,
00:16:22.680
it's ankles.
00:16:24.280
It's all about ankles.
00:16:24.940
Oh, yeah,
00:16:25.120
no, it's the calf,
00:16:26.640
right?
00:16:26.860
That's the lower leg.
00:16:28.100
The calf muscle.
00:16:28.500
How big is this calf muscle?
00:16:30.040
Well, yeah,
00:16:30.600
in the French court
00:16:33.180
of Louis XIV,
00:16:34.420
a lot of it also came down
00:16:35.660
to, yeah,
00:16:36.020
like how your calf muscle
00:16:37.580
looked with your little tights on
00:16:39.020
and especially how you're,
00:16:40.260
essentially what became
00:16:41.120
your ballet turnout,
00:16:42.120
like when you turned out
00:16:43.240
your leg a little bit,
00:16:43.980
like how,
00:16:44.520
how basically how flexible it was
00:16:46.140
and how good your muscles looked
00:16:47.260
and your little tights.
00:16:49.260
And well,
00:16:49.500
I mean,
00:16:49.680
you look at the clothing.
00:16:50.300
Because that's gender dimorphic.
00:16:51.380
So men would have that
00:16:52.120
more than women.
00:16:52.780
So of course they focused on that,
00:16:54.040
but it wasn't the same muscle groups
00:16:55.580
we're focused on today.
00:16:56.720
Yeah.
00:16:57.060
And when you look at the clothing
00:16:58.120
of men who were considered
00:16:59.140
very dominant,
00:17:00.320
very high class
00:17:01.420
and very much like George Washington,
00:17:03.300
you can go to the Smithsonian Museum
00:17:05.000
of National History.
00:17:06.260
You can go and look
00:17:07.340
at one of his uniforms
00:17:08.240
and you will see
00:17:09.340
that the man was
00:17:10.100
freaking anorexic.
00:17:11.820
I could not fit into his...
00:17:14.620
Your ancestor, by the way,
00:17:16.480
George Washington.
00:17:17.020
My great, great, great something uncle.
00:17:18.500
Yes.
00:17:18.820
But I could not fit into his,
00:17:20.500
his uniform.
00:17:21.240
He was a thin man
00:17:22.800
and he was considered
00:17:23.960
extremely dominant.
00:17:24.880
I mean,
00:17:25.000
they wanted to make him king.
00:17:26.120
Yeah, I totally agree.
00:17:27.980
And even in the times
00:17:29.080
of ancient Rome
00:17:29.940
where I think there was all this,
00:17:31.020
definitely people celebrated
00:17:32.520
the male form
00:17:33.860
and the muscular male form,
00:17:35.400
but they were gladiators.
00:17:36.820
They were workers.
00:17:37.440
Like you,
00:17:37.880
you appreciated them,
00:17:39.100
but like the leaders,
00:17:40.280
the dominant in society.
00:17:41.480
This is actually true
00:17:42.380
about the 1950s.
00:17:43.460
So if you go back
00:17:44.140
at the 1950s,
00:17:45.020
you go back
00:17:45.460
back to this era
00:17:46.640
that a lot of people...
00:17:47.700
Like the raw egg nationalist,
00:17:49.200
the bronze egg proverb ideal.
00:17:51.400
Now,
00:17:51.580
what we always say
00:17:52.160
about this 1950s aesthetic
00:17:53.380
is that it was actually
00:17:54.440
created by Hollywood
00:17:55.220
at the time
00:17:55.740
and should not be looked upon
00:17:56.900
as like a standard
00:17:57.880
of what society
00:17:58.560
was actually like at the time
00:17:59.600
and they didn't care
00:18:00.160
about people then
00:18:00.780
any more than they say.
00:18:02.540
But,
00:18:03.520
having a lot of muscle
00:18:05.160
was considered low class
00:18:06.160
because it was,
00:18:07.580
it was a sign
00:18:08.560
of being a manual laborer.
00:18:09.680
Now,
00:18:09.820
we don't really have
00:18:10.580
manual laborers
00:18:11.460
to like,
00:18:12.600
there's not a lot of them.
00:18:14.000
If you're living in a city,
00:18:15.120
if you're living
00:18:15.600
in any of the centers
00:18:16.660
of quote unquote
00:18:17.840
culture within our society today,
00:18:19.400
you're not going
00:18:19.920
to see manual laborers
00:18:20.880
that they assume
00:18:21.460
if you have muscle,
00:18:22.580
it must mean
00:18:22.860
you have a lot of free time
00:18:23.640
during the day.
00:18:24.340
But in the 1950s,
00:18:25.300
that wasn't the case.
00:18:26.120
If you saw somebody
00:18:26.740
that's really muscular,
00:18:27.860
you'd be like,
00:18:28.280
oh, you're a dock worker.
00:18:30.040
Oh, you're Popeye, right?
00:18:31.720
Then this was not like,
00:18:32.980
no, no, no,
00:18:33.380
it's true.
00:18:34.240
It's true.
00:18:34.740
Muscles were seen actively
00:18:36.180
as a sign
00:18:37.020
of being uneducated
00:18:38.040
and low class
00:18:38.660
and that is only
00:18:39.400
just now beginning
00:18:40.740
to trend.
00:18:41.080
In fact,
00:18:41.500
when you look
00:18:42.080
at cartoon tropes,
00:18:43.140
which I think
00:18:43.580
are interesting indicators
00:18:45.200
that the muscular one
00:18:46.860
is the big stupid one,
00:18:48.860
the grunt,
00:18:49.680
which is sort of interesting.
00:18:51.700
I mean,
00:18:51.960
like there's Superman,
00:18:52.900
I guess,
00:18:53.420
you know,
00:18:53.700
who's like,
00:18:55.020
you know,
00:18:55.400
pretty muscular.
00:18:56.260
Oh, no,
00:18:56.400
but Superman,
00:18:57.260
when he's in human world,
00:18:58.540
he doesn't look muscular.
00:18:59.740
Yeah, that's true.
00:19:00.980
Yeah,
00:19:01.360
it's just when he throws
00:19:02.400
on the spandex.
00:19:03.200
He signals class
00:19:04.300
his big thick glasses.
00:19:06.800
It's his disguise.
00:19:07.900
I don't know.
00:19:08.380
Superman's probably
00:19:09.180
not the best example.
00:19:11.040
Okay, okay.
00:19:11.920
If you want to understand
00:19:13.140
why Andrew Tate
00:19:13.920
feels he needs
00:19:14.480
to have the body
00:19:15.100
he has versus
00:19:16.040
the reason why
00:19:16.780
I don't care about that,
00:19:18.340
I'd say,
00:19:18.940
look at our faces.
00:19:22.280
Oh, no,
00:19:22.580
what does his face
00:19:23.200
look like?
00:19:23.780
Oh, no.
00:19:24.420
Can he get work done?
00:19:25.400
I mean,
00:19:25.560
he could just get
00:19:26.140
jaw implants.
00:19:27.720
I think he has,
00:19:28.880
I don't have too much
00:19:29.640
pride for that.
00:19:31.320
Yeah,
00:19:31.540
I guess people would notice
00:19:32.440
if he got jaw implants.
00:19:33.760
Yeah.
00:19:34.300
I don't mean to like
00:19:35.280
insult somebody else's look.
00:19:36.980
You think it's compensatory
00:19:38.340
because he doesn't have
00:19:39.400
He does not have
00:19:40.780
a masculine jaw.
00:19:41.860
A highly masculinized face.
00:19:43.220
It is not a face
00:19:44.040
that was formed
00:19:44.700
in the presence
00:19:45.260
of testosterone.
00:19:46.400
It is a face
00:19:46.960
that was formed
00:19:47.620
actually in the absence
00:19:49.380
of testosterone.
00:19:50.120
He really looks like
00:19:51.320
if you imagined him
00:19:52.180
with a weaker body,
00:19:53.940
assuming he's taking
00:19:54.740
exogenous steroids
00:19:55.540
or anything,
00:19:56.040
you'd be like,
00:19:56.480
this is the face
00:19:57.920
of somebody who grew up
00:19:58.880
without any testosterone
00:19:59.760
in their bloodstream.
00:20:01.320
That's interesting.
00:20:02.200
I'm looking up.
00:20:03.240
Oh, interesting.
00:20:04.460
You see what I mean?
00:20:04.980
Maybe he went for the beard
00:20:06.180
to emphasize his jaw.
00:20:07.540
Well, I'm actually surprised
00:20:08.360
he doesn't have a beard.
00:20:09.260
If I had a...
00:20:09.700
In many of the photos,
00:20:11.240
I'm just looking,
00:20:12.100
I just Googled his name
00:20:13.100
and I'm looking at photos.
00:20:14.860
It looks like maybe
00:20:15.900
he has in many of these
00:20:17.720
various lengths
00:20:18.460
of beard going
00:20:19.180
to accentuate his jaw.
00:20:21.080
Anyway,
00:20:21.380
no, that's interesting.
00:20:22.180
Yeah, I mean,
00:20:22.840
so also be careful.
00:20:23.740
I guess that's another
00:20:24.300
good lesson in terms
00:20:25.160
of how to successfully
00:20:26.360
signal this kind of thing.
00:20:27.960
If you want to play the game
00:20:29.540
and you want to,
00:20:30.100
I don't know,
00:20:31.520
show off
00:20:32.220
because you don't find
00:20:33.680
people as disgusting
00:20:34.480
as we do,
00:20:35.820
you'd probably not do anything
00:20:37.380
that comes across
00:20:38.160
as compensatory.
00:20:39.360
Well, you can see
00:20:40.120
from a male,
00:20:40.860
like he talks about
00:20:41.620
low-T males,
00:20:42.480
except you can tell
00:20:43.880
by looking at a male's face
00:20:46.220
how much testosterone
00:20:47.920
they were exposed to
00:20:49.520
when they were
00:20:50.320
in their developmental stages.
00:20:52.300
It is very easy
00:20:53.740
if you have any
00:20:54.440
sort of biological training,
00:20:57.440
but you have either
00:20:58.140
gracile features
00:20:59.520
or you have robust features.
00:21:01.320
But, you know,
00:21:01.700
I would say that
00:21:02.280
my heart goes out
00:21:03.240
to everyone who has
00:21:04.240
these types of deformities.
00:21:05.680
Yeah, it's not there.
00:21:06.080
I know, for example,
00:21:06.820
like, you know,
00:21:07.300
many people don't choose
00:21:08.360
partners that show
00:21:09.220
any sign of deformity
00:21:10.500
or whatever
00:21:10.940
and facial symmetry
00:21:12.080
is a big part of that
00:21:12.900
and I have a decidedly
00:21:14.520
asymmetric face
00:21:16.020
where this part of my jaw
00:21:17.360
is way bigger
00:21:18.080
than this part,
00:21:19.120
meaning I was either
00:21:19.880
exposed to stress
00:21:21.580
or I have some kind
00:21:22.620
of deficiency.
00:21:23.160
That's not true.
00:21:23.660
Our kids have the same thing.
00:21:24.840
It's genetic.
00:21:25.480
I can't tell.
00:21:26.680
Okay, so some weird
00:21:27.400
genetic thing,
00:21:28.180
but I mean,
00:21:28.460
that still is a sign
00:21:29.200
of deficiency.
00:21:29.880
So I mean,
00:21:30.220
my heart goes out
00:21:31.020
to people who are
00:21:32.540
fucked up in the face
00:21:33.480
like me,
00:21:34.060
who are deformed.
00:21:35.340
I'm not saying
00:21:36.080
he's deformed,
00:21:36.940
but I'm just saying
00:21:37.720
like, you know,
00:21:39.100
like, I'm here for you.
00:21:41.140
They can't all have
00:21:42.080
the southern gentleman face.
00:21:43.800
I'm sorry.
00:21:44.660
Yeah.
00:21:45.500
I don't know.
00:21:46.260
Like, I still,
00:21:48.560
I still need the internet
00:21:49.660
to explain what,
00:21:51.120
like,
00:21:51.400
why they keep
00:21:53.900
saying you're so late.
00:21:56.260
I think it's because
00:21:58.180
of the way I talk
00:21:59.500
and act.
00:22:00.560
Like, you've even said
00:22:01.280
you act somewhat effeminently
00:22:02.820
in videos sometimes
00:22:03.780
because you just don't care.
00:22:05.280
Like, I have.
00:22:05.680
You literally don't give a shit.
00:22:06.920
No, but I think, yeah.
00:22:07.800
I mean, maybe that's why
00:22:08.760
I find it so confusing
00:22:09.820
that people find it
00:22:10.660
to be soy
00:22:11.080
because like,
00:22:12.220
being willing to do.
00:22:13.240
Well, because people
00:22:14.780
don't know.
00:22:15.320
They don't know
00:22:15.800
what it looks like
00:22:16.520
to have no anxiety
00:22:17.600
around gender presentation.
00:22:19.000
I think a lot of the right,
00:22:20.540
one of the things we joke about
00:22:21.420
and we'll probably do
00:22:21.880
a full video on this
00:22:22.600
is it's funny
00:22:23.220
that when you look
00:22:24.080
at the far left
00:22:24.680
and the far right,
00:22:25.380
they both seem
00:22:26.000
to have body dysmorphia.
00:22:27.500
They both have
00:22:28.700
unrealistic body expectations
00:22:30.300
for themselves
00:22:30.820
and unrealistic self-images
00:22:32.160
around their body image
00:22:33.480
as it exists right now.
00:22:35.300
I mean, I think a part
00:22:35.860
of that is
00:22:36.340
is because
00:22:36.800
we don't have
00:22:38.060
many role models
00:22:38.780
in our society today
00:22:40.080
that genuinely
00:22:41.740
do not care
00:22:43.680
if people are like,
00:22:44.380
oh, you're acting
00:22:44.820
kind of femme.
00:22:45.620
You're acting kind of
00:22:46.340
whatever.
00:22:47.840
I don't care.
00:22:49.540
I have a wife
00:22:50.720
and kids.
00:22:52.140
Like,
00:22:52.380
who am I?
00:22:54.760
Who am I performing for?
00:22:57.620
Yeah.
00:22:58.240
But here's
00:22:59.160
post-muscle world.
00:23:00.160
What is what is the next?
00:23:01.860
Call it.
00:23:02.460
I want to see.
00:23:02.920
I don't know what the next is,
00:23:03.700
but I really want to emphasize
00:23:04.700
to our viewers, right?
00:23:06.800
Is when you think about
00:23:08.340
the cost you spend
00:23:10.340
on the things in your life
00:23:11.360
that signal
00:23:12.000
self-narrative to yourself,
00:23:13.460
I'm a big, strong person.
00:23:14.540
I'm a meaningful person.
00:23:15.680
I'm a cool guy.
00:23:17.120
Or they signal
00:23:18.140
to your community,
00:23:19.720
genuinely weigh that cost.
00:23:21.980
How many hours a day
00:23:22.900
are you spending on this?
00:23:25.000
What are you getting out of it?
00:23:26.120
When you buy
00:23:26.880
a Ferrari
00:23:28.080
versus me,
00:23:29.960
a used Mazda
00:23:31.620
or something like that,
00:23:33.080
or me.
00:23:33.880
Your 2010 Mazda
00:23:34.920
is great.
00:23:35.700
Our most recent car
00:23:37.380
is used Ford.
00:23:38.560
Yeah.
00:23:38.980
Why?
00:23:39.560
Why are you spending
00:23:40.740
all of this extra time
00:23:42.160
or money?
00:23:42.880
Is it really,
00:23:44.120
other than this sort of
00:23:44.940
immediate dopamine hit
00:23:46.200
you get when you spend the money
00:23:47.380
and you show it off to people,
00:23:48.640
which,
00:23:49.160
let's be honest,
00:23:50.120
in today's world,
00:23:51.140
how many people
00:23:51.660
do you really have
00:23:52.320
to show it off to?
00:23:53.560
Not that many, okay?
00:23:55.600
It just doesn't matter
00:23:57.640
that much anymore.
00:23:58.920
Are you really gaining
00:24:00.600
something of commensurate?
00:24:02.240
I kind of disagree.
00:24:03.640
So I disagree
00:24:04.240
because I think right now
00:24:05.300
people have a bigger audience
00:24:06.600
than ever before
00:24:07.460
in some ways.
00:24:08.960
They're signaling their sin.
00:24:11.220
They're signaling
00:24:12.140
how easy it was
00:24:15.600
to corrupt
00:24:16.660
the things
00:24:17.820
that they were trying
00:24:18.500
to achieve
00:24:19.100
with their life
00:24:20.040
with vanity.
00:24:21.620
I don't know.
00:24:22.040
Anyway,
00:24:22.340
what I'm seeing
00:24:23.300
is when I look
00:24:24.800
at people younger than us
00:24:25.920
or I even just look
00:24:26.700
at people tiny bit
00:24:27.700
younger than us
00:24:28.400
and I see they post
00:24:29.360
something on social media,
00:24:30.340
the number of likes they get.
00:24:32.020
I'm like,
00:24:32.340
oh my God,
00:24:33.140
I don't like,
00:24:33.780
whoa, man,
00:24:34.400
are you famous?
00:24:35.360
No,
00:24:35.640
like they just,
00:24:36.520
their lives are online.
00:24:38.000
I think that the next place
00:24:39.900
and way that people
00:24:41.360
are going to signal status
00:24:43.700
and I'm using a heuristic here
00:24:45.660
of what is going to be hard
00:24:46.980
to legitimately do
00:24:48.160
unless you're actually wealthy
00:24:49.900
and you actually have time.
00:24:51.480
Like these are the two
00:24:52.480
sort of limiting factors
00:24:53.460
right now.
00:24:54.660
So what I think
00:24:55.560
and I'll hear your guests
00:24:56.540
after this
00:24:56.940
because I've primed you
00:24:57.680
with my perfect formula
00:24:59.520
is I think that
00:25:01.000
the ultimate way
00:25:02.100
people are going to signal status
00:25:03.140
is by looking in person
00:25:04.660
as good as they do online
00:25:06.600
because right now
00:25:07.460
a lot of people
00:25:07.940
are cheating online
00:25:08.960
with filters
00:25:09.500
and that's obviously
00:25:10.600
super easy to do
00:25:11.380
and everyone's getting
00:25:11.960
super normalized to it
00:25:13.200
and then only those
00:25:14.920
who are able to pay
00:25:15.860
for the plastic surgery
00:25:16.780
that makes them look
00:25:17.820
like their filtered version
00:25:18.840
of themselves,
00:25:19.440
only the people
00:25:20.040
who are able
00:25:20.560
to keep themselves
00:25:21.240
healthy enough
00:25:22.040
to not need
00:25:23.160
all the filters
00:25:24.040
and actually just look
00:25:25.120
like they do
00:25:25.620
both online and off
00:25:26.620
are going to be the ones
00:25:27.880
to be able to maintain
00:25:29.080
that divide
00:25:30.760
and it's going to be
00:25:31.700
a huge sign
00:25:32.600
of like genuine resource
00:25:34.640
or class or leisure.
00:25:36.480
What do you think?
00:25:37.540
I think you're right.
00:25:38.360
I think the other thing is
00:25:39.760
is a lot of people
00:25:40.720
would say followers
00:25:41.300
but not exactly followers
00:25:42.240
because those will be
00:25:43.000
easy to fake.
00:25:44.160
It is high status followers.
00:25:48.740
How many high status
00:25:50.780
people follow you
00:25:51.840
and interact with you
00:25:53.540
and talk about you?
00:25:54.720
Oh, so that's interesting
00:25:56.080
because not every platform
00:25:57.540
allows you to see
00:25:58.740
who follow you.
00:26:00.320
Yeah, so Twitter converts
00:26:02.780
very, very poorly.
00:26:04.120
X, whatever we want
00:26:05.780
to call it these days.
00:26:06.820
X converts very poorly.
00:26:08.280
It does not convert
00:26:08.920
to book sales.
00:26:09.640
It does not convert
00:26:10.280
to people coming
00:26:11.000
to our YouTube.
00:26:11.780
It does not convert
00:26:12.380
to sub-check followers.
00:26:12.860
But it's where people
00:26:13.460
can show off
00:26:14.180
who follows them.
00:26:15.400
But it's very good
00:26:16.060
at showing off
00:26:16.580
who follows you
00:26:17.680
and who respects your opinion.
00:26:19.360
So like we don't have
00:26:20.360
a lot of followers
00:26:21.000
on Twitter.
00:26:21.560
We've got like 5,000
00:26:22.460
or something.
00:26:23.300
But we have a lot
00:26:24.120
of really high status followers
00:26:26.300
which signals
00:26:27.540
people who can invite us
00:26:29.380
to parties and stuff, right?
00:26:31.860
Hmm.
00:26:32.480
I think that's a good one.
00:26:33.680
Yeah.
00:26:34.160
So we'll see.
00:26:35.240
Yeah, but again,
00:26:35.940
it has to be a thing
00:26:37.000
that, yeah,
00:26:38.300
that only those
00:26:40.320
with wealth
00:26:41.540
or status
00:26:43.300
or leisure
00:26:43.940
will be able to achieve.
00:26:45.220
And I think that those
00:26:45.820
are really the things.
00:26:46.860
It's still really expensive
00:26:48.080
to get plastic surgery
00:26:49.080
or to genuinely look
00:26:50.140
as good as you can
00:26:51.020
look online.
00:26:51.680
And it's only going
00:26:52.520
to get worse.
00:26:53.720
And it's genuinely
00:26:54.460
hard to get some money.
00:26:55.520
She's talking about
00:26:56.080
how important muscle is
00:26:57.100
as like a woman
00:26:57.600
in the 90s
00:26:58.120
talking about
00:26:58.500
how great a tan is.
00:27:00.320
Don't you know
00:27:01.820
that it's sitting
00:27:02.780
in the sun,
00:27:03.460
you're capturing
00:27:04.000
the rays of the earth
00:27:05.380
and exposing
00:27:06.500
your true femininity
00:27:07.920
and that's why
00:27:08.860
I do it nude
00:27:09.580
so that I capture
00:27:11.800
all of this
00:27:12.660
earth energy
00:27:14.100
and I'm genuinely
00:27:15.300
at one with my...
00:27:16.580
Hold on,
00:27:16.780
but do you know
00:27:17.720
about the whole
00:27:18.980
like men exposing
00:27:20.240
their balls
00:27:20.820
to the sun thing
00:27:21.460
going on right now?
00:27:22.140
There's like a current
00:27:22.760
trend of this.
00:27:23.580
I've heard it.
00:27:24.260
It's dumb as hell.
00:27:25.380
I know,
00:27:25.620
but I'm just saying
00:27:26.100
there's a lot of other
00:27:26.980
really weird stuff
00:27:27.900
that's going on
00:27:28.620
with like sun exposure.
00:27:29.740
You can't get anyone
00:27:29.980
to do dumb stuff.
00:27:30.940
The placebo effect
00:27:31.760
is really strong.
00:27:33.520
But I mean also
00:27:34.360
like tans help you
00:27:35.460
more easily conceal
00:27:36.460
blemishes
00:27:36.940
and other things like that.
00:27:37.940
I mean there's a lot
00:27:38.640
of reasons why people
00:27:39.540
like tans that don't
00:27:40.480
necessarily have to do
00:27:41.520
with social class,
00:27:42.540
but it is a good example
00:27:44.580
in how it oscillates.
00:27:45.760
And it is one of those
00:27:46.680
limiting factor things,
00:27:47.680
but I think that's the formula
00:27:48.700
is this something
00:27:50.200
that you can only get
00:27:51.760
because of status
00:27:52.480
or wealth
00:27:53.000
or a lot of leisure time,
00:27:54.260
which you know,
00:27:54.860
only those with resources.
00:27:56.700
Well,
00:27:57.000
and I also think
00:27:57.600
that the people,
00:27:59.020
we know a lot of wealthy people
00:28:00.520
from a lot of groups,
00:28:02.220
the ones who have been able
00:28:03.520
to resist this muscle trend
00:28:04.900
are also the ones
00:28:06.260
who don't own things
00:28:07.160
like fancy cars.
00:28:09.320
Yeah.
00:28:10.260
It's specifically susceptible
00:28:13.220
to the people
00:28:13.940
who need to show off
00:28:14.940
all the hot women
00:28:15.700
their whiz
00:28:16.240
and all their fancy cars.
00:28:17.880
And to a certain extent,
00:28:18.800
it exposes new money,
00:28:20.980
right?
00:28:21.480
Because-
00:28:22.360
Well, it wasn't new money,
00:28:23.100
but a level of insecurity,
00:28:24.360
a level of I earned money
00:28:25.800
just so I could signal
00:28:26.700
my status to other people.
00:28:28.140
Yeah, well, I think,
00:28:28.780
oh, here's an interesting
00:28:29.640
example of it
00:28:30.440
that shows the status cycle
00:28:32.340
is informally dressing
00:28:34.660
as a flex, right?
00:28:36.220
Like in the early days
00:28:37.720
of tech CEOs
00:28:38.880
becoming super wealthy,
00:28:40.600
they would wear
00:28:41.240
pretty disrespectfully
00:28:43.480
informal clothes
00:28:44.440
as a flex
00:28:45.280
because they could
00:28:46.080
because it just had
00:28:46.800
that much money
00:28:47.260
and they were still
00:28:47.820
not in the room.
00:28:49.000
And then I think we saw
00:28:49.880
the height of it
00:28:51.280
with Sam Bankman-Fried
00:28:52.440
who was not only
00:28:54.040
wearing very respectfully
00:28:56.360
informal clothes
00:28:57.100
but even behaving
00:28:58.380
disrespectfully,
00:28:59.300
like playing games
00:29:00.140
while on key interviews.
00:29:01.520
Oh, I love this.
00:29:02.300
Okay, so if people
00:29:02.720
don't know Sam Bankman-Fried,
00:29:04.300
FTX, big EA guy,
00:29:06.580
basically funded 80%
00:29:07.980
of all effective
00:29:09.100
altruism stuff.
00:29:10.260
Interesting, yeah.
00:29:11.020
And he would always flex
00:29:12.240
about how, oh,
00:29:13.160
like he was living
00:29:15.040
inexpensively, right?
00:29:18.140
Expensively.
00:29:19.240
So that he could give
00:29:20.460
all his money to charity,
00:29:21.700
okay, right?
00:29:22.560
But then you'd see him
00:29:23.780
on business meetings
00:29:24.700
and he'd be playing
00:29:26.200
League of Legends, right?
00:29:27.860
This was the famous thing
00:29:28.660
that he would do.
00:29:29.840
Why was he doing this?
00:29:31.120
This was not to give money
00:29:32.540
to effective altruism.
00:29:33.740
It was to show class status
00:29:36.120
through insulting
00:29:37.320
the other people
00:29:38.460
on the meeting
00:29:38.940
without having them leave.
00:29:40.180
The moment I saw that,
00:29:41.640
I knew all this guy
00:29:43.040
cared about with status
00:29:43.940
because you look at us
00:29:45.660
and the ways
00:29:46.560
that we save money.
00:29:48.660
We try to donate
00:29:49.320
around 50% of our yearly income
00:29:50.940
to charities
00:29:51.800
or causes like that.
00:29:53.360
And this has been
00:29:54.080
recorded in newspapers,
00:29:55.280
so we're not BSing this.
00:29:56.600
This is in like
00:29:57.100
Telegraph and stuff.
00:29:58.400
And we do that
00:29:59.780
through extreme
00:30:01.360
daily austerity.
00:30:03.180
But I would never
00:30:05.020
disrespect
00:30:06.200
a business partner
00:30:07.780
or waste time
00:30:10.140
that I could be spending
00:30:11.500
being productive,
00:30:13.020
being indolent.
00:30:14.880
Oh, indolent.
00:30:16.380
Whether it's video games
00:30:17.700
or the gym,
00:30:19.220
if it is not moving you
00:30:21.060
towards your objective function,
00:30:22.180
the thing that you believe
00:30:23.060
has value in the world,
00:30:24.200
right?
00:30:24.520
And I hope
00:30:25.220
that's not your personal aesthetics,
00:30:27.940
then it is a sin.
00:30:30.280
It's sinful.
00:30:31.020
And we all engage in sin.
00:30:32.740
I engage in sin myself.
00:30:34.280
This doesn't help me.
00:30:35.100
But at least
00:30:37.040
when I am doing it,
00:30:38.660
I acknowledge
00:30:39.740
the cost of that sin
00:30:41.920
to my lifestyle.
00:30:43.500
I do not pretend
00:30:44.800
like my sin
00:30:46.360
is a virtue.
00:30:48.540
Whether that...
00:30:50.100
Yeah, I think there's a...
00:30:52.420
In terms of successfully
00:30:53.680
signaling status,
00:30:54.880
like using these
00:30:55.780
in some way
00:30:56.720
rarefied commodities,
00:30:58.060
be it a tan
00:30:58.720
or a not tan
00:30:59.560
or muscles
00:31:00.180
or wearing informal clothes,
00:31:02.340
there's a level
00:31:03.140
of moderation
00:31:03.740
that's required
00:31:04.380
and there's also
00:31:05.020
a level of trailblazing
00:31:06.320
that's required
00:31:06.840
to genuinely show it,
00:31:08.080
right?
00:31:08.260
Because once everyone's doing it
00:31:09.700
or once a certain critical mass
00:31:10.940
of people is doing it,
00:31:12.280
it starts being seen
00:31:13.340
as a demonstration
00:31:14.620
not of status
00:31:15.580
or of genuine dominance
00:31:16.760
but of status anxiety.
00:31:18.700
And the reason
00:31:19.320
why you're doing it
00:31:20.000
or why you're doing it
00:31:20.720
in excess
00:31:21.240
is because you feel like
00:31:22.960
you need to signal
00:31:23.740
your status
00:31:24.300
and if you feel like
00:31:25.260
you need to signal
00:31:25.900
your status,
00:31:26.600
it's because you
00:31:27.400
personally at least
00:31:28.940
don't feel like
00:31:29.460
you have it
00:31:29.900
in the first place.
00:31:31.080
I think that's why
00:31:31.780
many, for example,
00:31:32.560
designer brands
00:31:33.400
have come to be seen
00:31:34.680
as actually quite trashy
00:31:35.960
by many groups
00:31:36.740
because like
00:31:37.120
it's pretty trashy
00:31:38.820
these days, right?
00:31:39.580
Yes, because the groups
00:31:40.760
who are desperate
00:31:41.800
to signal status
00:31:42.760
are getting it in excess.
00:31:45.000
So I think
00:31:45.380
if there's also
00:31:46.240
a takeaway on like
00:31:47.280
how to leverage
00:31:49.540
this dynamic
00:31:50.200
in a way
00:31:50.620
that genuinely
00:31:51.280
impresses people,
00:31:52.840
one, don't do something
00:31:53.840
that's overplayed
00:31:55.400
and two,
00:31:56.000
just look for something
00:31:56.960
it can even be unique
00:31:58.380
that just demonstrates
00:31:59.200
that you have more time
00:32:00.620
or money or resources
00:32:01.640
and other people
00:32:02.440
but honestly
00:32:03.340
like the copycat approach
00:32:04.800
doing it by currently
00:32:06.280
like getting more muscle
00:32:07.580
or flexing
00:32:08.540
that you can be informal
00:32:09.380
somewhere
00:32:09.880
or even traveling
00:32:11.200
to expensive vacation
00:32:12.660
destinations
00:32:13.200
just isn't really
00:32:14.080
going to impress
00:32:14.740
people anymore
00:32:15.320
because it's being
00:32:16.600
it's already being
00:32:18.400
signaled by too many
00:32:19.520
people who are
00:32:20.440
extremely status anxious.
00:32:22.460
Yep.
00:32:23.380
Oh, well, still
00:32:24.240
I love talking about this.
00:32:25.400
I'm really excited
00:32:26.360
to see how we're
00:32:27.740
going to tackle this
00:32:28.580
with our kids
00:32:29.340
when they all become
00:32:30.300
very self-conscious
00:32:31.340
around puberty.
00:32:32.540
It's one thing
00:32:33.400
for us to feel
00:32:34.060
comfortable with the subjects
00:32:35.180
and to be comfortable
00:32:35.940
with ourselves
00:32:36.660
but helping a teenage
00:32:39.620
young adult
00:32:40.900
make it through this
00:32:42.320
is it possible?
00:32:43.500
I don't know.
00:32:44.020
I mean, I think it
00:32:44.860
honestly, I don't think
00:32:45.540
in Amish communities
00:32:46.360
you're seeing huge levels
00:32:47.480
of body dysmorphia.
00:32:48.860
I think that
00:32:49.220
they aren't.
00:32:50.220
Yeah.
00:32:50.840
But anyway, I'm looking
00:32:51.660
for detectives.
00:32:52.120
It's interesting
00:32:52.720
within Amish communities
00:32:53.740
because class
00:32:55.000
is not determined
00:32:56.200
by wealth.
00:32:57.680
In any extent.
00:33:00.200
The class status
00:33:01.600
signaling is around
00:33:02.280
things like beard links.
00:33:03.920
It's around things
00:33:04.980
like biblical knowledge.
00:33:06.740
There are many different
00:33:07.740
ways you can determine
00:33:08.640
I like that both beard
00:33:09.680
length and biblical
00:33:10.600
knowledge are both.
00:33:11.920
Well, there was a
00:33:12.840
hate crime case recently
00:33:14.240
and actually
00:33:14.920
some Amish
00:33:15.680
cut off other
00:33:16.460
Amish men's beards.
00:33:18.040
Oh, shots fired.
00:33:20.520
I know you see
00:33:21.460
that as trivial
00:33:22.260
but to them.
00:33:23.160
No, I don't know.
00:33:23.840
I learned from
00:33:24.720
Shanghai Noon
00:33:26.020
with Jackie Chan
00:33:27.860
that having
00:33:28.740
hair cut off
00:33:30.160
is like
00:33:30.740
super not cool.
00:33:32.440
All right.
00:33:32.880
But yeah,
00:33:33.240
this is true
00:33:33.840
in some like
00:33:34.420
Asian communities.
00:33:35.520
Like the top knot.
00:33:36.480
Man, no.
00:33:37.220
Like the ceremonial hair
00:33:38.580
you do not
00:33:39.260
you do not touch
00:33:40.300
in any culture
00:33:41.480
with any gender
00:33:42.520
you do not
00:33:43.260
you do not touch
00:33:44.020
weave
00:33:44.460
you do not touch
00:33:45.620
ceremonial top knots
00:33:46.960
and you do not
00:33:47.400
touch a beard.
00:33:48.100
Just draw the line.
00:33:48.920
But anyway, Malcolm
00:33:49.500
we got to move on
00:33:50.380
with our lives.
00:33:51.060
It is so wonderful
00:33:51.980
to have you back
00:33:52.680
from a business trip.
00:33:53.500
I love you so much.
00:33:55.260
I love you so much.
00:33:55.780
You are amazing.
00:33:57.400
You are so great
00:33:58.980
to be married to.
00:33:59.860
When you were gone
00:34:00.960
every moment
00:34:02.020
was suffering
00:34:02.880
because you
00:34:04.080
are just
00:34:05.780
such an amazing
00:34:07.380
integral part
00:34:08.620
of my
00:34:09.660
daily
00:34:10.420
feeling
00:34:11.740
of
00:34:12.440
of completeness.
00:34:13.980
And Malcolm
00:34:14.220
you are my status
00:34:15.980
signal
00:34:16.700
my status
00:34:17.400
totem.
00:34:18.140
Yeah, I heard
00:34:18.780
when you left
00:34:19.160
everyone was like
00:34:19.580
are you a model?
00:34:20.840
And I was like
00:34:21.380
that made me feel good
00:34:22.520
because I was like
00:34:23.420
Oh, so yeah
00:34:23.820
I'm your trophy wife
00:34:24.780
and you're my
00:34:25.400
my status
00:34:27.800
my trophy husband
00:34:28.460
My favorite moment
00:34:30.100
in the pronatalist
00:34:31.240
saying was
00:34:31.860
there was this person
00:34:32.400
on Twitter being like
00:34:33.060
oh, these people
00:34:33.680
are disgusting
00:34:34.240
and someone was like
00:34:34.800
don't you know
00:34:36.100
that they don't
00:34:36.720
actually look like that?
00:34:37.660
That's a pair of models
00:34:38.580
that was hired
00:34:39.560
to promote
00:34:41.000
the pronatalist movement
00:34:42.120
and
00:34:43.140
Yeah, it was like
00:34:44.200
the best
00:34:44.660
like
00:34:45.060
insult
00:34:46.160
that was really
00:34:47.200
a compliment
00:34:47.800
that was totally
00:34:49.080
not meant as a compliment
00:34:49.980
that was
00:34:50.580
incredibly sweet
00:34:51.640
whoever, you out there
00:34:52.900
You out there
00:34:54.220
who tried to insult us
00:34:55.300
with that
00:34:55.660
it really meant
00:34:56.780
the world to us
00:34:57.380
I have been riding
00:34:58.400
on that horse
00:34:59.180
for a long time
00:35:00.320
Yeah, the best thing
00:35:01.080
we ever heard, man
00:35:01.880
Yeah
00:35:02.360
All right, Malcolm
00:35:03.580
See you downstairs
00:35:05.140
Have a good one
00:35:06.180
I have been riding on that horse
00:35:07.920
I have been riding on that horse
00:35:08.620
I have been riding on that horse
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