The 1950s Where Sexually Degenerate by Modern Standards
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
181.43527
Summary
In this episode, we discuss sexual norms loosening over time and the areas where sexual norms are tightening, rather than loosening. We discuss how sexual norms were loosened in the past, and how they are tightening in the present.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
hello simone i'm excited to be here with you today today we are going to be talking about
00:00:03.360
the way that our society used to be and i don't mean like in roman or ancient greece i'm talking
00:00:09.980
1950s 1920s much more debauched than it is today the areas where sexual norms are tightening
00:00:20.120
rather than loosening and we're going to try to build a model to understand in which areas
00:00:26.220
to sexual norms seem to loosen over time and in which areas of sexual norms seem to tighten over
00:00:31.780
time so just to throw you guys in the deep end here if you're like wow come on things couldn't
00:00:38.560
have been that much more sexually loose in like the 1950s well around that time period we'll get to
00:00:44.860
the specifics later in this around 40 percent of young men participated in mutual masturbation with
00:00:51.160
other young men this was normal if you have four grandparents you're dealing with what like oh
00:00:57.620
why did you take it there chance one of them did this given that all of you have four great
00:01:04.420
grandfathers that means there's an 87 chance that one of your great grandfathers participated in
00:01:12.900
in today's society basically no guy does this this is like only for gay guys okay i don't even
00:01:24.300
know if it's for gay guys i don't know man and this is something if you're like wait is this
00:01:30.180
continuing to happen it happened to me when i was going through with an ai asking like where his
00:01:35.760
sexual norms tightened yeah and it's like well of course a long time ago they used to have public
00:01:41.420
showers in schools for the boys and the girls and now it's all private stalls and i totally remember
00:01:46.340
in my high school gym they were i remember this too i was like what they got rid of that well we
00:01:52.400
never won we all changed for gym class but we didn't show each other like we didn't we changed very
00:01:58.400
carefully and there were showers and i always wondered why because we never know i remember when they had
00:02:04.080
that in my school they had that in every school i ever attended i never once used a public shower
00:02:09.840
despite it being in every school i ever attended and the somebody could be like wait what it's like
00:02:16.060
because they were already these norms were already changing within our generation that i knew it was weird
00:02:21.520
to be naked around other boys my age and i didn't want to do that even though the facilities were still
00:02:29.160
structured that way and a lot of the schools that are doing these changes now are saying well
00:02:33.960
if we leave them the old ways no one will use them right i mean that's fair because no one used them
00:02:37.980
at my school it was wasted space yeah no one used them at my school anymore they were from like a
00:02:42.960
previous era where and i've seen shows like apparently this was a thing that happened at one point in human
00:02:48.880
history and i think that if you were on like maybe the football team or something there might have been
00:02:55.100
some norms around using them like if you got like really sweaty and gross in whatever sport you were
00:02:59.740
doing maybe they used public showers but even then i can't imagine they use them in the girls rooms
00:03:04.480
had you had you ever seen a group of girls using the public showers at the same time
00:03:08.920
so on swim team we did all use the shower but we never took our clothes off we showered in our
00:03:14.720
swimsuits oh that's why it's really weird with that one like there are stories of that one
00:03:21.720
trans swimmer just having their junk out in the women's locker room because dude like we didn't
00:03:29.580
even have our tits out in the in the locker room like it was just the most you'd ever see
00:03:35.060
the most you'd ever see out there or the what lindsey lindsey thomas right leah thomas leah thomas
00:03:42.660
there we go yeah yeah so this individual for people who don't know this trans swimmer they didn't
00:03:46.420
have bottom surgery when they were doing all this they were flashing underage girls in in a swim
00:03:51.160
swimming yeah but also like at least where i went to school in california which is pretty progressive
00:03:56.520
no one in the girls locker room ever took off their clothes right but and then even in camp
00:04:03.560
like when we were in camp together all this like you know there's all these like 80s movies of one
00:04:08.060
yeah yeah rooms and like oh gosh look her body's so perfect but also like men looking at sleepovers
00:04:13.460
that teenage women were having as they were taking off their clothes and changing for bed and oh my god
00:04:17.440
like i'd like how hot they are no the like if i saw someone else changing clothes and i did exactly
00:04:24.000
the same thing you would change under a sweatshirt period i i've never seen a peer put on a bra for
00:04:31.300
example i've seen a peer put on a bra under a sweatshirt like 100 times and i've done it myself
00:04:35.340
but like that's i don't know this is fascinating why are these social norms becoming more conservative
00:04:41.600
in regards to to yeah i guess yeah when you think about it yeah i didn't think about the fact that
00:04:45.880
these 80s movies i watched had all these naked teens and that i would never think of exposing myself in
00:04:53.800
front of my peers no i would i would be so weird i remember yeah i went to my dad and we'll we'll talk
00:04:59.260
about these these these naked sweat lodges and stuff like that that used to be common i went to my dad
00:05:03.520
one of the i was like this is weird like you know i i don't care that this is like what men do like
00:05:08.900
this is and a lot of these institutions just aren't as big as they used to be but it's not just that
00:05:13.200
that's not the only area another big one what actually inspired this was a kirscher piece this
00:05:18.380
is the the vtuber who went through this cancellation recently so i went through a lot of her backlog and one
00:05:23.920
of the episodes i found particularly interesting was on how normalized having sex with donkeys is
00:05:31.000
in the cartagena region of colombia okay who's having sex with are the donkeys having sex with
00:05:39.540
each other or as a human men men typically considered that your first sexual partner is a donkey
00:05:45.540
but are you gonna like pick up diseases from that apparently don't care but most women in the
00:05:53.860
i would worry i would worry and get like some kind of bacterial illness if my husband
00:05:59.260
man like i don't care at all that you slept with a lot of women before we married but if i'd known
00:06:06.940
that you had stuck your dick in a donkey i would have trouble this is this is what colombian women deal
00:06:15.320
with in in do they know do they know not rare like do they know or like this is normalized within
00:06:21.980
our country what's wrong here you are just this community believed that males would not achieve
00:06:28.240
competence in marriage unless they practice intercourse with a donkey
00:06:33.600
the sofilia in the caribbean colombian is a reality for general no it is the majority of adolescentes
00:06:40.140
of young men had relations with the burras it is more for me I think it was an element of
00:06:46.800
planning family planning because if these young men had no relation with burras if not with
00:06:51.880
niñas they would be able to do it almost all of us in my time we had relations with burras
00:06:56.600
the coastal region of colombia has been known for males making love to donkeys but i expected this
00:07:21.160
topic to be taboo hearing people talking about it so openly and with no shame but they're not
00:07:28.040
learning how to pleasure a woman like i could get it i think that like there's some tropes that like
00:07:32.800
okay well men should have some kind of sexual encounter before they you know have sex with their
00:07:39.860
girlfriend or their wife so that they know how to please a woman and don't like embarrass themselves
00:07:45.720
or like come too quickly but this is different because you're not learning how to pleasure a
00:07:51.080
donkey this was well look i can see look a lot of regions have gotten that are rural regions like
00:07:57.780
wales have gotten this stereotype in the past it was the common thing about way okay so what first
00:08:03.140
you were saying this was what colombian and now you're saying well in colombia it's it up until
00:08:08.900
modern times like video cameras being able to go in it's like oh this is the guy who rinsed out his
00:08:13.660
donkey yeah this is a regular thing in our community wales stopped doing this probably about
00:08:19.040
i don't know three years ago sorry i'm joking i'm joking i'm joking i think about 80 or years
00:08:26.600
ago or 50 years ago it probably stopped in wales but you know i'm having some fun with our welsh
00:08:32.180
audience here but you know and you and this was not just in these countries it's also in the united
00:08:38.080
states so this is one of the only paraphilias or fetishes that has decreased in in commonality
00:08:45.820
within the united states is this i don't know though because i feel like there's this underground
00:08:52.540
tendency of people to fix on this like okay so if i quote from our book okay kenzie's study back in
00:09:00.040
1948 this is a pregnant guy to sexuality but who wants to read this so in 1948 found that eight percent
00:09:05.420
of men and three percent of women had had sex was an animal but with time these numbers have dropped
00:09:12.240
with more recent studies showing them to be around five percent and two percent respectively
00:09:16.820
likely a product of lower access to animals in a more urban society these numbers are fascinating
00:09:22.380
when contrasted with our survey results which suggests that only six percent of males and two
00:09:26.680
percent of females are aroused by the idea of sex with an animal if this data is accurate this
00:09:31.940
indicates that 87 percent of people who are aroused by the idea of sex with an animal have tried it
00:09:37.020
now so a few notes here it used to be almost 10 almost one in 10 men in the united states in 1948
00:09:47.120
had had sex with an animal at some point in their life okay that's a lot yeah part of what i worry
00:09:54.280
about though just from like stuff i've seen around on the internet is that a lot of women are intimate
00:10:01.500
with their dogs but they're like it doesn't count well that's decreased it's gone from three percent to
00:10:06.160
two percent no no it does happen so most zoophiles who are intimate i don't think they no i don't
00:10:11.580
think they identify zoo files it's just something that happens to them sometimes that's well okay
00:10:18.740
but it's usually because remember we went down this whole rabbit hole where you were like you know
00:10:22.640
there's these people who are into dolphins and i'm like no they're not you're like yes they are
00:10:25.840
look it up and then somehow we ended up on people into dogs and i discovered this long lectures on like
00:10:31.200
the the the operational logistics of how this is carried out in modern society
00:10:35.940
yeah as detailed in this case that the rabbit hole we fell down was by an italian dog breeder
00:10:40.680
by trade but like she revealed this was a bigger community than i thought so i don't know maybe
00:10:46.640
this was like a big part it sounded like this was as big a part of her life as like polyamory is
00:10:52.300
oh no like 100 this woman was thoughtful i don't know how i found her through a dolphin affinity
00:10:59.560
it was it was a fascinating because we were at a wedding and we were listening to this like a long
00:11:11.620
anyway i don't know i feel like i think and this is something that i i always hesitate with when it
00:11:19.120
comes to women and sex research is they're like it's not porn it's a it's romanticy you know but
00:11:26.240
no sweetie it's yeah yeah so no but the point i'm making here is that this is another category where
00:11:35.920
even within the united states sexual mores were much much much looser historically and so you know
00:11:43.500
we're getting a few categories here bestiality is one where where it's become a lot stricter
00:11:46.940
and public nudity is one where it's become a lot stricter um the the interesting thing about the
00:11:52.640
bestiality one is if you go to the kirscher show she talks a lot about like tijuana donkey shows
00:12:00.440
wait okay so they didn't just use the donkeys they watched other people using the donkeys well tijuana
00:12:08.640
donkey shows appear to be a myth they they they are not reported until the 1970s okay and if they
00:12:14.220
existed they might have been a faked thing to sort of get drunk tourists excited because it sounds
00:12:20.740
like something that would happen at a debauched roman empire collapse party if you know what i mean
00:12:27.900
right but but i'm pointing people will report having been to them some there's some stories of
00:12:32.360
like some former but there's really no hard recording that this was ever a thing and if it was
00:12:38.140
as common as people like today pretend it was we should have some record of it especially given
00:12:44.220
the extensive records we have of this happening in columbia you know so why isn't this recorded
00:12:49.260
anywhere in mexico so that appears to be a myth which but people in comics on kirscher were like well
00:12:56.120
my grandmother told me about going to one of these so you know maybe given the comment again one in
00:13:02.740
10 men in the 1940s that hadn't done it was an animal right i think yeah but i do think a big
00:13:09.600
part of this though was like animal availability i bet that if men had the same rate of exposure to
00:13:14.860
animals now yeah actually that's a good point yeah not have as much exposure to animals they would
00:13:23.100
like having sex with today as women do i don't yes that i don't know if they would like like having
00:13:29.360
sex with if it's a if it's a wet warm hole well i don't think that men are like interested in dogs
00:13:36.960
in the same way they're interested in something like horses or sheep that are like well no dog yeah
00:13:41.160
no dogs we'll just if we or if we're talking about morphology and like what you as a man or woman would
00:13:48.280
want to use to pleasure yourself women obviously shouldn't go for donkeys and horses but dogs and as
00:13:57.460
this woman in her detailed analysis the italian dog breeder who really liked intimate relations
00:14:03.200
with dogs pointed out that there are specific breeds whose special parts match the size of human
00:14:09.520
special parts so she went for that so like women i could see even when it comes to like not just dogs
00:14:16.960
going down on a woman but like dogs doing more than that like they make sense whereas dogs sheep
00:14:24.000
like it like larger animals don't make sense but a larger animal from a man's perspective even
00:14:29.360
considering their height are kind of perfect yeah which is why why i think that this went down much
00:14:35.240
more for men than women as you saw with the statistics exactly yeah because dogs are i mean even now it's
00:14:40.380
like fur babies like they're they're pervasive in households and especially households where women
00:14:44.280
are alone and they're not being watched and they're the thing that really shocked me is that is that you
00:14:49.780
know 80 87 percent of people with this kink have tried it and i guess it's just because it's so hard
00:14:55.060
to police or or do anything about right who's gonna well and that's the thing who's gonna know
00:14:59.480
well and and 72 percent oh god if dogs suddenly get some ai ability to talk oh that's not gonna be
00:15:07.240
fun for these people all the pet owners gonna be like no no no no no no no no no no white white
00:15:14.440
progressive women let me let me know yeah so 72 percent in one study responded to not seeing
00:15:20.080
anything wrong with this this is today and 80 percent claim they believe the animals had offered
00:15:24.900
consent so this is the just just you know people who engage with it why the engagement rate is so high
00:15:31.220
because they just don't see anything wrong with it and like i can make all the consent arguments i want
00:15:38.280
but like i don't veal sometimes you know so like the the point i'm making is that our society has an
00:15:46.900
awful lot of concern for the consent of an animal when somebody wants to eff it but not a lot when
00:15:53.080
we're torturing if people don't know what veal is it's basically torture baby cow you see with veal
00:15:58.660
the whole key is keeping the cows changed so they can't walk around or get any exercise that way their
00:16:03.500
muscle tissue stays soft wait a minute veal is little baby cows yipper then why the hell did
00:16:09.760
they call it veal well if we called it little baby cow people might not eat it yeah i wouldn't have
00:16:14.580
me neither oh man look at that one it looks delicious what succulent and juicy can we have
00:16:21.140
a free sample of these too you know not not a lot when we are factory farming it and i think that's a
00:16:25.760
little hypocritical that is yeah yeah i mean if you could ask an animal what they would prefer
00:16:31.500
to be veal or to be someone's special times partner i mean i know what i would choose
00:16:39.180
yeah no i mean absolutely if humans get enslaved by aliens yeah i'll be i'll be the other one i
00:16:47.240
genuinely hope that it is weird alien quirks where they're like i wanted to go out in space and screw
00:16:53.680
green chick they're like i want to go out in space and screw white chicks yeah instead of like you know
00:16:59.280
force feed and then eat them i'll choose the other one yeah all right all right so so when we were
00:17:05.660
talking about the colombia thing gabriel garcia martinez works like 100 years of solitude allude
00:17:11.540
to such practices in rural settings so this is a famous colombian poet yeah i read his work in
00:17:15.980
spanish class that's crazy yes but he talks about doing this oh so that's how common it is he has a
00:17:23.620
nobel prize by the way i think in like literature um i mean he's covering the truth that's the truth
00:17:28.860
that's fine in the u.s remember i talked about mutual masturbation thing used to be common
00:17:32.160
who talked about that you were telling me earlier today kanye west talking about childhood experiences
00:17:38.360
with young young someone young person his age that were would be considered vastly inappropriate now
00:17:44.120
and he's out there not only talking about it publicly but referencing it in songs here's another
00:17:49.280
fun one stag parties have you heard of these these are popular aren't these bachelor parties
00:17:54.360
they're a a form of male only parties that were common from the 1910s to the 1950s
00:17:59.720
in which a group of men would watch pornographic films together
00:18:03.440
what and 1950s projectionists recalled them as being a rite of passage at bachelor parties as well
00:18:10.900
so okay bachelor parties yeah there's also a thing at bachelor parties so there was a thing where
00:18:16.120
you would hire strippers to come to your this would like never happen today the idea it still
00:18:21.160
happens in movies i don't know if it happens today or not no i did research to see if if there's people
00:18:26.060
are still doing it still a thing that happens i mean just think about it like why would i cheat on
00:18:31.600
my wife the day before i'm getting married this requires like a dramatically different concept of
00:18:36.780
marriage than the one we have in our society i'm about to spend the rest of my life with someone i
00:18:41.200
deeply care about and so the last thing i want to do is sleep with somebody else like every everyone
00:18:47.780
involved in that should be like taking you aside and being like dude if you want to like see a bunch
00:18:52.120
of like naked people right before you should probably rethink this this doesn't know but historically
00:18:58.060
wives really were seen is like this ball and chain or like this idea of like your life is restricted now
00:19:04.200
you're giving something up you are enslaving yourself to your duty to humanity right and that's not
00:19:11.480
that's not why people get married anymore yeah yeah no nobody does that nobody does that and so like
00:19:17.300
who like okay think the cultural groups who get married today like who is going to do like strippers
00:19:23.320
at a bachelor party you've got your i think it's more that your jerk friend guy friend does it
00:19:31.100
because he's you know the hosting it like typically friends like that anymore no but well i don't know
00:19:36.320
i mean no there are definitely different cultural groups in the u.s where you know especially resentful
00:19:44.380
guy friends might you know bring in that just because they they're resentful that their friend is
00:19:50.760
being lost to them by some woman they think is wrong for their friend i don't i mean i just i could
00:19:55.180
see it i could see it happening i could see but but also i don't know how easy it is to even hire
00:20:00.560
strippers anymore but but yeah right but the idea as well i'm actually gonna
00:20:06.120
like a bunch of men getting together and watching a pornographic film at the same time today that
00:20:14.340
would never happen that is well against the sexual mores of our society today totally
00:20:18.500
next one banana split strippers we come to you we come to you bachelor part yeah make it a night to
00:20:26.680
remember hire our sexy strippers for the ultimate party hottest strippers in town delivered to your door
00:20:31.520
okay i mean it's you can have a firefighter police or or veteran they seem for women
00:20:40.540
doesn't seem like actual nudity no let me testimonials and reviews
00:20:50.580
yeah that's weird ocono's bachelor party strippers i was asking ai if this is common now so apparently
00:20:59.420
it's not common but it still exists somewhere that the business this is a
00:21:03.560
this is a these are people production stag party female strippers stag party still like that's wild
00:21:12.060
yeah offers the hottest female strippers and entertainers for fun stag parties customize
00:21:17.060
customize your stag party for a memorable oh bad girl bad girl number one
00:21:22.980
whoa yeah this this could have been your experience malcolm
00:21:30.360
and look at how much fun they're having with their solo cups and fezes
00:21:35.700
that doesn't see that one at all that looks miserable i do not want to watch some other
00:21:40.580
naked i can see naked women on the internet i don't need to invite them over to my house
00:21:45.000
but no simone so next next crazy thing that used to happen okay
00:21:49.180
burlesque shows which i'm sure many people are oh yeah vita vontis or sorry dita vontis
00:21:55.040
like really it was from the 1920s to 1950s yeah and they're still no when we were in vegas dita vontis
00:22:00.840
had an active show in the hotel where we were staying yeah but they don't like actually strip
00:22:05.920
anymore as far as i know she wears pasties oh she does yeah but i mean i think it's more about
00:22:12.260
the aesthetic it's more like when i go to a burlesque show today i think i'm reliving a 1920s
00:22:18.560
experience i don't yeah no i think people you're there to be like oh like let me put on my smoking
00:22:22.500
jacket costume and yeah for fun i don't think people are like excited by it yeah well you also have
00:22:29.380
things like what is it like go-go dancers and stuff like that what a lot of people don't know
00:22:34.400
about go-go dancers one of your friends did go-go dancing two years ago for fun but go-go dancing
00:22:40.700
is like a way to be like classy i love this like women now are like learning go-go dancing so go-go
00:22:46.260
dancing historically they wouldn't wear underwear it was like the reason they do the big foot movements
00:22:51.160
and everything you think no no no you're thinking of the can-can can-can that's what i'm thinking
00:22:56.260
yeah so no no this is the the can-can yeah that that's back in like we're talking like turn of
00:23:01.400
the century moulin rouge in paris the can-can is the dress where the women pull up their skirts and and
00:23:08.020
and move their legs in unison the reason why this was that was delicious was because they were wearing
00:23:13.640
split drawers and split drawers means that they're wearing pantalons with an open you can see their
00:23:19.480
private parts when their dress flips up and of course they're flipping their legs up so you can see
00:23:23.360
everything go-go dancing is more of a dude looking hot thing but i think it's also maybe now more of a
00:23:30.780
like sorry i'm not familiar with my historical dances i'm trying to do part of this memory
00:23:35.940
no hold on there's there's other crazy things that they did in the past
00:23:40.940
so when i i dug a lot into go-go dancers just entertain crowns at nightclubs but it's it's not i
00:23:47.880
don't think it's it's it's like it's not intentionally it's not like a strip they're just wearing very
00:23:52.740
small pants as a man or woman well here's here's a fun one that people don't know about they can be
00:23:57.140
like well you know the past they weren't as debauched as they are today they certainly didn't
00:24:00.840
have anything like rule 34 except we have things called tilly and macbooks or tijuana bibles yeah
00:24:07.660
were common from the 1920s to the 1950s and you could buy in barber shops and these would have things
00:24:13.520
like popeye having sex or mickey and mini mouse having sex um include themes of bdsm or other
00:24:23.220
sort of like subversive humorous themes and and at their height there was about a thousand different
00:24:29.280
titles in active publication at a time so this was very big like maybe as big as the comic industry is
00:24:35.720
today given how much it's declined due to its wokeness like well even in the past like people
00:24:41.460
would like a lot of the like political cartoons were probably not even political cartoons they were
00:24:46.340
just people drawing no no no so one of the for example a great one that came out this was this was
00:24:53.360
during the world war ii was a gay one where it was stalin having sex with hitler no they did
00:25:01.700
made it all in otp yeah sure yeah yeah you could you could buy your book of of stalin effing hitler
00:25:09.160
in the 19 in the 1950s or 40s barber shop just be like hey i want my barber shop that's where they
00:25:16.360
sold them out of yeah well you could think of them as like community centers of the time period where
00:25:20.660
people would go okay now let's discuss key parties have you ever heard of key parties okay i think i've
00:25:28.660
seen in some like teen drama soapy show some kind of secret society where you get invited and go to
00:25:37.580
some house and everyone's wearing masks that don't actually cover their faces and having sex is that
00:25:43.300
that or no no key parties was something that was popular from the 1950s to the 1970s okay united states
00:25:50.980
swinger culture in which everyone would go to a party and they would put their keys in a bowl
00:25:56.080
and you would go at when you grab the keys from one of the opposite gender bowls and then sleep
00:26:03.120
with whoever keys you grab you'd be going back to their house that was the idea you don't want to
00:26:10.080
it's like it gets worse than a consensual non-consent party i mean at a-list parties you've got the the
00:26:24.620
armband indicating what you're into this is before the aids epidemic i don't care what if you're not
00:26:31.660
like what if they're not hot well i know i hear you but with the point i'm making here is one of the
00:26:36.560
things that i think led to a lot of this like true promiscuity to die down we'll talk about the
00:26:41.300
free love movement in a bit was the aids epidemic in which it was just like no you don't want to go
00:26:45.840
to a party without testing people and have sex with random strangers we have better entertainment
00:26:51.300
options i don't i mean yes concern about stds arose more but i think the much bigger thing is we can just
00:27:00.260
there's so many more fun things we can do consider that at this time what did you have like
00:27:05.180
occasional tv programs if you had a tv radio like fishing board games people would invite you over
00:27:14.340
to their house to play cards i could see sex being a lot more appealing back then i mean
00:27:20.400
they would and what else are you going to do and also like you don't have it even work like you and
00:27:25.300
they're like well we could have sex or we could work more and like this is a crucial time in human
00:27:29.400
history so like often the trade-off is like should we be working or should we have sex
00:27:33.280
and like even back then like you know husband like wife is at home husband finishes his nine
00:27:38.900
to five like literally he doesn't have a telephone like he's not at the office it all is there's not
00:27:43.520
that much work you can even he literally can't work if he wanted to so when he does woodworking or sex
00:27:49.680
like yeah that's like and i mean sex is probably a little more interesting than woodworking so like
00:27:55.340
yeah i could totally see people turning to this because it's parties by the way do not appear to
00:28:00.960
a bit of myth in a 2008 slate article it cites interviews with 1970 swingers who confirmed key
00:28:06.780
parties occurred you would have to have a really trusting and and like you'd have to have a group
00:28:12.780
where everyone just agreed i think it'd have to be like this the secret lives of mormon wives
00:28:16.700
situation where like everyone is equally young and hot you know like we're all sevens to tens here
00:28:22.600
one interview you recalled a 1972 ohio key party where couples used a bowl to swap partners in the
00:28:29.360
1997 film the ice storm portrays a key party in 1970s connecticut reflecting its cultural resonance
00:28:35.960
through dramatization a 2015 new york post notes key parties were a fad between the 1960s and 70s of
00:28:42.600
suburbanites and a 2010 village voice interview with a retired long island couple described attending a
00:28:49.820
1969 key party noting it was awkward but thrilling and involved eight couples that knew each other
00:28:56.240
socially they emphasized it was a one-off experiment and not a regular practice i i think you're right
00:29:02.120
this is all you know people who know each other that's well and who would all be like there's no way
00:29:07.660
it's going to happen if not everyone is like i'm open to any of you because you're not going to play
00:29:13.840
that game of well i mean look at endless parts you can look at our video on like organizing orgies
00:29:18.740
they're so curated yeah and she works so hard to get the right mix of people like all these things and
00:29:24.900
there's all these considerations i mean on one hand like the key party at least you don't have to worry
00:29:31.220
about group dynamics it's all one-on-one but then it's also a little bit more risky that way because
00:29:34.880
there's not the oversight in each individual private household so
00:29:38.160
yeah but i could see you know especially if you're like you know a lot of these women are on benzos
00:29:47.560
like they're stay-at-home moms they are tired of existing you know like i could see them just being
00:29:53.460
like screw it like just the thrill of not knowing who is going to come to your house could just like
00:30:00.920
they that's that's the rock bottom no i mean like i think we see the the end rot of this sort of
00:30:07.300
mindset in movies like american beauty and stuff like this which was sort of the last era of like
00:30:13.140
couples who had this sort of existential hatred for their lives and everything i think that's why a lot
00:30:17.460
of our generation hasn't gotten married as we saw this in our parents but like i look at my i recently
00:30:21.820
had my dad over and he's just impossible to talk to i you know he's like well you know there's so many
00:30:26.840
things that matter in life like experiences and i was like no the only thing that matters is what you
00:30:30.720
do you know you've got nothing left to live for now this is not a nice thing to say to your dad but i
00:30:35.920
mean i was like but honestly like our life the the weight of our life isn't the years we live
00:30:43.420
or the indulgences that we participate in it is what we do to make the world a better place for the next
00:30:50.080
generation and this as a concept just couldn't get through to a boomer right but i also think that
00:30:56.280
at this time as i was pointing out earlier there weren't a lot of options for people to make the
00:31:02.680
world a better place so what are they going to do with their free time and again i i there's so many
00:31:07.500
things going on right like testosterone levels are dropping sex drive is dropping in general people
00:31:11.640
are off hormonally so i think there's just less inherent little like endogenous chemical drive
00:31:18.160
for sex now but also yeah we are we are more prudish we are a lot more cautious we are a lot more
00:31:24.920
self-conscious we are given so many alternatives that the opportunity cost of pursuing and having sex
00:31:33.620
even if sex is immediately available is so high absolutely so let's get to the mutual masturbation
00:31:45.120
that was common in the 1950s men or is this women like i would i have found no accounts of women
00:31:53.040
doing this wouldn't let but like men are a lot of men are well okay actually a lot of men are not
00:31:57.300
turned off by penises in your data right they were like yeah they were okay with like this is weird i
00:32:03.020
would have found this to be the most disgusting thing ever like i know like is it is it is it a
00:32:09.480
cultural thing are people like it's a cultural thing i think i think it was just so normalized that
00:32:14.000
this is the way that you did things so to go over some anecdotes here because i find it pretty
00:32:18.360
interesting um kinsey's data suggested mutual masturbation was common among pubescent boys in
00:32:25.800
context like sleepovers and locker rooms he noted it was typically non-romantic at school
00:32:31.060
locker rooms yes by curiosity or competition and they were quote-unquote called circle jerks i remember i
00:32:37.980
read an account of one of these and and when he says competition he means that literally apparently
00:32:42.900
the comp like who comes faster what or who's bigger come goes farther was like one of the
00:32:48.060
things that they were i wonder how far like is there a guinness book of world records for i don't
00:32:56.260
know but i remember the person who wrote this story this was in a book that i was given on sexuality as
00:33:01.260
a kid and it was somebody talking about their own early sexual experiences okay and they were like i
00:33:06.380
dreamed that one day i could build like an erector set or something that could make mine go even further
00:33:10.780
you know like because anything could be solved with technology the physics yeah well how are you
00:33:15.420
aiming during the stroke yeah you gotta get the perfect this is it playing up what was the old
00:33:20.840
game that we played mine mine you shot like yeah i know what you're talking about yeah there's this
00:33:26.280
old game so a a a 2004 journal a sex research article cites 1950s oral histories remember called
00:33:38.340
neutral masturbation as a quote-unquote normal part of adolescence often in rural or segregated
00:33:43.200
settings with women with female limited with limited female interaction but wait hold on i'm just i'm
00:33:49.880
trying to think about these circle turns the men have to be turned on like you can't just be like
00:33:54.000
hard just thinking about being the man to come the furthest
00:33:58.080
no they they'd be like can you just can you just get off like without being turned on
00:34:04.380
as a guy like i'm trying to think of how this works okay they're very young they're only
00:34:10.880
keep in mind their their arousal levels are very high because they're so young
00:34:14.680
so like they just need to think about like boobs and then like they're they're good they wouldn't
00:34:18.820
normally turn them on there was a bunch of friends right like one interviewee described it as
00:34:24.980
just fooling around not a big deal in a 1950s iowa farm community they have access to the animals
00:34:32.940
so i'm sure mutual masturbation was like tame because in a 2015 reddit thread r ask historians
00:34:40.640
featured a user recalling their grandfather's stories of a 1950s circled jerks at a pennsylvania
00:34:46.400
summer camp describing it as a competitive game among boys not sexualized but just what kids did
00:34:53.060
it seems cooler to me when it's competitive like i'm a lot more interested in this sport of how
00:34:58.980
far can you come i think that is a lot i love that you're like but logistically how did it work
00:35:05.340
well i mean you know as soon as you bring that into it you know like now this is about skill this
00:35:10.020
is about precision this is about physics this is about health like i mean they're timing their
00:35:14.740
frequency of emissions yes yeah you gotta you gotta eat the right things you gotta drink the right
00:35:19.180
things performance okay okay so here's another crazy one which which i for ai i couldn't figure
00:35:26.300
into this after i had to like ask it like okay you're making ai so uncomfortable with all right
00:35:32.180
like so another one that was common historically was group porn viewing where there were this is like
00:35:39.180
those those theaters that that you can sometimes still drive by in old cities right where like the
00:35:44.100
the the the thing that made me aware of this was peewee herman the actor who played him ended up
00:35:49.700
basically paul rubens having his life ruined over being at one of these which i've always felt so
00:35:54.260
bad about it you're going to basically he was masturbating quote unquote in public because he was
00:35:58.800
masturbating during a porn movie theater oh that doesn't count i'm like what is that does not
00:36:06.180
everyone there know why they're going there yeah i mean if you're not allowed to masturbate in those
00:36:13.220
movie theaters article quote sex therapist hoffer questioning police priorities what do they expect
00:36:19.380
is happening at these movie theaters minitin those movies to become aroused like that that was but you
00:36:25.700
wouldn't do this today no one would do this today like i mean maybe they still exist for like
00:36:30.820
octogenarians or something but like i can't imagine people of our generation being like well i can
00:36:36.020
watch port on the internet or i could go to a movie theater and masturbate in a room full of other
00:36:42.660
men masturbating yeah i don't know about this man by the way if you're wondering what what was the
00:36:49.060
film that got him in trouble it was catalina 5-0 tiger shark nurse nancy and turn up the heat
00:36:56.180
because i needed to know that it was in 1991 july 26 at the south trail cinema
00:37:07.620
he was fined for 50 in 75 hours of community service and it completely destroyed his career
00:37:13.460
and he was such a good actor i'd like i feel so bad about this like honestly yeah but that also shows
00:37:18.660
like this this this you know diametric right like society was okay with these theaters existing this is a
00:37:24.740
common thing back then that people did but if you were caught and the police did regular stings
00:37:30.100
it could ruin your life if you had a public career yeah oh man now here's another fun one uh-huh
00:37:41.860
okay yeah yeah so we're going to talk about female female and male nudity because it used to be much
00:37:48.260
more common in the 1960s and 1980s public displays of female nudity particularly toplessness
00:37:53.700
were more socially accepted in certain contexts okay beaches festivals and media compared to today
00:37:59.220
yeah during the the the sexual revolution modesty norms were loosened and topless sunbathing became
00:38:05.860
common in europe francis couture azor in certain parts of the usa e.g california's beaches in the 1970s
00:38:12.420
and the 1970s new york city had topless dancing bars in in clubs and it was legal into a 1986 ban per new
00:38:20.740
york times article venues like paulo's retreat a 1970 swingers club featured open nudity among men
00:38:26.580
and women as part of the era's sexual liberation yeah and in 1964 introduction of the monokini a
00:38:32.660
topless swimsuit by designer ruby gurnich was celebrated as a feminist statement was women wearing
00:38:39.780
it publicly in los angeles in new york per a 1964 life magazine feature okay arrests were rare and often
00:38:47.300
overturned in fact at woodstock festival attendees record women going topless to the 1969 event
00:38:54.420
describing it as liberating and normal unlike today which is kind of crazy yeah but when we did it we
00:39:02.980
actually stood for something we actually stood for something i mean remember woodstock sharon we actually
00:39:08.100
yeah i mean as you and i grew up i remember a whole lot more nudity and i do i remember i know for a fact
00:39:37.540
i remember like the allure of all of this like nudist communes it's not that they don't still exist but
00:39:44.020
it's a significantly smaller well i think now it's sexualized whereas before it was more normal or like
00:39:50.100
even just families like your parents sometimes wouldn't bother to put swimsuits on you and that
00:39:55.460
my parents too and they're there are photos from like oh yeah i remember at the island like all of the
00:40:00.660
the the the bahamian kids would swim naked like yeah because well yeah because like why get your
00:40:04.980
swimsuit dirty why buy a swimsuit you know why why you know yeah it there are elements of it that make
00:40:10.820
a lot of sense and yeah it's just i think now we've become hypersensitized to sex in many ways you know
00:40:19.700
we're like oh this is a big deal which is interesting yeah i guess i never thought about the fact that really
00:40:24.980
society has become a lot more conservative in terms of clothing it's not just that so also public
00:40:34.180
like events where everyone is expected to be nude were much more common historically
00:40:38.260
a 1940s life magazine feature on women's bathhouses described nudity as practical and social
00:40:44.420
which women tried it openly while bathing well no that's still like that's still the case in onsen
00:40:50.020
in japan in in japan but not in the i've been to like as i said as a kid i went to like a naked like
00:40:56.820
hot spring in the united states and i remember feeling deeply uncomfortable and i would be very
00:41:01.300
surprised if it was still naked or not like a weird thing for it to be naked in the united states
00:41:06.820
and in japan when i've done this it's been like deeply i have not enjoyed this this culturally for me
00:41:13.700
i was raised never wanting to be naked around other men or i don't know i mean like as a kid
00:41:20.580
i guess as a when when you become a teenager right just in case you're wondering when the height of the
00:41:25.300
nude beach phenomenon was it was in the 1960s and in oral histories from the 1950s and 60s college
00:41:31.140
women cited a 2005 journal in social history recall communal showers being a routine an embarrassment rare
00:41:38.740
and and a 2015 slate essay by a woman recalling 1960s ymca swim classes described noob swimming as
00:41:45.300
mandatory and uncontroversial so nude swimming was at the ymca
00:41:54.660
then you have so that's yeah that's that's also not serious swimming because you need to streamline
00:42:02.020
your body to be a good swimmer you want like you don't want the person you're immediately
00:42:08.500
thinking of the practical concern well no it's true like you don't like you all you do as a
00:42:13.860
as a competitive swimmer to like in terms of what you're thinking about with your body is how do i
00:42:18.340
eliminate drag you're doing that with your forming you're doing that with like tight tight swimsuits
00:42:22.660
i mean like you've seen how much like modern like olympians are compared to like historic olympians and
00:42:28.420
like you know like historic olympians is like a somersault
00:42:36.820
i broke my leg and kept going yeah no it's people are it's it's amazing how athletes have just
00:42:43.220
made everything crazy the hippie community so if you look at things like california sandstone retreat
00:42:48.900
from 1968 to 1976 it encouraged open sexuality with men and women engaging in group sex and partner
00:42:54.180
sharing by the rejection of monogamous norms for 1972 to feature these communities for example by
00:43:01.300
life magazine in in 1970 estimated 2 000 u.s communes with 50 000 to 100 000 participants golly
00:43:10.020
like sex sharing communes well you know what i'd also be interested to to know from like burning man
00:43:17.620
veterans is is nudity at burning man less of a thing now because it was pervasive even when i went
00:43:24.980
in 2005 but maybe now it's just not maybe people aren't you know
00:43:36.340
walking around burning man naked anymore i wonder i think part of it's also an awareness of of skin
00:43:41.140
cancer as well though like you're covering up not just because you feel self-conscious but because
00:43:48.020
the world itself is hostile like the the male gaze is hostile the female gaze is hostile the sun is
00:43:54.500
hostile everything's just out to hurt your body so you must cover it up yeah and grok says burning man
00:44:02.980
nudity has gone down dramatically over time how does well okay grok yeah this is this is what i thought
00:44:09.700
no i can totally see that right like it starts by being super countercultural you get more people and
00:44:14.740
now it's like the new coachella yeah and now there's like you know five or you know you'll see a few nude
00:44:20.020
people a day but they're more like exhibitionists five damn what how many did you see when you were there
00:44:28.180
a lot and it was all like kids were running around naked like little wild animals and
00:44:34.740
adults and i mean the really refreshing thing about burning man when i went in 2005
00:44:40.260
or four four or five was that the naked people weren't ugly because in all the other contexts in
00:44:46.500
which i typically saw naked people it was they were exhibitionists in like you know during like pride
00:44:52.740
month in san francisco or something and quite often they were not attractive you know they were oh my god i
00:44:57.380
i remember going what was it folsom street fair i used to yeah and then you're just like you're not
00:45:02.180
typically like though like i don't know i think it pride related events the people who go naked
00:45:10.500
are not attractive for whatever i don't know if it's like the attractive ones know they can charge
00:45:14.020
no it's for cinnabites we've talked about this before okay well anyway
00:45:18.020
cinnabite lifestyle okay yeah what was unique at burning man was the naked people were on average fit
00:45:22.980
and attractive and like fine it was it was not weird it was not like creepy
00:45:27.220
it was just hey you don't have to wear clothes here so do it you know i i work close but but i
00:45:33.780
guess if we're looking for where has society become more sexually restrictive over time i think a few
00:45:39.700
areas one is areas in which men used to have to find other ways to get off or used to have a a a
00:45:47.460
larger a domain of ways to get off before online porn like before online porn was normalized
00:45:54.100
it was what were your options a freaking magazine a comic book that you you had to use my partner
00:46:01.380
and ask for rule 34 i'm gonna ask my friends hey you want to do the jack off competition
00:46:06.580
um like i think that a lot of this is just like there's other things to access now i think another
00:46:13.220
thing is is that genuinely the idea of being nude around the same gender peers has become dramatically
00:46:19.940
less normalized malcolm the idea of being around peers has become far less normalized people don't
00:46:26.900
hang out with friends physically that why be nude around them right like yeah uh so i think that
00:46:32.660
that's been a big part of what we've seen i think access to animals but also sexual restrictions
00:46:38.020
around morality have become more normalized instead of sexual restrictions for just the sake of
00:46:42.900
restriction where you you have to deal with like the consent of an animal or something like that
00:46:47.380
and again i'll never understand people be like well the animal and the cow doesn't consent
00:46:52.340
that i ate it like i i'm sure it was dramatically more concerned about that than anything else i don't
00:46:58.260
want to be seen as like arguing for this stuff because i i have no horse in this i do not
00:47:03.620
of all the things i do not yeah you're into stuff but this is not one of them this is not this stuff
00:47:10.660
but i don't so also just when it comes back to zoophilia i don't know how much people are really
00:47:14.900
into zoophilia as as they are into like i just don't have to talk with a human for this
00:47:21.460
that's what a lot of them say it's they don't have to do with judgment like it's not that they
00:47:24.900
would like to have a lot of this trend of like white but now we've read real dolls we have we have
00:47:29.460
fleshlights and real dolls and i feel like they were the original fleshlights and real dolls now we
00:47:34.740
just now we have the large dogs are the real dogs for for progressive white women there were specific
00:47:41.620
breeds they weren't necessarily they were larger dogs like she like remember she'd like paw choice
00:47:47.620
she's like well you got to be careful about the claws and like oh god i love how much it stresses you
00:47:57.140
it burned into my i'd like i don't know why why we looked into that there are some really interesting
00:48:04.980
topics to explore because we always view our grandparents generation as being like these moral
00:48:11.860
saints and i'm like you know like 40 of men participated in circle jerks of that generation
00:48:17.220
like they were not the the moral paragons we see them of today i don't know though like the the the
00:48:23.780
competition element may turns it for me into good clean fun well making fun of your body
00:48:30.020
well i guess what i'm saying is when i say deviance in their own they were deviance in their own ways
00:48:35.780
but they were wholesome was in their own communities because yeah so to me like in in the age of king
00:48:42.260
louis the no no marie antoinette sorry i'm mixing up my my eras the the court the french court was very
00:48:48.340
young and one thing that they did to amuse themselves was have farting contests on who could
00:48:54.420
best imitate the sound of like a fine trumpet and i think this is like i'm putting these things in
00:48:59.860
the same category of just like body humor and people being bored i think it's like a key party
00:49:05.860
is very different it's turning to specifically sex as as entertainment so yeah i don't know
00:49:16.820
i found all this fascinating to go into because it's something that i hadn't considered well debauched
00:49:21.860
the past used to be well and this this definitely slots in to people's recognition that gen z and gen
00:49:28.500
alpha are quite in in many ways showing signs of extreme prudishness if not at least religious
00:49:35.860
conservatism well no like it's a combination of sexlessness religious conservatism and prudishness
00:49:43.620
but i think there's a big difference between being a full synabite which some people of this
00:49:48.100
generation are just like absolute like anything goes i'm gonna die dedicate my entire life to arousal and
00:49:55.300
self-validation except here's the thing no if you are more fully pushing toward hedonistic pleasure
00:50:02.420
in our age you are not going to pursue sex because sex exposes you to potential rejection
00:50:08.500
it exposes you to potential physical discomfort it has logistical complications that involves a lot
00:50:13.780
of tedium a huge amount of tedium from the hedonists they they end up becoming lewd tubers we did the
00:50:18.500
antevalence episode where we like discussed the life of a synabite somebody who went down this path
00:50:24.260
and and and she has eventually withdrawn from public life and just does online stuff because she has too
00:50:30.580
much rejection well and and because yeah the most hedonistic choice now involves zero sex it is it is
00:50:37.220
not the most hedonistic choice so i think really in the future sex is going to be a self-identity based
00:50:44.500
thing it's not going to be for pleasure no i agree i agree as we get these ai worlds these vi avatars
00:50:51.060
etc vr avatars i think that that people who are seduced by a lifestyle of hedonism are always going
00:50:56.820
to have better options and sex will be like a a diligent thing that's done between like granola
00:51:02.580
husband and wives to have yes yeah no and you know it's so funny because the one of the catchphrases
00:51:08.820
of nor sadiki the founder of orchid which does polygenic risk or selection is sex is for fun ivf
00:51:16.100
is for babies or something like that right like just like that kind of distinguishing future trend
00:51:21.780
but yeah sex is for fun is out like we've already passed that we are in a post-sex age and i don't
00:51:27.220
think people realize i i didn't realize until we had this conversation just how far into that we were
00:51:33.060
that we are no longer we as kids like a billion years ago because we're so freaking old didn't
00:51:39.300
even use the shared shower locker rooms of our high schools that's crazy it's it's wild to think about
00:51:47.300
where society is going but i think it's better i i think a society where sex is a duty as it was
00:51:53.540
historically is better than a society where sex is an indulgence you said duty for for both men and
00:52:00.820
women because they always know that anything else they could do is is it's going to be more arousing
00:52:04.980
than sex because they got the vr environment with anyone they want you know no i know you can like
00:52:09.460
yeah no matter if you're male or female there is there is some tech-driven solution that will
00:52:15.540
be better at optimizing for physical hedonic pleasure well i think that cultures that can't do
00:52:20.900
this recontextualization are going to go extinct cultures is still trying to tell people as we saw with
00:52:26.980
with many cultures in our own generation a lot of these questions are like well if you wait for
00:52:29.940
marriage it's going to be better and then they were like wait this isn't better this sucks
00:52:34.260
sex isn't that good why why why did i build this up because that's the thing you were supposed to be
00:52:38.820
doing it was supposed to be doing you you live a life to sacrifice for the next generation well and
00:52:43.460
i think other religions though like one of our favorite ex-mormon influencers bemoans the extent to
00:52:49.780
which the lds church communicated to young women that sex wasn't going to be pleasurable if anything
00:52:55.860
it was going to be painful and here are things to prepare for that to communicate to young women
00:53:01.540
i don't disagree with you but what i'm saying is that like i don't think it it has even been a
00:53:07.700
pervasive sexual strategy of of christian denominations or or religious denominations to
00:53:15.060
say that sex is is for pleasure i i think that you know for most people it's just like there's been a
00:53:20.580
recent thing where where some christians have tried to catch up with the secular world by being
00:53:25.620
do it our way it's better and it's no come on it's a duty yeah um and it's now it's an unnecessary
00:53:32.660
duty it's so fun when our sons ask us like where did i come from like i've i've explained this to them
00:53:40.660
like i've had conversations with our kids when they like ask us like you know like well okay so
00:53:45.620
you know this is how you know animals and some humans make other humans mommy and daddy took parts
00:53:52.580
of them using medical science and had technicians in a lab combine them and i like show them videos of
00:53:59.220
like embryologists like they're like god did for jesus yes because we know it's joseph sperm otherwise
00:54:05.940
he wouldn't be the messiah because the messiah had to come from the divinic line so we know that god is an
00:54:10.420
ivf doctor it's just so cool though like i i would have been so much more comfortable as a kid
00:54:15.300
thinking that i was the result of my parents really working very hard to create me and using
00:54:22.020
scientists and using testing and making sure i had every best chance instead of like oh i got drunk
00:54:28.980
one night and like you know well i know right like love shot so dinner tonight we're getting close to
00:54:34.820
the end here yeah it's you're gonna have to wait because it's gonna take me a while to make all that
00:54:39.300
you do in penang well that's what you wanted right of course it's what i wanted but if you
00:54:44.100
want to do something faster or reheat something tonight that's also okay do we have the german
00:54:49.620
journalist coming tomorrow because i can do a big penane batch when he's here yeah he'd like that i
00:54:54.580
did that for the journalist okay when is he coming is he coming tomorrow tomorrow it's wednesday tomorrow
00:54:58.980
yes oh my gosh time flies okay so yeah sorry i was just checking my calendar so then tonight
00:55:05.300
i can do would you like to do the mango curry or would you like to do yeah reheat the mango curry
00:55:13.620
and put in some pineapple yeah okay i think that that's the appropriate that is the correct answer
00:55:19.460
i saw in comments from yesterday's or the today's episode that ran they're just like just say what
00:55:26.100
you're having for dinner what are you having for dinner oh we didn't do it what we're having for
00:55:29.940
dinner they need that at the end it's it's i mean it's an incomplete episode when we do not discuss
00:55:35.060
because we do typically two episodes a day and then we split them up to try to make them work on
00:55:39.220
on you know multiple days so we're only doing the dinner conversation once for the two episodes uh
00:55:46.740
i'm sorry i'm so sorry you guys you didn't get to hear what i'm having for dinner
00:55:52.260
but it's so sweet come on we we live in this world where people don't talk about your mango curry was
00:55:57.300
really good by the way but you probably want to add a few of the red eye the tie yeah absolutely
00:56:04.100
yeah yeah they're still pretty good yeah i'll add some of those i will add um it doesn't need coconut
00:56:11.300
milk i'll just add pineapple and we're good to go if you want to add some coconut milk i would not mind
00:56:16.580
at all because we got to get rid of that right and if you boil it down that could be nice i think i'll
00:56:20.820
be able to use it a lot of it if i make a big batch of penang curry so not double check that we have
00:56:26.420
the pudding stuff i will thank you because i'm pretty sure we never threw that out even though
00:56:30.980
it expired long ago but i don't think it's gonna go bad expiration dates are a scam it's a conspiracy
00:56:38.020
it no it's it's it is a conspiracy i agree 100 percent in most cases stuff every every eight years
00:56:48.020
you say that and yet you only expired things and i just eat my way through them and i'm super
00:56:51.700
okay with that because she eats expired milk like milk does expire my stomach is made out of
00:56:58.260
like steel i feel nothing i'm like no we are actually like ravenous like the backwoods
00:57:04.900
monsters like you're you eating like active fire fire i am always shocked i'm like if society
00:57:11.940
understood like what you and i actually are biologically they'd be like oh they can mimic
00:57:22.660
yeah you can tell it when you see our children playing out you know it's like wild raccoons and
00:57:26.900
they're like oh that's what you are no i i see i see i see the kid who we like will send to take
00:57:33.460
care of them like running from them and then like the oldest will like jump on him and then the rest
00:57:37.860
pounce on him as he falls over i feel so bad yeah that's pretty funny though i'm like oh no it's a
00:57:45.700
gang it's a gang at collins going after him it's just how they show love it's just yeah anyway not it's
00:57:52.980
how they troll people they understand i see in our kids titan especially she always starts it
00:57:59.620
love you too well so so you remember how i pointed out that that one of our podcast listeners was
00:58:07.380
telling me like oh the it was the legalization of gay marriage that caused all of this dei and
00:58:14.660
trans stuff to explode and the the catholic community saw it coming and that's one of the
00:58:19.860
big reasons that makes no sense and i was like that can't be like i don't understand gay marriage has
00:58:25.620
nothing to do with trans rights and actually the legalization of gay marriage did a lot to
00:58:30.740
undermine the lgbt movement because it split off the real lgbt from the crazy ones so yeah and i i
00:58:38.180
mean i see that too but i'm just like i don't see how suddenly the legalization of gay marriage could
00:58:42.660
lead to all these other things but she pointed out and suddenly i was like oh this sounds credible
00:58:49.460
if you're a non-profit who's who has raised millions of dollars to legalize gay marriage in
00:58:55.380
the united states and then gay marriage in the united states is legalized what do you do the day
00:59:01.700
after it's legalized you just like okay closing shop we're all done here that's the thing we have
00:59:08.020
to shut down these organizations now you know this is why you know i have such antipathy towards these
00:59:13.380
organizations and why i think many organizations that historically served an important role in our
00:59:16.740
country need to be in yeah they need to be spun down same with the government i mean this is something
00:59:20.820
you point out in the privatist guide to governance in general is that in an ideal world organizations
00:59:26.660
wouldn't last that long they wouldn't get that big this is this is this is a bit like saying we should
00:59:30.820
be structurally racist as a society so the organizations that were built to fight structural racism you know
00:59:37.140
still had something to fight instead of the crazy dei stuff they fight for today well it's like no we
00:59:42.340
should fix structural racism so they have no reason to exist and then wind them down yeah because they that
00:59:47.300
they don't need to exist anymore but so i was like okay but did this actually happen did the non-profits
00:59:54.500
that decided that they wanted to continue to exist then switch to promoting trans rights and dei and so
01:00:03.860
i asked perplexity to do deep research on this using i mean i love that perplexity pro like a man like
01:00:10.420
premium ai services are great and indeed after the legalization of gay marriage in the united states in
01:00:16.580
2015 many non-profits and advocacy organizations had that had focused on marriage equality shifted
01:00:22.500
their attention and resources to a range of other pressing issues affecting the lgbtq plus community
01:00:29.380
so they they really did switch to one anti-discrimination protections two transgender rights three youth
01:00:36.980
support and mental health see how that went like making it a big thing racial and economic justice
01:00:42.500
elder support which okay i'm fine with hiv aids and health activity and community buildings so they
01:00:48.180
also gave a table of example organizations and their evolving missions so lambda legal went from
01:00:54.660
marriage litigation and then after the the legalization of gay marriage focused on anti-discrimination
01:01:01.140
transgender rights healthcare immigration and police misconduct which all became very divisive issues in the united
01:01:07.620
states during this period the national center for transgender equality went from policy advocacy
01:01:13.540
to legal recognition healthcare access and fighting for anti-trans healthcare legislation free drugs to
01:01:20.580
transition the trevor project shifted from youth crisis intervention to expanded mental health services
01:01:25.940
suicide prevention and advocacy for inclusive therapy inclusive school policies is what they call it
01:01:32.180
sage went from elder advocacy to continued support for lgbtq rights fighting age-related discrimination
01:01:38.340
and the equality federation went from state level advocacy to ending conversion therapy protecting
01:01:42.980
gender affirming and reproductive care and anti-discrimination laws so it does seem that after gay marriage was
01:01:49.460
legalized that their attention was then just redirected to more extreme things which we would associate you know
01:01:57.220
including youth mental health focus which of course comes from a good place but ultimately we argue
01:02:02.900
to make things a lot worse conversion therapy yeah yeah i mean one yeah like isolates people from
01:02:08.420
not not conversion into gayness conversion into transness this is this is what this thing is and you you
01:02:13.140
can't talk someone into being gay but you can't talk them into being trans
01:02:15.700
okay you want you want to try that titan go ahead you can eat it all because i don't need it anymore
01:02:26.580
yeah you don't want to eat any of your cotton candy right tell me do you like it bunny
01:02:32.100
yeah so you can eat it all yay i can eat it yeah look at your big blue cloud of cotton candy
01:02:40.900
yeah take a bite of it is it yummy yeah take a bite