Based Camp - May 10, 2024


The Problem With Being a Pronatalist


Episode Stats

Length

33 minutes

Words per Minute

178.21605

Word Count

5,970

Sentence Count

377

Misogynist Sentences

13

Hate Speech Sentences

22


Summary

In this episode, we talk about the pro-natalist movement and why it's so low stress, and why we look so much younger and less stressed than Greta Thiel. We also talk about why there's no status hierarchy within the movement.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 There's another thing about the pro-natalist movement, and that is what I'd call our Tucker
00:00:04.880 and Dale force versus evil problem.
00:00:07.320 It is about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize people outside
00:00:13.580 of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them as like freaks
00:00:18.060 and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them, and end up like murdering
00:00:23.180 themselves in the process.
00:00:24.380 Oh, good, look, your friends are here.
00:00:25.740 Hey!
00:00:26.780 You're supposed to want to have children, and this is your ultimate goal in life.
00:00:30.780 It is a very archaic idea, an old idea, and representation of a woman.
00:00:42.060 So you, you're getting people to sign a pledge basically saying that they will not have children
00:00:47.880 until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.
00:00:52.580 Is that your blood?
00:00:53.660 What, no?
00:00:54.560 No, it's college kid blood.
00:00:56.140 And how many people have signed on so far?
00:00:58.400 1,381, as of right now.
00:01:02.060 I know what this is.
00:01:03.440 This is a suicide pact.
00:01:05.100 Oh my God, that makes so much sense.
00:01:07.000 We have got to hide all of the sharp objects.
00:01:09.320 Only I was born with a vagina.
00:01:11.440 Solved that problem.
00:01:12.200 Amen, sister.
00:01:12.780 Holy mother of God!
00:01:18.240 Some kid.
00:01:20.460 He just hooked himself right into the wood chipper.
00:01:22.740 What?
00:01:23.180 Head first, right into the wood chipper.
00:01:25.400 It looked like it might have been one of the college kids.
00:01:27.460 Would you like to know more?
00:01:28.500 Hello, Simone.
00:01:29.540 I am so excited to be talking with you again today back at our old location where we originally
00:01:34.500 started filming, but now we have a hard connection.
00:01:37.040 So you guys get solid video quality from here.
00:01:39.900 But one thing I wanted to think about today is the nature of running the pronatalists or being
00:01:49.680 leading figures in the pronatalist movement and what that means.
00:01:53.320 And why we look so much younger and less stressed than Greta Thiel.
00:01:56.440 Yeah, because there was an article that came out in Politico about the pronatalist conference.
00:02:00.360 And they noted, they're like, despite it being a fairly glum message, everyone seemed really
00:02:05.160 upbeat and everyone was really optimistic.
00:02:07.240 Yeah, honestly, there was so much laughing, there was so much joking, there was so much
00:02:13.220 lightheartedness, which is funny because demographic collapse is dire and scary.
00:02:20.200 Yeah, it is like climate change, a very scary shift that if not properly planned for is going
00:02:27.960 to hurt the most vulnerable of populations.
00:02:31.120 Oh yeah, millions of people are going to die slow and painful deaths because of this.
00:02:34.400 Conservatively, actually, I'd say probably at least a billion people are going to die a
00:02:38.300 slow and painful death over demographic collapse.
00:02:40.740 And people are like, what do you mean?
00:02:41.920 Come on, that's an exaggeration.
00:02:43.380 And I'm like, okay, or you could look at every state's social security system, every state's
00:02:48.180 Medicare system.
00:02:49.080 How are they going to pay for that?
00:02:50.640 How are they going to pay to keep their elderly alive?
00:02:54.120 Okay, they're not.
00:02:55.620 They're going to die.
00:02:56.780 They're going to starve.
00:02:57.780 They're going to freeze.
00:02:58.700 And they're not going to get medical treatments.
00:03:00.240 That's what's going to happen as a result of all this.
00:03:03.560 But you might say, then why is it such an upbeat movement?
00:03:07.500 Why is it so low stress to operate?
00:03:10.660 One, and this is something I really noticed at the event itself, is there is no status
00:03:15.400 hierarchy signaling within the movement.
00:03:18.120 While in our Discord server, people do list how many kids they have.
00:03:21.020 That really isn't a sign of status within the movement.
00:03:23.380 Yeah, and one reason, and I just want to emphasize this because this is so freaking
00:03:26.980 important.
00:03:27.340 It does not matter how many kids you have.
00:03:29.380 What matters is how many grandchildren and great-grandchildren you have.
00:03:32.300 If you don't give your kids a great upbringing and they're not super stoked about passing on
00:03:35.760 your culture and having their own kids, you've failed.
00:03:37.940 So I don't care if you have one kid or you have 10 kids.
00:03:40.120 It matters what happens with those kids.
00:03:42.760 Yeah, so one, I think it's the lack of status hierarchy.
00:03:45.480 When I'm in environmentalist stuff, there's a status hierarchy in signaling how much you care
00:03:50.540 about the environment and what you're doing for the environment, which is a very important
00:03:55.140 part of these rallies and events and stuff like that.
00:03:59.300 And it's actually the reason people go to them.
00:04:01.820 That is an absolutely massive part of why it's so low stress.
00:04:05.700 As to why there's no status hierarchy, I can only speculate, but it may be because at many
00:04:13.100 of these other events, people who participate in them are participating in them in part because
00:04:18.620 they have been rejected from other social communities.
00:04:21.600 And so the validation that they get within this community is the only source of validation
00:04:26.080 or place where they can really rank high from a social hierarchy perspective.
00:04:30.040 So they really focus on masturbating that instinct.
00:04:32.840 But within the pronatalist movement, at least as it stands right now, no one's really involved
00:04:38.940 in it who isn't more famous or more successful was in another community.
00:04:46.120 And that's probably what's causing it.
00:04:48.160 You don't get the nerdy neckbeard types going.
00:04:52.040 The second thing that we could talk about is if you look at the antinatalist movement,
00:04:56.000 you can see that they have unusually high rates of sociopathy and narcissism and stuff
00:05:00.740 like that.
00:05:01.520 And I suspect that if you looked at the pronatalist movement, you would see the exact opposite
00:05:04.960 of unusually high rates of incredibly low anxiety.
00:05:08.900 And low levels of depression.
00:05:10.560 You're not going to be as motivated to have kids if you are depressed, if you struggle with
00:05:17.880 life.
00:05:18.200 So yeah, people who are having kids typically are doing pretty well mentally, financially,
00:05:22.680 physically.
00:05:23.160 And I think a wave of nihilism has overtaken our society.
00:05:27.880 And this wave of nihilism that is particularly popular among the youth to enter a community
00:05:33.440 and the pronatalist community almost necessarily has almost no nihilism in their thinking, has
00:05:39.240 almost no nihilism.
00:05:40.600 Almost none of this, oh, the future isn't going to be great so long as we can fix it.
00:05:44.320 Or the future isn't going to be great for us.
00:05:45.800 I should note here that this wasn't just something that we noticed.
00:05:49.060 Diana Fleischman said, quote, in a tweet, also, it's likely that the natalism conference had
00:05:54.500 the lowest rate of personality and psychiatric disorders of any conference I have attended.
00:05:59.700 And then Boduck said on Twitter, one interesting thing about natal con was that every single
00:06:04.860 attendee was extremely healthy and attractive and well dressed, a welcome relief from normal
00:06:09.240 life.
00:06:09.580 But there's another thing about the pronatalist movement that's really interesting, and it
00:06:14.320 puts it in quite a different position than other activist movements.
00:06:17.480 And that is what I'd call our Tucker and Dale force of evil problem, where there is this
00:06:23.540 scene in the movie where they're just trying to help these college kids, and the college
00:06:27.140 kids think that they're like these horrible villains because they have stereotypes about
00:06:31.120 Republicans, basically, or like rural people.
00:06:33.480 Yeah, like rednecks.
00:06:34.520 They're basically, the movie is great if you are anti-urban monoculture.
00:06:38.820 It is basically about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize other
00:06:45.400 people outside of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them
00:06:49.660 as like freaks and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them.
00:06:54.460 Why don't you go over there and talk to her?
00:06:56.060 You got to have some faith in yourself, man.
00:06:58.220 Girls can smell fear.
00:06:59.540 Now, come on.
00:07:00.400 Whatever you say, just smile and laugh.
00:07:03.940 That shows confidence.
00:07:04.800 You guys, uh, going camping?
00:07:22.520 Hey, now look, we don't want any trouble, all right?
00:07:31.240 And so they all run out and try to kill these, but they say rednecks, right?
00:07:35.640 These like basic, very well-meaning conservative people and end up like murdering themselves
00:07:40.160 in the process while these other people are like trying to save them.
00:07:43.380 And there's a scene where he comes back and he goes, I don't know what's going on.
00:07:46.340 I think these people have like a suicide pact or something.
00:07:49.620 And it reminds me of every day I come home to my wife.
00:07:53.140 You're supposed to want to have children and this is your ultimate goal in life.
00:07:57.080 It is a very archaic idea, an old idea and representation of a woman.
00:08:02.140 Oh, good.
00:08:02.580 Look, your friends are here.
00:08:03.520 Hey!
00:08:04.340 Yeah!
00:08:05.460 Yeah!
00:08:06.080 Ah!
00:08:08.720 Oh, my God!
00:08:09.980 Oh, my God!
00:08:11.500 Oh, my God!
00:08:12.580 Oh, my God!
00:08:13.100 Oh, my God!
00:08:13.980 And I'm out there, I'm trying to convince people, often from these cultural groups that
00:08:19.940 don't want to have kids, and they will say these horribly mean things to me.
00:08:23.400 And, uh, it's, there's no point in arguing back.
00:08:26.420 There's no point in fighting back really post a point where that your arguments aren't
00:08:30.700 going to land, because to you, they're killing themselves already.
00:08:34.840 Is that your blood?
00:08:35.880 What?
00:08:36.080 No.
00:08:36.800 No, it's college kid blood.
00:08:38.540 One of those suckers came running out of nowhere and speared themselves straight to
00:08:41.000 the gut and died right on top of me, Tut!
00:08:42.840 Holy crap!
00:08:43.460 Oh, no!
00:08:44.420 Calm down, calm down, don't cry.
00:08:45.800 They are in this act of sterilization, memetic sterilization or literal castration.
00:08:52.260 I've had two consultations with two different doctors who offered contrasting opinions.
00:08:57.840 I haven't experienced any sexual sensations, so when the doctors are saying an orgasm is
00:09:03.420 like a sneeze, I don't even know what she's talking about.
00:09:06.040 What girl wants their penis to grow?
00:09:07.600 Not this girl and not any girl.
00:09:09.180 If only I was born with a vagina.
00:09:11.640 Solved that problem.
00:09:12.460 Amen, sister.
00:09:17.080 Are you okay?
00:09:30.700 They have functionally put upon themselves the worst of the harms that I am trying to prevent.
00:09:40.960 Holy mother of God!
00:09:42.800 Some kid, he just hooked himself right into the wood chipper.
00:09:47.160 What?
00:09:47.620 Head first, right into the wood chipper.
00:09:49.840 It looked like it might have been one of the college kids.
00:09:51.820 We live mentally in the future, in our future generations.
00:09:56.340 That's where our minds are, and they literally are not there.
00:10:00.500 So it's, there's, we sometimes, I feel like we should respond to emails from like a diligence
00:10:06.480 standpoint.
00:10:07.600 But yeah, we've received some emails recently from antinatalists and whatnot where I'm like,
00:10:11.940 you're not even a, you're not, you are.
00:10:15.040 I almost want to just send them back the video from the life of Brian with the crack suicide squad
00:10:19.640 that's coming to save them.
00:10:21.220 There's no point.
00:10:43.840 There's no point in engaging because they're not part of the discussion that we're having.
00:10:47.600 They're not in the future.
00:10:49.020 So why do we care?
00:10:50.980 Good for them.
00:10:51.940 Do their thing.
00:10:52.980 But.
00:10:53.720 And, and, and, well, it's interesting.
00:10:55.160 So it's, it's, it's also just constantly when you're in online spaces, you generally end
00:11:00.200 up feeling, I don't think you get the same negativity that other people get.
00:11:03.940 So you, you're getting people to sign a pledge, basically saying that they will not have children
00:11:09.320 until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.
00:11:13.680 And how many people have signed on so far?
00:11:15.960 1,381 as of right now.
00:11:20.060 Nobody's really, nobody is against it.
00:11:23.020 In the very beginning, I sent it out to a whole bunch, maybe like a hundred of my friends.
00:11:27.500 And I would say like 97, 98 of them signed it.
00:11:30.880 Like in my generation, climate, your fear of climate change isn't an opinion.
00:11:37.680 We don't, it's not like America where people start, like people are, you know, they choose
00:11:43.600 to believe in the climate crisis.
00:11:45.060 We've grown up learning about the science.
00:11:46.840 So we're all, you know, all scared of what the future will hold.
00:11:50.040 I know what this is.
00:11:51.240 This is a suicide pact.
00:11:52.860 These kids are coming out here and they're killing themselves.
00:11:55.000 Oh my God.
00:11:55.620 That makes so much sense.
00:11:56.880 We have got to hide all of the sharp objects.
00:11:58.900 Because when I read negativity in online spaces, generally my response is mentally, my thought
00:12:06.080 is, okay, is this an idea that's going to spread, right?
00:12:10.240 Because that's my fear.
00:12:11.160 Like it spreads and it causes more damage.
00:12:12.740 And then is this an idea that's going to spread to people who, if they didn't adopt it, would
00:12:19.280 have made the future a better place?
00:12:21.600 And the answer, it's almost always no.
00:12:24.580 I'll see these people put out these horrible, vile opinions online.
00:12:29.640 I'll see things like these protests at Columbia going on right now.
00:12:32.940 And I'm like, they're not going to have kids.
00:12:35.200 So I don't really need to engage with it.
00:12:37.280 Like they've already done the worst to themselves and they don't see it that way.
00:12:41.560 They don't, because they don't, their conception of the way a human life works is very different
00:12:47.860 from our conception.
00:12:48.760 We see a human life as being an intergenerational thing.
00:12:52.920 It's this intergenerational cycle of improvement that we all have a duty to.
00:12:57.860 Ours is a journey that spans generations where one story ends, another begins.
00:13:07.520 The world our ancestors faced was brutal.
00:13:13.220 Yet from it, they drew life.
00:13:16.540 As Woodward Reed says,
00:13:17.560 All men indeed cannot be poets, inventors, or philanthropists, but all men can join in
00:13:23.120 that gigantic and godlike work, the progress of creation.
00:13:26.920 Whoever improves his own nature improves the universe of which he is a part.
00:13:31.800 He who strives to subdue his evil passions, vile remnants of the old four-footed life, and
00:13:37.980 who cultivates the social affections.
00:13:39.980 He who endeavors to better his condition and make his children wiser and happier than himself,
00:13:46.660 whatever may be his motives, he will have not lived in vain.
00:13:50.500 But yeah, and I completely agree with that quote.
00:13:52.940 I think that that is how I judge a life well-lived.
00:13:56.540 And I don't, as we've talked about before, ship of Theseus and all that, Simone and I don't
00:14:01.040 believe we are meaningfully the same people who existed 10 years ago, 20 years ago.
00:14:06.240 And when I look at who I am today, and I contrast that person with who I was when I was my child's
00:14:13.340 age, I don't think I am any more the same person as that person than I am my child.
00:14:19.080 And so it's not that we think our children in the way that like many antinatalism framers,
00:14:23.320 we think our children are continuations of us today.
00:14:26.560 We just don't believe that humans are meaningfully that continuous to begin with.
00:14:30.620 And so all we can do is live as sacrifices within every moment to try to improve this
00:14:39.620 intergenerational unit, both myself in the future, but also my kids, my grandkids, everything
00:14:44.840 like that.
00:14:45.820 I think there's another big reason why this is a low stress movement, especially when
00:14:49.580 you compare it to other movements like environmentalism, is that inherently this is a non-coercive
00:14:56.080 movement.
00:14:56.420 And by that, to win, you don't need to get everyone on board with your cause.
00:15:01.280 You don't need to get even a majority, even a large minority of people to do something.
00:15:07.580 And that in itself is very low stress, because it means that you're only getting those who
00:15:12.100 are really enthusiastic to tap into good resources that may already exist.
00:15:17.120 You're not forcing people who are not on board to get on board.
00:15:20.520 And I think something really stressful about being, for example, someone who's trying to get
00:15:25.160 people to take action around climate change.
00:15:28.020 Or let's say you're a vegan and you understand just how horrendous animal cruelty is when people
00:15:33.180 are eating meat and you're trying to convince people to not eat meat.
00:15:36.100 It's incredibly stressful to try to convince people to do anything.
00:15:40.040 And the great thing about prenatalism is we're not forcing or trying to convince anyone who's
00:15:44.600 not into having kids into having kids.
00:15:47.300 We're just like, hey, if you're into kids, here's a community where you get rewarded for that.
00:15:52.380 Here's a community where you get to lead in.
00:15:53.960 And imagine if you were a vegan and you got to achieve an end of animal cruelty by just
00:15:59.440 getting to interact with other really enthusiastic vegans and trade vegan recipes and make really
00:16:03.960 cool vegan foods and invent new vegan foods together instead of trying to get all these
00:16:07.800 non-vegans to stop doing horrendous acts, right?
00:16:10.920 I swear this scene reminds me of every time we have to talk to reporters and they're like,
00:16:15.620 oh, so you're Nazis.
00:16:16.760 And I'm like, no, no, no, we're not Nazis.
00:16:18.140 You see, you have to understand the Nazis killed people, lots of people.
00:16:22.640 Like that's why they're a problem.
00:16:24.860 They go, oh, OK, you're violent, far right extremists.
00:16:27.540 Well, OK, we're not violent.
00:16:29.360 And I don't know if the term extremist applies, if it's just, you know, let's keep our civilization
00:16:35.720 afloat.
00:16:36.580 And what's worse is when these reporters are indoctrinated in the urban monoculture, not
00:16:41.000 only do we sound just completely insane to them, but they're always like taking Simone
00:16:46.520 aside and being like, OK, blink once if this is like a hostage situation, expecting that
00:16:52.180 of course, no woman would sign up to associate with these kinds of ideas.
00:16:56.860 So conversations with reporters always go a little like this.
00:16:59.820 You must think that I'm some kind of moron who believes a story like that.
00:17:23.680 Not a moron, just open-minded.
00:17:27.520 You say you are just working when this kid ran up and stuffed his head into that wood chipper.
00:17:35.900 That's a fact.
00:17:36.580 And, and I think maybe they might be trying to kill the girl that we have inside.
00:17:41.460 She can maybe explain the whole thing if I hadn't knocked her unconscious with a shovel.
00:17:47.240 On accident.
00:17:48.660 On accident.
00:17:49.600 You've got another one inside.
00:17:51.100 Yeah, she's in my bedroom.
00:17:52.420 This is, I think, really a part, a place where people might misunderstand us is we are not
00:18:03.440 diversity absolutists.
00:18:05.500 So by that, what I mean is a lot of people know that a core purpose of the movement is
00:18:09.280 to preserve some level of human diversity.
00:18:11.340 Like we think that a diverse species, ethnically and culturally, had the better chance of surviving
00:18:16.000 and will be more productive and will be less likely to turn fascist and authoritarian.
00:18:19.600 When people hear that and they're like, oh, so you want to save absolutely every cultural
00:18:24.160 group, absolutely every ethnic group.
00:18:26.400 And no, we are a coalition of the willing.
00:18:29.360 And when somebody stubbornly says no, like I would make the worst Noah ever.
00:18:34.420 I'd go to an animal and I'd be like, hey, you guys should get on the ark.
00:18:38.020 We're trying to save you.
00:18:39.120 And then the unicorns and fairies, they'd be like, hey, honestly, what you're saying sounds
00:18:44.700 a little homophobic about the flood and everything like that.
00:18:47.860 And I'd be like, it has nothing to do with homophobia.
00:18:50.180 I'm just trying to get you guys on the ark because you're going to die if you don't get
00:18:53.220 on.
00:18:53.720 And then there will be no more fairies and there will be no more unicorns.
00:18:56.880 And they're like, I don't know.
00:18:58.060 I hate you.
00:18:58.440 I'd be like, fuck off.
00:18:59.980 I don't care.
00:19:00.880 Go do your thing.
00:19:01.960 I would be the shortest temper Noah.
00:19:04.400 I know that's why God did not give me that role.
00:19:06.980 I'd just be like, okay, whatever.
00:19:08.160 So often we will have these individuals come to us and I'll see these movements.
00:19:12.360 Like right now, the 4B movement in Korea, it's beginning to spread in the United States,
00:19:15.920 particularly among some parts of American black culture.
00:19:19.600 And I like American black culture.
00:19:21.000 I would like it to survive.
00:19:22.640 I will do what I can to make them aware of the problem, but I'm not going to force them,
00:19:28.000 you know, and if they're going to jump into the wood chipper in an effort.
00:19:32.500 So the 4Bs is the culture that came from Korea, no sex, no men, no marriage, no kids.
00:19:37.960 And it is, it seems to be catching on in the black community because black women feel that
00:19:43.240 was in the current American culture.
00:19:45.460 They are not treated with respect by black men and they just don't have any good options.
00:19:49.940 And so that it's better just to not engage with them.
00:19:52.740 And this is a cultural fight that's not mine to have.
00:19:55.700 It's women trying to spite men that are both outside of my cultural group.
00:20:00.220 And all I can do is say, you know what, this whole thing you guys have going on is pretty
00:20:04.460 toxic.
00:20:05.140 And I hope that we can save some iteration of black American culture.
00:20:09.020 And I hope it doesn't include you or the people who were susceptible to this.
00:20:13.060 And so it's so interesting in that it's a movement that while, and this is another
00:20:16.780 thing, we talk about the horrifying things that are going to happen.
00:20:19.120 Millions upon billions of slow and painful deaths.
00:20:22.640 And people will be like, why doesn't that stress you out?
00:20:24.800 And this, there's a reason why it doesn't stress us out because we as a movement do not
00:20:29.600 really motivate with fear or with pathos.
00:20:32.700 This is one of the things that a lot of people are like, why don't you go more into the pathos
00:20:36.380 more into the pain and sadness?
00:20:38.340 And I'm like, I don't know.
00:20:39.920 It's just not my thing.
00:20:40.920 The movement's so autistic.
00:20:42.280 We're just coming out here with stats.
00:20:43.860 This is what's going to happen.
00:20:44.940 And they're like, well, why not lean into the pathos?
00:20:47.360 And it's because I don't believe the pathos.
00:20:48.980 And I'll explain what I mean by that.
00:20:50.040 I believe that people are going to suffer and die.
00:20:52.160 I also believe that no matter what we do, we are not going to make a meaningful impact
00:20:55.820 on that.
00:20:56.600 There really is, unlike the environmentalist movement, which uses the environmental panic
00:21:02.340 to motivate action.
00:21:05.460 Lots of fear mongering.
00:21:06.880 Lots of fear mongering.
00:21:08.860 We don't do that.
00:21:10.300 And because of that, it means that people would be like, the world is going to be in a bad
00:21:15.240 situation and it's going to be that no matter what we do.
00:21:17.700 So why stress?
00:21:18.280 Why stress about the things that are going to happen no matter what?
00:21:20.700 And more important, it's the optimist's movement in that there are some people who are just
00:21:24.860 a little bit more driven by the potential, by the opportunity, by something really cool
00:21:31.660 that could happen than people who are driven by, it's carrot versus stick people.
00:21:35.860 And we're carrot people.
00:21:37.040 It's okay.
00:21:37.960 There are lots of stick people.
00:21:39.240 They can do that.
00:21:40.060 That's fine.
00:21:40.500 The future that we're trying to create, I think, is also so optimistic when contrasted
00:21:48.300 with the visions that different cultural groups tied to world catastrophes are freaking
00:21:54.420 out about.
00:21:55.420 The environmentalist movement really wants some form of authoritarian government that can
00:21:59.880 control people's actions or brainwash everyone into having the exact same opinions about the
00:22:04.900 environment, which would require a mandatory state school system.
00:22:09.140 Just really horrifying stuff across the board.
00:22:12.200 The anti-AI people, a lot of people don't know this, but I've talked to them.
00:22:15.780 I'm like, realistically, how do you implement this?
00:22:17.480 How do you prevent anyone anywhere in the world from working on these AI technologies?
00:22:21.560 And then they're like, realistically, what they would need is a lattice of Internet of
00:22:26.400 Things around the world that is monitoring everyone all the time.
00:22:30.560 That is the only real way that the anti-AI movement could become a sustainable.
00:22:36.480 So they're not really anti-AI.
00:22:38.060 What they're for is one authoritarian world government AI that they run.
00:22:43.860 That is the end game for most of these organizations.
00:22:46.700 Yeah, no thanks.
00:22:47.900 Yeah, no thanks.
00:22:49.040 I do not think that AI is enough of a risk that we would submit humanity to becoming chattel
00:22:55.580 for you and your bros and your cultural ideas.
00:23:00.320 Because I know that AI isn't going to be just monitoring for AI development.
00:23:04.200 It's going to be monitoring to make sure everybody follows your little cultural subset.
00:23:08.560 And it's a horrifying vision for the future that they really have.
00:23:12.440 And so they have to occlude a vision of the future from their people.
00:23:16.680 And then people, some of the theocrats, they think our vision for the future is horrifying
00:23:20.860 because they're like, what?
00:23:21.760 Like you are pro like gene alteration, you are pro like AI development, you are pro human
00:23:27.120 machine interface.
00:23:28.680 And it's yeah, yeah, you are pro with genetics making allowing people we wouldn't be doing
00:23:35.040 this ourselves.
00:23:35.660 But I am not against the idea.
00:23:37.500 And I know the technology is coming down the pipeline to do things like given elephants,
00:23:42.060 essentially the types of neural density that humans have, and that would allow them to
00:23:47.260 be a completely new type of sentient entity that could interact with the world in completely
00:23:51.500 new ways and thinking completely new ways that would be as orthogonal to us as maybe
00:23:55.980 AI is.
00:23:57.460 I know you wouldn't do that because you're not a big fan of elephants.
00:24:00.540 No, I don't really like elephants that much, whether you're talking dolphins or dogs or
00:24:04.000 something like that.
00:24:04.660 If your response to this is, well, I haven't heard of us being close to that kind of technology.
00:24:09.600 My question would be, if there was a group that was close to this kind of technology and
00:24:13.780 they made it public, would they be shut down?
00:24:15.920 That being the case, the fact that you haven't heard about any group being close to this level
00:24:20.620 of technology means nothing about our actual proximity to this level of technology.
00:24:26.220 In fact, the only people who would know are people with a large public profile and who
00:24:30.420 could be actively useful to the type of person working on this.
00:24:33.180 I think that the world of intelligence is about to get a lot bigger.
00:24:37.240 It's not just human and AIs in the future or human AIs.
00:24:40.620 It's going to be a lot of things out there and that we will create our own aliens before
00:24:46.260 we run into other aliens, I suspect.
00:24:48.860 And by that, what I mean is very alien intelligences, maybe even reviving some extinct branches of
00:24:55.520 man, Neanderthals, stuff like that.
00:24:57.480 And they're like, oh, this is horrifying.
00:24:59.580 What do they really mean?
00:25:00.240 Like, why is it horrifying?
00:25:01.500 Because different things will exist in the future.
00:25:03.860 I think there's this one inclination in the heart of man that fears change when they want
00:25:10.480 everything to stay the same.
00:25:12.200 And I get that.
00:25:13.080 I understand the fear of radical change in society and can we adapt to it?
00:25:18.400 And what differentiates us from them is our answer is resounding, yes, humanity can adapt.
00:25:25.440 Humanity can overcome anything.
00:25:27.140 I believe in the boundless potentiality of man and where we're going as a species.
00:25:33.040 And I have no fear for what man can accomplish when he joins together and sets his differences
00:25:39.640 aside to create a genuinely better future.
00:25:42.480 Because from my perspective, we already live in a utopia.
00:25:45.100 When I contrast the world we live in today was the world of 150 years ago, was the world
00:25:49.800 of...
00:25:50.300 When I look at the world 150 years ago, it was a utopia compared to the world 500 years
00:25:53.820 ago.
00:25:54.040 I'll read the quote from The Martyrdom of Man, this book that was written 200 years ago,
00:25:57.440 right?
00:25:58.340 And as for ourselves, if we are sometimes inclined to regret that our lot is cast in these unhappy
00:26:05.060 days, let us remember how much more fortunate we are than those who lived before us a few
00:26:10.200 centuries ago.
00:26:11.260 The working man enjoys more luxuries today than did the king of England in the Anglo-Saxon
00:26:17.280 times, and at his command are intellectual delights, which but a little while ago the
00:26:22.580 most learned in the land could not obtain.
00:26:25.120 All this we owe the labors of other men.
00:26:28.520 Let us therefore remember them with gratitude.
00:26:31.460 Let us follow their glorious example by adding something new to the knowledge of mankind.
00:26:36.380 Let us pay to the future the debt which we owe the past.
00:26:39.560 And he's saying, yeah, we basically live in a utopia today when contrasted with the old
00:26:43.740 Anglo-Saxon kings.
00:26:44.960 Oh, yeah.
00:26:45.620 Appreciate it.
00:26:46.580 And when I look at this sort of march of history, I don't fear the future, and I think that's
00:26:51.660 required to be within this movement.
00:26:53.040 You have to believe that things are getting better to want so vociferously for humanity
00:26:57.720 to continue.
00:26:58.980 And for those who say there are a lot of pernatalists out there who don't hold this view, there are
00:27:04.020 a lot of people who call themselves pernatalists who have these, like a lot of fears who are,
00:27:07.760 we don't consider them pernatalists.
00:27:09.700 These people are typically racial supremacists or religious groups that are against abortion,
00:27:17.360 but they're not actually pernatalists.
00:27:18.660 Well, what are the religious groups that want their religion to win?
00:27:21.560 They're like, yeah, I want more Catholics.
00:27:24.040 I want more...
00:27:24.680 But that's not about pernatalism.
00:27:26.280 That's about Catholicism, or that's about whatever ethnic group is being provided.
00:27:29.740 It evolves through pernatalism.
00:27:31.440 The existing world architecture has allowed...
00:27:33.260 No, it's solved through pernatalism for their group only.
00:27:35.800 For their group only, pernatalism and conversion, right?
00:27:39.160 And so you see this, like a great example of one of these individuals would be someone
00:27:42.560 like Lyman Stone, where he's nominally a pernatalist, but it's really about promoting
00:27:47.020 Christian ideology.
00:27:48.820 And we see them as being allies to the non-denominational pernatalist movement, which is what you mean
00:27:54.500 when you say really pernatalism.
00:27:55.720 Is their core goal this pluralistic, non-denominational, non-ethnocentric, non-single cultural centric
00:28:04.480 high fertility rate, which is what makes this, when she says not pronatalism, is what makes
00:28:08.560 it not pronatalist, because there is another value system above pronatalism.
00:28:14.560 Yeah.
00:28:14.660 It's another value system which pronatalism is serving.
00:28:17.380 So they're not our enemies in any way.
00:28:19.260 They are our friends.
00:28:20.440 They are working with the pronatalist movement, but they have a different end agenda.
00:28:24.220 And as such, I understand what you're saying.
00:28:26.940 So this is what we mean when we're saying pronatalism.
00:28:28.400 But also within these communities, there also is like that when they are in the pronatalist
00:28:32.760 spaces, because they are often working with people from many different perspectives, they
00:28:36.040 get along so well.
00:28:37.360 Oh, yeah.
00:28:37.920 So yeah, there is, and we talk about this, there is this period of detente now where we
00:28:42.320 have a common enemy that is trying to erase our unique cultures.
00:28:47.780 There could be a point at which some of these groups decide, okay, now we're in a stronger
00:28:53.140 position and we're going to try to force everyone to be like us.
00:28:55.920 At that point, then there will be conflict between these groups.
00:28:58.820 But for now, basically, as long as all these groups are not the dominating culture, they
00:29:05.400 are, they get along really well.
00:29:06.920 Yeah.
00:29:07.080 Yeah.
00:29:07.320 And keep in mind, like when we're talking about like leaning into genetic stuff and stuff,
00:29:10.980 like why does that lead to such a positive perspective?
00:29:12.960 Because we think that these developments, these continued technological perspectives, so long
00:29:16.680 as we can resist their temptation, so long as we can walk through the valley of the
00:29:20.060 lotus eaters, we say this time it's a trial of the lotus eaters, all of these technologies.
00:29:24.500 Elon Musk tweeted recently that we'll be able to, our kids will be able to have AI wives that
00:29:28.560 are like better than any human you could have today and more caring and loving and complete
00:29:33.300 sensory environment.
00:29:34.680 How do you motivate somebody to play this civilizational game when that's the alternative?
00:29:39.560 They have to have an intense belief, like fundamental belief in the future of the human species.
00:29:45.140 And the only other alternative is the fire and brimstone approach, which is to say we need
00:29:49.680 to go back to the old ways we need to.
00:29:51.480 But this fire and brimstone approach, when it is practiced in this context, also isn't
00:29:55.260 very optimistic.
00:29:56.300 This idea that technology destroys everything, every generation is getting worse, we are an
00:30:01.900 eroding society from some past greatness, that belief system, of course, also isn't very
00:30:07.780 optimistic.
00:30:08.560 And so it intrinsically doesn't lead to, we don't choose these things because we are, we
00:30:13.360 decided to choose the most optimistic path.
00:30:15.100 I think it's the most logical path.
00:30:16.540 When I look at humanity's history, I think humanity's history is one of optimism.
00:30:21.580 We have achieved so much of this piece.
00:30:24.000 I always replay the Civ songs and stuff like that, that we see as our songs.
00:30:28.440 And I'll link to them or put a little bit.
00:30:30.220 You're plotting a new course again, aren't you?
00:30:32.620 Occurrents before us are ever changing.
00:30:35.200 We must adapt, press forward if we are to see our journeys end.
00:30:43.360 It is the nature of humankind to push itself toward the horizon.
00:30:55.620 We test our limits.
00:30:59.940 We face our fears.
00:31:02.180 We rise to the challenge and become something greater than ourselves.
00:31:13.380 People should definitely check them out, but I see them as being like the songs of the
00:31:17.580 movement, not just our songs as a relationship, but like this idea of intergenerational improvement
00:31:23.380 and march of civilization.
00:31:24.880 And yeah, sometimes we have setbacks.
00:31:26.240 Yes, sometimes we have conflicts, but there is something beyond our civilization as we understand
00:31:33.000 it now that's going to be as incomprehensible to us as the civilization we have built is
00:31:40.020 to someone just 200, 300 years ago.
00:31:44.120 Yeah.
00:31:44.440 And I think it's, I'm glad you highlighted this.
00:31:46.940 I think it's nice for people to know that there are causes out there that are not stressful
00:31:50.900 because most causes I would say are, but because most causes have to be coercive in order
00:31:55.660 to win by coercive.
00:31:57.180 Like you have to get people who are not on board and not okay with it to be okay with
00:32:00.680 it and not on board before you can win.
00:32:03.240 So for those who would like a non-stressful, fun, optimistic cause, consider joining us.
00:32:10.840 And this is something you see all the time.
00:32:12.140 If you look at the pronatalist subreddit or the antinatalist subreddit, the antinatalist
00:32:15.940 constantly brigade the pronatalist subreddit, like saying mean things, saying angry things
00:32:20.400 against them.
00:32:21.400 The pro is every third post.
00:32:23.000 The pronatalists never brigade the antinatalist subreddit.
00:32:25.300 Because there's no point that, again, they're not part of the conversation.
00:32:28.340 They literally do not matter.
00:32:30.320 And I would appreciate our fans, people in the movement.
00:32:33.320 Don't go and attack the people who are different from you.
00:32:35.280 There's no point.
00:32:36.200 No point.
00:32:37.240 Let's keep the positivity of this movement going.
00:32:39.680 I'm so happy that Kevin Dolan is getting all this attention right now.
00:32:43.560 He got retweeted from the conference by Elon.
00:32:46.640 He's got 8.3 million views on that.
00:32:48.840 He's getting all sorts of interests.
00:32:50.280 And it's just so exciting for me because even though he's in this religious faction of the
00:32:54.780 movement, I like that side is getting traction as well.
00:32:57.560 We need religion.
00:32:58.600 We desperately need religion.
00:33:00.060 We do.
00:33:00.920 And I like Mormonism.
00:33:02.260 I'm glad that the leading individual in the religious faction is a Mormon.
00:33:06.360 No, you know Mormons are the best.
00:33:07.440 One of the most aligned iterations of a religion was this movement.
00:33:11.440 I'm just so excited for what's happening for him and all the positivity, even people like
00:33:15.660 us and him who potentially see the world so differently can work together like this.
00:33:20.700 Yeah.
00:33:21.300 Anyway, I love you.
00:33:22.580 I love the positivity you bring to my life.
00:33:25.460 You are the son of positivity in this universe, but I love you.