Based Camp - The Problem With Being a Pronatalist

00:00:00.000 There's another thing about the pro-natalist movement, and that is what I'd call our Tucker

00:00:04.880 and Dale force versus evil problem.

00:00:07.320 It is about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize people outside

00:00:13.580 of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them as like freaks

00:00:18.060 and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them, and end up like murdering

00:00:23.180 themselves in the process.

00:00:24.380 Oh, good, look, your friends are here.

00:00:25.740 Hey! 0.99

00:00:26.780 You're supposed to want to have children, and this is your ultimate goal in life.

00:00:30.780 It is a very archaic idea, an old idea, and representation of a woman. 0.99

00:00:42.060 So you, you're getting people to sign a pledge basically saying that they will not have children

00:00:47.880 until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.

00:00:52.580 Is that your blood?

00:00:53.660 What, no?

00:00:54.560 No, it's college kid blood.

00:00:56.140 And how many people have signed on so far?

00:00:58.400 1,381, as of right now.

00:01:02.060 I know what this is.

00:01:03.440 This is a suicide pact.

00:01:05.100 Oh my God, that makes so much sense.

00:01:07.000 We have got to hide all of the sharp objects. 1.00

00:01:09.320 Only I was born with a vagina. 1.00

00:01:11.440 Solved that problem. 1.00

00:01:12.200 Amen, sister.

00:01:12.780 Holy mother of God!

00:01:18.240 Some kid.

00:01:20.460 He just hooked himself right into the wood chipper.

00:01:22.740 What?

00:01:23.180 Head first, right into the wood chipper. 0.99

00:01:25.400 It looked like it might have been one of the college kids.

00:01:27.460 Would you like to know more?

00:01:28.500 Hello, Simone. 0.69

00:01:29.540 I am so excited to be talking with you again today back at our old location where we originally

00:01:34.500 started filming, but now we have a hard connection.

00:01:37.040 So you guys get solid video quality from here.

00:01:39.900 But one thing I wanted to think about today is the nature of running the pronatalists or being 1.00

00:01:49.680 leading figures in the pronatalist movement and what that means.

00:01:53.320 And why we look so much younger and less stressed than Greta Thiel.

00:01:56.440 Yeah, because there was an article that came out in Politico about the pronatalist conference.

00:02:00.360 And they noted, they're like, despite it being a fairly glum message, everyone seemed really

00:02:05.160 upbeat and everyone was really optimistic.

00:02:07.240 Yeah, honestly, there was so much laughing, there was so much joking, there was so much

00:02:13.220 lightheartedness, which is funny because demographic collapse is dire and scary.

00:02:20.200 Yeah, it is like climate change, a very scary shift that if not properly planned for is going

00:02:27.960 to hurt the most vulnerable of populations.

00:02:31.120 Oh yeah, millions of people are going to die slow and painful deaths because of this.

00:02:34.400 Conservatively, actually, I'd say probably at least a billion people are going to die a

00:02:38.300 slow and painful death over demographic collapse.

00:02:40.740 And people are like, what do you mean?

00:02:41.920 Come on, that's an exaggeration.

00:02:43.380 And I'm like, okay, or you could look at every state's social security system, every state's

00:02:48.180 Medicare system.

00:02:49.080 How are they going to pay for that?

00:02:50.640 How are they going to pay to keep their elderly alive?

00:02:54.120 Okay, they're not.

00:02:55.620 They're going to die.

00:02:56.780 They're going to starve. 0.93

00:02:57.780 They're going to freeze.

00:02:58.700 And they're not going to get medical treatments.

00:03:00.240 That's what's going to happen as a result of all this.

00:03:03.560 But you might say, then why is it such an upbeat movement?

00:03:07.500 Why is it so low stress to operate?

00:03:10.660 One, and this is something I really noticed at the event itself, is there is no status

00:03:15.400 hierarchy signaling within the movement.

00:03:18.120 While in our Discord server, people do list how many kids they have.

00:03:21.020 That really isn't a sign of status within the movement.

00:03:23.380 Yeah, and one reason, and I just want to emphasize this because this is so freaking

00:03:26.980 important.

00:03:27.340 It does not matter how many kids you have.

00:03:29.380 What matters is how many grandchildren and great-grandchildren you have.

00:03:32.300 If you don't give your kids a great upbringing and they're not super stoked about passing on

00:03:35.760 your culture and having their own kids, you've failed.

00:03:37.940 So I don't care if you have one kid or you have 10 kids.

00:03:40.120 It matters what happens with those kids.

00:03:42.760 Yeah, so one, I think it's the lack of status hierarchy.

00:03:45.480 When I'm in environmentalist stuff, there's a status hierarchy in signaling how much you care

00:03:50.540 about the environment and what you're doing for the environment, which is a very important

00:03:55.140 part of these rallies and events and stuff like that.

00:03:59.300 And it's actually the reason people go to them.

00:04:01.820 That is an absolutely massive part of why it's so low stress.

00:04:05.700 As to why there's no status hierarchy, I can only speculate, but it may be because at many

00:04:13.100 of these other events, people who participate in them are participating in them in part because

00:04:18.620 they have been rejected from other social communities.

00:04:21.600 And so the validation that they get within this community is the only source of validation

00:04:26.080 or place where they can really rank high from a social hierarchy perspective. 0.89

00:04:30.040 So they really focus on masturbating that instinct.

00:04:32.840 But within the pronatalist movement, at least as it stands right now, no one's really involved

00:04:38.940 in it who isn't more famous or more successful was in another community.

00:04:46.120 And that's probably what's causing it.

00:04:48.160 You don't get the nerdy neckbeard types going.

00:04:52.040 The second thing that we could talk about is if you look at the antinatalist movement,

00:04:56.000 you can see that they have unusually high rates of sociopathy and narcissism and stuff

00:05:00.740 like that.

00:05:01.520 And I suspect that if you looked at the pronatalist movement, you would see the exact opposite

00:05:04.960 of unusually high rates of incredibly low anxiety.

00:05:08.900 And low levels of depression.

00:05:10.560 You're not going to be as motivated to have kids if you are depressed, if you struggle with

00:05:17.880 life.

00:05:18.200 So yeah, people who are having kids typically are doing pretty well mentally, financially,

00:05:22.680 physically.

00:05:23.160 And I think a wave of nihilism has overtaken our society.

00:05:27.880 And this wave of nihilism that is particularly popular among the youth to enter a community

00:05:33.440 and the pronatalist community almost necessarily has almost no nihilism in their thinking, has

00:05:39.240 almost no nihilism.

00:05:40.600 Almost none of this, oh, the future isn't going to be great so long as we can fix it.

00:05:44.320 Or the future isn't going to be great for us.

00:05:45.800 I should note here that this wasn't just something that we noticed.

00:05:49.060 Diana Fleischman said, quote, in a tweet, also, it's likely that the natalism conference had

00:05:54.500 the lowest rate of personality and psychiatric disorders of any conference I have attended.

00:05:59.700 And then Boduck said on Twitter, one interesting thing about natal con was that every single

00:06:04.860 attendee was extremely healthy and attractive and well dressed, a welcome relief from normal

00:06:09.240 life.

00:06:09.580 But there's another thing about the pronatalist movement that's really interesting, and it

00:06:14.320 puts it in quite a different position than other activist movements.

00:06:17.480 And that is what I'd call our Tucker and Dale force of evil problem, where there is this

00:06:23.540 scene in the movie where they're just trying to help these college kids, and the college

00:06:27.140 kids think that they're like these horrible villains because they have stereotypes about

00:06:31.120 Republicans, basically, or like rural people.

00:06:33.480 Yeah, like rednecks. 1.00

00:06:34.520 They're basically, the movie is great if you are anti-urban monoculture.

00:06:38.820 It is basically about the way that the people from the urban monoculture dehumanize other

00:06:45.400 people outside of the urban monoculture to such an extent that they can only see them

00:06:49.660 as like freaks and murderers, no matter how nice they're trying to be to them.

00:06:54.460 Why don't you go over there and talk to her? 0.96

00:06:56.060 You got to have some faith in yourself, man.

00:06:58.220 Girls can smell fear. 1.00

00:06:59.540 Now, come on.

00:07:00.400 Whatever you say, just smile and laugh.

00:07:03.940 That shows confidence.

00:07:04.800 You guys, uh, going camping?

00:07:22.520 Hey, now look, we don't want any trouble, all right? 0.98

00:07:31.240 And so they all run out and try to kill these, but they say rednecks, right? 1.00

00:07:35.640 These like basic, very well-meaning conservative people and end up like murdering themselves

00:07:40.160 in the process while these other people are like trying to save them.

00:07:43.380 And there's a scene where he comes back and he goes, I don't know what's going on.

00:07:46.340 I think these people have like a suicide pact or something.

00:07:49.620 And it reminds me of every day I come home to my wife.

00:07:53.140 You're supposed to want to have children and this is your ultimate goal in life.

00:07:57.080 It is a very archaic idea, an old idea and representation of a woman. 0.98

00:08:02.140 Oh, good.

00:08:02.580 Look, your friends are here.

00:08:03.520 Hey! 0.99

00:08:04.340 Yeah!

00:08:05.460 Yeah!

00:08:06.080 Ah!

00:08:08.720 Oh, my God!

00:08:09.980 Oh, my God!

00:08:11.500 Oh, my God!

00:08:12.580 Oh, my God!

00:08:13.100 Oh, my God!

00:08:13.980 And I'm out there, I'm trying to convince people, often from these cultural groups that

00:08:19.940 don't want to have kids, and they will say these horribly mean things to me.

00:08:23.400 And, uh, it's, there's no point in arguing back.

00:08:26.420 There's no point in fighting back really post a point where that your arguments aren't

00:08:30.700 going to land, because to you, they're killing themselves already.

00:08:34.840 Is that your blood?

00:08:35.880 What?

00:08:36.080 No.

00:08:36.800 No, it's college kid blood. 0.99

00:08:38.540 One of those suckers came running out of nowhere and speared themselves straight to 0.99

00:08:41.000 the gut and died right on top of me, Tut! 1.00

00:08:42.840 Holy crap! 0.99

00:08:43.460 Oh, no! 0.99

00:08:44.420 Calm down, calm down, don't cry.

00:08:45.800 They are in this act of sterilization, memetic sterilization or literal castration.

00:08:52.260 I've had two consultations with two different doctors who offered contrasting opinions.

00:08:57.840 I haven't experienced any sexual sensations, so when the doctors are saying an orgasm is

00:09:03.420 like a sneeze, I don't even know what she's talking about. 0.99

00:09:06.040 What girl wants their penis to grow? 1.00

00:09:07.600 Not this girl and not any girl. 1.00

00:09:09.180 If only I was born with a vagina. 1.00

00:09:11.640 Solved that problem. 1.00

00:09:12.460 Amen, sister.

00:09:17.080 Are you okay?

00:09:30.700 They have functionally put upon themselves the worst of the harms that I am trying to prevent.

00:09:40.960 Holy mother of God!

00:09:42.800 Some kid, he just hooked himself right into the wood chipper.

00:09:47.160 What?

00:09:47.620 Head first, right into the wood chipper. 0.99

00:09:49.840 It looked like it might have been one of the college kids.

00:09:51.820 We live mentally in the future, in our future generations.

00:09:56.340 That's where our minds are, and they literally are not there.

00:10:00.500 So it's, there's, we sometimes, I feel like we should respond to emails from like a diligence

00:10:06.480 standpoint.

00:10:07.600 But yeah, we've received some emails recently from antinatalists and whatnot where I'm like,

00:10:11.940 you're not even a, you're not, you are.

00:10:15.040 I almost want to just send them back the video from the life of Brian with the crack suicide squad

00:10:19.640 that's coming to save them.

00:10:21.220 There's no point.

00:10:43.840 There's no point in engaging because they're not part of the discussion that we're having.

00:10:47.600 They're not in the future.

00:10:49.020 So why do we care?

00:10:50.980 Good for them.

00:10:51.940 Do their thing.

00:10:52.980 But.

00:10:53.720 And, and, and, well, it's interesting.

00:10:55.160 So it's, it's, it's also just constantly when you're in online spaces, you generally end

00:11:00.200 up feeling, I don't think you get the same negativity that other people get.

00:11:03.940 So you, you're getting people to sign a pledge, basically saying that they will not have children

00:11:09.320 until the Canadian government takes serious action on climate change.

00:11:13.680 And how many people have signed on so far?

00:11:15.960 1,381 as of right now.

00:11:20.060 Nobody's really, nobody is against it.

00:11:23.020 In the very beginning, I sent it out to a whole bunch, maybe like a hundred of my friends.

00:11:27.500 And I would say like 97, 98 of them signed it.

00:11:30.880 Like in my generation, climate, your fear of climate change isn't an opinion.

00:11:37.680 We don't, it's not like America where people start, like people are, you know, they choose

00:11:43.600 to believe in the climate crisis.

00:11:45.060 We've grown up learning about the science.

00:11:46.840 So we're all, you know, all scared of what the future will hold.

00:11:50.040 I know what this is.

00:11:51.240 This is a suicide pact. 0.99

00:11:52.860 These kids are coming out here and they're killing themselves. 0.99

00:11:55.000 Oh my God.

00:11:55.620 That makes so much sense.

00:11:56.880 We have got to hide all of the sharp objects.

00:11:58.900 Because when I read negativity in online spaces, generally my response is mentally, my thought

00:12:06.080 is, okay, is this an idea that's going to spread, right?

00:12:10.240 Because that's my fear.

00:12:11.160 Like it spreads and it causes more damage.

00:12:12.740 And then is this an idea that's going to spread to people who, if they didn't adopt it, would

00:12:19.280 have made the future a better place?

00:12:21.600 And the answer, it's almost always no.

00:12:24.580 I'll see these people put out these horrible, vile opinions online.

00:12:29.640 I'll see things like these protests at Columbia going on right now.

00:12:32.940 And I'm like, they're not going to have kids.

00:12:35.200 So I don't really need to engage with it.

00:12:37.280 Like they've already done the worst to themselves and they don't see it that way.

00:12:41.560 They don't, because they don't, their conception of the way a human life works is very different

00:12:47.860 from our conception.

00:12:48.760 We see a human life as being an intergenerational thing.

00:12:52.920 It's this intergenerational cycle of improvement that we all have a duty to.

00:12:57.860 Ours is a journey that spans generations where one story ends, another begins.

00:13:07.520 The world our ancestors faced was brutal.

00:13:13.220 Yet from it, they drew life.

00:13:16.540 As Woodward Reed says,

00:13:17.560 All men indeed cannot be poets, inventors, or philanthropists, but all men can join in

00:13:23.120 that gigantic and godlike work, the progress of creation.

00:13:26.920 Whoever improves his own nature improves the universe of which he is a part.

00:13:31.800 He who strives to subdue his evil passions, vile remnants of the old four-footed life, and 0.53

00:13:37.980 who cultivates the social affections.

00:13:39.980 He who endeavors to better his condition and make his children wiser and happier than himself,

00:13:46.660 whatever may be his motives, he will have not lived in vain.

00:13:50.500 But yeah, and I completely agree with that quote.

00:13:52.940 I think that that is how I judge a life well-lived.

00:13:56.540 And I don't, as we've talked about before, ship of Theseus and all that, Simone and I don't

00:14:01.040 believe we are meaningfully the same people who existed 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

00:14:06.240 And when I look at who I am today, and I contrast that person with who I was when I was my child's

00:14:13.340 age, I don't think I am any more the same person as that person than I am my child.

00:14:19.080 And so it's not that we think our children in the way that like many antinatalism framers,

00:14:23.320 we think our children are continuations of us today.

00:14:26.560 We just don't believe that humans are meaningfully that continuous to begin with.

00:14:30.620 And so all we can do is live as sacrifices within every moment to try to improve this

00:14:39.620 intergenerational unit, both myself in the future, but also my kids, my grandkids, everything

00:14:44.840 like that.

00:14:45.820 I think there's another big reason why this is a low stress movement, especially when

00:14:49.580 you compare it to other movements like environmentalism, is that inherently this is a non-coercive

00:14:56.080 movement.

00:14:56.420 And by that, to win, you don't need to get everyone on board with your cause.

00:15:01.280 You don't need to get even a majority, even a large minority of people to do something.

00:15:07.580 And that in itself is very low stress, because it means that you're only getting those who

00:15:12.100 are really enthusiastic to tap into good resources that may already exist.

00:15:17.120 You're not forcing people who are not on board to get on board.

00:15:20.520 And I think something really stressful about being, for example, someone who's trying to get

00:15:25.160 people to take action around climate change.

00:15:28.020 Or let's say you're a vegan and you understand just how horrendous animal cruelty is when people

00:15:33.180 are eating meat and you're trying to convince people to not eat meat.

00:15:36.100 It's incredibly stressful to try to convince people to do anything.

00:15:40.040 And the great thing about prenatalism is we're not forcing or trying to convince anyone who's

00:15:44.600 not into having kids into having kids.

00:15:47.300 We're just like, hey, if you're into kids, here's a community where you get rewarded for that.

00:15:52.380 Here's a community where you get to lead in.

00:15:53.960 And imagine if you were a vegan and you got to achieve an end of animal cruelty by just

00:15:59.440 getting to interact with other really enthusiastic vegans and trade vegan recipes and make really

00:16:03.960 cool vegan foods and invent new vegan foods together instead of trying to get all these

00:16:07.800 non-vegans to stop doing horrendous acts, right? 1.00

00:16:10.920 I swear this scene reminds me of every time we have to talk to reporters and they're like,

00:16:15.620 oh, so you're Nazis. 0.78

00:16:16.760 And I'm like, no, no, no, we're not Nazis.

00:16:18.140 You see, you have to understand the Nazis killed people, lots of people.

00:16:22.640 Like that's why they're a problem.

00:16:24.860 They go, oh, OK, you're violent, far right extremists.

00:16:27.540 Well, OK, we're not violent.

00:16:29.360 And I don't know if the term extremist applies, if it's just, you know, let's keep our civilization

00:16:35.720 afloat.

00:16:36.580 And what's worse is when these reporters are indoctrinated in the urban monoculture, not

00:16:41.000 only do we sound just completely insane to them, but they're always like taking Simone

00:16:46.520 aside and being like, OK, blink once if this is like a hostage situation, expecting that

00:16:52.180 of course, no woman would sign up to associate with these kinds of ideas.

00:16:56.860 So conversations with reporters always go a little like this. 0.98

00:16:59.820 You must think that I'm some kind of moron who believes a story like that. 0.99

00:17:23.680 Not a moron, just open-minded. 1.00

00:17:27.520 You say you are just working when this kid ran up and stuffed his head into that wood chipper. 1.00

00:17:35.900 That's a fact.

00:17:36.580 And, and I think maybe they might be trying to kill the girl that we have inside.

00:17:41.460 She can maybe explain the whole thing if I hadn't knocked her unconscious with a shovel. 1.00

00:17:47.240 On accident.

00:17:48.660 On accident.

00:17:49.600 You've got another one inside.

00:17:51.100 Yeah, she's in my bedroom.

00:17:52.420 This is, I think, really a part, a place where people might misunderstand us is we are not

00:18:03.440 diversity absolutists.

00:18:05.500 So by that, what I mean is a lot of people know that a core purpose of the movement is

00:18:09.280 to preserve some level of human diversity.

00:18:11.340 Like we think that a diverse species, ethnically and culturally, had the better chance of surviving

00:18:16.000 and will be more productive and will be less likely to turn fascist and authoritarian.

00:18:19.600 When people hear that and they're like, oh, so you want to save absolutely every cultural

00:18:24.160 group, absolutely every ethnic group.

00:18:26.400 And no, we are a coalition of the willing.

00:18:29.360 And when somebody stubbornly says no, like I would make the worst Noah ever.

00:18:34.420 I'd go to an animal and I'd be like, hey, you guys should get on the ark.

00:18:38.020 We're trying to save you.

00:18:39.120 And then the unicorns and fairies, they'd be like, hey, honestly, what you're saying sounds

00:18:44.700 a little homophobic about the flood and everything like that.

00:18:47.860 And I'd be like, it has nothing to do with homophobia.

00:18:50.180 I'm just trying to get you guys on the ark because you're going to die if you don't get

00:18:53.220 on.

00:18:53.720 And then there will be no more fairies and there will be no more unicorns. 0.51

00:18:56.880 And they're like, I don't know.

00:18:58.060 I hate you. 1.00

00:18:58.440 I'd be like, fuck off. 1.00

00:18:59.980 I don't care. 1.00

00:19:00.880 Go do your thing.

00:19:01.960 I would be the shortest temper Noah.

00:19:04.400 I know that's why God did not give me that role.

00:19:06.980 I'd just be like, okay, whatever.

00:19:08.160 So often we will have these individuals come to us and I'll see these movements.

00:19:12.360 Like right now, the 4B movement in Korea, it's beginning to spread in the United States, 1.00

00:19:15.920 particularly among some parts of American black culture.

00:19:19.600 And I like American black culture.

00:19:21.000 I would like it to survive.

00:19:22.640 I will do what I can to make them aware of the problem, but I'm not going to force them,

00:19:28.000 you know, and if they're going to jump into the wood chipper in an effort.

00:19:32.500 So the 4Bs is the culture that came from Korea, no sex, no men, no marriage, no kids. 1.00

00:19:37.960 And it is, it seems to be catching on in the black community because black women feel that

00:19:43.240 was in the current American culture.

00:19:45.460 They are not treated with respect by black men and they just don't have any good options.

00:19:49.940 And so that it's better just to not engage with them. 0.87

00:19:52.740 And this is a cultural fight that's not mine to have.

00:19:55.700 It's women trying to spite men that are both outside of my cultural group. 1.00

00:20:00.220 And all I can do is say, you know what, this whole thing you guys have going on is pretty

00:20:04.460 toxic.

00:20:05.140 And I hope that we can save some iteration of black American culture.

00:20:09.020 And I hope it doesn't include you or the people who were susceptible to this.

00:20:13.060 And so it's so interesting in that it's a movement that while, and this is another

00:20:16.780 thing, we talk about the horrifying things that are going to happen.

00:20:19.120 Millions upon billions of slow and painful deaths.

00:20:22.640 And people will be like, why doesn't that stress you out?

00:20:24.800 And this, there's a reason why it doesn't stress us out because we as a movement do not

00:20:29.600 really motivate with fear or with pathos.

00:20:32.700 This is one of the things that a lot of people are like, why don't you go more into the pathos

00:20:36.380 more into the pain and sadness?

00:20:38.340 And I'm like, I don't know.

00:20:39.920 It's just not my thing.

00:20:40.920 The movement's so autistic. 1.00

00:20:42.280 We're just coming out here with stats.

00:20:43.860 This is what's going to happen.

00:20:44.940 And they're like, well, why not lean into the pathos?

00:20:47.360 And it's because I don't believe the pathos.

00:20:48.980 And I'll explain what I mean by that.

00:20:50.040 I believe that people are going to suffer and die.

00:20:52.160 I also believe that no matter what we do, we are not going to make a meaningful impact

00:20:55.820 on that.

00:20:56.600 There really is, unlike the environmentalist movement, which uses the environmental panic

00:21:02.340 to motivate action.

00:21:05.460 Lots of fear mongering.

00:21:06.880 Lots of fear mongering.

00:21:08.860 We don't do that.

00:21:10.300 And because of that, it means that people would be like, the world is going to be in a bad

00:21:15.240 situation and it's going to be that no matter what we do.

00:21:17.700 So why stress?

00:21:18.280 Why stress about the things that are going to happen no matter what?

00:21:20.700 And more important, it's the optimist's movement in that there are some people who are just

00:21:24.860 a little bit more driven by the potential, by the opportunity, by something really cool

00:21:31.660 that could happen than people who are driven by, it's carrot versus stick people.

00:21:35.860 And we're carrot people.

00:21:37.040 It's okay.

00:21:37.960 There are lots of stick people. 1.00

00:21:39.240 They can do that.

00:21:40.060 That's fine.

00:21:40.500 The future that we're trying to create, I think, is also so optimistic when contrasted

00:21:48.300 with the visions that different cultural groups tied to world catastrophes are freaking

00:21:54.420 out about.

00:21:55.420 The environmentalist movement really wants some form of authoritarian government that can

00:21:59.880 control people's actions or brainwash everyone into having the exact same opinions about the

00:22:04.900 environment, which would require a mandatory state school system.

00:22:09.140 Just really horrifying stuff across the board.

00:22:12.200 The anti-AI people, a lot of people don't know this, but I've talked to them.

00:22:15.780 I'm like, realistically, how do you implement this?

00:22:17.480 How do you prevent anyone anywhere in the world from working on these AI technologies?

00:22:21.560 And then they're like, realistically, what they would need is a lattice of Internet of

00:22:26.400 Things around the world that is monitoring everyone all the time.

00:22:30.560 That is the only real way that the anti-AI movement could become a sustainable.

00:22:36.480 So they're not really anti-AI.

00:22:38.060 What they're for is one authoritarian world government AI that they run.

00:22:43.860 That is the end game for most of these organizations.

00:22:46.700 Yeah, no thanks.

00:22:47.900 Yeah, no thanks.

00:22:49.040 I do not think that AI is enough of a risk that we would submit humanity to becoming chattel

00:22:55.580 for you and your bros and your cultural ideas.

00:23:00.320 Because I know that AI isn't going to be just monitoring for AI development.

00:23:04.200 It's going to be monitoring to make sure everybody follows your little cultural subset. 0.58

00:23:08.560 And it's a horrifying vision for the future that they really have.

00:23:12.440 And so they have to occlude a vision of the future from their people.

00:23:16.680 And then people, some of the theocrats, they think our vision for the future is horrifying

00:23:20.860 because they're like, what?

00:23:21.760 Like you are pro like gene alteration, you are pro like AI development, you are pro human

00:23:27.120 machine interface.

00:23:28.680 And it's yeah, yeah, you are pro with genetics making allowing people we wouldn't be doing

00:23:35.040 this ourselves.

00:23:35.660 But I am not against the idea.

00:23:37.500 And I know the technology is coming down the pipeline to do things like given elephants,

00:23:42.060 essentially the types of neural density that humans have, and that would allow them to

00:23:47.260 be a completely new type of sentient entity that could interact with the world in completely

00:23:51.500 new ways and thinking completely new ways that would be as orthogonal to us as maybe

00:23:55.980 AI is.

00:23:57.460 I know you wouldn't do that because you're not a big fan of elephants.

00:24:00.540 No, I don't really like elephants that much, whether you're talking dolphins or dogs or

00:24:04.000 something like that.

00:24:04.660 If your response to this is, well, I haven't heard of us being close to that kind of technology.

00:24:09.600 My question would be, if there was a group that was close to this kind of technology and

00:24:13.780 they made it public, would they be shut down?

00:24:15.920 That being the case, the fact that you haven't heard about any group being close to this level

00:24:20.620 of technology means nothing about our actual proximity to this level of technology.

00:24:26.220 In fact, the only people who would know are people with a large public profile and who

00:24:30.420 could be actively useful to the type of person working on this.

00:24:33.180 I think that the world of intelligence is about to get a lot bigger.

00:24:37.240 It's not just human and AIs in the future or human AIs.

00:24:40.620 It's going to be a lot of things out there and that we will create our own aliens before

00:24:46.260 we run into other aliens, I suspect.

00:24:48.860 And by that, what I mean is very alien intelligences, maybe even reviving some extinct branches of

00:24:55.520 man, Neanderthals, stuff like that.

00:24:57.480 And they're like, oh, this is horrifying.

00:24:59.580 What do they really mean?

00:25:00.240 Like, why is it horrifying?

00:25:01.500 Because different things will exist in the future.

00:25:03.860 I think there's this one inclination in the heart of man that fears change when they want

00:25:10.480 everything to stay the same.

00:25:12.200 And I get that.

00:25:13.080 I understand the fear of radical change in society and can we adapt to it?

00:25:18.400 And what differentiates us from them is our answer is resounding, yes, humanity can adapt.

00:25:25.440 Humanity can overcome anything.

00:25:27.140 I believe in the boundless potentiality of man and where we're going as a species.

00:25:33.040 And I have no fear for what man can accomplish when he joins together and sets his differences

00:25:39.640 aside to create a genuinely better future.

00:25:42.480 Because from my perspective, we already live in a utopia.

00:25:45.100 When I contrast the world we live in today was the world of 150 years ago, was the world

00:25:49.800 of...

00:25:50.300 When I look at the world 150 years ago, it was a utopia compared to the world 500 years

00:25:53.820 ago.

00:25:54.040 I'll read the quote from The Martyrdom of Man, this book that was written 200 years ago,

00:25:57.440 right?

00:25:58.340 And as for ourselves, if we are sometimes inclined to regret that our lot is cast in these unhappy

00:26:05.060 days, let us remember how much more fortunate we are than those who lived before us a few

00:26:10.200 centuries ago.

00:26:11.260 The working man enjoys more luxuries today than did the king of England in the Anglo-Saxon

00:26:17.280 times, and at his command are intellectual delights, which but a little while ago the

00:26:22.580 most learned in the land could not obtain.

00:26:25.120 All this we owe the labors of other men.

00:26:28.520 Let us therefore remember them with gratitude.

00:26:31.460 Let us follow their glorious example by adding something new to the knowledge of mankind.

00:26:36.380 Let us pay to the future the debt which we owe the past.

00:26:39.560 And he's saying, yeah, we basically live in a utopia today when contrasted with the old 0.99

00:26:43.740 Anglo-Saxon kings.

00:26:44.960 Oh, yeah.

00:26:45.620 Appreciate it.

00:26:46.580 And when I look at this sort of march of history, I don't fear the future, and I think that's

00:26:51.660 required to be within this movement.

00:26:53.040 You have to believe that things are getting better to want so vociferously for humanity

00:26:57.720 to continue.

00:26:58.980 And for those who say there are a lot of pernatalists out there who don't hold this view, there are

00:27:04.020 a lot of people who call themselves pernatalists who have these, like a lot of fears who are,

00:27:07.760 we don't consider them pernatalists.

00:27:09.700 These people are typically racial supremacists or religious groups that are against abortion,

00:27:17.360 but they're not actually pernatalists.

00:27:18.660 Well, what are the religious groups that want their religion to win?

00:27:21.560 They're like, yeah, I want more Catholics. 0.87

00:27:24.040 I want more...

00:27:24.680 But that's not about pernatalism.

00:27:26.280 That's about Catholicism, or that's about whatever ethnic group is being provided. 0.55

00:27:29.740 It evolves through pernatalism.

00:27:31.440 The existing world architecture has allowed...

00:27:33.260 No, it's solved through pernatalism for their group only.

00:27:35.800 For their group only, pernatalism and conversion, right? 0.85

00:27:39.160 And so you see this, like a great example of one of these individuals would be someone

00:27:42.560 like Lyman Stone, where he's nominally a pernatalist, but it's really about promoting

00:27:47.020 Christian ideology.

00:27:48.820 And we see them as being allies to the non-denominational pernatalist movement, which is what you mean

00:27:54.500 when you say really pernatalism.

00:27:55.720 Is their core goal this pluralistic, non-denominational, non-ethnocentric, non-single cultural centric

00:28:04.480 high fertility rate, which is what makes this, when she says not pronatalism, is what makes

00:28:08.560 it not pronatalist, because there is another value system above pronatalism.

00:28:14.560 Yeah.

00:28:14.660 It's another value system which pronatalism is serving.

00:28:17.380 So they're not our enemies in any way.

00:28:19.260 They are our friends.

00:28:20.440 They are working with the pronatalist movement, but they have a different end agenda.

00:28:24.220 And as such, I understand what you're saying.

00:28:26.940 So this is what we mean when we're saying pronatalism.

00:28:28.400 But also within these communities, there also is like that when they are in the pronatalist

00:28:32.760 spaces, because they are often working with people from many different perspectives, they

00:28:36.040 get along so well.

00:28:37.360 Oh, yeah.

00:28:37.920 So yeah, there is, and we talk about this, there is this period of detente now where we

00:28:42.320 have a common enemy that is trying to erase our unique cultures.

00:28:47.780 There could be a point at which some of these groups decide, okay, now we're in a stronger

00:28:53.140 position and we're going to try to force everyone to be like us.

00:28:55.920 At that point, then there will be conflict between these groups.

00:28:58.820 But for now, basically, as long as all these groups are not the dominating culture, they

00:29:05.400 are, they get along really well.

00:29:06.920 Yeah.

00:29:07.080 Yeah.

00:29:07.320 And keep in mind, like when we're talking about like leaning into genetic stuff and stuff,

00:29:10.980 like why does that lead to such a positive perspective?

00:29:12.960 Because we think that these developments, these continued technological perspectives, so long

00:29:16.680 as we can resist their temptation, so long as we can walk through the valley of the

00:29:20.060 lotus eaters, we say this time it's a trial of the lotus eaters, all of these technologies.

00:29:24.500 Elon Musk tweeted recently that we'll be able to, our kids will be able to have AI wives that

00:29:28.560 are like better than any human you could have today and more caring and loving and complete

00:29:33.300 sensory environment.

00:29:34.680 How do you motivate somebody to play this civilizational game when that's the alternative?

00:29:39.560 They have to have an intense belief, like fundamental belief in the future of the human species.

00:29:45.140 And the only other alternative is the fire and brimstone approach, which is to say we need

00:29:49.680 to go back to the old ways we need to.

00:29:51.480 But this fire and brimstone approach, when it is practiced in this context, also isn't

00:29:55.260 very optimistic.

00:29:56.300 This idea that technology destroys everything, every generation is getting worse, we are an

00:30:01.900 eroding society from some past greatness, that belief system, of course, also isn't very

00:30:07.780 optimistic.

00:30:08.560 And so it intrinsically doesn't lead to, we don't choose these things because we are, we

00:30:13.360 decided to choose the most optimistic path.

00:30:15.100 I think it's the most logical path.

00:30:16.540 When I look at humanity's history, I think humanity's history is one of optimism.

00:30:21.580 We have achieved so much of this piece.

00:30:24.000 I always replay the Civ songs and stuff like that, that we see as our songs.

00:30:28.440 And I'll link to them or put a little bit.

00:30:30.220 You're plotting a new course again, aren't you?

00:30:32.620 Occurrents before us are ever changing.

00:30:35.200 We must adapt, press forward if we are to see our journeys end.

00:30:43.360 It is the nature of humankind to push itself toward the horizon.

00:30:55.620 We test our limits.

00:30:59.940 We face our fears.

00:31:02.180 We rise to the challenge and become something greater than ourselves.

00:31:13.380 People should definitely check them out, but I see them as being like the songs of the

00:31:17.580 movement, not just our songs as a relationship, but like this idea of intergenerational improvement

00:31:23.380 and march of civilization.

00:31:24.880 And yeah, sometimes we have setbacks.

00:31:26.240 Yes, sometimes we have conflicts, but there is something beyond our civilization as we understand

00:31:33.000 it now that's going to be as incomprehensible to us as the civilization we have built is

00:31:40.020 to someone just 200, 300 years ago.

00:31:44.120 Yeah.

00:31:44.440 And I think it's, I'm glad you highlighted this.

00:31:46.940 I think it's nice for people to know that there are causes out there that are not stressful

00:31:50.900 because most causes I would say are, but because most causes have to be coercive in order

00:31:55.660 to win by coercive.

00:31:57.180 Like you have to get people who are not on board and not okay with it to be okay with

00:32:00.680 it and not on board before you can win.

00:32:03.240 So for those who would like a non-stressful, fun, optimistic cause, consider joining us.

00:32:10.840 And this is something you see all the time.

00:32:12.140 If you look at the pronatalist subreddit or the antinatalist subreddit, the antinatalist

00:32:15.940 constantly brigade the pronatalist subreddit, like saying mean things, saying angry things

00:32:20.400 against them.

00:32:21.400 The pro is every third post.

00:32:23.000 The pronatalists never brigade the antinatalist subreddit.

00:32:25.300 Because there's no point that, again, they're not part of the conversation.

00:32:28.340 They literally do not matter.

00:32:30.320 And I would appreciate our fans, people in the movement.

00:32:33.320 Don't go and attack the people who are different from you.

00:32:35.280 There's no point.

00:32:36.200 No point.

00:32:37.240 Let's keep the positivity of this movement going.

00:32:39.680 I'm so happy that Kevin Dolan is getting all this attention right now.

00:32:43.560 He got retweeted from the conference by Elon.

00:32:46.640 He's got 8.3 million views on that.

00:32:48.840 He's getting all sorts of interests.

00:32:50.280 And it's just so exciting for me because even though he's in this religious faction of the

00:32:54.780 movement, I like that side is getting traction as well.

00:32:57.560 We need religion.

00:32:58.600 We desperately need religion.

00:33:00.060 We do.

00:33:00.920 And I like Mormonism.

00:33:02.260 I'm glad that the leading individual in the religious faction is a Mormon.

00:33:06.360 No, you know Mormons are the best.

00:33:07.440 One of the most aligned iterations of a religion was this movement.

00:33:11.440 I'm just so excited for what's happening for him and all the positivity, even people like

00:33:15.660 us and him who potentially see the world so differently can work together like this.

00:33:20.700 Yeah.

00:33:21.300 Anyway, I love you.

00:33:22.580 I love the positivity you bring to my life.

00:33:25.460 You are the son of positivity in this universe, but I love you.

Based Camp - May 10, 2024

The Problem With Being a Pronatalist

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