Based Camp - The Dangers of ＂Pop＂ Religion (Girl Defined Case Study)

00:00:00.000 when they're protecting their kids you're not just protecting your kids from you know if you're in a

00:00:05.160 conservative religious family you're not just protecting your kids from these these secular

00:00:09.380 influences right you also need to watch out for pop christianity the people who come in it was

00:00:15.640 their live laugh love signs and well you know what i'm talking about right um they they are just and

00:00:25.380 they can be just as negatively seductive of your kids expectations as any other group which then

00:00:30.860 leads them to turn against the family would you like to know more hell hello simone so i walked in

00:00:38.000 on my wife see when she's working she likes to listen to stuff in the background and one of the

00:00:44.380 things that she loves to listen to is drama she loves to listen to progressive like far progressive

00:00:52.300 youtubers comment on conservative youtubers or conservative personalities in negative ways

00:01:00.540 because she i guess fantasizes about one day they pick up us and then well the part of me i i want

00:01:06.220 to preemptively understand how people will critically view our lifestyle and choices and stances i think

00:01:14.040 it's helpful to understand that and i saw one that really interested me because it was on people who

00:01:19.760 even i used to be aware of as girl defined girl defined yeah i was like oh i remember these guys

00:01:25.540 these were the hot young people who were all about you know chastity and waiting till marriage for a guy

00:01:29.580 and everything like that and and and you know the sexualization of young women and how to fight

00:01:34.200 against that and a lot of those were messages that you know actually resonated with me a lot yeah i mean

00:01:40.060 they were they were fundy christians and and i identify with fundy christianness you know

00:01:45.640 fighting back against the the man in society today because they're definitely not the group in power

00:01:50.820 right now but you know when i was younger as a lot i was consuming their their video as well from like

00:01:55.880 early secular atheist youtube because that was like the big thing on youtube the atheist whatever

00:02:00.460 debate and they were always ragging on girl defined so i also got their perspective from that end

00:02:04.640 back then and people didn't really seem to have anything on them not not that that i thought was super

00:02:09.120 back in the day you mean yeah back in the day it was just how very dare they yeah encourage

00:02:14.560 chastity very dare you say women should live by conservative values so anyway this documentary

00:02:21.020 we'll post it here because they go into like enormous depths their lives got sad like really sad when i

00:02:27.880 when i follow when you follow what happened to them afterwards and they got sad in a way that i

00:02:33.880 wouldn't have predicted but in hindsight makes perfect sense and it really highlights a problem

00:02:42.440 you know a lot of people when they look at what we're doing and they're like well you can just go

00:02:47.200 back to the old ways of doing things right and that will protect you because that used to work

00:02:52.200 but unfortunately we are dealing with mimetic viruses that are even specialized that spreading was in

00:02:57.800 churches now and the secular world can twist norms that you don't realize in a in a way where you don't

00:03:07.220 realize your norms have been twisted and so you think you're following a traditional conservative way

00:03:12.020 of doing things but really your view of the world and what you should be aiming for has become

00:03:19.040 so twisted that when you apply this old way to this new world everything begins to fall apart

00:03:26.320 and this is what we saw happen with them and it was desperately sad to watch we could have the

00:03:33.560 crumbs just the bare crumbs of of love and intimacy for both of us and then just be like pretending like

00:03:42.120 that that that that's that's great so the first thing i would say is the one who's still really on

00:03:48.140 on media and stuff like that her marriage just seems to be both terrible let's let's be clear so

00:03:54.980 there girl defined started out is basically two sisters who then subsequently got married and

00:03:59.740 then subsequently adopted slash had kids the the the sister that he is referring to is bethany beal

00:04:05.820 yeah well and so they in one scene they were talking about with her husband they were joking that they

00:04:11.780 get in five fights a day but like they don't fight that much you know we only have like a couple fights

00:04:19.260 a day right that's just for people who are like trying to like metric how many fights you should

00:04:25.280 be getting in with your partner how many a year do you think we get in simone we don't get in fights

00:04:31.700 i i can't see many i i try to shirk out of doing something that we all collectively need to do for the

00:04:36.460 greater good and then get mad at myself and then you you know obviously are like the angel in my shoulder

00:04:42.180 and then you know yeah i might scold you be like simone you know you need to do this yeah and i guess

00:04:47.220 people could say that looks like a fight but it's more just like me being a coward yeah i i mean that

00:04:55.040 does happen but i'd say that we don't really have like fight fights at all and they would be having

00:05:01.200 five a day and they both look like like they have animosity of each other some tension where they talk

00:05:07.740 about each other they seem to have genuine animosity towards their partner but i think

00:05:12.900 this is one of the reasons why people love to hate watch girl defined associated videos in the

00:05:17.060 beginning like at first people would hate watch because it seemed like the two sisters really hated

00:05:20.720 each other um and and now you hate watch because you seem it seems like bethany and her husband

00:05:25.640 just the question is if she's following conservative values how did she end up because these values

00:05:32.000 existed for a long time to build strong relationships right how did she end up in such a brittle

00:05:37.240 and weak relationship how did she end up with all of this animosity if she was following the rule

00:05:43.060 book you know and she made sacrifices to follow the rule book the other thing you see is she went from

00:05:47.600 this you know women shouldn't have to work things to now everything's a side hustle you know because

00:05:52.460 she felt unfulfilled this was another area where she began to like go back and i actually don't think

00:05:57.140 that this this is due to a different problem so we'll get to it and then the final thing that you

00:06:00.480 keep noticing throughout all of this is she and this actually does great and highlighting with the real

00:06:06.340 problem and where she really failed was she spent her entire youth preaching to people that if you

00:06:14.660 wait for marriage until having sex like this whole chastity thing if you don't sexualize women you can

00:06:21.220 achieve better sexual satisfaction than even you can if you go live life like a secular person if you go

00:06:30.420 into secular society and you do all the secular things you actually aren't enjoying sex that much

00:06:35.460 um i'll just be personally i got to a point basically four years into my marriage where i just kind of

00:06:44.420 hit a big wall of disappointment and um went to get counseling mostly mostly thinking you should get

00:06:54.420 counseling i was mostly thinking really bethany should get counseling even if i were to ask you

00:06:59.460 would say you were happy yeah i was miserable we both went and got counseling last year separately we

00:07:05.220 didn't do marriage counseling i went i so i found um which which we should yeah oh we really want to

00:07:12.100 yeah we would both really enjoy that so the exposure via bethany's talking about and herself and our

00:07:21.220 relationship uh is very exposing in that sense we're like not connecting even though we're like

00:07:27.620 going through the motions and we need help with that and so i never claimed to be a expert i am

00:07:34.020 very open that we're learning and growing and that's why i'm constantly recommending resources and

00:07:38.900 pointing you to people that i trust that i've learned from that he's learned from yeah in other words

00:07:43.060 like the the true amazing sex experience is through like the sacrament of marital sex after complete

00:07:50.340 chastity leading up to it yes and this is the core of where i think you can notice something which

00:07:56.740 i'll call pop christianity but there's pop islam there's pop judaism there's pop everything yeah what

00:08:03.140 they will do is they will tell you that they can out deliver the things that progressive society

00:08:11.220 is entirely optimized around instead of telling you that you should not be optimizing around those things

00:08:18.500 so it's very clear to her is that she thought she was going to be rewarded when she got married was

00:08:22.660 this amazing sexual experience that was just going to be as good as she had built up and you're like

00:08:27.780 well we have like physically more struggles we're like not connecting even though we're like going

00:08:32.660 through the motions and we need help with that over this entire period of self-denial and then she's

00:08:38.180 talking in some videos now where like well you know it's totally normal to imagine another guy's face

00:08:42.820 on your husband while you're sleeping with him and a lot of women don't talk about this

00:08:47.060 when it comes to actual intimacy fantasizing about other men to be able to you know have a

00:08:54.420 more pleasurable experience very very common and something that's just not really talked about on

00:08:59.620 so is that something that oh no no just the other day i was like trying to imagine okay if i had to

00:09:05.620 fantasize around it's like someone who wasn't my husband who would it be and i was like oh

00:09:09.620 gross i can't i like literally can't but i mean yeah for context yeah she like seemed to be under

00:09:16.260 the impression first that waiting for marriage would would make this really amazing the the what

00:09:20.900 basically backfired with this culture is by by selling this message that actually made this she

00:09:28.020 could otherwise be much more religiously aligned with religious values person obsessed with progressive

00:09:33.940 values obsessed with hedonistic sex and this is demonstrated through we understand that this is an

00:09:38.420 obsession of hers and this was a big deal for her um because now she sells courses on intimacy on

00:09:45.060 sexuality both to post-marriage and pre-marriage women all about it now by the way but yeah she's

00:09:52.100 always in the early days was talking about how unsexually satisfied she was and that that they

00:09:56.980 didn't have good sexual relationship with her and her partner yeah that that shouldn't from our

00:10:02.180 perspective even from our weird christian secular christian culture we know that sex doesn't matter in

00:10:08.020 a marriage it it it doesn't not if you're living by a traditional value system there's more important

00:10:13.380 things in life than sex but because she bought into this and you see this across with with these pop

00:10:19.380 religions they will tell whatever secular society says it can offer you it will say that my religion

00:10:24.820 can actually offer it to you better you see this with muslims that are like actually islam is super

00:10:29.620 feminist and if you join islam you can be even more empowered than you can be in secular society and

00:10:36.740 it's like oh sister you are not doing islam right that is that is very pop islam or you know christianity

00:10:43.380 is actually all about sexual hedonism and if you do christianity right you can be the most hedonistic

00:10:49.780 sexy freak in the world yeah or just or just fun yeah all sorts of stuff that like great okay so now

00:10:55.220 you've just oriented people you've made them obsessed with something that isn't related to

00:10:59.460 the religious values at all and they're not going to be happy well and you see this with and this is

00:11:04.820 the problem i've definitely seen within the fundy community is feminist mindsets begun creeping in

00:11:11.460 and normalizing themselves where they begin to see it not as men and women are different and we have

00:11:19.860 different roles in the church but they begin to see it as everyone's role is just sort of glorify the

00:11:26.900 the woman women in power is intrinsically good and that this can be really toxic for these communities

00:11:35.620 when they then try to structure their relationships now you can have cultural groups where women and men

00:11:43.380 are treated as if they aren't different at all and have exactly equal roles in a marriage right

00:11:47.540 right but you can't do that and then follow the old rules of a cultural group where men and women

00:11:54.420 were meant to be treated systemically differently yeah whether that's islam or christianity and when

00:12:00.180 you do that you begin to get all sorts of conflicts in the relationship because the reason why this

00:12:07.060 traditional model of relationship now it's not the model we use for a relationship but it is a traditional

00:12:11.700 model of relationship worked is because the woman saw her role as unquestionably trying to make the

00:12:18.100 man happy as possible but when you go to a relationship where you have fundamental relationship

00:12:23.620 structures and now the woman sees her role is trying to make her own life as happy as possible and

00:12:27.940 fulfilling as possible and then the guy independently is trying to make his own life as happy as independent

00:12:32.820 as possible yeah and you're gonna get inevitable conflict between those two individuals yeah

00:12:37.540 because it is impossible that their goals are 100 aligned meanwhile they're completely ignoring

00:12:42.340 serving god well no i think they're trying to serve god in their own way and i think one of the most

00:12:46.580 toxic things that you will ever see we have repeatedly seen this in modern relationships is a girl goes

00:12:52.500 oh actually i do serve the guy in every aspect of my relationship except when god tells me not to

00:13:00.180 it is so that's convenient so whenever you don't feel like it basically you know that's it's a very

00:13:07.220 easy sort of that's that's people no that's people living hedonistic lives where they try to tell

00:13:13.140 themselves that they're serving god when clearly god is a front for their personal desires that's

00:13:18.660 that i don't think that counts well well it's very common in yeah that's common but that's that's

00:13:24.260 yeah it's it's also a lie traditional structure would be the the the within this extreme conservative

00:13:29.700 version of christianity is the woman spends her life every day asking how can i make the man happier

00:13:34.580 and the man spends his life every day asking how can i make god happier yeah more successful she's

00:13:38.820 saying how can i help my man improve be more successful be better better fulfill his role was

00:13:44.580 in god's plan and then the man is asking how can i better fulfill my role was in god's plan

00:13:49.700 but this fell apart they just thought i follow these traditional rules like no sex until marriage

00:13:54.820 and then i get rewarded with all of these progressive goodies all of these secular goodies

00:13:59.940 that the secular world is out there eating when you should have known that those goodies didn't

00:14:05.380 matter and this this causes enormous pain long term in these communities and the question is well what

00:14:14.340 do you do when you see this it's you have to tell yourself one of two things either we're actually

00:14:19.380 going to stick with the old ways of doing things or when we reform one thing we have to reform other

00:14:25.220 things you know if we're now saying we're optimizing around sexual pleasure well then maybe you don't

00:14:30.980 wait until marriage to have sex anymore because that's not what you're offering anymore and there's

00:14:35.700 religious communities that do all sorts of weird sex stuff so you can go join them and they can still

00:14:39.780 be you know weird and conservative in other ways be little sex cults you know this is a classic

00:14:45.380 thing that actually in the united states throughout the u.s history many uh christian groups have done

00:14:49.620 which is there's one famous one i'm trying to remember a guy who tried to assassinate the

00:14:53.380 president got kicked out of it because he joined thinking he'd get all this sex and then nobody

00:14:57.780 wanted to have sex with him and then he got angry at them and so they kicked him out okay

00:15:02.340 even if you join a sex cult if you're a difficult person you'll still be kicked out of you

00:15:07.300 but anyway gotta be a team player is you know something that's existed for a long time so you

00:15:11.220 could go that route or you could say well sex doesn't matter and then say okay so we're not

00:15:14.500 re-optimizing around that if you do decide that it's important that men and women are exactly

00:15:18.900 equal in the relationship and that each well i don't think any relationship can be happy where

00:15:23.780 each individual is optimizing for their own hedonism any relationship where both individuals are

00:15:27.940 optimizing for their own hedonism will almost always come to a hit because we're optimizing for

00:15:33.460 fundamentally different things from each other well i think that the more importantly too when when

00:15:38.260 you feel like your culture is being threatened because maybe what's going on here right is that like

00:15:41.860 these fundamentalist christian groups and cultures and subcultures are seeing their youth really be

00:15:48.820 attracted to mainstream culture to sexual activity and you know before marriage all this stuff that

00:15:53.860 like they're really worried about so that you know their temptation and what many of them done is just

00:15:58.100 said oh we will do it better we'll do it better but i think what they should instead be doing is

00:16:01.700 saying here's why this is empty here's where this is going to leave you you know here's what you should

00:16:06.260 really be carrying about caring about because i think when you look at other communities that have done it

00:16:10.260 really right you know you look at amish people they're not like selling to their kids yeah we're

00:16:14.580 gonna you know give you even more instant gratification and entertainment than social

00:16:18.500 media can give you like that's that's obviously not what they're doing you know like when they're

00:16:22.260 going out and doing from springer they're not like yeah hey i i go back to being an amish because

00:16:26.500 the sex is going to be better yeah exactly why they'd be like that's the most ridiculous reason to

00:16:32.100 join our community yeah yeah so i think that's that's the important thing is don't

00:16:36.340 don't don't try to play in the terms of your enemy show why your enemy's terms are are are

00:16:42.980 suboptimal in some way will lead to emptiness and point out how trivial these things that they're

00:16:47.860 offering are yeah it comes to something where a lot of people you know i think calvinist culture did a

00:16:52.180 lot of things wrong that led to its downfall okay one thing that i do not think that it did wrong

00:16:58.420 and it's something that people likely notice with our podcasts and see as very non-traditional

00:17:01.860 conservative from their mindset but as traditional calvinist is its obsession with sex and and

00:17:06.900 sexuality so if you look historically so you could read about this in albion seed a great book that

00:17:14.260 up until the 20th century many traditional like early pilgrim texts had to be censored

00:17:19.460 because they talked about sex so vividly so much and so frequently they they talked about this

00:17:25.700 all the time now it was within their rules if you look at our guests on the show like other

00:17:30.340 people who are secular calvinists or from calvinist culture that you might know aila is a famous one

00:17:34.980 grew up in a calvinist family calvinist being obsessed with sex is just like a historic thing

00:17:38.820 that was really common in calvinist culture but the question is it wasn't the point it was obsessed with

00:17:43.860 sexuality it was obsessed with sexuality because through dataizing it through researching it like

00:17:52.020 it's a thing it loses what makes it magical it loses what makes it special and different it's just

00:17:59.140 another in a set of human emotions which are all tugging at you in negative ways you know as we

00:18:05.780 say a core aspect of both our former secular calvinism and traditional calvinism calvinist cultures not

00:18:11.940 this weird you know theatrical cosplay as calvinist today is that positive and negative emotional

00:18:18.820 subsets are both of around equal value and are both a negative value yeah you can be just as misled to

00:18:25.780 do bad things with your lives with positive emotions as you can be led to do negative things

00:18:31.460 with your life through negative emotions and through studying like looking at these things so up close

00:18:38.420 they can become demystified now of course yeah it's it and it has for us you know within our relationship

00:18:45.700 and i think a lot of people can see this we might talk about sex a lot but we also don't really care

00:18:49.460 about sex at all in terms of sex of the act we find it more of a fascinating curiosity than something

00:18:57.540 that is desirable to us and and a lot of people like oh they said sex isn't like a big focus of their

00:19:05.860 marriage that must mean they're having marriage problems or something and it's no you shouldn't care

00:19:10.180 about these things like we're trying to say i'll give you the typical like sexy scenario like we we

00:19:15.860 each look at each other and we're like oh my god and then we're like we have so many more important

00:19:20.260 things to do and we like quickly walk into the other room but what else could we get done in 30

00:19:24.180 minutes yeah that's we have we have things we care about more but we also you know yeah you you can

00:19:30.980 care about things and and still be attracted to each other but a better shit to do than you know bang

00:19:36.580 each other yeah yeah well and i mean i i'd actually say if you can throw away 30 minutes in a week that

00:19:43.220 easily like you could probably be doing a lot more with your life yeah i'm having sex every day

00:19:47.940 how do you have time don't you have like intellectual stuff to be working on no because like genuinely

00:19:53.060 people don't people mostly i would say at our level of education income our like cultural subset are

00:19:59.860 nihilists and they don't actually care about doing much with their lives they may pretend that they do

00:20:05.140 because it makes them look good but in practice you know the it's just aesthetic you know they're like

00:20:11.300 their non-profit work or something you know or they're you know whatever it's it's just part

00:20:15.940 of the narrative that helps them look good and feel good whatever rather than believing that society is

00:20:21.140 literally crumbling around them and they are desperately trying to do everything they can

00:20:24.900 to save as many people as possible yeah well i think many people don't believe they can do anything

00:20:28.660 so why would they try we'll talk about an external locus of control and that's another thing that's

00:20:34.420 useful from a cultural perspective is believing that you can save all of this yeah and and what i

00:20:40.180 was just providing there when i was talking about the calvinist relationship to sexuality is that is

00:20:44.420 one way that you can defang sexuality unfortunately it led to calvinist having very few kids after a

00:20:50.980 period or after like so so you might not want to defang it too much you know but that's that's that's

00:20:57.380 one way that you can relate to it so the point being is that when you are going to chase like the

00:21:03.220 way you're keeping kids in your church is by saying we can do a secular culture can do but better

00:21:07.140 you've already lost and you need to find techniques and mechanisms that can show them

00:21:14.660 and i think you know the amish do this so well that what secular culture claims to offer is actually

00:21:20.660 quite hollow yeah yeah i don't think it's it's hard to point that out either i mean you can yeah you

00:21:26.260 can point to rates of mental health of physical health you know in secular cultures and be like

00:21:30.820 look this is really not working for them like they may act as though they're living happy lives

00:21:35.860 and yet the vast majority of them have severe anxiety problems are seeing therapists are on

00:21:40.100 medication no they're actually not happy this is performative and it's very easy to see that very

00:21:45.300 quickly we do i mean how could we do like a rumspringa for our kids because as we say like one of the

00:21:50.180 highest bleed rate cultures in the world right now are the the mormons one of the lowest is the the

00:21:54.820 amish the way that they handle sort of useful rebellion are almost polar opposites of each other well

00:22:00.180 and i think the key thing about rumspringa is that it's there so what's happening in the

00:22:04.820 fundamentalist religion in in which the the girl-defined family was raised was one in which

00:22:11.780 you you never get to try there was no experience of kissing anyone before marriage you don't get to

00:22:16.900 do these things there is no exposure there's no option and i think allowing people to have some

00:22:22.980 exposure to the hollowness of other cultures while also constantly like dismissing it throughout you know

00:22:29.940 like sort of shaming it and dismissing it like contextualizing it negatively within your within

00:22:33.780 your culture you know to be like we don't respect that but then allowing people to try it at the same

00:22:37.860 time i think is a really perfect one-two punch and i think that's kind of what warm spring it does i

00:22:42.020 mean they're the amish i don't think grow up glorifying the english i think that they grow up being like

00:22:49.620 you know whatever like they're off doing what they do and that but you still it's not forbidden you

00:22:54.020 know i think forbidding things is also you know it's not going to go well especially for adolescents

00:22:59.540 what but am i missing something here i i think it's that simple no i i yeah i think contextualizing

00:23:05.940 why you don't do these things and the why needs to be within your cultural value set not that through

00:23:11.700 not doing these things you can actually achieve what they achieve but more of it yeah which is really

00:23:16.980 important yeah it's to have some goal that is more important than the goals that secular society has

00:23:24.100 so you say secular society is doing all of this to feel good but your goal is more important than

00:23:29.300 that it is to please god it is to do what is right by the highest power in the universe you know if you're

00:23:33.460 a fundy if you're us it's to save society and create a flourishing future for humanity your life

00:23:40.500 doesn't matter you know our book like one of our closest thing we have other than the practice of

00:23:45.300 this guy to crafting religion to house bible is the martyrdom of man and it's a book that we'll do

00:23:50.420 an episode on eventually but the core message of the book is man exists as a martyr for future man every

00:23:59.220 generation before us lived a life that was unconscionably difficult compared to the life that we get to live

00:24:09.460 and they martyred themselves for our generation as it is our duty to martyr ourselves for the next

00:24:16.100 generation that humanity is a cycle of intergenerationally improving martyrdom and that

00:24:24.580 that is our duty in life to create something better and that that we sacrifice ourselves to do that and that is

00:24:33.860 what uplifts us whereas when we don't sacrifice ourselves when we take advantage of the pile of

00:24:41.700 martyr corpses out there the fate has a way of punishing us one of the things that we point out

00:24:49.700 which is so interesting is if you look at the anti-natalist movement specifically the negative

00:24:54.660 utilitarian anti-natalists who are just like life is suffering etc these are almost always people who

00:25:00.100 have gone through very little genuine suffering in their lives and they'll say oh i'm depressed or

00:25:04.500 whatever but it's the type of suffering that's brought upon themselves by by their own way yeah

00:25:10.660 and they interestingly they try to live the most hedonistic lives possible because they think that

00:25:16.020 suffering and matters and that happiness matters and so they're completely focused on this and then

00:25:21.860 you look at us who are like ah the things that cause suffering and happiness that's just the random

00:25:25.700 shit that if our ancestors felt them they would have more surviving offspring it doesn't matter it's

00:25:31.140 irrelevant and yet you look across the prenatalist movement and they're some of the happiest

00:25:35.620 intellectuals you'll know which is so weird that this group of intellectuals that like genuinely doesn't

00:25:41.460 care about this shit if they get rewarded with it but it's important that they not do it

00:25:49.300 martyr themselves they don't focus on sacrificing themselves to improve things in the future

00:25:55.300 for the happiness it gives you that's just a nice side effect the moment you start chasing it the

00:26:01.300 moment you start saying this happiness matters rather than just a weird reward that we're being

00:26:07.220 given in this moment is the moment everything begins to fall off the rails and i think that's

00:26:11.620 probably true about sexuality was in these chaste relationships as well if you go into these

00:26:16.020 relationships focused on trying to be as sexy and kinky and engaged in sexuality as possible

00:26:22.340 your cup will never be full but if you go into it saying every time i sexually engage with my

00:26:28.580 partner i am doing it in service of the lord and in service of having kids and in service of fulfilling

00:26:33.460 my purpose or or making them happy then you will be rewarded with sexual satisfaction but you can't

00:26:40.580 go into it for the satisfaction you can't say that this was part of the point all along

00:26:46.020 i mean it's weird that our biology works that way but it does but i think this is true for

00:26:51.540 across humanity and it's a it's a great little positive thing but i'd also encourage people to

00:26:55.380 look at the other perinatal if you've seen the other perinatalists they're like weirdly happy people

00:26:59.620 and it is odd or go on the anti-natalist subreddit or the ephilism subreddit if you want to see some

00:27:06.980 world depressed people yeah i haven't really seen any cheerful even just generally i haven't seen any

00:27:13.940 cheerful negative utilitarians to be honest with you well i i don't think they exist i think

00:27:19.140 negative utilitarianism intrinsically is living for hedonism it might be negative hedonism but it's

00:27:24.020 still hedonism and it hedonism never pays off ever it is always going to be a drain on the individual

00:27:32.580 soul i think this is one of those cruel twists of human biology which is so long as you seek happiness

00:27:40.420 and hedonism you will never have it but when you are not seeking it it becomes remarkably easy to

00:27:47.460 find and your life can become inundated with it the problem is is that people who are living

00:27:53.460 lifestyles like us conservative christian lifestyles they will tell other people about that and other

00:27:57.940 people will see that in their lives but then these other people wanting happiness try to mimic their

00:28:03.700 lives in order to achieve the happiness instead of understanding that happiness is a byproduct

00:28:10.420 of efficaciously living your value system and achieving things that you think have real meaning

00:28:16.420 in the world well i also think like a big a big element of like genuine happiness weirdly is like

00:28:22.660 faking it until you make it like acting happy and then you find out that you're happy and i think if you

00:28:27.860 like are a purist about happiness you're like no i have to actually feel happy and say you'll never

00:28:33.540 you'll never fake it maybe i don't know that's really true yeah i mean we really take culturally

00:28:38.100 the perspective of even if we're not feeling happy we should be acting happy because acting unhappy or

00:28:43.940 looking unhappy can hurt the efficaciousness of other individuals around us by making them unhappy

00:28:49.460 you know why would we do that why would i be looking unhappy when i know that hurts my wife

00:28:54.100 and kids why would i and interestingly when you're approaching every day of course i have to be happy

00:28:58.660 because it's not a choice like it's it's part of being efficacious which is what really matters

00:29:03.140 you end up feeling that way after a while just throughout all the time or a lot of the time which

00:29:08.820 is weird yeah and it is probably i mean i genuinely do think that both of us feel really happy i think

00:29:13.940 a lot of it starts with being committed to looking happy yeah no no yeah it starts with looking happy

00:29:20.020 but we're not looking happy because of some external validation that gets us we're looking

00:29:24.100 happy in pursuit of our our goals it's the most efficacious way to pursue a conversation people

00:29:29.620 like why do you start conversations so high energy and it's well that way i can ensure that i'm coming

00:29:34.500 off like pleasant to be around they're like why don't you be your authentic self why would i be my

00:29:39.060 authentic self if it's inefficient it doesn't help me in my goals we're literally running from

00:29:44.420 velociraptors right now what i mean by that is society is crumbling right now we don't have

00:29:49.860 long you don't get to fuck around not this generation and and i don't think any generation

00:29:55.300 really gets to fuck around that's the point of the martyrdom of man is this intergenerational

00:30:00.020 cycle of improvement which we all get rewarded for in the end anyway i love you so much simone this is a

00:30:09.780 very fun topic for me because it was so interesting to see somebody that you know i had sort of grown up

00:30:15.700 tangentially knowing who was doing a lot of the things that i think many conservatives today think

00:30:20.740 that okay if i just do these things i'm going to get rewarded right and they're missing the point

00:30:26.020 and they need to when they're protecting their kids you're not just protecting your kids from you

00:30:31.220 know if you're in a conservative religious family you're not just protecting your kids from these these

00:30:36.020 secular influences right you also need to watch out for pop christianity the people who come in

00:30:42.340 it was their live laugh love signs and well you know what i'm talking about right

00:30:50.180 they they are just and they can be just as negatively seductive of your kids expectations

00:30:56.500 as any other group which then leads them to turn against the family and one of the really

00:31:00.100 crazy things if you do end up watching this this video about the girl to find girls

00:31:04.180 because in one point you see their their brother talking yeah this is from the i think they had

00:31:08.820 that this is a family of nine kids it's a lot they had a big family yeah just for people who don't

00:31:13.620 know everything that he's saying is really clearly an implanted memory yeah but anyway yeah her her

00:31:19.140 brother he's shame memory i've ever seen he believes that his family like abused him and raped him and

00:31:24.180 stuff and i asked him i was like what did you think of that scene she's in playing in memory i was

00:31:27.860 like yeah i'm playing in memory if you look you don't remember this stuff at age 35 when you're

00:31:33.940 washing the dishes and you're asked your wife asks you if you were ever abused at some point

00:31:38.500 yeah yeah that's like classic you you might have forgetting before remembering of the phenomenon

00:31:43.300 where you mentioned this in a different context and then you think you've forgotten it

00:31:46.420 but this sort of memory suppression doesn't really happen that way it doesn't randomly come up when

00:31:51.220 you're in a context where all of a sudden you'll be validated for feeling it and and it will gain

00:31:55.700 you emotional points and then he's like clearly using it to justify being abusive to his wife

00:32:01.860 he's like you should have these enormous bouncing i i i think the two girl defined girls are trying

00:32:06.100 their best given the cards they are he seems like a toxic human being

00:32:13.380 you know i like to think everyone's acting in good faith and doing the best they can with the

00:32:17.780 information they have no no i yeah i do think so but sometimes you can be implanted with like

00:32:23.060 pretty toxic that your family abused you when they didn't you know and this stuff is pretty messed up you

00:32:30.260 know when that happens to an individual so i would encourage people we might do another video on

00:32:34.420 implanted memories because it is a really common debt thing in today's society and it's worth people

00:32:39.060 knowing the warning signs yeah the biggest one is somebody remembers something that gets them

00:32:43.700 validation usually between 31 and like 42 and usually was in a caring context usually either with a spouse

00:32:53.700 a good friend or a therapist and they've never spoken about anything like it before and no one else remembers

00:32:59.460 it anyway scary stuff but yeah well anyway i'm glad we does anyone think we hate each other i don't

00:33:07.700 think so they're always like why are if you're married why are you in separate rooms yeah i like

00:33:11.780 to wake up like two or one a.m why would i wake my wife up with that i gotta yeah oh and if you're

00:33:16.020 married why don't you record in the same room i can't i can't think when i'm in a room with another

00:33:20.340 human period so yeah i don't think anyone thinks we hate each other they think we're the same person

00:33:26.900 which i guess is a sign that maybe we clearly love each other just the same way that someone

00:33:31.140 narcissistically loves himself so cool well i love you saman and i hope that other people can avoid

00:33:38.660 the mistakes that they made because they they made a lot of sacrifices in their views that turned out

00:33:45.540 to not play out the way that they had hoped they did and being honest with young people about what they

00:33:51.220 really get from following these traditional cultures will do a better job of making sure

00:33:56.100 they stay within them instead of burning out so i'll make i'll make one final plug though waiting to

00:34:01.460 do stuff isn't necessarily a terrible thing like i didn't have sex until i met you it was awesome and

00:34:08.500 you know like it's okay i didn't drink until i met you it was awesome like drinking for the first time

00:34:14.180 after college like it's cool to have some things to still look forward to to like still experiment with

00:34:19.860 so i'm also not against waiting for a lot of stuff i waited for a long time for a lot of stuff not

00:34:25.460 because i really wanted that stuff and was denying myself i guess mostly out of disinterest but still

00:34:30.340 it's so nice to discover things later so you know we're not saying that that's a bad thing um

00:34:36.500 most of the stuff just isn't that good that's the core problem like sex is not that good like oh

00:34:42.180 there's people who say wow that means you're not doing no i did a lot of sex you did all this it

00:34:47.940 is it is not that good it is it is a sign it is only good in so far as it is a game that is fun to

00:34:54.580 win and it gives you status in our society well i think you and i also like we have come to view

00:34:59.300 physical pleasure differently like we we were having this conversation the other day where we're like

00:35:03.220 can you remember what you actually felt the last time you felt something pleasurable like either

00:35:09.460 tasting really yummy food or felt like when i think back to those memories i'm always thinking

00:35:14.580 about this is good or i want more of it but i'm never like experiencing that you can't easily recall

00:35:21.540 that emotion like yeah when people are like oh what was the best moments of your life they describe

00:35:26.580 narrative moments like the birth of my kid but yeah you're actually in those moments usually pretty

00:35:30.180 like pretty uncomfortable yeah you're in like a poorly lit room that's gross looking if you're the

00:35:35.460 woman you're probably in inactive pain or at least deeply uncomfortable yeah yeah i i think that that

00:35:41.860 we cannot easily capture memories of emotional states yeah yeah so anyway fun stuff love you bye

Based Camp - October 25, 2023

The Dangers of ＂Pop＂ Religion (Girl Defined Case Study)

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