The Death of Woke： Stats on Declining Wokeism
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the decline of woke culture and what that means for the future of the culture, and what the future looks like for racism, homophobia, and transphobia. We discuss wokeness, racism, and sexism.
Transcript
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hello simone i am excited to be here with you today a long time ago a south park episode came
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out where they predicted how long woke culture was going to last it was season 19 episode one
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and it was called stunning and brave and at the end of the episode a farmer is predicting
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the course of woke culture going forwards and he says we have dealt with this before
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and based on the last time we had a rise in wokeness which the last time we had it it was called
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the pc movement or the politically correct movement which was such a thing who are born
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long after this movement if you want to see a humor that was lambasting it as a movement a very good
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movie to watch and i think fairly entertaining is called pcu which is about the deaths of fraternity
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culture and it being replaced with various activist groups within college campuses it's a whole new
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ball game on campus these days and they call it pc pc politically correct and it's not just politics
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it's everything it's what you eat it's what you wear and it's what you say if you don't watch yourself
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you can get in a buttload of trouble for instance you see these girls yeah no you don't those are
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women you call them girls and they'll pop your figs save the whales gays in the military now
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what those women those aren't women tom those are womenists
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you know i saw the new madonna video this night
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see the one in the middle the one with the blonde hair yeah she's looking at me isn't she
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kind of what would you know or something hey sam isn't that the guy that you used to uh
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yeah you went out with a white male i was a freshman fresh person please please go talk to her what's
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the problem watch this he's coming over here sister from the wall
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no you don't have to do that hi how you doing uh is sam in there in there what's that supposed to
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mean yeah cock man oppressor oh thank you you know this place is kind of insane wait till you meet
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the cause heads the what what don't we eat red meat why don't we eat it
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what don't we eat red meat why don't we eat it these tom are your cause heads they find a world
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threatening issue and stick with it for about a week what's up what up what happened the ozone layer
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it was last week now it's meat but then that had a push back to it and it died for a while and then
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wokeism came and so south park i think made the educated prediction that these cycles last about
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six years and then we had about 5.9 left however that episode came out in 2015 so we're about four
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years late on that prediction if this brings me to a question is wokeness just another cycle like a
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pendulum that moves back in force over the course of history or is wokeness something totally new
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that will only grow or will become more like a subset or religious community within our society
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have we seen peak wokeness already okay and if we have seen peak wokeness what does the future look
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like and i will be going over a lot of statistics in this episode a lot of them drawing from a blog
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by david rizzuto where he wrote an article titled is the great awokening really winding down and i will
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come to a conclusion that i think is different than the one he'll come to would you like to know more
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and i'll just summarize the conclusion i'm going to come to which is i do think that wokeness is past
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peak in terms of general population popularity however i think that it's structured very differently
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than old systems of political correctness um and that we are essentially going to see wokeness
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intensify and exaggerate its effects within large bureaucratic bodies and become more and more
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obviously a unique and differential basically moral cosmological framework that will be seen
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increasingly like a religion of the elite in our society and then the rest of us will feel very
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similar to what it would have felt like being a non-catholic and living under say a catholic monarchy
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historically okay yeah i can totally see that a but we'll get to why this will happen and the
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statistics so i sent you the article simona if you want to pull it up yeah i have it in front of me right
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now the first graph in the article which is term frequency in popular u.s newspapers for the terms
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racist and racism and what we can see is that there was a huge peak in these terms around 2021
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near the beginning of that and since then it's been declining precipitously it's not back to base
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level again yet specifically in the new york times the los angeles times washington post and the wall
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street journal and then if you look at you broaden these words so uh they have other graphs here
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that i'll show on the screen one includes sexism sexist and misogyny on this one you do not see as
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much a decline which is interesting it basically plateaued at an extremely high level and is slowly
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going down homophobia and homophobic has basically just been going up over time which is
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really interesting yeah transphobia and transphobic have been exploding it looks like it's only just
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getting started which is weird because talking with the trans maxing community they implied that
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they felt like we were already post peak trans so that's interesting you can watch our episode on the
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how the trans movement changed in 2024 which i think that we are within the general population
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but not within the elite religious caste that rules our society and controls most of the media but that's
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what this is looking at is media representations of these so if we look at terms of islamophobia and
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islamophobic they have declined precipitously and anti-semitism and anti-semitic declined precipitously
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and have shot up recently although here's my take wellness so if we just talk about racism for example
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i don't know how much it has to do with concern about racism actually decreasing part of me thinks a lot
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of it has to do with the fact that anyone who wouldn't completely tout the anti-racist line in
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mainstream media has already been purged by those initial spikes so there simply isn't anything in
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those main spheres that can be discussed it's basically already been burnt the the executions
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have been made the books have been burnt there's nothing left to comment i don't know if that's true
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really you can look at the rise of the commenting on homophobia and homophobic and who's actually
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homophobic these days like it's one of the things that i i think that yeah they've expunged from
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their organizations all of the people who aren't of their religious community but the uh that doesn't
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mean and by the way just so people understand why i'm saying like it's a religious community because
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this is a wider framework that probably requires some explanation they'll be like no they'll say they're
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catholic or they're muslim and i've explained before that they actually have beliefs around marriage
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structure sexuality our relationship to the environment morality what the future of our species
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should be what happens after death that is much more in common with each other than with their
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traditional religious structures they just are allowed to identify with whatever they want but it is
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really one cosmological and moral framework that draws its evidence and let's say strongest evidence
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from science and it's clearly not you can look at the way it reacts to something like new research on
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trans individuals and if it doesn't fall into the narrative then it must be debunked frequently
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you'll point out certain ethnic groups commit crime at higher rates and other ethnic groups
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and they're like that isn't true and i'm like it's clearly true looking at the statistics and they're
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like yeah but it's not true based on science or something right and so what are they claiming because
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clearly it's not like science it's something else that they're claiming they're making another claim
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here and the claim that they are making is based on a if it's not from factual reality but it is shared
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across this cultural group as a just a truism of reality it's a religious claim the theological and so
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that's why i'm calling it like a shadow religion that sort of exists and is spreading go to they then
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show more graphs here that i'll put on stage in turn that show the frequency within u.s news outlets
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and uk news outlets and i don't think that these graphs show what he thinks they're showing in this
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piece which is a decline instead what i see if you actually look at the graphs is a shift in terms of
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the thing that they are currently most freaked out about racism didn't move to homophobia now it's
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moved to transphobia and before racism it was islamophobia but now you're getting more misogyny
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it's becoming a hot trend and so i think it cycles through items to care about one of the charts that
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always stuck with me the most was it was a graph of blm type reporting in media overlaid with united
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states election dates oh dear we all just an up lead up to elections so another thing that i think
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i'm going to predict is any trends that we are seeing downwards in terms of wokeness right now
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are going to start being reversed during this election cycle interesting and stuff like that
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do you have any thoughts before we go further i'm very curious to see how the election cycle plays
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out in terms of woke concepts in the media that's a very fun thing to be looking at given the u.s
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election cycle that is uh impending yeah so here's another interesting graph where what they did is
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they took an average min-max frequencies of terms related to prejudice and positive social justice
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discourse so there's two ways you can talk about social justice positively with words like racial
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equality social justice diversity equity inclusion inclusiveness fairness etc safe space awareness and then
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there's negative terms like racism racist sexism sexist misogyny homophobia etc and what is that these
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two actually rose at about the same rate but we are seeing slightly more of a decline in negative terms but they
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still seem really correlated and i doubt this would meet a margin of error here which is pretty interesting
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now i'm going to go to another graph that i don't have shared with you which looks at the frequency of
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the terms this one was shared by eric kaufman so in the first of these two graphs what is the frequency
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this is from the data from the stanford tv news database and you see the frequency of words like
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diversity equity harm racism sexism white privilege and what you see here is the cycle what i was talking
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about a rise in the term racism then a drop in the term racism but with everything else it's pretty standard
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over time yeah yeah if you just take out racism it really seems like they've always been pretty big
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but what you do see less of is actual cancellations happening so here you look at five different
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databases of cancel culture instance is incidents from college fix nas and fire you see them rising and
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then falling after 2021 and you actually can see this as well if you go to fire's own website which
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is really interesting so do you have thoughts on this before we go further yeah i would want to see
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the basis for cancel culture incidents because cancellation has come to mean so many things we
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have friends who are like oh i was canceled last night it was just because people didn't take a comment
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they said really well so i would just want to understand what this means well here i can show
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you exactly what it means and i am putting in here another graph now this graph looks at students
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on whatsapp students reported reluctance to discuss specific topics and it goes over the years 2019 2020
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2021 and 2022 and what's really interesting is over most of these graphs 2022 is the lowest year
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other than 2019 um except for politics that's the one where you don't see much so that's really
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interesting to me so you are actually seeing an on-the-ground difference and here's another
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example and i'm going to read this quote that i thought was really i don't know that when you look
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at non-controversial topics it looks like it you know it goes up in 2020 it seems like people just
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weren't willing to talk about anything and and part of this i like that as a control because it could
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suggest a wider oh yeah and you see this in younger generations as well also millennials and above
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people who do not want to express anything even mildly controversial publicly or even anything any
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opinion they just don't want to say anything and maybe that again means that there's not so much
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cancellation as we think people just don't want to be judged and are cowards yeah here's an interesting
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one because you're also talking about what does it mean so this is from the scholars under fire
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database of 2000 to 2022 and so this shows how they felt discussing this shows specific incidents
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so either a targeting incident of a teacher a petition any sanctions or a termination of a teacher for
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being not woke enough and you see there with a huge spike in 2021 and then a rapid decrease
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now we're not back to baseline yet but it is actually really interesting what's also interesting
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is how big the type the the spike was in targeting incidents yeah but don't you think again that
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scholars have just come wise to this so those who would get removed i have been removed and those who
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remain those who survived the initial purge have learned how to avoid what's interesting is a lot of
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things that get them purged are things that happened long time ago the nick bostrom institute at oxford
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got shut down recently who did i'm pretty sure yeah and i'm pretty sure that was over the humanities
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futures this is like the core ea thing and i'm pretty sure it was over some perceived racist comments he
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said a long time ago that came out ages ago and recently there was a campaign around him we're still
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seeing it happen and i will read to you something that i thought was really interesting so this is a quote
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from one of the articles i was reading on this for instance the new york times was recently targeted
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by glad in an open letter signed by dozens of celebrities and quote-unquote thought leaders
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primarily for publishing stories about transgender issues that included perspectives of people who did
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not simply celebrate and affirm progressive activists preferred narratives yet rather than issuing
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an apology and promising to quote-unquote do better firing benching or reassigning the reporters and editors
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who produced the stories and slash or issuing editorial changes to help the paper conform with
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activist preferences downstream which had been their playbook in the past the paper responded quote
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we received the open letter delivered by glad and welcome their feedback we understand how glad and
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the co-signers of the letters see our coverage but at the same time we recognize that glad's advocacy
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mission and the times journalistic mission are different our journalism strives to explore
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integrate and reflect the experiences ideas and debates in society to help readers understand them
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our reporting did just that and we're proud of it contemporaneously hundreds of the current and
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former new york times contributors penned a separate open letter demanding a greater conformance with
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progressive activists preferred narratives to which the paper responded even more forcefully quote
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it is not unusual for outside groups to critique our coverage or to rally supporters to influence our
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journalism in this case however member or members of staff and contributors to the times join the
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effort the protest letter included direct attacks on several colleagues signaling them out by name
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participation in such a campaign is against the letter and spirit of our essex policy we do not welcome
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and will not tolerate participation by times journalists in protest organized by advocacy groups or attacks
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on colleagues in a social media in social media or other public forums i would never have expected the
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new york times wrote that well that shows a major perspective and the u.k which is endorsed by the nhs
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yeah the major perspective yeah that is major they shut down a specific transgender clinics that were
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targeting teens and preteens being shut down in the uk to me shows a major shift in the public sentiment
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around this actually it was interesting to me that i was reflecting on the dave chapelle trans joke that
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got him in so much trouble yeah for people who don't remember it was like a bunch of different activists who
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represent the different marginalized groups like gays lesbians trans and stuff like that are in a car
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and the other ones are like the trans person keeps asking to stop and use the restroom and the other
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ones are like why did we even bring this person along but they've been with us forever so we're
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going to keep them in and that was like a fairly mild joke and yet he tried to get super canceled for
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it and i was reflecting on if that joke had come out today and people try to get the the special taken
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down on that inside people was in netflix tried to get it taken down and do petitions if that joke was
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done today no one would bat an eye like i think society has really changed in the way it
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reacts to this stuff and what was interesting is netflix also did a big thing of firings after
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that and got rid of a lot of the people who participated in that stuff which people were
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absolutely having aneurysms about so i want to hear your thoughts before i give mine
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you're starting to change my mind with this this is not data that i expected to see and i missed a lot of
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these developments so now i'm starting to wonder gosh are things actually changing but then i'm also just
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thinking about how institutionally solidified these general ideologies are and i think still i i have
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this intuition that so much of this is merely happening because it's it has been they've won
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they've taken over once you've taken over you don't need to keep using these buzzwords because
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the problems are no longer being manifested per their opinion in their new reformed organizations
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so i have a different read of what's going on and it's actually been heavily colored by
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both what i see happening with the trans pushback and what i have seen happening
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with the gamer gate 2 like the reaction to sweet baby but keep in mind in in the earlier graphs that
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you highlighted transphobia was in the middle of a rising spike that is yet to abate so and i think
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that it is but keep in mind that this is what's being published by newspapers the gamer gate 2 if
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you look at sales figures it's basically been completely successful every game that these
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studios worked with these institutions on that were meant to like wokeify the games is either bombing
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or going to bomb they're basically dead on launch which shows in mass consumers are not interested in
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these products anymore which makes it very dangerous for organizations to now collude with or work
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with um outsource dei which were successful in doing so i feel like as tired as the phrase go woke
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broke goes i never was under the impression that that games movies shows books etc that decided to pursue
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this in an active way to the extent that they would pay for it were ultimately commercially successful
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no before we knew about sweet baby inc and stuff like that games that they worked on god of war
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ragnarok did pretty well commercially oh really okay so there are instances of go woke and do okay
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yeah they were doing okay like they were seen as like corporate trash but they did okay and now
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they are not keep in mind the bud light backlash that happened for example which was fairly effective
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and i think did a fairly good job of scaring organizations about those types of partnerships
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in the future but here's what i think happened and where i will agree with you i think was in the
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mainstream population of the u.s right like the plebs they're firmly anti-woken and they actually view
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it as a threat and they will actually effectively boycott products that are caught engaging in it like
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the target boycotts were fairly effective if you see the way that they changed their status on this
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but within the large bureaucratic organizations they are true blue to the core woke and they don't need
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to generate money in the way that small businesses do so small businesses can't really afford to do
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anything woke anymore right but if you're a large corporation like microsoft which produces a lot of
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games they've been doubling down on their woke initiatives nintendo has been increasing its woke
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initiatives and that is because these organizations are so large and have so much inertia behind them
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that their decisions can are not going to be as affected by market pressures and so if you have a
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viral memetic subset which is good at replicating itself within the organization um it doesn't matter that
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it is hurting the organization's efficiency it's just going to continue to grow um like a cult basically
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um and as you say as they have been doing in places like the media and stuff like that expelling anyone
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who speaks up and i will point out here all this is coming at the same time as media like traditional
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media newspapers everything like that are doing worse and worse nobody's reading this stuff yeah and
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the question is like why don't they change why don't they stop if no one's reading why did it take
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kotaku so long before they finally said okay if you're not writing articles about games we're getting rid of
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you because they've been ossified by these organizational cancers to the extent that they are incurable right
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yeah that's my read that's my read of what happened that makes sense and then the question is
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then what ends up happening uh so there's a few potential futures one is that they really
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consolidate themselves within the top of our society it's been shown that this sort of religious
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group doesn't believe that people who are in it deserve the same human rights as people who are in
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it and they'll even strip them of their like ethnic identity if a black person disagrees with them
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they'll say you're not really black or if a gay person disagrees with it they're like you're not really
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gay like you you keep seeing this right or you're not really trans whatever so they don't really see
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the people within the group as it's not that they're denying that these people are same-sex
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attracted it's they're denying that they're human it's not that they're denying the melanin or
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heritage of these people they're denying that they're human that's why they don't count as a
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black person anymore by this group stand they're a black enemy instead you're saying they don't see
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them as having independent thought anymore they believe everyone who doesn't agree with them
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they're very narrow range of thought and again to the south part clip of the gods like you you'd be a
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rebel by doing everything we do everyone's just walking around like a bunch of conformists
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they're all zombies racing to their graves just an excuse for my mom to bitch at me for not wearing
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girly clothes like all the other britney spears wannabes they're all a bunch of nazi conformist
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cheerleaders if you want to be one of the non-conformists all you have to do is dress just like us and
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listen to the same music we do shallow life doesn't have true independent thought and therefore cannot be
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seen as a source of information and this level of dehumanization extends to voting and they really
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don't care if for example if the u.s electorate wanted to regularly elect people like trump
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they would take the position that we just shouldn't have free elections in the u.s anymore because the
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electorate doesn't know what's best for it and this is something that and if people are like guffawing at
00:24:35.180
us like we go to new york dinner parties for wealthy people fairly frequently this is not an insane thing to
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say that if the majority of this country was regularly electing people like trump that we should not respect
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their votes and we should just install other people in power if you want to talk about things like
00:24:53.060
whatever like voter fraud or something like that whether or not it happened is less important than
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that there is the will to make it happen if things persistently went in a different direction than the
00:25:05.920
power players in our society today um and we know that these individuals are very involved in
00:25:12.120
organizations like the cia and the fbi due to the leaks that happen around trump's presidential cycle
00:25:16.780
where you have people in these organizations which basically have very little government oversight
00:25:20.840
saying if you're saying functionally how could this happen saying it is a national security threat
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to allow one of the presidential candidates to be allowed to be elected right if you're thinking
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that there's no way anyone would ever act on that even if they didn't act on it last time
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eventually they're going to act on it if they feel like especially if this other group is growing
00:25:40.220
in terms of their voice and they're going to become increasingly aggressive for example if you look at
00:25:45.860
something like the school system i really don't think it's salvageable at this point i think
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they're going to become increasingly aggressive at how they round the wagons with the university system
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as a pipeline for cultists who are going into these old bureaucratic institutions meanwhile the portion
00:26:02.940
of society that is economically productive is going to begin to split from them yeah
00:26:08.540
which is interesting and so then what happens either they end up losing power just because they lose
00:26:15.240
so much economic productivity and they become so comical and so obviously like a cult that the rest
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of the world is just like yeah we're not really engaging with you you can go off and do your own
00:26:25.160
thing or they do consolidate positions of power within certain countries no i don't think it'll be
00:26:30.380
every country but i can easily see it happening within some countries in europe for example
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could happen in the united states but i think it's a little less likely that it'll happen in the united
00:26:40.840
states and i think if they make a play which i think they did do in the last presidential cycle
00:26:45.860
with media and stuff like that where you could say even if they didn't directly influence votes they
00:26:53.280
definitely had a sustained media campaign that was based on a fabricated reality and if you don't
00:27:01.660
believe this fabricated reality you can look at something like the trump hillary election where they
00:27:05.700
basically said it was impossible for trump to win electorally this would be a main position so much
00:27:11.040
that there were articles when nate silver said he had the five percent chance to call for nate silver
00:27:16.140
to be fired from his own organization for being such a bad poller and clearly republicantly biased and
00:27:23.220
people made this call because they were just reporting what all the other media was saying which was
00:27:28.900
a fabrication a statistical fabrication and this is one of these things where i get worried because i think
00:27:36.580
if they overplay their hand then the other side will play their hand and there's been people who talk
00:27:41.900
about oh this could lead to a civil war some sort of like unrest within the united states i don't think
00:27:47.640
it will go that far but i do think it will lead to institutions forming that take the way our democracy
00:27:56.840
is supposed to work much less seriously this could be things like stacking the supreme court this could
00:28:03.480
be things which the left mused doing already just completely ignoring the way our system is supposed
00:28:09.880
to work and striking the supreme court um like mainstream figures in the left were calling for this
00:28:15.260
okay that but hasn't the right been working on that for 20 years and succeeding do you understand
00:28:21.160
what i mean when i say stacking the supreme court no i don't know what you mean then oh basically they
00:28:25.940
said so we're just going to add a bunch of extra supreme court justices oh okay so like literally
00:28:30.360
changing its composition instead of overtime ensuring that in the way the system is supposed
00:28:35.820
to work where you replace one at a time literally just saying okay we control the branch of the
00:28:41.380
government right now that allow us to just put in a bunch of extra supreme court justices so we're
00:28:45.660
going to do that and everybody it was that that would be bemused is just a blatant power grab i think
00:28:55.000
at january 6th we saw that the right was open to doing something similar based on and in reaction
00:29:01.720
to what they felt were unfair election results if the left becomes more blatant i think we saw at january
00:29:09.180
6th that there was the will among the base of the right to take action there are enough people in
00:29:16.180
government like people were like why didn't people in government like stand up to them more there are
00:29:19.600
enough people within police forces and the military who think that things have gone too far that you're
00:29:26.680
not going to get a coordinated response to them and i think that this is a really key thing that people
00:29:31.340
are i don't think in the u.s we would ever have our police forces or the military um go against
00:29:39.300
the federal government or legal things within the united states we'd never have a coup or anything like
00:29:44.540
that but when you get a large mob of very angry people who believe that an election was unfairly
00:29:51.580
taken from them um and we have seen that the right is capable of generating this right um if the mob is
00:29:58.480
large enough you need either a military or a police force that will shoot at them when they're told to
00:30:03.900
okay and i do not think that our military or police force would do that at scale and that means that
00:30:11.040
you will not have the organized resistance against something like that which is very interesting to
00:30:17.540
me and it is also interesting to me that the two bureaucracies that the far left most needs if they
00:30:24.340
really shit the bed are the two that are the most right-leaning the military and the police force
00:30:30.400
that's comforting i also think it's important to point out that any dominance that woke may
00:30:37.780
ultimately secure in mainstream government and really large organizations is short-lived
00:30:45.440
due to demographical apps that there just won't be a population to support this over time but we're
00:30:51.620
talking not within our lifetimes or even our kids lifetime so it's still relevant to us that this
00:30:55.900
yeah i'm thinking like the next 10 20 years yeah um so i like think this is where we are that the
00:31:02.080
non-wokeism is the mainstream among the consumer base but among the elite in our society it is being
00:31:08.580
increasingly collapsed in under a church or cult-like organization that that controls our society in
00:31:15.900
the same way that historically when the for example in the ottoman empire they ruled a lot of non-muslim
00:31:21.360
people but it was a muslim monarchy and i think that's where we're heading it reminds me a lot of
00:31:26.200
how many older at least not just european all over the place civilizations were with this elite that
00:31:33.700
was completely memetically unmoored from the commoners i guess there was a short-lived period
00:31:41.840
in which there was a little bit more alignment maybe because in the united states there wasn't as
00:31:48.700
strict of a class divide to begin with just because things were still being formed but
00:31:54.260
i don't know it it doesn't seem unusual for there to be this bifurcation and these different realities
00:32:01.940
that people live by yeah so whatever people are going to have their own little communities they're
00:32:08.360
not going to understand each other and there will be conflict resulting from that but nothing new
00:32:12.800
and we've made it through before so we can make it through again i love you to death simone and i am so
00:32:18.700
glad to be married to someone as sane as you a rare breed and it's funny i think many people
00:32:27.460
they hear us call each other saying they're like you two are not saying i don't know well we're both
00:32:31.680
in the same way which means that just like with all the other groups that have fractured from reality
00:32:37.780
we fractured in the same direction meaning that at least we're on each other's page which is good
00:32:42.960
i love you so much love you too all right keeping you waiting oh you're such a sweetheart but you
00:32:51.840
are making a human being after all simone safe the human being has been made and printed well i know
00:33:00.020
but you're keeping her safe and i can't do every time you leave me with her for a little bit i'm like
00:33:04.440
i'm gonna kill this thing i'm gonna do something wrong i'm gonna pick it up wrong
00:33:07.820
you can't even support a pad answer they feel super super delicate and it's all right just switch
00:33:22.760
it's not plugged in now i can hear woohoo all right all right i am i shared in the comments for most of
00:33:34.600
the graphs that we're gonna go over come from thank you so i can take a look
00:33:39.600
and we're gonna go over graphs which will be in this and we're gonna go over david rosato i'm not
00:33:46.860
familiar with him cool i'm excited this is gonna be good it's not like that right of a post either which
00:34:00.360
very nice all right you're ready for me to get started let's do it