Based Camp - Tract 9： A God of the Gaps Is a God of Ignorance

00:00:00.000 the track series

00:00:06.220 hello it's Simone today is going to be one of our controversial track series where we talk about

00:00:25.740 our religious beliefs if you're new to the channel that's why the gear was red this time it is

00:00:31.160 warning you this is going to be extremely controversial interpretations maybe the most

00:00:35.900 controversial of all of the track series we have done anything you want to say that we would add on

00:00:40.780 to the beginning of this now that you've seen the whole thing yeah having having spent the vast

00:00:45.620 majority of my life thinking the concept of an afterlife was both ridiculous and impractical

00:00:50.760 also not very plausible based on all the descriptions of it you've just presented to me something that

00:00:55.420 actually seems compelling but also based in our current understanding of physics and science

00:01:01.120 definitely a paradigm shift for me so i'm glad you decided it was a paradigm shift for me as well and

00:01:05.740 that's why i made it so long to make sure i left no argument untouched yeah yeah and i mean who knows

00:01:11.580 right our whole thing is if we're wrong we want someone to be right and that's why we're glad so

00:01:15.500 many people disagree with us but i think you're really onto something here and i have fewer qualms

00:01:20.720 with your arguments than i do with the typical arguments of most other religious traditions

00:01:25.760 well all other religious traditions that i've been introduced to and i've read about whose texts i've

00:01:30.700 reviewed so well we'll see is this going to be my rubyard takes them on my 10 hour video i mean

00:01:37.800 everyone has a moment because in this one we are going to go over what the i believe the bible says

00:01:45.660 happens to people after they die what the bible says about the human soul and in both of these cases

00:01:51.460 it is not what the mainstream christians would argue which i think comes down from beliefs around like

00:01:59.000 elysium and tartarus and is much closer to greek conceptions of what happens after death than original

00:02:05.540 christians or i think correct christian conceptions or jewish conceptions where the modern christians

00:02:10.960 believe that like you immediately go to heaven when you die which is a supernatural plane which

00:02:16.820 actually creates a bunch of logical problems for other lines in the text and people can be like no

00:02:22.620 that definitely happens there's definitely a heaven or hell like doesn't the bible talk about like

00:02:27.160 gehenna and it's like well gehenna was a place like we know where it was and the way it's described in

00:02:33.020 the bible makes it pretty clear in those passages it is talking about a place or doesn't the bible talk

00:02:36.840 about humans having spirits or souls and i'm like actually if you go to the original words being used there

00:02:40.640 it's usually saying something else like it's talking about breath or being alive like the life

00:02:46.080 left his body not the spirit left his body um or you can be like but what about lazarus what about

00:02:51.660 lazarus there was the time when jesus talked about hell right in that one parable and it goes well

00:02:57.760 unfortunately and we'll get into this in a lot more detail the word used in the lazarus parable

00:03:02.900 was not shoal the jewish hell it was literally hades which creates a universe problem because that

00:03:11.660 that unfortunately if he didn't mean that as a parable to get his story across to somebody with

00:03:16.700 a greek world view it means that he is canonizing we're crossing the cannons we're good it's like now

00:03:22.820 there's suddenly gandalf is talking to darth vader and it's getting a little bit awkward what's happening

00:03:28.020 please allow me to finish this because it's going to seem like a bit of a jump we see thanos who was

00:03:33.460 the villain teased at the end of the first avengers movie if he holds the reality gem that means he can

00:03:40.940 jump from different realities this will be our link from to the marvel universe from the star wars

00:03:46.720 universe so this is an audience or a mosaic hey how you doing looking good nice dress so hades you

00:03:53.600 finally made it how are things in the underworld well they're just fine you know a little dark a little

00:03:59.280 gloomy and there's always hey full of dead people and there's a reason he didn't use the jewish

00:04:03.900 conception of hell to change the same parable okay so the point of the parable is if somebody was dead

00:04:09.920 and they came back to life and said you should follow the rules that are set out by the old teachers

00:04:15.840 even then a person wouldn't believe them the problem is if he framed this story with a

00:04:20.800 traditional jewish understanding of hell the dead person would neither be conscious or in pain so

00:04:26.640 they would have no motivation to go back and warn their family so he needed to use another culture's

00:04:32.900 conception of hell to create this story the plot can't work with the jewish hell i see yeah so it

00:04:40.080 seems pretty clear that that wasn't what was intended by that but we'll go into that in a lot more detail

00:04:43.960 when you consider other parts that explicitly say that this stuff didn't exist which are more

00:04:48.900 commonly ignored do you see swiper

00:04:52.360 now i went over a bit of this with you going into all this simone what was your thoughts on this as i

00:05:02.020 went into it with you well honestly the problem is you explain all this to me and everything just

00:05:07.940 makes sense and i'm like well yeah of course because i didn't come into this with anything

00:05:13.040 more than a pop culture understanding of christianity which never made sense and also an

00:05:18.880 atheist's understanding of christianity which i think is divorced from what most christians attending

00:05:23.160 church are sort of led to believe that like oh christians believe that you go to heaven after

00:05:28.320 you die kind of like whatever is depicted in the simpsons you know and then it's like but also

00:05:32.340 don't christians believe that we're all brought back to life in a future kingdom like why are we all

00:05:36.040 not back to life if heaven's already operational yeah and there's you know and then i i hear about

00:05:40.880 hell and and you know there's all these cartoon devils and people talking about hell and threatening

00:05:44.980 hell and i i read the divine comedy and then i read the bible and i'm like where's hell i'm looking

00:05:50.480 for hell where's hell and it's not showing up and i'm getting really confused so when you come come

00:05:55.760 at me and you explain things this way i'm like oh of course right that now it makes sense of course

00:06:03.940 more than any of the tracks we've done so far writing this one has for me really deepened my

00:06:11.300 faith in this worldview because it harmonizes so well with a scientific understanding of reality

00:06:17.200 and it has given me a different perception on how religion can relate to science in a way that has

00:06:25.180 made me rethink a lot of fundamental things i thought i knew about christianity

00:06:29.600 which it turns out were middle-aged myths that were staple gunned into christianity

00:06:35.660 yeah yeah it to me it almost feels irresponsible that these myths have been perpetuated for as long

00:06:44.760 as they have been how have people let this fly when it's almost like continuing to practice

00:06:51.740 bloodletting and the application of leeches well past the development of the scientific method and

00:06:58.260 our understanding that there's no evidence-based support for it it's so weird because you can go

00:07:02.640 back to the bible and i mean at least the clergy in in the height of the catholic church could

00:07:07.860 reference doctrine and well yeah well guys actually hell heaven it's well and if you look at biblical

00:07:15.560 scholars they'll be like yeah it does seem true that like ancient jews didn't believe in a heaven or

00:07:20.200 hell as we understand it they believed that there was a what they would have called heaven it's the

00:07:24.060 world to come which is when everyone's raised from the dead which is a completely different concept

00:07:27.960 and and that heaven was i guess in hell were revealed with jesus i guess you could say but

00:07:33.820 why would they be revealed with jesus and why did they just happen to not be recorded that they were

00:07:38.400 revealed by jesus and why did they just happen to be remarkably close to the understanding that the

00:07:43.140 afterlife that the dominant culture that this was spreading brilliant roman culture would have had

00:07:47.660 i.e tartarus and elysium so we'll get to all that but it makes a lot more sense when you drop the

00:07:53.560 tartarus and elysium heaven and heaven actually and and what the bible describes doesn't just

00:07:59.440 correlate with science it's almost the most logical way you could view reality one thing we've heard

00:08:06.660 from some religious leaders is that they agree with a lot of what you're saying and they're like yeah

00:08:12.000 that's that's what most people who actually deeply study religion have concluded as well it's just

00:08:17.960 that we don't talk with the public about that because they can't handle it and do you think

00:08:25.360 that that's what's going on here do you think that that's why these views are not pervasive and

00:08:30.440 mainstream despite the fact that if you really do a close reading of texts that this is what you're

00:08:37.780 probably going to conclude yeah it is really interesting is it yeah like super like jewish history nerds

00:08:44.500 christian history nerds who are like really into their faith they typically don't bristle that much

00:08:49.260 at what we say they're like oh yeah a lot of this stuff makes yeah and mormons too yeah like

00:08:52.560 several different religions that's that's a crazy thing and it's the casual sort of well because

00:08:57.300 there's sort of two religions that are superimposed and we'll get into this which one i call sunday

00:09:02.040 school christianity and then there's real christianity which is what's in the bible and sunday

00:09:06.500 school christianity i think people can be sunday school christians and have an incredible amount of

00:09:11.560 conviction that they know what they're talking about when they are reading things that in some

00:09:16.320 cases look like they may have been deliberately misinterpreted when you go back to the original

00:09:19.620 words we'll get into a few cases of that and so they just haven't gone through like every word in

00:09:24.540 important passages that edify like huge parts of their world perspective so in other words it's kind

00:09:31.200 of like pop science versus academic research science yes and then there's the urban monoculture person

00:09:37.320 who's like trusts the science and you're like well you actually go to the scientist you're like

00:09:41.420 and all those scientists are wrong they're not real it's like well i know a lot of scientists and most

00:09:46.520 of them not real so anyway let's dig into this let's this tract is called a god of the gas

00:09:54.620 is a god of ignorance supernatural is a word that some individuals use to denote things

00:10:01.620 that can't be reliably measured tested or have predictable effects upon reality they will claim

00:10:07.780 that this makes these things above the quote-unquote real things but i think this framing is easily seen

00:10:13.680 through as cope many used to believe heaven was a place in the stars but then science got better and

00:10:21.240 we could see the solar system so something that was a real place became a supernatural one supernatural

00:10:27.160 is all the stuff science and technology pushed off the table of reality this is where the god of the

00:10:34.400 gaps comes from science move in and explain things like how we make decisions how love is created and as

00:10:40.900 it encroaches the purview of the soul retreats further and further when instead what we should be saying

00:10:47.340 is the thing the bible describes as human sentience life our emotions we understand that thing now that thing

00:10:55.540 is the brain and not an incorporeal soul but surely admitting this would cause problems with the bible

00:11:02.320 right there is no way somebody writing between the 5th and 2nd century ce would have known that

00:11:08.260 unless they had divine guidance well let's turn to ecclesiastes quote and this this absolutely shocked

00:11:16.500 me when i read it as for humans god tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals

00:11:24.000 surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals the same fate awaits them both as one dies

00:11:34.640 so does the other all have the same breath now this is a word used for souls in many other parts of the

00:11:40.800 bible humans have no advantage over animals i love how you translate it to breath there but then like

00:11:47.280 later in the same verse it translates it to spirit hmm everything is meaningless all go to the same

00:11:54.260 place all come from dust and to dust all return who knows if the human spirit rises upwards if the spirit

00:12:01.600 of the animal goes down into earth so i saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their

00:12:08.620 work because that is their lot for who can bring them to see what will happen after them so let's break

00:12:14.660 down what's saying here first as for humans god tests them so that they may see that they are like

00:12:21.740 the animals that's very clear okay here it is stating in no uncertain terms that man does not have a soul

00:12:30.100 that is different from the souls of animals but not just that god test us to make sure that we know that

00:12:38.060 and to deny that is a sin because that's to deny god's will okay sure but we go to heaven after death

00:12:45.700 right then quote surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals the same fate awaits them

00:12:53.520 both as one dies so dies the other all have the same spirit breath whatever word you want to use

00:13:00.460 humans have no advantage over the animals in quote yes it's super clear on that point now the next line

00:13:10.000 is really interesting and it is mistranslated in the version i am using everything is meaningless

00:13:15.840 all go to the same place all come from dust and to dust all return in quote now the word that is

00:13:23.380 translated here is a meaningless can be translated as meaningless but it also means transient or

00:13:30.300 evanescent which is much better in context which means that what is really being said here is your

00:13:36.380 existence as a human is a fleeting one and when you die you become dirt okay but what if you disagree

00:13:43.720 what if you think you know more than god well a convention that's established here in the text is to

00:13:49.720 say quote who knows x like because it says this right afterwards for who can bring them to see

00:13:56.240 what will happen after them in quote to point out some type of information that god knows and man does

00:14:03.780 not so whenever it says who knows x it's saying god knows x okay so then if you after reading that

00:14:11.840 first part are like no man definitely goes up to heaven and animals definitely go down below then it

00:14:18.580 says quote who knows if the human spirit rises upwards and if the spirit of the animal goes down

00:14:23.980 to earth end quote basically predicting this kind of heresy and telling the person committing it to

00:14:29.860 knock it off pointing out that they don't know as much as god does so it gives you the answer up front

00:14:34.880 the same thing happens to you that happens to animals you have the same type of soul as animals

00:14:38.940 god specifically is testing to make sure you know this to deny this is a sin and then it says

00:14:44.400 do you think you know more than god human who would know this i god would know this then it goes on

00:14:50.860 into what can only be thought of as the perfect techno puritan mantra further edifying our beliefs

00:14:56.260 quote so i saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work because that is

00:15:02.280 their lot for who can bring them to see what will happen after them in quote as we have pointed out

00:15:08.560 your emotional state and relation to things like work is fundamentally under your control and to

00:15:14.240 indulge in a negative emotional state is a sin approach work was a plum this tract will go into

00:15:20.020 the sunday school of fictation of the idea of a soul that is separate from our brains and bodies and the

00:15:25.600 concept of heaven the bible is extremely clear as we will be going over your soul is not separate from

00:15:32.620 your brain and after you die if you serve god well you are raised again with a different type of body

00:15:39.220 at some point in the future heaven and hell let's say are taught in public schools there is the heaven

00:15:43.720 the world to come they are not christian or jewish conceptions but pagan greek conceptions which are

00:15:50.480 stapled onto christianity by people who wanted to believe the ancient greek scholars were better than

00:15:56.740 divine revelation but also this is kind of obvious when you think about what sunday school christians

00:16:03.340 as we will call them believe so ancient jews and what is written in the bible say that when you die

00:16:10.060 in the future your body is resurrected but somehow different ancient greeks believed that what happened

00:16:16.660 when you died is if you were favored by the gods your soul was taken to elysium and if not it was taken

00:16:22.700 into tartarus well early christians attempted to staple these two beliefs together and ended up

00:16:28.120 creating a rather silly conjunction in this conjunction we have both people going to either

00:16:34.060 heaven or hell but then also everyone comes back to life with different bodies like what so one day god

00:16:40.720 just shuts down heaven and reopens on earth it's like he goes around telling all the souls in heaven and

00:16:46.680 he's like come on guys it's moving day it's just a small amount of self-reflection it's fairly obvious

00:16:52.380 this belief is a childish piecing together of two views about the afterlife one christian slash jewish

00:16:57.320 and one pagan it does not even make sense why god would do this if all the people he plans to

00:17:03.060 resurrect are already in heaven or will soon die and go to heaven is their new revised state in any way

00:17:11.760 significantly better than being in heaven if it is then heaven is not heaven and if it isn't then what's

00:17:17.820 the point of it so if it is true that this is like a significantly better existence or fuller existence

00:17:23.500 in heaven then what heaven is that it's just the waiting room until the real afterlife can be built

00:17:28.680 this seems strictly worse than just dying and then waking up in the sparkling of an eye or in a moment

00:17:35.960 from your perception waking up with no perception of time having passed in the kingdom of heaven or in

00:17:42.540 the kingdom of god right right yeah and what about the experience of being in this state if souls

00:17:49.060 experience time in this intermediate state some people would have to wait thousands of years while

00:17:54.260 others would wait only moments before resurrection this creates an inequality in the experience that's

00:17:58.780 never mentioned in scripture if souls don't experience time in this state which many people say

00:18:03.160 because they go like when you're with god it's like time passes really quickly then it's functionally

00:18:07.360 identical to being immediately resurrected from the perspective of the deceased so why did he make

00:18:12.460 the secondary heaven this is what happens when you die this is what happens when you die that is what

00:18:18.340 happens when he dies and that is what happens when they die it's all very personal why would god

00:18:23.740 create an elaborate intermediate state only to later resurrect everyone in bodies what theological purpose

00:18:29.580 does this serve why isn't this crucial cosmological feature explicitly described in scripture

00:18:36.640 and it's all silly anyway because prophecies in the bible are almost exclusively if not exclusively

00:18:44.080 temporal in nature describing things that happen in the future not that are currently happening in

00:18:50.600 other planes of reality or far away places that would make this totally inconsistent with the way the

00:18:56.920 rest of the bible works and now if i was to explain these problems differently the traditional

00:19:01.900 supernatural interpretation has to reconcile two seemingly contradictory biblical

00:19:06.300 concept the idea that believers are quote immediately present with the lord in quote upon death to

00:19:12.700 corinthians 5 8 and the conception of a bodily resurrection at the end of time 1 corinthians 15

00:19:17.940 creates problems because if souls are already with god in heaven why is bodily resurrection necessary

00:19:24.300 why would souls need to quote unquote come back to yeah that always struck me as so weird like creepy zombie

00:19:31.300 ish you know like those are gone like let's let it go yeah what happens to the experience of time for souls in

00:19:43.120 this intermediate state the technological interpretation resolves these tensions by recognizing that from

00:19:49.240 different reference frames both can simultaneously be true without contradiction from a dying person's

00:19:54.600 perspective death occurs the next conscious experience they have is resurrection in a new form this is not

00:20:00.800 perceived as a gap or a waiting period this matches paul's description of being quote changed in the

00:20:06.580 twinkling of an eye end quote from god's perspective existing outside neural temporal constraints the

00:20:11.380 person's consciousness slash information can be preserved at the moment of death this information can be used

00:20:17.160 to reconstruct them at a new form at any point no intermediate quote-unquote holding area or waiting room

00:20:23.220 is needed the consciousness is effectively quote-unquote with god immediately while being resurrected quote at the

00:20:29.700 last day end quote the interpretation eliminates the need for complex theological explanations of

00:20:34.440 intermediate state aligns with biblical descriptions of death as quote-unquote sleep matches the jewish

00:20:39.560 understanding of resurrection without requiring great concepts of immaterial souls better explains why the

00:20:45.060 bible never describes the details of this intermediate state which is a huge effing problem if it exists

00:20:51.780 resolves the apparent contradiction between the immediate presence with god and the future bodily

00:20:57.440 resurrection it is similar to how someone under general anesthesia has no perception of time

00:21:01.840 passing from their perspective the operation is instantaneous even though hours may pass in the external

00:21:07.340 world this technological reading allows both an immediate presence with god in a future resurrection

00:21:12.580 to be true without requiring supernatural explanations or immediate states all right somehow thoughts

00:21:18.880 now it finally makes sense so many things the contradictions are gone you know assuming we're not getting completely

00:21:30.120 terrible translations well and no later in this piece the reason why this episode is going to be long is we're going to go over

00:21:36.540 every single line in the bible that could be used to argue that there isn't an immaterial that there is an immaterial soul or that you go to heaven or hell after death

00:21:46.740 crossing those t's and dotting those i's all right oh no every single one like when jesus is like oh you know

00:21:52.740 you'll be in paradise with me today my friend except paradise didn't have that meaning back then

00:21:56.620 paradise had a different meaning back then but we'll get to all of this i'm going to be very very thorough in

00:22:01.600 arguing the other thing about this is it makes not it doesn't just solve the biblical contradictions

00:22:07.360 it makes the bible the most logical prediction of what's going to happen in the future

00:22:12.680 in a really weird way that i hadn't realized till i was putting this together

00:22:16.180 with our current understanding of the world this is why i find claims from sunday school christians

00:22:23.660 that i am not a quote-unquote real christian because i believe what the bible says and they believe what people in authority told them the bible says

00:22:31.320 so laughable god warned us he would test us so that we may know that we are not different from animals

00:22:38.100 and they failed that test and worse they are bragging about it oh sorry for those who are new here

00:22:44.740 hi we are techno puritans and we believe the god revealed in the bible is the entity that mankind

00:22:51.580 eventually becomes millions of years in the future and that the bible is actually pretty clear about this

00:22:58.040 now before we get too deep into scripture to the skeptics who want to say well that's all still pretty far-fetched

00:23:04.920 why and how would a future all-powerful entity descended from us raise people from the dead

00:23:10.900 i would counter that if you actually think through it such an entity would almost inevitably raise people

00:23:17.700 from the dead so think about it millions of years from now our descendants have transcended to become

00:23:22.760 something both benevolent and nearly all-powerful and with the ability to project itself backwards in time

00:23:29.420 it would feel for all the people who suffered died and sacrifice themselves for humanity

00:23:34.800 for it but also know that if it interfered too much with the timeline by removing suffering

00:23:42.160 it would negate itself and its ability to remove their suffering so what's really cool here and we'll go

00:23:47.760 into this more is this also solves the problem of suffering which is to say why does god allow for

00:23:53.280 suffering if god's an all-powerful entity so what's the next best thing it could do

00:23:58.840 well it would be a near trivial effort for it to grab the consciousnesses of those it favored when

00:24:05.900 they died given it can project itself at any point in time in history and place them within a virtual

00:24:13.300 environment that represents the perfect reward for them and i just want to hammer this home because

00:24:18.180 when when malcolm at first was like yeah the the thing is that god which we see is the future of

00:24:25.880 humanity in millions of years it will just essentially digitize us and give us a digital

00:24:31.820 existence in afterlife i was like well yeah but what about utzi you know the guy who we found in ice who

00:24:37.680 died so many so many so many thousands of years well not i don't know how many years ago a lot of years

00:24:43.000 ago a long time ago and then duh they could just go back at any time and quickly sample and sequence

00:24:49.780 everyone and get everything they need to absolutely take them at the moment at which they passed or an

00:24:56.080 amalgam of their consciousness throughout their lifetime and give them the ideal afterlife in a

00:25:03.500 digital realm it's i mean wow i think that the entity relates to time differently than we do relates to

00:25:09.940 space differently than we do probably relates to information differently than we do yeah and it has the

00:25:13.960 ability to see and interact with us uh but it's it's it's um ability to do that in radical ways is

00:25:21.560 limited in that it would deny its own existence and then remove any of the good that it was creating

00:25:26.960 um but this entity did reveal the bible to us it did well we'll get into this in just a second here

00:25:33.500 you only have to assume three things for this to be a likely scenario the first is that time is in

00:25:40.120 some way malleable which we basically already know i mean time is malleable by gravity time can be

00:25:45.200 projected backwards into through quantum events the question is how macro can those be and how

00:25:49.760 precise can those be i would assume a super advanced entity pretty macro and pretty precise

00:25:54.420 the second question is does humanity keep surviving keep improving into the future and if we don't then

00:26:03.000 what's really the point of anything we're doing now but if we assume that we're in a timeline that

00:26:06.180 matters where humanity does keep improving well then humanity is eventually going to be

00:26:10.100 become ultra ultra ultra advanced and so an ultra advanced thing that can interact with time in

00:26:15.280 that way then the only final question is this ultra advanced iteration of humanity in any way

00:26:20.380 compassionate and i guess i would say that well we're in a bad timeline if it turns out it's not

00:26:25.260 so again our actions don't really matter because they're going to culminate in some evil demonic

00:26:30.100 super entity but in scenarios where humanity does continue on a good path and does continue to

00:26:36.140 improve this happens in all of those scenarios of all humans being resurrected within virtual

00:26:41.520 environments but it's wild that the bible could have predicted that in fact why would it not do this

00:26:47.620 given both how easy and low effort it would be for such an entity moreover does this not perfectly

00:26:54.780 align with what god revealed he would do raising us in immoral bodies that are somehow similar to

00:27:02.040 but fundamentally different from the ones we have today how else would you describe a virtual body

00:27:07.260 to someone thousands of years ago yeah i mean of course you'd be like yeah you go to it we'll call

00:27:13.680 it heaven it's like a garden it's really nice yeah it's really nice that's what paradise meant was a

00:27:19.900 walled garden by the way and what's really interesting about this interpretation is it explains wording that

00:27:27.060 we're going to go into that was used when they talk about heaven in these bodies because they're

00:27:31.320 actually very clear that in in the words that are used it's not clear when you translate it to english

00:27:36.060 that these bodies are not spiritual supernatural bodies they are not bodies made up of like just our

00:27:42.100 soul they are a different type of physical body that is somehow closer to air but not exactly air and

00:27:50.680 that's exactly the way i would describe a virtual body to somebody during this time period

00:27:56.340 but it got me i was like it's inevitable that of an all-powered entity comes to exist in the future

00:28:02.100 that relates to time differently than us that it would create these it would say well i can't get

00:28:08.740 rid of suffering but i can do the next best thing which is to give good entities that suffered for the

00:28:14.140 future whatever world they would want as a virtual environment

00:28:18.960 okay also consider and consider how that works with the problem of like suffering it can say well

00:28:26.920 you know they might have suffered a lot in life but i can give them like infinitely more like a million

00:28:30.720 times more like pleasant memories in the recreation in the the heaven or in the god's kingdom but we'll

00:28:36.920 get to this because it's really weird how much the language of the bible when you go to the original

00:28:41.860 words that were translated describe things like a simulation better than they describe the way that the

00:28:47.320 medieval people translated them when they were trying to translate them into english and stuff like

00:28:51.860 that which is really fascinating also consider how much more ethical this is than the various sunday

00:29:00.400 school christian and corrupted modern jewish interpretations so what we die and then all of

00:29:05.860 our souls have to hang out in a cosmic waiting room for thousands of years and the bible never sought to

00:29:09.940 explain how this thing worked or what it was like despite it being a super important part of reality's

00:29:14.780 metaphysical metaphysical cosmology or the bible literally explained the whole thing and people are

00:29:21.260 willfully ignoring it you die and then millions of years in the future you are brought back in a

00:29:26.200 simulation but from your perspective no time would have passed no waiting room no just snap dead back

00:29:31.940 okay consider lines like quote behold i tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be

00:29:39.220 changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet for the trumpet will sound

00:29:44.160 and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed in quote or quote for we know that

00:29:51.280 when this earthly tent we live in is taken down that is when we die and leave this earthly body we will

00:29:58.380 have a house in heaven an eternal body made for us by god himself and not by human hands in quote now

00:30:06.260 that's a really interesting term there did you note that it said that the eternal body is made by god

00:30:14.220 not by human hands yeah why why would it assume that alternately the body might have been made by

00:30:19.620 human hands humans don't make human bodies do they yeah they do no they don't make it with their hands

00:30:26.340 they make it with their wombs yeah they don't make it with their hands that's because it's describing a

00:30:31.880 body that is technological in nature and it is saying that god creates this body not human hands

00:30:38.660 that fashion this body which is a weird thing to note not by human hands why is it saying not by

00:30:45.520 human hands why would anybody assume if it was a spiritual or supernatural body that it was made with

00:30:52.680 human hands right i will note a plausible explanation from this comes if you go to the

00:30:59.160 original text which is it is using a tent as a metaphor and then the translation i was using added

00:31:06.400 the line about a body so it was clear that the tent was a metaphor for the body the point still stands

00:31:10.760 why is it specifying that it wasn't made with human hands when it could have used other words that would

00:31:15.680 have worked better with the metaphor but you could say well because the metaphor was about tense it makes

00:31:21.860 sense to talk about it in terms of human hands okay now does that not sound a lot closer to the

00:31:28.480 logical future i have predicted than the bizarre pagan fan fiction of sunday school christians but it gets

00:31:34.300 worse than that as this insistence i would argue is the core reason for christianity's current fragility

00:31:41.640 and massive amount of deconversion rather than when the bible seems to contradict science and what we know

00:31:46.480 about the world saying well i guess we just don't understand this part of the bible yet which is what

00:31:51.760 i think we should be doing yeah they instead divide the world into the supernatural where nothing can

00:31:58.300 challenge their intuition and the natural where science begins in a world of advanced science if

00:32:05.040 the only things that your religion covers are the supernatural you have already lost you're just

00:32:11.160 setting a playing field where it's like encroaching on your territory more and more and more every day

00:32:15.040 i would note here that this really changes how we think about god in that we believe in a real god

00:32:22.980 not a supernatural god now a lot of people who believe in a supernatural god would say no quote

00:32:28.940 supernatural means extra natural more than real end quote to which i would ask them to explore

00:32:35.740 all of the other things they would use the word supernatural to talk about whether it's vampires

00:32:40.800 werewolves witches magic or poltergeists a big dinosaur a little dinosaur oh just the skeleton

00:32:47.280 which way was it heading wait a second what was chasing you in the front the part of the bench was

00:32:52.220 chasing you what wait a second lieutenant i think you better talk to this guy i'm busy here it's some

00:33:00.340 doc supervisor down at pier 34 what's the problem he says the titanic just arrived

00:33:06.540 you know as well as i do that those things are the purview of children's stories you know as well

00:33:18.520 as i do that those things are for the mind of a child or the entitled superstitious mind of the forest

00:33:26.360 hermit the quote-unquote super prefix to supernatural is the same one we use with superstitious from our

00:33:35.500 perspective those that pray to a supernatural god are praying to a fairy tale and a part of them

00:33:43.200 knows it they know that they don't believe in a real god god is not a spiritual being but a mechanistic

00:33:51.560 one note here the reason i say mechanistic rather than physical is because i somewhat doubt that god

00:33:58.020 relates to physicality and time in the way that we do and i would point out here that if god

00:34:05.200 is real like whatever god you believe in if he's real then the thing that he is using to manipulate

00:34:13.320 our timeline is technology it's not magic things that can manipulate physical space are forms of

00:34:21.580 technology or at least real ones are ones that we don't understand we call magic but presumably god

00:34:29.120 understands it so from his perspective it's technology we originally described our religion as secular

00:34:34.640 calvinism as i think this is the core religious innovation of calvinism many of the attempts to

00:34:41.240 re-fortify religion for our world of science do so by surrendering to science and redoubling on

00:34:48.680 spiritualism and the idea of other worlds beyond this one an alternate reality beyond our own i am not

00:34:56.440 denying that such a world exists but if it does it is for us to explore with science physics particle

00:35:02.380 colliders not look for in old books if that world exists it can be used for faster than life travel

00:35:09.520 free power it's not that science would not have a reason to probe it it craves purity it devours purity

00:35:19.300 it seems to me

00:35:20.700 what the hell is this thing made out of all right fine i might have used a few unorthodox parts

00:35:28.340 just tell me one an orphan did you say an orphan yeah a little orphan boy it's powered by a forsaken

00:35:41.680 child might be kind of i mean i didn't use the whole thing instead of retreating to the supernatural

00:35:48.220 we posit religion's purview is everything we do know our jobs our daily lives our history industry

00:35:55.840 civilization economics physics when you retreat from the real fortifications built out of supernatural

00:36:02.100 spiritualism based on the world of superstition acts as a flimsy moral fortress and can easily be

00:36:09.940 corrupted by the urban monoculture values like utilitarian ethics as an aside here this is why

00:36:15.520 the churches fell first when somebody tells me why don't you just go back to normal christianity

00:36:20.180 i point out to them that seven out of ten of the closest churches to me are institutions which fly

00:36:25.500 the colonizers flag the corrupted pride flag the very sign of urban monocultural conquest from their

00:36:32.540 doors and the same is true if you live near any city the churches fell first they fell before the

00:36:39.780 companies and anyone who is not asking why looking for the weakness that allowed this is running over

00:36:46.720 the hill against the urban monocultures gatling gun emplacement and they will be torn down just like

00:36:52.280 the others you're the idiot in the horror movie who is still nailing wooden planks over the windows

00:36:57.620 after it has been confirmed that the call came from inside the house you're just ensuring your own doom

00:37:03.900 the rot the core rot of the urban monoculture uses is spiritualism instead of indulging in spiritual

00:37:12.620 exploration as you would an orgy what you need is spiritual fortification your spirit and will must be

00:37:20.960 made hard as iron reinforced and tempered so before i go further any thoughts proceed so how does secular

00:37:28.620 religion differentiate from theological religion theological religions are left with two choices as they relate

00:37:34.560 to science they can claim as their domain the things not yet explored by science or they can claim that

00:37:41.480 science is wrong this puts them in a very dangerous world where science powers like the very thing

00:37:48.920 you're using to watch this instead of retreating at the encroachment of science technopuritanism does

00:37:55.580 the opposite the realm of technopuritan truth is scientific truth instead of focusing on the things

00:38:01.080 science does not fully understand yet that is where we point scientists the things science is yet to

00:38:07.720 fully understand are the very things they should be most focused on studying the realm of scientific

00:38:13.220 uncertainty and ignorance is not some bastion we hide behind we are on the other side with the

00:38:18.880 scientists and the battering ram trying to break down those walls and here i should know what i mean real

00:38:23.180 scientists not the urban culture monoculture corrupted academics what we believe is a direct inversion of the

00:38:30.020 older systems it is not the things that science has yet to explain that are for us to offer explanation

00:38:35.580 but those are the domain of science we instead focus on imbuing what we do understand about our

00:38:42.000 reality with meaning and creating a larger framework which navigates and stitches science

00:38:48.500 and tradition into a unified reality to understand what we mean by this you can look at how we relate

00:38:53.480 to the concept of non-material souls that can separate from our body someone might say do you believe in

00:39:00.560 one and i would say that's a question for scientists i don't know whether one exists but i think the

00:39:07.160 evidence and the bible right now would both suggest that one does not exist and therefore i assume one

00:39:13.620 does not exist note this does not mean a soul does not exist a soul in a historic context was just our

00:39:20.780 decisions emotions thought perceptions etc which i see as an emergent property of our physical brain

00:39:25.980 and what i should do with that soul is why i study religion

00:39:30.360 i remember and and this is like suppose you know you go to a tribe and you're explaining wetness to

00:39:39.740 them and you're like well actually the way water interacts with itself we understand that now it's

00:39:44.580 like a bunch of molecules and they have like different polarity and that causes them to like bind

00:39:50.440 and create this fluid that you call water and they go oh so you you don't believe in wetness i'm like

00:39:55.960 no no no i believe in wetness i'm just saying that wetness is this other thing that we know how it

00:40:00.500 works yeah and they're like but that means you don't believe in wetness because wetness is no i do

00:40:08.220 believe in wetness i do believe in a soul but i just believe it's something that we understand okay

00:40:13.840 to an extent and we can come to understand it further i remember in one of our past videos someone was

00:40:19.240 like how can god know you before you were conceived if you don't have a soul that exists before you were

00:40:26.140 conceived again remember we think of god as an entity that exists outside our time and thus is

00:40:31.700 omnipotent and a god that doesn't exist outside of time isn't omnipotent which is really weird that

00:40:36.060 they would argue that he doesn't but anyway knowing all things past present and future we stand on the

00:40:42.260 timeline so everything is either in front of us observable to us at that given moment or behind us

00:40:47.360 god stands above it looking down at it so everything is observable to him in any given moment

00:40:52.960 this perspective is both biblically aligned given not only that we know from the dream of nebuchadnezzar

00:40:59.500 that god's kingdom is a time and not a place but also throughout old jewish scriptures god's kingdom is

00:41:06.120 called oham ha-ba which translates to the world to come or the coming world now i bring us back to

00:41:13.740 this line because you can see how silly the other interpretation looks when contrasted with ours

00:41:18.780 so when you have a line like i knew you before i formed you in your mother's womb and you can either

00:41:24.580 do what we have done and say ah that obviously means that either predestination is real and god can see the

00:41:30.380 future god exists outside time or our god is looking in the future back at us or like an effing crazy

00:41:38.660 person you can make up a waiting room where god is hanging out with all the souls of every potential

00:41:44.320 human just to explain this one line and yet nowhere else mentioned in the bible does god feel the need

00:41:52.060 to elucidate on such an important space and it's even a silly space beyond that it's like that mormon

00:41:58.840 waiting room where like all of the kids waiting to be born or like hanging out yes hi i'm todd richards

00:42:05.320 i know we're in love and um so we were wondering if it's possible if you could put us down in the

00:42:13.040 same town right or the same street at least at the same time if possible how about the same family

00:42:18.960 that'd be great yeah no oh no no no no no why are you positing this entire additional supernatural

00:42:26.240 realm catholics are by far the worst at this for example there will be a line in the bible about

00:42:31.440 praying for the dead and another about post-death purification and instead of saying something like

00:42:36.620 ah it's clearly talking about those people who will be raised in the future they invent an entire

00:42:42.460 metaphysical realm never mentioned in the bible purgatory and then because the moral issues that

00:42:47.960 realm they just invented introduces like babies and those who haven't heard of christianity they invent

00:42:53.020 yet another metaphysical realm also never mentioned in the bible limbo from our perspective catholicism

00:42:59.700 is just a crack ship fan fiction to try to combine christianity and roman paganism

00:43:05.940 yeah the problem is adding in all this stuff almost to us reflects a fundamental lack of respect

00:43:21.900 for the actual religion and source material because you don't need to add these things it

00:43:28.840 it's elegant and beautiful by itself adding them suggests a fundamental misunderstanding

00:43:35.620 of the religion itself i i think yeah well i think more than that it suggests a fundamental

00:43:42.340 disrespect for what's actually written in the bible and an elevation of the greek thinkers as i know

00:43:48.460 when i often get in debates with catholic priests i'll often go to like aristotle and other greek

00:43:51.700 thinkers because to them and i respect this actually i do respect this about catholicism i think we need to

00:43:56.760 understand that the greek thinkers had a lot of interesting ideas which helped develop and create

00:44:01.960 christianity and advance it beyond the judaism of the past however i think the domain of ideas that

00:44:08.000 they got super wrong was the supernatural ideas their gods their panseons hades elysium all of that

00:44:14.920 that that that was the wrong part okay and i think that they show a fundamental that they respect

00:44:20.540 those thinkers for i guess you could almost call it their they sort of see the jewish thinkers as like

00:44:27.020 plebeian in comparison and those thinkers is more i guess you could say sort of like aristocratic or

00:44:31.860 higher class and therefore okay to sort of poo poo what the jews thought where this tradition was evolving

00:44:38.000 out of for the more sophisticated ancient greek thinkers but i think god chose god could have chosen

00:44:45.740 the ancient greeks as his chosen people and he did why and this is one of the biggest questions and we

00:44:51.100 get to this in another track why did god choose the jews were like the jews different genetically

00:44:54.480 no we're like the jews like better than other people no were they uniquely powerful or situated or

00:45:00.480 educated no they were definitely technologically and artistically behind the greeks so why did he

00:45:05.700 choose them as his chosen people it must be because of what they believed it meaning that they had

00:45:10.320 beliefs that were closer to true than the ancient greeks had but we go into that more in other

00:45:15.560 things okay so now we need to go through all the parts in the bible that could be used to argue

00:45:21.920 that the bible claims that the soul is separate from the human body or that heaven exists as a place

00:45:27.060 separate from god's future kingdom okay here i would note i have undoubtedly made numerous mistakes

00:45:33.140 whether it is in the word translation or in the interpretation of specific verses

00:45:38.180 uh i am trying my best if i made mistakes and you point them out i'm likely going to do a separate

00:45:43.640 one of these so that i can improve them however when judging the efficacy of the overall argument

00:45:48.220 i would ask you to not look for individual lines or word translations where i am wrong but focus on

00:45:54.160 the plurality of the argument ag i love it when people are like oh here you made a mistake here you

00:45:58.160 made a small mistake i don't love it when people are like here you made a small mistake therefore your

00:46:01.960 entire argument is wrong what you will quickly realize is that most of them are mistranslations that

00:46:07.540 translate a jewish word meaning something else to soul or spirit so let's go through the various

00:46:13.860 words that are mistranslated here and well and on what grounds are you saying that the translation

00:46:18.180 is incorrect because these words are used in other parts of the bible to mean other things like remember

00:46:24.760 i said that this one word was used to mean oh our breath is the same and then later they'll use the

00:46:32.200 same word to mean spirit and it's like wait why why didn't you say our spirit is the same as the

00:46:37.040 animal spirit because that causes a bit of problems with your world belief the jewish word

00:46:40.960 ruhak which means spirit and wind or breath it can also mean air or direction it is often associated

00:46:48.500 with a mood or emotional state then we have nahesh which is associated with appetite desire and life

00:46:55.400 force used in context involving blood and vital essence can mean a living being or a person then you

00:47:01.760 have neshama related to the word for breathing oh i think that was the word that was used there

00:47:07.180 it's it's very um associated with divine inspiration or intellect then you have i literally meaning uh

00:47:15.180 living or life it can also mean animal or beast in some context so if you're using that word to mean

00:47:20.660 soul it definitely means an animal to have a soul then you have yikada which means singular or unique

00:47:27.340 it's related to the word echad meaning one

00:47:31.760 okay so now you might be thinking wait did the jews not have a word for soul

00:47:36.360 ding ding ding tell them what they won this is particularly evident in genesis 2 7 which is

00:47:43.920 often translated as quote god breezed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul

00:47:50.820 end quote but the hebrew literally says quote man became a living nefesh quote or a living person

00:47:58.440 suggesting humans don't have a soul they are a living being the crucial distinction here is that

00:48:06.320 it doesn't say quote and god put a nefesh into man end quote or quote and man received in nefesh

00:48:13.020 instead the text literally says quote and the man became a living nefesh in quote the construction

00:48:20.640 suggests that being a nefesh is what you are not something you have the bible could have had man

00:48:27.480 be a living thing and then god breathing sentience into him but it didn't he breathed life into him

00:48:35.220 this is reinforced by how the same phrase nefesh chahi is used elsewhere in genesis to describe

00:48:43.300 animals for example in genesis 1 20 when describing sea creatures and birds and in genesis 1 24 when

00:48:50.340 describing land animals they are also called nefesh chahi this suggests that in the original hebrew

00:48:57.080 understanding a nefesh isn't a spiritual essence separate from the body it's not unique to humans

00:49:02.680 animals also nefesh chahi it's more about being a complete living creature it's something you are not

00:49:09.580 something you possess the modern translation as quote unquote soul carries greek philosophical

00:49:15.560 implications that weren't present in the original hebrew concept they literally didn't have the concept

00:49:21.320 it's more accurate to understand this passage as saying quote and the man became a living being

00:49:27.920 slash creature in quote similar to how we might say quote i am a person in quote rather than quote i

00:49:35.660 have personhood in quote and what's important to note here we'll get into this more there are many

00:49:40.180 other ways that this could have been worded and it was intentionally not worded that way it was worded to

00:49:45.460 exclude the possibility that the soul and man are two different things which is fascinating to me

00:49:53.700 now it's translated heights are you seem to be loving me getting passionate about this

00:49:58.580 it's fun but can you but like this is wild to me like this is why i believe the bible is divinely

00:50:04.440 inspired because it aligns so much with modern technology even in the face of those who would corrupt

00:50:09.620 it with false interpretations it aligns with exactly what science has shown which shows to me

00:50:16.520 remarkable foresight when other traditions of the time did believe in a soul that was different from

00:50:21.760 the body yeah and jesus as an ancient jew would have believed this as well quotes that people try to

00:50:29.080 use to argue jesus believed in a soul separate from the body or a heaven that was not god's kingdom in

00:50:33.540 the future are universally modern translations that ignore what jesus actually said take something like

00:50:38.540 jesus telling the prisoner on the cross quote truly i tell you today you will be with me in paradise

00:50:43.660 end quote okay so today paradise is often used to talk about heaven or a place of endless pleasure

00:50:49.100 because of that line yeah we see paradise today as a place of endless pleasure because people

00:50:54.420 associated that line with elysium but in both ancient greek and the ancient hebrew meaning of the word

00:51:02.560 paradise it just means a garden now to speak of a garden when you are dying it would be

00:51:08.360 much more saying to assume he meant a cycle of life and death or a place of endless pleasure

00:51:13.960 because i'll tell you what i don't associate with gardens is a place of endless pleasure but what i do

00:51:20.180 associate with them is places of life and death now does it make more sense to assume that jesus

00:51:27.320 meant what he said or invent an entirely different metaphysical plane that the bible doesn't appear to

00:51:34.500 think is important enough to give us any information about but how do i know he definitely wasn't talking

00:51:43.680 about being with him in the christian sunday school understanding of heaven that very day well because

00:51:49.840 jesus didn't rise for three more days from the christian sunday school understanding so their own

00:51:57.100 understanding negates that interpretation of that inferring that he'd be there with him that very day and you

00:52:03.300 could also say well even if he did mean a piece of endless pleasure he could have been from his

00:52:06.780 perception he'll be there with him that very day because again they'll be raised instantaneously

00:52:10.740 from that person's perception yeah as far as you're aware it's very much like in those sci-fi books where

00:52:15.220 you have a backup yeah and then you get killed and then you just get you know reinstalled into a new

00:52:20.900 body or like in a game you respawn there's no there's no gap and i want to be clear here even

00:52:28.020 the bible itself does not usually translate the word paradisios to mean a place of pleasure in

00:52:35.140 nemoheen 2 8 it refers to the king's forest in ecclesiastes 2 5 it's translated as orchards in the

00:52:42.000 song of solomon 4 13 it's described as or translated into a orchard of pomegranates so this itself is a

00:52:50.740 weird way to translate the word paradise from the perspective of the bible now when i put this tract into

00:52:57.020 an ai and asked what the weakest part of the argument was it initially said it was under the

00:53:01.340 impression that the use of the word paradise to mean the way we think of it today was already pretty

00:53:06.520 common around jesus's time so i asked it to find a single contemporary source that used it in that way

00:53:13.060 and this is what it returned the interesting thing is that a thorough examination of contemporary

00:53:18.220 sources actually strengthens your argument rather than weakens it the word paradise paradisios

00:53:23.180 in jesus's time period was primarily used to refer to literal gardens especially walled or enclosed

00:53:28.380 gardens this comes from old persian paradisia meaning walled enclosure it's used this way in

00:53:35.020 xenophon's writings about the persian gardens it appears in the septuagint greek old testament to

00:53:40.400 describe the garden of eden specifically royal or noble gardens joseph uses it to describe the gardens

00:53:45.580 of wealthy judeans appears in documents describing herald's gardens used in descriptions of persian rural

00:53:50.800 parks agricultural and cultivated spaces administrative texts refer to paradise in the context of managed

00:53:56.180 orchard used in property documents to distinguish cultivated from a wild land what's particularly

00:54:02.000 interesting is that i can't find a clear contemporary example of quote-unquote paradise being used to mean

00:54:06.940 a supernatural afterlife realm in the way modern christianity uses it that metaphorical extension

00:54:11.900 to paradise to mean quote-unquote heavenly realm appears to have developed later got you

00:54:18.640 now here's where it gets worse even the dead sea scrolls so for people who don't know the dead sea

00:54:24.480 scrolls were written by a sect of jews shortly before jesus's life uh when paradise was mentioned

00:54:30.440 it is typically in the context of a historic garden of eden future restoration of a eden-like conditions

00:54:36.860 on earth or metaphors involving literal gardens this historical context actually strengthens your

00:54:42.360 argument that jesus's use of the word paradise would have been understood in the terms of gardens and

00:54:47.060 cycles of life and death rather than a supernatural realm if this is shocking to you i think this

00:54:53.040 snippet from a times article does a good job talking through how ancient jews related to the concept of

00:54:58.660 an afterlife and i would remind you before reading this because it does not do a good job of explaining

00:55:03.900 what jesus and ancient jews did believe was that god would raise righteous people from the dead at some

00:55:09.780 point in the future in the kingdom of god and the the place we would call heaven e.g when we say heaven

00:55:17.300 doesn't exist we don't we mean like the supernatural heaven doesn't exist the real heaven does exist

00:55:22.780 i am quoting from the times here so that you can see that what i am saying is not some crazy screed

00:55:30.040 but the mainstream understanding of biblical scholars just one that has been ignored by the sunday school

00:55:36.300 christians who cling to their pagan witchcraft like understanding like a child clinging to a blanket

00:55:43.140 for security when it is the very thing corrupting their hearts and so you might think that i'm being

00:55:48.460 crazy or stretching here so this is a quote from the times in an article on what jesus would have thought

00:55:53.600 of heaven and hell i might do the times urban monoculture i understand corruption the point i'm making with

00:55:59.940 this is these arguments are what like people who study the bible for a living often believe about

00:56:05.820 this stuff if they are not already bought in to a christian or jewish theological interpretation

00:56:12.300 if they're the you know more like secular type of theologian neither jesus nor the hebrew bible

00:56:18.040 he interpreted endorsed the view that departed souls go to a place of everlasting pleasure pain

00:56:23.260 unlike most greeks ancient jews traditionally did not believe the soul could exist at all apart from

00:56:28.940 the body on the contrary for them the soul was more like the quote-unquote breath the first human

00:56:34.160 god created adam began as a lump of clay then god breathed life into him genesis 2 7 adam remained

00:56:41.160 alive until he stopped breathing then it was dust to dust ashes to ashes ancient jews thought so like

00:56:48.560 breath in this context just means life and then when you lose life you decay ancient jews thought that

00:56:54.320 was true of us all when we stop breathing our breath doesn't go anywhere it just stops so to the

00:57:00.300 quote-unquote soul doesn't continue on outside the body subject to post-mortem pleasure or plane

00:57:05.860 it just doesn't exist any longer this is except when it's raised again in the future the hebrew bible

00:57:11.860 itself assumes that the dead are simply dead that their bodies lie and there is no consciousness ever

00:57:18.080 again it is true that some poetic authors for example in plasms use the mysterious term sheol to

00:57:24.240 describe a person's new location but in most instances sheol is simply a synonym for tomb or

00:57:29.840 grave it is not a place where someone actually goes now here i note that there was shortly before jesus

00:57:37.020 this time some interpretations of judaism that did begin to to contradict this article believe that

00:57:42.160 shoal was a place but that was a fairly new idea and not all rabbis would have believed it this time

00:57:47.620 in traditional english versions he occasionally does speak of quote-unquote hell for example in the

00:57:53.600 warnings in the sermon on the mount anyone who calls another a fool or who allows their right eye

00:57:59.180 to hand in sin will be cast into quote-unquote hell masthew 5 22 29 30 but these passages are not

00:58:05.560 referring to quote-unquote hell the word jesus uses here is gehenna the term does not refer to a place

00:58:11.260 of eternal torment but to a notorious valley just outside the walls of jerusalem believed by many jews at

00:58:17.320 the time to be the most unholy god-forsaken place on earth so just like a bad neighborhood

00:58:22.360 well more like a trash dump where animal carcasses were born but yeah it's like a very bad

00:58:26.920 place uh it was used as a yeah an active dump which you would have had warning carcasses the poor people

00:58:33.440 would have been thrown in it etc okay like bodies were thrown yeah okay it was where according to the

00:58:39.900 old testament ancient israelites practiced child sacrifice to foreign gods so it's treated as like

00:58:44.300 corrupted or like we would think of it today as like poisoned or or whatever land the god of israel

00:58:50.120 had condemned it as a forsaken place in the ancient world whether greek roman or jewish the worst

00:58:54.660 punishment a person could experience after death was to be denied a decent burial jesus delivered this

00:58:59.540 view into a repugnant scenario corpses of those exhumed from the kingdom would be unceremoniously

00:59:05.740 tossed into the most desecrated dumping ground on the planet jesus did not say the souls would be

00:59:11.300 tortured there they simply would not exist and we're actually going to quote and go over this quote in

00:59:15.840 more detail because it very explicitly says the worms live forever not the people live forever it

00:59:19.900 says the fire lives forever it does not say the people live forever or are tortured forever it

00:59:24.160 says their bodies are thrown into a place where worms live forever and fire is burning forever

00:59:28.460 basically permanent deletion yes well in which this place had fires going on and worms there all day

00:59:36.360 and night because it was filled with carcasses and it was disgusting and probably burning trash maybe

00:59:41.900 trash well a lot of trash was animal waste back then so rotting animal race maybe rotting

00:59:46.920 yeah of like the ultra poor plague victims and stuff like that jesus's stress on the absolute

00:59:54.320 annihilation of sinners appears throughout his teachings at one point he says there are two gates

00:59:58.720 that people pass through massue 7 13 14 one is narrow and requires a difficult path but leads to

01:00:04.140 life few go that way the other is broad and easy and therefore commonly taken but it leads to

01:00:09.660 destruction it is an important word the wrong passage does not lead to torture so too jesus

01:00:15.520 says the future kingdom is like a fisherman who hauls a large net matthew 13 47 50 after sorting

01:00:21.240 through the fish he keeps the good ones and throws the others out he doesn't torture them they just die

01:00:26.360 or the kingdom is like a person who gathers up the plants that have grown in his field matthew 13 36 43

01:00:32.940 he keeps the good grain but tosses the weed into a fiery furnace those don't burn forever they are

01:00:38.380 consumed by fire and then are no more now i will note it does appear that some unrighteous people

01:00:45.140 may be raised from the future in god's kingdom to endure some sort of punishment but we'll get to

01:00:48.960 the lines that suggest that but they're not the lines that people often think of still other passages

01:00:52.580 may be seen to suggest that jesus believed in hell most notably jesus speaks of all nations coming

01:00:58.360 for the last judgment massue 25 31 46 some are said to be sheep and others are goats the good

01:01:05.380 sheep are those who have helped those in need the hungry the sick the poor the foreigner those are

01:01:10.620 welcome into the kingdom quote prepared for you from the foundation of the world end quote the wicked

01:01:16.420 goats however have refused to help those in need so are sent to quote eternal fire prepared for the

01:01:24.020 devil and his angels end quote at first blush this certainly sounds like the hell of popular imagination

01:01:29.620 yeah summarizes his point he explains the contrasting flakes are quote-unquote eternal life

01:01:35.640 and quote-unquote eternal punishment they are not quote-unquote eternal pleasure and quote-unquote

01:01:40.600 eternal pain oh so either it's it's existing or not existing you're trying to argue the opposite of

01:01:47.200 life is death not torture so the punishment is annihilation but why does it involve quote-unquote

01:01:52.920 eternal fire because the fire never goes out the flames not the torments go on forever and why

01:01:59.060 is a punishment called quote-unquote eternal because it will never end and note i'm still reading from

01:02:02.880 the times article here these people will be annihilated forever that is not pleasant to think

01:02:07.300 about but it will not hurt once it is finished but the torments of hell were not preached by either

01:02:12.700 jesus or his original jewish followers they emerged among later gentile converts who did not hold the

01:02:20.240 jewish notion of the future resurrection of the dead these later christians came out of greek culture

01:02:26.040 and its belief that souls were immortal and would survive deaths from at least the time of socrates

01:02:32.500 many thinkers had subscribed to the idea of the immortality of the soul even though the human body

01:02:38.120 dies and note here jesus in many parts says the soul isn't immortal it can be destroyed he says this

01:02:42.520 is punishment all the time the human soul both will not and cannot die with the human body later

01:02:50.540 christians who came out of the gentile circles adopted this view for themselves and reason that

01:02:56.080 if souls were built to last forever their ultimate fates will do so as well it will be either eternal

01:03:01.720 bliss or eternal torment so you can see i'm not crazy here simone other people are arguing the same thing

01:03:07.040 before i get into all of this but i yeah this is not you presenting some new and untested and

01:03:11.620 unproven and unfounded view this is you coming to the same conclusion that many people have what i think

01:03:18.420 is novel is the road that you have taken to it well no it was people coming to this are like come from a

01:03:26.200 religious background or some other i'll tell you what's actually novel about this it's most of the

01:03:31.480 people who take this interpretation don't believe that the bible is right what's novel about this

01:03:36.440 as i'm saying actually this original interpretation which many people see as like a less sophisticated

01:03:42.260 interpretation the way they may steer at the parts of the bible that this guy described god as plural

01:03:47.420 right and i'll argue that those are actually really important they'll be like oh a long time ago you go

01:03:52.980 to really ancient judaism they still thought of his god as a plural entity but there was like one god

01:03:57.980 that mattered more than the other gods and he was in like a court of gods but we don't believe that

01:04:01.220 anymore even like modern jews they'll be like oh that old jewish stuff was like really

01:04:05.140 unsophisticated it was it was really barbaric it and i believe there were forms of judaism at that

01:04:11.920 time that were barbaric i don't believe that this form i actually think that this form was why

01:04:16.040 judaism was favored over the ancient greeks oh okay why they were the chosen people and i think

01:04:23.080 that it is rare to combine this interpretation with a strictly religious view and a strictly religious

01:04:30.140 belief in heaven and point out that this means heaven and god's kingdom are real and not

01:04:35.300 supernatural okay okay before we go further let's go through all the times in the bible people take

01:04:42.880 to support the pagan conception of heaven and souls all right two corinthians five six through eight

01:04:50.160 therefore being always of good courage and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent

01:04:56.900 from the lord for we walk by faith not by sight we are of good courage i say and prefer rather to be

01:05:04.180 absent from the body and to be home with the lord this is very obviously not talking about death it is

01:05:10.460 clearly talking about the moments of life when you are not focused on the things of the body being

01:05:15.340 quote at home in the body in quote does not mean being alive there is a separate word that means alive

01:05:21.620 it means being focused on things of the flesh philippians 1 21 24 for to me to live in christ and die

01:05:31.620 is gain but if i am to live on in the flesh this will mean fruitful labor for me and i do not know

01:05:39.280 which to choose but i am hard pressed for both directions having the desire to depart and be with

01:05:45.120 christ for that is very much better yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake

01:05:51.100 in quote this can be interpreted in two ways neither of rich require capitulating version of heaven

01:05:58.680 what he is talking about here is entering god's future kingdom that jesus lives in from his perspective

01:06:05.260 he doesn't need to wait before he gets there once he dies remember when he dies he dies there is not

01:06:10.820 some cosmic waiting room the next conscious experience he has or will be aware of after death is

01:06:16.440 resurrection in the kingdom of god however it could also be interpreted as saying that when he departs

01:06:21.960 he will be with christ doing the same sort of thing christ is currently doing and because we believe

01:06:27.840 christ lives eternally in the past and through his sacrifices then this is accurate and again not

01:06:33.820 describing a pagan heaven then you have luke 23 46 and jesus crying out with a loud voice said quote

01:06:40.700 father into your hands i commit my spirit end quote having said this he breathed his last remembered when

01:06:46.560 jews thought of spirit or soul the word is translated to spirit here literally means breath or the thing

01:06:53.600 god breathes into man eg life he is just saying he is giving back his life that god gave him no reason

01:07:00.720 to invent an entire cosmological realm over this this is extra clear as right after saying into your hands i

01:07:07.080 commit my breath the text gen says having said this he breathed his last it could not be clearer that

01:07:13.180 it is talking about breath and soul not soul no simone you see what i mean here where i'm like you actually

01:07:19.540 sort of have to misinterpret these to get these other interpretations yeah it feels more like a stretch

01:07:25.540 to go the other way the way i'd originally heard it interpret it yeah where i think a lot of when you

01:07:31.600 when i first go into this people can be like oh he's gonna stretch things oh he's gonna be

01:07:34.640 but it's like no actually the other interpretation feels like more of a stretch and it's because well

01:07:39.500 we know that jesus wouldn't have believed in this stuff as a jew of this period genesis 1 2 some take

01:07:45.540 this to be positing an incorporeal supernatural god as opposed to a real god quote now the earth was

01:07:50.880 formless and empty darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of god was hovering over

01:07:55.780 the waters the problem is all the word used to mean over here is used in temporal context in other

01:08:02.140 parts of the hebrew bible not just that it can also be used for prophetic events or to denote

01:08:07.200 impending actions next for the word merchafet the word that is translated to hovering it means in a

01:08:14.040 state of motion or animated for example jeremiah 23 9 used it in a different context where he describes

01:08:20.360 trembling or shaking he says quote my heart is broken was in me all my bones shake or end quote using that

01:08:27.320 that word that's translated to hovering now let's go back to the original text now the earth was

01:08:33.580 formless and empty darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of god was hovering over

01:08:41.500 the waters so it seems very clear here to me that the surface of the deep is referring to the same

01:08:47.500 waters that god is quote unquote over if both of these overs are referring to a location it means that

01:08:53.600 god's spirit is the darkness why would a divinely inspired book write something so silly why include

01:09:00.900 the superfluous words why assume the second over does not mean in the future and the word translated

01:09:08.700 as hovering means animated that makes a ton more sense why mention that he's animated or innocent emotion

01:09:16.380 because it is contrasting him with the formless and empty darkness rather than equating him to it

01:09:22.500 it is contrasting his animated state with the darkness and formless inactivity that existed before

01:09:29.640 reality it is contrasting the thing that exists before reality was the thing that is a culmination of

01:09:35.840 reality anyway so that makes sense to you like it's really interesting how something becomes poetic and

01:09:41.840 meaningful that before was just pointless words why does it matter that god's hovering over

01:09:46.880 yeah yeah yeah yeah it's one of those things where if you're reading in the bible you're like okay blah blah blah

01:09:52.120 kind of like when you're reading all the you know so-and-so begets so-and-so and you're like

01:09:56.360 why did it why did it think it was so important to mention this and what i'll note is you will find

01:10:03.180 when you understand parts of the bible the the various words have a very significant meaning but

01:10:09.600 they wouldn't include just superfluous conceptions like that yeah yeah that it's or at least that's my

01:10:16.680 it's there genesis 1 26 through 27 summary this is saying we are fundamentally different from animals

01:10:23.800 quote then god said let us make mankind in our image in our likeness in quote followed by quote

01:10:29.580 so god created mankind in his own image in the image of god he created them male and female he created

01:10:34.300 them in quote i actually find this passage extra reinforcing of our interpretation as how can this

01:10:40.820 be in a book that also tells us that god tests us so we don't think that we are different from animals

01:10:47.000 well if our interpretation of god is correct in that he is what man eventually evolves into millions of

01:10:53.540 years from now then this text basically lays that out while also pointing out that we are fundamentally

01:10:59.680 not different from animals in our current state in genesis 1 26 the hebrew word for quote let us make

01:11:07.560 in quote is nahesh which is in the cohortive form expressing a wish or a command about an action

01:11:15.080 that will happen in genesis 1 27 created is bara which is the perfect tense however hebrew perfect tense

01:11:24.520 doesn't work exactly like english perfect tense it can indicate a completed action in the past a general

01:11:31.220 truce an action that is so certain to happen in the future that it can be spoken of as already done

01:11:37.300 this part of the text can be read as describing an ongoing process of humans being formed in god's

01:11:43.340 image and a prophetic declaration of what will continue to happen now if you think i am being

01:11:48.880 crazy here that this is just some limitation of the language it is not if they wanted to say that this

01:11:55.180 event had already happened in the past and was completed there are three three easy ways they could

01:12:01.360 have done that they could have used the perfect tense with a specific temporal marker like on that day

01:12:07.160 or then that would have locked in the past they could have used the narrative past form called

01:12:13.200 or something which is commonly used in hebrew to disguise sequential past events or they could have used

01:12:20.500 adverbs or phrases that specifically indicate completion like finished or completed an example of this

01:12:27.500 kind of definitive past tense construction appears elsewhere in genesis like in genesis 2 2 where it describes

01:12:34.260 god completing slash finishing his work where the grammar makes it very clear the action is completed

01:12:39.140 the writer of this specifically chose a construction that describes an action that is in progress when

01:12:45.420 just earlier they had shown themselves capable of delineating when an action was complete in other

01:12:51.540 words this line literally reads we are in the process of being crafted in to god's image

01:12:58.720 here i would also note quote let us make mankind in our image quote okay wtf what's up with that where is

01:13:11.580 this hour coming from and why is it being used when talking about what we are being crafted into

01:13:17.480 but elsewhere in this section god talks about himself in the singular well remember in our previous tract

01:13:23.160 i lay out that i think god is likely a hive mind made up of interconnected brains of whatever humans

01:13:29.040 evolve into in the next few million years well now the our construction makes perfect sense when god is

01:13:36.240 talking about his decisions he is acting as a unified mind but when talking about his personhood he is made

01:13:43.240 up of likely billions of interconnected minds whatever he is crafting us into but it gets even worse for the

01:13:51.100 sunday school christians when you consider the word translated into image is teslehem the word

01:13:57.600 teslehem means physical material usage in the vast majority of appearances in hebrew text teslehem

01:14:05.100 refers to physical statues idols or replicas for example in number 33 52 it refers to carved idols

01:14:10.740 destroy all the carved images teslehem samuel 6 5 it is used for physical replicas tumors and mice

01:14:17.380 made of gold ezekiel 23 14 it describes images of cauldrons carved or drawn on walls daniel 2 31 it

01:14:25.540 describes nebuchadnezzar's statue slash image amos 5 26 it refers to the physical idols carried by people

01:14:30.980 contextual analysis when ancient hebrew writers wanted to convey spiritual or abstract qualities

01:14:36.640 they had other terms to do that that they would have used demut for likeness slash similarity raw

01:14:43.240 for the spirit or nefesh for the living being or life force the choice of teslehem specifically

01:14:50.300 suggests a concrete physical sense of image bearing i.e they are specifically saying that this is well

01:14:59.080 we'll get into this in just a second in genesis 1 26 27 teslehem is used with the preposition b which

01:15:05.840 typically indicates concrete physical manifestation the phrase besel menu literally means in slash

01:15:12.900 as our image suggesting a physical form or pattern it suggests humans are being physically

01:15:20.560 patterned after something real and material not something supernatural or even purely spiritual

01:15:28.000 moreover if god represents humanity's future evolved state the word teslehem makes perfect sense

01:15:34.060 we are literally being shaped into that physical form over time the use of the word primarily associated

01:15:40.360 with physical representations suggest the relationship between humans and god was understood in the

01:15:46.380 material rather than supernatural terms so what first what the bible here is explicitly saying is

01:15:53.520 not is that man's consciousness was made in god's image or their spirit was made in god's image as i

01:15:59.600 used to believe and i mean that i actually think of their previous track i used to believe that it was

01:16:02.860 saying like obviously like a big naked guy doesn't exist floating in space but no that is what it's saying

01:16:09.000 it's saying we are literally being made in his physical image in no uncertain terms it could have been

01:16:14.220 written in that way and it intentionally was not it is saying that in no uncertain terms that man's

01:16:18.840 physical form is being made in god's image now if i go with the sunday school interpretation this gets silly

01:16:24.560 obviously god is not a big naked guy floating in the sky this is the only interpretation that makes

01:16:29.900 any logical sense and it also explains the very odd plural usage here when describing his body it makes even

01:16:37.800 more sense when no other explanation does so it fixes so many problems if god is a network consciousness

01:16:44.700 made up of future humans it solves the why he's talking about r why he is not talking in the past

01:16:49.820 tense why he is now it could be read in the past tense but there are other words he could have used

01:16:54.120 to lock it in the past tense and he didn't and he did use those terms in other parts of the section

01:16:58.480 there it it explains why we can be different from animals because we are a thing that is becoming

01:17:04.840 god right and animals are not things that are becoming gods but right now we are also fundamentally

01:17:10.000 the same type of things as animals and it is against god's will to say different from of ourselves

01:17:13.660 uh it fixes so many problems and now i'll note is this our thing that i point out and you really

01:17:20.440 need to contend with the r so many christians they just brush off the r the the the god is talking

01:17:25.540 about himself in the plural that's a big effing deal when god talks about his body why does he

01:17:30.080 use the plural you cannot brush that off and people will say oh he's just using the royal we

01:17:35.680 in the same way that like medieval monarchs talked about themselves in the plural that's certainly what

01:17:42.680 i assume by default i think most people are just going with that yeah the problem is that hebrew does

01:17:48.660 not have one of those ancient hebrew usage when kings speak of themselves in the hebrew bible

01:17:53.280 they use singular first person pronouns even in formal decrees or proclamations hebrew kings

01:17:58.980 always use singular forms for example king david consistently uses i ano anachi not we when speaking

01:18:06.060 historical context the royal we is often associated with much later monarchical traditions

01:18:11.000 it became common in medieval european croids while some near eastern kingdoms use plural forms

01:18:16.640 it wasn't typical in ancient hebrew culture biblical evidence when god speaks elsewhere in genesis he uses

01:18:22.460 the singular forms the plural form appears primarily in creative or transformative context

01:18:27.460 specifically let us make man genesis 126 let us go down genesis 11 7 the tower of babel which we'll get

01:18:34.060 to in a second that actually i believe has a totally different meaning than most people interpreted

01:18:37.040 this meaning because the normal interpretation is like dumb like obviously everyone didn't used to

01:18:42.540 speak the same language and then that language was split up so what is being talked about there

01:18:45.880 yeah and even if that like okay anyway who will that's going to be the next track by the way

01:18:50.940 okay he'll go for us isaiah 6 8 this suggests the plural in genesis 126 likely serves a different

01:18:58.520 purpose than oral plurality if it was meant to be a rural plural we would expect to see it used more

01:19:04.360 consistently throughout god's speech in the hebrew bible not just in the specific context of creation and

01:19:10.140 transformation very weird right simone like it doesn't this seem to make more and this is the

01:19:17.280 thing i think many people think like i'm stretching it to fit my interpretation but i actually think my

01:19:20.860 interpretation fits much better it's just that they're ignoring the parts where their interpretation

01:19:26.080 doesn't fit because they've gotten so used to ignoring those parts of the bible right

01:19:30.580 corinthians 15 39 quote not all flesh is the same people have one kind of flesh animals have

01:19:39.080 another birds another and fish another end quote this is talking about the flesh not spirits and

01:19:44.960 is obviously true actually when it does equate animals to humans quote there are also heavenly

01:19:50.700 bodies and there are earthly bodies but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one kind and the

01:19:56.000 splendor of earthly bodies is another end quote so again it's saying that we are of the earthly body

01:20:00.700 category it's the same category as animals all that uh also here i would bring to your attention

01:20:05.000 this line quote so it will be with the resurrection of the dead the body that is sown is perishable it

01:20:11.300 is raised imperishable it is sown in dishonor it is raised in glory it is sown in weakness it is raised

01:20:16.640 in power it is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body when it says spiritual body it uses

01:20:21.960 interesting language that makes it clear that this body is not supernatural but a literal body

01:20:26.940 in corinthians 15 44 the greek phrase used is soma pneumonatikon soma pneumonatikon i guess for a

01:20:36.100 spiritual body this is contrasted with soma psychicon which is translated as natural body or sometimes

01:20:42.880 physical body this is a fascinating choice because soma definitely means physical body it is not a

01:20:49.240 metaphysical term it refers to a real tangible body pneumonatikon comes from pneuma spiritual breath

01:20:55.580 wind but the icon suffix makes it an adjective meaning characterized by spirit or animated by

01:21:01.600 spirit or animated by like breath so it's a body that is animated by breath now again we think we're

01:21:07.780 talking about virtual something like a virtual reality not like the virtual realities we have today

01:21:12.100 like infinitely more complicated than that to an extent that it would be much more real than those

01:21:16.300 but that's how i would describe that to somebody of this time period and then the contrast with

01:21:22.060 psychicon from psychic meaning soul or life force is important paul is not contrasting physical versus

01:21:28.260 non-physical but rather two different types of bodies one animated by a natural force psyche and

01:21:34.460 the other animated by something non-tangible but real air or or maybe not air but the type of thing

01:21:42.480 that god breathed into man but that is seen as our bodies on earth i can think of no better way for

01:21:48.260 someone 2000 years ago to describe a person being resurrected in a simulation i would also note here

01:21:53.740 that this was not due to a limitation in the vocabulary if he wanted to describe these bodies

01:21:59.360 we were raised in in supernatural terms he could have said asomatosis literally was outbody used in

01:22:05.700 greek philosophy for incorporeal sayings words related to plasma for apparition or phantom terms to

01:22:12.280 edelon for image phantom spirit instead he deliberately chose soma pneumonatokon which

01:22:19.300 apparently is like a weird word to have chosen and stands out in the bible combining the very physical

01:22:25.060 word soma with the spiritual adjective animated by air in the same way like god breathes into man

01:22:30.480 this appears to be an intentional choice to express a new concept not a limitation of vocabulary

01:22:37.020 again christians historically wouldn't have had to they would have read this and many of them didn't

01:22:42.940 be like that's really weird that he's using these words right if you're a medieval christian you don't

01:22:47.940 know what a simulation is if you do know what a simulation is you're like wow he is being extremely

01:22:53.760 precise in the way he is talking about this in a way that couldn't easily be mistaken as something else

01:22:59.620 this is particularly interesting because paul writing in greek to a greek speaking audience

01:23:07.080 in corinth would have been familiar with greek philosophical concepts of pure spirit or

01:23:12.500 incorporeal existence good point yeah his choice to insist on quote unquote soma body while modifying

01:23:18.180 it with pneumonatokon breath like the breath breathes in the man seems to be a deliberate maintaining

01:23:23.800 of a jewish emphasis on bodily resurrection while describing its transformed nature we

01:23:29.460 also have this line in the same section quote if there is a natural body there is also a spiritual

01:23:34.900 body end quote which is saying that these are the same thing they don't exist without each other

01:23:41.780 now we'll get to some lines so they can exist without each other if the natural body is reconstructed

01:23:46.500 in a say a simulation or something like that but it's still natural was in that context as is made

01:23:51.640 clear right there in those previous quotes that it is still considered natural if it's in a simulation

01:23:56.500 it's just a different type of natural body but that supernatural bodies do not exist and we'll talk

01:24:02.000 about people being like oh but there's these lines where you're with god and we'll talk about that in

01:24:05.060 just a second we also have this line sorry the structure here is a logical argument paul is using what's

01:24:13.820 called first class conditional statement in greek specifically when he says if there is a natural body

01:24:18.620 there is also a spiritual body if and it's true that it's not expressing doubt but rather building

01:24:25.620 on an accepted premise to make a point it's like saying if there exists x which we know there does

01:24:31.760 then y must also exist paul is arguing for the existence of a known the natural body to the existence

01:24:38.660 of an unknown the spiritual body and the word he chose to use translated as spiritual means breath

01:24:45.060 or air or the type of thing god breathes into us again he is telling us directly our physical body

01:24:50.860 here is our soul you cannot have one without the other and neither is supernatural note words he could

01:24:59.100 have used but chose not to are hyper kofusis or literally above slash beyond nature theosius divine

01:25:05.960 slash godlike dominisis supernatural slash divine slash extraordinary hyper storius or something

01:25:12.780 supernatural celestial or beyond heaven instead paul chose to use words that emphasize structural and

01:25:19.980 pattern-based transformation this becomes even more significant when we look at his complete argument

01:25:25.400 in 1 corinthians 15 35 49 he uses the analogy of a seed becoming a plant a physical information-based

01:25:32.840 transformation where the pattern contained in the seed becomes the final form the greek word used for

01:25:39.200 quote-unquote body throughout this passage soma which specifically refers to a physical organized

01:25:43.860 structure when paul says we have a quote-unquote spiritual body he is not describing a supernatural

01:25:50.400 entity but a physical organizational structure of animated quote-unquote spirit or breath i have the

01:25:56.900 real words here rather than be psyche which is natural life force this lines up perfectly with the

01:26:04.580 conception of consciousness transfer or simulations paul is describing a transformation of a pattern

01:26:10.740 slash information uh specifically here he uses the word metachasmistizo the change of the underlying

01:26:17.500 structure alasio preservation of physical organization soma different from animating principle

01:26:24.800 pneuma verse psyche this reading makes particular sense of 1 corinthians 15 42 44 so will it be with the

01:26:33.360 resurrection of the dead sown in corruption raised in incorruption sown in dishonor raised in glory

01:26:39.700 now note that glory actually means like heaviness or weightiness we'll get to this in the future

01:26:45.940 but it could be used to mean computational load which is really interesting or density of information

01:26:50.900 sown in weakness that's so cool by the way i love that yeah i know right it used to be like the weight

01:26:57.760 of a thing or like the density of a thing sown a natural body raised a spiritual body or the the soul

01:27:05.040 the breath body right the greek term here used to describe systemic transformation of properties

01:27:11.040 rather than supernatural change it's more like describing a data transfer from a corrupted system

01:27:15.860 to an incorruptible one than a mystical transformation what's particularly striking is that paul never suggests

01:27:22.240 we become non-physical or purely spiritual beings instead he describes a transformation of physical

01:27:28.660 organization and animating principle exactly what we'd expect if describing a revival in a simulated or

01:27:34.960 advanced technological environment to an ancient audience this interpretation also explains why paul

01:27:40.960 insists on a bodily resurrection rather than a spiritual immortality which sunday school christians

01:27:46.240 insists on he's not describing escape from physical existence but transformation into a more advanced

01:27:52.820 form of organized physical structure one that could be better understood with modern concepts of

01:27:58.540 information and simulation than ancient concepts of spirits or souls so i don't know i just really can't

01:28:06.800 get over like how he was being so careful in his wording talking to an audience where this careful

01:28:13.720 wording didn't matter because they would have immediately equated this with greek concepts

01:28:19.800 but he didn't use the words you would have used when you were talking about those greek concepts

01:28:23.320 even though he was talking in ancient greek he was very careful to use rather almost sort of cumbersome

01:28:29.480 wording to avoid those conceptions any thoughts simone i mean still all makes sense it feels very

01:28:38.200 comforting that a lot of these things make so much sense and it's really fun to see

01:28:42.600 that i think the interesting the most interesting about this for me is it helps to give me some

01:28:51.480 context and i don't know a sense of grounding and where we're going with ai and a general feeling i

01:28:57.640 get from a lot of people who are aware of the impact that ai is going to have as it continues to advance

01:29:03.480 is just this disconnect from reality it's almost like they're disassociating from the the blunt trauma of

01:29:09.240 understanding how fundamentally things will change in terms of the way things are done and the way

01:29:13.320 humans live and the way that this intelligence is going to change the nature of our existence

01:29:20.280 and the the grounding you give it in bringing the bible back into this and sort of connecting it to

01:29:29.080 it and being like this has been foretold this is all part of the plan and it's not incompatible with

01:29:36.440 science at all yeah really fascinating to me and as we point out the way we have a separate video

01:29:42.280 that we do just on the way we think of souls and everything like that and i really like your

01:29:45.720 understanding of souls are almost sort of like the they're an emergent property of the patterns

01:29:50.360 was in our neural tissue you can only think of them as a shadow cast by a a very advanced pattern

01:29:56.680 and yeah it's it's so fascinating to me that when i go through this and and to me it makes me believe

01:30:04.440 the bible so much because i could have said hypothetically like it doesn't seem that these

01:30:10.360 things exist when i look at the science and i just need to swallow a pill on that when i'm

01:30:14.520 dealing with the bible and that's like when i went back to trying to build like a secular form of

01:30:19.080 christianity it's like well obviously i'm gonna have to like make a bunch of concessions here and here and

01:30:24.360 here but then i go back and i read the bible and i'm like this is eerie because it's saying all of the

01:30:31.400 the stuff the science says is true like i didn't expect that it it has made it so easy to believe

01:30:40.200 that it's messing with my brain a little bit it it shouldn't be this easy to believe it shouldn't

01:30:46.200 it shouldn't i don't know isn't isn't part of our new thing in life like oh if it feels intuitively

01:30:53.240 and intellectually correct and it is the simplest best word is elegant way of something then probably

01:31:01.160 it's right you know typically the water flows where there is the least impedance it flows in the

01:31:07.240 most elegant way and why would we not let reason flow in the most i guess what i'm saying here is i had

01:31:13.320 made a commitment in my own mind to choose to interpret the bible as a divine source of truth

01:31:21.480 and go through it with my physical understanding of like the world and the way it actually works

01:31:25.960 and find ways to make it work right yeah be like i'm going to make this work for me and my family

01:31:31.080 right okay but i assumed that that the the the like real way reality works wouldn't be what the bible

01:31:41.000 actually said that what the bible was right we were we were raised to believe that faith meant being

01:31:47.000 okay with the cognitive dissonance between your understanding of religion and your understanding

01:31:52.920 of science and physics and reality yeah and what i have found which to me like it doesn't need to be

01:32:00.760 every time i want to tackle a new concept and i open up the bible and i start going through it

01:32:06.040 that it appears that it was already on the side of what sane people in science thought especially

01:32:12.680 when that contrast was what i assumed was going to be in it perhaps what faith really is then is

01:32:19.960 confidence and knowing that the truth in something that you may not yet understand will be revealed

01:32:25.960 through more experimentation and exploration it's not about turning off your critical thinking

01:32:31.560 it's about leaning in with your critical thinking and exploring further inspired by your religious

01:32:38.360 further by your fervor by your values note i am leaving out the ones already explained by the times

01:32:44.760 article like matthew 25 31 through 46 it also kind of addresses the mark one but let's go into it anyways

01:32:53.000 because it's just so silly mark 9 43 48 if your hand causes you to stumble cut it off it is better for you to

01:33:00.360 enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell where the fire never goes out and if your foot

01:33:08.200 causes you to stumble cut it off it is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet

01:33:14.120 and be thrown into hell now i've noticed something weird here that you're noticing even even with this

01:33:18.600 incorrect translation that it keeps saying it's better for you to go into life it doesn't say heaven

01:33:23.720 it says life because again jesus's conception was you're going to be raised again not that you're going to

01:33:28.760 go into heaven why isn't he saying go into heaven here like that comes off as weird even in the

01:33:33.160 mistranslation and if your eye causes you to stumble pluck it out for it is better for you to enter the

01:33:37.800 kingdom of god with one eye than it is to have two eyes and be thrown into hell where the worms that

01:33:43.480 eat them do not die and the fire is not quenched now i note here even in the mistranslated version

01:33:49.800 because it's really hard to change this it is the worms that never die not the people that never die

01:33:55.480 okay it is the fires that don't go out not the people that don't die okay and specifically here

01:34:01.720 when he's talking about the word that he's using for hell what should immediately be suspicious to you

01:34:06.600 is he keeps contrasting it with the word that means life why is he contrasting hell

01:34:12.920 with life when the opposite of life is death well it's going to be obvious when you get to the actual

01:34:20.360 translation this is just like a deliberate mistranslation the word translated as hell

01:34:26.440 here is gehenna which refers to a real physical place the valley of hinnom g hinnom in hebrew which

01:34:32.840 became gehenna in greek this was a valley outside jerusalem that historically had been used for child

01:34:37.720 sacrifices to molek and later became a garbage drum where fires were kept burning constantly to deal with

01:34:43.960 all the dead animals keep in mind jerusalem is a rather large city and you had to deal with lots of

01:34:48.760 rotting carcasses and stuff like that likely also the carcasses of lower class people or people without

01:34:54.120 families so it would have been seen as a natural place to toss bodies he is saying the worms that

01:34:59.400 eat them don't die because they are well fed and the fire does not go out because it literally did not

01:35:05.800 go out it was a constant fire but notably does not say they do not die okay he doesn't say that anywhere

01:35:15.240 there that they do not die when they are so thrown into the burning garbage pit okay what is worse is

01:35:22.120 the imagery jesus uses here the undying worms and unquenchable fire directly references isaiah 66 24

01:35:29.480 which also describes corpses being consumed by worms and fire this was a powerful physical metaphor his

01:35:35.160 listeners would have recognized rather than a reference to an otherworldly place of eternal torment

01:35:39.720 and i also really would draw people to this here you can tell from the worms line when he's talking

01:35:45.400 about these worms that are always there as being undying worms he was clearly capable of calling

01:35:51.560 something undying so why doesn't he say that about the person being thrown into this place why does he

01:35:58.920 keep contrasting whatever the person thrown into this place is with life because he's talking about just

01:36:04.920 death a body being thrown into a pit basically it would be like if you reference compton a well-known

01:36:11.480 shitty place i learned about from a popular song and people later translate it as hell instead of just

01:36:16.920 being like oh yeah he means compton the place everyone knows about from that popular song they

01:36:21.400 literally made up an extra metaphysical plane with its own lore and characters mostly taken from

01:36:27.400 pagan tartarus mythology if hell existed the bible wouldn't have been very explicit about us and told us

01:36:34.920 anything about it rather than saying gehenna the place where animal bodies are born

01:36:41.400 that's amazing wow yeah great great point of comparison there right no why just it just seems

01:36:47.160 like like this is one where i get angry because it's like deliberate misleading of people with the

01:36:52.520 hades thing i can understand translating hades to hell the gehenna thing no that that that doesn't bite

01:36:59.560 and keep in mind this isn't just my opinion the person who wrote in that times piece also had the

01:37:03.240 same perspective on this i just came to it entirely differently than like googled has anyone else had

01:37:07.240 this opinion and google's like this is actually the mainstream opinion among scholars and i was like

01:37:11.080 oh people who actually read the bible also hold this opinion when they you know read it with a credulous

01:37:15.640 eye and i'd also point out how much more sense this particular passage makes when you understand that he's

01:37:20.920 talking about having your body burned and then not reawakening in the kingdom of god to eternal life

01:37:28.120 because he's saying would you rather have your hand which caused you to sin be attached to you when

01:37:34.040 your body is burned or would you rather arrive handless at the kingdom of god would you rather

01:37:40.840 have your eye be intact when your body is burned or arrive with one eye in the kingdom of god it's just a

01:37:48.280 much better contrast because it's not saying oh you're entering hell intact it's saying oh your body is

01:37:53.960 being burned on a pile of corpses intact how how great is that for you okay so luke 16 1931 okay this

01:38:02.520 is a longer one i won't read the whole thing but it's a parable about a dead sinful man in hades

01:38:07.480 yes hades this is the lazarus one it's literally written as hades in ancient greek and this man the

01:38:15.480 sinful man is being punished for not following the prophets in fire and with pain what's interesting here

01:38:21.880 is in traditional haze you were not punished with pain and fire however it appears that some

01:38:28.440 romans of that period began to believe that that's the way hades worked and just in case people are

01:38:33.080 confused he's referring to hades as i've heard it but he calls it yes just like he calls 19 like i don't

01:38:39.560 know why it's just well hold on i'd also note here that they were probably referring to a hades that

01:38:44.280 was closer to tartarus but they were writing in ancient greek and so they use the ancient greek word

01:38:49.320 for tartarus but i imagine that the greek conception of hades by this period had become

01:38:54.200 much more like the roman conception that we refer to as tartarus we delineate them by language and

01:38:59.240 then juxtapose this religion about like a thousand years earlier into the ancient greeks but really

01:39:04.680 just side note here okay the point being is that it had evolved a lot if you're like why didn't this

01:39:10.120 hades look like the hades that i know it's because it had changed a lot in the popular conception

01:39:14.760 since then but very clearly what he is not talking about is the jewish which which he could he could

01:39:21.880 have been talking about right like he clearly understood it and talked about well not hell

01:39:25.560 but like afterlife like you're raised again or you die as he referenced in other sections here so i

01:39:31.320 think my point is pretty clear here that the concept of hell is lifted from greek pagan mythology

01:39:36.360 and does not come from christian or jewish theology as the best argument for it in the whole bible

01:39:41.800 comes with that word and no other attached to it now because hades is not a judeo-christian concept

01:39:49.160 the first question we need to ask is what the hell is going on here did the bible just admit that hades

01:39:55.000 persephone and the boatmen are all real no of course not because this is a parable a story used to teach

01:40:01.400 a lesson to an audience in this cake a greek audience who would have been familiar with the concept

01:40:08.040 of sorry when i say a greek audience i should

01:40:12.520 was this parable taught to a greek audience maybe it was at the very least taught to a romanized

01:40:17.400 jewish audience but here my assumption because he's using a greek afterlife is he was telling

01:40:22.840 this to a greek audience i don't understand why he would have used that otherwise it's very weird to

01:40:27.240 throw into an ancient jewish thing to to throw in hades and then describe hades as it was understood

01:40:34.920 in this period so no of course not because this is the parable a story used to teach a lesson to an

01:40:40.040 audience in this cake a greek audience who would have been familiar with the concept of life after

01:40:43.800 death where you might be tortured the point of this story is that even if the dead came back to life

01:40:49.880 people would not listen to them as prophets and that moses abraham etc are enough told through the

01:40:57.560 lens of an ancient greek metaphysical worldview because that was the point he was getting across

01:41:01.080 with this this guy is being tortured and he goes well at least let me tell my family and he's like

01:41:04.760 he's like well look even if i brought you back to life people still wouldn't believe you

01:41:09.960 right if they don't believe moses and abraham and all that so how do i know this is meant to be

01:41:15.160 literal well there are two big giveaways the first being that it is after a list of parables the second

01:41:21.720 and this is the big one is that hades is not christian if you take this to being literal then jesus is

01:41:28.840 telling us hades is a real place and the theological implications for this are just insane this is one

01:41:34.520 of those crossover dream sequences that accidentally validates an entire other extended universe

01:41:39.320 because in the parable jesus didn't say the place was like hades he said he was in literal hades

01:41:46.440 also the beauty of the story is just completely ruined if you take this interpretation because what

01:41:53.400 he was telling the guy using an ancient greek pagan afterlife in a really intense way is saying that

01:42:00.120 even if someone could come back from the dead people would not believe them which foreshadowing much by

01:42:06.040 the way but he is saying it in a way that an ancient greek audience could understand oh i just realized

01:42:13.400 why he used hades in this parable okay so the point he wanted to wait why just because you were thinking

01:42:20.280 through it again yeah i was thinking through it again okay i was thinking why didn't he use the

01:42:24.760 jewish conception of hell to tell the same parable yeah and there's a reason he didn't use the jewish

01:42:29.800 conception of hell to change the same parable okay so the point of the parable is if somebody was dead

01:42:35.880 and they came back to life and said hey death is really really horrible you should follow the rules

01:42:42.760 that are set out by the old teachers even then a person wouldn't believe them the problem is if he

01:42:48.440 framed this story with a traditional jewish understanding of hell the dead person would

01:42:52.920 neither be conscious or in pain so they would have no motivation to go back and warn their family

01:42:59.000 so he needed to use another culture's conception of hell to create this story the plot can't work

01:43:05.960 with the jewish hell i see the plot doesn't work with the jewish hell so he it's very similar to like

01:43:11.880 when einstein said god doesn't play dice even though einstein was pretty clearly an atheist

01:43:16.120 he needed the concept of god to quickly describe like all the laws of physics and everything like

01:43:20.120 that and jesus really really really needed to tell this parable for very obvious reasons even if

01:43:26.920 somebody came back from the dead people still wouldn't believe him because that is relevant

01:43:31.080 to jesus's life okay that is why he needed to tell the story but he wouldn't have had the motivation if

01:43:37.800 he used the correct afterlife so he used an alternate afterlife i think assuming that people would

01:43:43.880 know that the afterlife wasn't real within this jewish conception and was just for the sake of the

01:43:48.520 parable because he used the word hades instead of any word that edified the truth of the parable

01:43:53.960 or in any way said hey by the way this is true and this is what hell is like yeah because you know

01:44:00.520 that would have like massive theological implications to all of a sudden insert this like people would be

01:44:06.120 yeah it's a big bomb to drop in just one parable by the way hades is by the way hades is real just

01:44:13.560 gotta lots of implications is this is this real now is this real i i want to like like have a

01:44:22.680 record screech there you know but clearly nobody did that nobody was like hey jesus like why did you

01:44:28.520 just say hades was real like that would have been part of the parable if that's what it was meant to

01:44:33.240 explain and jesus then would have said something like if it was a modern christian interpretation

01:44:37.320 would have said well i don't mean literal hades i'm using hades to describe an afterlife that it

01:44:42.440 turns out us jews and christians like we actually have this afterlife somebody's like wait what he's

01:44:47.080 like yeah actually it turned out the ancient greeks were like super close to a correct afterlife

01:44:50.840 and the jews just didn't have it right at all and so when when bad people die they go to this place

01:44:56.520 it's below the earth and it's where you must notice like all the similarities here between the

01:45:01.240 tartarus myth right and yet we're told in ecclesiastes very explicitly that if anyone tells

01:45:08.360 you that an animal soul goes down and a human soul goes up they are lying to you if anyone tells you

01:45:13.800 that these souls are different in nature if anyone tells you that there's life after death other than

01:45:17.560 the resurrection they are lying to you and god tests us to make sure we don't believe this lie

01:45:23.400 so problem okay and people can be like hey you can't say that this is the only time this is what about

01:45:29.800 all these other times you've dismissed as the only time this was mentioned in the bible and i'm like

01:45:33.400 every one of them it's completely different you know it's not like they're all building to the same

01:45:39.000 concept okay they're completely different concepts if if they all mirrored each other outside of the fire

01:45:47.240 reference which appears to be common in talks of death during this period there doesn't appear to be

01:45:53.000 any other unifying concepts here i guess you've got the the the two unifying concepts i'm i'm familiar

01:45:59.480 with are this one from the lazarus one and then there's the one with the uh gamora one the mark one

01:46:05.160 you could say that the two things that both stories have in common is there is fire and it takes place

01:46:12.360 underground and souls are being tormented well no in the mark one souls are not being tormented or punished

01:46:19.400 so it's just that there's fire and it's underground well no it's not underground because gomora is

01:46:23.560 above ground okay so the only similarity across them is fire um okay fire we'll take that yeah but

01:46:30.200 what i'm saying is it's clearly not building some like a unified new metaphysical plane that i think

01:46:36.040 you need a lot of evidence if you're adding to your metaphysical framework of reality and i'm just not

01:46:41.240 getting that here well if fire signifies anything it is the ending of something the immolation of it

01:46:48.760 to ashes that's what death is yeah one samuel 25 29 may the soul of my master rebound in the bundle

01:46:55.880 of life with lord your god and may the souls of your enemies be flung by the slingshot i translated this

01:47:01.960 line with words closer to the ancient hebrew translation here a lot of the modern english translations will use

01:47:08.680 the word spirit instead of life for this you might be like why was this a weird thing why does it make

01:47:12.440 people believe a spirit is separate from the body but that wasn't the word that was used it's the

01:47:16.440 word that's more often translated as life and it makes more sense quote may the life of my master

01:47:22.600 be bound up in the bundle of the links of their existence with the lord god and the many lives of

01:47:29.720 your enemies be flung by the slingshot end quote why posit something supernatural when it's not

01:47:34.760 posited in the most logical reading of the text note here if you go with the original translation

01:47:39.640 it causes problems because the word being translated as soul or spirit here is used to describe the life

01:47:45.960 force that animates animals meaning that animals even insects and worms would have souls which is is

01:47:51.960 more of a problem for me than me saying that we are the same sort of a thing as animals just a more

01:47:56.680 advanced version in a way that makes us different right but when you posit animals as having souls that

01:48:01.880 gets into a big theological problem for me because it's like well did their souls do you have an

01:48:06.520 afterlife are they immutable souls are they immortal souls like why is the bible not touching

01:48:11.000 on any of that if animals have souls now right and if you take the incorrect meaning of this you gift

01:48:15.880 animal souls which no don't don't buy that okay now we're going to do a number of job readings this

01:48:19.880 is going to be relevant to our jewish followers who might have this incorrect interpretation because

01:48:23.160 a lot of hundred jews are actually soul doulas that's a mainstream conception now that they

01:48:27.480 mostly got from the christians just didn't realize it and they jews hate it being pointed out how much

01:48:33.080 their religion has changed over time it's like the big bugaboo that we get so that's the angriest

01:48:37.560 jews thing we get on this is you can't say it's a new religion i'm like well if it's a dualist religion

01:48:41.720 that's really different than what ancient jews believed seems pretty clear to me that ancient jews

01:48:47.560 were materialist monists if you're not sure what that means a materialist monist believes that

01:48:53.320 everything in existence including consciousness and mental phenomena can be explained purely

01:48:57.960 through physical material substances and processes they reject mind-body dualism holding that there

01:49:03.400 is only one fundamental type of substance matter rather than separate mental and physical substances

01:49:08.600 now interestingly very few modern jews are materialist monists i'd say they're either if they're like

01:49:14.920 more casual jews they're going to be dualist because they picked that up from christians if they're

01:49:18.920 more into the bible or they're like more hasidic they're going to be idealist monists idealist

01:49:24.200 monists hold that everything including what appears to be matter is fundamentally composed

01:49:27.800 of consciousness slash spirit slash mind physical reality is viewed as a manifestation of an underlying

01:49:33.000 spiritual substance rather than the other way around and when i say it's really different than

01:49:36.440 what ancient jews believe just use your logic okay if ancient jews believed in this like dualist soul

01:49:43.080 why weren't they writing about it like the fact that i'm able to find all of this in nothing

01:49:48.280 disconfirming it in the bible is either massive supernatural interference or they just didn't

01:49:53.400 believe it which one is better for your argument that the world is supernaturally interfering to make

01:50:00.280 malcolm right or that the ancient jews just didn't believe this and it wasn't a popular concept at this

01:50:05.080 on okay so let's go to job which some people use to try to argue for a dualist perspective

01:50:10.040 job 12 10 in his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind

01:50:15.480 the breath of all mankind how god gave us life is being put at the same level as other creatures

01:50:20.440 like bugs here seems clearly to be talking about life and saying in his hand are these two like

01:50:24.920 equitable things the breath of all mankind and the life of creatures and keep in mind same words

01:50:29.640 are used across them here and this becomes even clearer when you look at the word that's translated to

01:50:35.080 life of creatures here it's the word nefesh this is a word that in genesis 2 7 when describing god

01:50:41.320 creating humans as quote living souls slash beings is used nefesh hi job 32 8 but it is the spirit in a

01:50:51.240 person the breath of the almighty that gives them understanding this could be correctly read as keep

01:50:56.920 in mind i'm just using a different translation it is through the life god gave man that man has

01:51:02.440 understanding like duh that doesn't lead to a dualist perspective at all and when the spirit here is

01:51:08.520 using i think the breath word in this instance yes in this line the use of the word spirit and

01:51:14.280 the use of the word breath are actually the exact same word it is the breath in a person the breath

01:51:21.080 of the almighty that gives them understanding would be a correct interpretation job 19 26 to 27

01:51:28.360 and after my skin has been destroyed yet in my flesh i will see god i myself will see him with my own

01:51:33.640 eyes i and not another again here we see something that hugely supports my interpretation as they have

01:51:40.040 no skin but are in their flesh eg they are in a virtual body there is no other way you can have no

01:51:46.280 skin but be in your flesh within a purely spiritual body or some other kind of super awesome supernatural

01:51:52.840 body um i didn't most people just imagine ghosts or something they just assume that whatever it is they

01:51:59.880 can't explain it yeah which would have been the way to understand it in a medieval period maybe but

01:52:05.000 it was like yeah the issue is that now we have such a better explanation that why would we hold on to

01:52:10.280 the one that involves what i don't get if the bible predicted something that it had no business

01:52:15.640 protecting and this divine foresight or prophecy or revelation could be seen as edifying the truth

01:52:22.120 within the bible why are people clinging to medieval interpretations of these words that are less in

01:52:28.840 alignment it's like the bible had really detailed schematics for like a microchip in it and then

01:52:34.920 in the medieval period they said oh this is actually how you're supposed to build the temple and then i go

01:52:40.040 back and i'm like actually this makes a microchip like isn't that really cool and they go no we all

01:52:44.040 know that this is for how you build a temple that's heresy to say that this is how you make a microchip

01:52:48.200 and i'm like but it does make microchips and we'll get even more specific here in a little bit

01:52:52.920 it's really weird like like weird for me as somebody who did i like i don't even have faith

01:52:57.320 i just believe it because like this is hard for me not to believe when i look at the totality of

01:53:01.720 evidence and the bible saying stuff it shouldn't have had any ability to predict but okay let's let's

01:53:06.520 go further here right it also makes it clear that he has no flesh and thus no eyes but sees god with his

01:53:15.160 eyes and not someone else's it's also reads like a riddle describing a simulation so again

01:53:22.120 just think about this like this is clearly not describing a spiritual or supernatural body

01:53:26.440 or it would have said that it's trying as hard as it can like really going forward to describe

01:53:31.320 a vr simulation here without the words if they were describing something supernatural they could

01:53:35.080 have used supernatural words so i will read this again and ask yourself why did they word it

01:53:39.560 like this in no other way is this not the closest you could have gotten to a super advanced

01:53:43.640 vr simulation if you're explaining it to somebody and after my skin had been destroyed yet in my

01:53:49.560 flesh i will see god i myself will see him with my own eyes i and not another his flesh has been

01:53:57.880 destroyed his eyes have been destroyed and yet he maintains them how okay to continue note i will not

01:54:06.200 go deep on the parts of revelation that could be used to argue against this as i do not consider

01:54:10.360 revelation's canon i go over wine another tract but it's not that radical a position considering

01:54:15.000 apparently martin loser felt the same way at times in his life but if you want to go there you can go

01:54:20.200 to revelations 6 9 11 when he opened the fifth seal i saw under the altar the souls of those who had

01:54:26.680 been slain for the word of god they called out aloud in one voice how long sovereign lord this is often

01:54:33.320 used to argue for the consciousness of souls existing after death however this appears in a highly symbolic

01:54:38.600 vision sequence in revelation which is full of metaphoric the same passage describes literal

01:54:43.720 seals being broken open and horses of different colors it's not meant to be taken as a literal

01:54:48.760 description of metaphysical reality so again like talking about horses of different colors this is

01:54:53.000 a book where they talk about like dragons and serpent seeding people and like it gets it's a it's a

01:54:58.360 vision trip okay that's part of why i i don't think it's divinely inspired and also because it's it was on

01:55:03.400 the edge of canonicity when it was canonized and because the greek in it is really terrible

01:55:07.640 like it wasn't written by an educated person moreover parts of revelations could be used

01:55:12.520 to bolster my interpretation revelations 21 1 2 quote then i saw a new heaven and a new earth for the

01:55:19.320 first heaven and the first earth had passed away i saw the holy city the new jerusalem coming down

01:55:24.760 out of heaven from god this describes a physical transformation rather than a spiritual realm

01:55:30.120 new jerusalem comes down to earth rather than these souls going up implies complete physical

01:55:35.320 remake rather than a spiritual overlay all right anything you want to say before i keep going or

01:55:39.640 just keep spouting these okay keep going for it though i would now i'm like marking is the thing to

01:55:47.000 look at like the historicity of the book of revelations and like who wrote it and what people think was

01:55:53.080 going on i think it was somebody with schizophrenia or some sort of other psychiatric condition

01:56:00.040 yeah is my read or somebody who's doing lots of like psychic psychoactive medic either medication

01:56:05.160 or rituals like spinning or certain positions that like really strict jews do that can cause

01:56:10.600 psychological like a distorted state yeah and and it was really only canonized because it could be

01:56:18.760 used to argue for one particular side of a is this heretical or is this heretical argument that was

01:56:24.840 happening at the time oh interesting yeah so even at the time it was canonized for pretty dubious reasons

01:56:32.120 just to read a passage from revelations which i think shows pretty clearly why i don't consider

01:56:36.200 it divinely inspired it sounds like pagan as hell a great sign appeared in heaven a woman closed with the

01:56:42.440 sun with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars on her head she was pregnant and cried out in

01:56:48.360 pain as she was about to give birth then another sign appeared in heaven an enormous red dragon with

01:56:53.480 seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its eyes its tail swept a third of the stars out of the

01:56:59.000 sky and flung them to the earth the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so

01:57:03.640 that it might devour her child the moment it was born she gave birth to a son a male child who will

01:57:09.240 rule all nations with an iron scepter and her child was snatched up to god and to his throne the

01:57:14.920 woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by god where she might be taken care of

01:57:20.040 for 1260 days please prove to say something to me not here to talk to them you are the hand chosen

01:57:29.320 by the master no yours is the field of blood yours is the sword of michael peter 3 19 20. after being

01:57:38.280 made alive he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits to those who were disobedient long

01:57:43.720 ago this is sometimes used to argue jesus visited souls in some kind of afterlife however the word translated

01:57:49.720 here as spirits is noumenelish which like the other spirit slash breast words we've discussed

01:57:55.560 doesn't necessarily imply a supernatural soul this passage is also notoriously difficult to interpret

01:58:00.600 and appears in the context of baptism symbolism also it could just be talking about people being judged

01:58:06.760 after they are brought back to life and we will see in other parts of the bible when it talks about the

01:58:11.880 people who are brought back in the future there is some indication that they are judged at that future

01:58:16.760 time and again just a alliance with the traditional jewish concept of an afterlife people being the

01:58:23.400 traditional christian people being brought back after death matthew 10 28 do not be afraid of those

01:58:28.760 who kill the body but cannot kill the soul rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both the soul and

01:58:34.680 the body in gehenna so this one seems compelling at first until you realize that the word translated as

01:58:41.160 soul here is psyche which like the hebrew nefesh primarily means life or living being this could

01:58:47.240 be read as contrasting temporarily with death or with complete annihilation remember gehenna is a place

01:58:52.680 where bodies were burned sometimes so what is being said here is that if you don't get your name written

01:58:59.800 in the book of life you will not be resurrected and we'll talk more about this in a second in the heaven

01:59:05.160 in the real christian jewish heaven the kingdom to come and so it's saying here that do not be afraid

01:59:12.040 of someone who can kill your body but someone who could have your name removed from the book of life

01:59:18.680 which would destroy both the body and soul in gehenna i.e the body and soul burning in the the fire

01:59:25.000 pit no we don't know for sure that they ever burned human bodies in this fire pit it was just a cursed and

01:59:30.280 uniquely disgusting place where they burned animal corpses so they're just saying to have your body

01:59:36.120 desecrated basically here and when here it says who can erase the body of and soul in gehenna who

01:59:43.160 can destroy both the body and soul in gehenna it's referring to god not satan as many people would think

01:59:49.080 it's god who removes names from the book of life not satan who removes names from the book of life here

01:59:54.200 it's saying you should fear god's wrath if you act in a way that is antagonistic to his goals and here

02:00:01.640 i note to those who want to read gehenna as hell and want to read satan in as the one who's destroying

02:00:07.960 a person's soul that actually leads to a ton of theological problems because satan's not supposed

02:00:14.520 to destroy souls is he that's not what i understood satan did in hell satan doesn't erase souls in hell

02:00:21.240 but right here it says very clearly of the one who could destroy both the soul and the body in

02:00:25.880 gehenna now that would make sense if they believed in monism and that the soul and the body were one

02:00:31.480 thing and they were burning together and that they could be resurrected in the future if they were in

02:00:35.080 the book of life and they could be removed from the book of life that god could do that because we

02:00:38.680 see that god blocked out names from the book of life more on that later but it doesn't make sense

02:00:42.120 if you take the sunday school interpretation and what this is talking about is hell and satan because satan

02:00:47.400 does not destroy souls in hell in fact this line further edifies my interpretation because it very

02:00:53.720 clearly says that souls can be destroyed they are not immutable or immortal things john 11 23

02:01:01.400 through 27 jesus said to her your brother will rise again marcia said to him i know that he will rise

02:01:07.240 again in the resurrection on the last day jesus said to her i am the resurrection and the life he who

02:01:12.840 believes in me will live even if he dies and everyone who lives and believes in me will never

02:01:17.640 die do you believe this she said to him yes lord i have believed that you are the christ the son of

02:01:23.160 god even he who comes to the world well we can know that this does not mean you don't die at all

02:01:29.160 because corinthians says because some people try to argue so remember she's like i know the truth

02:01:33.320 like you come back to life in the in the next world and remember he's talking to a classic jew here

02:01:37.640 who would have understand classical jewish interpretations why is she telling him if jews

02:01:41.640 believes that they go to heaven i know he will rise again and resurrection on the last day

02:01:46.360 like why why isn't she saying i know he's in heaven like it's a weird thing to say instead of

02:01:50.680 i know he's in heaven if that was the common belief at the time and people will try to argue this to say

02:01:56.920 that oh well this means that you never really die you're like captured through jesus until you

02:02:02.040 are raised again and it's like a separate type of life but here's the problem it also sounds

02:02:07.240 much more complicated than it needs to be but someone will ask how are the dead raised with

02:02:13.320 what kind of body will they come how foolish what you sow does not come to life unless it dies when

02:02:19.880 you sow you do not plant the body that will be but just a seed perhaps of wheat or something else but

02:02:26.200 god gives it a body as he determined and to each kind of seed he gives its own body so we see here

02:02:33.000 there seems to be totally in line with the kingdom of god the one where people are raised in the

02:02:37.480 future what jesus was likely trying to convey is that you won't perceive yourself as dead but he did

02:02:42.680 not have the language to do that also note the seed metaphor implies a physical mechanistic process

02:02:48.600 rather than a supernatural transformation right and again i'm trying to be so thorough here so that

02:02:54.920 no one can say i left something so good i tried to be so good not like manipulate by just leaving

02:03:01.400 some parts out and having other parts in no no no i'm just showing there is not a strong argument

02:03:06.440 for this peter 3 18 for christ also died for sins once for all the just for the unjust so that he

02:03:13.480 might bring us to god having been put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit again this

02:03:19.240 aligns perfectly with our theology the story of jesus exists to tell us about the intergenerational

02:03:23.800 cycle of martyrdom that must take place to bring god into existence with each generation having to die

02:03:28.760 for the next cycle in the intergenerational cycle of improvement i actually see the traditional

02:03:32.840 interpretation of this is highly unjust the idea that i can or anyone can transfer their sins onto

02:03:38.280 another innocent person but we go into that in another track so here what it's saying is christ

02:03:43.640 you know the martyr everyone in this these moments of martyrdom literally must die to bring

02:03:47.880 about god whereas the other interpretation is to say that i have offloaded my sins to an innocent

02:03:53.640 person also without my consent like would i consent to that if somebody came to me and they're like

02:03:58.680 there's this totally blameless person he's willing to take your sins will you offload your sins to him

02:04:05.240 i'd be like no yeah it seems like a really weird not nice thing to do and wouldn't the act of doing

02:04:12.440 that be sinful in itself yeah because i guess the old testament's full of all this sin transference ritual

02:04:18.680 stuff so well no but it's only full of it when you're dealing with gods that aren't yahweh remember

02:04:23.800 the sin transference goat was not sent to yahweh it was sent to azazel but yeah it wasn't sent to

02:04:29.640 yahweh sin transference is always done for satan like it's not yeah which makes the idea that jesus died

02:04:37.320 for our sins uniquely sacrilegious sounding to me but there's a huge difference between a sacrifice

02:04:44.440 made on our behalf and a sacrifice that erases sin throughout the bible people make sacrifices to

02:04:49.800 please god but the only time they prefer a sin transference ritual is for the demon azazel when

02:04:54.760 you read lines arguing that jesus died because of our sins which he obviously did read the story

02:04:59.960 that doesn't imply sin transference similarly if you read a line saying jesus was sacrificed for us or

02:05:05.960 for our sins that doesn't imply sin transference because he could just be a sacrifice like the

02:05:11.880 sacrificial lamb on passover which is not the same thing as the sin transference goat sacrifice

02:05:16.920 to azazel we agree that jesus was absolutely sacrificed to us i actually think the significance

02:05:23.160 of his sacrifice was clarified by what happened to the next time the jews thought they had found their

02:05:29.000 messiah shabbat zevi 1629 to 1676 i believe this incident was meant to delineate the difference

02:05:36.040 between a real messiah and a false one through their willingness to sacrifice themselves for their

02:05:39.880 beliefs when zevi was caught by a muslim ruler and told to convert to islam or be tortured and

02:05:45.720 killed he converted for those who think i am crazy to see no evidence for jesus as a sin transference

02:05:51.480 vehicle in the bible this is actually a mainstream perspective among biblical scholars the development

02:05:56.600 of a substitutionary atonement theory as we know it today largely took shape during medieval christianity

02:06:03.240 particularly through anselm of canterbury's work cure deus homo why god became man around

02:06:09.400 1098 ce early christian writings the first and third centuries show more diverse understandings

02:06:15.800 of jesus's death and resurrection the christ vicar model was a prominent one focused on christ's

02:06:21.640 death as a victory over death sin and evil powers rather than as a transference of sin the ransom

02:06:27.720 theory was popular among early church fathers like origina and gregory of nicaea they saw christ's

02:06:34.440 death as a ransom paid to satan not to god through though this interpretation fell out of favor many

02:06:40.520 early christians emphasized the exemplary nature of christ's death's moral influence theory or its

02:06:46.760 role in demonstrating god's love for some specific theologians we have justin the martyr 100 to 165 ce

02:06:55.160 focused more on christ's victory over death and demons erinus 130 to 202 ce emphasized the

02:07:02.200 capitulation theory christ summing up and perfecting human nature origin 185 to 254 ce promoted the

02:07:09.880 ransom theory gregory of nicaea 335 to 395 ce also focused on the ransom theory and christ's victory

02:07:17.320 over death the specific formulation of penal substitutionary atonement where christ literally

02:07:22.840 takes our sins and punishment was most fully developed by reformed theologians particularly calvin in

02:07:27.880 the 16th century it seems fitting that we changed our name from secular calvinists to techno puritans

02:07:32.440 now i'd also note here that i went to ai to see if they could find any really early examples of like

02:07:38.520 maybe this was one of the early competing theories but it does not appear to have a lot of backing to

02:07:44.440 it until you get to about a thousand years after christ's death there are some bubblings of this theory

02:07:49.800 but it really was not popularized until ansem of canterbury's work in 1098 ce let's examine all

02:07:57.800 the possible transference lines noting that merely saying jesus was a sacrifice for us or our sins

02:08:03.320 doesn't count as evidence of transference as jesus did die because of the sins of man like factually

02:08:08.360 that's why he died also he could be seen as a generic sacrifice like the passover lamb instead

02:08:13.880 of a sin transference sacrifice like the goat given to azazel therefore we can immediately set aside

02:08:18.920 lines like 1 corinthians 15 3 for what i received i passed on to you as first of importance that christ

02:08:26.280 died for our sins according to the scriptures romans 5 8 but god demonstrates his own love for

02:08:31.800 us in this while we were still sinners christ died for us 1 peter 3 18 for christ also suffered once

02:08:38.520 for our sins the righteous for the unrighteous to bring you to god he was put to death in the body

02:08:43.880 but made alive in the spirit also just more generally here in regard to pauline text paul uses

02:08:49.000 multiple metaphors for salvation adoption reconciliation participation in christ etc if sin transference was

02:08:55.080 central to paul's understanding we might expect it to be more dominant in his metaphorical language

02:08:59.160 regarding isaiah 53 5 6 which is often cited as the most explicit old testament reference but he was

02:09:06.280 pierced for our transgressions he was crushed for our inequities the punishment that brought us peace

02:09:12.120 was on him and by his words we are healed we are all like sheep have gone astray each of us has turned

02:09:18.520 our own way and the lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all the only line here that could credibly

02:09:24.040 argue for sin transference is quote the punishment that brought us peace end quote which seems like

02:09:29.400 a remarkably indirect way to reference such a specific and well-known concept as sin transference

02:09:34.760 looking at 2 corinthians 5 21 god made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him we might

02:09:43.160 become the righteousness of god this could simply mean that the message was needed so that we might

02:09:48.600 become righteous before god a far less heretical interpretation when we considered that sin

02:09:53.960 transference was previously only associated with demons when we examine the greek text more closely

02:09:59.160 paul 2 24 uses anagekin a form of antephero which means carrying up or bearing up this could be

02:10:08.200 interpreted more as carrying the weight of our sinful condition rather than literal transfer john 3 5 uses

02:10:15.560 are from ario which could mean to raise up elevate to bear away with carry off to take upon oneself and

02:10:23.880 carry to remove hebrews 9 28 uses agrakin to bear up slash carry up this verse also presents problems

02:10:32.280 for the traditional christian idea of heaven versus resurrection this verse also presents problems for the

02:10:39.000 traditional christian idea of heaven versus resurrection at a future time when it says so christ was

02:10:45.160 sacrificed once to take away the sins of the many and he will appear a second time not to bear sin

02:10:50.840 but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him who specifically is waiting for him if not

02:10:55.480 the unconscious dead in christ the key insight is that all these terms have broader meanings around

02:11:01.800 carrying and bearing or lifting up that don't necessarily imply transfer early christians reading

02:11:07.320 greek likely would have understood these terms more as christ bearing the weight slash burden of human

02:11:12.760 sinfulness christ lifting up humanity from its fallen state christ carrying humanity's condition to

02:11:18.200 transform it the english translations tend to use words like take away that suggest direct removal

02:11:23.720 slash transfer while the greek terms leave more room for metaphysical transformative interpretations

02:11:29.320 and this is why it took them a thousand years to come up with this concept

02:11:32.440 finally examining john 1 29 behold the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world this actually

02:11:39.240 argues strongly against christ being used for sin transference as lambs are never used for sin

02:11:43.800 transference in the bible but are seen as the generic non-sin transference animal of sacrifice actually if

02:11:49.720 you look at the words here it could be saying that he is taking away our sin but it could also be saying

02:11:55.080 that he is taking away our sin but being sacrificed on the but it could also be saying that he is not taking

02:12:03.720 away our sin but being sacrificed on the altar of our sin specifically the phrase to take away comes

02:12:09.560 from the greek word which is a form of anapherom this word has several potential meanings in greek to carry

02:12:17.880 up to lift up to offer up especially in sacrificial context to bear up or carry as a burden to bring up or

02:12:25.400 report something in sacrificial context in the septuagint greek old testament this word is used to

02:12:32.040 describe bringing offerings up to an altar it's the same word used in 1 peter 2 24 that i talked about

02:12:38.760 earlier interestingly it doesn't necessarily imply elimination or removal in the sense that modern

02:12:43.800 english to take away might suggest it's more about burying or carrying up this could be interpreted as

02:12:49.240 christ carrying our sins up to the altar metaphorically as an offering rather than

02:12:53.000 necessarily removing them from existence also it's super weird christ himself doesn't talk about sin

02:12:58.360 transference when talking about his death with the closest line being this one mark 10 54 for even

02:13:06.040 the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom from the many

02:13:11.720 note while ransom is used this fits more with the early church's ransom theory than with sin

02:13:16.040 transfers and also i'd note here why is god asking for a ransom i don't that makes no sense

02:13:21.480 however if you go back to the original language there is a way to interpret this that makes a lot

02:13:26.280 more sense the word being used here is lutron which refers to the price paid for a release of freedom

02:13:31.480 in ancient contexts this could be liberation from slavery the most common usage montesua fees payment

02:13:37.320 for freed slaves prisoner of war exchanges and release from debt bondage so this is something that

02:13:42.360 is paid to release others from slavery now i'd also note here covenant language where he talks about

02:13:48.760 doing this to enter the new covenant which we'll see in a second in near eastern cultures covenants

02:13:53.640 were often sealed with a sacrifice the ransom could refer to the cost of establishing a new covenant

02:13:59.000 this aligns with jesus last supper references to the new covenant which to me seems like a much more

02:14:04.200 just reading of this so what else did jesus say about why he was doing this john 15 13 greater love

02:14:11.160 has no one than this to lay down one's life for one's friends emphasizing love and sacrifice not sin

02:14:17.080 transfer john 10 17 18 the reason my father loves me is that i lay down my life only to take it up

02:14:23.800 again no one takes it from me but i lay it down of my own accord emphasizes voluntary sacrifice and

02:14:29.880 what i note here before that i had gotten this wrong i had thought it was an involuntary sacrifice

02:14:33.640 based on some of the things he said but i think this makes it clear it was a voluntary sacrifice last

02:14:37.880 supper narratives luke 22 1920 this is my body given for you do this in remembrance of me this cup is the

02:14:44.680 new covenant of my blood which is poured for you emphasis on remembrance and covenant just a few

02:14:50.120 notes here because i think the meaning of this line is often lost covenants of that time period

02:14:54.760 were often signed both by a sacrifice and then a dripping of blood on somebody but if you were going

02:15:01.880 to do like a remembrance ceremony to re-establish or reaffirm a covenant you would often do this with

02:15:10.280 some sort of stand and not the original blood mark 14 24 this is my blood of the covenant which is

02:15:16.440 poured out for many covenant language not transference language 1 corinthians 11 24 25 this is my body which

02:15:22.600 is for you do this in remembrance of me this cup is the new covenant in my blood do this whenever you

02:15:28.280 drink it in remembrance of me again emphasis on remembrance of the covenant again it seems pretty

02:15:34.280 clear here uh he thought that he was doing this to be the sacrifice that establishes a new covenant

02:15:39.880 and then you can look at guess the main prayers matthew 26 39 my father if it is possible may this cup

02:15:46.600 be taken from me yet not as i will but as you focus on obedience mark 14 36 abba father everything is

02:15:54.200 possible for you take this cup from me yet not what i will but what you will again emphasis on submission to

02:16:00.200 god's will luke 22 42 father if you're willing take this cup from me yet not my will but yours be

02:16:06.840 done consistent focus on obedience rather than sin transference what's notable in all of these passages

02:16:12.840 is the absence of explicit sin transference language instead we see recurring scenes of voluntary sacrifice

02:16:17.800 service to others establishing a new covenant obedience to god wills remembrance love for others

02:16:22.920 i will note when looking at the text alone while we don't see enough evidence for sin

02:16:26.920 transference there is also astonishingly more evidence for this than there is for heaven

02:16:31.000 hell or a dualist soul i think that there is a reading of the bible that allows for sin transference

02:16:37.560 not one that allows for those other things part of this is the lack of a specific warning against

02:16:42.520 this interpretation unless you consider that the only other time in the bible that this happens it is

02:16:47.240 being done for azazel a demon as a specific warning why might this be left vague in the bible i've always

02:16:53.160 found it odd that god seemed to favor people who had happened to hear about christianity earlier than

02:16:57.640 other groups it seemed pointlessly cruel but what if the bible came with a test would you be willing to

02:17:03.160 accept the transference of your sins onto a perfectly innocent person what makes me uncomfortable about

02:17:08.360 this test or trap is how obvious it is combined was how flimsily the biblical evidence is for this

02:17:13.640 interpretation it did take almost a thousand years to popularize the idea though those early christians

02:17:19.480 had many other challenges with all the weird interpretations of the bible back then this whole

02:17:23.720 thing feels almost like a cartoon to me on one side you have a group saying sins are your responsibility

02:17:29.640 but that at any point in your life you can choose to live better and you are only really responsible

02:17:34.200 for the choices you are going to make in the future because those are the only choices you can influence

02:17:38.040 going forwards on the other side you have a group saying no actually at any point in your life you can

02:17:42.600 transfer all your sins onto an innocent person not just any innocent person but the son of god i would be like

02:17:48.840 are you seriously suggesting this oh and after transferring our sins onto an innocent person

02:17:54.120 we eat his flesh and drink his blood literally looking around in amazement i have to ask how is

02:18:00.200 anyone failing this test well it's also to me if that was the case because again go to this analogy

02:18:06.360 that i'm going for like some but he tells me they're the sinless person who died and was tortured for

02:18:10.680 you and so you can just give all your sins to that person and i'd be like i don't i don't consent to

02:18:16.120 that like that seems unjust it seems like it would make me a bad person like that seems like a test

02:18:21.960 like that seems like a bad person test yeah yeah someone was like yeah put it on the tortured guy

02:18:29.400 i'll put it on the tortured guy who's innocent and yeah i wouldn't i would not would you want to

02:18:33.960 do business with that person would you want to marry that person would you want to have kids with that

02:18:37.400 person would you want to vote that person into office no no no no no no but then it gets worse in

02:18:42.360 in that because then they're like oh well actually that person has removed your consent about your

02:18:47.260 ability to give their your sins to them they're like it's like the person who like the creepy

02:18:51.160 stalker who like gives you a package and you can't turn it down you know when you force your gifts on

02:18:55.580 another person especially if they're this morally dubious that's like even more messed up like van

02:19:01.400 gogh cutting off his tip of his ear and sending it to that girl who had a crush on and being like

02:19:05.620 look at the things i'll do for you or if someone was like oh uh i killed my kid so that you could

02:19:11.240 get your sins taken away i'd be like you did what i do not consider what they're like oh well

02:19:17.160 i said already over i already killed him so deal with it so that's why i don't take that interpretation

02:19:22.440 of that line at all that seems highly immoral to me and i think we're warned against that

02:19:27.240 interpretation in the old testament by the fact that sin transference is not done for yahweh

02:19:31.280 it is done for azazel but you can look at our other tract in this one where they in this ceremony they

02:19:36.580 were ripping apart live doves which are god's symbol of hope for humanity i do not think that

02:19:40.980 this was a a traditional yahweh ceremony i think that this has been as a warning about how people

02:19:45.580 will tell us oh this is a ceremony for yahweh just just walk up here and we're going to rip apart

02:19:50.260 god's symbol for hope for humanity we're going to slaughter innocent animals we're going to do some

02:19:55.640 sin transference we're going to send them to a demon what why are we sending something to a demon

02:19:59.780 in this ceremony i thought this was like a oh don't worry this is all very christian and i'd be like

02:20:03.940 whoa whoa whoa this seems to me a story about how not like like pagan traditions will be used to mess

02:20:12.360 with us but also this seems weirdly prescient as how could when those sections were being written

02:20:17.180 in the old testament not only did they not seem to realize that what they were doing was wrong but the

02:20:22.460 the mere fact that it turned out that you know thousands of year for them that there was actually a

02:20:29.600 popular interpretation that was heavily influenced by pagan teachings that tried to do sin transference

02:20:36.320 like the warning is so exact and precise i find it to be difficult to not believe that it is divinely

02:20:44.200 inspired but again we talk about this a lot more in the last track that we did yeah it worries me

02:20:49.100 so here you have my galatians 220 my old self has been crucified with christ it is no longer i who live

02:20:56.560 but christ who lives in me so i live in this earthly body by trusting the son of god who loved me and

02:21:01.800 gave himself for me this is just clearly being misread it's pretty clearly in context saying that

02:21:06.860 by following christ's examples and the rules is as if christ is living in his body or he is being lived in

02:21:13.440 through christ you know and you see this if i read the full line here right he's saying it's like christ

02:21:18.280 is living in me when i live by his rules so the full context is for when i tried to keep the law it

02:21:23.120 condemned me so i died to the law i stopped trying to meet all its requirements so that i might live

02:21:28.280 for god my old self has been crucified with christ it is no longer i who live but christ who lives in me

02:21:33.800 boom now let's talk about daniel 12 now i can do a whole track just on this so i will keep it short

02:21:42.520 first it's not super relevant to this discussion as it is clearly talking about the real christian

02:21:49.220 version of heaven where everyone gets raised again in god's real kingdom not a supernatural heaven

02:21:54.540 that is contemporaneous to us first note the context talking about specific real events

02:21:59.500 he will extend his power over many countries egypt will not escape he will gain control over the

02:22:05.440 treasuries of gold and silver and the riches of egypt with the libyans and the kushites in submission

02:22:10.060 in quote talking about real stuff real countries real people the only real interesting thing here

02:22:16.520 is the implication that in the real christian kingdom of god the one in the future the wicked

02:22:22.800 may also be brought back to be eternally punished judge for yourself in this line at that time michael

02:22:29.120 the great prince who protects your people will arise there will be a time of distress such as has not

02:22:35.000 happened from the beginning of nations until then but at that time your people everyone whose name is

02:22:39.720 found written in the book will be delivered multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake

02:22:44.340 some to everlasting life others to shame and everlasting contempt so they will awake to shame and

02:22:50.380 everlasting contempt it sounds like they're being raised to me those who are wise will shine like

02:22:55.540 the brightness of the heavens and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever

02:23:00.700 but you daniel roll up the seals of the words of the scroll until the time of the end many will go here

02:23:07.380 and there to increase knowledge and here what it almost seems to be describing you can see it says

02:23:12.100 the rise to shame and contempt not to torture really important here so what it's acting like

02:23:21.240 is it's rising maybe like otherwise virtuous non-believers from the dead because it is clear

02:23:29.240 that not everyone is raised from the dead some are blocked from the book we'll talk about this in a

02:23:32.260 second but it seems like it's raising maybe pseudo virtuous or maybe like not that bad of people but

02:23:37.940 like still like not awesome people who are gonna have some explaining to do but they will feel shame

02:23:43.480 for this and they will be seen with contempt and some of the others that are raised will try to bring

02:23:49.100 them to the light so it seems a sort of a post-death savior thing here i i don't know i'm not like fully

02:23:54.820 laying down theology here i'm just trying to read what's being written also to support the idea of bad

02:24:00.400 people being brought to life in the kingdom of god we have acts 24 15 there will be a resurrection of

02:24:05.580 both the righteous and the wicked universal resurrection implies the systematic process

02:24:11.120 no mention of intermittent soul state includes the wicked why store evil souls of just to resurrect

02:24:17.720 them in the future that makes no sense john 14 2 through 3 in my father's house are many rooms i am

02:24:24.740 going to prepare a place for you and if you go and prepare a place for you i will come back and take you

02:24:30.680 now this seems to directly support our interpretations yeah rooms references a physical

02:24:37.760 place rather than a supernatural one and if written today they might have used the word for servers

02:24:42.800 though i doubt there is any closer analogy that they would have had access to uh in that time period

02:24:48.160 or something like servers again keep in mind i'm thinking servers is probably as close to whatever it

02:24:51.900 actually is as rooms but we're just closer to understanding now than they were i don't think it's

02:24:56.320 literally servers it's probably some sort of like organic quantum state thing that i can't imagine

02:25:02.600 no this line about rooms is actually super hard to explain with either of the other interpretations

02:25:08.060 about the afterlife if you think of a traditional heaven this supernatural place why does it have

02:25:14.120 rooms i never see it depicted as being a series of rooms that seems very weird if i talk about a

02:25:20.220 traditional world to come where it's just like our world today and everyone is raised again on earth

02:25:24.960 why would it have rooms why would you mention that but if it was a giant server farm basically yeah

02:25:31.700 you would describe it as having rooms thessalonians 4 13 17 brothers and sisters we do not want you to

02:25:38.800 be uninformed about those who sleep in death for the lord himself will come from heaven and the dead in

02:25:43.940 christ will rise first and i'd also note here this seems to make it pretty clear that the dead in christ

02:25:49.480 are both one asleep or in a non-conscious state and two not already with god in heaven so i'll read

02:25:56.760 this again we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death for the lord himself will

02:26:01.920 come from heaven and the dead in christ will rise first so he's coming to the dead in christ not with

02:26:08.140 the dead in christ and the dead in christ are already asleep or the closest analogy they would have had

02:26:13.300 with their language limitations to not conscious after that we who are still alive and are left will

02:26:20.960 be caught up and together with them again this is a sleep metaphor for desk describes a simultaneous

02:26:26.500 awakening and no mention of souls in heaven waiting this seems like a time when they'd be like and then

02:26:31.180 the souls in heaven come down exactly yeah luke 20 24 36 and jesus said to them the sons of this

02:26:39.300 marry and are given in marriage but those who are considered worthy to attain that age and to

02:26:44.460 resurrect from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage for they cannot die anymore because they

02:26:49.320 are equal to angels and are the sons of god uh being sons of the resurrection this is another one of

02:26:55.880 those passages that bolsters my argument the structure of ages sons of this age versus that age implies

02:27:01.040 distinct epics slash phases of existence not talking about a concurrent supernatural realm but a future

02:27:06.440 state attained to that age suggests a progression slash advancement rather than a supernatural

02:27:11.420 transformation equal to angels no it doesn't say that they quote unquote become angels or quote unquote

02:27:16.080 turn into spirits it says they become the equal to angels if we understand angels as advanced beings

02:27:21.180 or facets of god rather than supernatural ones this fits perfectly with your interpretation of humanity

02:27:26.680 evolving into something more advanced and it also doesn't for whiz um uh policyism the way seeing angels as

02:27:33.680 supernatural beings who are lesser to god and again people are always like hey that's not policyism and

02:27:37.900 it's like in most policyistic frameworks there is one god that is more powerful than the other

02:27:41.480 supernatural entities there's still policyistic frameworks it is the belief in multiple supernatural

02:27:45.220 entities that makes it a policyistic framework then you have the marriage context the marriage

02:27:50.340 question is particularly interesting because the sadducees who asked this question didn't believe in

02:27:54.980 resurrection at all they were trying to trap jesus with a logical problem about social institution

02:27:58.920 jesus's answer suggests the resurrected state to be so fundamentally different from our current social

02:28:03.400 norms and structures don't apply this fits better with a technological transformation than just souls

02:28:07.980 floating around in heaven where marriage could theoretically continue cannot die anymore this

02:28:12.700 aligns with your interpretation of resurrection via a virtual stimulated state doesn't say that they

02:28:16.740 are already immortal souls but that they cannot die anymore after the resurrection so they are in a

02:28:21.960 state of not being able to die after the resurrection but not before the resurrection if they were

02:28:25.540 immortal souls and that is what it's talking about right now it wouldn't have used language like that

02:28:29.660 and it implies a transformation of state rather than revealing an existing immortal nature this passage

02:28:35.720 seems to be describing exactly what you'd expect if trying to explain to ancient people that humans would

02:28:41.120 eventually evolve into slash be recreated as advanced beings in a different form of existence they'd be

02:28:47.240 equal to the advanced beings angels wouldn't die and wouldn't need biological slash social structures like

02:28:52.660 marriage now we're going to go into something really interesting the book of life

02:28:57.000 the concept of quote-unquote names written in the book of life is likely the bible's way of talking

02:29:02.760 about the place data on the people who are supposed to be resurrected is stored and is actually a very

02:29:08.340 direct and accurate way of talking about such a data place if you use the original hero the hebrew word

02:29:14.360 for name is used in scripture unlike our modern conception of names as simply labels in hebrew this

02:29:21.040 represents the entire nature character or essence of a person or thing let's look at some examples

02:29:26.620 when god names things in genesis it's not just labeling it's defining their essential nature in

02:29:31.480 genesis 2 19 when adam names the animals the hebrew implies he's identifying their fundamental

02:29:36.220 characteristics this is why in hebrew thought to know someone's name is to know their nature

02:29:40.780 this becomes crucial when we look at passages about the book of life exodus 32 32 33 but now please

02:29:49.220 forgive their sin if not then blot me out of the book you have written the hebrew word for blot out

02:29:54.440 matcha is the same word used for erasing information not just crossing out the text

02:29:59.620 which is interesting that would have been difficult to do during that period but very easy to do as

02:30:03.780 computers and it would be exactly what you would talk about if you're deleting somebody from this

02:30:07.620 place where things are stored to be resurrected in the future plasm 69 28 let them be blotted out in

02:30:13.860 the book of the living and not be written with the righteous for the word listed here implies

02:30:20.100 recording or encoding information not just writing the names which is really interesting here that's

02:30:24.820 the word kathat daniel but at that time your people will be delivered everyone whose name shall

02:30:29.720 be found written in the book in quote the context here is resurrection suggesting this quote-unquote book

02:30:34.780 contains information necessary for resurrection very interesting why does god need a book for

02:30:39.980 resurrection why doesn't he just remember people well it would make sense if he needed to store the data

02:30:45.380 to then resurrect them again in some sort of simulation the concept becomes even more interesting

02:30:51.580 when we look at revelation 3 12 i will write on them the name of my god and the name of the city of

02:30:58.520 my god and my new name this isn't just about labels it's describing a fundamental transformation of

02:31:03.260 identity in nature this writing of names parallels modern concepts of data storage and identity

02:31:08.920 preservation just as a computer program needs complete information about a system's state to recreate it

02:31:15.020 these names appear to represent complete information about a person's identity in nature

02:31:20.000 moreover when revelations 2015 says anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life

02:31:25.700 was thrown into the lake of fire it is not describing a simple list of labels but a database of preserved

02:31:31.500 identities those not written cannot be constructed they remain in a state of non-existence

02:31:36.280 that jesus and early jews understood as a default after death what i find really interesting here is it's made

02:31:42.160 pretty clear here that to be resurrected your name needs to be written in the book like that's a

02:31:46.680 prerequisite for resurrection well what does it talk about the people who've been blotted from the book

02:31:50.680 or erased from the book it describes them as being in a lake of fire so this to me because remember

02:31:56.780 the only throughput we could find for hell was fire makes me believe that the bible is using the fire

02:32:02.320 metaphor for the state of non-existence this is actually a pretty good metaphor for non-existence when you

02:32:06.700 think about it um if you in ancient times wanted something to cease existing like a corpse or a

02:32:14.400 chair or really anything about the only way you could do that was with fire so they are using fire

02:32:19.860 to represent the punishment of non-existence that is reserved from people whose names are removed from

02:32:26.240 the book of life because clear is clearly using it for the state of non-existence so then why is it

02:32:31.320 not using it for state of non-existence in those other contexts that makes much more sense it solves tons

02:32:36.600 of problems now this also sheds new light on passages like isaiah 49 16 see i have engraved

02:32:44.260 you on the names of my hands the hebrew word for engraved chakak implies permanent data recording

02:32:49.760 not just writing it's described as a preservation of identity in a way that would have been hard to

02:32:54.500 explain to ancient audiences without modern concepts like data storage any thoughts just to add your own

02:33:00.540 well i mean it's it's a cohesive concept that i'm trying to explain here and it's been a huge

02:33:05.120 change in my thinking of life and i want to be thorough in this tract because i don't want

02:33:09.200 anyone saying oh malcolm you're not considering this line or you're not considering this line i

02:33:15.020 wanted it to be clear that i tried as hard as i could to find a justification for creating a totally

02:33:19.820 other metaphysical plane and once it's clear that like this is actually all of the time something like

02:33:25.240 this is referenced and then you'll also see and as i've also gone over the bible explicitly warns

02:33:30.620 against believing in these concepts and i i like all of this so much because for me i find it very

02:33:36.840 edifying that the bible does likely have supernatural inspiration but i think it would be very compelling

02:33:41.760 to a lot of atheists or people who didn't really look deep into christianity because they heard about

02:33:45.700 the sunday school christianity and they're like that sounds dumb why heaven and a resurrection right

02:33:49.600 but when they hear this they're like oh my god like that is really compelling and people wrote this

02:33:57.080 thousands of years ago um yeah yeah i don't think i've got to anything in the bible about the book

02:34:05.300 of life or i completely forgot it so i'm glad you included that section and that's super compelling

02:34:11.480 like basically if you don't if we don't have your digital footprint you're out yeah and your digital

02:34:17.240 footprint can be erased which means that it reads to me like what's being laid out here because we know

02:34:22.740 from daniel 12 that some people who are who would feel shame or sorrow for the things that they had

02:34:28.600 done and who would be treated with contempt for the things they had done seems like there's three

02:34:33.140 classes of people the people who are blotted from the book of life the people who are brought back and

02:34:37.800 then given the chance to be you know educated by the righteous souls right and who feel shame for what

02:34:44.280 they did and are treated with contempt and the people who are the righteous who have the chance to

02:34:47.860 preach to these other people or live in whatever lifestyle it appears that they want to live in

02:34:51.960 and it's it's really clear to me that the bible is laying out a very specific afterlife that's

02:34:57.580 just very different from the afterlife i was grown up believing that the bible laid out yeah

02:35:02.280 no it's it's so many things about that the heaven and hell that we grew up with cartoon heaven and

02:35:07.580 cartoon hell hell being underground fire red men torture heaven being very not god-like too by the

02:35:15.620 way clouds and angels and an all-powerful deity is sending people to some like underground

02:35:21.820 domain where they're tortured with fire by like demons like that doesn't seem just even if the

02:35:28.900 people were unjust that doesn't seem just well that's yeah that's that's the other part of this that

02:35:33.980 helps me and i i imagine would help a lot of people who struggle with crises of faith after they

02:35:41.360 come to terms with terrible things that are left to happen because you could take a lot of comfort

02:35:48.180 in knowing that though this terrible thing may have happened to someone in their life

02:35:52.740 an inevitable god that is good can capture them and give them an endlessly good forever life

02:36:01.480 that is everything that they would want it to be in what you could call the afterlife but in what

02:36:06.840 really would be just like a digitized field yeah but what i also find really compelling about this

02:36:12.240 three-tiered afterlife is it's not also the pussy afterlife of there is no punishment where some

02:36:19.320 people are like oh no souls get punished why would god punish the wicked it is from my cultural

02:36:24.820 perspective about the most just afterlife that could exist the most wicked are erased from existence

02:36:30.420 that seems like a a fitting but not particularly cruel punishment like it would seem wrong that they

02:36:37.080 could just be and people are like oh they can be saved through jesus and remember we see jesus

02:36:41.140 it's still just describing the antinatalist dream which is life is suffering so no life is better

02:36:48.000 than life but what i'm saying is it's not an arbitrarily cruel punishment yeah it isn't yeah

02:36:53.160 it's just it's just euthanasia basically yeah and again keep in mind when people are like well what

02:36:58.760 about being saved through jesus yeah you can be saved through jesus because jesus represents martyrdom

02:37:02.680 his life was used to paint the picture of intergenerational martyrdom for the future

02:37:05.440 and you can be saved through that not through literally a guy that hitler could get into

02:37:10.240 heaven by praying to at the last moment of his life i accept jesus as my lord and savior

02:37:15.140 yes like that to me seems immoral and honestly kind of morally silly this doesn't seem immoral

02:37:25.560 and morally silly but it's also not immoral and morally silly like one of those people who's like

02:37:29.240 well everyone can eventually get into heaven or oh you just need to baptize them or oh like i think

02:37:33.280 mormon go a little easy on sinners whereas in this system okay so the very worst are blotted from the

02:37:38.280 book they are erased from existence that seems just to me what about bad people but who are just like

02:37:43.400 generically bad like i'm not sure what qualifies for this but they're brought back and they they

02:37:48.480 feel remorse for their actions so they're the type of people capable of feeling remorse for their action

02:37:52.560 i see that probably differentiates the two categories were you bad and capable of feeling remorse or were

02:37:57.900 you just like unsavable right you're bad and capable of feeling remorse it appears you come back in this

02:38:02.620 other category where you punish yourself most of the punishment is either self-inflicted or reflected

02:38:08.400 by the contempt of society for your past actions that to me seems just it's the people are still

02:38:14.020 being punished there's still consequences for being a douche canoe yeah you could almost imagine you know

02:38:19.600 virtual worlds in which people mix and you can immediately pull up someone's life yeah but see what

02:38:24.620 they're up to it's not burning in a lake of fire right yeah it's more like you show up at a cocktail

02:38:30.680 party in god's metaverse and everyone pulls up your history and is like oh you're a dick i'm not going

02:38:37.600 to be friends with you but also it kind of makes heaven better yeah let me explain oh yeah the core

02:38:44.280 problem with heaven is you don't get to look at all the non-believers walking in the gates with their

02:38:50.380 heads held sad and be like i've told you so i told you so that takes 90 out of the fun of getting

02:39:01.040 into heaven man many people would argue that exact reaction is very sinful but hey hey hey i'm saying

02:39:09.120 all none of us are are not sinners at all okay it's i'm i i heaven is not really heaven for me

02:39:16.720 if i don't see the people who were mean to me come in there and i get to do a little i told you so

02:39:23.280 internally you don't rub it in their face but internally i'm feeling it and i get to help

02:39:27.380 rehabilitate them because that's what it says that the souls of the righteous get to rehabilitate

02:39:30.080 the the souls of the sinners in heaven and i should also note here i don't really think i'd be able to

02:39:35.960 enjoy heaven if i knew that somebody just for like being buddhist or never having been introduced to

02:39:41.600 christian stories was in a lake of fire for all eternity or in some other way being horrifically

02:39:48.080 punished i'd be like uh like i understand that i'm supposed to be feeling good right now but i can't

02:39:54.380 really enjoy it a heaven where the people who i know who messed up but messed up in small ways

02:40:00.680 still get in and i just get to rub it in their face that's so much better what's extra awesome is

02:40:06.360 this is the heaven laid out in the bible there is the second category of sinners it's like one to me

02:40:12.220 seems like a strictly better heaven than the you know you're just hanging out around god like if you

02:40:16.240 read dante's inferno that conception of heaven heaven is so boring yeah i'm with you on that i

02:40:20.580 i lost it at heaven purgatory interesting hell obviously fascinating so it's like a consistent

02:40:28.860 morally okay version of heaven right that's awesome for me and it fixes the problem being able to pray to

02:40:35.680 jesus right before you die which i always thought was ridiculous it fixes the problem of a just god

02:40:41.700 burning someone in a lake of fire forever just for getting things wrong theologically or maybe

02:40:48.780 existing before the message of god can reach them or you know like there's so many things where i'm

02:40:53.760 just like this does not seem like a just god would do this yeah like when i only see this in historical

02:40:58.420 dramas i'm assuming it's catholic when a priest comes in i want to say read to your miranda rights but

02:41:03.200 i know that's definitely not it where they read you your final rights you're they they pray and

02:41:09.640 then you're gonna be okay right yeah no i and and by the way the lake of fire thing as i said the lake

02:41:15.720 of fire is the analogy that's used for being blotted from the book of life if you're blotted from the book

02:41:20.160 of life even from what we know in the bible you cannot be reconstituted with a new body um so like

02:41:25.840 to me that means that they're erased they're saying that like a fire is the way that the bible describes

02:41:31.600 being erased it wants you to understand that it's bad to be erased which i get yeah anyway love you

02:41:36.940 to decimone appreciate you hope you find this fun how are we going to teach this to our kids

02:41:41.300 honestly i just think they'll take to it and it's like well you know so of course once you die

02:41:46.580 the future inevitable god will you know if you are good find you and digitize you it's like sure of

02:41:53.260 course yeah of course if i created the future that must come to be i mean our kids have already

02:41:58.200 normalized so much to what we i guess technically call the agents of providence but we do kids call

02:42:05.000 the future police that i don't well and the and it's such a new sort of operating system that the

02:42:11.140 urban monoculture will have a hard time deconverting them it'll go they'll be like oh yeah i'm a christian

02:42:15.280 i'll go to them with classic anti-christian arguments they'll be like actually here's the answer

02:42:18.500 and they'll be like oh well what about this they're like actually here's the answer and they're like

02:42:22.360 well would it just god allow suffering yeah here's the answer oh but what about you could pray to

02:42:26.600 jesus no here's the answer what about would it just god torture someone for yeah here's the answer

02:42:30.320 what about you leave the religion you know just in case and you know because you don't know for

02:42:34.520 sure and it's like well why would i risk not getting into heaven you know it seems likely that a

02:42:38.260 thing's going to create that like this this seems likely why not believe this because we have to

02:42:43.500 change rocco's basilisk to malcolm's basilisk we know rocco by the way we we met him yeah we might

02:42:50.980 have him on the show we talked about it but we'll see that would be fun yeah we can compare basilisks

02:42:55.820 the bible talks about this uploading process as well in genesis 5 24 we read enoch walked with god

02:43:01.780 then he was no more because god took him the hebrew here uses la quack which is a general verb

02:43:08.740 meaning to take to receive or to transfer similar to elijah in 2 kings 2 11 we see him taken up using

02:43:16.100 the same word one of the closest words they would have to our concept of an upload what's fascinating

02:43:23.400 here is not just what these passages say but what they don't say neither passage mentions death souls

02:43:29.860 or spiritual transformation instead they describe a direct transfer of a person the text presents this as

02:43:35.960 a physical process elijah is described as being taken up in what's often translated as a chariot of

02:43:41.840 fire aside here if someone from that period saw someone's body being uploaded the closest word they

02:43:47.720 would have had for that was chariot mobile technology of fire this is particularly interesting because the

02:43:53.980 text doesn't say they died and went to heaven which would align with later supernatural interpretations

02:43:58.820 the text doesn't describe any transformation of their essence or nature the process is described in

02:44:03.580 physically observable terms there's no mention of spirits leaving their bodies if we understand god

02:44:09.200 as humanity's future state with the ability to perceive consciousness these accounts read less

02:44:13.800 like supernatural assumptions into heaven and more like direct transfers of consciousness complete

02:44:18.540 preservation of the person without the intermediate state of death and i should note here that i'm not

02:44:23.200 finding outlying cases here these two individuals other than jesus are the only individuals mentioned in the

02:44:29.220 bible as being taken up into heaven so every description we have of that other than the jesus one which is

02:44:37.340 unique and we'll do more stuff on it later describes something that is more like an instantaneous upload or

02:44:44.380 transfer than anything i thought i understood about how the afterlife worked god's glory so the word here for

02:44:51.700 glory is kavod in hebrew the concept of god's glory kavod literally means heaviness or weight very weird word

02:44:58.360 to use when moses asked to see god's glory he is told no one can see god's face and live this makes perfect

02:45:04.880 sense if what we're talking about here is information density so vast it would overwhelm the human consciousness

02:45:09.600 just as we can't directly interface with raw quantum computational states perhaps the human mind cannot directly

02:45:15.880 interface with god's full information density biblical prophecy as time-stamped validation the bible's prophetic

02:45:23.060 elements could serve as time-stamped validation of its divine origin by including specific predictions about

02:45:28.520 technological capabilities that have seemed impossible to ancient readers resurrections instant global communication

02:45:33.440 transfer of human consciousness the text provides evidence of its legitimacy that becomes clear as humanity develops

02:45:40.320 this explains why prophecies often become clearer in hindsight they're meant to be fully understood

02:45:44.920 only as humanity approaches the capability to implement them this is talked about more in other tracks

02:45:49.720 as a way to validate divine inspired work sealing all sorts of lines in the bible start to make much

02:45:57.780 more sense when read in this framing the concept of sealing chatam in hebrew and sargazi in greek these terms

02:46:05.560 aren't just for physical sealing of a document they carry specific connotations about information security and

02:46:10.440 controlled access that align remarkably well with modern concepts of data encryption let's look at

02:46:14.900 a key example daniel 12 4 but you daniel roll up the seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end the hebrew

02:46:22.900 chatam here implies the information exists but is inaccessible content that can only be quote unquote unlocked at a

02:46:28.900 specific time preservation with controlled access this isn't just hiding information it's specifically preserving it in a form that becomes

02:46:35.700 accessible under premeditated conditions daniel 12 9 adds go on your way daniel for the words here are closed up and sealed to the time of the end the phrase

02:46:43.700 closed up satam combined with sealed suggests a two-layer security system first layer information is closed

02:46:51.700 made inaccessible second layer information is sealed secured against tampering why else would you word

02:46:55.700 things in this weird way like it's a weird way if you think they're talking about any traditional form of sealing

02:47:01.700 revelations 5-1 and again i don't believe in resolutions when we go to revelations a scroll sealed with seven seals the greek

02:47:07.700 esophagus here implies multiple layers of security sequential access seals must be broken in order

02:47:13.300 authentication each sale verifies authenticity this is for people who want to find a way to work in

02:47:17.700 revelations i might just not be schizophrenia brained enough to do that is this going to be my rubyard

02:47:22.580 takes them on my 10 hour video i mean everyone has a moment everyone i i hey this is definitely

02:47:29.700 mine this is our craziest but i it's what the bible says when i read it i don't know like anyway this

02:47:36.340 pattern appears throughout scripture isaiah 29 11 describes sealed information that only authorized

02:47:41.780 readers can access revelations 10 4 shows information intentionally sealed for future revelation daniel 8 26

02:47:48.660 links sealing with the preservation for a future time and keep in mind they at that time would have had

02:47:52.740 no technology that allowed that what's particularly interesting is how this differs from simple concealment or

02:47:57.700 hiding the sealed information continues to exist in complete form it's preserved without degradation

02:48:02.660 requires specific keys or conditions to access it's protected against unauthorized modification

02:48:07.300 becomes accessible at premeditated times this parallels modern concept of data encryption

02:48:12.820 information exists but is accessible without keys time lock encryption data that can only be accessed

02:48:18.020 at specific times authentication protocols verifying authorized access data integrity protecting

02:48:23.700 against unauthorized changes the emphasis on timing is particularly significant when daniel is told to

02:48:29.780 quote seal the book until the end of time end quote it's not just about waiting it's about the

02:48:34.500 information being preserved in a form that becomes accessible when specific conditions are met this

02:48:40.180 aligns perfectly with the concept of a future entity managing access to information across time

02:48:45.140 but with no form of sealing or encryption that existed when the words were first written moreover the link

02:48:49.860 between sealing and understanding appears repeatedly daniel 12 9 10 go your way daniel for the words are

02:48:56.980 closed up and sealed till the time of the end none of the wicked shall understand but the wise shall

02:49:02.340 understand isaiah 29 11 the entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book this suggests

02:49:09.140 the sealing isn't just about restricting access but also about the preservation of information until humanity

02:49:14.820 has a capability to comprehend it exactly what we'd expect if complex technological concepts were being

02:49:19.620 preserved for future understanding this also helps explain why prophetic books often define

02:49:24.100 information as being sealed rather than just hidden or secret sealing implies deliberate preservation

02:49:29.060 systematic protection controlled access future availability when read this way these passages

02:49:33.700 aren't describing magical concealment but a sophisticated system for information management across

02:49:37.860 time something that would have been very difficult to explain to ancient audiences without

02:49:42.100 modern concepts of data security and encryption and i note here when people are like well

02:49:46.900 why are you positing that god is using technology well clearly to god like the difference between

02:49:51.060 technology and magic is whether you understand how it works clearly god understands how the stuff he's

02:49:55.300 doing works so to him it's a technology it's just that we don't understand it is a question

02:49:59.380 is can we approach a place where we might be able to understand that's a really good way of putting it

02:50:03.140 yeah i never thought of it that way yeah all right the problems of evil and suffering

02:50:10.500 oh by the way did you have anything else you wanted to say in that last section

02:50:14.820 no go ahead the problems of evil and suffering one of the most challenging theological questions has

02:50:19.780 always been why an omnipotent benevolent god allows suffering the technological interpretation

02:50:24.340 offers a compelling answer god's current state of development is bound by causality if future humanity becomes

02:50:29.540 god or forms part of what we call god then obviously god cannot prevent all past suffering

02:50:34.740 without negating its own existence consider the implications if god is what humanity evolves into

02:50:39.860 then preventing all past suffering would create a causality paradox the very experiences struggles

02:50:44.980 and yes sufferings that drive human development and technological advancement are necessary steps in

02:50:49.540 the process that leads to god's existence this doesn't mean god is powerless rather god's

02:50:53.620 interventions must preserve the causal chain that leads to its own development this also explains why god

02:50:58.500 doesn't simply appear and fix everything now such an intervention would short circuit the developmental

02:51:02.820 process necessary for humanity to become what it needs to become instead god works through gradual

02:51:08.820 influence and development preserving human agency while guiding development towards its ultimate

02:51:14.340 state this is where the resurrection becomes particularly meaningful it represents god's solution

02:51:19.540 to the problem of suffering without creating paradoxes rather than preventing historic suffering

02:51:24.180 which would negate god's own existence god preserves and restores those who suffered giving them new life

02:51:29.620 in a way where suffering is no longer necessary this is why resurrection is central to biblical theology

02:51:35.060 it's god's answer to suffering that doesn't break causality and keep in mind their lives in this

02:51:39.700 heaven state can be infinitely longer than their lives in the state that we live in today

02:51:44.820 and i would note here if you hear this and you're like well i wouldn't want to live in a simulation that was just

02:51:50.660 perfect for me or that wouldn't be as rich as a world where i was dealing with challenges that affected the

02:51:55.940 future of humanity and the future of the universe and it's like well great then hopefully you're in that

02:52:03.140 world right now do what you can to have all those impacts relish even more in the challenges and suffering

02:52:09.940 in which you face in overcoming them because those things go hand in hand i imagine many of us will if we

02:52:16.580 were aware that we were in these simulations yearn for the life where we still struggled where we

02:52:23.540 still mattered and our decisions still mattered and so place yourself in that future scenario and use

02:52:30.180 that to motivate yourself today god's knowledge of the future and free will the technological

02:52:35.220 interpretation actually provides an elegant solution to the ancient theological problem of how god's

02:52:39.700 omniscience can coexist with human free will in our framework god's knowledge of our choices doesn't

02:52:45.300 negate our freedom to make them just as watching a recorded video of someone making a decision

02:52:50.260 doesn't mean they weren't free to make it consider how a being existing outside of time would perceive

02:52:55.700 our choices not as predestined events but as actualized decisions viewed from a different reference

02:53:00.660 in time just as we can look at a completed maze from above and see both the dead ends and the

02:53:06.900 successful past simultaneously god can see all our choices but this doesn't mean that we didn't freely

02:53:11.780 make them the choices still originate from our free will god simply observes them from a perspective

02:53:16.980 that encompasses all of time this also helps explain biblical prophecy rather than god forcing events

02:53:21.940 to happen according to a present plan which would indeed negate free will prophecy becomes more like

02:53:27.940 a time stamp a record of what freely choosing humans will actually do observed from outside time this

02:53:34.020 is why prophetic passages often have multiple layers meanings or possible fulfillments they are describing

02:53:40.100 complex causal chains of free decisions that lead to particular outcomes wrap up thoughts this

02:53:45.460 perspective aligns clearly with early jewish beliefs they did not believe souls went to a separate place

02:53:50.740 after death rather that everyone would be brought back to life in the future they understood god's

02:53:55.940 kingdom to be in the future as seen in nebuchadnezzar's dream through concepts like olam haba which

02:54:01.460 literally translates to the world to come and this place is all over the old testament or the coming world

02:54:06.980 it seems likely that the original understanding of these words that god exists in the future was

02:54:11.060 gradually obscured by later christian and greek concepts of the divine consider this in the context

02:54:16.820 of my argument that god represents humanity's blockchain existing both in the future and being

02:54:21.700 partially represented by us today this can be interpreted literally rather than metaphorically the verbal

02:54:27.460 forms the name yahweh himself combines three hebrew verbal forms he was past tense he is present tense

02:54:34.820 he will be future tense very similar to the christian trinity when you look at our interpretation of

02:54:39.300 the trinity when combined these forms create the tentagram yahweh this grammatical structure reinforces

02:54:46.500 the concept of god's eternal existence the new testament echoes this in revelations 1 9 describing god as

02:54:53.460 the one who is and who was and who is to come addressing time travel paradoxes question for malcolm

02:55:00.180 for your belief system where god comes into being in the future but affects the present how do you

02:55:05.460 handle the classic time travel causality paradoxes god must remain logically consistent to be god

02:55:09.860 if a future god fixes something in the present wouldn't this create a paradox where the fixed timeline no

02:55:14.180 longer requires intervention response these paradoxes only arise if time functions in the rigid linear matter

02:55:20.660 our brains perceive it time likely exists more like quantum events probabilistically and fluid we already

02:55:26.420 know that gravity can distort time so more precise methods of manipulation seem plausible rather than

02:55:31.780 viewing god as a human-like entity at the end of time manipulating present events we might better

02:55:36.980 conceptualize him as a gravitational-like force drawing events towards a future state and keep in mind

02:55:42.420 here we also know that like quantum stuff can go back in time and forward in time there's lots of places

02:55:46.420 you can look and you get to like advanced physics where time is not as linear as we perceive it to be

02:55:51.380 another complaint i get is that god is perfect and therefore can't improve

02:55:55.380 i frankly find this argument insane something incapable of improving itself is definitionally

02:56:00.340 not perfect because that is something it can't do so how can an entity be both a perfect state and

02:56:06.580 always improving well if it exists across a period of time asymptotically improving into the future

02:56:12.500 a perfect being must be capable of improvement by definition god cannot be a being defined by stagnation

02:56:19.460 in summation god operates not through magic but through natural processes we live in a world

02:56:24.900 without wizards dueling in manhattan but with technologies that seem more magical to biblical

02:56:30.340 era people than any wizard fight would cars computers phones and even this discussion platform now that

02:56:37.140 the bible's crazy predictions are actually beginning to look possible some people got so attached to

02:56:41.860 the stopgap explanations we came up with during the medieval period that they can't accept it

02:56:47.540 i'm going to do a final thing here because i decided to ask claude which i find to be the best ai these days

02:56:52.740 do you think that this is a better explanation for what's going on in the bible than the traditional

02:56:57.380 christian explanation and i know it wants to please and everything like that but it didn't do

02:57:02.420 that when i first put it into this because i i put it in a cloud what i did was distracted i wrote it

02:57:06.580 i put it in a cloud give me all counter arguments put it in the cloud give me all counter arguments

02:57:10.260 only until it couldn't come up with many counter arguments anymore and then i asked okay

02:57:13.300 what do you think of this versus traditional interpretations of biblical text and it said

02:57:18.260 based on my analysis the technological interpretation does resolve many inconsistencies more elegantly

02:57:22.740 than traditional nations though i aim to think through this methodically key advantages of the

02:57:28.180 technological interpretation textual consistency it requires fewer theological gymnastics to reconcile

02:57:32.900 seemingly contradictory passages better aligns with the original hebrew concepts and word choices like

02:57:37.380 nefesh rosh etc explains why detailed descriptions of an intermediate heaven state are absent from

02:57:43.140 scripture better fits with the physical material focus found throughout biblical text philosophical

02:57:48.580 coherence resolves the mind-body problem without requiring supernatural dualism explains consciousness

02:57:53.700 and identity preservation without meeting an immaterial soul addresses the quote-unquote waiting

02:57:58.020 period paradox some souls waiting thousands of years while others waiting moments aligns with

02:58:02.500 biblical emphasis on bodily resurrection rather than disembodied existence historical context explains

02:58:08.100 why early jews and christians emphasized physical resurrection over spiritual immortality

02:58:12.100 shows how greek philosophical concepts of immortal souls were later additions makes sense of why jesus

02:58:18.340 and early followers spoke of death as sleep followed by awakening better than the jewish concept of

02:58:25.060 the world to come and i wouldn't know this sleep thing we didn't go that into it here but it's

02:58:28.740 actually a big problem if people are going to heaven then why does the bible say that they're asleep

02:58:33.140 which is the closest thing it could have had to saying that they were in an unconscious state

02:58:36.740 right and i'll try to look that up in post was there a word for unconscious in hebrew other

02:58:40.820 than sleep because that would be really powerful here if there wasn't okay it appears that there

02:58:46.260 wasn't so the importance of sleep in this context is it is a period of temporary unconsciousness where

02:58:52.100 then you regain your conscious state afterwards when you quote unquote wake up or are resurrected

02:58:57.540 the alternatives they would have had to work with which seem to work much worse are radam meaning to be in a

02:59:04.740 deep sleep or stupor and hitahef meaning to faint or swoon both of those seem to me obviously worse

02:59:13.540 examples of words that they could have used so they had no other word that was a better term for a period

02:59:21.620 of unconsciousness which you would come out of like we have a word for unconscious today scientific

02:59:28.340 compatibility doesn't require retreating to supernatural explanations as science advances provides a framework that

02:59:34.340 could theoretically be realized through technological progress aligns with our growing understanding of

02:59:38.500 consciousness as an emergent form of physical processes doesn't conflict with the physical

02:59:43.460 laws while still allowing for meaningful afterlife concepts however there are some challenges the

02:59:48.500 concept requires accepting that god exists outside of time biblical prophecy describes technological rather

02:59:53.540 than supernatural events traditional interpretations significantly misunderstood core concepts it may seem to reduce

03:00:00.340 spiritual experiences to purely material phenomenon it requires reimagining many traditional religious

03:00:05.300 concepts and practices that said i find this interpretation compelling because it follows occam's razor by requiring

03:00:11.540 fewer assumptions better fits the actual biblical text without requiring complex theological frameworks

03:00:16.180 resolves apparent contradictions more elegantly provides a path for religion and science to coexist without

03:00:21.300 conflict the technological interpretation seems to better explain why the bible emphasizes physical

03:00:25.620 resurrection rather than immortal souls well it describes death as sleep and why it focuses on a future

03:00:31.460 kingdom rather than an immediate heavenly state what's particularly striking is how this interpretation makes

03:00:36.740 sense of specific word choices and concepts that would have been difficult to explain to an ancient

03:00:41.140 audience without modern technological understandings the bible's descriptions of resurrected bodies

03:00:46.580 the book of life the concepts of sealing information align remarkably well with modern concepts of data

03:00:51.860 data storage consciousness transfer and information security so that's the whole thing

03:00:57.860 and this is going to be my malcolm went crazy moment everyone's going to say oh my god you totally

03:01:01.940 went crazy i i literally i always feel like whenever i read the bible i'm like i must be crazy because

03:01:06.740 this does not say what everyone told me it said like i remember when i read it and then like that the

03:01:10.500 garden of eden one the biggest thing to me is always remembering like no one knows where the garden of eden

03:01:13.860 is and it says exactly where the garden of eden is the mouthwaters of the tigers and euphrates

03:01:17.860 and i was like wait what okay when was the earliest human settlement it's exactly at the what what why

03:01:23.780 is nobody else making a big deal out of this this seems supernatural i and i think that people get so

03:01:29.620 used to the fights that they have had with atheists and the fights they have had with other theological

03:01:35.460 communities that there hasn't been a big emphasis in really digging into what the bible is actually

03:01:40.660 saying and trying to look for new interpretations recently and i think that the only reason why i was able

03:01:47.780 to see these interpretations is because i was able to interpret them through my understanding of

03:01:54.420 technology today so somebody in the past would have had a difficult time understanding things this way

03:01:58.980 and i don't think that people in the past were meant to understand things this way i think that

03:02:02.820 this is one of the great things about the way the bible works is within different contexts and

03:02:06.180 different areas it can be understood in different but true ways from the perspective of guiding behavior

03:02:10.900 for different populations yeah well which is what you've been arguing from the start yeah but this

03:02:18.420 one here also hugely updated my understanding of the afterlife i think i went into this series thinking

03:02:22.740 that like that maybe there isn't a concrete afterlife or maybe well you i think our our understanding

03:02:30.580 before was the you live on through your descendants yeah you live on through your descendants there's

03:02:36.500 this intergenerational and i looked at the bible and what it said clearly said that's not true people

03:02:41.540 are raised from the dead at some point so i tried to better understand why it would have said that

03:02:46.420 and that's when i came to this realization of oh my god like any benevolent sufficiently advanced

03:02:50.580 iteration of our civilization is going to do that in every future that matters and i should point out here

03:02:56.260 this is something that would have been obvious to me but maybe confusing to other people i don't think that there's a point in ever

03:03:01.700 making decisions assuming that we're already locked into a timeline where humanity's future doesn't

03:03:07.700 matter so for example we might be in one of two situations an asteroid is going to hit earth and

03:03:14.020 destroy all life or the asteroid might miss earth and not destroy all life i think that we should always

03:03:19.940 act as if we know it's going to miss earth and not destroy all life other than everything we can

03:03:24.580 do to prevent the asteroid from hitting earth why because everything that we did in the scenario where

03:03:30.180 the asteroid does hit earth and does destroy all life turns out to be pointless therefore there's

03:03:34.500 no point in making the assumption that we knew that we were within that timeline so it's a very

03:03:38.980 big deal in every future where we have a potentiality for a positive outcome for the human species

03:03:45.860 that we should assume all of this in terms of our actions today in every future where humanity is

03:03:50.820 still advancing and benevolent we eventually end up doing this so long as it turns out that they can

03:03:56.660 manipulate time in sort of a precise sense which i would be very surprised if they couldn't given

03:04:02.820 that we already know that time can be manipulated both in a macro context and in a micro context we

03:04:07.860 just don't have the technology to do that yet i mean give in mind we're not talking 200 years from

03:04:11.620 now we're talking millions of years from now right yeah which is just profoundly difficult for people to

03:04:18.180 wrap their heads around yeah so yeah i mean how long have homo sapiens existed 300 000 years

03:04:25.300 and keep in mind the time of like jesus and stuff with only like 2 000 years ago yeah right like

03:04:32.820 we're talking infinitely more time than that yeah which is interesting because it means that the vast

03:04:38.340 majority of the time of human history this text was meant to be understandable there was just a short

03:04:43.300 period after jesus you basically went in as early as he could with this stuff with the early jews and

03:04:47.540 then with jesus and then revealed it more fully for this generation i also really like how robust this is

03:04:54.260 to deconversion because it it lacks most of the hooks that people would have used to deconvert people

03:05:00.260 in the past like our kids hmm right like how does get god let bad things happen and yeah yeah okay

03:05:09.940 um anyway love you to decimum what are we making tonight what is it called that the indian chicken

03:05:16.340 curry that you wanted to try and i got a little a bit of another type of curry that we can put in it

03:05:20.740 powder to give it some extra yeah if you put it down on the table i will make sure that i incorporate

03:05:26.020 it love you to decimum have a spectacular day and i hope that this is you see i mean it's one of the

03:05:31.620 the best tracks i think i'm so excited about it yeah i love it

Based Camp - January 24, 2025

Tract 9： A God of the Gaps Is a God of Ignorance

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