Based Camp - The Ethics of Not Showing Kids On The Internet

00:00:00.000 claiming there are no ethical issues here no i'm very clearly not i'm saying there are ethical

00:00:05.260 issues but what people on the other side of this argument are pretending which is just

00:00:10.380 false and a lie is that there are no potential upsides for the kid from this what i'm doing is

00:00:19.080 i am contrasting the upsides with the downsides that they have the environment to start their

00:00:26.720 lives with decent sized social media followings within wealthy intellectual circles the doors

00:00:35.640 that is going to open for them and this is something that we also haven't talked enough about in society

00:00:40.480 is social media followings and the ability to translate these into high value relationships

00:00:47.720 if we live in a future in which society's current vetting systems are bankrupt and don't work

00:00:53.920 anymore the only way that you can really build trust and have people expect you to deliver on

00:00:59.060 what you promise is if they feel like they know you and can trust you and you're predictable

00:01:02.680 because trust lies in predictability and the only way that they can know that is if they have some

00:01:06.960 kind of access to your thought process or they have a parasocial relationship with you and the only way

00:01:12.540 to do that is if you have a very open and transparent media history and we want to have kids whose lives

00:01:17.760 matter if you are afraid of people making fun of you online your life won't matter yeah because you

00:01:26.600 can't do anything publicly and it's very hard to change the world if you don't do things publicly

00:01:32.340 would you like to know more hello everyone i am excited to be here with you today today we are going

00:01:38.040 to be talking about the ethics of putting children in media and the considerations that need to go into this

00:01:47.220 because a lot of people might look at what we are doing we are a very public family we are in the news

00:01:52.100 all the time these days which is funny because our channel is medium-sized but not really

00:01:57.660 correlatory to how publicly famous we are getting but again just this last week in like the big

00:02:03.760 three-page front-page piece in the guardian and then a bunch of follow-up pieces to that and then

00:02:10.020 trending and so people are like wow your kids are in all of these like in the vice documentary right

00:02:14.620 this little baby right here is in the media because she is in this shot yeah and i watch a

00:02:22.880 lot of snark online a lot of the snark there's a big theme in people criticizing parents who include

00:02:28.380 their children in tiktok and instagram and youtube posts etc and whenever they include clips that they're

00:02:36.800 criticizing they blur out the poor baby's faces because they've been included in the shot and even when

00:02:42.080 they're trying to critique the video they themselves do not want to repeat the crime of putting a child's

00:02:47.800 face online which to a certain extent i understand the basics of where they're coming from for example

00:02:52.920 on google photos which uses facial recognition it is able to recognize the faces of baby versions of

00:03:00.440 very old people like it is very good at continuous face facial recognition so it's not oh it's a it's

00:03:06.320 them as a baby no one will know that this was them oh actually they will there is no not parsing that

00:03:12.440 but also you and i've been talking a lot about this recently this concept of privacy is such a farce

00:03:18.260 and often to a great extent trying to be more private and trying to hide is only subjective i'm

00:03:23.780 gonna push back on you here from their perspective yeah you can say that as an adult privacy is a farce

00:03:29.880 to adults okay yeah which is very hard to actually both be private and have an impact on the world

00:03:37.160 in this current world you can be private but you are sacrificing your ability to impact society by

00:03:42.560 doing that yeah however and i think that most like sane ethical systems believe some form of social

00:03:49.340 impact is a personal obligation i can see how there could be like heinous based ethical systems or like

00:03:55.280 weird ones where like your family is literally the only thing that matters but your family is going

00:04:00.560 to have to deal with downstream consequences of a society you didn't alter yeah so that's silly to

00:04:05.440 me so as an adult yeah i believe that privacy is a silly thing to strive for but you could keep our

00:04:12.780 children from appearing in any media like i could genuinely achieve that in the way that the world is

00:04:19.080 structured today so why delta okay now let's talk about the ethical position that they're arguing from

00:04:27.660 right they're saying the child did not consent being in media and therefore the child should not be 0.97

00:04:38.080 in media right which is a fairly stupid argument children do not consent to the 0.99

00:04:48.840 vast majority of parental decisions made around them they did not consent to broccoli they did not 1.00

00:04:54.380 consent to bedtime they did not consent to exact many things right so that's just stupid like the 1.00

00:05:00.840 consent argument around kids appearing in media is stupid but they would argue broccoli and bedtime 1.00

00:05:06.000 are good for you media is bad but that's their judgment and this is what we're fundamentally going 0.98

00:05:11.220 to argue by the end of this video is that i suspect that the core value source in our society going

00:05:21.560 forward especially like accreditation source with the universities collapsing as trusted sources of

00:05:29.460 accreditation because i've seen this more and more just nobody trusts the universities like they've gone

00:05:32.600 way too far on dei they've basically become these extremist cults nobody really sees them as a good source of an

00:05:39.120 individual's value anymore yeah where do people and then it's like what about like designer brands

00:05:44.780 no longer like this sort of scarcity around fancy clothes no longer has value anymore it's what is

00:05:50.200 luxury what is value today because we have now i think cross-correlated luxury with um signs of this

00:05:59.240 is somebody you should pay attention to which is the way historically used to be the guy who walked into

00:06:03.400 the village with all the beads on him and all the gold on him what he was showing is i'm someone you

00:06:07.820 should pay attention to i am someone you should well really to boil it down someone who actually has

00:06:13.900 wealth or luxury has a scarce commodity and right now branded luxury goods are not a scarce commodity a

00:06:20.120 lot of these other things prestigious university degrees are becoming less scarce as a commodity for example

00:06:26.140 there are a lot of people claiming that they have a harvard degrees because they've gone to a harvard

00:06:29.800 extension program they just stretch it a little bit and other universities have really

00:06:33.620 loosened their admission criteria right so yeah so it's scarce commodities but in this current

00:06:40.340 world order the it seems to be sorting towards the core thing of value and the core sign of competence

00:06:48.200 and the core thing that opens doors from you is subscriber count basically it's how many people are

00:06:54.660 paying attention to you in online environments please and subscribe no but i mean that very seriously

00:06:59.920 right i would say it's that or other means of proving value like i i built this thing that

00:07:07.360 created this much in wealth or i am able to turn this thing into money so you have to just prove value

00:07:14.380 or prove reach and i think reach is a sign of proven value and that's what we're looking at you can no

00:07:20.080 longer just use someone's vetting or someone's someone else's possessions to get there yeah there are i would say

00:07:26.980 it's there are other means but it's mostly proven reach if you look at what's the richest person in

00:07:32.840 the world doing with his money elon musk he's buying twitter slash x right he is buying something that

00:07:39.180 gives him control of the flow of information because that is the key thing about especially as we move

00:07:45.820 into an economy with more ai where human labor has a different value than it did in a historic context

00:07:52.800 where like human information labor is less important than human creative labor where creativity

00:07:59.660 isn't defined in the narrow sense it was historically which is to say around narrow like pictures which it

00:08:07.480 turns out were just like averages basically or art which it turned out with averages or music because

00:08:13.520 all of this was very easy for ai to replicate but nuanced conversation and interpretation

00:08:19.460 of what's going on in a global context and philosophical and cultural like the type of

00:08:26.580 information that we are providing people with or the type of entertainment we are providing people with

00:08:32.220 we loop our children into this at an early age and they come out with the large followings basically

00:08:41.240 starting their lives what people are from our perspective arguing against our kids having

00:08:47.840 right is it's almost in the last generation it's like we have prepaid for our kids to go to harvard

00:08:53.900 but they also absolutely have to go to harvard and you can say what if your kids don't want to go to

00:08:58.920 harvard i'm like that's a possibility a lot of people in the world might not want to go to harvard

00:09:03.240 yeah but on the edge if i told the kid i didn't know if you'd want to go to harvard or not so i didn't 0.90

00:09:09.900 prepay and secure your acceptance the vast majority of people would be like fuming are you insane how dare

00:09:19.040 you deny me this opportunity that i had so set in stone for some sort of bizarre i wasn't sure if you'd want

00:09:26.620 it or not that is the way that we relate to this concept so we can look at the counters is what if your kids

00:09:33.120 don't want this right so you need to look at the actual because we're very consequentialist in our ethics

00:09:39.040 what are the actual consequences negative consequences to our kids for being in media and

00:09:46.040 stuff like that i can walk i can walk through some of that and i think this is where the nuance comes

00:09:50.240 in that people aren't willing to discuss and a lot of this is is similar to what we saw with corporal

00:09:54.280 punishment where there's a lot of people who are like under no circumstances can this thing ever be

00:09:58.420 done and then on the other end you have people who take it too far after hearing that it's okay or

00:10:04.940 thinking that it's okay and there has to be happy mediums so the top critiques that i hear when

00:10:09.800 people are criticizing this is one parents are bringing up subjects that these kids probably

00:10:16.140 really don't want to have to have their parents talking about my daughter just had her first period

00:10:21.500 now i'm picking up tampons for her and we're gonna go have the talk on how she's gonna use them 1.00

00:10:25.340 and the teenager maybe that's not something that she really wants to have heard or people talk about

00:10:30.360 with eight passengers obviously ruby frank was having conversations with her kids when her kids

00:10:35.320 were even quite openly and verbally signaling that they did not want to have those conversations

00:10:39.980 on camera so there are instances in which there's active lack of consent there are instances in which

00:10:46.220 embarrassing things are happening there are instances in which the kid is okay with it at the

00:10:50.740 time but in the future you're pretty sure like 80 to 90 percent confidence that that person is not

00:10:55.560 going to be happy to have that video content out there because it's just embarrassing and then

00:10:59.220 there's the instance or the issue of financial exploitation and already states i think like

00:11:03.220 california have legislation that require parents that are making money from content with their kids

00:11:09.100 and them have to set aside a certain amount of income for their kids but this is far from universal

00:11:13.940 legislation and i imagine that many parents that should be compensating their children for the income

00:11:19.600 that they're getting using their children are not doing so and just using their children so i want to 0.98

00:11:24.400 push against all of these points because yeah go ahead okay i'll explain why they're dumb so 0.82

00:11:28.700 first you've got to look at different age ranges and stuff like that yeah absolutely so suppose 0.63

00:11:33.660 industry the one who's in the shot right now wants to be a private person when she gets older 0.68

00:11:38.300 within no like normative or logically consistent ethical system could she be concerned that

00:11:46.540 something that she did at this age is going to be used against her as an adult like what is the effect

00:11:52.700 what about that girl who tweeted those that the hummus or but the girl who tweeted really insensitive and 1.00

00:12:01.100 very racially bad things racist things and then her father's business was completely shut down i've

00:12:08.220 forgotten his name what do you think industry is going to be tweeting anything are you out of your mind

00:12:14.080 but what i'm saying though is there are instances you need to divide by age ranges okay anything below

00:12:22.400 i'd say the age of probably about six just isn't going to affect you as an adult maybe even the age

00:12:31.520 of seven anything below the age of seven yeah i'll go seven anything below the age of seven just no one

00:12:36.240 they're like a seven year old that's probably fair yeah and they're probably not people are like

00:12:40.560 that tweeting anti and you could be like what if the kids walking around screaming racial

00:12:46.080 obscenities or something like that one more reflection of the parents than anything that's

00:12:50.400 more a reflection of the parents it's going to be a general problem anyway if they're that sort of

00:12:55.080 person when they're that young again and whether or not they're online it is not a problem that their

00:12:59.800 parents made a mistake there their parents made a mistake somewhere if that's happening okay

00:13:03.140 the point is that under the age of seven or so there's they're just not going to be held

00:13:09.000 responsible for any of their actions once they decide to become private and all of this stuff can

00:13:13.820 really be disintermediated from their adult identity so it is largely irrelevant especially when

00:13:20.960 there is a potential positive for them now we're going to deal with the tricky age okay and this is the

00:13:26.980 age you were talking about yeah this is like seven to

00:13:30.920 maybe eleven oh maybe seven to yes you're saying tween years really i thought it was like that that

00:13:40.720 sort of i would say from 13 to adulthood no i i actually don't think there's any and so we'll

00:13:46.880 take out the tween years and then we'll just jump to the next age range to explain why it's not

00:13:50.820 ethically complicated okay the sort of i'd say 11 and up so let's say 12 and all over these are

00:13:58.640 fully cognitively human things they can decline consent whenever they want they can say i don't

00:14:07.340 want to appear on film and if they say i don't want to appear on film i think it is the parents

00:14:11.620 duty to respect that and i think honestly in most cases except when you're dealing with like actual

00:14:16.680 crazy people like the eight passenger situation most parents respect that yeah if a kid says

00:14:22.240 there you say if a kid ever says no i would even say what if a five-year-old or four-year-old says

00:14:27.680 no then we don't we would never put yeah but i don't look what i would say is a four-year-old not

00:14:33.980 saying no even if they might have said no if they were more cognitive is not relevant to me because

00:14:39.020 then there's no real negative repercussions for their no one's going to judge them for the thing

00:14:43.180 that they might have said no to right right so irrelevant and then you could be like yeah but 0.98

00:14:47.700 what if a 12 or 13 year old is they they say yes but then they do something stupid like something 0.99

00:14:54.380 racist or something like overly sexually aggressive or and it's and then they have to deal with 0.97

00:14:59.160 repercussions for that when they're older just excuse me what about me when i was 20 if i did stuff

00:15:03.080 like that and then i had to deal with repercussions for it when i'm like a totally different person now

00:15:06.540 people change over time all i can do is try to inform my kids as much about the world as possible

00:15:13.380 and hope that they make good decisions the fact that they might need to if my 12 year old murders

00:15:19.040 someone are they not supposed to be long-term responsible for that be realistic people so i really

00:15:25.800 just don't see a lot of ethical consequences there like we are giving our kids the chance as fully

00:15:32.340 mentally developed beings not fully but like they're on the way to full mental development and

00:15:36.520 they have the ability to decline consent and the record the historic record is going to be judging

00:15:43.460 them with that in mind so as an example recently i saw there was somebody trying to cancel turkey top

00:15:50.120 for saying something using racial slurs when he was 15 or 16 on like twitter threads now he wasn't

00:15:56.920 public he didn't have parents who were making him public but once you're at this fully mental age and

00:16:01.900 you're in an online space this is where your argument of privacy is an illusion at that point

00:16:06.340 right um he wasn't public but he became famous later and so though things became relevant later

00:16:11.620 and most people were just like bro he was 15 chill out and nobody who matters actually cares turkey

00:16:16.860 tom isn't canceled turkey tom is a popular youtube channel who most people think positively of who are

00:16:22.640 not insane might an insane minority hate yeah but that insane minority doesn't matter like they don't have 0.90

00:16:29.860 like okay ignore the insane minority because they don't matter and they'll always find some reason 0.89

00:16:35.940 to hate you no matter what if you fit into the groups that they desire to hate so now we've got

00:16:40.860 into the do you have any counter thoughts to that it seems like you might before we get into the tween

00:16:46.040 category i guess i some i'm most i mostly agree with that i do think though that what this this means

00:16:52.380 also is that you have to do this the right way you have to educate your kids about the ramifications

00:16:57.500 of anything that they do online or frankly around any smart device or anyone who's holding a phone

00:17:03.880 because that phone could be recording but perhaps the the fact that we would have our our kids on

00:17:09.680 camera anyone who does have their kids on camera and does educate them about safety around these things

00:17:14.580 it acts as a good forcing function it gives them essentially media training at a young age for example

00:17:20.660 had the girl i'm thinking of who tweeted all these racist things been trained early and also been

00:17:25.700 exposed to media a lot earlier maybe she would have been a whole lot more savvy and wouldn't have

00:17:29.640 tweeted all those things that ultimately then destroyed probably much of her career and also

00:17:34.200 really either destroyed or really compromised her father's business which employed quite a few

00:17:40.060 extended family members as well yeah so there i think it's more just good parenting and it's just

00:17:46.100 that you're more on the hot seat for good parenting and in a way this could be positive for the kids

00:17:50.440 because again yeah only look at the negatives if we are doing a bad job as parents it is going to be

00:17:56.420 more loudly and immediately obvious at these age ranges if our kids have a public window right

00:18:02.520 now i need to look at the of our life philosophy in general and that we are willing to be subject to

00:18:09.300 criticism and we believe that's the right way is that if you're wrong you want to know that you're

00:18:13.840 wrong and so the idea that so many people are trying to hide anything that might be criticized

00:18:19.060 about their lifestyles their beliefs how they raise their kids or their kids lives that they're trying

00:18:24.280 to hide that from any potential criticism means that if they are doing something wrong they're

00:18:27.920 probably not going to correct it which is a pretty big deal and so i like that so we we get to know

00:18:34.540 a lot sooner and the public gets to know a lot sooner are we bad parents you don't have to wait

00:18:38.300 until our kids are adults to know that you'll find out pretty soon i think because we do plan to keep

00:18:42.860 our kids in the media spotlight and i do plan to with this podcast as our kids develop more

00:18:48.120 cognizance bring them into the podcast when they want to participate yeah i imagine five ten years

00:18:54.760 from now instead of me talking to simone every day some days it'll be me talking to one of the kids

00:18:59.140 or simone talking to one of the kids or two of the kids talking to each other i want this to be a

00:19:04.560 family thing that's based around their understanding of reality and their engagement with reality

00:19:10.740 because i think people would find that very interesting and i think they'd find that very

00:19:14.400 interesting as a historic record of their development of ideas and stuff like that we'd

00:19:19.640 keep it focused it wouldn't be like a normal parenting podcast i'm not interested in you guys

00:19:24.200 seeing like how awesome of a dad i am by like following me around and making sure i'm punishing

00:19:28.300 them correctly and making sure i'm doing like a lot of the parental bloggers no i can see a

00:19:32.600 secondary youtube channel that's just octavian and torsten they already have very interesting

00:19:36.140 conversations yeah i'm much more interested in the philosophical development of my kids

00:19:41.100 and their development in terms of self-narrative and how they think about reality in the world

00:19:45.760 i think that's more interesting and i think that our audience would find it pretty interesting

00:19:49.480 and i don't think i just don't see a lot of negative externalities coming from that for my kids in the

00:19:53.940 future even if they decide to be private there's a lot of child stars who are now like oh yeah i'm

00:19:58.520 private now because i decided to become private it's not like some huge scarring thing for them

00:20:03.300 unless they like got into drugs or something while they were a child star and that's even people who

00:20:07.980 i think i don't know catch a lot of heat for things typically it only goes wrong when they

00:20:13.220 strisand it when they're like oh no no one needs to know this we have to stop this right now and then

00:20:17.240 they flail a lot and then people pay even more attention so again a lot of this comes down to media

00:20:21.940 training which i think is a key theme here is that parents have to be savvy about teaching their kids

00:20:29.120 how to deal with a public life but also only doing this with consent so now we need to talk about the

00:20:36.520 ethically dubious age so this is the seven to eleven age range when kids are cognitive enough

00:20:44.080 to do things that can cause long-term repercussions for them and they are also in hierarchical social

00:20:50.600 environments where things that they do privately they may not want shared but they may not have the

00:20:57.280 ability to be able to tell their parents i don't consent to you sharing this information whether it's

00:21:02.900 or it's puberty or something like that like we would always just have a rule if you're going

00:21:06.080 through something and you just don't want us to share it just say i don't consent to you sharing

00:21:09.120 with me yeah at that age range i can understand where some concerns come in but again not really

00:21:16.920 so i'll explain why they're not really enough it's where you get this a little blurring of the slider

00:21:22.240 of but they didn't know at that age range that why would have those consequences

00:21:27.040 okay and i think that we are entering a generation where because of the consequences of doing something

00:21:35.300 like going online and yelling a bunch of racial slurs or like sexually aggressively approaching

00:21:40.040 someone can be as severe to a person's long-term like employability as them as an 11 year old taking a

00:21:48.140 knife and stabbing their little sister we need to teach them that those consequences are that severe 0.95

00:21:53.680 at a very young age and make sure that they internalize that and and it's more of a i think

00:22:00.900 people who want to keep this pure privacy at this age are more people who are just not about parental

00:22:07.040 responsibility in terms of the them teaching kids like proper social boundaries because even without us

00:22:14.480 they're on a discord or something like that and they do something insane like this is there's still

00:22:18.740 consequences for it and people can be like they chose to be on those social media channels they

00:22:23.600 chose to be on that discord or that twitter or that youtube channel it's not really all of these

00:22:28.700 things have addiction-based algorithms or those tiktoks right that have sucked them into them do they 0.65

00:22:34.440 really choose them no it's a combination of their parents and their environment and their so again i'm

00:22:41.420 just not really concerned and and this is where you get to the downside now i'm like claiming there are

00:22:46.880 no ethical issues here no i'm very clearly not i'm saying there are ethical issues but what

00:22:52.960 people on the other side of this argument are complaining or pretending which is just false

00:22:59.260 and a lie is that there are no potential upsides for the kid from this what i'm doing is i am

00:23:07.400 contrasting the upsides with the downsides and they're the probabilistic relation our kids will have

00:23:16.220 to those upsides and downsides okay so when i look at my kids um coming out of this that they have the

00:23:24.780 environment to start their lives with decent sized social media followings within wealthy intellectual

00:23:33.760 circles the doors that is going to open for them it's just so obvious to me then you go look at who's

00:23:40.960 even though the podcast is okay like we do like thousand three hundred hours a day or something at this

00:23:45.920 point we've got about 55 people watching us at any given time at this point uh day or night if you just

00:23:50.840 look at what's the average probability somebody's watching our channel and this is just on youtube and

00:23:54.660 we distribute to other channels but so this isn't a huge number but what's the demographics of this number

00:24:00.240 because we know because we interact with a lot of them it's venture capitalists it's campaign operatives

00:24:05.960 it is academics it is this channel just does not appeal to like your average person that much and

00:24:13.180 it is the type of people who one my kids can source good career opportunities from that will get them a

00:24:19.880 huge leg up in life but two and i think that this is really important that they can source partners

00:24:26.580 through and this is something that we also haven't talked enough about in society is social media

00:24:31.660 followings and the ability to translate these into high value relationships which i think is going

00:24:38.980 to be when our kids are like yeah i really appreciate that you were able to hook me up with a spouse

00:24:43.920 through this network that you spent the time to build but yeah and i want to create something that is a

00:24:49.340 clan based network or channel or something like that so that my kids right now we're trying to build it so

00:24:55.800 that we get a tv show made on our family and we're in talks with a lot of people that i can't talk about

00:25:00.560 but as we do that i want it to be like a clan based media empire right like where they are working with

00:25:07.500 each other to build up their own properties but they're also investing in any properties that we

00:25:11.700 built out so what you're saying is a lot of your interest personally in inheriting any properties we

00:25:17.640 built out in having a lot of people be aware of your behavior and philosophy and activity is it makes

00:25:24.740 more people willing to are interested in working with you and the same would happen with our kids

00:25:28.880 yeah if there's if we live in a future in which society's current vetting systems are bankrupt and

00:25:35.240 don't work anymore the only way that you can really build trust and have people expect you to deliver

00:25:40.500 on what you promise is if they feel like they know you and can trust you and you're predictable

00:25:44.360 because trust lies in predictability and the only way that they can know that is if they have some

00:25:48.660 kind of access to your thought process or they have a parasocial relationship with you and the only way

00:25:54.220 to do that is if you have a very open and transparent media history and if you can't show those receipts

00:25:58.900 and you reach out to someone and you say i want to work with you or i think we should start a business

00:26:03.960 together or please hire me they have nothing to go on so yeah when it's not just that as the economy

00:26:10.760 changes like if our kids want to start a company how do they get their customers like it's hard to get

00:26:15.460 customers right but if they have online followings it's much easier yeah how do they get how do they

00:26:20.780 get anything they want like everything gets easier for them the larger a following they have and we

00:26:27.440 have some people in our circles that are like i want to be as private as possible and it's because

00:26:31.920 they view i think negative comments about them online is like a genuinely negative thing when like

00:26:37.060 random haters don't matter like they do not matter yeah yeah there was one critique video i watched

00:26:44.620 where they showed a clip of someone filming their kid's reaction to someone like an online commenter

00:26:52.920 is snarking about their name or something and the kid looked hurt and was like why would someone say

00:26:58.340 that and they just looked genuinely like their feelings were hurt i think that is a combination of

00:27:04.480 bad media training in general but they're totally missing the point that if a kid learns early on that a bunch 0.99

00:27:10.500 of idiots online are going to say dumb things about them they're going to develop a much thicker skin 0.99

00:27:15.340 they're going to become anti-fragile and shielding a kid from mean commentary online or from criticism 1.00

00:27:22.940 that is coming really from no strong foundation it's not something to worry about they're gonna

00:27:29.060 bergen we have an episode of like it's humanity becoming the bergens from the trolls series which i

00:27:33.720 reference way too much on this show for a child's cartoon but yeah the bergens are gonna bergen they just

00:27:39.820 hate everything they're weird mutants who sit online all day yelling at people on the earlier you get 0.90

00:27:45.740 used to their commentary not mattering the better because we even know people now who after seeing the

00:27:53.600 tiniest semblance of that act as though someone has showed up their front porch with a gun pointed at them

00:27:59.900 and this is not a productive way to live and if that's what takes you out in a day if that's what

00:28:06.780 you have a freak out your life is never going to matter yeah and we want to have kids whose lives

00:28:12.560 matter if you are afraid of people making fun of you online your life won't matter yeah because you

00:28:21.380 can't do anything publicly and it's very hard to change the world in any sort of productive way

00:28:27.360 if you don't do things publicly so that's the other thing where i'm just like i don't care like it's about

00:28:31.920 training my kids to be good people not about protecting them from dealing with the consequences

00:28:37.560 of their actions no i need to help head off those actions to begin with and we live in this fragile

00:28:44.280 world right and i think that you make a great point there i'm really sad because some of the people we

00:28:49.320 know who are like oh my god like you guys are getting so famous and now it's hurting me and 0.98

00:28:53.800 because you're in the media and some idiots don't like you and it's how are you ever going to do 0.99

00:29:00.000 anything you don't disagree with my views i know you don't disagree with my views you don't disagree 1.00

00:29:05.340 with how we're trying to change the world you're just afraid of pushback so you can't do anything

00:29:11.780 even if you're competent even if you're rich you can't do anything until you are willing to allow 1.00

00:29:18.720 the world to hate you or the idiots the bergens to hate you because the truth is and you've seen this 0.99

00:29:23.920 with the whole like corporal punishment controversy where at first simone was like oh my god everybody 1.00

00:29:29.220 hates us online i gotta chill out some more there were things i was embarrassed about with that

00:29:33.760 article i was embarrassed that i had framed kevin dolan is further right than he really is he's

00:29:38.880 actually probably to the left of me he just has a public reputation as being to the right of me and

00:29:43.920 i shouldn't have done that and i was really guilty about that because i had caused somebody else

00:29:47.760 negative repercussions that they didn't need to deal with but the slap itself i was like no this is

00:29:53.360 going to turn out in our favor don't worry about it like the research agrees with it and you've seen

00:29:57.560 that now since then like everyone we know who is like a smart competent person has been like

00:30:04.600 yeah they were right to do that what or at least that this is a nuanced situation i think that's

00:30:10.860 i haven't heard that i no i literally haven't heard anything other than enthusiastic support

00:30:16.700 what do we have we got like richard hanania with enthusiastic support we recently had sarah

00:30:21.600 hater and megan dunn yeah but no but they said it's nuanced they said it's nuanced sarah hater

00:30:26.600 didn't even say that i don't think she practices corporal punishment with her own kids she just had 1.00

00:30:30.440 made one comment that like sorry i i watched the whole video she said if it's not done in anger 0.97

00:30:36.140 okay and it's not done to cause pain yeah but i that's i count that as nuanced no one's coming

00:30:41.840 up being like we're not saying that either yeah she said it is enthusiastic support was in the realm

00:30:49.220 of what actually happened yeah okay and and this is what you saw with other people who reached out

00:30:55.080 to us whether it's a god we had her on early we should have her on more often i i have an episode

00:30:59.680 of hers that i haven't done yeah diana fleshman it's on how we can stand being such lazy parents

00:31:05.340 that's the episode that haven't gone live yet oh we should do that i'll put it out she's so cool

00:31:11.420 i've got such a backload of interviews because i'm always i process the interview so much slower

00:31:16.260 than the other episodes because it causes me like emotional pain to process them because i have to

00:31:20.860 think through somebody else judging me and i often just don't really fully process the interviews i

00:31:25.680 think going forwards that's what i should plan on doing is just interviews are cut as they are

00:31:30.640 why not because i can't deal i do not like social environments and it's like reliving a social

00:31:38.900 scene whenever we do one that's why i'm so slow as i'm like to make this or hater one anyway i 0.89

00:31:45.280 absolutely love my wife you are amazing i appreciate that you are so sane in this world of stupid weird 0.99

00:31:54.060 deontological stuff the concern do you it doesn't matter when you're talking about a fucking four-year-old 0.98

00:31:59.980 okay because they no it doesn't they don't understand i think it's important to model 0.94

00:32:05.500 what when and i no i actually do think that an infant can show and a toddler can show consent and

00:32:11.180 lack of consent you tell you can tell when our children are not happy with the situation and

00:32:16.380 when they're happy with the situation i don't i don't disagree with that but the problem is that 0.99

00:32:21.180 when you value the perspectives of somebody who's not fully mentally developed you get stupid things 0.93

00:32:26.000 does my child consent to being punished when they do bad things do they consent to time out do they 0.98

00:32:31.440 can no they don't consent to that i mean of course they don't they're a child i'm just saying that

00:32:37.880 there's nuance and then there isn't nuance there isn't nuance i i am saying there isn't nuance okay

00:32:43.900 if our child comes to us and they go i think i'm a woman today can you medically transition me or put me 1.00

00:32:49.920 on a drug that will change the course of my life i'm gonna be like no fuck off that's a dumb idea 1.00

00:32:53.980 i understand that you're hearing about this online but you're four like you don't even like 1.00

00:33:00.600 our four-year-old cannot consistently state his gender but malcolm if our if our two-year-old or

00:33:06.680 something saw us filming him with a camera and said no and ran away and started crying we would

00:33:12.660 think it wasn't cool to film him with a camera i suppose but that doesn't happen i know it doesn't

00:33:19.340 happen but if it did we would take it seriously yeah we take it seriously but i'm just saying it

00:33:24.360 doesn't happen so it's not within the realm i guess there might be some kids that are afraid of

00:33:29.620 the public seeing them but our kids love it yeah that's you know our fortunate reality but again

00:33:35.640 it's because they're genetically related to us so i think that this is another thing that people

00:33:39.180 don't understand is we're making these decisions for people who will think similarly to us and yeah 0.92

00:33:45.240 and any of that in mind for all these influencer fame whores as well who are fame whores like us 0.95

00:33:50.300 but these people have children who are probably at least a little bit like them and but the problem

00:33:57.660 with a lot of the fame whores and i'd say that they're in a more ethically questionable scenario than 1.00

00:34:01.780 us is they use their children to augment the way the public sees them so their children are props to

00:34:08.340 demonstrate their parenting and stuff like that to the public whereas our children like the point of all

00:34:14.480 of this is our children the point of developing the school is our children the point of everything

00:34:17.860 is giving our children the best shot possible yeah we are developing like an intellectual

00:34:22.260 conversation brand which is very different from the brand that a lot of people are developing

00:34:27.740 is like the only negatives to our brand is that it's weird and the kids can even leverage that in

00:34:33.480 their early social media days if they want to go against it i hate what my parents did it's horrible

00:34:37.420 but great way to get sympathy and build up a lot of followers in your early days right like

00:34:41.120 even if they disagree with us that very disagreement can be capitalized on but only because of how

00:34:47.540 extremely weird and extremist we are we're an extremist and they just look ungrateful right you've

00:34:53.240 got to create an environment where even if they hate you it's positive yeah and you can't skew things

00:34:57.800 there there are famous examples too of youtubers who i don't know their dog is dying or something and

00:35:03.160 then they are filming in the car and the parents coaching their child on how to look more devastated

00:35:09.380 so i think a lot of it also comes down to being genuine i love it all right have a good one

00:35:17.600 simone bye malcolm we're gonna be talking about we're having a call for the natalism conference too

00:35:24.100 for anyone who missed the first one be sure to check it out on the website number six and seven

00:35:29.600 see you there bye oh we have to go it's a call it's a video call so stay here not stay here but get on

00:35:37.940 the video call wait let me check hold on let me check yep it's a google meet call join it it's in

00:35:47.540 your calendar deleting angry facebook comments what no facebook just seems to bring out like

00:35:54.660 the lowest of the low in terms of haters no twitter is pretty bad that's pretty i appreciate that you

00:36:02.240 engage with twitter to protect me hold up there you are you have my social media comments yeah yeah

00:36:09.440 right here oh that's nice oh great this is all the twitter comments yeah oh kyle you thought me 0.56

00:36:15.960 having someone edit my social media would make me look stupid people are actually really stoked on me

00:36:19.600 now it's a pretty brutal job shifting through all that darkness instagram's just funny because now

00:36:26.940 the theme is every time i post something gesundheit oh gesundheit people just say you know it's always

00:36:35.440 oh god his face is red was he just slapped or oh do you slap him for being adventurous or not

00:36:42.120 adventurous enough they'll just find some gotta be like a little bit of both yeah yeah well yeah

00:36:48.020 i would love to post the uh venezuela meme there this is outrageous you shout like that they put you in

00:36:55.560 jail right away no trial no no nothing you're playing music too loud right to jail right away

00:37:01.500 you're driving too fast jail slow jail you undercook fish believe it or not jail you overcook chicken

00:37:08.480 also jail undercook overcook parks and rack is so underrated it's actually not underrated this

00:37:15.400 show it got the attention it deserved i think hey octavian what's the name of the island

00:37:21.040 yeah you called it hanger bob

00:37:24.800 what are you working on torsen 0.78

00:37:33.600 oh do you have dirty fingers octavian what do we do when somebody gets dirty fingers 0.95

00:37:41.820 titan why don't you come on over here 0.97

00:37:46.580 what are you doing octavian you helping push the boats

00:37:54.380 what about you guys what are you up to

00:37:57.820 you

00:38:20.440 why do you

00:38:21.840 Thank you.

Based Camp - June 19, 2024

The Ethics of Not Showing Kids On The Internet

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