Why do women cheat? Why do animals cheat, and why do humans cheat? In this episode, we talk about why women cheat, by species, by ethnicity, and by culture. We also discuss why cheating is so common in humans and why it is so rare in animals.
00:02:34.760So, historically, the most believed hypothesis, and it's the one that we argued for in our book,
00:02:42.140for the predominant reason women cheat, is to get better genes.
00:02:47.960This is the beta, bucks, alpha, F strategy.
00:02:52.840This is the, I have a provider who I know is going to raise my children, but frankly, I can't secure a high-value male who will invest in me.
00:03:04.320But most high-value men, at least in a historic context, this is before child support, and we often talk about the genetic effects of child support, not super positive.
00:03:12.300But before child support was a risk, historically, a man, and we'll get into the stats of how often this happened historically in a bit, would just sleep with other women, right?
00:03:23.340You know, so I, as a woman, might only be able to get some fairly average-looking, some fairly average-competence man, but in terms of, you know, what I actually want, I want the powerful lords, kids.
00:03:36.680I want the, or the person who has shown themselves to be, you know, an amazing knight, and who is buff, and who is fit, and everything like that.
00:03:43.380But he's never going to settle down with a woman like me, but he, screw me, right?
00:03:48.000Well, it didn't, aren't there some, there was a study at some point that found that women who were ovulating were more attracted to men who looked more chad-like.
00:03:56.120Yeah, so that becomes a part of this story, is that that study's kind of been debunked.
00:04:01.400And that was a core, seen as a core piece of evidence supporting this.
00:04:05.060But I want to go to you here, and say, you were telling me earlier about how, like, all of these female romance books, it's always like, they don't talk about the personality, it's just how much power the guy has.
00:04:18.840A really weird thing that I realized after talking with Malcolm about, sort of, a common characteristic I've noticed of women in erotic material is really their sentiment, their enthusiasm, their, their, their, kind of their personality to a great extent is a selling point.
00:04:36.960Whereas in all of these romance novels, and I've gone through so many, I like reading romance novel reviews more than I like reading romance novels, which is really interesting, and also seeing how they're tagged.
00:04:47.740And it does not matter if they are good people or bad people.
00:04:52.840It does not matter if they are kind or mean.
00:04:56.080What matters is that they are dominant, especially high class, as perceived by society.
00:05:00.800So that could be that they're a mob boss.
00:05:02.340It could be that they're a billionaire.
00:05:03.740It could be that they are a fairy prince.
00:05:05.940But they are high in the hierarchy, and they have chosen, for whatever reason, the female protagonist, who typically is extremely annoying.
00:05:14.280But they have no, there's like no person, there's very little exposition into their personality.
00:05:18.680There's not really a lot of description of it.
00:05:21.400Maybe they're a little cold, you know, like the only, the only elements of their personality seem to have to do with their dominance and status.
00:05:37.320But like, I don't, I don't know how to describe people's personalities, obviously.
00:05:40.160But it is interesting that women are actually quite superficial in what arouses them.
00:05:45.320And we talk about this in the Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality, which is, people are like, oh, women are like, not that sexual, and men are really sexual.
00:05:52.600Like, they look at porn consumption rates in men, and the amount of time.
00:05:56.060Yeah, but when you look at the romance novel industry, you discover that, oh my gosh, women are very.
00:06:00.580Yeah, if you include erotic fan fiction in romance novels, porn consumption among women, women is almost exactly equal.
00:06:06.860And they do it publicly, for the love of God.
00:06:08.760I mean, they talk about it like it's okay, you know.
00:06:11.440Yeah, well, it's a social thing for them, which is also interesting, right?
00:06:15.320Like, there isn't the same stigmatization around talking what, you know, they're clearly getting off to.
00:06:20.200That's, that's what they're doing when they're, you know, Fifty Shades of Grey is not for the story, right?
00:06:28.340You know, it is, it is a design predominantly to arouse them.
00:06:31.980I mean, I actually tried to watch, I didn't, I couldn't read it, but I tried to watch Fifty Shades of Grey to, like, comment on it in a podcast for, that we did.
00:06:40.640I literally couldn't make it through, it was so bad.
00:06:44.960And the characters were that uninspired, that it just, it's, it's really, it's awful.
00:06:51.160And so, yeah, there is this sort of one note power dynamic thing going on.
00:06:54.440And so, this one note power dynamic would support two of the potential, well, maybe more than two of the, actually, all of the potential theories.
00:07:01.940It doesn't actually solve anything for us.
00:07:07.780This was believed a long time in the field as, like, the predominant strategy because one study reported to show that women, depending on their stage of the cycle, when they were more fertile, preferred men who were more, like, masculine and, and, and more of this, like, alphas type.
00:07:26.340And when they were less fertile, they preferred men who were more resource providers for them and caring and everything like that.
00:07:32.960Very much this, this, this, this dynamic.
00:07:35.240And that would have been created by evolution if that had been a strategy and the mechanism of action of that strategy.
00:07:40.520The problem is, is when we wrote the Pragmentous Guide to Sexuality, it had, it had, the initial studies debunking it had come out, but, like, they hadn't been accepted as mainstream yet.
00:07:49.120And it had been, like, the mainstream perspective in the field for so long, I wasn't going to, like, throw it out.
00:07:53.600Now, the, the, the studies that are, are more robust, they have been replicated, and it appears that that does not happen.
00:08:01.080Now, I need to note here, that does not mean that women, from an evolutionary perspective, were not engaging in this behavior.
00:08:10.420It just means you didn't have this mechanism of action promoting the behavior of the time of cycle in a woman.
00:08:20.200It also is interesting that you could even argue that hidden fertility in women at all could be a signifier that women were doing this strategy.
00:08:29.500So, this is actually one of the big mysteries of human sexuality.
00:08:34.080In most other primates, a woman's period when she's fertile is pretty heavily signaled, like giant red butts or something like that, that they don't have during other periods of their cycle.
00:09:05.380So, this is likely to ensure that the sexual capital of a woman is preserved across all periods of her fertility window, which indicates that some of these strategies may have been at play here, but we'll get to some of the other.
00:09:18.240The predominant strategy after this one, after the, oh, they're going to cheat strategy, was a strategy that said the predominant reason women cheat is because they are looking for a better partner, i.e. a woman cheats when she thinks she can secure a partner who is better than her last partner.
00:09:39.540And they use this as like an interstitial period.
00:09:42.560And this is what I hear most from at least 10 years ago, what I heard most when I hung around red pill communities, that this was hypergamy, and this was why women cheated and left.
00:09:54.120Whenever they saw a better option, they just hop onto it.
00:10:29.800So, okay, to have different baby daddies for all their children, because if they happened to reproduce with one man who just had terrible cancer risk, at least that was only passed on to one of her children.
00:10:41.200Yeah, except the problem is that if you're doing the math of genetics, right, genetics doesn't exactly care about you as an individual, right?
00:10:51.040So, because it all washes out in the math, it actually doesn't matter if you had the kids with one partner or with multiple partners.
00:11:00.640Do you understand why that would wash out in the math?
00:11:02.760So, as me, as an individual, right, I have statistically increased the odds that one of my offspring will survive if my partner had whatever potential disease.
00:11:22.280By that, what I mean is if I have five kids with one guy and five kids with another guy, okay, and I'm choosing from a pool of a thousand men, all right?
00:11:34.000And half of the men in that pool, this gene that ends up with their children dying, if your kids get it, right?
00:11:41.700And the other half of the men in that pool of a thousand men don't have that gene, okay?
00:11:45.760And now me as a woman, I have two sets of potential genes.
00:11:50.860One gene says have 10 kids with one guy.
00:11:54.200Statistically speaking, these genes actually get passed on at exactly the same rate.
00:12:00.280Because genes don't care about you as an individual, okay?
00:12:04.320I realize this might still be confusing for people, so I'll explain the math here in another way.
00:12:08.840The probability that a gene gets transferred to the next generation is determined by the percentage of the children that the average carrier of that gene both has and survive.
00:12:20.820So, we're going to put women into two categories.
00:12:24.300One category, 50% of their genes are with one guy.
00:12:27.60050% of their genes are with another guy.
00:12:30.660The second category, we're going to call category two.
00:12:33.400They always have all of their kids with one guy, okay?
00:12:36.440And so, we're going to assume to make the math easy that each of these women always has 10 kids.
00:12:40.800We're also going to assume to make the math easy that guys exist in two categories, X and O.
00:12:46.900If you have kids with an X guy, those kids all die for a genetic reason.
00:12:52.740If you have kids with an O guy, those kids all survive, all right?
00:12:56.640So, if you are a type one woman where 50% of your kids is one guy, 50% of your kids with another guy, you have three types of pairings you can have.
00:13:06.440You either have an X-O pairing where you have 50% of your kids with an X guy and 50% of your kids with an O guy.
00:13:13.480You have an XX pairing and you have an O-O pairing, all right?
00:13:17.360So, how many of your kids are going to survive on average?
00:13:58.440And even if you think about like the marginal utility of this, it's just the marginal utility isn't that high.
00:14:03.980You know, especially when you consider the cost of cheating, which infanticide and stuff like that.
00:14:09.080Men seem to have an infanticide instinct towards kids who are not their own.
00:14:12.340Non-biological children living with a man have 3x the rate of dying.
00:14:17.660You know, who knows why that's happening.
00:14:19.820But we do know that our nearest ancestors, if you look at apes, you know, often when they move in to get the woman fertile again and to not care for another man's kids, they'll take the cubs and they will smash them on rocks.
00:14:28.740And then we can look at civilization developing.
00:14:30.740What does the Bible say to do to the young children of the areas that you conquer?
00:37:35.820And unfortunately, that's just not what the data says.
00:37:38.040Here is another study that looked at this.
00:37:40.840A meta-analysis of 12 infidelity studies among married couples found that 31% of men and 16% of women had a sexual affair that entailed no emotional investment.
00:37:50.34013% of men and 21% of women had been romantically involved but not sexually involved with someone other than their spouse.
00:37:55.720And 20% of men and women had engaged in an affair that included both a sexual and emotional connection.
00:38:01.400So, that's really – men and women actually cheat the exact same amount when you average sexual and emotional cheating.
00:38:29.380I think the thing is – the thing is, I think men do physical – like having sex with other people physically where there's no emotional component I think would probably bother the average female partner less than an emotional affair.
00:38:44.940And I think that for men, an emotional affair that a woman has would probably bother him less than a physically sexual affair that she has.
00:42:03.500People are like, why do you mention, like, that you've slept with lots of people and stuff like that?
00:42:06.720And it's because it's important in qualifying a big mistake in our society that in terms of securing a partner leads a lot of men to make big mistakes in terms of time investment calculation.
00:42:18.380And that they are investing a lot of time in honing their body more than they need to for health reasons or actually finding a partner.
00:42:25.060If you are doing enough exercise to be at optimum health, okay, you are going to be at optimum for finding most partners except for ones with fairly rare fetishes.
00:42:35.300And that's unfortunately just the way it is and it leads to miscalculations where actually it's more about, like, presence and ambition for the future.
00:42:44.580Because, you know, they're thinking about who am I going to spend my life with, right?
00:42:48.040We've talked about that enough in another episode.
00:42:49.220I actually was talking a lot with Simone about this afterwards and what we came to was it appears that men are confusing intersexual signaling competitions with intrasexual signaling.
00:43:06.300So, to word this a different way, the ways that men are signaling in terms of bodybuilding is specifically signaling to other men and not to women.
00:43:20.320It's like, okay, if you think about, like, the classic girl crushes from various generations, girls were able to go and watch the Marvel movie, right?
00:43:31.160Filled with all sorts of buff, masculine characters.
00:43:35.300Who was the predominant girl crush coming out of that movie?
00:45:01.900So don't, you know, the male influencers who have a vested interest in telling you, oh, you have to strive for this aspirational body type that I have and you do not have.
00:45:26.960And I'm pretty sure he's older than me, too.
00:45:28.900If you look at what the men look like in the actual books that women are reading to get off, in these actual female romance books, as Simone says, they're just often not these He-Man-looking characters.
00:45:44.460If you look at the fan art that the teenage girls are drawing of their crushes, they don't look like this, okay?
00:46:48.780This trope, there's, I don't know if you've seen this, but there is this trope in media of old person homes where there's obviously fewer men because men on average die much earlier.
00:46:59.280And women are just thirsty, and there's this trope of the man who is just drowning in pussy in the old person home.
00:47:07.900Well, there's actually an evolutionary reason for this.
00:47:13.540If you were post-menopausal, I wouldn't really care if you were sexually intimate with other men.
00:47:19.320On reflection, my opinion of this may change as I get older because I realized that when I was thinking of a post-menopausal Simone, I was thinking of an old-looking lady.
00:47:29.220And I was like, well, I don't find old-looking women attractive, so I guess we just won't be sexually active at that point in our lives.
00:47:35.080And now I'm like, well, but I'll be older than two.
00:47:37.720And I don't know if I would have found Simone attractive at this age when I was younger as well.
00:47:43.140So, you think the issue is that these women feel like their partners are comfortable with it, and that's why they're going for it?
00:47:51.440It's not that their partners are – it is that the possessiveness I would have of you as a sexual partner would just naturally decrease when you're no longer fertile.
00:48:02.500Why would that influence my interest in cheating?
00:48:28.300However, are the benefits still there?
00:48:31.120Could you secure additional resources from other men by sleeping with them after you have borne all my kids,
00:48:37.820and I know that you are raising and passing those resources down to the kids?
00:48:40.760Yes, there are benefits to you and my kids from you sleeping around post-menopausal speaking because you can, at the nursing home, build connections with other people, get resources from other people, and there's no longer any real risk.
00:48:57.680One of the things to note here, right?
00:49:17.520Like, if I knew you were sleeping with some billionaire, and you were post-menopausal, and I got, you know, like, a person ended up investing in one of our kids, like, $10 million in one of our kids' companies.
00:49:37.340You also don't know how instinctually you're going to change when you become post-menopausal.
00:49:43.340The rate of women cheating post-menopausally goes up astronomically.
00:49:46.960It's like 4x or something what it is at other times of their life.
00:49:50.080Yeah, but, you know, as we've seen in our sexuality research, people's sexuality tends to stay pretty stable, and I am pretty sure that means I'm going to remain asexual but gay for Malcolm.
00:50:02.800It's not like I'm going to reach some.
00:50:04.320Yeah, maybe, and I should say, I wouldn't be, like, super awesome chilled with it, but I would weigh the benefit if you were post-menopausal.
00:50:54.220Here's, here's another one that I think you'd find really funny.
00:50:57.340So in a gleaning survey covering 8,000 respondents, 57% of women and 62% of men admitted to having an affair while they were away on a business trip, which is really interesting because that's way higher than any of the normal numbers, but it's for people specifically who go on business trips.
00:51:14.300Okay. So when dating people, if you are really not in to being cheated on, ask them how frequently they travel for business, because that's a red flag right there.
00:51:24.780That's really useful. That's, I want, I want actionable, actionable advice for our listeners today.
00:51:30.460You want to hear another crazy study. According to a study in computers in human behavior, 18% to 25% of Tinder users are in a committed relationship while using the app.
00:51:40.840But if you look at Americans only, this number skyrocketed to 42%.
00:51:46.340So around half of Tinder users are using it to have an affair, which is actually a really important thing that we used to be able to avoid using something called Facebook official.
00:51:55.820So it used to be historically when I was dating, the norm was when a relationship got serious, like a huge escalation in the relationship status that was like, I wouldn't say halfway to getting engaged, but it was like a, now this is an official.
00:52:07.200Yeah. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Facebook relationship status was a big signaler. Although I want to go even further back to pretend that you're single.
00:52:14.700I want to go further back to my little, you know, 1950s, 1960s coronet films, like those little instructional videos that were played in high schools for students, giving them social norms.
00:52:25.740I was really stunned when one on dating really made it clear that at least dating in high school was you were dating multiple people and monogamy within dating.
00:52:37.600If you weren't going to get engaged or married, it was kind of expected that you as a woman would see multiple guys and that a guy would see multiple women.
00:52:45.240And now I think the important thing is that people were not having sex. Maybe they were making out. Right. But they were not having sex because that was just not done.
00:52:55.760At least in your high school. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying in the 40s through 60s. Oh, probably 40s to 50s. I'm not slutty in the 60s.
00:53:03.960But they, it was understood that when you were dating, because you're trying to find a partner, you should be dating multiple people. You should be playing the field.
00:53:13.100So to me, to a certain extent, I think about people dating on Tinder.
00:53:16.500Yeah, sure. If you're dating, you should be dating a lot of people at the same time concurrently. I think this concept-
00:53:23.400No, no, hold on, hold on. They had a Facebook official in the 50s and 40s. Do you remember what it was?
00:53:48.220Well, yeah. And going steady too was a sign that you were more committed.
00:53:51.280Did they also have a food ceremony that they would do?
00:53:53.460Yeah, but that was for when people were basically pre-engaged and the plan was that they were going to get married and people were dating to get married.
00:54:01.880And I think the important thing is in an ecosystem in which people are dating to get married, you are dating multiple people concurrently.
00:54:08.240And this concept that people, when dating, like when finding someone on Tinder and casually going on dates, then get horrified when it turns out that the person that they're dating is dating other people.
00:54:23.880It actually makes a lot more sense to be dating multiple people at once instead of serial monogamy if the goal is to find a good partner for your life.
00:54:46.520But now I want to get to your question about how likely is somebody to cheat if they had cheated before.
00:54:52.060So ESI means, well, I'll just say like extrasexual relationship.
00:54:54.980Findings from logical regressions showed that those who reported engaging in extrasexual relationships in the first relationship were three times more likely to report in engaging in an extrasexual relationship in their next relationship compared to those who do not report engaging in extrasexual relationships.
00:55:08.960I'm just picturing hecklefish saying, once a cheetah, always a cheetah.
00:55:19.660Similarly, compared to those who reported that their first relationship partners did not engage in ESA, though in extrasexual relationship, those who knew that their partners in the first relationship had engaged in an extrasexual relationship were twice as likely to report the same behavior from their next partners.
00:55:37.780So this is also like people being abused.
00:55:42.320They just keep ending up in relationships in which they're abused and people being cheated on keep ending up in relationships in which they're being cheated on.
00:55:51.280Well, no, this is also like if you know that your partner has done this, the other thing is suspicion.
00:55:55.740So those who were suspicious that their first partners did ESA in performant relationships had four times the rate of that suspicion in their current relationship.
00:56:04.960So it appears you might also have like a genetic proclivity towards suspicion.
00:56:23.620I think all of them played some evolutionary role in humans.
00:56:27.740I think the one thing I'd add is I suspect that there's a separate one, which is postmenopausal women that likely their sexuality transforms in some way where sexuality becomes more transactional for them.
00:56:37.960Think about old people voting each other.
00:57:05.020I think you and I also approach sexuality very differently from other people.
00:57:09.720I think for a lot of people, and we have to get back to this, too, that a lot of people think that they're talking about sex when really they're talking about validation.
00:57:19.240They're talking about their own personal narrative and how they feel about themselves.
00:57:23.000And maybe that's what's going on here.
00:57:24.480You know, okay, yeah, it's like gross old people bodies, but sex was never about actually, you know, beyond your adolescence when, like, the hormones really are raging.
00:57:33.100It was never really about, you know, all these things.
00:57:35.840It was always about trying to satisfy some kind of perception of I'm the kind of person who has sex.
00:57:43.060And maybe that when people reach an age where they're retired and they have all this leisure time, they still haven't gotten past this understanding that success in life means that you're having a lot of sex and therefore they need to get it.
00:58:03.040I want to talk about another thing that I've always found really funny from an evolutionary standpoint is when lesbians get mad that guys don't care when their girlfriends or wives cheat on them with lesbians.
00:58:11.260There isn't an evolutionary reason to be afraid of that.
00:58:14.180Anything, it's a potential benefit because that's an additional sexual partner.
00:58:38.920I don't even, I feel like if anything, for most guys, it would be seen as like kind of hot, you know?
00:58:44.820Yeah, disease transfer to, between women when they're having sexual encounters is incredibly rare.
00:58:50.380Honestly, I feel like most women would probably improve their husband's sexual satisfaction of them if they had an extramarital affair with a female.
00:59:00.060Even if that female had zero, like, you know, even if there was zero chance, it'd be a three-way.
00:59:05.340Just because, like, they're thinking about their wife having sex with her.
00:59:09.760And the calculation that would be going on in my brain is, well, and what if, like, my wife actually falls for this person and is willing to then have another partner who I can impregnate in our marriage, right?
00:59:20.660Like, it may structurally not be as stable, but it's more kids and more hands in the house.
00:59:38.060I think someone will be like, oh, no, like, monogamy stands all the way.
00:59:41.600But I think that, you know, most men, if they had enough wealth to the South Park thing again, they'd be like, yeah, it makes sense to press for that.
00:59:50.100But, yeah, so I find that interesting as well, this very confused reaction as to why women would care when their husbands sleep with other men.
00:59:59.020Because this does happen, and women get quite upset even when it's only sexual.
01:00:02.540It's because, historically speaking, the disease transfer rate between male-male sex is incredibly high compared to any other form of sex you can have.
01:00:09.700And it is really dangerous for a woman to have her husband be out there sleeping with other men, even though there's no risk of him, like, impregnating them and diverting resources.
01:00:20.160Which is why, you know, fortunately, I'm not at risk there.
01:00:24.800No, no, no temptation on that point, fortunately.
01:00:27.900I mean, when I say fortunately, I don't mean anything about gay people.
01:01:23.400But now, as an adult, I'm like, oh, thank God I'm not bi, because that is a whole area of temptation in my marriage that I don't have.
01:01:34.520I never need to worry about being tempted by, like, a guy on a business trip or something like that, and risk getting the diseases that could be associated with that, and risk any relationship complications that could be associated with that.
01:01:47.300I'm trying to think, like, is the, you know, so we were talking earlier about husbands wouldn't be pissed.
01:01:53.880If you, you know, would I be pissed if you had an emotional affair with a guy or a sexual affair with a guy?
01:02:02.900I would be, I would be less concerned.
01:02:07.360Would you, oh, actually, hear the question.
01:02:09.040Yeah, I would be less concerned by a bromance, by an emotional affair with a guy, than if you had a.
01:02:13.380Yeah, yeah, yeah, but just, just biologically speaking, instinctually speaking, would you be more concerned if you heard I had slept with another guy, or more concerned if you heard I slept with another woman?
01:02:30.280Well, I mean, it's interesting with a lot of this stuff, you can just search your own feelings.
01:02:32.980I just think it's, I think, I think bi men are uniquely unusual.
01:02:36.640I, I just don't think there are that many.
01:02:39.920I don't think there are that many either.
01:02:41.000And in the practice guide to sexuality, one of the biggest mysteries of human sexuality is why is it that gay women, right, look more like straight women, but that have a female preference?
01:02:55.920And why is it that gay men, instead of looking like a female sexual expression, have a sexual expression that's more like a mirrored straight sexual expression, i.e. they look like straight men, but that are interested in men.
01:03:08.220So I'm going to explain this a little differently here.
01:03:10.680When we did our studies, what we found is that straight men often find the idea of sex with men, it elicits an active disgust reaction.
01:03:18.580As we say, disgust is part of the sexual profile of a human.
01:03:23.760And for many gay men, sleeping with a woman actually elicits an active disgust response, but in often gay women, you don't get this as much.
01:03:33.080They, they don't have as much active disgust towards sleeping with men.
01:03:38.160And with straight women, it's the same thing.
01:03:40.640So they're both like much closer to the center of, of, of this sort of Kinsey spectrum.
01:03:44.520And I think that this gives us some idea of what's going on when a person is born gay, that it is not that they are born with the opposite genders, sexual profile, but they are born with a mirrored iteration of their own gender, sexual profile.
01:04:00.300Which says a lot about how sex might develop in humans.
01:04:03.880And if you want to know her about this, The Fragment Disguided Sexuality is the book for you.
01:05:02.300Like I joked about being like, well, you know, if you had an emotional, like if you podcasted with someone else, I'd be devastated.
01:05:08.300But like, I mean, I actually, I don't, I'm not devastated that you podcasted with Ayla.
01:05:15.440I love Ayla so freaking much where I'm like, of course you've talked with Ayla.
01:05:18.960I guess, I guess I see her as a sister though.
01:05:21.400You know, like she's a member of the family.
01:05:23.020She's part of House Collins as far as we're concerned.
01:05:24.940So I also, that's interesting is I wonder if people feel the same way about emotional relationships with people who they see as family.
01:05:35.860This is the final point I want to make that I call harem sexuality.
01:05:40.300I've noticed some women seem to have a sexuality that's really optimized for being in a harem where they want, because many women historically were in harems, especially some of the most successful because those were often well.
01:05:51.140So no, no, no, no, then sister wife sexuality.
01:05:54.260Well, it's a little different because they're often really interested.
01:05:57.100Sister wives, my understanding in Mormon cultures, the women didn't have sexual relations with each other, whereas.
01:06:16.860Like the idea, like when I think about polygamy, I don't think like, oh, how could I share Malcolm?
01:06:26.740I just think like, I don't want to be around more people.
01:06:30.000Here's another instinctual thing that I've noticed in you where it comes with, you know, if I was risk of sleeping with somebody other than you, is you seem to have much less instinctual concern.
01:06:44.080Now, Ayla is not somebody who I personally find attractive because I find really high body counts, like instinctually unattractive.
01:06:50.220But you like wouldn't be as worried with someone like her because I've noticed that you categorize specific women.
01:06:58.220If you're like this woman is high status and I get along with her and high resourced in some way, you seem to not like when I say sleeping with a random person, you don't put them in that same category.
01:07:12.840Yeah, but aren't they my biggest, because if we're talking about risks to relationship integrity in the form of hypergamy, what you're saying is basically any woman who's better than me, I don't seem to be worried about.
01:08:40.040And she said, she gave him a list of people she was okay with in marrying.
01:08:42.800Because she believed, and Mormon women believe this, that if their husbands marry two people in their life, even if they're not polygynous in life, they have to be polygynous in the next life.
01:08:51.520So when her husband dies, she had to spend eternity with whoever he chose to marry next.