Based Camp - December 15, 2023


This Years Demographic Data Was Worse than Anyone Expected (Yes, Even Us)

Topics
year-over-year fertility decline war tradition
Hosted by
Malcolm Collins Simone Collins
Mentioned
Malcolm Simone Scott Alexander Jonathan Haidt Claude Kiss
Replatform A Conference Fighting the Virus with David Ragsdale Who's Killing More Babies, Us or Catholics

Episode Stats


Length

42 minutes

Words per minute

186.61

Word count

7,877

Sentence count

680

Harmful content

Misogyny

40

sentences flagged

Toxicity

31

sentences flagged

Hate speech

37

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about the alarming decline in fertility in some of the world s most important countries, and why we should all be worried about it. We also talk about what we can do about it, and how we can prevent it.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 And again, this is like men are losing their status.
00:00:02.440 They're checking out.
00:00:03.360 They're not getting educated.
00:00:04.260 They're not getting jobs.
00:00:05.080 They're getting depressed.
00:00:06.460 And it's showing up differently.
00:00:07.720 Like, you know, I think generally women are much more likely to publicly complain about things and identify as depressed and say all these things.
00:00:14.920 Whereas men don't. 0.99
00:00:16.240 They're very quiet and they silently suffer and they just back out of society.
00:00:19.600 Would you like to know more?
00:00:20.820 So we're going to go over these numbers.
00:00:22.420 This is year over year fertility decline in these countries.
00:00:26.840 So you already know one number.
00:00:28.360 In Korea, year over year for Q3, it was, what, 14%?
00:00:35.480 I thought it was 11%.
00:00:37.700 It was just incredibly hot.
00:00:40.180 Like double digits decrease in a country that's already doing that bad.
00:00:42.760 And Seoul's already at 0.53 fertility. 0.78
00:00:45.760 Rat row.
00:00:47.660 So here we go.
00:00:49.800 Romania, 19.4% decrease year over year.
00:00:55.040 Latvia, 19% decrease year over year.
00:00:59.260 Lithuania, 17.8% decrease year over year.
00:01:03.960 Estonia, 16.3% decrease year over year.
00:01:08.700 Mongolia, 16.1%.
00:01:11.640 I don't know what this is.
00:01:13.920 Federation BIH, 10.10%.
00:01:17.200 Serbia.
00:01:18.420 Oh no, it's not Hungary.
00:01:20.600 Is, is 9.1%.
00:01:24.020 Netherlands is 9%.
00:01:27.900 Belgium is 8.5%.
00:01:30.820 Russia is 8.4%.
00:01:32.860 Croatia is 8.2%.
00:01:34.920 Hungary is 6.6%.
00:01:38.100 Armenia is 6.1%.
00:01:39.900 Thailand is 5.9%.
00:01:41.620 Kosovo is 4.4%, 4.1%.
00:01:45.580 Uzbekistan is only 3% or 2.8%.
00:01:50.760 So not that bad.
00:01:51.620 Good for you.
00:01:52.880 Poland, 17.6%.
00:01:54.800 Ouch.
00:01:55.800 And Japan is 11.9%.
00:01:59.440 So roughly the same as what we saw for South Korea, if memory serves.
00:02:03.800 If you are somebody who works in the field of statistics, a double-digit year over year decrease is catastrophic.
00:02:18.060 Catastrophic.
00:02:18.880 This is not like a small thing.
00:02:20.540 This is not an irrelevant thing.
00:02:22.940 Yeah.
00:02:23.400 And we're talking with people about this day in, day out.
00:02:26.820 Yesterday we had like a 90-minute conversation with someone writing a book about this.
00:02:30.820 And this is where sort of like I read something this morning that now like, because, you know, our solutions to prenatalism, they're like very gender egalitarian.
00:02:42.700 They're like, how do we make this work in a society where we keep high levels of education, high levels of prosperity, high levels of gender equality and choice, and also the choice to not get married and not have kids if you don't want to.
00:02:55.380 And I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
00:02:56.880 But then I'm reading this Substack, and I'll tell you more about it, and I'm just like, oh, man. 0.54
00:03:01.380 So I'd never heard of this author on Substack before.
00:03:05.880 Arctotherium is his name.
00:03:07.720 And he writes in this analysis of the baby boom, assuming he's a he, for reasons that will become apparent later in my rant about all this, that basically nations that have undergone a first demographic transition, sort of, you know, when a nation becomes prosperous and more gender egalitarian and blah, blah, blah.
00:03:30.140 And with more education, they start to see a decline in fertility.
00:03:33.600 And he argues that baby booms prove that this decline can be reversible.
00:03:39.400 Okay, great.
00:03:40.080 You know, that's hopeful.
00:03:40.800 And I'm like, this is going to be great.
00:03:41.980 I want to read this.
00:03:42.600 I want to hear his analysis as to what it is that drives a baby boom, you know, and so that maybe we can, like, come to new ideas.
00:03:50.060 And I can read someone else's ideas on what might aid pronatalism in an era of demographic collapse.
00:03:56.540 And it seems, you know, like, I'm reading this, and it seems like we're very much on the same page with values.
00:04:02.200 He writes, quote,
00:04:03.080 And I'm like,
00:04:33.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally agree.
00:04:34.640 So, like, we're on the same page.
00:04:35.700 Okay, okay, okay.
00:04:36.700 Yeah, I'm like, okay, okay.
00:04:37.560 Like, he's got me.
00:04:38.800 He's got me.
00:04:39.620 Yeah, right.
00:04:40.180 And then, and he, he, he then connects baby booms, this magical reversal that we're all trying to make happen to marriage booms.
00:04:48.640 And I'm like, okay, this totally makes sense.
00:04:50.340 We agree.
00:04:51.120 This is, you know, a crisis of relationships.
00:04:54.220 Absolutely.
00:04:54.660 What he does quite compellingly with tons of graphs and a lot of stats is show that really marriage is, is a big driving factor here more than I had thought when it came to specifically baby booms.
00:05:08.440 You know, he points out that, for example, most fertility and the highest fertility is with monogamous married couples, that couples that stay married have the most kids.
00:05:17.040 And, and we've seen this from other people, too.
00:05:19.000 There's a shocking statistic here that you had told me.
00:05:21.400 Like, of people who stay married for X of many years, something percent of them have a kid?
00:05:25.440 Like, they have a lot of kids.
00:05:27.700 Like, they're, like, average fertility is quite high, but I can't remember exactly what it is.
00:05:31.320 But, like, several, several people from very different philosophical camps within the pronatalist movement all have this thing of, like, you know, monogamous marriage is a very key driver of fertility.
00:05:43.260 So, I'm like, okay, like.
00:05:44.500 I'm trying to remember this.
00:05:45.880 It's something like, on average, a couple that stays married for 30 years has an average number of, like, 4.5 kids.
00:05:53.440 Yeah, it's a really high number of kids.
00:05:55.840 And, yeah, I have to look up that stuff.
00:05:57.600 It sounds unbelievable.
00:05:58.520 We'll find it.
00:05:59.100 Yeah, it did seem unbelievable.
00:06:00.600 But it's, you know, I think it's easy for anyone to agree that, yes, you know, like, stably married couples.
00:06:06.020 And he has a lot of graphs in this.
00:06:07.660 And we'll, of course, link to the Substack post that sort of show, like, the fertility for married couples living together, married couples with a partner that's absent, separated couples, and, like, various levels of divorce and singlehood.
00:06:19.500 And, obviously, like, highest fertility is a thing.
00:06:22.620 And, clearly, I mean, even among our friends who are super prenatalist, the ones that have the most kids have a partner who's there to help them with the kids, obviously.
00:06:29.740 This is not rocket science.
00:06:31.600 So, then this author proceeds to say, okay, so what caused this marriage boom?
00:06:37.340 He says the answer appears to be a rise in young men's status compared to young women's. 0.70
00:06:41.860 Now, that was interesting to me.
00:06:43.080 I haven't heard anyone talk about this before.
00:06:44.680 So, I'm like, okay, I'm intrigued.
00:06:46.060 This is good.
00:06:46.560 I'm getting my popcorn out.
00:06:47.700 I'm chewing.
00:06:48.900 This is good.
00:06:50.020 He writes, the marriage boom can be explained almost entirely by a combination of female labor force participation down, young male wages up, and male employment down.
00:07:01.560 And now I'm like, ooh.
00:07:02.640 Like, I'm a little nervous.
00:07:03.840 Male employment up or male employment down is what you meant to say.
00:07:06.020 Yeah, male unemployment down, meaning male employment up.
00:07:08.220 So, like, I'm starting to get a little nervous because there is this camp within prenatalism, right, that's like, well, the whole problem is when women got educated, and then they got on the pill, and then they, and so what we have to do is just stop, stop female education and put them back in the home. 1.00
00:07:25.180 Okay, continue, continue.
00:07:26.560 So, I'm, like, getting a little nervous.
00:07:27.780 I'm like, oh, man, is he, like, one of these guys?
00:07:30.480 But here's where he, like, gets, like, the roller coaster is going back up.
00:07:34.280 Like, I'm like, okay, this is good because he says, note that what matters here is relative gains, not absolute gains.
00:07:40.800 Women did not make less money during the baby boom, he means, and were not less educated in 1960 as compared to 1930, merely less so in comparison to their male peers.
00:07:51.860 The mechanism here is clear.
00:07:53.820 Young women want money and status. 1.00
00:07:55.980 Young men have relatively more money and status.
00:07:58.620 Women can get men's money and status by marrying them. 1.00
00:08:01.800 Marriage leads to babies, thus the baby boom. 0.59
00:08:03.860 And I'm like, oh, man, like, okay, this is resonating again.
00:08:08.000 You're kind of right there.
00:08:09.600 Okay, continue, continue.
00:08:11.620 Right?
00:08:11.960 Well, and I just want to make a note here that, like, a big problem that we have encountered when trying to matchmake friends and when we talk with people about relationship markets and whatnot is this problem of women really wanting a man who is higher in status than them.
00:08:24.480 Even if they're super feminist, even if they're super, you know, independent, they still want a guy who's higher in status than them. 1.00
00:08:29.800 So this male, this, like, relative male status thing is totally real.
00:08:33.060 No matter how progressive you are, you know, no matter how woke you are, you're still super into that.
00:08:37.740 So totally agree.
00:08:38.980 But then here's where I'm like, but like, is he right?
00:08:42.000 But like, oh, is he says what ended the baby boom in three words, second wave feminism.
00:08:47.880 By this, I mean, the suite of changes referred to as the sexual revolution, no fault divorce, normalization of premarital sex, delegitimization of marriage as an normative form of family, combined with a concerted political campaign to raise women's relative economic and social status. 0.65
00:09:04.600 Okay. So I totally agree with some things here. And I'm like, oh, with other things.
00:09:10.660 So his prescriptions, and let's just discuss his prescriptions one by one. So we'll stop after each one.
00:09:15.520 But hold on, before you get further, there was something you would talk to me about this morning, which I think is important for people to understand is he did a very good job of showing that historically what people have argued is like, it's the pill that causes.
00:09:25.540 Right. And so he showed it in graphs when the pill was introduced versus when various women's rights movements happened and succeeded.
00:09:35.800 Yeah.
00:09:36.140 And it seems to correlate much more with women's rights than it does with the pill or any sort of fertility.
00:09:42.320 And this is tentative. This is not a perfect argument because after I read this, the one graph he showed was the legalization of the pill in Japan.
00:09:50.780 And he demonstrated that fertility plummeted in Japan before the pill became publicly like widely available, but after second wave feminism started to have influence.
00:10:02.680 Now, I push back on that a little bit because one, I know how culturally behind on picking like up trends Japan has been.
00:10:09.300 I mean, when my parents were in Japan in the 80s, it was second wave feminism was not exactly a thing. 1.00
00:10:16.040 Like, I think I think he's totally off there. He's grasping at straws when you actually look at the release of the pill and second wave feminism making its rise.
00:10:24.940 And I had Claude sort of walk me through both of them. You know, I I got the legalization of of the pill at various stages.
00:10:32.640 And then I also saw like the various like big milestones, like big publications and protests and media events for second wave feminism that would have spread those ideas and led to normalization. 0.52
00:10:40.940 It'll happen at the same time. These things are so intertwined. I think it's impossible for someone to successfully parse them out and using Japan as an example is just not.
00:10:49.140 So I I question his methods here. I still think it's compelling argument. And I do think, frankly, and you and I agree, it is culture and not scientific intervention.
00:10:57.360 So I don't think the the pill is is any more strongly influential on pronatalism as a legalizing abortion is like we found that when you make abortion illegal, it doesn't bring back birth rates.
00:11:10.560 Right. So like this is, you know, may temporarily cause a spike, but it doesn't permanently cause a spike.
00:11:16.840 So, again, I I don't think he's wrong, but I do question his methods. Anyway, that's kind of beside the point.
00:11:21.260 I think he makes an extremely strong argument. And this idea of relative male status to female status is really important.
00:11:28.380 What I find nice about it is his point that, like, this doesn't mean female disempowerment.
00:11:32.220 This doesn't mean women work in the home like this doesn't mean that, you know, women is not a handmaid's tale scenario that he's asking for at all.
00:11:38.880 He's just saying you got to give men a chance to excel in society really fundamentally.
00:11:44.540 But let's go back to his prescriptions. So I think they're actually quite interesting.
00:11:48.780 And this is a this is a clever guy. He he encourages first roll back the welfare and pension state and lower income taxes.
00:11:58.020 This is interesting. He argues this because he believes that a lot of the lack of dependence on marriage and lack of interest in marriage is that, you know, women can do just fine without a partner.
00:12:10.060 And a lot of that's because of welfare. He believes that women are disproportionately reliant on welfare and able to qualify for welfare, which is, I think, accurate. 1.00
00:12:19.140 Oh, oh, did you hear about the thing about I think it was welfare or something that one of our friends was telling us about women versus men and they were like, men basically never, ever qualify for this program.
00:12:29.680 That makes sense.
00:12:30.720 The people think that they do like it's broadly equal access.
00:12:34.420 It really isn't. I think it was welfare. I think it was it might not have been welfare.
00:12:38.640 It was something like welfare. It was very social programs.
00:12:41.520 It was a government assistance program. Yeah.
00:12:43.720 And it turned out that while it says it's open to both genders, it's really not.
00:12:47.960 They're like, look, I work in the approvals department and we approve like five men a year.
00:12:52.420 Oh, God.
00:12:53.040 And in literally just tons and tons and tons of women. Yeah. 1.00
00:12:57.100 Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with that. And I think that that is a dampener on marriage.
00:13:01.100 And I mean, in general, I think that you and I would argue that we would prefer from a peronatalist perspective, but also from like a societal health perspective, that local communities offer these amenities more than the government.
00:13:15.000 The government offering these amenities causes problems, disempowerment, poor services, actually, like not really good service provision.
00:13:22.260 Whereas like if you live in a tightly knit Catholic community, Mormon community, Jewish community, Amish community, whatever, and they provide this support to community members, you're going to get higher quality, higher cultural fidelity, better mental health, et cetera.
00:13:35.720 So I don't disagree with him on this. I'm kind of cool with this.
00:13:38.640 So then on to the next one. And this is also super interesting.
00:13:41.560 And we love it, but for different reasons, he argues that we should roll back the regulatory state.
00:13:47.640 Why? He says affirmative action in favor of women is common across the baby boom countries, as is disproportionate female employment in state-created regulatory jobs, such as human resources.
00:14:01.740 So he's basically saying that like a lot of women have employment and positions and incomes because of massive, sprawling government bureaucracy and rules and regulations that like a gynocracy. 1.00
00:14:15.280 How do you outcompete men in bureaucracies? 0.52
00:14:17.060 Exactly.
00:14:17.200 It's one of the areas where women do really well in bureaucracies. 1.00
00:14:20.320 Exactly, exactly. So if you get rid of the bureaucracy, you're getting rid of, this headband is not staying in, you're getting rid of, you're getting rid of a lot of female employment. 1.00
00:14:29.580 So he's like, well, you know, one way we can get women more dependent on men, or at least like lower in status, is by removing government bureaucracy.
00:14:37.120 I mean, you and I are super in favor of anything that eliminates government bureaucracy.
00:14:40.700 It hadn't occurred to me that this would disproportionately affect women's employment. 0.97
00:14:47.700 So I'm like, ah, but at the same time, no, rip off the bandaid.
00:14:51.980 Like he's right. One, this is like, this is not helpful bureaucracy.
00:14:55.880 It is toxic.
00:14:56.480 And again, like we're not removing women's opportunity to get work. 0.97
00:15:02.980 We're just removing an industry that we think is a cancerous growth that also like, you know, is disproportionately favoring them kind of in an unfair way.
00:15:14.300 So, okay, that's the next one.
00:15:15.460 So do you kind of agree?
00:15:16.460 Yeah, I agree with that.
00:15:19.620 I don't agree with everything.
00:15:20.420 I'm going to get to where I don't agree when you're done with these.
00:15:22.280 Okay. All right.
00:15:22.980 This is fun.
00:15:24.520 So the other is he wants to end affirmative action for women and ban or de facto ban as similar lobbying organizations for men are the thousands of organizations, scholarships, and programs that exist to promote women's career success.
00:15:37.280 This is interesting.
00:15:38.580 I agree.
00:15:39.260 I strongly agree with this.
00:15:39.900 I think if you are sane and you look at the statistics, people are like, oh, whatever gap.
00:15:47.580 Yeah.
00:15:47.840 Wage gap.
00:15:48.460 No, no, no. 1.00
00:15:48.840 That is, it's bullshit. 1.00
00:15:50.640 It's that that's over. 1.00
00:15:53.340 We've, we've solved the problem.
00:15:54.980 And I think at this point now, and I've, I've seen this happen.
00:15:57.140 Like I was, we were currently at a, a few, a few weeks ago, we were at a retreat with a lot of really high performing people in government and media, et cetera.
00:16:05.160 And I, I came across a couple of people whose primary complaint about their job and their organization and their industry was that there were a bunch of, of affirmative action people who were like totally fine people, smart, wonderful, whatever.
00:16:21.140 But they were just, they were simply not qualified for the position and they were in it and it was hurting the organization.
00:16:26.980 And these people care deeply about the missions of their organizations and they were just so frustrated by the fact that like, that people were getting promotions, people were getting positions that they frankly just weren't qualified for.
00:16:38.480 So I'm against this in principle.
00:16:40.880 I'm not against this because I'm like anti-woman. 1.00
00:16:42.560 I'm just like, listen, if you're not qualified for it, you should not get the job.
00:16:45.660 So I totally agree with him here.
00:16:46.900 And this is like these board positions they have in California where you have a certain number of women on your board. 1.00
00:16:50.580 And we know women who just like professionally take these positions. 1.00
00:16:53.500 Yeah.
00:16:53.900 And it is, and they're not qualified.
00:16:55.760 Yeah.
00:16:56.060 It's like an exploit that they figured out.
00:16:58.040 Well, I think the other issue that we found with a lot of these affirmative action things is like they don't serve actually persecuted or.
00:17:05.220 No, they don't.
00:17:06.140 No, they serve very intelligent, already wealthy, already well-connected people who are smart enough and well-connected enough to even know about these opportunities.
00:17:14.440 What they do is they serve to increase equality among the friend group of the people within power in our society.
00:17:21.300 Yeah.
00:17:21.400 Yeah.
00:17:21.460 So the people who are legislating these laws and stuff like that, they're like, oh, are my friends more employed?
00:17:29.220 Are my female friends more employed? 1.00
00:17:31.040 Yes, they are.
00:17:32.300 Now that we demand that boards take on women? 1.00
00:17:33.200 Yeah.
00:17:33.620 Yeah.
00:17:33.960 Of course they are now.
00:17:35.540 So it's all.
00:17:36.420 But it's like the same 35 women, you know, or like the same 35 insert, you know, diversity quota thing here. 1.00
00:17:43.180 Yeah.
00:17:43.680 It's totally so.
00:17:44.620 I totally agree.
00:17:45.360 Here's another one that we super agree with that is also like, that I like, you know, for the reasons he's into it.
00:17:51.200 But I'm like, ah, but yeah.
00:17:52.860 Okay.
00:17:53.180 Okay.
00:17:54.700 Defund education.
00:17:56.060 Because right now women, I mean, like totally, I mean, like education, obviously like academia is morally broke. 1.00
00:18:02.800 Truth broke.
00:18:03.800 Like it's not functioning anymore.
00:18:05.380 Things aren't replicating.
00:18:06.500 It's, it's totally like overtaken by these cancerous growths.
00:18:10.060 You know, even, even just like school endowments now are so big that they're just kind of there to like keep earning money. 0.87
00:18:15.300 It's ridiculous.
00:18:16.520 So I think even secondary education, when you look at the flight of the average secondary education, you know, high school teacher, middle school teacher, you know, they don't earn much money.
00:18:25.520 They don't do is just lay off a good 75% of them, replace them with AI.
00:18:30.800 And free them up for work that they actually care about.
00:18:33.180 Yes.
00:18:33.640 If they're going to complain about how much they're being paid, then we should consolidate resources on those of them that statistically are showing better outcomes.
00:18:42.520 Well, and actually, you know, we, we talked about this during the pandemic there, there were issues of, of many teachers unions.
00:18:48.740 I'm not going to name names or name like which school districts I heard this from, but from, you know, people working in school districts were finding that the teachers, when it was time to go back to school, refused to go back to school.
00:19:01.760 They didn't want to reopen the schools.
00:19:02.980 And this is why you see actually in districts where teachers unions were stronger, schools opened later.
00:19:07.400 So the school closures in the end, like the tail end of the pandemic did not correlate with actual pandemic outbreak levels.
00:19:15.140 They correlated with the strength of teachers unions.
00:19:17.320 Why?
00:19:17.920 Well, because many of these teachers, oh, and, oh, sorry.
00:19:22.140 The other thing, not just, not just going back to school, did they resist?
00:19:24.700 They also resisted doing more than like three or four hours of synchronous learning per day.
00:19:29.080 So like literally they would not be on camera live with their students or talking live with their students for more than four hours of the day.
00:19:36.840 Why?
00:19:37.560 Because they'd taken on side gigs.
00:19:39.420 They were doing learning pods.
00:19:41.440 They were doing tutoring.
00:19:42.440 Frankly, these people had found lucrative, gainful employment doing work that they found to be more impactful.
00:19:48.360 And I don't blame them.
00:19:49.800 Who wants to teach to a standardized test? 0.82
00:19:51.380 Who wants to go to a classroom? 0.88
00:19:52.860 I think to take that level of a play as a teacher's union to be like, we will not do more than three hours of the thing.
00:19:59.280 That's like that.
00:20:00.500 You only do that sort of thing with your boss when you genuinely don't care about losing your job.
00:20:05.200 Like, well, no, they know they can't lose their jobs, though, in many cases.
00:20:08.040 I mean, it depends on the district.
00:20:09.880 But like, I think it's more of an issue of impunity, of strength of teachers unions and just sort of knowing that like.
00:20:17.280 Well, I mean, public sector unions shouldn't be legal.
00:20:19.460 But it's I mean, yeah, but anyway, like the defund education thing, we totally agree with.
00:20:24.260 And again, when you also look at educational attainment and you're right, actually, you know, this starts even at primary school. 0.88
00:20:29.060 Men are men are screwed over in primary school.
00:20:31.240 Men are really underserved and not well treated by the legacy education system, the current education system. 0.91
00:20:39.100 And so, yeah, a way to give men an advantage, a better way to stick out is it's to defund education and or deemphasize education as a credentialing process.
00:20:51.000 Because, you know, a big problem is women will look down upon men who do not have their level of education or greater. 0.98
00:20:56.980 And yet it's like it's like saying like, you know, but like, oh, so I expect you to excel at my level or better in a system that has been systematically biased against you since you were in kindergarten. 0.98
00:21:10.340 It's so screwed up. So I totally agree with him there. 0.76
00:21:12.900 She's she's telling the truth about the kindergarten thing.
00:21:14.880 You look at men, how they do in kindergarten. 1.00
00:21:17.560 You look at men, how they do in high school, in middle school, dramatically worse.
00:21:21.620 I mean, look, think about our children in in daycare now.
00:21:26.120 Men now are underperforming.
00:21:28.240 If you look at the young ages, right, where like you're you're you're likely going to see the biggest impact of all this gender policy.
00:21:34.620 They are underperforming more than women underperformed at the very height of, quote unquote, misogyny.
00:21:44.060 Yeah. If you look at the education gaps in things like high school and then you compare that with a very height of the income gap during the women earn less whole thing, they don't even come close. 1.00
00:21:56.900 I should note here that I meant at the height of when people cared about the pay gap, not the actual height of the pay gap.
00:22:04.160 Obviously, at the actual height of the pay gap, you know, in the 1920s or something, obviously it was larger.
00:22:11.200 But I'm talking about like in the 80s when it was like, oh, women earn 10 percent less than men. 0.59
00:22:16.800 Where if you look at men in school systems today, they definitely do more than 10 percent worse than women. 0.98
00:22:23.040 Yeah. Yeah. So like suffice it to say, we agree.
00:22:29.020 Here's a place where I'm pretty conflicted.
00:22:32.300 Oh, no. Hold on. This is so funny.
00:22:33.440 This woman will be like, well, men should work harder if their if their education rates are lower. 1.00
00:22:40.320 You'll see this. You'll see that this is going to be anyway, you're going to say something.
00:22:43.880 His next prescription is he says pro natal monetary incentives should be targeted at married husbands rather than mothers.
00:22:53.040 I agree with this strongly.
00:22:54.420 He argues that like if this were, for example, had to be gender neutral, which he seems to be opposed to, he would want to see pro natalist incentives in the form not of like, you know, support from the state, but rather income tax breaks.
00:23:08.280 Because obviously that would like disproportionately benefit men who pay the highest amount of income tax, which is interesting.
00:23:15.440 Here's where I feel conflicted.
00:23:16.680 I really feel like, you know, if you if you are going to support, you know, parents, it is it is often the case that men are less available.
00:23:25.580 Like not everyone is the incredible dad that you are.
00:23:27.940 And you may not realize that, Malcolm, because you were like the dream dad.
00:23:31.120 And I you blow my mind every single day and our kids adore you.
00:23:34.640 And I just oh, I don't you're not real, Malcolm.
00:23:37.180 You're not like you like I don't know how you exist.
00:23:39.740 You are not human. 0.98
00:23:40.600 I hope I don't wake up from my coma. 0.99
00:23:42.340 I want to stay in this coma.
00:23:43.540 Please do.
00:23:44.320 But you know what?
00:23:44.960 Whatever.
00:23:45.280 Like if you guys can read my mind in my coma, do not wake me up. 0.74
00:23:49.880 But anyway, I'm just like I do feel that there are obviously there are billions of toxic moms that are terrible. 0.89
00:23:56.320 And, you know, obviously the kids would be better with dads.
00:23:58.420 But still, like, I don't know if like we should just be assuming that, you know, men should hold all the cards.
00:24:06.140 You know, they're not necessarily the best people to hold the reins here.
00:24:10.320 So I don't know about this.
00:24:11.920 I do I do I would love actually, though, I think a really great pernatalist policy is support in the form of an income tax break.
00:24:20.060 That is great because it rewards productive members of society.
00:24:24.320 It incentivizes people who are likely to raise very successful kids to have kids.
00:24:30.160 I think it's great.
00:24:30.800 So I kind of agree with that.
00:24:33.400 Continue.
00:24:34.400 And then the final one is roll back the sexual revolution.
00:24:37.440 And, you know, he's referring to no fault divorce.
00:24:39.360 He's referring to sex before marriage or at least like sort of encouraging or not shaming sexual promiscuity.
00:24:46.700 You know, weirdly, we're on the same page with that, but not weirdly like with our daughters. 0.84
00:24:51.040 We're not going to say we're not going to say we would hate you for having premarital sex. 0.99
00:24:55.580 We would shame you for doing that, like, you know, being promiscuous. 0.94
00:24:59.640 We would just say, listen, here are the tradeoffs.
00:25:01.640 You need to be aware of them.
00:25:02.680 You need to be realistic.
00:25:03.460 And I also think that no fault divorce is important.
00:25:06.960 You know, our argument in the Pragmatist Guide to Relationships is if your relationship isn't working and if, you know, one person knows that they would be way better out of it, it doesn't matter if it's both.
00:25:16.940 Like that, the sooner you end it, the better.
00:25:19.660 This idea of sticking people in marriages is pretty toxic.
00:25:24.380 So I don't know about this whole no fault divorce thing either.
00:25:27.200 I think people should be able to leave toxic relationships easily.
00:25:30.360 What do you think?
00:25:31.280 So two statistics here, which are really interesting and I think undermine a lot of arguments.
00:25:36.000 One, this one doesn't undermine as much, but it's something that people should really know.
00:25:39.540 Okay.
00:25:39.860 This whole like black-pilled men's movement, like women can screw you over, divorce, rape, you're entering this situation you can never get out of. 0.99
00:25:48.000 Yeah. 1.00
00:25:48.560 It's bullshit. 1.00
00:25:50.280 Well, no, no, no, men are screwed over in divorce court. 1.00
00:25:53.200 Hold on. 0.95
00:25:54.380 Hold on.
00:25:55.040 It does happen.
00:25:56.580 Yes.
00:25:56.920 But it happens.
00:25:57.900 So here's an example of a statistic.
00:25:59.760 Oh, right.
00:26:00.540 I know what you're about to say.
00:26:02.060 Okay.
00:26:02.300 Yeah.
00:26:02.480 You would think it's fake if you believed what this movement was telling you.
00:26:06.220 Right.
00:26:06.560 But it's not fake.
00:26:07.440 It's a real statistic that of child custody cases, where the man tries to win the custody battle, doesn't just immediately say, I'm not trying, around 70% are won by men.
00:26:22.160 So that's, yeah.
00:26:23.100 And that's, that, that really blew my mind when we first were told that.
00:26:26.940 Yeah.
00:26:27.340 Yeah.
00:26:27.700 Well, no, because a lot of these movements have an interest in lawing to people.
00:26:31.620 They want people to feel better about the situations they have created for themselves.
00:26:37.100 Because just as much as the progressive movement wants to say, none of this is really your fault, we can just give you money, it all goes away.
00:26:43.620 There's an aspect of the red bill movement that's the same way.
00:26:45.880 If you want to argue on the other side of this, there was a pretty good article that made arguments on the other side of this called misrepresentation of gender bias in the 1989 report of the gender bias committee of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court.
00:27:00.320 This piece does make it pretty clear that these numbers do appear to be legitimate.
00:27:05.440 However, there are different ways you can run the data that will lead to you finding stuff like when mothers sought sole custody, the court granted the request at a rate 65% higher than when fathers made the same request.
00:27:19.340 The larger point here is that the numbers are not as holistically and overwhelmingly weighted towards the side of mothers just get whatever they want, as many men's rights activists would have you believe.
00:27:33.260 It is more a men and women are biologically different and have biologically different wants and behavior patterns on average, and that leads to differences in how much they want things like sole custody of kids.
00:27:46.440 You know, I haven't done the video yet.
00:27:47.780 I haven't posted it yet because I'm a little scared to be this antagonistic to our audience, but it's the one on the reason you haven't found a wife is really your own fault.
00:27:56.760 But yeah, but we view that about pretty much everything.
00:28:00.260 Well, I mean, with everything, it's about radical self-responsibility.
00:28:03.040 I agree.
00:28:03.860 And those are the factions of society that will survive.
00:28:06.240 But I am, I mean, the black pill movement, the black pill movement towards marriage and stuff like that justifies its own failures by lying to itself about the real world successors. 0.95
00:28:20.200 They're like 50% of marriages into divorce. 0.99
00:28:21.900 50% of marriages do not into divorce.
00:28:23.800 Not anymore.
00:28:24.840 Not even close.
00:28:25.920 I think it's something like 20, 25%.
00:28:27.600 I'll find the statistic and put it on the screen.
00:28:29.560 Nice.
00:28:29.780 But yeah, no.
00:28:30.860 And even when that 50% number came out, that was because they were counting the same marriages.
00:28:34.800 So my dad went through like four or five marriages.
00:28:37.760 So, okay, if he went through five marriages, right, and he was in a sample size with five other people, people would say 50% of marriage is in a divorce.
00:28:48.680 Right.
00:28:49.020 And then those five other people never got a divorce at all. 1.00
00:28:52.140 And it's like, no, my fucking dad just is a really unpleasant person to be married to. 0.98
00:28:57.300 Note, if you want to take the other side of this argument, what you can do is say, yes, millennial divorce rates are very low, but their marriage rates are also very low. 0.99
00:29:06.980 So it doesn't really matter that their divorce rates are low.
00:29:10.000 I just like to always try to present both sides when I can.
00:29:12.220 And no, this is important to know.
00:29:15.260 Like a lot of people pretend like the law is much more against them than it really is because it allows them to take paths of inaction.
00:29:25.200 So that's one thing. 0.98
00:29:27.220 Second thing is this whole baby boom bullshit that he's doing. 0.99
00:29:29.820 Okay. 0.99
00:29:30.120 Okay.
00:29:30.420 We know from studies, I think it was in Thailand or something, somewhere in Southeast Asia, that if you look at regions where tsunamis hit versus regions where tsunamis didn't hit, but they were, you know, culturally, economically, otherwise similar, you saw baby booms in the regions where the tsunamis hit.
00:29:47.480 Map deaths, like periods of intense struggle.
00:29:50.080 And yet not even where the tsunamis hit, but where people lost, like children, you know, where there was like extra tragedy.
00:29:57.020 So it is tragedy.
00:30:00.640 It is loss of human life.
00:30:01.740 It is this extreme suffering.
00:30:02.900 No, no, no, no.
00:30:03.360 It's not suffering per se.
00:30:06.360 It's having a reason to have kids.
00:30:09.720 It's having a reason to fight.
00:30:10.880 The baby boom was not an intentional reason to have kids.
00:30:13.780 It was men coming back from a war that had experienced intense tragedy.
00:30:18.340 They weren't trying to like repopulate the country's like soldier base or something.
00:30:23.860 That was not the reason behind the baby boom.
00:30:26.520 It was literally, I think that tragedy and suffering and extreme hardship triggers a drive to reproduce in humans.
00:30:34.360 I don't, I don't know if it has to be tragedy and suffering.
00:30:36.820 I think that there are, for example, look at the Amish.
00:30:39.940 Okay.
00:30:40.400 High birth rates.
00:30:41.340 They are not like subject to huge amounts of tragedy.
00:30:44.780 There are other things that can trigger a high birth rate.
00:30:47.220 Yes.
00:30:47.660 The point I'm making is that the baby boom is not a replicable phenomenon. 0.67
00:30:53.200 Not without a world war.
00:30:55.060 No, or without significant cultural intervention, giving people a reason to have kids.
00:31:00.940 No, because then that wouldn't be replicating the baby boom.
00:31:03.940 That would be replicating something else.
00:31:05.880 Okay.
00:31:06.100 Okay.
00:31:06.340 Okay.
00:31:06.600 But what, but you're referring to the baby boom is a reactionary to tragedy event, blah, 0.84
00:31:11.080 blah, blah.
00:31:11.400 But like, we're just talking about increasing, we're talking about reversing demographic transitions
00:31:16.380 resulting from prosperity and education.
00:31:18.600 I understand.
00:31:18.980 I understand.
00:31:19.420 But his whole piece.
00:31:21.460 Was about the baby boom. 0.71
00:31:22.560 All of these statistical trends.
00:31:23.980 Yeah.
00:31:24.780 He is looking at the baby boom and he is using the baby boom as a proof point. 0.99
00:31:29.020 And yet we have other evidence that correlates with this, the tsunami study that shows that
00:31:34.500 you would expect a baby boom, even if nothing else was there.
00:31:38.420 Tragedy leads to fertility.
00:31:42.440 Among other things.
00:31:43.240 Yeah.
00:31:43.640 Among other things.
00:31:45.160 But one of the biggest tragedies in human history was the second world war.
00:31:49.020 Okay.
00:31:49.280 The people who went through this, anyone who's talked to them, I don't know if you talked
00:31:51.600 to your grandparents about what they experienced during it.
00:31:53.520 It was not fun.
00:31:55.740 Okay.
00:31:56.360 I don't know.
00:31:56.820 My grandfather loved it.
00:31:59.580 Tell me about that.
00:32:02.260 He loved both the great depression, like his, and you know, he, he, this is my maternal
00:32:08.580 grandfather who like the Calvinist one, who's the dust bowl came and they were like in Oklahoma
00:32:13.760 and they're like, you know, one bedroom, one outhouse farm with a big family.
00:32:17.840 And they're like, I think I'm going to stay.
00:32:19.760 And they did.
00:32:20.700 And he told me during the dust bowl, like everyone's leaving.
00:32:23.560 I don't know if you guys have read the rest of the rest.
00:32:25.120 You're the one family that's like farming has become so much more rewarding.
00:32:29.500 Now that we're playing on, on a dark souls level difficulty.
00:32:33.880 Yeah.
00:32:34.280 It was very much like a, this is fine scenario, but like they were, they were actually were
00:32:38.080 fine.
00:32:38.400 And they're just like, Oh, let's just eat fire.
00:32:40.020 Now let's eat sand.
00:32:41.360 He, he, he, he, he, like, I have these memories.
00:32:43.620 It was like sitting at this, at their dining room table and him showing me his photo albums
00:32:47.740 and talking about the high school plays he was in and the fish pond that they made and
00:32:51.140 how he would eat fish out of it.
00:32:52.500 And like, they had very, very little, but he was very, very happy.
00:32:56.420 And then the war came and he like went out of his way to like lie about his eyesight and
00:33:01.420 hide like this and that so that he could go fight.
00:33:04.060 And he was so proud about, you know, dropping, you know, he was, he, he flew cargo planes,
00:33:10.240 like dropping troops behind lines at D-Day.
00:33:13.040 Like he just, he thought it was the best thing ever.
00:33:15.780 He was, he, and like when, when he, when he died, he was found holding the, the, the
00:33:25.100 memory books, the photo books from those times.
00:33:27.360 Like that was what he, he saw.
00:33:30.400 No, I think that my, like another side of my family got those because they lived closer
00:33:35.340 to him and, you know, got the stuff, but like, I'd love to get scans of the photos,
00:33:38.380 but yeah, so like the, this was his time.
00:33:42.020 So again, hold on, but this is also great for everyone.
00:33:46.300 Okay.
00:33:46.540 I mentioned in the previous video about demons and like creating demons for our kids.
00:33:50.020 It's like our family's intense desire to go to war.
00:33:52.520 It is our cultural tradition, you know, and then Scott Alexander.
00:33:55.220 No, not just go to war.
00:33:56.480 Just like fricking struggle. 0.76
00:33:58.240 Like, Oh, let me stay.
00:34:00.280 Yeah.
00:34:00.620 The Star Slate Codex piece.
00:34:01.800 It's like the Calvinist tradition is they are generally against war, but rabidly pro
00:34:07.020 every war that's ever happened.
00:34:09.080 And if you look at something like my dad, like it's so funny, the way that he got out
00:34:13.820 of the Vietnam war, he so wanted to go that he signed up like super early under age.
00:34:22.440 And then, so he was in like ROTC and like really tried to get in early and because he
00:34:28.460 tried to get in so early, he was disqualified and apparently was like psych, psychotically
00:34:35.000 like interested in it.
00:34:36.260 He was disqualified over something trivial to them, which was like a, a small knee injury.
00:34:41.820 He got sound his knees made when he walked.
00:34:44.020 I think.
00:34:44.700 Yeah.
00:34:45.260 I don't hear.
00:34:46.300 I've never heard this.
00:34:47.480 Yeah.
00:34:47.580 But he really tried.
00:34:48.240 But then that disqualification stayed on his record.
00:34:51.900 So he wasn't able to be drafted, even though he really, really wanted to go to war early,
00:34:58.480 early, early in the war.
00:34:59.840 So no, I mean, we see this, you know, across the family, this, when a war happens that they're
00:35:05.340 like, get me out there.
00:35:06.920 Let's go.
00:35:08.020 And you've seen this with me when, when various international events have happened.
00:35:11.400 I'm like, should I, should I get on a plane?
00:35:13.260 Should I go out there?
00:35:14.160 Should I get a gun?
00:35:14.780 Do you think they'd let me fight?
00:35:16.360 And you're like, Malcolm, no.
00:35:18.240 No, no, no.
00:35:19.800 You need to stay here. 1.00
00:35:21.040 You've got three fucking kids. 1.00
00:35:23.000 Take care of your kids. 1.00
00:35:24.500 I still think that this was a huge missed opportunity though.
00:35:27.200 I'm sure this is like highly illegal and there's no way this could ever exist, but like a travel
00:35:31.200 business that would outfit and train, but in like the glamping sense.
00:35:35.480 So, you know, like best gear, best, you know, like really nice hotels in their training session.
00:35:39.880 Any, any person who wanted to go fight in an international conflict that was taking place,
00:35:44.240 you know, like you could, you choose your package.
00:35:45.980 It's literally just international conflicts where you're like, the good guys are really
00:35:49.160 clear in this one.
00:35:50.940 Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:52.900 Presumably it would be.
00:35:54.960 Anyway, we don't want to say which ones those are, Simone.
00:35:58.680 That's why we.
00:35:59.540 We will keep our mouths shut on that front.
00:36:01.940 But yeah, I'm sure there's just no way that that could ever happen, but it would make,
00:36:04.920 it would make so much money and people would be so happy and they would die doing what
00:36:08.800 they loved.
00:36:09.240 But anyway, anyway, Simone, I absolutely love you.
00:36:13.960 You are amazing.
00:36:15.700 You create the hardship, which motivates me to have kids.
00:36:20.460 Well, wait, before we, before we end this, like I, I, I see your disagreement with this
00:36:27.200 guy.
00:36:28.420 I think he's pointing to a real phenomenon.
00:36:32.520 Yeah, I do think that, you know, the way the women's rights movement grew did hurt female 1.00
00:36:37.260 fertility.
00:36:38.240 I just don't think it's the solution.
00:36:40.360 I think that.
00:36:41.880 I, so I'm, I'm, I'm actually like, I'm a little bit more bullish on him than you would
00:36:46.040 think, but for different reasons.
00:36:47.200 Like I also just read this essay by Jonathan Haidt where he, he had originally been like,
00:36:52.480 ah, yes, like young progressive women are suffering mentally the most. 0.99
00:36:55.740 And now he's changed his mind and he's like, oh, actually like young men are not all right
00:36:59.440 either.
00:36:59.720 And here's how and why, and specifically what he pointed out is all the ways in which
00:37:04.360 young men are retreating from society. 1.00
00:37:05.980 And again, this is like, men are losing their status.
00:37:08.480 They're checking out.
00:37:09.640 They're not getting educated.
00:37:10.520 They're not getting jobs or they're getting depressed.
00:37:12.500 And it's showing up differently.
00:37:13.800 Like, you know, I think generally women are much more likely to publicly complain about 0.79
00:37:18.200 things and identify as depressed and say all these things.
00:37:21.180 Whereas men don't, they're very quiet and they silently suffer and they just back out 1.00
00:37:25.140 of society.
00:37:25.960 Well, the AILA study shows this.
00:37:27.660 Yeah.
00:37:28.100 Women perceive events in their life as being worse than men perceive equivalent events 1.00
00:37:33.720 in their life.
00:37:34.440 Yeah.
00:37:34.680 So in other words, men are not the squeaky wheel in society.
00:37:37.500 They're not saying, oh, look at me, I'm suffering. 0.63
00:37:39.300 But they are, they're being completely screwed over by society.
00:37:42.440 And I do think that that's a really big issue.
00:37:44.100 And I think that what this guy really stepped on and pointed to that I just not really thought
00:37:50.000 of before was the role that relative male status in society plays in making marriage markets
00:37:55.760 work.
00:37:56.100 But everyone is suffering in society.
00:37:58.880 And the point is, is there any justification of that suffering?
00:38:02.760 Any lean in where you say, oh, yes, there's suffering.
00:38:05.680 I can say your suffering is real deal with it.
00:38:07.760 It is so much less than your ancestors.
00:38:09.800 So much less than your ancestors.
00:38:12.100 But again, I think what we're looking at here is a really interesting economic question of
00:38:16.960 how do you allow for male excellence to return in society to, in a way that enables marriage 0.95
00:38:24.440 markets to recover and return?
00:38:25.760 Because again, women prefer men. 0.99
00:38:27.380 It's not an economic question.
00:38:28.380 You can't do that.
00:38:29.260 You can't unring this bell.
00:38:30.940 What you need to do is you need to make cultural, not economic changes.
00:38:35.380 You need for people to see having kids as an existential issue.
00:38:40.920 Yeah.
00:38:41.060 But again, people aren't going to get married and aren't going to have kids if women don't 1.00
00:38:44.360 feel like they can find a guy who's who's of slightly higher status than them.
00:38:48.260 No, many women will marry. 1.00
00:38:50.160 If culture shames them more for not marrying it and not having kids, then it shames them
00:38:56.180 for marrying somebody lower status than them.
00:38:58.900 I think women are very status sensitive. 1.00
00:39:01.820 They are.
00:39:02.100 If you change the reward mechanisms slightly, ever so slightly, you'd see a massive difference
00:39:11.700 in result.
00:39:13.420 Well, and maybe it's about framing where status comes from.
00:39:16.680 So if we reframe that your status is not what master's or bachelor's degree you have, it's
00:39:23.860 about like, you know, your earning level and your achievement and your initiative, then
00:39:28.120 like, yeah, men are men are going to be able to make a comeback, perhaps.
00:39:31.560 And I don't even think this is the issue.
00:39:32.640 I mean, we have this journalist right now who's talking to us.
00:39:35.060 She's writing a book and she keeps hampering on to this point is how can progressive women 1.00
00:39:39.500 find husbands? 0.98
00:39:42.160 Right.
00:39:42.680 Without compromising their values, i.e.
00:39:44.860 without compromising at all.
00:39:50.400 And the answer is you can't.
00:39:52.220 Because your values are evil.
00:39:55.840 No, sorry.
00:39:56.760 Well, no, because no, both sides, both men and women today have very unreasonable standards.
00:40:00.940 The young men that we meet all want models who somehow are also really smart.
00:40:06.080 And they think they'll find them on these international trips and they won't.
00:40:09.140 They are deluding them.
00:40:10.180 No, no, they are finding models.
00:40:11.820 It's just that these models are not value aligned and they're not going to pull their weight
00:40:14.960 in the relationship.
00:40:15.820 They're going to it's these are going to be toxic relationships in which the men are basically
00:40:19.700 put into unsustainable roles.
00:40:20.960 The women are put into unsustainable roles. 1.00
00:40:22.500 It's a disaster waiting to happen.
00:40:24.480 And but women are the same way. 1.00
00:40:25.620 They everyone expects a perfect partner out of the box.
00:40:28.920 They don't realize that this is a thing you have to build over time with an imperfect
00:40:32.100 person that you make perfect through your joint commitment to shared values and goals and
00:40:36.000 everything.
00:40:36.320 So I agree with you.
00:40:38.660 I still, though, I have from this point onward, I'm not convinced completely by your argument.
00:40:44.760 I do think that there needs to be a way to to give men more space in society, that there
00:40:50.700 is a huge amount of bias.
00:40:52.460 We'll say from like just from a bureaucratic perspective, as this guy pointed out, that
00:40:56.680 sort of like I agree, Simone.
00:40:58.600 And whether or not women should have less rights is something you can think about while
00:41:02.940 you're in your cage tonight, your wife cage, my wife cage, and I'm well, I'm, you know, 0.99
00:41:08.520 yeah, I'm joking, by the way, we don't have a wife cage. 1.00
00:41:14.800 It's, it's a luxury model.
00:41:17.000 Honestly, it's, it's nice.
00:41:19.180 Okay.
00:41:20.020 It's like a little chain that goes around the kitchen and she can walk around.
00:41:24.060 People are going to believe you though.
00:41:25.360 They're like, there's a lot of people who have little like dungeons in their houses with
00:41:28.360 like actual little cages.
00:41:29.460 They're, they're totally going to believe that we, right, that I have a wife cage.
00:41:33.720 Yeah.
00:41:34.180 We don't think about whether or not women should have fewer rights and that they would then
00:41:40.980 be satisfied.
00:41:42.200 Like, but I know, I don't, I don't think women should have fewer rights. 1.00
00:41:44.720 I just feel like men are uniquely disempowered and disenfranchised right now.
00:41:48.960 Right.
00:41:49.240 I feel like there's a market correction.
00:41:51.040 I agree with that, but I don't think it's as much as black pillars said.
00:41:54.740 Agreed.
00:41:55.160 No, totally.
00:41:55.780 That, you know, totally, totally overdone.
00:41:57.900 And so, yeah, anyway, thought this was interesting.
00:42:00.740 You are amazing.
00:42:01.820 You are perfect and you are a good wife.
00:42:03.880 Kiss, love, bye-bye.
00:42:05.560 And yeah, I guess I sort of cheated by finding this hottest.
00:42:11.980 Bye, Malcolm.